July 20, 2025 • 52 mins
Kelly Smith joined me for a chat and, true to form, we went completely off-script... and I wouldn’t have it any other way. What kicked off as a catch-up turned into a full-blown riff on hormones, perimenopause, identity, fear, self-acceptance, and the beautiful mess of evolving in your 40s. We got stuck into how hard it is to know when you're not feeling like yourself anymore, the weird relief of finally getting answers, and why talking openly (and loudly) about women’s health matters more than ever. We also dug into the gutsy side of change - leaving jobs, chasing passion, and dealing with the good old 'who do I think I am?' voice in our heads. It’s raw, funny, warm, and full of those moments where you go, 'Yep, same.' No bullsh*t, just the real stuff.
SPONSORED BY TESTART FAMILY LAWYERS
Website: testartfamilylawyers.com.au
TIFFANEE COOK
Linktree: linktr.ee/rollwiththepunches/
Website: tiffcook.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tiffaneecook/
Facebook: facebook.com/rollwiththepunchespodcast/
Instagram: instagram.com/rollwiththepunches_podcast/
Instagram: instagram.com/tiffaneeandco
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is Roll with the Punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family
Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au Kel Smith. Welcome to
(00:54):
Roll with the Punches.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
How exciting? How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm really good? How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You're the latest big thing in podcasting. I believe.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Look apparently so look I have. As Craig said, I
was basically just getting some free coaching that he turned
into a podcast. And I thought, you know what, I'm
going to be really cheeky and try the same with you.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And here we are, I said to Craig. I had
coffee with Craigs morning, I said, Kels come for a downgrade.
She's come for a downgrade. She's gone to the absolute
pinnacle of podcasts, and now she's coming to slum it
with me. I'm excited to talk to you, though, because
we have good chats. So what could possibly go wrong?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh? Look, nothing, everything, all of it. Who knows, who knows,
Let's just dive in. I think I said to you,
let's just talk about girly things like lifting weights and
menopause and hormones.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yes, I am on such a tangent, you know, because
I'm carrying on. But I'm on such a tangent about
that at the moment. But it's just so. It's funny
when you start talking about something, isn't it, and then
everyone everyone goes, oh, thank god, yes right. So it's
such a for me. It's so topical.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I think also too, like it's been made a little
bit more mainstream. I'm not sure why or how, but
I'm really glad that it has, like any kind of
women's topic. I remember a few weeks ago on the
Project actually, which has sadly been taken off air, but
there was a very frank conversation about women's health, hormones, periods,
(02:36):
and the guy that was sitting there, you know, he
could see it was squirming, and they said, look, I'm
really sorry that you know, you're having to listen to this,
and he said, no, don't. Don't you dare apologize because
I should be listening to this, and other men should
be listening to this, and we should be talking about this.
So for whatever reason, I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Do you know what I loved? I recently did a
solo episode just to talking about all right, I'm going
to share this whole hormonal perimenopause chaos that I'm going
through and just had a riff on it, right, And
one of my one of my clients, who's a bloke,
when I was chatting to him, he'd listened to it
(03:17):
and was really interesting. He goes, I want to start
learning about makee goes because kind of I'm around the
same age as you, and i'm around women that at
your age, and you know, so I loved that. I
loved that it had sparked interest in a male who went, hey,
this is something that people are going through and it's
relevant to me.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Absolutely. So last year, a friend and I, well, we're
out for my birthday and we're all there. There was
one guy and six females and you know, we're having
a few lemonades, and it got to the point where
everybody went around the table and they were talking about
something that had been bothering them at the time, and
the majority of the conversation was either a menopause, menopause hormones,
(04:02):
and then the emotional kind of rollercoaster that you go
on after that. And we just sat there and said,
you know what, no one fucking talks about it. And
so my friend and I embarked on a three episode
podcast called No One Fucking Talks About It, and the
majority of people that we heard from were men saying
those exact same things. You know, I've got so many
(04:23):
women in my life, and I didn't know that this
is what they went through. I didn't know that this
is what you had to put up with. Certainly didn't
know any of the physicality of it, and you know,
it was it was a real eye opener. And so, yeah,
I certainly have no issue talking about it. And yes,
I said, like, I think it's just a really great
thing that it's become so mainstream. Or maybe it's because
(04:47):
you know, we're surrounded by people of the same age
and who are going through the same things that we
feel like it's mainstream. Whatever the reason, it's really good.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I think it's a bit of both because I have
I've had a lot of conversations with some of my
friends that are, you know, ten or fifteen years older
than me, and they are saying the same things that
my foot like my friends in their forties are saying,
which is oh, but they've been going through it for
an extra decade, but they're going, oh, maybe I need
(05:19):
to look into this, or maybe there's solutions for me.
I didn't realize. I had one who said, when I
think back about this really tough time I had in
my personal life and my marriage, and I look back
at that time, I think I was really hormonal and
really chaotic and not myself amidst these massive life transitions,
(05:40):
and I think that that's I think why it's important
for men to know about it as well. And I
get a tiny sense of this. I've gone on HRT
six seven weeks ago, and I'm just starting to feel
this really unexpected shift in me, which feels like familiarity
of the version of me I used to be. And
(06:03):
I knew i'd lost my ability to recover. And I
knew I was tired and cranky and not sleeping well,
and I knew things had changed. But the shift that
has on your personality.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Absolutely is absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And you don't know when you're in the middle of it.
I didn't expect it, mate. You know, I could be wrong.
I might just be having a good week. Mate. It
might be an asshole again next week. So don't hold
me to it. But it interests me because I think
that women go through this, and when we're smack bang
in the middle of it, it's really hard to see.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I think that comes back to the whole not talking
about it though, right Like you've you're completely siloed off
in your own world and you're just thinking it's because
I didn't sleep well, or it's because of this, or
it's because of that, that there's no common denominator of
it actually being hormones. That you kind of go, maybe
it's just me. And then you also get that thing
of I don't know whether you've had it or anyone
(06:55):
else has, surely, but you go, it's just in my head.
That's just that's just my internal dialogue, my inner story.
And yet when you do actually talk about it. There's
so many other people that are like, no, it's me
as well. And you know, potentially it's an age thing.
You know, quite often now if we catch up with people,
(07:16):
the conversation tends to come around to so you know,
which which hormone therapy are you on at the moment,
or what have you tried and all this kind of stuff.
And you know, as you know, I keep saying to you, acapuncher,
go for it and go and get your almos regulated
that way. And that's something that my nan has drilled
into me. You know, she said that she was she
would describe it as she was raging through menopause, just
(07:39):
raging at the world, and she went for acapuncture and
said it changed her life. So I'll keep that in
my back.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Pocket from you've got me? Yeah, how old are you?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Forty three?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Forty three? So we're almost the same. You're just half
a footstep in front of me. That's annoying. You're always
going to be ahead of me in life. That's really annoying.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
But see, the thing is, though, so like a few
years ago, I was having a lot of issues with
my period, like bleeding NonStop. It was debilitating it was
cutting into my life. I was having times when like
I would have to cancel going out because I thought, God,
if my cough, I'm going to explode. And I finally thought, Okay,
(08:26):
I'm going to go and see a specialist. And so
go and see this specialist and she calls me and says,
you're actually borderline diabetes and you need to lose weight,
and you need to do this, and you need to
do that. And I'm like, shit, that's a bit of
a wake up call. Change my life, change my diet.
There's a lot of weight whenever. I still had the issue.
So I went to another doctor and turns out that
(08:47):
I have this thing I can't pronounce it at an omiosis,
which is almost the opposite to endometriosis. And so I'm
a medication for that now. And apparently the medication you
take for that kind of masks any symptoms of a perimenopause.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So is that in a does it balance them or
mask them? Is it in a problematic way?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I don't think it's problematic. I think it's been a
real game changer for me, and that you know, it's
it's regulated everything. Hormones are great, No pain, like I
was getting excruciating migraines. I would have days where I
could and get out of bed. And then I finally
saw this doctor and she said, I think you need this.
(09:38):
She said, this is it's not a way to live.
You must be exhausted. And I was just like, oh
my god, I've met someone who just gets it, and yeah,
what a game changer. And I saw it again recently
and I just said, I need to thank you, like
you have absolutely changed my life.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
How powerful it would have been to sit there and
have been on the receiving and someone just saying you
must be exhausted.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Oh my goodness, could have cried. But the validation, yeah, yeah, yeah,
because up until then it was like, well, you know,
you're a female, you get periods. This is this is
what happens.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
It's like I know that in the past before I
guess a lot of the conversations I've had on this
show and just diving into the world of learning shit.
I was one of those people that you know if
a friend said, oh, like I remember a friend was
whistle whisparring and once she was like, oh, my period,
(10:36):
so I'm going to cancel training. And I was like
what the what's wrong with you? Like I had no
regard for so, you know, it was just you just
train lock, what's so what? So you know, jam a
tampon in and let's go. What difference does it make it?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, just don't be girl. What does it matter? Who cares?
And it's interesting. It's so interesting too. Then you do
your learning and you start to open up and check
in with your body and feel and be like, oh,
actually I recognize that things do change. And then you know,
this year I have had pains which I've met I
(11:15):
haven't had since I first started getting my period when
I was a teenager. I never had you know, throughout
I never had anything like that.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Again it was like, oh, this is really uncomfortable, and
this is what women are talking about. And even I
was dismissing it to that degree.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, probably the most insightful thing a friend said to me.
So my wife started hitting menopause before me. She's a
bit older than me, and we weren't even talking about it,
you know, because it's just it's what you've grown up doing.
Like it's a very private thing. You don't talk about it.
You might have spoken about it with your mum or
(11:55):
a friend or something like that growing up, but you
just you know, you don't really talk about it. And
my friend said, how fascinating it was to realize that
two females in a relationship, living together married didn't talk
about it. Like that's the extent of not talking about it.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, that is funny.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, what all right?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Talk about your journey into the forties. Into the forties,
let me change what have you overcome? Did you end?
Has it been a case of hitting a wall with
things and then finding a solution, or have you found
yourself finding solutions? I guess like that condition, finding a
(12:39):
solution and then realizing that you've overcome something or you've
got something in place.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
I think a bit of all of that. So I
did a lot of work late twenties all through my thirties.
Had a very very good psychologist recommend seeing a shrink
to anyone like that, you find the right one and
happy days. And she and I mentioned this on Craig's
(13:05):
podcast a few weeks ago. She prescribed exercise as part
of my mental health. She's like, you know, yep, you can.
You can try medication if you want. I know, you
don't want to. I didn't, and she said, exercise for
you is going to be paramount in staying on top
of any kind of anxiety and depression. So great, yep.
(13:25):
So I think for me, it's been sticking to routines
and having those in place, So routines, boundaries, lots of learning.
If I don't know something, then I want to figure
it out. Except except numbers. I'm completely my brain shots
shuts off with numbers, like, don't show them to me,
don't ask me what one plus one is. I don't know.
(13:48):
I will get just a mental block.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
But you know one plus one when it's two chin
ups though, don't you, mate, Yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yes, yes, so do yeah. I think it's been a
lot of yeah, a lot of work and then hitting
my forties. Like a friend of mine said the other day,
because he's turning forty this year, and he said, I'm
a bit terrified, and I said, I actually really like it.
(14:18):
Like I feel it's going to sound really really weird,
but I feel almost the youngest that I ever have done,
the most curious, and the most kind of I'm really
pushing myself to get out of my shell and out
of my comfort zone. And do things like this, like
I've always wanted to do this and thought, who on
(14:39):
earth wants to listen to me? Who wants to hear
my voice? And so really just apparently, wow, look coming
all of us. Thank you. Yeah, it's it's been an
interesting journey, but at the moment it feels like it's
just starting.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I love that, what is the hardest thing you have
ever done?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
In what sense?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I guess that to choose to do something brave for
the first time, or something really out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So probably no surprise. I'm quite introverted, and for a
very long time I was working at the same place,
and I'd studied many different things. So my absolute passion
is to write, and so i'd studied film, I'd studied
writing and also then design, and I've been working in
(15:34):
a place where I thought, I need to actually utilize
what it is that I've studied. But I'm so scared.
I'm so scared to leave this security, these people that
I know, to get out into the real world. So
I got another job through a friend, and I quit
my job, the one i'd been at forever that was
(15:56):
my almost second home, absolute comfort zone. And on the
day that I had my farewell. The new place called
and said it's actually not going to work out, and
so yeah, yeah, yeah, And it was terrifying. But at
the same time, it felt like I had wings spreading
(16:19):
out of my back because it was like there was
this just world of possibility and I ended up getting
a new job, which was fine, but then I ended
up going back to where I was and since then
I've kind of progressed through different roles. But yeah, that
was ridiculous. That was like, you know, out of out
(16:42):
of all the people, like the scaredest to actually do that,
and then it was like here you go, this is
going to work and then nah, trickture. It was devastating.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I love that. Talk me through the process of how
you took that interpreted that kind of moment to moment,
Like was there fear and chaos and like a bit
of a breakdown or did you immediately go to a
place of Okay, this is an opportunity, I'm free or whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, there was tears at first, and this was all
in the space of I think about two hours. There
was tears, There was a fair bit of wine. There
was holy shit, what am I going to do? Like
this is and even, and then it was like the
logic kind of came into it. Okay, well I've got
these qualifications, I've got this kind of folloy of work
(17:42):
because I was looking at design roles then and I
just my same shrink said, the most important thing to
do is keep a routine. So you know, get up
every day as if you were going to work. But
instead of going to work, you're applying for jobs, and
you're working on your and you're putting yourself out there,
you're having conversations, you are you know, put looking at
(18:05):
LinkedIn all that kind of stuff. So it very quickly
became an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Why do you think that we choose? How do I
ask this? Why do you think we stay in old
habits and comfort zones even when we strongly desire change,
even when we desire it so much that we almost
start to resent or regret things.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I think I know for me, it was that staying
was safer than leaving. So yeah, as much as I thought,
you know, I want to I want to go and work,
like maybe in the city and be able to get
coffee at cool places, it was more this idea of
what was wrapped around the concept of say working you
(18:56):
know in the CBD or something like that, or it
wasn't it wasn't enough to go I'm going to leave
the security of, you know, a job that is paying
my rent and a job that you know, I know
that you know I can do, and a job that
has people who I know I get along with that
I'm not really challenged by, you know. I think it
(19:18):
was just it was pure fear. But then it got
to Yeah, when that happened, I was like, well, this
is a really big lesson. What can I take from this?
What can I learn from this? And I learned a lot.
I learned that I was very capable, which I hadn't
really believed, and I think that was holding you back
(19:38):
as well, you know the whole The only reason that
you know, I'm accepted here in this role is because
I've been doing it for so long and it's kind
of set and forget and I'm not challenged, and if
I go somewhere else, I'll be found out that I
can't actually do it or I'm not good enough. So
pure fear, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I get that. When I think about myself in jobs
back in the day, back in the day when I
had bosses and real people in my world. I can
recall a couple of times where I have wanted to
move on. I've wanted to chase something new. I've been
and I've felt, and I remember saying it over and
(20:20):
over a bit, staying in that comfort zone, staying there,
and both times something had happened. I once was a redundancy,
Like things happen when I don't make a choice, and
the immediate response I have to forced change is elation, excitement,
(20:40):
and opportunity. I'm like, this is awesome, and I end
up with that particular time. I went home that Friday
after finding out that my job had been made redundant,
and by the Saturday, I'd been through an interview and
confirmed the next job. At lunchtime on Monday, I took
a lunch break from my new job to drive to
(21:00):
the old workplace and drop my keys back into them,
and I just remember thinking, this is like it was
every time. It's a reminder from whatever you want to
call it, the universe or the fucking or whatever whatever
woo woo term you want to cling to that goes hey,
life has got My life is life is telling me
(21:22):
if you know you need to make this change, get
off your ass, or I will make it for you
and it'll just be better if you do it.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah. Yeah, and that's what it felt like. So what
was it for you? You were it was just fear
as well.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I think that it is. I operate really choice,
it's choice and decisions. It's the what ifs. So same
thing happened in when COVID hit and my gym's got
shut down and I thought, shit, I'm out of this
could go real bad, I could end up bankrupt. I'm
not sure what's going to happen. I'm not lose everything
(21:58):
right now. This is this is completely out of my control.
There was absolute liberation. This whole podcast and Roll with
the Punches and brand and version of Tiff now all
came about because I was backed into a corner and
I went, Okay, cool, Well I'm going to pretend that
bankruptcy is inevitable. I'm going to pretend that the worst
(22:19):
case scenario is exactly what I'm facing and I'm just
going to live in that and so, and I don't
mean wallow in it. I mean from that point I went, well,
I'm not going to go out doing pts fucking two
clients a day or whatever the limit was that they
were RelA I'm not going to go out to earn
money because gee, I don't know if I'm going to
(22:41):
lose it all anyway. So I'm going to spend my
time building skills, networks, and a brand. And that's for
me that became podcasting. It was like, I love communication,
I love building relationships with people. They're things that I
want to get a lot better at and that focus
Now as that through, what's interesting is my relationship with
(23:04):
that realization. I still hold it. It still the story. I'm
still aware of it, but pulled I get pulled back
into that same comfort zone of like I remember a
point where I went, I feel less secure and more
fearful since I know I'm not gonna lose absolutely everything
and have to burn to the ground and sleep on
(23:25):
someone's couch. You know. It was like, Oh, when you've
got nothing to lose, you've got nothing to lose, You've
only got optimism. When you've hit the bottom, there's only
one way to go and it can only get better.
But when there's oh, this is okay and this is tolerable,
But what if I slip off the platform and end
up further away from here that I think that's what
(23:47):
terrifies is that's what even with even unconsciously, we just
end up clinging to the platform of okayness.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Al Right, absolutely, And isn't it interesting that they're so
many people that have hope streams ambitions, but I held
back by fear and I was I was listening to
something this morning and it was another podcast where she
was talking about how she was taking her podcast on
tour and her team said, and she's like, I don't
(24:18):
know about taking things on tour, like, yeah, I'll talk
to people whatever, and they're like, no, no, you actually
have to perform. So I don't know how to perform. Well, learn,
absolutely learn, and just if you're worried, if you're scared,
you do it anyway, and even more so, do it
in a really big way. So don't just aim for
(24:38):
I'm going to get through it. Aim for I'm going
to smash it. And you know, it had this kind
of real, you know, American hype to it, and it's like, well,
but maybe that there's something to that, like the whole
idea of a lot of people don't do anything until
they're pushed, But then maybe it's a way of pushing
yourself by saying, you know, I'm scared of something, whether
(25:02):
it's like I know, for me, it's public speaking, so
it's like, well, would I then say to myself, well,
don't just get through it, turn it into a performance
and really, you know, hit it out of the park.
I don't know. It's it's an interesting concept of how
you embrace things when you're forced to.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I'm I'm doing a program at the moment around a
bround speaking, so I'm learning heaps heaps of things that
I didn't know I needed to learn or didn't know
there was to learn, which is really awesome. But also
there's aspects of it that I have to park current
tip and the way I do things and the way
(25:45):
I'm comfortable and go. It doesn't matter, you know, that
idea of practicing specific delivery of content or scripting to
start with, so you can hone the way that you
make impact with your words. And I hate that because
because it feels performative and disingenuous for the way that
(26:06):
I do things. But in the middle of this course,
it's like, Okay, this is just an experience that is
going to teach you something. It doesn't mean you change
the template of who you are when you move forward
and are speaking. But it's an exercise. Yeah, it's really
for me. It's been a very a friction point.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, because how much do you actually script versus how
much do you just go with because you've mentally prepared
for something.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, So I don't script at all, but I do
a lot of preparation in terms of I guess understanding
that the chunks of Okay, I'm going to share this experience,
this experience, and I'm going to highlight this, this and this,
so I have a similar flow. But so out of
(27:03):
the scripting, I'm learning parts of it that are really
important in terms of how people grasp messages, how we
speak into people with different learning styles, to us, all
of those small things that aren't in my consciousness currently.
(27:26):
But also a bloody hate the scripting. I hate reading it.
But the great thing is so when we was in
I feel like I've told this story on a recent podcast,
but it's only a couple of minutes. Sorry everybody. When
I was in Queensland for the Business of Speaking conference
held by the same chick Jacqueline Brooker, shout out to you.
You're awesome. Up there, they announced this story Slam competition,
(27:50):
So long story short, they announced it and then the
next you had that night to enter it with one
hundred character bloody tagline of what you're going to talk about.
Everyone got to vote, and the next night, with two
hours notice, six people were picked and at dinner we
got to do this story slam and you had three minutes.
What was awesome about that is a I want it
(28:10):
so go me. That's always gonna be awesome. I want
a solid chocolate microphone, just saying what a great prize.
But what it showed me was I'd used one of
the stories that I'd selected to talk about, and I'd
written that down and I hadn't re read it or anything.
I just I'd written a five minute version of that
(28:33):
in my head in my hotel, and all, I'll tell
that story. That's funny, picked the way I was going
to describe it, and then I ran through it a
couple of times just to see what the timing was like.
And I got it down and I didn't think about
what didn't need to script it. So it was like, Okay,
this whole process works because I know how to cut
out all the minutia and bullshit that doesn't need to
be said, and I know how to like it all landed.
(28:55):
I landed in the same place as my usual style
and riffing, but I have more clarity on Yeah, what's
what's going in and what's being left out and how
to hold people's attention to what actually matters. Plus you
know what I'm like, mate, I am off on a tangent,
and then by the time I finish that tangent, I'm like, hey,
(29:17):
everyone listening, what was I talking about before I decided
that would be important to talk about? Like, I lose
my train of thought and this will this will mean
that there's none of that, There's no fucking tiff on
a tangent and a little bit, but I'll know where
to come back to.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, that's it's fascinating. Do you get scared or nervous
or anything when you get up and things like that?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Shit? Yeah, I'm a shocker before, especially in the lead
up to events, in the lead up, in the preparation,
I am utterly hideous. Poor Harps. Whilst I'm doing this
course gets so many calls about how I hate learning,
and I just want a rant because this is the
shittest process ever caught up with this morning because I
was like, I need a body double. I need you
(30:05):
to sit with me in my thoughts, with me and
just get some clarity because I am I am just
making a mess of everything in my head.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
That's fit nice. So just that I need a body
double to sit in my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
It's a thing that I'm realizing is a thing for me.
And so we've got little mastermind groups within the course
we're doing, which is awesome. So I go, I need
someone to sit with me, because then I talk and
we both make sense and I get clarity. But when
I'm by myself, it's like a fucking kitten plane with
(30:39):
a ball of wool. I'm like, whoa, oh, this is
all tangled. Now, what a mess?
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Absolutely, How do you go telling the dude that's doing
the PhD that you don't like learning?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
He laughs, he laughs. I think he loves it, because
you know, he's he's it's not loving the academic process
in terms of that part of it. You know, he
loves the learning and the information and learning new things.
But I think there's that part of academia which is
very like me. It's the sitting still and doing things.
(31:15):
It's the things that challenge me in this program. Hey,
I'm going to teach you a method and a structure
and a thing, and this is how we're going to
do it. And it's a new way of thinking and creation.
And I'm like, I don't do all that. I don't
know what you mean. So when it's when I'm being
invokes like that, I'm like, I just tell me the
fucking answer. Just tell me answer, or give me something
(31:37):
that looks like so I can reverse engineer. I don't
like the process. Sometimes I get lost in the process.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that. It's like it's so
I've been to UNI twice and was it I mean,
was it an enjoyable experience? The second time was enjoyable.
The first time I was like, I was such a baby,
Like I didn't I think I've got one friend from
the time that I was there because I was just
so painfully shy, so any kind of presentation was like
(32:09):
I would rather like eat my own arm than speak
in front of a group of people. And then the
second time, like I've got to I still have very
close friends from that experience, but it's a fear now
to go back to UNI and study more. So I
look at things like just different courses and whatever, and
(32:31):
it's literally like a panic dream for me. Like I
will have dreams that I'm back at UNI, and I
wake up going, what the fuck was that? Do I
have to go back to like lectures and tutorials and
group projects and oh my god?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
So fear? What's the fear about?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Good question? I think it's just the repetition, Like it
feels like kind of like the mouse on the wheel,
and it's like it gave me the skills and the
freedom to do what I do now. So I studied
a wide variety of things and now with my current role,
they all come under that umbrella, which is fantastic. So
(33:08):
to think of going back to it, like, yeah, maybe
it'd be different now because I am looking at you know, well,
how can I upskill and learn a bit more about
you know, X y Z. But yeah, for a very
long time it will be like, what, I don't want
to be back here, And maybe, you know, to get
more philosophical about it, maybe it's not wanting to go
back to that version of me that I associate with
(33:29):
that time. That's probably more of it.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
When you when you say upskilling, what do you What
do you want? Do you want to know more about
a particular way or place? Do you want to progress
in terms of your career development? What is upskilling for you?
I prefer fuck have a listening to me mash two
words together. Is it personal, more personal, more professional? Or both?
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Both? Absolutely? Both? So I feel like I have done
a lot of personal development, but at the same time
that is lifelong, Like I think it needs to be lifelong.
If you get to a point where you say, you know,
I've learned enough, I think I'm pretty good. That's it.
I'm done. I'm going to coast until you know, the
(34:19):
day that I head off, No, I think. I like
my personal belief is that you need to keep learning,
you need to keep challenging yourself in that way, and
the same professionally, Like I think because it has been
such a comfort zone for me, and I am back
in that you know, organization that I, you know, was
(34:40):
kind of desperate to leave, to be able to bring
the best of myself and my abilities and capabilities. I
feel like that's the right thing to do. And also
like I find it quite interesting to learn, you know well,
for instance, like part of my job is social media,
(35:01):
So why is it that some people relate to that
post as opposed to that post? And then how do
you how do you measure that? How do I go
to somebody and say, I know that this worked because
there's this information that says so so I like, I
like just knowing.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
If you if there was anything holding you back, hypothetically,
what is it?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Oh myself? Absolutely tell me more still fear. I mean,
you know, I said it to Craig like it took
me ages to even say hello to him, and then
even with you, like I think I reached out to
you at a time where I'd received a promotion at
(35:47):
work and I thought, well, I'm stepping into a new space.
I need to push myself a bit further and challenge
myself and learn a few new things in order to
really perform at that level. And that's when you and
I started talking. But I still, like, will constantly have
moments of you know, there's you do all of this work,
(36:09):
and then suddenly you have a day where the world
can go and fuck itself, and you know, every second
word that comes out of your mouth is just an
f bomb because everything sucks and you feel like shit
and then I don't know, it just it makes you go, oh, okay,
there's still some work to do, but yeah probably yeah myself.
(36:30):
So there's still fear of the unknown. There's still fear
of what if that doesn't work, what if I'm not liked,
what if it doesn't land properly? Yeah, absolute fear.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Do you think given that so lots of mindset stuff,
there are lots of awareness, do you think that there's
more leverage for you in if you were to learn
to change that or to accept that about you're thinking.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Probably accepting changing it. I don't know that it be
square peg round whole kind of scenario. I think because
it's fairly ingrained in who I am, so I think
it's more accepting. And you know, I think when I
say that, you know, the forties for me have been
(37:30):
pretty good. There's been a lot of accepting around who
I am, how I am, and that I am extremely
hard on myself. So it's that I don't know, it's
a weird dichotomy, I think because there's self awareness and
(37:50):
then there's also bringing in that like huge amount of
self criticism and they kind of they meet somewhere and clash.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
And what do you think self accept What do you
think acceptance looks, feels, and sounds like, Because some people
listen to that and go, oh, so you're just going
to accept that you feel that you've you think ship
things about yourself or your heart on yourself, and that
doesn't feel like it's a it's going to get you anywhere.
So for you, what is what does acceptance alleviate?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
I think it's so probably recently and in particularly doing
these podcasts right like I really enjoy them, Like I
have so much fun there. It's I'm so curious about
people and just want to know more and have these
really you know, deep conversations. And I've been told you're
(38:49):
really good at it. You know, you sound good, you
say really interesting things, you ask good questions, and I'm like, ah, okay, yep.
And I think it's just having grown up in a
way where I was told probably a lot of really
negative things about myself. You know, you can't, you never will,
(39:12):
you won't be, You're not good enough. That's the kind
of self belief that you start to have and so
when and that's probably where the all of the you know,
self criticism and negative thoughts come from. It's just that
reinforcement of all of that, and when you get to
a point where people are saying good things about you,
(39:33):
it's like, oh, no, I can't believe that, because that's
you know, it's going to make me sound like, you know,
I've got my head up my ass and you know,
I believe my own shit. So I think it's I
think it's accepting the good things that would be a
huge change m for reasons.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. I was just thinking about
the language we use and the words and like brainstorming
as you were speaking, and like, I wonder if it's
more understanding or having like accepting from the point of observation,
It's like, I have a tendency. It's a tendency rather
than a personality trait. I've got a tendency to go
(40:16):
to this place. I've got a tendency to have moments
where I feel this, this, and this and go back
to these thoughts and be curious and understanding, but not
fight it and not be angry and self critical about
the fact that we go to that place at times.
(40:37):
So I think rather than just accepting and going well,
I'm just a person who is hard on myself and
thinks I'm shit, and I don't want to I don't
want to change that because I don't want to be
one of those you know, tall poppy like, I don't
want people to think I'm good. So I'm better off
thinking that I'm shit, which you're not. And plus, for
(40:59):
everybody like you are so incredibly capable and so incredibly
good at what you do, and so your interpersonal skills
and your professional skills and everything that you've freaked out
about and then gone and done is phenomenal. So it's
like for people listening that would relate to how you
(41:24):
feel and sometimes see yourself. You're a real high achiever.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Thanks, Yeah, it's yeah. It's an interesting one, even just
being able to say thanks instead of like, ah, yeah,
all right, how's the weather. Yeah, you know it's I
think it's changing those really ingrained thought processes. And even
(41:50):
in saying that I've done a lot of work, you're right, Like,
it's looking at something and viewing it as the almost
it's just an experience that you're having in that moment.
It's not part of you. And this was a really
good reframe of anxiety for me that a lot of
people will say, well, I have anxiety. No, you need
(42:11):
to reframe it in the way that you experience anxiety.
It's not a defining part of you. It's not within you.
It's just something that you experience from time to time,
and it can be you know, maybe one day it's
out of ten, maybe one day it's at a two.
But it's not who you are. So yeah, I mean
(42:33):
this is really this really has turned into a free
coaching session, hasn't it. It's great.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
It's what happens when you put two curious cats together
to talk about life.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
No, it.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Really is an interesting way of thinking about it that
you're observing things that are happening in your life that
potentially aren't you know, good experiences. But it's just an experience.
It's not defining.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah. Yeah, I always I postponder a lot. I have
for a while of long while now, and especially as
you know, with the energy shifts and para metopause and this,
you know, having to change the way I do things
and approach life and my sense of self especially. So
I have always had this fascination with how do we
(43:25):
perceive life, truth, reality us? And when I could because
you know, nearly a thousand conversations on this show, and
a lot of them conflict with each other. For example,
like one of the most easy to talk about is
doctor Mindi Pel's came on the show talked about female fasting.
At that time, I was like, this is amazing. I've
(43:46):
never heard anyone speak about this like this. This is fascinating.
I loved fasting, so I was balls deep in it yea.
And over the years I was like, I started to
come to a point where I'm like, maybe this is
burning me out. I don't know if it is. Then
I found doctor Stacy Simms Pole are opposite conversation there,
and I was like, she's the fucking guru. Actually that
(44:07):
lands about it. So we have to make choices. And
that happens with whether we're talking about diet or psychology
or trauma or healing or what's the answer to everything,
because we're all searching for answers. And I have this
philosophy that we I go, well, what do I believe?
And if I choose to believe that, what effect does
(44:27):
it have on myself, my life, my choices, my relationships,
and my decisions. And I think we have to do
that with our beliefs, like what does it mean if
I believe in this type of strategy or a type
of therapy. And it's hard because we put ourselves in
(44:49):
boxes of I believe this and not that I believe
in acupuncture and not fucking something else, or I believe
in energy healing or I don't, And then you know, like, yeah,
I think because it gives us control, it gives us answers,
it connects us to different people with different energy. So
(45:11):
I think that our beliefs have a lot more impact
on us in ways that we don't recognize. We might
think it's the thing, Oh, it's the needles this bloke
sticking end to me. It might be his energy field
and frequency and just being in someone's room for an
hour listening to the words that he says whilst it
does a therapy might be eighty percent of the fucking
therapy itself.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Could be interesting what you were just saying. Then it's yeah,
what you believe, like you kind of what's the there's
some quote, there's a quote that's kind of like it'll
come to me. But what I thought then was how
much of it in terms of your beliefs? And you know,
so this is how I am. So this is what
(45:53):
I do. How much of your beliefs then become self limiting,
which is quite interesting in contrast. Right, so you're saying, well,
you know, I believe in X, Y and Z, and
I remember listening to the ones about fasting and I'm like,
that's great, Like I'm fasting at the moment, so this
is really right. But yeah, there'd be that slump of
oh my god, I could curl up like a cat
(46:13):
and go to sleep, like this is ridiculous. And then
same with doctor Stacy, like she's an absolute gun and
I'm like, that's it. I'm having my protein before I
go to the gym in the morning. It's you know,
I'm going to be absolutely ripped. And then I'm like,
I could actually spew at the gym because I feel
like I've got so much fuel in my body. Like
it didn't work for me. Yeah, it's interesting your beliefs
(46:40):
and how they guide you. And this is probably one
of the biggest reasons why I started listening to Craig.
Like there were a few episodes that I heard, and
then I think there was one that he did on
his own and it was about living in alignment and
echo chambers, and I was like it was the first
time that I'd heard any thing like that, and I
(47:01):
was like, holy crap, this just makes so much sense,
Like you have to Yeah, you the importance of doing
what you say you're going to do, and that's that's
probably a very firm belief of mine.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
One of the quotes that I've re shared several times
and think about a lot lately, a lot in the
last couple of years. I think just because I've had
to I've had to change a lot of how I
do things that I observe it that way. And it
was the quote around if you followed me around for
a week, would you be able to guess my goals?
(47:43):
Or however it's worded like if someone followed you around
for a week, would they be able to tell you
what your goals are? And I think it's the most
like confronting way for self honesty because if they can't,
then you don't even need to say you know that
you are not acting in alignment.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Wow. I think at the moment, people would think that
I wanted to be like a TikTok superstar because that's
that's where I'm spending my time mostly, Like have you
been down a TikTok rabbit hole like the gym girls
on there are nuts.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
I haven't, actually, like I go on Instagram real rabbit
holes all the time, and I've had a little bit
of a tinker with TikTok here and there, but i
haven't not too much of the one part of the
doom scrolling world that I've kept myself a little bit
safe from.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
See I had, and then my niece said that she
had TikTok and I was like, well, protective art mode engaged.
I need to see what it is you're doing and
what you're looking at and make sure that you know
no one's trying to talk to you. And so now
like I'm like, great, yeah, thanks, thanks for that. Glad
(48:58):
that I'm on TikTok because of you.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
I love somebody. One of my friends sent me a
reel the other day. Oh no, they had looked at
a real and they'd sent it to their friends because
it was about ADHD and defiance and it was very funny.
And then they looked at that account again and then
they sent me a screenshot. They said, is this your Courtney?
My best mate Courtney lives in Perth, and I talked
(49:25):
about her a lot, yeah, and they didn't know them
and they were like, is that her? And I'm like,
that is my Courtney. I love how people are like oh,
and the amount of times people friends of mine will
send me one of Craig's quotes and I'm like, you know,
that's that's Craig. You know that's Craig's kept like they
(49:45):
might follow it, but people have sent reels and then
they'll send it to me and I'm like, yeah, I know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
My friends, yeah, some of my friends are now starting
to follow him as well, and they'll send it to
me and I'm like, this is what I've been banging
on about for so long and they're like, oh, it's him,
is it? That's him? And generally, and this is the
very surprising thing, guarantee, it's the super sweary ones that
they said to me. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, all those
(50:14):
dark horses that butter wouldn't melt as soon as the
sea bombs flying around. They're like calib like.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
This said a lot about you, kel.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Well yeah, yeah, it does does.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Well. This has been super fun and you'll have to
come back on for another chat because I reckon we
could talk for hours.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
We can get to the we didn't get to the
topic that we had.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Said written in front of me, but then we got
so close to time that I was like, I don't
want to start it and have to cut it short.
And I've got it. I've got another meeting like now.
So I guess that's your official invitation back.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Excellent, look at me just worming my way in everywhere? Great.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Do you want to share anything with anyone? Do you
want to send them anywhere to reach out or follow
you or hear your podcast anywhere?
Speaker 1 (51:10):
No? I think I'm just enjoying being part of everyone
else as well as at the moment. So yeah, maybe
when I come back, if people want to know more
than we can share them. But I'll shy away from
the ego and the tall poppy that we mentioned earlier.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
All right, we'll do that then. Hey, thanks, thanks for
coming along, Thanks for the chat.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Your race, Oh, thank you your race as well.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Thanks everyone, she said, it's now never I got fighting
in my blood to
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is Roll with the Punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family
Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au Kel Smith. Welcome to
(00:54):
Roll with the Punches.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
How exciting? How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm really good? How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
You're the latest big thing in podcasting. I believe.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Look apparently so look I have. As Craig said, I
was basically just getting some free coaching that he turned
into a podcast. And I thought, you know what, I'm
going to be really cheeky and try the same with you.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And here we are, I said to Craig. I had
coffee with Craigs morning, I said, Kels come for a downgrade.
She's come for a downgrade. She's gone to the absolute
pinnacle of podcasts, and now she's coming to slum it
with me. I'm excited to talk to you, though, because
we have good chats. So what could possibly go wrong?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh? Look, nothing, everything, all of it. Who knows, who knows,
Let's just dive in. I think I said to you,
let's just talk about girly things like lifting weights and
menopause and hormones.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yes, I am on such a tangent, you know, because
I'm carrying on. But I'm on such a tangent about
that at the moment. But it's just so. It's funny
when you start talking about something, isn't it, and then
everyone everyone goes, oh, thank god, yes right. So it's
such a for me. It's so topical.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I think also too, like it's been made a little
bit more mainstream. I'm not sure why or how, but
I'm really glad that it has, like any kind of
women's topic. I remember a few weeks ago on the
Project actually, which has sadly been taken off air, but
there was a very frank conversation about women's health, hormones, periods,
(02:36):
and the guy that was sitting there, you know, he
could see it was squirming, and they said, look, I'm
really sorry that you know, you're having to listen to this,
and he said, no, don't. Don't you dare apologize because
I should be listening to this, and other men should
be listening to this, and we should be talking about this.
So for whatever reason, I think it's great.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Do you know what I loved? I recently did a
solo episode just to talking about all right, I'm going
to share this whole hormonal perimenopause chaos that I'm going
through and just had a riff on it, right, And
one of my one of my clients, who's a bloke,
when I was chatting to him, he'd listened to it
(03:17):
and was really interesting. He goes, I want to start
learning about makee goes because kind of I'm around the
same age as you, and i'm around women that at
your age, and you know, so I loved that. I
loved that it had sparked interest in a male who went, hey,
this is something that people are going through and it's
relevant to me.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Absolutely. So last year, a friend and I, well, we're
out for my birthday and we're all there. There was
one guy and six females and you know, we're having
a few lemonades, and it got to the point where
everybody went around the table and they were talking about
something that had been bothering them at the time, and
the majority of the conversation was either a menopause, menopause hormones,
(04:02):
and then the emotional kind of rollercoaster that you go
on after that. And we just sat there and said,
you know what, no one fucking talks about it. And
so my friend and I embarked on a three episode
podcast called No One Fucking Talks About It, and the
majority of people that we heard from were men saying
those exact same things. You know, I've got so many
(04:23):
women in my life, and I didn't know that this
is what they went through. I didn't know that this
is what you had to put up with. Certainly didn't
know any of the physicality of it, and you know,
it was it was a real eye opener. And so, yeah,
I certainly have no issue talking about it. And yes,
I said, like, I think it's just a really great
thing that it's become so mainstream. Or maybe it's because
(04:47):
you know, we're surrounded by people of the same age
and who are going through the same things that we
feel like it's mainstream. Whatever the reason, it's really good.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I think it's a bit of both because I have
I've had a lot of conversations with some of my
friends that are, you know, ten or fifteen years older
than me, and they are saying the same things that
my foot like my friends in their forties are saying,
which is oh, but they've been going through it for
an extra decade, but they're going, oh, maybe I need
(05:19):
to look into this, or maybe there's solutions for me.
I didn't realize. I had one who said, when I
think back about this really tough time I had in
my personal life and my marriage, and I look back
at that time, I think I was really hormonal and
really chaotic and not myself amidst these massive life transitions,
(05:40):
and I think that that's I think why it's important
for men to know about it as well. And I
get a tiny sense of this. I've gone on HRT
six seven weeks ago, and I'm just starting to feel
this really unexpected shift in me, which feels like familiarity
of the version of me I used to be. And
(06:03):
I knew i'd lost my ability to recover. And I
knew I was tired and cranky and not sleeping well,
and I knew things had changed. But the shift that
has on your personality.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Absolutely is absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And you don't know when you're in the middle of it.
I didn't expect it, mate. You know, I could be wrong.
I might just be having a good week. Mate. It
might be an asshole again next week. So don't hold
me to it. But it interests me because I think
that women go through this, and when we're smack bang
in the middle of it, it's really hard to see.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I think that comes back to the whole not talking
about it though, right Like you've you're completely siloed off
in your own world and you're just thinking it's because
I didn't sleep well, or it's because of this, or
it's because of that, that there's no common denominator of
it actually being hormones. That you kind of go, maybe
it's just me. And then you also get that thing
of I don't know whether you've had it or anyone
(06:55):
else has, surely, but you go, it's just in my head.
That's just that's just my internal dialogue, my inner story.
And yet when you do actually talk about it. There's
so many other people that are like, no, it's me
as well. And you know, potentially it's an age thing.
You know, quite often now if we catch up with people,
(07:16):
the conversation tends to come around to so you know,
which which hormone therapy are you on at the moment,
or what have you tried and all this kind of stuff.
And you know, as you know, I keep saying to you, acapuncher,
go for it and go and get your almos regulated
that way. And that's something that my nan has drilled
into me. You know, she said that she was she
would describe it as she was raging through menopause, just
(07:39):
raging at the world, and she went for acapuncture and
said it changed her life. So I'll keep that in
my back.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Pocket from you've got me? Yeah, how old are you?
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Forty three?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Forty three? So we're almost the same. You're just half
a footstep in front of me. That's annoying. You're always
going to be ahead of me in life. That's really annoying.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
But see, the thing is, though, so like a few
years ago, I was having a lot of issues with
my period, like bleeding NonStop. It was debilitating it was
cutting into my life. I was having times when like
I would have to cancel going out because I thought, God,
if my cough, I'm going to explode. And I finally thought, Okay,
(08:26):
I'm going to go and see a specialist. And so
go and see this specialist and she calls me and says,
you're actually borderline diabetes and you need to lose weight,
and you need to do this, and you need to
do that. And I'm like, shit, that's a bit of
a wake up call. Change my life, change my diet.
There's a lot of weight whenever. I still had the issue.
So I went to another doctor and turns out that
(08:47):
I have this thing I can't pronounce it at an omiosis,
which is almost the opposite to endometriosis. And so I'm
a medication for that now. And apparently the medication you
take for that kind of masks any symptoms of a perimenopause.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So is that in a does it balance them or
mask them? Is it in a problematic way?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I don't think it's problematic. I think it's been a
real game changer for me, and that you know, it's
it's regulated everything. Hormones are great, No pain, like I
was getting excruciating migraines. I would have days where I
could and get out of bed. And then I finally
saw this doctor and she said, I think you need this.
(09:38):
She said, this is it's not a way to live.
You must be exhausted. And I was just like, oh
my god, I've met someone who just gets it, and yeah,
what a game changer. And I saw it again recently
and I just said, I need to thank you, like
you have absolutely changed my life.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
How powerful it would have been to sit there and
have been on the receiving and someone just saying you
must be exhausted.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Oh my goodness, could have cried. But the validation, yeah, yeah, yeah,
because up until then it was like, well, you know,
you're a female, you get periods. This is this is
what happens.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
It's like I know that in the past before I
guess a lot of the conversations I've had on this
show and just diving into the world of learning shit.
I was one of those people that you know if
a friend said, oh, like I remember a friend was
whistle whisparring and once she was like, oh, my period,
(10:36):
so I'm going to cancel training. And I was like
what the what's wrong with you? Like I had no
regard for so, you know, it was just you just
train lock, what's so what? So you know, jam a
tampon in and let's go. What difference does it make it?
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I didn't.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, just don't be girl. What does it matter? Who cares?
And it's interesting. It's so interesting too. Then you do
your learning and you start to open up and check
in with your body and feel and be like, oh,
actually I recognize that things do change. And then you know,
this year I have had pains which I've met I
(11:15):
haven't had since I first started getting my period when
I was a teenager. I never had you know, throughout
I never had anything like that.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Again it was like, oh, this is really uncomfortable, and
this is what women are talking about. And even I
was dismissing it to that degree.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, probably the most insightful thing a friend said to me.
So my wife started hitting menopause before me. She's a
bit older than me, and we weren't even talking about it,
you know, because it's just it's what you've grown up doing.
Like it's a very private thing. You don't talk about it.
You might have spoken about it with your mum or
(11:55):
a friend or something like that growing up, but you
just you know, you don't really talk about it. And
my friend said, how fascinating it was to realize that
two females in a relationship, living together married didn't talk
about it. Like that's the extent of not talking about it.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, that is funny.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, yeah, what all right?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Talk about your journey into the forties. Into the forties,
let me change what have you overcome? Did you end?
Has it been a case of hitting a wall with
things and then finding a solution, or have you found
yourself finding solutions? I guess like that condition, finding a
(12:39):
solution and then realizing that you've overcome something or you've
got something in place.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
I think a bit of all of that. So I
did a lot of work late twenties all through my thirties.
Had a very very good psychologist recommend seeing a shrink
to anyone like that, you find the right one and
happy days. And she and I mentioned this on Craig's
(13:05):
podcast a few weeks ago. She prescribed exercise as part
of my mental health. She's like, you know, yep, you can.
You can try medication if you want. I know, you
don't want to. I didn't, and she said, exercise for
you is going to be paramount in staying on top
of any kind of anxiety and depression. So great, yep.
(13:25):
So I think for me, it's been sticking to routines
and having those in place, So routines, boundaries, lots of learning.
If I don't know something, then I want to figure
it out. Except except numbers. I'm completely my brain shots
shuts off with numbers, like, don't show them to me,
don't ask me what one plus one is. I don't know.
(13:48):
I will get just a mental block.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
But you know one plus one when it's two chin
ups though, don't you, mate, Yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yes, yes, so do yeah. I think it's been a
lot of yeah, a lot of work and then hitting
my forties. Like a friend of mine said the other day,
because he's turning forty this year, and he said, I'm
a bit terrified, and I said, I actually really like it.
(14:18):
Like I feel it's going to sound really really weird,
but I feel almost the youngest that I ever have done,
the most curious, and the most kind of I'm really
pushing myself to get out of my shell and out
of my comfort zone. And do things like this, like
I've always wanted to do this and thought, who on
(14:39):
earth wants to listen to me? Who wants to hear
my voice? And so really just apparently, wow, look coming
all of us. Thank you. Yeah, it's it's been an
interesting journey, but at the moment it feels like it's
just starting.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I love that, what is the hardest thing you have
ever done?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
In what sense?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I guess that to choose to do something brave for
the first time, or something really out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So probably no surprise. I'm quite introverted, and for a
very long time I was working at the same place,
and I'd studied many different things. So my absolute passion
is to write, and so i'd studied film, I'd studied
writing and also then design, and I've been working in
(15:34):
a place where I thought, I need to actually utilize
what it is that I've studied. But I'm so scared.
I'm so scared to leave this security, these people that
I know, to get out into the real world. So
I got another job through a friend, and I quit
my job, the one i'd been at forever that was
(15:56):
my almost second home, absolute comfort zone. And on the
day that I had my farewell. The new place called
and said it's actually not going to work out, and
so yeah, yeah, yeah, And it was terrifying. But at
the same time, it felt like I had wings spreading
(16:19):
out of my back because it was like there was
this just world of possibility and I ended up getting
a new job, which was fine, but then I ended
up going back to where I was and since then
I've kind of progressed through different roles. But yeah, that
was ridiculous. That was like, you know, out of out
(16:42):
of all the people, like the scaredest to actually do that,
and then it was like here you go, this is
going to work and then nah, trickture. It was devastating.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I love that. Talk me through the process of how
you took that interpreted that kind of moment to moment,
Like was there fear and chaos and like a bit
of a breakdown or did you immediately go to a
place of Okay, this is an opportunity, I'm free or whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, there was tears at first, and this was all
in the space of I think about two hours. There
was tears, There was a fair bit of wine. There
was holy shit, what am I going to do? Like
this is and even, and then it was like the
logic kind of came into it. Okay, well I've got
these qualifications, I've got this kind of folloy of work
(17:42):
because I was looking at design roles then and I
just my same shrink said, the most important thing to
do is keep a routine. So you know, get up
every day as if you were going to work. But
instead of going to work, you're applying for jobs, and
you're working on your and you're putting yourself out there,
you're having conversations, you are you know, put looking at
(18:05):
LinkedIn all that kind of stuff. So it very quickly
became an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Why do you think that we choose? How do I
ask this? Why do you think we stay in old
habits and comfort zones even when we strongly desire change,
even when we desire it so much that we almost
start to resent or regret things.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I think I know for me, it was that staying
was safer than leaving. So yeah, as much as I thought,
you know, I want to I want to go and work,
like maybe in the city and be able to get
coffee at cool places, it was more this idea of
what was wrapped around the concept of say working you
(18:56):
know in the CBD or something like that, or it
wasn't it wasn't enough to go I'm going to leave
the security of, you know, a job that is paying
my rent and a job that you know, I know
that you know I can do, and a job that
has people who I know I get along with that
I'm not really challenged by, you know. I think it
(19:18):
was just it was pure fear. But then it got
to Yeah, when that happened, I was like, well, this
is a really big lesson. What can I take from this?
What can I learn from this? And I learned a lot.
I learned that I was very capable, which I hadn't
really believed, and I think that was holding you back
(19:38):
as well, you know the whole The only reason that
you know, I'm accepted here in this role is because
I've been doing it for so long and it's kind
of set and forget and I'm not challenged, and if
I go somewhere else, I'll be found out that I
can't actually do it or I'm not good enough. So
pure fear, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I get that. When I think about myself in jobs
back in the day, back in the day when I
had bosses and real people in my world. I can
recall a couple of times where I have wanted to
move on. I've wanted to chase something new. I've been
and I've felt, and I remember saying it over and
(20:20):
over a bit, staying in that comfort zone, staying there,
and both times something had happened. I once was a redundancy,
Like things happen when I don't make a choice, and
the immediate response I have to forced change is elation, excitement,
(20:40):
and opportunity. I'm like, this is awesome, and I end
up with that particular time. I went home that Friday
after finding out that my job had been made redundant,
and by the Saturday, I'd been through an interview and
confirmed the next job. At lunchtime on Monday, I took
a lunch break from my new job to drive to
(21:00):
the old workplace and drop my keys back into them,
and I just remember thinking, this is like it was
every time. It's a reminder from whatever you want to
call it, the universe or the fucking or whatever whatever
woo woo term you want to cling to that goes hey,
life has got My life is life is telling me
(21:22):
if you know you need to make this change, get
off your ass, or I will make it for you
and it'll just be better if you do it.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah. Yeah, and that's what it felt like. So what
was it for you? You were it was just fear
as well.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I think that it is. I operate really choice,
it's choice and decisions. It's the what ifs. So same
thing happened in when COVID hit and my gym's got
shut down and I thought, shit, I'm out of this
could go real bad, I could end up bankrupt. I'm
not sure what's going to happen. I'm not lose everything
(21:58):
right now. This is this is completely out of my control.
There was absolute liberation. This whole podcast and Roll with
the Punches and brand and version of Tiff now all
came about because I was backed into a corner and
I went, Okay, cool, Well I'm going to pretend that
bankruptcy is inevitable. I'm going to pretend that the worst
(22:19):
case scenario is exactly what I'm facing and I'm just
going to live in that and so, and I don't
mean wallow in it. I mean from that point I went, well,
I'm not going to go out doing pts fucking two
clients a day or whatever the limit was that they
were RelA I'm not going to go out to earn
money because gee, I don't know if I'm going to
(22:41):
lose it all anyway. So I'm going to spend my
time building skills, networks, and a brand. And that's for
me that became podcasting. It was like, I love communication,
I love building relationships with people. They're things that I
want to get a lot better at and that focus
Now as that through, what's interesting is my relationship with
(23:04):
that realization. I still hold it. It still the story. I'm
still aware of it, but pulled I get pulled back
into that same comfort zone of like I remember a
point where I went, I feel less secure and more
fearful since I know I'm not gonna lose absolutely everything
and have to burn to the ground and sleep on
(23:25):
someone's couch. You know. It was like, Oh, when you've
got nothing to lose, you've got nothing to lose, You've
only got optimism. When you've hit the bottom, there's only
one way to go and it can only get better.
But when there's oh, this is okay and this is tolerable,
But what if I slip off the platform and end
up further away from here that I think that's what
(23:47):
terrifies is that's what even with even unconsciously, we just
end up clinging to the platform of okayness.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Al Right, absolutely, And isn't it interesting that they're so
many people that have hope streams ambitions, but I held
back by fear and I was I was listening to
something this morning and it was another podcast where she
was talking about how she was taking her podcast on
tour and her team said, and she's like, I don't
(24:18):
know about taking things on tour, like, yeah, I'll talk
to people whatever, and they're like, no, no, you actually
have to perform. So I don't know how to perform. Well, learn,
absolutely learn, and just if you're worried, if you're scared,
you do it anyway, and even more so, do it
in a really big way. So don't just aim for
(24:38):
I'm going to get through it. Aim for I'm going
to smash it. And you know, it had this kind
of real, you know, American hype to it, and it's like, well,
but maybe that there's something to that, like the whole
idea of a lot of people don't do anything until
they're pushed, But then maybe it's a way of pushing
yourself by saying, you know, I'm scared of something, whether
(25:02):
it's like I know, for me, it's public speaking, so
it's like, well, would I then say to myself, well,
don't just get through it, turn it into a performance
and really, you know, hit it out of the park.
I don't know. It's it's an interesting concept of how
you embrace things when you're forced to.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
I'm I'm doing a program at the moment around a
bround speaking, so I'm learning heaps heaps of things that
I didn't know I needed to learn or didn't know
there was to learn, which is really awesome. But also
there's aspects of it that I have to park current
tip and the way I do things and the way
(25:45):
I'm comfortable and go. It doesn't matter, you know, that
idea of practicing specific delivery of content or scripting to
start with, so you can hone the way that you
make impact with your words. And I hate that because
because it feels performative and disingenuous for the way that
(26:06):
I do things. But in the middle of this course,
it's like, Okay, this is just an experience that is
going to teach you something. It doesn't mean you change
the template of who you are when you move forward
and are speaking. But it's an exercise. Yeah, it's really
for me. It's been a very a friction point.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, because how much do you actually script versus how
much do you just go with because you've mentally prepared
for something.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, So I don't script at all, but I do
a lot of preparation in terms of I guess understanding
that the chunks of Okay, I'm going to share this experience,
this experience, and I'm going to highlight this, this and this,
so I have a similar flow. But so out of
(27:03):
the scripting, I'm learning parts of it that are really
important in terms of how people grasp messages, how we
speak into people with different learning styles, to us, all
of those small things that aren't in my consciousness currently.
(27:26):
But also a bloody hate the scripting. I hate reading it.
But the great thing is so when we was in
I feel like I've told this story on a recent podcast,
but it's only a couple of minutes. Sorry everybody. When
I was in Queensland for the Business of Speaking conference
held by the same chick Jacqueline Brooker, shout out to you.
You're awesome. Up there, they announced this story Slam competition,
(27:50):
So long story short, they announced it and then the
next you had that night to enter it with one
hundred character bloody tagline of what you're going to talk about.
Everyone got to vote, and the next night, with two
hours notice, six people were picked and at dinner we
got to do this story slam and you had three minutes.
What was awesome about that is a I want it
(28:10):
so go me. That's always gonna be awesome. I want
a solid chocolate microphone, just saying what a great prize.
But what it showed me was I'd used one of
the stories that I'd selected to talk about, and I'd
written that down and I hadn't re read it or anything.
I just I'd written a five minute version of that
(28:33):
in my head in my hotel, and all, I'll tell
that story. That's funny, picked the way I was going
to describe it, and then I ran through it a
couple of times just to see what the timing was like.
And I got it down and I didn't think about
what didn't need to script it. So it was like, Okay,
this whole process works because I know how to cut
out all the minutia and bullshit that doesn't need to
be said, and I know how to like it all landed.
(28:55):
I landed in the same place as my usual style
and riffing, but I have more clarity on Yeah, what's
what's going in and what's being left out and how
to hold people's attention to what actually matters. Plus you
know what I'm like, mate, I am off on a tangent,
and then by the time I finish that tangent, I'm like, hey,
(29:17):
everyone listening, what was I talking about before I decided
that would be important to talk about? Like, I lose
my train of thought and this will this will mean
that there's none of that, There's no fucking tiff on
a tangent and a little bit, but I'll know where
to come back to.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, that's it's fascinating. Do you get scared or nervous
or anything when you get up and things like that?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Shit? Yeah, I'm a shocker before, especially in the lead
up to events, in the lead up, in the preparation,
I am utterly hideous. Poor Harps. Whilst I'm doing this
course gets so many calls about how I hate learning,
and I just want a rant because this is the
shittest process ever caught up with this morning because I
was like, I need a body double. I need you
(30:05):
to sit with me in my thoughts, with me and
just get some clarity because I am I am just
making a mess of everything in my head.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
That's fit nice. So just that I need a body
double to sit in my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
It's a thing that I'm realizing is a thing for me.
And so we've got little mastermind groups within the course
we're doing, which is awesome. So I go, I need
someone to sit with me, because then I talk and
we both make sense and I get clarity. But when
I'm by myself, it's like a fucking kitten plane with
(30:39):
a ball of wool. I'm like, whoa, oh, this is
all tangled. Now, what a mess?
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Absolutely, How do you go telling the dude that's doing
the PhD that you don't like learning?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
He laughs, he laughs. I think he loves it, because
you know, he's he's it's not loving the academic process
in terms of that part of it. You know, he
loves the learning and the information and learning new things.
But I think there's that part of academia which is
very like me. It's the sitting still and doing things.
(31:15):
It's the things that challenge me in this program. Hey,
I'm going to teach you a method and a structure
and a thing, and this is how we're going to
do it. And it's a new way of thinking and creation.
And I'm like, I don't do all that. I don't
know what you mean. So when it's when I'm being
invokes like that, I'm like, I just tell me the
fucking answer. Just tell me answer, or give me something
(31:37):
that looks like so I can reverse engineer. I don't
like the process. Sometimes I get lost in the process.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that. It's like it's so
I've been to UNI twice and was it I mean,
was it an enjoyable experience? The second time was enjoyable.
The first time I was like, I was such a baby,
Like I didn't I think I've got one friend from
the time that I was there because I was just
so painfully shy, so any kind of presentation was like
(32:09):
I would rather like eat my own arm than speak
in front of a group of people. And then the
second time, like I've got to I still have very
close friends from that experience, but it's a fear now
to go back to UNI and study more. So I
look at things like just different courses and whatever, and
(32:31):
it's literally like a panic dream for me. Like I
will have dreams that I'm back at UNI, and I
wake up going, what the fuck was that? Do I
have to go back to like lectures and tutorials and
group projects and oh my god?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
So fear? What's the fear about?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Good question? I think it's just the repetition, Like it
feels like kind of like the mouse on the wheel,
and it's like it gave me the skills and the
freedom to do what I do now. So I studied
a wide variety of things and now with my current role,
they all come under that umbrella, which is fantastic. So
(33:08):
to think of going back to it, like, yeah, maybe
it'd be different now because I am looking at you know, well,
how can I upskill and learn a bit more about
you know, X y Z. But yeah, for a very
long time it will be like, what, I don't want
to be back here, And maybe, you know, to get
more philosophical about it, maybe it's not wanting to go
back to that version of me that I associate with
(33:29):
that time. That's probably more of it.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
When you when you say upskilling, what do you What
do you want? Do you want to know more about
a particular way or place? Do you want to progress
in terms of your career development? What is upskilling for you?
I prefer fuck have a listening to me mash two
words together. Is it personal, more personal, more professional? Or both?
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Both? Absolutely? Both? So I feel like I have done
a lot of personal development, but at the same time
that is lifelong, Like I think it needs to be lifelong.
If you get to a point where you say, you know,
I've learned enough, I think I'm pretty good. That's it.
I'm done. I'm going to coast until you know, the
(34:19):
day that I head off, No, I think. I like
my personal belief is that you need to keep learning,
you need to keep challenging yourself in that way, and
the same professionally, Like I think because it has been
such a comfort zone for me, and I am back
in that you know, organization that I, you know, was
(34:40):
kind of desperate to leave, to be able to bring
the best of myself and my abilities and capabilities. I
feel like that's the right thing to do. And also
like I find it quite interesting to learn, you know well,
for instance, like part of my job is social media,
(35:01):
So why is it that some people relate to that
post as opposed to that post? And then how do
you how do you measure that? How do I go
to somebody and say, I know that this worked because
there's this information that says so so I like, I
like just knowing.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
If you if there was anything holding you back, hypothetically,
what is it?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Oh myself? Absolutely tell me more still fear. I mean,
you know, I said it to Craig like it took
me ages to even say hello to him, and then
even with you, like I think I reached out to
you at a time where I'd received a promotion at
(35:47):
work and I thought, well, I'm stepping into a new space.
I need to push myself a bit further and challenge
myself and learn a few new things in order to
really perform at that level. And that's when you and
I started talking. But I still, like, will constantly have
moments of you know, there's you do all of this work,
(36:09):
and then suddenly you have a day where the world
can go and fuck itself, and you know, every second
word that comes out of your mouth is just an
f bomb because everything sucks and you feel like shit
and then I don't know, it just it makes you go, oh, okay,
there's still some work to do, but yeah probably yeah myself.
(36:30):
So there's still fear of the unknown. There's still fear
of what if that doesn't work, what if I'm not liked,
what if it doesn't land properly? Yeah, absolute fear.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Do you think given that so lots of mindset stuff,
there are lots of awareness, do you think that there's
more leverage for you in if you were to learn
to change that or to accept that about you're thinking.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Probably accepting changing it. I don't know that it be
square peg round whole kind of scenario. I think because
it's fairly ingrained in who I am, so I think
it's more accepting. And you know, I think when I
say that, you know, the forties for me have been
(37:30):
pretty good. There's been a lot of accepting around who
I am, how I am, and that I am extremely
hard on myself. So it's that I don't know, it's
a weird dichotomy, I think because there's self awareness and
(37:50):
then there's also bringing in that like huge amount of
self criticism and they kind of they meet somewhere and clash.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
And what do you think self accept What do you
think acceptance looks, feels, and sounds like, Because some people
listen to that and go, oh, so you're just going
to accept that you feel that you've you think ship
things about yourself or your heart on yourself, and that
doesn't feel like it's a it's going to get you anywhere.
So for you, what is what does acceptance alleviate?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
I think it's so probably recently and in particularly doing
these podcasts right like I really enjoy them, Like I
have so much fun there. It's I'm so curious about
people and just want to know more and have these
really you know, deep conversations. And I've been told you're
(38:49):
really good at it. You know, you sound good, you
say really interesting things, you ask good questions, and I'm like, ah, okay, yep.
And I think it's just having grown up in a
way where I was told probably a lot of really
negative things about myself. You know, you can't, you never will,
(39:12):
you won't be, You're not good enough. That's the kind
of self belief that you start to have and so
when and that's probably where the all of the you know,
self criticism and negative thoughts come from. It's just that
reinforcement of all of that, and when you get to
a point where people are saying good things about you,
(39:33):
it's like, oh, no, I can't believe that, because that's
you know, it's going to make me sound like, you know,
I've got my head up my ass and you know,
I believe my own shit. So I think it's I
think it's accepting the good things that would be a
huge change m for reasons.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. I was just thinking about
the language we use and the words and like brainstorming
as you were speaking, and like, I wonder if it's
more understanding or having like accepting from the point of observation,
It's like, I have a tendency. It's a tendency rather
than a personality trait. I've got a tendency to go
(40:16):
to this place. I've got a tendency to have moments
where I feel this, this, and this and go back
to these thoughts and be curious and understanding, but not
fight it and not be angry and self critical about
the fact that we go to that place at times.
(40:37):
So I think rather than just accepting and going well,
I'm just a person who is hard on myself and
thinks I'm shit, and I don't want to I don't
want to change that because I don't want to be
one of those you know, tall poppy like, I don't
want people to think I'm good. So I'm better off
thinking that I'm shit, which you're not. And plus, for
(40:59):
everybody like you are so incredibly capable and so incredibly
good at what you do, and so your interpersonal skills
and your professional skills and everything that you've freaked out
about and then gone and done is phenomenal. So it's
like for people listening that would relate to how you
(41:24):
feel and sometimes see yourself. You're a real high achiever.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Thanks, Yeah, it's yeah. It's an interesting one, even just
being able to say thanks instead of like, ah, yeah,
all right, how's the weather. Yeah, you know it's I
think it's changing those really ingrained thought processes. And even
(41:50):
in saying that I've done a lot of work, you're right, Like,
it's looking at something and viewing it as the almost
it's just an experience that you're having in that moment.
It's not part of you. And this was a really
good reframe of anxiety for me that a lot of
people will say, well, I have anxiety. No, you need
(42:11):
to reframe it in the way that you experience anxiety.
It's not a defining part of you. It's not within you.
It's just something that you experience from time to time,
and it can be you know, maybe one day it's
out of ten, maybe one day it's at a two.
But it's not who you are. So yeah, I mean
(42:33):
this is really this really has turned into a free
coaching session, hasn't it. It's great.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
It's what happens when you put two curious cats together
to talk about life.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
No, it.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Really is an interesting way of thinking about it that
you're observing things that are happening in your life that
potentially aren't you know, good experiences. But it's just an experience.
It's not defining.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah. Yeah, I always I postponder a lot. I have
for a while of long while now, and especially as
you know, with the energy shifts and para metopause and this,
you know, having to change the way I do things
and approach life and my sense of self especially. So
I have always had this fascination with how do we
(43:25):
perceive life, truth, reality us? And when I could because
you know, nearly a thousand conversations on this show, and
a lot of them conflict with each other. For example,
like one of the most easy to talk about is
doctor Mindi Pel's came on the show talked about female fasting.
At that time, I was like, this is amazing. I've
(43:46):
never heard anyone speak about this like this. This is fascinating.
I loved fasting, so I was balls deep in it yea.
And over the years I was like, I started to
come to a point where I'm like, maybe this is
burning me out. I don't know if it is. Then
I found doctor Stacy Simms Pole are opposite conversation there,
and I was like, she's the fucking guru. Actually that
(44:07):
lands about it. So we have to make choices. And
that happens with whether we're talking about diet or psychology
or trauma or healing or what's the answer to everything,
because we're all searching for answers. And I have this
philosophy that we I go, well, what do I believe?
And if I choose to believe that, what effect does
(44:27):
it have on myself, my life, my choices, my relationships,
and my decisions. And I think we have to do
that with our beliefs, like what does it mean if
I believe in this type of strategy or a type
of therapy. And it's hard because we put ourselves in
(44:49):
boxes of I believe this and not that I believe
in acupuncture and not fucking something else, or I believe
in energy healing or I don't, And then you know, like, yeah,
I think because it gives us control, it gives us answers,
it connects us to different people with different energy. So
(45:11):
I think that our beliefs have a lot more impact
on us in ways that we don't recognize. We might
think it's the thing, Oh, it's the needles this bloke
sticking end to me. It might be his energy field
and frequency and just being in someone's room for an
hour listening to the words that he says whilst it
does a therapy might be eighty percent of the fucking
therapy itself.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Could be interesting what you were just saying. Then it's yeah,
what you believe, like you kind of what's the there's
some quote, there's a quote that's kind of like it'll
come to me. But what I thought then was how
much of it in terms of your beliefs? And you know,
so this is how I am. So this is what
(45:53):
I do. How much of your beliefs then become self limiting,
which is quite interesting in contrast. Right, so you're saying, well,
you know, I believe in X, Y and Z, and
I remember listening to the ones about fasting and I'm like,
that's great, Like I'm fasting at the moment, so this
is really right. But yeah, there'd be that slump of
oh my god, I could curl up like a cat
(46:13):
and go to sleep, like this is ridiculous. And then
same with doctor Stacy, like she's an absolute gun and
I'm like, that's it. I'm having my protein before I
go to the gym in the morning. It's you know,
I'm going to be absolutely ripped. And then I'm like,
I could actually spew at the gym because I feel
like I've got so much fuel in my body. Like
it didn't work for me. Yeah, it's interesting your beliefs
(46:40):
and how they guide you. And this is probably one
of the biggest reasons why I started listening to Craig.
Like there were a few episodes that I heard, and
then I think there was one that he did on
his own and it was about living in alignment and
echo chambers, and I was like it was the first
time that I'd heard any thing like that, and I
(47:01):
was like, holy crap, this just makes so much sense,
Like you have to Yeah, you the importance of doing
what you say you're going to do, and that's that's
probably a very firm belief of mine.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
One of the quotes that I've re shared several times
and think about a lot lately, a lot in the
last couple of years. I think just because I've had
to I've had to change a lot of how I
do things that I observe it that way. And it
was the quote around if you followed me around for
a week, would you be able to guess my goals?
(47:43):
Or however it's worded like if someone followed you around
for a week, would they be able to tell you
what your goals are? And I think it's the most
like confronting way for self honesty because if they can't,
then you don't even need to say you know that
you are not acting in alignment.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Wow. I think at the moment, people would think that
I wanted to be like a TikTok superstar because that's
that's where I'm spending my time mostly, Like have you
been down a TikTok rabbit hole like the gym girls
on there are nuts.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
I haven't, actually, like I go on Instagram real rabbit
holes all the time, and I've had a little bit
of a tinker with TikTok here and there, but i
haven't not too much of the one part of the
doom scrolling world that I've kept myself a little bit
safe from.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
See I had, and then my niece said that she
had TikTok and I was like, well, protective art mode engaged.
I need to see what it is you're doing and
what you're looking at and make sure that you know
no one's trying to talk to you. And so now
like I'm like, great, yeah, thanks, thanks for that. Glad
(48:58):
that I'm on TikTok because of you.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
I love somebody. One of my friends sent me a
reel the other day. Oh no, they had looked at
a real and they'd sent it to their friends because
it was about ADHD and defiance and it was very funny.
And then they looked at that account again and then
they sent me a screenshot. They said, is this your Courtney?
My best mate Courtney lives in Perth, and I talked
(49:25):
about her a lot, yeah, and they didn't know them
and they were like, is that her? And I'm like,
that is my Courtney. I love how people are like oh,
and the amount of times people friends of mine will
send me one of Craig's quotes and I'm like, you know,
that's that's Craig. You know that's Craig's kept like they
(49:45):
might follow it, but people have sent reels and then
they'll send it to me and I'm like, yeah, I know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
My friends, yeah, some of my friends are now starting
to follow him as well, and they'll send it to
me and I'm like, this is what I've been banging
on about for so long and they're like, oh, it's him,
is it? That's him? And generally, and this is the
very surprising thing, guarantee, it's the super sweary ones that
they said to me. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, all those
(50:14):
dark horses that butter wouldn't melt as soon as the
sea bombs flying around. They're like calib like.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
This said a lot about you, kel.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Well yeah, yeah, it does does.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Well. This has been super fun and you'll have to
come back on for another chat because I reckon we
could talk for hours.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
We can get to the we didn't get to the
topic that we had.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Said written in front of me, but then we got
so close to time that I was like, I don't
want to start it and have to cut it short.
And I've got it. I've got another meeting like now.
So I guess that's your official invitation back.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Excellent, look at me just worming my way in everywhere? Great.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Do you want to share anything with anyone? Do you
want to send them anywhere to reach out or follow
you or hear your podcast anywhere?
Speaker 1 (51:10):
No? I think I'm just enjoying being part of everyone
else as well as at the moment. So yeah, maybe
when I come back, if people want to know more
than we can share them. But I'll shy away from
the ego and the tall poppy that we mentioned earlier.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
All right, we'll do that then. Hey, thanks, thanks for
coming along, Thanks for the chat.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Your race, Oh, thank you your race as well.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
Thanks everyone, she said, it's now never I got fighting
in my blood to
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.