March 16, 2025 • 41 mins
Alright, legends, this one’s a ripper. Harps and I go deep on the self-doubt that creeps in even when you’re nailing it, why we sabotage ourselves over the smallest things, and the mental gymnastics of stepping up to the next level. We also talk about those magic moments that remind us we’re actually not crap… even if it takes 700 people in an audience to convince us.
Plus, I introduce Harps to a website that might just replace doom-scrolling with polar bears and puppies (ya welcome).
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Gay Team. Welcome back to the show. This is Role
with the Punches podcast and I'm sharing with you today
an episode with Craig Harper where we're talking about self doubt,
self doubt and self sabotage, and that in a critic
of ours and the mental gymnastics that unfold within us
(00:22):
when we are aiming to step up to the next level.
Maybe you relate to that, If not, enjoy listening to us,
because I certainly relate to it. Nobody wants to go
to court and don'te My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
(00:43):
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
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(01:03):
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot AU.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh goot a champce. It's it's Jumbo and it's Cookie,
It's the Bloody You Project, It's us. It's you again
for the millionth time. It's thirtieth of January. As we
record this. It's two oh three in the RB. I
don't know why I do that.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I do.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Do you know why I do that? Tip? It's the
U project, like Station I D time Check. Yeah, I
can tell everybody that's currently it's twenty one degrees in
our city by the bay here in Hampton over there
in Port Melbourne. Where is that where you live?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
What do you?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Thank God? So I don't know, you'll not know. I
don't know what Elwood, Elwood? What's the temp in Elwood
right now?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I've got no idea.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I've got a statement.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I haven't worked for se N for a million years
like you, so I don't. I don't slip into time
check mode.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You know that's what we need. Station ID time check,
weather check and after the break coming up up on
the other side of this, we've got the news and
Tip Cook's coming into the studio to talk to us about,
you know, all things buddy health and wellness more on
Melbourne's Homosport next.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, I've just been doing a version of this, which irritates.
I mean, when I record a bunch of my intros
to my show, I kind of do all editing and
then I have intro recording moment, and they all said,
and I'm like, it irritates me because I do the
same thing we were in. It's the same. I'm like, oh, spew.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Isn't it Isn't it funny? How like with this right
where there's no well for me or you, there's no
pressure for maybe somebody else doing something like this, there
might be pressure or proceed pressure. But when you've got
to do like give me something where I've got to
talk for now, no problem. Give me something where I've
got to talk for thirty seconds, I fuck it up
(02:53):
thirteen times in a row. Yes, you know where you go.
You know, let's say I've I've got to do an
intro for a pre recorded whatever, and I'll go, all right,
here we go, all right, all right? Can I tell you? Oh? Fuck?
And then you know it's like that, you know, like
(03:14):
I was going to do I was going to do
a podcast the other day on a particular topic. I
know the topic. Well, I fucked it up literally about
I don't know seven times. And then I crack the shit.
So I threw the glow mesh in the shag pole,
I threw the dumby out fucking window, threw all the
toys out of the fucking cot and I went, fuck
that title, I'm not doing it. You can all get
(03:36):
rooted and the world clearly doesn't need to hear that shit.
Fuck it, And then I sucked.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You know what's funny though, I love I actually selfishly
love hearing this because the times when we've done like
a double episode and you have to record an intro
and you do it in front of me when I'm
on the screen, you can just go bup and pop
it out and it's brilliant, and I'm like, how does
he do that? So I love that when because I
do the same thing. When someone's not on the screen
(04:04):
with me, I can't do it, whereas if there are
people on the zoom screen, I can bang on about anything.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, I know, I know. It's it's funny how we
get in our own way. It's that it's that I did.
I did an episode speaking of such things. I did
an episode just before and I know this is not
where we're going today, but fuck it, who knows where
we'll go. We always talk. We just had a three
minute chat everyone about what we're going to talk about,
(04:31):
and then we then we proceed to talk about none
of that, but I did because I think this is relevant.
But I did a chat about you know, the difference
between what we think and what is real, like the
the the perception versus the data. You know, it's like
(04:56):
I feel or I think not like I'm not good enough,
but there's actually data and evidence to say, well, you
are good enough. You know, you're not the fucking best,
but you're good enough. Or I'm unlovable or whatever. Well, yeah,
I get it, you feel that, but people love you,
so you're not unlovable or do you know what I mean?
(05:17):
But despite the evidence, we can still believe stuff that
isn't true, so much so that we've even got real
world outcomes and data and evidence to say that, no,
you're not fucking useless. Yet in the middle of that knowledge,
we can still feel or even think or believe we're useless.
(05:39):
And it's like I'm sixty as fuck and it doesn't
go away, like it doesn't it just like the volume
goes down and I've done some great shit, like as in,
I've done really cool things in my life that I
never thought I would do, But the feeling of supreme
confidence just is there.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I feel like you were following my friend and I
this morning when we walked because I said this to
who I had the exact conversation where I said, you know,
and I've been thinking about it a lot and realizing
it all week in a really intense way, and I
just said, I just don't understand why in the middle
of not failing things right now, I feel like a failure.
(06:23):
And I know that that I don't understand what's going
on with this and what creates the intensity around it.
At times, it's like a puzzle.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, when you objectively, when I can look at what
you're doing objectively in terms of your career and your development,
you're learning whatever and go well, you are definitely at
the very least improving and growing and evolving at the
least right, But in the middle of that objective reality,
your subjective experiences, I'm dog shit.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, Like I feel like I feel like I know
there's growth in one direction, but I feel like there's
a decline twice as big in the other direction. And
it's such a funny experience.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, as Eckhart tool and many other spiritual teachers would
and you know, missus, I've got a rock in my
bra because I've been to Nepal and I had enlightenment.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I haven't been to Nepal.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Sorry India, Sorry India, but is finding that like being
aware of that without becoming that I'm aware of it.
I'm not. And I realize like I can think things
that a lies, like all that are not true. I
can even believe it's true while at being completely untrue.
(07:42):
You know, I'm not good good enough to I actually said,
and I'm probably sorry for repeating this everyone, but you
haven't heard it. Tiff. I remember like one of the events,
and we're going to do another event. We're going to
do a big U Project event at the Communiti this year. Everyone,
so batten down the fucking hatches starts because it's kind
of be super expensive. So sell a kidney and get ready.
(08:08):
Now it's not going to be expensive. But I remember,
you know this, self doubt this, I'm not good enough.
Who the fuck would want to listen to you or
read you or watch you? You know that's been ever present,
despite the fact that I know that some people do,
but I still feel like who would and why would they?
And even though I'm going okay at the moment, I'm
just lucky. It's just a phase. It's going to go.
(08:29):
But I remember one day at Deacon when we had
a room full, we had just under seven hundred people,
and I was just in the zone. I don't know why.
It's one of those days where it feels like it's
coming through you, not from you. It's like you're throwing
three pointers at the free throw line and every ball
is going in every basket without even touching the net.
(08:51):
It was like that, and everything was just working and
I kind of had this moment where I looked up
and I don't know if this is true, but like
there were seven hundred people in the palm of my hand,
just captivated by what was going on, and they were
just fully present and they were and what.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I was saying was landing, and there was connection and
there was tears and there was revelation and there's like
and I just had this moment where I went, fucking hell,
I'm not shit.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I'm not shit. This is Oh my god, I can
do this, you know, this is I'm not terrible, you know.
And I remember thinking, I don't. This is what I
thought to myself. I've had the few times in my life,
right and this was one of the maybe five times
in my life where I've gone, don't forget this moment.
(09:41):
This is an important moment for you. And I remember
it really clearly, and I remember at the end of
the day because it was you know, we have lots
of good days with those workshops and seminars and conferences
that we do, and You've been involved in lots of them.
But at the end of the day, everyone had gone
and just picking up some shits and Melissa comes up
(10:04):
to me and we were on the stage and the
last person had filter out of the filtered out of
the room, and she was just packing up her suitcase
with a myriad of things that she takes, and she
just looks at me and she goes, this is actually
what she said. She goes, what the fuck was that?
(10:25):
And I go, I don't know. I go, I don't know.
She goes, oh my god. It was like, you know,
when there's just something special that happens, you know, it
could be a one on one conversation with someone, Yeah,
and even on that day, Yeah, but I don't know.
That's the thing about connection and communication and being able to,
(10:49):
you know, be in the middle of something amazing with
people and creating.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
That experience winding back to that idea of the you know,
feeling one way about our reality when you know our
perception of it, do you reckon there's a relationship. I
wonder if there is to me, if there's a relationship
between hope and risk. Right, So, when when you're in
(11:14):
when you kind of perceive where you're at and you're
in this shit spot, there's only hope. There's only hope
because there's only one way. It's like, when I changed
to do the stuff I'm doing now, we were in
the middle of a pretty shitty situation where things will
look and grim, I'm like, well, it can't get worse
than this, So I'm I'm going to do something new
(11:34):
and brave and bold and wonderful, and the only place
to go is up. And then all of a sudden,
when you start to build on that and you get
a little bit better, a little bit better, you're not
at the bottom rung anymore, and it's like I could
also fall. There's lots of hope, there's all that hope
up there, and I'm closer to it, but also I
could fall from here.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Look, I think that's interesting because when
you well, there's only hope I'm like, well, there's definitely
hope if you're that way, and you can find that.
But I think there's also strategy. There's also great questions.
There's like, oh, well, I'm in a shit spot, all right,
So you just acknowledge I'm in a shit spot or
(12:17):
I fucked up, or I'm physically or mentally or financially
or professionally out of shape or got that's cool, all right.
Then what's one thing you can do today tif to
make some ground. What's one thing you can do. What's
one conversation, What's one decision, What's one action? But yeah,
(12:39):
and that I think that ability to be able to
feel like you're not good enough but still try. Yeah,
just go. Look, I don't know, I don't know. And
it's like, you know, you and I are similar in
that I don't think, well, I don't know. Maybe you're
(13:00):
way more naturally gifted than me. I'm not sure, but
I don't think you think and I definitely don't think.
I don't think either of us inherently think that we're
fucking geniuses, right, So we're probably similar in that. Yeah,
and I don't think either of us were inherently you know,
you're probably. Well, you're definitely more genetically and probably more
sporting in terms of being gifted than I was, you know,
(13:23):
but I think we're similar in that we both don't
think highly of ourselves or we didn't. Maybe we're getting
a bit of confidence and awareness now hopefully not arrogance,
but yeah, I think that being able to recognize maybe
I don't have great self belief, or maybe I don't
have heaps of talent, or maybe I might fuck up,
(13:47):
But definitely if I don't try, I'm never going to
grow learn evolved, that get better.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Like how did you when you got to a point
of like stepping up in it? Let's like, so, whether
be corporate work or speaking or any of that, when
it was time to level up and step into that
new paradigm, how did you? How did you do that?
Because that's when it bolsters me. Sometimes in the middle
(14:13):
of and when I say transaction, I don't mean a
financial transaction, but like maybe a conversation in exchange or
an opportunity or feedback on something. I notice internally that
almost the unworthiness or I'm not this or stuff comes
up or I go so how do you manage? Because
(14:35):
that's for me it's probably one of the biggest things
that I keep coming up against.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So for me, I have had to be willing to
fuck up and fail and get uncomfortable and look silly,
like if you can go, I'm probably going to get embarrassed.
That's okay, I'm probably gonna not do this. Well, that's okay.
I'm probably going to who make more mistakes than I'm
going to get things correct. In the early days, like
(15:06):
for me, it was I've told this story, but I'll
just briefly retell it. Like my first couple of speaking gigs.
I mean, that's that's really overselling what it was. But
I was talking to a group and I did get paid, right.
But so the first one was in at a timber
(15:26):
yard and it was in the staff room or the
lunch room talking to a bunch of blokes who didn't
give a fuck and you know, really weren't interested. But
the guy that owned the business, I was his trainer,
and he loved the shit I said, and he's like,
the shit that you tell me, my blokes need to
hear that shit. And I went and told them the
same shit, and clearly they weren't him, and they weren't interested.
(15:50):
But one or two guys. But in the middle of
that quite painful thirty minutes in the lunch room, there
were just one or two glimmers of connection and hope,
and it may be a smile or maybe a laugh
or and I just I just had this speaking of hope.
I just went ah, Like those little laughs or those
(16:10):
little moments of connection or those little tiny little winds,
they felt amazing. And I went oh and a few
times for the first year that I did stuff like that,
and I did probably seventy percent of what I did
in the first year was for free, and thirty percent
I got paid a dollar fifteen, right. But it was
(16:32):
in the middle of doing all of that and every
time coming away having done a three out of ten
or a two out of ten, or a four out
of ten, or sometimes when I was on fire, a five, right,
but being able to learn and see in my self
growth like I knew, I I like, I'm not good yet.
(16:53):
I know I'm not good, but I was terrible and
now I'm just less shit, right. So I'm it's like,
if you know you know, Brad, that you and I
both know jiu jitsu, Brad, Right, So if I go
and roll with Brad. If I do jiu jitsu with Brad,
I know that Brad could kill me seventeen different ways
(17:16):
in sixty seconds and I couldn't do anything about it. So,
and he's a he owns in a cab jiu jitsu academy.
He's very experienced, is very good. He's one of the
best probably in Australia in terms of in that, you know.
And so, but my job is not to go and
beat Brad. My job is to go in and go right, well,
Brad's great at this, I'm shit at this, and to
(17:39):
work at getting better, not at work at beating at
Brad or being as good as Brad, but going well, Craig,
you're a You're not even a one out of ten.
He's a nine. So you're a you're a half out
of ten. And so yeah, for me, it's just about that,
you know, It's just about going well. I've just got
to work at being better. And maybe down the track,
(18:02):
I don't know, maybe I'll have a podcast that thousands
of people listen to, or maybe I'll write a book
and someone will buy it, you know, Or maybe I'll
write a few books, or maybe I'll do a talk
and I'll be fucking terrible, but maybe one day seven
hundred people will pay to listen to me and I'll
be great. Who knows, well, you know, it's that I've.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Been doing some work with a friend of mine. He's
a speaker also, and we were just following some processes
that from some of his coaches and that he does,
so he's walking me through. It's about idea generation and
content and just really valuable stuff, a way of thinking.
Like my brain hurt when he introduced me to this stuff.
(18:44):
And after the first we did a co working day together.
Then that night I messaged him and said, hey, with love,
fuck you because yesterday I was a speaker and I
knew what my message was and I knew what I
spoke about. And right now I feel like dogshit that
(19:05):
doesn't know anything and can't even articulate to you in
an empty room what I'm talking about, because it was
introduced to this entirely new level of a way of
thinking and understanding things that just wasn't familiar to me. Yeah,
and that that was so confronting.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
What did you Okay? So what was the how long
ago is that?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Oh? Couple of weeks?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
So what do you know now like you felt shit
straight away? What do you know now and what have
you adapted and what do you think now about that?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
So I think that I realized that I I'm great
at telling stories, but I'm not great at articulating what
my point is before being like, I'm great if you,
but if a company comes to me and goes, we
want to talk about this, this is our what we
(20:01):
want to get across. I'm awesome at going through my
mental filing cabinet and nailing that. I'm not great at
someone going what do you talk about? What do you
want to come and tell my company? I'm like, oh,
And then in the trying to pull that out of
my head, it's like the messy fucking sock draw. It's everywhere,
and my brain goes from I can't categorize cleanly and
(20:24):
clearly and create flow with my points. And I know
I do it on the fly, but I just feel
like there's value in understanding that if I want to
be able to portray what I do when I have
opportunities to connect with people and companies.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, well, yeah, that is interesting. I think we can
complicate it right. Yesterday I spent half a day with
I haven't said this shit, have I? Maybe I said
that the kids from Lara Secondary College, right, great, your
twelve kids, amazing, we did it at Ballaratt Uni. And
(21:07):
whether or not I'm talking to you know, elite sporting team,
which I do, or I'm talking to a company like
a corporate space, you know, in a fancy fucking conference center,
or I'm talking of blokes on a construction site, or
I'm talking as seventeen year olds at a school or
at a university.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
It was.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
The common thread is that you're trying to help them
think better, do better, be better, create better outcomes. Right,
And so I reckon you can distill it down to
a ten twenty second elevate a pitch as they call it,
which you can then build on. So when someone goes
to me, what do you do and they're really asking
(21:52):
what my job is? I go, I help people change stuff.
The end it's like, I don't know what that is.
You know has seven words or six words? I help
people change stuff five words, right, And they're like, what
is what? What stuff? I go lots of stuff, you know,
I go head stuff, mine stuff, life, lifestyle, habits, behaviors,
you know, thinking outcomes results. Oh what how do you
(22:15):
do that? And I go, well, you know, I'm an
excise scientist. I'm doing my doctorate in the mind PhD
in you know, psychology. So we think about all the
human stuff, you know, like the thing we have in
common is we all want to succeed, we all want
to be healthy, we all want to be happy. And
so we opened that door. And oh and then so
just by going I help people change stuff, you know,
(22:38):
then people go generally almost everyone says what people, what stuff?
I go, all people, all stuff. You know. It's like,
at least open the door, Like, here's what we know.
Doesn't matter what environment or what person or what situation,
Nobody in front of you wants to be less happy.
Nobody in the room wants to be less healthy, Nobody
(22:59):
in the room wants to be more of a failure,
nobody wants to be more fearful. Right, and so it's
like I think, once you try and over talk it
or over explain it, you you do yourself a disservice,
you know. So I tend to go, oh, look, I
(23:20):
work with teams and athletes and companies and individuals about
just helping them create better outcomes in their world the end,
you know, or whatever. Because invariably there's a question, nobody
goes ah and walks away. They go cool, thanks by,
like they don't do that. I've never had that done.
(23:41):
So what I do is if I go, oh, well,
thanks for asking. Well, actually I do a range of things.
I'm an author, I'm you know. Then people are shut up,
like I'm always like undersell over deliver. Just open the door,
say something a bit interesting but also authentic. Open the
door a bit, and then let them come through and
ask you stuff if you want. But I mean, the
(24:03):
nutshell of what you do is the same. Your job
is to help people perform better whatever people, and whatever
perform means better habits, better thinking, better decisions, better operating systems,
better protocols, better lifestyle. You know, it's all the same stuff,
right even you know, it's like, I'm not a corporate
(24:25):
guru at all, but I work successfully in the corporate space.
But I've never ever been corporate myself, Like I've never
been a corporate employee ever in my life. Yet I
can go into the corporate space and thrive because everyone
in the corporate space is a human and I'm pretty
(24:48):
good with humans. You know, so, yeah, but I think
over time, I don't know if this is very podcasting
what I'm saying, but fuck it, I feel like it's
just you and me. I'm coaching you. But I think
over time you're going to get more succinct and more clear,
and you know, it's just going to become more where,
(25:08):
more and more, as you get more experienced and more
confident and more competent, it's going to be not that
you are in any way choreographed or you know, you're
more person than persona, but as you do more and
more my experiences anyway, for me, you just it's almost
(25:29):
just like you're having a conversation, but really, you know,
really like yesterday, sorry you go, well, I.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Say what I've really what I like and am drawn
to about this process of working with Mike is the
research and the deep dive into what are my thoughts?
Where does this come from? What is the research like
stuff that I like? Where have I drawn this from?
(25:58):
And because I'm leave, I want yeah, I want to
leave people with all of the directions I've looked in
so they can go and look there too, like real
clarity around I think just even the idea of It's
made me go back and read books I've read before
on specific topics and bring to mind get real clarity
(26:20):
on why I've landed where I've landed with all of
this stuff, and what is the research and other people
who talk about it, what are the things that I've
agreed with and disagreed with, and how can I talk
about that to a room because that's all relevant, Like
all of it's all of the stuff that's my stuff
is just a decision that's built on stuff that I
(26:42):
have agreed with and disagreed with and maybe changed my
mind about over time. So I've loved the process of
going back to that and playing there, but it's just
left me in a bit of a whirlwind of oh,
I'm not used to thinking in this one, being used
to think in a different way. And I know I
(27:03):
use my brain a lot in what I do, but
like it physically hurt. I was physically at home going
My brain hurts. It feels like I've done a workout
with my head.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
That's funny, Yeah, funny. Can I tell you a little secret.
Your brain can't hurt because there's no pain receptors in it.
But anyway, you're welcome that's ten dollars. I'll send you
the bill.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
You're doing a PhD. You wouldn't have been able to
film with that.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
But what what I was going to say to you
is what I think is something of a relief for
all speakers, is you're not the answer, like TIF Cook,
not the answer Tiff Cook. I can call you a
(27:50):
chick because you call yourself a chick, So please don't
send me an email. Everyone TIF calls herself that you're
a chick. On the stage in front of a bunch
of other people sharing thoughts and ideas and stories, some
of them are going to land, some of them are
going to connect. Some people are going to be fucking inspired.
Some people are going to be looking at their Facebook
while you're talking. Some people are going to walk away
and go, she's a gun. That was the best thing
(28:11):
I've ever fucking heard. And a few people are going, ah, right,
that's what we do. You go in there and you go,
I'm going to tell you some stuff that I think,
some experiences I've had, some insights I've gained, maybe a
story or two, and then I'm going to explain why
I'm telling you all that, And then you're going to
maybe do something with it or not right. And so
(28:35):
it's not like I never you know, I would never
tell someone how to think, but I would talk about thinking.
I would talk about metacognition and you know, metaperception, all
of that. I would never tell someone what they should eat,
but I would talk about nutrition. You know, I would
never tell someone what would be the best job, but
I could talk about the psychology of work and fulfillment
(28:58):
and connection and purpose and what tends to work for
some people in terms of you know, thriving not surviving
in work for forty years and you know, so you
can talk about things without directing people, because there's some
stuff that we know. Like I think we can safely
say that if you have a job where you feel
(29:22):
like it's meaningful and you have purpose and you have
connection with other people and you feel like you're doing
good and growing and evolving, and well, there's a fair
chance you're going to like that job. But if you
get paid a million bucks a year, and I know
some people who think it wouldn't matter what it was,
I would fucking love it. You wouldn't love it, Like
I mean, if you had a job where you've got
(29:44):
a million bucks a year, twenty grand a week, but
you fucking hated every moment of it. Guess what your
life is not. That's not success, that's not joy, that's
just income. And so you know, I think there are
these things that are broadly relevant, if not one hundred
(30:04):
percent applicable all of the time. But as I said
to these kids yesterday, they're seventeen. Yesterday was day one
of year twelve, I'm like, what a fucking exciting time
it is for you, you know? And I said, here's
the thing. You know, there's no optimal career. There's no
optimal plan, but there's there's the best plan for you, though,
(30:29):
but your best plan will be the worst plan for
the person next to you, and the career that blows
your socks off. I'm like, how many of you want
to be an influencer? Right? And of course no, not
all the hands. I thought it would be everybody, but
a few hands went up, you know, and you go cool.
So for some of you, maybe that's what you should
or could do. For maybe you'll be an architect. For
(30:51):
some of you, maybe you'll be a world famous chef,
or maybe you'll be none of that. Maybe you'll buy
a truck and you'll have a truck driving business and
you'll transport stuff around that who knows, it doesn't matter,
but it's trying to find this, you know, like what's
going to work for tif cook won't work for the
next person. And you know, it's like I say that
people don't don't do what I do because most people
(31:13):
would hate it because I don't actually have a job
or predictability, or I don't have a set wage. I
don't have you know, I don't have holiday pay, I
don't have sick pay. I don't have much security in
that sense, or predictability or certainty. Most people would hate
what I do because it's extremely financially vulnerable, you know.
But I thrive in that. But most people don't.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, And there's so much there's sacrifice in every aspect
of what we do in life, like because I've been
thinking about it, you know, I think about that a lot.
I could not fathom the idea of nine to five
again with someone else owning my time, me having no autonomy,
but also or love someone to pay me sup for
(32:00):
an holiday pay. I'd love to be able to leave
the job at work at five pm and turn my
head off like there's and you go, well, you get
a choice of what you are willing to pay for that,
and you get to pay it. Like because seven days
a week, any time of the day, I can go
and walk my dog at my will any day I could,
(32:23):
I couldn't theoretically just do whatever the fuck I want.
And that's the price I pay. Is well, that you
can do that, you also got to fucking make enough
money to pay yourself in super so you can eat
when you're sixty.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But I don't even think it's a price.
I think it's the joy you get. I'm like, for me,
there's like it's not even none of me feels like
I'm missing out on what I feel like that. I'm like,
I feel like I've been cheating for forty years. I
feel like the fucking kid who got away with the cake, right,
I'm like, just I'm the fat kid in the corner
(32:59):
with a fucking chocolate cake and I'm just getting away
with it, you know, Like my mum, I reckon my
mum for about the first twenty years is like, what
the fuck do you actually do? You don't have a job,
you know. She didn't like even when I owned like
a proper business, gyms and stuff. To me, that was
(33:22):
a fucking scam. Like if I didn't own a gym,
I'd be in a gym two hours a day anyway.
And now I could just be in the place I
want to be in and people give me money, and
nothing that I do feels like a job. I'm around
people who are happy, people who are getting in shape,
people who are having good conversations, people who get excited
to come to see you, people get excited to come
(33:45):
to the place that you work at, and it's just
this fucking massive kind of amazing energy. And you're like, yeah,
this is not a job, this is a scam, and
I'm in the middle of this scam I'm making do
fucking don't tell anyone. I hope it doesn't catch on.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, yeah it did.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Personal training court on well fuger, Oh well, oh well,
you know, but that's that. I think. It's just you know,
I was talking to these kids yesterday. Did you see
the picture I put up of that young kid? No, well,
go to my instagram right now. I know this is
(34:26):
not very good. Go to my Instagram and have a
look at the photo of that kid. And I now
if you want to see this kid. Everyone, his name's Declan.
Just turned seventeen, day one of year twelve yesterday. Now
I'm not I'm not tiny. I'm five ten and I'm
eighty six kilos.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Just above his like your your head comes up to
his mouth, your head comes up to his lips.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, I look like I'm fucking four foot seven and
fifty two kilos and I'm five ten and eighty five
or six kilos. And I don't think he would mind
me telling you because dudes don't care. And he said
to me, and he's in good shape. Right, So he's
(35:20):
six five and one hundred and thirty kilos and he's
in good shape, like he's an athletic six five one
thirty one.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Thing when I hear stats like that, the first thing
I think is wow, I managine how much boony gets
to eat.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Anyway, back back to what I you know, Like, the
thing is, I was trying to emphasize to those kids,
like you can pretty much do whatever you want, Like
I know there are limitations, but don't do what mum
or dad necessary.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Like if what mum and dad want you to do
is also what you want to do, well, cool, but
don't become a fucking doctor because Mum and dad want
you to become a doctor. Become a doctor because that's
what you want. Become a truck driver or a train driver,
or a personal trainer, or a fucking artist or a
street performer, whatever you want. Like, oh, yeah, but you've
(36:17):
got to pay the bills. Yeah, you know what, You've
also got to live and have some joy in And
the thing is that it's like, well, let's find let's
get an income, but let's have joy as well, and
maybe we could do both. Maybe we can make a
fortune and also do the thing that we love, and
just trying to get across to them that you don't
realize how much potential you have at this time in
(36:40):
your life. And also you don't need to figure out
the next forty years by Friday week. You know, it's
like this doesn't I talked to thirty year olds who
don't know what they want to do, and I'm like,
guess what, You've got another fucking fifty years, so chill,
like there is no hurry, Like even when I finish
is my current study, and like I reckon, I don't know,
(37:05):
I don't know what I'm going to do but I
tell you what I'm not doing thinking about winding down
or retiring, Like I'm excited. I'm excited. I go, Is
there a chance I'll do some more study? Yep, I
probably won't, But could I go and do like I
would go and do a degree in something that I
know nothing about just because I want to learn that.
(37:27):
And it's never been not easier, but it's never been
more convenient to study now because you can do so
much online. A friend of mine's doing a master's in nutrition,
primarily nearly all of it online. I mean, it's full on,
it's a lot of work, but like and just to
just to talk to these kids and go, hey, the
(37:50):
world is your oyster, Like there is so much stuff
that you can do. But also then too, like presenting
with them the idea of intentional living, which is having
said that, yes, there are so many options and so
many roads you can choose, but also you're not going
to accidentally wind up in an awesome place, like you
(38:12):
need to choose it. You need to do the work.
You need to you need to keep getting up. You
need to be resilient, you need to, you know, find
your reason. You need to outlast the motivation you need to.
So also, it's not all fucking you know roses and
you know puppies. It's like there's there's still work, and
there's still discipline, and there's still effort and energy and
(38:35):
you know, there's all of that. But at the same time,
if like most of my listeners do, if you live
in Australia right now, it's a pretty fucking good time
despite all the doom and gloom that we're exposed to,
you know, twenty twenty five, Like, there have been so
many periods evolutionary, evolutionarily where humanity has been in a
(39:01):
way worse place than we're at now.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, that's true. Can I share something brilliant on a
completely unrelated topic.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
You can.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
It's a new discovery. It replaces doom scrolling www dot
explore dot org. Harps log onto it right now. This
is a website that has live cameras around the world
just watching animals. I watched polar bears eating bamboo for
ten minutes yesterday instead of doing scrolling, and my soul
(39:33):
was on fire. You can tune into a puppy whelping room.
You can watch the seals, you can watch eagles. It's
Explore dot org explore dot org.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
All right, it's coming up.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Oh the pandas are so cute.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Let me put on my specs. Oh wow wow, oh
my god.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Time this is real time and like no humans, just
animals doing their thing.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Gray seals currently live Gray seal. Oh my god. Ah
all right, well that sucked me up. Now I want
to seal.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
A look at the polar bears.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
You really did not need to.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, I probably can you give another six months extension
on your.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Bald eagles six streams? Yeah? See, I don't need this
in my ah okay, oh there's a month fitting little eagles.
Rather turn that up because that's noisy. Yeah all right,
well that's that's just fucked up my afternoon. There goes
my productivity out the window. It's been real cook Thanks listeners.
(40:55):
Thanks to
Gay Team. Welcome back to the show. This is Role
with the Punches podcast and I'm sharing with you today
an episode with Craig Harper where we're talking about self doubt,
self doubt and self sabotage, and that in a critic
of ours and the mental gymnastics that unfold within us
(00:22):
when we are aiming to step up to the next level.
Maybe you relate to that, If not, enjoy listening to us,
because I certainly relate to it. Nobody wants to go
to court and don'te My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
(00:43):
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
(01:03):
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot AU.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh goot a champce. It's it's Jumbo and it's Cookie,
It's the Bloody You Project, It's us. It's you again
for the millionth time. It's thirtieth of January. As we
record this. It's two oh three in the RB. I
don't know why I do that.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I do.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Do you know why I do that? Tip? It's the
U project, like Station I D time Check. Yeah, I
can tell everybody that's currently it's twenty one degrees in
our city by the bay here in Hampton over there
in Port Melbourne. Where is that where you live?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
What do you?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Thank God? So I don't know, you'll not know. I
don't know what Elwood, Elwood? What's the temp in Elwood
right now?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I've got no idea.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I've got a statement.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I haven't worked for se N for a million years
like you, so I don't. I don't slip into time
check mode.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You know that's what we need. Station ID time check,
weather check and after the break coming up up on
the other side of this, we've got the news and
Tip Cook's coming into the studio to talk to us about,
you know, all things buddy health and wellness more on
Melbourne's Homosport next.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, I've just been doing a version of this, which irritates.
I mean, when I record a bunch of my intros
to my show, I kind of do all editing and
then I have intro recording moment, and they all said,
and I'm like, it irritates me because I do the
same thing we were in. It's the same. I'm like, oh, spew.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Isn't it Isn't it funny? How like with this right
where there's no well for me or you, there's no
pressure for maybe somebody else doing something like this, there
might be pressure or proceed pressure. But when you've got
to do like give me something where I've got to
talk for now, no problem. Give me something where I've
got to talk for thirty seconds, I fuck it up
(02:53):
thirteen times in a row. Yes, you know where you go.
You know, let's say I've I've got to do an
intro for a pre recorded whatever, and I'll go, all right,
here we go, all right, all right? Can I tell you? Oh? Fuck?
And then you know it's like that, you know, like
(03:14):
I was going to do I was going to do
a podcast the other day on a particular topic. I
know the topic. Well, I fucked it up literally about
I don't know seven times. And then I crack the shit.
So I threw the glow mesh in the shag pole,
I threw the dumby out fucking window, threw all the
toys out of the fucking cot and I went, fuck
that title, I'm not doing it. You can all get
(03:36):
rooted and the world clearly doesn't need to hear that shit.
Fuck it, And then I sucked.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
You know what's funny though, I love I actually selfishly
love hearing this because the times when we've done like
a double episode and you have to record an intro
and you do it in front of me when I'm
on the screen, you can just go bup and pop
it out and it's brilliant, and I'm like, how does
he do that? So I love that when because I
do the same thing. When someone's not on the screen
(04:04):
with me, I can't do it, whereas if there are
people on the zoom screen, I can bang on about anything.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, I know, I know. It's it's funny how we
get in our own way. It's that it's that I did.
I did an episode speaking of such things. I did
an episode just before and I know this is not
where we're going today, but fuck it, who knows where
we'll go. We always talk. We just had a three
minute chat everyone about what we're going to talk about,
(04:31):
and then we then we proceed to talk about none
of that, but I did because I think this is relevant.
But I did a chat about you know, the difference
between what we think and what is real, like the
the the perception versus the data. You know, it's like
(04:56):
I feel or I think not like I'm not good enough,
but there's actually data and evidence to say, well, you
are good enough. You know, you're not the fucking best,
but you're good enough. Or I'm unlovable or whatever. Well, yeah,
I get it, you feel that, but people love you,
so you're not unlovable or do you know what I mean?
(05:17):
But despite the evidence, we can still believe stuff that
isn't true, so much so that we've even got real
world outcomes and data and evidence to say that, no,
you're not fucking useless. Yet in the middle of that knowledge,
we can still feel or even think or believe we're useless.
(05:39):
And it's like I'm sixty as fuck and it doesn't
go away, like it doesn't it just like the volume
goes down and I've done some great shit, like as in,
I've done really cool things in my life that I
never thought I would do, But the feeling of supreme
confidence just is there.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I feel like you were following my friend and I
this morning when we walked because I said this to
who I had the exact conversation where I said, you know,
and I've been thinking about it a lot and realizing
it all week in a really intense way, and I
just said, I just don't understand why in the middle
of not failing things right now, I feel like a failure.
(06:23):
And I know that that I don't understand what's going
on with this and what creates the intensity around it.
At times, it's like a puzzle.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, when you objectively, when I can look at what
you're doing objectively in terms of your career and your development,
you're learning whatever and go well, you are definitely at
the very least improving and growing and evolving at the
least right, But in the middle of that objective reality,
your subjective experiences, I'm dog shit.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, Like I feel like I feel like I know
there's growth in one direction, but I feel like there's
a decline twice as big in the other direction. And
it's such a funny experience.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, as Eckhart tool and many other spiritual teachers would
and you know, missus, I've got a rock in my
bra because I've been to Nepal and I had enlightenment.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I haven't been to Nepal.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Sorry India, Sorry India, but is finding that like being
aware of that without becoming that I'm aware of it.
I'm not. And I realize like I can think things
that a lies, like all that are not true. I
can even believe it's true while at being completely untrue.
(07:42):
You know, I'm not good good enough to I actually said,
and I'm probably sorry for repeating this everyone, but you
haven't heard it. Tiff. I remember like one of the events,
and we're going to do another event. We're going to
do a big U Project event at the Communiti this year. Everyone,
so batten down the fucking hatches starts because it's kind
of be super expensive. So sell a kidney and get ready.
(08:08):
Now it's not going to be expensive. But I remember,
you know this, self doubt this, I'm not good enough.
Who the fuck would want to listen to you or
read you or watch you? You know that's been ever present,
despite the fact that I know that some people do,
but I still feel like who would and why would they?
And even though I'm going okay at the moment, I'm
just lucky. It's just a phase. It's going to go.
(08:29):
But I remember one day at Deacon when we had
a room full, we had just under seven hundred people,
and I was just in the zone. I don't know why.
It's one of those days where it feels like it's
coming through you, not from you. It's like you're throwing
three pointers at the free throw line and every ball
is going in every basket without even touching the net.
(08:51):
It was like that, and everything was just working and
I kind of had this moment where I looked up
and I don't know if this is true, but like
there were seven hundred people in the palm of my hand,
just captivated by what was going on, and they were
just fully present and they were and what.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
I was saying was landing, and there was connection and
there was tears and there was revelation and there's like
and I just had this moment where I went, fucking hell,
I'm not shit.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I'm not shit. This is Oh my god, I can
do this, you know, this is I'm not terrible, you know.
And I remember thinking, I don't. This is what I
thought to myself. I've had the few times in my life,
right and this was one of the maybe five times
in my life where I've gone, don't forget this moment.
(09:41):
This is an important moment for you. And I remember
it really clearly, and I remember at the end of
the day because it was you know, we have lots
of good days with those workshops and seminars and conferences
that we do, and You've been involved in lots of them.
But at the end of the day, everyone had gone
and just picking up some shits and Melissa comes up
(10:04):
to me and we were on the stage and the
last person had filter out of the filtered out of
the room, and she was just packing up her suitcase
with a myriad of things that she takes, and she
just looks at me and she goes, this is actually
what she said. She goes, what the fuck was that?
(10:25):
And I go, I don't know. I go, I don't know.
She goes, oh my god. It was like, you know,
when there's just something special that happens, you know, it
could be a one on one conversation with someone, Yeah,
and even on that day, Yeah, but I don't know.
That's the thing about connection and communication and being able to,
(10:49):
you know, be in the middle of something amazing with
people and creating.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
That experience winding back to that idea of the you know,
feeling one way about our reality when you know our
perception of it, do you reckon there's a relationship. I
wonder if there is to me, if there's a relationship
between hope and risk. Right, So, when when you're in
(11:14):
when you kind of perceive where you're at and you're
in this shit spot, there's only hope. There's only hope
because there's only one way. It's like, when I changed
to do the stuff I'm doing now, we were in
the middle of a pretty shitty situation where things will
look and grim, I'm like, well, it can't get worse
than this, So I'm I'm going to do something new
(11:34):
and brave and bold and wonderful, and the only place
to go is up. And then all of a sudden,
when you start to build on that and you get
a little bit better, a little bit better, you're not
at the bottom rung anymore, and it's like I could
also fall. There's lots of hope, there's all that hope
up there, and I'm closer to it, but also I
could fall from here.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Look, I think that's interesting because when
you well, there's only hope I'm like, well, there's definitely
hope if you're that way, and you can find that.
But I think there's also strategy. There's also great questions.
There's like, oh, well, I'm in a shit spot, all right,
So you just acknowledge I'm in a shit spot or
(12:17):
I fucked up, or I'm physically or mentally or financially
or professionally out of shape or got that's cool, all right.
Then what's one thing you can do today tif to
make some ground. What's one thing you can do. What's
one conversation, What's one decision, What's one action? But yeah,
(12:39):
and that I think that ability to be able to
feel like you're not good enough but still try. Yeah,
just go. Look, I don't know, I don't know. And
it's like, you know, you and I are similar in
that I don't think, well, I don't know. Maybe you're
(13:00):
way more naturally gifted than me. I'm not sure, but
I don't think you think and I definitely don't think.
I don't think either of us inherently think that we're
fucking geniuses, right, So we're probably similar in that. Yeah,
and I don't think either of us were inherently you know,
you're probably. Well, you're definitely more genetically and probably more
sporting in terms of being gifted than I was, you know,
(13:23):
but I think we're similar in that we both don't
think highly of ourselves or we didn't. Maybe we're getting
a bit of confidence and awareness now hopefully not arrogance,
but yeah, I think that being able to recognize maybe
I don't have great self belief, or maybe I don't
have heaps of talent, or maybe I might fuck up,
(13:47):
But definitely if I don't try, I'm never going to
grow learn evolved, that get better.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Like how did you when you got to a point
of like stepping up in it? Let's like, so, whether
be corporate work or speaking or any of that, when
it was time to level up and step into that
new paradigm, how did you? How did you do that?
Because that's when it bolsters me. Sometimes in the middle
(14:13):
of and when I say transaction, I don't mean a
financial transaction, but like maybe a conversation in exchange or
an opportunity or feedback on something. I notice internally that
almost the unworthiness or I'm not this or stuff comes
up or I go so how do you manage? Because
(14:35):
that's for me it's probably one of the biggest things
that I keep coming up against.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
So for me, I have had to be willing to
fuck up and fail and get uncomfortable and look silly,
like if you can go, I'm probably going to get embarrassed.
That's okay, I'm probably gonna not do this. Well, that's okay.
I'm probably going to who make more mistakes than I'm
going to get things correct. In the early days, like
(15:06):
for me, it was I've told this story, but I'll
just briefly retell it. Like my first couple of speaking gigs.
I mean, that's that's really overselling what it was. But
I was talking to a group and I did get paid, right.
But so the first one was in at a timber
(15:26):
yard and it was in the staff room or the
lunch room talking to a bunch of blokes who didn't
give a fuck and you know, really weren't interested. But
the guy that owned the business, I was his trainer,
and he loved the shit I said, and he's like,
the shit that you tell me, my blokes need to
hear that shit. And I went and told them the
same shit, and clearly they weren't him, and they weren't interested.
(15:50):
But one or two guys. But in the middle of
that quite painful thirty minutes in the lunch room, there
were just one or two glimmers of connection and hope,
and it may be a smile or maybe a laugh
or and I just I just had this speaking of hope.
I just went ah, Like those little laughs or those
(16:10):
little moments of connection or those little tiny little winds,
they felt amazing. And I went oh and a few
times for the first year that I did stuff like that,
and I did probably seventy percent of what I did
in the first year was for free, and thirty percent
I got paid a dollar fifteen, right. But it was
(16:32):
in the middle of doing all of that and every
time coming away having done a three out of ten
or a two out of ten, or a four out
of ten, or sometimes when I was on fire, a five, right,
but being able to learn and see in my self
growth like I knew, I I like, I'm not good yet.
(16:53):
I know I'm not good, but I was terrible and
now I'm just less shit, right. So I'm it's like,
if you know you know, Brad, that you and I
both know jiu jitsu, Brad, Right, So if I go
and roll with Brad. If I do jiu jitsu with Brad,
I know that Brad could kill me seventeen different ways
(17:16):
in sixty seconds and I couldn't do anything about it. So,
and he's a he owns in a cab jiu jitsu academy.
He's very experienced, is very good. He's one of the
best probably in Australia in terms of in that, you know.
And so, but my job is not to go and
beat Brad. My job is to go in and go right, well,
Brad's great at this, I'm shit at this, and to
(17:39):
work at getting better, not at work at beating at
Brad or being as good as Brad, but going well, Craig,
you're a You're not even a one out of ten.
He's a nine. So you're a you're a half out
of ten. And so yeah, for me, it's just about that,
you know, It's just about going well. I've just got
to work at being better. And maybe down the track,
(18:02):
I don't know, maybe I'll have a podcast that thousands
of people listen to, or maybe I'll write a book
and someone will buy it, you know, Or maybe I'll
write a few books, or maybe I'll do a talk
and I'll be fucking terrible, but maybe one day seven
hundred people will pay to listen to me and I'll
be great. Who knows, well, you know, it's that I've.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Been doing some work with a friend of mine. He's
a speaker also, and we were just following some processes
that from some of his coaches and that he does,
so he's walking me through. It's about idea generation and
content and just really valuable stuff, a way of thinking.
Like my brain hurt when he introduced me to this stuff.
(18:44):
And after the first we did a co working day together.
Then that night I messaged him and said, hey, with love,
fuck you because yesterday I was a speaker and I
knew what my message was and I knew what I
spoke about. And right now I feel like dogshit that
(19:05):
doesn't know anything and can't even articulate to you in
an empty room what I'm talking about, because it was
introduced to this entirely new level of a way of
thinking and understanding things that just wasn't familiar to me. Yeah,
and that that was so confronting.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
What did you Okay? So what was the how long
ago is that?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Oh? Couple of weeks?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
So what do you know now like you felt shit
straight away? What do you know now and what have
you adapted and what do you think now about that?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
So I think that I realized that I I'm great
at telling stories, but I'm not great at articulating what
my point is before being like, I'm great if you,
but if a company comes to me and goes, we
want to talk about this, this is our what we
(20:01):
want to get across. I'm awesome at going through my
mental filing cabinet and nailing that. I'm not great at
someone going what do you talk about? What do you
want to come and tell my company? I'm like, oh,
And then in the trying to pull that out of
my head, it's like the messy fucking sock draw. It's everywhere,
and my brain goes from I can't categorize cleanly and
(20:24):
clearly and create flow with my points. And I know
I do it on the fly, but I just feel
like there's value in understanding that if I want to
be able to portray what I do when I have
opportunities to connect with people and companies.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, well, yeah, that is interesting. I think we can
complicate it right. Yesterday I spent half a day with
I haven't said this shit, have I? Maybe I said
that the kids from Lara Secondary College, right, great, your
twelve kids, amazing, we did it at Ballaratt Uni. And
(21:07):
whether or not I'm talking to you know, elite sporting team,
which I do, or I'm talking to a company like
a corporate space, you know, in a fancy fucking conference center,
or I'm talking of blokes on a construction site, or
I'm talking as seventeen year olds at a school or
at a university.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
It was.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
The common thread is that you're trying to help them
think better, do better, be better, create better outcomes. Right,
And so I reckon you can distill it down to
a ten twenty second elevate a pitch as they call it,
which you can then build on. So when someone goes
to me, what do you do and they're really asking
(21:52):
what my job is? I go, I help people change stuff.
The end it's like, I don't know what that is.
You know has seven words or six words? I help
people change stuff five words, right, And they're like, what
is what? What stuff? I go lots of stuff, you know,
I go head stuff, mine stuff, life, lifestyle, habits, behaviors,
you know, thinking outcomes results. Oh what how do you
(22:15):
do that? And I go, well, you know, I'm an
excise scientist. I'm doing my doctorate in the mind PhD
in you know, psychology. So we think about all the
human stuff, you know, like the thing we have in
common is we all want to succeed, we all want
to be healthy, we all want to be happy. And
so we opened that door. And oh and then so
just by going I help people change stuff, you know,
(22:38):
then people go generally almost everyone says what people, what stuff?
I go, all people, all stuff. You know. It's like,
at least open the door, Like, here's what we know.
Doesn't matter what environment or what person or what situation,
Nobody in front of you wants to be less happy.
Nobody in the room wants to be less healthy, Nobody
(22:59):
in the room wants to be more of a failure,
nobody wants to be more fearful. Right, and so it's
like I think, once you try and over talk it
or over explain it, you you do yourself a disservice,
you know. So I tend to go, oh, look, I
(23:20):
work with teams and athletes and companies and individuals about
just helping them create better outcomes in their world the end,
you know, or whatever. Because invariably there's a question, nobody
goes ah and walks away. They go cool, thanks by,
like they don't do that. I've never had that done.
(23:41):
So what I do is if I go, oh, well,
thanks for asking. Well, actually I do a range of things.
I'm an author, I'm you know. Then people are shut up,
like I'm always like undersell over deliver. Just open the door,
say something a bit interesting but also authentic. Open the
door a bit, and then let them come through and
ask you stuff if you want. But I mean, the
(24:03):
nutshell of what you do is the same. Your job
is to help people perform better whatever people, and whatever
perform means better habits, better thinking, better decisions, better operating systems,
better protocols, better lifestyle. You know, it's all the same stuff,
right even you know, it's like, I'm not a corporate
(24:25):
guru at all, but I work successfully in the corporate space.
But I've never ever been corporate myself, Like I've never
been a corporate employee ever in my life. Yet I
can go into the corporate space and thrive because everyone
in the corporate space is a human and I'm pretty
(24:48):
good with humans. You know, so, yeah, but I think
over time, I don't know if this is very podcasting
what I'm saying, but fuck it, I feel like it's
just you and me. I'm coaching you. But I think
over time you're going to get more succinct and more clear,
and you know, it's just going to become more where,
(25:08):
more and more, as you get more experienced and more
confident and more competent, it's going to be not that
you are in any way choreographed or you know, you're
more person than persona, but as you do more and
more my experiences anyway, for me, you just it's almost
(25:29):
just like you're having a conversation, but really, you know,
really like yesterday, sorry you go, well, I.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Say what I've really what I like and am drawn
to about this process of working with Mike is the
research and the deep dive into what are my thoughts?
Where does this come from? What is the research like
stuff that I like? Where have I drawn this from?
(25:58):
And because I'm leave, I want yeah, I want to
leave people with all of the directions I've looked in
so they can go and look there too, like real
clarity around I think just even the idea of It's
made me go back and read books I've read before
on specific topics and bring to mind get real clarity
(26:20):
on why I've landed where I've landed with all of
this stuff, and what is the research and other people
who talk about it, what are the things that I've
agreed with and disagreed with, and how can I talk
about that to a room because that's all relevant, Like
all of it's all of the stuff that's my stuff
is just a decision that's built on stuff that I
(26:42):
have agreed with and disagreed with and maybe changed my
mind about over time. So I've loved the process of
going back to that and playing there, but it's just
left me in a bit of a whirlwind of oh,
I'm not used to thinking in this one, being used
to think in a different way. And I know I
(27:03):
use my brain a lot in what I do, but
like it physically hurt. I was physically at home going
My brain hurts. It feels like I've done a workout
with my head.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
That's funny, Yeah, funny. Can I tell you a little secret.
Your brain can't hurt because there's no pain receptors in it.
But anyway, you're welcome that's ten dollars. I'll send you
the bill.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
You're doing a PhD. You wouldn't have been able to
film with that.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
But what what I was going to say to you
is what I think is something of a relief for
all speakers, is you're not the answer, like TIF Cook,
not the answer Tiff Cook. I can call you a
(27:50):
chick because you call yourself a chick, So please don't
send me an email. Everyone TIF calls herself that you're
a chick. On the stage in front of a bunch
of other people sharing thoughts and ideas and stories, some
of them are going to land, some of them are
going to connect. Some people are going to be fucking inspired.
Some people are going to be looking at their Facebook
while you're talking. Some people are going to walk away
and go, she's a gun. That was the best thing
(28:11):
I've ever fucking heard. And a few people are going, ah, right,
that's what we do. You go in there and you go,
I'm going to tell you some stuff that I think,
some experiences I've had, some insights I've gained, maybe a
story or two, and then I'm going to explain why
I'm telling you all that, And then you're going to
maybe do something with it or not right. And so
(28:35):
it's not like I never you know, I would never
tell someone how to think, but I would talk about thinking.
I would talk about metacognition and you know, metaperception, all
of that. I would never tell someone what they should eat,
but I would talk about nutrition. You know, I would
never tell someone what would be the best job, but
I could talk about the psychology of work and fulfillment
(28:58):
and connection and purpose and what tends to work for
some people in terms of you know, thriving not surviving
in work for forty years and you know, so you
can talk about things without directing people, because there's some
stuff that we know. Like I think we can safely
say that if you have a job where you feel
(29:22):
like it's meaningful and you have purpose and you have
connection with other people and you feel like you're doing
good and growing and evolving, and well, there's a fair
chance you're going to like that job. But if you
get paid a million bucks a year, and I know
some people who think it wouldn't matter what it was,
I would fucking love it. You wouldn't love it, Like
I mean, if you had a job where you've got
(29:44):
a million bucks a year, twenty grand a week, but
you fucking hated every moment of it. Guess what your
life is not. That's not success, that's not joy, that's
just income. And so you know, I think there are
these things that are broadly relevant, if not one hundred
(30:04):
percent applicable all of the time. But as I said
to these kids yesterday, they're seventeen. Yesterday was day one
of year twelve, I'm like, what a fucking exciting time
it is for you, you know? And I said, here's
the thing. You know, there's no optimal career. There's no
optimal plan, but there's there's the best plan for you, though,
(30:29):
but your best plan will be the worst plan for
the person next to you, and the career that blows
your socks off. I'm like, how many of you want
to be an influencer? Right? And of course no, not
all the hands. I thought it would be everybody, but
a few hands went up, you know, and you go cool.
So for some of you, maybe that's what you should
or could do. For maybe you'll be an architect. For
(30:51):
some of you, maybe you'll be a world famous chef,
or maybe you'll be none of that. Maybe you'll buy
a truck and you'll have a truck driving business and
you'll transport stuff around that who knows, it doesn't matter,
but it's trying to find this, you know, like what's
going to work for tif cook won't work for the
next person. And you know, it's like I say that
people don't don't do what I do because most people
(31:13):
would hate it because I don't actually have a job
or predictability, or I don't have a set wage. I
don't have you know, I don't have holiday pay, I
don't have sick pay. I don't have much security in
that sense, or predictability or certainty. Most people would hate
what I do because it's extremely financially vulnerable, you know.
But I thrive in that. But most people don't.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, And there's so much there's sacrifice in every aspect
of what we do in life, like because I've been
thinking about it, you know, I think about that a lot.
I could not fathom the idea of nine to five
again with someone else owning my time, me having no autonomy,
but also or love someone to pay me sup for
(32:00):
an holiday pay. I'd love to be able to leave
the job at work at five pm and turn my
head off like there's and you go, well, you get
a choice of what you are willing to pay for that,
and you get to pay it. Like because seven days
a week, any time of the day, I can go
and walk my dog at my will any day I could,
(32:23):
I couldn't theoretically just do whatever the fuck I want.
And that's the price I pay. Is well, that you
can do that, you also got to fucking make enough
money to pay yourself in super so you can eat
when you're sixty.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But I don't even think it's a price.
I think it's the joy you get. I'm like, for me,
there's like it's not even none of me feels like
I'm missing out on what I feel like that. I'm like,
I feel like I've been cheating for forty years. I
feel like the fucking kid who got away with the cake, right,
I'm like, just I'm the fat kid in the corner
(32:59):
with a fucking chocolate cake and I'm just getting away
with it, you know, Like my mum, I reckon my
mum for about the first twenty years is like, what
the fuck do you actually do? You don't have a job,
you know. She didn't like even when I owned like
a proper business, gyms and stuff. To me, that was
(33:22):
a fucking scam. Like if I didn't own a gym,
I'd be in a gym two hours a day anyway.
And now I could just be in the place I
want to be in and people give me money, and
nothing that I do feels like a job. I'm around
people who are happy, people who are getting in shape,
people who are having good conversations, people who get excited
to come to see you, people get excited to come
(33:45):
to the place that you work at, and it's just
this fucking massive kind of amazing energy. And you're like, yeah,
this is not a job, this is a scam, and
I'm in the middle of this scam I'm making do
fucking don't tell anyone. I hope it doesn't catch on.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Yeah, yeah it did.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Personal training court on well fuger, Oh well, oh well,
you know, but that's that. I think. It's just you know,
I was talking to these kids yesterday. Did you see
the picture I put up of that young kid? No, well,
go to my instagram right now. I know this is
(34:26):
not very good. Go to my Instagram and have a
look at the photo of that kid. And I now
if you want to see this kid. Everyone, his name's Declan.
Just turned seventeen, day one of year twelve yesterday. Now
I'm not I'm not tiny. I'm five ten and I'm
eighty six kilos.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Just above his like your your head comes up to
his mouth, your head comes up to his lips.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, I look like I'm fucking four foot seven and
fifty two kilos and I'm five ten and eighty five
or six kilos. And I don't think he would mind
me telling you because dudes don't care. And he said
to me, and he's in good shape. Right, So he's
(35:20):
six five and one hundred and thirty kilos and he's
in good shape, like he's an athletic six five one
thirty one.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Thing when I hear stats like that, the first thing
I think is wow, I managine how much boony gets
to eat.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Anyway, back back to what I you know, Like, the
thing is, I was trying to emphasize to those kids,
like you can pretty much do whatever you want, Like
I know there are limitations, but don't do what mum
or dad necessary.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Like if what mum and dad want you to do
is also what you want to do, well, cool, but
don't become a fucking doctor because Mum and dad want
you to become a doctor. Become a doctor because that's
what you want. Become a truck driver or a train driver,
or a personal trainer, or a fucking artist or a
street performer, whatever you want. Like, oh, yeah, but you've
(36:17):
got to pay the bills. Yeah, you know what, You've
also got to live and have some joy in And
the thing is that it's like, well, let's find let's
get an income, but let's have joy as well, and
maybe we could do both. Maybe we can make a
fortune and also do the thing that we love, and
just trying to get across to them that you don't
realize how much potential you have at this time in
(36:40):
your life. And also you don't need to figure out
the next forty years by Friday week. You know, it's
like this doesn't I talked to thirty year olds who
don't know what they want to do, and I'm like,
guess what, You've got another fucking fifty years, so chill,
like there is no hurry, Like even when I finish
is my current study, and like I reckon, I don't know,
(37:05):
I don't know what I'm going to do but I
tell you what I'm not doing thinking about winding down
or retiring, Like I'm excited. I'm excited. I go, Is
there a chance I'll do some more study? Yep, I
probably won't, But could I go and do like I
would go and do a degree in something that I
know nothing about just because I want to learn that.
(37:27):
And it's never been not easier, but it's never been
more convenient to study now because you can do so
much online. A friend of mine's doing a master's in nutrition,
primarily nearly all of it online. I mean, it's full on,
it's a lot of work, but like and just to
just to talk to these kids and go, hey, the
(37:50):
world is your oyster, Like there is so much stuff
that you can do. But also then too, like presenting
with them the idea of intentional living, which is having
said that, yes, there are so many options and so
many roads you can choose, but also you're not going
to accidentally wind up in an awesome place, like you
(38:12):
need to choose it. You need to do the work.
You need to you need to keep getting up. You
need to be resilient, you need to, you know, find
your reason. You need to outlast the motivation you need to.
So also, it's not all fucking you know roses and
you know puppies. It's like there's there's still work, and
there's still discipline, and there's still effort and energy and
(38:35):
you know, there's all of that. But at the same time,
if like most of my listeners do, if you live
in Australia right now, it's a pretty fucking good time
despite all the doom and gloom that we're exposed to,
you know, twenty twenty five, Like, there have been so
many periods evolutionary, evolutionarily where humanity has been in a
(39:01):
way worse place than we're at now.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, that's true. Can I share something brilliant on a
completely unrelated topic.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
You can.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
It's a new discovery. It replaces doom scrolling www dot
explore dot org. Harps log onto it right now. This
is a website that has live cameras around the world
just watching animals. I watched polar bears eating bamboo for
ten minutes yesterday instead of doing scrolling, and my soul
(39:33):
was on fire. You can tune into a puppy whelping room.
You can watch the seals, you can watch eagles. It's
Explore dot org explore dot org.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
All right, it's coming up.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Oh the pandas are so cute.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Let me put on my specs. Oh wow wow, oh
my god.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Time this is real time and like no humans, just
animals doing their thing.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Gray seals currently live Gray seal. Oh my god. Ah
all right, well that sucked me up. Now I want
to seal.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
A look at the polar bears.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
You really did not need to.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, I probably can you give another six months extension
on your.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Bald eagles six streams? Yeah? See, I don't need this
in my ah okay, oh there's a month fitting little eagles.
Rather turn that up because that's noisy. Yeah all right,
well that's that's just fucked up my afternoon. There goes
my productivity out the window. It's been real cook Thanks listeners.
(40:55):
Thanks to
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