Sneaky Stress Signals: The Subtle Art of Falling Apart | Dr. Cam McDonald - 905 - Roll With The Punches

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is role with the punches and we're
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Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in

(00:29):
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Doctor m McDonald, welcome

(00:53):
back to the show.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Gay to be here, Tevney Cook.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Really a big job for you today, isn't it a
big job for you?

Speaker 3 (01:00):
We're carrying the team today.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
You are carrying the team. I think you're always carrying
the team.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
I just get license to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
It's good.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
So it's just it's one of my favorite things to do,
actually is to be heard, and particularly when someone's in
a position like we, you kind of forced to then
ask another intelligent question afterwards and make it seem like,
it's really interesting. I really appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
You are a fountain of wisdom and one of those
people that is not just wise in only one area.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
And I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Like sometimes when I hear you talking about things, whether
that be on a podcast or whether it be in
our pH community online where US coaches go to suck
the wisdom out of you twenty four to seven, Sometimes
when you talk about stuff, I'm just like, how does
this one human know so much?

Speaker 3 (01:56):
That's so funny. And because I have my heads of
medicine and science in the organization that I work in,
and I am distilling, you know, five percent of the
stuff that they've shared when I'm sharing it in these forums.
It's just the knowledge that these people have is so

(02:16):
vast and so wide. It's absolutely insane. So it's a
very nice comment. But I am truly standing on the
shoulders of giants, and I am a mouse on top
of this giant. Like I'm not adding much eye, But
it's great. It's it's I started out very narrow with
exercise science, but got very interested in nutrition just knew

(02:37):
there was more to it and then but what really
changed it was brain health. When I started looking at
brain health. Yeah, everything contributes to brain health. Everything, So
like because your mind is like distilling all of the
all of the feedback from your belief systems, from your
mental tiredness, from your heart rate, your digestive system, from

(03:01):
your muscle saunas, from your social relationships, from the environment
around you. It's bring it all in together, and your
mind has to just say, well, what am I going
to pay attention to? What's the real feedback that I
need to listen to here? And so when people talk
about cognitive performance and you go, oh, yeah, I've got
to eat more a Mega three, But not if you
haven't slept, and not if you have an ex size,

(03:22):
and not if you've got some static noise or drilling
that's going on behind you. Like, all of these things
distract you. So when I got into brain health, that's
when my field open up to think, man, what are
all of these things and let's say something with it.
And then I've just been very fortunate in the last
decade and a bit to work with the leading minds

(03:46):
in this field. Like it, it's been a pretty awesome ride.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
Do you ever zoom out? Because I do this? Do
you ever zoom out and have this moment where you like,
I think all the time of the really, what now
seem I have to mind myself. What's common knowledge is
not common knowledge to everybody? So what's common knowledge to me?
And what just seems like, oh that's just normal every day?
We just know this is mind blowing to people. And

(04:14):
so when I first started this podcast, the level of
excitement and how mind blown I was over things then
that now to me, are they can sink in to
be Well, that's just everybody just knows that, just like
everybody does know that.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah. No, it's a thing that I'm having all the
time because I mean I spend my time in precision health, yes,
and I'm dealing with the leading AI in that space
as well, and I'm teaching the principles around that, and
my job is not to just say, oh, hey, like
do this for yourself. It's I firstly have to say, hey,

(04:50):
it's all different for everybody, and we can't calculate it
without these incredible computers doing all the things. Like I
have to convince people that not convinced, but expose people
to this understanding that precision is even a thing that
I am completely different to you. We need completely different things.
That is not a mentality that we're all walking around with.

(05:11):
We all still walk many of us walk around the
majority and I do at times as well, walk around
with the mentality of surely they're thinking what I'm thinking.
And this is you know, it gets funny when you
start looking at morphology, you know, body shape, and you know,
I look at a pair of calf muscles now, and
I am making full on character assessments about that individual
that are really accurate. I look at their hands and

(05:33):
their finger length, okay, And then I look at somebody
who's you know, got a bigger frame, and I think,
how is everybody not seeing that they're going to be
the most nurturing person in the room, and how they're
just looking after everybody. How can you not see that
these these individuals with shorter femurs and more muscle just

(05:53):
up for a challenge and they're ready for the darkest
humor in the room. You know, Just it blows my
mind that that people aren't seeing those same things because
it's just been my world for the last for the
last twelve years. So I totally understand what you're saying,
and I've really noticed it because I've been doing a

(06:14):
lot of talking to people on stages with organizations, all
of that sort of stuff, And I'm realizing that the
stuff that we're talking about is five to ten years
ahead of the public psyche, and so it's great to
have these opportunities to actually unpack it fully and get

(06:35):
people up to that state of readiness to say, Okay,
there's actually stuff out there that can really have a
much more powerful impact than what's available right now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
I feel like I'm really honed in at the moment
on the awareness of the learning process because I'm learning
piano and I'm not musical, and I've never done such
thing in my life, and it's really interesting to watch
me physically and natively sit at something new. I'm trying
to learn to read music, play an instrument, read two

(07:05):
lines of music at one fucking time in this language
which is music, reading music a whole new language, reading
two of those things at the one time, whilst doing
two different things with two different hands that might be
two different beats. The finger numbers that they number run
opposite directions. It's just like this, and I watch and

(07:26):
when things start to land, I go, does that land?
Because I'm hearing a tune and responding, and no, does
that land because there's muscle memories in my fingers? Does
that land because I see the notes where they're like,
I'm over, I'm watching myself do the learning and then
wanting to fill the gaps of Yeah, but am I learning?
And which part of me is learning? I'm so inquisitive

(07:48):
and it fascinates me.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, it's so cool. It's so cool. And I mean,
there's so much, there's so much that we gather that's
totally not conscious, you know, and to even be able
to break that down and explain it that there's a
whole lot of question marks in that box as to
how much is actually really happening for those things to occur,

(08:11):
it's really cool.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Similarly and completely different, but this is an example of
that intrigues me. I was telling someone yesterday, I booked
tickets to Jimmy Carr next year when he comes to
Australia up until about I don't know when the podcast
come out with him on the Diary of a CEO.
But I hated Jimmy Carr for no reason. I didn't

(08:34):
watch his stuff. I didn't really know who he was.
But at some point he popped into my world and
I was like, I cannot stand that guy. He looks
like a mannequin. Can't stand him, dumb jokes, he's rude, whatever,
And I don't know why. But then I listened to
that podcast probably three or four times. He is so

(08:56):
smart and philosophical, and I just went, what a brilliant man.
And now I'm like his biggest fan of comedy. And
I'm like this switch in me once I knew the
person beneath the act, and then my how receptive I was.
And then I just apply that to all the judgments
or experiences we have unconsciously with the people around us

(09:18):
every day.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely it's and when you get into the
space of why is a person thinking the way that
they are when you and even when you start to
unpack it yourself and dig into all of the darkness
that is there, you realize, man, it can be just
an off look from your parent back when you were
three that left you in the lurch, and it's like, oh,

(09:42):
that's why I'm acting really entitled, or why I feel
like I need it, like I need validation or whatever
it might be. And just applying that I actually find
a strategy is and it probably isn't psychologically true, but
there's I feel like some people, all of us have
got like, you know, the little in a child or

(10:02):
whatever that got hurt and stop growing. And so when
you're reacting, you're reacting from the six year old version
of you that just wants to have a hug and
just wants to know that the world's okay. And if
you look at them as you would a six year old,
it immediately changes the expectation that you would have for
their behavior. It changes I find that it helps me
have a lot more compassion. Like I look at my

(10:24):
four year old versus my ten year old, and my
four year old does He's probably out there destroying stuff
right now, and I don't do anything about it, but
I'll look at it and go, dahgies, that's cute. My
ten year old I would want to throw them through
the window. Of course I wouldn't. That's not good parenting.
But you have such a different perception of oh you
should know, therefore, how dare you? But so many of

(10:46):
these impulses, and whether it be just stress that's accumulated
physically or it's the psychological stuff that happens when we're younger,
you don't know, and it's a really cool thing to
just give everyone the best possible assumption, you know, Like
someone cuts you off in traffic and you go, you
know what, and you can go as deep as you want.

(11:08):
Maybe they've just had the worst day. Maybe they were
thinking about, you know, ending their marriage because they're totally
unhappy and they're having the worst day ever. And their
kid told them they hate them and done blah blah blah,
and he just just got distracted for a moment because
the phone rang and it was a really important thing,
and so they cut me off. It's like, now, fair enough, mate,

(11:29):
you know what I mean, Like, it's just you can
play the game. But we often just go to what's
going to keep me safe, what's going to make me right.
It's a bit of a protective mechanism that we have.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
We just tell stories, right, We just we have an
emotional reaction and then we tell the most comfortable justification
for why we did that.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, yeah, or whatever appeases our feeling. And sometimes we
just got to vent it out because we're angry ourselves
and someone cut us off. So I want to feel
angry at something you stepped into my lane, here we go.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
The annoying thing is with my levels of curiosity is
I will never ever be able to fill the gap
of knowing what it was about Jimmyka that set me
off on the immediate dislike because I don't have any
memory of him first ever coming into it was just
an annoyance from it whenever I recall seeing him. And
it's like with most things, you can realize a trigger.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, I experience with him. Actually, yeah, I'm not dissimilar.
And it was its tonality, Like you're very sensitive to tone,
and the tone is and the posture he holds on
stage is really disingenuous, Like it doesn't seem like him,
you know what I mean. It's like for me, there's
a conflict between the tone and the persona that he's

(12:46):
got and what I'm hearing, and so it's like there's
something about you that's off, and then the laugh seems
really fake. You've nailed it.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
You've nailed it for me. When I went to the Himalayas,
I had this epiphany about integrity, and I realized that
a lot of the people that at times were rubbing
me the wrong way was where I could identify a
potential lack of integrity in what I see, and that
just nails it. So I guess once I got to
hear him and get to know the human underneath that act,

(13:19):
I could tell the act is an act, and I
know where some of these jokes are coming from, and
that he's actually very smart.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Yeah yeah, oh.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
Guy, see you're such a wizard. Camp.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Well, this is the beauty of it, right, because I
know that you're being a little ninety five activator. Authenticity
is key for an activator. It's like do not bs
me number one and then two. Because you're on the
cuspop of Crusader, You've got really dominant right temporal lobe,
which is tonality and intention. So you're assessing tone to

(13:49):
extract intention. And so if you're seeing that the tone
doesn't match something and it doesn't seem genuine, it's like
I'm going to now, this person doesn't make me feel good.
You know, it doesn't match what I need. And so
that mismatch and this is where the you know, that
mismatch then creates a story. It's like, right, what do

(14:09):
I want to do with that? Well, I definitely don't
want to spend more time listening to him, but I
can see lots of other people do, so I need
a story to keep me away from it.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
I'm a little bit blown away, right, This is what
I mean about your level of wisdom, about even the
level of personalization with PHG sixty. So I know a
lot because I've done it for a while. But you
take things that I think come from other eras. So
I go, oh, I'm sensitive to people being disingenuous because

(14:39):
I had childhood trauma that and experiences since that have
been manipulative and harmed me. So when it comes to
manipulation and being close to people and trusting them, I
thought that's where that came from. But you're telling me
it's it's biologically hardbird as well.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, it's right, because you need a so that the biology,
your biology is always filtering the information and you end
up with data, and then you add a story to
the data, and the story comes from your subconscious and
your belief systems, so you know. And you'll have someone
who walks outside and it's really cold and they love cold,

(15:25):
and they go, oh my god, this feels so good.
Another person walks out cold and they feel terrible with cold,
and they go, I hate you for bringing me out here,
and it's like, I resent this person in my life
because now I have to stand out in the cold.
All they've had is their body has filtered this sensation
of cold, and then they've added a narrative to it

(15:48):
based off their belief systems. And this is where for you, like,
let's say that you clear all the subconscious stuff, that
story wouldn't appear anymore and you just go, oh, he's
being disingected. I wonder why he's been inauthentic or disingenuous.
I wonder what's going on for him that might do that,
as opposed to I'm going to pop this little story
on top because it allows me to process this thing

(16:09):
that I haven't fully processed yet, whatever it might be.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
And this is kind of where I wanted to go
in this conversation, was understanding what stresses it that we're
not recognizing because in twenty twenty five, it's kind of
bloody everything. You know, we're crowded, where there's noise, there's information,
there's energy, there's shit going on twenty four to seven,

(16:36):
And yeah, I wanted to have a conversation about that
idea of because it's hard, it's hard to listen to
your body. It's hard tune in when when we are
cutting out ninety five percent of the noise and sensations
just to fucking get from point A to point B
in life.

Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yes, it is. And the when most people think of stress,
they think of work. And from my experience working with
a lot of workplaces, now it's not work. You're completely
competent and capable of doing your job ninety nine percent
of the time. And if you wake up refreshed, welfared,
exercised with a great group of people to work with,

(17:18):
the work that you have to do is actually really,
really easy, and you might even find your passion there
if you dig deep enough. So people often think of work,
they think of logistics. With family, they think of kids,
they think of partner, they think of in laws, they
think of so like those. Essentially it's like whatever I'm
looking at, you know, the things that I have to

(17:40):
take responsibility for. Because the first rule of stress to
some individuals is if you're very stressed, it is how
can I take on less responsibility? So if I'm if
I've got lots of stress on my plate, I'll go
let's say that you you know, and some people go
into different states. So someone's overwhelmed, someone comes up to

(18:03):
them and goes, oh, I've got a thing that you've
got to fix, and they fire back, that's not my problem,
that's your problem, you know. It's like, this is a
blame game. I'm going to offload responsibility if I can.
It can be I'm just going to give up. I'm
just going to quit. I'm just going to stop being
responsible for myself. I'm just going to crave. I'm just
going to eat food because that's going to satisfy me.

(18:26):
And that's another way of just avoiding and not confronting
what's going on. It's the reducing responsibility, and then another
person might just become completely recluse, do not want to
interact with people anymore. It's like I'm too overwhelm mentally,
I can't take any more of this on. I just
need to be away from you now. And there's lots
of different versions of that as well. But the first

(18:47):
thing is that when you blame the kids, blame the partner,
blame the work, it's just like, I just don't want
responsibility for my feelings right now. That's often the thing
that's and your body's doing that in a really powerful way,
just to unburden yourself. Like if you've got lots of
strain on, like the heavyweight at the gym, well, let

(19:07):
me put the heavyweight downeuse. That feels better. And that's
the But what they don't realize is that the thing
that they're looking at and blaming in many instances is
just the tip of the iceberg and where that stress
has been developing and where the fatigue has been developing
so that I can't take on responsibility anymore. Is all

(19:29):
of the other stuff that's happening in their environment and
how that's interacting with their unique biology. Because most parents,
if they were if work, let's say plenty of money
was given to them, work was taken away. All they've
got to do is turn up and look after their kids.
So yeah, I can do that, Like I can do it.
In fact, I love it. They're great kids. And then

(19:50):
but then the same thing with work, as I said before,
like someone gives you a really good start to the day,
and someone comes like, hey, i've got a problem. You
need to solf. Great. I love solving problems. Let's do
this because I'd really love to take ownership of that problem, right,
now because I've got energy. So generally what you see
is this this accumulation of load on people. It's called alostasis,

(20:13):
allostatic load physiologically if you want to look at that,
or resistant stage essentially, or just having to push even
though you've got a lot on. And probably the greatest
thing that I see is that people don't know that
they're under all of these stresses. They know that there's
some stress in their life, but they don't realize all
the other things. And some of the great things that
they're doing are actually adding to their stress in some

(20:34):
instances as well, like early morning exercise for night owls
and various things like that. We just see over scheduling
of stressful activities and underscheduling of rest and recovery. And
that is the balance. Everyone says, I want balance in
my life. The true balance is being able to fully

(20:58):
recover after you've experienced stress. If you get that right,
you recover, you get stronger, you heal, you get smarter.
But if you haven't prepared yourself for the recovery, if
you haven't programmed the recovery, you get into a whole
lot of trouble. So but I know that it'd be
worth talking about all of the little things that stress
you as a topic, because we don't often talk about

(21:19):
that much.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
When I first bought the piano, one of my theories
one was I just want to do. I want something
that's not attached to the current tiff in the gym, tiff,
the boxer tif, you know, I like the current identity.
I wanted something completely unme something different, and something that
was going to re enhance my levels of creativity as

(21:46):
I'm working seven days a week for a very long
time now and I've just stopped doing that. So just
the constant doing and thinking and achieving and pushing the
body and pushing stress, and I was really burning out
and bought this piano, and fuck, I was so tired
sometimes like I was loving it because I'm like, I'll

(22:06):
be still and I'll be able to still focus on something,
but the brain power and it was amazing how sometimes
I'd sit down and play a bit and then I'd finish,
and then I'd be exhausted still because I had it.
It's a type of it's still it's I don't even
even call it rest or stillness because it's such a
new learning that my brain's not firing up.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Not at all RESTful when you're wearing stuff.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
No, no, but it was a convenient story cam and
it sounded good when I told people.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Just with two fingers bashing away, that's RESTful.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
This is, this is exactly the thing. This is because
I wrote this down before knowing verses.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
It's like I did.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
A podcast a long time, not long, a little while
ago with a brilliant woman's doctor, Saundra Dalton Smith on
seven types of rest. And so she talks about the
seven types of rest, the social resttional rest, the physical rest.
There's there's all seven types. But again it comes to

(23:06):
a little bit like the Jimmy Carr example of you
can hear that and make a decision that sounds and
feels good. How do we know versus what we just believe?
And that fits well, It's like, oh, I need this
type of rest because something about that story feels good.
And what if it's not still not the right story,
We're still avoiding something. Yeah, because I kind of knew

(23:29):
that was a story, I'll be still it's rest for
It's like, no, you're very fucking busy, just doing another activity.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yes, yeah, I agreed, And the it's interesting as well.
You can have a I've even noticed this with my
work from time to time where I'll just say, yep, no,
you're tired and you've definitely worked enough, you should definitely stop.
But I've taken to really just checking in with myself,
doing five minutes of a bit of breathing, whatever it

(23:57):
might be. And what I'm finding is just that moment
in pause allows me to say, ah, you've you've done
something pretty well. You actually do have plenty of energy.
You just need to construct your next priority list better.
You just need a clear idea of what you're doing.
The thing that was making me tired was not having

(24:19):
the priority list, and so I've got to I've got
to attack four different things now, so I know you
just got to attack one. Ah, I've got energy for that.
And so even just yeah, it's amazing how your mind
plays games with you and all of the factors that
filter into that as well. And you know, it can
come from the physical environment, background noise, it can come

(24:42):
from the clothing that you're wearing. You know how tight
it is and how uncomfortable it is, and does it
squeak and does it rub in different ways? Any of
that sensory input. It can come from the time of day.
It's just the time of day that's making you more
stress right now because you're trying to do an activity.
And that's something it we don't talk about anywhere in

(25:02):
here enough. There can be fights in an office purely
because you've got an early bird and a night owl
having a conversation at eight am in the open morning meeting,
and the night owl doesn't want anything to do with
that conversation, and the early bird is on fire and
ready to change the world, and they think, what the
hell is wrong with those other people? Yeah, they don't,
and then we just we don't ever put in place. Oh,

(25:25):
it's the timing that's that's no, it's got to be
them as a character that is the problem. And it's
don't we don't default back to. I wonder what else
it could be, because there's lots of little subtle things.
It could be the chemicals in broccoli for some instances
that can create mental fog and hives if you're not

(25:45):
very good at processing solicil. It same with kale and
things like that, and it can just be irritating you.
It can be that you've eaten foods in the wrong order,
and now you've got a little bit of extra fermentation
in your digestive system, and that then damn happens the
signaling to your brain to say, I'm not as calm anymore,
because there's a calming signal that comes from a happy

(26:06):
gut to your brain. And it might be that you're
just now a bit on edge because your gut's a
bit off because you ate the last few meals that
are a little bit out of order. But then you
get this sense and this is I've seen this. They
get a sense of anxiety because they're not as calm,
and then they fill the story with why they're anxious,
But it's actually the food traveling through your gut and

(26:27):
a little actually a drop in serotonin signaling from your gut,
and so it's all of these little things. You know,
it takes time. This, I mean a submission that we're
on essentially is for people to understand themselves very very deeply,
so that they can start picking these things apart. And
the great news is that the way that science is

(26:49):
going now, we're able to be much more precise with well,
I know where you can start. But even just knowing
of these things knowing it could be temperature, knowing it
could be I've had a a client who went to
the gym very cold, sensitive, went to the gym, signed
up to the gym, chose a treadmill, but it was
right in front of a fan that got turned on,

(27:11):
and they left the gym, not because their goals had
somehow evaporated, but because this place does not feel comfortable.
And it's because there was wind blowing on the back
of their neck. And that's really irritating for some people,
whereas for another person that's heaven. But we don't put
it down. We just go and we make up a story.

(27:32):
I don't feel good. The data comes up to our
brain to say something's wrong, and if we're not hyper
sensitive to it, we just go. I just don't feel
comfortable here. I used to when I was younger. I
used to have a good party on the weekends, and
then on a Sunday, I would have an entire percolator,
like one of the big percolators of coffee, and I
would be beside myself anxious at the end of the day,

(27:54):
and I think, oh, geez, I really I don't feel good,
and if there's something wrong with me, and it took
quite a while to understand that it was the caffeine.
I just thought it was the effects of having a
good party and not sleeping that well. But no, I mean,
this is just the funny little things. But we create
then a story because we've got data of this place

(28:15):
doesn't feel unfeel comfortable. I'm not sure what it is.
And then we create a cognitive a cognitive story that
fills the whole. It's fascinating it is that we love this.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Can you so the listeners will long time listeners will
be a little bit familiar with phree sixty in our conversations.
But I wonder if you can so there's six health types.
I wonder if you can give a quick kind of
snapshot of so that people might listen and be able
to go, oh, maybe that's me, and then.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Give some.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Maybe a handful of things that surprising things that either
top things or surprising things that are stressing those types.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
Okay, so generally we'll talk about we'll talk about morphology
a little bit, which is size and shape, which allows
you to relate easily to this information. Generally, the longest
and leanest of us, so those individuals that are long
and lean ones with a little bit more muscle called crusaders,
and the leanest and the ones with the least amount

(29:24):
of muscle and least amount of fat they're called sensors.
And what we know is that the way that they develop,
they have a very heightened nervous system, so their sensory
perception is increased. There's a lot more noise that comes
from the surrounds and it creates more noise in their brain.

(29:47):
They're more introverted as a result of that as well.
The crusaders are very mission oriented, mission focused on going
this way. The typical triathlete that works ninety hours a week,
comes home, does their five hour ride and does their
trithlon training, has their ten thousand dollar garment bike and
you know, carbon fiber bike with their garment equipment, so

(30:09):
they can track their progress perfectly. Not every crusader does that,
but they're all very mission oriented. I'm just going to
go this way. I'm very driven. And they've got that
lighter triathlete body. And then you've got the high jumpers
and the Ethiopians that are very very slight, incredibly delicate,
and they they they do like a mission the sensors,

(30:31):
but they are much more detail oriented. I want to
know all of the information. I want to have all
of the understanding of this bit of content so that
I can follow the rules and get it into a
process and then just leave me by myself so i
can work in a nice, warm room and that'll make
me happy. So generally, when we're talking about so they're

(30:53):
a couple, I'll just start there and then we have
another couple, and then I'll come back to the stresses.
So the guardian is sort of the opt to a crusader.
They're the biggest, strongest body, world's strongest people. They have
more mass, more muscle, more bone, and they are the
chemicals that make their body bigger also make them more
nurturing and caring, so they are generous, protective. It's like

(31:17):
protect and serve is the principle for them. I'm just
going to take care of my family, my clan. I'm
just going to do that, and that's going to make
me feel good. I'm going to make sure there's stability there.
Whereas the opposite of the sensor, the sense is very
detail oriented, very logic process. Just make sure I've got
all of the information, then let me do my work
by myself. The opposite to that is the connector. The

(31:38):
connector is I just need to connect with everybody. I
need lots of color and lots of light and lots
of sunshine and lots of fun and lots of change,
and I just want to be around people like a
puppy dog at the park. Essentially, that's the connector. And
they have like a if you look at field hockey players,
like those individuals with the slightly thicker body lower to

(32:00):
the ground, they're like, they're not the strongest body, they're
not the gymnastic body, but they're in between those two.
And so they have this very interesting relation with oxytocin
which makes them want to connect with everyone. And being
able to express themselves is really important verbalizing things because
that creates more connection when you verbalize things. So connectors

(32:20):
lots of connection, sensors lots of detail and introversion. Guardians
lots of protection and conservation of energy and look after everybody.
Crusaders is mission over. People just get the job done
no matter what. And then we have activators, which are
adrenalized individuals like let's just get stuck into it, let's
go as hard as we can. And then have a rest,

(32:42):
let's fire up, let's talk really directly at people as well,
like if they get on my soung and tell them
exactly how I feel like. It's outbursts, it's adrenaline. But
they're innovative, they're creative, they're spontaneous, they're really proactive. They
just love putting their energy into life and their early birds.
They wake up there at the crack of it. And

(33:02):
they absolutely love movement as well. And then we got
the diplomat, which is the other end of that, which
is considered calm, not impulsive like them, not driven by steroids,
but driven by consideration and driven by harmony. And how
can I seek for justice and fairness and collect enough

(33:23):
information so that I can be judicious and look after
people and keep everyone in harmony. So we've got six groups.
Everyone fits somewhere in there, but everyone's got an individual makeup.
And so quickly on the stresses, you've got the crusader,
the very mission oriented crusader. They are their whole world.

(33:45):
They are all about what is the job that I'm
working on and how quickly can I get it done?
How can I get into an environment that's going to
make it incredibly efficient for me to get this done.
They get agitated on the express agitation when they're generally stressed.
And what I mean by that is that they've got
a lot of work on. That's okay. They love having

(34:07):
a lot of work on, even on their days off.
They've got a list of stuff that they're going to
do around the house because jobs are life. So then
so firstly they've got a lot on, but then they
might be a little bit cult and then they might
have underslept a little bit, and then they might have
duties that they've got to do for the family, and

(34:30):
then they've got a promotion that they're aiming for, and
they've also got a competition coming up on the weekend.
And it's the over consumption of jobs. It's the general
overwhelm that will eventually break down that I'm not sure
what I should work on first or fatigue them. But

(34:52):
the things that are going to irritate them little things.
Number one, tonality. If a person's using the wrong tone
of voice, that's really going to set them off. I
don't I just don't like that tone. I don't know
what's going on there. The other things, if I don't
have they walk into a meeting and there's no clear outcomes.
It's just we're having a chatt and there's nothing really
that's clear that's come out of it. What the hell
is this happening for? And that'll create stress because their

(35:14):
brain is looking for outcomes and prioritization. So if they're
talking to somebody who's just talking about family and they're
not that interested, it's not aligned with their mission. Anything
that isn't aligned with their mission is taking energy away
from their mission energy and so that's going to be
irritating to them as well. So it's very cognitive. It's
my mission is here? Am I being supported to go

(35:37):
towards my mission? If I'm being dragged away from my
mission in some way, shape or form, that's going to
irritate me. So that's where a lot of their problems
are going to come from and if they can't figure
out their priorities in what order am I going to
do this? But then also a hidden one, and this
is something that they probably don't know about too much,
is that between the times of six and nine pm

(35:59):
no night, that's a time when their ability to get
outcomes is the lowest. And that's because their dopemine and
nora adrenaline pathways are lower. They're not putting out as
much focus and attention state. So if they were to
do work during that time, it costs their brain a
lot more energy to use their brain at that time

(36:21):
of night, and then they end up not sleeping as
well and exhausted the next day because that's actually meant
to be the recovery time for their brain, for example,
So if we were going to maximize recovery, it would
be between six and eight six and nine for that group,
and that then allows these nor adrenaline dopamine pathways to
replenish themselves and also lowers their blood pressure at a

(36:43):
time it's naturally rising. That gives the whole body rest
when otherwise it would be in stress. So this is
where it gets really really powerful. For it's not just
a matter of understanding mission, understanding priorities, but there's a
time of day where this is going to make a
difference as well. And I'm not going to feel it
till tomorrow. I'll feel like I've got a bunch of
work done, but I cooked myself. It's like I ran

(37:03):
an extra ten k's that I shouldn't even now. I'm
really quite sore. That's what's happening mentally, So that's a
sneaky one for them. And then we have the guardians,
and the guardians are the nurturing, protective, strong individuals. The
sneaky stresses for them are going to be family disruption.

(37:25):
So a lot of their biology is thinking, how can
I make sure that my family is safe. And so
let's say they go to work and they realize that
one of their kids has forgotten a lunch item, or
they've forgotten a jacket for today, or they've got a
workmate who's away because they're you know, something bad has

(37:49):
happened to their parents or something like that. Their social
connection their body is for the community. The way that
their hormones work is that they project and want and
protect out to the community. So if someone in the
community is stressed, their energy will rise up. They'll actually
create more cortisols, so they've got more energy so that

(38:10):
they can look after the community. And what they don't
realize is that it's so natural for them to protect
everybody that they can overdo it and burn out and
it becomes a oh, I'm just feeling underappreciated. I'm not
really supported. One of the most powerful things that they
can do is first thing in the morning, they can
look at all of the people that they care about
in their life. They can say, have I done everything

(38:31):
that I can for them today to set them up
to have a good day? Yes? Great tick, And they
can feel good about that, But what will happen. There'll
be a background stress of I'm that person, I know
that they're not okay, and I'm on alert for them.
It's like they're awake all day long now, just in

(38:53):
aid of the stress that somebody else may be going through.
And we also notice that if their life is chaotic
and doesn't have good rhythm, their body is very very
sensitive to poor rhythm of activity, and so they need
things to be happening at the same time each day.
They need their meals to be coming in at the
same time each day, they need their exercise to be

(39:15):
happening at the same time each day. A lot of
their connection to be low maintenance and things like that.
So if their rhythm gets out, this can actually throw
out their blood sugar levels just by them not doing
the same things at the same time each day. They're very,
very sensitive to timing and if they don't have enough
time either with nature, they feel disconnected from nature. This

(39:38):
can create a background stress in their life as well.
Then they go away for the weekend, they're surrounded by nature.
They come back and they just feel so good again.
But they have no idea why, but they have a
genuine part of their ability to support their family is
recognizing that we live in a lush environment where there's
lots and plenty, and if there's lots and plenty, then
my family's going to be okay. I feel connected to nature.
That means I can supprovide for my family now no

(40:00):
longer stressed. So some individuals it's to summarize that it is,
am I doing the right things at the right time
throughout the day? You know? Is there a rhythmicity to
my day? Am I worried about family all day long?
But I think it's normal because of course I'm worried
about my family. But crusaders are not worried about their
family at all, Like they're off on my mission and

(40:22):
I'm all good with that. So the understanding that the
guardians are sensitive to is this is my family, okay?
Is my rhythm? Right? Am I connected to nature? These
are all things that make it even does my home
feel like it's a welcoming place for others to come.

(40:42):
And if it feels like a welcoming place for others
to come, they brings them a lot of satisfaction. I
know I can provide for people to come into my
space now, but if my home isn't right, like we're
moving house or we're renting before we move in and
it's all a bit cluttered, that will create a lot
of stress as well, because the ability for me to
create that safe founder for my family's not there. So
you can see that the hormones create this projection out

(41:04):
to community, and anything that violates the safety and stability
of that family is then going to create a background stress.
But that's not normally the stuff that we're blaming when
we're going for the extra cookie, because that stress creates cravings.
It's I'm dissatisfied, I can't control it, and that creates
dysregulation and blood sugar levels that creates craving. So fascinating,

(41:25):
So then we have the sensor. The sensor will know
this is interesting. The sense of these are the most
delicate high jumping Ethiopian running individuals, the very very delicate
bodies and they what's fascinating. They know better than anybody
what stresses them because their nervous system is so heightened

(41:48):
that they pick up on everything. Someone walks into the
room like three rooms away, it's like, oh, someone's hot.
You know, there's an air conditioning turned on four houses
down the street. It's like, oh, a bit chilli and
my grab by a jacket. But they are hyper sensitive
to the cold. They even bright lights, like geez, that's
really bright lights. They like it dimmer lighting because their
nervous system takes on so much data so easily, and

(42:12):
it creates a lot of noise in their brain. So
if they're trying to focus on their work and it's
cold and there's people in the room and there's chatter
and noise and music going on, all of that is
feeding into the brain to say, oh, deal with this too,
deal with this too, deal with this too. And that
becomes too much. They get overwhelmed and then they get
incredibly fatigued. So they will know I've got to have

(42:35):
a cardigan on. They will know I've got to have
a hot drink in my hand. They will know I've
just got to get away from these people. I've had
an individual go from the highest score I've ever seen
on the Depression of anxiety stress scale to the lowest in
one week, just by moving from an open plan office
into a private room next to the open plan office.

(42:57):
All they did was control their temperature, get warm, get
out of the noise. All of that background noise goes down.
Their nervous system can now focus on what's in charge.
They can now hear their thoughts. They could be more mindful,
and their stress just plummeted, and all because of the environment.
Now that they know that even this is probably think
they don't know. They go to a lot of yoga class,

(43:17):
particularly warm yoga classes, because that mind body connection is
actually very satisfying for them. But then then they might
follow a raw vegan diet, and this can actually be
a problem because they don't digest as well and they
actually need well cooked, warm foods, and if it's not
well cooked protein, particularly, it can create headaches. And then
they're trying all of these different remedies eating their raw

(43:40):
probably not vegan diets in the fact that it's meat.
But I'm eating this steak, I'm eating this chicken, I'm
eating this whatever. It's not slow cooked and easy to digest,
and I've got these headaches and I've got no idea why,
And it can truly be just I'm not digesting my
food well enough because we know that their hydrochloric acid
is a little bit lower. So in this way, you know,

(44:00):
work is the stress actually works, not the stress at all.
Get a private room and you're fine. It's all of
the normal lifetime noise, normal life noise that's happening, that's
actually creating that strain. Whereas you put the connector who's
the very social upbeat, let's have fun, let's just get
involved with everybody that oxytocin sensitive body. You put them

(44:23):
into the open plan office and they absolutely thrive. You
put them in an office by themselves, and all of
their energy just drops out of them. But one of
the things that's really interesting with connectors is they have
this need to have to express their thoughts, and unless
they express their thoughts, they can't clarify their mind. And

(44:44):
so a lot of stress can come for a connector
who's living in a workplace. Let's say they work with
a bunch of engineers who are often not connectors. By
the way, all the connectors that did went through engineering
training end up being the salespeople because they're the people
people that don't need to know the technical information. I
have many case studies that prove that true. So when
you have that individual surrounded by engineers, they they're there

(45:09):
just to try and increase and and and get everyone upbeat.
But all the engineers are quite introverted, and so the introversion.
Introversion of the engineers makes them think, oh, I've got
to be introverted too, because they're very socially sensitive. I
want to be like everybody else. And so now they're
not expressing themselves and they're trying to figure stuff out

(45:30):
in their brain because they're watching everybody else do that.
That creates stress, and it creates just a loop of
I'm I'm not getting where I want to. So even
not being able to fully express yourself is a really
big thing for a connector. So much so I've had
individuals that have had have experienced social strain. They then

(45:54):
don't express themselves anymore, they shut themselves away from their friends.
All they had to do was actually just go and
connect with a friend and share with them what's going on.
So I've just got to talk this out with somebody.
You don't need to comment it, you don't need to
fix on it. I've just got to get it out
of my brain. And as soon as they talk it
out they feel good. But then if they pick up
judgment from the other person, because the other person doesn't

(46:16):
know how to read it, doesn't know how to deal
with that information that's just been shared, even though all
they've got to do is just leave it alone and
let it travel out of their mouth and keep going
past them. If they determine some sort of judgment, they'll go, oh,
I've now lost my connection with this person, and that
then creates a stress because they've got less oxytocin, Whereas
if someone is just sitting there going yeah, yeah, yeah,

(46:38):
Oh that's awesome. I'm so glad you shared that. Yes,
I totally understand, I totally get what's going on, it's
completely relieving for them. So the subtlety in I need
to verbalize my thoughts. Someone needs to let you verbalize
your thoughts without judgment and not everyone's up for that
all of the time. So everyone's here to fix problems.

(46:59):
Everyone's to throw their two cents in when some of
the background stress sometimes for them can just be I
can't see a friendly face who's just going to love
me no matter what, and that's a big deal, whereas
that that doesn't matter so much for the Crusaders. They're like, yeah,
I know what I know, and I don't need you
to love me. I'm just going to keep going on
my mission anyway, and I feel fine with that. So
they just that subtlety in not only do I need

(47:23):
to share my thoughts, but I need someone who's going
to receive it, and you need to book appointments with
those people. Book appointments with a walk and a talk
where you can just verbalize it and everyone knows you're
just verbalizing and you're getting it out. That's can be
one of the most relieving things for them through and
I guess for them as well. Hot humid winds is

(47:44):
also something that's really frustrating for them. So they go
to the summer comes round, or they go to the
tropics and it's a really hot wind that suppressing humidity
is really draining for them and can make them really irritable.
Even winter, their mood will go down because there's less light.
If they walk into a room and there's less visual color,

(48:07):
that will make them feel less good because they're really
really sensitive to brightness in their visual sphere. So it's
not just the social connection, but it's also the climate.
It's also the brightness. It's even the season that they
love sunshine. It's all about sunshine metaphorically and literally for them.
And then we've got the last couple. I'll do the

(48:29):
last couple and then I'll have a pause, unless you
want to jump in with something there, Tiff.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
No, I've got lots of notes, so you keep going.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Okay, good stuff. And then the activator is their life
is all about just going, I've got to go. And
what they don't realize is that they're driving themselves forward
with adrenaline. All they've got to do is switch their
adrenaline off. They need an adrenaline break, and that adrenaline
break comes from lying flat on your back for fifteen minutes,

(48:56):
which turns off your adrenal signaling. Or it could be
actually sitting down to have a meal, or it could
be that they're not eating enough. That's what's causing the
stress because they get really angry. The activators are the
hangriy of people, and so if but often they're eating
their food on the go so they don't get the
calmness that the food brings. And this is one of

(49:16):
the most important things as to why they need to
eat frequently, not just because they're angry, but because we
need to switch their adrenaline off every two hours. And
a lot of activators that are parents or activators that
are caring for people, they go, jeez, why am I
so bored of people after twenty minutes or after five
minutes of them talking, because there's no excitement anymore. This
doesn't match me. Ah, this person's just frustrating me. So

(49:39):
they go, noh, no, that's all right, and you can
do it with your kids as well. You know, Oh,
I'm going to parent for twenty minutes like a legend,
and then I don't on board of these kids. Now
I've got to go do something else. And this is
because they don't realize that they've got an up and
down rhythm. It's very up and then it's very down.
And if they honor that, they're going to go, well,
I'm going to parent for twenty minutes a pair of

(50:00):
the hell out of this twenty minutes and they're gonna say, okay,
your kids play now, and I'm going to go for
twenty minutes. I'm gonna go do my thing and enjoy myself,
and then I'll come back and I'll do something a
bit more intense when I see some excitement that I
can add in or whatever it might be. But there's
a lot of judgment in the activator self judgment because
they're fiery, because they say things directly, and because their

(50:24):
body says, oh, I can do that. They don't realize
how important the rest periods are. They also don't realize
how they judge themselves for being too firey or being
too angry, particularly if they've got a nice calm partner
who's always managed and steady or whatever it might be.
So what's wrong with me? There's actually nothing wrong with them.

(50:44):
So a lot of self judgment, a lot of self
criticism comes with the activators because they fire up and
say things they might not feel great about. Later. They
generally are burnt out because they're not allowing themselves to
have recovery throughout the day just by having regular meals
and sitting down for ten minutes with no tech, you know,
no scrolling for ten minutes and eat your food. It's

(51:06):
amazing what happens to their life when they do those things,
so chewing well, sitting to eat. The other things that
can really irritate them will be just a lack of movement.
I'm not able to move enough. I want to move.
I've been sitting down too long. I've got to do

(51:27):
something explosive. Even cross country running can be irritating for
this individual. It's like slow, like steady stuff for a
long time, irritating, And it can be I've got to
sit in a two hour meeting. They know that they're
irritated by the meeting, but they just think the person's boring.
It's not that they need up and down in their life,
and if they're not getting that up and down, it
creates a frustration. And then we have the diplomat. The

(51:49):
diplomats are hyper sensitive to place. They live in the
fourth floor of an inner city building. Yull immediately, very
quickly go into a state of unhappiness because they need
lots and lots of nature. They need to be in
close contact to nature a lot of the time, and
they don't feel normal without it. They are the ones
that are very sensitive their digestive system. If they're eating

(52:10):
things in the wrong order and things over ferment, they're
more likely to feel that strain. They don't do well
in dry environments. If they've moved out west, it blocks
up and gives them congestion and can really give them
a bit of fogginess. And just adding a humidifier to
their house can actually make a huge difference to the

(52:31):
overall happiness that they have as well. So lightly humored,
cooler environments are great. Anything else is a little bit
more stressful. So place really really matters to them. And
then the ownership of time is really important to a diplomat.
I want to be on the right schedule. I want
to be on my schedule. I want to follow this

(52:53):
plan that I've got and you've violated my time, or
you've caught me in the morning and I'm not a
morning person and that's really stressing me out. Or you've
changed plans without giving me notice. That really stresses me
out because now I can't complete things on my schedule.
A there's hard disharmony in the friendship group that I have.

(53:14):
That's going to create a lot more stress for that
person because they're all about harmony and things being fair
and just. They and then you know they come into
contact with an activator and they come at them really directly,
and they sit there frozen face, and I think that
was all just too intense, and I don't understand it,
Like it doesn't make sense why this person is so aggressive.
So obviously we've got hopefully that gives you a bit

(53:37):
of a rounded understanding. And probably what I wanted you
to take out of that is it's the physical environment
that you're in. It can be the temperature that you're experiencing.
It can be the food that you're eating. It can
be the movement that you're doing or not doing. It
could be the way that you're eating food. It could
be the way that you're putting your brain to work.
It could be the way that you are seated at work.
All of these things are creating little stress that signal

(54:01):
to our brain something's not right about this environment, and
it gets perceived the same as you know, one plus
three equalling five. It's like, ah, it's just something's wrong
about that. I don't get it, and that little bit
of discomfort that's happening all day long. So much so
I've seen people, you know, like a diplomatic declutter their
house and all of a sudden, most of their background

(54:22):
stress goes away because they just needed a nice, clear,
ordered space. I've had an activator leader who is getting
the worst feedback that she's ever had from her staff
because she's only doing meetings between five to six pm
at night, when she's out of energy and she's an
early bird, and she's not realizing why she's feeling so
sharp and so pointed. So time is the thing. It's

(54:44):
just there are so many things, but this lens allows
us to say, right, well, what's going to be caused
the most stress and where can we start first.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
I never ever tire of listening to you talk about it.
I wrote down a few things I thought i'd ask.
One is and this When you were talking about the connector,
I was thinking about is this applies to all the types,
but I was thinking of a particular connector, right you
were talking about that needing to express and say things,

(55:17):
And I'm thinking about a connector that I know who has,
and obviously I won't name or identify them. That they
have their own mental health medication, always have been for
a very long time. Their home environment, whilst being outwardly pleasant,
is not very connected, so there's not a lot of

(55:39):
being able to be heard in that environment. It's placid.
It's fine, but it's not amazing. And they are such
a you know, they are such a connector outside of
that and I watch so I was thinking about how
much in your experience we can really pull the leavers
of mental health diagnose or things that people are being

(56:02):
medicated for when it's some of these funny little like
I just was picturing that going without knowing that about
that person, I can look at their lifestyle and their
behaviors of how they do life and place a lot
of judgment on like most people, like we do. If
we look at a person and go, that's how they're living. Oh,

(56:24):
that's you know, all the judgment, and then you know
their biology and go, that's exactly what they're doing. They're
just they're just doing life as best they can.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
But then because there's this big rock that's missing they're
being medicated, maybe a lot of that medication wouldn't be
required if they could get to the heart of that.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Yeah. And so this is what's so fascinating about mental
health in general. So when someone gets diagnosed with a
mental health problem or like a condition, what they diagnose
on is is behavior. So they diagnose on how someone acts.
And you know, we've been talking about it the whole time.
You can catch a bad wind, you know, and on

(57:07):
the back of your neck, and you might be sitting
in the wrong office, and now your behavior changes because
your biology has been placed under stress. And what's so
fascinating about this. So there's two elements to it. One
is the continuum of mental health and the other one
is how we're actually diagnosing mental health. So the first

(57:28):
thing with the continuum is that poor mental health is
all of the behavior of like, I'm worried about the future,
I'm find hard to have positive thoughts, i am not
finding pleasure in things, I'm not motivated to do things,
I'm lacking drive, Like there's in the discent fire. There's
a whole bunch of criteria behaviors that say you're in

(57:51):
poor mental health. Now, if you take a person, let's
say that you take Ethiopian, Yeah, skinny, little person that
doesn't have as much muscle tissue. There's nothing wrong with skinniness,
by the way, it's just some bodies are skinnier than
others and you put them into an environment that they
don't like. Let's say it's Melbourne winter on a construction

(58:15):
site where they've got to do really, really heavy lifting
in the morning. Their body is not designed for heavy lifting,
it's designed for endurance running, and they're surrounded by just
constant construction noise all of the time, which is making
their nervous system rattle. After a while, they'll go into
a depression because I am exhausted from managing this environment

(58:36):
and my body have to get through this environment. We'll
see this. We see other individuals that are really really social,
that are working by themselves at home, and they'll go
into a depression and they'll have months of where they
just feel awful. They don't really know what's wrong with them,
and it's because they're just lacking that connection. They're in
an environment that doesn't match them. This idea of environmental

(58:59):
mismap much. If you know what your optimal environment is
and you put yourself into that optimal environment, it's amazing
what happens to your sense your physiological health, which then
changes the way that you are interacting. Now. Of course,
there are very real psychological drivers for why I don't
feel good or why I've convinced that I'm not worthy,

(59:21):
and many of those different things that come up as well,
and I'm not diminishing that at all. Those become a
lot louder when your body is physiologically stressed, and they
also contribute to that physiological strain as well because they
feed down. So that's one element of it is if
we understand our environment, our best environment, we are going
to have a much greater chance of feeling better physiologically

(59:44):
and that supports our mental health as well. And you
can think about that. I'm on holidays on an island
which I love, with friends that I love, doing activities
like sports and jet skiing and all of that other
stuff which I love. I feel pretty good here. You know,
there's the environment is a match for me, whereas if
you're in an environment that doesn't match, there's a strain

(01:00:07):
on that and overload and overwhelmed that creates fatigue and tiredness.
The fascinating thing of that is when you go to
great mental health. What is great mental health? And when
you look at the positive, I like the positive psychology's
definition of great mental health, and that is essentially you

(01:00:27):
are the first good mental health is you've got the
good life. That's like life is nice, life's pleasant, life's
easy life's no stress, and then there's the meaningful life
and the contributing life. So these are the upgrades of

(01:00:47):
that of not just I am having a nice life,
but rather now I'm using my natural strengths. That's another
version or that another upgrade of not only is it nice,
but I'm now using my natural strengths. And then I'm
using my natural strengths to accomplish something meaningful and I'm
contributing back to other people. So if you could say, hey,
I'm in bad health or bad mental health, if you

(01:01:11):
then turn up the next few days and you start
engaging in an environment that matches you, you're using your natural
strengths and you're contributing and giving to others. This is
why we see charity work and that kind of support
work being so powerful for mental health because when you're
doing something meaningful is it actually represents the physiology of good,
great mental health as well. So to bring this back

(01:01:35):
to your example, is that you've got a person that's
mismatched with their environment. You know, you can see that
they've got a particular nature, but in a particular area
of their life there's a big mismatch. So in that environment,
that's going to create less motivation, less drive because I
feel less like myself. And this is what's so beautiful
is if you've got two people that understand that, and

(01:01:55):
then you can start to work on, well, how can
we make this more like you? What are the small
things that I can do to make this feel like
your best environment as well? It's amazing how that can
drastically change very very quickly. So we talk about that
a lot in the work that we do. We've seen
a lot of benefits with just changing a person's place

(01:02:15):
where they sit. Just a person knowing what stresses them
can actually significantly reduce their stress levels as well, and
them knowing what their natural strengths are and working in
their natural strengths and working in a way that's contributing
to people. This is all of the stuff that we
find very very important. That's where people start to get

(01:02:37):
into their best selves.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Have you done with all of the I guess research
and studies you've done with people for using pH three sixty,
have you done or can you talk about where you've
done it with zero emphasis for those participants on body
on physical on body weight and what was their experience

(01:03:03):
with physical changes? Because I feel one of the challenges
can be especially with my background. A lot of people
are coming in with my bodi's my body's changed and
I can't figure it out now and it's not working anymore.
And sometimes these small simple things it's delivering that information

(01:03:25):
is hard to and once you once you hear it
and have a respect for it, it makes the world
of difference. My ability to lay down on my back
for fifteen minutes and feel the effect of that. Now
I know that's my thing, whereas before that I didn't
have access to that at all, But I had to wait,
like I had to hear it a few times before
I'd go, Okay, I'll give it a go. It's hard

(01:03:48):
to take the emphasis of food and movement when that's
maybe not the priority. So can you talk about yeah,
anything you've got on.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
That, Yes, yes, so so many things. So when I'm
thinking about supporting somebody with their weight, like the weight
is a byproduct of my body is no longer in stress.
So people who have got a body that naturally accumulates

(01:04:16):
mass will do so when their body has stress. And
you can eat the same amount of calories but not
lose weight. In some camps, some places gain weight purely
because there is a lot of stress that's slowing the
rest of metabolism down. That creates a conservation. Similarly, another
individual understress will lose weight. My mum's a sensor, and

(01:04:37):
they lose weight as soon as they go into stress.
This is sort of how their body operates. They find
it hard to hold weight on for example. So just
with that frame, weight is just an indication of stress,
and it just means different things for different people. When
I'm often starting with clients, I'm thinking about all right. Firstly,

(01:04:58):
let's say that I take a diplomatic pople that's are
very sensitive to place, and the first thing I'll say
is are there any rooms at home that you need
to de clutter? And they go, oh, that's a really
weird question. Because I'm here for food advice. I say,
just play with me. They go home, they clean that
thing up. It's like their whole life changes. It's like
this background noise. It's like having the TV on, you know,

(01:05:21):
like a really strange kind of whistling sound. Then you
turn off and you go, oh my god, that's so
nice that that's off. Now that's what clutter is for them,
and they can just feel this sense of relief come
over their body. That then gives them more energy to
wake up in the morning. That then makes their mind
clearer when they're trying to make decisions around their food

(01:05:41):
or when they're trying to be motivated, they're not having
to manage pushing that the mess to one side and
focus on exercise. They can just the mess isn't there anymore.
It's like they've got all of this space in their mind.
We have other individuals like it, connect as, for example,
the hypersocial ones when not let's say, we don't even
talk about food and exercise. The advice that we give

(01:06:04):
to connectors is just make sure you're having meals with somebody.
Make sure you're having meals with a person. There's lots
of research to say if you're laughing and having a
nice time during a meal, your blood sugar response is
better than if you aren't laughing, for example. And this
is a body that's quite sensitive to both of those things,
and so we've seen people just start socializing at meal times.

(01:06:27):
This creates a distress for their system because the oxytocin
offsets the cortisol. Essentially, that then leads to weight loss.
We've seen three kilos of weight come off a person
just because they've started socializing with their meal times and
eating the same food, not even changing their food. We've
had I've had individuals that like septically sensors. The very

(01:06:51):
cold sensitive individuals either get a clear private room that
they can work in, or they just come home and
have a bath each night where they can completely decompress,
where it's warm, where it's nice, where their sensory system
isn't up and rampant, but they can actually just relax.

(01:07:14):
That completely recovers them. It also keeps their body nice
and warm. Them being cold from five pm at night
will not fully trigger their immune system, and then they
wake up and they're getting sick really regularly. And so
the reason why they're not holding muscle tissue on is
because there isn't sleeping correctly because it's too cold at night,
and they haven't arrested their nervous system. And so them
just engaging a nervous system rest then allows their body

(01:07:37):
to warm up, allows their body to mount an appropriate
immune response. That means that they then head infections off
at the paths, which means they stay energized like and
then I go what else can I think of here?
And then a guardian that's right, a guardian very focused
on the family. We've had. I've had a very joint

(01:08:00):
pained rheumatoid arthritic patient who just didn't feel connected to
her mum and didn't and a mum was a big
part of her clan, you know, her community, and guardians
are very sensitive to that. She went through a process
of actually appreciating and understanding her mum. And what happened

(01:08:21):
over the next from like, she stood up after that
session and her rheumatoid arthritic pain had gone in ernath
for the first time in four years. It wasn't something
that I was expecting, but just the stress that she
was holding in her body around the people in her
life because she didn't feel connected to them. And then
what happens is if you reduce that stress, you reduce

(01:08:43):
the cortisol, you make the insulince signal better, and now
we start seeing some weight loss as well. I've seen
the same sort of thing go when you've got this mum,
a guardian mom that's just looking after people, looking after people,
looking after people, and then they finally get four hours
just to chill out by themselves and it just completely
resets them. It allows them to to see that the
world is not burning and that their family is going
to survive the day, and this can really calm them down.

(01:09:06):
This can also create some really wonderful change. On the
other hand, I've seen best friends break up and a
guardian hold an extra five kilos and so aware of
everything that was going on from her perspective, still could
not shift that weight because her body was feeling the
loss of that brand. It was creating a stress that
was holding extra fluid until she finally over time allowed

(01:09:29):
that to be released. Was the weight released. So there's
so many things that are driving the body to compensate,
and the weight is just a compensation. So if you
understand what your body's trying to cope with, you can
put things in place that just dim down that background
noise or at least get rid of the background noise
so that you're not having to stay attentive to it

(01:09:49):
and use all of that energy to do so.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Thank you, that's so good. And last little question, do
you have any I guess opinion from through your lens
of personalized health of the effects of things when people
are choosing to take waigobi or ozm pics and when
people are using that as a way to manipulate their
weight loss, what efflix does it have?

Speaker 3 (01:10:14):
Yeah. I only see about two or three clients at
a time nowadays, and two or three of them.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Are well that's tandy right now.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
Yeah. What's so fascinating is because they the one of
the individuals she's recommended to keep upping her dose because
that's what the prescription is. She's gone up a dose,
but we've done a particular protocol, so it's a particularly
restricted eating pattern that's specific to her. And now she's
on normal foods. Her appetite has normalized, and now this
medication is actually making her not able to eat anything,

(01:10:46):
so she's at the risk, in fact, she is under
eating as a result of this thing being too intense.
And so GILP one is this really really powerful peptide
that's really great for influencing appetite and makes you feel
full very very easily. But the reason that that's a
problem is that it's being it's not signaling correctly because

(01:11:08):
there's inflammation and stress and disconnection between your pancreas and
your liver and higher quartersile levels. But if you go
through the process of actually reducing those things down and
improving the health of the liver and the way that
the pancreas is releasing and the insulin sensitivity, then that
chemical works fine, and appetite actually returns to normal, and

(01:11:28):
then the medication can be doing too much. And that's
exactly what I'm seeing right now, is that you can't eat.
So this is where if we get the balance of
the body right, then these peptides work correctly. And it's
the same thing that goes for leptin. Leptins another one.
You know, it's it's you get inch you get resistant
to leptin, which is a satiating hormon. It's like, yeah,

(01:11:50):
if I've got lots of leptin and I'm receiving it,
then I feel satisfied. So but what happens with inchulin resistance,
you also get leptin resistance. So even though there's lots
of leptin being realised, you don't pick it up. But
if you clear up all of those pathways just by
getting the body back out of stress and doing the
right things for them, then it now signals better and
you don't need another another blocker for that signal anymore.

(01:12:12):
And this is where we can return people back to
their own internal cues and own internal signals, and that's
that's where it's very important.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
So a client who is a guardian, who is explorer,
they've used it in the past where gob and they're
looking to get back on it for a period of time. However,
we they are they don't have much of an appetite,
and we are suspecting that for the amount of activity
and physicality of their job that they're perhaps not eating

(01:12:41):
enough thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
Yes, if they're not eating enough, it's going to crash
their metabolism. This is where the you need to if
you're if you're doing that and you're seeing that it's
they're not meeting needs. You need to do a good
calorie count and they need to be hitting decent amounts.
And the number of times I work with a number
of coaches are brilliant at it. I think Hanna may

(01:13:06):
have even been on the podcast at one point though
she does a whole lot of work in the space.
But there's some really interesting data looking at let's say
you're following eight hundred col. Your body will drop its
metabolism to meet the eight hundred col but actually it
has the capacity of running it eighteen hundred, and you

(01:13:27):
can give them fifteen hundred calories and they don't lose
any weight, or they don't gain weight either, but their
metabolism then returns to fifteen hundred. You put them back
on eight hundred and they lose quite a lot of weight.
So if you drop, if you keep dropping calorie amounts,
metabolism will keep following it because it doesn't want to
staff to death. And so you need to be very,

(01:13:47):
very conscious. And the tendency is to say, oh, good,
I'm eating less. Great, that means I'll lose weight faster.
But what it can do is it can really damage
thyroid signaling because now the tharoad goes, oh, there's no food.
I need to really put the brakes on my metabolism here.
And so then you start getting a thyroid in balance
because the food's not enough. So you want to be

(01:14:11):
I mean, it's unfortunately it's not spoken about this way.
But let's say that you've got an out of control
appetite and the only way you can control it is
to control your appetite for a month on this drug. Right, ye, great,
Then do all of the things that you can to
clear up the metabolism and then come back off the drug.
But this is where I'm not a doctor of that

(01:14:32):
kind and I'm not giving medical advice for that, but
it would be great if if the body is working correctly,
then the management of cravings, the management of hunger is
it should be done internally.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
To the best of your knowledge. If that person is
not dealing with hunger or cravings, is there any benefit
to that drug in their system at all?

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
If there's no cravings and if they're able to consciously
control their food intake and they can be doing the
things that are appropriate for them. I mean, there's any
number of things that you can control your appetite with
and you can support your weight loss with. Yeah, there
would be some arguments to say that just being on
the medication may support generally. However, if you can do

(01:15:23):
it without it, then you're dodging a whole lot of
side effects. That would be like there's side effects with
all of these things. Like it's you're changing one little
pathway and amongst thousands of pathways. It's not the ideal
way to go.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
Yeah, yeah, all right, I'll let you to go now
before you send me a bill, Doc Cam I love it.
This has been a really amazing chat. Thank you so much.
Any resources that you would like to share, just.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
Well, you can reach me on the Shay dot Group website,
Shay Group, Shae Group, doctor car McDonald and all of
the stuff that we do for health profession those workplaces,
learning gym's just to make precision health more accessible to everybody,
better results for everybody, better education for everybody, all of
that stuff there.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Amazing. Thanks mate, Thanks everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.

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Sneaky Stress Signals: The Subtle Art of Falling Apart | Dr. Cam McDonald - 905

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Sneaky Stress Signals: The Subtle Art of Falling Apart | Dr. Cam McDonald - 905