August 17, 2025 • 53 mins
She’s back! And this time Kel and I are diving into all the big, scary, liberating stuff... like finding your voice, owning your truth, and saying 'no' without choking on it. We talk people-pleasing, the opposite of 'nice', why boundaries feel like a boxing match, and how sometimes the metaphorical possum you’ve been chasing leaves you wondering what the hell to do next.
Kel gives us the down-low on going from painfully shy and introverted to taking her seat at the table and speaking up in rooms that once terrified her. We talk about masks, conditioning, social anxiety, creativity, and the strange safety of telling the internet what you can’t yet tell your best mate. This one’s about freedom, visibility, and doing the thing scared… because regret is far more uncomfortable than honesty.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm Tiff. This is role with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family
Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. She's back, She's back.
(00:54):
It's Kelly Smith.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hey, how you going.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You're addicted?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Addicted? I am am.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
To the mic? What a revolution.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's it's so much fun. I it was very interesting
because I think it was what was it two weeks
ago that both of the episodes, the one with you
on the one with Craig came out on the same day.
You Can't shut me Up? It's great?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Are you just on are on podcasting Cloud nine?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
On that day I was and it was like, wow,
is this is this real, like, this is something that
you know, I've always wanted to do, and now there's
two of my absolute favorites that I've managed to you know, invade.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And then just.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Random people were talking to me about it. They're like,
I saw this online and I think it's really cool.
And I'm like, oh, wow, that's really unexpected. So yeah,
it's been it's been really cool.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I love that. And what you expected or what? Like,
what's it? What are your plans? What does it feel like? Now?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It feels like I need to keep the momentum going
and do something really for myself. So I think I've
always been quite creative, and then that probably got sidelined
a bit with work and just other things and life
and you know stuff. And now I'm like, okay, well
let's just keep that momentum going. So I'm writing a
(02:22):
lot more, which and that's my overall kind of passion
is to write. I feel like one day there might
be a novel, and so just really pushing that. And
then for fun, I've been telling everyone that I'm just
starting to ship post to TikTok every day. So I
(02:44):
when I was at Uni, I studied film and so
I learned you know all about film techniques and editing
and all that kind of stuff, and now I've basically
got all of that in my phone, so, you know,
rather than just mindlessly scrolling, it's like, well, why don't
I just get a bit creative? So that's what I've
been doing.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So yeah, mean my dog carrying on in the background
a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I just muted for a
bit then because she's losing it because, in true to form,
the delivery dude rings the bell straight after I hit
record on a podcast. It's a bit of a technique
we've worked on here. I think they're in sync with
me now. They're like, she's on, let's go, let's.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Go, let's go. And look, I mean, Luna did make
an appearance yesterday in your tutorial of what not to
do with podcasting, So it's it's part.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I'm just rolling with it these days. I'm like, you
know what if they want to get involved, those animals
and mine, they're going to get involved. Did you see
what Luna did yesterday?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
No? I know, possible was the possum?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I know you're yeah, the possum. Yeah, So I'm walking
for everyone listening, I am walking along. I've just gone
out to take her for a walk, and we start
strolling up the sidewalk. Next minute, she launches six ft
into the air and when I look down, she is
at my feet with apossent in her mouth. You know,
when a split second feels like ten minutes, like so much.
(04:09):
My cognition went to high speed, high alert, and I
had so many, so many thoughts in that moment. It
was like, what do I do here? What's my role?
What is she going to do? What happens? Can it
bite her? Will she kill it? Is there going to
be blood? Is there going to like? What what do
I do?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
And so what was the result?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I did a little video on it today because it's
because I haven't stop thinking about it. She kind of
looked a bit stunned, like, oh oh, I didn't know
what to do with this now. So she put it there,
she let it go, and it's scurried off, you know,
I'm going. It made me think of how how we react,
(04:54):
like something triggers us, or we have a reaction to
things that were hardwired for, or we the things, or
we want things, or we do things, and then when
we get there, when it happens, we don't really know
what to do with it, and we because we don't
really analyze what our driver is, We don't always know
why we're doing what we do. We just driven. Sometimes
we're just driven or hardwired, like we're driven towards success
(05:17):
because there's something inside is that says I need connection
and belonging and somewhere in the back of our psyche says,
this is how you get it because society has told
me that I go do this, and I say this,
and I get this job, and then we get the
job and we sit in the middle of it and
we're like, what do I do with this? What do
I do with this? Possibly in my mouth now, Yeah,
(05:38):
Like it's it's a that's a fair.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Point though, like you know, what is it that you
do when you finally get what you want? And is
it you know, you get what you want and you realize, oh,
actually I don't want that. So she lets the possum go, Yeah,
that's it's a really interesting way of looking at it.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, and just that whole driver for it is like
that's just in the instincts of a dog and their
role and what they've done for their whole life, not
her life. She's lived in a house with a family,
and then in an apartment with one human which is
me and a cat. So it's like, yep, there are
other animals that aren't her that she's not allowed to eat.
(06:20):
But when we go out of a night, even just
the scent of those nocturnal animals, she is pinging off
the walls on high alert, like that is so hardwired
into them. You just go. It's so fascinating, and John,
it made me really introspective about all of the unconscious
stuff in human behavior in the same way. But we
(06:43):
have the ability to be introspective and then to rewire
how we condition, how our conditioning is, whereas dogs can't
do that unless we play a part in the doing. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Really interesting, So there you go.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Maybe you need the adventure is to catch a possum.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Mate, Well, it's figure.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Chasing a possum. That's this whole, this whole getting beyond
the mic and this whole creating content. This is your possum.
But you know, unlike Luna, you've got a bit of
an idea about why you want to do it and
what you're going to do when you get the possum
in your mouth.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Maybe well, maybe.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Let's not do what we did last time we're going
to talk about a topic. You're the topic guru. What
have you got for us?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Well, when I first started chatting with you, and when
I was having actual like mentoring sessions with you, which
were amazing, a lot of it was around being able
to use my voice and use it in the right
way and you know, speak up for myself, stand up
for myself, be able to say things in the moment,
which I think it's something that a lot of people
(07:51):
deal with. They can go I should have said that,
or I should have responded this way, and I didn't
because I was in shock or I just didn't know
how to respond. And for me, a lot of that
was around and still is around like people pleasing and
just wanting, you know, to have everyone like me and
to be nice about things and not actually say no
or say no I can't or you know, I don't
(08:13):
agree with that. And so the first time we spoke,
you said what's the opposite of nice? And I was like,
is it nasty? And it wasn't, And so I really
wanted to unpack that and like get into that a
little bit more, just in the sense of being able
(08:33):
to use your voice in the right way and at
the right moment. I know there's a lot online, you know,
coaching around this and then just having conversations with people
where they're like, I should have said that, you know,
I had this response in mind, but I just I
couldn't get it out at the time. So and I
think it comes back to that, you know, just people
(08:54):
pleasing and wanting to be nice all the time. So, yeah,
what do you got.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Oh nte. I loved it that it was doctor Hannah
Corral that first said that, like introduced me to the
concept of that in a conversation we had on the show.
And it's funny because as you started talking about this,
I'm like, it's so ties in with the bossom thing,
you know. It's like, it's the reaction to the conditioning
(09:18):
that we haven't questioned. It's the place that we land
when the metaphorical possum, which is probably a comment or
a situation or circumstance that we're thrown into the middle of,
and then we have a reaction which is not thought
out and not how we want it to be. So
that's cool. How did it, I mean, for the sake
(09:39):
of everyone else? Yeah, So the answer to the what's
the opposite of nice was honest. So when you're being nice,
you're deliberately, you're trying to pander to other people's feelings,
you're trying not to offend, do all of the things.
But the opposite of that is just being honest. And
(10:01):
usually when we're being nice, we're not being honest where
we're pit a patterning around the edges of that. And
it's like, I talk so much to so many clients
and people about boundaries, and probably because for me they
were such a struggle. Like for me when I did
(10:22):
a lot of thinking about this weird ass boxing ring
thing that I fell in love with and getting punched
in the face. And one of the first things when
I started to analyze that environment and go, what is
it about that? What is it? Why would someone feel
safe or at home or comfortable in a place where
(10:42):
someone's standing in front of them trying to punch them
in the face and hurt them. And the two first
things that landed for me were honesty invisibility, So that
person's not lying, they're standing in front of me, in
front of other people, and they're saying I'm here and
I'm going to punch you in the face. I'm not
pretending to be a friend. I'm your opponent. But then
(11:05):
I lay it on top of that was and there
are boundaries, and I knew them because they were told
to me. I didn't have to set them, and they
were clear, you can do it this way. These are
the rules. This is what happens. There's a bell, you
hit each other. You can do this, you can't do that.
Go And so I knew very clearly what was appropriate
(11:26):
and okay and how someone was allowed to touch me
and I was allowed to touch them and what was
not okay. And I feel like when I look back
at my upbringing in life, I lacked the ability to
know that. And I also lacked the ability to trust
my own body. So that kind of instinct around it
(11:47):
just wasn't there. And that's where we start being nice
and not being honest because we never analyze it.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, And that's such a wonderful way of
describing it, right, Like, once you've got the rules and
you know how to play, then that's fine. Like you
know that there's going to be a certain outcome, you
know the boundaries that you have to stay within. But
it's so interesting when you get faced with situations where
(12:14):
you're opposite people who don't have those boundaries and don't
stick within the rules, and I guess, in effect do
what they want, treat people how they want, which isn't
necessarily in a good way, and you kind of go,
why am I being nice to this person? Why am
I not being honest with how I am and what
(12:37):
I think and how this person's making me feel, or
even you know, just on that, you know, owning that
they're triggering some sort of reaction in you. Yeah, it's
an interesting one to be able to have those social
boundaries that you kind of go most people have them,
(13:00):
you know, in general, there's kind of ways to treat people,
you know, just don't go out of your way to
be an asshole, just you know, go about you know,
your business in the world. But then you come across
these people who challenge those kind of societal norms, and yeah,
it was very interesting having that conversation with you because
(13:21):
it made me kind of go, Okay, well, if I'm
being honest, then that's being true to who I am,
because that's one of my core values and that really
helped me in situations where I did have to use
my voice in a different way and say, hold up,
that behavior isn't okay and I won't tolerate it. And
I actually was able to and it was quite it
(13:44):
was quite empowering. But I certainly like I came away
from it going oh, did I really just do that?
Did I really just say that? And I did. I
managed to do it. But then you know, there's also
that kind of cycle of thinking was that the right
thing to do? Because having not it before, so you
still second guess and then I guess it was just
a bit more practice around No, I can actually say
(14:07):
this as long as I'm being true to myself, as
long as I'm being honest about what I'm saying, then
that's okay. So it was kind of giving the green
light of you can say that. You can do that
so long as it's honest and it's coming from a
place of not being mean about it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm so big on that concept of integrity
and going like, what are my intentions and what is
my and does it alignt? Do I have integrity around this?
But I'd be interested to hear how so, like we
have those conversations back when we had them, what was
(14:46):
it like for you leaving those conversations, processing that, and
then the opportunities to implement it presenting themselves, because I.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Know that.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Being able to get the logic around what's happening is
one thing, but then the ability to implement it in
life and implement it in the moments when they happen,
that's a bit of a process. It's not like you
just walk out the door after a conversation, walk into
work the next day, come up with her or wherever
(15:19):
you're going work, sport, bloody, next door neighbor Bob, and
have an interaction and change. Like usually you land somewhere
and you walk away and you go, shit, that was
a moment, and then you land somewhere, and then halfway
through it you're like, now would be the time, but
(15:41):
you're still kind of not there. You're still a bit
like or. And then maybe the third time you walk
in and you're waiting because you know you're going to
land somewhere and you're able to do it. So for you,
what was it?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Like? I think, to use your metaphor of the boxing,
it's like one of those movies where you see the
montage of the person training for something right and they're
in the ring and they're just copying all the punches
and then suddenly something clicks and they throw the first
one back and you see them kind of stand a
(16:13):
bit taller, shoulders a bit broader, and you know that
they've stepped into I guess, their purpose, into their truth.
It did feel a bit like that. So it was
kind of, you know, this constant like someone would say something,
I'd just just be like, okay, yep, sure whatever, I
don't want to rock the boat, don't say anything. And
(16:34):
then there was just a day where something was said
and I went, do you know what, that's actually not okay.
I'm not going to hear that. I'm not going to
accept that this is something that you need to deal
with without me. It's not my problem, it's not something
that I'll continue to hear. And I just I said
something to that effect, I think, and walked away and
(16:56):
that was that. Yeah, And I just kind of went great,
did it? And things were Yeah, they just didn't really
bother me after that. Yeah, I reckon.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Also when like it shifts a lot of internal stuff
when we address things like there's like I said, there's
learning and unpacking and going oh I see this, and
that like I see why, Oh, I see whatever circumstances
or beliefs that I've had or conditioning that has resulted
in this being the way that I respond to a situation,
(17:33):
whether it's be a trigger or an actual reaction to things.
Totally lost train of thought. Then bam bam, that's right.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No, but I think you're right though, you know, it
comes down to a lot of We're probably quite similar
in like childhood, how we were raised. Like you know,
I was in a household where there was the old saying,
you know, kids are to be seen and not heard.
So it was like, well, how do you come out
of that and be able to find your voice in
any kind of way when it's been suppressed for so
(18:05):
long or you've been told not to use it for
so long. And then even you know, looking back at
like the first episode that we did together, which was
great and terrifying at the same time, a friend texted
me and said and was just laughing and said, you
know the part where you said you were concerned about
having you head up your own arts, And I think, like,
(18:27):
where did that come from? Where did that phrase come from?
For me? And that was like school years, you know,
it was that kind of thing of if anybody overachieved
or excelled any more than anybody else at school, well,
it was like, oh, you think you're better than everyone else.
There was no concept well in my school anyway, there
was no concept of just wanting to work hard and achieve.
(18:50):
It was you think you're better and you want to
stand out. And so I think that probably added to
it a lot for me as well, that you didn't
stand out. You shouldn't stand out because it was perceived
as you thought you were better than anyone else. And
that's certainly not who I am or why I want
to do anything. It's just that you know, as you say,
(19:12):
there's this instinct that makes you want to chase something,
and I feel like I've just always had that, And yeah,
it just comes down to like, how can that be
shown and how can that be allowed to run on
its own, maybe without carrying all that baggage of don't say.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Anything you made me think of a few years ago
now when so I feel like I guess I talk
a lot about the masks we wear, and kind of
the big one how I realized I was wearing one
at some point a couple of years after starting boxing
and it was just this moment of feeling like I
(19:55):
was standing in front of a mirror looking at someone
I never knew existed, and I'm like, shit, if I
don't know who this person is, the people closest to
me don't know who this person is, and that feels
really isolating and really lonely. And it takes and so
you can realize that, and then it still takes time
to start peeling the layers of that mask away. And
(20:17):
the boxing ring was the first place I did that,
and the podcast was the second. So I always called
it my emotional boxing ring, or I got to I
got in here in the ring, and I realized real
early on I actually was almost observing the version of
me in here going You are having such intimate conversations
(20:37):
with people about and asking questions you would never ask.
I wouldn't even ask questions to people in my life,
and I think it was because I didn't want them
ever to know what was behind my mask. I didn't
want them to see the shame. I didn't want them
to know the inadequacy that I must have thought was there.
So I hit it, and quite a few years ago
(20:58):
now I remember starting to be you know, I was
always fairly real and honest in my social media bullshit,
but sometimes I would, you know, I would post when
when things are shit, and I would and I would
just let you know. I wouldn't put on the happy
all the time, like Tift's always happy, she's always happy,
like she's always happy. And I remember a friend reaching
out and going, you know, you don't you don't have
(21:19):
to post that stuff. You could just reach out, And
at the time, I was thinking, that's cool, but you
can't just can't just expect that someone's there. I'm not
there yet. You know, what I have the capacity for
now is to not hide it completely. But I'm just
not ready to reach out to one person and go,
I'm feeling a bit like I'm feeling shit lately. So
(21:41):
the best I can do, and you can't shut that
down on someone, that's fine. I was finding my voice
and I was just really clear, and I knew it
was a part of my process. I'm like, it's cool,
I get it, and thank you for being there, and
you know I will at some point I'll be able
to reach out. But at the moment, the best I
can do is go, you know, I'm just going to
tell the world not too close to me, but I'm
(22:02):
gonna I'm gonna let it out. I'm gonna just.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
And it's it's far less scary to do that when
it's almost like it's the world as opposed to your
closest So, yeah, it's it's such a fascinating thing that
if you know you've got your your best friend with you,
you might not be able to say anything, but you
(22:26):
can put something on some form of social media that
is anxiety is flaring up at the moment, or I'm
in the midst of depression, and that, for some reason
is it's far safer because you're not being eyeballed by
one person who has or a few people who know
you quite quite well. Yeah, it's such a fascinating thing.
(22:51):
When when I first was diagnosed with anxiety, I was like, shiit,
what's this? How do I deal with it? And I've
been listening to a few different podcasts that we're dealing
with it, and I thought, I just need to say
something like, it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's nothing
that you know, if I had a broken arm, for instance,
(23:13):
my friends would want to help me. They'd want to know,
they'd want to know more, how did that happen? You know,
do you need anything when something that's you know, mental
health flares up. I don't look at it in any
other you know way, that it's just something that is.
It's broken for the time being, it'll get fixed, it
might even break again, because it's a you know, it's
(23:34):
a soft spot. But yeah, I think and even even
with doing like these episodes, it's just owning it. So
someone said to me the other day, you're really introverted,
and yeah, I am, And she's like, how do you
do it? How do you talk about things that are
so honest and raw and vulnerable? And maybe it is
(23:58):
because as much as you know, I've been getting to
know you over you know, however long it has been now,
but you know, we don't know everything about each other.
We're not overly close. So maybe that's why there's a
little bit of a boundary still there. There's a gap
in knowledge about each other. So maybe that's why it's easier.
But I don't know. It's an interesting one to think
(24:22):
about putting it out there in the way that we do,
but then not being able to say to our closest people, hey,
I'm struggling or Hey, I'm not great.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, but it's a muscle, you know. And I've in
the same way that when I first thing. I remember
the first couple of years of boxing, and I used
to sneak off from work early because I was in sale,
I was always on the road. I was like, oh,
I just turn up early. And a part of my
mind was like, your career is going to go down
(24:52):
the gurgle because you're so much more excited and fashionate
about boxing. But what was quite astounding was to reflect
on those few years of thinking that I was just
sport and boxing obsessed and not work obsessed, but the
changes that were happening through the art of being willing
to step into the ring and literally get uncomfortable where
(25:13):
punches to the face, be in the middle of the mayhem,
and learn how to manage it and dedicate yourself and
say yes to hard things and not of things that
you'd really like to do but that just don't fit
where you need to go and be. It changed who
I was as a person, as in work, in business,
in career. And I looked back and I saw very
(25:35):
clearly this evolution I didn't realized was happening. And that's
how I know, like the same thing happened with the podcast,
and I was like, Okay, cool, I understand that there's
this environment and this kind of a boundary that makes
it feel safe. I can tell why I'm allowed, why
I'm comfortable to be here doing this. But just like
training in the boxing ring, when I have these conversations here,
(25:57):
I learned how to do them, and I get to
start to take them outside of here and have them.
You know, I would have them at events with people.
I'd get up and speak, and then I'd sit down
and have the one on one conversation with people i'd
just met, or people that maybe I've known a little
bit of, and the conversations sometimes I think were conversations
they had never had with anyone, and I probably didn't
(26:20):
even share as deeply as they just did with me.
But I was like, oh this is and it was
just it felt like home to me. It felt so comfortable,
and I went, Okay, well, this now happens in life.
And then I started to do it with my friends
and my family, and then it becomes a thing you
just do because it's because you've trained yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It's so interesting you say that because I am noticing
that in general, like with conversations with my friends and
my family, it feels easier for me to ask questions
about them. Whereas you know, I think it's pretty well
known that I'm quiet in most situations, but now it
(27:00):
feels a lot easier to be asking questions, asking more
things of them, you know, if they're you know, offering
up something. I'm now more like I've always been curious,
but now it just seems easier to say, oh, well,
tell me more about that, or why do you think that?
Or you know, what else is going on? So it's
(27:21):
given me that confidence, I guess, to be able to
engage a lot easier in person. So yeah, absolutely, like,
I completely understand where you're coming from with that, and
it's I feel like it's something that's always been there,
but I've just never really, like literally been able to
(27:43):
put it into words because I have been so reserved
and so quiet in general.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, yeah, what else do you think for you? What
else is it? What other shifts has it created?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
It is quite interesting to hear people say, oh, you
sound really good, you asked really good questions. Someone said,
my nan actually said to me, how much do you rehearse?
Before you record. I said, we don't because no, no,
how much how much do you practice for it? Like
what do you prepare? And I'm like, we might text
(28:21):
for like five minutes or something and say, hey, let's
chat about this. And she goes, oh, well, you're very
good then, so I think, yeah, And that's what I
mean by like the unexpected, like for people to be
saying I saw it and I liked it. That that's
quite nice. So it's definitely it's helped me get over
(28:42):
the the angle give pure anxiety and I guess a
little bit of just the freaking out of oh my god,
I'm putting myself out there. And as much as I
enjoy it, there's still that whole people pleasing element and thinking, well,
what's this person going to think? And what's that person
going to think? And when when you sent me like
after the first episode, like the all of the videos,
(29:05):
I was like, oh my god, this is this is
quite confronting and people are going to see that. And
then I just kind of went, well, people see me
every day. The only thing that's changed is how I'm
seeing myself. Yeah, And and I thought, you know what,
you're being so good in giving me the chance to
(29:29):
do this that the very minimum, Like, yeah, absolutely, I
can share that because you know, it's it's just supporting
each other. So looking at it in that way and
almost removing myself from it, maybe just go you know what,
fuck it share with everyone. And the response was really cool.
So yeah, it's helped me. I guess it's helped me
(29:51):
get over myself a bit and just go, you know what, Yeah,
let's let's do it.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
We see so many people that, like yourself, don't see
the potential in you, but also don't understand the gift
of the good in that. And you know, there's another
another guy that I do some coaching with and I
(30:17):
say to him all the time, he's such an incredible
human and a good guy, and I'm like, you have
to you have to, like you have to understand that
we need more of you out You need to be
doing the stuff. You need to get out there because
the world has got a lot of shipboks and you're
(30:38):
one of the good ones. And like you need to
understand that. And like yourself, you know when people, all
of them, You've had such a huge response I've seen
on your socials and that and so many people such
a huge response. And part of that is because you've
broken the mold of their perception. They go, you have
referred to yourself as this quiet, painfully shy, introverted person,
(31:02):
but beneath that there is this highly intelligent, sharp, thinking,
awesome human and people need to see that because it
gives them permission, Like people need to see people who
relate to you if they go, well, hang on, like
Kel was shy too, and I remember when Kell couldn't
(31:23):
do this or that, and then all of a sudden,
look at her. Now it's like, well maybe I can.
It's permission. That's why I'm so loud about everything, is like,
it's not because I think I'm amazing. Sometimes I'm just
I think there's a part of me that's still this
little kid from Tazzy that goes, I'm here doing this
and if I can do it, fucking anyone can. All
you've got to do is just do it and love
(31:45):
it and make a bit of bloody, annoying tazzy twang
noise about it. Like I get so excited about that
part of it.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think, yeah, that's such a good
point in that it shows others what they can do
and Yeah, it's definitely a situation of visibility and just
showing what you can do. And even you know what,
last time when we were talking, I think I referenced
(32:14):
something about doing something even though you're scared, like just
do it scared, And I really like that saying, and
you know, stolen it from one of the many podcasts
I listened to, but absolutely like, just do it scared.
And so, you know, I was invited to a big
meeting at work the other day, and as much as
I really wanted to be that, I was terrified I'd
(32:34):
never sat at the table with these people. And you know,
then after you know, a couple of minutes or whatever
it was, I'm like, can I just say and can
I can I contribute here? And it's almost that it
comes back to it for me, Like one of the
biggest things that I dealt with with my psychologist was
(32:54):
social anxiety. And as much as like I'd be looking
at all these places online, all these cool things that
I wanted to do about nah, I can't do that,
not cool enough, There'll be too many people, I'll be overwhelmed.
And she was like, the only way to get through
that is to actually do it. So it was this
(33:14):
kind of exposure therapy. And so the more that you
do it, the easier it becomes. And that's probably where
I'm at with a lot of things now in that
the more I'm doing it, the easier it will become.
Like I, you know, texted you yesterday and said, I
put a video of myself on my TikTok. I've never
done that.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
You know, But part of it was like I thought
it was going to be this huge philosophical conversation. It
was my cat, Cat Cat.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah, but you know, part of me was like, why
am I putting myself, you know, on a video? Who
gives a shit? And then I'm like, that's fun? Why not?
Like everyone else is putting themselves out there? And yeah,
I just thought it's one of those things. The more
(34:07):
I do it, and if this is something that I
really want to do and it is, then why not.
The more I do it, the easier it will become.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Just thinking about we try and avoid uncomfortable emotions, and
that's what the whole honesty thing is is we try
and take responsibility for how something is going to land,
and it's going to be uncomfortable, it's going to be
uncomfortable because we're going to use our voice for the
first time. But there's no escaping uncomfortable because we either
(34:38):
deal with the discomfort of that which has the potential
to give us a really positive outcome and growth, or
we have the ongoing lingering discomfort of regret or having
our boundaries crossed, or not being you know, being suppressed.
You can't suppress that shit.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
No. And also one of the big things for me
is just I can't keep wondering what if so in
wanting to write, Like that's when I was like eighteen,
I had two really amazing internships. So the first one
was Home and Away. I got to go and yea
(35:22):
to their script department. Yeah, and then Neighbors, so like
at the time it was you know, the two biggest
TV shows in Australia. I got to go and have
work experience on and I was like, that's it. I'm done.
I'm going to get a job here. This is the
rest of my life locked in. And I remember having
conversation with the producer on Neighbors, like the script producer,
(35:44):
and I said, you know, can I do this? How
I got what it takes? And She's like absolutely, you
know you can write really well, but you're nineteen. You
have no life experience. What stories have you got to tell?
And so that's always been in the back of my
mind that you know, now that I've got life experience,
now that I've gone and like I've traveled, I married,
(36:07):
I'm you know, working of what stories can I tell?
So that, for me is the biggest I can't have
that what if. So I push myself to write something
every single day, even if it shit. You know, most
likely it shit, But I write something every single day
because yeah, that's I can't have the what if. I
(36:28):
don't want to get to what is it? The craigsis
you know, in a minute, you'll be five years older
and you don't change anything, you'll be in the same position.
So yeah, that's that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I love that, you know, I'm doing my course at
the moment. And one of the things I'm reminded of,
which I've let fall away for a long time just
from being busy, is just creating content of this bullshit
that's going through my mind because there's so much, you know,
I'm having several conversations on my show and his every
(37:01):
week with awesome humans and lots of data coming in,
lots of processing happening, and you know, I'm coaching people.
I'm coaching them in the gym, I'm coaching them in programs,
face to face, it online, and you know, I'm doing
all of this stuff and sometimes in the middle of that,
and then there's just all this stuff always bouncing around
my mind like it's learning, it's evolving, my perspectives are changing.
(37:24):
I'm you know, I sat at the cafe this morning
for two hours and I loved it because I just
was just writing. I was just writing things that I
was new perspectives or things that I was making sense
of and putting them into words and putting them out.
So I'm doing more videos like that now. Some of
them are just a bit of bullshit, to be honest,
Like you know, picking up dog Pooh on after and
(37:46):
how cruel is that? Right, let's talk about that. Luna
takes a good five minutes sometimes to find the perfect
bush to take it pooh, and like serious, serious work
goes into finding that magical spot and then three seconds later,
I've scooped it up in a black plastic bag and
I just think she must be like, mate, just know
(38:07):
how much work I put into that.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah, you're clearing away her achievement, aren't you?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Anyway back on task, what I'm finding is I'm just
putting a lot of that content out, and it's reminding
me of what interests me. How do I think? What
are my thoughts? What are my thoughts? Because my thoughts
are just in this amalgamation of now literally thousands of
other people's thoughts that have all gotten jumbled up in
(38:37):
my head, and some of them have stuck together and
some of them have split apart, and I don't know
wh what comes from where, and so it's I just
think it really helps us figure out who we are
and what we think, to write and express and get
put words to things.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Oh absolutely, it's certainly that for me. It's always been
that for me. My nan will constantly remind me of
you know, do you remember when you were young and
you'd get like notebooks and stable them together and say
that you've written a book, And I do I remember that?
I think for me, if I'm not creating something, then
(39:18):
it feels like part of me is quite inactive. I
need to be doing that. It's something that just really
works for me, whether I share it or not. And
that's probably the biggest thing as well, or one of
the big things and I'm really pushing myself to do
at the moment, is to actually share it. And that
(39:39):
is equal parts exciting and terrifying, because you know, there
is still like and I think it'll probably always be
there for me. It's just that niggling voice at the
back of my head saying, who do you think you are?
You know well, and it just it really needs to
for it really needs to just come back to the
(40:00):
fact that I do it for myself and that's really
the only reason why if other people enjoy it. When
you know, if I ever choose to share anything, then amazing.
But I have to just do it for myself, even
even if it doesn't go anywhere, even if it doesn't
do anything, I have to do it for myself.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah. Yeah. I was looking at so in part of
the content that I'm writing up for my keynote, and
I was looking at doctor Gibor Mattei's work and in
I think it's in his book when the body says No,
he talks about because I was looking at the effect
(40:43):
on us for not so he says, abandoning your true
self So the idea of wearing the mask, of changing
who you are to fit in, which sounds a bit
wood and fluffy, but like, he's got clinical evidence that
shows how chronically suppressing your emotions and your scent and
your true self to meet external expectations leads to activation
(41:08):
of the HPA axis, persistent stress hormone release like corsol,
and suppressed immune function, increasing the risk of chronic illness.
So it's like, literally, this stuff, this idea of being
nice and being censored and not being who we are
doesn't mean you have to be an asshole. But there's
eight billion plus people on the planet. Just find the
(41:32):
people who you can be you around. Like, if you're
needing to mask and squeash and be nice and fit
yourself into an environment, find a new environment, or bad
shit's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Absolutely absolutely, And that was That's something that I've been realizing,
even just recently, so putting stock into people who don't
necessarily share your leaves, share your values, and then suddenly
now I'm noticing that I've got people around me like yourself,
Black Craig, a few others who I'm like, well, actually
(42:11):
what they're doing is what I want to do, and
I believe in that, and it's something that I'm really enjoying,
and it's aligning with who I'm trying to be, and
it's like, well, it doesn't necessarily mean that I need
to cut anything or anyone out of my life, but
I can stop worrying about those opinions because if they're
(42:34):
not aligning with where I want to go, then why
am I putting so much energy into worrying about them
when the people who are in that new environment are
cheering me on.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yes, the red thread, mate, follow the red thread.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
The red thread. But it's interesting the thing about masking
as well. So I've seen that a lot with you.
Part of the other community that I'm with him, which
is the LGBTQA plus community. You see it all the
time with people who don't feel like they can be
them trueselves because of because of being gay, and then
you see when they do. You know, even more so
(43:14):
people who are trans, you see that when eventually they
have the strength, they have the support to step into
being who they truly are, there's just this overwhelming acceptance
and happiness that radiates from them. And it's one of
the most beautiful things to see in a human being.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I've been hanging out with a made of mine and
I won't identify them, not that I want to say
anything terrible, but and they've got some disabilities, they've got
some stuff, and they're one of my favorite They're so
fucking funny. They're one of my favorite humans. And they're
in the speaking space too. So we've been doing a
lot of work together. We've been doing a lot of brainstorming.
(43:55):
And we left this event recently and they rang and
he's like, he was, we're having a laugh, and then
he goes, this is why I love you, mate, Like
I can be myself. Then there's not many people I can.
And it shocked me because I was like, oh, really,
because you're so funny and cool with it and like
(44:18):
it like and I just don't. I don't understand his
world and I didn't think that that'd be a thing.
And then you just kind of go, oh, there's people
like him where he's however he presents, maybe doesn't lack
because they've got this preoccupation with Oh, I see something
that you're dealing with that's really confronting to me. Whereas
(44:40):
he used to joke with me about it and I
and we have the biggest laughs, but yeah, it really
it surprised me. The same thing happened quite a while ago.
One of my Sri Lankan mates. We used to go
cycling a lot, and you talked about going riding motorcycles
up to the country and him and his mates went
to this pub and they walked in and they were
the only dark skinned guys in there. And he goes
(45:02):
and and I was like, is that is that a
thing for you?
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I don't. Of course I don't see it or feel
it because I'm white in Melbourne, which is a pretty
diverse place, but but I'm not the minority and I
so I don't see what he sees and lives with.
And there'd be so many examples of that.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Yeah, absolutely there is. I've seen a few examples of it.
I've never openly been on the receiving end myself, so
I've been quite lucky. But I've seen it before. And
because of someone's preconceived idea of what someone is or
what that means, or what they've been told it is,
(45:46):
you know, there can be quite a lot of offensive comments,
There can be there can be violence. It's yeah, it's
an interesting thing, and you know, I think it just
kind of circles back to what we're talking about initially,
just you know, being honest. A lot of people have
to wear that mask because they can't be honest about
(46:07):
who they are because there's genuine fear of what someone
else might do or say, and that is that's horrible,
that's really horrible. But again, you know, maybe for me,
that's why I've never been really comfortable in you know,
sharing my true self, my whole voice, because for a
(46:30):
long time I did have to along with you know,
being painfully shy and introverted and not wanting to talk.
I couldn't really be who I absolutely was. And yeah,
that's honesty, visibility, everything we've been talking about, right.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah, all the big stuff, all.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
The big stuffe all the big stuff that scares the
shit out of a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah. Yeah, and it's going to think about life and
being a human is you can't do this work until
something in you is ready to do this work, Like
we can't just wheel. Like some people will hear this
conversation and it will spark something because it's their moment,
(47:16):
because it's where they're at. And like I always say,
if someone came up to me in the earliest moments
of boxing, before i'd had my own epiphanies about myself,
before I'd ask myself the questions. If someone come up
and said, a tough girl, you know you're actually terrified.
You know you think you're so tough, But do you
know that you're terrified of people and commitment and connection
(47:39):
and relationships and abandonment? Do you realize that you're just
shit scared? And I would have been like, I'd punch
them in the face, but they're like, you are a dickhead,
because whatever was in me wasn't ready. But then at
some point that question cracked open in my own mind
and I was like, hey, tough girl, what scares you then?
(48:03):
If it's not getting punched in the face. And I
went down the rabbit hole of asking me the questions.
And then I think as the years go by, you
start to see similar messages or things you've read or
heard before, or people conversations you've come across that one
time didn't land, and all of a sudden they land,
and you're like, this is phenomenal, this is life change.
(48:27):
I want to tell everyone, but you can't because everyone's
in a different space.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Absolutely, so one of the biggest things for me. Like, so,
the first ever podcast I started listening to was Osha Ginsburg,
you know, The Bachelor, and I really enjoyed that he
was so honest about everything. And it was around the
time that I had been diagnosed with anxiety, and he
(48:51):
was probably the most open I'd ever heard anybody be
about mental illness. And he was just so raw. He
was so honest about absolutely everything. And then he wrote
a book about it, and I went to and he
did like a show and everything like that, and you know,
(49:11):
all my friends and I'm Osh his biggest fan girl.
I think he's great. And so I went to his
show and you know, met him. And one of the
things that I took from him is that he one
year on Instagram did a selfie every day, and I'm like,
that's the coolest thing in the world. Like that's you know,
it's showing commitment, it's showing sticking to something. And I went,
(49:33):
I wish I could do that, but I'm way too
scared to post a photo of myself. So I did it.
I thought, no, I'm just going to do it, and
it became this thing and it was fun. It was great.
And so I met him and I'm like, I really
need to get a selfie with you, and he's like absolutely,
because I messaged him on Instagram told him and all
this kind of stuff and then having a bit of
(49:54):
a chat and I said to him, what does it
do for you that you have been so honest and
open with telling everybody about what you've gone through? And
he said, it's the freedom, he said, I'm absolutely free.
Nobody has anything on me. It's just freedom, Like I
(50:15):
own it now. And that's why, you know, as much
as there's a lot that I don't say, like, I
absolutely put that out there that yes, this is something
that I deal with and it's just owning it. And
I think, yeah, that absolutely gives you such a freedom
because people can't come up to you and say, hey,
(50:38):
tough girl, you're scared of X, Y and Z. It's like, well, yeah, yeah,
I am. What's your point?
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah yeah yeah. It's like, I'm way more comfortable with
you punching me in the face than asking me on
a date. You know, I just got to talk about
tough girl. What's your plans? What's next?
Speaker 3 (50:59):
What's next? I think I'm planning a podcast potentially. I've
got some people who I think would be really fascinating
to talk to. But I think one is so've I
have recorded a podcast with my name. We did that
kind of pre COVID and that was all of her
(51:20):
life stories and that was mainly for the family, but
a few other people listen as well and that was great.
And then yeah, I did one with a friend as well.
But I think it's making me far more curious about
other people. And yeah, I'd like to line up potentially
a few and then like have a a whole lot
recorded and ready to go, because I think that's been
(51:42):
probably what stopped me from getting the other ones really flowing,
is that it was like, when have we got time
to do one? When can I edit? So I think
having a better plan around it, yeah, and then TikTok
shit posting.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
And you can drop them in seasons because you have
a full time job, you don't have the flex like
I've got a flexibility to just make it work whenever
I need to. But when you've got a full time job,
you can't do a season and then at least you'll
so your listeners have an expectation that okay, we did,
we drop our season and then you can do whatever
(52:20):
in between. You can drop another season. Just gives you
that ability to so that there's no just stopping and
starting without reason.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Yeah, which can be really annoying. Yeah, so look I'm
thinking about that.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Excellent. I'll be prodding about that. So everyone keep your
eyes peeled, because we'll make that happen. It's what we do.
Thanks for another awesome conversation on the show, mate, Oh
thank you. I thank you. A website or something so
people can follow you.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
Well, look, then they can go to my insitut if
they want, which is just at Calstar. That's a I
realized that's a name that was given to me by
a high school friend and it's just stuck kill start. Yeah. Yeah,
I never really wanted to, you know, identify myself on Instagram,
but now I've been trying to change it on there,
and everyone else has got the names that I want.
(53:12):
So there we go. I thank my year twelve buddy
that gave me that nickname.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Shout out to them. Yeah, all right, everyone give her
a follow. She said, it's now never.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I got fighting in my blood, got it, got it,
She said, it's now never.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm Tiff. This is role with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family
Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. She's back, She's back.
(00:54):
It's Kelly Smith.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Hey, how you going.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
You're addicted?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Addicted? I am am.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
To the mic? What a revolution.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
It's it's so much fun. I it was very interesting
because I think it was what was it two weeks
ago that both of the episodes, the one with you
on the one with Craig came out on the same day.
You Can't shut me Up? It's great?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Are you just on are on podcasting Cloud nine?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
On that day I was and it was like, wow,
is this is this real, like, this is something that
you know, I've always wanted to do, and now there's
two of my absolute favorites that I've managed to you know, invade.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And then just.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Random people were talking to me about it. They're like,
I saw this online and I think it's really cool.
And I'm like, oh, wow, that's really unexpected. So yeah,
it's been it's been really cool.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I love that. And what you expected or what? Like,
what's it? What are your plans? What does it feel like? Now?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It feels like I need to keep the momentum going
and do something really for myself. So I think I've
always been quite creative, and then that probably got sidelined
a bit with work and just other things and life
and you know stuff. And now I'm like, okay, well
let's just keep that momentum going. So I'm writing a
(02:22):
lot more, which and that's my overall kind of passion
is to write. I feel like one day there might
be a novel, and so just really pushing that. And
then for fun, I've been telling everyone that I'm just
starting to ship post to TikTok every day. So I
(02:44):
when I was at Uni, I studied film and so
I learned you know all about film techniques and editing
and all that kind of stuff, and now I've basically
got all of that in my phone, so, you know,
rather than just mindlessly scrolling, it's like, well, why don't
I just get a bit creative? So that's what I've
been doing.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So yeah, mean my dog carrying on in the background
a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I just muted for a
bit then because she's losing it because, in true to form,
the delivery dude rings the bell straight after I hit
record on a podcast. It's a bit of a technique
we've worked on here. I think they're in sync with
me now. They're like, she's on, let's go, let's.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Go, let's go. And look, I mean, Luna did make
an appearance yesterday in your tutorial of what not to
do with podcasting, So it's it's part.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I'm just rolling with it these days. I'm like, you
know what if they want to get involved, those animals
and mine, they're going to get involved. Did you see
what Luna did yesterday?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
No? I know, possible was the possum?
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I know you're yeah, the possum. Yeah, So I'm walking
for everyone listening, I am walking along. I've just gone
out to take her for a walk, and we start
strolling up the sidewalk. Next minute, she launches six ft
into the air and when I look down, she is
at my feet with apossent in her mouth. You know,
when a split second feels like ten minutes, like so much.
(04:09):
My cognition went to high speed, high alert, and I
had so many, so many thoughts in that moment. It
was like, what do I do here? What's my role?
What is she going to do? What happens? Can it
bite her? Will she kill it? Is there going to
be blood? Is there going to like? What what do
I do?
Speaker 3 (04:30):
And so what was the result?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I did a little video on it today because it's
because I haven't stop thinking about it. She kind of
looked a bit stunned, like, oh oh, I didn't know
what to do with this now. So she put it there,
she let it go, and it's scurried off, you know,
I'm going. It made me think of how how we react,
(04:54):
like something triggers us, or we have a reaction to
things that were hardwired for, or we the things, or
we want things, or we do things, and then when
we get there, when it happens, we don't really know
what to do with it, and we because we don't
really analyze what our driver is, We don't always know
why we're doing what we do. We just driven. Sometimes
we're just driven or hardwired, like we're driven towards success
(05:17):
because there's something inside is that says I need connection
and belonging and somewhere in the back of our psyche says,
this is how you get it because society has told
me that I go do this, and I say this,
and I get this job, and then we get the
job and we sit in the middle of it and
we're like, what do I do with this? What do
I do with this? Possibly in my mouth now, Yeah,
(05:38):
Like it's it's a that's a fair.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Point though, like you know, what is it that you
do when you finally get what you want? And is
it you know, you get what you want and you realize, oh,
actually I don't want that. So she lets the possum go, Yeah,
that's it's a really interesting way of looking at it.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, and just that whole driver for it is like
that's just in the instincts of a dog and their
role and what they've done for their whole life, not
her life. She's lived in a house with a family,
and then in an apartment with one human which is
me and a cat. So it's like, yep, there are
other animals that aren't her that she's not allowed to eat.
(06:20):
But when we go out of a night, even just
the scent of those nocturnal animals, she is pinging off
the walls on high alert, like that is so hardwired
into them. You just go. It's so fascinating, and John,
it made me really introspective about all of the unconscious
stuff in human behavior in the same way. But we
(06:43):
have the ability to be introspective and then to rewire
how we condition, how our conditioning is, whereas dogs can't
do that unless we play a part in the doing. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Really interesting, So there you go.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Maybe you need the adventure is to catch a possum.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Mate, Well, it's figure.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Chasing a possum. That's this whole, this whole getting beyond
the mic and this whole creating content. This is your possum.
But you know, unlike Luna, you've got a bit of
an idea about why you want to do it and
what you're going to do when you get the possum
in your mouth.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Maybe well, maybe.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Let's not do what we did last time we're going
to talk about a topic. You're the topic guru. What
have you got for us?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Well, when I first started chatting with you, and when
I was having actual like mentoring sessions with you, which
were amazing, a lot of it was around being able
to use my voice and use it in the right
way and you know, speak up for myself, stand up
for myself, be able to say things in the moment,
which I think it's something that a lot of people
(07:51):
deal with. They can go I should have said that,
or I should have responded this way, and I didn't
because I was in shock or I just didn't know
how to respond. And for me, a lot of that
was around and still is around like people pleasing and
just wanting, you know, to have everyone like me and
to be nice about things and not actually say no
or say no I can't or you know, I don't
(08:13):
agree with that. And so the first time we spoke,
you said what's the opposite of nice? And I was like,
is it nasty? And it wasn't, And so I really
wanted to unpack that and like get into that a
little bit more, just in the sense of being able
(08:33):
to use your voice in the right way and at
the right moment. I know there's a lot online, you know,
coaching around this and then just having conversations with people
where they're like, I should have said that, you know,
I had this response in mind, but I just I
couldn't get it out at the time. So and I
think it comes back to that, you know, just people
(08:54):
pleasing and wanting to be nice all the time. So, yeah,
what do you got.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Oh nte. I loved it that it was doctor Hannah
Corral that first said that, like introduced me to the
concept of that in a conversation we had on the show.
And it's funny because as you started talking about this,
I'm like, it's so ties in with the bossom thing,
you know. It's like, it's the reaction to the conditioning
(09:18):
that we haven't questioned. It's the place that we land
when the metaphorical possum, which is probably a comment or
a situation or circumstance that we're thrown into the middle of,
and then we have a reaction which is not thought
out and not how we want it to be. So
that's cool. How did it, I mean, for the sake
(09:39):
of everyone else? Yeah, So the answer to the what's
the opposite of nice was honest. So when you're being nice,
you're deliberately, you're trying to pander to other people's feelings,
you're trying not to offend, do all of the things.
But the opposite of that is just being honest. And
(10:01):
usually when we're being nice, we're not being honest where
we're pit a patterning around the edges of that. And
it's like, I talk so much to so many clients
and people about boundaries, and probably because for me they
were such a struggle. Like for me when I did
(10:22):
a lot of thinking about this weird ass boxing ring
thing that I fell in love with and getting punched
in the face. And one of the first things when
I started to analyze that environment and go, what is
it about that? What is it? Why would someone feel
safe or at home or comfortable in a place where
(10:42):
someone's standing in front of them trying to punch them
in the face and hurt them. And the two first
things that landed for me were honesty invisibility, So that
person's not lying, they're standing in front of me, in
front of other people, and they're saying I'm here and
I'm going to punch you in the face. I'm not
pretending to be a friend. I'm your opponent. But then
(11:05):
I lay it on top of that was and there
are boundaries, and I knew them because they were told
to me. I didn't have to set them, and they
were clear, you can do it this way. These are
the rules. This is what happens. There's a bell, you
hit each other. You can do this, you can't do that.
Go And so I knew very clearly what was appropriate
(11:26):
and okay and how someone was allowed to touch me
and I was allowed to touch them and what was
not okay. And I feel like when I look back
at my upbringing in life, I lacked the ability to
know that. And I also lacked the ability to trust
my own body. So that kind of instinct around it
(11:47):
just wasn't there. And that's where we start being nice
and not being honest because we never analyze it.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, And that's such a wonderful way of
describing it, right, Like, once you've got the rules and
you know how to play, then that's fine. Like you
know that there's going to be a certain outcome, you
know the boundaries that you have to stay within. But
it's so interesting when you get faced with situations where
(12:14):
you're opposite people who don't have those boundaries and don't
stick within the rules, and I guess, in effect do
what they want, treat people how they want, which isn't
necessarily in a good way, and you kind of go,
why am I being nice to this person? Why am
I not being honest with how I am and what
(12:37):
I think and how this person's making me feel, or
even you know, just on that, you know, owning that
they're triggering some sort of reaction in you. Yeah, it's
an interesting one to be able to have those social
boundaries that you kind of go most people have them,
(13:00):
you know, in general, there's kind of ways to treat people,
you know, just don't go out of your way to
be an asshole, just you know, go about you know,
your business in the world. But then you come across
these people who challenge those kind of societal norms, and yeah,
it was very interesting having that conversation with you because
(13:21):
it made me kind of go, Okay, well, if I'm
being honest, then that's being true to who I am,
because that's one of my core values and that really
helped me in situations where I did have to use
my voice in a different way and say, hold up,
that behavior isn't okay and I won't tolerate it. And
I actually was able to and it was quite it
(13:44):
was quite empowering. But I certainly like I came away
from it going oh, did I really just do that?
Did I really just say that? And I did. I
managed to do it. But then you know, there's also
that kind of cycle of thinking was that the right
thing to do? Because having not it before, so you
still second guess and then I guess it was just
a bit more practice around No, I can actually say
(14:07):
this as long as I'm being true to myself, as
long as I'm being honest about what I'm saying, then
that's okay. So it was kind of giving the green
light of you can say that. You can do that
so long as it's honest and it's coming from a
place of not being mean about it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm so big on that concept of integrity
and going like, what are my intentions and what is
my and does it alignt? Do I have integrity around this?
But I'd be interested to hear how so, like we
have those conversations back when we had them, what was
(14:46):
it like for you leaving those conversations, processing that, and
then the opportunities to implement it presenting themselves, because I.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Know that.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Being able to get the logic around what's happening is
one thing, but then the ability to implement it in
life and implement it in the moments when they happen,
that's a bit of a process. It's not like you
just walk out the door after a conversation, walk into
work the next day, come up with her or wherever
(15:19):
you're going work, sport, bloody, next door neighbor Bob, and
have an interaction and change. Like usually you land somewhere
and you walk away and you go, shit, that was
a moment, and then you land somewhere, and then halfway
through it you're like, now would be the time, but
(15:41):
you're still kind of not there. You're still a bit
like or. And then maybe the third time you walk
in and you're waiting because you know you're going to
land somewhere and you're able to do it. So for you,
what was it?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Like? I think, to use your metaphor of the boxing,
it's like one of those movies where you see the
montage of the person training for something right and they're
in the ring and they're just copying all the punches
and then suddenly something clicks and they throw the first
one back and you see them kind of stand a
(16:13):
bit taller, shoulders a bit broader, and you know that
they've stepped into I guess, their purpose, into their truth.
It did feel a bit like that. So it was
kind of, you know, this constant like someone would say something,
I'd just just be like, okay, yep, sure whatever, I
don't want to rock the boat, don't say anything. And
(16:34):
then there was just a day where something was said
and I went, do you know what, that's actually not okay.
I'm not going to hear that. I'm not going to
accept that this is something that you need to deal
with without me. It's not my problem, it's not something
that I'll continue to hear. And I just I said
something to that effect, I think, and walked away and
(16:56):
that was that. Yeah, And I just kind of went great,
did it? And things were Yeah, they just didn't really
bother me after that. Yeah, I reckon.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Also when like it shifts a lot of internal stuff
when we address things like there's like I said, there's
learning and unpacking and going oh I see this, and
that like I see why, Oh, I see whatever circumstances
or beliefs that I've had or conditioning that has resulted
in this being the way that I respond to a situation,
(17:33):
whether it's be a trigger or an actual reaction to things.
Totally lost train of thought. Then bam bam, that's right.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No, but I think you're right though, you know, it
comes down to a lot of We're probably quite similar
in like childhood, how we were raised. Like you know,
I was in a household where there was the old saying,
you know, kids are to be seen and not heard.
So it was like, well, how do you come out
of that and be able to find your voice in
any kind of way when it's been suppressed for so
(18:05):
long or you've been told not to use it for
so long. And then even you know, looking back at
like the first episode that we did together, which was
great and terrifying at the same time, a friend texted
me and said and was just laughing and said, you
know the part where you said you were concerned about
having you head up your own arts, And I think, like,
(18:27):
where did that come from? Where did that phrase come from?
For me? And that was like school years, you know,
it was that kind of thing of if anybody overachieved
or excelled any more than anybody else at school, well,
it was like, oh, you think you're better than everyone else.
There was no concept well in my school anyway, there
was no concept of just wanting to work hard and achieve.
(18:50):
It was you think you're better and you want to
stand out. And so I think that probably added to
it a lot for me as well, that you didn't
stand out. You shouldn't stand out because it was perceived
as you thought you were better than anyone else. And
that's certainly not who I am or why I want
to do anything. It's just that you know, as you say,
(19:12):
there's this instinct that makes you want to chase something,
and I feel like I've just always had that, And yeah,
it just comes down to like, how can that be
shown and how can that be allowed to run on
its own, maybe without carrying all that baggage of don't say.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Anything you made me think of a few years ago
now when so I feel like I guess I talk
a lot about the masks we wear, and kind of
the big one how I realized I was wearing one
at some point a couple of years after starting boxing
and it was just this moment of feeling like I
(19:55):
was standing in front of a mirror looking at someone
I never knew existed, and I'm like, shit, if I
don't know who this person is, the people closest to
me don't know who this person is, and that feels
really isolating and really lonely. And it takes and so
you can realize that, and then it still takes time
to start peeling the layers of that mask away. And
(20:17):
the boxing ring was the first place I did that,
and the podcast was the second. So I always called
it my emotional boxing ring, or I got to I
got in here in the ring, and I realized real
early on I actually was almost observing the version of
me in here going You are having such intimate conversations
(20:37):
with people about and asking questions you would never ask.
I wouldn't even ask questions to people in my life,
and I think it was because I didn't want them
ever to know what was behind my mask. I didn't
want them to see the shame. I didn't want them
to know the inadequacy that I must have thought was there.
So I hit it, and quite a few years ago
(20:58):
now I remember starting to be you know, I was
always fairly real and honest in my social media bullshit,
but sometimes I would, you know, I would post when
when things are shit, and I would and I would
just let you know. I wouldn't put on the happy
all the time, like Tift's always happy, she's always happy,
like she's always happy. And I remember a friend reaching
out and going, you know, you don't you don't have
(21:19):
to post that stuff. You could just reach out, And
at the time, I was thinking, that's cool, but you
can't just can't just expect that someone's there. I'm not
there yet. You know, what I have the capacity for
now is to not hide it completely. But I'm just
not ready to reach out to one person and go,
I'm feeling a bit like I'm feeling shit lately. So
(21:41):
the best I can do, and you can't shut that
down on someone, that's fine. I was finding my voice
and I was just really clear, and I knew it
was a part of my process. I'm like, it's cool,
I get it, and thank you for being there, and
you know I will at some point I'll be able
to reach out. But at the moment, the best I
can do is go, you know, I'm just going to
tell the world not too close to me, but I'm
(22:02):
gonna I'm gonna let it out. I'm gonna just.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
And it's it's far less scary to do that when
it's almost like it's the world as opposed to your
closest So, yeah, it's it's such a fascinating thing that
if you know you've got your your best friend with you,
you might not be able to say anything, but you
(22:26):
can put something on some form of social media that
is anxiety is flaring up at the moment, or I'm
in the midst of depression, and that, for some reason
is it's far safer because you're not being eyeballed by
one person who has or a few people who know
you quite quite well. Yeah, it's such a fascinating thing.
(22:51):
When when I first was diagnosed with anxiety, I was like, shiit,
what's this? How do I deal with it? And I've
been listening to a few different podcasts that we're dealing
with it, and I thought, I just need to say
something like, it's nothing to be ashamed of. It's nothing
that you know, if I had a broken arm, for instance,
(23:13):
my friends would want to help me. They'd want to know,
they'd want to know more, how did that happen? You know,
do you need anything when something that's you know, mental
health flares up. I don't look at it in any
other you know way, that it's just something that is.
It's broken for the time being, it'll get fixed, it
might even break again, because it's a you know, it's
(23:34):
a soft spot. But yeah, I think and even even
with doing like these episodes, it's just owning it. So
someone said to me the other day, you're really introverted,
and yeah, I am, And she's like, how do you
do it? How do you talk about things that are
so honest and raw and vulnerable? And maybe it is
(23:58):
because as much as you know, I've been getting to
know you over you know, however long it has been now,
but you know, we don't know everything about each other.
We're not overly close. So maybe that's why there's a
little bit of a boundary still there. There's a gap
in knowledge about each other. So maybe that's why it's easier.
But I don't know. It's an interesting one to think
(24:22):
about putting it out there in the way that we do,
but then not being able to say to our closest people, hey,
I'm struggling or Hey, I'm not great.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, but it's a muscle, you know. And I've in
the same way that when I first thing. I remember
the first couple of years of boxing, and I used
to sneak off from work early because I was in sale,
I was always on the road. I was like, oh,
I just turn up early. And a part of my
mind was like, your career is going to go down
(24:52):
the gurgle because you're so much more excited and fashionate
about boxing. But what was quite astounding was to reflect
on those few years of thinking that I was just
sport and boxing obsessed and not work obsessed, but the
changes that were happening through the art of being willing
to step into the ring and literally get uncomfortable where
(25:13):
punches to the face, be in the middle of the mayhem,
and learn how to manage it and dedicate yourself and
say yes to hard things and not of things that
you'd really like to do but that just don't fit
where you need to go and be. It changed who
I was as a person, as in work, in business,
in career. And I looked back and I saw very
(25:35):
clearly this evolution I didn't realized was happening. And that's
how I know, like the same thing happened with the podcast,
and I was like, Okay, cool, I understand that there's
this environment and this kind of a boundary that makes
it feel safe. I can tell why I'm allowed, why
I'm comfortable to be here doing this. But just like
training in the boxing ring, when I have these conversations here,
(25:57):
I learned how to do them, and I get to
start to take them outside of here and have them.
You know, I would have them at events with people.
I'd get up and speak, and then I'd sit down
and have the one on one conversation with people i'd
just met, or people that maybe I've known a little
bit of, and the conversations sometimes I think were conversations
they had never had with anyone, and I probably didn't
(26:20):
even share as deeply as they just did with me.
But I was like, oh this is and it was
just it felt like home to me. It felt so comfortable,
and I went, Okay, well, this now happens in life.
And then I started to do it with my friends
and my family, and then it becomes a thing you
just do because it's because you've trained yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It's so interesting you say that because I am noticing
that in general, like with conversations with my friends and
my family, it feels easier for me to ask questions
about them. Whereas you know, I think it's pretty well
known that I'm quiet in most situations, but now it
(27:00):
feels a lot easier to be asking questions, asking more
things of them, you know, if they're you know, offering
up something. I'm now more like I've always been curious,
but now it just seems easier to say, oh, well,
tell me more about that, or why do you think that?
Or you know, what else is going on? So it's
(27:21):
given me that confidence, I guess, to be able to
engage a lot easier in person. So yeah, absolutely, like,
I completely understand where you're coming from with that, and
it's I feel like it's something that's always been there,
but I've just never really, like literally been able to
(27:43):
put it into words because I have been so reserved
and so quiet in general.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, yeah, what else do you think for you? What
else is it? What other shifts has it created?
Speaker 3 (27:58):
It is quite interesting to hear people say, oh, you
sound really good, you asked really good questions. Someone said,
my nan actually said to me, how much do you rehearse?
Before you record. I said, we don't because no, no,
how much how much do you practice for it? Like
what do you prepare? And I'm like, we might text
(28:21):
for like five minutes or something and say, hey, let's
chat about this. And she goes, oh, well, you're very
good then, so I think, yeah, And that's what I
mean by like the unexpected, like for people to be
saying I saw it and I liked it. That that's
quite nice. So it's definitely it's helped me get over
(28:42):
the the angle give pure anxiety and I guess a
little bit of just the freaking out of oh my god,
I'm putting myself out there. And as much as I
enjoy it, there's still that whole people pleasing element and thinking, well,
what's this person going to think? And what's that person
going to think? And when when you sent me like
after the first episode, like the all of the videos,
(29:05):
I was like, oh my god, this is this is
quite confronting and people are going to see that. And
then I just kind of went, well, people see me
every day. The only thing that's changed is how I'm
seeing myself. Yeah, And and I thought, you know what,
you're being so good in giving me the chance to
(29:29):
do this that the very minimum, Like, yeah, absolutely, I
can share that because you know, it's it's just supporting
each other. So looking at it in that way and
almost removing myself from it, maybe just go you know what,
fuck it share with everyone. And the response was really cool.
So yeah, it's helped me. I guess it's helped me
(29:51):
get over myself a bit and just go, you know what, Yeah,
let's let's do it.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
We see so many people that, like yourself, don't see
the potential in you, but also don't understand the gift
of the good in that. And you know, there's another
another guy that I do some coaching with and I
(30:17):
say to him all the time, he's such an incredible
human and a good guy, and I'm like, you have
to you have to, like you have to understand that
we need more of you out You need to be
doing the stuff. You need to get out there because
the world has got a lot of shipboks and you're
(30:38):
one of the good ones. And like you need to
understand that. And like yourself, you know when people, all
of them, You've had such a huge response I've seen
on your socials and that and so many people such
a huge response. And part of that is because you've
broken the mold of their perception. They go, you have
referred to yourself as this quiet, painfully shy, introverted person,
(31:02):
but beneath that there is this highly intelligent, sharp, thinking,
awesome human and people need to see that because it
gives them permission, Like people need to see people who
relate to you if they go, well, hang on, like
Kel was shy too, and I remember when Kell couldn't
(31:23):
do this or that, and then all of a sudden,
look at her. Now it's like, well maybe I can.
It's permission. That's why I'm so loud about everything, is like,
it's not because I think I'm amazing. Sometimes I'm just
I think there's a part of me that's still this
little kid from Tazzy that goes, I'm here doing this
and if I can do it, fucking anyone can. All
you've got to do is just do it and love
(31:45):
it and make a bit of bloody, annoying tazzy twang
noise about it. Like I get so excited about that
part of it.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think, yeah, that's such a good
point in that it shows others what they can do
and Yeah, it's definitely a situation of visibility and just
showing what you can do. And even you know what,
last time when we were talking, I think I referenced
(32:14):
something about doing something even though you're scared, like just
do it scared, And I really like that saying, and
you know, stolen it from one of the many podcasts
I listened to, but absolutely like, just do it scared.
And so, you know, I was invited to a big
meeting at work the other day, and as much as
I really wanted to be that, I was terrified I'd
(32:34):
never sat at the table with these people. And you know,
then after you know, a couple of minutes or whatever
it was, I'm like, can I just say and can
I can I contribute here? And it's almost that it
comes back to it for me, Like one of the
biggest things that I dealt with with my psychologist was
(32:54):
social anxiety. And as much as like I'd be looking
at all these places online, all these cool things that
I wanted to do about nah, I can't do that,
not cool enough, There'll be too many people, I'll be overwhelmed.
And she was like, the only way to get through
that is to actually do it. So it was this
(33:14):
kind of exposure therapy. And so the more that you
do it, the easier it becomes. And that's probably where
I'm at with a lot of things now in that
the more I'm doing it, the easier it will become.
Like I, you know, texted you yesterday and said, I
put a video of myself on my TikTok. I've never
done that.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
You know, But part of it was like I thought
it was going to be this huge philosophical conversation. It
was my cat, Cat Cat.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah, but you know, part of me was like, why
am I putting myself, you know, on a video? Who
gives a shit? And then I'm like, that's fun? Why not?
Like everyone else is putting themselves out there? And yeah,
I just thought it's one of those things. The more
(34:07):
I do it, and if this is something that I
really want to do and it is, then why not.
The more I do it, the easier it will become.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Just thinking about we try and avoid uncomfortable emotions, and
that's what the whole honesty thing is is we try
and take responsibility for how something is going to land,
and it's going to be uncomfortable, it's going to be
uncomfortable because we're going to use our voice for the
first time. But there's no escaping uncomfortable because we either
(34:38):
deal with the discomfort of that which has the potential
to give us a really positive outcome and growth, or
we have the ongoing lingering discomfort of regret or having
our boundaries crossed, or not being you know, being suppressed.
You can't suppress that shit.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
No. And also one of the big things for me
is just I can't keep wondering what if so in
wanting to write, Like that's when I was like eighteen,
I had two really amazing internships. So the first one
was Home and Away. I got to go and yea
(35:22):
to their script department. Yeah, and then Neighbors, so like
at the time it was you know, the two biggest
TV shows in Australia. I got to go and have
work experience on and I was like, that's it. I'm done.
I'm going to get a job here. This is the
rest of my life locked in. And I remember having
conversation with the producer on Neighbors, like the script producer,
(35:44):
and I said, you know, can I do this? How
I got what it takes? And She's like absolutely, you
know you can write really well, but you're nineteen. You
have no life experience. What stories have you got to tell?
And so that's always been in the back of my
mind that you know, now that I've got life experience,
now that I've gone and like I've traveled, I married,
(36:07):
I'm you know, working of what stories can I tell?
So that, for me is the biggest I can't have
that what if. So I push myself to write something
every single day, even if it shit. You know, most
likely it shit, But I write something every single day
because yeah, that's I can't have the what if. I
(36:28):
don't want to get to what is it? The craigsis
you know, in a minute, you'll be five years older
and you don't change anything, you'll be in the same position.
So yeah, that's that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I love that, you know, I'm doing my course at
the moment. And one of the things I'm reminded of,
which I've let fall away for a long time just
from being busy, is just creating content of this bullshit
that's going through my mind because there's so much, you know,
I'm having several conversations on my show and his every
(37:01):
week with awesome humans and lots of data coming in,
lots of processing happening, and you know, I'm coaching people.
I'm coaching them in the gym, I'm coaching them in programs,
face to face, it online, and you know, I'm doing
all of this stuff and sometimes in the middle of that,
and then there's just all this stuff always bouncing around
my mind like it's learning, it's evolving, my perspectives are changing.
(37:24):
I'm you know, I sat at the cafe this morning
for two hours and I loved it because I just
was just writing. I was just writing things that I
was new perspectives or things that I was making sense
of and putting them into words and putting them out.
So I'm doing more videos like that now. Some of
them are just a bit of bullshit, to be honest,
Like you know, picking up dog Pooh on after and
(37:46):
how cruel is that? Right, let's talk about that. Luna
takes a good five minutes sometimes to find the perfect
bush to take it pooh, and like serious, serious work
goes into finding that magical spot and then three seconds later,
I've scooped it up in a black plastic bag and
I just think she must be like, mate, just know
(38:07):
how much work I put into that.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Yeah, you're clearing away her achievement, aren't you?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Anyway back on task, what I'm finding is I'm just
putting a lot of that content out, and it's reminding
me of what interests me. How do I think? What
are my thoughts? What are my thoughts? Because my thoughts
are just in this amalgamation of now literally thousands of
other people's thoughts that have all gotten jumbled up in
(38:37):
my head, and some of them have stuck together and
some of them have split apart, and I don't know
wh what comes from where, and so it's I just
think it really helps us figure out who we are
and what we think, to write and express and get
put words to things.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Oh absolutely, it's certainly that for me. It's always been
that for me. My nan will constantly remind me of
you know, do you remember when you were young and
you'd get like notebooks and stable them together and say
that you've written a book, And I do I remember that?
I think for me, if I'm not creating something, then
(39:18):
it feels like part of me is quite inactive. I
need to be doing that. It's something that just really
works for me, whether I share it or not. And
that's probably the biggest thing as well, or one of
the big things and I'm really pushing myself to do
at the moment, is to actually share it. And that
(39:39):
is equal parts exciting and terrifying, because you know, there
is still like and I think it'll probably always be
there for me. It's just that niggling voice at the
back of my head saying, who do you think you are?
You know well, and it just it really needs to
for it really needs to just come back to the
(40:00):
fact that I do it for myself and that's really
the only reason why if other people enjoy it. When
you know, if I ever choose to share anything, then amazing.
But I have to just do it for myself, even
even if it doesn't go anywhere, even if it doesn't
do anything, I have to do it for myself.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah. Yeah. I was looking at so in part of
the content that I'm writing up for my keynote, and
I was looking at doctor Gibor Mattei's work and in
I think it's in his book when the body says No,
he talks about because I was looking at the effect
(40:43):
on us for not so he says, abandoning your true
self So the idea of wearing the mask, of changing
who you are to fit in, which sounds a bit
wood and fluffy, but like, he's got clinical evidence that
shows how chronically suppressing your emotions and your scent and
your true self to meet external expectations leads to activation
(41:08):
of the HPA axis, persistent stress hormone release like corsol,
and suppressed immune function, increasing the risk of chronic illness.
So it's like, literally, this stuff, this idea of being
nice and being censored and not being who we are
doesn't mean you have to be an asshole. But there's
eight billion plus people on the planet. Just find the
(41:32):
people who you can be you around. Like, if you're
needing to mask and squeash and be nice and fit
yourself into an environment, find a new environment, or bad
shit's gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Absolutely absolutely, And that was That's something that I've been realizing,
even just recently, so putting stock into people who don't
necessarily share your leaves, share your values, and then suddenly
now I'm noticing that I've got people around me like yourself,
Black Craig, a few others who I'm like, well, actually
(42:11):
what they're doing is what I want to do, and
I believe in that, and it's something that I'm really enjoying,
and it's aligning with who I'm trying to be, and
it's like, well, it doesn't necessarily mean that I need
to cut anything or anyone out of my life, but
I can stop worrying about those opinions because if they're
(42:34):
not aligning with where I want to go, then why
am I putting so much energy into worrying about them
when the people who are in that new environment are
cheering me on.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yes, the red thread, mate, follow the red thread.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
The red thread. But it's interesting the thing about masking
as well. So I've seen that a lot with you.
Part of the other community that I'm with him, which
is the LGBTQA plus community. You see it all the
time with people who don't feel like they can be
them trueselves because of because of being gay, and then
you see when they do. You know, even more so
(43:14):
people who are trans, you see that when eventually they
have the strength, they have the support to step into
being who they truly are, there's just this overwhelming acceptance
and happiness that radiates from them. And it's one of
the most beautiful things to see in a human being.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
I've been hanging out with a made of mine and
I won't identify them, not that I want to say
anything terrible, but and they've got some disabilities, they've got
some stuff, and they're one of my favorite They're so
fucking funny. They're one of my favorite humans. And they're
in the speaking space too. So we've been doing a
lot of work together. We've been doing a lot of brainstorming.
(43:55):
And we left this event recently and they rang and
he's like, he was, we're having a laugh, and then
he goes, this is why I love you, mate, Like
I can be myself. Then there's not many people I can.
And it shocked me because I was like, oh, really,
because you're so funny and cool with it and like
(44:18):
it like and I just don't. I don't understand his
world and I didn't think that that'd be a thing.
And then you just kind of go, oh, there's people
like him where he's however he presents, maybe doesn't lack
because they've got this preoccupation with Oh, I see something
that you're dealing with that's really confronting to me. Whereas
(44:40):
he used to joke with me about it and I
and we have the biggest laughs, but yeah, it really
it surprised me. The same thing happened quite a while ago.
One of my Sri Lankan mates. We used to go
cycling a lot, and you talked about going riding motorcycles
up to the country and him and his mates went
to this pub and they walked in and they were
the only dark skinned guys in there. And he goes
(45:02):
and and I was like, is that is that a
thing for you?
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I don't. Of course I don't see it or feel
it because I'm white in Melbourne, which is a pretty
diverse place, but but I'm not the minority and I
so I don't see what he sees and lives with.
And there'd be so many examples of that.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Yeah, absolutely there is. I've seen a few examples of it.
I've never openly been on the receiving end myself, so
I've been quite lucky. But I've seen it before. And
because of someone's preconceived idea of what someone is or
what that means, or what they've been told it is,
(45:46):
you know, there can be quite a lot of offensive comments,
There can be there can be violence. It's yeah, it's
an interesting thing, and you know, I think it just
kind of circles back to what we're talking about initially,
just you know, being honest. A lot of people have
to wear that mask because they can't be honest about
(46:07):
who they are because there's genuine fear of what someone
else might do or say, and that is that's horrible,
that's really horrible. But again, you know, maybe for me,
that's why I've never been really comfortable in you know,
sharing my true self, my whole voice, because for a
(46:30):
long time I did have to along with you know,
being painfully shy and introverted and not wanting to talk.
I couldn't really be who I absolutely was. And yeah,
that's honesty, visibility, everything we've been talking about, right.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Yeah, all the big stuff, all.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
The big stuffe all the big stuff that scares the
shit out of a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah. Yeah, and it's going to think about life and
being a human is you can't do this work until
something in you is ready to do this work, Like
we can't just wheel. Like some people will hear this
conversation and it will spark something because it's their moment,
(47:16):
because it's where they're at. And like I always say,
if someone came up to me in the earliest moments
of boxing, before i'd had my own epiphanies about myself,
before I'd ask myself the questions. If someone come up
and said, a tough girl, you know you're actually terrified.
You know you think you're so tough, But do you
know that you're terrified of people and commitment and connection
(47:39):
and relationships and abandonment? Do you realize that you're just
shit scared? And I would have been like, I'd punch
them in the face, but they're like, you are a dickhead,
because whatever was in me wasn't ready. But then at
some point that question cracked open in my own mind
and I was like, hey, tough girl, what scares you then?
(48:03):
If it's not getting punched in the face. And I
went down the rabbit hole of asking me the questions.
And then I think as the years go by, you
start to see similar messages or things you've read or
heard before, or people conversations you've come across that one
time didn't land, and all of a sudden they land,
and you're like, this is phenomenal, this is life change.
(48:27):
I want to tell everyone, but you can't because everyone's
in a different space.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Absolutely, so one of the biggest things for me. Like, so,
the first ever podcast I started listening to was Osha Ginsburg,
you know, The Bachelor, and I really enjoyed that he
was so honest about everything. And it was around the
time that I had been diagnosed with anxiety, and he
(48:51):
was probably the most open I'd ever heard anybody be
about mental illness. And he was just so raw. He
was so honest about absolutely everything. And then he wrote
a book about it, and I went to and he
did like a show and everything like that, and you know,
(49:11):
all my friends and I'm Osh his biggest fan girl.
I think he's great. And so I went to his
show and you know, met him. And one of the
things that I took from him is that he one
year on Instagram did a selfie every day, and I'm like,
that's the coolest thing in the world. Like that's you know,
it's showing commitment, it's showing sticking to something. And I went,
(49:33):
I wish I could do that, but I'm way too
scared to post a photo of myself. So I did it.
I thought, no, I'm just going to do it, and
it became this thing and it was fun. It was great.
And so I met him and I'm like, I really
need to get a selfie with you, and he's like absolutely,
because I messaged him on Instagram told him and all
this kind of stuff and then having a bit of
(49:54):
a chat and I said to him, what does it
do for you that you have been so honest and
open with telling everybody about what you've gone through? And
he said, it's the freedom, he said, I'm absolutely free.
Nobody has anything on me. It's just freedom, Like I
(50:15):
own it now. And that's why, you know, as much
as there's a lot that I don't say, like, I
absolutely put that out there that yes, this is something
that I deal with and it's just owning it. And
I think, yeah, that absolutely gives you such a freedom
because people can't come up to you and say, hey,
(50:38):
tough girl, you're scared of X, Y and Z. It's like, well, yeah, yeah,
I am. What's your point?
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah yeah yeah. It's like, I'm way more comfortable with
you punching me in the face than asking me on
a date. You know, I just got to talk about
tough girl. What's your plans? What's next?
Speaker 3 (50:59):
What's next? I think I'm planning a podcast potentially. I've
got some people who I think would be really fascinating
to talk to. But I think one is so've I
have recorded a podcast with my name. We did that
kind of pre COVID and that was all of her
(51:20):
life stories and that was mainly for the family, but
a few other people listen as well and that was great.
And then yeah, I did one with a friend as well.
But I think it's making me far more curious about
other people. And yeah, I'd like to line up potentially
a few and then like have a a whole lot
recorded and ready to go, because I think that's been
(51:42):
probably what stopped me from getting the other ones really flowing,
is that it was like, when have we got time
to do one? When can I edit? So I think
having a better plan around it, yeah, and then TikTok
shit posting.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
And you can drop them in seasons because you have
a full time job, you don't have the flex like
I've got a flexibility to just make it work whenever
I need to. But when you've got a full time job,
you can't do a season and then at least you'll
so your listeners have an expectation that okay, we did,
we drop our season and then you can do whatever
(52:20):
in between. You can drop another season. Just gives you
that ability to so that there's no just stopping and
starting without reason.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Yeah, which can be really annoying. Yeah, so look I'm
thinking about that.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Excellent. I'll be prodding about that. So everyone keep your
eyes peeled, because we'll make that happen. It's what we do.
Thanks for another awesome conversation on the show, mate, Oh
thank you. I thank you. A website or something so
people can follow you.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
Well, look, then they can go to my insitut if
they want, which is just at Calstar. That's a I
realized that's a name that was given to me by
a high school friend and it's just stuck kill start. Yeah. Yeah,
I never really wanted to, you know, identify myself on Instagram,
but now I've been trying to change it on there,
and everyone else has got the names that I want.
(53:12):
So there we go. I thank my year twelve buddy
that gave me that nickname.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Shout out to them. Yeah, all right, everyone give her
a follow. She said, it's now never.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I got fighting in my blood, got it, got it,
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