May 21, 2025 • 58 mins
Well, strap in, team. Because this one’s an epic!
Tammy van Wisse is not your average swimmer... unless your average swimmer has clocked over 65,000km in the water, swum the Bass Strait (yep, the ONLY human ever to do it), broken records in honour of childhood heroes, and oh yeah… has a day named after her in New Jersey. No biggie.
But this chat wasn’t just about world records and wild ocean swims. We dove deep into the heart of endurance and what drives someone to keep going when every cell in their body is screaming to stop. Tammy opened up about being the kid no one picked in PE, to becoming a force of nature in open water. She talked about her mindset, her grit, and what happened when life threw her a challenge she didn’t choose (breast cancer).
From the Bass Strait to the chemo chair, from saltwater stings to the quiet moments that crack you open… this episode is about resilience in its rawest form.
One stroke, one moment, one shift at a time!
SPONSORED BY TESTART FAMILY LAWYERS
Website: testartfamilylawyers.com.au
TAMMY VAN WISSE
Website: tammyvanwisse.com
TIFFANEE COOK
Linktree: linktr.ee/rollwiththepunches/
Website: tiffcook.com
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Tiff.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
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hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go to court,
and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers. Know
that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their
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(00:33):
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Temmy Van w'sat Welcome
(00:54):
to Roll with the Punches Tip.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
It's great to see you, always great to beat you
with you.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's like we've been swimming around in circles, just passing
each other in our in our bloody own. I don't know,
I'm trying to make swimming around. You're just not working.
There we go, thank you, thank you. I was like,
come on, Tiff, think of something swimming. I'm like, no,
you're not a good swimmer. You sung to the bottom
and you crack the shits before you learned how to
(01:20):
do it, So it's not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Hey, we can't be good at everything.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Come on, like, you know, tell me that old have
you got at all of the things?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
That's your perfection's coming out right there? What what do
you mean?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I learned a few things about you about five minutes ago.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Did you be interesting? You know?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I just went. I was like, I just go and
have another look at TAM's website and I was looking
at your one sheet you'll speak of one sheet, Yeah,
and god, there's some cool stuff on there. For a start,
you have a day named after you in New Jersey.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
What I know, it's pretty cool. Look, yeah, something I
never ever expected. So I did this swim over obviously
in New York, New York to New Jersey. And I
really wanted to do it because there was a there
was a record that had stood in the history books
(02:24):
for over eighty years, and the woman that held the
record was a childhood hero of mine. Her name was
Gertrude Edly, and she was from New Jersey. And she
was also the first woman to ever swim in the
English Channel. And I look, I'm really sorry. One of
the regrets in my life is that I never got
to meet her, because I would have just absolutely loved it.
And she was just like a legend. Honestly, she paved
(02:47):
the way for women in sports so many ways because
when she attempted to sim the channel, obviously back in
the early nineteen twenties, women you know, really were considered
able to participate in sport, and and like there was
they were running book books against you know, the odds
against her making it, and people were laughing at her.
(03:08):
And she went over and she not only became the
first woman, but she also smashed the men's.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Record by over two hours. So it's a pretty cool story. Like,
you know, I'm really I'm condensing her story.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
She went through so much, like to get there and
to do it, and even to find a trainer someone
on a boat because you know, the men didn't believe
she was good enough to swim it, so she struggled on.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So many fronts.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
So I either thought it would be amazing to do
the swim to highlight her contribution to women in sport
and particularly you know, like I wouldn't have been marathon
swimming without people like that. So you know, it's really
nice to reflect back and you know, one of the
people that have paved the way for you. So that's
really what the swim was about. And I was really
fortunate I didn't get to meet Gertrude, but I got
(03:51):
to meet all her family, so she never had kids,
but all her nieces and nephews. We went out to
dinner a couple of nights before the swim, and they
were just telling me stories about her, and they also
were on my support boat, which was just like, you know,
it was so inspirational to have that kind of support.
And then when I finished the swim, I broke Gertrude's
(04:12):
record by a bit over two hours, and as I
walked up the beach, the mayor of Monmouth County in
New Jersey actually you know, presented me with the certificate
and said, you know, from this day forth, every twenty
first of July, I will now be known as Tammy
vanwis the day in honor of what you've done. So yeah,
so it's really you know, it's yeah, I just cried,
(04:35):
like honestly, because my whole motivation was really to.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Honor Gertrude and her contribution because I think, you.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Know, it's just so special and she encouraged so many
women to learn how to swim and you know, to
just open their world to what women can do in
the sporting arena.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So it was very early days.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
So I think, yeah, it's just it's a beautiful thing
to have happened. So yeah, I'm really, really really humbled.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
I don't know what say.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
It's a beautiful thing. To have day named after you
is certainly very unexpected.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
It's so special. You just reminded me a previous guest
not that long ago. Tara is a Australian Superbikes rider
who this year was the first female to win a
round in the Australian Superbikes the first female. And she's
this young girl, twenty one. I believe, if my memory
(05:28):
served me, which it really does, get punch in the
head a lot. But I said to her, and I
think of this right now, it is so like that
is a moment that not just lives in history, but
changes the future because when girls see now like you saw,
(05:49):
it's not just possible to do what the blokes do,
it's also possible to win when we join them, it's
possible to be first.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
It breaks countries, it really does, you know, it's the
it's the breaking of the thinking, you know, because let's
face it, you know, in our minds we all sort
of think, oh, you know, no one's ever done that before,
and when the first person does it, and it's funny,
it's you know, once one person doesn't, then you always
see a flat of others sort of following along. So
(06:24):
it's like that invisible barrier. And you're right, it is.
It is more than just a win. It's a it's
a change in history. It's a changing thinking for generations
to come that read that story or see that achievement
and then go, wow, she did that, I could possibly
do that, and then go on to do more. So yeah,
(06:44):
it is. It is incredible. So I think it's just
important that you know that we remember people like that
because I think sometimes we forget, we don't realize, you know,
for us to be able to participate in sport, there's
been a lot of groundwork laid before we even get this.
So that was really, you know, what I wanted to
do because I'd read about Gertrude and I just love
(07:05):
your story. And actually there's there's a film about her
life on Disney Channel and it's called Young Woman Against
the Sea and it is incredible. So if you get
a chance to watch it, or if any of your
listeners want.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
To watch a great movie on the Disney Channel, yeah, Young.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Woman Against the Sea and it basically goes through Gertrude's
history and it's a really great movie. It's all based
on that. So yeah, it's wonderful, Absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
How weird is it to both look up to women
like that? But then, how long did it take you
to realize you were one? When you became one?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Still still don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I get that vibe. I get that vibe. By the way,
you are one. You have a day named after you
in New Jersey.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yeah, today it's a bar of chocolate. Ah, whoa, I've
trouble remembering my birthday, so, you.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Know, just slips through the cracks, but it is nice.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
One of the other things I read on your any
Career Highlights was one point five times around the planet?
Is the distance equivalent to what you have swum? It's
one point five times sixty five thousand kilometers. So the
(08:32):
first question that popped into my head was what drives
somebody to swim one and a half times around the planet?
Swimming like, it's hard, it's dangerous, it feels inconsistent. Right,
(08:55):
you're at the you're at the mercy of the weather
and the condition and all of the things. Tell me
what's underneath that?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Yeah, well it's a very good question and probably something
that I asked myself a.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Lot too over the years doing this.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
But look, if I really peel all the layers back,
i'd have to say it's curiosity. So for me, look,
I wasn't a natural athlete, and in fact, in primary
school I used to get teased because I was overweight
as a child, and so I used to get teased
a lot at school and I hated sports days. I
hated when we had to remember in PRIMI schou I
(09:35):
don't know whether you went through this, but you know
they used to pick teams. We'd go and play cricket
or whatever, and you know, there'd be two captains and
they'd have to choose all the members of the class
and they'd move over to each side. And I dreaded
that because I was always the last kid chosen, and
you know they'd be arguing, I don't want her like
you know what I mean. So for me, yeah, it
(09:56):
wasn't a great experience, and so my parents put me
into swimming lessons. I had something lessons when I was young,
like water familiarization. So at six months of age two,
about five, and then I stopped and then we got
a backyard pool for Christmas, so they put me back
into lessons, proper formal lessons.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I was about nine.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Or ten, and at that stage I did not want
to go to the pool, like honestly, but my parents
were pretty pretty persistent, and in our household, you know,
it was a safety thing, so I couldn't get out
of it. So I guess, you know, I went under
huge protest. I didn't want to be seen in favors.
That was literally, you know, because I've been teased so
(10:37):
much at school. The last thing you want to do
is like parade around in a pair of dogs.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
But no choice, so I did it.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
And it was one of the you know, one of
those situations where when you practice and you do something,
you can discover, you know, new talents that you didn't
know that you had. And so, you know, I gradually
learned how to swim, and you know, my teacher said, oh,
you've actually got a bit of tower in this, and
so I sort of worked my way through lessons and
got asked to join the squad, and you know, and
(11:06):
it was just really exciting for me because, you know,
this revelation that I actually could participate in sport and
find something that I was good at. And so then
I sort of, you know, did a bit of pool
competition for a number of years and loved being under
coaches and you know, I just loved being part of
the squad. You know, something, for me, the most exciting
(11:28):
part of it was actually the camaraderie and the friends
that you make along the way, and that was really
I loved training, not so much competition, person, but I
loved training, just love it. Love the whole getting to
the pool and you know, pushing myself and getting feedback
from the coach and yeah, just that whole, that whole environment.
Really I thrive in that particular environment.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So I did that.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
But my results, you know, were that great in the pool.
I sort of you know, I won some states and
national titles, some state titles, but when I went to nationals,
you know, I really wasn't, you know, in the top echelon.
So I sort of got a bit jaded because my
improvement didn't come and ran about thirteen fourteen, I joined
a life staving club and so I was sort of
(12:11):
doing a bit of open water stuff and learning new
things in conjunction with sort of competition swimming, and I
found that that really took over, and I started entering
things like the Law and Peter pub and I want
it like I was just like blown away.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
And then I started to really like open water way
more than the pool.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Just because you know, like it was you against the
elements more than you know, being in a stagnant environment
where you know, there's the lame ropes and really only
you sort of tenth of a second improvements. So that
really caught my imagination. And so the curiosity then began,
like in doing these open water events, like okay, I've
(12:52):
done this one, how much further can I go? So
I do another one and you know, go from one
point two k to five k to ten you know.
Then I did a twenty case and I, you know,
never swum twenty k's before. And there was just this
there was a race advertised in Port pilip Bay from
Baumorris to Frankston, and I thought, you know what, I'll
just have a going Yeah, And I remember I was
(13:14):
so scared at the beginning because you know, I thought,
why did I do this? You know, all the doubts
crept in my mind, but I guess I kind of
like got swept along.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And started the event.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
And conditions were great at the beginning, but they turned
at the halfway mark, and I was just petrified of
everything in the open water, like particularly things with teeth,
and I was like, so there were so many fears
and doubts that I had to overcome. But I had
a strategy. I was swimming in a pack, like I
just went help the leather and swam in the pack
(13:47):
because I just let if anything happened, So I believed
shark take someone else, and I could use my springing
ability to get back into the you know, get back
into the shore. So anyway work because once the condition
has changed, you know, people dropped off and I found
myself on my own, and my mind just went, you know,
(14:08):
in that moment of you know, looking down and I
saw a shadow and then I went full Spielberg.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I've just learned about cookie cut of sharks.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yes, over in Hawaii, there's been quite a few. Actually, yeah,
I've been reading. There's been quite a few swimmers that
have been trying to swim the Molokai Channel, And yeah,
I think at certain times at dusk, yes, I know
it is serious.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I would be in the grips of a great white
then have a cookie cut of shark. Everybody, go and
google cookie cut of shark bite and just have a
look at what happens. Yes, little piranha look and things.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Well, maybe not because you may never get back in
the water again, like, yeah, I probably don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
But luckily, you know, it depends on where you swim obviously,
so you know, you've got to kind of weigh up things.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And that, you know what idea.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
I went nuts and I swam faster than me and
thought thinking that I'd seen a shark and of course
it was nothing, and.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
You know, as you do, and then of course, you
know reality, you.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Know, the heart rate came back down and I realized that,
you know, that fear, I could either you know, panic
and fall in a heap, or you know, you can
channel it, you know, And it actually gave me an
adrenaline rush, and I thought, you know, come on, you're
just being silly. You know, you're going to rationalizing and
ask yourself the right questions when you're in those situations
and say, okay, well look it was nothing. And quite
(15:35):
often we jump to conclusions, you know, so many times
in life, we you know, we panic about things that
are really quite minor and we just have to be
able to.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Sort of breathe, which is what I did.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
I just concentrated on my breathing, got my breathing back
under control, you know, worked on my bilateral breathing again,
you know, counting every three.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, let's come now, start thinking properly, ask.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Yourself the right questions and realize, you know, hey, three
quarters of the way, nothing's going to get me. I'm fine,
just keep moving forward. So I did, and I ended
up actually winning that twenty case whom I came third overall,
and I was the first girl home, and the conditions
were horrendous at the end, like out of the twenty
eight people that started, only twenty one finished. So and
(16:21):
I just realized that I had this talent for endurance,
like the further the distance than the harder it was,
you know, I guess, you know, mentally, I.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Was just able to cope. And I kind of.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Bring that back to my parents, particularly my dad, because
growing up My parents both immigrated to Australia back in
the sixties. They came out on a boat from Holland
and my dad lived through the tail end of World
War Two and he was just a young boy at
the time. But he used to tell us stories all
the time, particularly you know about my grandfather who apparently
(16:54):
walked like over eighty kilometers to go and get the
family a loaf of bread through you know, Upied territory.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So I could have easily been killed.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
So many little stories like that, and he always is
to say, you'd be surprised what you can do, like
your mind can do in credit, like if you learn
to think properly, you know, and control your might, you
can do amazing things.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
And it always was something that he said.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
And also to be humble, to appreciate, you know, the
roof over our head and food on the table.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So I think having that as part.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Of my I guess, you know, feedback growing up hearing
those kind of stories all the time. Also you know,
channeled my thinking and so that that helped too. So
I think that's why I ended up in the endurance
side of things. Just yeah, genetically obviously that suited me.
But the mindset was there for that type of event
as well.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I love that when when you first started kind of
talking about the open water compared to the pool, I
started picturing and feeling an alliance between how I felt
with boxing of this sense of I know. I felt like,
I know I'm not the best, and I'm not the
most talented, and I'm not necessary. I don't feel good
(18:08):
at this at all. But what I do know is,
however good I am, I know I can stay that
good through the hardest shit. I know I can endure
more for longer than you, not you, but everybody else.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
And that was.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
In the thick of the chaos, in the thick of
the punches and the hard it was like, that's cool,
I can deal with hard watch me. And that's how
I felt listening to you talk about the open water,
of like, Okay, I can do I can be this
good for as long as it takes.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Absolutely absolutely, and that you know, And that's a that's
a lot mindset that helps you through life because you know,
when you think about it, you know you don't have
to be fearless too. It's not about being fearless because
we all live with fear and doubts and you know,
question our ability or choices, and you know, wonder about
whether we can do things. But it's about taking that
(19:03):
next step forward and believing that you know, even they
can't see the finish line, trusting that you'll be able
to get there and stay the course more than anything else,
and taking those steps all the time. And that's you know,
really excise me something that I think you know as
being I just I am so grateful that I did
marathons in me because it's really helped me through life.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Because we all face challenges and big waves, whether.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
It in the boxing ring or in the you know,
in the ocean, that it happens in life too. So
the same mindset that you know we learn as athletes
really transpose us into real life and helps you get
through ordinary challenges as well.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah, one last swimming thing I want to ask you about,
because there's way, like I want you for about four
days on this. There's so much but that the best
like the only person to have ever swum the bast straight.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
That that water in Tasmania, Victoria. Yeah, which is treacherous.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Well, I mean it's terrible enough getting on, but I've
worked on the spirit of Tazzy Forrile, it was rough
enough doing that crossing and paid for it in a
cozy little boat. You're all crazy, But how does it
feel to know, Okay, I did that cool, cool cal
but no one else in the world has done it.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I know, I'm waiting for somebody to do it, because
you know, those ones are put down so that somebody
else can do it, right, And I did this in
nineteen ninety six, So we're going on, you know, thirty
years next year.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I can't believe it because I.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Have reunions with my crew, and we did have a
twenty year reunion, so I think I need to pull
my finger out and start organizing the.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Thirty Yeah, we're all still around thinking, but it's yeah,
it's one of those conic Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Look, it was something you know, I was told it
was impossible when I was thinking about doing it, because
I didn't a lot of research and spoke to a
lot of experienced mariners and Sydney the Hoebart yacht races,
and I guess, you know, people project their I guess
their fears onto you, not out of wanting to stop you,
(21:12):
but I guess, you know, everybody has doubts about things.
So and when something hasn't been done before, you know,
they tend to be even more negative about it, so
I guess, and reasonably so, because you know, a boat
crossing can be done a lot faster than a swim crossing,
and it's it's a matter of, you know, do you
get the luck with the weather. That's that's the big question.
So not so much the distance, but it's just you know,
(21:34):
can you handle the conditions that are going to be
throwing it.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
So that was the big challenge.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
But my mindset was like, just because something hasn't been
done before doesn't mean it can't. So I moved forward
and I was able to have a wonderful support crew
around me, you know, to help me with logistics, and
you know, they all believed in the mission and they
believed in me, and I think, you know, without that support,
(22:00):
I wouldn't have been able to get that swim off
the ground because you know, you can't do anything on
your own.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
You really do need a village, you know, to lift
you up and pick you up.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Because there were so many times that you know, I'd
take two steps forward and one back. I struggled to
get sponsorship for the swim because nobody believed it was possible.
So you know, I had to have a shark cage mate.
And you know it's not like there's blueprints sitting around,
like you know.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
This is how you do it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
So we were really we're really adapting and creating new
things the whole way along, because again, there was no
training plan, so like, you know, how do you train
for something like that?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
How do you prepare your body?
Speaker 4 (22:40):
You know, I had to be ready to swim in
freezing waters for you know, I was thinking twenty to
twenty four hours, you know, worst case scenario. So yeah,
I was there weren't nutritionists around that could you know,
offer you advice on how to cope with hypothermia, So I.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Mean, you know, I knew you had a For instance,
I was trying.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
To put on weight because that's quite often what you
have to do to survive a swim in freezing water.
You need to have the body fat to be able
to cope so that you know, you don't get pulled
out with hypothermia. So I was eating a lot of
carbs and you know rice passaes at the beginning, but
my training I was swimming. I'm going to say six
(23:23):
hours a day, three in the morning, three in the afternoon.
So I was summing twenty sometimes twenty five k's a day,
six days a week, going to the gym about three times.
So I had pt and you know, strengthening the upper
body to be able to punch through the waves. And
you know, I was doing a little bit of cross
training as well, so I was probably having a forty
(23:43):
hour week of swimming and just you know, keeping myself fit,
so eating enough to maintain.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
How many calories was that?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Oh, goday, God, I wouldn't even know.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
I wouldn't even know how to calculate it, because it
was just yeah, if you think about it.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Like.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So to not only not only fuel that, but then
to put on additional weight.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Correct, correct, Like you know, he asked me to put
on weight when I'm not training, not a drum FA's
with the dilemma of training that much and fueling just
to keep up with what you're doing, let alone trying
to you know, have additional weight.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I was aiming to put on twelve kilos that
was the goal. And so.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Traditional eating didn't work, so I reverted to eating cake, chocolate,
you know, maccas KFC, you know, all the high fat
foods as well as the carbs, and it was literally
like a full time job trying to eat. So if
I wasn't sleeping or assuming I was eating, I had
doggie bags in the car with Mars bars and all
(24:48):
sorts of things. So I was desperately trying to put
on this weight because I knew the swim depended on it.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Like, you know, I laugh about it that.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
You know, my brother was actually pulled out of the
English Channel with hypothermia four kilometers away from the coast
of France and he stopped breathing and he had.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
To be resuscitated. So it's a very serious.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Factor that you have to deal with when you're in
open water, and especially very cold open water. So I
did manage to finally put on the weight and probably
helped that I started from King Island because the dairy
was eating all the cheeses and the cream and but yeah,
(25:30):
so there were so many factors to consider and so many,
you know, so many different things.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
But my crew were just incredible.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
And yeah, so we got we got over to King
Island and we actually had to wait for seven days
befo I got a window to swim because there was
one hundred not winds blowing all around the che kilometers
an hour.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Oh wow. Yeah. You literally had to lean forward to
walk down the street. It was that it was that bad.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And were you like, is this a sign to you?
Speaker 4 (26:01):
While I was looking out towards Victoria and obviously, you know,
most days you couldn't see it, and you know, and
there's these waves that are as tall as you know,
small buildings basically, and so again, you know, you have
to keep your mindset positive and you have to believe
in yourself and believe that you're going to get the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
And I had to wait seven days, but finally I
got a little teeny tiny window and it wasn't perfect,
but conditions sort of settled a little bit, and like
many things, that's you know, having the courage to start.
It was the hardest part, probably standing on the shore
and going right, this is it got to go. And
I'm very lucky that I've had Dawn Fraser in my
(26:46):
support crew as well. She's been my mentor for many,
many years. And so Dawn was over on King Island
and on my boat for the swim, and she kind
of gave me a little whisper in the air. I
think she can see, you know, the fear and the
doubt excise me bubbling away inside me, and she kind
of said, you've got this done, all the training, Let's
do it. And so off I went and swam out
(27:08):
to my support boat anchored about a couple of kilometers away,
and climbed on board the shark cage and off we
went and a venture.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Of a light tim. I tell you the probably some of.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
The toughest eighteen hours that I've never had to go
through in my life, because, you know, we the swells
were incredible. We had three to four meter swells most
of the way. And my fisherman said to me, he
worked out in the Straits for thirty years in fishing scollops,
and he said to me, you're so lucky that it.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Is so calm. And that was three to four meter swells.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
So it was a battle for me being in the
shark cage because I was smashed around from side to side, and.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I really how big is a shark cage.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Shark cage was five meters wide, seven meters long, two
meters deep, so you could park two small in it,
like the size of a small garage.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, right, big, big on land.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Were there sharks out there? Did you see them?
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I did not, so it was very lucky. Didn't see anything,
thank goodness. Not not on that particular swim anyway, so
we were fortunate. So yeah, yeah, I felt protected in
the cage as well.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I had it made out of amply missed security or materials.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
I saw an ad for Valerie Taylor, the diver, and
she used to dive with sharks all the time and
her cages were always made out of the amply missed
security dormitories.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I thought, you know what, it's good enough for Belve,
good enough for me.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
But of course there was never any footage back in
those days like you see on YouTube now with.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
The sharks jumping. I could have been in massive trouble
if I had one that jumped.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Oh god.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But anyway, we were worried about that. I'm here and
I've got all my limbs intact.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Eighteen hours. I was going to ask how long it
took souse.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
I wasn't aware, and yeah, seventeen hours and forty six
minutes it took me to go from King Island to
a Holidays. So yeah, it was a long journey. And
probably the hardest part. I started at quarter to six
in the evening because that's sort of when we just
got this window break. And to be honest with you,
(29:21):
I didn't really have that many more options anyway, because
I only had enough money to last for seven days,
like to be able to house the crew, and you know,
because they'd all taken time off work, they were all volunteers.
So you know, it was an incredible just so incredible
when I think back that we just got this chance.
On the seventh day, could in the evening and we
(29:43):
headed off, and like I said, it was pretty eerie
swimming in the night as well. So swimming in the
dark is fairly is a whole other mindset because you
really are isolated. You can't see your support crew as well,
you can't read messages on the whiteboard.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You know, it's a quiet time. It's just hard.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
You're very much in your own mind trying to negotiate
all the time, really because the body, you know, starts
telling you that I want to give up, as you
would know, and it's about negotiating for it to go
that little bit further. You know, hey, come on, hold on,
you can keep going. So I managed to get through
the night. By the time the sun rose, I was
(30:26):
pretty shattered, and to be honest with you, my crew
were actually preparing to extract me. They thought I wasn't
going to make it. I was so down and out,
like I really, you know, I ended up. I was
crying in my goggles. I was so broken. I literally
had just survived the night. And then I had a
(30:46):
like a swarm of jellyfish invaded the cage, and the
tentacles stung me on the face and they got me
on the lips and inside my mouth, and it was
kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back
because I was so cold, I was so tired, was
exhausted from just surviving the swells, and things had just calmed,
and then, you know, I thought I had a little reprieve,
(31:07):
and then the jellyfish came, and so I just.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I just started crying.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
My gog was I kind of had a bit of
a funny moment where I laughed to myself and thought, yet, great,
more salt water, because my tears were salt, and I
was just salt.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Order had permeated everywhere.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
And so I had my throat and tongue was swollen
up from the salt water. So I was struggling to
take down sustenance. My stomach was churning because again I'd
ingested salt order during the night. I had welts under
my arms because saltiers very embracing, and so from the
repetition of the arms turning over, I had massive welts
(31:42):
under my arms. That just that, you know, the pain
that seared every time I took another strike, just you know,
another reminder of you know, the.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Bad shape that I was in. But the jellyfish just
really you know, with the icing on the cake.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
And so I remember, I actually and I know, and
as I said, I could see all the crew they looked.
I knew they were preparing. I knew what the process
was to get me out, and I knew they were preparing.
And I turned around to Dawn and I said, you know,
how long have I got? Like, what's the worst case scenario?
I was trying to prepare my mind to think, okay,
(32:19):
how much further I got to go? And so I
saw her go away and chat to the navigator, and
she came back and she said to me, look, worst
case scenario, you've got another six hours left, and to
be honest with you, it almost broke me hearing six
hours because I was finding it difficult to concentrate on
the next six minutes, let alone six hours. So I
really had to dig very very deep mentally and just
(32:44):
concentrate on one really, really small thing and just say, Okay,
it's six hours out of a whole life to do
something that no one else has done before and tolerate
a little bit of pain, So come on, let's get
back to the job.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
And I fell back.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Into a pattern that I practiced during my training when
I was really tired, and that was just counting my strokes.
So I'd count sort of up to twenty and then
start again, count up to twenty, start again, and my
goal was just to get to the next speed stop
because I was feeding every half an hour. So it
was literally, let's break this down to the smallest possible
thing that I can do in this moment, you know,
(33:23):
just to build a bit of momentum, because quite often
when you're broken, you just need something to get the
momentum back. And once you get your momentum, then you know,
your mind starts to come on board and you can
get to that next phase. So I was literally building
my momentum, and I think I was swimming for about
fifteen minutes, and then I started to hear this amazing
clicking noise under the water, and I saw the crew
(33:45):
all pointing to something in the distance, and I had
an idea of what it might be. But within a
couple of minutes, I had a pot of about thirty
world dolphins swimming all around my cage, all underneath me,
and the clarity of the water investrates such that I
could see literally you know them alls, you know, sort
of swimming around me.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
And they were so noisy.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Literally for me, that was so noisy under the water,
and I was just like in seventh Heaven. And I
remember I turned around and I said, to doorn, you
know right, stop the boat. I want to get out
of the cage. I want to play with my dolphin
mates for just a.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Couple of minutes.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
And it was just one of those moments, you know,
when sometimes you just need to build your bucket, you know,
replended spirit. And even though I knew I was taking
time away and tides could change and things, this is
what I needed in that moment to you know, charge
my battery back up again. And so I climbed out
of the cage and I had the most incredible.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Experience with the dolphins. They were just so close to me.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
There were a couple of baby dolphins in the pot
and they were literally, like, you know, that close to me,
and I was so inquisitive, and you know, just watching
them and how they swam, you know, just made me
feel like pretty insignificant because they were just so graceful
moving through the water. But I kind of felt like
they were there for a purpose and a reason and
(35:11):
a kind of saying to me.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Come on, you can do this. So I was recharged.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
I jumped back in the cage and kind of it
was a real pivotal moment for me. And again my
thinking became very.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Steady at that point. But yeah, I'm going to make it.
Nothing's going to stop me now.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
So you know, the dolphins stayed with me for another
hour or so whilst I was in the cage, kind
of just shadowing and yeah, and as I said, I
finally made it to Apollo day and walked up the
beach and it was just the most incredible experience of
my life, really one of because you know, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Expect many people to be there.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
I just thought, like the rent a crowd, family would
be there and that's it. But there were like three
thousand people.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
On the beach because all the news.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
And started to sort of you know broadcast you know,
the radio station.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
She's going to make it. She's like, you know, she's close.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
So people were activated and they literally just drove down
to the finish to see me. And yes, it was
just amazing. But the best part was having seen my parents,
you know, because we had you know, I cried so
my mum, dad because you know, but your parents know
what you've been through, like not just for that particular thing,
but the years of effort and sacrifice that have gone
(36:28):
into you know, finishing that particular event or getting to
the end of your goals.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
So it was a very very special moment.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah, I love that so much. I was just, yeah,
so immersed in that when what I know and what
you know is when we do things like this in sport,
what we learn and we get to take out out
of the water, out of the ring, out of into
real life. Right, So we have these experiences and I
(37:00):
know that now you get to reflect back through hard
things and one you're already conditioned to a degree, you
know what it feels like. You know how to cope,
You've got all these tools. But what's different? What aren't
you prepared for when it's a hard that you don't
choose in comparison to a hard that you choose.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Oh, I got a perfect example of that.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Actually this coming week, I actually celebrate two years since
I had my last cancer treatment, because I was diagnosed
with breast cancer in twenty late twenty twenty three, and
that was an endurance event of zone and not of
my choosing, and it left me feeling very very vulnerable
(37:50):
and in fact also betrayed because I guess, you know,
my body has always done what I've told him to.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Do, and here it was, you know, with a.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Foreign thing inside, and all of a sudden I was
thrown into the deep end of a very very different sort.
So I felt very vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, just I.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Honestly didn't know how to react for a little bit
when I was first off. But then I guess, you know,
the mindset keep back in and it's just like a
marathon swim, you know, you just have to transpose the
lessons over and say, well, you know, you can't always
see the finish line.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
But you've got to.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Trust in the process and trust in that you have
the strength to keep going and reflect on Okay, well,
you've done lots of hard things, so now it's time
to do another hard thing. But it's just going to
be different. And although there were so many moments of
darkness and doubt, you know, you wonder, you know, how
(38:48):
am I going to come out of this on the
other end? Am I going to make it through to
the other end? How am I going to survive? What
is it going to look like? You know, so much uncertainty,
And although there were moments of darkness, there were also
lots of moments of light and I think, you know,
part of what we do is trying to find those
rays of sunshine and have people around you that bring
(39:09):
those rays of sunshine as well, so you know, through it,
you know, although it was really difficult going through chema
and going through surgery, you know, there were beautiful people
always around me. Like you know, you have a laugh
with the nest and you know, joke about something. When
I remember when I first started chema, I chose an
option where you wear this cold cap and it literally
(39:31):
is supposed to help retain your hair. That's what they say.
It takes an extra hour you have.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
To sit there. Excuse me, and.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
The irony of it. It looks like a swimming cap,
like you just puts really really cold water into into
the cap and it literally cools your head right down.
And they said to me, oh, look, they didn't know
why I was a swimmer anything about what it done.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
So there.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
The oncology would sat me listen it. You know, it's
pretty tough. Like a lot of people just can't can't
sit there for that long because it gets so cold.
Your head gets really cold, and you know, if you
need the dolls and stuff like, you know, we'll understand
if you can't get through. So I'm sitting there and
I've got the cap im in there pumping it through
and I'm like and they go, how are you? And
(40:18):
I'm like, is this as cold as it gets? And
they were like, you know, like it was quite funny.
So you know, so there moments where I just laughed
and thought, see, you know, things that you do sometimes
help you for something else.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
The on shod and be like, hey, oh look I.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Tell you, but I think I tell you what I
wasn't prepared for though. It was like after my second
chemote session, I actually woke up one morning and I
had just clamps of hair on my pillow and it just,
you know, started to come out. And I know it
seems really stupid, but I was just a mess. Like
losing my hair was just like I don't know why,
but it just made me feel, I don't know, so sad,
(41:05):
so upset. And maybe maybe it's because up to that point,
like I could do normal things and no one would
actually know really that I was sick, Like you know,
there wasn't any outward signs, and now I was losing
my hair, and so you know, there was something that
about that made me more vulnerable for people to kind
of see what I was going through. And I remember,
(41:27):
like I was just like I said, I cried, and
I remember my daughter said to me, hey, Mum, do
you want me to shave it for you? And I thought,
oh god, she's a sweetheart, Like honestly, that's exactly what
I needed. We've got the clippers out, we shaved my head,
and it brought back that feeling of control because now
(41:48):
you know, I.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Was in charge of what was happening. It wasn't just
happening to me.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
I had some sense of Okay, now I'm going to
dictate what happens.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
And I felt so much better about it.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
And again my spirits picked up and it ended up
all falling out. But you know, I was okay with
that because I was already really short, and I discovered
so many wonderful things, Like I was still trying to swim,
so I was getting to the pool. I was only
doing a couple of ka's, but I was able to
swim without a cap for the first time and feel
the water over my.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Head, and I was stream wise, and I got out
at the end.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
You know, I didn't have to spend ages in the shower,
saving money on shampoo and conditioner, and mate, I used
to spend so much time straightening my hair, and you
know it, I was getting ready so fast.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
It was just unbelievable. So there were lots of perks,
and I think we've always got to look for those perks, you.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Know, I've got to look for those little tiny moments
of goodness that you find, those little rainbows, and they're everywhere,
but you just have to look for them. Even in
the darker spots you can find them. But it's just
having the mindset and the attitude to go. Do you know,
I don't have to sit in this this space where
I'm really like, it's okay to be there, and we
all do it, so there's nothing wrong with it. But
(43:04):
you know, it's about processing it and going like I've
been here long enough. Now I have to find a
way to lift myself back out again. So cancer really
taught me that in a different way. But I just
got to use the lessons, I guess in a different environment.
And as I said, yeah, I wouldn't have gotten through again.
Just like my swims where I had the all the
(43:24):
crew on the support boat cheering me on and feeding
me and encouraging me and being there for me and
keeping me safe.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I had that through my cancer journey to and again.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Just beautiful moments where people I hadn't seen for years
turned up at my doorstep and they cook food, you
know when I was going through chemo. You know, calls
and friends that offered to take my daughter to school.
Just the most beautiful things, you know, people offering to
help and come around and mow the lawns and do
things for you, and it's actually to you. It is
(43:58):
just the most beautiful feeling to know that you're surrounded
by such wonderful people, that people people are genuinely really good.
And I know we often get into that thought process.
We hear about lots of bad stuff going on, and
we kind of think humanity is going down the tubes.
But people are inherently good and when they see somebody
(44:18):
else needing help, they do step in. And that's been
my experience, and that's probably been one of the most
beautiful parts of going through cancer and understanding how many
people are around me that you know that will help
and you know that I'm part of this big community.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Was it ever, what was the experience like of when
you did lose your hair and you're stepping out into
just into the world.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Going shopping, going down a wall.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
So we have this, we have an identity, and we
have a sense of self and we and we have
I don't know this just way of being. But when
people people project onto you, So they're going to look
at this person no straight away that they're sick, there's
going to be they're going to feel sympathy, and they're
going to feel empathy, and they're going to be awkward
(45:10):
and they're going to pretend to ignore it, or they're
going to ask questions like what, how do you hold
yourself in the middle of that.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Yeah, and again this was like a really massive learning
journey for me because you know, going out, I wore
I wore a hat. I didn't have like a lot
of people get the wigs with the fake care so
that you know, you can get these amazing things now
that you can get a hat and has a little
bit of hair hanging out the back and.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
You know, so you wouldn't even know.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
There was lots of options like that, and lots of
people choose that, And I understand why, because you know,
when you're sick and you're not feeling well and you're
going through all of this, it is it is hard
to also, you know, keep yourself mentally strong as well.
But I just found I started wearing a hat and
most of the time I really just thought, you know what,
(45:58):
I don't care what other people pople think, like, I
just sort of went and did my shopping, you know,
went out to the world. I think maybe something that
had helped me is i'd done an improv course not
before I was diagnosed, and one of the exercises is
necessarily funny. We actually had to go to the supermarket
and put a bunch of bananas on a head and
(46:21):
walk around the supermarket with a bunch of bananas on
a head, like do our shopping with and see what
the reaction was from people. Because the whole premise was
is that you think people are looking at you and noticing.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
And really they don't care like you have.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
You know, we all think, oh my god, everybody's going
to judge me, and that the real reality is is
that most people are so busy doing their own things
that they don't even notice. And I walked around with
a bunch of bananas on my head for about five minutes,
like all around the supermarket down the earth, and I
got new comments and one elderly lady said to me,
I'm like your.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Hat, and that was We had a laugh, you know,
and that was really about it. And I was so
surprised that nobody really even noticed. So going, you know,
going without my head.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
To the supermarket, I just you know, if they noticed,
great they come up and say something, well, you know,
I was more than prepared to sort of talk. But
mostly I found that people might have known obviously they
knew I was going through something and they were nice,
you know, they were just super nice.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
They offered help.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
Like you know, I had people offered to carry my
bags to the car that you know would never normally happen.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
So again you can be offended by that, but you.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Know, I choose to see the good and think, isn't
it lovely that people want help? And again, I guess
it just comes down to your attitude and how confident
you are in your own skin about those things. And
it is a learning process. Really, you have to come
to adapt. And I think, you know, that's the most
brilliant thing about us is that we're so adaptable. Really,
(47:58):
life is about adaptable, you know, adapting to different situations
and just changing your perspective and understanding how other people perceive,
but also thinking and understanding that sometimes you overthink things
as well. So it's it's incredible, really we've got this
mindset that is a superpower computer and doesn't come with
(48:20):
the manual, and we're constantly learning how to adjust and
what our limitations are and what expectations are of us,
and how we can find our own happiness and navigate
challenges and keep going, you know, get that fulfillment and happiness.
So yeah, it was an interesting interesting to go through
the experience as well. Like you know, obviously I wouldn't
(48:42):
wish it on anyone. I think I'd rather be in
the water facing sharks than waiting for a biopsy result.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Ever, again because again it's the uncertainty.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
I think that's the that's the killer with that. It's
just the uncertainty of not knowing. And it still goes
on now because I have to go I'm clear, but
you know, every sort of you know, six to twelve months,
I go for different kinds of tests and you get
checked and so you know, it really brings up what
I call the scan anxiety, you know, waiting and seeing well,
(49:15):
what if it's back, you know, what am I dealing with?
Speaker 2 (49:19):
And the new.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
Challenges of being on medication because I'm on tablets for
the next seven years that really really have.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I find that difficult too. That make my joints ache.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
I feel like I've aged about fifteen years, and physical
things that I used to be able to do really
easily now a lot harder.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
And I have to again, you know.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
Rethink what I can do and be adaptable and just
go okay, well I can't do that, but I can
do this and try and manage a bit better. So
it's all, yeah, all that perspective.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Yeah, do things like this change you at the very
core or do you tend to bounce back as the
same a version of the same person. Person.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
I don't think you can ever bounce back as the
same I think you've lanned, You've gone through a really
deep personal experience that's changed to the very core, and
I think change for the good, to be honest, because
I have so much more empathy as well, you know,
see things in a different light. And it's that old
(50:24):
story is like, if you've never been through an experience,
it's really hard for you to relate. And I think
when you go through an experience, you can relate better
to others, and so it just it makes you a
better person, I think, and changes your views if you
take it that way, obviously, but you know, I think
it really does help you understand the struggles that people
(50:45):
go through.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
And yeah, even for me sitting in the Youngcology ward
and getting your chemo treatment, I was looking around and
you know, there were really young women in there with
young kids, and it's a whole other situation, you know,
if you're you've got a young family, and I thought.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
To myself, I'm so lucky.
Speaker 4 (51:03):
You know, my daughter's in their teenage years and I've
finished obviously with family. But you know, that would be
a whole other challenge. And I just thought, how how
hard struggling in that position. So you can find things
to be grateful for as well, And I think there's
always somebody that's going through life and doing it a
bit tougher than you. But you've just got to again,
(51:27):
you know, be in that frame of mind to be
grateful and think about the blessings that you do have.
And a lot of the times, don't we get caught
in our own.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Situations, And you know it's easy to do.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
I do it too, like you know, I'm guilty of
it as well, but you know, I try and bring
myself back and I think going through the whole cancer
experiences help me do that, you know, and see things
from different perspectives again and just have more empathy for
people that are struggling or you know, there's a story
going on you might.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Not know again, you know, you might see them with
the hair the supermarket, but you don't know that they're
going through chemo treatment.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
So sometimes we see visuals of what people are going
through and other times we don't. We have no idea,
We have no idea what they're struggling through. So it's
about being kind even though someone might not be kind
to you on a certain day. But again, you don't
know what's led to that point. So I always try
and keep that in my mind.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
Yeah, it's an easy balance, or how do you how
do you balance that idea of how to how to
do all the positive stuff, how to be how to
be present, be grateful, know that were that everyone goes
through hardship, but also honor the pain and the self,
(52:40):
you know, the self stuff, self compassion, allow yourself to
feel it.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
It's it's you. Look, you know. I wish I could
say he's the manual, here's how you do it. And
like I said, enough, I want a refund.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
And you know what I'm I learn all the time,
and I think life is just a learning journey and
every day we learn and sometimes we don't get it right,
but then we try.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
And I think it's all about the trying, you know.
Speaker 4 (53:13):
That's really the important part is having that mentality where
you go, oh yeah, well I didn't really behave well yesterday,
or I've been in a rut for a while, but
I need to pick myself up and get going again
and learn. You know, this is what I love about
this day and ages. With technology now, we can learn
so much. We can hear from so many people, we
(53:35):
can be inspired by so many others, And I think
it's all about keeping your finger on the big wide
world and learning, you know, because I think through listening
to others' journeys and being open to reading. I love reading,
you know, just any kind of knowledge, I think keeps
that mind again, it keeps you adaptable because it's giving
(53:57):
you different perspectives and different opinions. It's a balance of
trying to just keep that learning journey going and the
awareness of knowing, Okay, I'm sitting in this space and
it's not good and it's not good for me. So
that's really for me. When I get in the negative space,
(54:18):
you know, might not sleep because I'm ruminating on something.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Next morning.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
I can't do this because it's detrimental to me. I
need to be in a better space for me. I
need to be a better mum, you know. I can't
be fully present for my daughter. If I'm tired, and
you know, then I get cranky. So it's like understanding
how to balance your mind and your body as well.
And yeah, it's tricky though, it's not easy. Like I said,
(54:44):
it's just one of those things that I just intentionally
try and learn. And I know that if I'm in
a bad space, I just try and think, Okay, tomorrow,
Tomorrow we're going to do something different, going to go
for a walk in the morning, going to pay attention
to everything going on, all the beds in the trees.
And one thing that really picks me up is my dog.
He's like, you know, I love the unconditional love of pets.
(55:05):
I think you know when you go whether you go
away for five minutes or you're away for an hour
and you come back home and they're just waiting for
you and they're just full of love and they just
it's something that's so grounding and that really helps me
a lot. And actually my dog Jasper really helped me
through a lot of the cancer treatment too, because he
just sit with me and sit.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
On my lapping. It was like he knew something was wrong.
And even sleep on the bed beside me is just
a lot more calm during that period. So yeah, little
things like that.
Speaker 3 (55:37):
I know, dogs know everything.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
They do, dogs do.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
I say, my dog's my guru.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Dogs are the guru.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
There are a little there are a little four.
Speaker 4 (55:49):
Legged fairy gurus, aren't they aren't they They just got
that sense about them. They just you know, I don't
know what it is. I felt like the dolphins had
that too when I was I was fascinated. It's like,
you know, it's funny you think they know, they know.
If we believe that, then it does the right thing
for us, right, So yeah, honestly, again, it's your perspective
(56:13):
and taking a positive.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
Look on things and going.
Speaker 4 (56:16):
Yep, they got me, and then you know you're able
to lift yourself and get out of bed. And that's
all you need is that first lega Really, it's the
hard things. The hardest part about the hard things is
finding the momentum to get going, just building that first step. So,
you know, one stroke at a time has always been
my motto and always think back to, you know, the
(56:37):
hard times is that, you know, taking that one stroke
and getting to the next moment and then get into
the next moment.
Speaker 3 (56:44):
So yeah, good listening forever, forever, just switch off my mic,
keep my earphones in and just listen to you. Keep talking.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
We'll wrap it up there.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
But I am going to be tugging at your sleeve
because there's so much more in your world that I'd
love to talk about, and I just want to keep
listening to you, so I'll be I'll be hassling you
and my listener.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
You don't have to hassle. I'll be on anytime you
know that.
Speaker 3 (57:18):
You would you like to direct the listeners to where
they can find you, follow you and get in touch.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
Yeah, sure if they want you.
Speaker 4 (57:27):
I'm on Instagram and it's just my just my name,
Tammy Van, with the same with the If you want
to check out my website or you know, book me
for a speaking engagement. Again, it's just Tammy Van WISA
dot com. So I've got a pretty unusual surname. You'll
find me just typing crazy, marathon swimmer and Tammy.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
There's only one.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
That's that's it.
Speaker 3 (57:52):
I'll have your I'll have the website in the show notes.
So thank you so much. I'm glad our pards Christ
and I'm glad that it wasn't in the water, because
I would be sinking at the bottom.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
But in the boxing ring for me, that could have
been really that could have ended badly too.
Speaker 3 (58:08):
On try Land and out of the boxing ring we
can be besties. Thank you so much, Tammy, and thanks everyone.
Speaker 1 (58:19):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Tiff.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
This is Roll with the punches and we're turning life's
hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go to court,
and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers. Know
that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their
team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all
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(00:33):
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Temmy Van w'sat Welcome
(00:54):
to Roll with the Punches Tip.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
It's great to see you, always great to beat you
with you.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's like we've been swimming around in circles, just passing
each other in our in our bloody own. I don't know,
I'm trying to make swimming around. You're just not working.
There we go, thank you, thank you. I was like,
come on, Tiff, think of something swimming. I'm like, no,
you're not a good swimmer. You sung to the bottom
and you crack the shits before you learned how to
(01:20):
do it, So it's not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Hey, we can't be good at everything.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Come on, like, you know, tell me that old have
you got at all of the things?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
That's your perfection's coming out right there? What what do
you mean?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I learned a few things about you about five minutes ago.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Did you be interesting? You know?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I just went. I was like, I just go and
have another look at TAM's website and I was looking
at your one sheet you'll speak of one sheet, Yeah,
and god, there's some cool stuff on there. For a start,
you have a day named after you in New Jersey.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
What I know, it's pretty cool. Look, yeah, something I
never ever expected. So I did this swim over obviously
in New York, New York to New Jersey. And I
really wanted to do it because there was a there
was a record that had stood in the history books
(02:24):
for over eighty years, and the woman that held the
record was a childhood hero of mine. Her name was
Gertrude Edly, and she was from New Jersey. And she
was also the first woman to ever swim in the
English Channel. And I look, I'm really sorry. One of
the regrets in my life is that I never got
to meet her, because I would have just absolutely loved it.
And she was just like a legend. Honestly, she paved
(02:47):
the way for women in sports so many ways because
when she attempted to sim the channel, obviously back in
the early nineteen twenties, women you know, really were considered
able to participate in sport, and and like there was
they were running book books against you know, the odds
against her making it, and people were laughing at her.
(03:08):
And she went over and she not only became the
first woman, but she also smashed the men's.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Record by over two hours. So it's a pretty cool story. Like,
you know, I'm really I'm condensing her story.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
She went through so much, like to get there and
to do it, and even to find a trainer someone
on a boat because you know, the men didn't believe
she was good enough to swim it, so she struggled on.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
So many fronts.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
So I either thought it would be amazing to do
the swim to highlight her contribution to women in sport
and particularly you know, like I wouldn't have been marathon
swimming without people like that. So you know, it's really
nice to reflect back and you know, one of the
people that have paved the way for you. So that's
really what the swim was about. And I was really
fortunate I didn't get to meet Gertrude, but I got
(03:51):
to meet all her family, so she never had kids,
but all her nieces and nephews. We went out to
dinner a couple of nights before the swim, and they
were just telling me stories about her, and they also
were on my support boat, which was just like, you know,
it was so inspirational to have that kind of support.
And then when I finished the swim, I broke Gertrude's
(04:12):
record by a bit over two hours, and as I
walked up the beach, the mayor of Monmouth County in
New Jersey actually you know, presented me with the certificate
and said, you know, from this day forth, every twenty
first of July, I will now be known as Tammy
vanwis the day in honor of what you've done. So yeah,
so it's really you know, it's yeah, I just cried,
(04:35):
like honestly, because my whole motivation was really to.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Honor Gertrude and her contribution because I think, you.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Know, it's just so special and she encouraged so many
women to learn how to swim and you know, to
just open their world to what women can do in
the sporting arena.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So it was very early days.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
So I think, yeah, it's just it's a beautiful thing
to have happened. So yeah, I'm really, really really humbled.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
I don't know what say.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
It's a beautiful thing. To have day named after you
is certainly very unexpected.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
It's so special. You just reminded me a previous guest
not that long ago. Tara is a Australian Superbikes rider
who this year was the first female to win a
round in the Australian Superbikes the first female. And she's
this young girl, twenty one. I believe, if my memory
(05:28):
served me, which it really does, get punch in the
head a lot. But I said to her, and I
think of this right now, it is so like that
is a moment that not just lives in history, but
changes the future because when girls see now like you saw,
(05:49):
it's not just possible to do what the blokes do,
it's also possible to win when we join them, it's
possible to be first.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
It breaks countries, it really does, you know, it's the
it's the breaking of the thinking, you know, because let's
face it, you know, in our minds we all sort
of think, oh, you know, no one's ever done that before,
and when the first person does it, and it's funny,
it's you know, once one person doesn't, then you always
see a flat of others sort of following along. So
(06:24):
it's like that invisible barrier. And you're right, it is.
It is more than just a win. It's a it's
a change in history. It's a changing thinking for generations
to come that read that story or see that achievement
and then go, wow, she did that, I could possibly
do that, and then go on to do more. So yeah,
(06:44):
it is. It is incredible. So I think it's just
important that you know that we remember people like that
because I think sometimes we forget, we don't realize, you know,
for us to be able to participate in sport, there's
been a lot of groundwork laid before we even get this.
So that was really, you know, what I wanted to
do because I'd read about Gertrude and I just love
(07:05):
your story. And actually there's there's a film about her
life on Disney Channel and it's called Young Woman Against
the Sea and it is incredible. So if you get
a chance to watch it, or if any of your
listeners want.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
To watch a great movie on the Disney Channel, yeah, Young.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Woman Against the Sea and it basically goes through Gertrude's
history and it's a really great movie. It's all based
on that. So yeah, it's wonderful, Absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
How weird is it to both look up to women
like that? But then, how long did it take you
to realize you were one? When you became one?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Still still don't know.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I get that vibe. I get that vibe. By the way,
you are one. You have a day named after you
in New Jersey.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Yeah, today it's a bar of chocolate. Ah, whoa, I've
trouble remembering my birthday, so, you.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Know, just slips through the cracks, but it is nice.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
One of the other things I read on your any
Career Highlights was one point five times around the planet?
Is the distance equivalent to what you have swum? It's
one point five times sixty five thousand kilometers. So the
(08:32):
first question that popped into my head was what drives
somebody to swim one and a half times around the planet?
Swimming like, it's hard, it's dangerous, it feels inconsistent. Right,
(08:55):
you're at the you're at the mercy of the weather
and the condition and all of the things. Tell me
what's underneath that?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Yeah, well it's a very good question and probably something
that I asked myself a.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Lot too over the years doing this.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
But look, if I really peel all the layers back,
i'd have to say it's curiosity. So for me, look,
I wasn't a natural athlete, and in fact, in primary
school I used to get teased because I was overweight
as a child, and so I used to get teased
a lot at school and I hated sports days. I
hated when we had to remember in PRIMI schou I
(09:35):
don't know whether you went through this, but you know
they used to pick teams. We'd go and play cricket
or whatever, and you know, there'd be two captains and
they'd have to choose all the members of the class
and they'd move over to each side. And I dreaded
that because I was always the last kid chosen, and
you know they'd be arguing, I don't want her like
you know what I mean. So for me, yeah, it
(09:56):
wasn't a great experience, and so my parents put me
into swimming lessons. I had something lessons when I was young,
like water familiarization. So at six months of age two,
about five, and then I stopped and then we got
a backyard pool for Christmas, so they put me back
into lessons, proper formal lessons.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I was about nine.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Or ten, and at that stage I did not want
to go to the pool, like honestly, but my parents
were pretty pretty persistent, and in our household, you know,
it was a safety thing, so I couldn't get out
of it. So I guess, you know, I went under
huge protest. I didn't want to be seen in favors.
That was literally, you know, because I've been teased so
(10:37):
much at school. The last thing you want to do
is like parade around in a pair of dogs.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
But no choice, so I did it.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
And it was one of the you know, one of
those situations where when you practice and you do something,
you can discover, you know, new talents that you didn't
know that you had. And so, you know, I gradually
learned how to swim, and you know, my teacher said, oh,
you've actually got a bit of tower in this, and
so I sort of worked my way through lessons and
got asked to join the squad, and you know, and
(11:06):
it was just really exciting for me because, you know,
this revelation that I actually could participate in sport and
find something that I was good at. And so then
I sort of, you know, did a bit of pool
competition for a number of years and loved being under
coaches and you know, I just loved being part of
the squad. You know, something, for me, the most exciting
(11:28):
part of it was actually the camaraderie and the friends
that you make along the way, and that was really
I loved training, not so much competition, person, but I
loved training, just love it. Love the whole getting to
the pool and you know, pushing myself and getting feedback
from the coach and yeah, just that whole, that whole environment.
Really I thrive in that particular environment.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
So I did that.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
But my results, you know, were that great in the pool.
I sort of you know, I won some states and
national titles, some state titles, but when I went to nationals,
you know, I really wasn't, you know, in the top echelon.
So I sort of got a bit jaded because my
improvement didn't come and ran about thirteen fourteen, I joined
a life staving club and so I was sort of
(12:11):
doing a bit of open water stuff and learning new
things in conjunction with sort of competition swimming, and I
found that that really took over, and I started entering
things like the Law and Peter pub and I want
it like I was just like blown away.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
And then I started to really like open water way
more than the pool.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Just because you know, like it was you against the
elements more than you know, being in a stagnant environment
where you know, there's the lame ropes and really only
you sort of tenth of a second improvements. So that
really caught my imagination. And so the curiosity then began,
like in doing these open water events, like okay, I've
(12:52):
done this one, how much further can I go? So
I do another one and you know, go from one
point two k to five k to ten you know.
Then I did a twenty case and I, you know,
never swum twenty k's before. And there was just this
there was a race advertised in Port pilip Bay from
Baumorris to Frankston, and I thought, you know what, I'll
just have a going Yeah, And I remember I was
(13:14):
so scared at the beginning because you know, I thought,
why did I do this? You know, all the doubts
crept in my mind, but I guess I kind of
like got swept along.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And started the event.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
And conditions were great at the beginning, but they turned
at the halfway mark, and I was just petrified of
everything in the open water, like particularly things with teeth,
and I was like, so there were so many fears
and doubts that I had to overcome. But I had
a strategy. I was swimming in a pack, like I
just went help the leather and swam in the pack
(13:47):
because I just let if anything happened, So I believed
shark take someone else, and I could use my springing
ability to get back into the you know, get back
into the shore. So anyway work because once the condition
has changed, you know, people dropped off and I found
myself on my own, and my mind just went, you know,
(14:08):
in that moment of you know, looking down and I
saw a shadow and then I went full Spielberg.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
I've just learned about cookie cut of sharks.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yes, over in Hawaii, there's been quite a few. Actually, yeah,
I've been reading. There's been quite a few swimmers that
have been trying to swim the Molokai Channel, And yeah,
I think at certain times at dusk, yes, I know
it is serious.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I would be in the grips of a great white
then have a cookie cut of shark. Everybody, go and
google cookie cut of shark bite and just have a
look at what happens. Yes, little piranha look and things.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Well, maybe not because you may never get back in
the water again, like, yeah, I probably don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
But luckily, you know, it depends on where you swim obviously,
so you know, you've got to kind of weigh up things.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And that, you know what idea.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
I went nuts and I swam faster than me and
thought thinking that I'd seen a shark and of course
it was nothing, and.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
You know, as you do, and then of course, you
know reality, you.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Know, the heart rate came back down and I realized that,
you know, that fear, I could either you know, panic
and fall in a heap, or you know, you can
channel it, you know, And it actually gave me an
adrenaline rush, and I thought, you know, come on, you're
just being silly. You know, you're going to rationalizing and
ask yourself the right questions when you're in those situations
and say, okay, well look it was nothing. And quite
(15:35):
often we jump to conclusions, you know, so many times
in life, we you know, we panic about things that
are really quite minor and we just have to be
able to.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Sort of breathe, which is what I did.
Speaker 4 (15:46):
I just concentrated on my breathing, got my breathing back
under control, you know, worked on my bilateral breathing again,
you know, counting every three.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, let's come now, start thinking properly, ask.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
Yourself the right questions and realize, you know, hey, three
quarters of the way, nothing's going to get me. I'm fine,
just keep moving forward. So I did, and I ended
up actually winning that twenty case whom I came third overall,
and I was the first girl home, and the conditions
were horrendous at the end, like out of the twenty
eight people that started, only twenty one finished. So and
(16:21):
I just realized that I had this talent for endurance,
like the further the distance than the harder it was,
you know, I guess, you know, mentally, I.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Was just able to cope. And I kind of.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Bring that back to my parents, particularly my dad, because
growing up My parents both immigrated to Australia back in
the sixties. They came out on a boat from Holland
and my dad lived through the tail end of World
War Two and he was just a young boy at
the time. But he used to tell us stories all
the time, particularly you know about my grandfather who apparently
(16:54):
walked like over eighty kilometers to go and get the
family a loaf of bread through you know, Upied territory.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So I could have easily been killed.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
So many little stories like that, and he always is
to say, you'd be surprised what you can do, like
your mind can do in credit, like if you learn
to think properly, you know, and control your might, you
can do amazing things.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
And it always was something that he said.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
And also to be humble, to appreciate, you know, the
roof over our head and food on the table.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So I think having that as part.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Of my I guess, you know, feedback growing up hearing
those kind of stories all the time. Also you know,
channeled my thinking and so that that helped too. So
I think that's why I ended up in the endurance
side of things. Just yeah, genetically obviously that suited me.
But the mindset was there for that type of event
as well.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
I love that when when you first started kind of
talking about the open water compared to the pool, I
started picturing and feeling an alliance between how I felt
with boxing of this sense of I know. I felt like,
I know I'm not the best, and I'm not the
most talented, and I'm not necessary. I don't feel good
(18:08):
at this at all. But what I do know is,
however good I am, I know I can stay that
good through the hardest shit. I know I can endure
more for longer than you, not you, but everybody else.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
And that was.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
In the thick of the chaos, in the thick of
the punches and the hard it was like, that's cool,
I can deal with hard watch me. And that's how
I felt listening to you talk about the open water,
of like, Okay, I can do I can be this
good for as long as it takes.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Absolutely absolutely, and that you know, And that's a that's
a lot mindset that helps you through life because you know,
when you think about it, you know you don't have
to be fearless too. It's not about being fearless because
we all live with fear and doubts and you know,
question our ability or choices, and you know, wonder about
whether we can do things. But it's about taking that
(19:03):
next step forward and believing that you know, even they
can't see the finish line, trusting that you'll be able
to get there and stay the course more than anything else,
and taking those steps all the time. And that's you know,
really excise me something that I think you know as
being I just I am so grateful that I did
marathons in me because it's really helped me through life.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Because we all face challenges and big waves, whether.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
It in the boxing ring or in the you know,
in the ocean, that it happens in life too. So
the same mindset that you know we learn as athletes
really transpose us into real life and helps you get
through ordinary challenges as well.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah, one last swimming thing I want to ask you about,
because there's way, like I want you for about four
days on this. There's so much but that the best
like the only person to have ever swum the bast straight.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
That that water in Tasmania, Victoria. Yeah, which is treacherous.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Well, I mean it's terrible enough getting on, but I've
worked on the spirit of Tazzy Forrile, it was rough
enough doing that crossing and paid for it in a
cozy little boat. You're all crazy, But how does it
feel to know, Okay, I did that cool, cool cal
but no one else in the world has done it.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
I know, I'm waiting for somebody to do it, because
you know, those ones are put down so that somebody
else can do it, right, And I did this in
nineteen ninety six, So we're going on, you know, thirty
years next year.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I can't believe it because I.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Have reunions with my crew, and we did have a
twenty year reunion, so I think I need to pull
my finger out and start organizing the.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Thirty Yeah, we're all still around thinking, but it's yeah,
it's one of those conic Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Look, it was something you know, I was told it
was impossible when I was thinking about doing it, because
I didn't a lot of research and spoke to a
lot of experienced mariners and Sydney the Hoebart yacht races,
and I guess, you know, people project their I guess
their fears onto you, not out of wanting to stop you,
(21:12):
but I guess, you know, everybody has doubts about things.
So and when something hasn't been done before, you know,
they tend to be even more negative about it, so
I guess, and reasonably so, because you know, a boat
crossing can be done a lot faster than a swim crossing,
and it's it's a matter of, you know, do you
get the luck with the weather. That's that's the big question.
So not so much the distance, but it's just you know,
(21:34):
can you handle the conditions that are going to be
throwing it.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
So that was the big challenge.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
But my mindset was like, just because something hasn't been
done before doesn't mean it can't. So I moved forward
and I was able to have a wonderful support crew
around me, you know, to help me with logistics, and
you know, they all believed in the mission and they
believed in me, and I think, you know, without that support,
(22:00):
I wouldn't have been able to get that swim off
the ground because you know, you can't do anything on
your own.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
You really do need a village, you know, to lift
you up and pick you up.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Because there were so many times that you know, I'd
take two steps forward and one back. I struggled to
get sponsorship for the swim because nobody believed it was possible.
So you know, I had to have a shark cage mate.
And you know it's not like there's blueprints sitting around,
like you know.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
This is how you do it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
So we were really we're really adapting and creating new
things the whole way along, because again, there was no
training plan, so like, you know, how do you train
for something like that?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
How do you prepare your body?
Speaker 4 (22:40):
You know, I had to be ready to swim in
freezing waters for you know, I was thinking twenty to
twenty four hours, you know, worst case scenario. So yeah,
I was there weren't nutritionists around that could you know,
offer you advice on how to cope with hypothermia, So I.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Mean, you know, I knew you had a For instance,
I was trying.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
To put on weight because that's quite often what you
have to do to survive a swim in freezing water.
You need to have the body fat to be able
to cope so that you know, you don't get pulled
out with hypothermia. So I was eating a lot of
carbs and you know rice passaes at the beginning, but
my training I was swimming. I'm going to say six
(23:23):
hours a day, three in the morning, three in the afternoon.
So I was summing twenty sometimes twenty five k's a day,
six days a week, going to the gym about three times.
So I had pt and you know, strengthening the upper
body to be able to punch through the waves. And
you know, I was doing a little bit of cross
training as well, so I was probably having a forty
(23:43):
hour week of swimming and just you know, keeping myself fit,
so eating enough to maintain.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
How many calories was that?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Oh, goday, God, I wouldn't even know.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
I wouldn't even know how to calculate it, because it
was just yeah, if you think about it.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Like.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So to not only not only fuel that, but then
to put on additional weight.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Correct, correct, Like you know, he asked me to put
on weight when I'm not training, not a drum FA's
with the dilemma of training that much and fueling just
to keep up with what you're doing, let alone trying
to you know, have additional weight.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I was aiming to put on twelve kilos that
was the goal. And so.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Traditional eating didn't work, so I reverted to eating cake, chocolate,
you know, maccas KFC, you know, all the high fat
foods as well as the carbs, and it was literally
like a full time job trying to eat. So if
I wasn't sleeping or assuming I was eating, I had
doggie bags in the car with Mars bars and all
(24:48):
sorts of things. So I was desperately trying to put
on this weight because I knew the swim depended on it.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Like, you know, I laugh about it that.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
You know, my brother was actually pulled out of the
English Channel with hypothermia four kilometers away from the coast
of France and he stopped breathing and he had.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
To be resuscitated. So it's a very serious.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Factor that you have to deal with when you're in
open water, and especially very cold open water. So I
did manage to finally put on the weight and probably
helped that I started from King Island because the dairy
was eating all the cheeses and the cream and but yeah,
(25:30):
so there were so many factors to consider and so many,
you know, so many different things.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
But my crew were just incredible.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
And yeah, so we got we got over to King
Island and we actually had to wait for seven days
befo I got a window to swim because there was
one hundred not winds blowing all around the che kilometers
an hour.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Oh wow. Yeah. You literally had to lean forward to
walk down the street. It was that it was that bad.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And were you like, is this a sign to you?
Speaker 4 (26:01):
While I was looking out towards Victoria and obviously, you know,
most days you couldn't see it, and you know, and
there's these waves that are as tall as you know,
small buildings basically, and so again, you know, you have
to keep your mindset positive and you have to believe
in yourself and believe that you're going to get the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
To do it.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
And I had to wait seven days, but finally I
got a little teeny tiny window and it wasn't perfect,
but conditions sort of settled a little bit, and like
many things, that's you know, having the courage to start.
It was the hardest part, probably standing on the shore
and going right, this is it got to go. And
I'm very lucky that I've had Dawn Fraser in my
(26:46):
support crew as well. She's been my mentor for many,
many years. And so Dawn was over on King Island
and on my boat for the swim, and she kind
of gave me a little whisper in the air. I
think she can see, you know, the fear and the
doubt excise me bubbling away inside me, and she kind
of said, you've got this done, all the training, Let's
do it. And so off I went and swam out
(27:08):
to my support boat anchored about a couple of kilometers away,
and climbed on board the shark cage and off we
went and a venture.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Of a light tim. I tell you the probably some of.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
The toughest eighteen hours that I've never had to go
through in my life, because, you know, we the swells
were incredible. We had three to four meter swells most
of the way. And my fisherman said to me, he
worked out in the Straits for thirty years in fishing scollops,
and he said to me, you're so lucky that it.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Is so calm. And that was three to four meter swells.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
So it was a battle for me being in the
shark cage because I was smashed around from side to side, and.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I really how big is a shark cage.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Shark cage was five meters wide, seven meters long, two
meters deep, so you could park two small in it,
like the size of a small garage.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, right, big, big on land.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Were there sharks out there? Did you see them?
Speaker 4 (28:07):
I did not, so it was very lucky. Didn't see anything,
thank goodness. Not not on that particular swim anyway, so
we were fortunate. So yeah, yeah, I felt protected in
the cage as well.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I had it made out of amply missed security or materials.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
I saw an ad for Valerie Taylor, the diver, and
she used to dive with sharks all the time and
her cages were always made out of the amply missed
security dormitories.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I thought, you know what, it's good enough for Belve,
good enough for me.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
But of course there was never any footage back in
those days like you see on YouTube now with.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
The sharks jumping. I could have been in massive trouble
if I had one that jumped.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Oh god.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But anyway, we were worried about that. I'm here and
I've got all my limbs intact.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Eighteen hours. I was going to ask how long it
took souse.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
I wasn't aware, and yeah, seventeen hours and forty six
minutes it took me to go from King Island to
a Holidays. So yeah, it was a long journey. And
probably the hardest part. I started at quarter to six
in the evening because that's sort of when we just
got this window break. And to be honest with you,
(29:21):
I didn't really have that many more options anyway, because
I only had enough money to last for seven days,
like to be able to house the crew, and you know,
because they'd all taken time off work, they were all volunteers.
So you know, it was an incredible just so incredible
when I think back that we just got this chance.
On the seventh day, could in the evening and we
(29:43):
headed off, and like I said, it was pretty eerie
swimming in the night as well. So swimming in the
dark is fairly is a whole other mindset because you
really are isolated. You can't see your support crew as well,
you can't read messages on the whiteboard.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You know, it's a quiet time. It's just hard.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
You're very much in your own mind trying to negotiate
all the time, really because the body, you know, starts
telling you that I want to give up, as you
would know, and it's about negotiating for it to go
that little bit further. You know, hey, come on, hold on,
you can keep going. So I managed to get through
the night. By the time the sun rose, I was
(30:26):
pretty shattered, and to be honest with you, my crew
were actually preparing to extract me. They thought I wasn't
going to make it. I was so down and out,
like I really, you know, I ended up. I was
crying in my goggles. I was so broken. I literally
had just survived the night. And then I had a
(30:46):
like a swarm of jellyfish invaded the cage, and the
tentacles stung me on the face and they got me
on the lips and inside my mouth, and it was
kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back
because I was so cold, I was so tired, was
exhausted from just surviving the swells, and things had just calmed,
and then, you know, I thought I had a little reprieve,
(31:07):
and then the jellyfish came, and so I just.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I just started crying.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
My gog was I kind of had a bit of
a funny moment where I laughed to myself and thought, yet, great,
more salt water, because my tears were salt, and I
was just salt.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Order had permeated everywhere.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
And so I had my throat and tongue was swollen
up from the salt water. So I was struggling to
take down sustenance. My stomach was churning because again I'd
ingested salt order during the night. I had welts under
my arms because saltiers very embracing, and so from the
repetition of the arms turning over, I had massive welts
(31:42):
under my arms. That just that, you know, the pain
that seared every time I took another strike, just you know,
another reminder of you know, the.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Bad shape that I was in. But the jellyfish just
really you know, with the icing on the cake.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
And so I remember, I actually and I know, and
as I said, I could see all the crew they looked.
I knew they were preparing. I knew what the process
was to get me out, and I knew they were preparing.
And I turned around to Dawn and I said, you know,
how long have I got? Like, what's the worst case scenario?
I was trying to prepare my mind to think, okay,
(32:19):
how much further I got to go? And so I
saw her go away and chat to the navigator, and
she came back and she said to me, look, worst
case scenario, you've got another six hours left, and to
be honest with you, it almost broke me hearing six
hours because I was finding it difficult to concentrate on
the next six minutes, let alone six hours. So I
really had to dig very very deep mentally and just
(32:44):
concentrate on one really, really small thing and just say, Okay,
it's six hours out of a whole life to do
something that no one else has done before and tolerate
a little bit of pain, So come on, let's get
back to the job.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
And I fell back.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Into a pattern that I practiced during my training when
I was really tired, and that was just counting my strokes.
So I'd count sort of up to twenty and then
start again, count up to twenty, start again, and my
goal was just to get to the next speed stop
because I was feeding every half an hour. So it
was literally, let's break this down to the smallest possible
thing that I can do in this moment, you know,
(33:23):
just to build a bit of momentum, because quite often
when you're broken, you just need something to get the
momentum back. And once you get your momentum, then you know,
your mind starts to come on board and you can
get to that next phase. So I was literally building
my momentum, and I think I was swimming for about
fifteen minutes, and then I started to hear this amazing
clicking noise under the water, and I saw the crew
(33:45):
all pointing to something in the distance, and I had
an idea of what it might be. But within a
couple of minutes, I had a pot of about thirty
world dolphins swimming all around my cage, all underneath me,
and the clarity of the water investrates such that I
could see literally you know them alls, you know, sort
of swimming around me.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
And they were so noisy.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
Literally for me, that was so noisy under the water,
and I was just like in seventh Heaven. And I
remember I turned around and I said, to doorn, you
know right, stop the boat. I want to get out
of the cage. I want to play with my dolphin
mates for just a.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Couple of minutes.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
And it was just one of those moments, you know,
when sometimes you just need to build your bucket, you know,
replended spirit. And even though I knew I was taking
time away and tides could change and things, this is
what I needed in that moment to you know, charge
my battery back up again. And so I climbed out
of the cage and I had the most incredible.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Experience with the dolphins. They were just so close to me.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
There were a couple of baby dolphins in the pot
and they were literally, like, you know, that close to me,
and I was so inquisitive, and you know, just watching
them and how they swam, you know, just made me
feel like pretty insignificant because they were just so graceful
moving through the water. But I kind of felt like
they were there for a purpose and a reason and
(35:11):
a kind of saying to me.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Come on, you can do this. So I was recharged.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
I jumped back in the cage and kind of it
was a real pivotal moment for me. And again my
thinking became very.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Steady at that point. But yeah, I'm going to make it.
Nothing's going to stop me now.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
So you know, the dolphins stayed with me for another
hour or so whilst I was in the cage, kind
of just shadowing and yeah, and as I said, I
finally made it to Apollo day and walked up the
beach and it was just the most incredible experience of
my life, really one of because you know, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Expect many people to be there.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
I just thought, like the rent a crowd, family would
be there and that's it. But there were like three
thousand people.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
On the beach because all the news.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
And started to sort of you know broadcast you know,
the radio station.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
She's going to make it. She's like, you know, she's close.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
So people were activated and they literally just drove down
to the finish to see me. And yes, it was
just amazing. But the best part was having seen my parents,
you know, because we had you know, I cried so
my mum, dad because you know, but your parents know
what you've been through, like not just for that particular thing,
but the years of effort and sacrifice that have gone
(36:28):
into you know, finishing that particular event or getting to
the end of your goals.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
So it was a very very special moment.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah, I love that so much. I was just, yeah,
so immersed in that when what I know and what
you know is when we do things like this in sport,
what we learn and we get to take out out
of the water, out of the ring, out of into
real life. Right, So we have these experiences and I
(37:00):
know that now you get to reflect back through hard
things and one you're already conditioned to a degree, you
know what it feels like. You know how to cope,
You've got all these tools. But what's different? What aren't
you prepared for when it's a hard that you don't
choose in comparison to a hard that you choose.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Oh, I got a perfect example of that.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
You know.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
Actually this coming week, I actually celebrate two years since
I had my last cancer treatment, because I was diagnosed
with breast cancer in twenty late twenty twenty three, and
that was an endurance event of zone and not of
my choosing, and it left me feeling very very vulnerable
(37:50):
and in fact also betrayed because I guess, you know,
my body has always done what I've told him to.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Do, and here it was, you know, with a.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Foreign thing inside, and all of a sudden I was
thrown into the deep end of a very very different sort.
So I felt very vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, just I.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Honestly didn't know how to react for a little bit
when I was first off. But then I guess, you know,
the mindset keep back in and it's just like a
marathon swim, you know, you just have to transpose the
lessons over and say, well, you know, you can't always
see the finish line.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
But you've got to.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Trust in the process and trust in that you have
the strength to keep going and reflect on Okay, well,
you've done lots of hard things, so now it's time
to do another hard thing. But it's just going to
be different. And although there were so many moments of
darkness and doubt, you know, you wonder, you know, how
(38:48):
am I going to come out of this on the
other end? Am I going to make it through to
the other end? How am I going to survive? What
is it going to look like? You know, so much uncertainty,
And although there were moments of darkness, there were also
lots of moments of light and I think, you know,
part of what we do is trying to find those
rays of sunshine and have people around you that bring
(39:09):
those rays of sunshine as well, so you know, through it,
you know, although it was really difficult going through chema
and going through surgery, you know, there were beautiful people
always around me. Like you know, you have a laugh
with the nest and you know, joke about something. When
I remember when I first started chema, I chose an
option where you wear this cold cap and it literally
(39:31):
is supposed to help retain your hair. That's what they say.
It takes an extra hour you have.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
To sit there. Excuse me, and.
Speaker 4 (39:38):
The irony of it. It looks like a swimming cap,
like you just puts really really cold water into into
the cap and it literally cools your head right down.
And they said to me, oh, look, they didn't know
why I was a swimmer anything about what it done.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
So there.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
The oncology would sat me listen it. You know, it's
pretty tough. Like a lot of people just can't can't
sit there for that long because it gets so cold.
Your head gets really cold, and you know, if you
need the dolls and stuff like, you know, we'll understand
if you can't get through. So I'm sitting there and
I've got the cap im in there pumping it through
and I'm like and they go, how are you? And
(40:18):
I'm like, is this as cold as it gets? And
they were like, you know, like it was quite funny.
So you know, so there moments where I just laughed
and thought, see, you know, things that you do sometimes
help you for something else.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
The on shod and be like, hey, oh look I.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Tell you, but I think I tell you what I
wasn't prepared for though. It was like after my second
chemote session, I actually woke up one morning and I
had just clamps of hair on my pillow and it just,
you know, started to come out. And I know it
seems really stupid, but I was just a mess. Like
losing my hair was just like I don't know why,
but it just made me feel, I don't know, so sad,
(41:05):
so upset. And maybe maybe it's because up to that point,
like I could do normal things and no one would
actually know really that I was sick, Like you know,
there wasn't any outward signs, and now I was losing
my hair, and so you know, there was something that
about that made me more vulnerable for people to kind
of see what I was going through. And I remember,
(41:27):
like I was just like I said, I cried, and
I remember my daughter said to me, hey, Mum, do
you want me to shave it for you? And I thought,
oh god, she's a sweetheart, Like honestly, that's exactly what
I needed. We've got the clippers out, we shaved my head,
and it brought back that feeling of control because now
(41:48):
you know, I.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Was in charge of what was happening. It wasn't just
happening to me.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
I had some sense of Okay, now I'm going to
dictate what happens.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
And I felt so much better about it.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
And again my spirits picked up and it ended up
all falling out. But you know, I was okay with
that because I was already really short, and I discovered
so many wonderful things, Like I was still trying to swim,
so I was getting to the pool. I was only
doing a couple of ka's, but I was able to
swim without a cap for the first time and feel
the water over my.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Head, and I was stream wise, and I got out
at the end.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
You know, I didn't have to spend ages in the shower,
saving money on shampoo and conditioner, and mate, I used
to spend so much time straightening my hair, and you
know it, I was getting ready so fast.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
It was just unbelievable. So there were lots of perks,
and I think we've always got to look for those perks, you.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Know, I've got to look for those little tiny moments
of goodness that you find, those little rainbows, and they're everywhere,
but you just have to look for them. Even in
the darker spots you can find them. But it's just
having the mindset and the attitude to go. Do you know,
I don't have to sit in this this space where
I'm really like, it's okay to be there, and we
all do it, so there's nothing wrong with it. But
(43:04):
you know, it's about processing it and going like I've
been here long enough. Now I have to find a
way to lift myself back out again. So cancer really
taught me that in a different way. But I just
got to use the lessons, I guess in a different environment.
And as I said, yeah, I wouldn't have gotten through again.
Just like my swims where I had the all the
(43:24):
crew on the support boat cheering me on and feeding
me and encouraging me and being there for me and
keeping me safe.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I had that through my cancer journey to and again.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Just beautiful moments where people I hadn't seen for years
turned up at my doorstep and they cook food, you
know when I was going through chemo. You know, calls
and friends that offered to take my daughter to school.
Just the most beautiful things, you know, people offering to
help and come around and mow the lawns and do
things for you, and it's actually to you. It is
(43:58):
just the most beautiful feeling to know that you're surrounded
by such wonderful people, that people people are genuinely really good.
And I know we often get into that thought process.
We hear about lots of bad stuff going on, and
we kind of think humanity is going down the tubes.
But people are inherently good and when they see somebody
(44:18):
else needing help, they do step in. And that's been
my experience, and that's probably been one of the most
beautiful parts of going through cancer and understanding how many
people are around me that you know that will help
and you know that I'm part of this big community.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Was it ever, what was the experience like of when
you did lose your hair and you're stepping out into
just into the world.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Going shopping, going down a wall.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
So we have this, we have an identity, and we
have a sense of self and we and we have
I don't know this just way of being. But when
people people project onto you, So they're going to look
at this person no straight away that they're sick, there's
going to be they're going to feel sympathy, and they're
going to feel empathy, and they're going to be awkward
(45:10):
and they're going to pretend to ignore it, or they're
going to ask questions like what, how do you hold
yourself in the middle of that.
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Yeah, and again this was like a really massive learning
journey for me because you know, going out, I wore
I wore a hat. I didn't have like a lot
of people get the wigs with the fake care so
that you know, you can get these amazing things now
that you can get a hat and has a little
bit of hair hanging out the back and.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
You know, so you wouldn't even know.
Speaker 4 (45:37):
There was lots of options like that, and lots of
people choose that, And I understand why, because you know,
when you're sick and you're not feeling well and you're
going through all of this, it is it is hard
to also, you know, keep yourself mentally strong as well.
But I just found I started wearing a hat and
most of the time I really just thought, you know what,
(45:58):
I don't care what other people pople think, like, I
just sort of went and did my shopping, you know,
went out to the world. I think maybe something that
had helped me is i'd done an improv course not
before I was diagnosed, and one of the exercises is
necessarily funny. We actually had to go to the supermarket
and put a bunch of bananas on a head and
(46:21):
walk around the supermarket with a bunch of bananas on
a head, like do our shopping with and see what
the reaction was from people. Because the whole premise was
is that you think people are looking at you and noticing.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
And really they don't care like you have.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
You know, we all think, oh my god, everybody's going
to judge me, and that the real reality is is
that most people are so busy doing their own things
that they don't even notice. And I walked around with
a bunch of bananas on my head for about five minutes,
like all around the supermarket down the earth, and I
got new comments and one elderly lady said to me,
I'm like your.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Hat, and that was We had a laugh, you know,
and that was really about it. And I was so
surprised that nobody really even noticed. So going, you know,
going without my head.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
To the supermarket, I just you know, if they noticed,
great they come up and say something, well, you know,
I was more than prepared to sort of talk. But
mostly I found that people might have known obviously they
knew I was going through something and they were nice,
you know, they were just super nice.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
They offered help.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
Like you know, I had people offered to carry my
bags to the car that you know would never normally happen.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
So again you can be offended by that, but you.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Know, I choose to see the good and think, isn't
it lovely that people want help? And again, I guess
it just comes down to your attitude and how confident
you are in your own skin about those things. And
it is a learning process. Really, you have to come
to adapt. And I think, you know, that's the most
brilliant thing about us is that we're so adaptable. Really,
(47:58):
life is about adaptable, you know, adapting to different situations
and just changing your perspective and understanding how other people perceive,
but also thinking and understanding that sometimes you overthink things
as well. So it's it's incredible, really we've got this
mindset that is a superpower computer and doesn't come with
(48:20):
the manual, and we're constantly learning how to adjust and
what our limitations are and what expectations are of us,
and how we can find our own happiness and navigate
challenges and keep going, you know, get that fulfillment and happiness.
So yeah, it was an interesting interesting to go through
the experience as well. Like you know, obviously I wouldn't
(48:42):
wish it on anyone. I think I'd rather be in
the water facing sharks than waiting for a biopsy result.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Ever, again because again it's the uncertainty.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
I think that's the that's the killer with that. It's
just the uncertainty of not knowing. And it still goes
on now because I have to go I'm clear, but
you know, every sort of you know, six to twelve months,
I go for different kinds of tests and you get
checked and so you know, it really brings up what
I call the scan anxiety, you know, waiting and seeing well,
(49:15):
what if it's back, you know, what am I dealing with?
Speaker 2 (49:19):
And the new.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
Challenges of being on medication because I'm on tablets for
the next seven years that really really have.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
I find that difficult too. That make my joints ache.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
I feel like I've aged about fifteen years, and physical
things that I used to be able to do really
easily now a lot harder.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
And I have to again, you know.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
Rethink what I can do and be adaptable and just
go okay, well I can't do that, but I can
do this and try and manage a bit better. So
it's all, yeah, all that perspective.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Yeah, do things like this change you at the very
core or do you tend to bounce back as the
same a version of the same person. Person.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
I don't think you can ever bounce back as the
same I think you've lanned, You've gone through a really
deep personal experience that's changed to the very core, and
I think change for the good, to be honest, because
I have so much more empathy as well, you know,
see things in a different light. And it's that old
(50:24):
story is like, if you've never been through an experience,
it's really hard for you to relate. And I think
when you go through an experience, you can relate better
to others, and so it just it makes you a
better person, I think, and changes your views if you
take it that way, obviously, but you know, I think
it really does help you understand the struggles that people
(50:45):
go through.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
And yeah, even for me sitting in the Youngcology ward
and getting your chemo treatment, I was looking around and
you know, there were really young women in there with
young kids, and it's a whole other situation, you know,
if you're you've got a young family, and I thought.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
To myself, I'm so lucky.
Speaker 4 (51:03):
You know, my daughter's in their teenage years and I've
finished obviously with family. But you know, that would be
a whole other challenge. And I just thought, how how
hard struggling in that position. So you can find things
to be grateful for as well, And I think there's
always somebody that's going through life and doing it a
bit tougher than you. But you've just got to again,
(51:27):
you know, be in that frame of mind to be
grateful and think about the blessings that you do have.
And a lot of the times, don't we get caught
in our own.
Speaker 2 (51:37):
Situations, And you know it's easy to do.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
I do it too, like you know, I'm guilty of
it as well, but you know, I try and bring
myself back and I think going through the whole cancer
experiences help me do that, you know, and see things
from different perspectives again and just have more empathy for
people that are struggling or you know, there's a story
going on you might.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
Not know again, you know, you might see them with
the hair the supermarket, but you don't know that they're
going through chemo treatment.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
So sometimes we see visuals of what people are going
through and other times we don't. We have no idea,
We have no idea what they're struggling through. So it's
about being kind even though someone might not be kind
to you on a certain day. But again, you don't
know what's led to that point. So I always try
and keep that in my mind.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
Yeah, it's an easy balance, or how do you how
do you balance that idea of how to how to
do all the positive stuff, how to be how to
be present, be grateful, know that were that everyone goes
through hardship, but also honor the pain and the self,
(52:40):
you know, the self stuff, self compassion, allow yourself to
feel it.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
It's it's you. Look, you know. I wish I could
say he's the manual, here's how you do it. And
like I said, enough, I want a refund.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
And you know what I'm I learn all the time,
and I think life is just a learning journey and
every day we learn and sometimes we don't get it right,
but then we try.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
And I think it's all about the trying, you know.
Speaker 4 (53:13):
That's really the important part is having that mentality where
you go, oh yeah, well I didn't really behave well yesterday,
or I've been in a rut for a while, but
I need to pick myself up and get going again
and learn. You know, this is what I love about
this day and ages. With technology now, we can learn
so much. We can hear from so many people, we
(53:35):
can be inspired by so many others, And I think
it's all about keeping your finger on the big wide
world and learning, you know, because I think through listening
to others' journeys and being open to reading. I love reading,
you know, just any kind of knowledge, I think keeps
that mind again, it keeps you adaptable because it's giving
(53:57):
you different perspectives and different opinions. It's a balance of
trying to just keep that learning journey going and the
awareness of knowing, Okay, I'm sitting in this space and
it's not good and it's not good for me. So
that's really for me. When I get in the negative space,
(54:18):
you know, might not sleep because I'm ruminating on something.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Next morning.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
I can't do this because it's detrimental to me. I
need to be in a better space for me. I
need to be a better mum, you know. I can't
be fully present for my daughter. If I'm tired, and
you know, then I get cranky. So it's like understanding
how to balance your mind and your body as well.
And yeah, it's tricky though, it's not easy. Like I said,
(54:44):
it's just one of those things that I just intentionally
try and learn. And I know that if I'm in
a bad space, I just try and think, Okay, tomorrow,
Tomorrow we're going to do something different, going to go
for a walk in the morning, going to pay attention
to everything going on, all the beds in the trees.
And one thing that really picks me up is my dog.
He's like, you know, I love the unconditional love of pets.
(55:05):
I think you know when you go whether you go
away for five minutes or you're away for an hour
and you come back home and they're just waiting for
you and they're just full of love and they just
it's something that's so grounding and that really helps me
a lot. And actually my dog Jasper really helped me
through a lot of the cancer treatment too, because he
just sit with me and sit.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
On my lapping. It was like he knew something was wrong.
And even sleep on the bed beside me is just
a lot more calm during that period. So yeah, little
things like that.
Speaker 3 (55:37):
I know, dogs know everything.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
They do, dogs do.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
I say, my dog's my guru.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Dogs are the guru.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
There are a little there are a little four.
Speaker 4 (55:49):
Legged fairy gurus, aren't they aren't they They just got
that sense about them. They just you know, I don't
know what it is. I felt like the dolphins had
that too when I was I was fascinated. It's like,
you know, it's funny you think they know, they know.
If we believe that, then it does the right thing
for us, right, So yeah, honestly, again, it's your perspective
(56:13):
and taking a positive.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
Look on things and going.
Speaker 4 (56:16):
Yep, they got me, and then you know you're able
to lift yourself and get out of bed. And that's
all you need is that first lega Really, it's the
hard things. The hardest part about the hard things is
finding the momentum to get going, just building that first step. So,
you know, one stroke at a time has always been
my motto and always think back to, you know, the
(56:37):
hard times is that, you know, taking that one stroke
and getting to the next moment and then get into
the next moment.
Speaker 3 (56:44):
So yeah, good listening forever, forever, just switch off my mic,
keep my earphones in and just listen to you. Keep talking.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
We'll wrap it up there.
Speaker 3 (56:59):
But I am going to be tugging at your sleeve
because there's so much more in your world that I'd
love to talk about, and I just want to keep
listening to you, so I'll be I'll be hassling you
and my listener.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
You don't have to hassle. I'll be on anytime you
know that.
Speaker 3 (57:18):
You would you like to direct the listeners to where
they can find you, follow you and get in touch.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
Yeah, sure if they want you.
Speaker 4 (57:27):
I'm on Instagram and it's just my just my name,
Tammy Van, with the same with the If you want
to check out my website or you know, book me
for a speaking engagement. Again, it's just Tammy Van WISA
dot com. So I've got a pretty unusual surname. You'll
find me just typing crazy, marathon swimmer and Tammy.
Speaker 3 (57:47):
There's only one.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
That's that's it.
Speaker 3 (57:52):
I'll have your I'll have the website in the show notes.
So thank you so much. I'm glad our pards Christ
and I'm glad that it wasn't in the water, because
I would be sinking at the bottom.
Speaker 2 (58:02):
But in the boxing ring for me, that could have
been really that could have ended badly too.
Speaker 3 (58:08):
On try Land and out of the boxing ring we
can be besties. Thank you so much, Tammy, and thanks everyone.
Speaker 1 (58:19):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
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