The Art of Bombing and Getting Better Anyway | Bobby Cappuccio - 927

This one was a full-tilt, no-agenda, off-the-cuff joyride. Bobby and I kicked things off talking about breakfast and concussions, and before we knew it, we were deep in the world of comedy - what makes it brilliant, what makes it brutal, and why it hits different for all of us. We riffed on our favorite comics, from Andy Kaufman to Ricky Gervais to Hannah Gadsby, and unpacked the guts and grind it takes to get on stage and try to make people laugh (some skills and lessons that are transferrable to most of our lives). Bobby shared what it was like doing open mic nights with zero prep, how speaking lost its magic for him in 2024, and how he's finding his way back. I opened up about bombing (or thinking I was) during podcasts and in the ring, and we both explored that tricky line between perception and reality when you're putting yourself out there. There's a heap in here about performance, resilience, and the weird art of being real... whether you're on stage, in a boxing ring, or just figuring out how to be seen.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
I got fighting in my blood.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
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Speaker 1 (00:51):
Oh my god, I have no plan today. I just
showed up talking about breakfast and concussions over brackins.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Great. I love no plans.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
Are we live?

Speaker 3 (01:02):
I'm recording? Do you want to be live? Do you
want to be live already?

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I don't know. I don't know, I don't know if,
I don't know if I'm ready to be live.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
The audience peak behind the curtain of what the hell
happens before we hit the big red button every time.
I'm just going to put this. This is the start
this is your official introduction. Hey, Bobby, welcome here.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Hi, how are you. I'm okay, I'm all right. God
that introduction was like, I felt like I was channeling
Andy Kaufman. Doesn't even know who Andy Kauffman is really

(01:48):
so Andy Kaufman, he was just a brilliant comedian, but
he didn't consider him a self comedian, consider himself an entertainer.
He probably did one of the best Elvis impersonations ever.
He was Elvis's face for Elvis impersonator. But he was
on Saturday Night Live and he used to just did
you ever hear of a sitcom in the United States
called Taxi It?

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yes, yes, I have heard of it.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
So the foreign guy Lotga was Andy Kaufman. I think
Andy Kaufman was a genius. He used to just bomb
on stage by doing the weirdest stuff, and some people
consider himself indulgent. Other people considered him genius. I've fallen
into that he was a genius category. Jim Carrey actually

(02:33):
played Andy Kaufman in a movie, which I think it's
very hard to capture Andy Kaufman. But if you're gonna
like cast somebody to do that, Jim Carrey is definitely
the cast.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
Who is your favorite comedians and why?

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Oh you know, it's so wow, it's so hard. I
think let's start off with Eddie is Hard for his
ability to create observational and historical narrative into this bumbling,
but witty and deeply insightful presentation. I think Dave Chappelle

(03:15):
for his incredibly deep social commentary and layers of sensitivity
disguised as complete insensitivity, but you could tell that guy
is a very deep thinker and feel or funny story
with Dave Chappelle, my wife got into an argument with
him in a comedy club one night over Nigerian geography. Yeah,

(03:39):
I don't know, maybe a story for another day. I
love Jim Carr for his Jimmy Carr for his delivery,
his timing, and his ability to think on his feet.
And I don't know if he really thinks on his
feet like that or he's just established so many patterns
from incredible preparation, so somebody could say something off the cuff,

(04:02):
like when he invites the audience to heckle him and
you can tell he's having a really great time and
he's just brilliant and ruthless and hilarious. That could be
thinking on your feet. I think what it more likely
is is tens of thousands of hours of preparation. So
he just has a pattern. There's just like barely anything

(04:23):
you can say that he's not prepared for, even if
he has no way to prepare for that exact heckle.
So Michael McIntyre. Michael McIntyre for his one his physical
comedy and his observational comedy is just amplified. It's hilarious

(04:47):
and it's just it's light like he can make light
of the simplest day to day thing. I just I
love Michael McIntyre. He makes me happy listen to him.
There's plenty of other people in that category, some of
who I probably should not mention. I like from your Country,

(05:07):
Jim Jefferies. I think he's an outright legend. I just
love his delivery as well. So there's quite a few
of them. What about you? Who are some of your
favorite comedians and why.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
I love Jimmy Carr and I think I've talked about
it before with you. I used to I couldn't stand
him before, and I'd given him no chance what's over.
But I couldn't stand because.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
He didn't pay his taxes. Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
Love Ricky Gervais. I love, love, love Eliza Schlesinger. I
think you say her last name like that. I saw
her when she was out here in Australia. I've watched
her endlessly online and that was such a brilliant show,
such a brilliant show. But I feel like I've gotten

(05:54):
I've gotten into comedy a lot more the last couple
of years, and I feel comedy for me has shifted.
And I don't know if it's just a me thing.
It's just I listen differently or who I'm listening to
or how I listen, or I don't know if it's
because of my relationship with speaking and creating ideas and

(06:18):
starting to drill down in that that I'm also seeing
and learning patterns that align with comedy. And I don't know,
something has really shifted for me. So it interests me
how our relationship with our humor changes based on who
we are, what we know, what we But we think
it's just this simple, Oh someone's funny or they're not.

Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Is it comedy that's changed or is it us that's changing?
I mean, yeah, like I'm just becoming old. So I
can't get the jokes because I'm not quick enough anymore.
So I'll watch a comedy show like that was shit,
and then three days later I'm just I can't stop laughing.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
But sometimes it's like, sometimes there's an element of absolute
magic that that can't come from just the structure. It
has to come from the hours and hours they put
in on the ground, so that their ability to connect
and create an energy with an audience meets the thing

(07:19):
that comes out of their mouth and the timing and
the thing. I think it's phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Oh my goodness, that is why. And first of all,
I cannot believe I did not mention Ricky Gervais for
so many reasons. The man is just a genius, not
just on stage but off stage. The things he's produced
are just legendary. Life after Death was probably one of

(07:45):
the most poignant and layered the best things. Oh the
after life, I'm sorry, life after death, the after life anyway. See,
this is this is why I don't get comedy. It's
just my brain is just like it's just I don't
sit there watching comedy.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
Yes, so.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, I think it was one of the best things
I have ever seen in my life. And I've seen
some really good stuff, So I so honorable mention definitely
Ricky Gervais. But your point there is why you'll never
catch me criticizing a comedian, Like there are some people
I'm just like, Okay, I don't Stephen Wright. I think

(08:28):
Stephen Wright, he's been around for a really long time.
When it comes to dead pan, one line delivery, a
lot of people have like imitated him, imitation some serious
form of flattery. Some people think stalking is, but I
don't think that's correct. But I I'll never criticize a

(08:50):
comedian even if it's like, Okay, you know, just him
or I just don't resonate with them. For me, But
if somebody, if you're watching a Netflix or you're watching
a YouTube show or they're on TV, you are looking
at an unimaginable level of preparation, outright failure. They have

(09:16):
completely died on stage epically so many times. A lot
of them still do. So where my wife got into
an argument with Dave Chappelle, which was mortifying for me
because it's like I wasn't what was mortifying for hers.
I was not on her side like Dave Chappelle's up

(09:37):
on stage. I was like, do not embarrass me in
front of Dave Chappelle. Right. So, this particular comedy club
is where a lot of a lot of a listers
would just rock up and they would test out new material.
So they're coming, oh, can I get on stage? Or
what do you GUNA say? No? Right, so, and they

(10:01):
would try this material and so much of it is
just horrible because they just wrote the joke like three
days ago and they haven't practiced it. And it's like,
you're watching this. It's like a year from now. This
is going to have people in bits on their next special,
but it's going.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
To be so much work that they.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Put in, not just memorizing the jokes, but the timing,
the delivery, the tweaking. Oh well that joke kind of worked,
but it didn't work like this. Let me try a different.
It's like what a lot of them are reading off
of paper. They're like looking checking out their jokes are there.
It's like wow. So I think to be a comedian,

(10:44):
to be somewhat of a successful comedian, that's extremely admirable.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
And you have to get really okay with being disliked
and being like you get criticized so much, so many
people it blows my mind when I look in the
comment section where people are just adamant to stacks on
to a comedian and be like, they're not even funny.

(11:12):
They're not even funny. It's like, dude, this person has
millions of followers and makes millions of dollars because they're funny.
But you, as one person who's obviously taken offense of
some sort, I think that everyone cares what you think.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, do a five minute open makenate and then get
back with your criticism and commentary. But that's when everything,
especially with comedy. Bill Burr is another one who over
the years, I've become a massive fan of massive fan
of his comedy and just just the place where it's

(11:50):
coming from. And I don't care they some people are
going to resonate with that. Some people are gonna hate
me for that, you know, like when you're saying, like
you got to get used to everybody dislays you and
just this vitriol and criticism, and it's like, yeah, it's horrid,
and it wears on me sometimes to be fair, but
for the most part, I just know I have to
keep going in spite of how many people dislike me.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
So I can see have you seen Drew Lynch? Familiar
with him? I love him, I follow him, and he's
getting a huge following. And he I think that he
first started his career back on something like America's Got Talent.
He went on a talent show and he stutters. He
had a really bad stutter at the time, and now

(12:37):
he's overcome that, so he's brilliant on stage. But recently
he put up a reel where he was about to
go out for dinner with friends and he had this
enormous attack that was the most vulnerable. I watched it
probably three times and I sent it to people. It
was the most vulnerable. Honest, this is happening, and I
feel really embarrassed, and it's also kind of funny, and

(12:59):
I just want to show you you and this is
how I feel, and of goosebumps thinking about it. It
was so brave. But I love I love comedians that
can be really funny and then just really real.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
H I mean, I think to be a comedian, obviously
you have to be extremely focused, you have to be
extremely intelligent, but I think there's also a sensitivity there.
I think there's a strong emotional intelligence and I'm not
saying this is with all comedians obviously, but sometimes I

(13:32):
think there's a lot of trials and internal pain that
you're channeling through your comedy, and it's a way to
kind of connect to other people, you know. And then
and of course there's this, there's this like working out
your stuff in front of an audience by giving something
to them and getting some acceptance back from that audience.

(13:58):
So I think that there's so many layers, like comedians
are a special group of people for me personally, Oh god,
what was I think Britain's got Britain's got talent? Like
all those shows are amazing. I used to just oh,
my wife, you's just watch episode after episode. I'm like,

(14:19):
oh god, this is painful. But think about this for
a second. How many you'll resonate with this? How many
superbly talented people who are as gifted, hardworking, deserving as
any household name would have been a nobody just because

(14:40):
they did not have the vehicle, and then these shows
put them on stage and it's like the world can
see WHOA, this person's got something that's amazing, Like Britain
got talent moves me and Simon Cowell I think I
think Simon Cowell is a legend because you can tell

(15:01):
as much as he does not have any patience to
humor fools. On the other end of that, you can
tell how someone who is deeply invested in hardworking and
brings something real to an audience moves him emotionally. You
can see it. You know, he's not like a warm

(15:21):
and overtly fuzzy type of person. It's not like a
walking Hallmark card. You can see like how it makes
an impression on him. So I think, like so many
people have been brought into the world that we don't
even know about. I love those shows.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
I love Hannah Gadsby too. Have you seen her Hannah
and Douglas. Have you seen her shows on Netflix?

Speaker 1 (15:44):
No?

Speaker 3 (15:45):
No, godspy really no, Tazzy too. She's a tazzy. Oh
that's non binary the most But go and watch Hannah
on Netflix. It is brilliant, confronting. It is this comedy
show where they lead into this topic of trauma and

(16:08):
shit and it just silences the audience. But yeah, bloody
love that show and when and then their second one
called Douglas. At the beginning, they describe exact all the
components of the show and I love this right, it's
really clever. They're very clever. What they're going to talk about,
what we're going to go through, how they're going to

(16:30):
make it land, all of the little bits and pieces,
and then at the end, and that's exactly how it
plays out, and it's just bloody clever. Like I think
that I'm intrigued by how cleverly shows are put together
and how much thought it's not just and how it's
not always just humor. It's sometimes it's it's funny, you Like,

(16:51):
I find myself laughing just because I'm like recognizing that
they've done that.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, that's it. It's genius. I mean, I haven't seen
this particular performer. I haven't seen a lot of performers
you're mentioning. It makes me feel like I don't watch
Netflix enough.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Well, and Ursula Calson hilarious. She's hilarious. I saw her
at the comedy FESTIV want to see it recently. I
didn't used to know any comedians except for what's his name?
He's so funny. Cayle Baron. Tell me you know Cayle Baron.
He's the best. No treasure, I don't know him. Oh god,

(17:31):
I'm going to send yourself with him.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
I probably do. I've probably seen some of these people.
I just don't know their names because I do watch
a lot of comedy clips.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
You only did comedy once, didn't you. Did you do
a stage like comedy just a few times?

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, just a couple of open mic notes. Yeah, I
remember you were having a go at me like a
couple of podcasts ago. You were like, you could really
be funny if you've made the decision and worked at it.
It's like, okay, and I've been working at it, and
like people will been telling me, whoever told you, that's
definitely wrong. You're not getting any better at this, like
you should. If you could do literally anything else, just

(18:07):
I would try that, like maybe finger painting. So I'm
enrolled in a finger painting class now, thank you.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
We've talked before about knowing when to give up and
knowing when not to. I wonder what it's like for
for comedians, given how many aspects come into landing or
developing in a particular way. And then like, I just
think that the psychology behind understanding at the psychology, the

(18:37):
human behavior, the the interpersonal skills, the wit, the knowledge,
the depth of I think love for humanity and curiosity,
all of those things.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Oh my god, yes, so how.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
And then someone comes along Ago, no bro, not funny.
And and then someone walks away from something that they
probably on the cusp of being fucking brilliant at now.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
I don't know if that could be me. I think,
like going back to Andy Kaufman and less of course,
you know that there are certain people that are going
to resonate with you. So it's really weird watching Andy
Kaufman videos because I have turettes and so I repeat
things a lot. So he did this one skit where

(19:31):
there was a cartoon in the United States that was
very popular back in like the sixties and the seventies.
It was called Mighty Mouse. It was about this little
tiny mouse that had like powers very similar to Superman,
and so he would have a little mouse cape and
fly around and you know, he would just shout here,
I come to save the day, which is really arrogant, like,

(19:53):
if you're going to be a superhero, you're screaming that shit.
You would never hear Superman like like screaming that stuff.
So the Mouse was a bit of a twat. If
we're gonna be honest and Andy Kaufman used to do
this thing where he would lipsync but he didn't know
any of the words, and you would see him and
the skid is he's getting more and more nervous and

(20:15):
flustered because they know the words. But then every time
the chorus hits, he would put his arm up and sing,
here I come to save the day, and then he
would go back to being confused. And the timing it
was so genius. You would think that there's nothing funny
about that, but it was epic. But he would experiment

(20:36):
with things and when he bombed, it was funny, like
he would tell the worst jokes on stage, like you
know your friend who finds a joke so funny they're
laughing at their own joke and they can't continue, but
their delivery is atrocious, and you're laughing not because the
joke is funny, but because of how funny they find

(20:56):
their own joke. And they have no business telling jokes
to anybody, not even the best mates. He would he
would do that, knowing full well he can masterfully deliver it,
and he would even stop and go no, no, no, wait,
wait wait do you get it? Do you understand? And
just keep going. And it was just if you find

(21:18):
value in dying on stage, And like you said, curiosity,
I think curiosity key to life.

Speaker 4 (21:25):
But it's it's.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Got to be the key to doing any job, especially comedy.
Really well, like, what's what is funny about this? What
am I learning about this?

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Right?

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Like, like what's the audience's reaction going to be? If
you can find I think curiosity is the antidote to
the pain of rejection or an an antidote. Maybe not
the antidote, Like I don't know, Maybe the antidote is

(21:59):
like whiskey, but maybe a curiosity could be an ad
to do it. I don't know. I don't know what
I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
When you did when you did.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
I've got a concussion, I seriously do.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
When you did the comedy gigs, did you do them
for an interest in comedy or did you do them
for the for the secondary gains of developing a particular
skill set or testing yourself? What was the reason?

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Oh, at first they did it because the person who
told me to put my name down said you'll never
get cold. So Amy was going to go on the
road for like a few months. She was making a film.
So I wasn't going to see her regularly for months.
So we went to this comedy club in LA that
we just loved, and I was like, oh, okay, this

(22:52):
is a really good chance for me to put myself
out there and look really courageous in front of of
Amy at no risks to me personally. So he's like
this guy who I'm not going to mention his name,
who's a comedian. He's like, yeah, just put your name down.
To tell you the truth, there's a very little chance

(23:13):
you're gonna get called. Oh really, Oh okay, I'll put
my name down. I'll try this. And then like I
was one of the first people called and I was like, well,
what are you talking about? You said, I was, ah,
screw it. So I'm just gonna drink my chemet and
yeah that's Belgian ale by the way, and I'm just
gonna hang out and wait for my skit. And then

(23:35):
I tried to walk straight up on stage rather than
going through the green room. So the host hated me,
just hated me because I didn't know where to go,
what to do. I just like stumbled on stage. I
sat down on a stool. I did my first just
leaning on a stool and yeah, and then it was

(23:56):
really tough like I had been. I had delivered at
that point, like I don't know, easily over fifteen hundred
seminars of my.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
Life, and I thought, oh, I've got this.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
But when you don't have a context and now you
got to get up there and like people are expecting
you to be funny, that's difficult. So I didn't do
as bad as I thought I was going to do,
but I didn't realize it was that hards Oh this
is something I want to do. I want to do
this because this is a domain of public speaking and

(24:31):
entertainment that could probably make me better. So that happened after,
but at first it was just me putting my name down,
you know, just having a laugh.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
So you didn't have any You didn't do any specific
learning or training or preparation aside from obviously you're speaking.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
I told you I had a couple of chemets.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
How many people do you think that give those open
mind not to go how many going completely blonde like
that and wing it, and how many going having done
something that gives them a structure or some process to follow.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Well, I don't know, but my guess would be there's
two types of people that do open mic nights. Complete
idiots like me who are just having a laugh and
they're just like I know, they're out there with their
mates and say, oh, I'll go up and do this thing.
Maybe a third category people who actually think they're funny

(25:32):
and think that funny in the pub transfers to stage.
It doesn't. But I would imagine quite a lot of
people that go up are working comedians and they're just
looking to get as many reps as they possibly can,
test out as much material, and they probably have stuff
that they had written down and they're just trying to
practice it in front of a live audience. Yeah, So

(25:54):
I would imagine those are the three categories. I think
the biggest category is probably the latter, although well I
may be completely wrong. There may be a comedian out
there go on this sky doesn't always talking about please
right end. We want to know.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
When I was on my speaking at the conference last month,
the co host Martin, he did a little unannounced, unplanned
bit of a comedy skit in the middle of the
show and it was it was actually quite funny. It
was really he was really good. But he talked to
us about the benefit. He said, he did just a

(26:29):
weekend course and got some experience, and he said it
was just so beneficial for speaking. And it was really
funny because having done the learning around structure and structures
and processes and ideas and creating content that I have
over the last year or so, and especially since starting
the course I'm doing, it's shifted my race because any

(26:53):
other time we have had a chat about or anyone
has talked about getting up on stage to do comedy,
I was like, that is the bravest thing ever. Never
in a million million years would I ever do that.
But I sat in that conference and I was like
that I feel a bit of a pull to doing that,

(27:14):
and I'm like, what where did that come from? Like
that because it is terrified still terrifies me, but it's
not the outcome of getting on stage, because I know
there's so much underneath. It's like, it's the process, oh,
I for this relationship with the ability to prepare a
skit and make it happen. Like there's a lot of

(27:35):
different skills that get honed in outside of just standing
up to deliver it. There's all the preparation, Like we
did we did story Slam in Queensland. That was unannounced
until we got there and I won it, and what
was called is looking back and going Ah. There was
a lot of skill sets, so there was the ability

(27:56):
to be for that to be announced in the middle
of an event, the first World Becoming event, and we
had between ten pm and eight the next morning to enter,
so we had no time. I had to think of
a story, and then we had one hundred characters to
describe the title and the gist of the story that
everyone would be voting on, and the people that the

(28:17):
top six were going to be doing the story slam,
so you had to be really clever and concise in
creating a storyline out of one hundred characters. And then
we had three minutes. Yeah, so we had then, and
that didn't get announced until lunchtime the next day, so
we had to eight thirty. Between eight thirty and twelve,

(28:37):
everybody voted, and then at four pm, right before the
end of our workshopping and our day our conference, they
announced the six and then we met back for dinner
at six pm, so we had about two hours to
go and have a shower, get ready for dinner, and
have a bit of a plan for our three minutes

(28:58):
on stage. And it was brilliant to go through that
process because I learned a lot of well, I observed
a lot of things that I have over time been
able to develop skills around that allowed me to have
the capacity to practice the new things that were open
to me in this experience.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, it's like speaking, and it's a very it's a
very hard skill. Like something came up in a meeting
today where the MC of an event that I was doing,
he had said something about, you know, like putting the

(29:42):
work in and learning things, and somebody took that as
a personal attack, like he doesn't even know you, right,
And like someone in the meeting of the debrief somebody
brought up you know, people have no idea what it's
like for a speaker up there, Like if you say

(30:04):
one thing or you mispronounce a word, people will jump
on you about that, like have you ever done this?
Especially when you have people doing like all day workshops
or a couple of hours of a presentation, do you
have any idea? Like what goes into that stuff is
brutal And I'm not saying like you know, because you're

(30:24):
getting on stage, so obviously there needs to be an
expectation and delivery is critical and it needs to be
engaging just as much as it's informative. But I don't
think people who don't do that appreciate all the preparation
that goes into it.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
Do you are you still learning? In terms of speaking?
Are you still learning new stuff? Or are you still honing?
Do you I feel like you have covered all the
areas of learning open to you, and you're choosing parts
of those to focus on.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
That's an interesting question.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
TIF.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
I feel like I'm doing both. I feel like I'm
learning new stuff. But lately I've been finding it's really
important to go back and learn how to or relearn
how to hone the skills I've developed. Because I would
say that twenty twenty four was my worst year in

(31:32):
front of an audience.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Really why, Yeah, I'm just changed.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
I think the expectations about Okay, well, where's your power point?
We want to see a PowerPoint like everything that you say,
We want the bullets up there, we want That's not
how I speak. And I just if I bring up
a PowerPoint, there'll be an image, or if I if
there's a quote that I'll use, but I don't even
know what quotes I'm going to use and tell on there,

(31:59):
like how like for me to know everything I'm gonna say,
Am I really connecting with the audience? Like if you've
had enough preparation, and obviously in the first couple of
years doing this, that's a big ask, but you should
be able if the ad even if the audience isn't speaking,
they're still communicating. You should be able to take that communication,

(32:22):
make a decision on the fly and restructure your entire
presentation right there in a split second and have it
be cohesive. And I was over preparing, Like normally, if
I have any PowerPoint or all, it's an image or
video something that I cannot say. I think when people
are trying to read bullet points, as fun as that

(32:44):
is for them and listen to you, they're missing something
because there's context there and there is that emotive impact.
If I wanted to put everything I needed to talk
about on a PowerPoint, I would just send out a
PowerPoint presentation, do the reading and your own like you know,
leisure and just like why why rock up to the

(33:06):
actual session. So I was started doing a lot of
things where and there was also trying to meet everyone's
expectations about how they thought I should present or what
they weren't happy about even though they're not presenters. So
I was doing all this stuff that I've trained speakers

(33:28):
to never ever do, and it showed, you know, like
you get up there and you get oh that was
a that was a good presentation. Yeah, no, oh that
was very interesting. No, that's horrible. The subtitles there is
you wasted our time. If somebody gets up like, oh
that was interesting. Oh, I mean I learned something that
was good information, Like you should have sent an email.

(33:51):
You want to impact people on an emotional level when
you're speaking. It is about influence, and because the world
to influence has rubbed people the wrong way in the past,
what I mean by influence is the ability to positively
affect the character, development and behavior of someone or something

(34:15):
like a team or an organization. I got that definition
from the Encoded World English Dictionary, so it's legit. But
that's kind of like that's the game you're playing.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
I think, Yeah, yeah, I'm I see and hear speakers
differently now and probably a bit like a bit like comedy,
you know, that's changed for me. And now hearing and
seeing speakers is shifting, but I'm still very much in

(34:48):
the world of listening and learning and deciding and applying
and deciding what fits me and if it needs attention
and where it can improve me or where it where
it might not fit. But yeah, I mean very much.
I think like yourself and like Harps and a lot

(35:09):
of the people that I respect in speaking, I am
very off the cuff and very in tune with connecting
with the audience and going where we go together. But
in the middle of that learning about even kind of
the neuroscience of how people take on the information that

(35:31):
we present. So how am I presenting that? How much
am I presenting and expecting people to retain And are
they having a good time and having emotionally resonant moments
that also translate to things that stay with them once
I leave the room.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, I think every season speaker that I enjoy kind
of is in that space where I'm there to be
connected to people and they're not going to remember everything
I'm saying. The best you can do is to frame
things in a way where you spark people's curiosity. Yes,

(36:13):
there are takeaways and tools, I'm not discounting that at all,
but they'll remember how they felt and what's their level
of interest in a topic after you've spoken about it,
because nobody's like, oh wow, so how did you get
to where you got to in your career. I attended
a seminar one day and the information was amazing, and
ever since then, I've just been applying it for me.

(36:35):
Like one of the things I came up in the
meeting today is somebody wrote in an eval, oh wow.
I really like the references to these books because I
always want people to know what I'm saying right now,
like my stories are me some of them, and the
way I'm delivering is me, but the information's not me.
I didn't come up with any of this, And even
if I did come up with it and create a

(36:56):
model around it, it's because I probably heard it from
twenty different sources that I'm putting together here. Read this book,
read this study, and they're like, oh, we love that,
because now we can go after the session's over and
go explore what interests us about the topic. Like that's
the highest outcome I'm looking for is I now can

(37:17):
go out and pursue my own curiosity because they're not
going to remember ninety five percent of what it is
that I said. But if they go out and dedicate
themselves to a lifetime of learning for a subject matter
that has value to them, that's brilliant, Absolutely brilliant.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, I love that. What's what are your what are
things you're doing now?

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Like what related to oh, related to speaking? Yeah, like
you mean in front of an audience.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yeah, reflecting on your year at twenty twenty four and going, ah,
that's that's my that's my most recent year and my
worst year being in front of an audience. How did
you decide where to recalibrate and where to put your
attention in improving?

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Well? So I was realizing there's a couple of things.
I was realizing. One, you know, how you perform even
if people come up to you and like, oh my god,
I love that. That was the best thing ever they
call Oh you know, I didn't really like this, or
you could have done this better. You know, when you're
in the flow, and that's the best that you can
do if you're prepared in your delivery. And I just
got off some big stages and thought who.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
Was up there?

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Like I didn't show up for this today. There was
somebody up speaking, and you know, tell them stories and
relaying research and data, which is wow, that's exciting. I mean,
but I wasn't there. I didn't bring myself to this presentation.
And I can't imagine at if I wasn't up there,

(39:02):
this conference or this session would have suffered. They could
have put they could have put anybody good up there,
and it's like, if you're not adding unique value, what
are you doing? So I started noticing that, and I
also started noticing I didn't like being up there. Like
last Friday, I was working with an executive leadership team

(39:24):
for a college, and I love working with these groups
of people. And as I'm in the convention center, you know,
not a feeling when you're walking through the convention center,
and as you're walking through it, you're just picking up
more and more energy from everyone, like you're just expanding
and expanding, expanding. I'm walking towards the room, I'm like,

(39:46):
what's this room gonna look like?

Speaker 4 (39:48):
And I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
That is how I have been for ninety nine percent
of the presentations I've ever delivered, like I want to
be here, you know, even if it's like five people
in an office somewhere and they're like, oh, we're going
to bring in this speaker, so you know, whilst you're
eating your sandwiches, you can listen to this guy. I

(40:12):
want to be here, And I started realizing I don't
want to be here like I would want to be
doing anything else, like oh, getting up this early in
the morning, And I realized, what is happening to you?
So for a lot of different reasons, I was struggling
with burnout. So I was completely toast. I said, you know,

(40:33):
one of the things I need to do is get
back into my authentic speaking style because this whole scripting
out word for word and trying and going over it
and trying to remember it, this shit doesn't work for me, right,
I know it works like actors do that all the time.
I mean and by the time they deliver, though, like

(40:54):
they make that their own. So the script's only like
ten twenty. For me, it was like fifty percent of everything.
You're on the wrong path because you're stressed out and
you're not thinking properly and you're doing the same you're
making the same mistakes that a lot of people make.
So you need to reset. So I went to Rakovic
to reset. It's a great place to reset. Very cold

(41:16):
and came back. So, okay, let me try something not different,
let me go back to the way I'm used to presenting,
and it just it's been getting better and better.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
How do you know when your perception of your performance
is reality to the degree that you believe it is.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Well, I believe it is. I don't know if it's reality.
I'm sure I've gotten off the stage and been like, oh,
that that was a great delivery, and people are like, oh.

Speaker 4 (41:56):
My goodness, wow.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
You know it's like I I missed, I missed stranger
things for this, So I'm sure. I'm sure There's there's
been times so I've been off base, but that goes
the other way as well, more often the other way.
I was like, I don't think that was the best delivery,
and people like that was amazing. So I did a

(42:17):
presentation for a friend of mine many months like many
months ago, but damn well it was six months ago.
I thought, oh man, wow, that that did not land.
I really wanted to do a great job for him,
and I was like, oh, I could tell he was disappointed,
and you called me. He's like, my team is doing
better already. They loved it. They loved everything. You had

(42:38):
to say they used it. It worked immediately. I can't
thank you enough. I was like, oh, okay, so I
was off base there. So I think getting out of
your head. It doesn't matter. Here's the thing. It doesn't
matter how well you perform. What matters is how connected
are you to the audience and what's the state of

(43:00):
you bring into the room. I'm listening to the audience.
If I feel from the audience, I feel for myself
that I am flowing. I'm not forcing anything. I've done
enough preparation. I'm adapt I'm adaptable. It's the information's not
coming from me, it's flowing through me. I'm like an antenna.

(43:20):
That's when I know I've delivered. Now are there people
that are going to write, yeah, I didn't like this,
or oh I love that. Yeah, of course, Like I
did a session and I prepared thirty hours for one hour,
and people like, oh my god, that this person like
was so prepared, like so many layers, and somebody wrote

(43:40):
I thought the presenter was completely unprepared. Superficial answers that's
always going to be out there. You know, they're always
going to be in the audience, and you have to
if I get twenty percent of that, Okay, I need
to change something. If that's like a couple of people,
you're definitely going to get those. You should you shouldn't

(44:02):
take those seriously, and you shouldn't take be that was amazing.
That's presentation I've ever shouldn't take that seriously either. You know,
you know where you're at. How do you know? Because
you do a lot of speaking and you're you're you're
like really good at it. So what's your litmus test?

Speaker 3 (44:20):
This is why I ask because and more for me
in reference of podcasts, because because I do these so frequently,
no matter what, like I always go through the emotional
chaos in preparation for speaking, you know, oh, changing it
and carrying on and well I'm not ready and what

(44:41):
am I going to you know, how's this going to
come together? And blah blah blah blah. And but on
the day, I'm always excited, right because I love to
be I'm nervous, and then once I'm there, I love it.
I love connecting, I love being in the room with people.
Podcasting is quite consistent for me. It's it's almost every
day doing my podcast on the podcast with Harps, and

(45:04):
there's a lot more ebbs and flows in just daily life,
and there's been times sipped from the very beginning of
this journey right up until definitely this year, I've just
been a shit of a year. At times where I
have been in the middle of conversations and I've thought beforehand,
I should just cancel this, but I'm not one to cancel,
so I just kid. I feel like I'm in a funk.

(45:25):
I'm tired, and i just don't feel like I'm going
to bring my best. And then in some conversations, I
just feel like I'm doing a terrible job as a host.
I'm like, you are so terrible at this, Like this
feels like a question answer podcast and not your usual
flow of conversation, and I really beat myself up and

(45:45):
get down about it, and I'm like, oh God, And
eventually I'll have a listen to it. Sometimes it takes
a while because I don't want to listen to me
being shit, And occasionally I'll listen to it and be like, ah,
what was the problem. There was no problem with that.
That was not clunky, Like I thought that was clunky,

(46:06):
and that wasn't clunky, and I didn't sound however, I
thought I sounded. So it really interests me in how
we because we are emotional beings and energy driven beings.
How do we? And it was the same with boxing,
It was the same with thinking that you know a

(46:27):
performance was shit, And like I always tell a specific
story where I was sparring, and I remember, I can
so vividly remember this day where I sat down afterwards
and I took my head gear off and my mouth
guard out, and I was just kind of staring at
the wall, frustrated at myself, pissed off. And my coach

(46:47):
comes over and he goes, what's the matter with you?
And I go, just I just frustrated. I'm sick of it.
I'm sick of being so shit at it. And he
looked at me and he goes, yeah, no one in
this gym has ever put pressure on Carly the way
you just did. That's the best you have ever sparred. Now,
Carli was worlds at more advance than me and a

(47:11):
few weight divisions, maybe two or three weight divisions heavy.
I'm in a small ring and she and to hear
that feedback, I was like, hang on, I think I'm
sitting here under the guys that I am so shit,
and I'm embarrassed about it, and I'm frustrated by it,
and I'm annoyed that I don't know how to get better.

(47:32):
And then my coach comes and says, hey, that's the
best you've ever sparred. And on top of that, as
a little fucking tiny little novice here, you've just put
more pressure on one of our girls than most people
have ever Like, how do we trust ourselves to keep going?

Speaker 1 (47:49):
My friend John once asked me a question. I've talked
about John a lot. I think he's just he's brilliant comedian, educator.
And he said, what do you think happens if Steven
Spielberg rocks up to set one morning and he just
feels like he is completely shit? What do you think happens?

(48:15):
I was like, I don't know. Maybe that's why we
never had a sequel to et, you know, went home,
never came back. I don't know. Some people can say
I don't really blame him, but he said nothing. He
has an he has an amazingly productive creative day because

(48:38):
of craft, because every day he has worked on his craft.
So he walks in on set and he's feeling amazing.
He's going to produce something special. He walks onto set
and he's feeling completely like shit, He's going to produce
something amazing. It's craft. It's just keep going and doing

(49:02):
the reps. But like you know this better than anybody,
it's not about doing the reps. It's not about like, Okay,
I've done like four presentations this week. It's about how
you do it. Okay, What am I looking for? What's
the main thing I want to convey? How do I
want people to feel? Okay? I presented what happened? Right, Like,

(49:24):
what if I could go back in time, rewind and
do this whole day over again. What went particularly well here?
What was I really pleased with?

Speaker 4 (49:37):
What brought that about?

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Was it the way I felt? Was it that I
got there early, or I listened to comedy or I
was listening to music in my head. I think preparing
and reading your notes before you go on stage is
a massive mistake, right. It's like, if you don't know
what you're going to say about you probably probably not
shouldn't be speaking on it about the state you get in, Yeah,

(50:02):
you know, maybe I don't know. Maybe I listened to uh,
maybe I listened to the theme of Stranger things. We'll
stick with that that got really good soundtrack? Maybe it's that. Okay,
if what would I have changed? Why? And is there
anything that I didn't anticipate that happened that I was

(50:24):
surprised by? Like what surprised me? What was novel about
this particular session? What did I learn? You keep doing
that and then you prepare based on that, like you
carry all that over into practice for the next one.
I think you'll get better and better. So it's a value.

(50:44):
It's it's it's getting up, doing the repetitions and evaluating
what happened and what do I do next?

Speaker 3 (50:53):
Sure things interesting to bear in mind is the idea
that when we choose to do, when we are following
a passion or a love, when we choose to dedicate
our life and career to something that fills our cup,
like yourself, like myself, and like a lot of people
and even people I think with jobs. You choose a

(51:14):
job and you go, this is the career that I
want to dedicate myself to because I love it and
it feels good. The trap is the almost thinking that
the feeling good is the reason we're doing it and
not just the doing of it. Like yes, it's a
performed like, yeah, this most of what I do relies

(51:35):
heavily on performing well doing it, but I don't do it.
I didn't start doing it because I performed well. I
started doing it because something about the doing of it
captivated me and made me want to perform well. Right,
And then I think that subconsciously we can fall into
the trap of well, one day I'll just feel like

(51:58):
I'm good at this, and that never It never happened.
In boxing, I'm aware. I was aware that I had
a skill set. I was aware that I won more
than I lost. I was aware when I got titled.
I was aware that I had capabilities and had and improvements.
But in the middle of that, the driver of it
was always I'm doing this to get better.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Yeah. Confidence is overrated. Confidence has to be balanced with
equal measure of confidence, otherwise you're going to get your
ass kicked, definitely in the rank on stage. In sales
like don't get too confident. Curiosity again, going back to that,
curiosity isn't throwing because curiosity gets you out of your
own head and puts you in the moment. It puts

(52:42):
you on stage, it puts you in in connection with
other people in your audience or sometimes you know, you
could find out where there's meaning in something by just
trying shit, because I don't think I agree with you.
Where if there's something meaningful, something you value, how can

(53:02):
I express this value? For some people that's public speaking,
for some people that's making music, or there's also I
was just fucking about and I found out in a
good way, right, So he was like, like, what I
got up in front of an audience. I didn't want

(53:22):
to be there. Oh, so it's sad. So a couple
of weeks ago, Dennis Weightly died. Dennis weight Lee was
a public speaker. He was like one of the godfathers
of the self help industry, you know, like if if

(53:46):
self help was a mafia, he would have been one
of the heads of one of the five families. And
he just he was the first person I was ever
introduced to. And I met Dennis. Actually, we've hung out,
we've we've had big nights out actually, and you know,
I kept in touch with him for a bit. There's

(54:09):
another lesson there and then stopped. And he was the
first person I ever listened to where I said, oh
my god, I didn't know people expressed ideas this way,
and I was enthralled because my boss was driving around
and he was like, Okay, I want you shut up
for like thirty minutes, which, as you well know, epic

(54:31):
esque and just just listen to.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
The I know, right.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
So I'm lucky I didn't implode. I could have had
an aneurysm. But he's like, listen to this and just
don't say a word until this is over. And I
feel like that changed me. That planted theaters Dennis Waite
leaves the Psychology of Winning, and my boss put me

(54:59):
up in front of a room them like like over
one hundred people my first time speaking. I think my
second time.

Speaker 4 (55:05):
Was oh oh. They were like, oh, could you do
this thing?

Speaker 1 (55:09):
There's this group that wants a speaker and we just
go in and talk to them. I was like, sure,
no problem, I'll go in. I'll talk to him about
like fitness and goal setting and health. And I was
like nineteen. I walk in the room. There were hundreds
of people in the room. I was like, ah, oh
my god. My girlfriend at the time was with me,

(55:31):
and I like started walking away from the room. I
was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna go to the toilet.
She like, all right, you're coming back. So I was like,
I don't know, I'm gonna throw up, Like I don't
want to do this, and they were It was the worst.
Both of those things were the worst experience ever, especially
the big group. But then people would come up to

(55:51):
me and say like, oh wow, that was so helpful
for me. I got something. What there was saying is
I saw something possibility for me that I didn't see
before that, and that connected to my value structure. I
wasn't even aware explicitly what my value structure was, but

(56:13):
I knew the exchange of ideas and dialogue and discussing
possibilities and creative ways forward was something that enthralled me,
you know, at a table with two people, not like
three hundred. But from that day forward, I think the

(56:34):
next five hundred times I spoke, I wanted to throw
up right before every single time. But drawing something happened.
I was so connected. I disappeared, so I had no
awareness of what I was feeling in terms of fear
and anxiety, and after it was over, I had this

(56:57):
euphoric feeling. It was just incredible. Oh my god, I
just love doing this. So for me I didn't know. Oh,
speaking as how I can contribute, I.

Speaker 4 (57:10):
Just tried it.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
I said yes to something even though I didn't even
want to say yes to it. So sometimes you just
got to go out and just you know, join an
improv group or you know, just join join you know,
a painting group and you know where you like wine
and painting. You ever do those things?

Speaker 3 (57:30):
I love those.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
I love yeah, like I'm in it for the mail beck.
I gotta be honest, painting some for me. But I've
done those things. It's like, just play around with shit
and see what works for you. You might hate something,
so you don't have to do it again, just just
play it life.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Yeah, I love that. I mean I got put into
networking when I was younger, younger he's probably in my thirties,
late twenties, and I was petrified last year. Yeah, yeah, yep,
just last dar February. I always had an underlying appreciation

(58:14):
and was quite captivated when people had an ability to
hold a room or shift and energy or connect that.
There was a pull there. But I never at that
point went I want to do that. I was just like,
that's really there's something there. And then a boss of mine,

(58:35):
a company merged, and then I got thrown into this
networking membership he had and fuck Bobby, the terror of
standing up in front of there was thirteen people in
the room at this first one thirty. The terror I
had to stand up and speak for sixty seconds to

(58:55):
introduce my name, the name of my business, and what
we did to my peers was terrifying. I remember as
they each went around and had their turn, my mind
just went blank. I'd written it down, I'd practiced it
all night, I had it. I'm pretty sure I had
it written in front of me, but I didn't want

(59:15):
to read it because I hate that. But I just
remember sitting there and having this empty, blank mind and
I couldn't hear what that was. I couldn't hear what
the other people did. I don't know what they were
saying because I was so fucking terrified. And eventually here
we are, like, it's it's so crazy where new thing,

(59:37):
and you're saying with the improv like I did that
not because I wanted to do improv, but I was
by the time you introduced me to Dave Razowski, and
I had no fucking idea what improv was. What is improv?
I literally did not know you could have said gobbledygook
to me, Dave is a gobbledygook coach. That is what

(59:57):
I heard when you said Dave's an improv.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
I'm like, David loved that statement. By the way.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
I'm like, what is what is gobbledegook? And what does
Dave coach? And he is? Is he coaching using improv
to like? And then I'm like, I google it, I'm researching.
Go So Dave pretends with Dave just pretends he goes
to a place and then he just so Dave's four,

(01:00:25):
Dave's four, and he's a kid. And I was like,
that's so fucking weird.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
And then I was like, you know, that's so funny.
The irony of that statement, Dave. Dave is one of
the few people in society that teaches people to stop
pretending the situation. The situation is fictitious, the interaction is
as real as you're ever. That's what I hate to

(01:00:50):
just that is what was so seductive about Dave. Like
I was a little bit afraid of Dave. Actually I
still am probably a little bit afraid of Dave because
I was like, this guy is so free and in
the moment and creative and express like it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
Is fucking terrifying.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I want some of this. You were amazing with him.
At the very end of your podcast where you and
Dave were just riffing. I think about like I don't know,
I forgot what it was, but there was like suitcases
evolved on and maybe the two of you were planning
to run away together or something. And I was like, wow,
you were you were great. You were great, because that's

(01:01:33):
I think, that's just.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Kind of remember that. I can't even remember the conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
It was like, no, I remembered it because you know
how like when something sparks your interest, like you could
see that one scene in a movie and you remember
it ten years later because it touched something emotionally you.
I was like, oh, wow, Tiffany's just right there, Like
that riff was beautiful, because like Dave would, oh my goodness,

(01:02:01):
like even trying to get me past the bridge line.
It took Dave like four months. I could just see
Dave sweating in sessions with me, just just sweat pouring
down his face, like he probably canceled his sessions after me.
It's like I'm just gonna have a lie down. It's just.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
Ah, but yeah, I loved that. You know. I got
through that conversation and went, this is this is another
version of a boxing ring for me. I think I
need to go and do this weird thing. I think
that there's I think there's big lessons in there that
you can't learn through theory. Very cool.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
I wonder what the link is with you and boxing
and speaking and improv I feel like there's a point
where this converges for you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Boxing was a place two weeks here an interpretation. Boxing
for me was a place to explore where there are
boundaries and rules, but I was allowed to be well.
I was allowed to be visible. I was visible, and
I was allowed to be seen as exactly who I am,

(01:03:21):
and that I'm okay and I'm empowered and I'm safe
and I'm capable. It's an honest place where the person
standing in front of me is not pretending to be
my friend. They're standing there in front of the world
going I'm gonna punch you in the face real hard.
I'm here with an intention of beating you and you

(01:03:44):
might get hurt. And there's something about that that for me,
was very appealing in its honesty and very real. I
think that the improv was a place where where I
get so that taught me how to function within that

(01:04:05):
boundary set. And then improv was a place where there
were different rules and still rules, but self expression there weren't.
There wasn't hey, this is what you have to do.
It's hey, there's actually there's no way to do this.
Here are some rules to give you a structure, but

(01:04:26):
now you just have to you just have to be
and do whatever comes up. And I think that I
can often find myself looking for answers in this course
I'm doing with the structured ways of processing thought and
structures ways of I don't know coming up with what

(01:04:48):
we're presenting. I don't work within those structures, and my
brain implodes. I go, I don't know what. Just tell
me the fucking answer. Just tell me the answer, or
just put me on the stage with no plan. They're
the rules. You either do it for me or just
put me on the stage and I'll and it'll happen
when I'm there because i'll because that's the structure I know.

(01:05:10):
So I think that improv is a place where you
just have to start using a new muscle and being
okay with it and having fun and going. There's no
implications if you get it wrong, someone's not going to
knock you out. You're not going to get CTE. You're
just gonna You're just gonna be there and you don't
have to be funny.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
There are some imps that are pretty intense, So yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
I was thinking about doing another improv workshop this year
just to hone those. But then when I heard about
the the link to the comedy, I was like, Oh,
that ups the stakes. Maybe maybe that'll be something I'll explore.
But it does terrify me very very much. Expectation, like
people's expectation of you know what the expectation is. People think,

(01:06:00):
come here because I think I'm funny, not because I
want to understand it or I want to develop it.
And that's the same as a speaker. People people think
you're on stage because you think you're good, but actually
you're on stage because you want to be good. And
I think there's more different and there's.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
What you the essence of what it is you want
to contribute. So I want anything you truly value. I
think you want that. There's this intrinsic motivation to get
better and better, to explore it and grow within that craft.
And there's this like Amy said this beautifully where she

(01:06:36):
was giving a speech at the Plaza Hotel in New
York and she was talking about art and she said,
you know, art is the ability for me to see
myself in you and for you to see yourself in me.

(01:06:56):
I was like, Oh, isn't that beautiful? That is why
at the core of what we are as human beings,
I believe it is art because that's all there is.
I think that is the deepest level of existence, and
it's something that is disappearing from all world pathologically. And

(01:07:19):
I don't know, we could probably do a whole episode
about what's causing that. I don't know, but I think
when you think about when do I feel most human
at the core, it's that definition of art. It's when
that level of art is occurring, whether on screen, in concert,

(01:07:41):
right on stage, or at a coffee shop between two
people that are completely disappearing in dialogue and conversation communion
with one another like that. Shit, it's powerful.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Where can everybody find you? What do you got? What
do you got for the messes right now? Anything?

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Well, my address is.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
Dress and phone number would be great.

Speaker 4 (01:08:15):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
I would actually do and be like really insulted if
stalkers did not rock up?

Speaker 4 (01:08:24):
What am.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Just joking any potential stalkers out there?

Speaker 4 (01:08:30):
That was just a joke.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Just I have ADHD, so it's very hard to stalk
me because I just get distract Just it's just where
am I? Oh, I know where I am geographically. But
Robert Capuccio dot com, the self help antidote dot com,
I'm on LinkedIn. I'm gonna be getting into social media

(01:08:56):
a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (01:09:00):
You've been doing some great videos. Have you got anything
you're doing anything coming up that that people can access? No,
all right, get stuffed everyone. Nothing for you, guys. You
can watch great videos and tune into these podcasts and
on the self health helps Help Help. Can you say
that self health health.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
That it's like a drinking game, Isn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
Help? Antidote, You're amazing, Thanks Bobby, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
Tiffany, she said, it's now never I got fighting in
my blood.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
T