June 4, 2025 • 56 mins
We covered a lot of ground, and some of it went deep, so a heads-up that this episode does touch on mental health struggles. Donna shared her personal story of going from what looked like a successful, 'together' life to a sudden, overwhelming mental health crisis that nearly took her life. What’s wild is how fast it all happened... from a work conflict to suicidal thoughts in the span of just over a week.
She talked about the shame, the silence, and the pressures that built up. But also, how she came through the other side (not just once, but twice) and how she’s now using her lived experience to help create healthier, more resilient workplaces. We got into the nuances of resilience, coping strategies, and the stuff that actually helps when you're not okay.
Honestly, this episode was an awesome and real coffee-chat in the best way. It’s a reminder that no one’s immune to mental health battles, and that asking for help can literally change the outcome. Donna’s story is one of courage, purpose, and serious self-reflection. I’m really grateful she came on and shared it with so much heart.
SPONSORED BY TESTART FAMILY LAWYERS
Website: testartfamilylawyers.com.au
TIFFANEE COOK
Linktree: linktr.ee/rollwiththepunches/
Website: tiffcook.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tiffaneecook/
Facebook: facebook.com/rollwiththepunchespodcast/
Instagram: instagram.com/rollwiththepunches_podcast/
Instagram: instagram.com/tiffaneeandco
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is Role with the Punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Please be aware that during this episode we do talk
about the topic of suicide. If you're feeling fragile today,
maybe it's worth holding off until you're feeling a little
bit better and able to engage with the content.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Doroth this await, Welcome to Roll with the Punches.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Thanks too great to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
How are you on this fine day up there in Queensland?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, I'm traveling pretty well today. Actually all good for
me and I don't know, it's not quite it's not
quite warm here, but it's not that cold either, so I.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Feel I jumped on zoom last night and had a
chat to one of my good friends up in Queensland
who said, got mug boots on or got the blanky
on and she said, and it's still and it's twenty
seven degrees and I wanted to punch here in the face.
And so as you sit here today saying oh it's no, no, no, don,
(01:51):
I would not accept it. You are in paradise compared
to Melbourne's brutal rot that it calls weather.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, yeah, indeed, we definitely can't complain they're a bit
soft though, because we are used to the warmer weather. Right. Well,
this is the thing.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
And I've always said I'm from Australia, obviously, I'm from
Tazzy originally, and everyone always comes at me with it
each but eased of they're cold, and I'm like, yeah,
but I have I feel like Melbourne goes to the
extremes in summer and the extremes in winter, which gives
you no baseline to get comfortable with. It's like, it's
(02:27):
too bloody hot in summer, I can't cope, and then
it's too bloody cold in winter. I can't cope, and
I probably don't. I don't dress appropriately for either.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, I can always change in the course of the
day in Melbourne as well.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. Hey, would you like to
give a little intro to yourself, to myself and my audience?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, sure. So obviously I live in Brisbane. I have
my own business called Mentally Wealthy, and we provide training
solutions to organizations to help create mentally healthier workplaces. So
I've got a passion for mental health and resilience and
(03:13):
that really comes from my personal lived experience of having
a very significant mental health crisis. My story would have
actually featured on an episode of Australian Story which aired
in twenty seventeen, So I'm not sure if you knew that.
No I didn't.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I'm like, I'm going to have to go and watch
that now.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, it still is available via their website and they
did a wonderful job with it. So yeah, back in
twenty twelve, while I was working as a human resources professional,
I had a crisis of confidence, had an argument at
work with somebody and it sort of triggered a chain
reaction and yeah, unfortunately I started to be plagued by
(03:55):
really negative thoughts, and it all happened in a relatively
short time, sort of like seven to ten days. Having
said that, I think the cracks were always there, like
you know, like many people, I have some childhood trauma
and you know, other sort of adverse life events that
(04:16):
have obviously sort of affected my mental health. But generally
I was known as a really positive person, enthusiastic, happy,
go lucky, and nobody foresaw that I would actually get
to a point where I made an attempt on my life.
So it's really big things. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I listened to a little bit of like I said
to you before, just a little bit of a podcast
that you've done a few years ago talking about your experience,
and I really warmed to listening to it because it
sounded like a very unique and relatable version of events
(04:57):
that was just struck me as being so like ordinary
and inverted commas, Like you know, we think that there's
there's something I'm really big on this whole, like a
I don't know, I feel like I go for the
jugular on the whole, you know this or that kind
(05:17):
of attitude of giving answers. It's like, oh, well, this
is resilience, and it's like, no, maybe maybe that's resilience
and maybe it's dissociation. Like maybe Tip getting in the
boxing ring and fighting is is resilience and toughness, or
maybe it wasn't tough because she was. What she discovered
later is she was kind of just a little bit
(05:37):
dissociated in that environment, which was real strength in the
boxing ring. So that's maybe and maybe that's a good
thing in that environment if you're aware. So it's that
whole nuance around Yeah, but maybe.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Look, I think this topic is quite complex,
and you know, it's individuals are complex. People are human
are very complex, and so I personally don't think that
anyone is immune to a suicidal crisis. You just never
know what's going to happen in life. You know, we
(06:11):
get curveballs all the time, and you know, in my circumstances,
I often think of it now as like a perfect storm.
You know, this sort of collision of the challenge that
I had at work and my history and it just created, unfortunately,
quite a catastrophic situation and you know, may very well
(06:33):
have resulted in me no longer being around. So yeah,
thankfully that wasn't the outcome. Thankfully. I woke up in
hospital and very soon after came to the conclusion that
I must be meant to be here, and I became
(06:55):
very interested in why it happened, you know, how I
could avoid it happening again, and what I was going
to do next, because I thought, if this can happen
in my life, I think maybe I'm not on the
right path. And so I left my corporate job. Interestingly,
I set up my own business A sort of year
(07:18):
and a half later, I would say, so, I did
some additional studies, sort of transitioned from HR to being
a career coach, and yeah, set up my own business,
which I often marvel at because I think if anything
will test your mental health, it's running your own business.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, correct her.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, So to do that with Bragio mental health, I
think is quite interesting. But you know, mostly it's been good.
There's been a few little sort of challenges along the way,
but yeah, that's sort of where I went next. And
after seven years as a career coach, I had this
(07:59):
feeling I wanted to be one to many, not to
not one to one, and I became a mental health
estaid instructor and ultimately sort of four and a half
years ago, transition full time into mental health and resilience.
So we have sort of tailored programs. We have a
(08:21):
suite of programs for our clients. I don't do one
on one work. It's really sort of training and speaking,
and I love it and it feels like a way
to have transformed what was sort of one of my
biggest challenges into something that's helpful to other people.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, it's to think that in seven days, that an
experience can create an onset of a seven day turnaround
from being perceived mentally well and doing life to having
made an attempt on that life. Can you share a
(09:05):
little bit about the experience of that as much as
you'd a little or as much as you'd like to,
and that you'd think would be valuable.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah. Sure. So after that sort of incident at work
and having these sort of self doubts come up, like
I said, it sort of triggered this chain reaction. So
everything that I was sort of experiencing, I was seeing
through this lens of I'm not good enough, there's something
wrong with me, and that stuff had been there, but
(09:36):
I'd done years of psychotherapy. I thought that I put
it all to bed, but yeah, I just felt so
much doubt. I remember walking out of meetings and thinking, Oh,
they know you've got no idea what you're doing. I
was doing something new in the organization I worked for.
I was on a project and I was leading a
(09:56):
small team, which was the first time I'd done that
in that company, and I'd been there sixteen years at
the time. So yeah, this nagging doubt was just there,
and the voice got louder and louder, and you know,
it would have been great to reach out to somebody
and let them know what was going on, but I
(10:18):
felt if I did that that I would be broadcasting
that I was a failure and I just my ego whatever,
I could not cope with that. I just kept it
to myself. And yeah, like hid what was going on.
And at the time, my partner was away. He rarely
went away. I think it was he went on a
(10:38):
boys trip in his comby with a mate, and so
we're about four years into our relationship then, and I
didn't want to tell him what was going on because
he'd never really gone away on a trip before, and so,
you know, didn't want to spoil that for him, and
the leader that I had at the time, as she
was away overseas as well. So you know, I think
(11:00):
there were just these little things that you know, contributed
to that perfect storm, if you know what I mean. So, yeah,
just the voice was louder and louder, and I started
to think that I'll get sacked from work, which you know,
in hindsight, sixteen years in with a good performance record,
that was extremely unlikely. But you know, when we get
(11:22):
into this mindset, we're not rational, and so you know,
and the fact I wasn't talking to anyone about what
was going on, you know, then thoughts just got out
of control. And then like the thought of losing my job,
you know, I was just like, oh my god, I'm
going to be a terrible role model to my son.
(11:43):
He was only two at the time this happened. And
my partner had this property at townhouse when we met,
and not long before this, I talked him into refinancing
it to be better for our families' finances. And I
just thought, if I lose my job, we're going to
lose that house. And that was his townhouse and that
(12:05):
was his batchpad. So I just felt this high percent
of responsibility which is related to my childhood, and I
just felt like I was basically mucking everything up, and
so I just couldn't think of a way forward or
how to get myself out of the mess. And yeah,
(12:26):
I just in the end was like, I I can't
I can't handle this. I don't know how to fix it.
And I think the best solution would be that I'm
not here. My family will be better off without me.
And so yeah, Unfortunately, on the twelfth of August twenty twelve,
(12:46):
I made an attempt on my life. And as I said,
it's actually been featured in austraighted story, So maybe if
some of the listeners are interested, they could check that out. Yeah,
and thankfully I survived that experience, and I'm so grateful.
And I've actually had a second suicidal crisis that not
(13:09):
everybody knows about about two years ago and a bit
over two years ago, and it played out very differently
because last time I didn't speak to anybody, and this time,
you know, I talked to my partner about what I
was going through. I got in to see a psychologist.
I had friends around me that knew what was happening.
(13:31):
So I was talking about things and I got help,
and it never actually escalated to the point of me
making another attempt. I certainly had ideation, and it was
such an interesting experience because I didn't think it could
happen to me again, because you know, I work in
this space, and you know I've got such a really
(13:54):
solid resilience toolkit. Now, yeah, just didn't really didn't think
it was possible, and I actually felt quite this is
a strong web. But I felt disgusted in myself, to
be honest, I felt like, who am I that when
the going gets tough, I want to like exit stage left.
(14:17):
I was like, what is that? Like, where does that
come from?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
That?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I think that's appropriate of that my mind wants to
go there. And I did talk to the psychologist who
was treating me about that, and he said, it's sort
of like the ultimate escape fantasy. But you know, for
somebody like me, you know there's a real risk because
I had this previous attempt. So yeah, that was a
really interesting experience, and it was sort of nine weeks
(14:44):
of being in a really challenging place where I had
these thoughts just constantly plaguing me. And after nine weeks
I actually got to a point where I actually went
and had a coffee with a friend and she said,
how are you? What's been happening? And the time I'd
(15:07):
seen her last was just before i'd started to unravel,
and I shared with her what had been going on,
and she was really shocked and was like, oh, my goodness,
you know, I can't believe that. I wish you had
to call me all of that stuff. Thankfully, I was
speaking to some friends, but after we met, I realized
(15:31):
that I'd gone to that coffee catch up feeling okay,
like feeling well enough that day, but when I left,
I actually felt really down again, and I felt like
I felt almost like hopeless again. And I was like, wow,
like that's a really interesting energy. How did I go
(15:54):
from where I was to that? And I sort of
realized that by talking about it, it was like I
dropped back into the energy almost like I was, you know,
marinating in that again. And I was just like, wow,
like this isn't how I want to feel at all?
(16:15):
How do I want to feel? And so I really
started to think about reflect on, you know, what is
it I want? What is it I want to feel?
What is it I want to exist in my life?
And I thought you know, I want my phone to
ring for my business. You know, I want to feel joyful,
(16:39):
and you know I want to feel connected. And so
I really just sort of channeled this sort of feeling
and thought, right, I don't have to talk to everybody
about what's going on. I'm already getting professional help. I've
got a handful of friends that I'm speaking to. I
don't actually think it's serving me to just keep going
(17:01):
over what has been going on in my brain and
my life the past sort of a couple of months.
And so, yeah, it was just this moment of Nope,
this is I'm going to step into what it is
that I actually want to feel. And from that point
I was able to just turn things around again, which
was pretty Yeah, felt great.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Wow, thank you for sharing that when you what I
was going to ask, And I guess it applies to
both scenarios, but especially that first one where you woke
up in hospital. What was what did it feel like?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Or what?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
How do you grasp a sense of self when when
a part of you has taken the wheel and acted
not in your best interests in it? So, like, how
do we separate the emotion and the actions and the
decisions from the person that's experiencing that, because I think
that's the hardest part for people is like I do
(18:02):
this action, but I want to live and I just
want to like it. And for those of us who
haven't experienced that, it's it's like, how do we get
a grasp of the understanding on that.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, right when I woke up in the hospital, like
it just felt surreal, I actually lost a lot of time.
So I've got a black spot in terms of what
happened on that afternoon. I knew, you know, what I
(18:36):
had done, but yeah, like I said, that was a
black spot. And so I woke up like really disoriented.
You know, I didn't know where I was, felt really
hot and uncomfortable. It had had these hypothermia blankets on me,
and I was in like the er and you know,
there's really bright lights. My mother in law was there
(18:59):
in my partner, and so I was really shocked because
it wasn't the outcome I expected. And so yeah, once
I sort of worked out what had gone on, Yeah,
I just sort of process that, and as I said,
fortunately for me, I thought I must be meant to
be here, because I don't think that is the conclusion
(19:22):
for everybody.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I've certainly heard of people saying, oh my gosh, I've
failed at that as well. Thankfully that wasn't the reaction
that happened for me. But yeah, it was really difficult
to sort of process that I had that I had
done this, that I, you know, had taken that sort
of action, because, like I said, I was a sort
(19:45):
of person that no one would think would do that,
including me, including me, you know, just like you know,
really happy person, positive, cheerful, you know, people would say
to me when I was young and even as an adult,
like I want whatever you're on, you know, and that
wasn't a mask, that is my disposition. But it seems
(20:09):
that sometimes I I can just experience such incredible self
doubt and shame. I think shame's a really big part
of all of this. Shame is huge. I think it's
(20:30):
definitely something that can put people at risk of suicide. Shame,
and so yeah, it's yeah, it wasn't a difficult. It
wasn't an easy situation to reconcile at all. And I
think like from both of those experiences, one of the
(20:52):
biggest takeaways is really just that it's not the answer.
It's never the answer, and that we are always changing
and our circumstances are always changing as well, and so
it's just so important that we can like hang on
and hang in there and that the people around us
(21:14):
have some idea how to support us if we're having
sort of suicidal thoughts or even just experiencing mental health problems,
because you know, that's the start of it usually, and
so you know, letting people know that it's temporary, that
(21:35):
all of that feelings are temporary.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I wrote down before when you were talking, I wrote
down what's holding me together? And because I was thinking
of like that understanding of what are the things that
are holding us together that when and we may not
be aware of it, but when they a few of
those links disappear in a moment like the perfect storm
(22:01):
you described, that we then end up like hanging in
another space momentarily. It's and it's it just makes me
kind of also think about that, reflecting on what you know,
the difference between coping mechanisms and how much and I
(22:23):
guess it's more of the for me, the awareness of them.
Are we aware of how we're coping? And coping is
not a bad thing or a good thing. It's just
a thing, and there's you know, there's a continuum, and
there's a level of coping we just have to do
in life, and there's also a level of maybe self
exploration or healing or whatever our journey, for lack of
(22:44):
a better word requires. What do you have any thoughts
on those types of things? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Sure, Look, I think ideally we want to thrive. We
want to spend as much time as we can thriving.
And I think you're absolutely right self awareness is part
of that and healing because we all have some form
of trauma, right. I remember years ago I was at
(23:15):
like a it was like a personal growth sort of experience.
We sort of sat in circle for a few days
and everyone was sort of addressing their stuff, so to speak.
And I met this beautiful girl there who was much
younger than me, and I gave her a lift after
the retreat. And during the retreat, I realized that she
(23:40):
had had, you know, some pretty challenging childhood experiences. And
I said, oh my gosh, I just feel so sad
that you had to go through that. You know, it
just doesn't seem fair, you know, the way life happens sometimes.
And she said to me, Donna you know, we've all
(24:03):
got trauma, right, like, you know, it's not a matter
of my trauma's bigger than your trauma. And she said, look,
if you've led this charmed life, you know, your first
relationship breakup can be your trauma. You know, like it's
it's about how we respond to this stuff and how
(24:25):
we feel about this stuff and the messages we take
from it and everything and so and the baggage that
we take forward from those experiences. And what she said
really resonated with me. You know, I think that there
are a lot of people walking around in our communities
that have trauma. There are a lot of people with shame,
and a lot of people don't know what to do
(24:46):
with this stuff, you know, and so yeah, I think
all of that can put us at risk of mental
health problems. And you know, in terms of that, you know,
spectrum of coping. You know, coping is this great and
it's a it's partly you know what resilience is our
ability to cope with the challenges of life. But sometimes
(25:08):
that coping can be adaptive, you know, like having practices
like breathing, you know, techniques. I'm a cyclist, riding my
bicycle is my happy place. I would do and even
if it wasn't good for you, because it makes me
so happy, right, And so that's obviously adaptive, you know,
going to the gym, you know, eating nutrition, nutritious food.
(25:32):
But then lots of us have maladaptive strategies, so you know,
obviously drinking could be one of those, or drinking excessively
eating you know, food. For many of us, we have
an interesting relationship with food. It's comfort, you know, the
same you know, it could be said for even TV.
(25:53):
And so it's sort of like, what what are we
getting from this experience? You know, because often we're just numbing,
you know, it's a coping strategy of just not feeling
that emptiness inside or you know, the negative self talk
or you know, the racing thoughts, all of that stuff.
(26:15):
So you know, I like to think that I have
really good resilience practices now, but you know, two years
ago that wasn't even enough to stop me from having
suicidal thoughts again. And so I really love the statement
(26:38):
that resilience is a state, it's not a trait. And
so you know, it's something that we can build, but
you know, there are times when it can be really
tested if we have new challenges in our life, you know,
if we're things are rocky with our relationship, or you know,
(26:58):
we've just start a new job, or oh my gosh,
you've just had a baby. We do you might need
some additional or different resilience practices right now, you know. Yeah,
does that answer the question, do you think?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Tiv Yeah, one hundred percent. And it touches on another thing.
I rant and rave about a lot, which is the
you know, like the how to build resilience and it
people it's such a selling point to carry on about
doing the hard things. Yeah, you know, go do a
(27:32):
hard workout, Go get in a cold fucking shower, go
and do the Go do a marathon, Go push yourself,
push yourself pushes like without context. Like sometimes people's hard
thing is actually the easy thing that lets them run
from the thing that's really hard. Like it's not about
the hard thing. It's about the thing you don't want
(27:54):
to do or the thing that you're trying to avoid.
But that just gets left out of the conversation because
it's not sex and you can't sell that. Yeah, and yeah,
I just think that you touched on that perfectly.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Then Yeah, that's a really good point what you just raised, right,
because like I used to just have this history of
trying to prove myself because I always thought there was
something wrong with me.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
So I went to UNI as a mature aid student,
you know, set myself a goal of you know, getting
the Chairman's Award or whatever. You know, it just worked
so hard, practically got Stevens. You know, like my GPA
was six point two and then you know, I rode
from Sydney to the Gold Coast twice. I've done the
(28:41):
Kokoda track and your guinea. It was like I was
always trying to prove to myself and to other people
that I was okay. So yeah, I agree with what
you're saying. Sometimes we're running from things or I guess
it comes from it relates to where is this coming from?
Is this coming from or is it coming from love
(29:02):
or you know some other positive sort of emotion.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, Like for me, being still is harder than being
busy and do it. Like getting in the boxing ring
that was easy. Like I remember in my early thirties
when I just started boxing and you know, i'd had
one or two fights and early thirties, so you know,
you're not twenty anymore, and it was like, sometimes I
(29:28):
get home from work. I've got a full time job,
and I'm like, really, just I'm too tired. I'd probably
show a day off. I'll just I'll just go for
a walk. And the overwhelming sense of dread and loneliness
would overcome me on a walk and I would be like,
(29:49):
what the F is this? Like what is this? Because
being still and quiet gave me that space. But I
just hadn't needed to do that before, because I spent
my younger years just go, go go, I'll just keep
I'll just do something different. I'll just show you so
that I can believe it myself, how tough and independent
and bloody brilliant I am totally tiff.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
You know that resonates completely with me, but I think
it will with lots of your listeners too, you know,
if they actually stop and think about it. You know,
often we're just you know, I mentioned the numbing sort
of activities we engage in that being busy is absolutely
one of them as well. Yeah, yeah, we're just on
(30:32):
that hamster well because it's a little scary when you stop,
you know, and you have space.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, and I'm sure you're the same, like you've you've
jumped into this area of having a business to make
a difference. So a business where you're you're learning and
you're improving and then you're passing on that knowledge and
it's fascinating. And that's a bit like what this podcast
was for me. It was like, how who could I
talk to to learn and share the learning and figure
(30:59):
it out? How comes? Some people get punched in the
face and they rise, and some people get punched in
the face and they fall, And you know it was
I was talking to one of my close friends recently
and I was like, you know, I tell that story.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I just told you.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Then I tell that as a story where I, you know,
I'm walking along since killed a road and I'm burst
into tears and I feel those feelings and I'm like,
what the hell?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
You know?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I'm too what is this? And there's been moments this
year that I have a smaller but a familiar experience
where I stop the race and I just go how
can I It's a decade on and I've told that
story for a decade, and I've made changes, and I've
(31:44):
done healing and I've worked on myself and I've figured
stuff out and then there'll be a moment and I'm like,
that's familiar. We're still We're still here at times, bloody hell.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
It's frustrating sometimes.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, yeah, it's like you know that self awareness is
brilliant and incredibly frustrating as well, because like once you
open that box, once you peel that layer back, you
can't put that layer back on and go back to
your blissful ignorance. It's like, oh, we know what's under
the hood now, Yeah, there's no option but to do
(32:24):
the work, you know.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
And such a big fan of the saying we know better,
we do better as well, it's like it almost feels
like an obligation now we know, you know, yeah, we
address this.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah. I also think it's really beautiful. Like I think
of watching the world want to, you know, falling into
what we we tend to seek or believe or do,
and that is that overwhelming sense of I just have
to get through this so that life can be better.
(33:00):
But actually I've said this a lot now, it's like, actually,
little do I know, maybe today's the very best circumstances
that I'm ever going to have in my life, and
maybe like a moment before something unfolding or me learning
something that's going to challenge me, and how much of
(33:23):
our lives do we miss being grateful for the now
it's always I've just got to get through this and
to get to the good part of my life where
everything's easy and feels good. And it's like, no, because
feeling good is relative.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's not a destination, right, We've got to
be able to incorporate it into the journey.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, nothing that's bad ever stays as bad as it was,
but neither there's any of the good stuff. And it's like, oh, well,
better just get good enjoying now, I better just get
good at being present. Yes, what are some of the
what are some of the things that maybe you learned
(34:06):
or implemented along the way that were quite pivotal for
you personally?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Yeah, okay, gratitude is definitely one of them. A massive
fan of gratitude. It's got a great evidence base. Now,
But I've had a practice that's been going on for
seven years and it consists of me and at the
moment there's three of us at one stage that used
(34:32):
to be four of us, and we text three things
that we're grateful for every day. So I think five
is a great maximum number to have in this sort
of practice, because you've got to read everyone's gratitudes every day.
But yeah, it blew me away. I heard about this
practice from a woman called Pam Grout who was interviewed
on a podcast I've listened to, and she's got a
(34:56):
great little book called Sank and Grow Rich, and so
she called them her power Posse, her little gratitude group.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
And so that wasn't pussy, was it was possy because
that could mean very different things.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, so when I heard about it, I was like,
oh gosh, I want some of that. So I asked
a friend if she'd liked to do it with me,
and so started with two of us, and then we
decided to invite some like a mutual friend, and then
we sort of ultimately grew it to five. And so
either on the actual day in the evening we text
(35:37):
three things were grateful for, or the next morning for
the day before. And what I love about it is
you have accountability. People are expecting to receive your gratitude.
You get a reminder when theirs comes in. Because I
would often write it in a journal and forget when
I went to bed, remember when I went to bed.
But what I think is one of its most amazing benefits.
(36:01):
And as far as I recall, you know, Pam didn't
speak about this, but you actually get to vicariously live
the joy of other people in the group. And that
just blew my mind because it's like you're witnessing other
people's lives. And as you can appreciate, in seven years,
a lot has happened in all of our lives. You know,
(36:22):
someone fell in love for the first time. You know,
one of our members lost her husband. You know, a grandchild.
All of this stuff. I mean, they're the big things,
but honestly, it's about the little things. You know. It's
about for me, exchanging a smile in the supermarket, someone
letting me in the traffic. You know, my son and
(36:44):
I am solving a problem last night. He's got a
part time job at macas and we couldn't get the
act to work and we solved that. And so, you know,
it's these little things, but savoring those things actually helps
your mindset. I love the saying every day is not good,
but there is good in every day, and so we've
(37:06):
got that part of our brain called the rats or
the articular activating system and it tunes into whatever we
pay attention to. So when you see the good, you
see more good and so you know, that is so
amazing for our mental health and well being. So that's
been a really big one.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
I'm going to implement that. I'm going to get the
power posey. I love it. One of my favorite practices
is I can't remember which podcast or book or who
said it. Now, I think you might have been doctor
Daniel Aim and for some reason, he's hopping into my
head what went well today? And it's a version of
gratitude practice, but without without calling it that, and it
(37:48):
was just it was beautiful because it was it was
like sneaky gratitude. It wasn't looking for hunting for it.
It was like, you know what, like you don't even
have to feel thankful, just what went well. And for
me it was it was a double whemmy because it
highlighted productivity when we're so prone to focus on all
the things we didn't do. Yeah, I'm so behind, I'm
(38:10):
so behind, and that's I would write some of the things.
I'm like, shit, I did all that that I'm grateful for,
and look at all this fun stuff that tumbled out
of my head as well.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
It's amazing, awesome, that's a great practice.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yeah, yeah, what else have you got that I can?
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I mentioned cycling. You know, I call it your thing.
So whatever your thing is. You know, I've got a
friend who it's building model airplanes. You know, it can
be golf, it can be near dancing, and you know,
I say to people, look, if you don't know what
it is like, just be curious and you know, go
out and try new things because when you find it,
(38:49):
if it was your cubs so beautifully, you know, I
say to people, you know you'll recognize it when you know,
like five hours will feel like fifteen minutes doing it
because you're so in the zone. You know, you lose
you lose that sort of concept of time because you're
(39:10):
just loving what you're doing. But afterwards you feel energized.
You know, you feel good. It makes you feel joyful.
So cycling is a big one for me. So back
when I have my mental health crisis, I had stopped cycling.
As I said, I had a two year old and
it took me seven years to get back on the bike.
And a coach saying to me, wow, you light up
when you do that, Like, why aren't you doing it?
(39:33):
And I said, well, because I've got this little child,
and you know, it's really hard. My partner starts work
at he leaves for work at twenty past five, you know,
five six days a week actually, and he was like,
you need to find a way, and so I did.
I asked my mother in lawa if my son could
(39:54):
sleep over one night a week so I could get
off and cycle on Friday mornings. And he did that
for a couple of years. Nowadays, he's just about to
turn fifteen, so I can leave him at home by himself.
But I still cycle. You know, I've been back on
it sort of seven or eight years and I can't
give it up. But even when I had that crisis
a couple of years ago, I didn't stop cycling. I
(40:17):
stopped riding with my usual group because I got sick
of everyone saying, gee, John, know what's wrong. You're not yourself.
We're so used to laughing the whole ride, and I
was a bit like, oh, I just don't want to
talk about what's happening, and so I just rode by myself.
I went and rode up Mount Kuther a little so
the hill. We got here, you know, on Sundays by myself,
(40:40):
you know, And then I shared with a friend what
was going on, and her and I rode while she
was sort of trying to get back into cycling. And so, yeah, look,
whatever their thing is, whatever your thing is, but we
must have a thing. And I think it can be
useful to think back to childhood too, what brought you
joy as a little person, you know what, because I
think it can give us some real clues. You know,
(41:01):
maybe it was maybe it was bike riding, you know,
maybe it was doing some rowing at school, or you know,
all sorts of different activities. It's about reconnecting with that.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, I reckon also doing the thing, about doing things
that are not my usual thing, like doing things unlike me.
Once upon a time, boxing was not me, wasn't the
thing I did, and then it become my greatest love.
This year, I bought a digital piano. I was like,
what's something that I can spend my time doing that's
(41:35):
hard to learn, that takes dedication, that gives me mindfulness
and creativity, but is nothing like me or any of
the people that I'm hanging out with. And I was like,
fucking yeah, one of those awesome.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, and you find pieces of yourself. I think we
developed identities that are just a facad. I went to
India last year and I couldn't wait to see who
was underneath all of the parts of me that were
just consumed by Tiff the boxer, Tiff the podcast, a
tip in the gym, the gym chick, the fit chick,
the chick that's always in a muscle tea. It was like,
(42:11):
I don't want to be in a muscle tea with
roll with the punch is written on it. I want
to be on a mountain with people that are that
are not like the people I hang out with every
day and see who I am underneath all that, because
I'm someone different and all those other parts and me
got left behind somewhere.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, And that really is getting
into your anu layers tips. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I remember being in that space and having the epiphany
that's like, I've only been a boxer for ten of
my forty two years or twelve of my forty two
years or whatever it is now. Yeah, and I've only
been a podcaster for five of them, so that's like
thirty over thirty five or thirty eight or whatever the
(42:55):
years that I wasn't that yet. I cling to these
things with white knuckles, like, well, this is who I am. No,
that's who you've shown the world you are, that's who
that's who they reflect back to you. But who actually
are you? There's so much more like you could be
anyone anywhere.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Absolutely. I was in a career coaching workshop years ago
and the facilitator of that program, he's quite well known
in like sort of career coaching academically and practically, and
he said, he asked us, did we think we knew ourselves?
(43:41):
And we had to put up a hand if we
think thought we did, and I put my hand up.
This would have been probably twelve years ago, and he
really challenged us on it, and it made sense, like
he's like, you haven't been in every situation in life
to know how you would respond to different circumstances. And
(44:06):
it really does make sense. You know, we think we
know each other, but we haven't lost a child, you know,
touch woods, you know we haven't. We haven't been in
some circumstances, many circumstances, you know that we would never
know how we would respond to those situations. So yeah,
it makes so much sense to me and what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
It's one of the things I loved about that, especially
that first one. That experience in the boxing ring is
I met a version of me that I never knew existed.
You can't pretend, you can't pretend in that situation. You
just respond and then you're left with the reality, not
the story. And I've told stories for years. Oh look
(44:46):
at the fucking story. Like, we have emotions and then
we act on them, and then we tell the most
comfortable version of story that fits that that we can
sit with. And it's like, Nope, in the ring, you
a punch comes at your face and you either punch
back or you cower, and that it's one to the other.
And there's no telling a bloody story because everyone can
(45:08):
see it, and so you have to and then if
you want to change it or you've got a lot
of work to do, you've got a lot of and
you've got to walk in and do that work in
the hard place. Yeah, like it's bloody awesome. I love it.
I miss it. I miss I miss daily punches in
the face.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Oh gosh, I's still be a massive Muhammad Ali fan.
When I was a kid, I just loved him so much,
and my dad used to get us to like wrestle
and box each other, my younger sister and I. So yeah,
I'm surprised, surprised that I didn't pursue a career in boxing,
because yeah, I've always been quite physical. But as an
adult now, I I've really reflected on the fact that
(45:53):
I actually think that I was like emotionally, like quite immature.
I had no ability to express myself except physically, so
I would punch boys and I never punched girls. I
would only ever punch boys. But yeah, I was very
(46:14):
physical except for my sister and my dad had us
in the boxing room, right, but he used to make
me get down on my knees because she was shorter
than me. But then when I was on my knees,
it was this, it was like the opposite.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
She was.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Carrying the same height difference but reversed and I was disadvantaged.
So yeah, I think, you know, for some people without
like you know, that ability to express you know, we
can have some dysfunctional ways of doing that. And yeah,
(46:52):
I'm not I don't punch people now, but even as
like an eighteen year old and stuff. If I was
talking to a guy and he said something, I would often,
you know, just swing a hand at them or whatever.
So yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Yeah, it's a beautiful sport and it's one of my
favorite things is introducing women to it that have never
done anything remotely physical like that with their body, and
you teach them the technique behind throwing a punch, so
they end up so fully in their body right. It's
(47:27):
you get an awareness on how you're where, you're feeling
things and feeling your body in a different way, and
then you're using it to exert power and it's visceral
like you. I can see the emotion come over them
and it's the best ever because I know it because
I because.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
I lived it.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
And I'm like, you've never done this before, You've never
had you never knew your body could do this and
that you were allowed to, and you've probably never tapped
in and felt what it's like to be and your
body like that. So good, get in the ring, sister.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Well, you know how I said I had the seven
years off cycling. I did a boxing class for that
seven years. It was like a boxing circuit class. We
went each other. There's pads, and stuff. But I loved it.
And the only reason I stopped was because it was
a Saturday morning class and I cycle on Sundays, and
I found it was like wasting my legs, wrecking my legs.
(48:25):
I was like, all right, I've got priorities here, right,
We've still got a bit of leg work back then.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Oh that's so good.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Well, you know what you were just saying about that
being in your body. You know that so many of
us struggle to me and our bodies, So you know,
that's really amazing to hear that. That's you know, it
comes with that experience. So yeah, yeah, Colas could use
more of that in our lives.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Yeah. For me, I feel that looking back it it
brought me into my boy and it invited me to
feel first physically and then beneath that came up a
bunch of emotion and then took me back into childhood
ship that I thought i'd safely tucked away. And I
(49:16):
was like, what's we left that behind? Like, that's a
that's in a box that says do not open in
the back of my mind. And you know, that's when
I realized, you can't just you can't. Can't you can't
hold silence and shame inside of you and just move
on from it. You have to process it. And Boxing
(49:37):
asked me to do that and it was beautiful.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
What a gift.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Love's amazing. That's amazing. What's next for you, Donna?
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Ah, yeah, great question. Well right now, I'm in the
midst of organizing a fundraising comedy event, so yeah, I'm
excited about that. I've on a few men's mental health
events and raise money for mental health charities. I'm an
IOKA ambassador, so I love to raise money for them.
(50:09):
But yeah, this year, I decided to sign up for
the Coast Trip Walk, So I'm just doing the thirty
k's of the Sunny Coast Walk and part of that
is to take on some fundraising and I really like
the idea of giving people an experience rather than just
asking people to donate money, and so I'm very excited
(50:33):
about it. It's going to be on the fourth of
July this year, and we our MC is a gentleman
called called Mark mcconvill, who is, I believe Australia is
only a professional comedian with a master's in suicideology. So
I'm very excited about having Mark with us. Oh wow, Yeah,
(50:57):
a mutual friend introduced us. It turned out that we
had been at A and Sidon had been I'd spoken
at so I think we were always meant to connect.
But yeah, that's going to be so cool. So we
got Mark plus three comedians and yeah, that's gonna be
a hoot. So yeah, in the throes of organizing that,
and you know what I said about the you know,
(51:19):
challenges of business, and you know, earlier this year, I
had a few things fall over in the business, like
work that I thought was locked in, and you know,
various things happened, and so it ended up being quieter,
and I was in financial distress a little bit again,
and financial distress is one of my triggers. And so
(51:39):
I was actually really I was really happy with myself
that even though I had these challenges. I remember saying
to a couple of friends, like, I actually feel pretty good,
which is really interesting because you know, I probably you know,
could easily be panicking or worrying right now because it's
often quite well. It's generally quiet for me over December
(52:03):
and January because I work in the corporate market and
people don't train people at that time of the year.
And so you really have to have work in the
pipeline in the new year, and I thought I had
some and then that didn't happen. So you know, all
of a sudden, I've gone twelve weeks with very little income,
and so that was really quite challenging. But yeah, I actually,
(52:24):
you know, sort of put a few things in place
and feeling really good now and you know, just about
to find out if we've been successful getting onto a
government panel for well being services. So and even if
we don't get onto that, I'm actually really proud of
having made it this far because I know that we're
really really close, and it really just highlights that whole
(52:49):
you don't know what's around the corner, and you know
you mentioned earlier it might not be great what's around
the corner, but it can be equally just freaking fantastic too,
And you never know that unless you're hanging there and
see what's going to unfold, and it's that whole you know,
nothing's permanent, and so yeah, hoping we'll get onto this
(53:11):
government panel, you know, looking forward to doing more work
with organizations and my things training. I just love training people,
and I really feel passionate about every astray and having
the skill, the skills to recognize when they or somebody
else is struggling and be able to navigate that, you know,
(53:34):
navigate support, you know, whether it's for themselves or somebody else.
You know, how do we I think that's the only
way that we can really have a positive impact on
mental health and suicide rates in this country is by
help by developing these skills in our community.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
How can we find you? Follow you and get involved?
Speaker 3 (53:58):
Oh amazing? So linked it. People can search for me
on LinkedIn. I've got a website mentally Wealthy, which is
a bit of a play on words w ebl thy. Yeah,
and then yeah, I'm on Facebook as well, just in
my own name again. Yeah, so I regularly post on LinkedIn.
(54:20):
I run public mental health THEIRTH day courses. You know,
I'm all about that, you know, imparting these skills on people.
I work with organizations to help create mentally healthier workplaces
and you know, a big part of that is training
as potential solutions, but also looking at the bigger picture too,
because we can't just give people, you know, resilient skills
(54:44):
and then you know, just throw shit at them. And
you've got to look at the whole system of what's
going on too, right, So I don't think resilience is
the responsibility of an individual in the organization. I think
there's a joint responsibility. You know, it's a the organization
doing their part as well making sure that they're creating
(55:07):
a safe environment for their people.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
I love this chat. Thanks he.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
My pleasure. Tiff.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Yeah, no, I love what you're doing. I love what
you share, and I think your really important voice in
this space. So very my finger is a firmly crossed
for the government than canel. I hope you find yourself
on there. But whatever happens, I know that you're going
to make a difference, So keep on doing what you're doing. Donna,
thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (55:36):
Thanks a lot. TIF take care. If you or anyone
you know it is struggling, please reach out to Lifeline
on thirteen eleven fourteen, or speak to somebody in your life.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
She said, it's now and never.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Got a trip aquit the coast Garter to
Speaker 3 (56:04):
You the girls s got a lot of coast guard
to
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is Role with the Punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Please be aware that during this episode we do talk
about the topic of suicide. If you're feeling fragile today,
maybe it's worth holding off until you're feeling a little
bit better and able to engage with the content.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Doroth this await, Welcome to Roll with the Punches.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Thanks too great to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
How are you on this fine day up there in Queensland?
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Yeah, I'm traveling pretty well today. Actually all good for
me and I don't know, it's not quite it's not
quite warm here, but it's not that cold either, so I.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Feel I jumped on zoom last night and had a
chat to one of my good friends up in Queensland
who said, got mug boots on or got the blanky
on and she said, and it's still and it's twenty
seven degrees and I wanted to punch here in the face.
And so as you sit here today saying oh it's no, no, no, don,
(01:51):
I would not accept it. You are in paradise compared
to Melbourne's brutal rot that it calls weather.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, yeah, indeed, we definitely can't complain they're a bit
soft though, because we are used to the warmer weather. Right. Well,
this is the thing.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
And I've always said I'm from Australia, obviously, I'm from
Tazzy originally, and everyone always comes at me with it
each but eased of they're cold, and I'm like, yeah,
but I have I feel like Melbourne goes to the
extremes in summer and the extremes in winter, which gives
you no baseline to get comfortable with. It's like, it's
(02:27):
too bloody hot in summer, I can't cope, and then
it's too bloody cold in winter. I can't cope, and
I probably don't. I don't dress appropriately for either.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, I can always change in the course of the
day in Melbourne as well.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. Hey, would you like to
give a little intro to yourself, to myself and my audience?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Yeah, sure. So obviously I live in Brisbane. I have
my own business called Mentally Wealthy, and we provide training
solutions to organizations to help create mentally healthier workplaces. So
I've got a passion for mental health and resilience and
(03:13):
that really comes from my personal lived experience of having
a very significant mental health crisis. My story would have
actually featured on an episode of Australian Story which aired
in twenty seventeen, So I'm not sure if you knew that.
No I didn't.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I'm like, I'm going to have to go and watch
that now.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, it still is available via their website and they
did a wonderful job with it. So yeah, back in
twenty twelve, while I was working as a human resources professional,
I had a crisis of confidence, had an argument at
work with somebody and it sort of triggered a chain
reaction and yeah, unfortunately I started to be plagued by
(03:55):
really negative thoughts, and it all happened in a relatively
short time, sort of like seven to ten days. Having
said that, I think the cracks were always there, like
you know, like many people, I have some childhood trauma
and you know, other sort of adverse life events that
(04:16):
have obviously sort of affected my mental health. But generally
I was known as a really positive person, enthusiastic, happy,
go lucky, and nobody foresaw that I would actually get
to a point where I made an attempt on my life.
So it's really big things. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I listened to a little bit of like I said
to you before, just a little bit of a podcast
that you've done a few years ago talking about your experience,
and I really warmed to listening to it because it
sounded like a very unique and relatable version of events
(04:57):
that was just struck me as being so like ordinary
and inverted commas, Like you know, we think that there's
there's something I'm really big on this whole, like a
I don't know, I feel like I go for the
jugular on the whole, you know this or that kind
(05:17):
of attitude of giving answers. It's like, oh, well, this
is resilience, and it's like, no, maybe maybe that's resilience
and maybe it's dissociation. Like maybe Tip getting in the
boxing ring and fighting is is resilience and toughness, or
maybe it wasn't tough because she was. What she discovered
later is she was kind of just a little bit
(05:37):
dissociated in that environment, which was real strength in the
boxing ring. So that's maybe and maybe that's a good
thing in that environment if you're aware. So it's that
whole nuance around Yeah, but maybe.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Look, I think this topic is quite complex,
and you know, it's individuals are complex. People are human
are very complex, and so I personally don't think that
anyone is immune to a suicidal crisis. You just never
know what's going to happen in life. You know, we
(06:11):
get curveballs all the time, and you know, in my circumstances,
I often think of it now as like a perfect storm.
You know, this sort of collision of the challenge that
I had at work and my history and it just created, unfortunately,
quite a catastrophic situation and you know, may very well
(06:33):
have resulted in me no longer being around. So yeah,
thankfully that wasn't the outcome. Thankfully. I woke up in
hospital and very soon after came to the conclusion that
I must be meant to be here, and I became
(06:55):
very interested in why it happened, you know, how I
could avoid it happening again, and what I was going
to do next, because I thought, if this can happen
in my life, I think maybe I'm not on the
right path. And so I left my corporate job. Interestingly,
I set up my own business A sort of year
(07:18):
and a half later, I would say, so, I did
some additional studies, sort of transitioned from HR to being
a career coach, and yeah, set up my own business,
which I often marvel at because I think if anything
will test your mental health, it's running your own business.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, correct her.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, So to do that with Bragio mental health, I
think is quite interesting. But you know, mostly it's been good.
There's been a few little sort of challenges along the way,
but yeah, that's sort of where I went next. And
after seven years as a career coach, I had this
(07:59):
feeling I wanted to be one to many, not to
not one to one, and I became a mental health
estaid instructor and ultimately sort of four and a half
years ago, transition full time into mental health and resilience.
So we have sort of tailored programs. We have a
(08:21):
suite of programs for our clients. I don't do one
on one work. It's really sort of training and speaking,
and I love it and it feels like a way
to have transformed what was sort of one of my
biggest challenges into something that's helpful to other people.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, it's to think that in seven days, that an
experience can create an onset of a seven day turnaround
from being perceived mentally well and doing life to having
made an attempt on that life. Can you share a
(09:05):
little bit about the experience of that as much as
you'd a little or as much as you'd like to,
and that you'd think would be valuable.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah. Sure. So after that sort of incident at work
and having these sort of self doubts come up, like
I said, it sort of triggered this chain reaction. So
everything that I was sort of experiencing, I was seeing
through this lens of I'm not good enough, there's something
wrong with me, and that stuff had been there, but
(09:36):
I'd done years of psychotherapy. I thought that I put
it all to bed, but yeah, I just felt so
much doubt. I remember walking out of meetings and thinking, Oh,
they know you've got no idea what you're doing. I
was doing something new in the organization I worked for.
I was on a project and I was leading a
(09:56):
small team, which was the first time I'd done that
in that company, and I'd been there sixteen years at
the time. So yeah, this nagging doubt was just there,
and the voice got louder and louder, and you know,
it would have been great to reach out to somebody
and let them know what was going on, but I
(10:18):
felt if I did that that I would be broadcasting
that I was a failure and I just my ego whatever,
I could not cope with that. I just kept it
to myself. And yeah, like hid what was going on.
And at the time, my partner was away. He rarely
went away. I think it was he went on a
(10:38):
boys trip in his comby with a mate, and so
we're about four years into our relationship then, and I
didn't want to tell him what was going on because
he'd never really gone away on a trip before, and so,
you know, didn't want to spoil that for him, and
the leader that I had at the time, as she
was away overseas as well. So you know, I think
(11:00):
there were just these little things that you know, contributed
to that perfect storm, if you know what I mean. So, yeah,
just the voice was louder and louder, and I started
to think that I'll get sacked from work, which you know,
in hindsight, sixteen years in with a good performance record,
that was extremely unlikely. But you know, when we get
(11:22):
into this mindset, we're not rational, and so you know,
and the fact I wasn't talking to anyone about what
was going on, you know, then thoughts just got out
of control. And then like the thought of losing my job,
you know, I was just like, oh my god, I'm
going to be a terrible role model to my son.
(11:43):
He was only two at the time this happened. And
my partner had this property at townhouse when we met,
and not long before this, I talked him into refinancing
it to be better for our families' finances. And I
just thought, if I lose my job, we're going to
lose that house. And that was his townhouse and that
(12:05):
was his batchpad. So I just felt this high percent
of responsibility which is related to my childhood, and I
just felt like I was basically mucking everything up, and
so I just couldn't think of a way forward or
how to get myself out of the mess. And yeah,
(12:26):
I just in the end was like, I I can't
I can't handle this. I don't know how to fix it.
And I think the best solution would be that I'm
not here. My family will be better off without me.
And so yeah, Unfortunately, on the twelfth of August twenty twelve,
(12:46):
I made an attempt on my life. And as I said,
it's actually been featured in austraighted story, So maybe if
some of the listeners are interested, they could check that out. Yeah,
and thankfully I survived that experience, and I'm so grateful.
And I've actually had a second suicidal crisis that not
(13:09):
everybody knows about about two years ago and a bit
over two years ago, and it played out very differently
because last time I didn't speak to anybody, and this time,
you know, I talked to my partner about what I
was going through. I got in to see a psychologist.
I had friends around me that knew what was happening.
(13:31):
So I was talking about things and I got help,
and it never actually escalated to the point of me
making another attempt. I certainly had ideation, and it was
such an interesting experience because I didn't think it could
happen to me again, because you know, I work in
this space, and you know I've got such a really
(13:54):
solid resilience toolkit. Now, yeah, just didn't really didn't think
it was possible, and I actually felt quite this is
a strong web. But I felt disgusted in myself, to
be honest, I felt like, who am I that when
the going gets tough, I want to like exit stage left.
(14:17):
I was like, what is that? Like, where does that
come from?
Speaker 1 (14:21):
That?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I think that's appropriate of that my mind wants to
go there. And I did talk to the psychologist who
was treating me about that, and he said, it's sort
of like the ultimate escape fantasy. But you know, for
somebody like me, you know there's a real risk because
I had this previous attempt. So yeah, that was a
really interesting experience, and it was sort of nine weeks
(14:44):
of being in a really challenging place where I had
these thoughts just constantly plaguing me. And after nine weeks
I actually got to a point where I actually went
and had a coffee with a friend and she said,
how are you? What's been happening? And the time I'd
(15:07):
seen her last was just before i'd started to unravel,
and I shared with her what had been going on,
and she was really shocked and was like, oh, my goodness,
you know, I can't believe that. I wish you had
to call me all of that stuff. Thankfully, I was
speaking to some friends, but after we met, I realized
(15:31):
that I'd gone to that coffee catch up feeling okay,
like feeling well enough that day, but when I left,
I actually felt really down again, and I felt like
I felt almost like hopeless again. And I was like, wow,
like that's a really interesting energy. How did I go
(15:54):
from where I was to that? And I sort of
realized that by talking about it, it was like I
dropped back into the energy almost like I was, you know,
marinating in that again. And I was just like, wow,
like this isn't how I want to feel at all?
(16:15):
How do I want to feel? And so I really
started to think about reflect on, you know, what is
it I want? What is it I want to feel?
What is it I want to exist in my life?
And I thought you know, I want my phone to
ring for my business. You know, I want to feel joyful,
(16:39):
and you know I want to feel connected. And so
I really just sort of channeled this sort of feeling
and thought, right, I don't have to talk to everybody
about what's going on. I'm already getting professional help. I've
got a handful of friends that I'm speaking to. I
don't actually think it's serving me to just keep going
(17:01):
over what has been going on in my brain and
my life the past sort of a couple of months.
And so, yeah, it was just this moment of Nope,
this is I'm going to step into what it is
that I actually want to feel. And from that point
I was able to just turn things around again, which
was pretty Yeah, felt great.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Wow, thank you for sharing that when you what I
was going to ask, And I guess it applies to
both scenarios, but especially that first one where you woke
up in hospital. What was what did it feel like?
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Or what?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
How do you grasp a sense of self when when
a part of you has taken the wheel and acted
not in your best interests in it? So, like, how
do we separate the emotion and the actions and the
decisions from the person that's experiencing that, because I think
that's the hardest part for people is like I do
(18:02):
this action, but I want to live and I just
want to like it. And for those of us who
haven't experienced that, it's it's like, how do we get
a grasp of the understanding on that.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, right when I woke up in the hospital, like
it just felt surreal, I actually lost a lot of time.
So I've got a black spot in terms of what
happened on that afternoon. I knew, you know, what I
(18:36):
had done, but yeah, like I said, that was a
black spot. And so I woke up like really disoriented.
You know, I didn't know where I was, felt really
hot and uncomfortable. It had had these hypothermia blankets on me,
and I was in like the er and you know,
there's really bright lights. My mother in law was there
(18:59):
in my partner, and so I was really shocked because
it wasn't the outcome I expected. And so yeah, once
I sort of worked out what had gone on, Yeah,
I just sort of process that, and as I said,
fortunately for me, I thought I must be meant to
be here, because I don't think that is the conclusion
(19:22):
for everybody.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I've certainly heard of people saying, oh my gosh, I've
failed at that as well. Thankfully that wasn't the reaction
that happened for me. But yeah, it was really difficult
to sort of process that I had that I had
done this, that I, you know, had taken that sort
of action, because, like I said, I was a sort
(19:45):
of person that no one would think would do that,
including me, including me, you know, just like you know,
really happy person, positive, cheerful, you know, people would say
to me when I was young and even as an adult,
like I want whatever you're on, you know, and that
wasn't a mask, that is my disposition. But it seems
(20:09):
that sometimes I I can just experience such incredible self
doubt and shame. I think shame's a really big part
of all of this. Shame is huge. I think it's
(20:30):
definitely something that can put people at risk of suicide. Shame,
and so yeah, it's yeah, it wasn't a difficult. It
wasn't an easy situation to reconcile at all. And I
think like from both of those experiences, one of the
(20:52):
biggest takeaways is really just that it's not the answer.
It's never the answer, and that we are always changing
and our circumstances are always changing as well, and so
it's just so important that we can like hang on
and hang in there and that the people around us
(21:14):
have some idea how to support us if we're having
sort of suicidal thoughts or even just experiencing mental health problems,
because you know, that's the start of it usually, and
so you know, letting people know that it's temporary, that
(21:35):
all of that feelings are temporary.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I wrote down before when you were talking, I wrote
down what's holding me together? And because I was thinking
of like that understanding of what are the things that
are holding us together that when and we may not
be aware of it, but when they a few of
those links disappear in a moment like the perfect storm
(22:01):
you described, that we then end up like hanging in
another space momentarily. It's and it's it just makes me
kind of also think about that, reflecting on what you know,
the difference between coping mechanisms and how much and I
(22:23):
guess it's more of the for me, the awareness of them.
Are we aware of how we're coping? And coping is
not a bad thing or a good thing. It's just
a thing, and there's you know, there's a continuum, and
there's a level of coping we just have to do
in life, and there's also a level of maybe self
exploration or healing or whatever our journey, for lack of
(22:44):
a better word requires. What do you have any thoughts
on those types of things? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Sure, Look, I think ideally we want to thrive. We
want to spend as much time as we can thriving.
And I think you're absolutely right self awareness is part
of that and healing because we all have some form
of trauma, right. I remember years ago I was at
(23:15):
like a it was like a personal growth sort of experience.
We sort of sat in circle for a few days
and everyone was sort of addressing their stuff, so to speak.
And I met this beautiful girl there who was much
younger than me, and I gave her a lift after
the retreat. And during the retreat, I realized that she
(23:40):
had had, you know, some pretty challenging childhood experiences. And
I said, oh my gosh, I just feel so sad
that you had to go through that. You know, it
just doesn't seem fair, you know, the way life happens sometimes.
And she said to me, Donna you know, we've all
(24:03):
got trauma, right, like, you know, it's not a matter
of my trauma's bigger than your trauma. And she said, look,
if you've led this charmed life, you know, your first
relationship breakup can be your trauma. You know, like it's
it's about how we respond to this stuff and how
(24:25):
we feel about this stuff and the messages we take
from it and everything and so and the baggage that
we take forward from those experiences. And what she said
really resonated with me. You know, I think that there
are a lot of people walking around in our communities
that have trauma. There are a lot of people with shame,
and a lot of people don't know what to do
(24:46):
with this stuff, you know, and so yeah, I think
all of that can put us at risk of mental
health problems. And you know, in terms of that, you know,
spectrum of coping. You know, coping is this great and
it's a it's partly you know what resilience is our
ability to cope with the challenges of life. But sometimes
(25:08):
that coping can be adaptive, you know, like having practices
like breathing, you know, techniques. I'm a cyclist, riding my
bicycle is my happy place. I would do and even
if it wasn't good for you, because it makes me
so happy, right, And so that's obviously adaptive, you know,
going to the gym, you know, eating nutrition, nutritious food.
(25:32):
But then lots of us have maladaptive strategies, so you know,
obviously drinking could be one of those, or drinking excessively
eating you know, food. For many of us, we have
an interesting relationship with food. It's comfort, you know, the
same you know, it could be said for even TV.
(25:53):
And so it's sort of like, what what are we
getting from this experience? You know, because often we're just numbing,
you know, it's a coping strategy of just not feeling
that emptiness inside or you know, the negative self talk
or you know, the racing thoughts, all of that stuff.
(26:15):
So you know, I like to think that I have
really good resilience practices now, but you know, two years
ago that wasn't even enough to stop me from having
suicidal thoughts again. And so I really love the statement
(26:38):
that resilience is a state, it's not a trait. And
so you know, it's something that we can build, but
you know, there are times when it can be really
tested if we have new challenges in our life, you know,
if we're things are rocky with our relationship, or you know,
(26:58):
we've just start a new job, or oh my gosh,
you've just had a baby. We do you might need
some additional or different resilience practices right now, you know. Yeah,
does that answer the question, do you think?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Tiv Yeah, one hundred percent. And it touches on another thing.
I rant and rave about a lot, which is the
you know, like the how to build resilience and it
people it's such a selling point to carry on about
doing the hard things. Yeah, you know, go do a
(27:32):
hard workout, Go get in a cold fucking shower, go
and do the Go do a marathon, Go push yourself,
push yourself pushes like without context. Like sometimes people's hard
thing is actually the easy thing that lets them run
from the thing that's really hard. Like it's not about
the hard thing. It's about the thing you don't want
(27:54):
to do or the thing that you're trying to avoid.
But that just gets left out of the conversation because
it's not sex and you can't sell that. Yeah, and yeah,
I just think that you touched on that perfectly.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Then Yeah, that's a really good point what you just raised, right,
because like I used to just have this history of
trying to prove myself because I always thought there was
something wrong with me.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
So I went to UNI as a mature aid student,
you know, set myself a goal of you know, getting
the Chairman's Award or whatever. You know, it just worked
so hard, practically got Stevens. You know, like my GPA
was six point two and then you know, I rode
from Sydney to the Gold Coast twice. I've done the
(28:41):
Kokoda track and your guinea. It was like I was
always trying to prove to myself and to other people
that I was okay. So yeah, I agree with what
you're saying. Sometimes we're running from things or I guess
it comes from it relates to where is this coming from?
Is this coming from or is it coming from love
(29:02):
or you know some other positive sort of emotion.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, Like for me, being still is harder than being
busy and do it. Like getting in the boxing ring
that was easy. Like I remember in my early thirties
when I just started boxing and you know, i'd had
one or two fights and early thirties, so you know,
you're not twenty anymore, and it was like, sometimes I
(29:28):
get home from work. I've got a full time job,
and I'm like, really, just I'm too tired. I'd probably
show a day off. I'll just I'll just go for
a walk. And the overwhelming sense of dread and loneliness
would overcome me on a walk and I would be like,
(29:49):
what the F is this? Like what is this? Because
being still and quiet gave me that space. But I
just hadn't needed to do that before, because I spent
my younger years just go, go go, I'll just keep
I'll just do something different. I'll just show you so
that I can believe it myself, how tough and independent
and bloody brilliant I am totally tiff.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
You know that resonates completely with me, but I think
it will with lots of your listeners too, you know,
if they actually stop and think about it. You know,
often we're just you know, I mentioned the numbing sort
of activities we engage in that being busy is absolutely
one of them as well. Yeah, yeah, we're just on
(30:32):
that hamster well because it's a little scary when you stop,
you know, and you have space.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, and I'm sure you're the same, like you've you've
jumped into this area of having a business to make
a difference. So a business where you're you're learning and
you're improving and then you're passing on that knowledge and
it's fascinating. And that's a bit like what this podcast
was for me. It was like, how who could I
talk to to learn and share the learning and figure
(30:59):
it out? How comes? Some people get punched in the
face and they rise, and some people get punched in
the face and they fall, And you know it was
I was talking to one of my close friends recently
and I was like, you know, I tell that story.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
I just told you.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Then I tell that as a story where I, you know,
I'm walking along since killed a road and I'm burst
into tears and I feel those feelings and I'm like,
what the hell?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
You know?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I'm too what is this? And there's been moments this
year that I have a smaller but a familiar experience
where I stop the race and I just go how
can I It's a decade on and I've told that
story for a decade, and I've made changes, and I've
(31:44):
done healing and I've worked on myself and I've figured
stuff out and then there'll be a moment and I'm like,
that's familiar. We're still We're still here at times, bloody hell.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
It's frustrating sometimes.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, yeah, it's like you know that self awareness is
brilliant and incredibly frustrating as well, because like once you
open that box, once you peel that layer back, you
can't put that layer back on and go back to
your blissful ignorance. It's like, oh, we know what's under
the hood now, Yeah, there's no option but to do
(32:24):
the work, you know.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
And such a big fan of the saying we know better,
we do better as well, it's like it almost feels
like an obligation now we know, you know, yeah, we
address this.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah. I also think it's really beautiful. Like I think
of watching the world want to, you know, falling into
what we we tend to seek or believe or do,
and that is that overwhelming sense of I just have
to get through this so that life can be better.
(33:00):
But actually I've said this a lot now, it's like, actually,
little do I know, maybe today's the very best circumstances
that I'm ever going to have in my life, and
maybe like a moment before something unfolding or me learning
something that's going to challenge me, and how much of
(33:23):
our lives do we miss being grateful for the now
it's always I've just got to get through this and
to get to the good part of my life where
everything's easy and feels good. And it's like, no, because
feeling good is relative.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah, yeah, it's not a destination, right, We've got to
be able to incorporate it into the journey.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, nothing that's bad ever stays as bad as it was,
but neither there's any of the good stuff. And it's like, oh, well,
better just get good enjoying now, I better just get
good at being present. Yes, what are some of the
what are some of the things that maybe you learned
(34:06):
or implemented along the way that were quite pivotal for
you personally?
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Yeah, okay, gratitude is definitely one of them. A massive
fan of gratitude. It's got a great evidence base. Now,
But I've had a practice that's been going on for
seven years and it consists of me and at the
moment there's three of us at one stage that used
(34:32):
to be four of us, and we text three things
that we're grateful for every day. So I think five
is a great maximum number to have in this sort
of practice, because you've got to read everyone's gratitudes every day.
But yeah, it blew me away. I heard about this
practice from a woman called Pam Grout who was interviewed
on a podcast I've listened to, and she's got a
(34:56):
great little book called Sank and Grow Rich, and so
she called them her power Posse, her little gratitude group.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
And so that wasn't pussy, was it was possy because
that could mean very different things.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, so when I heard about it, I was like,
oh gosh, I want some of that. So I asked
a friend if she'd liked to do it with me,
and so started with two of us, and then we
decided to invite some like a mutual friend, and then
we sort of ultimately grew it to five. And so
either on the actual day in the evening we text
(35:37):
three things were grateful for, or the next morning for
the day before. And what I love about it is
you have accountability. People are expecting to receive your gratitude.
You get a reminder when theirs comes in. Because I
would often write it in a journal and forget when
I went to bed, remember when I went to bed.
But what I think is one of its most amazing benefits.
(36:01):
And as far as I recall, you know, Pam didn't
speak about this, but you actually get to vicariously live
the joy of other people in the group. And that
just blew my mind because it's like you're witnessing other
people's lives. And as you can appreciate, in seven years,
a lot has happened in all of our lives. You know,
(36:22):
someone fell in love for the first time. You know,
one of our members lost her husband. You know, a grandchild.
All of this stuff. I mean, they're the big things,
but honestly, it's about the little things. You know. It's
about for me, exchanging a smile in the supermarket, someone
letting me in the traffic. You know, my son and
(36:44):
I am solving a problem last night. He's got a
part time job at macas and we couldn't get the
act to work and we solved that. And so, you know,
it's these little things, but savoring those things actually helps
your mindset. I love the saying every day is not good,
but there is good in every day, and so we've
(37:06):
got that part of our brain called the rats or
the articular activating system and it tunes into whatever we
pay attention to. So when you see the good, you
see more good and so you know, that is so
amazing for our mental health and well being. So that's
been a really big one.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
I'm going to implement that. I'm going to get the
power posey. I love it. One of my favorite practices
is I can't remember which podcast or book or who
said it. Now, I think you might have been doctor
Daniel Aim and for some reason, he's hopping into my
head what went well today? And it's a version of
gratitude practice, but without without calling it that, and it
(37:48):
was just it was beautiful because it was it was
like sneaky gratitude. It wasn't looking for hunting for it.
It was like, you know what, like you don't even
have to feel thankful, just what went well. And for
me it was it was a double whemmy because it
highlighted productivity when we're so prone to focus on all
the things we didn't do. Yeah, I'm so behind, I'm
(38:10):
so behind, and that's I would write some of the things.
I'm like, shit, I did all that that I'm grateful for,
and look at all this fun stuff that tumbled out
of my head as well.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
It's amazing, awesome, that's a great practice.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yeah, yeah, what else have you got that I can?
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I mentioned cycling. You know, I call it your thing.
So whatever your thing is. You know, I've got a
friend who it's building model airplanes. You know, it can
be golf, it can be near dancing, and you know,
I say to people, look, if you don't know what
it is like, just be curious and you know, go
out and try new things because when you find it,
(38:49):
if it was your cubs so beautifully, you know, I
say to people, you know you'll recognize it when you know,
like five hours will feel like fifteen minutes doing it
because you're so in the zone. You know, you lose
you lose that sort of concept of time because you're
(39:10):
just loving what you're doing. But afterwards you feel energized.
You know, you feel good. It makes you feel joyful.
So cycling is a big one for me. So back
when I have my mental health crisis, I had stopped cycling.
As I said, I had a two year old and
it took me seven years to get back on the bike.
And a coach saying to me, wow, you light up
when you do that, Like, why aren't you doing it?
(39:33):
And I said, well, because I've got this little child,
and you know, it's really hard. My partner starts work
at he leaves for work at twenty past five, you know,
five six days a week actually, and he was like,
you need to find a way, and so I did.
I asked my mother in lawa if my son could
(39:54):
sleep over one night a week so I could get
off and cycle on Friday mornings. And he did that
for a couple of years. Nowadays, he's just about to
turn fifteen, so I can leave him at home by himself.
But I still cycle. You know, I've been back on
it sort of seven or eight years and I can't
give it up. But even when I had that crisis
a couple of years ago, I didn't stop cycling. I
(40:17):
stopped riding with my usual group because I got sick
of everyone saying, gee, John, know what's wrong. You're not yourself.
We're so used to laughing the whole ride, and I
was a bit like, oh, I just don't want to
talk about what's happening, and so I just rode by myself.
I went and rode up Mount Kuther a little so
the hill. We got here, you know, on Sundays by myself,
(40:40):
you know, And then I shared with a friend what
was going on, and her and I rode while she
was sort of trying to get back into cycling. And so, yeah, look,
whatever their thing is, whatever your thing is, but we
must have a thing. And I think it can be
useful to think back to childhood too, what brought you
joy as a little person, you know what, because I
think it can give us some real clues. You know,
(41:01):
maybe it was maybe it was bike riding, you know,
maybe it was doing some rowing at school, or you know,
all sorts of different activities. It's about reconnecting with that.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, I reckon also doing the thing, about doing things
that are not my usual thing, like doing things unlike me.
Once upon a time, boxing was not me, wasn't the
thing I did, and then it become my greatest love.
This year, I bought a digital piano. I was like,
what's something that I can spend my time doing that's
(41:35):
hard to learn, that takes dedication, that gives me mindfulness
and creativity, but is nothing like me or any of
the people that I'm hanging out with. And I was like,
fucking yeah, one of those awesome.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, and you find pieces of yourself. I think we
developed identities that are just a facad. I went to
India last year and I couldn't wait to see who
was underneath all of the parts of me that were
just consumed by Tiff the boxer, Tiff the podcast, a
tip in the gym, the gym chick, the fit chick,
the chick that's always in a muscle tea. It was like,
(42:11):
I don't want to be in a muscle tea with
roll with the punch is written on it. I want
to be on a mountain with people that are that
are not like the people I hang out with every
day and see who I am underneath all that, because
I'm someone different and all those other parts and me
got left behind somewhere.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, And that really is getting
into your anu layers tips. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
I remember being in that space and having the epiphany
that's like, I've only been a boxer for ten of
my forty two years or twelve of my forty two
years or whatever it is now. Yeah, and I've only
been a podcaster for five of them, so that's like
thirty over thirty five or thirty eight or whatever the
(42:55):
years that I wasn't that yet. I cling to these
things with white knuckles, like, well, this is who I am. No,
that's who you've shown the world you are, that's who
that's who they reflect back to you. But who actually
are you? There's so much more like you could be
anyone anywhere.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Absolutely. I was in a career coaching workshop years ago
and the facilitator of that program, he's quite well known
in like sort of career coaching academically and practically, and
he said, he asked us, did we think we knew ourselves?
(43:41):
And we had to put up a hand if we
think thought we did, and I put my hand up.
This would have been probably twelve years ago, and he
really challenged us on it, and it made sense, like
he's like, you haven't been in every situation in life
to know how you would respond to different circumstances. And
(44:06):
it really does make sense. You know, we think we
know each other, but we haven't lost a child, you know,
touch woods, you know we haven't. We haven't been in
some circumstances, many circumstances, you know that we would never
know how we would respond to those situations. So yeah,
it makes so much sense to me and what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
It's one of the things I loved about that, especially
that first one. That experience in the boxing ring is
I met a version of me that I never knew existed.
You can't pretend, you can't pretend in that situation. You
just respond and then you're left with the reality, not
the story. And I've told stories for years. Oh look
(44:46):
at the fucking story. Like, we have emotions and then
we act on them, and then we tell the most
comfortable version of story that fits that that we can
sit with. And it's like, Nope, in the ring, you
a punch comes at your face and you either punch
back or you cower, and that it's one to the other.
And there's no telling a bloody story because everyone can
(45:08):
see it, and so you have to and then if
you want to change it or you've got a lot
of work to do, you've got a lot of and
you've got to walk in and do that work in
the hard place. Yeah, like it's bloody awesome. I love it.
I miss it. I miss I miss daily punches in
the face.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Oh gosh, I's still be a massive Muhammad Ali fan.
When I was a kid, I just loved him so much,
and my dad used to get us to like wrestle
and box each other, my younger sister and I. So yeah,
I'm surprised, surprised that I didn't pursue a career in boxing,
because yeah, I've always been quite physical. But as an
adult now, I I've really reflected on the fact that
(45:53):
I actually think that I was like emotionally, like quite immature.
I had no ability to express myself except physically, so
I would punch boys and I never punched girls. I
would only ever punch boys. But yeah, I was very
(46:14):
physical except for my sister and my dad had us
in the boxing room, right, but he used to make
me get down on my knees because she was shorter
than me. But then when I was on my knees,
it was this, it was like the opposite.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
She was.
Speaker 3 (46:30):
Carrying the same height difference but reversed and I was disadvantaged.
So yeah, I think, you know, for some people without
like you know, that ability to express you know, we
can have some dysfunctional ways of doing that. And yeah,
(46:52):
I'm not I don't punch people now, but even as
like an eighteen year old and stuff. If I was
talking to a guy and he said something, I would often,
you know, just swing a hand at them or whatever.
So yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Yeah, it's a beautiful sport and it's one of my
favorite things is introducing women to it that have never
done anything remotely physical like that with their body, and
you teach them the technique behind throwing a punch, so
they end up so fully in their body right. It's
(47:27):
you get an awareness on how you're where, you're feeling
things and feeling your body in a different way, and
then you're using it to exert power and it's visceral
like you. I can see the emotion come over them
and it's the best ever because I know it because
I because.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
I lived it.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
And I'm like, you've never done this before, You've never
had you never knew your body could do this and
that you were allowed to, and you've probably never tapped
in and felt what it's like to be and your
body like that. So good, get in the ring, sister.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Well, you know how I said I had the seven
years off cycling. I did a boxing class for that
seven years. It was like a boxing circuit class. We
went each other. There's pads, and stuff. But I loved it.
And the only reason I stopped was because it was
a Saturday morning class and I cycle on Sundays, and
I found it was like wasting my legs, wrecking my legs.
(48:25):
I was like, all right, I've got priorities here, right,
We've still got a bit of leg work back then.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Oh that's so good.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Well, you know what you were just saying about that
being in your body. You know that so many of
us struggle to me and our bodies, So you know,
that's really amazing to hear that. That's you know, it
comes with that experience. So yeah, yeah, Colas could use
more of that in our lives.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Yeah. For me, I feel that looking back it it
brought me into my boy and it invited me to
feel first physically and then beneath that came up a
bunch of emotion and then took me back into childhood
ship that I thought i'd safely tucked away. And I
(49:16):
was like, what's we left that behind? Like, that's a
that's in a box that says do not open in
the back of my mind. And you know, that's when
I realized, you can't just you can't. Can't you can't
hold silence and shame inside of you and just move
on from it. You have to process it. And Boxing
(49:37):
asked me to do that and it was beautiful.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
What a gift.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Love's amazing. That's amazing. What's next for you, Donna?
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Ah, yeah, great question. Well right now, I'm in the
midst of organizing a fundraising comedy event, so yeah, I'm
excited about that. I've on a few men's mental health
events and raise money for mental health charities. I'm an
IOKA ambassador, so I love to raise money for them.
(50:09):
But yeah, this year, I decided to sign up for
the Coast Trip Walk, So I'm just doing the thirty
k's of the Sunny Coast Walk and part of that
is to take on some fundraising and I really like
the idea of giving people an experience rather than just
asking people to donate money, and so I'm very excited
(50:33):
about it. It's going to be on the fourth of
July this year, and we our MC is a gentleman
called called Mark mcconvill, who is, I believe Australia is
only a professional comedian with a master's in suicideology. So
I'm very excited about having Mark with us. Oh wow, Yeah,
(50:57):
a mutual friend introduced us. It turned out that we
had been at A and Sidon had been I'd spoken
at so I think we were always meant to connect.
But yeah, that's going to be so cool. So we
got Mark plus three comedians and yeah, that's gonna be
a hoot. So yeah, in the throes of organizing that,
and you know what I said about the you know,
(51:19):
challenges of business, and you know, earlier this year, I
had a few things fall over in the business, like
work that I thought was locked in, and you know,
various things happened, and so it ended up being quieter,
and I was in financial distress a little bit again,
and financial distress is one of my triggers. And so
(51:39):
I was actually really I was really happy with myself
that even though I had these challenges. I remember saying
to a couple of friends, like, I actually feel pretty good,
which is really interesting because you know, I probably you know,
could easily be panicking or worrying right now because it's
often quite well. It's generally quiet for me over December
(52:03):
and January because I work in the corporate market and
people don't train people at that time of the year.
And so you really have to have work in the
pipeline in the new year, and I thought I had
some and then that didn't happen. So you know, all
of a sudden, I've gone twelve weeks with very little income,
and so that was really quite challenging. But yeah, I actually,
(52:24):
you know, sort of put a few things in place
and feeling really good now and you know, just about
to find out if we've been successful getting onto a
government panel for well being services. So and even if
we don't get onto that, I'm actually really proud of
having made it this far because I know that we're
really really close, and it really just highlights that whole
(52:49):
you don't know what's around the corner, and you know
you mentioned earlier it might not be great what's around
the corner, but it can be equally just freaking fantastic too,
And you never know that unless you're hanging there and
see what's going to unfold, and it's that whole you know,
nothing's permanent, and so yeah, hoping we'll get onto this
(53:11):
government panel, you know, looking forward to doing more work
with organizations and my things training. I just love training people,
and I really feel passionate about every astray and having
the skill, the skills to recognize when they or somebody
else is struggling and be able to navigate that, you know,
(53:34):
navigate support, you know, whether it's for themselves or somebody else.
You know, how do we I think that's the only
way that we can really have a positive impact on
mental health and suicide rates in this country is by
help by developing these skills in our community.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
How can we find you? Follow you and get involved?
Speaker 3 (53:58):
Oh amazing? So linked it. People can search for me
on LinkedIn. I've got a website mentally Wealthy, which is
a bit of a play on words w ebl thy. Yeah,
and then yeah, I'm on Facebook as well, just in
my own name again. Yeah, so I regularly post on LinkedIn.
(54:20):
I run public mental health THEIRTH day courses. You know,
I'm all about that, you know, imparting these skills on people.
I work with organizations to help create mentally healthier workplaces
and you know, a big part of that is training
as potential solutions, but also looking at the bigger picture too,
because we can't just give people, you know, resilient skills
(54:44):
and then you know, just throw shit at them. And
you've got to look at the whole system of what's
going on too, right, So I don't think resilience is
the responsibility of an individual in the organization. I think
there's a joint responsibility. You know, it's a the organization
doing their part as well making sure that they're creating
(55:07):
a safe environment for their people.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
I love this chat. Thanks he.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
My pleasure. Tiff.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Yeah, no, I love what you're doing. I love what
you share, and I think your really important voice in
this space. So very my finger is a firmly crossed
for the government than canel. I hope you find yourself
on there. But whatever happens, I know that you're going
to make a difference, So keep on doing what you're doing. Donna,
thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (55:36):
Thanks a lot. TIF take care. If you or anyone
you know it is struggling, please reach out to Lifeline
on thirteen eleven fourteen, or speak to somebody in your life.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
She said, it's now and never.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Got a trip aquit the coast Garter to
Speaker 3 (56:04):
You the girls s got a lot of coast guard
to
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com