November 9, 2025 • 48 mins
As my feet begin to hit the ground after last week's speaking event I landed in this very human chat on resilience, the kind you actually feel in your bones, with Harps. We opened with the usual chaos, long nails, zero filters, and shenanigans... and from there we went straight into the good stuff. We talked about walking your talk when life is messy, why personal development isn’t a brand but a practice, and how sometimes life is just a total you-know-what and you still need to show up for an hour and be amazing. I shared the behind the scenes on my keynote build, the resistance (oh yeah, there was plenty of that), the almost pull-out, and the moment it all clicked. We swapped stories on freezing, failing, riding the wave anyway, and choosing the room that grows you, not the room that claps for you. It’s raw, honest, and actually useful.
SPONSORED BY TESTART FAMILY LAWYERS
Website: testartfamilylawyers.com.au
TIFFANEE COOK
Linktree: linktr.ee/rollwiththepunches
Website: tiffcook.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is role with the punches, and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com, dot au.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Ogay a TIV. Welcome Mar to the You Project, Tiffany
and Cook and everyone else. Before you say anything, why
why am in an a different virtual room? Because I'm
out of fancy.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
We've leveled up with fancy. We're on riverside. Look at this.
Look how fancy he is? Even get a countdown when
I press record? Isn't it fancy?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
It's too fancy for me? I don't you know. I
don't like change. I don't play well with others and
I don't like change.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
That's what. That's why I thought I'd throw this one
to you, just to keep you on your toes, just
to keep you growing and evolving and learning and doing
all the Craig harperisms that you teach all of us to.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I don't know how to deal. So everyone, what I'm
normally looking at is I'm normally looking at a virtual
studio that I'm in and it's all razzle dazzle, and
it's on zoom and it's beautiful. I know exactly what's
going on. And Tiff and I are recording, and she
sent me a link to something different, and I'm looking
at I'm just looking at me, sitting in my messy
office with shit written on the whiteboard behind me. I
(01:52):
don't have a filter on my face, so I look
every one of my fucking sixty two years. I look
like someone's granddad lost in a fucking podcast studio. I
like the one where I look prettier and younger. Can
we make that happen?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think you look fabulous. Are you a bit thrown
by my long acrylic nails as well? That's thrown me
for what is to.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Go with that? Can you post a photo of those?
Because I mean, I'm not being offensive or inappropriate. When
I say you are thirty percent male, I think it's
probably more you claim a mere thirty percent. I'm I
think you're a hybrid man woman, and I mean that
in the nicest way, because you've got traps coming out
(02:37):
of your ears and it don't dealt for fucking days.
Am I allowed to keep going because there's.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
More larious fabulous? It makes me happy?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
No, I think I know you would laugh, but I
know there won't be people that will laugh. But I'll
tell you off air because the next one was going
to be a fucking zinger, a complete fucking you would
have loved it. But three people write and tell me
how offensive and inappropriate and politically and correct I am.
And to those three people, fuck you. So no, I
(03:11):
mean that, no money kidding, but it is. It is.
It has thrown me a little bit because I'm not
used to looking at this. But anyway, Ah tell everyone.
So you've been in Queensland. You had this thing. I
know all your people know, but my people don't know.
So you've got this opportunity to speak at this event,
which did a good give us the snapshot before we
(03:34):
dive into our which we may not even get to
our fucking topic, because that is generally the way to you.
I guess my long winded point is you and long
girly nails, and God bless her. It's kind of like
me in a fucking tutu. It just messes with my head.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Me too. And I asked three times for short, straight nails,
and she just looked at me and went, women and
your deal, your deal. She would not listen and she
laughed at me. I was like, bro, I can't ride
my motorcycle with nails like this. She said, your deal?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Are you inferring that the lady who did your nails?
Was it a lady or a man?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Or?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
It was a lady, right, just checking? Are you inferring
one that she was Asian?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Because if anyone, if anyone has seen the real most
people will know this when I say it, and someone
will be like, what are you talking about? If everyone
knows the real the comedy reel, I can't remember the
chick's name, but she does a thing about the nail
so on and she's like, do you like grittel joll.
Everyone knows that this was a version of that cheek.
(04:43):
She was so funny, but she would not give me
what I wanted, and she upsold me, and she did
the opposite of what I asked for, And now I'm
stuck with these long roll with the punched colors, Roll
with the punches colored. Get your words right.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Fingernails, Well, they are very glamorous. But when I think
of glamorous, with all due respect, you don't fucking spring
to mind. When I think of you, I think more like,
like those nails are like, uh, you know, Porsche nine
to eleven. You're more like Ford F one fifty pickup truck.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Like that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You know that.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I don't mind that. I don't mind that that help
me stand out on the week on the week.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
To me, what's tiff like? I say, robust, Jez, robust? Yeah,
So if glamorous is one end of the scale and
robust is the other, you're up that end.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I'm exactly where I want to be. Then, thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
No, you're welcome, You're welcome. I reckon, I'm closer to
the glamor and than you.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Some of these nails on and you're going to own it.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
That lady that you were talking about, the Asian lady
who was impersonating, and so she's an Asian comedian who
was impersonating and.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
She's not Asian. I think she might be.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
No, I think she isn't. Is she the one that
said you so pretty? Why you not have boyfriend? Yeah?
Now I'm going to get in. I'm just saying what
she said, So don't yell at me. Yeah, it's funny,
very funny. How do people find that? If they want
to find that? Could they? They could go to YouTube
(06:34):
like Lady Nail Lady comedian.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Jail Crystal jel Nail comedy. All right, that'll bring it
up and I will find it and put it in
the typ Facebook group.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
So how did you go? So you were because you
were having, at various stages a little fucking tanty and
emotional kind of periodic meltdown because I understand you, well,
you who is like a dog with a metaphoric dog
with three dicks, and you just like to wander and
(07:07):
go wherever you want to go. But you you have
been working in part of this program to be trained
in a certain particular way of presenting in a certain model.
And let's just say that initially you and it weren't
a great fit, or you didn't think you were, because
you're like, fuck rules. I don't like rules, sticking rules
(07:28):
up your ass, and they're like, well, you actually enrolled
in this program. That's like me going to do a
PhD G and by the way, I'll do it however
I want fuck your system. I don't care about I
don't care about the PhD rules. Fuck it. Yeah, so
how did you go with that? Because I when you
(07:50):
started that and I figured out that it was so
Tiff was doing a correct me if I get anything wrong.
So you're doing a like a speaking speaker's development kind
of process program with other people. What's the lady's name
who led it, We may as well give her a
fucking shout at what's.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Her name, Jacqueline Jacqueline Brooker. She deserves it. She's she's
uh put up with me for a long time now,
so she deserves a shout out.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Is it fair that to say that you crack the
shits at her a little bit?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I look yet internally, yeah, I was, I was. I
think I used the word petulant with you the other day.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I was.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I tried to keep it all internal, but you know,
I'm not good at that. So when there's internal angst,
everybody involved feels it.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
What did you So, what did you learn about stepping
out of the tiff model, which is like essentially no model,
it's just like free range chicken and being kind of
channeled into a particular way of doing something, not forever
but for a period of time. What did you What
were the what were the positives? What were the lessons
(08:56):
out of it?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, what was interesting, ironic and beneficial and valuable was
that almost every component of the keynote I put together
that I was teaching about lessons that I have learned
or value had to be applied. I had to apply.
(09:18):
I was applying them, managing my emotions, dealing within a critic,
looking at my programming and my ability to control what
was what I could control, and get uncomfortable, and be
honest about what challenges me, and be honest about my
(09:42):
perception versus reality. Like all of this stuff is are
things that I talk about inside the keynote, and in
the middle of it, I'm challenged by them because that's
the nature of the work. We do right, and we
do the work that we need to do, like we
end up I think we end up teaching what we
need to learn or what we've needed to learn.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
And I think, like I've said to you a few times,
when a few things in your life are going not great,
I'm like, this is when all of the stuff that
we talk about actually matters right now, when things are shit,
when things are uncomfortable and unfamiliar and uncertain and unpleasant,
and it's like, now is when you need to be
able to walk the talk that you've been talking. Otherwise
(10:28):
it's just fucking window dressing for a life that's really
kind of not representative of the person that we are publicly,
and that is you know, for me, that is why
it's personal development. It's not a product or a brand
or a book or a podcast or a presentation. Like
personal development is literally a messy, uncomfortable motherfucker of a
(10:50):
process that we go through. Or don't you know? Self
help is literally for me helping yourself, you know. And yes,
there are going to be kind of resources and videos
and books and all of those things in your proximity perhaps,
but that kind of when you turn it from a
noun into a verb, like a doing word, she's like, oh,
(11:15):
this is what personal growth, personal developments, self help, human behavior,
this is what it is about. And it was like,
what I liked was. I thought, for a minute there,
you weren't going to because you went to Queensland to
do this and it was a big event and there
were lots of people, big crowd, lots of other speakers.
(11:38):
But there was a moment there where I thought, Ah,
she's not going to go. She's going to fucking throw
the dummy out of the kotch. She's not going. But what, Shane,
what got you back on track?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I was closer than you would probably realize to that,
And the only I'd say the main reason I didn't
is that I had three people that had bought tickets
to be there too, from Queensland, one from Melbourne, and
I was like, you kind of can't your mate's are
doing anything. Yeah. One of the big reasons I was
(12:10):
justifying to myself that it's better off for me to
pull out was the quality of the people in the room.
I was like, well, if I'm going to go and
deliver this keynote and I feel that it's going to
be suboptimal compared to what I feel like I would
be able to bring if I could just do my
own thing, then do I want to be doing that
in front of the potential contacts that I'll be speaking
(12:33):
in front of, because is that a good opportunity or
a bad opportunity. So and then I got about maybe
three or four weeks out and I went, Okay, well,
you've got a choice here. You can either keep complaining
or you can choose to do this and just put
every bit of your attention and energy into trying to
(12:58):
nail it as very best you can inside the process,
whether you like think you like it or not. That's
what you said when you started this course, that maybe
it'll be the shittest one you've ever done, and that
you'll learn something. But then when it came to facing that,
it's still very hard, right because you go, I'm going
to be shit. Everyone's going to think I'm shit. I'm
going to be embarrassed. It's going to be awkward. Important
(13:21):
people are going to see me fail, and I don't
want to feel like that.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
What was the I mean, you just managed a couple
of things, But what were the things that for you
were the hardest to overcome or deal with or navigate
in terms of getting there and doing it?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It was the things that I value in speaking, that
I think that I bring are me just being very
grounded and relatable and real and in the moment and
present and connected to my audience, like we are having
a one on one conversation at a coffee shop. That's
(14:04):
what I think. I really, I really love that style
of a speaker, someone that just isn't putting on a performance.
Especially A big part of my keynote is talking about
the masks we wear and to drop the mask because
we you know, we don't get real results, we don't
know ourselves, we don't overcome our bullshit when we're wearing
a mask. So it's a value of mine. And so
(14:27):
then I'm creating this keynote that is quite tightly like initially,
we script every We script the entire thing, which I
found a challenge because how I write and how I
talk a different. So how do you get your thoughts
down into written words that are the words that you
would say when you're speaking. So that process was tricky,
and I just thought, my head's going to be so
(14:49):
full of this new information that the things I value
the most can't possibly happen, and I will forget because
of my brain isn't always my best mate when it
comes to details. I'll get up there, I'll make eye
contact and crack a joke with someone, and then I'll think,
I have no idea where I'm at or where I'm
(15:10):
what I'm supposed to, you know, I just I will blame.
I thought, that's what's going to happen, and that's going
to be really embarrassing. So that was my challenge.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So for you also because you are probably a bit
like me in that, like I've never which is not
say this is a good thing or a bad thing,
but I've never in my life rehearsed or practiced or
anything ever. Like I've never had a script. I've always had,
(15:39):
you know, dot point notes, and you were a little
bit like that. But this this was very much where
they wanted it to be, at least initially somewhat scripted,
so that you could kind of have pretty much a
set presentation, which is really not your natural habitat or
your normal operating system, right sure not. So were you
(16:03):
able to, within the confines of that process still be.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You, interestingly more than I ever believed I could have.
So when it came to the day, I felt completely
like I almost felt like I wasn't scripted at all.
I just knew it. I knew what I was going
to say, and obviously there were things I was saying.
(16:29):
I mean, within that process itself, it is not to
be word perfect scripted. It's just to tightly know your content.
It's pretty much how it rolled out, which I was
saying the whole time. All hit it's just memorizing words.
But it actually did unfold that way, and it gave
me a lead up of the weeks. In leading up,
(16:51):
you know what, I'm normally like, I can't do anything
because I'm like, oh, oh, I got to do this thing,
and I'm all anxious. I've never been so relaxed, and
I've never been so relaxed as I was the day.
And I had the best fun because I just trusted
that I was going to say what I needed to say,
and then I just got to improvise and crack jokes
(17:12):
and know that, you know, I guess the most pressure
that was there was that I had it really tight
forty minutes with two minutes leeway, and I knew because
I'd practiced it over and over, I knew that I
was hitting forty two minutes every time, So I didn't
have time to dilly dally or get or go on
(17:32):
a tangent or muck around. So yeah, it gave me
mental space to think about those little things that I
don't normally get to think about because I'm thinking about
the content that's coming out.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It's interesting sometimes, I think when we go through a
process or we commit to do something that might not
be fun or easy, but we want to at the
end of the thing that we commit to, whether or
not it's a new way of eating, or whether or
not it's a speaking program, or whether not it's you know,
doing an undergrad degree, or whether or not it's like
(18:04):
anything where it's a process and you've got to go
and work at it and you've got to keep showing up.
I think quite often it's actually, ironically in the middle
of the thing that you're doing, like you're creating the outcome,
and the outcome for you was you rocked up, you
did it, you did a good job, people liked it,
you did a good presentation, tickety boot, as Paul Taylor says.
(18:26):
But in the middle of that you kind of you
really develop and you really learn, and you're actually, as
you said, you're dealing with all of the shit. It's
personally that you're then going to talk to people about,
and so you're still a fucking dysfunctional work in progress,
(18:49):
you know, just like me. The amount of times in
my in the last six years, by the way, three
days ago it was six years my PhD and you
know it's about two months away maybe, but the amount
of times where I've I've thought, not how could I
give up? Right because it's not really, but like, how
do I get out of this? How do I get
(19:11):
out of it? Because this is like is it worth it?
Is it? Why am I doing it? Do I need
to do it? I already have a decent following. A
few people think I know what I'm talking about. I've
written a few books, I've done a few things, I've
got a profile. It's not shit like there's a bit
of respect for me. I don't know. You know, a
(19:32):
few people think I'm a fuck with That's all right,
but there's it gonna make a difference and that, and
it's it's just because it's fucking hard, and I'm like,
oh god, and it takes so long, and and you're you're,
you know, like you were in this kind of this paradigm,
(19:54):
this this model, this program that's wasn't your natural habitat
and so I've been in a version of that for
six years where I'm not a natural academic, but I'm
in that world and you learn how to do it right.
And even when I'm finished, I'm not going to come
out and go, yeah, I'm an academic because I'm I've
done an academic process, but I don't see myself as
(20:17):
an academic. But somebody who's you know, can do certain things,
just like I can play guitar, but I don't call
myself a musician, right. It's you know, I can run,
but I don't call myself a runner.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
It's so, yeah, well you did this thing, craigan, you
created this result and tip you did the same, and
well done. But the interesting thing for me is it's
maybe one of the hardest things I've done in my
life because it isn't where I excel. It isn't the
thing that I'm great at. It's like people go, oh,
(20:49):
you know, like, oh, you like when I built my
businesses and stuff like I built gyms, Well that's my
fucking natural habitat. And yeah, there was business stuff and
commercial stuff that I needed to learn and adapt to.
But like for me, doing a PhD is twenty six
times harder than building a business, you know, and being
you know, having to write a certain way which is
(21:11):
not the way that I write, having to talk a
certain way, which is not the way that I talk,
having to go and present to four people in front
of an academic board to rationalize, and which is of
course I need to do this, and I'm happy to
do it. But again, like I'm talking of four people
and I'm terrified the day before I'm talking to with
(21:32):
a thousand people, and I'm I can telling dick jokes
and having the best time ever, right, and it's just, oh, yeah,
this is And so it's that, what's the room that
I'm going to grow in? Where do I need to
go to grow? Because what is very easy to do
is to default to the thing that you're good at,
(21:55):
or the thing that you're most comfortable with, or the
thing where you'll get the most pro Right. I know,
I can go into some rooms and get all the
backslaps in the world and all the accolades and your ace, right,
my ego fucking loves that, my self esteem loves that,
my fear and insecurity loves that. Or I can go
to another room, which is the room I actually need
(22:17):
to go to. If I'm talking about yes, I want
to learn, grow, evolve, be better. Well, Craig, this is
the room. It's not the room you want, but it's
the room you need. And I think that you know,
you just went for six months or whateverver it was,
into a room that you needed. I mean, in there
six years and then I'm sure when I come out
(22:38):
of this room, I'll go into another room at some stage.
But it's like that. I think actually choosing that, you know,
in a strategic intelligence not reckless way, but choosing that
that discomfort as long as it aligns with the kind
of gross that you want. I think it's I think
it's a superpower. But we we spend so much time
(23:02):
and I'm talking about we generally trying to avoid that room,
but it's to our own detriment.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And when you choose it, you learn so much about yourself.
Like I always talk about how much I learned stepping
into the boxing ring and seeing that version of Tiff
that's in the middle of a fight, that's in fight
or flight, that can't spin a story or bullshit because
the reaction is there. You react and then you go, oh,
(23:31):
I'm the person that cowers or ducks or this. I'm
the person that didn't fight, and then I've got to
do the work to change it. I learned that it's
getting on this like I would was pacing around beforehand,
going I'd rather be punched in the face right now,
right because I'd rather get in the ring and fight,
because at least people you do a brave thing, Like
(23:54):
at least if I fail, it's not because I'm shit,
it's because someone was better on the day getting on
the stage by myself. If I fail, no one beat me.
I let myself down, or that's the story we tell.
I haven't let myself down, you know. But it was like, oh,
I just learned something about you know, the story I
might cling to about how courageous I am or how
(24:17):
I do hard things. Half my keynote is on our
relationship with hard things. I'm putting that under the microscope
and I just think that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, well, you're talking about hard things in the middle
of doing a hard thing.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It was a sorry. There was a there was a
speaker who she's a neurosignist. She's amazing, and she was
speaking for the very first time ever on how stress
affects the brain and her keynote is exceptional. And in
the middle of that, I've got goosebumps. Now every time
(24:50):
I talk about it, I have goosebumps. She was the
biggest inspiration. She was freezing and forgetting, and for the
whole forty minutes her keynote, she just kept coming up
to these huge silences where she just stood and needed
to go inside and find what the f she was
(25:11):
supposed to say next, and she I can't tell you.
I was like, that's the She is the biggest inspiration
to me in that room. And she's braver than me,
because I think I would have gone, hey, guys, you
know what I'm talking about. It's happening to me right now,
so I'm on f off out the back like that,
To just stand there, to not apologize, to not get flustered,
(25:34):
to not get nerves like obviously she had nerves, but
she held the space and the whole room just held
her and loved her for it. Like that is courage.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, that's that's that is amazing. That is and for
people to know what was going on and to be
there and to be okay with that and for her.
But what I love about that is that is a
good story. What I love about that is that if
she keeps going, which I hope she does, she's just
(26:08):
going to build on that and that'll be that that
will become part of her story, and that the you know,
it's the six hundred episodes of the U Project losing money.
It's that it's like, you know, all the gigs that
I did before I was any good, you know, before
I got paid any money, before I got actual money.
You know, like, yeah, how do you how do you
(26:31):
how do you become masterful? How do you become highly skilled?
How do you become how do you become elite? How
do you optimize your potential? How do you how do
you get the most out of you? Will you get
up and you freeze, maybe and and you lose your place,
and you don't give up, and you stand there and
you just figure it out and you you sold your
(26:53):
on and then next time you probably won't do that,
or you might do it less. And then eventually you're
going to tell this story about the first time you
got up and what a train wreckord kind of was,
but also what a massive learning experience it was and
how it shaped you. You know, this is like pretty
much everything in life is about how we.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Respond, and the appreciation for the result comes only because
of the hardship of it. I am only as elated.
I was elate. I felt like I'd just had my
first fight again. I had first fight adrenaline. I had
first fighted adrenaline before speaking on stage. I definitely had
it for two days afterwards. I felt like I was
(27:36):
coming down from hard drugs. But that is only That
is not because of the moment on stage. That is
because of what I chose not to crumble under in
the lead up. That is because I know and I
loved that I came so close to not doing.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
It so good. Yeah, it's yeah, Well here's my quick story.
So you know what's going on with my dad, and
my listeners kind of know. So he's just gone through
some really difficult stuff. So I had to do I
(28:14):
had to talk Tuesday morning, and I got off the
plane Monday evening and found out what was going on
with dad. So then and then I had which I
spoke about. I did a podcast about this, which went
up Monday, I think, but which it just is what
it is, you know. And but then not sleeping worrying
(28:36):
about my dad, who's and then worrying about my mum.
Who really, you know, my dad's eighty six. My mum's
eighty six in a few weeks. And it's just really
complicated and it's honestly, it's pretty difficult, but it is
what it is, right, and then trying to trying to
(28:59):
not put it out of your but not let that
destroy you. And then I had to get up less
than twenty four hours, you know, so like I would
have slept, I don't know how much I slept, but
not more than an hour. And then I got up
and I had to go and talk to a room
full of lawyers, God bless them, and be funny and
(29:20):
tell great stories and be inspirational and share great ideas.
And you can't walk in and go listen, I know
you're paying me five X, but I'm just going to
give you one x value because I've had a hard night. Yeah,
And can I tell you about what's going on in
my purse? You can't do that, understandably, and neither should you.
(29:41):
So you know this is and then well what is that? Well,
that's life. It's like, yeah, if I and by the way,
you know, if me staying up there or flying home
straight away wouldn't have made any difference to what was
going on with my dad for anyone who's thinking that
otherwise I would have found home. But yeah, it's in that.
(30:03):
Oh well, this is It doesn't get much worse than
this in terms of like when somebody that you love
is is, you know, in in a really challenging situation,
and my energy and my emotions and my mind and
to a great extent my body were almost not present.
(30:26):
But then you've got to then you've got to rock up,
and you've got to go and breathe and just be
totally here, totally nowhere else, And you know that's that's
the thing is like that is life sometimes like life
is just a fuck fest, and in the middle of
that we need to try to find a way to
(30:50):
be whatever it is we need to be in that
moment to get through it. And then then go the
quantat club and have a little cry in the bathroom.
Crag you can do it there, Have a little tandy
in the corner, eat your own body weight in quantas
club food, do whatever you want, but for this hour
you need to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
How do you compartmentalize or give yourself a space or
a moment to be in the middle of what's going on,
and then in order to park it to function, how
do you navigate those two?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
So what I do, and again this is not a
recommendation nor advice, is I totally feel what I'm feeling.
And then I don't try to not feel any of it.
I don't try to I don't put my head in
the sand, I don't pretend it's not going on. But
about literally only about five ten minutes before I then
(31:45):
just try to clear my mind, get really kind of
still and calm, and I go into it with that awareness,
but without being focused on it. And what I did
was which I wasn't. I kind of waxed and waned.
And in the last kind of five to eight minutes
(32:08):
of my presentation, I told the audience, because we're talking
about performing under pressure, we're talking about dealing with adversity,
We're talking about being able to be, you know, the
best version of us that we could be despite you know,
the stuff that goes on, right, And I said, so,
I said to them, I've been back, going back and
(32:31):
forth mentally as to whether or not I would share
this with you, but I think it kind of you know,
without being self indulgent, without looking for any kind of
anything from you, let me just tell you about my
last eighteen hours. And I told them, and it's like
half of them almost cried, and all of a sudden,
(32:53):
just being very you know, i'd been very real and raw,
but being very real and raw in the last ten minutes,
it's like, oh, it created a level of connection that
I hadn't until there was connection and there was rapport
and it was good. But all of a sudden, we
opened the door, maybe three doors, and we went like
(33:15):
three levels deeper and and yeah, and I feel like
that was almost the deal maker, you know, in terms
of them going, oh, that was fucking great. And by
the way, you know, and half the people in the
room would have come up. A few people came up,
got me a hug. A few people just quite a
(33:36):
few people just said, you know, thanks for sharing that.
That kind of put things into perspective. I hope your
dad's right and all of that that stuff. You know.
But and whether or not you're a corporate speaker or
you're a plumber, you know, you go to work and
you do you know, plumbers have bad days. Plumbers have
dads that get sick. You know, it's school teachers, have
you know, everyone's got a deal with someone in their
(33:58):
world getting sick or or you know, we've all got
to deal with injustice. Sadly, we've all got to deal
with unfairness and pain and loss and and you know,
while we're still going to be human and like I
don't pretend it's not hard. I just go all right, well,
(34:19):
in the middle of this, how do I how do
I navigate this? How do I walk my own talk
while not being a sociopath? You know, like I've still
got to feel what I've got to feel, and you know,
there are times where I think, all right, well for now,
(34:41):
this is just how I need to be in this moment,
and I can do that. Doesn't mean I'm denying anything
that's going on or denying my emotions. But yeah, so
that that was an interesting and it's been an interesting
week since, you know, And that's like here's the here's
the thing, right, there are just and it's going to
happen to you one day, right a version of that,
(35:04):
And like the thing is that there's just always going
to be things that affect us that are real tough,
that are actually out of our control, and so our
challenge is not to control it or try to control it,
but rather to do what we can for those people,
love them, serve them, look up whatever we can, but
(35:27):
then really to manage ourselves around the stuff that we
can't manage, you know. And and two Yeah, it's it's
an interesting it's an interesting time. And what I find,
as somebody who's done eight years of conversations like this,
(35:47):
it's like almost a moment, an even bigger moment of
self awareness for me, because I go, all right, mister
fucking self help, mister the you project, mister ah be
all you can be? Can you perform under pressure? Mister?
What do you like when the shit is yeah? Like?
What are you like like? What do you like like?
(36:07):
What do you like when you know when no one's looking?
What do you like when you know you're not getting
a fucking any kind of social emotional trophy for this?
You know? That's that's the thing. And I think that's
why so much of our evolution, our becoming better, whatever
(36:29):
that means for us, building, resilience, building, skill building, competence, doing, thinking,
being better, So much of it is about what happens
when no one's looking or giving a fuck or cheering,
And I think that that's you know, that's part of
the key.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And the choice to share that when you did is
such a gift, Like I don't think you understand how
much that would solidify everything you spoke about, Like when,
because when people think now and something hard happens and
they think of all the theory you'd left them with,
they'll go, yeah, and you know what he was going
through this when he told us that, and he still
(37:07):
showed up and didn't show it by suppressing it and
hiding it and pretending it wasn't happening, just showed up.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I'm going to tell you another story. This is probably
not a good idea, but fuck it. So one of
my best friends in the world passed away, Rob Dixon Dicko. Gee,
I don't even know how many He must have been
the best part of fifteen or thirteen years ago, and
I had a corporate gig, and my corporate gig was
(37:41):
two o'clock and Dicko's funeral was midday and where the
church was. Where the church was was about an eight
minute motorbike ride from where my gig was. So this
is my plan in hindsight not the best. So I
went to one of my best friend's funeral. I was
(38:02):
a fucking mess, as all of us were. And he yeah,
this is the saddest story ever. Anyway, he passed away,
and so did his two sons who were little boys,
and his wife, Dusty, beautiful lady she was. It was
the saddest funeral you could imagine anyway, and way sadder
(38:26):
for the family than me. But you know, like him
and I were great friends, as it was with many people, right.
But so I thought, it's going to be about now.
Then I'll have about an hour to regroup and go
and do this thing. I'll get through it. It had
been booked forever. There was quite a lot of people
at this gig. It was just me, not like there
(38:46):
was eight other speakers I could pull out. And so
the funeral went forever and a quarter to two, so
I've got a gig in fifteen minutes, I had to leave,
and so I rode to this place. I don't even
(39:09):
know why I'm telling this story, this is just but
I rode to this place crying, so on my motorbike
in my helmet, crying. And I get there and I've
got to try and and I'm a fucking wreck. I'm
in no state to do this right. And anyway, I
go into the bathroom. I get there like four minutes
before I go into the bathroom, I wash my face,
(39:32):
I get my shit together, and I start and I
do my thing, and I can't remember anyway. Towards the end,
I mentioned what my what had happened not and I
lost my shit. I lost my shit and I didn't
(39:55):
like thought, but I just and I was in front
of this whole group and I just I started crying,
and then I started to apologize for crying, and then
like one of the ladies actually came up and hugged me,
which was beautiful, but then it made it worse, Like
(40:15):
now I'm really fucked. Oh my god, I'd forgotten about
that till we started talking about my dad's thing. But yeah,
it's like I've had some really interesting moments on stage,
and I like, I look at that, and I think
they could have been really angry with me, because nobody
wants that dude up on the stage, Like, oh, we
(40:39):
get in this inspirational guy who starts crying, and I'm like,
fucking hell, if you guys want your money back and
more let me know that they were very gracious and
very kind.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
What did you learn? Did you learn something out of
that about you personally or professional?
Speaker 3 (40:59):
I it's like, yeah, what did I learn? Well, practically,
I would. I realized later I shouldn't. I didn't know
that it was going to be. I thought there would
be an hour's gap and I would be able to
get myself together, but there wasn't. So in hindschight, maybe
(41:19):
I shouldn't have done it. But as it turns out,
they I got more positive. I didn't really get any negative.
Maybe they just felt sorry for me. But I just
think that, you know, without being without being an attention
seeker or It's like when I did the podcast the
other day about and the podcast was called I've had
(41:42):
a pretty shit week or whatever. Right now, I've never
had a negative title in all of my podcasts, and
I've never got on and ever tried to seek sympathy
or pity or and I definitely wasn't doing it with that.
But my motivation was, well, my reasoning was, I really
(42:03):
had had had a ship week with other people as well,
and I thought I don't want to and I was
doing a solo one, It was just me, I don't
want to get on here and pretend I'm happy. I
don't want to get on here, And I thought, why
don't I just get on and without making it, without
trying to make it depressing or sad, just go. So
(42:26):
this is, you know, this is the guy that's always
trying to inspire and inform and educate and all that stuff.
Tell you a story makes you laugh. Here's that guy
who's honestly had a count of a week. Let's be honest, right,
and and and just to talk about that, because I think,
(42:46):
you know, and then to talk about how I'd kind
of navigated that. Not that I did a stellar job,
but I could have done worse. I guess. I think
that's part of the biggest compliment for me, is that
about this show is that people relate to it, really
(43:06):
relate to it, and relate to the conversations and hopefully
us today and rather than getting on going, hey, everybody,
here's how you deal with sadness. Here's how you deal
with depression and tough situations. Get out your pen and
paper step one. Step one, think positive things. Step two.
(43:28):
Get in nature, get your toes in the sands. Step
three just self, feel what you feel. Step four, what's
your rom Come, We'll be back tomorrow. You know. It's
like it's sometimes I think, fuck, is this even good
to listen to? Like when I finished that solo the
other day with me just banging on about the week,
(43:51):
I sent it to Melissa or Melissa had a listen
and I went, was that dog shit? And she goes, no.
I'm like, because I I feel like I don't want
to put something up that is just going to make
people sad or the pressed or But I think that's
the beauty of even you know, in life there are
peaks and troughs, and in eight years of broadcasting a show,
(44:13):
there are peaks and troughs. And I think that people
when I look up to someone or have learned from
someone and it seems like they never have a problem,
well I can't relate really. But when I see that, oh,
they're navigating hard things as well, I'm more likely to
(44:35):
lean in and pay attention and I can still learn,
you know, and I can go, oh, well, this happened
to Craig and this is what he did, Which is
not say anyone else should do what I did or
react how I did, but but just knowing that, Yeah, no,
of course things are shit sometimes. Of course I get angry,
of course they get frustrated. Of course I want to
(44:55):
fucking punch someone in the face. I wouldn't. I wouldn't though,
but that you know, that feeling. It's like, you know, sometimes,
especially when you've got an eighty six year old dad,
sometimes without saying anything specifically, fuck, sometimes I feel like
for some people, oh, he's just a problem. It's like
(45:17):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, we're here, I'm sorry, my dad's
eighty six, and that you have to you know, you're like,
fuck and hell, you know, it's like ah. But then
me being that way outwardly fixes nothing, in fact creates
more problems. So me needing to and also understanding the
(45:38):
greater context and you know, in hospitals like we were in,
where everyone's trying and it's busy and they're under resourced
and over demanded and if that's a word, and yeah, me,
then me trying to manage me in the middle of
all of that, so that I'm the best for Dad
and the best for mum and also a decent human
(45:59):
for other people to be around. Yeah, it's an exercise
in self control and self management, and you know, I.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Think it's also really nice that episode. Like one thing
that you're probably not the very very very best at
is letting people hold space for you and care about you.
And I think letting that that's soft.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Fuck that, letting the t one that I didn't need
any of that, that I'm an island. I'm an island humanity,
I'm an island. Don't throw your boat over here, fuck
off with your boat, but just.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Not like not just being showing up for the typ
community to be a lesson, but let them hold the
space and go, hey, we're fucking here for you. Like
I don't think you understand how beneficial that is for you,
Like we want to do that. Everyone that follows you
in that group wants to wants to say you something,
(47:01):
to let you know that they're all here and that
they love that you're human, and like that's a gift.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Sorry you broke up. I didn't hear any of that.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Sorry, you're also a bit of a fuck with.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Yeah, Well, thank you, and thank you to everybody for
all the nice things I've got, like lots and lots
of lots of love and lots of yeah, lots of support,
and also, you know, via a messenger and all kinds
of shit. It's been I don't have a chicken casserole,
so if somebody wants to reach out with food, that's
(47:37):
probably my love language. It's probably my love language chicken casserole.
No pressure thee oh box. All right, before you make
me cry, I'm going to wind it up. If it's
been bu congrats on your speaking kind of it's not
(47:57):
your debut, but on a big stage. Was your speaking
debut to the world. That's fucking you opening the door
to the big time. So well done. Congrats and thanks
for hanging out with me for an hour or so.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Thank you, she said, it's now never.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
I got fighting in my blood, got it it
She said, it's now never. I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is role with the punches, and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com, dot au.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Ogay a TIV. Welcome Mar to the You Project, Tiffany
and Cook and everyone else. Before you say anything, why
why am in an a different virtual room? Because I'm
out of fancy.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
We've leveled up with fancy. We're on riverside. Look at this.
Look how fancy he is? Even get a countdown when
I press record? Isn't it fancy?
Speaker 3 (01:10):
It's too fancy for me? I don't you know. I
don't like change. I don't play well with others and
I don't like change.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
That's what. That's why I thought I'd throw this one
to you, just to keep you on your toes, just
to keep you growing and evolving and learning and doing
all the Craig harperisms that you teach all of us to.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I don't know how to deal. So everyone, what I'm
normally looking at is I'm normally looking at a virtual
studio that I'm in and it's all razzle dazzle, and
it's on zoom and it's beautiful. I know exactly what's
going on. And Tiff and I are recording, and she
sent me a link to something different, and I'm looking
at I'm just looking at me, sitting in my messy
office with shit written on the whiteboard behind me. I
(01:52):
don't have a filter on my face, so I look
every one of my fucking sixty two years. I look
like someone's granddad lost in a fucking podcast studio. I
like the one where I look prettier and younger. Can
we make that happen?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think you look fabulous. Are you a bit thrown
by my long acrylic nails as well? That's thrown me
for what is to.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Go with that? Can you post a photo of those?
Because I mean, I'm not being offensive or inappropriate. When
I say you are thirty percent male, I think it's
probably more you claim a mere thirty percent. I'm I
think you're a hybrid man woman, and I mean that
in the nicest way, because you've got traps coming out
(02:37):
of your ears and it don't dealt for fucking days.
Am I allowed to keep going because there's.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
More larious fabulous? It makes me happy?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
No, I think I know you would laugh, but I
know there won't be people that will laugh. But I'll
tell you off air because the next one was going
to be a fucking zinger, a complete fucking you would
have loved it. But three people write and tell me
how offensive and inappropriate and politically and correct I am.
And to those three people, fuck you. So no, I
(03:11):
mean that, no money kidding, but it is. It is.
It has thrown me a little bit because I'm not
used to looking at this. But anyway, Ah tell everyone.
So you've been in Queensland. You had this thing. I
know all your people know, but my people don't know.
So you've got this opportunity to speak at this event,
which did a good give us the snapshot before we
(03:34):
dive into our which we may not even get to
our fucking topic, because that is generally the way to you.
I guess my long winded point is you and long
girly nails, and God bless her. It's kind of like
me in a fucking tutu. It just messes with my head.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Me too. And I asked three times for short, straight nails,
and she just looked at me and went, women and
your deal, your deal. She would not listen and she
laughed at me. I was like, bro, I can't ride
my motorcycle with nails like this. She said, your deal?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Are you inferring that the lady who did your nails?
Was it a lady or a man?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Or?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
It was a lady, right, just checking? Are you inferring
one that she was Asian?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Because if anyone, if anyone has seen the real most
people will know this when I say it, and someone
will be like, what are you talking about? If everyone
knows the real the comedy reel, I can't remember the
chick's name, but she does a thing about the nail
so on and she's like, do you like grittel joll.
Everyone knows that this was a version of that cheek.
(04:43):
She was so funny, but she would not give me
what I wanted, and she upsold me, and she did
the opposite of what I asked for, And now I'm
stuck with these long roll with the punched colors, Roll
with the punches colored. Get your words right.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Fingernails, Well, they are very glamorous. But when I think
of glamorous, with all due respect, you don't fucking spring
to mind. When I think of you, I think more like,
like those nails are like, uh, you know, Porsche nine
to eleven. You're more like Ford F one fifty pickup truck.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Like that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You know that.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I don't mind that. I don't mind that that help
me stand out on the week on the week.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
To me, what's tiff like? I say, robust, Jez, robust? Yeah,
So if glamorous is one end of the scale and
robust is the other, you're up that end.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I'm exactly where I want to be. Then, thank you.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
No, you're welcome, You're welcome. I reckon, I'm closer to
the glamor and than you.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Some of these nails on and you're going to own it.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
That lady that you were talking about, the Asian lady
who was impersonating, and so she's an Asian comedian who
was impersonating and.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
She's not Asian. I think she might be.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
No, I think she isn't. Is she the one that
said you so pretty? Why you not have boyfriend? Yeah?
Now I'm going to get in. I'm just saying what
she said, So don't yell at me. Yeah, it's funny,
very funny. How do people find that? If they want
to find that? Could they? They could go to YouTube
(06:34):
like Lady Nail Lady comedian.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Jail Crystal jel Nail comedy. All right, that'll bring it
up and I will find it and put it in
the typ Facebook group.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
So how did you go? So you were because you
were having, at various stages a little fucking tanty and
emotional kind of periodic meltdown because I understand you, well,
you who is like a dog with a metaphoric dog
with three dicks, and you just like to wander and
(07:07):
go wherever you want to go. But you you have
been working in part of this program to be trained
in a certain particular way of presenting in a certain model.
And let's just say that initially you and it weren't
a great fit, or you didn't think you were, because
you're like, fuck rules. I don't like rules, sticking rules
(07:28):
up your ass, and they're like, well, you actually enrolled
in this program. That's like me going to do a
PhD G and by the way, I'll do it however
I want fuck your system. I don't care about I
don't care about the PhD rules. Fuck it. Yeah, so
how did you go with that? Because I when you
(07:50):
started that and I figured out that it was so
Tiff was doing a correct me if I get anything wrong.
So you're doing a like a speaking speaker's development kind
of process program with other people. What's the lady's name
who led it, We may as well give her a
fucking shout at what's.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Her name, Jacqueline Jacqueline Brooker. She deserves it. She's she's
uh put up with me for a long time now,
so she deserves a shout out.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Is it fair that to say that you crack the
shits at her a little bit?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I look yet internally, yeah, I was, I was. I
think I used the word petulant with you the other day.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
I was.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I tried to keep it all internal, but you know,
I'm not good at that. So when there's internal angst,
everybody involved feels it.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
What did you So, what did you learn about stepping
out of the tiff model, which is like essentially no model,
it's just like free range chicken and being kind of
channeled into a particular way of doing something, not forever
but for a period of time. What did you What
were the what were the positives? What were the lessons
(08:56):
out of it?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, what was interesting, ironic and beneficial and valuable was
that almost every component of the keynote I put together
that I was teaching about lessons that I have learned
or value had to be applied. I had to apply.
(09:18):
I was applying them, managing my emotions, dealing within a critic,
looking at my programming and my ability to control what
was what I could control, and get uncomfortable, and be
honest about what challenges me, and be honest about my
(09:42):
perception versus reality. Like all of this stuff is are
things that I talk about inside the keynote, and in
the middle of it, I'm challenged by them because that's
the nature of the work. We do right, and we
do the work that we need to do, like we
end up I think we end up teaching what we
need to learn or what we've needed to learn.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
And I think, like I've said to you a few times,
when a few things in your life are going not great,
I'm like, this is when all of the stuff that
we talk about actually matters right now, when things are shit,
when things are uncomfortable and unfamiliar and uncertain and unpleasant,
and it's like, now is when you need to be
able to walk the talk that you've been talking. Otherwise
(10:28):
it's just fucking window dressing for a life that's really
kind of not representative of the person that we are publicly,
and that is you know, for me, that is why
it's personal development. It's not a product or a brand
or a book or a podcast or a presentation. Like
personal development is literally a messy, uncomfortable motherfucker of a
(10:50):
process that we go through. Or don't you know? Self
help is literally for me helping yourself, you know. And yes,
there are going to be kind of resources and videos
and books and all of those things in your proximity perhaps,
but that kind of when you turn it from a
noun into a verb, like a doing word, she's like, oh,
(11:15):
this is what personal growth, personal developments, self help, human behavior,
this is what it is about. And it was like,
what I liked was. I thought, for a minute there,
you weren't going to because you went to Queensland to
do this and it was a big event and there
were lots of people, big crowd, lots of other speakers.
(11:38):
But there was a moment there where I thought, Ah,
she's not going to go. She's going to fucking throw
the dummy out of the kotch. She's not going. But what, Shane,
what got you back on track?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
I was closer than you would probably realize to that,
And the only I'd say the main reason I didn't
is that I had three people that had bought tickets
to be there too, from Queensland, one from Melbourne, and
I was like, you kind of can't your mate's are
doing anything. Yeah. One of the big reasons I was
(12:10):
justifying to myself that it's better off for me to
pull out was the quality of the people in the room.
I was like, well, if I'm going to go and
deliver this keynote and I feel that it's going to
be suboptimal compared to what I feel like I would
be able to bring if I could just do my
own thing, then do I want to be doing that
in front of the potential contacts that I'll be speaking
(12:33):
in front of, because is that a good opportunity or
a bad opportunity. So and then I got about maybe
three or four weeks out and I went, Okay, well,
you've got a choice here. You can either keep complaining
or you can choose to do this and just put
every bit of your attention and energy into trying to
(12:58):
nail it as very best you can inside the process,
whether you like think you like it or not. That's
what you said when you started this course, that maybe
it'll be the shittest one you've ever done, and that
you'll learn something. But then when it came to facing that,
it's still very hard, right because you go, I'm going
to be shit. Everyone's going to think I'm shit. I'm
going to be embarrassed. It's going to be awkward. Important
(13:21):
people are going to see me fail, and I don't
want to feel like that.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
What was the I mean, you just managed a couple
of things, But what were the things that for you
were the hardest to overcome or deal with or navigate
in terms of getting there and doing it?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It was the things that I value in speaking, that
I think that I bring are me just being very
grounded and relatable and real and in the moment and
present and connected to my audience, like we are having
a one on one conversation at a coffee shop. That's
(14:04):
what I think. I really, I really love that style
of a speaker, someone that just isn't putting on a performance.
Especially A big part of my keynote is talking about
the masks we wear and to drop the mask because
we you know, we don't get real results, we don't
know ourselves, we don't overcome our bullshit when we're wearing
a mask. So it's a value of mine. And so
(14:27):
then I'm creating this keynote that is quite tightly like initially,
we script every We script the entire thing, which I
found a challenge because how I write and how I
talk a different. So how do you get your thoughts
down into written words that are the words that you
would say when you're speaking. So that process was tricky,
and I just thought, my head's going to be so
(14:49):
full of this new information that the things I value
the most can't possibly happen, and I will forget because
of my brain isn't always my best mate when it
comes to details. I'll get up there, I'll make eye
contact and crack a joke with someone, and then I'll think,
I have no idea where I'm at or where I'm
(15:10):
what I'm supposed to, you know, I just I will blame.
I thought, that's what's going to happen, and that's going
to be really embarrassing. So that was my challenge.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So for you also because you are probably a bit
like me in that, like I've never which is not
say this is a good thing or a bad thing,
but I've never in my life rehearsed or practiced or
anything ever. Like I've never had a script. I've always had,
(15:39):
you know, dot point notes, and you were a little
bit like that. But this this was very much where
they wanted it to be, at least initially somewhat scripted,
so that you could kind of have pretty much a
set presentation, which is really not your natural habitat or
your normal operating system, right sure not. So were you
(16:03):
able to, within the confines of that process still be.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You, interestingly more than I ever believed I could have.
So when it came to the day, I felt completely
like I almost felt like I wasn't scripted at all.
I just knew it. I knew what I was going
to say, and obviously there were things I was saying.
(16:29):
I mean, within that process itself, it is not to
be word perfect scripted. It's just to tightly know your content.
It's pretty much how it rolled out, which I was
saying the whole time. All hit it's just memorizing words.
But it actually did unfold that way, and it gave
me a lead up of the weeks. In leading up,
(16:51):
you know what, I'm normally like, I can't do anything
because I'm like, oh, oh, I got to do this thing,
and I'm all anxious. I've never been so relaxed, and
I've never been so relaxed as I was the day.
And I had the best fun because I just trusted
that I was going to say what I needed to say,
and then I just got to improvise and crack jokes
(17:12):
and know that, you know, I guess the most pressure
that was there was that I had it really tight
forty minutes with two minutes leeway, and I knew because
I'd practiced it over and over, I knew that I
was hitting forty two minutes every time, So I didn't
have time to dilly dally or get or go on
(17:32):
a tangent or muck around. So yeah, it gave me
mental space to think about those little things that I
don't normally get to think about because I'm thinking about
the content that's coming out.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It's interesting sometimes, I think when we go through a
process or we commit to do something that might not
be fun or easy, but we want to at the
end of the thing that we commit to, whether or
not it's a new way of eating, or whether or
not it's a speaking program, or whether not it's you know,
doing an undergrad degree, or whether or not it's like
(18:04):
anything where it's a process and you've got to go
and work at it and you've got to keep showing up.
I think quite often it's actually, ironically in the middle
of the thing that you're doing, like you're creating the outcome,
and the outcome for you was you rocked up, you
did it, you did a good job, people liked it,
you did a good presentation, tickety boot, as Paul Taylor says.
(18:26):
But in the middle of that you kind of you
really develop and you really learn, and you're actually, as
you said, you're dealing with all of the shit. It's
personally that you're then going to talk to people about,
and so you're still a fucking dysfunctional work in progress,
(18:49):
you know, just like me. The amount of times in
my in the last six years, by the way, three
days ago it was six years my PhD and you
know it's about two months away maybe, but the amount
of times where I've I've thought, not how could I
give up? Right because it's not really, but like, how
do I get out of this? How do I get
(19:11):
out of it? Because this is like is it worth it?
Is it? Why am I doing it? Do I need
to do it? I already have a decent following. A
few people think I know what I'm talking about. I've
written a few books, I've done a few things, I've
got a profile. It's not shit like there's a bit
of respect for me. I don't know. You know, a
(19:32):
few people think I'm a fuck with That's all right,
but there's it gonna make a difference and that, and
it's it's just because it's fucking hard, and I'm like,
oh god, and it takes so long, and and you're you're,
you know, like you were in this kind of this paradigm,
(19:54):
this this model, this program that's wasn't your natural habitat
and so I've been in a version of that for
six years where I'm not a natural academic, but I'm
in that world and you learn how to do it right.
And even when I'm finished, I'm not going to come
out and go, yeah, I'm an academic because I'm I've
done an academic process, but I don't see myself as
(20:17):
an academic. But somebody who's you know, can do certain things,
just like I can play guitar, but I don't call
myself a musician, right. It's you know, I can run,
but I don't call myself a runner.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
It's so, yeah, well you did this thing, craigan, you
created this result and tip you did the same, and
well done. But the interesting thing for me is it's
maybe one of the hardest things I've done in my
life because it isn't where I excel. It isn't the
thing that I'm great at. It's like people go, oh,
(20:49):
you know, like, oh, you like when I built my
businesses and stuff like I built gyms, Well that's my
fucking natural habitat. And yeah, there was business stuff and
commercial stuff that I needed to learn and adapt to.
But like for me, doing a PhD is twenty six
times harder than building a business, you know, and being
you know, having to write a certain way which is
(21:11):
not the way that I write, having to talk a
certain way, which is not the way that I talk,
having to go and present to four people in front
of an academic board to rationalize, and which is of
course I need to do this, and I'm happy to
do it. But again, like I'm talking of four people
and I'm terrified the day before I'm talking to with
(21:32):
a thousand people, and I'm I can telling dick jokes
and having the best time ever, right, and it's just, oh, yeah,
this is And so it's that, what's the room that
I'm going to grow in? Where do I need to
go to grow? Because what is very easy to do
is to default to the thing that you're good at,
(21:55):
or the thing that you're most comfortable with, or the
thing where you'll get the most pro Right. I know,
I can go into some rooms and get all the
backslaps in the world and all the accolades and your ace, right,
my ego fucking loves that, my self esteem loves that,
my fear and insecurity loves that. Or I can go
to another room, which is the room I actually need
(22:17):
to go to. If I'm talking about yes, I want
to learn, grow, evolve, be better. Well, Craig, this is
the room. It's not the room you want, but it's
the room you need. And I think that you know,
you just went for six months or whateverver it was,
into a room that you needed. I mean, in there
six years and then I'm sure when I come out
(22:38):
of this room, I'll go into another room at some stage.
But it's like that. I think actually choosing that, you know,
in a strategic intelligence not reckless way, but choosing that
that discomfort as long as it aligns with the kind
of gross that you want. I think it's I think
it's a superpower. But we we spend so much time
(23:02):
and I'm talking about we generally trying to avoid that room,
but it's to our own detriment.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And when you choose it, you learn so much about yourself.
Like I always talk about how much I learned stepping
into the boxing ring and seeing that version of Tiff
that's in the middle of a fight, that's in fight
or flight, that can't spin a story or bullshit because
the reaction is there. You react and then you go, oh,
(23:31):
I'm the person that cowers or ducks or this. I'm
the person that didn't fight, and then I've got to
do the work to change it. I learned that it's
getting on this like I would was pacing around beforehand,
going I'd rather be punched in the face right now,
right because I'd rather get in the ring and fight,
because at least people you do a brave thing, Like
(23:54):
at least if I fail, it's not because I'm shit,
it's because someone was better on the day getting on
the stage by myself. If I fail, no one beat me.
I let myself down, or that's the story we tell.
I haven't let myself down, you know. But it was like, oh,
I just learned something about you know, the story I
might cling to about how courageous I am or how
(24:17):
I do hard things. Half my keynote is on our
relationship with hard things. I'm putting that under the microscope
and I just think that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, well, you're talking about hard things in the middle
of doing a hard thing.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It was a sorry. There was a there was a
speaker who she's a neurosignist. She's amazing, and she was
speaking for the very first time ever on how stress
affects the brain and her keynote is exceptional. And in
the middle of that, I've got goosebumps. Now every time
(24:50):
I talk about it, I have goosebumps. She was the
biggest inspiration. She was freezing and forgetting, and for the
whole forty minutes her keynote, she just kept coming up
to these huge silences where she just stood and needed
to go inside and find what the f she was
(25:11):
supposed to say next, and she I can't tell you.
I was like, that's the She is the biggest inspiration
to me in that room. And she's braver than me,
because I think I would have gone, hey, guys, you
know what I'm talking about. It's happening to me right now,
so I'm on f off out the back like that,
To just stand there, to not apologize, to not get flustered,
(25:34):
to not get nerves like obviously she had nerves, but
she held the space and the whole room just held
her and loved her for it. Like that is courage.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yeah, that's that's that is amazing. That is and for
people to know what was going on and to be
there and to be okay with that and for her.
But what I love about that is that is a
good story. What I love about that is that if
she keeps going, which I hope she does, she's just
(26:08):
going to build on that and that'll be that that
will become part of her story, and that the you know,
it's the six hundred episodes of the U Project losing money.
It's that it's like, you know, all the gigs that
I did before I was any good, you know, before
I got paid any money, before I got actual money.
You know, like, yeah, how do you how do you
(26:31):
how do you become masterful? How do you become highly skilled?
How do you become how do you become elite? How
do you optimize your potential? How do you how do
you get the most out of you? Will you get
up and you freeze, maybe and and you lose your place,
and you don't give up, and you stand there and
you just figure it out and you you sold your
(26:53):
on and then next time you probably won't do that,
or you might do it less. And then eventually you're
going to tell this story about the first time you
got up and what a train wreckord kind of was,
but also what a massive learning experience it was and
how it shaped you. You know, this is like pretty
much everything in life is about how we.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Respond, and the appreciation for the result comes only because
of the hardship of it. I am only as elated.
I was elate. I felt like I'd just had my
first fight again. I had first fight adrenaline. I had
first fighted adrenaline before speaking on stage. I definitely had
it for two days afterwards. I felt like I was
(27:36):
coming down from hard drugs. But that is only That
is not because of the moment on stage. That is
because of what I chose not to crumble under in
the lead up. That is because I know and I
loved that I came so close to not doing.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
It so good. Yeah, it's yeah, Well here's my quick story.
So you know what's going on with my dad, and
my listeners kind of know. So he's just gone through
some really difficult stuff. So I had to do I
(28:14):
had to talk Tuesday morning, and I got off the
plane Monday evening and found out what was going on
with dad. So then and then I had which I
spoke about. I did a podcast about this, which went
up Monday, I think, but which it just is what
it is, you know. And but then not sleeping worrying
(28:36):
about my dad, who's and then worrying about my mum.
Who really, you know, my dad's eighty six. My mum's
eighty six in a few weeks. And it's just really
complicated and it's honestly, it's pretty difficult, but it is
what it is, right, and then trying to trying to
(28:59):
not put it out of your but not let that
destroy you. And then I had to get up less
than twenty four hours, you know, so like I would
have slept, I don't know how much I slept, but
not more than an hour. And then I got up
and I had to go and talk to a room
full of lawyers, God bless them, and be funny and
(29:20):
tell great stories and be inspirational and share great ideas.
And you can't walk in and go listen, I know
you're paying me five X, but I'm just going to
give you one x value because I've had a hard night. Yeah,
And can I tell you about what's going on in
my purse? You can't do that, understandably, and neither should you.
(29:41):
So you know this is and then well what is that? Well,
that's life. It's like, yeah, if I and by the way,
you know, if me staying up there or flying home
straight away wouldn't have made any difference to what was
going on with my dad for anyone who's thinking that
otherwise I would have found home. But yeah, it's in that.
(30:03):
Oh well, this is It doesn't get much worse than
this in terms of like when somebody that you love
is is, you know, in in a really challenging situation,
and my energy and my emotions and my mind and
to a great extent my body were almost not present.
(30:26):
But then you've got to then you've got to rock up,
and you've got to go and breathe and just be
totally here, totally nowhere else, And you know that's that's
the thing is like that is life sometimes like life
is just a fuck fest, and in the middle of
that we need to try to find a way to
(30:50):
be whatever it is we need to be in that
moment to get through it. And then then go the
quantat club and have a little cry in the bathroom.
Crag you can do it there, Have a little tandy
in the corner, eat your own body weight in quantas
club food, do whatever you want, but for this hour
you need to be amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
How do you compartmentalize or give yourself a space or
a moment to be in the middle of what's going on,
and then in order to park it to function, how
do you navigate those two?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
So what I do, and again this is not a
recommendation nor advice, is I totally feel what I'm feeling.
And then I don't try to not feel any of it.
I don't try to I don't put my head in
the sand, I don't pretend it's not going on. But
about literally only about five ten minutes before I then
(31:45):
just try to clear my mind, get really kind of
still and calm, and I go into it with that awareness,
but without being focused on it. And what I did
was which I wasn't. I kind of waxed and waned.
And in the last kind of five to eight minutes
(32:08):
of my presentation, I told the audience, because we're talking
about performing under pressure, we're talking about dealing with adversity,
We're talking about being able to be, you know, the
best version of us that we could be despite you know,
the stuff that goes on, right, And I said, so,
I said to them, I've been back, going back and
(32:31):
forth mentally as to whether or not I would share
this with you, but I think it kind of you know,
without being self indulgent, without looking for any kind of
anything from you, let me just tell you about my
last eighteen hours. And I told them, and it's like
half of them almost cried, and all of a sudden,
(32:53):
just being very you know, i'd been very real and raw,
but being very real and raw in the last ten minutes,
it's like, oh, it created a level of connection that
I hadn't until there was connection and there was rapport
and it was good. But all of a sudden, we
opened the door, maybe three doors, and we went like
(33:15):
three levels deeper and and yeah, and I feel like
that was almost the deal maker, you know, in terms
of them going, oh, that was fucking great. And by
the way, you know, and half the people in the
room would have come up. A few people came up,
got me a hug. A few people just quite a
(33:36):
few people just said, you know, thanks for sharing that.
That kind of put things into perspective. I hope your
dad's right and all of that that stuff. You know.
But and whether or not you're a corporate speaker or
you're a plumber, you know, you go to work and
you do you know, plumbers have bad days. Plumbers have
dads that get sick. You know, it's school teachers, have
you know, everyone's got a deal with someone in their
(33:58):
world getting sick or or you know, we've all got
to deal with injustice. Sadly, we've all got to deal
with unfairness and pain and loss and and you know,
while we're still going to be human and like I
don't pretend it's not hard. I just go all right, well,
(34:19):
in the middle of this, how do I how do
I navigate this? How do I walk my own talk
while not being a sociopath? You know, like I've still
got to feel what I've got to feel, and you know,
there are times where I think, all right, well for now,
(34:41):
this is just how I need to be in this moment,
and I can do that. Doesn't mean I'm denying anything
that's going on or denying my emotions. But yeah, so
that that was an interesting and it's been an interesting
week since, you know, And that's like here's the here's
the thing, right, there are just and it's going to
happen to you one day, right a version of that,
(35:04):
And like the thing is that there's just always going
to be things that affect us that are real tough,
that are actually out of our control, and so our
challenge is not to control it or try to control it,
but rather to do what we can for those people,
love them, serve them, look up whatever we can, but
(35:27):
then really to manage ourselves around the stuff that we
can't manage, you know. And and two Yeah, it's it's
an interesting it's an interesting time. And what I find,
as somebody who's done eight years of conversations like this,
(35:47):
it's like almost a moment, an even bigger moment of
self awareness for me, because I go, all right, mister
fucking self help, mister the you project, mister ah be
all you can be? Can you perform under pressure? Mister?
What do you like when the shit is yeah? Like?
What are you like like? What do you like like?
(36:07):
What do you like when you know when no one's looking?
What do you like when you know you're not getting
a fucking any kind of social emotional trophy for this?
You know? That's that's the thing. And I think that's
why so much of our evolution, our becoming better, whatever
(36:29):
that means for us, building, resilience, building, skill building, competence, doing, thinking,
being better, So much of it is about what happens
when no one's looking or giving a fuck or cheering,
And I think that that's you know, that's part of
the key.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And the choice to share that when you did is
such a gift, Like I don't think you understand how
much that would solidify everything you spoke about, Like when,
because when people think now and something hard happens and
they think of all the theory you'd left them with,
they'll go, yeah, and you know what he was going
through this when he told us that, and he still
(37:07):
showed up and didn't show it by suppressing it and
hiding it and pretending it wasn't happening, just showed up.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I'm going to tell you another story. This is probably
not a good idea, but fuck it. So one of
my best friends in the world passed away, Rob Dixon Dicko. Gee,
I don't even know how many He must have been
the best part of fifteen or thirteen years ago, and
I had a corporate gig, and my corporate gig was
(37:41):
two o'clock and Dicko's funeral was midday and where the
church was. Where the church was was about an eight
minute motorbike ride from where my gig was. So this
is my plan in hindsight not the best. So I
went to one of my best friend's funeral. I was
(38:02):
a fucking mess, as all of us were. And he yeah,
this is the saddest story ever. Anyway, he passed away,
and so did his two sons who were little boys,
and his wife, Dusty, beautiful lady she was. It was
the saddest funeral you could imagine anyway, and way sadder
(38:26):
for the family than me. But you know, like him
and I were great friends, as it was with many people, right.
But so I thought, it's going to be about now.
Then I'll have about an hour to regroup and go
and do this thing. I'll get through it. It had
been booked forever. There was quite a lot of people
at this gig. It was just me, not like there
(38:46):
was eight other speakers I could pull out. And so
the funeral went forever and a quarter to two, so
I've got a gig in fifteen minutes, I had to leave,
and so I rode to this place. I don't even
(39:09):
know why I'm telling this story, this is just but
I rode to this place crying, so on my motorbike
in my helmet, crying. And I get there and I've
got to try and and I'm a fucking wreck. I'm
in no state to do this right. And anyway, I
go into the bathroom. I get there like four minutes
before I go into the bathroom, I wash my face,
(39:32):
I get my shit together, and I start and I
do my thing, and I can't remember anyway. Towards the end,
I mentioned what my what had happened not and I
lost my shit. I lost my shit and I didn't
(39:55):
like thought, but I just and I was in front
of this whole group and I just I started crying,
and then I started to apologize for crying, and then
like one of the ladies actually came up and hugged me,
which was beautiful, but then it made it worse, Like
(40:15):
now I'm really fucked. Oh my god, I'd forgotten about
that till we started talking about my dad's thing. But yeah,
it's like I've had some really interesting moments on stage,
and I like, I look at that, and I think
they could have been really angry with me, because nobody
wants that dude up on the stage, Like, oh, we
(40:39):
get in this inspirational guy who starts crying, and I'm like,
fucking hell, if you guys want your money back and
more let me know that they were very gracious and
very kind.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
What did you learn? Did you learn something out of
that about you personally or professional?
Speaker 3 (40:59):
I it's like, yeah, what did I learn? Well, practically,
I would. I realized later I shouldn't. I didn't know
that it was going to be. I thought there would
be an hour's gap and I would be able to
get myself together, but there wasn't. So in hindschight, maybe
(41:19):
I shouldn't have done it. But as it turns out,
they I got more positive. I didn't really get any negative.
Maybe they just felt sorry for me. But I just
think that, you know, without being without being an attention
seeker or It's like when I did the podcast the
other day about and the podcast was called I've had
(41:42):
a pretty shit week or whatever. Right now, I've never
had a negative title in all of my podcasts, and
I've never got on and ever tried to seek sympathy
or pity or and I definitely wasn't doing it with that.
But my motivation was, well, my reasoning was, I really
(42:03):
had had had a ship week with other people as well,
and I thought I don't want to and I was
doing a solo one, It was just me, I don't
want to get on here and pretend I'm happy. I
don't want to get on here, And I thought, why
don't I just get on and without making it, without
trying to make it depressing or sad, just go. So
(42:26):
this is, you know, this is the guy that's always
trying to inspire and inform and educate and all that stuff.
Tell you a story makes you laugh. Here's that guy
who's honestly had a count of a week. Let's be honest, right,
and and and just to talk about that, because I think,
(42:46):
you know, and then to talk about how I'd kind
of navigated that. Not that I did a stellar job,
but I could have done worse. I guess. I think
that's part of the biggest compliment for me, is that
about this show is that people relate to it, really
(43:06):
relate to it, and relate to the conversations and hopefully
us today and rather than getting on going, hey, everybody,
here's how you deal with sadness. Here's how you deal
with depression and tough situations. Get out your pen and
paper step one. Step one, think positive things. Step two.
(43:28):
Get in nature, get your toes in the sands. Step
three just self, feel what you feel. Step four, what's
your rom Come, We'll be back tomorrow. You know. It's
like it's sometimes I think, fuck, is this even good
to listen to? Like when I finished that solo the
other day with me just banging on about the week,
(43:51):
I sent it to Melissa or Melissa had a listen
and I went, was that dog shit? And she goes, no.
I'm like, because I I feel like I don't want
to put something up that is just going to make
people sad or the pressed or But I think that's
the beauty of even you know, in life there are
peaks and troughs, and in eight years of broadcasting a show,
(44:13):
there are peaks and troughs. And I think that people
when I look up to someone or have learned from
someone and it seems like they never have a problem,
well I can't relate really. But when I see that, oh,
they're navigating hard things as well, I'm more likely to
(44:35):
lean in and pay attention and I can still learn,
you know, and I can go, oh, well, this happened
to Craig and this is what he did, Which is
not say anyone else should do what I did or
react how I did, but but just knowing that, Yeah, no,
of course things are shit sometimes. Of course I get angry,
of course they get frustrated. Of course I want to
(44:55):
fucking punch someone in the face. I wouldn't. I wouldn't though,
but that you know, that feeling. It's like, you know, sometimes,
especially when you've got an eighty six year old dad,
sometimes without saying anything specifically, fuck, sometimes I feel like
for some people, oh, he's just a problem. It's like
(45:17):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, we're here, I'm sorry, my dad's
eighty six, and that you have to you know, you're like,
fuck and hell, you know, it's like ah. But then
me being that way outwardly fixes nothing, in fact creates
more problems. So me needing to and also understanding the
(45:38):
greater context and you know, in hospitals like we were in,
where everyone's trying and it's busy and they're under resourced
and over demanded and if that's a word, and yeah, me,
then me trying to manage me in the middle of
all of that, so that I'm the best for Dad
and the best for mum and also a decent human
(45:59):
for other people to be around. Yeah, it's an exercise
in self control and self management, and you know, I.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Think it's also really nice that episode. Like one thing
that you're probably not the very very very best at
is letting people hold space for you and care about you.
And I think letting that that's soft.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Fuck that, letting the t one that I didn't need
any of that, that I'm an island. I'm an island humanity,
I'm an island. Don't throw your boat over here, fuck
off with your boat, but just.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Not like not just being showing up for the typ
community to be a lesson, but let them hold the
space and go, hey, we're fucking here for you. Like
I don't think you understand how beneficial that is for you,
Like we want to do that. Everyone that follows you
in that group wants to wants to say you something,
(47:01):
to let you know that they're all here and that
they love that you're human, and like that's a gift.
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Sorry you broke up. I didn't hear any of that.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Sorry, you're also a bit of a fuck with.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Yeah, Well, thank you, and thank you to everybody for
all the nice things I've got, like lots and lots
of lots of love and lots of yeah, lots of support,
and also, you know, via a messenger and all kinds
of shit. It's been I don't have a chicken casserole,
so if somebody wants to reach out with food, that's
(47:37):
probably my love language. It's probably my love language chicken casserole.
No pressure thee oh box. All right, before you make
me cry, I'm going to wind it up. If it's
been bu congrats on your speaking kind of it's not
(47:57):
your debut, but on a big stage. Was your speaking
debut to the world. That's fucking you opening the door
to the big time. So well done. Congrats and thanks
for hanging out with me for an hour or so.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Thank you, she said, it's now never.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
I got fighting in my blood, got it it
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.