July 23, 2025 • 60 mins
Craig Harper and I got into the nitty-gritty of who we are versus who we want to be, and what happens in that messy middle space. We unpacked emotional reactions that don't match our best intentions, how old wounds still sneak into our current behaviors, and why real personal growth isn’t sexy- it’s reps and sets, falling down, and showing up again. Craig shared his thoughts on self-awareness, regulating emotions, chasing meaning over metrics, and the ongoing wrestle between ambition and contentment. We also talked ego, insecurity, values, and why some of our 'f*ck ups' might actually be the gateway to becoming who we’re meant to be.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is role with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
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Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot Aukray Anthony Haffner, can I
(00:53):
please have your attention the start of the show?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Shit shit right, I'm ready, I'm ready. I feel I
should have dressed up. Also, i'd have known that was happening.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
It's very fancy when you come on my show, very
fancy over here headquarters.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, if anyone was watching what happened over the last
ten minutes, they would have thought, with the most technically
inept motherfucker's on the planet, Because me who knows nothing,
you who knows relatively everything, between us. We couldn't get
the echo to echo to echo to stop to stop.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Very clever of you. I'm using a new platform, and yes,
I've should have known that if anyone was going to
come in and be problematic, it'd be you.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yes, but you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I've got Yeah, I've got big hopes and dreams for
this episode. I wanted to I wanted to have a
chat with you. So are you ready? Are you ready
to bring your best? Well?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I don't know, like people might think we're making this up,
I actually don't know at all what we're talking about.
We haven't spoken one bit about the content. You've just
been yelling at me to wear my head and then
telling me, telling me that my background looks shit, my
office looks shit, and can you get one of those
fake background I mean, firstly, I'm not getting paid for that.
(02:12):
I'm not getting paid. I'm definitely not getting paid for
the abuse that I take. I'm old, you need to
be delicate with me. I'm a precious little thing.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Now I am a bit bossy.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I feel like this is elderly abuse. That's what it's like.
That's what I don't I mean, it could be a
cry for help everyone. I'm not sure. We'll see how
it goes. I'll let you guys, let the audience monitor
see whether or not there needs to be an intervention.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
All right, Well, I'm sure they'll let us know. Hey,
we had a coffee the other day and we were
having a chat and I I've been thinking about it
for the last couple of days, yes, and thought that
it would make any And it's not something that we
have talked about before. But I don't think we've talked
about it in depth. And I think it's one of
those things that evolves and it it's just been playing
(03:08):
on my mind, so I wanted to talk about it.
Do you remember what we were talking about?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, we didn't. We spend an hour together. I don't
know which bit when we were talking about your presentation
and and no.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Not that, not that specifically we were talking. So I
know I ended up because we have talked about this
stuff before. I was like, well, have a bit of
a riff. But I also spent some time writing down
some questions, so I might we're gonna have a chat
and then I might refer to some of these questions
and just you can just riff on them. It was
about that idea. It's the concept for me of the
(03:47):
space between who we are and who we want to
be and the experience of being emotional beings in the
middle of that, trying to put it all together that
and have perspective. Yeah, yea, So we were talking about
times when we I, you, I know I have I'm saying,
(04:11):
there's been times when I have had emotional responses to
situations that aren't in alignment with how I want to
support people or how I want to feel. But despite
that desire and that sense of self in a moment,
sometimes I emotionally react differently.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah. Well, I mean the idea of you know, when
we think about personal development and human behavior and psychology
and self help and all of the stuff that's in
your wheelhouse and my wheelhouse, we're talking like right now,
you know, methodically and logically, and you know, we're exploring
these concepts and constructs with our brain, and we're you know,
(04:53):
we're trying to in a way understand things, solve problems, plans, strategize.
You know, who I want to be and how I
want to be moving forward is very much a cognitive process.
I want to be leaner or I want to be healthier.
I want to be less reactive. I want to be
more calm. I want to be more empathetic, more aware.
(05:15):
I want to be a kind of human. I want
to be a values driven person. I want to walk
my talk. I want to live in alignment. Blah blah blah.
All of these are ideas and concepts and intentions. None
of those things are emotions. But the problem with us
is we are. We're very logical when we're planning and
(05:36):
strategizing and timelining and building a protocol and an operating system,
and then the kaka hits the fan and we're emotional idiots.
We're like all the fucking reason and logic and planning
and intentions and strategies and structure and who I am
and who I want to be and over the next
twelve months, so I'm going to do this and do that,
(05:56):
and that's good. But quite often we defer to who
we've been and how we've been, rather than who we
want to be and how we want to be. So
it's trying to be really practical. Am I an emotional creature?
Yes I am, because we all are. That doesn't mean
that you're having a breakdown or crying every day. It
(06:17):
could be different emotions that drive you. But you know,
the logic and the kind of intention of how I
want to be moving forward isn't a natural byproduct in
the future just because I want it, Like, we need
to do the work. And like I think I said
to you the other day something like like you and
(06:40):
I let full full disclosure. You can edit this if
you want, but I'm not going to say anything that's
not true. So you and I had, let's call it
a moment. We had a moment about a month or
two ago where there was just some shit that went
down that wasn't nothing you know, dark or sinister, but
(07:00):
and it was really a lack of communication and misunderstanding
and maybe both of us are assuming things that weren't true.
Right And then in the middle, now both of us
were pretty emotional, you know, not yelling and screaming, but
(07:20):
it was just like but and even you know me,
who does what I do and I teach all this
stuff and I talk about it and I write about it,
and I'm doing a doctorate in it and all that stuff.
Underneath all of you know, the knowledge and awareness and
whatever academic bullshit, I'm still an emotional human, you know,
(07:41):
and it's trying to regulate and manage and navigate emotions
moving forward, which I think quite often is the biggest determinant.
It's like everyone's a theoretical champion. But let me see
how you do all this stuff when you are emotional,
when you are angry, when you are depressed, when you
(08:02):
are and I'm not saying it's easy, by the way,
but in the middle of the emotional turmoil and shitfest
that is just day to day for most of us
at times, trying to be that thing that you want
to become. That's where the rubber hits the road, and
that's where it's just sets and reps. It's just repetition.
(08:23):
It's just like up, yep, fucked up, you know, fuck up,
step up, fuck up, step up, you know, fuck up less,
step up more, fuck up less, step up more, and
eventually there might be you know, that thing that used
to trigger you doesn't trigger you, or it doesn't trigger
you as much, or that feeling that you used to
have when someone did that thing or said that thing.
That's not a nine out of ten, that's a three
(08:44):
out of ten. Now that's not because the stimulus is different.
Or what they're saying is different. It's that you are
now different because you've done the work. You know, it's
real personal to grow, real personal growth is it's tough.
It's not an idea, and it's not a book, and
it's not a workshop, and it's not a podcast, and
(09:05):
it's not a conversation between harps and tip. It's a
fucking roll your sleeves up, get uncomfortable, stay uncomfortable, get
back up. Repeat. You know that's it for That doesn't
mean that it's you know, it's this perpetual bag of misery.
It's not. But you know, real growth, real resilience, real development,
(09:28):
real adaptation, real evolution does not happen in comfort or fun.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I know when with the surface though, when I think
back to surface level stuff, and I and I've known
this for a long time and been mindful of it,
that I had this great ability, which I think most
people do, of making decisions and then justifying them and
believing them afterwards to a version that it's so, why
(09:58):
didn't I Why didn't I finish that thing? Why didn't
I keep going in that direction? Why did I give up?
Why do I self sabotage and realizing that I talk
a bit of bullshit and then I believe it, Like
I make decisions based on emotion, and then I come
up with a comfortable story and I don't even analyze that.
(10:19):
And I think these days, I see that now that
plays out in a way more maybe more detrimental way
in relationships because they're more emotional and then they involve
other people and interactions. They're not just facts. They're not
just oh, I did this thing. It's oh, there's my
side of the story and my experience in my version
(10:42):
of what I've put together because I had a feeling
and an emotion about a thing that I mightn't even
be consciously aware of.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yes, well, what you're talking about is really high level
self awareness, which is it's a challenge, you know, it's
and you know, we don't like being wrong. We don't
like going, hey, look there's some shit going on and
on the problem How many people say that? How many
(11:11):
people have come to me over the years and spoken
to me about a problematic relationship with their mom, or
with their partner, or with their boss, or with their
next door neighbor or whoever, and going, ah, there's all
this shit going on with such and such and I'm
the problem, like nobody says that. Nobody says that because
they don't want to be the problem. But you know,
(11:32):
and there are, of course, there are times when the
person you are talking to actually isn't the problem at all,
but it is tough to realize that. You know, for
most of us, we're going to be at least part
of the problem most of the time. And that's you know,
there's that almost like that four step step self awareness process,
(11:57):
which is a step one as self reflection, is where
you really deeply just ponder and consider like what's going on,
and then your role in that and your part in that,
and you know, there's the event as you spoke about
or the thing that happens, then your response to it.
So this is really in the self reflection phase where
you're trying to without i mean easier said than done,
(12:20):
but without too much emotion, just reflect on what's happening.
And then the next step of that is when you go, oh, well,
this is what's happening, this is what I'm doing and
not doing, which is self awareness. And then step three
of that is self regulation, now where you realize the
thing you need to try and manage or regulate yourself
your behavior, your emotions, your words, your actions and reactions,
(12:42):
your outcomes differently. And then the fourth step of that
is self actualization, where oh, you are becoming the person
you want to become. You are, you are, how you
want to be and who you want to be. And
so for people who want to take notes, I'll say
it again, so like self reflection, that's the part where
(13:03):
you're just like as objective as you can or objectively
as you can, which is easier said than done always,
but try to just go okay, and what is really
going on? Is this about Tiff? Is this about me?
Is this about both of us? Did that thing that
she was she really the problem was, you know whatever.
So we're just we're just trying to consider the thing
(13:24):
that's going on in our role in the thing that's
going on. And then once we can acknowledge or have
that level of awareness, now we're in self awareness, which
is good, and that level of self awareness opens a
door for us to be able to try to change
around that, you know, which is self regulation. And then
through that process, then we become over time, with that
(13:48):
humility and that awareness and that process and that work,
we become different, which is, you know, a form of
self actualization where you're becoming who you want to be
and how you want to be, even if all the
stimuli around you are similar or identical, or the situation
or the circumstance or the people or the job or
the task or the challenge is kind of the same.
(14:10):
Now because you've done the work, you're different, and so
the experience for you is different, and also the experience
of you for others is different.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
How do you deal with when we like, feelings of
jealousy or insecurity or the stuff that pops up, how
do you acknowledge those feelings and separate them or manage
them around the behavior that you want to exhibit.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, so that's a really good question. So let's go
for me, or not for me necessarily, but for anyone.
I'm just trying to think of some of those So jealousy, insecurity, resentment, fear,
which is more global than just a negative, but it's
a disempowering belief anyway or state or feeling. So fear, resentment, jealousy, insecurity,
(15:12):
I reckon even like indifferent sometimes. But I think the
way that this in the context of this kind of
awareness conversation. I try to treat it with curiosity. I'm like, oh,
that's interesting. I think I told you the other day
(15:32):
about the dude that would show me his motorbike out
the front of the cafe, you know, And so I'll
tell our listeners, your listeners. So a guy was, you know,
a newbie to motorbikes, and he had a new motorbike.
Good little motorbike. It was little. It was a two
point fifty, which, if you know anything about motorbikes, is
pretty small engine and all that. But great. He was
(15:52):
excited and I looked at the bike. I walked out
and I went, nice bike, you know, because I knew
it was new, and he looked like a learner, and
I said is it new? He said, oh, yeah, like
three months or whatever. I was just talking to him
and I said, well done, you know. And the funny
thing is I kind of realized a couple of seconds
(16:15):
after this encounter, I wanted him to go, oh, wow,
you know, are you into motorbikes because I wanted to
tell him about my motorbikes. Right, So I was in
this moment looking for approval, which is not insecure at all,
because and then maybe even I don't think so, but look,
maybe even just assert a little bit of superiority. Oh
(16:37):
well you've got that, I've got these. But he didn't ask.
And then I'm like, oh, fuck, this is hilarious. But
I'm pretty sure in the moment I became aware of
what Firstly, I did want to make him feel good,
and I did want to acknowledge his bike and say, hey,
you know, it's a jungle out there, ride safe and
all that stuff that I always say to new riders.
But I also wanted him to know that the shit
(16:59):
that I had in my garage right, because that's good
for my ego. And the funny thing was he didn't.
He wasn't at all interested and yeah, that's just that
where and after that, I'm like, oh, that is fucking hilarious.
At myself, I'm like, you are hilarious. Look at you.
(17:19):
You want to get the approval and recognition of some
person you've never met on Hampton Street. You want them
to be impressed by you, Like, what the fuck is
wrong with you? Mister fucking human behavior? You know all that,
but this is what we do, you know, And the
challenge with this is you are always going to fuck
(17:40):
up because you're human. We are always going to be
you know. It's like I wrote a thing yesterday about
being scared, or maybe it was this morning, I don't know,
but you know, you're always going to be a bit
scared of something. Being scared is not weakness, like being
insecure or resenting someone or being a bit jealous. Doesn't
(18:01):
mean you're a horrible person. It means that you're human.
But the challenge is in the middle of our humanity
to try to recognize what's going on, maybe have a
laugh at ourselves and go, hey, harps, come on, do better.
You don't need this, Like it's actually, mister Hay have
a purpose bigger than you. Just make him feel great
(18:23):
and fuck off, Like make him feel great and get
the fuck out of the way so you don't need
to take your ego for a run, you know, And
like all of that goes on in my head. You know,
in thirty seconds. It's great when you lean into your
own behavior and you start to really you know, metacognition
(18:48):
that open that metacognitive door of thinking about why you
think this way and why you talk this way, and
metacognition even spills into emotions and well, why I respond
this way. You know, these are great things to ask
if you are on the journey of I want to
be better than I currently.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Am, do you get curious about or do you think
what do you think feeds into those maybe reoccurring experiences
we might that we might have, and what can we
explore to start getting a better understanding of what we
might need out of running into them? If it's something
(19:30):
that happens all the time, like if that's a repetitive thing,
because the first thing that normally happens is with no
self awareness, we do that, we have that conversation, we
walked away like he was a bit of a dick,
and we don't even think about why we decided he's
a bit of a dick. We just go he was
a bit of a dick. Right.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
So I think some of the things, not all of
the things that some of the things that drive my
ah less these days, but still, you know it lingers
my need for people to like me or think I'm
good or you know, to belong or to be accepted
or is from being the kid who wasn't accepted and
(20:11):
didn't belong and all of that shit, right, and you know,
you can have all the knowledge you can get the whatever,
all the qualifications, all the knowledge or the understanding, all
the insight, it doesn't change who you are at your core.
It just changes what you know. It just changes your skills,
It just changes perhaps your awareness, but you're still you.
(20:33):
Like there's part of me that's still the fat fourteen
year old insecure. Please love me, please pick me, Please
let me belong to your group, please notice me. There's
part of me that and I know that it doesn't
run my life and it doesn't control me. But I
feel like with our psychological and emotional issues and even
(20:57):
mental health issues at times, I don't know that I
don't know that we have evidence that we truly, ever,
one hundred percent overcome them. I think what is more
likely is that turning it into a metaphor, let's say
(21:18):
that we turn down the volume on it and it
has at less of an influence on us and we
kind of coexist with it. Like I've said this many
times to you, I can get up to do a
corporate gig to a thousand people where I'm getting paid
lots of dough, I'm in a great, big room, and
(21:39):
there's like it would absolutely fill most people with terror
but I'm relatively confident and comfortable because I've done it
a lot. But also at the same time, I can
still be feeling not good enough and insecure, but I
just recognize that feeling for what it is. You know,
(22:00):
it's an idea or it's something that's a byproduct of,
you know, lots of years of not being the guy
up there that was accepted or whatever. So yeah, I
think to it. It's like I was talking with Dr
Jody about anxiety and the funny thing or one of
the interesting things about anxiety is and panic attacks, for example,
(22:22):
is you know, when someone's in the middle of a
panic attack, you feel like you're going to die, You
feel like your heart's going to stop, you like it's
the worst feeling of all time. But when you know,
like I've been around quite a few people having panic attacks,
and usually I'll say something like, how many times do
you reckon you've been through a panic attack? And they'll
(22:44):
often say hundreds, and I'll go and statistically, you didn't
die any of those times. I go, well that's good,
and they laugh a bit. I go, so, look, chances
are I mean, I'm not a guru in this space,
but look, probably not going to die and they laugh, right,
But here's the truth, Like we know, as horrible as
(23:04):
this feels, that's the emotion, that's the feeling, that's the physiology.
The knowledge is the awareness is the logic is I'll
get through this, do you know what I mean? So
I think the human experience is, you know, in the
one human is this collaboration and conflict and coexistence of
(23:28):
what we know and what we feel. And I think
that's every day all the time.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Do you feel like when you have moments of like
friction or fuck ups in this type of space, do
you feel like you go to a place of like broke,
like seeing that is where you're broken, or do you
(23:55):
go to a place of I'm at the edge of
a breakthrough that to learn something.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Yeah. Or the other option or another option, which is
more me is when I do something and this is
a bad thing that I do. This is I'm not
proud of this, but I get really angry at myself
for not doing good work. Like if I go and
(24:22):
I do a gig, I do a speaking giga workshop,
a keynodor and this got zero to do with the
money or the commercial viability of this or that it's
just yeah, when I when I make a mistake or
I don't think I've delivered what I could. Yeah, I'm
(24:46):
very hard on myself, Like I beat myself up, which
I shouldn't. But at the same time, yeah, like these things,
but I try to learn through that. I try to go, all, right, well,
what is that about? Like I told you before we started,
right and your listeners maybe don't know, but I've got
a thing called you station tube dysfunction, which is ETD,
(25:08):
And like, right now, my left ear is blocked and
there's no sympathy required or anything like that, but it's
this conversation is fifty percent harder right now than a
normal conversation for me because my voice is echoing in
my head right, so my left ear is totally blocked.
(25:30):
I can't hear out of my left ear. And this
just happens on and off. Listeners comes, it goes, and
there's no rhyme or reason. But it's been happening a lot.
I probably need to go have an operation, but I can't,
you know, I just go, well, it's here. I just
need to be as present and as focused and as
(25:51):
competent as I can, because I this is the funny
thing with me. I could do a thirty or forty
minute podcast with you where ten people listen, and I
know a lot more people listen than that, but where
ten people listen and it's you and me, And I
care as much about this being good as I do
a highly paid corporate gig to a thousand people, Because
(26:15):
for me, like talking to an audience where I'm sharing
you know, whatever, thoughts, ideas knowledge, information, inspiration where you
might impact one person, or more like, it's a real
responsibility and a privilege. So even though you know me
sitting right here in my office and you and your
(26:36):
office and me with my ear blocked and it's a
Saturday AVO and it's all a bit whatever, I still
care a lot. So I when I'm doing my thing,
I every single time I try and bring the best
version of me to that.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
What about you and self compassion?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Next, Yeah, I thought that must be a tough one.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I feel like you're really I feel like you're really
self aware, and I think I feel like you care deeply.
But I also think I get a sense that you
have a lot of boundaries around your own.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I don't know if you're I don't know how you
are with self compassion. I'm interested, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I'm not great at it. I mean I don't beat
myself up. I don't really Well that's not true. I
just said sometimes I do, but engineer like I don't
sit at home going you're a useless piece of shit.
I hate myself. You know, there's none of that. But look,
I mean this is you know, this is one of
those moments when you're on a podcast and you think, fuck,
(27:51):
do I keep opening the door or do I just
pull it a bit closed?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Open the door?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah? All right, So I don't this does sound like
self loathing. It isn't. I don't think highly of me
like I think at my core I'm a good person,
which is a very cheesy cliche thing to say, but
(28:18):
in terms of my talent and skills and yeah, I
I yeah, I you know, have been I was going
to say riddled with that sounds overwhelming, but like impacted
by self doubt my whole life, right, So I think,
And I think because a lot of you know, most
(28:41):
kids grow up and they're really talented at something, like
they're either really creative, or they can fucking run fast
or jump hile, or they can dance, or they're brilliant
at maths, or they can write incredibly or there. I
don't know, Like a lot of kids seem to have
something that they're just really naturally inherently great at, which
kind of becomes almost like a social badge or a
(29:03):
stepping stone to I wasn't at anything, and I'm like,
maybe the only thing I was kind of good at
because I had to be was communication, you know. It
was like chatting was like I always had kind of
the gift to the gab and that, you know, And
I literally got in trouble at school for that and
(29:23):
literally got told by more than one teacher, you know,
pull your head in. Nobody's ever going to pay to
listen to you speak, so you should do some work
so you can get a job. And they weren't even
trying to be They're like, hey, sure, shake, I know
you're great at talking, but that's not a job, So
just do your fucking maths, you know. And I'm like,
(29:45):
and at the time, I'm like, yeah, well that makes sense.
It turns out not totally true. Yeah, but look, I
don't like, I'm relatively content with who I am and
how I am and but I'm always not in an
anxious way, but I'm I'm always kind of tweaking and pushing,
(30:08):
and you know, I'm really curious about broadly human potential.
What we can do be, create, change, learn, how we
can evolve everything from you know, can you do a
PhD when you're not very academic and you're in your sixties?
There's that, and then there's well, how fit and strong
and healthy and functional can I be when I should
(30:30):
be on the slide? Or you know, it's like, how
can I start a new business when I'm sixty? Can
I learn new things? Can I can I get?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
You know?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
And then like with other people that I've worked with
the same thing, I'm like, oh wow, this person has
has never you know, been to university, or they've never
had a job for more than six months, or they've
never By the way, it doesn't matter if you go
to university, never been, whatever it is. And sometimes just
(31:04):
helping people unpack their own possibilities is so awesome, you know,
to go, oh, I know you've never done that thing,
but that doesn't mean you can't do the thing. You know,
and the thing could be owner pet do you know
what I mean? It doesn't need to be cure cancer
or join the space program. It could be, you know,
(31:27):
I spoke to a lady recently who's a hoarder and
she's just for the last year gotten over that and her,
you know, it's still it's like an addiction kind of,
And I was just talking to her about that. I'm like,
that is so interesting, and she feels amazing now because
she feels just liberated, and but she still has this
(31:51):
same compulsion although the volume's gone down, to just buy
more stuff and keep more stuff and not throw anything out.
But she's kind of got someone who helps her and
a bit of a plan in place, and you know,
so it might be that it might be overcoming an
addiction or you know, but I just think that people
are I think people inherently underestimate what they can do,
(32:16):
and not everyone can do everything, and not everyone can
run a marathon, and not everyone can you know, build
an amazing brand, and not everyone can sing beautifully, of course,
But I think that for most of us, what gets
in the way is not so much our innate ability
or our genetics or our IQ or our overall potential,
(32:43):
but rather how we think about all of that stuff
and the way that our mind and our fear gets
in the way of all of that stuff because we're
scared of failure, We're scared of embarrassment, we're scared of
looking silly, we're scared of being odd one out. You know.
We so want to belong that we'll just compromise a
(33:04):
shit out of ourselves to fit in. But in all
the fitting in, sometimes we lose ourselves because now there's
no me, there's just the member of this group to
which I belong. So I'm just a part of a
whole that we call the the whatever group. You know.
And if you, by the way, if you ask any questions,
(33:25):
or you doubt or you conflict, you know, you're out
of the group. And well then I better not ask
anything because I need to be in a group. So yeah,
it's and we're emotional and social creatures who want to belong.
So it's a dichotomy.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
How do you manage or have you had to manage
the tension between self improvement wanting to improve yourself and
be better and do better, but also accepting yourself as
you are in the moment. Has that been a journey
for you and is it still that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, that's a really clever question. Yeah, so I say
all the time, like I think the answer, like the
the way the juxtaposition between those two concepts that you
just spoke of, the kind of the antidote to wrap
around that is gratitude. Whereas I know that I'm very fortunate,
(34:27):
very blessed. I grew up in a great country with
great parents. I didn't grow up in poverty. I didn't
grow up in a war zone. I have a button
that I can press and my room gets cooler or warmer.
I have a tap that I can turn on and
cold fresh water comes out. I have a bed to
sleep in. I'm not broke, you know, all of these
(34:49):
amazing things. So it is, it is a It is
a challenge sometimes to be both ambitious. But I don't
mean ambitious in necessarily a commercial sense. I just mean
in wanting to keep learning, growing, evolving sense, but also
(35:10):
to be content. That is a real They almost think
they almost seem inconsistent those two things. So I can
tell you that if right now is the best my
life will ever be, I'm extremely happy and grateful right
So I'm glad with that, But I also know, well,
(35:33):
I've still got energy my brain still works, my body
still works. I can still learn, I can still help people,
I can still unlearn. So I'm going to keep doing that.
And when I reach my threshold, it's like there are
things I can't do now. I can't bench press like
I used to. I can't run as fast as I
used to. You know, I saw a photo of me
(35:53):
the other day that sent someone sent me, in fact,
Patrick sent me a photo of me, and I'm like,
fucking hell, I was Brad Pitt when I was thirty.
I wasn't really, but compared to now, when I look
like a fucking desert boot with a fucking flannel shirt on,
I look like somebody's granddad, I'm like, fucking hell, I'm
so old, I'm so you know, and I just go, yeah,
(36:17):
of course I am. I'm sixty one. Well, of course
you look like that. Of course your hairs gray. Of
course you've got renkals. Of course you don't look how
you once looked. And guess what that's okay, you know,
it's like it's all good. And in a minute i'll
be seventy or i'll be sixty five, and what will
be will be? You know, I think it's about I
(36:40):
don't think getting older means doesn't need to mean decline,
but I think in our culture it's really associated, you know,
while still being practical and realizing, of course I'm going
to die one day. Of course, I'm going to get
sick one day. Of course my brain's not going to
work like it currently does one day. Course, but that's
(37:01):
not now, that's not today, So I'll just keep going.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
What do you like with stillness? Are you ever still?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yeah? I'm surprisingly good. My mind is not like trying
to fucking turn off. My mind is but me just
hanging out by myself, me lying on my bed, watching
something me. You know, this morning, I was up at
quarter past five. I was walking around the streets of
Hampton's very still, very quiet. Saw nobody, spoke to nobody.
(37:32):
I'm just out moving like a fucking urban ninja.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
In the darkness.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, getting lat cramps, getting a double lat cramp from
doing heavy one arm rows in the cold morning.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, I'm okay that the thing, like, my mind is busy,
but more creative busy than fear busy, you know, anxiety
busy over like. I think a lot, but I don't overthink,
you know, overthinking well, for me, overthinking is about worry,
(38:09):
it's about fear, it's about anxiety. I don't generally have that,
but like I am constantly thinking about how do I
share the stuff that I know, stuff that I'm learning,
that I'm experiencing. You know, since I was eighteen years
old till now forty three years of life and work
(38:31):
and working with people and study and research and fucking
up and getting up and falling down and getting back
up and getting things wrong and getting things right. And
I look around the world and I don't see people
getting better. I see more anxiety. I see more mental
health issues. I see more isolation and loneliness and disconnection
(38:52):
and confusion. And maybe it's just what I'm seeing, maybe
that's not true, maybe that's just my truth, but it
seems to me that the issues are not going away.
There may be escalating. And so I think, while totally acknowledging,
I'm not the solution to anything or for anyone, but
maybe I could be a valuable servant to people. I
(39:17):
could be a resource for people. Somebody could bump into
me metaphorically and take away an idea or a thought
or a strategy or some encouragement that makes one percent
different difference, you know, And that's what I want to do.
And even when you know I've said this many times,
(39:37):
even when people come to me and say, you know,
I came to an event or a read a book,
or I did this or I did that, and you
changed my life, which you know, I don't get that
every day, that's for sure, but people say that reasonably regularly,
and every single time I reject that idea, and I
tell them, and I'm not being falsely humble. I go,
(39:59):
you changed your life like I might have. I might
have had an impact or an influence on you, but
ultimately you did the work, you made the decision, you found,
the resilience you found, the courage you kept going when
you couldn't be bothered, you know. And so I love
that I can be that influence on people and hopefully
(40:20):
help people understand their personal power, which I know sounds cliche,
but it's like, I know all the stuff that I've done.
And if you told me when I was eighteen years
old that I would, you know, I would work on Telly,
I would work in radio, I would have one of
you know, the biggest podcasts in Australia. I'd write lots
of books. I'd go to university a couple of times.
(40:41):
I do like And there's no bragging in that, because
I'm still fucking amazed. If you had to told me that,
I absolutely wouldn't have believed it. And I say I
wouldn't have believed it because I know how gifted I'm not.
And that's not me hating on me, that's just me.
That's just me being honest. And I say that one
(41:05):
because it's two true, and two because I want to
encourage other people. It's like, here's what goes on in
the world. We love to tell everyone, Oh, you're special,
you're amazing, you're unique, you're this, you're that. You know.
Maybe you're not, though, like and that's okay that you're
not like I'm not. Maybe you're average. Maybe average is fine.
Maybe it's some things you're pretty good. Maybe it's some
(41:27):
things you suck that's cool. Maybe you are gifted and
if you are well done, but that's nothing that you earned,
that's what you were born with. You know, you might
earn skill, you might develop skill, you might develop confidence,
you might build courage and resilience, and you might create
bigger and better results. You should be proud of all
(41:48):
of that. But if you were born with incredible genetics,
then pride is not the right emotion. Gratitude is the
right emotion. If you can run fast, jump, Hi, you're beautiful,
or you're you're a genius, or just be grateful. Don't
be proud, be grateful. Be proud of the shit that
you achieve and do and the people that you help
(42:10):
with those gifts.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Did you find the I.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Feel like I just turned into the Delilama for three minutes?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Says no, it's good. Do you feel like your perception
of the things that you have achieved your perception of
them changed when they became your achievement and did you
have to deliberately acknowledge them? Did they shift? Did having
you know, one of the biggest podcasts in Australia all
(42:38):
of a sudden not become a big deal because now
all of a sudden, it's you and you're like, well this, like, yeah,
tell me about that experience.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Yeah, that's interesting because I think I think we have
this thing that a lot of us do. And if
this isn't you listener, I apologize, but I think we
grow up. And you've heard me say this too many times.
But I think we grow up in this mindset that says, tiff,
when you have this or own that, or achieve that
(43:07):
you know, or do that or be that, or look
like that, or get this many listeners or get this
many followers or get this much attention, or then that's success.
And I think we think that, well, when I have
and own and earn and look like, then I'm going
to be happy or I'm going to be fulfilled, or
the anxiety is going to go away, or the self
(43:29):
doubt will be gone, or my life will be ace
or I'll be ace in the middle of my life.
But the guy who was you know, had five businesses
in his early thirties and one hundred and staff and
all of that, who was probably more mentally and emotionally
fucked up than ten years before. I'm like, oh, one
(43:51):
doesn't equal the other necessarily. So I think there's the
and this is my what I call and other people
call it different things, but I call it my two
world theory, where you know, there's our physical world, which
is seen, it's practical, it's observable by others, it's three dimensional,
and then there's the other world, you know, the unseen,
(44:13):
the invisible, the emotional, psychological, the creative, you know, and
while we do life in the physical, three dimensional world,
we do living in the internal world. And so but
when we talk about success in our culture, tiffany An Kook,
invariably we talk about all the stuff that people can see, right,
(44:36):
But what happens when you know, It's like I was
talking to you this morning, and at the moment, in
the last thirty days, I've got seven point one million
bloody views on my Instagram, and I'm like, it's funny.
It doesn't make me at all happier than when I
got one. In fact, I think I was happier when
(44:56):
I had one, and not that I'm unhappy or disor
or discontented or like, it's just like, oh, so when
I had one, when I woke up one day and
I looked at my Instagram and it said, You've had
one million views in the last thirty days, all right,
So we had a little moment, little tech because TIFF's
(45:18):
got gone you know, rogue, and she's using some other
platform which clearly is inferior, that's right. Yeah, So I
was talking about, yeah, like this essentially, I was talking
about how you know, when I got a million views
in a month. I'm like, this is fucking incredible, and
I felt good, and you know, not that it wasn't
a goal. I just saw it. I was surprised and
(45:39):
I went wow, and then I went how much can
I get? Or you know, wow, wow, and then I
started just paying attention to it. And today it's like
I said, seven point one million, which is but it's
funny the way that it makes me feel now in
terms of my emotional end or psychological response is different.
And it's like, it's so funny because you know, things
(46:01):
only in this context, with this conversation about this kind
of stuff. They only have the meaning that you give them.
And if you go, oh, one million is incredible, and
you believe it's incredible, you believe it's a great achievement,
or it's a good outcome, or it's whatever, then you
have a correlated experience. You have that psychological and emotional response.
(46:25):
But if your story is seven point one million is shit.
I can do better. But despite the fact that the
numbers have seven x, your experience is negative or is
at the very least not what it once was at
the million. So what's my point? My point is We're
always creating results and outcomes. There's always stuff happening in
(46:47):
our world, you know, conversation, situation, circumstances, you know whatever.
And then in the middle of all of that external, measurable,
observable stuff is Tiff, who interprets it all, who tells
herself a story about it. This is good, this is bad,
this is positive, this is negative. He's scary, he's nice,
(47:09):
she's a witch, she's an angel. This podcast's going shit.
This podcast's going like. We are constantly creating our own
reality while not at all thinking we're creating our own
reality because the window through which we view the world,
process the world, give meaning to the world in the moment,
(47:30):
we don't see it, we don't experience it. So we
think that our reality, our subjective reality, which we all
have one, is the objective reality. But also then when
you do a deeper dive and you go, okay, so
what is the What is the kind of success that
(47:51):
I'm looking for internally? What is like we all want
to be successful cool? What does that mean as an
emotional state? What does success mean in terms of my psychology?
What does success mean in terms of my spiritual bank account?
What the fuck is a spiritual bank account, you know
all of that. Like, you know, what opened the door
(48:13):
on this for me was being a young personal trainer
and I mean twenty two twenty three, so twenty three
was nine and eighty six for me, twenty four nine
and eighty seven and so on. I remember having several
clients and I mean five six seven at this stage
who were multimillionaires. Now this is back when a million
(48:35):
dollars was like like very few people at a million dollars,
like the average home was I don't know, one hundred grand, right,
so to be. And I had clients who are multimillionaires,
and I'm training them, and you know, as the more
that I got to know them, and not all of them,
but often I'm like, oh wow, I'm a twenty three
year old, four year old personal trainer driving an orange
(48:57):
Cortina station wagon which is a piece of shit, and
I'm renting a house and I've got a motorbike which
is pretty much ready to fall apart, and I've got
fucking six friends, and I'm way happier than you. I'm like,
what is that about? And I'm way less insecure than you,
And I was pretty insecure but I'm like, oh wow,
(49:20):
And so for me that wasn't a judgment of them,
but rather an experience of them and an awareness. And
I'm like, oh, it was great for me because I
somehow in my subconscious assumed that once I had a
lot more stuff and a lot better stuff, that I
(49:40):
almost definitely would be happier. I'd be less stressed, I'd
be less anxious, you know, Not that I was miserable,
but I just thought more stuff and better stuff equals
a better experience for me. And while that seems to
make sense, and it does make sense certain people up
(50:01):
to a certain financial level. Obviously, if you're really really
struggling to pay for your kids kids school fees, or
feed the kids, or feed yourself for bioshoes, well, of
course then money money can really impact psychological emotional states,
of course, but beyond a certain point, it's like there's
no necessarily there's no positive correlation, you know, So then
(50:25):
it just then you just start to think about, you know,
what actually is success for me? Not what does everybody
say it is, not what is culture and media and
social media say it is. But away from the idea
and the sales pitch and the marketing. What truly is
it for me? What truly matters to me? I'll shut
(50:46):
up after this, when I sit down in the stillness
that you just spoke about, and I go, Okay, no
one's looking, no one's listening. There's no fucking fanfare. I'm
not on a podcast. I'm not writing this for social media.
I'm not I'm not looking for attention or accolades or approval.
What really matters to me, you know, what really matters,
(51:08):
and what really doesn't matter to me is how many
people look at my Instagram. It's like, that's not a
core value. It's nice, But what really matters to me
is that my mum and dad are okay, that my
dad's cognitive decline, you know, which is normal. He's not,
(51:28):
you know, but it's like that he's okay. You know that.
What matters to me is that the people that I
love are okay. What matters to me is that I
don't do dumb shit to my body, that I this
thing that I can't replace, this gift that God or
the universe or whatever your believe system is bestowed on me,
(51:50):
that it works as well as it can. That's a
value for me, you know. And then once you know
what those values are, then you kind of know where
to go, you kind of which path to take, and yeah,
you can do some bullshit along the way. You know,
you can get lots of listeners and followers and by
yourself some shit. There's nothing wrong with that, But none
(52:10):
of that is your purpose. None of those things are
your values.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
I love that, all right. So last question or last
bit of advice for people listening that are feeling that
they feel misaligned and exhausted and stuck on autopilot, maybe
behaving or reacting out of alignment to who they really
want to be. What's the first brave move they can make?
Speaker 3 (52:40):
All right? So I'm going to give you three things.
Hang on, let me just write them down before I
forget them. So one is a treasure hunt, two is values,
and three is current behaviors. So let's go backwards. So
current behaviors. So do a stock take Easier said than done,
(53:03):
but do a stock take on all the shit you
currently do that's done, Like, how are you currently self sabotaging?
How are you currently getting in your own way? And
let me give you an example. You might hold these
two opposing things. They might be true for you. Truth
number one is I want to be the best version
(53:26):
of me physically. You know, I don't want to run
a marathon necessarily. I don't want to be a mister
or miss World. But I want to be the best
shape that I can be for my genetic potential at
my age. That's truth number one. Truth number two is
I eat shit every day. Right, They're both true. Those
(53:47):
things are simultaneously true. They are simultaneously representative of you,
but they are inconsistent with your values. Right, So the
behavior is completely out of alignment with who you want
to be and how you want to be. So you're
basically shooting yourself in the foot with your choices, with
(54:08):
your behavior, with your lifestyle and so on. So that's
number one. Get real, don't beat yourself up. Remember self reflection,
self awareness, self regulation, self actualization. That nowhere in that
list is self loathing. Right, Just be honest, be brave. Right.
So number one is just do a stock take on
all the shit that you're currently doing that doesn't serve you.
(54:32):
Number two is values. Is what we just spoke about,
So get clear about what matters to you. And the
beauty about identifying your values is that can become moving
forward from today if you like, that can become your
sat NAV, That can become your like, oh what should
(54:53):
I do here? Or what do your value say? What
aligns with your values? You know? It's like if TIF
I got an opportunity for a sponsor on your podcast
and it was with a product that you wouldn't use,
that you didn't like, that didn't represent your philosophy around
health or whatever, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't sell it.
(55:15):
Even if they went, TIF, we're going to give you
twenty grand, it's a two month sponsorship deal. I'm pretty
sure you would go fuck. I would love the dough,
but I can't sell that because I wouldn't use it
and I wouldn't want my friends to use it. Right,
So that's when we make values driven decision and embrace
values driven behaviors. What was the third thing I said?
Speaker 2 (55:40):
I gotted treasure Hunt, Treasure Hunt, Treasure Hunt.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
Thank you, And that just means yeah, like on top
of the stock take about what we're doing that we
need to change. Also hit the pause button and close
your eyes and go what's great about my life? And
I I'm not big on encouraging people to compare themselves
(56:04):
to anyone. However, for this little activity, it doesn't hurt.
You know, I compare myself to people who can't get
out of a chair. I compare myself to people who
don't have anyone that loves them, or I don't compare,
but I have that awareness that not everyone like me
(56:26):
can get out of my chair, walk down the stairs,
make myself a cup of tea. I'm so grateful for that.
I'm so grateful that a few people love me unconditionally.
I'm so grateful for that. I'm so grateful that I
get an opportunity to do this with you. And that
sounds cheesy and bullshit, but I'm grateful. Like if I
wasn't grateful, I wouldn't be talking for over an hour.
(56:50):
You know. It's like, because this is a good opportunity
maybe to help a few people. You know, I'm grateful
that I get paid to do shit that I love
to do, to go and talk to people. It's like
I would do it for free.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
It's like this shoes don't tell them.
Speaker 3 (57:07):
Well, in the context of my business, yeah, well, you
know they're not getting it for free. But you know,
I would say, you know, thirty percent of the work
in inverted commas that I do, I don't get paid for,
and I happily don't, you know if and I can't
do everything for everyone. But you know, I love helping people.
(57:28):
And I don't love helping people because it's financially viable.
I just love helping people, you know, And that's like
that is and I know that sounds cheesy, yeah, but anyway,
So they're my three things. They're my thoughts, they're my suggestions.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
I love that, thank you. What are you coming up
in the world of harps and typ that everyone can
get around? I know there's a little what's that. I
know there's a little bit happening soon.
Speaker 3 (57:58):
We're launching some live events and we're going to I
think we're going to Sydney and bris Vegas or maybe
the Sunshine Coast or Goldie, not sure, Perth, Adelaide Melbs.
Of course, I'm doing a workshop and new workshop which
is called the You Experiment. The You Experiment which is
essentially talking about it's around the idea that different things
(58:22):
work for different people. You know, there's not one set
protocol that suits everybody to create the same outcome, and
so we're talking about trying to understand how we work mentally, emotionally, physiologically, personally, professionally,
all that stuff. We just lean into that. And of
course you might be talking about the fact that we're
doing a retreat in Queensland. Can't announce all of that yet,
(58:46):
but because we haven't locked in the dates. But I'm
doing what will probably be a four night, five day extravaganza, nah,
change of life extravaganza up in the Sunshine States. So
(59:06):
that'll be announced very soon, all the details. And yeah,
I'm excited. Like my life is good. I'm lucky. You know,
I'm stumbling towards the finish line and my PhD. Even
in that it is like I bitch about it a
little bit, but truly it's it's it's been a real
growth experience. And like I.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Think, at least you don't call your friends every day
and go I fucking hate school.
Speaker 3 (59:32):
Yeah there's that. There's that. Yeah I know somebody who
does that. All right, well done, you.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
Carry on, Thanks harps, thanks everyone.
Speaker 1 (59:43):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
I started.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Please
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is role with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family
Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot Aukray Anthony Haffner, can I
(00:53):
please have your attention the start of the show?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Shit shit right, I'm ready, I'm ready. I feel I
should have dressed up. Also, i'd have known that was happening.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
It's very fancy when you come on my show, very
fancy over here headquarters.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, if anyone was watching what happened over the last
ten minutes, they would have thought, with the most technically
inept motherfucker's on the planet, Because me who knows nothing,
you who knows relatively everything, between us. We couldn't get
the echo to echo to echo to stop to stop.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Very clever of you. I'm using a new platform, and yes,
I've should have known that if anyone was going to
come in and be problematic, it'd be you.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yes, but you're welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
I've got Yeah, I've got big hopes and dreams for
this episode. I wanted to I wanted to have a
chat with you. So are you ready? Are you ready
to bring your best? Well?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I don't know, like people might think we're making this up,
I actually don't know at all what we're talking about.
We haven't spoken one bit about the content. You've just
been yelling at me to wear my head and then
telling me, telling me that my background looks shit, my
office looks shit, and can you get one of those
fake background I mean, firstly, I'm not getting paid for that.
(02:12):
I'm not getting paid. I'm definitely not getting paid for
the abuse that I take. I'm old, you need to
be delicate with me. I'm a precious little thing.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Now I am a bit bossy.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I feel like this is elderly abuse. That's what it's like.
That's what I don't I mean, it could be a
cry for help everyone. I'm not sure. We'll see how
it goes. I'll let you guys, let the audience monitor
see whether or not there needs to be an intervention.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
All right, Well, I'm sure they'll let us know. Hey,
we had a coffee the other day and we were
having a chat and I I've been thinking about it
for the last couple of days, yes, and thought that
it would make any And it's not something that we
have talked about before. But I don't think we've talked
about it in depth. And I think it's one of
those things that evolves and it it's just been playing
(03:08):
on my mind, so I wanted to talk about it.
Do you remember what we were talking about?
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, we didn't. We spend an hour together. I don't
know which bit when we were talking about your presentation
and and no.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Not that, not that specifically we were talking. So I
know I ended up because we have talked about this
stuff before. I was like, well, have a bit of
a riff. But I also spent some time writing down
some questions, so I might we're gonna have a chat
and then I might refer to some of these questions
and just you can just riff on them. It was
about that idea. It's the concept for me of the
(03:47):
space between who we are and who we want to
be and the experience of being emotional beings in the
middle of that, trying to put it all together that
and have perspective. Yeah, yea, So we were talking about
times when we I, you, I know I have I'm saying,
(04:11):
there's been times when I have had emotional responses to
situations that aren't in alignment with how I want to
support people or how I want to feel. But despite
that desire and that sense of self in a moment,
sometimes I emotionally react differently.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah. Well, I mean the idea of you know, when
we think about personal development and human behavior and psychology
and self help and all of the stuff that's in
your wheelhouse and my wheelhouse, we're talking like right now,
you know, methodically and logically, and you know, we're exploring
these concepts and constructs with our brain, and we're you know,
(04:53):
we're trying to in a way understand things, solve problems, plans, strategize.
You know, who I want to be and how I
want to be moving forward is very much a cognitive process.
I want to be leaner or I want to be healthier.
I want to be less reactive. I want to be
more calm. I want to be more empathetic, more aware.
(05:15):
I want to be a kind of human. I want
to be a values driven person. I want to walk
my talk. I want to live in alignment. Blah blah blah.
All of these are ideas and concepts and intentions. None
of those things are emotions. But the problem with us
is we are. We're very logical when we're planning and
(05:36):
strategizing and timelining and building a protocol and an operating system,
and then the kaka hits the fan and we're emotional idiots.
We're like all the fucking reason and logic and planning
and intentions and strategies and structure and who I am
and who I want to be and over the next
twelve months, so I'm going to do this and do that,
(05:56):
and that's good. But quite often we defer to who
we've been and how we've been, rather than who we
want to be and how we want to be. So
it's trying to be really practical. Am I an emotional creature?
Yes I am, because we all are. That doesn't mean
that you're having a breakdown or crying every day. It
(06:17):
could be different emotions that drive you. But you know,
the logic and the kind of intention of how I
want to be moving forward isn't a natural byproduct in
the future just because I want it, Like, we need
to do the work. And like I think I said
to you the other day something like like you and
(06:40):
I let full full disclosure. You can edit this if
you want, but I'm not going to say anything that's
not true. So you and I had, let's call it
a moment. We had a moment about a month or
two ago where there was just some shit that went
down that wasn't nothing you know, dark or sinister, but
(07:00):
and it was really a lack of communication and misunderstanding
and maybe both of us are assuming things that weren't true.
Right And then in the middle, now both of us
were pretty emotional, you know, not yelling and screaming, but
(07:20):
it was just like but and even you know me,
who does what I do and I teach all this
stuff and I talk about it and I write about it,
and I'm doing a doctorate in it and all that stuff.
Underneath all of you know, the knowledge and awareness and
whatever academic bullshit, I'm still an emotional human, you know,
(07:41):
and it's trying to regulate and manage and navigate emotions
moving forward, which I think quite often is the biggest determinant.
It's like everyone's a theoretical champion. But let me see
how you do all this stuff when you are emotional,
when you are angry, when you are depressed, when you
(08:02):
are and I'm not saying it's easy, by the way,
but in the middle of the emotional turmoil and shitfest
that is just day to day for most of us
at times, trying to be that thing that you want
to become. That's where the rubber hits the road, and
that's where it's just sets and reps. It's just repetition.
(08:23):
It's just like up, yep, fucked up, you know, fuck up,
step up, fuck up, step up, you know, fuck up less,
step up more, fuck up less, step up more, and
eventually there might be you know, that thing that used
to trigger you doesn't trigger you, or it doesn't trigger
you as much, or that feeling that you used to
have when someone did that thing or said that thing.
That's not a nine out of ten, that's a three
(08:44):
out of ten. Now that's not because the stimulus is different.
Or what they're saying is different. It's that you are
now different because you've done the work. You know, it's
real personal to grow, real personal growth is it's tough.
It's not an idea, and it's not a book, and
it's not a workshop, and it's not a podcast, and
(09:05):
it's not a conversation between harps and tip. It's a
fucking roll your sleeves up, get uncomfortable, stay uncomfortable, get
back up. Repeat. You know that's it for That doesn't
mean that it's you know, it's this perpetual bag of misery.
It's not. But you know, real growth, real resilience, real development,
(09:28):
real adaptation, real evolution does not happen in comfort or fun.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I know when with the surface though, when I think
back to surface level stuff, and I and I've known
this for a long time and been mindful of it,
that I had this great ability, which I think most
people do, of making decisions and then justifying them and
believing them afterwards to a version that it's so, why
(09:58):
didn't I Why didn't I finish that thing? Why didn't
I keep going in that direction? Why did I give up?
Why do I self sabotage and realizing that I talk
a bit of bullshit and then I believe it, Like
I make decisions based on emotion, and then I come
up with a comfortable story and I don't even analyze that.
(10:19):
And I think these days, I see that now that
plays out in a way more maybe more detrimental way
in relationships because they're more emotional and then they involve
other people and interactions. They're not just facts. They're not
just oh, I did this thing. It's oh, there's my
side of the story and my experience in my version
(10:42):
of what I've put together because I had a feeling
and an emotion about a thing that I mightn't even
be consciously aware of.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yes, well, what you're talking about is really high level
self awareness, which is it's a challenge, you know, it's
and you know, we don't like being wrong. We don't
like going, hey, look there's some shit going on and
on the problem How many people say that? How many
(11:11):
people have come to me over the years and spoken
to me about a problematic relationship with their mom, or
with their partner, or with their boss, or with their
next door neighbor or whoever, and going, ah, there's all
this shit going on with such and such and I'm
the problem, like nobody says that. Nobody says that because
they don't want to be the problem. But you know,
(11:32):
and there are, of course, there are times when the
person you are talking to actually isn't the problem at all,
but it is tough to realize that. You know, for
most of us, we're going to be at least part
of the problem most of the time. And that's you know,
there's that almost like that four step step self awareness process,
(11:57):
which is a step one as self reflection, is where
you really deeply just ponder and consider like what's going on,
and then your role in that and your part in that,
and you know, there's the event as you spoke about
or the thing that happens, then your response to it.
So this is really in the self reflection phase where
you're trying to without i mean easier said than done,
(12:20):
but without too much emotion, just reflect on what's happening.
And then the next step of that is when you go, oh, well,
this is what's happening, this is what I'm doing and
not doing, which is self awareness. And then step three
of that is self regulation, now where you realize the
thing you need to try and manage or regulate yourself
your behavior, your emotions, your words, your actions and reactions,
(12:42):
your outcomes differently. And then the fourth step of that
is self actualization, where oh, you are becoming the person
you want to become. You are, you are, how you
want to be and who you want to be. And
so for people who want to take notes, I'll say
it again, so like self reflection, that's the part where
(13:03):
you're just like as objective as you can or objectively
as you can, which is easier said than done always,
but try to just go okay, and what is really
going on? Is this about Tiff? Is this about me?
Is this about both of us? Did that thing that
she was she really the problem was, you know whatever.
So we're just we're just trying to consider the thing
(13:24):
that's going on in our role in the thing that's
going on. And then once we can acknowledge or have
that level of awareness, now we're in self awareness, which
is good, and that level of self awareness opens a
door for us to be able to try to change
around that, you know, which is self regulation. And then
through that process, then we become over time, with that
(13:48):
humility and that awareness and that process and that work,
we become different, which is, you know, a form of
self actualization where you're becoming who you want to be
and how you want to be, even if all the
stimuli around you are similar or identical, or the situation
or the circumstance or the people or the job or
the task or the challenge is kind of the same.
(14:10):
Now because you've done the work, you're different, and so
the experience for you is different, and also the experience
of you for others is different.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
How do you deal with when we like, feelings of
jealousy or insecurity or the stuff that pops up, how
do you acknowledge those feelings and separate them or manage
them around the behavior that you want to exhibit.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah, so that's a really good question. So let's go
for me, or not for me necessarily, but for anyone.
I'm just trying to think of some of those So jealousy, insecurity, resentment, fear,
which is more global than just a negative, but it's
a disempowering belief anyway or state or feeling. So fear, resentment, jealousy, insecurity,
(15:12):
I reckon even like indifferent sometimes. But I think the
way that this in the context of this kind of
awareness conversation. I try to treat it with curiosity. I'm like, oh,
that's interesting. I think I told you the other day
(15:32):
about the dude that would show me his motorbike out
the front of the cafe, you know, And so I'll
tell our listeners, your listeners. So a guy was, you know,
a newbie to motorbikes, and he had a new motorbike.
Good little motorbike. It was little. It was a two
point fifty, which, if you know anything about motorbikes, is
pretty small engine and all that. But great. He was
(15:52):
excited and I looked at the bike. I walked out
and I went, nice bike, you know, because I knew
it was new, and he looked like a learner, and
I said is it new? He said, oh, yeah, like
three months or whatever. I was just talking to him
and I said, well done, you know. And the funny
thing is I kind of realized a couple of seconds
(16:15):
after this encounter, I wanted him to go, oh, wow,
you know, are you into motorbikes because I wanted to
tell him about my motorbikes. Right, So I was in
this moment looking for approval, which is not insecure at all,
because and then maybe even I don't think so, but look,
maybe even just assert a little bit of superiority. Oh
(16:37):
well you've got that, I've got these. But he didn't ask.
And then I'm like, oh, fuck, this is hilarious. But
I'm pretty sure in the moment I became aware of
what Firstly, I did want to make him feel good,
and I did want to acknowledge his bike and say, hey,
you know, it's a jungle out there, ride safe and
all that stuff that I always say to new riders.
But I also wanted him to know that the shit
(16:59):
that I had in my garage right, because that's good
for my ego. And the funny thing was he didn't.
He wasn't at all interested and yeah, that's just that
where and after that, I'm like, oh, that is fucking hilarious.
At myself, I'm like, you are hilarious. Look at you.
(17:19):
You want to get the approval and recognition of some
person you've never met on Hampton Street. You want them
to be impressed by you, Like, what the fuck is
wrong with you? Mister fucking human behavior? You know all that,
but this is what we do, you know, And the
challenge with this is you are always going to fuck
(17:40):
up because you're human. We are always going to be
you know. It's like I wrote a thing yesterday about
being scared, or maybe it was this morning, I don't know,
but you know, you're always going to be a bit
scared of something. Being scared is not weakness, like being
insecure or resenting someone or being a bit jealous. Doesn't
(18:01):
mean you're a horrible person. It means that you're human.
But the challenge is in the middle of our humanity
to try to recognize what's going on, maybe have a
laugh at ourselves and go, hey, harps, come on, do better.
You don't need this, Like it's actually, mister Hay have
a purpose bigger than you. Just make him feel great
(18:23):
and fuck off, Like make him feel great and get
the fuck out of the way so you don't need
to take your ego for a run, you know, And
like all of that goes on in my head. You know,
in thirty seconds. It's great when you lean into your
own behavior and you start to really you know, metacognition
(18:48):
that open that metacognitive door of thinking about why you
think this way and why you talk this way, and
metacognition even spills into emotions and well, why I respond
this way. You know, these are great things to ask
if you are on the journey of I want to
be better than I currently.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Am, do you get curious about or do you think
what do you think feeds into those maybe reoccurring experiences
we might that we might have, and what can we
explore to start getting a better understanding of what we
might need out of running into them? If it's something
(19:30):
that happens all the time, like if that's a repetitive thing,
because the first thing that normally happens is with no
self awareness, we do that, we have that conversation, we
walked away like he was a bit of a dick,
and we don't even think about why we decided he's
a bit of a dick. We just go he was
a bit of a dick. Right.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
So I think some of the things, not all of
the things that some of the things that drive my
ah less these days, but still, you know it lingers
my need for people to like me or think I'm
good or you know, to belong or to be accepted
or is from being the kid who wasn't accepted and
(20:11):
didn't belong and all of that shit, right, and you know,
you can have all the knowledge you can get the whatever,
all the qualifications, all the knowledge or the understanding, all
the insight, it doesn't change who you are at your core.
It just changes what you know. It just changes your skills,
It just changes perhaps your awareness, but you're still you.
(20:33):
Like there's part of me that's still the fat fourteen
year old insecure. Please love me, please pick me, Please
let me belong to your group, please notice me. There's
part of me that and I know that it doesn't
run my life and it doesn't control me. But I
feel like with our psychological and emotional issues and even
(20:57):
mental health issues at times, I don't know that I
don't know that we have evidence that we truly, ever,
one hundred percent overcome them. I think what is more
likely is that turning it into a metaphor, let's say
(21:18):
that we turn down the volume on it and it
has at less of an influence on us and we
kind of coexist with it. Like I've said this many
times to you, I can get up to do a
corporate gig to a thousand people where I'm getting paid
lots of dough, I'm in a great, big room, and
(21:39):
there's like it would absolutely fill most people with terror
but I'm relatively confident and comfortable because I've done it
a lot. But also at the same time, I can
still be feeling not good enough and insecure, but I
just recognize that feeling for what it is. You know,
(22:00):
it's an idea or it's something that's a byproduct of,
you know, lots of years of not being the guy
up there that was accepted or whatever. So yeah, I
think to it. It's like I was talking with Dr
Jody about anxiety and the funny thing or one of
the interesting things about anxiety is and panic attacks, for example,
(22:22):
is you know, when someone's in the middle of a
panic attack, you feel like you're going to die, You
feel like your heart's going to stop, you like it's
the worst feeling of all time. But when you know,
like I've been around quite a few people having panic attacks,
and usually I'll say something like, how many times do
you reckon you've been through a panic attack? And they'll
(22:44):
often say hundreds, and I'll go and statistically, you didn't
die any of those times. I go, well that's good,
and they laugh a bit. I go, so, look, chances
are I mean, I'm not a guru in this space,
but look, probably not going to die and they laugh, right,
But here's the truth, Like we know, as horrible as
(23:04):
this feels, that's the emotion, that's the feeling, that's the physiology.
The knowledge is the awareness is the logic is I'll
get through this, do you know what I mean? So
I think the human experience is, you know, in the
one human is this collaboration and conflict and coexistence of
(23:28):
what we know and what we feel. And I think
that's every day all the time.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Do you feel like when you have moments of like
friction or fuck ups in this type of space, do
you feel like you go to a place of like broke,
like seeing that is where you're broken, or do you
(23:55):
go to a place of I'm at the edge of
a breakthrough that to learn something.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Yeah. Or the other option or another option, which is
more me is when I do something and this is
a bad thing that I do. This is I'm not
proud of this, but I get really angry at myself
for not doing good work. Like if I go and
(24:22):
I do a gig, I do a speaking giga workshop,
a keynodor and this got zero to do with the
money or the commercial viability of this or that it's
just yeah, when I when I make a mistake or
I don't think I've delivered what I could. Yeah, I'm
(24:46):
very hard on myself, Like I beat myself up, which
I shouldn't. But at the same time, yeah, like these things,
but I try to learn through that. I try to go, all, right, well,
what is that about? Like I told you before we started,
right and your listeners maybe don't know, but I've got
a thing called you station tube dysfunction, which is ETD,
(25:08):
And like, right now, my left ear is blocked and
there's no sympathy required or anything like that, but it's
this conversation is fifty percent harder right now than a
normal conversation for me because my voice is echoing in
my head right, so my left ear is totally blocked.
(25:30):
I can't hear out of my left ear. And this
just happens on and off. Listeners comes, it goes, and
there's no rhyme or reason. But it's been happening a lot.
I probably need to go have an operation, but I can't,
you know, I just go, well, it's here. I just
need to be as present and as focused and as
(25:51):
competent as I can, because I this is the funny
thing with me. I could do a thirty or forty
minute podcast with you where ten people listen, and I
know a lot more people listen than that, but where
ten people listen and it's you and me, And I
care as much about this being good as I do
a highly paid corporate gig to a thousand people, Because
(26:15):
for me, like talking to an audience where I'm sharing
you know, whatever, thoughts, ideas knowledge, information, inspiration where you
might impact one person, or more like, it's a real
responsibility and a privilege. So even though you know me
sitting right here in my office and you and your
(26:36):
office and me with my ear blocked and it's a
Saturday AVO and it's all a bit whatever, I still
care a lot. So I when I'm doing my thing,
I every single time I try and bring the best
version of me to that.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
What about you and self compassion?
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Next, Yeah, I thought that must be a tough one.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I feel like you're really I feel like you're really
self aware, and I think I feel like you care deeply.
But I also think I get a sense that you
have a lot of boundaries around your own.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I don't know if you're I don't know how you
are with self compassion. I'm interested, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I'm not great at it. I mean I don't beat
myself up. I don't really Well that's not true. I
just said sometimes I do, but engineer like I don't
sit at home going you're a useless piece of shit.
I hate myself. You know, there's none of that. But look,
I mean this is you know, this is one of
those moments when you're on a podcast and you think, fuck,
(27:51):
do I keep opening the door or do I just
pull it a bit closed?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Open the door?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah? All right, So I don't this does sound like
self loathing. It isn't. I don't think highly of me
like I think at my core I'm a good person,
which is a very cheesy cliche thing to say, but
(28:18):
in terms of my talent and skills and yeah, I
I yeah, I you know, have been I was going
to say riddled with that sounds overwhelming, but like impacted
by self doubt my whole life, right, So I think,
And I think because a lot of you know, most
(28:41):
kids grow up and they're really talented at something, like
they're either really creative, or they can fucking run fast
or jump hile, or they can dance, or they're brilliant
at maths, or they can write incredibly or there. I
don't know, Like a lot of kids seem to have
something that they're just really naturally inherently great at, which
kind of becomes almost like a social badge or a
(29:03):
stepping stone to I wasn't at anything, and I'm like,
maybe the only thing I was kind of good at
because I had to be was communication, you know. It
was like chatting was like I always had kind of
the gift to the gab and that, you know, And
I literally got in trouble at school for that and
(29:23):
literally got told by more than one teacher, you know,
pull your head in. Nobody's ever going to pay to
listen to you speak, so you should do some work
so you can get a job. And they weren't even
trying to be They're like, hey, sure, shake, I know
you're great at talking, but that's not a job, So
just do your fucking maths, you know. And I'm like,
(29:45):
and at the time, I'm like, yeah, well that makes sense.
It turns out not totally true. Yeah, but look, I
don't like, I'm relatively content with who I am and
how I am and but I'm always not in an
anxious way, but I'm I'm always kind of tweaking and pushing,
(30:08):
and you know, I'm really curious about broadly human potential.
What we can do be, create, change, learn, how we
can evolve everything from you know, can you do a
PhD when you're not very academic and you're in your sixties?
There's that, and then there's well, how fit and strong
and healthy and functional can I be when I should
(30:30):
be on the slide? Or you know, it's like, how
can I start a new business when I'm sixty? Can
I learn new things? Can I can I get?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
You know?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
And then like with other people that I've worked with
the same thing, I'm like, oh wow, this person has
has never you know, been to university, or they've never
had a job for more than six months, or they've
never By the way, it doesn't matter if you go
to university, never been, whatever it is. And sometimes just
(31:04):
helping people unpack their own possibilities is so awesome, you know,
to go, oh, I know you've never done that thing,
but that doesn't mean you can't do the thing. You know,
and the thing could be owner pet do you know
what I mean? It doesn't need to be cure cancer
or join the space program. It could be, you know,
(31:27):
I spoke to a lady recently who's a hoarder and
she's just for the last year gotten over that and her,
you know, it's still it's like an addiction kind of,
And I was just talking to her about that. I'm like,
that is so interesting, and she feels amazing now because
she feels just liberated, and but she still has this
(31:51):
same compulsion although the volume's gone down, to just buy
more stuff and keep more stuff and not throw anything out.
But she's kind of got someone who helps her and
a bit of a plan in place, and you know,
so it might be that it might be overcoming an
addiction or you know, but I just think that people
are I think people inherently underestimate what they can do,
(32:16):
and not everyone can do everything, and not everyone can
run a marathon, and not everyone can you know, build
an amazing brand, and not everyone can sing beautifully, of course,
But I think that for most of us, what gets
in the way is not so much our innate ability
or our genetics or our IQ or our overall potential,
(32:43):
but rather how we think about all of that stuff
and the way that our mind and our fear gets
in the way of all of that stuff because we're
scared of failure, We're scared of embarrassment, we're scared of
looking silly, we're scared of being odd one out. You know.
We so want to belong that we'll just compromise a
(33:04):
shit out of ourselves to fit in. But in all
the fitting in, sometimes we lose ourselves because now there's
no me, there's just the member of this group to
which I belong. So I'm just a part of a
whole that we call the the whatever group. You know.
And if you, by the way, if you ask any questions,
(33:25):
or you doubt or you conflict, you know, you're out
of the group. And well then I better not ask
anything because I need to be in a group. So yeah,
it's and we're emotional and social creatures who want to belong.
So it's a dichotomy.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
How do you manage or have you had to manage
the tension between self improvement wanting to improve yourself and
be better and do better, but also accepting yourself as
you are in the moment. Has that been a journey
for you and is it still that's a great question.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Yeah, that's a really clever question. Yeah, so I say
all the time, like I think the answer, like the
the way the juxtaposition between those two concepts that you
just spoke of, the kind of the antidote to wrap
around that is gratitude. Whereas I know that I'm very fortunate,
(34:27):
very blessed. I grew up in a great country with
great parents. I didn't grow up in poverty. I didn't
grow up in a war zone. I have a button
that I can press and my room gets cooler or warmer.
I have a tap that I can turn on and
cold fresh water comes out. I have a bed to
sleep in. I'm not broke, you know, all of these
(34:49):
amazing things. So it is, it is a It is
a challenge sometimes to be both ambitious. But I don't
mean ambitious in necessarily a commercial sense. I just mean
in wanting to keep learning, growing, evolving sense, but also
(35:10):
to be content. That is a real They almost think
they almost seem inconsistent those two things. So I can
tell you that if right now is the best my
life will ever be, I'm extremely happy and grateful right
So I'm glad with that, But I also know, well,
(35:33):
I've still got energy my brain still works, my body
still works. I can still learn, I can still help people,
I can still unlearn. So I'm going to keep doing that.
And when I reach my threshold, it's like there are
things I can't do now. I can't bench press like
I used to. I can't run as fast as I
used to. You know, I saw a photo of me
(35:53):
the other day that sent someone sent me, in fact,
Patrick sent me a photo of me, and I'm like,
fucking hell, I was Brad Pitt when I was thirty.
I wasn't really, but compared to now, when I look
like a fucking desert boot with a fucking flannel shirt on,
I look like somebody's granddad, I'm like, fucking hell, I'm
so old, I'm so you know, and I just go, yeah,
(36:17):
of course I am. I'm sixty one. Well, of course
you look like that. Of course your hairs gray. Of
course you've got renkals. Of course you don't look how
you once looked. And guess what that's okay, you know,
it's like it's all good. And in a minute i'll
be seventy or i'll be sixty five, and what will
be will be? You know, I think it's about I
(36:40):
don't think getting older means doesn't need to mean decline,
but I think in our culture it's really associated, you know,
while still being practical and realizing, of course I'm going
to die one day. Of course, I'm going to get
sick one day. Of course my brain's not going to
work like it currently does one day. Course, but that's
(37:01):
not now, that's not today, So I'll just keep going.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
What do you like with stillness? Are you ever still?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yeah? I'm surprisingly good. My mind is not like trying
to fucking turn off. My mind is but me just
hanging out by myself, me lying on my bed, watching
something me. You know, this morning, I was up at
quarter past five. I was walking around the streets of
Hampton's very still, very quiet. Saw nobody, spoke to nobody.
(37:32):
I'm just out moving like a fucking urban ninja.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
In the darkness.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, getting lat cramps, getting a double lat cramp from
doing heavy one arm rows in the cold morning.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Yeah, I'm okay that the thing, like, my mind is busy,
but more creative busy than fear busy, you know, anxiety
busy over like. I think a lot, but I don't overthink,
you know, overthinking well, for me, overthinking is about worry,
(38:09):
it's about fear, it's about anxiety. I don't generally have that,
but like I am constantly thinking about how do I
share the stuff that I know, stuff that I'm learning,
that I'm experiencing. You know, since I was eighteen years
old till now forty three years of life and work
(38:31):
and working with people and study and research and fucking
up and getting up and falling down and getting back
up and getting things wrong and getting things right. And
I look around the world and I don't see people
getting better. I see more anxiety. I see more mental
health issues. I see more isolation and loneliness and disconnection
(38:52):
and confusion. And maybe it's just what I'm seeing, maybe
that's not true, maybe that's just my truth, but it
seems to me that the issues are not going away.
There may be escalating. And so I think, while totally acknowledging,
I'm not the solution to anything or for anyone, but
maybe I could be a valuable servant to people. I
(39:17):
could be a resource for people. Somebody could bump into
me metaphorically and take away an idea or a thought
or a strategy or some encouragement that makes one percent
different difference, you know, And that's what I want to do.
And even when you know I've said this many times,
(39:37):
even when people come to me and say, you know,
I came to an event or a read a book,
or I did this or I did that, and you
changed my life, which you know, I don't get that
every day, that's for sure, but people say that reasonably regularly,
and every single time I reject that idea, and I
tell them, and I'm not being falsely humble. I go,
(39:59):
you changed your life like I might have. I might
have had an impact or an influence on you, but
ultimately you did the work, you made the decision, you found,
the resilience you found, the courage you kept going when
you couldn't be bothered, you know. And so I love
that I can be that influence on people and hopefully
(40:20):
help people understand their personal power, which I know sounds cliche,
but it's like, I know all the stuff that I've done.
And if you told me when I was eighteen years
old that I would, you know, I would work on Telly,
I would work in radio, I would have one of
you know, the biggest podcasts in Australia. I'd write lots
of books. I'd go to university a couple of times.
(40:41):
I do like And there's no bragging in that, because
I'm still fucking amazed. If you had to told me that,
I absolutely wouldn't have believed it. And I say I
wouldn't have believed it because I know how gifted I'm not.
And that's not me hating on me, that's just me.
That's just me being honest. And I say that one
(41:05):
because it's two true, and two because I want to
encourage other people. It's like, here's what goes on in
the world. We love to tell everyone, Oh, you're special,
you're amazing, you're unique, you're this, you're that. You know.
Maybe you're not, though, like and that's okay that you're
not like I'm not. Maybe you're average. Maybe average is fine.
Maybe it's some things you're pretty good. Maybe it's some
(41:27):
things you suck that's cool. Maybe you are gifted and
if you are well done, but that's nothing that you earned,
that's what you were born with. You know, you might
earn skill, you might develop skill, you might develop confidence,
you might build courage and resilience, and you might create
bigger and better results. You should be proud of all
(41:48):
of that. But if you were born with incredible genetics,
then pride is not the right emotion. Gratitude is the
right emotion. If you can run fast, jump, Hi, you're beautiful,
or you're you're a genius, or just be grateful. Don't
be proud, be grateful. Be proud of the shit that
you achieve and do and the people that you help
(42:10):
with those gifts.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Did you find the I.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Feel like I just turned into the Delilama for three minutes?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Says no, it's good. Do you feel like your perception
of the things that you have achieved your perception of
them changed when they became your achievement and did you
have to deliberately acknowledge them? Did they shift? Did having
you know, one of the biggest podcasts in Australia all
(42:38):
of a sudden not become a big deal because now
all of a sudden, it's you and you're like, well this, like, yeah,
tell me about that experience.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Yeah, that's interesting because I think I think we have
this thing that a lot of us do. And if
this isn't you listener, I apologize, but I think we
grow up. And you've heard me say this too many times.
But I think we grow up in this mindset that says, tiff,
when you have this or own that, or achieve that
(43:07):
you know, or do that or be that, or look
like that, or get this many listeners or get this
many followers or get this much attention, or then that's success.
And I think we think that, well, when I have
and own and earn and look like, then I'm going
to be happy or I'm going to be fulfilled, or
the anxiety is going to go away, or the self
(43:29):
doubt will be gone, or my life will be ace
or I'll be ace in the middle of my life.
But the guy who was you know, had five businesses
in his early thirties and one hundred and staff and
all of that, who was probably more mentally and emotionally
fucked up than ten years before. I'm like, oh, one
(43:51):
doesn't equal the other necessarily. So I think there's the
and this is my what I call and other people
call it different things, but I call it my two
world theory, where you know, there's our physical world, which
is seen, it's practical, it's observable by others, it's three dimensional,
and then there's the other world, you know, the unseen,
(44:13):
the invisible, the emotional, psychological, the creative, you know, and
while we do life in the physical, three dimensional world,
we do living in the internal world. And so but
when we talk about success in our culture, tiffany An Kook,
invariably we talk about all the stuff that people can see, right,
(44:36):
But what happens when you know, It's like I was
talking to you this morning, and at the moment, in
the last thirty days, I've got seven point one million
bloody views on my Instagram, and I'm like, it's funny.
It doesn't make me at all happier than when I
got one. In fact, I think I was happier when
(44:56):
I had one, and not that I'm unhappy or disor
or discontented or like, it's just like, oh, so when
I had one, when I woke up one day and
I looked at my Instagram and it said, You've had
one million views in the last thirty days, all right,
So we had a little moment, little tech because TIFF's
(45:18):
got gone you know, rogue, and she's using some other
platform which clearly is inferior, that's right. Yeah, So I
was talking about, yeah, like this essentially, I was talking
about how you know, when I got a million views
in a month. I'm like, this is fucking incredible, and
I felt good, and you know, not that it wasn't
a goal. I just saw it. I was surprised and
(45:39):
I went wow, and then I went how much can
I get? Or you know, wow, wow, and then I
started just paying attention to it. And today it's like
I said, seven point one million, which is but it's
funny the way that it makes me feel now in
terms of my emotional end or psychological response is different.
And it's like, it's so funny because you know, things
(46:01):
only in this context, with this conversation about this kind
of stuff. They only have the meaning that you give them.
And if you go, oh, one million is incredible, and
you believe it's incredible, you believe it's a great achievement,
or it's a good outcome, or it's whatever, then you
have a correlated experience. You have that psychological and emotional response.
(46:25):
But if your story is seven point one million is shit.
I can do better. But despite the fact that the
numbers have seven x, your experience is negative or is
at the very least not what it once was at
the million. So what's my point? My point is We're
always creating results and outcomes. There's always stuff happening in
(46:47):
our world, you know, conversation, situation, circumstances, you know whatever.
And then in the middle of all of that external, measurable,
observable stuff is Tiff, who interprets it all, who tells
herself a story about it. This is good, this is bad,
this is positive, this is negative. He's scary, he's nice,
(47:09):
she's a witch, she's an angel. This podcast's going shit.
This podcast's going like. We are constantly creating our own
reality while not at all thinking we're creating our own
reality because the window through which we view the world,
process the world, give meaning to the world in the moment,
(47:30):
we don't see it, we don't experience it. So we
think that our reality, our subjective reality, which we all
have one, is the objective reality. But also then when
you do a deeper dive and you go, okay, so
what is the What is the kind of success that
(47:51):
I'm looking for internally? What is like we all want
to be successful cool? What does that mean as an
emotional state? What does success mean in terms of my psychology?
What does success mean in terms of my spiritual bank account?
What the fuck is a spiritual bank account, you know
all of that. Like, you know, what opened the door
(48:13):
on this for me was being a young personal trainer
and I mean twenty two twenty three, so twenty three
was nine and eighty six for me, twenty four nine
and eighty seven and so on. I remember having several
clients and I mean five six seven at this stage
who were multimillionaires. Now this is back when a million
(48:35):
dollars was like like very few people at a million dollars,
like the average home was I don't know, one hundred grand, right,
so to be. And I had clients who are multimillionaires,
and I'm training them, and you know, as the more
that I got to know them, and not all of them,
but often I'm like, oh wow, I'm a twenty three
year old, four year old personal trainer driving an orange
(48:57):
Cortina station wagon which is a piece of shit, and
I'm renting a house and I've got a motorbike which
is pretty much ready to fall apart, and I've got
fucking six friends, and I'm way happier than you. I'm like,
what is that about? And I'm way less insecure than you,
And I was pretty insecure but I'm like, oh wow,
(49:20):
And so for me that wasn't a judgment of them,
but rather an experience of them and an awareness. And
I'm like, oh, it was great for me because I
somehow in my subconscious assumed that once I had a
lot more stuff and a lot better stuff, that I
(49:40):
almost definitely would be happier. I'd be less stressed, I'd
be less anxious, you know, Not that I was miserable,
but I just thought more stuff and better stuff equals
a better experience for me. And while that seems to
make sense, and it does make sense certain people up
(50:01):
to a certain financial level. Obviously, if you're really really
struggling to pay for your kids kids school fees, or
feed the kids, or feed yourself for bioshoes, well, of
course then money money can really impact psychological emotional states,
of course, but beyond a certain point, it's like there's
no necessarily there's no positive correlation, you know, So then
(50:25):
it just then you just start to think about, you know,
what actually is success for me? Not what does everybody
say it is, not what is culture and media and
social media say it is. But away from the idea
and the sales pitch and the marketing. What truly is
it for me? What truly matters to me? I'll shut
(50:46):
up after this, when I sit down in the stillness
that you just spoke about, and I go, Okay, no
one's looking, no one's listening. There's no fucking fanfare. I'm
not on a podcast. I'm not writing this for social media.
I'm not I'm not looking for attention or accolades or approval.
What really matters to me, you know, what really matters,
(51:08):
and what really doesn't matter to me is how many
people look at my Instagram. It's like, that's not a
core value. It's nice, But what really matters to me
is that my mum and dad are okay, that my
dad's cognitive decline, you know, which is normal. He's not,
(51:28):
you know, but it's like that he's okay. You know that.
What matters to me is that the people that I
love are okay. What matters to me is that I
don't do dumb shit to my body, that I this
thing that I can't replace, this gift that God or
the universe or whatever your believe system is bestowed on me,
(51:50):
that it works as well as it can. That's a
value for me, you know. And then once you know
what those values are, then you kind of know where
to go, you kind of which path to take, and yeah,
you can do some bullshit along the way. You know,
you can get lots of listeners and followers and by
yourself some shit. There's nothing wrong with that, But none
(52:10):
of that is your purpose. None of those things are
your values.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
I love that, all right. So last question or last
bit of advice for people listening that are feeling that
they feel misaligned and exhausted and stuck on autopilot, maybe
behaving or reacting out of alignment to who they really
want to be. What's the first brave move they can make?
Speaker 3 (52:40):
All right? So I'm going to give you three things.
Hang on, let me just write them down before I
forget them. So one is a treasure hunt, two is values,
and three is current behaviors. So let's go backwards. So
current behaviors. So do a stock take Easier said than done,
(53:03):
but do a stock take on all the shit you
currently do that's done, Like, how are you currently self sabotaging?
How are you currently getting in your own way? And
let me give you an example. You might hold these
two opposing things. They might be true for you. Truth
number one is I want to be the best version
(53:26):
of me physically. You know, I don't want to run
a marathon necessarily. I don't want to be a mister
or miss World. But I want to be the best
shape that I can be for my genetic potential at
my age. That's truth number one. Truth number two is
I eat shit every day. Right, They're both true. Those
(53:47):
things are simultaneously true. They are simultaneously representative of you,
but they are inconsistent with your values. Right, So the
behavior is completely out of alignment with who you want
to be and how you want to be. So you're
basically shooting yourself in the foot with your choices, with
(54:08):
your behavior, with your lifestyle and so on. So that's
number one. Get real, don't beat yourself up. Remember self reflection,
self awareness, self regulation, self actualization. That nowhere in that
list is self loathing. Right, Just be honest, be brave. Right.
So number one is just do a stock take on
all the shit that you're currently doing that doesn't serve you.
(54:32):
Number two is values. Is what we just spoke about,
So get clear about what matters to you. And the
beauty about identifying your values is that can become moving
forward from today if you like, that can become your
sat NAV, That can become your like, oh what should
(54:53):
I do here? Or what do your value say? What
aligns with your values? You know? It's like if TIF
I got an opportunity for a sponsor on your podcast
and it was with a product that you wouldn't use,
that you didn't like, that didn't represent your philosophy around
health or whatever, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't sell it.
(55:15):
Even if they went, TIF, we're going to give you
twenty grand, it's a two month sponsorship deal. I'm pretty
sure you would go fuck. I would love the dough,
but I can't sell that because I wouldn't use it
and I wouldn't want my friends to use it. Right,
So that's when we make values driven decision and embrace
values driven behaviors. What was the third thing I said?
Speaker 2 (55:40):
I gotted treasure Hunt, Treasure Hunt, Treasure Hunt.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
Thank you, And that just means yeah, like on top
of the stock take about what we're doing that we
need to change. Also hit the pause button and close
your eyes and go what's great about my life? And
I I'm not big on encouraging people to compare themselves
(56:04):
to anyone. However, for this little activity, it doesn't hurt.
You know, I compare myself to people who can't get
out of a chair. I compare myself to people who
don't have anyone that loves them, or I don't compare,
but I have that awareness that not everyone like me
(56:26):
can get out of my chair, walk down the stairs,
make myself a cup of tea. I'm so grateful for that.
I'm so grateful that a few people love me unconditionally.
I'm so grateful for that. I'm so grateful that I
get an opportunity to do this with you. And that
sounds cheesy and bullshit, but I'm grateful. Like if I
wasn't grateful, I wouldn't be talking for over an hour.
(56:50):
You know. It's like, because this is a good opportunity
maybe to help a few people. You know, I'm grateful
that I get paid to do shit that I love
to do, to go and talk to people. It's like
I would do it for free.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
It's like this shoes don't tell them.
Speaker 3 (57:07):
Well, in the context of my business, yeah, well, you
know they're not getting it for free. But you know,
I would say, you know, thirty percent of the work
in inverted commas that I do, I don't get paid for,
and I happily don't, you know if and I can't
do everything for everyone. But you know, I love helping people.
(57:28):
And I don't love helping people because it's financially viable.
I just love helping people, you know, And that's like
that is and I know that sounds cheesy, yeah, but anyway,
So they're my three things. They're my thoughts, they're my suggestions.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
I love that, thank you. What are you coming up
in the world of harps and typ that everyone can
get around? I know there's a little what's that. I
know there's a little bit happening soon.
Speaker 3 (57:58):
We're launching some live events and we're going to I
think we're going to Sydney and bris Vegas or maybe
the Sunshine Coast or Goldie, not sure, Perth, Adelaide Melbs.
Of course, I'm doing a workshop and new workshop which
is called the You Experiment. The You Experiment which is
essentially talking about it's around the idea that different things
(58:22):
work for different people. You know, there's not one set
protocol that suits everybody to create the same outcome, and
so we're talking about trying to understand how we work mentally, emotionally, physiologically, personally, professionally,
all that stuff. We just lean into that. And of
course you might be talking about the fact that we're
doing a retreat in Queensland. Can't announce all of that yet,
(58:46):
but because we haven't locked in the dates. But I'm
doing what will probably be a four night, five day extravaganza, nah,
change of life extravaganza up in the Sunshine States. So
(59:06):
that'll be announced very soon, all the details. And yeah,
I'm excited. Like my life is good. I'm lucky. You know,
I'm stumbling towards the finish line and my PhD. Even
in that it is like I bitch about it a
little bit, but truly it's it's it's been a real
growth experience. And like I.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Think, at least you don't call your friends every day
and go I fucking hate school.
Speaker 3 (59:32):
Yeah there's that. There's that. Yeah I know somebody who
does that. All right, well done, you.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
Carry on, Thanks harps, thanks everyone.
Speaker 1 (59:43):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
I started.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Please
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