7-Star Experience? Most Roofers Will Never Achieve This Standard with Terry Gwaltney

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
How do you transform a standard roofing business into
a leadership developmentcompany that offers a seven-star
experience for every homeowner?
In this episode, we're divingdeep with Terry Gwaltney, who's
not just the founder ofIntegrity Roofing, but a pioneer
in using culture and leadershipto redefine customer service.
Terry is operating acrossmultiple states, and what makes

(00:29):
Terry stand out is hisphilosophy of creating customers
for life by focusing on valueand unforgettable experiences,
all while building a companyculture where every employee is
an ambassador.
From rigorous hiring practicesto encouraging his team to read
leadership books, terry'sinnovative approach shows that
roofing can be about much morethan just shingles.
It's about buildingrelationships.

(00:51):
Today, you'll discover how tocraft a company culture that
scales and delivers a seven-starroofing experience.
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast.
I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here tobring you insights from top
leaders in the roofing industryto help you grow and scale your
roofing business.
Terry, how are you?

(01:11):
Hey, I'm doing good, good man.
It's been about a, I think.
Has it been about a year?
I think it was about a year ago.
We had a great conversationabout leadership and team and
culture.
Conversation about leadershipand team and culture really
around the release of your bookCulture Near For people who

(01:34):
didn't get to listen to thatepisode.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Give yourself a little introduction.
Tell us about Terry.
Yeah, well, you know co-founder here of Integrity
Roofing Exteriors.
We're located in SouthernIllinois.
Our footprint kind of stretchesacross three states.
Yeah, we're primarily a retailbusiness focusing on residential
.
We actually tell people, eventhough people ask you, what you
do.
Well, we're a leadershipdevelopment company.
We just happen to provide homeimprovement solutions and that

(01:58):
really is kind of our approach.
We're in a commodity businessbut what we're really selling is
an experience and that's kindof what we focus on.
We get to solve problems everyday, help people, protect what
matters most to them, and do itat a seven-star.
Really experience is kind ofwhat our goal is.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Tell me more about that.
What's the seven-starexperience?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, you know, we firmly believe that most
customers live almost in a falsereality.
They expect the averagecontractor to show up, do what
they said they were going to do,clean up their mess, stay on
the job until it's done and doexactly what they promised and
then leave.
And we know that's not realityin the world that we live in for
most of our competitors anyway,and so if we only show up and

(02:41):
do that, we're not verymemorable, and so our focus has
always been look for thosemoments of magic.
How can we create those outthere?
What is the added value thatthe customer is going to get
that they didn't expect?
And then, at the end of the day, they soon forget what you did
for them, but they never forgethow you made them feel.
So we're always looking for thatemotional component, and our

(03:04):
whole process of our sales modelis more of a consulting.
So nobody wakes up and wants tospend $15,000 on a roof.
They would much rather spendthat on a vacation or a hundred
other things.
And so that automatically tellsus that we're either dealing
with somebody that has anxietyfrom a problem they have they're
trying to solve, or the anxiety, the fear of one they're about
to have, and so because of thatmuch like a doctor that

(03:26):
approaches, we do more listeningthan we do talking and then,
based on what's important to you, we come up with solutions that
best fit your budget.
But everybody's not our customerbecause we're taking that
approach that we're going tosell generationally.
We take the approach it's acustomer for life, and so I may
be able to do things to make youhappy enough to choose us and

(03:47):
get you to pay us, but you maynever use us again and you would
never refer us.
So that's what I sayEverybody's not our customer.
We're selling on value, andprice is really only an issue in
the absence of value.
So it really doesn't matter whowe're bidding against and what
their number is.
We're going to do it different.
There's going to be a differentexperience and we're selling to
be able to sell to yourgrandkids.

(04:08):
It's just a different approachand that's kind of where the
seven star comes in.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, how did you come to this philosophy?
Behind that, I mean, a lot ofit sounds like some of the
traditional kind of you knowwhat, what, the traditional
cliches about what you should do, right, but it seems like you
guys have put it together in aspecial way.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, I think so.
I mean it really all starts.
It really starts with ourpeople, and I think the people
you know, how do I pick thepeople that that represent that
brand, that reputation, yourname, that thing that you built,
that takes you a long time tobuild and you can lose it in a
transaction, starts with reallyknowing your culture.
Your people are shared.
Your culture is the sharedvoice and values of your entire

(04:54):
team, and so how do I build theculture?
I got to keep working itbackwards.
You know, if I'm an entrepreneur, early on I had to figure out
what's important to me.
How do I want to do business?
Integrity is important to me.
I want people to feel like theydo business, but they don't
have to have a contract althoughit's necessary in our day and
age but they don't need to feellike they have to have that to
make me honor my word.

(05:14):
You know the customerexperience was important, so we
created our core values and thenlike, okay, if this, if it's
going to require the ability forme to be able to serve more
than one person, then I need tohave a vision statement Like
what does that look like onwhere I'm going, because I can't
ask people to go with me if Ican't communicate where I'm
headed.
And then you know we had tospend a lot of time on our

(05:35):
mission statement.
You know our mission statementis how we're going to do that.
And so once we figured that outand knew that, you know this is
going to go beyond two people.
You know I don't want theexperience to be different with
employee number three, or nodifferent than employee number
30.
But I also can't expect them tomake the same decisions with my
customer, my brand, becauseeverybody that we hire we look

(05:55):
at like they're an ambassador,just like there's an ambassador
the president's going to appointto represent him.
You know he wants to make surethat there's an alignment and
we're on the same page withvalues and how we do things, how
you conduct yourself, reflectson me, and so we had to take all
of those things that identifiedour culture and figure out how
do we scale that to where that'smore than artwork on a wall,

(06:17):
like it is in most corporateplaces, and the guy that is in
the home is processing thatdecision with that homeowner
through our core values.
You can't do that if he doesn'teven know what they are.
And your average company,people working in the field.
They know you have them, butthey couldn't tell you what they
were, so they're kind ofuseless.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
They do become useless.
They become plaques on the wallright, Like a lot of times.
They become plaques on the wall.
How do you continue to?
How do you keep them from justbeing?

Speaker 2 (06:46):
plaques on the wall.
How do you continue to?
How do you keep them from justbeing plaques on the wall?
Yeah, I think a lot ofintentionality and so kind of
where I was going with that is.
You know, there's three thingswe look for when we're inviting
people to join our team.
We don't call it a hiringprocess, we call it a selection
process, and so for us it reallyis.
I'll talk to a hundred peoplebefore we select one.
That's the number and there's a.
That doesn't mean those 99people are bad people.
There's a lot of great people,but they're not great fits, and

(07:08):
so we're having the interview.
We almost started backwards,like, does this person have the
character to represent our brand?
If they don't, I don't care howmuch they sold somewhere else,
I don't care how competent theyare, how highly recommended.
That is the most importantthing, because we're looking to
add people to the team that'sgoing to be here two years from
now, minimum five years from now.
They've got one guy that's beenwith us 16 years and so we're

(07:32):
not looking.
It's the difference betweenhired mercenaries and hired
missionaries.
Our guys are united more thanaround, more than just a
paycheck, and so they're notjust looking out for their
self-interest.
They understand that I'm doingsomething as a team, I'm
representing a brand and I'mservicing a customer, and in the
process of all that I get paidreally, really well.
So it's a little bit differentapproach.

(07:53):
So it's character first, andthen the second it's cultural
fit.
He's an honest guy, but does hefit with the team we've already
built?
I don't need a guy rowing inthe opposite direction.
I'm going to expend more energyIf he can check those two boxes
.
Then the third one is he needsto be competent.
But you also have to trust yourprocess, and so I think a cake
mix I don't have to be a baker,but if I can buy a Betty Crocker

(08:15):
cake mix follow theinstructions of add a little bit
of oil, one egg and mix this upand put it for a certain
temperature for a certain amountof time.
There's a predictable result,and so we also make sure those
people are highly teachable, andso that whole mantra of we're a
leadership development companythat just happens to provide
home improvement solutions.
We start them out of the gate.
They're reading a book everytwo weeks during a six-week

(08:36):
onboarding for a salesperson Inan industry where many times
it's ride in the truck with Billthree times and if you think
you can make it to the nextpaycheck, you know we'll just
see who sticks.
It's just a big differentapproach and a much higher, I
think, investment on the frontend.
But when you gather thosepeople, then the intentionality
and the reward system and therecognition and the compensation

(08:56):
all begin to build on.
This is how I'm scaling thisculture Like this.
This is us, and the guy on theforklift knows what it is, just
like the guy that's running CFOin the accounting department.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
I know what some people are going to ask is how
do you get these people to reada book a week?
I mean, a lot of us, a lot ofus past school, right past high
school or college.
They, a lot of people, haven'tread a book since then.
Right, and now they're cominginto usually a career track that
is not related to formaleducation.

(09:32):
A lot right.
And so how do you do that?

Speaker 2 (09:36):
first, Right, well, so it's every two weeks.
We're not so aggressive thatit's every week, it's usually
every two weeks.
Okay, so it's more front loaded.
So when you come in on thefront end, you know there's a
certain amount, as you're goingthrough different parts of
training, that you have to getinitially and then we track
other ones that we will givethem, you know, through the
course of their career,depending on the track they're
choosing.
And so if I came in as aconsultant but I want to be a

(09:59):
regional coach someday, you knowI'm going to go through, you
know, maybe upwards of 200 booksNow, most of the books we have,
99% of those we've selected,where there's also an audio
version.
So in the truck the guys aregoing to be able to listen to it
.
Matter of fact, as of the timewe're recording this, two days
from now I'm taking theColchonier book going to
Nashville and we're convertingit to an audio book.

(10:21):
It's available on Kindle, butyou know so many of the guys,
based on what you just said, Imean you have a whole lot more
time to listen and maybe you'renot a great reader, but you can
consume the content.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
I think everybody has their way of learning too.
I'm an audible person, man, I'mgoing to, I'm running through
audible books, like, like crazy,it's just, it's a, it's a, it's
an easy, it's the, it's theeasiest way to consume that for
me, right, like, and that that'sit's a great thing and that
that's great.
Windshield what do they call it?

(10:53):
The windshield university,right, just, you know, get, get
on the road and get that, andyou guys cover a lot of area but
not a lot of population.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Yeah, so in the three states that we're in, our
biggest one is going to beprobably our Illinois market.
So we're in the southernmosttip.
You know that market will covernorth to south, 120 miles.
It'll cover 70 miles east towest and you cover that whole
population.
In the biggest town you'll findin there will be 25,000 people

(11:24):
and most of those are going tobe far less than that.
That's a metro area, which iswhy we're covering such a big
footprint.
So, yes, our guys have a lot ofwindow time.
But you know, back to thatoriginal question, one of the
things that we're lookingforward to that selection
process is like we choose peoplethat believe as much in
themselves as we believe in them, and it's a very upfront
conversation.
We're interviewing you todaynot just for the position that's

(11:46):
open, but for where we see ourcompany five years from now and
how you could fit.
So potential is not what youare, it's what you can become,
so we're going to require thisout of you.
So there's many of those guyslike part of the interview
process is tell us the lastself-development book you read.
That's okay.
Some of those guys you knowthey just they'll take to it
when they understand they getenough information and enough

(12:07):
people believe in them and yougive them enough opportunity,
like I don't have to sit downand read it, I can listen to it,
and I'm looking for a summerafter that.
So they're sitting in a groupof peers in our meeting.
It's like okay, you justfinished the book on why.
This week, give me 10 minutes.
How, that?
How are you going to apply thatbook to the position that you
were hired for?
Also, how do you feel likethat's helping you, just not

(12:28):
just professionally, but how isthat going to help you
personally?
You know, like you set goals.
You know that you're going tosell this.
Why.
Why is that?
You just want to make.
Why do you want to make moremoney?
I want to have more security.
Well, why do you want to havemore security?
Well, I don't.
Why do you want to have moresecurity?
Well, I don't.
I don't want my wife to have towork.
Well, why is that important toyou?
Because I want her to be aroundfor my kids and I want them.
And so you just keep digginginto it.

(12:49):
You know what I'm saying, andso initially, what happens is
it's like yeah, I'm, I'm abetter version of me, I'm not
taking the class because I'mforced to now to pass the test
I'm I'm taking the class tolearn something from it because
it's going to give meopportunity.
So it's a different mindset.
You change the perspective.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, and that creates a filter, right, that
creates the filter.
It builds walls around the teamto not let in the culture
killers, right, and I wouldassume that if someone did not
read that book that was on thelist for this couple of weeks
and everybody's sitting aroundat that table, I would assume

(13:29):
that there would be a social.
It would be uncomfortable forthem socially, right, like it's
not that somebody's going to bemean to them, maybe, but wait,
you didn't read the book.
You know we're all rowing inthis direction, you know.
So I could see how that can bea powerful filter along the way.

(13:50):
Speaking of, like, the territoryyou cover and we were talking a
little bit off camera about thegoals going forward you cover a
lot of ground, a lot of smalltowns, medium-sized towns across
that region, and you'dmentioned to me that the goal
for 2025 was essentially, if Ican paraphrase it was to go

(14:14):
deeper, not wider, to get evenmore traction in those markets
than to expand the market.
What's the goal?
I mean you could clarify I maynot have said it perfectly, but
clarify what you're thinking andwhat steps you feel that that
will entail.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah well, we've spent a lot of time since COVID
working on what we'd call ourbench, and we like to take our
circles of influence, and thegrowth model would be is go just
a little bit outside of thatcircle, where we already have
some brand equity, and then juststretch that market.
But because we're so widespread, one of the things that we're
seeing is, you know, everymedium of advertisement doesn't

(14:53):
overlap, even in these smallareas.
I mean, you're talking about120 miles.
You may be in a DMA of two.
You know some places, two orthree different television
stations and different things.
You know, I've got one part ofmy market where one of our top
salesmen live.
Well, all the televisioninvolvement in that area and
influence is all coming out ofanother state.
So the two states that we buyin, they don't even reach there,

(15:14):
and so you've got to be alittle bit more creative.
So it leaves all these greatpockets of opportunity.
And so for us, we've seen thatthe process will work.
If the process of our excuse meselection has worked, we can
turn around and match that withour training process and it's
pretty predictable what that'sgoing to do to the top line.
And so, like we know, next year?

(15:35):
Apologize, we've got two greatpeople coming through our
training right now.
Well, we already know what thatmeans in an average of numbers,
that that's going to add to ourbottom line In the market that
they're in.
You know it's going to add 35%,you know, to the top line and
so it's kind of foolish to goout and struggle a little bit
further when we haven'tmaximized.

(15:56):
You know what we've got andevery time we think like how
much more can we do in this onemarket, our eyes are open to how
much more opportunity there isthere, how many opportunities we
didn't even get to be in frontof a customer and all those
different things.
So just going deeper with thatit also buys us more time
because we want to promote fromwithin.
We made a decision early onlike we're not going to take

(16:19):
advantage of an opportunity forexpansion at the expense of our
culture.
So the longer our guys that wekeep them closer and we're
growing deeper, the further wecan push them out and feel like
we have the confidence tocontinue to replicate that
culture over and over again.
So it's kind of a win.
We're not forced to do it.
So you know it's more costeffective to do it where we're
at, causes our people to grow,you know, more mature, and then,

(16:41):
when it's time to maybe go twodifferent ways we'd be in a
position to do it instead ofjust being able to do it.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
you know, once a year you made a statement that you
have the two additional teammembers and you know it was very
certain language that you knowthe outcome of these new team
members.
How do you know?

Speaker 2 (17:02):
that We've really got a process dialed in on our
training where, if we go throughthe process of really selecting
that person, we are committedto that person.
And so there's a full-timetrainer that his sole job is to
onboard that guy through abootcamp for six weeks.
They're passed off for another90 days as they're selling to a
training coach.

(17:23):
That's a mentor, where they'reriding in the truck with that
guy who's a high performer, oneday a week, it doesn't matter
what their schedule is.
They're going to do that forthe next 90 days.
We know if they follow thatprocess we can go back through
like last year run the averagesof every guy that sold for a
full calendar year come up withthe average of what's going to
be sold, and it's considerablymore than what our minimum is to

(17:43):
onboard a guy, and so we canbase numbers and projections on
next year, not really doanything different.
It's going to be pretty safe tobet.
This is what that's going toadd to the line Now.
Fortunately, like we're talkingnow, the economy is looking
better.
You know mindset of people.
There's a lot more buyer'sconfidence.
Money's getting releasedalready.
A little bit earlier, just evenon the other side of this

(18:04):
election.
It had a big bearing where wewere at, in people's minds, and
so we see lots of opportunitieson the runway that's ahead.
It will really come down to thematter of people that we can
continue to hire.
It's the same thing.
You don't want to select man.
I was able to add six more ofthese great consultants to sell.
If I can't match that with myproduction, we're going to live

(18:25):
up to our reputation and ourpromise.
It's the selection of theentire team, not just certain
aspects of it, and some areharder to find than others.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
For sure.
What stage or phase of yourbusiness do you think that this
really kind of aligned like?
You really got to a point whereit was like, yeah, we're, we're
there, or this is, or this isthe we know.
This is exactly what we have todo.
Like was it early on?
Was it in the middle stages,has it been more recently?

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Well, yeah, I think there was.
There was different milestonesfor that.
Yeah, we started out withknowing we wanted to in the
early days, 16 years ago.
We want to provide a differentexperience and we want a
different type of peoplegenerally to represent us.
So we did that from thebeginning.
But a lot of the other stuff wewere doing, what we knew and
what we had seen other people do.

(19:18):
Now, one of the things I thinkwe did really right in the very
beginning is like OK, weidentified if someone will keep
their word and provide anamazing customer experience in
an industry that lacksprofessionalism, lacks integrity
and is selling a commodity,quite honestly, anybody could go
sell it how can you stand outand be different?
We went and studied Nordstrom,disney, chick-fil-a Nordstrom,

(19:40):
disney, chick-fil-a I'm leavingone out, but that's where we
went to the high Ritz-Carlton.
We went to the high serviceindustry None of them in our
industry, but there wereprinciples in that that we knew
that we could apply.
We're hiring people, they hirepeople.
They're serving people.
We're serving people.
Matter of fact, even some ofour language began to change.
We take a craftsman that comesin and, like you guys are

(20:01):
notoriously great with yourhands.
You're not good communicatingwith people?
Okay, and you know, we take aconsultant that comes in and
you're great with people.
Sometimes you're not great withyour hands.
So what we want to do is wewant to marry the two.
You guys need to understand weare, we are craftsmen and
professionals and every daywe're going out serving ladies
and gentlemen.
You take that mindset and thatapproach.
It elevates the game foreverybody.

(20:21):
It elevates the expectation youknow all the way back to like
this is why I need to read abook.
This is why I can be better.
You know, for us you can makeexcuses or progress, but you
can't do both.
And as quick as you can come tothe point that excuses are
really nothing more than areason stuffed into a lie.
Then you start owning whereyou're at and quit complaining

(20:42):
about where you're not, and thenthat empowers people to really
begin to move.
I believe the perspective thingis one of the most powerful
things, because how you viewthings determines how you do
things, and so we start early on, change the perspective.
You're not in the roofingindustry, you're not just a
roofing salesman, you're notjust a craftsman Salespeople

(21:04):
generally.
You view sales from thestandpoint of what people are
doing to other people.
We're viewing, and I want youto view salespeople as what
you're doing for people.
It's not what I'm taking, it'swhat I'm adding.
When those perspectives startchanging, they come out in your
language, come out in your bodylanguage.
Customers pick up on thatquickly and you've heard the

(21:25):
stories.
I mean you know somebody's justleaving.
They've called for threeappointments.
The other guy's getting in thetruck.
He's like do I need to comeback a little bit later?
No, I've hated that guy.
I knew you didn't like him assoon as he stepped out the truck
.
I hadn't even spoke to him yet.
You know people, customers canjust read that.
So you change the perspectiveof your team.
That's kind of been one of ourapproaches.
I'm sorry, I'm kind of ramblinghere.

(21:46):
No, you're good, but man, therewere just milestones.
That was the first thing thatwe kind of did, right, and then.
But I got so consumed in thebusiness it tapped out really
quick and then I knew what Ineeded to do.
I needed to quit working in thebusiness so much and work on it
.
That was the next big turningpoint.
And but where was?
That was the next big turningpoint.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Where was that?
Where was that around Revenuesize or team size?
What was that pivot point whereyou went?
Oh, there's something thatneeds to change here, and it's
what I'm doing every day.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, we really wanted to scale the business.
So I guess there was two things, and they happened in fairly
close proximity.
The first big one for us waswhen we started.
You know it was all about theinsurance world.
That's what we did.
There really wasn't a marketingbudget Different people but we
were drumming up word of mouth.
You know we were door knocking.
You know, when you looked atthat it looked like a
traditional model you might seein just the roofing industry as

(22:37):
a whole Realized.
You know, that's not reallywhat we want to do.
We want to turn this into aretail model and we want to do
it in a concentrated area.
That was a big move.
And so then the next big moveis, once we begin to do that,
it's like okay, you know, if wewant to be able to scale this
now, I've got to spend more timeworking on the business.
But you know I don't get paid acommission and I'm selling the

(23:01):
most in the business.
So how many people am I goingto have to hire to replace that,
to break even again?
And when you're not huge atthat point, you know some people
are just not willing to takethat risk.
That was a big juncture for us.
Once we did that, though, Ithink the next big thing is we
really started to understandculture on a deeper level, so I
really began to research andstudy that.
It's like, yeah, it's moreabout people and you know you

(23:22):
want to care about them and it'swhere you work and you want
them to have fun.
It's like, no, we went deep onthat, and then we started having
a real conviction, like we'refortunate we've gotten this far,
because what we should havedone is identified all of this
culture stuff, because it'sfoundational everything, and we
would be 10 years ahead, and sothat was probably about six
years ago that we really startedseeing the benefit of that, and

(23:44):
so retaining people and gettingthis high, high engagement in
the customer service we alwayshad good reviews.
Now we start getting greatreviews, a lot of reviews and
then the last one has beenwithin the last two years, when
we focused on we're going to setaside our best salesman is how
we pilot the program.
Another kind of gutsy move forus Like we want you to be a

(24:06):
full-time trainer, and so webegin to pilot that program.
Then we added another program tothat, called like Rilla.
You may be familiar with that.
It's like how do we, how do wetake that guy across three
states and not just onboardpeople, but make our guys better
?
How can he be a coach to them?
The only way you can be areally good coach is you have to

(24:28):
be able to review the game tape.
And so what we identified waswe were trying to figure out a
way how can we get you sittingat the table without being a
distraction to the homeowner andthe project consultant, not
changing their pitch becauseyou're there and being
intimidated and help them themost.
And so when we found thisprocess and begin to use that,

(24:48):
then we could really begin tocoach guys up.
I mean, you did great on this,but right here is where we can
help you, and we started movingthe needle on close rates.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Not all of the best, all of the best players, become
the best coaches.
How did you overcome that?
Or how did you measure that Notall of the best players become
the best coaches?
How did you overcome that?
Or how did you measure that?
How did you make thoseadjustments if you needed to?

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Well, it's really funny in that particular role
that we're talking about,because you're absolutely right,
you know, success in one areadoesn't guarantee success in
another, and a lot of times it'salmost a competing strength,
and our culture worked in ourfavor in that arena too.
The guy that we asked to stepinto that role we could have
never asked to step into thatrole five years ago when he came

(25:29):
on board.
But he's not the same guy fiveyears later as he was, and he
trusted us and we had enoughrelationship.
We're going to pioneer some andwe think this is what this is
going to look like.
Here's what you know you'llmake, here's what we think you
can make.
He took almost an equal risk,but because of that it allowed
us to kind of maneuver throughthat, and then he went on and

(25:51):
you know we really train ourguys to.
You know, it's almost like haveyour own life mission statement
, and so you know I wanteverybody we hire to retire from
here, will they no?
Everybody we hire to retirefrom here, will they no?
But what we do want is that youcan turn around.
So you know what I'm a betterperson because I work there.
I'm a better father, I'm abetter husband.
I'm just a better citizen, abetter man, because I worked at
integrity, and so that's exactlywhat happened to him and during

(26:13):
the course of this, financiallyhis life just really got
changed through a variety ofthings.
He made a lot of money here.
One of our guys here reallytaught some principles of
budgeting and he connected withhim early on and it changed not
just his life but generationallyand he's seen that, and so part
of his life mission statementwas if I ever get an opportunity

(26:33):
to be able to go help otherpeople in their finances, to
learn and benefit from what I'velearned, I want to do that.
That literally happened.
That transition happened abouttwo months ago and he went to
work for Edward Jones and that'swhat he's doing every day.
But because the culture wasstrong, there was another guy
excuse me that had been beingmentored for four years.

(26:54):
He had our heart, he had ourculture, he had benefited
already from the experience ofthe former leader and he was
able to step right into thatroad different skillset.
So he's approaching it, youknow the same way, but he's
building onto.
So it will only become betterbecause of that, and again, I
attribute most of that toculture and the kind of people
that were selected through theculture.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, that selection process has to be the key of it.
Right Like that, that's the keypiece.
It's the, you know to the, tothe old adage higher slow, fire
fast, or something like thatright, like you're, you're
living that, you're not justsaying it, you're living it.
During those times, like therehas to be, especially during

(27:35):
those shifts in the businesswhere you're starting to take,
you know, step out of certainroles you're not selling as much
, maybe, or as an owner, you'renot selling as much, or when
you're transitioning your youknow, some of your top
salespeople into trainers,there's a, there has to be a
trade off in that time.
I think that there's a fearwith, with business owners in

(27:57):
that trade like cause, there's agap in profitability.
That happens there, right, andyou gotta make that leap.
And were there?
The question that I wanna askis more what personal sacrifices
did you make in that timeframeso that the business could do

(28:17):
what it needed to do?
Were there any of those momentswhere you said, well, I'll just
not take a set.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, there was, I think, for every good business
owner.
It's a calculated risk.
Yes, believe in the direction,strong enough to do it.
You know there's a risk, butyou think the predictability and
the odds of success are greaterand it's just worth it.
And so I think that's what youknow.
Some people get paralyzed, Ithink, in the analysis of

(28:46):
paralysis, with all the whatever.
Well, you know, change all ofthat and, just, you know, take a
little bit of risk.
No, no, go stupid.
But I think the cost for thatwas the answer that would be
different at different junctures.
The biggest cost, when wedecided, you know what, we're
going local, we're going with atotal retail model, we went
backwards in revenue as acompany and you know it didn't

(29:08):
necessarily set the world onfire a year later.
But then we started, you know,three years ago we had a
three-year period where wedoubled in size.
So what happens is much likecompound interest, if you
believe in it and you hold on toit and you survive with it.
It may be incremental in thebeginning but it becomes
exponential and compounding and,like now, we're riding the wave

(29:32):
of a lot of that compounding.
But you're right, the selectionprocess is so deeply connected
to the culture component and Idon't think most business owners
connect the two.
You can have theseconversations and they will
mentally assent that.
I know that's important andthat's a good idea and depending

(29:52):
on where they're at in theirgrowth and how much they've
stepped away to really work onit.
Let's be honest, most of us hadthe dream to go in business for
ourselves and say we're inbusiness for ourselves, to be
our own boss, to to have theflexibility, and what we did is
we created a job where we workmore.
There's some people that workfor us, that we that make more
than what we do and we have moreresponsibility, all the

(30:12):
liability.
And it's like is this reallywhat you signed up for?
And yet you've just createdthis job and you're afraid to
give up your job, to go back andreclaim your company and work
on it.
Sometimes I think there justneeds to be a reset.
This is why I got into this andso, if not, I need to go work
for somebody else.
This is why I got into it.
I need to.
How do I get that back oncourse?
My point was is you know, I'mworried about making payroll,

(30:35):
dealing with the IRS and thiswork, comp audit.
I've got that all sounds great,but I don't have time for the
culture.
Well, that's like saying youknow I got a wall to build here,
yeah, but you forgot to do thefoundation.
You don't understand.
I've got to finish the wallLike for what reason it's not
going to matter.
The first time we have a stormis you're not building it on a
firm foundation, and so I don'tthink you can select and build

(30:55):
your team until you know what Iwant my culture to look like and
I figured out a way tocommunicate that to you.
That drives your behavior on adaily basis.
Otherwise, I'm trying to manage10 different companies.
We're already managing 10different personalities.
You know it needs to be onecompany, one voice, rowing one
direction, with a shared valuedsystem.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
You're doing the events now around a lot of this,
the Culture Near events.
Explain those a little bit.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, it's something that we're developing.
We do a little bit of speaking,you know, in some mastermind
groups, stuff like that.
We're hosting our second group.
We have one of these coming upin February.
It's called the Ripple EffectExperience, and that whole event
is focused on culture, and sothere will be six speakers.
We hosted our Culture Nearpodcast hosted, so I'll be one

(31:44):
of the speakers, and then I'llbring in five different speakers
and, like, one of them willcome from the nonprofit world,
and the other four, though, aregoing to come from various
backgrounds.
One of the speakers used to bethe president of Kentucky Fried
Chicken, you know.
One owns a home health carecompany, you know one is, you
know, owns a couple ofChick-fil-A's, and he's an
executive coach, and so theykind of cover the gamut.
But what we have in common iseverybody understands the

(32:06):
importance of culture, and theyhave a track record of proving
how they've been able to usethat and be able to scale that,
and so it's the principle ofculture and people across any
industry that can be applied,and so we're looking for
additional ways to do that.
Eventually, that's going to endup into what we call these
three-day, two-night summits,where we bring people to our

(32:27):
properties and we take a smallergroup and we do a much deeper
dive on some of these topics.
But that's some of the thingswe're doing on a bigger level
and that event is geared towardsthree audiences.
If you're the entrepreneur, themid-level manager or you're the
aspiring leader, all daySaturday you're going to get
eight hours of stuff that willreally help propel you forward.
You know, taking people's lifeexperience.

(32:48):
There's a Friday nightcomponent to that kind of a VIP
and you have to be the head ofthe organization to be at that
and we're just going to spendtime with all of those speakers,
kind of picking their brain,networking you know that kind of
thing During that time and ifyou do it, with the events they
do and the training that you dointernally, what type of
exercises can a business ownerdo to start moving in this

(33:12):
direction?

Speaker 1 (33:15):
What are the exercises that a that a business
owner can do to start to pourthat foundation?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, I think the first thing is is not
necessarily this order, but youneed to do an assessment of
where you're at and you can'tcompletely do that on your own,
so you have to create amechanism and a value to assess.
You know where I can tell youmy culture at may be different
than what the accountingdepartment saying and the guy
swinging the hammer in the field, and their opinion is really

(33:42):
what counts because that's thereality.
It's kind of like the customerreviews oh, we're great, you
know we have all these peoplethat, yeah, let's read your
reviews.
That's the report card thatreally matters.
And so I would say, do anhonest assessment.
Matter of fact, if you go toterrygwaldingcom that's where
our culture and your stuff popsup is a free assessment and you
can take that and there's like10 questions on there and it's

(34:03):
designed for you to take it asthe owner, but then turn around
and you circulate that form toall of your, all your team and
then compare notes how far wereyou off, and I thought we were
good in this and make itanonymous so you get really good
feedback.
So there's a lot of ways to doit and you know that's kind of a
surface level, but you need todo an assessment Like, where am
I at Really, where are we reallyat?
And then I think you need to goback and revisit.

(34:30):
You know I met this gentlemanthe other day and you know he's
taken over a third generationbusiness.
You know we started talking.
You know I want to be able toselect people the right way and
he'd been at one of these events.
And so now we're.
Do you have a mission statement, a vision statement?
Yeah, yeah, we have that.
I said, well, is it yours?
Well, actually, no, I'm workingon tweaking that right now.
I said, well, that's where youneed to focus your time.
You're asking how to select andwho.

(34:52):
You first got to figure out whoyou want.
This is as important as a jobdescription.
You need to be able to tellthem where you're going, because
part of your leading andrecruiting and selecting is
vision.
People will come on board manytimes for less money if they
believe in where you're goingand that's where they want to
arrive.
So you need to know what thatis.
You need to be able to reallycommunicate with them how you're
going to do that, what makesyou different.

(35:13):
That's the mission part of that.
And then man, put your corevalues on.
What is important to you Don'tmake it super hard.
What is important to you?
Don't don't make it super hard.
What is important to you, thatare the essentials when you're
going to do business.
That's what you want, all thosepeople.
When you figure that out, thenyou craft your questions in your
selection process.
That's what you're looking for,because your resume is going to
be a highlight reel from theirfriends.

(35:33):
It's almost going to beworthless.
So spend the time to invest inthat process, because what I
want to know is I don't want toverify your information in the
interview I want to know what'smade you up to this point in
your life and then I'm going toask real specific questions that
too deep, are telling me what Ireally want to know.

(35:54):
I think assessing where you'reat, figuring out exactly where
you're going and then gettingthose down and how I'm going to
do it and what's important.
Okay, now I can go back in who'swilling to go in the direction
we're going, because if youdidn't start this from the
beginning, there's going to besome of your team you're going
to have to promote to customers.
You're going to spend more timetrying to clean up their mess
than you are going out andlooking for somebody else and

(36:16):
unfortunately, I think, many ofus we get so busy and we don't
manage our time properly and wedon't have the right perspective
.
We're a firefighter in ourbusiness and so our hiring
becomes reactive, so we're notselecting for where we're going.
We're hiring for a job thathappens to be open for whatever

(36:36):
reason, to put out a fire, andI'm going to be putting out the
same fire six months from nowand a year from now.
I would rather go a year andleave that open.
You know, and select the rightperson.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
I've been talking about this, terry, a lot.
It's like, especially in thebeginning, you're just hiring a
body, right, like you just needsomebody you need a body to do.
Like it doesn.
You don't know who you need,what, you just need help, and
it's man.
It becomes very, verychallenging.

(37:10):
I think that another thing thatI've talked about a little bit
recently is is I think, likeentrepreneurship will change you
, entrepreneurship will changeyou.
It is a school of leadership,it is a school of personal
development.
To really go through years andyears and years of

(37:33):
entrepreneurship and all the upsand downs that come along with
it and the skill sets that youneed to learn at different
places in your business, atdifferent stages of your
business.
My goodness, it becomes like itbecomes the.
You know you get your master'sdegree in personal development
in some ways right.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, I think you have to have a commitment to be
a lifetime leader.
Yes, you know.
Otherwise, you know two thingswill happen You're too insecure
to tell somebody what you know,or you'll tell your people
everything you know other.
Otherwise, you know two thingswill happen You're too insecure
to tell somebody what you know,or you'll tell ever.
You'll tell your peopleeverything you know, and then
you have no place to take themand so much like how do you get
people to read?
You know a book every two weeksis because you know I'm going

(38:14):
to read two or three books amonth.
You know I've already read allthe books I'm asking them to
read and so you know I can'tgive them what I don't have.
So, yes, there is a lifetimecommitment.
You know that leader casts atall shadow and unfortunately,
we lead more by what we do andwhat we model than what we say.
And yeah, it's a great.
So how do we?

(38:34):
You know?

Speaker 1 (38:37):
there's the old phrase fake it till you make it.
I don't like that very much,right, but but in a way you all
you know, in in a way you areright, like in a.
In a way you are maybe, maybeyou haven't made it, maybe you
are not the person that thatthat casts that great shadow,
the leader that casts that greatshadow.

(38:57):
Yet how do you give yourselfthe grace to go from those early
years with the intention ofgetting to that leadership level
?

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah, you know, I think you have to be
appreciative and look backwardsand we're very forward looking.
You know, people can get in aditch either way.
They spend all their timeliving their life in the
rearview mirror.
Or you know it's all pie in thesky and what's in front of them
, and I think it's a healthy mixof both.
Or you know it's all pie in thesky and what's in front of them
, and I think it's a healthy mixof both.

(39:29):
You know we have this statement,you know.
You know I might not be where Iwant to be, but thank God I'm
not where I used to be, and soit's a reminder that I have a
long way to go and I'm notperfect.
I also need to remind myself Imade a lot of progress.
You know, I'm not the level oftransparency that he's willing
to have with the team that he'sleading.
You know, they already knowmost of your weaknesses anyway,

(39:49):
and so I don't believe you needto go share everything, but I do
think there's a certainconnection and empathy that
comes with.
Like.
You know, guys, I really feellike this is the move we need to
make.
It may not be the right move,but I really believe in enough
that we're going to risk it andtry it.
And you know we're going tocommit to this six months and
we're all in.
This is what is costing us.
But if it doesn't work, prideis not going to be the reason we

(40:13):
continue it.
We're going to say this hasbeen a costly learning lesson
and we're going to be betterbecause of it and it's kept our
innovation.
It's caused people to buy in.
It's allowed the leader to takea risk and fail because they're
not a failure.
We teach the people all thetime.
You know failure is when youfall down and you refuse to get
up.
Failing is a learning process.
That's experience we can buildoff of that.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
I think that's the mindset right, like that's the
mindset shift, no-transcript.

(41:03):
And we started walking throughthe things that they had built
out and what I realized was thatthere was just a lot of loose
ends, a lot of unfinishedprojects, and they had so much
of the structure there, but theyjust didn't connect this to
that yet.
They didn't plug it in right,like they have the.

(41:27):
But it was that they didn't seethe results of their actions
yet.
They had not seen the resultsof their actions.
They have not seen the fruit oftheir labor yet.
They just were toiling in theirlabor right, right, the hooks
are on the wheel, that's right.
And sometimes it's just thatit's a little thing right that

(41:50):
can take, that that can move theneedle from here to there.
How do you, how would you, whatadvice would you give someone
to to continuously grow in thereas a business owner, in their
personal life, as a leader?

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, well, I think a couple of things I think.
First, you know you need toadopt the mindset of I'm a
lifetime learner, number one.
I think there's some key thingsyou need to understand.
Potential is not what you are,it's what you need to become,
and you're not competing againstthe guy across the street,
across town or in the next stateEvery day when you get up.
You're competing against theguy in the mirror.

(42:26):
So what I need to be tomorrowis a better version of the guy
that I'm looking at today.
How do I do that?
And then, I think, a firm,healthy understanding of like a.
You know, I always questionpeople's motivation to be a
leader.
If you're a good leader, youunderstand there's a whole lot.
There's a whole lot of thatthat, like nobody in their right
mind would sign up for it, youknow.
And so if the motives are rightand you're a more servant

(42:50):
oriented leader, I think thatdrives you too, because the
better leader I am, the moreinfluence I have Now.
Do I want the influence becauseit gives me more privilege and
money and all the other thingsmaybe that come with that, or do

(43:10):
I want that because I reallywant my life to count?
I want to make a difference, Iwant to pour into somebody else
and see that investment, and Ithink that fuels a lot of that.
You have to get the rightmindset on the right definition.
What's your motive to even be aleader?
It's like if your only motiveto be in business I want to make
as much money as I can.
Well, that's going to be ashort run.
It's going to be prettyunfulfilling, to be quite honest
.
So how you measure success,when you achieve it, you're

(43:32):
probably going to be bankrupt ina whole lot of other areas of
your life, and so we're workingon a course right now.
It's something that we'rereally passionate about, and so
we use this process.
We go through with all of ourteam, we use it in the hiring,
we use it every three months inan evaluation and kind of job
sculpting.
We call it like a life 360.

(43:53):
And we'll take their life andwe have it divided in six major
categories that represent theirwhole life, and it becomes an
assessment tool.
Like we really want to know howare you doing in your finances
right now and how are you doingin the area with your family,
like your immediate family?
And so we break all those areasdown, and one of the new things
that I'm rolling out for nextyear is we're going to take that
to another level and we'regoing to teach them how to

(44:15):
create a 360 life plan for thewhole year.
So, if you think about yourbusiness, what's the vision
statement you have for your lifethis year?
You know kind of what's themission statement for that.
You know what are your goals.
And I started it yesterday withour group and we started.
I started by teaching them your, our challenge this week and
our exercises.
You're going to write youreulogy.

(44:36):
I said, just like anything inbusiness, we're going to begin
with the end in mind.
And I said I want you to thinkabout this for a minute.
And I said I know that sounds alittle bit morbid.
I said I know that sounds alittle bit morbid, but I'm going
to teach you all these othercomponents because I want you to
have a vision for all six ofthese areas of your life,
because I don't believe there'ssuch thing as work life balance.
I think there's a work lifeintegration, and so they're
intricately tied.

(44:57):
You think about if you have aheart attack.
That doesn't just affect yourhealth, that affects how you
interact with your family.
Now it also affects how you'reinteracting at work.
So every portion of your lifedoesn't get an equal amount of
time, but it needs to get theproper amount of time.
And I think we have these hardcharging business owners and we

(45:18):
end up in two ditches.
We figure out where we getrecognition, where we get
fulfillment and what we thinksuccess is, and then we turn
around and it's like man, we'vemade a lot of money but we're
bankrupt.
In our relationship with ourwife she feels like you know,
that we're just a roommate.
We're bankrupt.
Our kids don't like us andthey're going through stuff as
teenagers and we're not evenable to connect with them.

(45:39):
And so some people will say youknow what?
I'm going to give all that upand go be an employee because I
got to go back and try to savemy family.
You know, or you'll have otherpeople.
You know, it's just theopposite, and I personally
believe we can teach people howto win at work and win at home,
you know, but you have to startit with like where do I want to
end up?
And so that whole eulogy thing.
It's like think about a vacation, the first thing I have to

(45:59):
decide before I go on vacationis the destination, once I
figure out where I'm going and Ican figure out how long it's
going to take me, what's mytransportation, where am I going
to stay, what's my activities,and so let's, let's take this
long view of your life thatyou're heading on.
You can make more money, butyou'll never spend more time.
You'll never be able to reclaimthe time that we spent together
today.
And so see yourself in a movieat your funeral and and list out

(46:25):
who's going to be there, likewho's alive.
Now that would still be alive.
Okay, you know, start with yourfamily, start with your
colleagues, start with yourfriends, start with the people
you go to church with.
Okay, now let's break that down, prioritize that list.
Okay, now just give me onestatement out of that list.
It's like what do you want yourwife to say about you at your
funeral?
What do you want your kids tosay about you at your funeral?

(46:47):
What do you want your kids tosay about you?
Okay, so you start goingthrough that.
I said now let's take that,because you're not just going to
drift there and end up there.
Hope's not a strategy.
And so now let's break thatdown one year at a time, and
where do you want to be in yourfinances next year?
Where do you want to be in yourrelationships next year?
Now, let's create a visionstatement for that, and let's
hold ourself accountable thatlet's look at that every quarter

(47:07):
, let's look at it every week,and let's create this giant page
.
This is what I want my life tolook like, in other words, order
that life, and so we're reallygoing to use that this year, too
, because we're so invested inour people, which again ties
back into your culture.
I add enough value to ourpeople.
They'll go into hell with awater pistol for me, and when

(47:29):
they know I've got their backand they know they're going to
be a better person becausethey're here and they're much
more than a number, and so Ithink a lot of those smaller
things taking the time to dothat, they just reinforce that.
There's so many of thoseelements, though.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, and I like the way you put it.
There's not a's, not a there's.
I'm a big.
I don't believe in work lifebalance either.
Right, there's like nothing isbalanced in your life at any.
You know the six core thingsthat are that make up that life.
It's not an equal pie chart Allright, something to think about

(48:03):
, but it but.
But the things that you focuson will grow, but the things
that you focus on will grow.
So if you take your eye off ofyour work to focus on
relationships, you have to haveyour eyes on a lot of places at
the same time in your life.
How would you feel peopleshould balance that?

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Well, I think it goes back to a little bit of that
exercise.
But they need know, they needto understand their priority.
And then to what you said.
You know they're not equal piecharts.
You know I'm not going to beable to go home and spend eight
hours with my wife tonight whenI'm going to spend 10 hours of
work today.
You know what.
But she probably doesn't wanteight hours anyway.
But what she does want is shewants quality, not quantity.

(48:46):
So she doesn't need me sittingthere while I'm on the phone.
She needs me to be engaged inlistening to what she has to say
.
If she got an hour of that,that's worth more than eight
hours.
I need to be in the gym andtaking care of my health, but an
hour is about all I'm probablygoing to be able to do, you know

(49:07):
, even though I may have worked10 hours.
So again, it's not equal.
But if I rob that one hour,there may be days I'm never at
work Cause I haven't taken careof, I've taken for granted, I've
taken for that aren't alwaysgoing to be there through these
false assumptions.
Well, I'm always going to havethis energy level and I'm always
going to have this certainamount of strength and I'm
always going to know you're not.
And so if you don't have a planfor that, and so I think the

(49:31):
assessments and how often you dothat keeps that in front of you
.
And for us, we have like acoach on our team that will sit
with them and, like you know,you said on a scale of one to 10
, you were at an eight last timein your finances and you know
your relationships were, youknow, out of two this, your
finances and, and you know yourrelationships were, you know,
out of two.
This time you're at five atyour finances and you're at an
eight in your relationship.

(49:51):
So you know what's what's goingon, and so you kind of help
them self-diagnose.
That, yeah, but we'll do crazythings, you know that, because
we believe that we, we, for us,it's more than an exercise, we
really believe in it.
And so, like I'll take our keylevel, guys, and part of an eval
is I want you to tell me howoften are you dating your wife?
Well, you know no.
Is she on your calendar?

(50:13):
Do you have a shared calendar?
And are you taking her out?
Because what you did to get her, the same thing that you're
going to need to keep her andshe needs to have something to
look forward to all week.
She's important enough to stillbe on your calendar, and so
this is not all about dollarsand cents, but I can tell you
you start having problems inyour marriage.
The guy that I hired that wasmy top performer for six months

(50:34):
won't be till you get divorced,and you won't be the same guy
six months afterwards.
And so trying to get businessowners to look at this, I'm like
man.
I don't have the time for thatand that's just an extra expense
in my company.
No, it's an investment.
What's?
it going to cost you to replacethat person?
What's it going to cost whenthey're not engaged?
What's it going to cost nottaking care of your culture and

(50:56):
they're telling you one thing,but as soon as you leave the
room they're doing somethingelse.
It's an investment.
All this is about a long-termpicture.
So if you're in this thing forget rich quick and overnight,
you know it's a race to thebottom, but, man, if you've got
a vision of where you want toend up and it's long term,
you'll make an investment.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
That's awesome, terry , there's a lot to think about
there.
There's a lot to.
There's always something towork on, right, we always have
stuff to work on.
Right, we always have stuff towork on.
I hear you talking aboutmeasurement of things.
Right, and then that is thatusing those measurements to make
, to make those adjustments thatyou need.

(51:36):
It's not just in the time fromsigned contract to materials
order.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
No, no, because you can't really.
You can't effectively managewhat you can't measure.
You know, I think a lot oftimes, just like people try to
use hope as a strategy.
I hope I make more money nextyear, I hope my marriage gets
better, I hope my close rategoes up.
But again, not a strategy.
So measure something, that's aplan.
So what's your close rate now?
Okay, what do you want it to be90 days from now?

(52:03):
Okay, how often are we going tolook at that?
We're not going to wake up andbe surprised Well, 90 days, I
didn't move at all.
You should have known that 60days ago.
And so you just kind of startworking all that backwards.
And I think that's the power ofthe measurements and the
constant check-in.
We're big on too.
I think most of us, if we haveany kind of success, we're
committed to working on ourweaknesses.

(52:24):
The problem is not necessarilyour weaknesses, it's our blind
spots, and so if you don'tcreate a culture that can speak
into your blind spots, you'renever working on the things that
everybody else already knows isyour biggest weakness, and
we'll do some exercises evenaround that.
But you know, it takes again acertain level of vulnerability
with a certain level of trust,which really only comes out of a

(52:45):
certain level of relationship.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
How do you differentiate a blind spot from
a weakness?

Speaker 2 (52:51):
The weakness.
I think you're aware of theblind spot others are aware of
and you're clueless, and so Igot to figure out a way to get
that information, to be able tomeasure that, so I can go to
work on that.
It's kind of like that wholeperception Our perception is our
reality, but our realitydoesn't mean it's really reality
.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
That's right.
Eliminate your blind spots,Terry.
It's been a pleasure.
This has been another episodeof the Roofing Success Podcast.
You, you, you, you, you.

(55:18):
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(55:40):
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