March 25, 2025 • 30 mins
🎙️ Episode 8: The Essentials of a Compliant Training System
In this episode of the RTO Superhero Podcast, Angela Connell-Richards is joined by Maciek Fibrich to explore what it takes to build a compliant, high-quality training system under the revised Standards for RTOs (1.1 & 1.2). They break down the key compliance requirements, common pitfalls, and practical strategies to ensure your training delivery aligns with industry needs.
🎙️ Key discussion points include:
✅ Structuring and pacing training – How to ensure compliance while delivering effective learning.
✅ Avoiding condensed course pitfalls – Why accelerated training models can put compliance at risk.
✅ Aligning training with industry expectations – Ensuring your training meets workforce demands.
✅ Common compliance mistakes – Where RTOs go wrong and how to fix it.
✅ Best practices for training design – Strategies for creating engaging, compliant training programs.
Angela and Maciek bring real-world insights, compliance expertise, and actionable solutions to help RTOs navigate the complexities of structured training delivery while maintaining compliance and student success.
Join host Angela Connell-Richards as she opens each episode with a burst of insight and inspiration. Discover why compliance is your launchpad to success, not a limitation.
Connect with fellow RTO professionals in our free Facebook groups: the RTO Community and RTO Job Board. Visit rtosuperhero.au/groups to join today.
Wrap up with gratitude and guidance. Subscribe, leave a review, and join our community as we continue supporting your compliance journey in vocational education.
Thank you for tuning in to the RTO Superhero Podcast!
We’re excited to have you join us as we focus on the Revised Standards for RTOs in 2025. Together, we’ll explore key changes, compliance strategies, and actionable insights to help your RTO thrive under the new standards.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela Connell-Richards (00:13):
Welcome to the RTO Superhero Podcast
with me, angela Connell-Richardsand my guest speaker, maychek,
who's here also helping me tobreak down these standards.
Well, it's finally here.
You had your head in the sandand you didn't know what was
happening on Friday.
Well, the new standards forRTOs 2025 have officially landed
(00:36):
.
After three years of waiting,drafting, consulting and
speculating, maycheck, can youbelieve we're actually talking
about the final version today?
Maciek Fibrich (00:45):
Final version legislated in there in place,
absolutely.
Angela Connell-Richards (00:50):
It's just crazy that it feels like so
long since we've been workingon this and I remember in 2019,
we were talking about the skillsreform so it's just been around
for so long, so we've been.
That's been 10 years since thelast change yes, and 10 years
(01:11):
yes, and about bloody time.
It's taken long enough.
So we're going to be breakingdown what we think is different
and what we think is justbasically what we had before,
maybe just some refinements onit.
But we've been dissecting allof the draft policies, the
(01:31):
practice guides, the draftstandards and all that sort of
stuff and then holding ourbreath, waiting for this to
finally happen.
Now we finally have our outcomestandards, compliance
requirements and credentialpolicy.
What's your initial take on it,maychek?
Maciek Fibrich (01:51):
Look, I think it's great that we finally have
something concrete that we canwork towards, because I think
everyone's sort of been lookingat developing, getting ready for
this July 1 start date.
But it's always been a littlebit nervous Is something going
to change?
Is something going to still be,you know, unknown?
So it's great that we've nowgot that clear guidance from
(02:13):
it's legislated, it's ready togo.
We can now work off a concretedocument and get ready for the
July 1 start date.
Angela Connell-Richards (02:21):
Yeah, and I think also having ASQA
confirmed that their transition,what they're going to be
transitioning starting from the1st of May, and I think that's
really important it means we canactually get down to business
now without having to worryabout a federal election or
anything else changing in oursector.
(02:41):
So I've already done a podcaston the new standards, but I
really wanted to hear your pointof view of these and from what
I've seen, is really qualityarea one and two not a lot of
changes.
Training and assessment ispretty much essentially the same
and trainers don't need toupgrade their qualification
(03:05):
anymore.
Maciek Fibrich (03:06):
What are your thoughts on that?
Look, finally, I think we'vegot some common sense approach
and you know it's going to upset, I think, a lot of TAE
providers who relied on, I guess, that upskilling and I've never
called it upskilling where yougo from a Cert IV to a Cert IV.
I've always sort of spruced thewhole concept.
If you're going to upgrade froma cert four, do a diploma and,
(03:29):
and you know, progress yourskill, and then you know you've
always got that whole uhfallback on diploma or higher
and never had to worry aboutupgrading anyway.
Um, but it's, it's that cultureof continuous improvement in
yourself that I think also needsto be emphasised.
So great that we don't need toupdate to a new Cert 4, at least
(03:49):
from 2010,.
But it's still, you know, onething that we really need to
make sure that with all of ourRTOs, is that we've got this
culture, that it's not just thatyou've got it and that's it,
that you do continue updatingyour skills, both from a
vocational perspective and atraining and assessment
perspective.
Angela Connell-Richards (04:08):
Yeah, and I think that's important for
everyone.
The amount of times and this isone of the things I really like
about the new standards isthey're now making a requirement
that everyone in the teamshould do vet professional
development, because the amountof times I've gone into an RTO
and the staff have no idea aboutthem Absolutely.
Maciek Fibrich (04:29):
You're so right.
And the concept.
Again, we spoke about it a fewlast month, I think.
Where it's that concept of, oh,that's the compliance
consultant or that's thecompliant manager's job?
That concept should never existif the whole of the
organisation understands whatthat culture of compliance is
about and understands thestandards.
Angela Connell-Richards (04:49):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
And I think, when it comes tounderstanding why we're doing
the different things that we dowithin an RTO and it's not like
the management making us do this, it is a requirement under the
legislation of what we need todo so I think that's really good
that they've uh making it thatall team uh should should be
(05:13):
undertaking and including theceo and directors, which uh
often uh get left sort of thinkno, no, I'll send everyone else
to that, I don't need to knowabout the legislation.
Maciek Fibrich (05:26):
Well, at the end of the day, the buck stops with
them.
So you know they do.
Whilst they might havedelegator authority and delegate
power, at the end of the day itstill is their responsibility.
They're the one signing off oneverything.
Angela Connell-Richards (05:37):
Yeah, yeah, totally, and they should
understand what theramifications are if you are
non-compliant, because they'rethe ones that are going to be
effective.
Yeah, yeah.
So when it comes to qualityarea two, vet student support, I
didn't see a lot of change,other than the First Nations.
They didn't emphasise themental health, so it's just more
(05:59):
holistic Thank.
God for that yeah.
Maciek Fibrich (06:01):
And I'm a huge advocate of mental health, don't
get me wrong, but the can ofworms that would open up in
terms of where do you draw theline was always going to be a
challenge.
Angela Connell-Richards (06:10):
Yeah, it's more of a holistic
wellbeing now.
So instead of focusing on sothat was a good thing that
dropped down, because I think ifwe're going to bring in mental
health, we need to do it slowly.
We need to look at overallwellbeing, so I think that's a
(06:33):
great way to start as well.
Okay, so then we get to QualityArea 3, which is Vet Workforce,
and there's been somesignificant changes in there
with regards to trainers andassessors and what are their
requirements, but also PD, butwe're just talking about one of
the really interesting ones isquality area for governance and
(06:57):
looking at risk management.
What are your thoughts aboutthe new risk management
requirements?
Maciek Fibrich (07:02):
Yeah.
So, as we were saying, you know, it's that pendulum swinging
back, isn't it?
We had this for many years.
We had our risk strategies andour risk matrix that we had to
do and that sort of went out 10years ago and here we are back,
and I don't think it's a badthing in any way whatsoever.
I think there's a lot of depthto these requirements under
(07:27):
standard 4.3.
And a lot of people, just likethe concept of not understanding
the term systematicself-assurance, will also
struggle with what riskmanagement is all about.
You know the difference betweena risk and, ultimately, a
hazard in that respect, andreally just trying to work out
how to implement that.
(07:47):
And so the main things thatI've seen there is again that a
lot of RTOs, like mostbusinesses, struggle with
financial management, and herewe've got an RTO must identify,
manage and review risks aroundfinancial position and
performance and cash flow, andso that's interesting.
And then we've got the conceptof systems for identifying and
(08:12):
disclosing apparent, real orapparent conflict of interest,
which makes that quiteinteresting.
Angela Connell-Richards (08:17):
And then also, I think this, I think
that's more to fit and properperson.
Maciek Fibrich (08:20):
Yeah, possibly, and also maybe around agents and
who's selling what.
And then what I think is a goodthing is that whole concept of
delivering to under 18s andthat's been very much driven
into these standards, about therisks to under 18 students,
which again has been spokenabout informally by some
(08:42):
auditors but never sort of putinto writing, even though the
legislation has always beenthere.
So these are all you know, Ithink, good, good practices,
moving forward yeah, I think soas well.
Angela Connell-Richards (08:54):
Um, so I've been around in the industry
for a long time as well and Iremember when we used to do risk
management under the old aqt wethink it was 2007.
I think it was in 2005 and 2007.
And then it was gone when wegot the legislation.
But I think it is an area wherea lot of RTOs it is a weakness,
(09:16):
where they're not looking atthe risks within their RTO and
how they're managing those risks.
I also found it veryinteresting the financial
position and financialperformance and I suppose that
comes down to RTOs who haven'tbeen financially viable and
running insolvent and then shutdown and then the students have
(09:40):
nowhere to go.
So I think that's good thatthey've got those in there.
I love risk management.
Coming from a WHS assessor andbackground in doing that sort of
stuff, I think I used to do alot of ergonomic assessments.
I think it's a really goodthing and I think it's going to
be positive for RTOs toimplement.
Maciek Fibrich (10:03):
Absolutely.
It's like the concept ofplanning and business planning.
The beautiful thing about riskmanagement is that it's designed
, it's not.
A lot of people may see thisagain as a similar to a TAS
document.
It's just a compliance document.
But if you change your approachand your thought process behind
(10:25):
it from being oh, it's just,you know it's for compliance
purposes to actually this makesgood business sense, to help
identify business risk, it'sactually really positive, you
know.
But you've got to change thatmindset away from compliance and
legislation to good businesspractice.
Angela Connell-Richards (10:41):
Yes, a holistic approach for your whole
RTO, because there's stillthere's a lot of businesses, not
just education sector, who arestill being affected by the
pandemic and also with what'sgoing on in America right now
and things like that.
So we do need to be managingthis much better within the RTO,
(11:04):
and that brings us tocontinuous improvement.
So continuous improvement issomething I never threw out.
I always had it as a prioritywithin our policies and
procedures and under the newrequirements, they've actually,
instead of being two littleclauses, it's now much more
expanded.
So it's stating that the RTOundertakes systematic monitoring
(11:26):
and evaluation of theorganisation to support quality
delivery and the continuousimprovement of services.
So when you hear that, what isyour thoughts around what an RTO
needs to have in place in orderto meet that requirement?
Maciek Fibrich (11:41):
Yeah.
So I think the key word thereis improvement of services as
well.
So support, quality deliveryand continuous improvement of
services.
So it's not just aboutcontinuously improving your
training products, it'severything, it's your service,
it's the support that youprovide students, potentially
includes your marketing and soforth.
(12:01):
And so when I look at theconcept of continuous
improvement, again, it's not aone time per year or one audit
per year.
It's about looking at how yourorganization incrementally,
continually, looks at what canwe do better with this.
And you know, as I've got on myyou know general profile, it's
(12:21):
like how do you challenge thestatus quo of what you're doing
to to make it better, as opposedto resting on what's there and
going oh, that's good enough,right, and I think we sometimes
get too comfortable in thatposition.
Angela Connell-Richards (12:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
I always, and I think we havetalked about this before you
should have a culture ofcontinuous improvement
throughout your organisation,and I'm glad to see that this
has more depth to it than whatwe've had in the past, because
basically it was like if youwere non-compliant with any of
(12:58):
the standards, you werenon-compliant with 2.2, whereas
this is now more focused on okay, what do you need to have in
place?
So one of it is that you've gotto have mechanisms in place to
lawfully collect and analysedata, including any feedback
received from vet students,staff, industry, vet regulators,
state and territory trainingauthorities and employers,
(13:20):
current or former students.
So that is very much in linewith the new data security
requirements as well.
Maciek Fibrich (13:29):
Well, I was laughing at the word lawfully,
right.
That's interesting that theyput that in there, because it
sort of makes you wonder whatwas going on previously for them
to want to put that in.
Angela Connell-Richards (13:38):
Well, you know, people used to go to
gravestones and take their namesoff the gravestones and claim
government funding.
Maciek Fibrich (13:45):
Let's not go back to the vet fee help days,
that's fine.
But yeah, look, I think theconcept there of again, students
, staff, industry, regulatorsand authorities and employers of
current and former vet studentsI think that really encompasses
all stakeholders or a lot morestakeholders.
But again, I think a lot ofpeople.
(14:07):
Where they drop the ball withcontinuous improvement is a lot
of organizations collect data,whether it's through process and
necessity because the standardssay so, or actively go out
there.
But where they sort of notnecessarily fail but don't do
things well is they don't takethe data, then analyze it, work
(14:30):
out how it needs to be appliedacross the organization and then
start to implement thoseincremental changes.
And often we find that a lot ofRTOs will get all of this data,
be overwhelmed by the data, putit to the side and go oh,
that's just too hard basket, wewon't worry about it for now,
whereas it's really a matter offinding okay, how do we plan for
(14:51):
these changes?
What are the small things thatwe need to do along the way?
What's the highest risk that wecan identify at the moment?
Again, going back to our riskstrategy, focus on that as a
priority and then filter our waydown to the least highest risk.
Angela Connell-Richards (15:08):
Yeah, yeah, I remember the days of
walking into clients' premisesand there'd be a box of data
they've collected.
Maciek Fibrich (15:17):
What have you done with that?
What have you done?
Angela Connell-Richards (15:18):
with that.
Hey, what have you done withthat?
Oh, we've collected it.
The thing is, nowadays we'redoing it all electronically, so
there's no excuse really thatyou are not using that data,
because even just using chat gpt, you can run that data through
chat gpt and identify what therisks are or and what the
improvements you can make, youknow, based on your scenario.
Maciek Fibrich (15:39):
So, yeah, look, that's definitely, you know,
based on your scenario.
So, yeah, look, that'sdefinitely where you know one of
those things where I think ourindustry is copying a fair bit
of criticism at the moment withAI and students cheating and so
forth.
But if we park that and look atwhat AI can do for us in
business improvement terms, youknow, it's so much more than
(16:00):
just worrying about studentscheating.
It's actually, you know,focusing on how we can speed up
those improvement processes.
Angela Connell-Richards (16:07):
Yeah, and you know, ai is one of my
favourite subjects, but thefuture is AI, and what we when
we just on that subject.
When it comes to students usingit, you should be teaching them
how to use it in an ethicalmanner.
Correct, I?
Maciek Fibrich (16:26):
agree.
Angela Connell-Richards (16:27):
Because they will use it in the future.
Anyway, in the workplace, I useAI all day, every day, so it
should be part of your role.
Maciek Fibrich (16:36):
I think and I know we're digressing a little
bit and I don't really want tomake this about AI, but I think
you know people go oh, ai,plagiarism, like again, we had
AI.
We had plagiarism when we usedto open up the physical
Encyclopedia Britannica, right,when people used to copy it.
Then we had Google Wiki, youknow.
So, every step along the waywe've had these things.
(16:57):
All AI has done is simplifiedthe process Absolutely.
Step along the way we've hadthese things.
All AI has done is simplifiedthe process absolutely.
But again, if you use it as ateaching method and and
encourage students not to do itand and put in policies around,
if it's identified, you'll beasked to sit there and do it
written out or however youdecide to do it within your
organization, then there'simplications around that as
(17:19):
opposed to simply acceptingeverything that you've got.
Angela Connell-Richards (17:22):
So yeah , yeah, and tying that back into
the standards, that reallycomes under your risk management
as well, 100% yeah.
How are you going to managethat risk management?
Maciek Fibrich (17:35):
One thing I will say that and this came up in an
audit a week or so ago is andit was a valid point that the
auditor asked and in the currentstandards I think it's 8.5
maybe about legislation andinforming staff and students of
legislative changes.
Angela Connell-Richards (17:56):
Yeah.
So one of the questions.
The old standard is 5.4,.
Yeah.
Maciek Fibrich (18:02):
Yeah, so well, the current standards that are
still there at the moment.
Talks about informing studentsand staff of legislative changes
, and one of the questions thathe actually asked is how have
you informed your staff andstudents now about the impending
and now changes that are coming, changes that are coming, and
so I think that's one thing thatany of the listeners at the
(18:22):
moment that are running RTOsreally need to look at.
You know, either putting out amemo or a reminder to all their
current staff and students ofthese changes and, potentially,
what impact they might have,maybe an internal guide as to
how the organisation will bechanging, and so I think that's
also important to remember thatthis is a legislative change and
, as such, the organisation willbe changing, and so I think
that's also important toremember that this is a
legislative change and, as such,the organisation needs to be
(18:46):
informed, and internally, theyneed to be informed as well.
Angela Connell-Richards (18:49):
Yeah, yeah On that, I'm just thinking
more about risk management andfinancial viability.
So this is going to be an areawhere I think a lot of RTOs may
struggle, particularly if theyhaven't been through a financial
viability risk assessment.
Some have never, others mayhave.
Maciek Fibrich (19:11):
Some remember the good old days of the old
external auditing yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (19:16):
How do you think RTOs should identify,
manage and review risks relatedto financial position,
performance and cash flowwithout being a financial
advisor?
What are some of the thingsthat you recommend that they
should do?
Maciek Fibrich (19:31):
Yes, as the disclaimer goes, anything I say
is not to be used as financialinformation.
That's correct.
I'm not a financial planner, so, look, I think the most
important thing is within anybusiness, an RTO is just that.
It's a business right.
And so often we get too caughtup in our compliance practices,
(19:52):
our compliance processes and soforth, and as a CEO or as a
manager or as a board, dependingon what level you're at if
you're not reviewing yourfinances on a quarterly or a
monthly basis, then you'reprobably not running a proper
business right.
And so, whether it's having ameeting with your accountant on
(20:12):
a quarterly basis, looking atyour P&Ls, looking at your
balance sheets and looking athow your I guess your lead
indicators not just your KPIsare functioning, I think it's
really important to look at yourbusiness as a whole and then go
okay, what would happen if wehad a downturn?
And look at modeling, just likewe do with our training and
calendars and scheduling, whatwould happen now if we only had
(20:36):
10 people enroll in the nextmonth versus 20?
How would we deal with that?
And so I think part of our riskmanagement approach around that
financial position, financialperformance and cash flow is
really about the what-ifscenarios and how to manage
those within a flexible, I guess, delivery model.
(21:01):
And unfortunately, asqa has alittle bit to answer for here,
because ASQA, their timeframesof processing applications, et
cetera, greatly impact on someof the way that an RTO can
practice, whether it's removingfrom scope or adding to scope,
and the dynamic nature of abusiness sometimes is sometimes
(21:24):
negatively impacted by thedelays within ASQA.
So you know, there's not much wecan do about that, though, but
you as a business still need toaccount for that.
Angela Connell-Richards (21:32):
Yeah, and I think you should be
putting it into your riskmanagement assessment as
possible.
What are the possible scenarios?
And one of the things that I'vereally read into this as well,
and we're starting to see we'vebeen seeing audits in the last
six months is student to trainerand staff ratios.
So identifying what thoseratios are and so if you have a
(21:56):
student drop, what should thatbe?
If you have a student intake,then what should that be?
I found also very interestingis that conflict of interest, so
we fit in proper person andidentifying and disclosing real
or apparent conflicts ofinterest.
What do you think they may be?
Maciek Fibrich (22:18):
Oh look, it's hard to know and any time you
include apparent, it's open forinterpretation and I get scared
of those types of words, to behonest, because that really does
open up.
Oh well, you could have seenthat this is going to turn into
a conflict and really, I thinkin some respects, given that we
are educating the nextgeneration, in whichever
(22:41):
industry that you're in, thereis a level of expectation that
there is transparency, and Ithink the conflict of interest
scenario is there so that thereis transparency over whether you
know if you go get insurance orif you go get a loan.
There's that transparency ofcommissions that are being paid
and I think this is maybe whereit's leading towards, where you
(23:04):
know it's not under the countersort of transactions that are
encouraging enrolments or thingslike that.
Counter sort of transactionsthat are encouraging enrolments
or things like that, obviouslyafter the vet fee helps saga of
incentivising through laptopsand payments and so forth.
This is where I think all comesinto it to say, look, just be
(23:26):
transparent with how you operateand if there is a conflict of
interest, declare it it.
Angela Connell-Richards (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, and honesty is always the
best policy.
I always say, yeah, notdeclaring things and hiding
things.
Yeah, not the way to go.
We also touched on the under18s.
What are your thoughts aroundthat child protection?
Maciek Fibrich (23:46):
Yeah, look, I think there's great strength in
doing this.
Look, I think there's greatstrength in doing this,
especially around the tradesarea, where we do have 16,
17-year-olds that are studyingwith adults.
(24:10):
There's this often perception,depending on the industry that
you're in, that swearing andcarrying on can impact on
someone's experience and I thinkwe sometimes forget, as
educators, as RTOs, that if wedo have someone under 18, they
actually are under 18.
There's challenges that comewith that, because there's very
little literature post-secondaryschool, where someone is a
(24:30):
let's call them an independentyoung adult under the age of 18
about what rights andresponsibilities they have and
are allowed to do with let'scall it excursions or field
trips, et cetera, within RTO.
So I think there's a lot tounpack with that.
But, generally speaking, if youare dealing with anyone under
(24:53):
18, whether it's in a first aidcourse or in cookery or in a
trade, there is a level ofresponsibility that you take on
board and whatever yourprocesses are, it's, you know,
in each state.
It's important to look at yourrespective states, whether it's
the child protection cards orwhatever it is, and just make
sure that's in place.
Angela Connell-Richards (25:14):
Yeah, yeah, and some of the things
that we've identified that needsto be particularly under fit
and proper person is policerecord checks, as well as child
protection, depending on theindustry sector.
And one thing that I found veryinteresting is I know, know,
how are you going to adjust yourrisk management depending on
(25:34):
the learner cohort and how RTOsare going to implement this, and
I see this as a commonchallenge with RTOs is okay, yes
, we've got new legislation, buthow do we implement that?
And, in particular, if you'venever done risk management
before, what would be your toptips for what you need to do if
(25:59):
you've never done a riskmanagement register or policy
before?
Maciek Fibrich (26:04):
Look, I think and just before I jump into that
, I think what I also hopedoesn't happen is a lot of the
time in CRICOS you've got underthe National Code, standard 5,
you know, you've got all ofthese other requirements now
that you have to do if you wantto deliver to under 18 students,
and so a lot of CRICOSproviders will opt to avoid any
under 18 students from aninternational market.
(26:25):
So I also hope that thisdoesn't stop or discriminate, I
guess, from an age perspective,domestic RTOs saying, no, you've
got to be over 18 to study withus.
But look, to answer yourquestion, it starts with just
understanding what a riskmanagement approach is and
(26:46):
whether, again, whether you useAI or chat, gpt or anything else
to start to build that out foryou.
But primarily it's aboutlooking at the standards,
because it says you know whereyou offer to under 18, risks to
their safety and wellbeingassociated with the delivery are
identified and managed.
And then it says by havingregard to the training content,
(27:06):
mode of delivery and thenational principles for child
safe organization.
So firstly, start by identifyingthat.
Look at the content that you'redelivering.
Is it appropriate for under 18students?
Um is the the language of theof the learning material,
appropriate um, and and thenagain, if you're doing
face-to-face delivery, ensuringthat where there is a potential
(27:30):
risk identified, where you'vegot a mixture of under 18 and
over 18, that that is managedand that the trainer and
assessor actually understandthat.
And there is a process you knowwe do it in the construction
industry through safe workmethod statements, et cetera,
swims and so it's almost likedoing the same thing being able
(27:53):
to preempt your class to say,hey, in this class we're going
to have three under 18s, there'sa short course, but these are
the things that you need to beaware of.
Obviously, if there's any foullanguage or if there's any
inappropriate behaviour, thatthat's controlled and managed
accordingly.
Yeah, yeah, so it comes down tothe trainers as well as the
management from a top-downapproach, to implement those
(28:13):
changes accordingly through, aswe've spoken about continuous
improvement, professionaldevelopment and so forth.
Angela Connell-Richards (28:19):
Yeah, and that's what I was just about
to say.
I think it's going to be theprofessional development or team
training that they do withtheir team so that they
understand what they need to beaware of.
Maciek Fibrich (28:31):
Yeah, yeah definitely which one of them.
Initially, when reading thisgoes okay, let's do a PD session
on national principles ofchild-safe organisations.
What is that?
Let's look at that.
It's never been addressed inthe standards before, so let's
unpack that and then provideguidance to everyone around that
.
Angela Connell-Richards (28:49):
Yeah, yeah, and there are tools out
there to be able to do that.
Like, these national principleshave actually been around for a
while, but it's the first timeI've seen it in legislation for
RTOs Awesome.
Well, we've gone through a lottoday with risk management, so
(29:09):
thank you so much for joining ustoday on the RTO Superhero
Podcast.
It's been an enlighteningdiscussion about the new
standards and, in particular,looking at risk management, and
it is an area that we're bothvery keen on.
And a big thank you to Maycheckfor sharing your valuable
insights and expertise.
(29:31):
As we move forward, it's crucialfor RTOs to embrace these
changes and ensure we areproviding management of how
we're going to manage this inthe future and looking at all of
those compliance requirements,but essentially, the best
practices for sustainable RTOs.
So stay tuned for more episodeswhere we will continue to break
(29:53):
down each of the standards froma consultant's point of view
and our years of experience inthe training industry.
So until next time, keepstriving for excellence and I
look forward to catching up withyou again soon.
Stop, all right, okay.
Welcome to the RTO Superhero Podcast
with me, angela Connell-Richardsand my guest speaker, maychek,
who's here also helping me tobreak down these standards.
Well, it's finally here.
You had your head in the sandand you didn't know what was
happening on Friday.
Well, the new standards forRTOs 2025 have officially landed
(00:36):
.
After three years of waiting,drafting, consulting and
speculating, maycheck, can youbelieve we're actually talking
about the final version today?
Maciek Fibrich (00:45):
Final version legislated in there in place,
absolutely.
Angela Connell-Richards (00:50):
It's just crazy that it feels like so
long since we've been workingon this and I remember in 2019,
we were talking about the skillsreform so it's just been around
for so long, so we've been.
That's been 10 years since thelast change yes, and 10 years
(01:11):
yes, and about bloody time.
It's taken long enough.
So we're going to be breakingdown what we think is different
and what we think is justbasically what we had before,
maybe just some refinements onit.
But we've been dissecting allof the draft policies, the
(01:31):
practice guides, the draftstandards and all that sort of
stuff and then holding ourbreath, waiting for this to
finally happen.
Now we finally have our outcomestandards, compliance
requirements and credentialpolicy.
What's your initial take on it,maychek?
Maciek Fibrich (01:51):
Look, I think it's great that we finally have
something concrete that we canwork towards, because I think
everyone's sort of been lookingat developing, getting ready for
this July 1 start date.
But it's always been a littlebit nervous Is something going
to change?
Is something going to still be,you know, unknown?
So it's great that we've nowgot that clear guidance from
(02:13):
it's legislated, it's ready togo.
We can now work off a concretedocument and get ready for the
July 1 start date.
Angela Connell-Richards (02:21):
Yeah, and I think also having ASQA
confirmed that their transition,what they're going to be
transitioning starting from the1st of May, and I think that's
really important it means we canactually get down to business
now without having to worryabout a federal election or
anything else changing in oursector.
(02:41):
So I've already done a podcaston the new standards, but I
really wanted to hear your pointof view of these and from what
I've seen, is really qualityarea one and two not a lot of
changes.
Training and assessment ispretty much essentially the same
and trainers don't need toupgrade their qualification
(03:05):
anymore.
Maciek Fibrich (03:06):
What are your thoughts on that?
Look, finally, I think we'vegot some common sense approach
and you know it's going to upset, I think, a lot of TAE
providers who relied on, I guess, that upskilling and I've never
called it upskilling where yougo from a Cert IV to a Cert IV.
I've always sort of spruced thewhole concept.
If you're going to upgrade froma cert four, do a diploma and,
(03:29):
and you know, progress yourskill, and then you know you've
always got that whole uhfallback on diploma or higher
and never had to worry aboutupgrading anyway.
Um, but it's, it's that cultureof continuous improvement in
yourself that I think also needsto be emphasised.
So great that we don't need toupdate to a new Cert 4, at least
(03:49):
from 2010,.
But it's still, you know, onething that we really need to
make sure that with all of ourRTOs, is that we've got this
culture, that it's not just thatyou've got it and that's it,
that you do continue updatingyour skills, both from a
vocational perspective and atraining and assessment
perspective.
Angela Connell-Richards (04:08):
Yeah, and I think that's important for
everyone.
The amount of times and this isone of the things I really like
about the new standards isthey're now making a requirement
that everyone in the teamshould do vet professional
development, because the amountof times I've gone into an RTO
and the staff have no idea aboutthem Absolutely.
Maciek Fibrich (04:29):
You're so right.
And the concept.
Again, we spoke about it a fewlast month, I think.
Where it's that concept of, oh,that's the compliance
consultant or that's thecompliant manager's job?
That concept should never existif the whole of the
organisation understands whatthat culture of compliance is
about and understands thestandards.
Angela Connell-Richards (04:49):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
And I think, when it comes tounderstanding why we're doing
the different things that we dowithin an RTO and it's not like
the management making us do this, it is a requirement under the
legislation of what we need todo so I think that's really good
that they've uh making it thatall team uh should should be
(05:13):
undertaking and including theceo and directors, which uh
often uh get left sort of thinkno, no, I'll send everyone else
to that, I don't need to knowabout the legislation.
Maciek Fibrich (05:26):
Well, at the end of the day, the buck stops with
them.
So you know they do.
Whilst they might havedelegator authority and delegate
power, at the end of the day itstill is their responsibility.
They're the one signing off oneverything.
Angela Connell-Richards (05:37):
Yeah, yeah, totally, and they should
understand what theramifications are if you are
non-compliant, because they'rethe ones that are going to be
effective.
Yeah, yeah.
So when it comes to qualityarea two, vet student support, I
didn't see a lot of change,other than the First Nations.
They didn't emphasise themental health, so it's just more
(05:59):
holistic Thank.
God for that yeah.
Maciek Fibrich (06:01):
And I'm a huge advocate of mental health, don't
get me wrong, but the can ofworms that would open up in
terms of where do you draw theline was always going to be a
challenge.
Angela Connell-Richards (06:10):
Yeah, it's more of a holistic
wellbeing now.
So instead of focusing on sothat was a good thing that
dropped down, because I think ifwe're going to bring in mental
health, we need to do it slowly.
We need to look at overallwellbeing, so I think that's a
(06:33):
great way to start as well.
Okay, so then we get to QualityArea 3, which is Vet Workforce,
and there's been somesignificant changes in there
with regards to trainers andassessors and what are their
requirements, but also PD, butwe're just talking about one of
the really interesting ones isquality area for governance and
(06:57):
looking at risk management.
What are your thoughts aboutthe new risk management
requirements?
Maciek Fibrich (07:02):
Yeah.
So, as we were saying, you know, it's that pendulum swinging
back, isn't it?
We had this for many years.
We had our risk strategies andour risk matrix that we had to
do and that sort of went out 10years ago and here we are back,
and I don't think it's a badthing in any way whatsoever.
I think there's a lot of depthto these requirements under
(07:27):
standard 4.3.
And a lot of people, just likethe concept of not understanding
the term systematicself-assurance, will also
struggle with what riskmanagement is all about.
You know the difference betweena risk and, ultimately, a
hazard in that respect, andreally just trying to work out
how to implement that.
(07:47):
And so the main things thatI've seen there is again that a
lot of RTOs, like mostbusinesses, struggle with
financial management, and herewe've got an RTO must identify,
manage and review risks aroundfinancial position and
performance and cash flow, andso that's interesting.
And then we've got the conceptof systems for identifying and
(08:12):
disclosing apparent, real orapparent conflict of interest,
which makes that quiteinteresting.
Angela Connell-Richards (08:17):
And then also, I think this, I think
that's more to fit and properperson.
Maciek Fibrich (08:20):
Yeah, possibly, and also maybe around agents and
who's selling what.
And then what I think is a goodthing is that whole concept of
delivering to under 18s andthat's been very much driven
into these standards, about therisks to under 18 students,
which again has been spokenabout informally by some
(08:42):
auditors but never sort of putinto writing, even though the
legislation has always beenthere.
So these are all you know, Ithink, good, good practices,
moving forward yeah, I think soas well.
Angela Connell-Richards (08:54):
Um, so I've been around in the industry
for a long time as well and Iremember when we used to do risk
management under the old aqt wethink it was 2007.
I think it was in 2005 and 2007.
And then it was gone when wegot the legislation.
But I think it is an area wherea lot of RTOs it is a weakness,
(09:16):
where they're not looking atthe risks within their RTO and
how they're managing those risks.
I also found it veryinteresting the financial
position and financialperformance and I suppose that
comes down to RTOs who haven'tbeen financially viable and
running insolvent and then shutdown and then the students have
(09:40):
nowhere to go.
So I think that's good thatthey've got those in there.
I love risk management.
Coming from a WHS assessor andbackground in doing that sort of
stuff, I think I used to do alot of ergonomic assessments.
I think it's a really goodthing and I think it's going to
be positive for RTOs toimplement.
Maciek Fibrich (10:03):
Absolutely.
It's like the concept ofplanning and business planning.
The beautiful thing about riskmanagement is that it's designed
, it's not.
A lot of people may see thisagain as a similar to a TAS
document.
It's just a compliance document.
But if you change your approachand your thought process behind
(10:25):
it from being oh, it's just,you know it's for compliance
purposes to actually this makesgood business sense, to help
identify business risk, it'sactually really positive, you
know.
But you've got to change thatmindset away from compliance and
legislation to good businesspractice.
Angela Connell-Richards (10:41):
Yes, a holistic approach for your whole
RTO, because there's stillthere's a lot of businesses, not
just education sector, who arestill being affected by the
pandemic and also with what'sgoing on in America right now
and things like that.
So we do need to be managingthis much better within the RTO,
(11:04):
and that brings us tocontinuous improvement.
So continuous improvement issomething I never threw out.
I always had it as a prioritywithin our policies and
procedures and under the newrequirements, they've actually,
instead of being two littleclauses, it's now much more
expanded.
So it's stating that the RTOundertakes systematic monitoring
(11:26):
and evaluation of theorganisation to support quality
delivery and the continuousimprovement of services.
So when you hear that, what isyour thoughts around what an RTO
needs to have in place in orderto meet that requirement?
Maciek Fibrich (11:41):
Yeah.
So I think the key word thereis improvement of services as
well.
So support, quality deliveryand continuous improvement of
services.
So it's not just aboutcontinuously improving your
training products, it'severything, it's your service,
it's the support that youprovide students, potentially
includes your marketing and soforth.
(12:01):
And so when I look at theconcept of continuous
improvement, again, it's not aone time per year or one audit
per year.
It's about looking at how yourorganization incrementally,
continually, looks at what canwe do better with this.
And you know, as I've got on myyou know general profile, it's
(12:21):
like how do you challenge thestatus quo of what you're doing
to to make it better, as opposedto resting on what's there and
going oh, that's good enough,right, and I think we sometimes
get too comfortable in thatposition.
Angela Connell-Richards (12:36):
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
I always, and I think we havetalked about this before you
should have a culture ofcontinuous improvement
throughout your organisation,and I'm glad to see that this
has more depth to it than whatwe've had in the past, because
basically it was like if youwere non-compliant with any of
(12:58):
the standards, you werenon-compliant with 2.2, whereas
this is now more focused on okay, what do you need to have in
place?
So one of it is that you've gotto have mechanisms in place to
lawfully collect and analysedata, including any feedback
received from vet students,staff, industry, vet regulators,
state and territory trainingauthorities and employers,
(13:20):
current or former students.
So that is very much in linewith the new data security
requirements as well.
Maciek Fibrich (13:29):
Well, I was laughing at the word lawfully,
right.
That's interesting that theyput that in there, because it
sort of makes you wonder whatwas going on previously for them
to want to put that in.
Angela Connell-Richards (13:38):
Well, you know, people used to go to
gravestones and take their namesoff the gravestones and claim
government funding.
Maciek Fibrich (13:45):
Let's not go back to the vet fee help days,
that's fine.
But yeah, look, I think theconcept there of again, students
, staff, industry, regulatorsand authorities and employers of
current and former vet studentsI think that really encompasses
all stakeholders or a lot morestakeholders.
But again, I think a lot ofpeople.
(14:07):
Where they drop the ball withcontinuous improvement is a lot
of organizations collect data,whether it's through process and
necessity because the standardssay so, or actively go out
there.
But where they sort of notnecessarily fail but don't do
things well is they don't takethe data, then analyze it, work
(14:30):
out how it needs to be appliedacross the organization and then
start to implement thoseincremental changes.
And often we find that a lot ofRTOs will get all of this data,
be overwhelmed by the data, putit to the side and go oh,
that's just too hard basket, wewon't worry about it for now,
whereas it's really a matter offinding okay, how do we plan for
(14:51):
these changes?
What are the small things thatwe need to do along the way?
What's the highest risk that wecan identify at the moment?
Again, going back to our riskstrategy, focus on that as a
priority and then filter our waydown to the least highest risk.
Angela Connell-Richards (15:08):
Yeah, yeah, I remember the days of
walking into clients' premisesand there'd be a box of data
they've collected.
Maciek Fibrich (15:17):
What have you done with that?
What have you done?
Angela Connell-Richards (15:18):
with that.
Hey, what have you done withthat?
Oh, we've collected it.
The thing is, nowadays we'redoing it all electronically, so
there's no excuse really thatyou are not using that data,
because even just using chat gpt, you can run that data through
chat gpt and identify what therisks are or and what the
improvements you can make, youknow, based on your scenario.
Maciek Fibrich (15:39):
So, yeah, look, that's definitely, you know,
based on your scenario.
So, yeah, look, that'sdefinitely where you know one of
those things where I think ourindustry is copying a fair bit
of criticism at the moment withAI and students cheating and so
forth.
But if we park that and look atwhat AI can do for us in
business improvement terms, youknow, it's so much more than
(16:00):
just worrying about studentscheating.
It's actually, you know,focusing on how we can speed up
those improvement processes.
Angela Connell-Richards (16:07):
Yeah, and you know, ai is one of my
favourite subjects, but thefuture is AI, and what we when
we just on that subject.
When it comes to students usingit, you should be teaching them
how to use it in an ethicalmanner.
Correct, I?
Maciek Fibrich (16:26):
agree.
Angela Connell-Richards (16:27):
Because they will use it in the future.
Anyway, in the workplace, I useAI all day, every day, so it
should be part of your role.
Maciek Fibrich (16:36):
I think and I know we're digressing a little
bit and I don't really want tomake this about AI, but I think
you know people go oh, ai,plagiarism, like again, we had
AI.
We had plagiarism when we usedto open up the physical
Encyclopedia Britannica, right,when people used to copy it.
Then we had Google Wiki, youknow.
So, every step along the waywe've had these things.
(16:57):
All AI has done is simplifiedthe process Absolutely.
Step along the way we've hadthese things.
All AI has done is simplifiedthe process absolutely.
But again, if you use it as ateaching method and and
encourage students not to do itand and put in policies around,
if it's identified, you'll beasked to sit there and do it
written out or however youdecide to do it within your
organization, then there'simplications around that as
(17:19):
opposed to simply acceptingeverything that you've got.
Angela Connell-Richards (17:22):
So yeah , yeah, and tying that back into
the standards, that reallycomes under your risk management
as well, 100% yeah.
How are you going to managethat risk management?
Maciek Fibrich (17:35):
One thing I will say that and this came up in an
audit a week or so ago is andit was a valid point that the
auditor asked and in the currentstandards I think it's 8.5
maybe about legislation andinforming staff and students of
legislative changes.
Angela Connell-Richards (17:56):
Yeah.
So one of the questions.
The old standard is 5.4,.
Yeah.
Maciek Fibrich (18:02):
Yeah, so well, the current standards that are
still there at the moment.
Talks about informing studentsand staff of legislative changes
, and one of the questions thathe actually asked is how have
you informed your staff andstudents now about the impending
and now changes that are coming, changes that are coming, and
so I think that's one thing thatany of the listeners at the
(18:22):
moment that are running RTOsreally need to look at.
You know, either putting out amemo or a reminder to all their
current staff and students ofthese changes and, potentially,
what impact they might have,maybe an internal guide as to
how the organisation will bechanging, and so I think that's
also important to remember thatthis is a legislative change and
, as such, the organisation willbe changing, and so I think
that's also important toremember that this is a
legislative change and, as such,the organisation needs to be
(18:46):
informed, and internally, theyneed to be informed as well.
Angela Connell-Richards (18:49):
Yeah, yeah On that, I'm just thinking
more about risk management andfinancial viability.
So this is going to be an areawhere I think a lot of RTOs may
struggle, particularly if theyhaven't been through a financial
viability risk assessment.
Some have never, others mayhave.
Maciek Fibrich (19:11):
Some remember the good old days of the old
external auditing yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (19:16):
How do you think RTOs should identify,
manage and review risks relatedto financial position,
performance and cash flowwithout being a financial
advisor?
What are some of the thingsthat you recommend that they
should do?
Maciek Fibrich (19:31):
Yes, as the disclaimer goes, anything I say
is not to be used as financialinformation.
That's correct.
I'm not a financial planner, so, look, I think the most
important thing is within anybusiness, an RTO is just that.
It's a business right.
And so often we get too caughtup in our compliance practices,
(19:52):
our compliance processes and soforth, and as a CEO or as a
manager or as a board, dependingon what level you're at if
you're not reviewing yourfinances on a quarterly or a
monthly basis, then you'reprobably not running a proper
business right.
And so, whether it's having ameeting with your accountant on
(20:12):
a quarterly basis, looking atyour P&Ls, looking at your
balance sheets and looking athow your I guess your lead
indicators not just your KPIsare functioning, I think it's
really important to look at yourbusiness as a whole and then go
okay, what would happen if wehad a downturn?
And look at modeling, just likewe do with our training and
calendars and scheduling, whatwould happen now if we only had
(20:36):
10 people enroll in the nextmonth versus 20?
How would we deal with that?
And so I think part of our riskmanagement approach around that
financial position, financialperformance and cash flow is
really about the what-ifscenarios and how to manage
those within a flexible, I guess, delivery model.
(21:01):
And unfortunately, asqa has alittle bit to answer for here,
because ASQA, their timeframesof processing applications, et
cetera, greatly impact on someof the way that an RTO can
practice, whether it's removingfrom scope or adding to scope,
and the dynamic nature of abusiness sometimes is sometimes
(21:24):
negatively impacted by thedelays within ASQA.
So you know, there's not much wecan do about that, though, but
you as a business still need toaccount for that.
Angela Connell-Richards (21:32):
Yeah, and I think you should be
putting it into your riskmanagement assessment as
possible.
What are the possible scenarios?
And one of the things that I'vereally read into this as well,
and we're starting to see we'vebeen seeing audits in the last
six months is student to trainerand staff ratios.
So identifying what thoseratios are and so if you have a
(21:56):
student drop, what should thatbe?
If you have a student intake,then what should that be?
I found also very interestingis that conflict of interest, so
we fit in proper person andidentifying and disclosing real
or apparent conflicts ofinterest.
What do you think they may be?
Maciek Fibrich (22:18):
Oh look, it's hard to know and any time you
include apparent, it's open forinterpretation and I get scared
of those types of words, to behonest, because that really does
open up.
Oh well, you could have seenthat this is going to turn into
a conflict and really, I thinkin some respects, given that we
are educating the nextgeneration, in whichever
(22:41):
industry that you're in, thereis a level of expectation that
there is transparency, and Ithink the conflict of interest
scenario is there so that thereis transparency over whether you
know if you go get insurance orif you go get a loan.
There's that transparency ofcommissions that are being paid
and I think this is maybe whereit's leading towards, where you
(23:04):
know it's not under the countersort of transactions that are
encouraging enrolments or thingslike that.
Counter sort of transactionsthat are encouraging enrolments
or things like that, obviouslyafter the vet fee helps saga of
incentivising through laptopsand payments and so forth.
This is where I think all comesinto it to say, look, just be
(23:26):
transparent with how you operateand if there is a conflict of
interest, declare it it.
Angela Connell-Richards (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, and honesty is always the
best policy.
I always say, yeah, notdeclaring things and hiding
things.
Yeah, not the way to go.
We also touched on the under18s.
What are your thoughts aroundthat child protection?
Maciek Fibrich (23:46):
Yeah, look, I think there's great strength in
doing this.
Look, I think there's greatstrength in doing this,
especially around the tradesarea, where we do have 16,
17-year-olds that are studyingwith adults.
(24:10):
There's this often perception,depending on the industry that
you're in, that swearing andcarrying on can impact on
someone's experience and I thinkwe sometimes forget, as
educators, as RTOs, that if wedo have someone under 18, they
actually are under 18.
There's challenges that comewith that, because there's very
little literature post-secondaryschool, where someone is a
(24:30):
let's call them an independentyoung adult under the age of 18
about what rights andresponsibilities they have and
are allowed to do with let'scall it excursions or field
trips, et cetera, within RTO.
So I think there's a lot tounpack with that.
But, generally speaking, if youare dealing with anyone under
(24:53):
18, whether it's in a first aidcourse or in cookery or in a
trade, there is a level ofresponsibility that you take on
board and whatever yourprocesses are, it's, you know,
in each state.
It's important to look at yourrespective states, whether it's
the child protection cards orwhatever it is, and just make
sure that's in place.
Angela Connell-Richards (25:14):
Yeah, yeah, and some of the things
that we've identified that needsto be particularly under fit
and proper person is policerecord checks, as well as child
protection, depending on theindustry sector.
And one thing that I found veryinteresting is I know, know,
how are you going to adjust yourrisk management depending on
(25:34):
the learner cohort and how RTOsare going to implement this, and
I see this as a commonchallenge with RTOs is okay, yes
, we've got new legislation, buthow do we implement that?
And, in particular, if you'venever done risk management
before, what would be your toptips for what you need to do if
(25:59):
you've never done a riskmanagement register or policy
before?
Maciek Fibrich (26:04):
Look, I think and just before I jump into that
, I think what I also hopedoesn't happen is a lot of the
time in CRICOS you've got underthe National Code, standard 5,
you know, you've got all ofthese other requirements now
that you have to do if you wantto deliver to under 18 students,
and so a lot of CRICOSproviders will opt to avoid any
under 18 students from aninternational market.
(26:25):
So I also hope that thisdoesn't stop or discriminate, I
guess, from an age perspective,domestic RTOs saying, no, you've
got to be over 18 to study withus.
But look, to answer yourquestion, it starts with just
understanding what a riskmanagement approach is and
(26:46):
whether, again, whether you useAI or chat, gpt or anything else
to start to build that out foryou.
But primarily it's aboutlooking at the standards,
because it says you know whereyou offer to under 18, risks to
their safety and wellbeingassociated with the delivery are
identified and managed.
And then it says by havingregard to the training content,
(27:06):
mode of delivery and thenational principles for child
safe organization.
So firstly, start by identifyingthat.
Look at the content that you'redelivering.
Is it appropriate for under 18students?
Um is the the language of theof the learning material,
appropriate um, and and thenagain, if you're doing
face-to-face delivery, ensuringthat where there is a potential
(27:30):
risk identified, where you'vegot a mixture of under 18 and
over 18, that that is managedand that the trainer and
assessor actually understandthat.
And there is a process you knowwe do it in the construction
industry through safe workmethod statements, et cetera,
swims and so it's almost likedoing the same thing being able
(27:53):
to preempt your class to say,hey, in this class we're going
to have three under 18s, there'sa short course, but these are
the things that you need to beaware of.
Obviously, if there's any foullanguage or if there's any
inappropriate behaviour, thatthat's controlled and managed
accordingly.
Yeah, yeah, so it comes down tothe trainers as well as the
management from a top-downapproach, to implement those
(28:13):
changes accordingly through, aswe've spoken about continuous
improvement, professionaldevelopment and so forth.
Angela Connell-Richards (28:19):
Yeah, and that's what I was just about
to say.
I think it's going to be theprofessional development or team
training that they do withtheir team so that they
understand what they need to beaware of.
Maciek Fibrich (28:31):
Yeah, yeah definitely which one of them.
Initially, when reading thisgoes okay, let's do a PD session
on national principles ofchild-safe organisations.
What is that?
Let's look at that.
It's never been addressed inthe standards before, so let's
unpack that and then provideguidance to everyone around that
.
Angela Connell-Richards (28:49):
Yeah, yeah, and there are tools out
there to be able to do that.
Like, these national principleshave actually been around for a
while, but it's the first timeI've seen it in legislation for
RTOs Awesome.
Well, we've gone through a lottoday with risk management, so
(29:09):
thank you so much for joining ustoday on the RTO Superhero
Podcast.
It's been an enlighteningdiscussion about the new
standards and, in particular,looking at risk management, and
it is an area that we're bothvery keen on.
And a big thank you to Maycheckfor sharing your valuable
insights and expertise.
(29:31):
As we move forward, it's crucialfor RTOs to embrace these
changes and ensure we areproviding management of how
we're going to manage this inthe future and looking at all of
those compliance requirements,but essentially, the best
practices for sustainable RTOs.
So stay tuned for more episodeswhere we will continue to break
(29:53):
down each of the standards froma consultant's point of view
and our years of experience inthe training industry.
So until next time, keepstriving for excellence and I
look forward to catching up withyou again soon.
Stop, all right, okay.
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