October 21, 2025 • 27 mins
A glossy promise, a long wait, and an audit that collapsed in four and a half hours—this cautionary tale shows how fast things unravel when a consultant says “we’ll take care of everything.” We walk through a real CRICOS case where outdated policies and false confidence met the hard edge of the 2025 standards, and the regulator made it clear: capability sits with the CEO and PEO, not the consultant on the call.
We dig into the mindset shift that turns compliance from a paperwork chore into a leadership habit. That means reading your policies, sitting in on validation, understanding your training and assessment strategies, and being able to evidence implementation across student support, trainer competence, and records. We talk timelines that actually work, why 30-day miracles backfire, and how to build a weekly rhythm that creates audit-ready evidence without burning out your team.
Choosing help is the hinge point. We share a practical checklist for hiring the right consultant: recent audit experience under current standards, clear scope (initial registration, re-registration, or AAT), verifiable referees on training.gov.au, and a plan that upskills you rather than replaces your function. We call out red flags—blanket “we’ll do it all” offers, expensive retainers without education, and advice that downplays policy currency or implementation. Along the way, we broaden the lens beyond VET: your RTO is a business with WHS, HR, finance, privacy, and insurance obligations that demand the same disciplined approach.
If you want sustainable compliance, build capability, not dependency. Press play to learn the questions to ask, the evidence to prepare, and the habits that make audit rooms calm instead of combative. If this helped you rethink your approach, follow the show, leave a review, and share it with a colleague wh
Join host Angela Connell-Richards as she opens each episode with a burst of insight and inspiration. Discover why compliance is your launchpad to success, not a limitation.
Connect with fellow RTO professionals in our free Facebook groups: the RTO Community and RTO Job Board. Visit rtosuperhero.au/groups to join today.
Wrap up with gratitude and guidance. Subscribe, leave a review, and join our community as we continue supporting your compliance journey in vocational education.
Thank you for tuning in to the RTO Superhero Podcast!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
Welcome to the RTO superhero podcast with me,
Angela Connell Richards and myguest, Lauren Hollows.
Welcome, Lauren.
Hello.
Hello again.
Welcome back.
Lovely to have you online againtoday.
So today's topic is a hot topic.
Lauren jumped online on LinkedInrecently and uh had a bit of a
(00:28):
rant about hiring the right RTOconsultant.
And I was like, yeah, go for it,Lauren.
That's fantastic because I'msick of seeing this happening in
our industry.
So we thought we'd do this asour hot topic today.
So, Lauren, you worked withthis, you you got this recent
client that came to you who wasuh had been with a consultant.
(00:51):
Share share with the audiencewhat happened.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
So, look, this is not an unfamiliar story for
Angela and I'm sure some of thelisteners.
Um, but you know, person goes tosay, I want an RTO, they go and
look around, they find someonewith a Schmick website, and this
person says, No worries, we canset it all up for you.
We'll take care of everything,we'll do this, we'll do this.
Application goes in.
(01:16):
This person is applying for acrime cost, so they're obviously
paying for a rental for afacility.
Um and you know, six months goesdown the track, nine months goes
down the track.
Okay, all of a sudden, theyfinally get their call from
Aspar.
And now, in this particularcase, this consultant had
actually retired.
So they go, Oh, look, we'veretired now.
(01:39):
Uh, go and call this person.
They call this person, thisperson goes, that's fine, but
I'm gonna charge you a littlebit more as well.
So they're now$60,000 into anaudit.
Come the day of the audit, andthis consultant jumps on, had
advised them they didn't need a2025 compliance set of policies
(01:59):
to provide to them, and waslike, No, it's fine, as long as
we have a plan for how we'regonna update, you know,
everything's gonna be fine.
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
And was this post-1 July submission?
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Yes, uh, so it wasn't a post-1 July submission,
it was it was actually a twearly 2024, late 2023
submission, which is there's acouple of CRICOS ones sitting in
that bucket.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Yeah.
Um however, you need to.
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
However, all of those providers have had an
email which basically said we'llrefund your money, or we will we
expect you to applyadministering.
Oh, so they received an email.
So most I I know at least fouror five providers that have
gotten an email that submittedin the old standards and said,
Do you want to continue to moveforward?
(02:44):
If so, you'll need to be readyfor 2025.
They've all replied and said,Yep.
So these guys got their audit.
Four and a half hours was theaudit, at which point the
consultant was arguing with theAskla performance assessor,
saying, We don't need to have apolicy set compliance 2025, as
long as I have planned.
I've got plenty of RTOs thatdon't have their policies fully
(03:07):
up to date with 2025.
At which case I turned around tothe decline.
I was like, stop.
At that point, with all duerespect, you left.
Like, and he was like, Yes.
He said, at that point, the Askperformance assessor turned
around and said, I'm not goingto continue to argue with you.
You're not getting registrationwithout a compliance set of
policies to show how you'regoing to adhere to the 2025
(03:30):
standards.
And I think it's best that youleave this call and this
conversation now.
And just so that everyone knows,if you have that experience, you
are definitely getting your RTOregistration rejected, and you
have definitely chosen the wrongconsultant.
The wrong consultant, right?
So I turned around and did myspiel, and I was like, look,
(03:51):
this is kind of this is whereyou're sitting at.
Like I'm going to be honest withyou.
I said, at the end of the day,you have to do the hard yards.
If any, if you can go and talkto any consultant, if they tell
you they're going to doeverything for you, you're
you're you're gonna get intotrouble because ASCII does not
care about what the consultantknows.
(04:13):
Ask knows that there are plentyof us consultants out there that
know how to run an RTO.
However, they're not accreditingus to run the RTO, they're
accrediting you as your PEO oryour CEO.
You have to know how to run theRTO, you have to know your
policies, you have to know howyour assessment tools are
compliant, you have to know howyou're training assessment
strategies.
(04:33):
So I turn around and I was like,look, we can fix this.
We need an extension.
I was like, but you are going tobe working two to three to four
hours a week.
You're gonna watch the videos Itell you to watch, you're gonna
read the policies I tell you toread, you're gonna sit in on all
of the validations, you'regonna, you know, you're gonna
contextualize your train, we'regonna update all your training
and assessment strategies,you're gonna sit there with your
(04:54):
trainers so that you understandhow to create a proper,
compliant, you know, trainermatrix.
I said, We'll help you, we'llgive you the templates and we'll
explain to you why you need toinclude these things, but you
have to be willing to do thehard work.
Like, it's not me that's gonnabe running your RTO.
I am not the boss of your RTO.
(05:15):
You are the boss of your RTO,you have to run your RTO on a
day-to-day basis, and so youhave to be able to speak to it.
I said, So gave him my quote,you know, set him up, and he
came, he came back to me and hegoes, I said, No, I feel very
confident.
And he and I was like, Are yougonna put in hard work?
Like, I'm I am mean in someways, I am mean to my clients.
I'm sorry, they they all knowthis about me.
(05:36):
Um, but I'm like, but you haveto be working, like I'm you are
gonna do this work, you're gonnado all your homework, you're
gonna do all of this, you'regonna like you're gonna put in
all the hours with me and withmy team.
And he was like, Yes,absolutely, that's what I'm
gonna do.
Like, I'm fully committed tothis.
And like, he's like, This iswhat I wanted to hear.
I'm like, all right, let's let'slet's do this, you know.
Um but it's just frustratingbecause this, you know, this
(05:59):
guy, yes, it is on the clientsto pick the right person, but I
also understand, like I've beenthrough eight can I've been
through eight accountants in thelast five years.
Yeah, right.
And like I go and I research andI have a conversation with the
accountant beforehand, and theyseem to tell me all of the right
things.
And then all of a sudden, likewe get to a point, they're like,
Oh, and so now in order to doyour taxes, we're gonna need da
(06:21):
da da da da da da.
I'm like, you've given me like aweek and a half to where I'm
like, why were we why do we notput this process in place?
We have zero.
Why did we not put that processin place at the beginning of the
year?
Why did we not do this?
And they're like, Yeah, I'm justgonna need that.
Um, if you want us to processthis, and this I'm like, if I
with like my head on, cannotchoose a good consultant in the
(06:44):
accounting space, yeah.
I have I have grace for peoplewho go into RTO world and think
they're working with aconsultant, then the cult
consultant sounds like they knowwhat they're doing.
But we do need to like do abetter job of educating people
on the signs and signals thatyou may be working with a with a
(07:07):
consultant's that that's gonnaget you into trouble because it
is heartbreaking.
It's heartbreaking to have tosay to someone, I know you've
spent 60, 70, 80, 90,$100,000,and that was all for nothing.
Yeah, like there's nothing therethat I can use.
I can't use those tools, I can'tuse those policies because you
(07:28):
you ask was literally just goneand told you that they're all
wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
Yeah, and they're already they're not even to the
new standards or anythingeither.
I I get frustrated when uh andand we get it all the time where
people come to us and say, uh, Ijust want you to do everything.
Uh and the thing is peoplearen't need to understand we're
not being audited, you are beingaudited.
(07:53):
Like when you go to audit, itAsk's expectation is that you're
going to understand thepolicies, the procedures, the
documents, the processes, thesystems, everything.
Um we can't, we can't, we're notthe matrix.
We can't just stick something inthe back of your knock and
download it.
You need to actually do the hardyards.
(08:14):
If you're serious about settingup an RTO or managing an RTO,
you really need to be seriousabout learning as much as you
can about the system.
Um, and I just don't understandthese consultants who say, Oh,
don't worry, we'll do everythingfor you.
I was like, Well, if you're areyou also going to run the RTO
(08:35):
for them?
I I I just think they're settingthat up for failure.
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
That particular line is really like, and everyone
listening, that if if yourconsultant says to you, you
don't need to know that, I willtake care of all of that, we
will do everything, any of thosethree lines, run like the wind.
Okay, that person is going tosteal your money.
Run like the effing wind.
(09:03):
Like you are, there is no ASCORauditor that is going to turn
around and go, it's okay thatyou, as the CEO, PEO of your
organization, don't know aboutthe works.
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, the as a CEO, any seniormanagement role, you need to
understand the compliancerequirements and your systems in
your organization.
And you can't be like for thelisteners, it's seriously, it's
like are you serious about doingwhat you're doing?
Like, even for initialregistration, we can hold your
(09:37):
hand, we can teach you, we canuh provide the documentation,
but in the world, you've got tobe committed to learning as much
as you can about the compliancerequirements because in the
world it's your head that's onthe chopping board.
If if there's anynon-compliances as initial or
re-registration, you're the onethat's gonna cop it, not the
(09:58):
consultant.
So you should really be settingyourself up uh for it.
So I'm gonna ask you a question.
How can that mindset of settingup an RTO for failure when it
comes to compliance?
How like really, what do youthink people should be doing?
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
So, I mean, look, anytime you go into any
business, I I expect there'sgonna be a learning curve,
right?
Um, I've been in business, II've had several businesses now.
To this day, I continue to gethit with learning curves as to
like, oh, okay, all right, cool.
So this is how we've got to dothis.
(10:40):
And whether it's in terms offinance or HR or you know,
change in legislation or oryeah, like new WHS updates.
Like, you know, this year we'vegone around to all of our staff
and we've gone, okay, here's ournew working from home policy,
and we've got to have you dothis checklist because, like,
you know, if you if you'reworking from home and you fall
(11:00):
and hit your head, that's on me.
Like, that's my fault as yourlike if you're on the job when
you're doing that, I'm youremployer.
Like, so I've got to have aprocess in place for checking
these sorts of things.
And so I think that anyone goinginto any sort of business, like
if you are gonna run your ownbusiness, you need to go into it
(11:22):
going, I I don't know what Idon't know, and I am going to
need to find people to supportme through that process.
But part of finding people whowill support me through that
process is not just looking forpeople who will support me and
do things for me, but it'slooking for people who will
upskill me to ask the rightquestions.
(11:43):
And, you know, so like infinance or in accounting, you
know, my mom is a bookkeeper,and so she was like, okay, so
when you're looking for abookkeeper, I want you to ask
these questions.
And when you're looking for anaccountant, I want you to ask
these questions.
And you know, when we werelooking at um, you know, when
like one of the I I got alearning curve early, early in
(12:07):
the piece where I didn't realizethat there was different work
cover in every state.
So like I went out and got my,you know, got my insurance,
thought I was being a good gal,and then got contacted by one of
the states, and they're like,You don't have work time with
us.
I'm gonna work on a certificateof sender three.
And they were like, we have anindividual for our state.
I'm like, what?
I I didn't I didn't know, I'msorry.
(12:28):
And they were like, that's notan excuse.
I'm like, yeah, I kind of saythat to my clients all the time.
So you're right.
Yep, okay, cop the fine, youknow, pre, you know, you know,
repay back the fact that I'vehad a staff member working in
that state for nine months andapparently didn't realize that I
(12:48):
needed a work cover certificate.
So I've now got four differentwork cover certificates for four
different freaking states, whichI think is stupid, but that's
another rant.
Um, but it's it is, it's kind ofgoing into the process with the
idea of in this particular area,I need to ask these questions,
(13:09):
you know, and I'm still sort ofmapping out for myself as a
broad business, like anybusiness, what are the areas
that I really need to cover?
Like my brother was talking tome the other day, he's like, I'm
gonna need like a qualitypolicy, like his and his
organization is huge.
Um, and but it's you know, it'sall brand new and stuff like
(13:30):
that.
And I was like, Well, you know,you need to cover this, you need
to cover this, and you need tocover this, and you need to
cover this.
And he was like, My brother's asales guy, he's very, you know,
like he's the guy that'll go outand sell a million dollars in a
day.
Um, but when you start talkingabout policies and procedures,
the eyes glaze over the thing,go, this is not my bag.
(13:50):
Um so you know, like I'mstarting, I'm slowly kind of
getting that framework together.
And ISO is a good um sort of abase for that, I think.
But it really is having thatbusiness mindset.
And you and I are quite big onthis.
We when you run an RTO, you needto understand RTO, you need to
understand vet, and that'scomplex as it is.
(14:12):
What is more complex is runningan actual business.
Yes.
So, you know, insurances andlegislation and safety and
finance and HR and you know, allof this sort of stuff, and
having a framework of going, whoare the people around me that I
can I can go, okay, I'm gonnawork with you.
(14:34):
And your consultant is kind ofyour mentor, and that's I kind
of think that's the way that youwant to look at it is you want
to have somebody who is gonnamentor you to build you up to
kind of go, these are like youknow, when when you're hiring an
admin, these are the questionsthat you should ask.
These are the skills that we'regonna be looking for when you're
hiring a trainer, these are thequestions you want to ask, these
are the skills that we're gonnabe looking for, you know.
(14:56):
Because if you ask, if you talkto a trainer, you know, the
questions that I want you to askare things like, okay, so talk
to me about, you know, a timewhen you've had a student crack
it in your class.
How have you managed thatsituation?
You know, how do you how do yougo when you're working on site
with an employer?
How do you manage thatrelationship of working with the
employer while keeping thestudent happy and everything
(15:17):
like that?
You know, how are you gonnaapproach the issue of like
there's something in thetraining package that you have
to teach?
It's out of date, you know, howdo you approach that?
Like, I love that question fortrainers because so often I'll
see trainers go, right, guys,we're gonna have to talk about
this now.
No, it's completely, you know,irrelevant, but the training
(15:37):
point all right the RTR requiresthat we teach this.
And I'm like, thank you.
Like, thank you very much.
You can you can move on.
Um, yeah.
So it's it's it's kind ofgetting yourself into that that
headset of like who is gonna bemy mentor to build my skills so
that I can run this, so that Ican make my own decisions, as
(15:58):
opposed to who's gonna be theguru who, you know, tells me all
of the answers.
You know, like that that's thekind of like mindset shift that
I think you need to have whenyou're looking for a consultant
in any industry.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
So give me a quick checklist.
What should uh listeners who areonline now, whether it's for
initial registration orre-registration, what should
they be looking for when they golooking for a consultant?
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Recent audit experience.
Talk about recent auditexperience.
When was the last time you werein an audit?
What's your relationship likewith the regulator?
Um if you're going into re-regon the back foot, there's a
difference in the type ofconsultant that I think you
necessarily need.
If you're going to a consultantwith an intent to cancel, I'm
(16:52):
gonna go to AAT, that's atotally different ball game to
someone, I want to, I'm I'mgonna do a registration, I want
to have a long-term relationshipwith you for the next three to
four years.
Um, or I'm coming, you know, I'ma year out into uh in a year
we'll be doing re-registration.
Let's get everything sortedbefore we go into it.
(17:12):
Um, there are AAT consultants inour industry who very much focus
on AAT.
They have very differentrelationships with the
regulator, totallyunderstandably so.
Um, but it's because they that'stheir specialization.
So, like, you know, Peter Ducas,Judith Bowler, um, you know,
(17:34):
Rayleigh Bartlett, all AATspecialists have a very
different relationship andapproach to managing an AAT
project than you and I would.
In hey, I want to start up anRTO, let's, you know, um, let's
have a relationship for the nextthree to four years so that you
know you can build my skills,lay the lay a solid foundation
(17:57):
with me, and then keep checkingin with me to make sure that you
know um I'm paddling in theright direction, right?
SPEAKER_00 (18:05):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
And when we're working with different, that's a
really different relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
It is a very big and you really need to know exactly
what you need.
Yeah.
And we're when we're workingwith re-registration, ideally we
want a minimum of six months toprepare them.
So it's um it's a process ofthat six months where we're
training them on, or inparticular now, all the new
(18:32):
legislation, as well as ourpolicies, procedures, and
documents, so that they can talkto them when they go to audit
and actually demonstrate thatthey've implemented them.
So that's the other thing.
Um, having to do quick fixes orthe tribunal, I've done them,
but it's not my ideal client.
My ideal client is one that'sprepared.
(18:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
And I mean, like I know with this particular client
that we had, we turned aroundand we said, Look, we'll we'll
help you write the letter to theregulator.
If they come back and say it'sgot to be done in 30 days, we
just turned around and said, Wejust can't, we just can't, we
won't vote.
Yeah, because I can't upskillyou in that time.
I don't have the team to supportit.
Um it's gonna look like a rushjob anyway.
(19:15):
So, you know, we won't do it.
Um, so yeah, but for if you'regoing in for a registration or a
re-registration and it and it ismore of a proactive sort of a
process, what's your experiencewith the regulator?
What's your relationship likewith the regulator?
Um, what is gonna be myinvolvement and my team's
involvement in this process?
(19:36):
Um, and what is the, you know,sort of what's the three, six
month, twelve-month outlook ofwhat our relationship looks
like?
Um, you know, where do youideally want to end up with?
And and again, red flags wouldbe we do it all.
Red flags would be, um, youknow, we want to put you onto a
$20,000 a month plan, we can getrid of your compliance person,
(19:58):
we'll put our compliance personin there.
Um, you know, um somebody comingin and going, you know, oh well
that you're fucked, you know,you should just shut down right
now.
Um I've I've I've had RTOs cometo me with that before.
Um, so you know, I think any ofthose sorts of signs where it's
like we'll totally take this offyour plate, um, as opposed to
(20:22):
we'll work with you and we'llupskill you, if there's no
educative component to theservices that are being offered,
I would take that as a red flag.
100%.
Yeah.
And and and go and ask them fora list of referrals.
Um, please don't just go bywhat's on their website.
Go and ask them for a list ofreferrals that they can talk to.
(20:44):
You should be able to see acouple of RTOs that are either
have been recently registered,that have recently achieved
their registration or theirre-registration.
Um, and preferably, you know, anew a new registration or a
CRICOS re-reg should be shouldbe sitting there.
Ideally, a couple within thelast year is what I would look
(21:05):
for, because it means they'veactually gotten people through.
Um, as opposed to like, youknow, if you're going on to and
they're giving you a referencelist and you're jumping on there
and going, well, hold on asecond, you only got two years
registration, you know, or twoyears re-registration as opposed
to your seven years, or well,you've got re-registration, but
(21:25):
you've got a condition on yourregistration.
Why do you have a condition onyour registration?
Like, and that's you know, thattakes a little bit of knowledge,
but it's it's there in TGA.
So, like, get a list ofreferences, go and check out
what's on there on TGA, and youknow, speak to the CEO or speak
(21:46):
to their referee.
Again, make sure that thatreferee that for that
organization is actually someonelisted on TGA.
Um, but do that little bit ofdue diligence because it re
ASCAR's gonna actually ask youhow you've arrived at using your
consultant as your consultantand what process you followed.
Like in the last three auditsI've had, ASCA made a specific
(22:10):
point of asking the client, howdid you decide what consultant
you would work with?
You know, um, what checks didyou do?
Did you check herqualifications?
Now I, you know, I was very,very fortunate.
The auditors were very lovely tome and they were very um, you
know, they were like, okay,cool, you know, and we got our
registration and everything likethat.
So, you know, that's that'sgreat.
(22:32):
Um, but be prepared to answerthat question and put some
thought into the process, notjust like, well, my brother Joe
said that they were really good.
Or like, you know, they had areally pretty website.
Like, you know, go and take alook.
You know, good out there.
They put out, you know, likethey put out articles, they put
(22:52):
out, you know, um podcasts likewe do.
They, you know, they put lots ofcontent out there generally.
Um, you know, like, you know,Claire Field does heaps of
articles and and and newsarticles, and you know, you and
I do podcasts and um, you know,so some of them run some of them
(23:12):
run webinars or they runworkshops or you know, industry
events.
So look for people who aregiving a little bit back to
industry as well isn't I is itis another good way to kind of
go, hey, look, these people, youknow, know what they're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
Yeah, so I'm gonna wrap that up in a little
checklist.
So, from what I've heard fromLauren, um, and and also my
advice as well.
So, if you were to go for achecklist with how to hire the
right consultant, it would belooking at their background,
their experience, how manyaudits have they been to, what
audits have they been to in thelast uh year, getting referees
(23:52):
uh from previous clients, um,what experience and knowledge do
they have in the industry?
Have they um have they got otherthings that they uh distribute,
like videos, or you I knowyou've got you're very active on
your YouTube channel, uhpodcasts, um uh webinars, things
(24:12):
like that.
Um, but most importantly, youneed to identify is that
consultant gonna be able to workwith you and and what are your
expectations?
And never ever like never go toa consultant thinking that they
they can do everything for youbecause honestly, I don't want
(24:33):
to set you up for failure.
Uh Lauren doesn't want to setyou up for failure.
We want you to get through yourAskel audit and be compliant.
So the process we have is foryou to set you up for success,
to ensure that you haveeverything you need in order to
get to that audit and speak tothe policies and procedures,
(24:53):
understand the system,understand the compliance
requirements on how to implementit, and and take responsibility,
accountability, which is one ofthe requirements under the new
standards now.
You've got to be accountable.
And for those consultants thatare out there that offer to do
everything, stop it.
Really, really, you need to noyou need to put a system in
(25:19):
place.
You're really setting up uhpeople for failure, um, taking
their money when you should be,you know, if you really want to
provide a good service to ourindustry sector, we need to
teach them.
We need to teach people how tofit, how to do it themselves,
and then fly, be free.
(25:40):
Um so yeah, well, thank you verymuch, Lauren.
That was very informative, and Ilove it when you get passionate
about a topic, and that's why Ithought I'd bring up this topic
today, because uh I know that umit you're we're we're both on
the same page when it comes touh poor clients that are out
(26:03):
there who've hired the wrongpeople and and led them down the
wrong path.
And honestly, we just want tomake sure that you you're
getting the right advice.
So, yeah.
Thank you very much, uh Lauren,for joining me again today.
Uh, in our next podcast, we'regoing to be going through the
changes in training packages.
There are a number of newchanges that are uh coming uh
(26:27):
again, and um Lauren's gonnashare with me uh some techniques
and tools and things that youneed to know about uh these
changes.
Thank you again, Lauren.
See you next time.
Okay, awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
I'm trying.
Welcome to the RTO superhero podcast with me,
Angela Connell Richards and myguest, Lauren Hollows.
Welcome, Lauren.
Hello.
Hello again.
Welcome back.
Lovely to have you online againtoday.
So today's topic is a hot topic.
Lauren jumped online on LinkedInrecently and uh had a bit of a
(00:28):
rant about hiring the right RTOconsultant.
And I was like, yeah, go for it,Lauren.
That's fantastic because I'msick of seeing this happening in
our industry.
So we thought we'd do this asour hot topic today.
So, Lauren, you worked withthis, you you got this recent
client that came to you who wasuh had been with a consultant.
(00:51):
Share share with the audiencewhat happened.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
So, look, this is not an unfamiliar story for
Angela and I'm sure some of thelisteners.
Um, but you know, person goes tosay, I want an RTO, they go and
look around, they find someonewith a Schmick website, and this
person says, No worries, we canset it all up for you.
We'll take care of everything,we'll do this, we'll do this.
Application goes in.
(01:16):
This person is applying for acrime cost, so they're obviously
paying for a rental for afacility.
Um and you know, six months goesdown the track, nine months goes
down the track.
Okay, all of a sudden, theyfinally get their call from
Aspar.
And now, in this particularcase, this consultant had
actually retired.
So they go, Oh, look, we'veretired now.
(01:39):
Uh, go and call this person.
They call this person, thisperson goes, that's fine, but
I'm gonna charge you a littlebit more as well.
So they're now$60,000 into anaudit.
Come the day of the audit, andthis consultant jumps on, had
advised them they didn't need a2025 compliance set of policies
(01:59):
to provide to them, and waslike, No, it's fine, as long as
we have a plan for how we'regonna update, you know,
everything's gonna be fine.
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
And was this post-1 July submission?
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Yes, uh, so it wasn't a post-1 July submission,
it was it was actually a twearly 2024, late 2023
submission, which is there's acouple of CRICOS ones sitting in
that bucket.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Yeah.
Um however, you need to.
SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
However, all of those providers have had an
email which basically said we'llrefund your money, or we will we
expect you to applyadministering.
Oh, so they received an email.
So most I I know at least fouror five providers that have
gotten an email that submittedin the old standards and said,
Do you want to continue to moveforward?
(02:44):
If so, you'll need to be readyfor 2025.
They've all replied and said,Yep.
So these guys got their audit.
Four and a half hours was theaudit, at which point the
consultant was arguing with theAskla performance assessor,
saying, We don't need to have apolicy set compliance 2025, as
long as I have planned.
I've got plenty of RTOs thatdon't have their policies fully
(03:07):
up to date with 2025.
At which case I turned around tothe decline.
I was like, stop.
At that point, with all duerespect, you left.
Like, and he was like, Yes.
He said, at that point, the Askperformance assessor turned
around and said, I'm not goingto continue to argue with you.
You're not getting registrationwithout a compliance set of
policies to show how you'regoing to adhere to the 2025
(03:30):
standards.
And I think it's best that youleave this call and this
conversation now.
And just so that everyone knows,if you have that experience, you
are definitely getting your RTOregistration rejected, and you
have definitely chosen the wrongconsultant.
The wrong consultant, right?
So I turned around and did myspiel, and I was like, look,
(03:51):
this is kind of this is whereyou're sitting at.
Like I'm going to be honest withyou.
I said, at the end of the day,you have to do the hard yards.
If any, if you can go and talkto any consultant, if they tell
you they're going to doeverything for you, you're
you're you're gonna get intotrouble because ASCII does not
care about what the consultantknows.
(04:13):
Ask knows that there are plentyof us consultants out there that
know how to run an RTO.
However, they're not accreditingus to run the RTO, they're
accrediting you as your PEO oryour CEO.
You have to know how to run theRTO, you have to know your
policies, you have to know howyour assessment tools are
compliant, you have to know howyou're training assessment
strategies.
(04:33):
So I turn around and I was like,look, we can fix this.
We need an extension.
I was like, but you are going tobe working two to three to four
hours a week.
You're gonna watch the videos Itell you to watch, you're gonna
read the policies I tell you toread, you're gonna sit in on all
of the validations, you'regonna, you know, you're gonna
contextualize your train, we'regonna update all your training
and assessment strategies,you're gonna sit there with your
(04:54):
trainers so that you understandhow to create a proper,
compliant, you know, trainermatrix.
I said, We'll help you, we'llgive you the templates and we'll
explain to you why you need toinclude these things, but you
have to be willing to do thehard work.
Like, it's not me that's gonnabe running your RTO.
I am not the boss of your RTO.
(05:15):
You are the boss of your RTO,you have to run your RTO on a
day-to-day basis, and so youhave to be able to speak to it.
I said, So gave him my quote,you know, set him up, and he
came, he came back to me and hegoes, I said, No, I feel very
confident.
And he and I was like, Are yougonna put in hard work?
Like, I'm I am mean in someways, I am mean to my clients.
I'm sorry, they they all knowthis about me.
(05:36):
Um, but I'm like, but you haveto be working, like I'm you are
gonna do this work, you're gonnado all your homework, you're
gonna do all of this, you'regonna like you're gonna put in
all the hours with me and withmy team.
And he was like, Yes,absolutely, that's what I'm
gonna do.
Like, I'm fully committed tothis.
And like, he's like, This iswhat I wanted to hear.
I'm like, all right, let's let'slet's do this, you know.
Um but it's just frustratingbecause this, you know, this
(05:59):
guy, yes, it is on the clientsto pick the right person, but I
also understand, like I've beenthrough eight can I've been
through eight accountants in thelast five years.
Yeah, right.
And like I go and I research andI have a conversation with the
accountant beforehand, and theyseem to tell me all of the right
things.
And then all of a sudden, likewe get to a point, they're like,
Oh, and so now in order to doyour taxes, we're gonna need da
(06:21):
da da da da da da.
I'm like, you've given me like aweek and a half to where I'm
like, why were we why do we notput this process in place?
We have zero.
Why did we not put that processin place at the beginning of the
year?
Why did we not do this?
And they're like, Yeah, I'm justgonna need that.
Um, if you want us to processthis, and this I'm like, if I
with like my head on, cannotchoose a good consultant in the
(06:44):
accounting space, yeah.
I have I have grace for peoplewho go into RTO world and think
they're working with aconsultant, then the cult
consultant sounds like they knowwhat they're doing.
But we do need to like do abetter job of educating people
on the signs and signals thatyou may be working with a with a
(07:07):
consultant's that that's gonnaget you into trouble because it
is heartbreaking.
It's heartbreaking to have tosay to someone, I know you've
spent 60, 70, 80, 90,$100,000,and that was all for nothing.
Yeah, like there's nothing therethat I can use.
I can't use those tools, I can'tuse those policies because you
(07:28):
you ask was literally just goneand told you that they're all
wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
Yeah, and they're already they're not even to the
new standards or anythingeither.
I I get frustrated when uh andand we get it all the time where
people come to us and say, uh, Ijust want you to do everything.
Uh and the thing is peoplearen't need to understand we're
not being audited, you are beingaudited.
(07:53):
Like when you go to audit, itAsk's expectation is that you're
going to understand thepolicies, the procedures, the
documents, the processes, thesystems, everything.
Um we can't, we can't, we're notthe matrix.
We can't just stick something inthe back of your knock and
download it.
You need to actually do the hardyards.
(08:14):
If you're serious about settingup an RTO or managing an RTO,
you really need to be seriousabout learning as much as you
can about the system.
Um, and I just don't understandthese consultants who say, Oh,
don't worry, we'll do everythingfor you.
I was like, Well, if you're areyou also going to run the RTO
(08:35):
for them?
I I I just think they're settingthat up for failure.
SPEAKER_01 (08:40):
That particular line is really like, and everyone
listening, that if if yourconsultant says to you, you
don't need to know that, I willtake care of all of that, we
will do everything, any of thosethree lines, run like the wind.
Okay, that person is going tosteal your money.
Run like the effing wind.
(09:03):
Like you are, there is no ASCORauditor that is going to turn
around and go, it's okay thatyou, as the CEO, PEO of your
organization, don't know aboutthe works.
SPEAKER_00 (09:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, the as a CEO, any seniormanagement role, you need to
understand the compliancerequirements and your systems in
your organization.
And you can't be like for thelisteners, it's seriously, it's
like are you serious about doingwhat you're doing?
Like, even for initialregistration, we can hold your
(09:37):
hand, we can teach you, we canuh provide the documentation,
but in the world, you've got tobe committed to learning as much
as you can about the compliancerequirements because in the
world it's your head that's onthe chopping board.
If if there's anynon-compliances as initial or
re-registration, you're the onethat's gonna cop it, not the
(09:58):
consultant.
So you should really be settingyourself up uh for it.
So I'm gonna ask you a question.
How can that mindset of settingup an RTO for failure when it
comes to compliance?
How like really, what do youthink people should be doing?
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
So, I mean, look, anytime you go into any
business, I I expect there'sgonna be a learning curve,
right?
Um, I've been in business, II've had several businesses now.
To this day, I continue to gethit with learning curves as to
like, oh, okay, all right, cool.
So this is how we've got to dothis.
(10:40):
And whether it's in terms offinance or HR or you know,
change in legislation or oryeah, like new WHS updates.
Like, you know, this year we'vegone around to all of our staff
and we've gone, okay, here's ournew working from home policy,
and we've got to have you dothis checklist because, like,
you know, if you if you'reworking from home and you fall
(11:00):
and hit your head, that's on me.
Like, that's my fault as yourlike if you're on the job when
you're doing that, I'm youremployer.
Like, so I've got to have aprocess in place for checking
these sorts of things.
And so I think that anyone goinginto any sort of business, like
if you are gonna run your ownbusiness, you need to go into it
(11:22):
going, I I don't know what Idon't know, and I am going to
need to find people to supportme through that process.
But part of finding people whowill support me through that
process is not just looking forpeople who will support me and
do things for me, but it'slooking for people who will
upskill me to ask the rightquestions.
(11:43):
And, you know, so like infinance or in accounting, you
know, my mom is a bookkeeper,and so she was like, okay, so
when you're looking for abookkeeper, I want you to ask
these questions.
And when you're looking for anaccountant, I want you to ask
these questions.
And you know, when we werelooking at um, you know, when
like one of the I I got alearning curve early, early in
(12:07):
the piece where I didn't realizethat there was different work
cover in every state.
So like I went out and got my,you know, got my insurance,
thought I was being a good gal,and then got contacted by one of
the states, and they're like,You don't have work time with
us.
I'm gonna work on a certificateof sender three.
And they were like, we have anindividual for our state.
I'm like, what?
I I didn't I didn't know, I'msorry.
(12:28):
And they were like, that's notan excuse.
I'm like, yeah, I kind of saythat to my clients all the time.
So you're right.
Yep, okay, cop the fine, youknow, pre, you know, you know,
repay back the fact that I'vehad a staff member working in
that state for nine months andapparently didn't realize that I
(12:48):
needed a work cover certificate.
So I've now got four differentwork cover certificates for four
different freaking states, whichI think is stupid, but that's
another rant.
Um, but it's it is, it's kind ofgoing into the process with the
idea of in this particular area,I need to ask these questions,
(13:09):
you know, and I'm still sort ofmapping out for myself as a
broad business, like anybusiness, what are the areas
that I really need to cover?
Like my brother was talking tome the other day, he's like, I'm
gonna need like a qualitypolicy, like his and his
organization is huge.
Um, and but it's you know, it'sall brand new and stuff like
(13:30):
that.
And I was like, Well, you know,you need to cover this, you need
to cover this, and you need tocover this, and you need to
cover this.
And he was like, My brother's asales guy, he's very, you know,
like he's the guy that'll go outand sell a million dollars in a
day.
Um, but when you start talkingabout policies and procedures,
the eyes glaze over the thing,go, this is not my bag.
(13:50):
Um so you know, like I'mstarting, I'm slowly kind of
getting that framework together.
And ISO is a good um sort of abase for that, I think.
But it really is having thatbusiness mindset.
And you and I are quite big onthis.
We when you run an RTO, you needto understand RTO, you need to
understand vet, and that'scomplex as it is.
(14:12):
What is more complex is runningan actual business.
Yes.
So, you know, insurances andlegislation and safety and
finance and HR and you know, allof this sort of stuff, and
having a framework of going, whoare the people around me that I
can I can go, okay, I'm gonnawork with you.
(14:34):
And your consultant is kind ofyour mentor, and that's I kind
of think that's the way that youwant to look at it is you want
to have somebody who is gonnamentor you to build you up to
kind of go, these are like youknow, when when you're hiring an
admin, these are the questionsthat you should ask.
These are the skills that we'regonna be looking for when you're
hiring a trainer, these are thequestions you want to ask, these
are the skills that we're gonnabe looking for, you know.
(14:56):
Because if you ask, if you talkto a trainer, you know, the
questions that I want you to askare things like, okay, so talk
to me about, you know, a timewhen you've had a student crack
it in your class.
How have you managed thatsituation?
You know, how do you how do yougo when you're working on site
with an employer?
How do you manage thatrelationship of working with the
employer while keeping thestudent happy and everything
(15:17):
like that?
You know, how are you gonnaapproach the issue of like
there's something in thetraining package that you have
to teach?
It's out of date, you know, howdo you approach that?
Like, I love that question fortrainers because so often I'll
see trainers go, right, guys,we're gonna have to talk about
this now.
No, it's completely, you know,irrelevant, but the training
(15:37):
point all right the RTR requiresthat we teach this.
And I'm like, thank you.
Like, thank you very much.
You can you can move on.
Um, yeah.
So it's it's it's kind ofgetting yourself into that that
headset of like who is gonna bemy mentor to build my skills so
that I can run this, so that Ican make my own decisions, as
(15:58):
opposed to who's gonna be theguru who, you know, tells me all
of the answers.
You know, like that that's thekind of like mindset shift that
I think you need to have whenyou're looking for a consultant
in any industry.
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
So give me a quick checklist.
What should uh listeners who areonline now, whether it's for
initial registration orre-registration, what should
they be looking for when they golooking for a consultant?
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Recent audit experience.
Talk about recent auditexperience.
When was the last time you werein an audit?
What's your relationship likewith the regulator?
Um if you're going into re-regon the back foot, there's a
difference in the type ofconsultant that I think you
necessarily need.
If you're going to a consultantwith an intent to cancel, I'm
(16:52):
gonna go to AAT, that's atotally different ball game to
someone, I want to, I'm I'mgonna do a registration, I want
to have a long-term relationshipwith you for the next three to
four years.
Um, or I'm coming, you know, I'ma year out into uh in a year
we'll be doing re-registration.
Let's get everything sortedbefore we go into it.
(17:12):
Um, there are AAT consultants inour industry who very much focus
on AAT.
They have very differentrelationships with the
regulator, totallyunderstandably so.
Um, but it's because they that'stheir specialization.
So, like, you know, Peter Ducas,Judith Bowler, um, you know,
(17:34):
Rayleigh Bartlett, all AATspecialists have a very
different relationship andapproach to managing an AAT
project than you and I would.
In hey, I want to start up anRTO, let's, you know, um, let's
have a relationship for the nextthree to four years so that you
know you can build my skills,lay the lay a solid foundation
(17:57):
with me, and then keep checkingin with me to make sure that you
know um I'm paddling in theright direction, right?
SPEAKER_00 (18:05):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
And when we're working with different, that's a
really different relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
It is a very big and you really need to know exactly
what you need.
Yeah.
And we're when we're workingwith re-registration, ideally we
want a minimum of six months toprepare them.
So it's um it's a process ofthat six months where we're
training them on, or inparticular now, all the new
(18:32):
legislation, as well as ourpolicies, procedures, and
documents, so that they can talkto them when they go to audit
and actually demonstrate thatthey've implemented them.
So that's the other thing.
Um, having to do quick fixes orthe tribunal, I've done them,
but it's not my ideal client.
My ideal client is one that'sprepared.
(18:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
And I mean, like I know with this particular client
that we had, we turned aroundand we said, Look, we'll we'll
help you write the letter to theregulator.
If they come back and say it'sgot to be done in 30 days, we
just turned around and said, Wejust can't, we just can't, we
won't vote.
Yeah, because I can't upskillyou in that time.
I don't have the team to supportit.
Um it's gonna look like a rushjob anyway.
(19:15):
So, you know, we won't do it.
Um, so yeah, but for if you'regoing in for a registration or a
re-registration and it and it ismore of a proactive sort of a
process, what's your experiencewith the regulator?
What's your relationship likewith the regulator?
Um, what is gonna be myinvolvement and my team's
involvement in this process?
(19:36):
Um, and what is the, you know,sort of what's the three, six
month, twelve-month outlook ofwhat our relationship looks
like?
Um, you know, where do youideally want to end up with?
And and again, red flags wouldbe we do it all.
Red flags would be, um, youknow, we want to put you onto a
$20,000 a month plan, we can getrid of your compliance person,
(19:58):
we'll put our compliance personin there.
Um, you know, um somebody comingin and going, you know, oh well
that you're fucked, you know,you should just shut down right
now.
Um I've I've I've had RTOs cometo me with that before.
Um, so you know, I think any ofthose sorts of signs where it's
like we'll totally take this offyour plate, um, as opposed to
(20:22):
we'll work with you and we'llupskill you, if there's no
educative component to theservices that are being offered,
I would take that as a red flag.
100%.
Yeah.
And and and go and ask them fora list of referrals.
Um, please don't just go bywhat's on their website.
Go and ask them for a list ofreferrals that they can talk to.
(20:44):
You should be able to see acouple of RTOs that are either
have been recently registered,that have recently achieved
their registration or theirre-registration.
Um, and preferably, you know, anew a new registration or a
CRICOS re-reg should be shouldbe sitting there.
Ideally, a couple within thelast year is what I would look
(21:05):
for, because it means they'veactually gotten people through.
Um, as opposed to like, youknow, if you're going on to and
they're giving you a referencelist and you're jumping on there
and going, well, hold on asecond, you only got two years
registration, you know, or twoyears re-registration as opposed
to your seven years, or well,you've got re-registration, but
(21:25):
you've got a condition on yourregistration.
Why do you have a condition onyour registration?
Like, and that's you know, thattakes a little bit of knowledge,
but it's it's there in TGA.
So, like, get a list ofreferences, go and check out
what's on there on TGA, and youknow, speak to the CEO or speak
(21:46):
to their referee.
Again, make sure that thatreferee that for that
organization is actually someonelisted on TGA.
Um, but do that little bit ofdue diligence because it re
ASCAR's gonna actually ask youhow you've arrived at using your
consultant as your consultantand what process you followed.
Like in the last three auditsI've had, ASCA made a specific
(22:10):
point of asking the client, howdid you decide what consultant
you would work with?
You know, um, what checks didyou do?
Did you check herqualifications?
Now I, you know, I was very,very fortunate.
The auditors were very lovely tome and they were very um, you
know, they were like, okay,cool, you know, and we got our
registration and everything likethat.
So, you know, that's that'sgreat.
(22:32):
Um, but be prepared to answerthat question and put some
thought into the process, notjust like, well, my brother Joe
said that they were really good.
Or like, you know, they had areally pretty website.
Like, you know, go and take alook.
You know, good out there.
They put out, you know, likethey put out articles, they put
(22:52):
out, you know, um podcasts likewe do.
They, you know, they put lots ofcontent out there generally.
Um, you know, like, you know,Claire Field does heaps of
articles and and and newsarticles, and you know, you and
I do podcasts and um, you know,so some of them run some of them
(23:12):
run webinars or they runworkshops or you know, industry
events.
So look for people who aregiving a little bit back to
industry as well isn't I is itis another good way to kind of
go, hey, look, these people, youknow, know what they're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
Yeah, so I'm gonna wrap that up in a little
checklist.
So, from what I've heard fromLauren, um, and and also my
advice as well.
So, if you were to go for achecklist with how to hire the
right consultant, it would belooking at their background,
their experience, how manyaudits have they been to, what
audits have they been to in thelast uh year, getting referees
(23:52):
uh from previous clients, um,what experience and knowledge do
they have in the industry?
Have they um have they got otherthings that they uh distribute,
like videos, or you I knowyou've got you're very active on
your YouTube channel, uhpodcasts, um uh webinars, things
(24:12):
like that.
Um, but most importantly, youneed to identify is that
consultant gonna be able to workwith you and and what are your
expectations?
And never ever like never go toa consultant thinking that they
they can do everything for youbecause honestly, I don't want
(24:33):
to set you up for failure.
Uh Lauren doesn't want to setyou up for failure.
We want you to get through yourAskel audit and be compliant.
So the process we have is foryou to set you up for success,
to ensure that you haveeverything you need in order to
get to that audit and speak tothe policies and procedures,
(24:53):
understand the system,understand the compliance
requirements on how to implementit, and and take responsibility,
accountability, which is one ofthe requirements under the new
standards now.
You've got to be accountable.
And for those consultants thatare out there that offer to do
everything, stop it.
Really, really, you need to noyou need to put a system in
(25:19):
place.
You're really setting up uhpeople for failure, um, taking
their money when you should be,you know, if you really want to
provide a good service to ourindustry sector, we need to
teach them.
We need to teach people how tofit, how to do it themselves,
and then fly, be free.
(25:40):
Um so yeah, well, thank you verymuch, Lauren.
That was very informative, and Ilove it when you get passionate
about a topic, and that's why Ithought I'd bring up this topic
today, because uh I know that umit you're we're we're both on
the same page when it comes touh poor clients that are out
(26:03):
there who've hired the wrongpeople and and led them down the
wrong path.
And honestly, we just want tomake sure that you you're
getting the right advice.
So, yeah.
Thank you very much, uh Lauren,for joining me again today.
Uh, in our next podcast, we'regoing to be going through the
changes in training packages.
There are a number of newchanges that are uh coming uh
(26:27):
again, and um Lauren's gonnashare with me uh some techniques
and tools and things that youneed to know about uh these
changes.
Thank you again, Lauren.
See you next time.
Okay, awesome.
SPEAKER_01 (26:45):
I'm trying.
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