VET Talks: Future-Proof Your RTO - Embracing the 2025 Standards with Confidence - RTO Superhero 🎙️ Empowering RTOs to Thrive!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi everyone, welcome to the Vet Talks Future Proof
your RTO session today.
This session is the first ineSkills Vet Talks series where
we're going to be unpacking allthings vet and discussing a
myriad of vet topics withindustry experts over the next

(00:26):
few months.
In this session, we're going toexplore critical considerations
in preparing for the newstandards so you can embrace
these changes with confidence.
To thank you for your time,we're going to provide you with
a certificate of attendance asevidence of your professional
development today and to ensurethat you have something
practical to take away, angelafrom Vervacity, who's with us

(00:49):
right now, has been super kindto throw in a free 2025
Standards Readiness Checklist tohelp you prepare, or help you
in your preparations for July 1.
So we're going to share thatdownload link for the checklist
at the end of the session, sohang around for that.

(01:11):
If you have any questions,please add them to the chat, and
Will, our Executive PerformanceOfficer, who's also here with
us today Hi, will will becollecting and collating your
questions for a question andanswer session later on in this
session.
And finally, we've shared alink to the practice guides for

(01:34):
the new standards recentlyreleased by ASQA and that
download link, or that link tothose practice guides is in the
chat panel, so feel free toclick on that link if you
haven't already checked outAsqua's practice guides.
There's lots of practical tipsand information and those two
that are going to help youprepare and get ready for the

(01:55):
standards on the 1st of July.
So before we kick off, my nameis Scott Rogers.
I am CEO at eSkilled.
A little bit about myself I'vebeen in the vet sector for about
15 years and had extensiveexperience across as CEO of

(02:17):
three different R here speakingin my capacity as CEO of
eSkilled RTO Software, and I'llhand you over to Angela to tell
you a little bit about herselfand Angela from Vivacity.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Thank you, scott.
Hi, so my name is AngelaConnell Richards.
I'm the CEO and Founder ofVivacity Coaching and Consulting
and we're now in our 16th yearhelping registered training
organisations to get compliance,save time and save money.
I've been in the trainingindustry for over 30 years, so a
bit longer than you, scott, andI've owned and operated three

(02:57):
of my own RTOs, but I've workedin the capacity as a trainer and
assessor delivering cert two todiploma in business, capacity
as a trainer and assessordelivering cert 2 to diploma in
business, as well as trainingcompliance operations manager,
ceo.
So I've worked in a variety ofdifferent roles within rtos and
for the last 16 years we've beenhelping rtos with their

(03:20):
compliance, as well as cry costproviders, and in the last
couple of years we've also beenhelping people to set up as a
group training organisation soGTO.
So we've got extensiveexperience around that area and
we've got about 15 people on ourteam to help you out with all
of that.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Awesome, thanks, angela.
So we're going to kick off nowand I just want to thank Angela
for coming here today andbringing her expertise to help
us out with some of thesequestions and help us prepare
for the standards.
Angela, can you let us knowwhat you think is the biggest
mindset shift, I guess, for RTOsthat need to make preparations

(04:05):
for the new standards?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Thanks, scott, and I'd just like to say it's been a
pleasure to be able to join youon delivering this webinar as
well.
So, when it comes to mindsetwith the new standards, there's
been a lot of people who we'restill talking to, people who
don't understand that this comesin on the 1st of July.
We're not far away from the 1stof July, so I think a lot of

(04:32):
people are waiting.
They're waiting to see whathappens if they get an audit or
what's going to change.
What we've already noticed thisyear as consultants in the
industry is ASQA are alreadyauditing against the new
requirements, even though theydon't officially have any tools.
They actually don't have anaudit checklist.

(04:54):
They don't have aself-assessment checklist
against the new standards yet weknow this because we've got a
couple of initial registrationswe're trying to submit.
We can't submit them right nowbecause there's no document and
ASQA is not ready for it.
So, even though ASQA is notready, we need to be ready, and
one of the important things thatI've seen when it comes to the

(05:18):
new standards is we need to havea culture of compliance
throughout our RTO.
We need to have a culture ofcompliance throughout our RTO,
and that culture should includea major part, which is the
biggest difference in thesestandards is risk management,
continuous improvement andaccountability within your
leadership team.
So I think that would be in anutshell what I would say is the

(05:43):
biggest shift.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Awesome.
Thanks for that.
And so let's jump in and unpackthings a little bit Before we
kick off.
I wanted to just, I guess, takea bit of a look backwards at
the current sort of status ofaffairs in compliance and VET,
and in preparations for thesession, I was looking back

(06:05):
through some of ASQA's auditreports and just looking at how
RTOs are tracking in terms ofperformance assessments, audits,
whatever you want to call them,and what does compliance look
like currently.
And when I looked at the 2023reports, I found some pretty
shocking stats.

(06:26):
So, of the 379 performanceassessments in 23 to 24, 60% of
the RTOs were non-compliant.
Of those 60,.
Of those 229 RTOs that werenon-compliant, 134 managed to
get back to compliance.
Rtos that were non-compliant134 managed to get back to

(06:48):
compliance, but a shocking 25%of that 379 RTOs audited
basically didn't make it through.
They were either closed orfaced serious regulatory action.
So I found that pretty shocking.
And when I looked at ASQA'sfirst half of year report for
this year, the stats haveactually got worse.

(07:11):
So 175 performance assessmentsinstead of 60% non-compliance
across RTOs.
80% of non-compliant RTOs werenon-compliant at audit or on a
performance assessment and ofthose 38%, there were 38%
closures.
So, if anything, things havegot worse, and Angela and I were

(07:38):
talking about this earlier andI think Angela had some insights
to share there on why thingsmay have got a bit more
challenging in the last sixmonths.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, my thoughts on it.
We are currently in an economicenvironment that is not so
buoyant.
There's a downturn ingovernment funding.
There's also a big switch overwith the national government
wanting to provide freeeducation through TAFE, so

(08:11):
that's put a lot of pressure onRTOs trying to get more clients
or more students and then alsotrying to balance that
compliance side.
So managing that balancebetween compliance and business
and how do you ensure thatyou've still got students in the
door but whilst alsomaintaining your compliance and
I think that's one of the majorissues is we're so busy trying

(08:34):
to get new students thatcompliance, unfortunately, is
not being a priority.
And I've also seen so far thisyear I was looking at some stats
as well 80 RTOs have withdrawntheir registration so far this
year.
So there's been a number ofRTOs who have felt the pressure

(08:56):
and decided that they, inparticular with the new
standards, don't want to gothrough all the work of updating
to the new standards whenthey're already struggling.
But I've got good news there.
There is there is some massivechanges in this, in the
standards, but there's also alot that are stayed the same.

(09:16):
The main focus is that riskmanagement, and we're going to
be talking about that more today.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
I think you also mentioned that you'd noted that
ASQA seems to be already doingperformance assessments against
the current standards, althoughthe framework's not, you know,
currently recognised.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
We're already experiencing that.
In particular, any applicationsthat were submitted even prior
to 1 May, they're asking forfurther evidence now.
So if it's initial registrationor an addition to scope or
re-registration, they're nowasking for further evidence.

(09:58):
It was a bit like they'd losteverything.
So we'd submitted everything onAsquanet and like they'd lost
all that information becausethey were asking for the same
information again.
So, fortunately, we had all ourfiles ready and were able to
provide all of those documents.
But, yes, we certainly areseeing some changes, and the

(10:18):
other one that I'd mentionedearlier was assessment.
Validation was not a focus ataudit at all, but this year we
have found there's been a switchback to ensuring that RTOs are
validating their assessmenttools.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Okay, awesome.
So, look, I think those statssort of speak for themselves in
making it clear you know therisk environment's pretty, you
know it's serious from theperspective of you know the risk
environment's pretty, you knowit's serious from the
perspective of you know, as RTOs, we need to make sure that
we're paying attention, becauseI think those previous stats had

(10:57):
some really clear areas thatRTOs struggle with.
We've decided to structure thissession around those areas
specifically, because obviouslywe could spend days talking
about the standards and thechanges and deep diving, because
we only have an hour.
We're going to look at threeareas within the standards and
particularly commonnon-compliances, and then,

(11:20):
obviously, what things andconsiderations to look at in
preparation for those standardsand ensuring that you don't fall
into the same traps that otherRTOs seem to be.
So those quality areas arequality area one, three and four
, and so we're going to kick offwith trainer and assessor
competence.
It's the number one area ofnon-compliance for RTOs.

(11:45):
Still to this day, rtos seem toreally struggle with staying on
top of all the requirementsthere.
So, angela, can you talk usthrough, obviously, some of the
considerations that we need tolook at around training and
assessor competency inpreparation for the standards?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah, yeah for sure.
We've found quite often when wego to audit with clients that
trainers and assessors are oftenthe highest non-compliance area
, and that's been for many, manyyears.
And the main issue is thatmapping so mapping the trainer

(12:28):
and assessor skills andknowledge against the units of
competencies that they aredelivering, and that includes
their currency within theworkplace, within the industry,
professional development as wellas maintaining their VET skills
, as well as maintaining theirvet skills as well.
So there's not a lot that haschanged with regards to trainers

(12:51):
and assessors, other than it'sjust been clarified a bit more
around vet workforce and howthey fall within the vet
workforce and what are therequirements, and basically
they've relaxed a bit aroundsupervision, so having trainers
and assessors working undersupervision.
So these are trainers that donot currently hold the cert for

(13:15):
in training and assessment, butthey can work under supervision
and they've relaxed thoserequirements within these, the
new standards, and the mainreason why that they've done
that is because we saw a lot oftrainers leave the industry
because they didn't want toupdate their qualifications, and
then we also found that it wasvery hard to get new trainers

(13:36):
and assessors in because wedidn't have a transition model,
we didn't have a process forensuring that we're able to
bring someone in under amentorship sort of guide.
So they're the main changesthat have happened.
They've now relaxed thequalifications so the trainer
and assessor now can just holdthe cert for in training and

(13:59):
assessment, being the 40116.
Now the great thing about thisis they've changed the focus
that the trainer and assessorhas to update their
qualification every time a newqualification comes out.
It is now they've got the CertIV in training and assessment.
They don't need to update theirqualification.
However, they need todemonstrate that they are

(14:23):
undertaking professionaldevelopment as well as industry
professional development, andthat needs to be mapped within
the trainer's matrix.
So we need to have all of thatinformation mapped in there, and
a professional development planis going to be the most
important part.
So that's what comes under.
The new standards is how are youmapping the trainer's and

(14:46):
assessor's skills and knowledgeagainst the unit of competencies
that they are delivering,whether it's a direct match to
the units that they hold ortheir relevant industry
experience?
And the other great area isworking under supervision.
Now, with that, if you aregoing to have trainers and
assessors working undersupervision, you need to have a

(15:07):
policy and process for howyou're going to monitor those
trainers and assessors.
So trainers and assessors whodo not currently hold the
qualification in training andassessment, and if you do engage
a trainer and assessor whodoesn't hold that qual, that
they and if you do engage atrainer and assessor who doesn't

(15:28):
hold that qual, that they arecommitted to enrolling into and
completing the Cert IV andtraining assessment within a
two-year period.
So that's a part of the process.
If you're going to berecruiting new trainers and
assessors and they don't holdthe qual, they need to have a
willingness to be able tocomplete the Cert IV in training

(15:49):
and assessment and thatwillingness to map their current
skills and knowledge againstthe unit of competencies.
That's the massive differencethat I've seen.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
One of the things I noted as well is that RTOs need
to have or whoever's you knowapproving the evidence that's
uploaded to a trainer matrixneeds to ensure they have a
process for validating thatevidence as well Correct and
keeping evidence and that'sgoing to be part of your risk

(16:20):
management?

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, so under the governance quality area,
it's that risk management.
So how are you managing therisks of all of your trainers
and assessors, so ensuring thatyou've got relevant and current
industry skills and knowledge?
Yep.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
So how does, like there's a lot to manage, like an
RTO that has you, you know, 20trainers, uh, you know, across
multiple industries?
Uh, how does an rto manage thatmany trainers with that much
evidence, uh, where every singleunit that they hold has to have
professional development,industry currency and

(17:03):
credentials mapped against it?
What, what, what are therecommendations, not only for
collecting and collating that,but how do they ensure that they
stay on top of it?
Because I think, you know,every RTO sets out with good
intentions.
I think a lot of RTOs have atrainer matrix spreadsheet.
You know it's pretty standardin most organisations but still,
you know, year on year on yearon year, 60% to 80% of RTOs are

(17:27):
failing in that area.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, my recommendation and it also falls
under the VET workforcerequirements under the new
standards is an annualperformance review and part of
that annual performance reviewwith your and it should be all
staff, because now the newstandards actually require all

(17:49):
of your staff within your RTO tohave VET professional
development and it's where youare updating.
So, in particular, withtrainers and assessors.
They're updating their resume,they're updating any
qualifications or VETprofessional development or
industry professionaldevelopment and in a central
register, and that could bethrough your student management

(18:13):
system or a compliancemanagement system or, if you
want to go old school, within aspreadsheet.
The good thing about an onlinesystem is you're able to upload
those documents as well so thatyou have that evidence there.
But it should be like an annualthing that you are doing with
all of your trainers andassessors to ensure that they

(18:33):
are meeting the requirements.
As an RTO, it's yourresponsibility to ensure that
your trainers and assessors dohave that currency and do have
updated trainers matrices thatinclude all of their
professional development.
So it's the most simple way Ican go is with that annual

(18:53):
performance review, but also youcould have a system where the
trainer can log in and uploadall of their PD as they go and
have it as a reminder.
It might be a monthly reminder.
Have you done any PD in thelast month?
If so, can you provide us someevidence, a certificate, a

(19:15):
receipt for that PD that youcompleted?
And the biggest part is thereflection on the PD that
they've completed.
So it's not just here's myreceipt, here's my certificate,
it is what did I learn and howam I going to apply that within
my practices?

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, cool, yeah, and I think, like if you've got a
capable system that can remindyou of you know, currency
expiring or currency evidenceagainst currency expiring, that
can send emails or tasks,anything, any system that you
can implement that is proactiverather than reactive.

(19:54):
I think is is really importantbecause you don't want to get to
the point where your Trainersalready currency has already run
out when you're telling them toget back out into industry and
get you know, get current again.
You want to be on the frontfoot for that um to ensure you
don't enter into that um pointof um non-compliance.
Uh, cool, okay, thanks, angela,that was really insightful.

(20:16):
Um, and jumping across now tothe second biggest area of
non-compliance, which isassessment practice um, crazy,
it's training and assessment.
You think we'd be good atassessment, but still it's.
You know, rtos really struggle,particularly in the area of
assessing skills and using thecorrect practice.

(20:37):
Have you got any tips you know,or understanding in terms of
how RTOs can avoid, you know,ongoing non-compliances in the
area of assessment?

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah for sure.
So the main change that I'veseen when it comes to training
and assessment and theassessment practices which is
Division 2 under Quality, area 1, is the testing of your
assessment tools.
So they've added that withinthe clauses that you are testing
those.

(21:10):
Now that could be another namefor validation, but the way.
My recommendation is yourtrainers and assessors should be
testing the tool by completingthe tool themselves, so that
they get a better understandingof how the assessment, how they
can deliver the training to meetthe assessment.

(21:32):
By completing the assessmentthemselves, they're going to
have a good understanding ofwhat are the requirements within
that assessment tool and beable to better prepare their
students.
Now, whilst you're testing thattool, you should be really
looking at is it valid?
Is it reliable?
So looking at the rules ofevidence and principles

(21:52):
assessment, but it's also reallyidentifying is this suitable
for your learner cohort?
Does it meet the learner cohortneeds?
Is it easy to understand?
Is it easy to read?
Is there clear instructions forthe student?
Are there clear instructionsfor the assessor?
So if you were to get a newassessor join your team, would

(22:13):
they be able to read thatassessment tool and easily
follow the steps in there in howto conduct that assessment.
So it is as I said, there's nota lot that has changed within
this standard, but it has been aconstant frustration in many,
many audits that I've seenthroughout my whole lifetime as
a consultant, as an RTO, wherebya lot of the non-compliances

(22:38):
are around assessment tools,which then trigger
non-compliances within yourtraining and assessment strategy
and then can also triggernon-compliances when it comes to
trainers and assessors.
So we need to get thoseassessment tools right from the
very beginning and validation isthe best way to do that.
But that testing side, I thinkit is very much getting your

(22:59):
trainers and assessors tocomplete those assessment tools
so that they get a much deeperunderstanding of how to apply
those.
Now the other area, as Imentioned earlier, is what we
were noticing in the last coupleof years, by this year, was
there was a move away fromauditors ASQA auditors looking

(23:21):
into assessment validation.
But we've now seen this yearthere's been a big shift back to
the auditors looking at whetheryou have conducted assessment
validation and the evidence thatsupports that.
In particular, what changes didyou make post assessment
validation?
What was the?

(23:42):
And then very much so bringingin that risk management is how
have you minimised risk ofnon-compliance and incorrectly
assessing a student as competentwhen you haven't got sufficient
evidence to demonstrate thatthey are actually competent.
So once again, that comes backto testing the tool, but

(24:07):
validating the tool against theunit of competencies and the
assessment criteria.
Now we have another change thatis still on the horizon, that
hasn't hit the shores yet, andthat's the whole Australian
qualifications framework whichis going to change.
We're going to be moving awayfrom a qualification basis that

(24:27):
we are now to a level basis.
So instead of having acertificate one, two, three,
four in set fields, we'll havelevels and those levels will be
more like micro-credentialing.
So where you're looking at acluster of units or a full skill
set, where you're clusteringthose units to meet in industry

(24:48):
needs, and that's where wereally need to be validating
assessment tools at a unit levelto really identify how is it
not only meeting therequirements of the training
product but, more importantly,the industry sector and your
learner cohort.
They're the areas that areoften the non-compliant areas.

(25:09):
They haven't been validatedagainst the user, so the
students and the industry, andhow is it applicable to the
industry?
So they're the major changesthat I've seen and that testing
of the tools.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, and I think a critical factor when you know if
your RTO has limited resources,the standards make it really
clear that you need to focus onhigh-risk areas first in terms
of validating your assessmenttools.
So things like if you've gotcourses with high volume of

(25:45):
enrolments, obviously thosecourses are higher risk.
If there's issues with thoseassessment tools, any, any units
or qualifications where you'vegot poor student outcomes, and
also any obviously industrycritical high risk
qualifications, things likeearly early years learning, aged

(26:06):
care and obviously a lot of theindustries which have safety
risks or hazards related to them.
So, bringing it all back togovernance because we're going
to keep talking about governancefrom here on in, aren't we,
angela?
Your risk management strategyneeds to identify those units

(26:27):
and qualifications within yourscope and ensure that they are
top of your list in terms ofvalidation of your assessment
tools, to ensure that you'retaking a risk management
approach to governance withinyour RTO and particularly in the
area of assessment practice.
And then, obviously, yeah,making sure you maintain that

(26:49):
validation schedule, which ispretty critical in terms of
ensuring 50% of your productstraining products are validated
in the first three years.
Some people aren't aware, just apoint of note.
A training product, like, forinstance, a qualification to
assess.
Sorry, validate thatqualification.

(27:10):
You only need to validate twounits.
There's a misconception thatyou have to validate the entire
qualification.
You only need to validate twounits within that qualification
to have met the requirementsunder the standards for having
validated that product.
The only exception to that.

(27:30):
And, by the way of you, youlook like you're freaking out
Angela no, I disagree with that,sorry.
I've actually I've actuallyvalidated this with a square.
That's why I'm mentioning it.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
I can share it with you.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
I've got it in writing.
So the only exception that theymade to that was in a high-risk
qualification, where it may beexpected that you validate a
greater percentage of the unitswithin that qualification.
So, yeah, I've definitelyvalidated that, because I had
the question myself.
Really, do I have to validateeverything on scope scope

(28:08):
because that's huge if you'vegot a massive scope.
So that's an interesting pointthat I only recently learnt, so
I thought I'd share that withyou.
So let's talk about governance,because to me, governance is
the number one biggest changewithin the standards, and

(28:28):
obviously this is part of thebig shift towards self-assurance
and putting the onus back onexecutive management of the RTO
to ensure that they've gotadequate governance policies,
procedures and systems andprocesses in place.
Angela, what are some of thechanges in governance that

(28:50):
you've seen in the standards?

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Okay, so this is the biggest area.
There's been some massivechanges when it comes to
governance.
We were talking about thisearlier.
As I said, I've been in thetraining industry for over 30
years, so I've experienced aroller coaster ride of changes
when it comes to the trainingsector, and what I've seen with

(29:16):
the new standards is there'svery much a shift back towards
the old standards that we havethe framework, that we have the
training framework that we usedto have Prior to when we moved
over to a national regulator.
So when we were understate-based regulator, we had

(29:36):
one of the requirements wasHaving a continuous improvement
register and a risk register.
Now, we never took away as partof our Documentation our suite
of documentation.
We never took away as part ofour documentation our suite of
documentation.
We never took away thecontinuous improvement, because
we identified that as a corecomponent of managing your
ongoing compliance and we keptthat under standard 2.2.

(29:58):
But now, with the new standards, it's very much focused on that
risk management what, how, whattype of risk management systems
do you have in place and howare you managing those risks?
And when it comes to leadershipand accountability, under the

(30:19):
new standards it is who isaccountable for the compliance
requirements, not just thecompliance across the RTO.
We've actually changed all ofour documentation.
So in the footer of everysingle document that we provide
our clients, it has anaccountable person.
So, whether that's the trainerand assessor, the CEO, the

(30:42):
compliance manager, themarketing manager, we have
adapted an accountability rolewithin for each document, but
also for each area, and thenthat maps over to our risk
register.
So we have a risk register andin there it would be who is

(31:03):
accountable for this.
So accountable is meaning thatit's within their position
description of what they areaccountable for when it comes to
the standards, but also they'reaccountable if something goes
wrong.
So if they are, for example, ifyou're the marketing manager,
you need to comply with therequirements under information,

(31:24):
so under quality area one andtwo.
Quality area two, which is theinformation that you're
providing, but quality area oneis making sure that you are
aligning your marketing towhat's included within your
training and assessment strategy.
So that gives you an example oftwo quality areas that the
marketing manager needs to beresponsible for when it comes to

(31:48):
marketing your materials andensuring that it complies with
the requirements of the NRT logoand the AQF logo as well.
So that's just a.
I've given you a sort of asnapshot of one area that's not
trainer and assessor based, soit's really looking at, okay,
your leadership team, who isaccountable for what, and then

(32:08):
what are their requirements whenit comes to the compliance
requirements, and that shouldsit within the position
description of that role.
We've rewritten all of ourposition descriptions.
We've got over 30 positiondescriptions now because we've
got a lot of RTOs with differentsize and scopes of operations
and within that we've identifieddifferent clauses that would be

(32:32):
relevant for those differentroles.
And that's what I wouldrecommend everybody do within
your position descriptions.
It should include in there whatare the relevant clauses that
this role is accountable for.
If the role is a trainingcompliance officer and their
role is data management, thenthat should come under a vet

(32:55):
miss reporting and also underquality area four with your
record keeping.
So how are they maintaining therecord keeping?
So you should be mapping whatclauses they are responsible for
within the positiondescriptions.
The other thing that we've donea major update to is mapping it

(33:15):
all to the award for thepost-secondary, which comes
under the vet sector award, andmaking sure that the positions
are compliant against that awardas well as the contracts are
compliant against that award,and then I was just having a
look at some other things.
So there's a few things thatyou'll need to have in place a

(33:37):
continuous improvement registerand a process for that, and
that's where you give students,admin staff, trainers and
assessors and other stakeholdersbeing industry a opportunity to
provide feedback andopportunity for improvement, and
then that should go into yourcontinuous improvement register.
You'll need to have a riskregister, so where you're rating

(34:00):
risks from what is thelikelihood, how likely is this
going to happen and what wouldthe impact be on your RTO if it
were to occur?
So you need to look atpotential risks as well as what
are risks that you currentlyhave within your RTO, and those
risks should be based on yourlearner cohort.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Sorry, angela.
Yeah, I'd add into that in thatregister should be evidence of
the controls that you have putin place to mitigate that risk.
And that's super importantbecause it's the evidence stuff
that when ASQA comes to do yournext performance assessment,
that's the stuff they want tosee, not just that you put it in

(34:42):
a register, but that you'vetaken necessary steps to
mitigate those risks and youcould, you've got evidence of
having put those controls inplace and reviewing those
controls regularly to ensurethey're still effective yeah,
I've also seen a couple ofquestions in the chat, and Paul

(35:04):
put one in about how many hoursdo you recommend for both VET
and industry currency.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
This is risk management as well.
You need to be able to managethat risk, and there is.
Although the standards don'tstate that you need to have a
certain amount of hours, it isyour responsibility as an RTO to
have a professional developmentpoint process within your RTO
that aligns with your learnercohort as well as with the

(35:32):
training products that you aredelivering.
And if you've got high-risktraining products, there should
be more PD that is undertaken,and this is really going to be
determined by you as an RTO andthat's where you need to
undertake a risk management ofthat.
So you need to, and this wasjust a great example of how we
could implement.
Risk management is okay.

(35:53):
How many hours should werequire our trainers and
assessors and admin staff tocomplete in the vet and the
industry sector?
Let's take into considerationwhat training products we're
delivering and the students ourlearner cohort, who are the
learner cohort and who is theindustry, and then you should
identify some sort of process, apolicy and procedure on how are

(36:16):
you going to manage that andhave a professional development
point system in place wonderfulthanks.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Yeah, so, and then at the very top of all of that, I
guess, when you, if we sit backup at the top of the RTO ladder,
executive management need tohave adequate oversight over all
of that.
So regular meetings to reviewthese risk management strategies
, regular meetings and meetingminutes.

(36:46):
So evidence of those meetingsto ensure there's review of that
continuous improvement register.
It can't be a static documentthat sits off to the side that
nobody looks at.
You have to have the evidenceof executive management being
engaged in the governance ofyour organisation and taking

(37:08):
necessary steps where it'srequired to obviously step in
and mitigate and take action tomitigate risks within the
organisation.
So the focus really is on themanagement and executive team
within NERTO to have thosegovernance processes, policies,
policies, procedures in placeyeah, it's no longer.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
You can palm that off to someone else.
As senior management, you needto have a good understanding of
the compliance requirements.
The number of times where we'vetaken on a potential new client
and they haven't even read thestandards and they don't
actually know what are therequirements because they're the
CEO, that's no longer.

(37:51):
You can't do that.
You need to have a goodunderstanding and everyone
within your RTO needs toundertake that professional
development to ensure that theyunderstand the requirements of
the standards.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yep, awesome.
Okay, so I'll just touch alittle bit more on continuous
improvement because that's had a, you know, further
strengthening under thestandards and we touched on it
on the previous slide.
But some things to considerthere in the new standards.
The previous standards used totalk about stakeholder

(38:29):
engagement.
It was fairly vague who thosestakeholders should be and what
sort of engagement.
That's all been very, very wellclarified under the new
standards.
Recommend that you ensure thatyou've got in place and have
evidence of is how you collect,collate and analyze data and

(38:49):
feedback from multiple sources,and some of those sources should
include complaints, yourcomplaints and appeals logs.
So if you don't have acomplaints and appeals register
where you collect, collate andact on all of your complaints
and complaints and appeals, Idefinitely recommend you need to

(39:10):
have that in place and have aprocess again that governance
process for management to bereviewing that and adding any
risks from there into your riskregister and into any
improvements into yourcontinuous improvement register.
Everything has to flow throughfrom the data source through to
your continuous improvement andrisk management strategies and

(39:31):
be reviewed by your governance.
That's really what you're goingto hear from us, I guess, when
we talk about a lot of thesethings in governance.
You need to be ensuring thatyou've got processes to collect,
collate and analyze feedbackfrom your students, from your
staff, so you know trainers andwhat their students say about

(39:53):
their training employers.
So if you work with employers,you should be getting feedback
from employers and industry andensuring that all of that
information is fed back intoyour industry, like from
employees.
I would recommend having anindustry engagement register and
ensuring all of thatinformation from employers goes

(40:16):
into that industry engagementregister and then is used and
then you can show how you'vetaken that information from
industry, adapted your learningand assessment strategies or
your training and assessmentstrategies.
Keep a log of that in yourcontinuous improvement register
so you can show the flow throughfrom collecting, collating,
analyzing and implementing thosechanges within your

(40:40):
organization.
And ideally you know when youupdate any documents you update
the version and you say what thechange was in your version
control history and you point itback to that industry
engagement that you made withindustry.
You have to connect the dots.
It's no longer okay just to sayyou do it, when ASCO has made

(41:00):
it really clear under these newstandards that you've got to
have the evidence.
So having that trail is is morecritical than ever, I think, in
terms of the strengthening ofgovernment governance.
If you go through thatgovernance standard and those
practice guides they make,asquam makes it really clear
what they want to see when theycome for the next performance
assessment.
Um yeah, any other uh, uh uhpoints around governance that

(41:26):
you've got to share?

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Oh yeah, there's some major changes.
So just what we've identifiedthat needs to change.
So we used to have separateregisters.
We've now created onespreadsheet that has all of the
registers together and thenmanaging that data.
So opportunity for improvement,whs, complaints and appeals,

(41:48):
fit and proper person, industryconsultation, third parties so
managing your third parties.
Materials, so your resources,materials and equipment, your
professional developmentregister, your credit transfer
register, your RPL register.
So there's a lot of differentregisters now that we'll need to

(42:10):
have in place and they shouldall be tied to a risk management
and quality control.
So how we've done it and I'mnot sure whether I didn't get
permission for this beforehandI'd like to show my spreadsheet
of how I've created that ifanybody's interested in having a

(42:31):
look.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Have you got screen share?
Yep, yep, go for it.
We'd love to see.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Okay, so basically this is what we've put together.
So we've got.
So this is the opportunitiesfor improvement.
So you have a registered number, the date that it goes in,
who's completed it, and then wehave pull-down menus so you can
say what position it is, thatthey're in, the type of
opportunity.
So we've also got pull-downmenus for those, if I can get

(43:03):
them to work.
So we've also got pull downmenus for those, if I can get
them to work.
And then the type of sodescription of that who's was it
stakeholder feedback that youreceived and then giving it the
mechanisms of that data that youcollected.
So how did you collect thatdata?
Where did it come from?
What is the root cause?

(43:24):
Then, going along to actionsthat are going to be taken, what
priority level?
So high, medium or low?
The source of the opportunityfor improvement, any corrective
actions, who is it assigned to?
Monitoring and evaluation,effectiveness and actions, and

(43:44):
then completion, and thencompletion and then, as I said,
for all of these registers,we've then got a risk management
and quality control.
So where it was identified.
So then that would tie intoyour full risk management
process and how are you ensuringthat you are managing and
mitigating those risks.
So it's not just recording it,it's what are you doing to

(44:06):
complete each of those, and sowe've covered that for each area
.
So work, health and safety,complaints and appeals.
New one fit and proper personyou need to have a register in
place of everyone who hascompleted a fit and proper
person form and then theevidence that supports that.
So what type of evidence haveyou provided, or has that person

(44:28):
provided, to support that?
So, whether it is a driver'slicense or a record of them
being part of a committee or inwithin a role somewhere.
Then we've got our industryconsultation.
So a register for that and whattraining product that relates
to.
Then your third parties.

(44:50):
So who's involved within yourthird parties?
When was the last time thecontract was updated?
And then making sure thatyou're uploading that document
as well.
And then professionaldevelopment register, for it can
be just trainers and assessors,but it can also be for all of
your staff.
So it's looking at it could bean advisory board member, it

(45:13):
could be a career advisor, itcould be a lead assessor.
So we've got a range ofdifferent roles that that could
be.
When the PD was undertaken,they categorize that PD.
So was it under training andassessment.
What is it under vet PD thatthey completed that, the mode of

(45:35):
delivery, also when, when itwas delivered, the duration, and
this is where.
So I had that question fromPaul with regards to PD points,
this is where you can identifywhat would be suitable PD points
for that type of professionaldevelopment that was undertaken

(45:56):
and then making sure you've gotevidence and then, of course,
risk managing that.
So that just gives you an idea.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
That performance sorry.
Professional developmentregister.
I think is really importantevidence now under the new
standards.
So one of the big changes inthe governance requirements
under the new standards is youknow, in the old days, pre-2025
standards, onus was really ontrainers and assessors to

(46:25):
maintain their professionaldevelopment.
There was very little talkabout professional development
across all staff and there wasno real onus on RTOs to maintain
professional development.
So often vet staff are havingto bill for professional
development themselves and takeactions themselves to maintain

(46:47):
their professional development.
So that's really changed.
Under the standards.
The onus is now on the RTO toensure that they provide their
staff opportunities forprofessional development.
So if you haven't got aprofessional development
schedule and a register to youknow to prove that you've had
your staff undertake that and aregister to prove that you've

(47:08):
had your staff undertake that,again, it also ties into the
governance requirements thatrequire RTOs to I've just lost
my train of thought complianceculture.
So there's a requirement underthe standards for the RTO to
show that they have a culture ofcompliance and obviously that

(47:31):
professional development isreally critical to show evidence
that your RTO has a culture ofcompliance by upgrading,
ensuring your staff are doingprofessional development in that
area and have the necessaryskills to work within the vet
sector.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
I've got a question here from Sarah what software
are you using to log all thisinformation?
Now, one thing that we reallyidentified is this is going to
be too hard to manage throughspreadsheets.
As you can see, thatspreadsheet that I created has a
lot of information in there.
So we've actually created a newsystem called comply hub, where

(48:10):
it's basically all thosespreadsheets into an app and
basically what you can do is youhave a risk register, so you've
got your dashboard where youcan see quite easily what is
compliant, what is non-compliant, but it's also got your risk
management, so it's managingthose risks within your risk
register.
It's also got a fit and properperson register so you can

(48:32):
ensure that you've kept all ofyour fit and proper person forms
are all being updated andyou've got all the relevant data
within one system as well.
You can also put all yourpolicies, procedures, forms and
documents into here and then mapit against the relevant
standards, so the quality areaas well as the division.

(48:54):
So we just noticed when we werecreating all of the new
documents under the newstandards, we actually realised
there's a lot of work here whenit comes to spreadsheets, and we
knew that a lot of our clientswere going to find that too
overwhelming and a lot of workto do, so I thought, well, what
can I do to make it easier foryou?

(49:14):
So this one is all automated andit has like a continuous
improvement register.
It has the risk management.
There are a few other systemsthat are out there as well.
I've seen a few others that areout there, but the way we've
written this is based on my 30years of experience of doing the
risk registers through aspreadsheet and then putting it

(49:36):
into software and making iteasier.
And then the other thing thatwe've done is we've also
included our RTO compliance botso you can have a consultant
24-7 that can answer any of yourquestions.
It's basically me as cloned asa bot, where you can ask any
compliance questions and it willanswer those questions within

(49:57):
the bot.
We found that this is the onlyway that you're going to be able
to manage that ongoingcompliance without having all of
these different spreadsheetsand then trying to make sure
that everyone on your team ismeeting the compliance
requirements as well.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah, I don't think you can really manage your
compliance, risk and governancestrategy with spreadsheets
anymore.
I actually think spreadsheetshave a lot of responsibility.
I don't know if thespreadsheets are responsible,
but the problem withspreadsheets is people feel like

(50:33):
they're doing stuff, but youknow things are going out of
date, things are becoming notcurrent.
No one knows about it.
No one's checking thespreadsheets.
Similar to, and Angela and Iare really passionate about the
stuff, as you can probably tell,and eSkilled obviously is one
of the first sort of studentmanagement systems to really
take compliance seriously andprovide support for RTOs in that

(50:57):
space too.
For those of you that areeSkilled clients, you already
know that we have complaints,appeals registers, compliance
document registers, training andassessor matrix registers,
industry engagement registers.
We've just done a big overhaulto implement all of that into

(51:20):
our automations process.
One of the things is even withthe registers within an
application, the key is thatsomeone's notified of something
goes is becoming not gone, goneinto non compliance, but it's,
it's ready for review or or itneeds review.
For instance, if a trainercurrency is running out, you
want to know six to eight weeksbefore that happens, not not on

(51:43):
the day when someone remembersto have a look so ensuring
you've got systematic processesin place to notify and ping the
right people, whether it's atask or an email or like comply
hub.
There, where you've got thatvisual representation, you can
log in and see if anything'sglowing red or flashing red.
So you know that you've got totake some action.

(52:05):
And it's got to be easy becauseotherwise, if anything's
glowing red or flashing red, soyou know that you've got to take
some action.
And it's got to be easy becauseotherwise, if it's not, things
just fall under the radar andyeah, the the same.
Uh, things are going tocontinue in the vet sector and I
think we need to move forward,um, together with compliance as
a focus, I think it's-.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
And we wanna make compliance easy.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , it's gotta be-.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Shouldn't be so complicated.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
It's gotta be easy, otherwise, yeah, things just
don't get done.
So, yeah, we're passionateabout that and yeah, we're just
wary of time, so we might passthe pass it over to you guys for
some more questions.
Angela's been answering some aswe went, so thanks, angela.
Will, can you read us off somequestions that you've noted

(52:53):
along the way?
Oh, you've got no audio, Ithink it's answered a lot in
there.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Yeah, go Will.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
Is it true that the TA40110 at Merlingwood needs the
two units upgrade under the newstandards?

Speaker 2 (53:14):
No.
So under the new requirements,this is in the effort of trying
to get more trainers to comeback who decided they didn't
want to do the upgrade.
However, they do need todemonstrate professional
development in the VET sector.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
That's good.
Are contract trainers under thenew standards considered as
third parties?

Speaker 2 (53:38):
This all depends on whether they're delivering
training and assessment underyour scope of registration or
are they delivering training andassessment for your RTO.
So when I say under your scopeof registration, they're
marketing and selling thecourses on their own.
If you've got a contracttrainer who is contracted just

(53:59):
to deliver the training andassessment, no, they're not a
third party.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
MR BENTLEY SCARLETT CARLEY's got her hand up for a
question.
Carley, did you want to askyour question?

Speaker 2 (54:09):
MS LIVINGSTONE, it's gone down again.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
MR BENTLEY SCARLETT.
Oh, it's gone.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Maybe that was the phantom hand, mr BENTLEY
SCARLETT.
I'll go to some of the new ones.
How are nominal hours affectedor interpreted in new standards?

Speaker 2 (54:30):
So watch this space.
This is all going to fall underthe new qualifications
framework, but what we're seeingat audit is nominal hours is
still what ASQA are using whenit comes to looking at the hours
that you're putting into yourtraining and assessment strategy
, and those nominal hours shouldinclude your training and
applying those skills.
On a number of occasions, theassessing the tasks that they're

(54:51):
doing in their own time, so itcould be assessments or tasks
that you're doing at home.
It also includes workplacements, so if they're
undergoing work placementdependent on the training
product, so we are still usingthe nominal hours and that's
what I would recommend that RTOsdo and watch this space,

(55:15):
because it will be changingunder the new qualifications
framework.
Woohoo.
More changes.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Yeah, james is asking for clarification between
nominal hours or volume oflearning.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Okay.
So there's been a big change, ashift away from volume of
learning so it's more the amountof training.
So what we've seen in audit isit's not that focus on volume of
learning, it's the amount oftraining.
So what we've seen in audit isit's not that focus on volume of
learning, it's the amount oftimes that you are allowing the
students to apply the skills ona number of occasions.

(55:51):
So that's what amount oftraining means is how many?
How often are they getting theopportunity to apply those
skills?
So it's not just learning it.
For example, I'll give ahospitality example.
They haven't just learnt how tocook a souffle and then they're
assessed.
It is how many times have theycooked that souffle before they

(56:14):
are assessed?

Speaker 1 (56:16):
All about their practice, yep.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah and yes more about their practice applying
the skills.
Got lots of questions now.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Lots of questions coming up.
Is there a timeline for the AQFchanges?

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Four years ago it was five years, but I think,
because of the delay with thesestandards, it's also been a
delay with the AQF.
The first version of what we'veseen is micro-credentialing and
the government funding that wasprovided under
micro-credentialing.
So what I'm recommending isbuild more micro-credential
courses, and what that means isputting together units of

(56:56):
competencies that meet anindustry sector requirements.
And the best way I can explainthe changes with the Australian
Qualifications Framework iswhere we deliver security
licensing.
It is different in each stateacross Australia, but we have
one national qualification thatdoes not meet the different

(57:18):
state requirements or differentindustry sector requirements
when it comes to securitylicensing.
So the way the new AustralianQualifications Framework will
work is you'll be puttingtogether a training product that
will include the units ofcompetencies that are relevant
for your state and yourlicensing body, for example,

(57:40):
with the security licensing,will be meeting that regulatory
requirement and the units ofcompetencies that they require.
So you're contextualizing aqualification that is going to
meet that industry need, andthat's what I recommend that we
should start doing now.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
One little thing that I thought I should share with
you, which I think is quitenotable under quality area 2, is
that under the new standardsyou know, obviously most RTOs
have some form of LLN assessmentcurrently in place.
Under the new standards as ofJuly 1, you need to have a

(58:19):
language, literacy, numeracy anddigital skills assessment in
place from july 1.
So if you haven't already gotthat done, that's something that
you probably want to get on tostraight away.
Um, the escrow wants to knowthat the students have the
digital skills capacity to beable to undertake the course
within your organization to thelevel of what's required in the

(58:41):
qualification or unit thatthey're studying.
So the level is really going tobe determined by whatever
course they're undertaking.
What is notable is that theshift is also gone from
completing that on enrollment toprior to enrolment.
So that's really notablebecause I know a lot of RTOs are

(59:09):
obviously enrolling studentsinto their courses and then
getting them to do their LNassessment and away they go.
That assessment needs to happenprior to enrolment, so they
shouldn't officially not beenrolled in your student
management system until they'veundertaken that L&D assessment
and have met the entry-levelrequirements for that course and

(59:30):
you can be sure that they'renot going to have any issues.
Obviously, on top of that, youneed to have your support, your
L&D support strategies in placeto, I guess, assist learners
that don't have the necessaryskills immediately.
Obviously, you're going to beable to have to determine
whether you can support thatstudent or whether you obviously

(59:53):
need to refer them to othersupport services to improve
their L&D skills prior toenrolment.
And I think we've just run outof time.
Sorry guys, for anyone that hasto run, it's been a great
session, lots to say, but anyway, that's something to think
about.
It's quite an onerousrequirement.
So we might wrap up there,because I know a lot of you

(01:00:15):
might have to-.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
I'll just quickly add there, because we've got a
question around it as well.
When it comes to LLND, don'trush out and go buy software to
assess that digital skills.
It really depends on yourtraining products and what are
the requirements of the trainingproducts and whether that
student will be required to usedigital skills in the workplace

(01:00:36):
or as part of the assessment,and then determine what type of
digital skills you may need toadd within your assessment prior
to the enrolment.
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
So, yeah, we're going to wrap up, guys.
I hope you've got some valueout of this session.
Just some quick things.
So, if you need assistance,obviously Angela's shared a lot
of her knowledge with us.
So if you need assistance,obviously Angela's shared a lot
of her knowledge with us.
So thanks, angela.
And obviously Vivacity have amyriad of tools and support

(01:01:11):
services that they can help youwith in terms of preparing for
the standards.
So you know, feel free to reachout to Angela if you need any
assistance in the lead-up.
You know, feel free to reachout to Angela if you need any
assistance in the lead up.
Eskilled if you haven't seeneSkilled's RTO management
software before, we have a lotof the systems already in place

(01:01:32):
to manage a lot of thiscompliance stuff that we've been
talking about today.
Sorry about that.
My team's just called.
I think I've got it that myteam's just called.
I think I've got um.
So, yeah, look, we've got a um.
Yeah, a bunch of uh, you know,automations and applications
that can just make the stuffeasy.
It's got to be easy.
And if you're an existingclient and you're not over that

(01:01:54):
stuff, uh, please reach out toour support team because they
can help you, point you in theright direction in terms of
getting properly set up for thestandards and making sure you've
got all those registersunderway and being built and
filled out, if, obviously,angela's also got some
incredible tools in that area.
So, yeah, there's our websites.

(01:02:14):
I promised at the beginningthat Angela was offering a free
readiness checklist, so if youscan the, qr code.
That's right I gave it over toyou, didn't I?
That was a bit naughty and Ididn't get it back.

(01:02:35):
Um, so let's try again.
Sorry, I'm in that zone ofsharing my screen and you
haven't seen a thing.
So, yeah, angela has a QR codehere that she's kindly shared
with us, which will allow you toget that readiness checklist
and just do a quick assessment,make sure that you're prepped

(01:02:56):
and ready to go.
So feel free to scan that.
We'll also follow this up withan email with a recording of
this, if you want to check backor share it with any of your
staff, and Angela will probablyshare that link on an email
after this for those that had tobail out early and didn't get
to see the QR code.

(01:03:17):
So if you weren't able to scanit or it's not working for you
right now, don't worry, we'llsend that to you in an email.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
I've got a link in the chat as well, so you can
just go to that link in the chat, and then I've also got my
email address in there if youhave any further questions that
we weren't able to answer.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
And I think that's a wrap.
Guys, we probably could havetalked for hours.
As you can tell, there's lotsto talk about.
As you can tell, there's lotsto talk about.
I hope you've got some valueout of the session.
I want to say a big thank youto Angela for taking some time
out of her day to share hervaluable knowledge with us.
Feel free to reach out to herif you need further assistance,

(01:03:54):
and we'll be running more ofthese sessions.
If you want to like us orfollow us on LinkedIn, we'll be
somewhere along here.
I have a QR code, but we'llshare it with you.
Our LinkedIn there it isLinkedIn profile with you and
email as well.
These talks will be running forthe next three months.

(01:04:15):
We were sort of jumping intodifferent areas of compliance
with different vet experts andhaving them share their amazing
expertise, as Angela has donewith us today.
So thanks everyone forattending.
Sorry for taking you a littlebit over time and I do hope that
you got some value out of thesession today.
There's a survey at the end ifyou do have time.
I know I'm pushing my luck, butwe'd love to get your feedback

(01:04:38):
and what you thought of thesession and whether there's
anything that we could have doneto improve the session for you
guys going forward.
So thanks everyone for yourtime today.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Thank you very much, Scott, for having me as your
first guest.
Thank you very much, everyone.
I look forward to catching upwith you again soon.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Thanks everyone, thank you everyone, thank you
everyone.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Thank you everyone, thank you everyone.
Thank you everyone, thank youeveryone.

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VET Talks: Future-Proof Your RTO - Embracing the 2025 Standards with Confidence

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}VET Talks: Future-Proof Your RTO - Embracing the 2025 Standards with Confidence