April 8, 2025 • 19 mins
In this episode of the RTO Superhero Podcast, host Angela Connell-Richards is joined once again by Maciek Fibrich, RTO coach and compliance expert, to unpack the major changes in Quality Area 3 – VET Workforce Management under the new 2025 Standards for RTOs.
With a fresh focus on whole-of-organisation workforce management, these changes mean that compliance is no longer just the responsibility of trainers and assessors—it now extends to all staff, from administration to leadership. Angela and Maciek explore:
✅ VET Workforce Management – How the new standards shift from trainer-only requirements to a holistic workforce approach, ensuring all RTO staff are appropriately trained and developed.
✅ Professional Development for All Staff – Why continuing professional development (CPD) is now required for all employees, including administration, management, and support staff.
✅ Position Descriptions & Compliance Responsibilities – The importance of clearly defining compliance responsibilities across all roles, and ensuring CEOs and managers fully understand their obligations.
✅ Engaging Industry Experts in Training – The new flexibility to involve industry experts in training delivery without requiring them to hold a Cert IV in Training and Assessment—and what RTOs need to do to ensure compliance.
✅ Industry Expert Registers & Competency Systems – How RTOs can document, verify, and manage industry experts, including mapping industry expertise and maintaining a register of specialists.
✅ Co-Assessment with Industry Experts – How experts can support assessment alongside qualified trainers, ensuring stronger industry relevance without compromising compliance.
✅ Risk Management & Implementation Steps – How RTOs should assess risks, update policies, and implement change
Join host Angela Connell-Richards as she opens each episode with a burst of insight and inspiration. Discover why compliance is your launchpad to success, not a limitation.
Wrap up with gratitude and guidance. Subscribe, leave a review, and join our community as we continue supporting your compliance journey in vocational education.
Thank you for tuning in to the RTO Superhero Podcast!
We’re excited to have you join us as we focus on the Revised Standards for RTOs in 2025. Together, we’ll explore key changes, compliance strategies, and actionable insights to help your RTO thrive under the new standards.
Stay connected with the RTO Community:
📌 Don’t forget to:
✔ Subscribe to the RTO Superhero Podcast so you never miss an episode!
✔ Share this episode with your RTO network—compliance is a team effort!
🎙 Listen now and get ahead of the compliance changes before it’s too late!
📢 Want even more compliance insights? Subscribe to our EduStream YouTube Channel for our FAQ series on the New Standards for RTOs 2025! 🎥
🔗 Subscribe now: EduStream by Vivacity Coaching
✉️ Email us at hello@vivacity.com.au
📞 Call us on 1300 729 455
🖥️ Visit us at viva
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela Connell-Richards (00:13):
Okay, let's get started with this.
Welcome back to the RTOSuperhero Podcast.
I'm Angela Connell-Richards andtoday we're diving into
Division 1 of Vet WorkforceManagement when it comes to
Quality Area 3, within the newstandards, and I have our
(00:36):
special guest, maychek, herewith us today with his expertise
and background.
Maychek and I have been in thetraining industry for a long
time, so we've seen things comeand go Young at heart and then
come back again.
Yes, we're definitely young atheart, but what we're seeing is
some things come back again, butvet workforce something very
(00:57):
different, very new from whatwe've had before.
And so we'll dive straight infirst with that Division 1 VET
workforce management Maciek.
What do you see is going to bethe major differences with how
RTOs are running currently, towhat they're going to need to
implement under VET workforcemanagement?
Maciek Fibrich (01:19):
Yeah, look good to be back, and I think the
concept of the current standardswe focus a lot on clauses 1.13,
14, 15 and 16 as is and wedon't often go past that you
know, working under workforcemanagement, not just your
trainers and assessors, and Ithink that's probably the
(01:47):
biggest change in thesestandards around that workforce
management is looking at yourwhole of operation, so
everything from your receptionto your admin staff, to your
support staff, managers and soforth, and I think that's you
know, as the standard says, theworkforce is effectively managed
.
You know, effectively managedto ensure appropriate staffing
(02:07):
to deliver services.
So not just your training andassessment, but services across
your whole operation.
Angela Connell-Richards (02:14):
Yeah, and when I think about services,
I'm thinking about everything.
It's not just the training thatwe're delivering, it's the
support services that we'reoffering as well.
It's the information we'reproviding to the students prior
to course commencement.
It's the support services thatwe're offering as well.
It's the information we'reproviding to the students prior
to course commencement.
It's the issuing of thecertificate.
So it should be a holisticthing.
So I I think it's a positivechange.
Um, yeah, and in particular,the next part in that is it
(02:39):
facilitates access to continuingprofessional development
opportunities to enable staff ofthe organization to effectively
perform their role, and I thinkthis is fantastic that they've
brought this in.
Yeah, what's?
Maciek Fibrich (02:51):
been your experience with staff?
I think, yeah, I think, I thinkyou, you, you, exactly what
you've just said there is isreally important in that for so
long, we focused on trainingtrainer and assessor
professional development and notprofessional development of our
whole team, and that again, wespoke about it last time when we
(03:16):
start looking at compliance andthe culture of compliance and
the culture of continuousimprovement and now risk
management, it's reallyimportant that the whole
workforce within your businessunderstands the standards, what
the implications are and how tomanage those risks, not just, oh
, that's the compliancemanager's role or that's the
trainer's role.
Angela Connell-Richards (03:37):
Yeah, yeah, it should be looking at
the responsibilities of allwithin the organisation, and one
of the things that I've reallynoted with that is position
descriptions.
It needs to be clear within theposition descriptions who is
responsible for compliance,which it should be everyone and
(03:59):
to what level do they need that?
And then so, when you think ofthe type of PD, what type of
they do they need that?
And then so, when you think of,um, the type of pd, what type
of pd do you think would beessential for administration
employees?
Maciek Fibrich (04:13):
okay, pd, from from an admin perspective, it
comes down to even the basicunderstanding of the standards.
Right, let's?
Let's just ensure that thewhole of organization
understands why the standardsexist, what the standards are
designed for, that it's not justabout you know sorry, pleasing
asker or pleasing an auditorthat the standards are actually
(04:36):
built around good businessmanagement and good business
practices and so having the teamunderstand what every aspect of
that is.
So I think professionaldevelopment as a basic concept
should be that.
And then breaking down therespective standards and clauses
if we're still calling themthat or the performance
(04:56):
indicators, and ensuring whichones of those are aligned to
which role within the businessor which functional area if you
don't have roles, and thenmaking sure that there is
emphasis around whether it's thestudent support clauses, that
the student support staffunderstand, that the admin team
know that and as well as the CEO, you know, the person that's
(05:19):
legally responsible for thisbusiness fully understands all
of the standards and how theyapply and the implications
within the business.
Angela Connell-Richards (05:28):
Yeah, the amount of times I've gone
into an RTO and not only thestaff don't understand what are
the requirements, but even theCEO.
Maciek Fibrich (05:38):
Or you hear the comment again that wasn't.
I didn't realise that was myjob, I just, you know, I told
the compliance officer and leftit with them Again.
You know I said a few monthsago, I think you know, if you
saw a light arcing, would youjust walk away and say, oh, I
told the WHS person.
You know.
Angela Connell-Richards (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's all I'm supposed to
do.
Yeah, pass the buck.
Yeah, okay, all right.
So we've uh, we'll touchlightly on trainers and
assessors, because there hasn'treally been any major changes,
other than they've softenedtheir approach when it comes to
trainer qualifications, and wedid talk about this a little bit
in the last podcast as well.
(06:18):
So let's have a look atstandard 3.3, where training and
assessment is delivered bypersons with current industry
skills and knowledge relevant tothe training product.
Not much different when youthink about trainers and
assessors.
But now they're bringing inwhere it engages experts for the
purposes of delivering training.
(06:40):
It does so, and how are theyreferencing that and how are
they ensuring that the expertshave the required skills and
knowledge to be able to sharethat knowledge with the students
?
What do you think will be themajor changes that RTOs need to
look out for when it comes toexperts?
Maciek Fibrich (07:00):
Look, I think we've always looked at having
subject matter experts coming toan RTO and I believe that in
the current standard it was alittle bit challenging to do so
because you weren't quite surewhat skill set they needed to
have.
It's very wishy-washy yeah andso you always sort of questioned
am I if I'm bringing someone infor a day of product
(07:22):
information or you know what isthe the implications there?
This now at least makes it thatyou know when we engage experts
, but it doesn't actually sayfor how long.
So this opens up, I think, theability for an RTO to start
looking at bringing in expertsfrom the field, potentially for
even the duration of the course,maybe one day a week or however
(07:43):
it is for the purpose, as itsays a number of clients that
when they look at delivering aqualification, there sometimes
are situations where there's notone person in the country that
holds their TAE and that fullqualification in its entirety,
(08:04):
because it's a new qualificationor something's come up where
you know, especially in theelectrotechnology area, where
people are sort of skilled inparticular areas as opposed to
the full qualification, and sothis allows people to come in
with specialist skills andknowledge to deliver those
particular areas, but under thesupervision of that RTO or a
(08:29):
person that holds the requiredcredentials.
Angela Connell-Richards (08:34):
Yeah, so I think that's a good thing.
And I think so.
One of the things that we'veidentified is putting together a
register of these experts.
So I think it would be good forRTOs to have a list of experts
that they could possibly bringin who have skills in certain
(08:55):
areas and, like you were talkingabout product experts.
So I know you've worked inhairdressing area and I know
there are a lot of productexperts that you would bring in
with hairdressing.
Maciek Fibrich (09:06):
Yeah, hair beauty building anything, any of
those areas yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (09:09):
Yeah, so part of it is.
One of the requirements is ithas a system in place for
ensuring experts have industrycompetency, skills, knowledge
and specialized industry.
We were thinking, well, couldthis be a trainer's matrix that
they could possibly want, eventhough they won't have the
(09:30):
credentialing of a trainerassessor?
But that's where I was alsothinking.
It could be a register, itcould be trainer's matrix.
Experts are only authorised towork under the direction of a
person with appropriatecredentials to provide direction
on the delivery of training andassessment as specified in the
credential policy.
So that's prettystraightforward, I think.
Maciek Fibrich (09:53):
Yes, I think the concept like, if we break it
down to the current standards,it's effectively training under
supervision without the need tohave that skill set that
currently exists in thestandards.
So I think, again, this is apositive change.
But the process behind it, likeI said, it's very easy to put
(10:15):
together a policy procedure or aprocess around working,
delivering under supervision,which most organizations
probably should have if they'vebeen doing that previously
matter expert mapping or matrix,where you know hopefully
(10:39):
they'll hold the qualificationthat they're delivering or are
superseded superseded andequivalent if you want to go
there.
But just being able to map out,to prove that the subject
matter expert is an expert andwhy they are an expert, it
shouldn't be overwhelming foranyone and it doesn't need to be
war and peace, but it needs tobe able to demonstrate, to
demonstrate that you know whyare they coming in as a subject
(10:59):
matter expert yeah, and they'renot bringing supervision yeah,
and they're not bringing insomeone who just completed their
qualification and have noindustry experience.
Angela Connell-Richards (11:10):
Yeah, which?
Maciek Fibrich (11:12):
which, unfortunately, we know that
happens.
And this is where I think thisis opening up a whole world of a
really good space.
It's opening up a whole worldof new people coming into the
industry who want to impart orpass on their 20, 30 years of
experience but don't have thedesire to go in and get their
(11:33):
Cert IV because why?
You know and I've literallybeen talking to a few clients
recently that want to add toscope but find it very difficult
to find someone that has theexperience in that vocation but
then also has a Cert IV right.
So this really does allow forthat to open up and bring in
(11:54):
experts to teach the nextgeneration.
Angela Connell-Richards (11:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so, and it's
going to give much moreflexibility for RTOs to be able
to, because we've got seasonedtrainers and assessors who don't
necessarily have that currencyin the workforce where they can
bring in a fresh, differentperspective by bringing in these
experts.
(12:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maciek Fibrich (12:18):
Yeah.
So I think they're all greatthings, and I think they're, but
again, this is not a shortcutfor training providers, for RTOs
, to bypass the system.
I think it's again.
We spoke about last during ourlast podcast about risk
management and the approach thatwe need to, and again, these
(12:39):
experts will ultimately fallunder the banner of the 3.1,
which is, the workforce iseffectively managed and then
also you know how theirprofessional development is done
.
So if they're brought into theorganisation as an expert, they
still potentially will need tofall under that banner as well.
Angela Connell-Richards (12:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Well, we've had another greatconversation about these new
standards and, if I can justtalk, about one more thing
though.
Maciek Fibrich (13:10):
Yeah, go for it, but it was that concept that we
spoke about, where the expertis involved in assessment, and
that co-assessing regime as well.
Angela Connell-Richards (13:20):
Yeah, so where the expert is involved
in assessment judgment, theyconduct the assessment alongside
the trainer or assessor, sothey're not making the
assessment judgment on their own.
But, yeah, it definitely willrelieve some of the workload
when it comes to trainers andassessors as well, and I think
it's also going to create moreengaging training for RTS.
(13:43):
Yeah, look.
Maciek Fibrich (13:44):
I think so and we do have that ability for that
co-assessment at the moment.
But I also think there's a lotof people that don't necessarily
understand the concept whereyou've got the qualified trainer
and assessor that might not benecessarily the subject matter
expert in that area facilitatingthe process of assessment,
(14:04):
ensuring that the process isdone, the documentation is done
and then, alongside that person,the subject matter expert
confirming that the actualactions and the way that the
practical activity has beenundertaken is in line with the
standards and the marking guideand so forth.
So it's a slightly morecomplicated process.
(14:25):
But again, we go back to thedays of when we had subject
matter experts, with auditorsthat used to come in and audit
RTOs.
You know the auditor wouldensure that the audit practice
was undertaken correctly, butthe subject matter expert would
actually be the one that wouldbe checking the assessment tools
and the learning material andso forth.
Those days were great in somerespects.
(14:48):
Yeah, when they were actuallyexperts, but yeah, but we, you
know, we had the industrytraining advisory, itabs and
they would, you know, come alongwith the auditors, and so this
is a similar thing, where you'rebringing an expert in.
They may have been involved inthe training, but now they're
(15:10):
going to be involved in theassessment but not making the
ultimate decision.
They are co-assessing in somerespects.
Angela Connell-Richards (15:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think overall it's a goodarea quality area to have
included.
It is one of the biggestchanges, particularly standard
3.1 and 3.3, trainers andassessors.
Not a lot has changed with thatone, but it would be very
(15:37):
interesting to see how RTOsimplement this.
What would be some key stepsthat you would offer to our
audience on what they need to dofirst to comply with these
requirements?
Maciek Fibrich (15:50):
So I was actually just thinking.
You know, it's going to beinteresting where organisations
don't use industry experts,whether they turn out and say,
well, we don't use them, sotherefore we don't need to
document them.
And in some respects, whilstthat might seem logical when you
read the standards and theperformance indicator says the
RTO demonstrates it has systemsin place for ensuring then
(16:12):
experts have industrycompetencies, it doesn't sort of
say if using.
So my approach firstly would beto ensure that, whether you do
or not use industry experts, tostill have a process.
Angela Connell-Richards (16:26):
Because one day you might want to.
Maciek Fibrich (16:29):
Yeah, and so start by obviously analysing the
standard or the performanceindicator as a whole, as a
paragraph, but then break downeach of the words so experts
have industry competence, orcompetencies, skills, knowledge,
specialized industry, et ceteraso that you're actually
(16:50):
covering all of those areas inyour processes, not just one of
those.
It's like when you're assessingstudents you know you're not
just assessing one word, you'reassessing the whole phrase as
such.
And also, the other thing thatI would say is, when you are
putting together your uh, yourprocesses is, just really make
(17:11):
sure that they fit yourpractices or the proposed
practices that you're going tohave, um, not just buying
something off the shelf and thenjust accepting it as is.
So, yeah, start by reallyanalysing what is what you're
going to be doing and then startdocumenting that accordingly.
Angela Connell-Richards (17:29):
Yeah, and I think it should be more
focused around the size andscope of your operations.
Yeah, that's what I was hearingwhen you were saying that, yeah
.
So, also for our audience,there are practice guides that
are out there.
We recently had the newpractice guides for vet
workforce come out, so I dorecommend you check them out and
(17:52):
check out what are the knownrisks and what are the quality
outcomes that they're expectingASQA expecting when it comes to
self-assurance, that they'reexpecting ASQA expecting when it
comes to self-assurance.
There are some really goodguides, tools there that you can
use to help you withrestructuring your policies and
procedures and process whatyou're going to have in place.
Yeah, yeah.
So thank you very much forjoining me today, maychek.
(18:17):
It's been a pleasure.
As per usual, love having ourchats when we get to dive into
the training sector.
Today we've delved into thestandards for RTOs and focusing
on those key areas where we'rereally looking at the vet
workforce, engaging industryexperts and the trainers,
competencies and what's thatimpact going to be on your RTO.
(18:40):
So we hope you've enjoyed thisand got a lot out of it and
learned some new strategies thatyou could implement into your
RTO.
So, yes, thank you very much,maychek, once again, and we look
forward to catching up with youagain soon, where Maychek will
join me again next month, forwhere we'll be covering a few
(19:01):
other areas under the newstandards.
Thanks, matej.
Maciek Fibrich (19:04):
Thank you.
Okay, let's get started with this.
Welcome back to the RTOSuperhero Podcast.
I'm Angela Connell-Richards andtoday we're diving into
Division 1 of Vet WorkforceManagement when it comes to
Quality Area 3, within the newstandards, and I have our
(00:36):
special guest, maychek, herewith us today with his expertise
and background.
Maychek and I have been in thetraining industry for a long
time, so we've seen things comeand go Young at heart and then
come back again.
Yes, we're definitely young atheart, but what we're seeing is
some things come back again, butvet workforce something very
(00:57):
different, very new from whatwe've had before.
And so we'll dive straight infirst with that Division 1 VET
workforce management Maciek.
What do you see is going to bethe major differences with how
RTOs are running currently, towhat they're going to need to
implement under VET workforcemanagement?
Maciek Fibrich (01:19):
Yeah, look good to be back, and I think the
concept of the current standardswe focus a lot on clauses 1.13,
14, 15 and 16 as is and wedon't often go past that you
know, working under workforcemanagement, not just your
trainers and assessors, and Ithink that's probably the
(01:47):
biggest change in thesestandards around that workforce
management is looking at yourwhole of operation, so
everything from your receptionto your admin staff, to your
support staff, managers and soforth, and I think that's you
know, as the standard says, theworkforce is effectively managed
.
You know, effectively managedto ensure appropriate staffing
(02:07):
to deliver services.
So not just your training andassessment, but services across
your whole operation.
Angela Connell-Richards (02:14):
Yeah, and when I think about services,
I'm thinking about everything.
It's not just the training thatwe're delivering, it's the
support services that we'reoffering as well.
It's the information we'reproviding to the students prior
to course commencement.
It's the support services thatwe're offering as well.
It's the information we'reproviding to the students prior
to course commencement.
It's the issuing of thecertificate.
So it should be a holisticthing.
So I I think it's a positivechange.
Um, yeah, and in particular,the next part in that is it
(02:39):
facilitates access to continuingprofessional development
opportunities to enable staff ofthe organization to effectively
perform their role, and I thinkthis is fantastic that they've
brought this in.
Yeah, what's?
Maciek Fibrich (02:51):
been your experience with staff?
I think, yeah, I think, I thinkyou, you, you, exactly what
you've just said there is isreally important in that for so
long, we focused on trainingtrainer and assessor
professional development and notprofessional development of our
whole team, and that again, wespoke about it last time when we
(03:16):
start looking at compliance andthe culture of compliance and
the culture of continuousimprovement and now risk
management, it's reallyimportant that the whole
workforce within your businessunderstands the standards, what
the implications are and how tomanage those risks, not just, oh
, that's the compliancemanager's role or that's the
trainer's role.
Angela Connell-Richards (03:37):
Yeah, yeah, it should be looking at
the responsibilities of allwithin the organisation, and one
of the things that I've reallynoted with that is position
descriptions.
It needs to be clear within theposition descriptions who is
responsible for compliance,which it should be everyone and
(03:59):
to what level do they need that?
And then so, when you think ofthe type of PD, what type of
they do they need that?
And then so, when you think of,um, the type of pd, what type
of pd do you think would beessential for administration
employees?
Maciek Fibrich (04:13):
okay, pd, from from an admin perspective, it
comes down to even the basicunderstanding of the standards.
Right, let's?
Let's just ensure that thewhole of organization
understands why the standardsexist, what the standards are
designed for, that it's not justabout you know sorry, pleasing
asker or pleasing an auditorthat the standards are actually
(04:36):
built around good businessmanagement and good business
practices and so having the teamunderstand what every aspect of
that is.
So I think professionaldevelopment as a basic concept
should be that.
And then breaking down therespective standards and clauses
if we're still calling themthat or the performance
(04:56):
indicators, and ensuring whichones of those are aligned to
which role within the businessor which functional area if you
don't have roles, and thenmaking sure that there is
emphasis around whether it's thestudent support clauses, that
the student support staffunderstand, that the admin team
know that and as well as the CEO, you know, the person that's
(05:19):
legally responsible for thisbusiness fully understands all
of the standards and how theyapply and the implications
within the business.
Angela Connell-Richards (05:28):
Yeah, the amount of times I've gone
into an RTO and not only thestaff don't understand what are
the requirements, but even theCEO.
Maciek Fibrich (05:38):
Or you hear the comment again that wasn't.
I didn't realise that was myjob, I just, you know, I told
the compliance officer and leftit with them Again.
You know I said a few monthsago, I think you know, if you
saw a light arcing, would youjust walk away and say, oh, I
told the WHS person.
You know.
Angela Connell-Richards (05:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's all I'm supposed to
do.
Yeah, pass the buck.
Yeah, okay, all right.
So we've uh, we'll touchlightly on trainers and
assessors, because there hasn'treally been any major changes,
other than they've softenedtheir approach when it comes to
trainer qualifications, and wedid talk about this a little bit
in the last podcast as well.
(06:18):
So let's have a look atstandard 3.3, where training and
assessment is delivered bypersons with current industry
skills and knowledge relevant tothe training product.
Not much different when youthink about trainers and
assessors.
But now they're bringing inwhere it engages experts for the
purposes of delivering training.
(06:40):
It does so, and how are theyreferencing that and how are
they ensuring that the expertshave the required skills and
knowledge to be able to sharethat knowledge with the students
?
What do you think will be themajor changes that RTOs need to
look out for when it comes toexperts?
Maciek Fibrich (07:00):
Look, I think we've always looked at having
subject matter experts coming toan RTO and I believe that in
the current standard it was alittle bit challenging to do so
because you weren't quite surewhat skill set they needed to
have.
It's very wishy-washy yeah andso you always sort of questioned
am I if I'm bringing someone infor a day of product
(07:22):
information or you know what isthe the implications there?
This now at least makes it thatyou know when we engage experts
, but it doesn't actually sayfor how long.
So this opens up, I think, theability for an RTO to start
looking at bringing in expertsfrom the field, potentially for
even the duration of the course,maybe one day a week or however
(07:43):
it is for the purpose, as itsays a number of clients that
when they look at delivering aqualification, there sometimes
are situations where there's notone person in the country that
holds their TAE and that fullqualification in its entirety,
(08:04):
because it's a new qualificationor something's come up where
you know, especially in theelectrotechnology area, where
people are sort of skilled inparticular areas as opposed to
the full qualification, and sothis allows people to come in
with specialist skills andknowledge to deliver those
particular areas, but under thesupervision of that RTO or a
(08:29):
person that holds the requiredcredentials.
Angela Connell-Richards (08:34):
Yeah, so I think that's a good thing.
And I think so.
One of the things that we'veidentified is putting together a
register of these experts.
So I think it would be good forRTOs to have a list of experts
that they could possibly bringin who have skills in certain
(08:55):
areas and, like you were talkingabout product experts.
So I know you've worked inhairdressing area and I know
there are a lot of productexperts that you would bring in
with hairdressing.
Maciek Fibrich (09:06):
Yeah, hair beauty building anything, any of
those areas yeah.
Angela Connell-Richards (09:09):
Yeah, so part of it is.
One of the requirements is ithas a system in place for
ensuring experts have industrycompetency, skills, knowledge
and specialized industry.
We were thinking, well, couldthis be a trainer's matrix that
they could possibly want, eventhough they won't have the
(09:30):
credentialing of a trainerassessor?
But that's where I was alsothinking.
It could be a register, itcould be trainer's matrix.
Experts are only authorised towork under the direction of a
person with appropriatecredentials to provide direction
on the delivery of training andassessment as specified in the
credential policy.
So that's prettystraightforward, I think.
Maciek Fibrich (09:53):
Yes, I think the concept like, if we break it
down to the current standards,it's effectively training under
supervision without the need tohave that skill set that
currently exists in thestandards.
So I think, again, this is apositive change.
But the process behind it, likeI said, it's very easy to put
(10:15):
together a policy procedure or aprocess around working,
delivering under supervision,which most organizations
probably should have if they'vebeen doing that previously
matter expert mapping or matrix,where you know hopefully
(10:39):
they'll hold the qualificationthat they're delivering or are
superseded superseded andequivalent if you want to go
there.
But just being able to map out,to prove that the subject
matter expert is an expert andwhy they are an expert, it
shouldn't be overwhelming foranyone and it doesn't need to be
war and peace, but it needs tobe able to demonstrate, to
demonstrate that you know whyare they coming in as a subject
(10:59):
matter expert yeah, and they'renot bringing supervision yeah,
and they're not bringing insomeone who just completed their
qualification and have noindustry experience.
Angela Connell-Richards (11:10):
Yeah, which?
Maciek Fibrich (11:12):
which, unfortunately, we know that
happens.
And this is where I think thisis opening up a whole world of a
really good space.
It's opening up a whole worldof new people coming into the
industry who want to impart orpass on their 20, 30 years of
experience but don't have thedesire to go in and get their
(11:33):
Cert IV because why?
You know and I've literallybeen talking to a few clients
recently that want to add toscope but find it very difficult
to find someone that has theexperience in that vocation but
then also has a Cert IV right.
So this really does allow forthat to open up and bring in
(11:54):
experts to teach the nextgeneration.
Angela Connell-Richards (11:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so, and it's
going to give much moreflexibility for RTOs to be able
to, because we've got seasonedtrainers and assessors who don't
necessarily have that currencyin the workforce where they can
bring in a fresh, differentperspective by bringing in these
experts.
(12:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maciek Fibrich (12:18):
Yeah.
So I think they're all greatthings, and I think they're, but
again, this is not a shortcutfor training providers, for RTOs
, to bypass the system.
I think it's again.
We spoke about last during ourlast podcast about risk
management and the approach thatwe need to, and again, these
(12:39):
experts will ultimately fallunder the banner of the 3.1,
which is, the workforce iseffectively managed and then
also you know how theirprofessional development is done
.
So if they're brought into theorganisation as an expert, they
still potentially will need tofall under that banner as well.
Angela Connell-Richards (12:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Well, we've had another greatconversation about these new
standards and, if I can justtalk, about one more thing
though.
Maciek Fibrich (13:10):
Yeah, go for it, but it was that concept that we
spoke about, where the expertis involved in assessment, and
that co-assessing regime as well.
Angela Connell-Richards (13:20):
Yeah, so where the expert is involved
in assessment judgment, theyconduct the assessment alongside
the trainer or assessor, sothey're not making the
assessment judgment on their own.
But, yeah, it definitely willrelieve some of the workload
when it comes to trainers andassessors as well, and I think
it's also going to create moreengaging training for RTS.
(13:43):
Yeah, look.
Maciek Fibrich (13:44):
I think so and we do have that ability for that
co-assessment at the moment.
But I also think there's a lotof people that don't necessarily
understand the concept whereyou've got the qualified trainer
and assessor that might not benecessarily the subject matter
expert in that area facilitatingthe process of assessment,
(14:04):
ensuring that the process isdone, the documentation is done
and then, alongside that person,the subject matter expert
confirming that the actualactions and the way that the
practical activity has beenundertaken is in line with the
standards and the marking guideand so forth.
So it's a slightly morecomplicated process.
(14:25):
But again, we go back to thedays of when we had subject
matter experts, with auditorsthat used to come in and audit
RTOs.
You know the auditor wouldensure that the audit practice
was undertaken correctly, butthe subject matter expert would
actually be the one that wouldbe checking the assessment tools
and the learning material andso forth.
Those days were great in somerespects.
(14:48):
Yeah, when they were actuallyexperts, but yeah, but we, you
know, we had the industrytraining advisory, itabs and
they would, you know, come alongwith the auditors, and so this
is a similar thing, where you'rebringing an expert in.
They may have been involved inthe training, but now they're
(15:10):
going to be involved in theassessment but not making the
ultimate decision.
They are co-assessing in somerespects.
Angela Connell-Richards (15:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think overall it's a goodarea quality area to have
included.
It is one of the biggestchanges, particularly standard
3.1 and 3.3, trainers andassessors.
Not a lot has changed with thatone, but it would be very
(15:37):
interesting to see how RTOsimplement this.
What would be some key stepsthat you would offer to our
audience on what they need to dofirst to comply with these
requirements?
Maciek Fibrich (15:50):
So I was actually just thinking.
You know, it's going to beinteresting where organisations
don't use industry experts,whether they turn out and say,
well, we don't use them, sotherefore we don't need to
document them.
And in some respects, whilstthat might seem logical when you
read the standards and theperformance indicator says the
RTO demonstrates it has systemsin place for ensuring then
(16:12):
experts have industrycompetencies, it doesn't sort of
say if using.
So my approach firstly would beto ensure that, whether you do
or not use industry experts, tostill have a process.
Angela Connell-Richards (16:26):
Because one day you might want to.
Maciek Fibrich (16:29):
Yeah, and so start by obviously analysing the
standard or the performanceindicator as a whole, as a
paragraph, but then break downeach of the words so experts
have industry competence, orcompetencies, skills, knowledge,
specialized industry, et ceteraso that you're actually
(16:50):
covering all of those areas inyour processes, not just one of
those.
It's like when you're assessingstudents you know you're not
just assessing one word, you'reassessing the whole phrase as
such.
And also, the other thing thatI would say is, when you are
putting together your uh, yourprocesses is, just really make
(17:11):
sure that they fit yourpractices or the proposed
practices that you're going tohave, um, not just buying
something off the shelf and thenjust accepting it as is.
So, yeah, start by reallyanalysing what is what you're
going to be doing and then startdocumenting that accordingly.
Angela Connell-Richards (17:29):
Yeah, and I think it should be more
focused around the size andscope of your operations.
Yeah, that's what I was hearingwhen you were saying that, yeah
.
So, also for our audience,there are practice guides that
are out there.
We recently had the newpractice guides for vet
workforce come out, so I dorecommend you check them out and
(17:52):
check out what are the knownrisks and what are the quality
outcomes that they're expectingASQA expecting when it comes to
self-assurance, that they'reexpecting ASQA expecting when it
comes to self-assurance.
There are some really goodguides, tools there that you can
use to help you withrestructuring your policies and
procedures and process whatyou're going to have in place.
Yeah, yeah.
So thank you very much forjoining me today, maychek.
(18:17):
It's been a pleasure.
As per usual, love having ourchats when we get to dive into
the training sector.
Today we've delved into thestandards for RTOs and focusing
on those key areas where we'rereally looking at the vet
workforce, engaging industryexperts and the trainers,
competencies and what's thatimpact going to be on your RTO.
(18:40):
So we hope you've enjoyed thisand got a lot out of it and
learned some new strategies thatyou could implement into your
RTO.
So, yes, thank you very much,maychek, once again, and we look
forward to catching up with youagain soon, where Maychek will
join me again next month, forwhere we'll be covering a few
(19:01):
other areas under the newstandards.
Thanks, matej.
Maciek Fibrich (19:04):
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.