October 13, 2024 • 43 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier recap all the big news of the rugby world from the last fortnight - beginning with the All Blacks and All Blacks XV squads selected for tours north - who were the unlucky ones that missed out and who can count themselves lucky to be there?
We review the Black Ferns' WXV1 campaign and assess their stocks a year out from the Rugby World Cup in England, as well as look at the NPC with the final four now set.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from news Talks EDB. Follow
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Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliot Smith powered by news talks ITB.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome in to Rugby Direct powered by Fourklift Solutions, lifting
you and your business to a high level. After a
week where we were rested and rotated out of the
podcast line up, Liam, we are back, refreshed and ready
to go and there is plenty to dig into in
the rugby world. As always, Greetings once again.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Greetings, yes, and congratulations are in order for the elliotts
Smith family. Yes, your sister a new addition to the world.
Congratulations on being an uncle to young Imagen. So it
must have been a special occasion and crush church very special.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, lovely to meet me Imagen and very very exciting
times for us. So it's been a pretty special week.
So good to having you podcast listener as well. I'm
sure it's Jesus to get them young and on the
podcast train with rag the Direct.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Look, there's Rugby Direct fans mini populated out in the community.
I was at a birthday party over the weekend Japanese theme.
There were summer wrestling Tipanyaki and met some fans of
the Pods. Shout out to Miles Andrews. Unfortunately he's another
christ Church bloke. He attended the Razor did a fundraiser
(01:36):
at the Summer Rugby Club which she attended and turned
up to this party as a karate kid and we
just happened to be in the same outfit and he
was telling me what a fan is of the Pod, So, oh,
they just can't get away from it, mate, There's fans everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, I believe Scott Robinson did do that thing in Sumner.
A good friend of mine, Daniel Bell, was doing them singh.
So I'm intrigued to hear what raisors thoughts were on that.
But well, a week you going out, Razor selected his
all Blacks and all Blacks of Fiends squads and a
little bit from his selectors and clad McMillan in the
as well. I guess it's been a week you've had
(02:14):
the chance to let it soak him. What were the
takeaways for you from that all black squad?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, I guess probably one of the most predictable Northern
tour squads in history. There weren't a lot of headline
takeaways were there. Cam Ruga great to see him back
and well first of all to come back and what
an impression he's made straight off the back. Came off
the bench for Counties, scored two tries, one with a
(02:40):
trademark dummy and then started last weekend and Wellington as
Counties lost their quarter final. So the one change to
the squads, I.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Wrote something for the Heralds last week.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
My hope was that that squad would be more picked
with developments, not necessarily front and center, but more more
of casting ahead to the future. Guys like Peter Luckeye
I wanted to see in that squads. No hope them
(03:17):
I would have had in there over TJ. Peanara, but
Rays has been very consistent and conservative for me in
terms of maintaining that level of experience and carrying guys
as long as he wants, and I guess it probably
reflects that he's feeling the heat that doesn't he because
it is going to be a very grueling stretch this
India tour, the England's, France and Ireland those three tests
(03:43):
and fifteen days currently six and three, so there's no
regal room in terms of results, and for me, that
squad really did reflect the fact he's feeling that the
heats in his first year as head coached.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, I don't think he feels he's got the rope
to be able to bring out at Peter Luckeye, or
to be able to bring in some younger players and
get them on the road to twenty twenty seven. It's
focused on the here and now and winning these test matches.
And you know, we'll probably touch on it a wee
bit later. But the French, with the sounding that they
won't send a top squad down to New Zealand next year,
(04:14):
perhaps gives them the opportunity to bring in some of
those players next year, perhaps earlier than they may have considered.
So maybe they're sort of balancing those two things out.
But I just don't think there's the rope there to
be tinkering with too many selections. And I think you're right,
there is the pressure that comes with the All Blacks
job and the pressure that with having three losses already
(04:34):
in this tenure is feeling. So I don't think it
was a surprise that there weren't many changes. Peter luck
I said, a good season for Wellington before that the Hurricanes.
He could have been a player that comes in, but
I just don't think there was too much room to
bring in too many other players. And that's where I
suppose you look at the All Blacks fifteen and go, well,
if there's injuries, these are the players that are going
(04:54):
to be called in, and the All Blacks fifteen squad
with a wee bit of a nod to the future,
but at times also a look back as well. You know,
Ricky Ricketteally is somehow not in the top six hookers
in the country, which is stagger and you go, okay, well,
maybe they're looking to the future. But then Kurt Eckland,
who's older than Rocky Rittelly, is in the squad. They
gone with you. Bridie McCallister out of the Crusader's Bradley
(05:17):
Slater out of Tartanaki, Rocky Rocketell he's Taranaki teammate as well,
So there are some eyebrow raising selections there as well.
But if you're Ricky Ricottelly, you're probably going, well, how
am I not in the top six sockers in the
country when I started for the Super Rugby Champions.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And Eklund on the bench for the whole of the
Blues championship. The Blues lineout was by far and away
the best in the competition. I think it was eighty
nine percent this year. You know, he's not a damaging
ball carrier by any stretcher, Ricktell. He probably lacks a
bit of punch with ball in hands, but he's busy.
(05:54):
His lineout throwing is very effective, and that is an
area of concern for the All Blacks. Behind Cody Taylor,
George Bell and Asafa Armore not noted lineout throwers, and
yeah behind them, I think Bradley Slater deputizes for Rica
Telly in Tartanucky, so that was one very perplexing selection.
(06:18):
Other guys that are unlucky to miss the cat Braden
Yossi very good for the Hurricanes this year and has
performed well for a struggling mun Or two falal Fuckatava.
The aor Blecks fifteen only have two half backs. He's
gone backwards in quite a big way, but I thought
has actually performed quite well for Hawk's Bay this year
and then the midfield to a degree as well. Daniel
(06:40):
Rohn has been very good for Taranuki but look, I
think it's fair to say that the All Blacks coaching
team raiser largely packed the All Blacks fifteen, and that's
what you'd expect, And I am intrigued to see how
those squads interact, how many players shift in between those
(07:01):
two teams, and probably what effect that has on the
or Blecks fifteen more than anything, because the All Blacks
of name thirty six players coming and going can be
a bit destabilizing, particularly when you're only going to be
in You're only playing two matches with the All Blacks fifteen.
So just how many of those players go to Japan
(07:21):
and get mixed and match throughout that tour.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, indeed, that's the interesting thing. And what chances they get.
It's obviously only two games, so you'd suspect that everyone's
probably going to get one start. Maybe if you look
at that, perhaps apart from the props and hookers in
front rows, they're probably likely to mix and match some
of those selections for the Monster game and the Georgia game.
No Jacob brother my Tovurki Neepkins question whether he would
(07:46):
have hopefully been there. I think he's been very very
good for Taranaki this year before he suffered that neck injury,
which sounds pretty serious and lucky it was caught as
well by the doctors. After that ran fairly shield challenge
against Tasman the week prior. He missed out on the squad,
but we don't know whether he would have been in there,
Shawn Stevenson. The drums are beating. It's you know, a
(08:06):
lot of rumors going around at the moment that he's
Warriors bound in twenty twenty five. This could be his
last hourrah in rugby union as well. Nothing confirmed on
that front as well, But it's an intriguing squad because
the mixed match of players of youth I said before,
but also some of those players that have been in
the All Blacks in modern adawa and then come out
of it again, you know Dallas McLeod in last year
(08:30):
out again. So Brandon also can consider himself very very unlucky.
But there is a lot of depth at loose Ford
at the moment as a whole, not necessarily in specific jusies,
but I think if you go look at the loose
Ford stocks that are pretty deep in New Zealand rugby
at the moment, and some of that Braden you'll say
has missed out in Hoskin. So Tutu, who I don't know,
(08:51):
has actually had a great MPC. In all honesty is
has made the cart and you know there's a lot
of questions around that too.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Yeah, Hoskins too.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
A lot of talk about him, isn't there with a
kid at Iwana putting up his Instagram posts saying basically
should deflict to England's and look that the avenue is
open to him. He hasn't played for the All Blacks
now for what two years, and so could very well
be eligible for England or feed you down the line.
(09:20):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the
All Blacks fifteen is not a capture team now, so
it doesn't affect his eligibility. It's a wee bit of
a step forward for Hoskins making this team because he
didn't last year the All Blacks fifteen. But I really
don't see him cracking that All Blacks team anytime soon.
(09:43):
From the conversations I've had behind the scenes, I think
they the All Blecks haven't been impressed like you with
what he's done during the NPC, and they wanted to
see more of the feedback around what he does off
the ball has worked great despite being the Super Rugby
MVP this year. So a step forward and making this team,
(10:05):
but I don't think it's going to enough be enough
to keep him and his on rugby. Just a couple
of other quick points there. Kenny Naholo really rewarded for form.
He's been in great touch for Tartanuki, very consistent, strong
over the ball, big presence in the finishing department and
Josh Jacob very much the future at number ten.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
He is tough man.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
He took so much punishment at the weekend for Tartanuki
when they went down Ta Wakato in their quarter final.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Was battered, he was bloodied.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
He challenges the line and he's probably gone up or
rung with Bret Cameron's injury. Potentially but very interesting prospect.
Josh Jacob. My understanding was the Crusaders approached him and
he turned them down, which is interesting because he you'd
think he would have gone straight in to start there.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah. Absolutely the talent that he shone last year in
the NBC in twenty twenty three, but then has built
on that in twenty twenty four. I guess the big
challenge it's a big step up from in PC. Didn't
get a lot of opportunities at super rugby level this year,
but to go to attract the All Blacks League this
election on basically on the basis of MPC form and
(11:19):
go right, we want to see you in an All
Blacks fifteen environment playing months to playing Georgia, I think
is a big statement about where they see him and
what kind of path they see potentially for him in
higher honors. The question I was, as you said, turn
down the Crusaders, he's at the Chiefs. How much game
time are you going to get behind Damian McKenzie in
(11:41):
twenty twenty five. That's the real question because he could
just be relegated to the bench again unless they change
things around and Clayton Millan, who's going to be coaching him,
and there's All Blacks fifteen and goes all right, well
Damien you're back to fifteen and Josh Jacom you're playing ten.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It was a very interesting scenario. We're going to touch
on a later around Brick Cameron. But the New Zealand
first five eight stocks compressed and two franchises, the Chiefs
and the Blues. So the Chiefs have McKenzie. Caleb Trusk
has come back playing well for the plenty of this
(12:19):
year and Josh Jacob so he's by no means Jacob
A Locke as the even the secondary playmaker at the Chiefs.
But I don't know, I knows the young father, so
maybe that played into his thinking in.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Terms of he's got a second on the wor I
think as well.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Being close to home and the neck and it is
a great story. He's a guy that's genuinely emerged from
grass roots. He could have gone to taking a chance,
gone to christ Church as a starting playmaker. But as
we've discussed on this pod many times, Richie Muonger odds
on to potentially come home potentially for the All Blacks
(12:54):
next year, maybe.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
The Crusaders the year after.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Where does that lead McKenzie unsure so, but from if
you take a step back from a wider context than
Super Rugby, the Blues, Stephen Peterfeitzter, Harry plum Boden, Barrett's
Zan Sullivan, they are stacked and so are the Chiefs
and the Crusaders. Hilanders and Canes are scrapping for playmakers.
So everyone would love to get their hands on Josh Jacob.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
In an ideal scenario, you'd have them spread out across
the five franchises and they're playing off every week against
each other. I mean, the Crusaders are in back the
time they had Mertons and Major and Carter and whoever else,
stayed about five of them and they're all playing various
positions in the back line.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Come off the bench coinslated to go to the Landers.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah. So, I mean it's happened before. You'd love to
see it perhaps spread around it and then you genuinely
get to see those players. I mean of draft format
or something similar might enable that, but it's not the
contract system we have at the moment.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I think it's probably time we had a conversation about
a genuine super rugby salary cap, because there is one,
but it is deemed irrelevant when teams like the Blues
have such superior finance backing and they can put massive
third party payment options in front of players that distort
(14:15):
things massively and leave other franchises they can't compete. So
the NRL that as a real success that the talent
has to spread. You look at the Panthers, they won
a title and every year some of their biggest superstars
have to go elsewhere because they can't allfer under the cap.
(14:35):
Jerome Leuey is going next year, so super raguey salary
cap doesn't really work. And until that is looked at,
you are going to have these pockets of depth within
the franchises and other ones missing out.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, to be honest, I think they should go back
to the days of the protected draft where you and
it's different now because it doesn't feed in from the
provincial unions like they used to, but you could protect
x number of players from your provincial catchment area and
then all those other players went back into a pool
and could be moved out to the other five franchises,
(15:12):
and the squads are bigger now. The contracting systems different.
You're contracted directly via the Super Ugby franchises, not the
provincial unions. But that would level the playing field quite considerable.
If you could, say, protect twenty eight players from your
catchment area or whatever it might be, and then everyone
else is up for grabs. That would make some tricky
decisions and it would mean players would be more likely
(15:35):
to move around for opportunities. But again, this is not
the contracting system we have and it's not the world
we live in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
No it's not.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
But things change and we have to get the new
Super Rugby boss on closer to the season and put
them under the girl.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I used to love the draft and finding out who
had gone where, and you know whiching PC players had
suddenly moved to various other parts of the country. Right,
let's move on. We'll get to the NPC shortly. But
the Black Ferns have finished their campaign for season twenty
twenty four w XV with a winover France off the
back of a lost to England, lost to Ireland and
the WXV then a prior loss to England at Twickenham
(16:13):
as well a good win to end the season. Again.
It's a tough French team that had won five of
the last six against New Zealand. But I guess there's
a lot of questions around this team where they are
at ten months out from a Rugby World Cup in
England next year. Now, England were pushed pretty hard by
Canada and that final yesterday and Canada had to lead
in the second spell. But I think on most days
(16:34):
England's to be honest, fifteen to twenty points better than
most other teams in world rugby at the moment and
women's rugby, but still New Zealand need to close that
gap if it all possible to mount our World Cup
surge for next year. So what have you seen out
of the Black Funds, out of this tournament and where
do you think they're at ten months out from next
year's World Cup.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It's a tricky question that I think this tournaments is
a line in the sand about where they are and
it has been a disappointment. It was good finish the
second half in particular, they came over the top of
the French and rarely put them to the So.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
They are very committed to.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
The Wayne Smith type blueprint of using the ball attacking
and that comes with a lot of risk and reward.
I think they can score a lot of points, but
defensively there are some real concerns there. I think they
conceded was it seven tries against England and you're never
going to win a Test match conceding that many points,
so that's one massive area of improvement. I think they
(17:34):
finished fourth with a one one to win two loss record,
lost to Ireland for the first time, who improved massively,
so women's rugby on the whole was probably getting more competitive.
Ireland the big movers there Canada, as you mentioned, pushed
England who have won I think twenty games in succession now,
(17:58):
so they are the standard bearers. But it's a massive
challenge for the Black Ferns to improve now because I
think they did improve and this level of opposition is
so important and their lead into the World Cup now
is you don't get that same quality of opponents. They
(18:19):
come back, they play alpacky and then I think it's
into the pack for and really your strongest competition there
is Canada. And so you're not going to play England
again before the World Cup, You're not going to play
France who probably come back to the pack a bit.
And so how much are they going to improve in
that next ten months.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
There's not a lot of time is there they'll play
obviously you'd think of Lauri or Rder. Game's Australia who
have improved. Actually they won WX two and look to
be improving under their coach Joe Yap but there's still
you would think a big gulf between New Zealand and Australia.
Having never lost to the Willa Rus I think there's
still some selection issues around this team. They don't quite
(19:01):
know the best mix in crucial positions or big best
selections in crucial positions. I thought that the Atana will
hire a half back. Yesterday was very very good. My
Joseph struggled a little bit against the preciure that England
and Ireland put on her in consecutive weeks. I'm not
sold on Hannah King as a test number ten. You've
got the world former World Player of the Year, really
(19:22):
heye demand playing twelve. I'd move her into ten. There's
you know, some other players around midfield that you could
change around Amy to see, hopefully back from concussion and
some other tweaks. The I's don't think they've got that
right playmaking max nineteen and twelve at the moment to
be able to attack wings. Very very good. Caitlin Vahaklos
(19:42):
had a storming season a shea letier and great to
see her back loose. Forwards I think are up there
with some of the best in the world. Very very
fast attacking players. Front row not too bad. Would be
better to have some more depth in the props. I
think so there are, but there are key positions and
I think it's if you can sort out that nineteen
and twelve and get confidence in your playmaking access around
(20:03):
that point in the game, then they'll take another step forward.
But I think that op key competition is canna be
very very interesting around that.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yes, it's a great point.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
The inexperience in the halves isn't it's it's such a
massive step up from Alpaky to the test arena, particularly
against the lights of England and Canada, and you only
learn by doing, and so that those will be valuable experiences.
But yeah, ro had to demand still hugely influential from twelve.
Sylvia Brunt just absolutely exceptional talent. Saw somebody call her
(20:37):
you know, you don't have to make comparisons, but people
do ineably do that, you know, the mananu of the
of the of the woman's game. She's a phenomenal talent.
I was still only in her early twenties. But you're right,
they need to sort out that halves access and probably
commit to a couple of players pick and stick, give
them the next ten months to develop, because so important
(21:01):
to get those that access right.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And certainly is and Opaky forms a very very interesting
part of the selections next year as well. With that
on the line NPC semifinals sets and a couple of upsets.
How good Canterbury back from the deads two weeks ago
lost to Harbor by sixty points. Now out revenge on
(21:26):
little brother Tasman. How good is that with a very
good performance from Canterbury. Didn't see it coming, thought they
might have been able to get the wind just given
Tasman's got a few injuries. Even black Head are out injured,
so questioned there around the All Blacks for him potentially
in the Crusaders. Canterbury had some players back from the
Crusaders but also from the All Blacks as well, so
(21:48):
good win for them. Taranaki maybe a bit of Ranfillly
shield hangover there on Saturday night against Wakatto. But look,
a couple of upsets, which is what you want from
the NPC quarter finals unless you're the top set of texts.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Look, I think this has been a fantastic competition this
year and we will touch on it later in terms
of the rules, but just the style of rugby that
the use of the ball, the pace, the intense the
unpredictability of it. It really has been exceptional to watch.
So that's the first point. The second is that the
(22:25):
returning All Blacks have had a massive impact.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Canterbury were hugely impressive.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
The guys that made a massive difference with them Sun
to a degree where Fletch Newell came back because the
Canterbury front row had struggled scrum time, George Bell, Sam Dowry.
Those All Blacks came back and had a big impact.
But I don't know whether the All Blacks will be
available this weekend. Most of them will travel this week
(22:53):
to go to Japan, so it's gonna be interesting to
see what teams come out next weekend and other guys.
Luke Jacobson was huge for Wakato both defensively and at
the breakdown and their upset of Tartanaki. So it is
really telling to see those All Blacks come back effectively
two rungs down from from Test footy and you know,
(23:15):
really assert their authority. But yeah, I think the renfoody
shield hangovers were real for Tasman and Taranaki and it
sets up to mighty cought semi finals this weekend with
the bop our Man Mark Kelly will be storming around
in his jersey as they take on your beloveds Canterbury
(23:38):
and oh sorry our Wellington.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Sorry yeah, our.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Wellington prior place yeap hosts Wato. So very intriguing semi finals.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
They are, indeed, Yeah, and good news for Plenty. They
win the Battle of the Bay for the years, so
they get to call themselves the real Bay for another
twelve months. I think that's right.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yeah, that's it. So we're gonna have to get who's
gonna win those semis? What's the final?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, I was asked about this when I did head
on the Country spot break. It depends on the teams rarely,
because we don't think you all blacks are going to play,
which would hurt can to bring and it would hurt
White Katso and it would hurt Wellington as well with
Ti Japetan AA Billy Proctor, so it really does change
things around. I'm going to give it to the basis
(24:26):
of the home teams, probably Wellington Bay Plenty final, but
I don't think there's much an either semi final at
this point in time. I'm just going to give to
the home teams on the basis of that.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, I think look, if Canterbury can play like they
did last weekend, they will be incredibly difficult to stop.
Just we shout out to Billy Harmon. Wow, what a
performance and what a loss he is going to be
to New Zealand Rugby. He was phenomenal, ball in hand, defense, breakdown,
(24:55):
just relentless and huge loss for the Highlanders.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
For Canterbury, he's going to Japan.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
He's a guy that's been on the cusp of the
All Blacks for a number of years and you spoke
about the loose for depth, but him and Brandon Ian
all were really good.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I was actually thinking that yesterday when I was watching
that game that in an era when you've got players
that have played a lot of one off tests for
the All Blacks through necessity and various things, that the
fact that Billy Harmon never got an All Blacks cap.
I mean, he was his class, he was there in
the tour in twenty twenty two. Is you know, it's
a real shame because he is one of the probably
(25:30):
in the modern era, i'd say, one of the best
players not to get an All Blacks jersey.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, very very unsung, So very interesting to see how
those teams shake down. I will I can't tip Canterbury,
so will go bop and I think regardless of the teams,
I expect Wellington to beat Waikato. But it is also
great to see a guy like Aaron Cruden finishing his
career playing provincial forty, giving back, having a real influence.
(25:59):
Even you know the drop goal I think it was
was a park Excavage. Yeah good, almost forty meta drop
kit Cruden. I saw a postmatch interview with Cook Savage
and he said that Cruden called for that earlier and
then that was the second crack. He called him caught
or said he was calling the play. So the thing
his body's hanging on by three. But great to see
(26:21):
a form more All Black like that having a massive
impact on a provincial team.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Indeed, before we take a quick break, this has been
bubbling around for a few months, and it was already
around two or three months back, but now it's come
back around again that France planning to send say a
development team down to New Zealand for the three Tests
against the All Blacks next year. We've seen various headlines
saying the All Blacks are wild or whatever about it.
(26:48):
How do you feel about that, The fact that France
are likely to send a development team perhaps missing you know,
the likes of Antonin du Pont and perhaps various other
players there. I mean, it does depend on when they're
finals and who makes that final in the top fourteen.
But the writing teams on the wall that they're going
to send a weekend team down to New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Think it's a disgrace. I think it makes a mockery
of the test game. You know, how would the French
feel if the All Blacks scent the All Blacks fifteen
to France to Paris in November instead of the top
line team. Look from a selling point point of view,
(27:29):
how great would it be to have Antone DuPont down here?
Speaker 4 (27:32):
And in terms of.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
His career as well, he needs to travel be the
country well, unless he's going to the NFL or Yeah,
it's just a great shame because it would be an
amazing series having France here, the best of the best
that French rugby has to offer. But they are very
much beholden to their clubs and I think there's been
(27:55):
a new deal done there and it is also nothing new.
They have been doing this for a number of years.
They did it when they went to Argentina this year.
But it's a great frustration just from a.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Crudibility.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I think Test rugby is the pinnacle and you want
the best of the best, and it just sucks the
life out of that series, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Well. I just don't know why they've flagged at twelve
months in advance thereabouts. You know. I think it's probably
New Zealand Rugby's this year is that they've actually gone
out and said we're not sending our best down there.
And then so New Zealand Rugby early next year is
going to have to announce that they're playing these tests
in Duneden or Hamilton or Wellington or Auckland or wherever
(28:37):
it might be and go come and see the All Blacks.
They're playing a whole bunch of French players that you've
never heard of. And that's the thing is with that
announced it when they did their squad three weeks out
from traveling, go you actually not seending upon then it's
a bit more powerful. But to advertise twelve months out
or whatever that you're not sending your best players down
I think is it does hurt Test rugby and that's
(29:01):
something that World Rugby needs to fix. But they're powerless, powerless,
I don't know that they don't seem to want to
do anything. I don't know, the necessarily powerless, they just
don't seem like actually doing anything half the time.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well, I wonder how it would go down if the
French decided to pull their players out of a Six
Nations game in Dublin or ticking them at the windows.
Mean that it doesn't that there's not the same clashes there,
but it's the same issue as and it shows how
fragmented the game is still that the top fourteen is prioritized.
(29:37):
And look in this part of the world, it's very
easy to get blase about that because you don't see
those events. If you know how passionate French fans are
about the top fourteen and how important and how.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's a great competition, I'm sure if we could watch it.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing that the genuine passion, you know,
flears going off the buses, arriving fandom is alive in
the French game. But to prioritize the top fourteen over
the test game as a real slap in the face.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Well it's what international. But what's What's what rugby union's
got as an advantage over rugby league is the international game,
because the international game rugby league is a joke. So
you've got that and when you start prioritizing the club
game over it. That's what they've done in the NRAL,
it's what they've done another thing, you know, the Super
League to extend as well, and then the international game
(30:28):
becomes an afterthought and you just don't want to go
too far down that track. But there's not much New
Zealand Rugby can do about it. I mean, you know,
you could play a three match North versus South series
or whatever and that would probably fill the stadiums, but
you've got to take France and you know, deal with
the consequences of not selling out stadiums presumably.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, it's it's gonna be a tough sell and there
is absolutely nothing New Zealand Rugby can do about it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Quick break, come back with more afters.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Every try try ten sixty sec, every tackle tackles get
up again.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Every league.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Him before times.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
It's Ruggy Direct, ladies.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
You're back with Rugby Direct. Time now for our final four.
It's time to catch up on a few of the
things that have missed over the last couple of weeks,
Number one, James O'Connor signed with the Crusaders. He'll lead
them back to the Promised Land in twenty twenty five.
What do you make of the signing, Well.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
I look forward to you eating your words on that,
just quietly. Look, I think it's a good signing for
the Crusaders and the context of what they've got.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Rivers, Rayhanna and who else have.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
So very on both of them, super regular, exactly very green,
unproven first fives. As we mentioned, the Crusaders tried for
Josh Jacob, so clearly Colin Mainsbridge and the Crusaders recruitment
department have been reading the Herald because I did a
column in June this year saying James O'Connor, Josh Jacob,
(32:11):
Aaron Cruden should be on the Crusaders wish list. Cruden's
going to retire, so very limited options there. Look, he's
not gonna solve the Crusaders first five crisis, but he
is a very experienced heads and he will be a
great mentor for those players. He's a guy that could
(32:32):
you can bring off the bench in the last quarter
and control the match. So I think he's a decent pickup.
He's not a problem solver. He's not a long term prospect.
This is a one year thing and the Crusaders are
likely to have Rich and Wonga back after that.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It is a stop gap measure, no doubt about that.
I think it's a good signing. Look, he's grown up
a bit from press the wild child that maybe he
was a decade or so ago, has matured significantly, become
a very very good player and I think could still
help out the Wallabies in all honesty. In fact, I
think what three years I think since his last play
(33:07):
he's got New Zealand peris maybe an all Blacks disease
in the offering for James O'Connor.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Well, Look, the only other point I'd make is maybe
Somerset Holmes could sponsor the Crusaders because it's becoming a
bit of a retirement village, isn't it. Lee half Penny,
Jared Payne, James O'Connor, who's.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Next tard he cut Willie Hines. Yeah, bring him back
for next year. I did see as well last week
on Wellington called Drug Report, that Kyle Preston, the Wellington
half back, is someone with the Crusaders for next season,
so Brigian, but it's Hotham, Drummonds and in Kyle Preston
as their three half backs. Question number two, sticking with
(33:48):
the first fives, Brick Cameron suffering that injury for Mana
with two acl out for what nine months? Who's going
to miss the entirety of Super rugby the Hurricanes This
is We talked about it earlier, earlier in the first
half of the podcast, that there's not a lot of
first fives and they're all truncated into the top half
of the North Island. So what do the Hurricanes do now?
(34:11):
I was watching our colleagues at the Breakdown a couple
of weeks ago in Isaac Boss suggested that cam Rougard
could play ten. He's worked a weave it with him
around I think counties, junior levels or something like that.
Maybe is cam Roygard the answer for the Hurricanes at ten?
You got Jordia Ville unit nine.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
It's all coming to look no, no, he's not leave
cam ruyguard at half back and he can just assume
a lot more responsibility.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Look as a massive blow.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Brett Cameron didn't perform very well in the semi final
that the Hurricanes lost, got a bit found out in
that matched, but he is a very steady hand and
he knows how to control a game. His kicking game
is very educated and he had a big impact on
the Hurricanes, So massive blow for him and the Hurricanes.
(35:01):
I think they're going to have to turn to Ruben
Love at ten, which is not ideal because his best
at fullback. He played ten through high school for Pumpston
North Boys High so he has a lot of experience there.
And when Jason Hollan was coach, he rotated Aiden Morgan
and Rubin Love basically for a whole season at ten,
(35:24):
which didn't work for the Hurricanes, but so Rubin Love
has some experience at ten. There are other options are
Harry Godfrey, who's predominantly played fullback for Hawk's Bay but
does have First five experience, and I think the Hurricanes
have also signed Lucas cashmore Bay Plenty Prospects, who has
been with the Blues but is green as well. So,
(35:45):
as you mentioned, as we touched on very limited options
with the Chiefs and Blues stockpiling their tens. Oh how
the Canes would love to get their hands on Josh
Jacob or Stephen Petefetter, but yeah, big setback for them,
I think a little. One of the fans of the
pod actually messaged me to say that the Canes have
(36:06):
apparently signed.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Cade Bank from Harbo from Harbor.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
But yeah, he's not going to play ten either, So
that's that's not going to sell Bret Cameron's absence.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
No, it's not. You mentioned Oar and crew didn't couldn't
tempt him to go for another trip around the block.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Well, he sent me worth a phone call. He is
in the James O'Connor mold, isn't he. He's not a
guy that would be starting week and week out. His
body wouldn't last the distance. But yeah, what a guy
to have in your squad to be able to bring
off the bench.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
So yeah, i'd give him a call.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
They don't have Jordi Barrett either. Of course the next
season going to Leinster on that sabbatical deal. He's played
test met rugby at ten. Could have moved him into ten.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, Well he actually does, or did prior to Brett
Cameron's or over a lot of that back line organization.
So if you move Reuben Love to ten, then you're
reconfiguring the back three as well. And Jordie's a massive loss.
Bigger loss I would suggest than Ardie severe because of
the way the hurricanes loose forwards have come through. So yeah,
a big setback for Clark laid law there.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Indeed, topic number three. World rugby rule changes continue to
move a step forward, including the twenty minute red card,
which is taking another step forward with World Rugby basically
giving the signature of approval. This has been met with
and we bit of an uproar up North. They're not
huge fans of it, but seems like World Rugby is
(37:30):
intent on making it part of the rules. I think
it's a good move for World Rugby, but I do
think it hasn't been explained that well to how it
works up North, because there's a lot of confusion around oh,
you can bring this player back on after twenty minutes,
No you can't. You have to bring another player, And
I just don't think it's been explained clearly the fact
that's still calling it a twenty minute red card when
the red card full red card still exists as just
(37:53):
an optics and clarity issue. You should go in an
orange card or similar or an injection card, player rejection,
whatever it might be. But Ultimately, I think this is
a good thing for rugby union that yes, you're looking
after the head contact that you need to look after
and applying discipline around that and applying sanctions, but you're
also keeping the game of context at contests because you
(38:15):
think about the number of red cards that have happened
over last decade versus the ninety years of test mat
drugging before it.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, I think the key point there is that the
actual full red card is still available, and like you say,
that needs to be explained because if there is an
act of thuggery or a really bad tackle, then that
option is still available.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
So it's the best of both worlds.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
You're protecting the entertainment product and let's get real that
rugby's big business now and that need the credibility of
the contests does need to be preserved, and that's what
this does. So I think World Rugby the penny is
finally dropping. They do still have to vote on it
in November, so as we've seen World Rugby and present
(39:02):
your elections and all sorts of wheeling and dealing behind
the scenes, things can change, but it does seem like
there has been positive progression here, so hopefully that goes
through and just I think it's a nod to the
progression that's happened in the Southern hemisphere and they've been
pushing for this for a number of years. And aside
(39:23):
from the red card, things like shot clocks for kicking,
that the mall is only allowed one stoppage and the
scrums and lineouts, basically that the intent to speed up
the game, which is what's happened through Super Rugby this
year with diminishing the TMO influence and the NPC. So
(39:46):
that's been a real catalyst for change, isn't.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
It It has indeed, And yeah, interesting to see attention
now being played up north to that final topic. In
the Final four, Tarmathi Ellison officially leaves the Crusader. It's
not too much surprise there because it seems like it
was destined to happen once the All Blacks made their
coaching changes around that, but he's officially at the Crusaders now.
There was but speculation was basically informed speculation that there
(40:13):
was basically a two year stopgap that Rob Penny was
going to coach the Crusaders twenty twenty four to twenty
twenty five and Thomasy Allison would come in from twenty
twenty six. Now, whether that was in rising, whether it
was just presumed, whatever it was, that's not going to
happen now from twenty twenty six. So the Crusaders, having
lost Scott Robertson, Scott Hansen, Jason Ryan previously to that,
have now lost Tomoty Allison and so any thoughts around
(40:37):
a succession plan now out the window. So what do
the Crusaders do to this point? It gives them a
clean slate, I guess, But what's your feeling around where
they're going to go from here?
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Who knows?
Speaker 3 (40:49):
There's real instability there isn't there? Because Rob Penny was well,
certainly externally was on a knife edge of being chopped.
I don't think that was ever going to happen from
a Crusaders perspective, but dire seasoned by a Crusader standards
this year, so he's under pressure to perform in the
final year of his contract and I don't think they
(41:10):
at this point would know where they're going to go
beyond that. As you mentioned, somebody Ellison was earmarked, he
was odds on to take over.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Now who now, where do they go?
Speaker 3 (41:18):
There's whispers about Leo McDonald popping up an Australian rugby.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
I don't think he would come back to.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Super rugby as it is so Yeah, real instability and uncertainty.
So maybe just sign Rob Pinny up for five years.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Well, look, he's got James O'Connor next year and may
all come together for Rob in the Crusaders in twenty
twenty five. And this may be a moot discussion. Maybe
you're saying that with a smile. I'm trying to get
a lifetime deal in twenty twenty five to go until
I pop my clogs. I'm going to be coaching the Crusaders.
But let's say is not there's not many head coaches
(41:55):
at the moment putting their hands up. I don't think
internally in New Zealand rugby from the Crusaders, I will
think at maybe like you, guy like Neil Barnes to
come down and coach h he's older than Rob Penny.
But perhaps someone like Kim could come in.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
Colin Cooper's flow.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
It feels like the future exactly that Richard Watt's done
a really good job with plenty of this year. But again,
a guy that's been around a.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Long, long time.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Indeed, Ross Felippo is a coach that I think has
got ammense promise.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
He was certainly in the discussions for the Crusades. I
would say he is actually the leading candidate that that
that that they would go after. But the Chief's going
to let him go because he is a real talent
and highly regarded both with what he's done with Waikato
and the Chiefs, and he's now with New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
Maldi so clearly.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Identified from a high performance perspective with the New Zealand Rugby.
So I was if I was the Crusaders, I'll be
going all in on Ross.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
It's interesting, isn't it. I guess he've still got a
bit of water to go on the bridge as to
how twenty twenty five plays out.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
And Robbie you trust man, we do.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
That'll do us for Rugby Directs this week for your
company again suing with the end of year tour looming.
That has been Rugby Direct with Forklift Solutions lifting you
and your business to a higher level. I thanks as
always to last and Bars English. We'll catch you next time.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
For more from News talkst B, listen live on air
or online and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio,
You're listening to a podcast from news Talks EDB. Follow
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Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliot Smith powered by news talks ITB.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome in to Rugby Direct powered by Fourklift Solutions, lifting
you and your business to a high level. After a
week where we were rested and rotated out of the
podcast line up, Liam, we are back, refreshed and ready
to go and there is plenty to dig into in
the rugby world. As always, Greetings once again.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Greetings, yes, and congratulations are in order for the elliotts
Smith family. Yes, your sister a new addition to the world.
Congratulations on being an uncle to young Imagen. So it
must have been a special occasion and crush church very special.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, lovely to meet me Imagen and very very exciting
times for us. So it's been a pretty special week.
So good to having you podcast listener as well. I'm
sure it's Jesus to get them young and on the
podcast train with rag the Direct.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Look, there's Rugby Direct fans mini populated out in the community.
I was at a birthday party over the weekend Japanese theme.
There were summer wrestling Tipanyaki and met some fans of
the Pods. Shout out to Miles Andrews. Unfortunately he's another
christ Church bloke. He attended the Razor did a fundraiser
(01:36):
at the Summer Rugby Club which she attended and turned
up to this party as a karate kid and we
just happened to be in the same outfit and he
was telling me what a fan is of the Pod, So, oh,
they just can't get away from it, mate, There's fans everywhere.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, I believe Scott Robinson did do that thing in Sumner.
A good friend of mine, Daniel Bell, was doing them singh.
So I'm intrigued to hear what raisors thoughts were on that.
But well, a week you going out, Razor selected his
all Blacks and all Blacks of Fiends squads and a
little bit from his selectors and clad McMillan in the
as well. I guess it's been a week you've had
(02:14):
the chance to let it soak him. What were the
takeaways for you from that all black squad?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, I guess probably one of the most predictable Northern
tour squads in history. There weren't a lot of headline
takeaways were there. Cam Ruga great to see him back
and well first of all to come back and what
an impression he's made straight off the back. Came off
the bench for Counties, scored two tries, one with a
(02:40):
trademark dummy and then started last weekend and Wellington as
Counties lost their quarter final. So the one change to
the squads, I.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Wrote something for the Heralds last week.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
My hope was that that squad would be more picked
with developments, not necessarily front and center, but more more
of casting ahead to the future. Guys like Peter Luckeye
I wanted to see in that squads. No hope them
(03:17):
I would have had in there over TJ. Peanara, but
Rays has been very consistent and conservative for me in
terms of maintaining that level of experience and carrying guys
as long as he wants, and I guess it probably
reflects that he's feeling the heat that doesn't he because
it is going to be a very grueling stretch this
India tour, the England's, France and Ireland those three tests
(03:43):
and fifteen days currently six and three, so there's no
regal room in terms of results, and for me, that
squad really did reflect the fact he's feeling that the
heats in his first year as head coached.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, I don't think he feels he's got the rope
to be able to bring out at Peter Luckeye, or
to be able to bring in some younger players and
get them on the road to twenty twenty seven. It's
focused on the here and now and winning these test matches.
And you know, we'll probably touch on it a wee
bit later. But the French, with the sounding that they
won't send a top squad down to New Zealand next year,
(04:14):
perhaps gives them the opportunity to bring in some of
those players next year, perhaps earlier than they may have considered.
So maybe they're sort of balancing those two things out.
But I just don't think there's the rope there to
be tinkering with too many selections. And I think you're right,
there is the pressure that comes with the All Blacks
job and the pressure that with having three losses already
(04:34):
in this tenure is feeling. So I don't think it
was a surprise that there weren't many changes. Peter luck
I said, a good season for Wellington before that the Hurricanes.
He could have been a player that comes in, but
I just don't think there was too much room to
bring in too many other players. And that's where I
suppose you look at the All Blacks fifteen and go, well,
if there's injuries, these are the players that are going
(04:54):
to be called in, and the All Blacks fifteen squad
with a wee bit of a nod to the future,
but at times also a look back as well. You know,
Ricky Ricketteally is somehow not in the top six hookers
in the country, which is stagger and you go, okay, well,
maybe they're looking to the future. But then Kurt Eckland,
who's older than Rocky Rittelly, is in the squad. They
gone with you. Bridie McCallister out of the Crusader's Bradley
(05:17):
Slater out of Tartanaki, Rocky Rocketell he's Taranaki teammate as well,
So there are some eyebrow raising selections there as well.
But if you're Ricky Ricottelly, you're probably going, well, how
am I not in the top six sockers in the
country when I started for the Super Rugby Champions.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And Eklund on the bench for the whole of the
Blues championship. The Blues lineout was by far and away
the best in the competition. I think it was eighty
nine percent this year. You know, he's not a damaging
ball carrier by any stretcher, Ricktell. He probably lacks a
bit of punch with ball in hands, but he's busy.
(05:54):
His lineout throwing is very effective, and that is an
area of concern for the All Blacks. Behind Cody Taylor,
George Bell and Asafa Armore not noted lineout throwers, and
yeah behind them, I think Bradley Slater deputizes for Rica
Telly in Tartanucky, so that was one very perplexing selection.
(06:18):
Other guys that are unlucky to miss the cat Braden
Yossi very good for the Hurricanes this year and has
performed well for a struggling mun Or two falal Fuckatava.
The aor Blecks fifteen only have two half backs. He's
gone backwards in quite a big way, but I thought
has actually performed quite well for Hawk's Bay this year
and then the midfield to a degree as well. Daniel
(06:40):
Rohn has been very good for Taranuki but look, I
think it's fair to say that the All Blacks coaching
team raiser largely packed the All Blacks fifteen, and that's
what you'd expect, And I am intrigued to see how
those squads interact, how many players shift in between those
(07:01):
two teams, and probably what effect that has on the
or Blecks fifteen more than anything, because the All Blacks
of name thirty six players coming and going can be
a bit destabilizing, particularly when you're only going to be
in You're only playing two matches with the All Blacks fifteen.
So just how many of those players go to Japan
(07:21):
and get mixed and match throughout that tour.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, indeed, that's the interesting thing. And what chances they get.
It's obviously only two games, so you'd suspect that everyone's
probably going to get one start. Maybe if you look
at that, perhaps apart from the props and hookers in
front rows, they're probably likely to mix and match some
of those selections for the Monster game and the Georgia game.
No Jacob brother my Tovurki Neepkins question whether he would
(07:46):
have hopefully been there. I think he's been very very
good for Taranaki this year before he suffered that neck injury,
which sounds pretty serious and lucky it was caught as
well by the doctors. After that ran fairly shield challenge
against Tasman the week prior. He missed out on the squad,
but we don't know whether he would have been in there,
Shawn Stevenson. The drums are beating. It's you know, a
(08:06):
lot of rumors going around at the moment that he's
Warriors bound in twenty twenty five. This could be his
last hourrah in rugby union as well. Nothing confirmed on
that front as well, But it's an intriguing squad because
the mixed match of players of youth I said before,
but also some of those players that have been in
the All Blacks in modern adawa and then come out
of it again, you know Dallas McLeod in last year
(08:30):
out again. So Brandon also can consider himself very very unlucky.
But there is a lot of depth at loose Ford
at the moment as a whole, not necessarily in specific jusies,
but I think if you go look at the loose
Ford stocks that are pretty deep in New Zealand rugby
at the moment, and some of that Braden you'll say
has missed out in Hoskin. So Tutu, who I don't know,
(08:51):
has actually had a great MPC. In all honesty is
has made the cart and you know there's a lot
of questions around that too.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Yeah, Hoskins too.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
A lot of talk about him, isn't there with a
kid at Iwana putting up his Instagram posts saying basically
should deflict to England's and look that the avenue is
open to him. He hasn't played for the All Blacks
now for what two years, and so could very well
be eligible for England or feed you down the line.
(09:20):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the
All Blacks fifteen is not a capture team now, so
it doesn't affect his eligibility. It's a wee bit of
a step forward for Hoskins making this team because he
didn't last year the All Blacks fifteen. But I really
don't see him cracking that All Blacks team anytime soon.
(09:43):
From the conversations I've had behind the scenes, I think
they the All Blecks haven't been impressed like you with
what he's done during the NPC, and they wanted to
see more of the feedback around what he does off
the ball has worked great despite being the Super Rugby
MVP this year. So a step forward and making this team,
(10:05):
but I don't think it's going to enough be enough
to keep him and his on rugby. Just a couple
of other quick points there. Kenny Naholo really rewarded for form.
He's been in great touch for Tartanuki, very consistent, strong
over the ball, big presence in the finishing department and
Josh Jacob very much the future at number ten.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
He is tough man.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
He took so much punishment at the weekend for Tartanuki
when they went down Ta Wakato in their quarter final.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Was battered, he was bloodied.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
He challenges the line and he's probably gone up or
rung with Bret Cameron's injury. Potentially but very interesting prospect.
Josh Jacob. My understanding was the Crusaders approached him and
he turned them down, which is interesting because he you'd
think he would have gone straight in to start there.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah. Absolutely the talent that he shone last year in
the NBC in twenty twenty three, but then has built
on that in twenty twenty four. I guess the big
challenge it's a big step up from in PC. Didn't
get a lot of opportunities at super rugby level this year,
but to go to attract the All Blacks League this
election on basically on the basis of MPC form and
(11:19):
go right, we want to see you in an All
Blacks fifteen environment playing months to playing Georgia, I think
is a big statement about where they see him and
what kind of path they see potentially for him in
higher honors. The question I was, as you said, turn
down the Crusaders, he's at the Chiefs. How much game
time are you going to get behind Damian McKenzie in
(11:41):
twenty twenty five. That's the real question because he could
just be relegated to the bench again unless they change
things around and Clayton Millan, who's going to be coaching him,
and there's All Blacks fifteen and goes all right, well
Damien you're back to fifteen and Josh Jacom you're playing ten.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
It was a very interesting scenario. We're going to touch
on a later around Brick Cameron. But the New Zealand
first five eight stocks compressed and two franchises, the Chiefs
and the Blues. So the Chiefs have McKenzie. Caleb Trusk
has come back playing well for the plenty of this
(12:19):
year and Josh Jacob so he's by no means Jacob
A Locke as the even the secondary playmaker at the Chiefs.
But I don't know, I knows the young father, so
maybe that played into his thinking in.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Terms of he's got a second on the wor I
think as well.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Being close to home and the neck and it is
a great story. He's a guy that's genuinely emerged from
grass roots. He could have gone to taking a chance,
gone to christ Church as a starting playmaker. But as
we've discussed on this pod many times, Richie Muonger odds
on to potentially come home potentially for the All Blacks
(12:54):
next year, maybe.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
The Crusaders the year after.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Where does that lead McKenzie unsure so, but from if
you take a step back from a wider context than
Super Rugby, the Blues, Stephen Peterfeitzter, Harry plum Boden, Barrett's
Zan Sullivan, they are stacked and so are the Chiefs
and the Crusaders. Hilanders and Canes are scrapping for playmakers.
So everyone would love to get their hands on Josh Jacob.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
In an ideal scenario, you'd have them spread out across
the five franchises and they're playing off every week against
each other. I mean, the Crusaders are in back the
time they had Mertons and Major and Carter and whoever else,
stayed about five of them and they're all playing various
positions in the back line.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Come off the bench coinslated to go to the Landers.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah. So, I mean it's happened before. You'd love to
see it perhaps spread around it and then you genuinely
get to see those players. I mean of draft format
or something similar might enable that, but it's not the
contract system we have at the moment.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I think it's probably time we had a conversation about
a genuine super rugby salary cap, because there is one,
but it is deemed irrelevant when teams like the Blues
have such superior finance backing and they can put massive
third party payment options in front of players that distort
(14:15):
things massively and leave other franchises they can't compete. So
the NRL that as a real success that the talent
has to spread. You look at the Panthers, they won
a title and every year some of their biggest superstars
have to go elsewhere because they can't allfer under the cap.
(14:35):
Jerome Leuey is going next year, so super raguey salary
cap doesn't really work. And until that is looked at,
you are going to have these pockets of depth within
the franchises and other ones missing out.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, to be honest, I think they should go back
to the days of the protected draft where you and
it's different now because it doesn't feed in from the
provincial unions like they used to, but you could protect
x number of players from your provincial catchment area and
then all those other players went back into a pool
and could be moved out to the other five franchises,
(15:12):
and the squads are bigger now. The contracting systems different.
You're contracted directly via the Super Ugby franchises, not the
provincial unions. But that would level the playing field quite considerable.
If you could, say, protect twenty eight players from your
catchment area or whatever it might be, and then everyone
else is up for grabs. That would make some tricky
decisions and it would mean players would be more likely
(15:35):
to move around for opportunities. But again, this is not
the contracting system we have and it's not the world
we live in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
No it's not.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
But things change and we have to get the new
Super Rugby boss on closer to the season and put
them under the girl.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I used to love the draft and finding out who
had gone where, and you know whiching PC players had
suddenly moved to various other parts of the country. Right,
let's move on. We'll get to the NPC shortly. But
the Black Ferns have finished their campaign for season twenty
twenty four w XV with a winover France off the
back of a lost to England, lost to Ireland and
the WXV then a prior loss to England at Twickenham
(16:13):
as well a good win to end the season. Again.
It's a tough French team that had won five of
the last six against New Zealand. But I guess there's
a lot of questions around this team where they are
at ten months out from a Rugby World Cup in
England next year. Now, England were pushed pretty hard by
Canada and that final yesterday and Canada had to lead
in the second spell. But I think on most days
(16:34):
England's to be honest, fifteen to twenty points better than
most other teams in world rugby at the moment and
women's rugby, but still New Zealand need to close that
gap if it all possible to mount our World Cup
surge for next year. So what have you seen out
of the Black Funds, out of this tournament and where
do you think they're at ten months out from next
year's World Cup.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
It's a tricky question that I think this tournaments is
a line in the sand about where they are and
it has been a disappointment. It was good finish the
second half in particular, they came over the top of
the French and rarely put them to the So.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
They are very committed to.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
The Wayne Smith type blueprint of using the ball attacking
and that comes with a lot of risk and reward.
I think they can score a lot of points, but
defensively there are some real concerns there. I think they
conceded was it seven tries against England and you're never
going to win a Test match conceding that many points,
so that's one massive area of improvement. I think they
(17:34):
finished fourth with a one one to win two loss record,
lost to Ireland for the first time, who improved massively,
so women's rugby on the whole was probably getting more competitive.
Ireland the big movers there Canada, as you mentioned, pushed
England who have won I think twenty games in succession now,
(17:58):
so they are the standard bearers. But it's a massive
challenge for the Black Ferns to improve now because I
think they did improve and this level of opposition is
so important and their lead into the World Cup now
is you don't get that same quality of opponents. They
(18:19):
come back, they play alpacky and then I think it's
into the pack for and really your strongest competition there
is Canada. And so you're not going to play England
again before the World Cup, You're not going to play
France who probably come back to the pack a bit.
And so how much are they going to improve in
that next ten months.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
There's not a lot of time is there they'll play
obviously you'd think of Lauri or Rder. Game's Australia who
have improved. Actually they won WX two and look to
be improving under their coach Joe Yap but there's still
you would think a big gulf between New Zealand and Australia.
Having never lost to the Willa Rus I think there's
still some selection issues around this team. They don't quite
(19:01):
know the best mix in crucial positions or big best
selections in crucial positions. I thought that the Atana will
hire a half back. Yesterday was very very good. My
Joseph struggled a little bit against the preciure that England
and Ireland put on her in consecutive weeks. I'm not
sold on Hannah King as a test number ten. You've
got the world former World Player of the Year, really
(19:22):
heye demand playing twelve. I'd move her into ten. There's
you know, some other players around midfield that you could
change around Amy to see, hopefully back from concussion and
some other tweaks. The I's don't think they've got that
right playmaking max nineteen and twelve at the moment to
be able to attack wings. Very very good. Caitlin Vahaklos
(19:42):
had a storming season a shea letier and great to
see her back loose. Forwards I think are up there
with some of the best in the world. Very very
fast attacking players. Front row not too bad. Would be
better to have some more depth in the props. I
think so there are, but there are key positions and
I think it's if you can sort out that nineteen
and twelve and get confidence in your playmaking access around
(20:03):
that point in the game, then they'll take another step forward.
But I think that op key competition is canna be
very very interesting around that.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yes, it's a great point.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
The inexperience in the halves isn't it's it's such a
massive step up from Alpaky to the test arena, particularly
against the lights of England and Canada, and you only
learn by doing, and so that those will be valuable experiences.
But yeah, ro had to demand still hugely influential from twelve.
Sylvia Brunt just absolutely exceptional talent. Saw somebody call her
(20:37):
you know, you don't have to make comparisons, but people
do ineably do that, you know, the mananu of the
of the of the woman's game. She's a phenomenal talent.
I was still only in her early twenties. But you're right,
they need to sort out that halves access and probably
commit to a couple of players pick and stick, give
them the next ten months to develop, because so important
(21:01):
to get those that access right.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And certainly is and Opaky forms a very very interesting
part of the selections next year as well. With that
on the line NPC semifinals sets and a couple of upsets.
How good Canterbury back from the deads two weeks ago
lost to Harbor by sixty points. Now out revenge on
(21:26):
little brother Tasman. How good is that with a very
good performance from Canterbury. Didn't see it coming, thought they
might have been able to get the wind just given
Tasman's got a few injuries. Even black Head are out injured,
so questioned there around the All Blacks for him potentially
in the Crusaders. Canterbury had some players back from the
Crusaders but also from the All Blacks as well, so
(21:48):
good win for them. Taranaki maybe a bit of Ranfillly
shield hangover there on Saturday night against Wakatto. But look,
a couple of upsets, which is what you want from
the NPC quarter finals unless you're the top set of texts.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Look, I think this has been a fantastic competition this
year and we will touch on it later in terms
of the rules, but just the style of rugby that
the use of the ball, the pace, the intense the
unpredictability of it. It really has been exceptional to watch.
So that's the first point. The second is that the
(22:25):
returning All Blacks have had a massive impact.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Canterbury were hugely impressive.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
The guys that made a massive difference with them Sun
to a degree where Fletch Newell came back because the
Canterbury front row had struggled scrum time, George Bell, Sam Dowry.
Those All Blacks came back and had a big impact.
But I don't know whether the All Blacks will be
available this weekend. Most of them will travel this week
(22:53):
to go to Japan, so it's gonna be interesting to
see what teams come out next weekend and other guys.
Luke Jacobson was huge for Wakato both defensively and at
the breakdown and their upset of Tartanaki. So it is
really telling to see those All Blacks come back effectively
two rungs down from from Test footy and you know,
(23:15):
really assert their authority. But yeah, I think the renfoody
shield hangovers were real for Tasman and Taranaki and it
sets up to mighty cought semi finals this weekend with
the bop our Man Mark Kelly will be storming around
in his jersey as they take on your beloveds Canterbury
(23:38):
and oh sorry our Wellington.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Sorry yeah, our.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Wellington prior place yeap hosts Wato. So very intriguing semi finals.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
They are, indeed, Yeah, and good news for Plenty. They
win the Battle of the Bay for the years, so
they get to call themselves the real Bay for another
twelve months. I think that's right.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Yeah, that's it. So we're gonna have to get who's
gonna win those semis? What's the final?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, I was asked about this when I did head
on the Country spot break. It depends on the teams rarely,
because we don't think you all blacks are going to play,
which would hurt can to bring and it would hurt
White Katso and it would hurt Wellington as well with
Ti Japetan AA Billy Proctor, so it really does change
things around. I'm going to give it to the basis
(24:26):
of the home teams, probably Wellington Bay Plenty final, but
I don't think there's much an either semi final at
this point in time. I'm just going to give to
the home teams on the basis of that.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah, I think look, if Canterbury can play like they
did last weekend, they will be incredibly difficult to stop.
Just we shout out to Billy Harmon. Wow, what a
performance and what a loss he is going to be
to New Zealand Rugby. He was phenomenal, ball in hand, defense, breakdown,
(24:55):
just relentless and huge loss for the Highlanders.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
For Canterbury, he's going to Japan.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
He's a guy that's been on the cusp of the
All Blacks for a number of years and you spoke
about the loose for depth, but him and Brandon Ian
all were really good.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I was actually thinking that yesterday when I was watching
that game that in an era when you've got players
that have played a lot of one off tests for
the All Blacks through necessity and various things, that the
fact that Billy Harmon never got an All Blacks cap.
I mean, he was his class, he was there in
the tour in twenty twenty two. Is you know, it's
a real shame because he is one of the probably
(25:30):
in the modern era, i'd say, one of the best
players not to get an All Blacks jersey.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, very very unsung, So very interesting to see how
those teams shake down. I will I can't tip Canterbury,
so will go bop and I think regardless of the teams,
I expect Wellington to beat Waikato. But it is also
great to see a guy like Aaron Cruden finishing his
career playing provincial forty, giving back, having a real influence.
(25:59):
Even you know the drop goal I think it was
was a park Excavage. Yeah good, almost forty meta drop
kit Cruden. I saw a postmatch interview with Cook Savage
and he said that Cruden called for that earlier and
then that was the second crack. He called him caught
or said he was calling the play. So the thing
his body's hanging on by three. But great to see
(26:21):
a form more All Black like that having a massive
impact on a provincial team.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Indeed, before we take a quick break, this has been
bubbling around for a few months, and it was already
around two or three months back, but now it's come
back around again that France planning to send say a
development team down to New Zealand for the three Tests
against the All Blacks next year. We've seen various headlines
saying the All Blacks are wild or whatever about it.
(26:48):
How do you feel about that, The fact that France
are likely to send a development team perhaps missing you know,
the likes of Antonin du Pont and perhaps various other
players there. I mean, it does depend on when they're
finals and who makes that final in the top fourteen.
But the writing teams on the wall that they're going
to send a weekend team down to New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Think it's a disgrace. I think it makes a mockery
of the test game. You know, how would the French
feel if the All Blacks scent the All Blacks fifteen
to France to Paris in November instead of the top
line team. Look from a selling point point of view,
(27:29):
how great would it be to have Antone DuPont down here?
Speaker 4 (27:32):
And in terms of.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
His career as well, he needs to travel be the
country well, unless he's going to the NFL or Yeah,
it's just a great shame because it would be an
amazing series having France here, the best of the best
that French rugby has to offer. But they are very
much beholden to their clubs and I think there's been
(27:55):
a new deal done there and it is also nothing new.
They have been doing this for a number of years.
They did it when they went to Argentina this year.
But it's a great frustration just from a.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Crudibility.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I think Test rugby is the pinnacle and you want
the best of the best, and it just sucks the
life out of that series, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Well. I just don't know why they've flagged at twelve
months in advance thereabouts. You know. I think it's probably
New Zealand Rugby's this year is that they've actually gone
out and said we're not sending our best down there.
And then so New Zealand Rugby early next year is
going to have to announce that they're playing these tests
in Duneden or Hamilton or Wellington or Auckland or wherever
(28:37):
it might be and go come and see the All Blacks.
They're playing a whole bunch of French players that you've
never heard of. And that's the thing is with that
announced it when they did their squad three weeks out
from traveling, go you actually not seending upon then it's
a bit more powerful. But to advertise twelve months out
or whatever that you're not sending your best players down
I think is it does hurt Test rugby and that's
(29:01):
something that World Rugby needs to fix. But they're powerless, powerless,
I don't know that they don't seem to want to
do anything. I don't know, the necessarily powerless, they just
don't seem like actually doing anything half the time.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well, I wonder how it would go down if the
French decided to pull their players out of a Six
Nations game in Dublin or ticking them at the windows.
Mean that it doesn't that there's not the same clashes there,
but it's the same issue as and it shows how
fragmented the game is still that the top fourteen is prioritized.
(29:37):
And look in this part of the world, it's very
easy to get blase about that because you don't see
those events. If you know how passionate French fans are
about the top fourteen and how important and how.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's a great competition, I'm sure if we could watch it.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing that the genuine passion, you know,
flears going off the buses, arriving fandom is alive in
the French game. But to prioritize the top fourteen over
the test game as a real slap in the face.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Well it's what international. But what's What's what rugby union's
got as an advantage over rugby league is the international game,
because the international game rugby league is a joke. So
you've got that and when you start prioritizing the club
game over it. That's what they've done in the NRAL,
it's what they've done another thing, you know, the Super
League to extend as well, and then the international game
(30:28):
becomes an afterthought and you just don't want to go
too far down that track. But there's not much New
Zealand Rugby can do about it. I mean, you know,
you could play a three match North versus South series
or whatever and that would probably fill the stadiums, but
you've got to take France and you know, deal with
the consequences of not selling out stadiums presumably.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, it's it's gonna be a tough sell and there
is absolutely nothing New Zealand Rugby can do about it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Quick break, come back with more afters.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Every try try ten sixty sec, every tackle tackles get
up again.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Every league.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Him before times.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
It's Ruggy Direct, ladies.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
You're back with Rugby Direct. Time now for our final four.
It's time to catch up on a few of the
things that have missed over the last couple of weeks,
Number one, James O'Connor signed with the Crusaders. He'll lead
them back to the Promised Land in twenty twenty five.
What do you make of the signing, Well.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
I look forward to you eating your words on that,
just quietly. Look, I think it's a good signing for
the Crusaders and the context of what they've got.
Speaker 4 (31:43):
Rivers, Rayhanna and who else have.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
So very on both of them, super regular, exactly very green,
unproven first fives. As we mentioned, the Crusaders tried for
Josh Jacob, so clearly Colin Mainsbridge and the Crusaders recruitment
department have been reading the Herald because I did a
column in June this year saying James O'Connor, Josh Jacob,
(32:11):
Aaron Cruden should be on the Crusaders wish list. Cruden's
going to retire, so very limited options there. Look, he's
not gonna solve the Crusaders first five crisis, but he
is a very experienced heads and he will be a
great mentor for those players. He's a guy that could
(32:32):
you can bring off the bench in the last quarter
and control the match. So I think he's a decent pickup.
He's not a problem solver. He's not a long term prospect.
This is a one year thing and the Crusaders are
likely to have Rich and Wonga back after that.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It is a stop gap measure, no doubt about that.
I think it's a good signing. Look, he's grown up
a bit from press the wild child that maybe he
was a decade or so ago, has matured significantly, become
a very very good player and I think could still
help out the Wallabies in all honesty. In fact, I
think what three years I think since his last play
(33:07):
he's got New Zealand peris maybe an all Blacks disease
in the offering for James O'Connor.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Well, Look, the only other point I'd make is maybe
Somerset Holmes could sponsor the Crusaders because it's becoming a
bit of a retirement village, isn't it. Lee half Penny,
Jared Payne, James O'Connor, who's.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Next tard he cut Willie Hines. Yeah, bring him back
for next year. I did see as well last week
on Wellington called Drug Report, that Kyle Preston, the Wellington
half back, is someone with the Crusaders for next season,
so Brigian, but it's Hotham, Drummonds and in Kyle Preston
as their three half backs. Question number two, sticking with
(33:48):
the first fives, Brick Cameron suffering that injury for Mana
with two acl out for what nine months? Who's going
to miss the entirety of Super rugby the Hurricanes This
is We talked about it earlier, earlier in the first
half of the podcast, that there's not a lot of
first fives and they're all truncated into the top half
of the North Island. So what do the Hurricanes do now?
(34:11):
I was watching our colleagues at the Breakdown a couple
of weeks ago in Isaac Boss suggested that cam Rougard
could play ten. He's worked a weave it with him
around I think counties, junior levels or something like that.
Maybe is cam Roygard the answer for the Hurricanes at ten?
You got Jordia Ville unit nine.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
It's all coming to look no, no, he's not leave
cam ruyguard at half back and he can just assume
a lot more responsibility.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Look as a massive blow.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Brett Cameron didn't perform very well in the semi final
that the Hurricanes lost, got a bit found out in
that matched, but he is a very steady hand and
he knows how to control a game. His kicking game
is very educated and he had a big impact on
the Hurricanes, So massive blow for him and the Hurricanes.
(35:01):
I think they're going to have to turn to Ruben
Love at ten, which is not ideal because his best
at fullback. He played ten through high school for Pumpston
North Boys High so he has a lot of experience there.
And when Jason Hollan was coach, he rotated Aiden Morgan
and Rubin Love basically for a whole season at ten,
(35:24):
which didn't work for the Hurricanes, but so Rubin Love
has some experience at ten. There are other options are
Harry Godfrey, who's predominantly played fullback for Hawk's Bay but
does have First five experience, and I think the Hurricanes
have also signed Lucas cashmore Bay Plenty Prospects, who has
been with the Blues but is green as well. So,
(35:45):
as you mentioned, as we touched on very limited options
with the Chiefs and Blues stockpiling their tens. Oh how
the Canes would love to get their hands on Josh
Jacob or Stephen Petefetter, but yeah, big setback for them,
I think a little. One of the fans of the
pod actually messaged me to say that the Canes have
(36:06):
apparently signed.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
Cade Bank from Harbo from Harbor.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
But yeah, he's not going to play ten either, So
that's that's not going to sell Bret Cameron's absence.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
No, it's not. You mentioned Oar and crew didn't couldn't
tempt him to go for another trip around the block.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Well, he sent me worth a phone call. He is
in the James O'Connor mold, isn't he. He's not a
guy that would be starting week and week out. His
body wouldn't last the distance. But yeah, what a guy
to have in your squad to be able to bring
off the bench.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
So yeah, i'd give him a call.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
They don't have Jordi Barrett either. Of course the next
season going to Leinster on that sabbatical deal. He's played
test met rugby at ten. Could have moved him into ten.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, Well he actually does, or did prior to Brett
Cameron's or over a lot of that back line organization.
So if you move Reuben Love to ten, then you're
reconfiguring the back three as well. And Jordie's a massive loss.
Bigger loss I would suggest than Ardie severe because of
the way the hurricanes loose forwards have come through. So yeah,
a big setback for Clark laid law there.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Indeed, topic number three. World rugby rule changes continue to
move a step forward, including the twenty minute red card,
which is taking another step forward with World Rugby basically
giving the signature of approval. This has been met with
and we bit of an uproar up North. They're not
huge fans of it, but seems like World Rugby is
(37:30):
intent on making it part of the rules. I think
it's a good move for World Rugby, but I do
think it hasn't been explained that well to how it
works up North, because there's a lot of confusion around oh,
you can bring this player back on after twenty minutes,
No you can't. You have to bring another player, And
I just don't think it's been explained clearly the fact
that's still calling it a twenty minute red card when
the red card full red card still exists as just
(37:53):
an optics and clarity issue. You should go in an
orange card or similar or an injection card, player rejection,
whatever it might be. But Ultimately, I think this is
a good thing for rugby union that yes, you're looking
after the head contact that you need to look after
and applying discipline around that and applying sanctions, but you're
also keeping the game of context at contests because you
(38:15):
think about the number of red cards that have happened
over last decade versus the ninety years of test mat
drugging before it.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, I think the key point there is that the
actual full red card is still available, and like you say,
that needs to be explained because if there is an
act of thuggery or a really bad tackle, then that
option is still available.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
So it's the best of both worlds.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
You're protecting the entertainment product and let's get real that
rugby's big business now and that need the credibility of
the contests does need to be preserved, and that's what
this does. So I think World Rugby the penny is
finally dropping. They do still have to vote on it
in November, so as we've seen World Rugby and present
(39:02):
your elections and all sorts of wheeling and dealing behind
the scenes, things can change, but it does seem like
there has been positive progression here, so hopefully that goes
through and just I think it's a nod to the
progression that's happened in the Southern hemisphere and they've been
pushing for this for a number of years. And aside
(39:23):
from the red card, things like shot clocks for kicking,
that the mall is only allowed one stoppage and the
scrums and lineouts, basically that the intent to speed up
the game, which is what's happened through Super Rugby this
year with diminishing the TMO influence and the NPC. So
(39:46):
that's been a real catalyst for change, isn't.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
It It has indeed, And yeah, interesting to see attention
now being played up north to that final topic. In
the Final four, Tarmathi Ellison officially leaves the Crusader. It's
not too much surprise there because it seems like it
was destined to happen once the All Blacks made their
coaching changes around that, but he's officially at the Crusaders now.
There was but speculation was basically informed speculation that there
(40:13):
was basically a two year stopgap that Rob Penny was
going to coach the Crusaders twenty twenty four to twenty
twenty five and Thomasy Allison would come in from twenty
twenty six. Now, whether that was in rising, whether it
was just presumed, whatever it was, that's not going to
happen now from twenty twenty six. So the Crusaders, having
lost Scott Robertson, Scott Hansen, Jason Ryan previously to that,
have now lost Tomoty Allison and so any thoughts around
(40:37):
a succession plan now out the window. So what do
the Crusaders do to this point? It gives them a
clean slate, I guess, But what's your feeling around where
they're going to go from here?
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Who knows?
Speaker 3 (40:49):
There's real instability there isn't there? Because Rob Penny was well,
certainly externally was on a knife edge of being chopped.
I don't think that was ever going to happen from
a Crusaders perspective, but dire seasoned by a Crusader standards
this year, so he's under pressure to perform in the
final year of his contract and I don't think they
(41:10):
at this point would know where they're going to go
beyond that. As you mentioned, somebody Ellison was earmarked, he
was odds on to take over.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
Now who now, where do they go?
Speaker 3 (41:18):
There's whispers about Leo McDonald popping up an Australian rugby.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
I don't think he would come back to.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Super rugby as it is so Yeah, real instability and uncertainty.
So maybe just sign Rob Pinny up for five years.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Well, look, he's got James O'Connor next year and may
all come together for Rob in the Crusaders in twenty
twenty five. And this may be a moot discussion. Maybe
you're saying that with a smile. I'm trying to get
a lifetime deal in twenty twenty five to go until
I pop my clogs. I'm going to be coaching the Crusaders.
But let's say is not there's not many head coaches
(41:55):
at the moment putting their hands up. I don't think
internally in New Zealand rugby from the Crusaders, I will
think at maybe like you, guy like Neil Barnes to
come down and coach h he's older than Rob Penny.
But perhaps someone like Kim could come in.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
Colin Cooper's flow.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
It feels like the future exactly that Richard Watt's done
a really good job with plenty of this year. But again,
a guy that's been around a.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Long, long time.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Indeed, Ross Felippo is a coach that I think has
got ammense promise.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
He was certainly in the discussions for the Crusades. I
would say he is actually the leading candidate that that
that that they would go after. But the Chief's going
to let him go because he is a real talent
and highly regarded both with what he's done with Waikato
and the Chiefs, and he's now with New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
Maldi so clearly.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Identified from a high performance perspective with the New Zealand Rugby.
So I was if I was the Crusaders, I'll be
going all in on Ross.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
It's interesting, isn't it. I guess he've still got a
bit of water to go on the bridge as to
how twenty twenty five plays out.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
And Robbie you trust man, we do.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
That'll do us for Rugby Directs this week for your
company again suing with the end of year tour looming.
That has been Rugby Direct with Forklift Solutions lifting you
and your business to a higher level. I thanks as
always to last and Bars English. We'll catch you next time.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
For more from News talkst B, listen live on air
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