November 18, 2024 • 47 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith (in Turin) and Liam Napier review the All Blacks' 1-point loss to France in Paris and how the defeat changes the complexion of the end of year tour. We also look ahead to the final test of the year against Italy and consider the likely make-up of the 23.
We also talk the news of Harry Plummer's impending departure from New Zealand Rugby, the continued noise about a F1/LIV Golf style rugby breakaway tournament and World Rugby Award nominees.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be
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Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It be Welcome into Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions,
elevating you and your business to a high level. Rugby
Direct Back again for another week, this time from Chili
Old Churin where it's going to snow later in the
week as the All Blacks prepared to bring down the
curtain on the.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Twenty twenty four season.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
But first plenty to get stuck into from the weekend
that was, and a great pleasure to be joined again
by Liam Napier Chi Swarts, writer rugby correspondent for The
New Zealand Hero with Liam.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Greetings and welcome back to another edition of Rugby Direct.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Chou Charles Eliotto. Great great to get you and very
special for you to be in my homeland, so hope,
so and up some pasta and some vino and the
great the great people of Italy.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yep, any touch, just let me know and I'll do
all this to match those look. I guess the All
Blacks dream of an end of year two, unbeaten is
over with that loss to France one point loss. Interesting
to have a couple of days to reflect on it. Liam,
how are you feeling.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
After that defeat? Was it an All Black's victory that
got away.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
One hundred per cent? Was Elliott's?
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Look, I think this is their worst loss of the year,
to be honest, it's just so deflating because they were
the best team on the park and.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
They blew it through a number of different factors.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
If we start with I guess the first half and
how good the All Blacks were there. They're attacking intent,
their ball movements, the tri for Peter Luckeye was brilliant,
out of this world in terms of the off floads,
the support play, the pace that the All Blacks played with,
They could have got, could have would have should have
got more points for their dominance in the first half.
(02:15):
They scrum their their lineouts which got steals of the French.
They really were all over them in that first half,
and then they conspired to sort of throw it away,
not all through their own doing. There were some real
frustrations with the officials, which I'm sure we'll touch on,
but the All Black's mistakes as well, whether it was
(02:39):
ball handling or kicking, and the failure to kick for
the corner and be real ruthless with chasing that match winning.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Try lets victory slip through the grass.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And it is frustrating because it does color the complexion
of this campaign for the All Blacks, because, as you mentioned,
a clean sweep, which was unthinkable from my perspective certainly
at the start of this tour, was there for the
taking and now it's gone and it really does shape
the narrative and change the outlook for when it is
(03:15):
time to reflect on the full campaign.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
But yeah, the All Blacks were the better team. France
weren't at full strength.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
This was a great opportunity to put another real stake
in the grounds and unfortunately it slipped away.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It did slip away, and the All Blacks were the
better team, certainly for the first forty minutes.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I think France came back into the game really well.
In fact, there was a little sign just before the
halftime break where they conceded. The All Blacks conceeded that
try to France, which wasn't necessarily against the run of play,
but it felt like a little bit soft from an
All Blacks perspective, given how hard they'd worked for their
points to basically can see one down the other end,
(03:57):
and then that attacking play just before the halftime break
with a building for a period, then from memory, the
ball spits out the back a little bit and they
lost their train of thought a little bit with the
halftime clock having ticked over, and then there was a
forty to forty five meta drop goal attent from Bowden
Barrett that came to nothing, and that was half time,
(04:18):
and it just felt like it wasn't quite ruthless enough
from the All Blacks in the first forty minutes.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And similar to last week Ireland.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
In an Ireland, you know, France comes out strong in
the second spell, but not similar to Dublin. The All
Blacks couldn't wrestle back the momentum they did it in
Dublin really well, they couldn't do it. They had it
for a period of time. That bull goes to hands
out to Will Jordan and rather than being kicked ahead
and Louis Bielberi managers to score, and it felt like
(04:50):
that was the real swing of the game and the
All Blacks were chasing it from that point so you
look at it and go there are a couple of
warning signs potentially before halftime that maybe the All Blacks
didn't get enough reward for their first half dominance.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Yeah, indeed, And I think it was as big mo
that they let slip through their graphs. You know that
what they were doing so well in the first half
in terms of the pace, they controlled the pace and
tempo and the game was in their hands. Where in
the second half, I think it became a bit of
a grind, didn't it. Whether it was the All Black's
(05:26):
rock ball and their presentation and their cleanouts weren't accurate
or urgent enough, and that allowed France to get on top.
And I thought the Georgian referee, I've had some frustrations
with him before and I think it just becomes a
bit of a lottery there. But also just France were
able to put the All Blacks under pressure by slowing
(05:49):
the game by which allows their defense to set.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
There was some handling issues from the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
From memory, Will Jordan passed that went high, Caleb Clarks
bundled into touch, Rica Olwani drops one ball a sapphire
more and miss as a throw.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Cody Taylor gets pinged for a penalty at the mall.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Just the discipline started to go and France were just
able to get on top play their game. I thought
what France did really well is they went through the
middle of the All Blacks and that was through their
physical forward pack. I thought they got some pay for
that around the fringes, maybe the All blacksmiths. Sam Cain
(06:32):
just his defensive work there. But also, you know, we
do have to touch on the in my mind, if
it's easy in hindsight, isn't it to point the finger
at Scott Barret? And I don't think this is the soulary,
but I do think they had to go for the
line they had. Damian McKenzie came on and they kept
(06:55):
four second half penalties, three of those in the last
eighteen minutes.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
Now, in my mind, if Sam White Locke or.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Ardie Severe as captain, I don't think there's any question
that they would have at least had one crack at
the line, a mall try put down a scrum where
they had dominance, just at least had one go at it.
And you know, I can understand the reasoning that you
look to get back down there again one point game,
you force a penalty and kick the winning goal. But
(07:25):
it just felt like at that moment in the match,
Sel Blacks needed to put the foot on the throat,
they needed to have a go and that was I
think that will be a real learning moment for Scott
Barres's Captaincy.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, let's hope it is. I think.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, it is easy to say in hindsight because you
know the score of the try, no one's going to
go back and go gee. I wish they've done it
in threes instead. But it felt like with the time
that was left, when McKenzie set himself up for that
last penalty goal, it would have been best set to
go for the corner and have for the attacking line
(08:03):
out inside the twenty two and set yourself up.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
The line out. Muller had a little wobble bar spy
and large.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
You know, he had a great game at double in
the week before, so you would have backed him to
get to the right target. Even if they didn't, you know,
France will have to presumably clear it outside the twenty two.
The All Blacks should get the ball still deep inside
French territory. So yeah, I think it was the wrong
call I actually liked Scott Barrett actually postgame saying, you
actually don't know if it was the right call or
on and he was torn, and he remained torn after
(08:34):
the game whether he made the right call in his head.
I think it is a learning moment for Scott Barrett.
And you know, maybe a little bit more ruthlessness required
from the All Blacks not only in that decision, but
across the eighty minutes and indeed perhaps even across the year.
Without wanting to verge too far into season review material
(08:54):
just yet with the game to go, but you know,
the ruthlessness that the All Blacks teams in the past
have had, just little bits missing from the team at
the moment. There's certainly plenty of attack, but an endeavor
just that ruthlessness in the twenty two and on attack
is missing at the moment.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
That's right, and it stuck for them in the first
half those passes, but the French were able to slow
the pace, make it a grind and then just pounce
on the All Blacks mistakes and a couple of those
in particular that we need to touch on. You know,
Courtiers Lastima's performance off the bench as in the spotlights.
(09:34):
He got pained for taking too long at the ruck
trying to do a box kick, which was a fifty
to fifty decision. I don't think that was fairly policed
across the whole game. And then there was a tough
line out throw that he lost as well off the
(09:56):
top ball. And my question to you is do the
All Blacks need to be a wee bit more flexible
about the introduction of their bench because we talked last
week and I also wrote something that they have flipped
the script on their bench because they had the final
quarter fades and the Rugby Championship. But then we saw
it Twickenham and in Dublin the bench making a massive impact.
(10:21):
They went They went to the bench quite late in
this game. They only introduced the front rowers with about
eighteen minutes remaining.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Patrick Tuo Polocho was a wee bit before that.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
But cam Roygate in particular, he's out playing one of,
if not the best players in the world in Anton DuPont,
playing out of his skin. Again, It's easy in hindsight,
isn't it to look back and say you shouldn't have
replaced him.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
But what's what's your view on that?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, I thought it was early.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, I thought it was early when they substituted him,
given the way that he'd been playing, and didn't sound
like there are any injuries. Obviously he is coming back
from an injury. Certainly postgame there was nothing of the
sort mentioned. So I think it was too early, and
I think, you know, I feel the All Blacks. You
need to keep your best players out in the field
(11:07):
for as long as possible, and even if it's in
a half back role where buying large you know, players
are substituted late in the game because it is a
position that requires and demands a lot of you. I
think you need to be a little bit more flexible
around that and getting you know, even seventy minutes out
of the Cambroy Guard, the way that he was playing,
(11:27):
if he could get to that point, would have been
maybe a bit of a difference maker in that game.
You know, often you see them change the halfbacks to
change the tempo of the game. Well, I think Camboy
Guard was setting the tempo of that game and went
a little bit backwards when Cortez Razima came on the park.
So I think that is still a learning curve. We
talk about learning curves for Scott robertson of Scott Barrett.
(11:49):
That's one for Scott Robinson. Just around the bench and
how best to deploy those players. French went in with
a six to two bench, which meant that they had
a reserve halfback. But and do Pop moved out to
ten late in the game when Ligorak came on the park.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
So you know that was slightly different.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
But they kept too pinned out there for the full
eighty minutes because they know the impact that he has
on a game. Well, you know, to be honest, Cam
royguard in this All Blacks team at the moment. I
know he's only just come back, but he's providing some
of the sparks, so surely you wund out him out there.
He's a hell of a fit athlete, he got that
Bronco test earlier in the year before that injury.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Out there as long as possible.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah, I totally agree, And I think half back, while
it is a very anaerobic position, you're doing a lot
of running.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
If you think back to Aaron Smith, he used to
play massive minutes.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
The World Cup Final, he played seventy eight odd minutes
before you know, Finlay Christie came off the bench and
just on that, you know, I think it really does
show the folly of that decision in the World Cup
knockout games that cam Roygard wasn't on the bench for
those knockout fixtures. But cam Roygard, as you mentioned with
(13:01):
the Bronco Test, he's one of the fittest in the
All Blacks. I think he was playing exceptionally well. You know,
he picked the pock for that tri a thief in
the Paris Knight. Brilliant piece of individual play there. But
also just his ability. His size is underrated, but you
know everyone looks at his running game and his big
left boot, but the All Blacks rap presentation as a
(13:24):
touched on before has not been great in the past
two weeks and canroy Guard copes with that very well.
Because of his size, he's able to shake off defenders,
he doesn't get too rattled there, and he was dealing
with that French pressure and you know, making good decisions.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
So I would have left him out there a lot
a lot longer.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
As you mentioned, upon played the full eighty minutes jameson
Gibson Park another huge influence for Ireland. He often plays
eighty minutes, so it is common for half backs to
play big minutes, so I think the All Blacks botched
that that change.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, quarters, Racham has had a good season on his
rookie year for the All Blacks, but just Fils over
the last two or three weeks has been a few
things that he needs some prove on heading into twenty
twenty five, and that comes with every position. I'm sure
on the park, let's talk before we wrap up around
the refereeing and both put the boot in too much.
(14:19):
But Nika Amisha Kelly. Again, the issue for me with
World Rugb at the moment is there are not enough
good referees to go around. I think that's plain and
simple the truth. At the moment, there are referees that
have been elevated too early. If you're in the UK,
you tend to get elevated on that path very early.
(14:40):
But they clearly want referees from around the merging nations.
That's why they've got Nika Amisha Kelly. He's had a
couple of All Blacks tests previously and other tests around
the globe. I think he struggled with the pace that
both teams are wanting to play at and made some
curious decisions, aided by his TMO that you had a
(15:02):
big influence on the game, the offer tong of Faci
nick Roll. While it's been three days, I'm still struggling
to see where exactly that was. And there were some
other ones as well. He seemed unwilling to reward the
all Blacks at scrum time, just didn't seem to want
to go near it. He gave one penalty and then
basically washed his hands of the whole affair. So I
don't want us to be seen as a criticism of
(15:23):
him necessarily, But I think the big issue with World
Rugby at the moment is the rulebook is too complicated.
There are very few referees who can keep up with
it and manage a game, which is essentially what they
have been tasked with as managing these games as well
as refereeing it. And now you've got referees that are
elevated above their station too early, and I think that's
(15:43):
partly why there are so many issues around it at
the moment.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Yeah, that was a massive issue, and I do agree
about the standard of international refereeing on the whole seene
some very experienced referees, Wayne Barnes and the light move
on in recent years and the standard has dipped quite significantly.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
And I also agree.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
That there's a desire from World Rugby to promote these
guys on the basis that you want to cross section
of countries and as you mentioned, emerging nations. But there
there's always a bit of a lottery when he's in charge.
It's hard to escape that. And I don't think he
should be getting these big tests at this stage in
(16:22):
his career. Maybe he'll improve, but I don't think he's
there yet. And yeah, that neck role in the context
of that result, that was a terrible decision. That is
such a fifty to fifty call for the TMO to
intervene the scrum as well. Yeah, the All Blacks are
very dominant, pushing the French back and they weren't called
(16:45):
So that was definitely a contributing factor. It wasn't the
sole reason the All Blacks lost, but I think behind
closed doors there will be a lot of frustrations. Now,
now look, you know we've been reasonably critical, I guess
on the whole, but what about some of the individual performances,
for you, Elliott, for the All Blacks, one guy in particular,
(17:05):
Peter Luckeye comes off.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
The bench and has set can test.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I was very vocal about the fact that I wanted
this guy, twenty one year old prospects been playing out
of his skin in the NPC and Super Ragby for
a couple of years. I wanted him in the squad
from the outset. He only got called up because the
injuries comes on play seventy eight minutes outstanding, EF it
(17:30):
wasn't it? And some others for you.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, he was excellent.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Very impressed by him coming and you know, one minute
forty five into the game, playing the reas much longer
than he would have expected. I thought he was superb
and that bodes really really well for the makeup of
that loose Ford trio comes twenty twenty five. Is going
to be interesting to see how that all shakes down
and which position each player finds themselves in. We just
(17:54):
mentioned the scrum, but I thought to Maati Williams was excellent,
probably his best test for mine. You know, there's been
a lot of conjecture back home around where Ethan de
Groot's gone through. Well we know where he went to
for England out of the team stood down, but time
to put some respect onto Mudy William's name because he
was excellent again and he was the previous week as well,
(18:17):
and I thought it was his best test. Didn't get
rewarded necessarily the penalties at scrum time, but I thought
he was superb. Cam Royguard obviously, as we touched on before,
I thought was a tet as at that point where
he's not having bad tests, he's everywhere and rdisav I
thought was his best test and a few tests as well.
So a lot to like actually from the All Blacks.
(18:37):
And here's the thing Liam, my dad messaged me after
the game and he made a very good point and
he said, if the All Blacks before the tour, you know,
would win two of those big games and lose the
other one by one, I think most people would have
taken it.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Would you have?
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Yeah? I would have.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
It is a good point. I think both of us
predicted that'd go. They dropped one test on the tour,
and as I mentioned last part, I think he really
struck some form in the tipping department because he said
that beat Island.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
I said that to Ireland. You said they lose to France.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I said they beat Front So yeah, who knows you
might be able to flip the script and carry that momentum.
But on the context of this tour, I think on
the provisor that they do beat Italy and put out
a comprehensive performance there.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
It's been.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Surprising, I think from the All Blacks, but there is
context to that as well. They could have easily dropped
that England test, So there is improvement. There is evolution
from this all Black team, but it's just it is
frustrating that they let that test slip because it was
there for the taking. Just one other player that you
didn't mention, Caleb Clark. I think he was outstanding on
(19:51):
the left wing, made big meters with every touch, seems
to be getting involved a lot, and he's a guy
that wasn't really in the picture, you know a year ago,
struggled to crack this all Black team. So he cemented
that left wing role. And I think we also saw
Mark Tale. His absence was massive and the loyalty I think,
(20:12):
and severa Reese has been misplaced. He got that one
incept but then lacked pace and then for the runaway
trier for France that was very stark hit. Severa Reese's
lack of pace and just how blitzed he got, so
I think interesting to see where that goes. But Mark
de Lea's absence on the right wing really felt and
(20:35):
Artie Severe as you mentioned, back to his back to
the future, wasn't it going reverting to open soide flanker
roaming the wide channels. He had a big influence in
Peter Luckeye's opening try busting tackles. So the composition of
that loose for trio very intriguing going forward.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Indeed, it is one Reese I think you know, you
mentioned Calen Park was out of form or wasn't part
of the squad a year ago. You know, maybe the
same will happen with severa Reese and we're here in
a years time saying, you know, he's found his way
back in, but it feels like he is drifting out
of this all blacks environment at the moment, just in
terms of his necessity to be there.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
In all honesty, as you mentioned, Mark Kalaier was superb, but.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I just think that he doesn't have the pace anymore.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
He came up the fact of that big injury. Of
course in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
He's very good in super rugby and a poor crusader's side,
But just feels like father time might be catching up
a little bit with Seva Reese. He's twenty seven now, which,
as we know, is the year that All Blacks wingers
basically no longer worth anything.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
So I mean that in the kindest possible way.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So look, you know, there's a big question mark I
think over him heading into twenty twenty five, isn't there?
Speaker 5 (21:51):
There is? Indeed?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
And what about just the blueprint for the All Blacks,
because it was very notable in this game the lack
of kicking, so clearly they didn't want to get into
you know, aerial ping pong with France because of DuPont.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
And the French liking they kick.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
France kept longer and more often than any other team
in international rugby, so they've clearly done their homework.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
There will Jordan cart and the ball back.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
I think they probably the balance tip too far into
holding the ball and maybe a bit of fatigue in
the second half contributed to those costly handling errors. But
I do like that from the All Blacks that they
are wanting to attack. They're wanting to use the width
and stretch teams and bring attacking chaos to their game
(22:38):
and it did work for them in the first half,
but just finding that balance it's tough, isn't it. Ali
and the international arena between the short kicking game, to
counter rush defense, to shape the defense and get them behind,
and to use your attacking instincts and offloads and ball
movement and skill that is right across the park with
(22:59):
this aw Black team when you talk about to Mighty
Williams and Wallace a tt and to provide and you
know how athletic is this saw book full pack. They
are outstanding, but you've got to strike that balance and
maybe it just tipped it a little bit too far.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, I think it did have a little too far.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
What I do like, though, Liam, is the game plans
that are in place, and largely they are working for
the All Blacks. Obviously that was a defeat on the weekend,
but there are tweaks to the game plans that we're
seeing for different opposition that I think are paying dividends.
And you've got to have those things in your back
pocket as a test team. A plan A, plan B,
Plan C for how the opposition attack, and I think
(23:37):
we're seeing that from the All Blacks now but there
are different strategies in place, so that to me is
a pretty big tick. Let's move on to what we
expect this weekend against Italy and the final test of
the year in churin, Italy. Coming off a narrow win
over Georgia on the weekend. What's your expectation for the
(23:59):
team that will be selected by the All Blacks announced
Friday morning amongst the snowstorm on Thursday here in Turin
Liam Will it be whole sale changes, minimal changes somewhere
in between.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
I think it'll be wholesale, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
That's been a big old year, massive three weeks for
the All Blacks. Those grueling tests I think they were
basically in the space of fifteen days, so it's got
to be some massive fatigue and batter than bruised bodies
among those starters.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
So I think you'll see Sam Kine and CJ.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Petinara come back for their last outings for the All Blacks.
I think you'll see probably Damien McKenzie start at tech
and again Stephen Peter Fetter at fullback. I think guys
like Brocton need to come into the midfields. I think
there will be wholesale changes Ethan de Groot, I imagine
comes back for a start. He's been out in the cold,
as you mentioned, following the discipline issue. Good what is
(24:56):
it three weeks ago now and you've got guys in
the squad who would have been holding tackle pads, preparing
the starters, and they need to finish the year with
some sort of some form of encouragement.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
So Italy haven't been great.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
You know, you mentioned the Georgian result there, but they've
struggled in recent weeks to really put any compelling form together.
So I think you'll see something close to the Japanese
team because a number of those guys haven't played since.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
You know, they need a chance, don't they They do.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I don't know that Ovia his wholesale as that necessarily
look at. I think you look at some players like
Cody Taylor. You know he set out the Island Test stuffer.
Amoa had two big tests in a row, one by
design one by Taylor going off against England. So I
think Taylor might start this week again Ethan de Groot. Certainly,
(25:50):
maybe Passily Otossa gets the start. I wonder with Semipenny
Feenal being out with they look at Scott Barrett on
the blind given perhaps the lack of options in the
squad around that position. Whilst the Titi has had four
tests in a row now, he's had a big year,
he's nominated for a World Rugby Award. I just you know,
you wonder whether they just need to give him a
(26:12):
little bit of a spell, even though he's about to
get into his off season. So you know, Boden Barratt
miss that test as well, So there's a few things
to balance.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Sam Kaine, you'd suspect will start. T J Petanarra maybe
gets a.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Fee weell test off the bench as well, and then
you maybe look at David Havali Anton then a Brown
getting some game time as well. But there are a
few balances, and there's probably going to be some players
that are you know, short on game time and we're
not going to get much game time on this tour.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
But sometimes the way the cookie crumbles.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Yeah, it's Ruben Loves one guy that we haven't really mentioned.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
He only got five or ten minutes off the bench
against Japan on the right wing, but one of the
most I think exciting attacking prospects very much, and he's
on rugby very much in the in the in the
will Jordan Mold so I'd like to see him include
it off the bench and give him, you know, good
good stint in the second half. But and Billy Prop
(27:08):
as well as the guy that hasn't had enough game
time this year in my mind, So for me, I
think it'd be great to see him start at center
and get another crack because I think he's only played
two tests this year if I'm right, in Fiji and Japan,
and he was the form midfielder throughout Super ab So
(27:29):
pretty keen to see him get another run around. No surprises, Elliott,
that's wanting to see a few more Hurricanes in the mix.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
No, I'm just not sure he's come back from the
birth of his first child. Is the only things that
may keep him out of the mix. I know you've
been banging the drum for some time. You'd like to
see Schaffie Hockey in the team as well.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Well.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Look, I think there's a ecuoy in New Zealand as
we speak, Elliott, and fair to say, I think people
are already taken to the streets about Shaffie Hockey's inclusion,
so Razors should tread very carefully on that front.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, be your idea enough before we wrap up Harry
Plummer sounds like he's going to go to ACM Clement
and continuous rugby Korea thereafter Super Rugby in twenty twenty five. Look,
you sometimes you take those reports in French media with
a grain of salt, but the soult has been spread
around relatively wide in this instance in French media over
(28:25):
the last twenty four to forty eight hours. Sounds like
he's going certainly my understanding anyway, and you know, off
the back of his one test for the All Blacks
this year he's currently injured, not with the team in camp. Look,
you know, good on them for going and chasing the
overseas deal. But I think it's a bit of a
lost to New Zealand rugby when Harry Plumber goes.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
It will be a loss, it is.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I guess it's a shame that a guy, you know,
coming into the prime of career, he's done the hard yards,
through injury and come through a lot of adversity and
then leads the Blues to a Super Rugby title, probably
the most unheralded first five to a degree in New
Zealand rugby.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
History.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Really, the Blues have had Carlos Beer and Bowden Barrett and.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
How many other you know.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
First Five's pumped up to be the next big thing
and Harry Plumber, local boy comes through and takes them
to their first title and you know, twenty odd odd years.
So look, he's he's It's a smart move for Harry.
I think that his pathway to the All Blacks is
largely blocked, particularly with Richard Mwonga highly likely to come
(29:36):
back in July next year.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
He's got an All Blacks cat.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Beside his name now, Harry Plumber, so your cash and
while that's hot, and I'm sure he's been offered a
great deal and it'll be a great lifestyle for him
in France. Also here in Ricky Ricky Talley Elliott's likely
off to Montpellier as well, So I think that will
probably be for twenty twenty what's that twenty twenty sixth.
(30:04):
So yeah, the Blues, I guess losing a couple of
guys who are interested me too on their title and
the coming years. But it does make sense for the
stage of career that they're they're at, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
It does, And you know, I think both players you
can't begrudge them going overseas that at the point. For
rookie Rocqauseilley, clearly the writings on the wall around his
All Blacks ambitions given he to the All Blacks fifteen Tour,
and Harry Plummer probably get the sense of where he
is in the pecking order and I think, yeah, I
(30:35):
think that's probably about right for both of those players.
But again, it just takes away that that middle crust
from New Zealand rugby and some of those key players
you know around Super Rugby and the NPC that have
been you know, formative for their provinces, formative for their
Super Rugby teams in some success in recent years. Just
(30:56):
losing that middle layer I think does hurt.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
So yeah, big.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Loss for both of those players, all their respective unions
and of course the Blues as well. We will take
a break here on Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions
and come back with the final four after this.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Try it had sixty secondary tackle get up age.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
Before It's Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Back now on Rugby Direct with the final four for
rugby topics. Them and I had debate them all, Liam,
the continued chatter on the live if one style rugby tournament.
Another report over the weekend, if I recall rightly it
was in the Times, might have been the Telegraph, I'm
trying to think, but certainly one of the UK based papers,
(31:54):
similar detail to what we've seen previous week or so
a little bit more said that a lot of players
are on or have been targeted, with deal sort of
tentatively in place. Hard to know too much about this
given it's all shrouded in secrecy, but should world rugby
be concerned?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Are you concerned around the way this is tracking?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Well?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Where there's smoke this fire, Elliott, So I think there
needs to be a degree of concern, but we don't
know yet. There's no concrete information about who's the money man,
where's the money coming from? And that's the big question here,
how much does this evolve? Because I did have a
few background conversations on this yesterday, and you're talking about
(32:41):
somewhere in the vicinity of four hundred to five million
dollars that you're going to need to back something like this.
You're looking at two hundred and forty men's players, one
hundred and twenty women's players fourteen games a bit of
a traveling circus, so it's a massive amounts of financial
backing that you need to pull something like this off.
(33:02):
But this isn't going away, is it. As you mentioned,
we discussed this a couple of weeks ago, and it
now does seem to be gathering some steam. I think
players in England in particular maybe the first to jump
and get on board.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
There's a bit of friction there between the players and the.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Union and and then wanting wanting more, and and the
local landscape they're changing. So interesting to see where it goes.
But I'm curious. I need more detail. And it does
come down to dollars and cents, doesn't it. Who's going
to stump up with what is some serious amount of
(33:42):
money to make this get off the ground.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Indeed, Rugby's had a history of this sort of stuff.
There was Global Rapid Rugby which promised plenty, there were
the twelves for a half second. There have been other
things that have gone on previously. It'll either go one
of two ways. I suppose It'll be like either those
aforementioned things, or it will be like the you know,
(34:08):
WRC five and could threaten to pull the game apart,
sput the game in two, and the only benefit from
the latter would be it may force World Rugby into
making changes. And you know, sometimes, you know, a threat
like this can elevate and make things happen more quickly.
(34:31):
You get into a sense of single swim mode, so
and may force them into doing things outside the box.
I don't know but what they might be. But sometimes
a bit of pressure is, you know, is what sport
sports organizations need. Not saying it's a good thing by
any measure, but sometimes you know, a little bit of
(34:52):
heat breathing down the neck isn't necessarily the worst thing
for some of the you know, the global power brokers,
be they World Rugby or some of the international national federations.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
That's right, And look, the landscape is changing.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
If you look at some of the the players, even
in the New Zealand landscape. Artie Severe is a massive
icon somebody who knows is worth. So if something like
this is floating around, I have no doubt that uziand
rugby players will look at it and see what's on offer,
decide what's best for them, and you know, weigh things
(35:28):
up when you look at the top All Blacks. We've
seen in recent years many of them go to Japan
and come back, So there is a potential for them
to go to this breakaway World League if it does
fit in the international calendar. But the All Blacks are
still a massive lure. The World Cup still a massive lure.
(35:49):
International rugby is the cream dela creme, and we've seen
that in recent weeks.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
Haven't we the stage in France? Who were there in Paris?
Speaker 4 (35:57):
What a magnificent atmosphere and occasion and players want to
be on that stage. So if they have to give
that up to go and play in this breakaway league,
I think that would be very hard for them because
money isn't everything and playing on those big stages, representing
their country, playing at the pinnacle of the sport is
still a massive driver for athletes in the prime of
(36:21):
their careers.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, World Rugby needs to protect that and not go
the way of cricket where franchise sport franchise cricket rules
international cricket has done for a few years now. So
World Rugby does need to be cognizant of the threats.
Speaking of World Rugby Award nominees, Outs and Sprinkling of
(36:43):
New Zealand is nominated, what Iss the Tity, Breakthrough Player
of the Year, Hannah King, the Black Fans Pivot and
Breakthrough Women's Player of the Year, michaleebe Blyth, Georgia Miller
in the Sevens Awards, and Georgia Ponsonby as well nominated
for Women's Teens Try of the Year. But from a
wider picture of Liam, any surprises are missions that stood
(37:04):
out for you.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
Not on the whole Elliot.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
It's great to see using a woman well represented, which
is a reflection of how well they've gone, particularly on
the seventh scene from I guess it's disappointing from an
all Blacks point of view not to see some form
of representation in the Player.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Of the Year nominees.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Yet I'd be disappointed if Wallace the TC doesn't win
Breakthrough Player and knows quality competition in the English Winger
and Sasha that the spring Box First five as well,
but he's been the clear standout for me. The one
I think frustration glaring emission in the context of World
(37:49):
Rugby Awards in the entirety as there's never been. Elliott's
are prop nominated for the Player of the Year and
I know there's a bit of consternation out there that
ox Niche is not part of that mix. There is
three spring box, which is I think fair. They've led
the world in recent years and they still hold them
mantle in the global context. But what does the PROP
(38:12):
have to do to get nominated for that award?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Well, very good question. Tyger Furlong had an excellent year
about five or six years ago. I think's had a
few excellent years. Tyger Philon might not be the player
that he once was, but he was at one point
I thought deserving of a nominee.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
There have been other.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Players as well that would have claims to that, someone
you know, perhaps like a troll. Lomax even might be
in the conversation for some of his efforts over say
twenty twenty three, not saying he'd win it necessarily, but
he'd been there thereabouts in terms of probably being the
world's best tight head for a time. So I look,
(38:55):
it seems like there are blinkers on from the World
Rugby Awards Committee around the Props, and look that maybe
they need a union or something like that to form
and get some recognition from the top brass, because seems
like the blinkers are on at the top topic number three.
Let's continue the World Rugby three and Brett Robinson the Australian.
(39:16):
As Mike Robinson told us a couple of weeks ago,
he was New Zealand Rugby's choice. He gets the top job,
first man from the Southern Hemisphere to get it since
it was a contestable position some twenty eight years ago.
I guess the question for you, Liam, is anything going
to change under Brett Robinson's stewardship is.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Chair Well, I think it'll be a progression Elliott, of
what we've seen in terms of the priorities around the
style of the game, hopefully which is pleasing from an
entertainment perspective, creating more pace and tempo, less TMO influence,
so prioritizing rugby as an entertainment product, hopefully ushering through
(39:58):
the twenty minute red card and those sorts of things. Interestingly,
I think he only just knucked through by two votes,
and I don't think he heads out the Frick's support,
which is quite telling in terms of the difference of
opinion in among the heavyweight sans Are nations. I think
(40:19):
if you look at it objectively, it's good for New
Zealand rugby and the established elite. But someone like Benazi,
his main competition did. Part of his pitch was very
much around bringing through Tier two, having more Tier one
against Tier two competition in the international arena. So I
(40:42):
don't I don't think it's it's great for Tier two rugby.
Britt Robinson will very much support the nation's championship and
those sorts of things. What sort of big ticket items
do you see him trying to push.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Well, probably not his remit, but I would like him
to sort out, you know, some of the officiating and
some of the rule book issues around the game. Again
not necessarily his remits necessarily, but I guess it forms
a pole of game picture picture that I think is
you know, an issue for world rugby at the moment.
(41:17):
You know, he obviously a twenty four team Men's World
Cup in twenty seven that I think the jury is
still out on around that format and whether it's a success.
So you know, I think there are a lot to do.
I think that the key things for him, as you say,
tear toundations not necessarily on board with it, wasn't part
(41:39):
of his pitch compared to Benazi, So he's got a
bit of work to do there to bring them on
board and bring them.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Part of the game.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
There are a number of challenges inside the game at
the moment financially, you know, around franchise rugby and everything
like that that he'll have to look at too. So yeah,
it's a fairly big inbox for Brett Robinson as he
gets down to the chairmanship over the next few months
and interesting to.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
See how that progresses topping.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Number four in the final four Lee Let's get into
some predictions for the final proper full weekends of the
Autumnation Series, and Ireland and Australia play the following weekend.
But let's look at this weekend full slate of fixtures.
Speaking of a Tier one bias, let's look through these
Tier one fixtures. France versus a Argentina rather Friday nights
(42:31):
local time. It starred to France, three from three from
France after they went over the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Oh it's the tough one to tip there, Elliott. The
Poems pushed Islands to the brink, didn't they. And Dublin
and are a team on the rise. But yeah, France
at home, they've got a great record in Paris pretty
hard to beat.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
The must start to France, so stick with the French.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, Le's stick with the French on that front as well.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Ireland Fiji at the Aviva come Saturday afternoon local.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
Time should be reasonably straightforward for Ireland to expect.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
It'd expects so.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
But they've you know, didn't think they were that great
against Argentina. In all honesty, you know what going to
shock the world and get a winner of Ireland and that's.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
You've always been a big Duror fan, So no surprises there.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I've seen them beat the Crusaders far too often to
underestimate them. Liam Wells, South Africa. This would be pretty
special for Gats to get a big win over Russy,
wouldn't it.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
It'll be special to the Gats to have his last
game in charge of Wales. Certainly a lot of heat
building in Cardiff and the valleys. They've got the pitchforks out.
They're storming, storming Cardiff. So look, it's going to be
another dark day, isn't that. Whales falling to eleven straight
(44:04):
defeats their worst run in history. And that was a
fish lacking by the Wallabies, wasn't it. So I was
in a very dark place at the moment and it's
not going to get any better against the World Champs.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, I can't see it. Ethlee Newer, we didn't give
a tip for that. Are you going with your Italian
roots and backing an upset?
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (44:24):
The head of the Hearts torn torn hair, very very
very torn.
Speaker 5 (44:29):
But I think the All Blacks might just sneak that one.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I think so to Scotland. Australia is the Grand Slam
on for the Wallabies.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Look, I'm going to say Scotland in the Grand Slam. Unfortunately.
I think the Wallabies are a team on the rise,
but Scotland can be quite tough to beat in Edinburgh.
So unfortunately, the Wallabies dreams. I don't think it's going
to come crashing down. It'll be a tight type ficture,
but I think Scotland put.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Them three from three Babby. It's coming home to Australia
and England Japan. Eddie Jones returning to Alian Stadium, leaving
leading the Brave Blossoms to glory, presumably Liam.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
No, No, he doesn't elliots it.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
He's building you know, you know, he's tired trope that
he's building for the next World Cup.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
It's all part of the master plan.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Japanel cop thirty point loss and you know it's all
about experience at this point in the in the in
the journey.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
As John Mitchell would say.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
What's Steve Borthwick building too?
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Well, he's under as much pressure as Gats at the moment,
isn't he? Three losses, three consecutive losses at Twickenham. I
think it's the first time since two thousand and six
England they've had that sort of run. They should have
beaten the Wallabies, probably should have been the all blacks
of a couple of missed George Ford opportunities at the end,
but they really faded badly against South Africa. The box
(46:02):
just know how to win those tight tests. Damian Delnde
and Cheeslin Colby combineding brilliantly at funished there. So Yeah,
a lot of heat coming for Seve worthwook and I
think we're seeing the effects of those coaching changes with
Felix Jones leaving a big loss for them, so they
desperately need one, don't they.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
They're doing indeed's right. That'll do us for Rugby Direct
for another week. Quit programming note that we won't be
back immediately after the game next weekend. I have a
few flights to catch back home, but we will endeavors
be back in your ears by the end of next
week to not only wrap up the game again Italy,
but the All Black season as a whole.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
So look forward to.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Doing that then and maybe even doing a podcast face
to face again.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
That'd be pretty special, wouldn't it, Liab.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
It'd be great to gaze into your eyes over a
vena and some fresh past that you're bringing home and transit,
So look forward to that.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
Elliott.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, I'm not sure we get a pass border control,
but I'll do my very best for Liam.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
That has been Rugby Direct for another week.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
I thanks to Lars and Bars English and of course
our thanks to Access Solutions elevating you and your business
to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks. It be
follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Yet inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It be Welcome into Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions,
elevating you and your business to a high level. Rugby
Direct Back again for another week, this time from Chili
Old Churin where it's going to snow later in the
week as the All Blacks prepared to bring down the
curtain on the.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Twenty twenty four season.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
But first plenty to get stuck into from the weekend
that was, and a great pleasure to be joined again
by Liam Napier Chi Swarts, writer rugby correspondent for The
New Zealand Hero with Liam.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Greetings and welcome back to another edition of Rugby Direct.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Chou Charles Eliotto. Great great to get you and very
special for you to be in my homeland, so hope,
so and up some pasta and some vino and the
great the great people of Italy.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yep, any touch, just let me know and I'll do
all this to match those look. I guess the All
Blacks dream of an end of year two, unbeaten is
over with that loss to France one point loss. Interesting
to have a couple of days to reflect on it. Liam,
how are you feeling.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
After that defeat? Was it an All Black's victory that
got away.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
One hundred per cent? Was Elliott's?
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Look, I think this is their worst loss of the year,
to be honest, it's just so deflating because they were
the best team on the park and.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
They blew it through a number of different factors.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
If we start with I guess the first half and
how good the All Blacks were there. They're attacking intent,
their ball movements, the tri for Peter Luckeye was brilliant,
out of this world in terms of the off floads,
the support play, the pace that the All Blacks played with,
They could have got, could have would have should have
got more points for their dominance in the first half.
(02:15):
They scrum their their lineouts which got steals of the French.
They really were all over them in that first half,
and then they conspired to sort of throw it away,
not all through their own doing. There were some real
frustrations with the officials, which I'm sure we'll touch on,
but the All Black's mistakes as well, whether it was
(02:39):
ball handling or kicking, and the failure to kick for
the corner and be real ruthless with chasing that match winning.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
Try lets victory slip through the grass.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And it is frustrating because it does color the complexion
of this campaign for the All Blacks, because, as you mentioned,
a clean sweep, which was unthinkable from my perspective certainly
at the start of this tour, was there for the
taking and now it's gone and it really does shape
the narrative and change the outlook for when it is
(03:15):
time to reflect on the full campaign.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
But yeah, the All Blacks were the better team. France
weren't at full strength.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
This was a great opportunity to put another real stake
in the grounds and unfortunately it slipped away.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It did slip away, and the All Blacks were the
better team, certainly for the first forty minutes.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I think France came back into the game really well.
In fact, there was a little sign just before the
halftime break where they conceded. The All Blacks conceeded that
try to France, which wasn't necessarily against the run of play,
but it felt like a little bit soft from an
All Blacks perspective, given how hard they'd worked for their
points to basically can see one down the other end,
(03:57):
and then that attacking play just before the halftime break
with a building for a period, then from memory, the
ball spits out the back a little bit and they
lost their train of thought a little bit with the
halftime clock having ticked over, and then there was a
forty to forty five meta drop goal attent from Bowden
Barrett that came to nothing, and that was half time,
(04:18):
and it just felt like it wasn't quite ruthless enough
from the All Blacks in the first forty minutes.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And similar to last week Ireland.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
In an Ireland, you know, France comes out strong in
the second spell, but not similar to Dublin. The All
Blacks couldn't wrestle back the momentum they did it in
Dublin really well, they couldn't do it. They had it
for a period of time. That bull goes to hands
out to Will Jordan and rather than being kicked ahead
and Louis Bielberi managers to score, and it felt like
(04:50):
that was the real swing of the game and the
All Blacks were chasing it from that point so you
look at it and go there are a couple of
warning signs potentially before halftime that maybe the All Blacks
didn't get enough reward for their first half dominance.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Yeah, indeed, And I think it was as big mo
that they let slip through their graphs. You know that
what they were doing so well in the first half
in terms of the pace, they controlled the pace and
tempo and the game was in their hands. Where in
the second half, I think it became a bit of
a grind, didn't it. Whether it was the All Black's
(05:26):
rock ball and their presentation and their cleanouts weren't accurate
or urgent enough, and that allowed France to get on top.
And I thought the Georgian referee, I've had some frustrations
with him before and I think it just becomes a
bit of a lottery there. But also just France were
able to put the All Blacks under pressure by slowing
(05:49):
the game by which allows their defense to set.
Speaker 5 (05:54):
There was some handling issues from the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
From memory, Will Jordan passed that went high, Caleb Clarks
bundled into touch, Rica Olwani drops one ball a sapphire
more and miss as a throw.
Speaker 5 (06:06):
Cody Taylor gets pinged for a penalty at the mall.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Just the discipline started to go and France were just
able to get on top play their game. I thought
what France did really well is they went through the
middle of the All Blacks and that was through their
physical forward pack. I thought they got some pay for
that around the fringes, maybe the All blacksmiths. Sam Cain
(06:32):
just his defensive work there. But also, you know, we
do have to touch on the in my mind, if
it's easy in hindsight, isn't it to point the finger
at Scott Barret? And I don't think this is the soulary,
but I do think they had to go for the
line they had. Damian McKenzie came on and they kept
(06:55):
four second half penalties, three of those in the last
eighteen minutes.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
Now, in my mind, if Sam White Locke or.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
Ardie Severe as captain, I don't think there's any question
that they would have at least had one crack at
the line, a mall try put down a scrum where
they had dominance, just at least had one go at it.
And you know, I can understand the reasoning that you
look to get back down there again one point game,
you force a penalty and kick the winning goal. But
(07:25):
it just felt like at that moment in the match,
Sel Blacks needed to put the foot on the throat,
they needed to have a go and that was I
think that will be a real learning moment for Scott
Barres's Captaincy.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, let's hope it is. I think.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, it is easy to say in hindsight because you
know the score of the try, no one's going to
go back and go gee. I wish they've done it
in threes instead. But it felt like with the time
that was left, when McKenzie set himself up for that
last penalty goal, it would have been best set to
go for the corner and have for the attacking line
(08:03):
out inside the twenty two and set yourself up.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
The line out. Muller had a little wobble bar spy
and large.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
You know, he had a great game at double in
the week before, so you would have backed him to
get to the right target. Even if they didn't, you know,
France will have to presumably clear it outside the twenty two.
The All Blacks should get the ball still deep inside
French territory. So yeah, I think it was the wrong
call I actually liked Scott Barrett actually postgame saying, you
actually don't know if it was the right call or
on and he was torn, and he remained torn after
(08:34):
the game whether he made the right call in his head.
I think it is a learning moment for Scott Barrett.
And you know, maybe a little bit more ruthlessness required
from the All Blacks not only in that decision, but
across the eighty minutes and indeed perhaps even across the year.
Without wanting to verge too far into season review material
(08:54):
just yet with the game to go, but you know,
the ruthlessness that the All Blacks teams in the past
have had, just little bits missing from the team at
the moment. There's certainly plenty of attack, but an endeavor
just that ruthlessness in the twenty two and on attack
is missing at the moment.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
That's right, and it stuck for them in the first
half those passes, but the French were able to slow
the pace, make it a grind and then just pounce
on the All Blacks mistakes and a couple of those
in particular that we need to touch on. You know,
Courtiers Lastima's performance off the bench as in the spotlights.
(09:34):
He got pained for taking too long at the ruck
trying to do a box kick, which was a fifty
to fifty decision. I don't think that was fairly policed
across the whole game. And then there was a tough
line out throw that he lost as well off the
(09:56):
top ball. And my question to you is do the
All Blacks need to be a wee bit more flexible
about the introduction of their bench because we talked last
week and I also wrote something that they have flipped
the script on their bench because they had the final
quarter fades and the Rugby Championship. But then we saw
it Twickenham and in Dublin the bench making a massive impact.
(10:21):
They went They went to the bench quite late in
this game. They only introduced the front rowers with about
eighteen minutes remaining.
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Patrick Tuo Polocho was a wee bit before that.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
But cam Roygate in particular, he's out playing one of,
if not the best players in the world in Anton DuPont,
playing out of his skin. Again, It's easy in hindsight,
isn't it to look back and say you shouldn't have
replaced him.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
But what's what's your view on that?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Well, I thought it was early.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, I thought it was early when they substituted him,
given the way that he'd been playing, and didn't sound
like there are any injuries. Obviously he is coming back
from an injury. Certainly postgame there was nothing of the
sort mentioned. So I think it was too early, and
I think, you know, I feel the All Blacks. You
need to keep your best players out in the field
(11:07):
for as long as possible, and even if it's in
a half back role where buying large you know, players
are substituted late in the game because it is a
position that requires and demands a lot of you. I
think you need to be a little bit more flexible
around that and getting you know, even seventy minutes out
of the Cambroy Guard, the way that he was playing,
(11:27):
if he could get to that point, would have been
maybe a bit of a difference maker in that game.
You know, often you see them change the halfbacks to
change the tempo of the game. Well, I think Camboy
Guard was setting the tempo of that game and went
a little bit backwards when Cortez Razima came on the park.
So I think that is still a learning curve. We
talk about learning curves for Scott robertson of Scott Barrett.
(11:49):
That's one for Scott Robinson. Just around the bench and
how best to deploy those players. French went in with
a six to two bench, which meant that they had
a reserve halfback. But and do Pop moved out to
ten late in the game when Ligorak came on the park.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
So you know that was slightly different.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
But they kept too pinned out there for the full
eighty minutes because they know the impact that he has
on a game. Well, you know, to be honest, Cam
royguard in this All Blacks team at the moment. I
know he's only just come back, but he's providing some
of the sparks, so surely you wund out him out there.
He's a hell of a fit athlete, he got that
Bronco test earlier in the year before that injury.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Out there as long as possible.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Yeah, I totally agree, And I think half back, while
it is a very anaerobic position, you're doing a lot
of running.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
If you think back to Aaron Smith, he used to
play massive minutes.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
The World Cup Final, he played seventy eight odd minutes
before you know, Finlay Christie came off the bench and
just on that, you know, I think it really does
show the folly of that decision in the World Cup
knockout games that cam Roygard wasn't on the bench for
those knockout fixtures. But cam Roygard, as you mentioned with
(13:01):
the Bronco Test, he's one of the fittest in the
All Blacks. I think he was playing exceptionally well. You know,
he picked the pock for that tri a thief in
the Paris Knight. Brilliant piece of individual play there. But
also just his ability. His size is underrated, but you
know everyone looks at his running game and his big
left boot, but the All Blacks rap presentation as a
(13:24):
touched on before has not been great in the past
two weeks and canroy Guard copes with that very well.
Because of his size, he's able to shake off defenders,
he doesn't get too rattled there, and he was dealing
with that French pressure and you know, making good decisions.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
So I would have left him out there a lot
a lot longer.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
As you mentioned, upon played the full eighty minutes jameson
Gibson Park another huge influence for Ireland. He often plays
eighty minutes, so it is common for half backs to
play big minutes, so I think the All Blacks botched
that that change.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, quarters, Racham has had a good season on his
rookie year for the All Blacks, but just Fils over
the last two or three weeks has been a few
things that he needs some prove on heading into twenty
twenty five, and that comes with every position. I'm sure
on the park, let's talk before we wrap up around
the refereeing and both put the boot in too much.
(14:19):
But Nika Amisha Kelly. Again, the issue for me with
World Rugb at the moment is there are not enough
good referees to go around. I think that's plain and
simple the truth. At the moment, there are referees that
have been elevated too early. If you're in the UK,
you tend to get elevated on that path very early.
(14:40):
But they clearly want referees from around the merging nations.
That's why they've got Nika Amisha Kelly. He's had a
couple of All Blacks tests previously and other tests around
the globe. I think he struggled with the pace that
both teams are wanting to play at and made some
curious decisions, aided by his TMO that you had a
(15:02):
big influence on the game, the offer tong of Faci
nick Roll. While it's been three days, I'm still struggling
to see where exactly that was. And there were some
other ones as well. He seemed unwilling to reward the
all Blacks at scrum time, just didn't seem to want
to go near it. He gave one penalty and then
basically washed his hands of the whole affair. So I
don't want us to be seen as a criticism of
(15:23):
him necessarily, But I think the big issue with World
Rugby at the moment is the rulebook is too complicated.
There are very few referees who can keep up with
it and manage a game, which is essentially what they
have been tasked with as managing these games as well
as refereeing it. And now you've got referees that are
elevated above their station too early, and I think that's
(15:43):
partly why there are so many issues around it at
the moment.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
Yeah, that was a massive issue, and I do agree
about the standard of international refereeing on the whole seene
some very experienced referees, Wayne Barnes and the light move
on in recent years and the standard has dipped quite significantly.
Speaker 5 (16:00):
And I also agree.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
That there's a desire from World Rugby to promote these
guys on the basis that you want to cross section
of countries and as you mentioned, emerging nations. But there
there's always a bit of a lottery when he's in charge.
It's hard to escape that. And I don't think he
should be getting these big tests at this stage in
(16:22):
his career. Maybe he'll improve, but I don't think he's
there yet. And yeah, that neck role in the context
of that result, that was a terrible decision. That is
such a fifty to fifty call for the TMO to
intervene the scrum as well. Yeah, the All Blacks are
very dominant, pushing the French back and they weren't called
(16:45):
So that was definitely a contributing factor. It wasn't the
sole reason the All Blacks lost, but I think behind
closed doors there will be a lot of frustrations. Now,
now look, you know we've been reasonably critical, I guess
on the whole, but what about some of the individual performances,
for you, Elliott, for the All Blacks, one guy in particular,
(17:05):
Peter Luckeye comes off.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
The bench and has set can test.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I was very vocal about the fact that I wanted
this guy, twenty one year old prospects been playing out
of his skin in the NPC and Super Ragby for
a couple of years. I wanted him in the squad
from the outset. He only got called up because the
injuries comes on play seventy eight minutes outstanding, EF it
(17:30):
wasn't it? And some others for you.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, he was excellent.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Very impressed by him coming and you know, one minute
forty five into the game, playing the reas much longer
than he would have expected. I thought he was superb
and that bodes really really well for the makeup of
that loose Ford trio comes twenty twenty five. Is going
to be interesting to see how that all shakes down
and which position each player finds themselves in. We just
(17:54):
mentioned the scrum, but I thought to Maati Williams was excellent,
probably his best test for mine. You know, there's been
a lot of conjecture back home around where Ethan de
Groot's gone through. Well we know where he went to
for England out of the team stood down, but time
to put some respect onto Mudy William's name because he
was excellent again and he was the previous week as well,
(18:17):
and I thought it was his best test. Didn't get
rewarded necessarily the penalties at scrum time, but I thought
he was superb. Cam Royguard obviously, as we touched on before,
I thought was a tet as at that point where
he's not having bad tests, he's everywhere and rdisav I
thought was his best test and a few tests as well.
So a lot to like actually from the All Blacks.
(18:37):
And here's the thing Liam, my dad messaged me after
the game and he made a very good point and
he said, if the All Blacks before the tour, you know,
would win two of those big games and lose the
other one by one, I think most people would have
taken it.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Would you have?
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Yeah? I would have.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
It is a good point. I think both of us
predicted that'd go. They dropped one test on the tour,
and as I mentioned last part, I think he really
struck some form in the tipping department because he said
that beat Island.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
I said that to Ireland. You said they lose to France.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
I said they beat Front So yeah, who knows you
might be able to flip the script and carry that momentum.
But on the context of this tour, I think on
the provisor that they do beat Italy and put out
a comprehensive performance there.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
It's been.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Surprising, I think from the All Blacks, but there is
context to that as well. They could have easily dropped
that England test, So there is improvement. There is evolution
from this all Black team, but it's just it is
frustrating that they let that test slip because it was
there for the taking. Just one other player that you
didn't mention, Caleb Clark. I think he was outstanding on
(19:51):
the left wing, made big meters with every touch, seems
to be getting involved a lot, and he's a guy
that wasn't really in the picture, you know a year ago,
struggled to crack this all Black team. So he cemented
that left wing role. And I think we also saw
Mark Tale. His absence was massive and the loyalty I think,
(20:12):
and severa Reese has been misplaced. He got that one
incept but then lacked pace and then for the runaway
trier for France that was very stark hit. Severa Reese's
lack of pace and just how blitzed he got, so
I think interesting to see where that goes. But Mark
de Lea's absence on the right wing really felt and
(20:35):
Artie Severe as you mentioned, back to his back to
the future, wasn't it going reverting to open soide flanker
roaming the wide channels. He had a big influence in
Peter Luckeye's opening try busting tackles. So the composition of
that loose for trio very intriguing going forward.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Indeed, it is one Reese I think you know, you
mentioned Calen Park was out of form or wasn't part
of the squad a year ago. You know, maybe the
same will happen with severa Reese and we're here in
a years time saying, you know, he's found his way
back in, but it feels like he is drifting out
of this all blacks environment at the moment, just in
terms of his necessity to be there.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
In all honesty, as you mentioned, Mark Kalaier was superb, but.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I just think that he doesn't have the pace anymore.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
He came up the fact of that big injury. Of
course in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
He's very good in super rugby and a poor crusader's side,
But just feels like father time might be catching up
a little bit with Seva Reese. He's twenty seven now, which,
as we know, is the year that All Blacks wingers
basically no longer worth anything.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
So I mean that in the kindest possible way.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So look, you know, there's a big question mark I
think over him heading into twenty twenty five, isn't there?
Speaker 5 (21:51):
There is? Indeed?
Speaker 4 (21:52):
And what about just the blueprint for the All Blacks,
because it was very notable in this game the lack
of kicking, so clearly they didn't want to get into
you know, aerial ping pong with France because of DuPont.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
And the French liking they kick.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
France kept longer and more often than any other team
in international rugby, so they've clearly done their homework.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
There will Jordan cart and the ball back.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
I think they probably the balance tip too far into
holding the ball and maybe a bit of fatigue in
the second half contributed to those costly handling errors. But
I do like that from the All Blacks that they
are wanting to attack. They're wanting to use the width
and stretch teams and bring attacking chaos to their game
(22:38):
and it did work for them in the first half,
but just finding that balance it's tough, isn't it. Ali
and the international arena between the short kicking game, to
counter rush defense, to shape the defense and get them behind,
and to use your attacking instincts and offloads and ball
movement and skill that is right across the park with
(22:59):
this aw Black team when you talk about to Mighty
Williams and Wallace a tt and to provide and you
know how athletic is this saw book full pack. They
are outstanding, but you've got to strike that balance and
maybe it just tipped it a little bit too far.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, I think it did have a little too far.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
What I do like, though, Liam, is the game plans
that are in place, and largely they are working for
the All Blacks. Obviously that was a defeat on the weekend,
but there are tweaks to the game plans that we're
seeing for different opposition that I think are paying dividends.
And you've got to have those things in your back
pocket as a test team. A plan A, plan B,
Plan C for how the opposition attack, and I think
(23:37):
we're seeing that from the All Blacks now but there
are different strategies in place, so that to me is
a pretty big tick. Let's move on to what we
expect this weekend against Italy and the final test of
the year in churin, Italy. Coming off a narrow win
over Georgia on the weekend. What's your expectation for the
(23:59):
team that will be selected by the All Blacks announced
Friday morning amongst the snowstorm on Thursday here in Turin
Liam Will it be whole sale changes, minimal changes somewhere
in between.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
I think it'll be wholesale, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
That's been a big old year, massive three weeks for
the All Blacks. Those grueling tests I think they were
basically in the space of fifteen days, so it's got
to be some massive fatigue and batter than bruised bodies
among those starters.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
So I think you'll see Sam Kine and CJ.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Petinara come back for their last outings for the All Blacks.
I think you'll see probably Damien McKenzie start at tech
and again Stephen Peter Fetter at fullback. I think guys
like Brocton need to come into the midfields. I think
there will be wholesale changes Ethan de Groot, I imagine
comes back for a start. He's been out in the cold,
as you mentioned, following the discipline issue. Good what is
(24:56):
it three weeks ago now and you've got guys in
the squad who would have been holding tackle pads, preparing
the starters, and they need to finish the year with
some sort of some form of encouragement.
Speaker 5 (25:07):
So Italy haven't been great.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
You know, you mentioned the Georgian result there, but they've
struggled in recent weeks to really put any compelling form together.
So I think you'll see something close to the Japanese
team because a number of those guys haven't played since.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
You know, they need a chance, don't they They do.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I don't know that Ovia his wholesale as that necessarily
look at. I think you look at some players like
Cody Taylor. You know he set out the Island Test stuffer.
Amoa had two big tests in a row, one by
design one by Taylor going off against England. So I
think Taylor might start this week again Ethan de Groot. Certainly,
(25:50):
maybe Passily Otossa gets the start. I wonder with Semipenny
Feenal being out with they look at Scott Barrett on
the blind given perhaps the lack of options in the
squad around that position. Whilst the Titi has had four
tests in a row now, he's had a big year,
he's nominated for a World Rugby Award. I just you know,
you wonder whether they just need to give him a
(26:12):
little bit of a spell, even though he's about to
get into his off season. So you know, Boden Barratt
miss that test as well, So there's a few things
to balance.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Sam Kaine, you'd suspect will start. T J Petanarra maybe
gets a.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Fee weell test off the bench as well, and then
you maybe look at David Havali Anton then a Brown
getting some game time as well. But there are a
few balances, and there's probably going to be some players
that are you know, short on game time and we're
not going to get much game time on this tour.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
But sometimes the way the cookie crumbles.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Yeah, it's Ruben Loves one guy that we haven't really mentioned.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
He only got five or ten minutes off the bench
against Japan on the right wing, but one of the
most I think exciting attacking prospects very much, and he's
on rugby very much in the in the in the
will Jordan Mold so I'd like to see him include
it off the bench and give him, you know, good
good stint in the second half. But and Billy Prop
(27:08):
as well as the guy that hasn't had enough game
time this year in my mind, So for me, I
think it'd be great to see him start at center
and get another crack because I think he's only played
two tests this year if I'm right, in Fiji and Japan,
and he was the form midfielder throughout Super ab So
(27:29):
pretty keen to see him get another run around. No surprises, Elliott,
that's wanting to see a few more Hurricanes in the mix.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
No, I'm just not sure he's come back from the
birth of his first child. Is the only things that
may keep him out of the mix. I know you've
been banging the drum for some time. You'd like to
see Schaffie Hockey in the team as well.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Well.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
Look, I think there's a ecuoy in New Zealand as
we speak, Elliott, and fair to say, I think people
are already taken to the streets about Shaffie Hockey's inclusion,
so Razors should tread very carefully on that front.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, be your idea enough before we wrap up Harry
Plummer sounds like he's going to go to ACM Clement
and continuous rugby Korea thereafter Super Rugby in twenty twenty five. Look,
you sometimes you take those reports in French media with
a grain of salt, but the soult has been spread
around relatively wide in this instance in French media over
(28:25):
the last twenty four to forty eight hours. Sounds like
he's going certainly my understanding anyway, and you know, off
the back of his one test for the All Blacks
this year he's currently injured, not with the team in camp. Look,
you know, good on them for going and chasing the
overseas deal. But I think it's a bit of a
lost to New Zealand rugby when Harry Plumber goes.
Speaker 5 (28:47):
It will be a loss, it is.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I guess it's a shame that a guy, you know,
coming into the prime of career, he's done the hard yards,
through injury and come through a lot of adversity and
then leads the Blues to a Super Rugby title, probably
the most unheralded first five to a degree in New
Zealand rugby.
Speaker 5 (29:05):
History.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
Really, the Blues have had Carlos Beer and Bowden Barrett and.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
How many other you know.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
First Five's pumped up to be the next big thing
and Harry Plumber, local boy comes through and takes them
to their first title and you know, twenty odd odd years.
So look, he's he's It's a smart move for Harry.
I think that his pathway to the All Blacks is
largely blocked, particularly with Richard Mwonga highly likely to come
(29:36):
back in July next year.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
He's got an All Blacks cat.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Beside his name now, Harry Plumber, so your cash and
while that's hot, and I'm sure he's been offered a
great deal and it'll be a great lifestyle for him
in France. Also here in Ricky Ricky Talley Elliott's likely
off to Montpellier as well, So I think that will
probably be for twenty twenty what's that twenty twenty sixth.
(30:04):
So yeah, the Blues, I guess losing a couple of
guys who are interested me too on their title and
the coming years. But it does make sense for the
stage of career that they're they're at, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
It does, And you know, I think both players you
can't begrudge them going overseas that at the point. For
rookie Rocqauseilley, clearly the writings on the wall around his
All Blacks ambitions given he to the All Blacks fifteen Tour,
and Harry Plummer probably get the sense of where he
is in the pecking order and I think, yeah, I
(30:35):
think that's probably about right for both of those players.
But again, it just takes away that that middle crust
from New Zealand rugby and some of those key players
you know around Super Rugby and the NPC that have
been you know, formative for their provinces, formative for their
Super Rugby teams in some success in recent years. Just
(30:56):
losing that middle layer I think does hurt.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
So yeah, big.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Loss for both of those players, all their respective unions
and of course the Blues as well. We will take
a break here on Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions
and come back with the final four after this.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Try it had sixty secondary tackle get up age.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
Before It's Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Back now on Rugby Direct with the final four for
rugby topics. Them and I had debate them all, Liam,
the continued chatter on the live if one style rugby tournament.
Another report over the weekend, if I recall rightly it
was in the Times, might have been the Telegraph, I'm
trying to think, but certainly one of the UK based papers,
(31:54):
similar detail to what we've seen previous week or so
a little bit more said that a lot of players
are on or have been targeted, with deal sort of
tentatively in place. Hard to know too much about this
given it's all shrouded in secrecy, but should world rugby
be concerned?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Are you concerned around the way this is tracking?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Well?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Where there's smoke this fire, Elliott, So I think there
needs to be a degree of concern, but we don't
know yet. There's no concrete information about who's the money man,
where's the money coming from? And that's the big question here,
how much does this evolve? Because I did have a
few background conversations on this yesterday, and you're talking about
(32:41):
somewhere in the vicinity of four hundred to five million
dollars that you're going to need to back something like this.
You're looking at two hundred and forty men's players, one
hundred and twenty women's players fourteen games a bit of
a traveling circus, so it's a massive amounts of financial
backing that you need to pull something like this off.
(33:02):
But this isn't going away, is it. As you mentioned,
we discussed this a couple of weeks ago, and it
now does seem to be gathering some steam. I think
players in England in particular maybe the first to jump
and get on board.
Speaker 5 (33:17):
There's a bit of friction there between the players and the.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Union and and then wanting wanting more, and and the
local landscape they're changing. So interesting to see where it goes.
But I'm curious. I need more detail. And it does
come down to dollars and cents, doesn't it. Who's going
to stump up with what is some serious amount of
(33:42):
money to make this get off the ground.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Indeed, Rugby's had a history of this sort of stuff.
There was Global Rapid Rugby which promised plenty, there were
the twelves for a half second. There have been other
things that have gone on previously. It'll either go one
of two ways. I suppose It'll be like either those
aforementioned things, or it will be like the you know,
(34:08):
WRC five and could threaten to pull the game apart,
sput the game in two, and the only benefit from
the latter would be it may force World Rugby into
making changes. And you know, sometimes, you know, a threat
like this can elevate and make things happen more quickly.
(34:31):
You get into a sense of single swim mode, so
and may force them into doing things outside the box.
I don't know but what they might be. But sometimes
a bit of pressure is, you know, is what sport
sports organizations need. Not saying it's a good thing by
any measure, but sometimes you know, a little bit of
(34:52):
heat breathing down the neck isn't necessarily the worst thing
for some of the you know, the global power brokers,
be they World Rugby or some of the international national federations.
Speaker 5 (35:03):
That's right, And look, the landscape is changing.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
If you look at some of the the players, even
in the New Zealand landscape. Artie Severe is a massive
icon somebody who knows is worth. So if something like
this is floating around, I have no doubt that uziand
rugby players will look at it and see what's on offer,
decide what's best for them, and you know, weigh things
(35:28):
up when you look at the top All Blacks. We've
seen in recent years many of them go to Japan
and come back, So there is a potential for them
to go to this breakaway World League if it does
fit in the international calendar. But the All Blacks are
still a massive lure. The World Cup still a massive lure.
(35:49):
International rugby is the cream dela creme, and we've seen
that in recent weeks.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
Haven't we the stage in France? Who were there in Paris?
Speaker 4 (35:57):
What a magnificent atmosphere and occasion and players want to
be on that stage. So if they have to give
that up to go and play in this breakaway league,
I think that would be very hard for them because
money isn't everything and playing on those big stages, representing
their country, playing at the pinnacle of the sport is
still a massive driver for athletes in the prime of
(36:21):
their careers.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, World Rugby needs to protect that and not go
the way of cricket where franchise sport franchise cricket rules
international cricket has done for a few years now. So
World Rugby does need to be cognizant of the threats.
Speaking of World Rugby Award nominees, Outs and Sprinkling of
(36:43):
New Zealand is nominated, what Iss the Tity, Breakthrough Player
of the Year, Hannah King, the Black Fans Pivot and
Breakthrough Women's Player of the Year, michaleebe Blyth, Georgia Miller
in the Sevens Awards, and Georgia Ponsonby as well nominated
for Women's Teens Try of the Year. But from a
wider picture of Liam, any surprises are missions that stood
(37:04):
out for you.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
Not on the whole Elliot.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
It's great to see using a woman well represented, which
is a reflection of how well they've gone, particularly on
the seventh scene from I guess it's disappointing from an
all Blacks point of view not to see some form
of representation in the Player.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Of the Year nominees.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Yet I'd be disappointed if Wallace the TC doesn't win
Breakthrough Player and knows quality competition in the English Winger
and Sasha that the spring Box First five as well,
but he's been the clear standout for me. The one
I think frustration glaring emission in the context of World
(37:49):
Rugby Awards in the entirety as there's never been. Elliott's
are prop nominated for the Player of the Year and
I know there's a bit of consternation out there that
ox Niche is not part of that mix. There is
three spring box, which is I think fair. They've led
the world in recent years and they still hold them
mantle in the global context. But what does the PROP
(38:12):
have to do to get nominated for that award?
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Well, very good question. Tyger Furlong had an excellent year
about five or six years ago. I think's had a
few excellent years. Tyger Philon might not be the player
that he once was, but he was at one point
I thought deserving of a nominee.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
There have been other.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Players as well that would have claims to that, someone
you know, perhaps like a troll. Lomax even might be
in the conversation for some of his efforts over say
twenty twenty three, not saying he'd win it necessarily, but
he'd been there thereabouts in terms of probably being the
world's best tight head for a time. So I look,
(38:55):
it seems like there are blinkers on from the World
Rugby Awards Committee around the Props, and look that maybe
they need a union or something like that to form
and get some recognition from the top brass, because seems
like the blinkers are on at the top topic number three.
Let's continue the World Rugby three and Brett Robinson the Australian.
(39:16):
As Mike Robinson told us a couple of weeks ago,
he was New Zealand Rugby's choice. He gets the top job,
first man from the Southern Hemisphere to get it since
it was a contestable position some twenty eight years ago.
I guess the question for you, Liam, is anything going
to change under Brett Robinson's stewardship is.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Chair Well, I think it'll be a progression Elliott, of
what we've seen in terms of the priorities around the
style of the game, hopefully which is pleasing from an
entertainment perspective, creating more pace and tempo, less TMO influence,
so prioritizing rugby as an entertainment product, hopefully ushering through
(39:58):
the twenty minute red card and those sorts of things. Interestingly,
I think he only just knucked through by two votes,
and I don't think he heads out the Frick's support,
which is quite telling in terms of the difference of
opinion in among the heavyweight sans Are nations. I think
(40:19):
if you look at it objectively, it's good for New
Zealand rugby and the established elite. But someone like Benazi,
his main competition did. Part of his pitch was very
much around bringing through Tier two, having more Tier one
against Tier two competition in the international arena. So I
(40:42):
don't I don't think it's it's great for Tier two rugby.
Britt Robinson will very much support the nation's championship and
those sorts of things. What sort of big ticket items
do you see him trying to push.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Well, probably not his remit, but I would like him
to sort out, you know, some of the officiating and
some of the rule book issues around the game. Again
not necessarily his remits necessarily, but I guess it forms
a pole of game picture picture that I think is
you know, an issue for world rugby at the moment.
(41:17):
You know, he obviously a twenty four team Men's World
Cup in twenty seven that I think the jury is
still out on around that format and whether it's a success.
So you know, I think there are a lot to do.
I think that the key things for him, as you say,
tear toundations not necessarily on board with it, wasn't part
(41:39):
of his pitch compared to Benazi, So he's got a
bit of work to do there to bring them on
board and bring them.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Part of the game.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
There are a number of challenges inside the game at
the moment financially, you know, around franchise rugby and everything
like that that he'll have to look at too. So yeah,
it's a fairly big inbox for Brett Robinson as he
gets down to the chairmanship over the next few months
and interesting to.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
See how that progresses topping.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Number four in the final four Lee Let's get into
some predictions for the final proper full weekends of the
Autumnation Series, and Ireland and Australia play the following weekend.
But let's look at this weekend full slate of fixtures.
Speaking of a Tier one bias, let's look through these
Tier one fixtures. France versus a Argentina rather Friday nights
(42:31):
local time. It starred to France, three from three from
France after they went over the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
Oh it's the tough one to tip there, Elliott. The
Poems pushed Islands to the brink, didn't they. And Dublin
and are a team on the rise. But yeah, France
at home, they've got a great record in Paris pretty
hard to beat.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
The must start to France, so stick with the French.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, Le's stick with the French on that front as well.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Ireland Fiji at the Aviva come Saturday afternoon local.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
Time should be reasonably straightforward for Ireland to expect.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
It'd expects so.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
But they've you know, didn't think they were that great
against Argentina. In all honesty, you know what going to
shock the world and get a winner of Ireland and that's.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
You've always been a big Duror fan, So no surprises there.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
I've seen them beat the Crusaders far too often to
underestimate them. Liam Wells, South Africa. This would be pretty
special for Gats to get a big win over Russy,
wouldn't it.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
It'll be special to the Gats to have his last
game in charge of Wales. Certainly a lot of heat
building in Cardiff and the valleys. They've got the pitchforks out.
They're storming, storming Cardiff. So look, it's going to be
another dark day, isn't that. Whales falling to eleven straight
(44:04):
defeats their worst run in history. And that was a
fish lacking by the Wallabies, wasn't it. So I was
in a very dark place at the moment and it's
not going to get any better against the World Champs.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, I can't see it. Ethlee Newer, we didn't give
a tip for that. Are you going with your Italian
roots and backing an upset?
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (44:24):
The head of the Hearts torn torn hair, very very
very torn.
Speaker 5 (44:29):
But I think the All Blacks might just sneak that one.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I think so to Scotland. Australia is the Grand Slam
on for the Wallabies.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Look, I'm going to say Scotland in the Grand Slam. Unfortunately.
I think the Wallabies are a team on the rise,
but Scotland can be quite tough to beat in Edinburgh.
So unfortunately, the Wallabies dreams. I don't think it's going
to come crashing down. It'll be a tight type ficture,
but I think Scotland put.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Them three from three Babby. It's coming home to Australia
and England Japan. Eddie Jones returning to Alian Stadium, leaving
leading the Brave Blossoms to glory, presumably Liam.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
No, No, he doesn't elliots it.
Speaker 4 (45:19):
He's building you know, you know, he's tired trope that
he's building for the next World Cup.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
It's all part of the master plan.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Japanel cop thirty point loss and you know it's all
about experience at this point in the in the in
the journey.
Speaker 5 (45:34):
As John Mitchell would say.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
What's Steve Borthwick building too?
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Well, he's under as much pressure as Gats at the moment,
isn't he? Three losses, three consecutive losses at Twickenham. I
think it's the first time since two thousand and six
England they've had that sort of run. They should have
beaten the Wallabies, probably should have been the all blacks
of a couple of missed George Ford opportunities at the end,
but they really faded badly against South Africa. The box
(46:02):
just know how to win those tight tests. Damian Delnde
and Cheeslin Colby combineding brilliantly at funished there. So Yeah,
a lot of heat coming for Seve worthwook and I
think we're seeing the effects of those coaching changes with
Felix Jones leaving a big loss for them, so they
desperately need one, don't they.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
They're doing indeed's right. That'll do us for Rugby Direct
for another week. Quit programming note that we won't be
back immediately after the game next weekend. I have a
few flights to catch back home, but we will endeavors
be back in your ears by the end of next
week to not only wrap up the game again Italy,
but the All Black season as a whole.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
So look forward to.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Doing that then and maybe even doing a podcast face
to face again.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
That'd be pretty special, wouldn't it, Liab.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
It'd be great to gaze into your eyes over a
vena and some fresh past that you're bringing home and transit,
So look forward to that.
Speaker 5 (46:56):
Elliott.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, I'm not sure we get a pass border control,
but I'll do my very best for Liam.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
That has been Rugby Direct for another week.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
I thanks to Lars and Bars English and of course
our thanks to Access Solutions elevating you and your business
to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
For more from News Talk st B, listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
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