July 15, 2025 • 57 mins
Ever caught yourself wondering if you were being "fake" in a social situation? Or perhaps you've judged someone else for seeming inauthentic? This fascinating conversation between David, Hannah, and Anna Sage explores the gray area between necessary social adaptation and problematic inauthenticity.
The trio introduces a new format called "Curiosity Conversations" - unstructured discussions that allow personal development topics to flow naturally and intersect in surprising ways. What unfolds is a thoughtful examination of how we present ourselves in different contexts and what that means about our authentic selves.
As they navigate this complex topic, each host brings unique insights. Anna questions how we know when we're crossing the line into "fake" territory, while Hannah shares her experience as someone who sometimes needs to "turn on" her social side despite being naturally more introverted. David challenges the group to consider whether judging others' authenticity is even helpful, noting "we're so caught up in the stories that we're telling ourselves about the situation that's based on our perspective, when most of the actual intent is based on the stories that they're telling themselves that we can't hear."
The conversation takes fascinating turns as they discuss physiological responses to inauthenticity, whether small talk can ever feel genuine, and the complex relationship between social intelligence and authenticity. Each host reveals their own method for determining when they're being true to themselves - with surprising differences between them.
Perhaps most compelling is their exploration of how we define our core selves beyond just our consciousness. Hannah identifies herself as fundamentally "loving," while Anna sees herself as "deep," revealing how our self-concept directly shapes our experience of authenticity in daily interactions.
Whether you're someone who craves deep connection or struggles with surface-level conversations, this episode offers valuable perspective on navigating social situations while honoring your true self. Give it a listen and join the curiosity conversation - you might discover something surprising about your own authentic nature.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk
about all things personalgrowth, personal development and
becoming your best self.
My name is David Sage and I ama self-worth and confidence
coach with Sage CoachingSolutions.
In today's episode, we're doingsomething a little different.
(00:25):
It's a concept I've beenplaying around with for a while,
but this will be the first timethat we're actually
implementing it.
I would say the closest thingthat we've done to this was our
episode on anxiety A little bitmore of a free flow conversation
about personal developmenttopics between three people.
But unlike our episode onanxiety, the goal of these
(00:50):
conversations is not tothoroughly cover one topic, but
to let the conversation go whereit's going to go in a much more
realistic and unregimented way.
This allows us to talk aboutmany different personal
development topics and to showhow they all blend together in
(01:11):
different conversations and inreal-world situations.
It also brings in a variety ofdifferent perspectives and
allows for us to cover thingsthat we probably wouldn't
normally on this podcast.
Today I have both of myreoccurring co-hosts my sister
Anna Sage and my wife HannahSage.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Sup.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We're going to be calling this format Curiosity
Conversations, because the wholepoint is to have a conversation
about personal developmenttopics.
Let it be what it's going to beand approach everything with
curiosity.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
It's as though you're listening in to David Hannah
and I just having a normalconversation, like we normally
would, without having to have abunch of preparation and
research done in advance.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
However, we're probably on better behavior for
this one.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Than normally.
Yeah, that's probably true, butit's also going to have a
definite focus on personaldevelopment topics to keep it
relevant to this podcast.
The other goal of this newformat, which we're going to be
cycling in in addition to whatwe've already been doing cycling
(02:27):
in in addition to what we'vealready been doing is to model
how to have productiveconversations around personal
development topics, and thenumber one way that we do that
is by approaching them with acuriosity mindset.
By approaching with curiosity,we open ourselves up to learn so
much more and let theconversation flow in the most
productive ways that it can, sothat you can have these types of
(02:50):
conversations with the peoplein your life.
But before we get into it, ourgoal with this podcast is to
share free, helpful tools withyou and anyone you know who is
looking to improve their life.
So take action, Subscribe andshare this podcast with them.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I don't know if I can put this into the most concise
words, but something I've beenthinking a lot about lately is
how, in different socialsituations, we act differently.
Some of that is normal and thenin other situations, you look
(03:37):
at someone doing that and think,gosh, they're so inauthentic or
they're being so fake authenticor they're being so fake.
So I've been thinking a lotabout what the gray area is in
what's the normal amount ofshifting and changing how you
act and behave and respond in asocial situation, versus what
(03:57):
makes it have a negativeconnotation of being fake or
inauthentic?
Hi there, lufie.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Connotation of being fake or inauthentic oh, hi there
, luffy, our cat just jumped onanna's back and wanted to be
part of the podcast, I guess hethought he could fit on the back
of the chair, but he's a littletoo chunky but, anna, I get
what you're saying because Ifeel like everyone has met
(04:24):
different people who at timesyou kind of have a moment of
feeling like maybe they arecoming across as quote unquote
fake, but then once you get toknow them you actually realize
that sometimes that just istheir personality, when to kind
(04:51):
of turn on some of the likecharisma and maybe not as deep
side, and when to let it getdeeper kind of thing.
And I think it depends a lot oftimes on level of
comfortability, what type ofevent it is, who's all there.
I think it just depends.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I think it just depends.
Yeah, I think that this is acomplicated topic because
there's so many factors in play,especially if you are in a
negative state or like a foulmood.
(05:25):
But they understand that ifthey were just going to be
authentic with it, they'd bedrawing everyone else down.
So they're putting on a littlebit of a facade in an attempt to
, you know, spare others fromthat.
I think there are times wherepeople are being fake because
they're trying to get something.
(05:45):
You know it's complicated.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, I fully understand how nuanced and
complicated it is.
I think what I've been tryingto sort out for myself in my own
mind is when is inauthenticitya negative thing?
If we're talking black andwhite, when is it more clearly
on the black end of like, yeah,this isn't okay, and when is it
(06:14):
actually a good thing to be alittle bit inauthentic?
You know, kind of thinkingabout those two extremes.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I think there's a lot of different relationships that
we're in.
Some of them are a little bitmore shallow and don't
necessarily need to go into adeeper place, especially coming
from someone who's a little bitmore.
I'm extroverted, but I'mnaturally more of an introvert,
so sometimes I'm social, yes,but sometimes I do need to turn
(06:42):
it on.
And that does probably comeacross as a little inauthentic,
because if I'm at a big partykind of thing, I don't naturally
usually want to be there.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So I kind of have to like hype myself up, get about,
and I've seen you kind of shifta little bit and be inauthentic
in moments, but it's never leftan impact on me of like, uh, or
(07:14):
like you know how do I, how do Isay that like it's.
You've never been inauthenticin a way that seems malicious or
seems, um, like it's gonna,it's hiding something bad.
You know what I mean.
It's like a positive thing.
It's just being extra positiveor polite or kind or you know,
(07:35):
right.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Do you feel that way, though?
Because you know me personallyand you know that I go to a
deeper level?
You know what I'm saying?
I think sometimes, if you don'tknow someone and you've never
seen that deeper side of themyou can jump to, oh, they're
always like this, they're alwayslight, and I think one of the
big things here is intent.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I think the intent behind whether somebody is being
true to themselves, authentic,is a big part of it, and I think
when you're reading that, theintent is not malicious when the
intent is to help themselvesget through a state or to make
the whole social exchange gobetter.
(08:19):
I think the biggest thing hereis trying to understand people's
intent.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I'm having a hard time picturing what you mean by
malicious.
Is there like an example that?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
maybe you could give Right.
That's what I was just thinkingof.
I think the most common thingthat comes to mind is when,
let's say, someone reallydoesn't like someone else, right
, like truly, how they feel theydon't like them at all but they
have to be in certain socialcontexts with that person.
(08:52):
They can't avoid them.
Okay, so then, although theyput on almost a facade of being
positive and friendly, askinghow they're doing all this kind
of you know polite, you can sortof tell that like, ultimately,
they don't genuinely care.
I mean, this is pretty extreme,but there are those
(09:15):
circumstances, right, where youhave to be in contact with
somebody that you really don'tlike, be it family, be it a
coworker.
I really read into itty bittymicro nuances of people and I
think I feel it in my gut when Ifeel like I don't think this
person actually is curious aboutme or likes me or genuinely
(09:39):
wants to know.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Let me ask you this, though Are those people that you
really care, if they care aboutyour life?
You know what I mean.
Like I know it's hard to.
It's a bitter pill to swallowof someone that maybe doesn't
care for me or doesn't want toget to know me, but the worst
that comes of that is that theydon't get to know you.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
That's true.
I think that if it's you know,just a coworker that you don't
really have to work with thatmuch, or an acquaintance, you
know that's easy to just be likeeh, that's fine, I don't need
to know you, you don't need tobe in my life.
But sometimes like what if itwas someone in your family?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's where it gets tricky right.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Mm-hmm.
I feel like you hear this a lotof times with like in-laws,
where it's like someone you arepushed into a relationship with
yeah, stereotypically.
Yeah, but it wasn't necessarilybecause you chose that
relationship.
It's because someone you lovechose that relationship, right,
which?
Speaker 3 (10:37):
makes sense, which, to be clear.
I just want to make it veryclear out here that, like this
is not me speaking aboutsomebody in my life, I'm just
coming up with examples of whenI think this would make the most
sense.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Right, we're just stereotyping.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, it's for the sake of example.
Let me start here.
I think malevolent is toostrong of a word, and I think
Malicious, maleficent.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Malelephant, I did.
I said malicious, okay, both ofthem are too strong.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I think it's more just like do they have a good
intent or a bad intent?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
and isn't that what malicious is, malintent?
True?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
but it has a strength of connotation to it.
Right, you can be like oh, thatwas mildly negative versus like
I'm going to kill you.
Those are both bad.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I mean, I feel like that's really extreme.
When I think of malicious, Iguess in the context I was using
it, it's like I really don'tlike that person and I can't
stand them.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Malicious is often used for things like I hope they
get fired, Like maliciousintent can be pretty strong.
That's why I'm saying like Ifeel like it is a little too
strong of a word for that, Okay.
So I guess I'm just saying whydon't we keep it a little more
neutral in the overall positiveintent and negative intent?
And the context matters a lot.
(12:04):
I think the closeness of thatrelationship, as you were
bringing up, makes a bigdifference.
But this is a very shades ofgray issue which is good for
figuring things out, but it's ahard one to figure out because
the lines are so blurry and itchanges so much based on each
individual instance of it.
The same person acting fakewith somebody that they don't
(12:28):
necessarily like to look good infront of other people is one
intent, but to try and keeppeace for the sake of not
causing a problem is another.
Being way over the top with itis one thing, and just being
lightly polite, just enough toget by, is another.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
There's also like mood swings.
That can be a littlechallenging when you feel like
you're in one place with someoneand then you have an
interaction with them and youkind of feel that superficial
energy.
They could just be having areally shitty day.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Agreed.
I typically like to believethat people are good and people
have good intentions.
Hurt people are the think wherepeople you know might be being
inauthentic because they're well.
Maybe their intent isn't to getdirt on someone or to talk
about them later or like youknow, but maybe I don't know it
(13:38):
happens.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It could be.
It's so case by case, though.
I feel like the most common waythat you see people being fake
in that type of a scenario isthat they are just trying to
look so good and gracious,despite you knowing that that's
not their intent.
It's like they want to come offthat way.
(14:02):
It's not so much about whetheryou think it.
They just want other people tothink that they care.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, I don't know, though.
Like there are certaincircumstances where I feel
really uncomfortable though,because I value authenticity in
people and I'm somebody who isso vulnerable and open and
willing to have deepconversations that when I'm
talking to somebody and it seemslike they don't, they may not
(14:31):
actually care about what they'reasking me.
They're just trying to bepolite.
I don't know how to interactlike that.
Like I'm like oh well, ifyou're asking me that I'm going
to go in depth, you know I don't.
Maybe that's more.
Something I need to work on ismeeting people where they're at
and having a little bit of alighter approach.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I found that I personally don't give people as
much grace as I probably shouldwhen it comes to this
specifically, like where Iassume negative intent a lot of
times, because I tend to be alittle bit more of a pessimistic
thinker when it comes to otherpeople, unfortunately.
So I feel like there are timeswhen I've been proven wrong,
(15:09):
which is like my favorite iswhen I assume someone is fake.
Someone doesn't actually care.
I see them turn it on and thenI find out that that's just who
they are and not fake.
But they're actually sweet andhappy and like content and they
wear their heart on their sleeve.
But because I'm so guarded, itlike comes across as so strange
(15:30):
to me.
I'm like whoa, how are you sofriendly and happy and like
right in everyone's face rightaway?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I think it's very easy for us to think that we're
better judges of people'sintentions on social situations
than we actually are.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Because we're so caught up in the stories that
we're telling ourselves aboutthe situation that's based on
our perspective, when most ofthe actual intent is based on
the stories that they're tellingthemselves that we can't hear.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Okay, yeah, that hit home for me.
I bet that a lot of times it'scoming from my own insecurity,
or maybe past interactions witha person and my own assumptions
and fears.
As I'm reading, you know thesocial cues, yeah, and it's not
(16:26):
really about them.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And while I think it's an interesting topic for us
to be discussing, when it comesdown to it in the moment I
don't know if it's really ourplace to be the judge of that,
because at the end of the day,since we can't be certain, we're
really just assuming theirintent, we're making an educated
(16:50):
guess, and then, when we getinto the functionality of it,
what is the alternative?
Let's say they are beinginauthentic and they don't
really like you.
Would you prefer that they justoutwardly stated that they
(17:11):
don't like you and caused moreof a scene and made it extra
awkward?
Wouldn't you feel like theywere being super rude and mean?
I don't know that thealternative is really any better
than them just beinginauthentic.
I think if somebody doesn'tlike you, it's not going to feel
good either way, but it's moresocially acceptable for them to
(17:32):
be fake about it.
I don't think.
I'd rather have somebody justbe straight up mean to me, and I
guess the third alternative isthat they're so good at being
inauthentic that you don't evenrealize they don't like you.
I don't know if I'd prefer thatone either, because then it's
just about not wanting to knowthat they don't like you, which
(17:56):
would mean that it's only okayif they're super skilled at
being inauthentic, and I don'tthink that's what we're looking
for either.
There's definitely value inhaving social intelligence and
being able to read other peopleand social situations well, but
at the end of the day, I don'thave control over what they
(18:16):
think of me, so I'm just goingto focus on my locus of control
and let them.
But what I do have control overis my own authenticity.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
That's a really good thought, because that makes
total sense.
I do have a question, though.
At what point, if it's arelationship that truly matters,
that you know you're going tohave for a very long time, at
what point do you have aconversation about it with that
person?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Or do you just never?
And then, 15 years down theline, you still are harboring
these feelings of they don'tlike me.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I feel like at some point it needs to be addressed.
Have that conversation.
Or is it more appropriate to dosome intrinsic thinking and
work on yourself and shift yourown thinking instead?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I definitely think that if somebody is a big part
of your life, having aconversation like real
conversations about some ofthese things and figuring some
of these things out isdefinitely going to have to
happen and maybe that results inboundaries, maybe things get
figured out.
Whatever that's going to be,having a constructive
(19:51):
conversation with somebodythat's going to be a big part of
your life can be a helpfulthing.
Now they might not be in aplace for it, but I am more
saying that once you've takenthose steps, you have a lot more
control over really monitoringwhether you are being authentic
(20:12):
and having a wider view of yourauthentic you.
I think if we turn it aroundand look at, like, what is being
authentic right, we might thinkthat somebody who is more
vulnerable is more authentic.
But I tend to not even love thephrasing of authentic self,
because I am authentically medifferently in different
(20:38):
situations.
Different parts of mypersonality come out with
different people, naturallybecause of mirroring, because of
the fact that I will meet themwhere they're at, or a certain
part of my personality is thepart of my personality that that
person shares.
Let's say, I'm having aconversation with a more
(21:00):
analytical person.
I'm often having a moreanalytical conversation.
Am I being inauthentic by notshowing all those other parts of
myself?
Am I just trying to hide all ofthat, or am I naturally just
having that piece of me becomemore elevated in that situation?
I think a lot of peoplestereotype themselves to be one
(21:25):
thing and then they think thatif they're not being that
stereotypical version ofthemselves in all settings,
they're not being theirauthentic self, when we're much
more multifaceted than that.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
This may be a good place to say if this is ringing
true for you as the listener.
We do have several podcasts outalready that deeper into who
you are authentically and whatmakes you who you are.
Is it you know your feelings?
Is it your physical body?
(22:12):
What actually is you?
And then even further back backin December of 2024, our 21st
episode was about how to winfamily and deal with difficult
people, and I think that couldreally relate into.
If you're in circumstances whereyou do want to try to have a
(22:32):
difficult conversation withsomebody, maybe who you've been
feeling is inauthentic with you.
That could be a really usefulresource for how to approach
that kind of conversation.
And what do you do whensomebody isn't in a place where
they're doing the work onthemselves to be able to hear
that?
Okay, but before I get us waytoo off track, I've been talking
(22:57):
a lot about how it feels toexperience someone else
potentially being inauthentic,but I want to circle back to
what David was saying earlierabout when I am being
inauthentic, right, like, whatphysiological response does my
body give me?
(23:17):
That's telling me I may bebeing inauthentic to who I
really am and what I reallythink and believe?
Like what do you experience?
What makes you feel like, oh,I'm not being real right now.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
The biggest tell for me is when I leave that
conversation not fulfilled and Ihave a moment of thinking what
coulda, shoulda, woulda been andfeeling like there was more I
could have brought to the table.
There's a lot of conversations,unfortunately, that I feel that
moment when I leave thatconversation of, oh, I should
(23:52):
have asked them how this wasgoing, oh, I should have told
them about this.
They could definitely relate tothat and probably give me some
advice when I feel like I missedout and it was of my own accord
, is when I realized maybe I wasprobably being inauthentic in
that moment.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Being harsh on yourself of like oh, I should
have done this.
Is that truly an indicator ofI'm being inauthentic right now?
Or is that judging yourself andbeing critical of yourself?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I think it's pretty easy for me to tell the
difference, because I am soharsh on myself I've talked
about it in the past where a lotof times my self-talk is like
bashing.
So I'd be walking away fromthat and be like, oh, you're so
stupid, oh you're people don'tlike you.
(24:47):
It would be a lot meaner if itwas being the like self-talk
kind of thing.
So that's where I feel like, oh, there's more I could have
brought to that and that's whenI feel like I'm not being
authentic.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Interesting.
So there's a different feelingin your body or a different kind
of thought that you have.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, it's more of like a gut response.
Okay, more of a disappointedresponse, ooh, as opposed to a
critical response.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I find this really fascinating.
I don't think I haveconceptualized it this way
before.
Thinking about the feeling thatyou have about the interaction
afterwards or a physiologicalresponse during is a unique way
of viewing it, at least to me.
(25:36):
Does that mean that everyconversation that you feel like
didn't go as well as it shouldhave or could have is
inauthentic?
Because I feel like sometimesthings just don't go as well as
they could have.
But does that really mean thatyou were inauthentic?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
No, because I don't think it has anything to do with
feeling like that could havegone better.
It's more of oh, I know thatthey would have had some good
insight if I would have sharedthis problem with them.
Oh, it's something that I knowthey would have been
compassionate to me in thissituation where they probably
could have helped me and givenme some insight, and that's when
I feel like maybe I could haveshared a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
So it's more like woulda, coulda, shoulda, in
response to a lack of yousharing something personal or
being open or authentic.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes, yep, especially because I tend to be a little
more guarded.
Do you have to have thought ofsharing that ahead of time?
Like what if it occurs to youafter the fact?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Do you then feel like you were being inauthentic?
No, it's usually like when Ifeel tongue-tied and stuck where
, I don't state it.
A lot of times it's somethingthat comes up in the moment for
me but I'm like, oh, I don'twant to trouble them or oh, I
don't really want to go intothat fully, like it's me
(27:03):
stopping myself.
Okay, and only I can be blamed,you know, for that kind of
moment, because they probablywould have been willing to go
down that deeper hole with me.
But I kept it lighter.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Which is so interesting to me, because I'm
sitting here reflecting tryingto figure out like wait a minute
, I'm the one that asked thisquestion, but what are my
responses?
How do I even know?
I don't really know how I wouldtell I'm being inauthentic, but
I do know how I would tell whenI'm being authentic.
(27:39):
I know the inverse.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Okay authentic.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I know the inverse.
Okay, I feel authentic tomyself in my interactions.
When my body feels at peace andfeels calm, I don't feel very
anxious and I feel like I don'treally care about what the
reaction may be, because I knowthat it's true to who I am and I
am very secure in who I am.
(28:12):
So then, it's almost theopposite of Hannah, I guess.
Okay, I did figure it out whileprocessing and verbalizing when
I'm being inauthentic, I'mcaring too much about how I'm
being perceived by the otherperson.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, that's very good.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
When I'm being authentic, I'm not caring about
how they're perceiving me Like.
Yeah, of course I would like tobe liked, but if I'm saying
something that I know is true towhat I believe, what I think,
who I am, and I see somebodyhave a negative response and I
am at peace with.
See somebody have a negativeresponse and I am at peace with
that, that's how I know I'mbeing authentic.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Right, you don't feel like you need to band-aid that
conversation and go back and say, oh, I didn't mean it, or
anything.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Right, and that's not to say I'm not uncomfortable or
disappointed when somebodyresponds in a way that's like,
oh, they didn't like what I hadto say, but it doesn't make me
doubt myself.
I'm still at peace with, like,you know what, that's who I am,
though.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
So so I think that I think about this a lot different
than either of you.
I think there is something tobe said about the feeling that
you have for it.
I also think that the pointabout not worrying about what
others are going to think makesa lot of sense, and I will say
(29:29):
that as I'm thinking about it.
Both of those resonate with me.
But where I struggle with it isthat what I think most people
would say is their authenticself is the gut reaction of how
they initially feel aboutsomething, and that they just
(29:52):
are going with their gut.
They're saying what first comesto them Right, because it feels
like that's me, that'sauthentic.
I'm not second guessing itbecause of another person, and
for me sometimes, when I do that, that is when I feel
inauthentic.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Because for me, it's not so much about the other
person.
I am somebody who likes tothink through and make sure that
I am coming across the way thatI intend to, so that I am
wording, saying or doingsomething in the way that feels
like me.
And sometimes the immediateresponse is not that, and
(30:39):
sometimes I am trying to get aspecific reaction out of a
person, but it's because myintention, my authentic
intention, is to make them feelgood or whatever it is, so I
will take the time to word it ina way that I think will achieve
(31:00):
your authentic intention.
Yeah, I guess that that will bereceived the best way, or, yeah,
accomplish what I'm trying toaccomplish in saying that, the
best that I can, which I realizein some ways sounds like the
opposite.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
No, I think that that goes along with what we're
saying.
I feel the same way as youbecause when you said initially,
you know most people wouldthink what's authentic is the
first thing that comes to mindthat isn't being influenced by
other people In my gut, I waslike no, that is not when I feel
most authentic.
I'm more like you in that whenI have enough time to think
(31:40):
deeply and ensure that what I'msaying resonates in my gut with
what I truly think and believe,that's when I have that secure
feeling, that feeling of peace,of like this is me, and it's
often the opposite.
That first thing that comes tomind that's more of the social
cue and social thing that's beendrilled into me, of like this
(32:01):
would be an appropriate thing tosay here, or this could make
them laugh, or this could youknow and it's more about the
immediate oh, I got to dosomething that's going to have
the response that's going tomake them like me.
That comes quickly to mindfirst.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Hannah, what are your thoughts about the way that I
conceptualize my ownauthenticity?
I'm realizing that I've neveractually heard somebody state it
that way, so I'm looking to seeif you have any thoughts or
insights from just being aroundme all the time.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I feel like what you're saying makes sense,
because you tend to be someonewho does take your time in
speaking and process what you'resaying before you say it.
However, my question for youguys is do you feel like you
can't be fully authentic inthese quick moments with people?
(32:57):
Because if you need this timeto really spend time figuring
out what you're going to say,how you're going to say it, who
you're talking to, what aboutwhen you're having a
conversation with someone at asupermarket, do you feel like
you can't fully get to thatlevel ever?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Oh, totally Okay.
That's how I feel.
That's why I think I value deepconversations so much, because
I hate hate's a strong word.
I really feel uncomfortable insmall talk conversations because
it really does feel like I justgo into social training mode,
(33:38):
right, like I was taught torespond this way so that they'll
walk away thinking oh, what asweet lady you know and not like
actually who I am.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Right, which is interesting because there's been
multiple situations in my lifethat I've met a complete
stranger in a supermarket andI'm hearing their whole life
story and I wonder if it'sbecause I don't need that time
to like go deep with someone.
It is a little bit more of aquicker response for me.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
So, you mean like the other person is sharing deeply
about themselves.
So maybe they're like us andthey don't feel like they can be
authentic in a quickerformatted conversation.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But they're in a supermarket when people say
hello, how are you Move on?
Get your shopping done?
What I'm saying is Right.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
That's the socially intelligent thing to do.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Right, but it feels so fake Because if you did, that
to every single person, right?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
a lot of them are like I don't want to have this
conversation, I know.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
That's why I hate when people say how are you?
Because I never feel like Igive a good response.
I give the I'm good.
How are you?
Because that's what is expected, but that doesn't actually
reflect what I'm experiencing.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
But the root of a lot of these things, of social
pleasantries, of unconsciouspleasant exchanges, comes from
base psychology.
It's the subcontext.
It's not actually about thewords.
It's like often we're justlooking for are you safe?
Right, like I am having aninteraction with you, are you
(35:12):
friendly enough that I can feelsafe?
And then the other person justsays something just friendly
enough that you can feel safe.
And then you're both like okay,good Language isn't always
about the words that are said.
It's more like oh, you'resocially aware, you understand
this situation, okay, we're good.
And I think small talk oftenaccomplishes a lot of
(35:35):
subconscious things for people,more so than the actual words.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Right, but what I was saying with the supermarket
analogy is that everybody'ssmall talk might look a little
different and some people'ssmall talk might get deeper,
quicker than other small talktalk might get deeper, quicker
than other small talk.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
I would say at that point it's not small talk,
though I think you are makingthat person feel comfortable
very quickly with your initialsmall talk.
That lets them decide to not dosmall talk.
Instead they decide to go deep.
Yeah, I agree, you're goingfrom small talk into a deep
conversation, because you'remaking them feel safe very
(36:16):
quickly.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Right, but coming from you, guys are more
processors than I am, so comingfrom that, you feel like you
can't have those kinds ofconversations with people
because they go too fast.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I'm going to say it depends.
I very much had those types ofsituations, but it's a conscious
choice as to whether I amputting myself in a place to be
open to going deep with people.
I think, from a processingstandpoint, I don't always have
to think about it.
(36:54):
There are many times where theinitial is worded the way that I
want.
So I think it's more like itgoes through a quick little
filter that checks if it is, andthen I say it.
It might be a slight pause, butsometimes it's a longer pause,
you know.
So I think there are probablytimes when it does inhibit me,
(37:19):
but I think there are also timeswhen I just consciously choose
not to go down that hole andpresent myself in a way to not
open that up.
For instance, if I'm at a partyand I run into somebody that I
don't know, depending on whetherI'm in a social state and
feeling like going deep withpeople or not, I will either
(37:43):
have a small talk interactionthat doesn't go far or, if I'm
consciously choosing to, itusually ends up going pretty
deep, because I know how to takethat small talk into something
that they're interested in.
That then goes deeper and thenI start seeing passion and it
becomes a much more interestingconversation.
But there are times where I'mjust not in the right state or
(38:06):
feeling that, where I don't evenattempt it.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
See, but that's where I think, putting myself in that
context, if I'm at a party andsomebody is trying to have a
small talk conversation with meand they're not looking to go
deep, it just feels inauthenticto me.
So I typically would try tokind of walk away or avoid that
(38:35):
sort of right, but you're alsoat a party.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Not everybody wants to have a sob fest, no offense
that sounds that sounds mean,but like no, everybody wants to
have a very deep conversation ata party.
Like take myself, if someone,if david, comes by and he can
read me and he's like what'swrong, I'm not going to tell him
.
Then, like I'm just going to belike go away, like go be a
party self, like I'm having I'mat a party.
(39:00):
I don't want to discuss thisright now.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Because it's the context at the place where we're
at matters.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
But I think that's why when I go to a party, I
usually don't go by myself andI'm usually there with somebody
that I'm just like okay, none ofthese people have seen anything
of the real me.
And then I kind of gravitatemore towards like even at family
gatherings, like I end upgravitating more towards the
family that I have closestrelationships with and having
more time and conversations withthem, because that's where I
feel authentic.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
And that makes sense.
I feel like that is a verynatural inclination and most
people do that because it takesless energy to get to deep.
But first off, I want to touchon the person in the grocery
store.
Sometimes that's really sweet.
Other times I've said hi tosomebody in an elevator and they
(40:16):
start telling me about all ofthe issues in their life and I'm
like ah, well, that's traumadumping.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Well, and the?
Speaker 1 (40:23):
social awareness.
You know, yes, they're being, Iguess, technically vulnerable,
but really it's hardcoreoversharing that makes everyone
involved really uncomfortableand I think a lot of people have
had those experiences withpeople that don't respect other
people's social boundaries andit causes a lot of people to
(40:44):
start with small talk.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
But what if they're being authentic to themselves?
Speaker 3 (40:52):
I think that's where the nuance here is tricky right,
Because you have to find thatbalance of is it socially
appropriate or not?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
So this is where I think authenticity isn't always
a good thing.
You have to weigh the balanceof what are the repercussions,
the effects of my authenticity?
Are they harming someone else?
Am I violating their boundaries?
And I think it's easy to assumethat being authentic is always
(41:26):
the right choice, but it mightnot be.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
And I was even thinking too, like we're talking
about authenticity as thoughit's this have to go deep, bear
my soul, vulnerability, sureSometimes, like I was just
thinking about it at familygatherings.
Sometimes authenticity is morelike I understand the person's
sense of humor.
They have a similar one.
We have shared history.
(41:49):
It's more like fun andlighthearted, but it still has
more depth than like hi, how areyou, how are the kids, what's
the?
You know?
Like it's, it has more depth.
It has you know it's not justasking questions, it's telling
stories, it's lightheartedthings.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
But I think it's not fair to make the judgment of
somebody that doesn'timmediately go deep.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Right, that's kind of what I was getting at, because
everyone knows the sages love toget deep.
It's something you guys areboth very good at and I
appreciate it immensely.
But there are times that youguys are looking to go deep and
I'm like I don't want to go deep, like please, I know, please,
keep me from this today, likejust not feeling it, and that's
(42:37):
okay, and I'm still beingauthentic to myself by not
wanting to go deep.
So I don't want anyone to thinkbecause you don't go deep with
people doesn't mean you're notbeing authentic.
It comes across differently fordifferent people.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
A hundred percent and I actually want to double down
on that with a couple otherexamples.
So it might not even be thatthey're not feeling it.
I brought up the example of theeither trauma, dumping or
oversharing because thoseexperiences can be very, very
awkward, taxing, very awkward,taxing.
(43:14):
They can leave people reallyguarded in these new situations
because they don't want to openthat door enough that they're
then stuck in that and I thinkthat has caused people to be
more guarded in their initialinteractions with people.
Because other people havestomped on their social
boundaries or because of othertimes that they have been
vulnerable, people have made funof them, made them feel like
crap when they were beingvulnerable.
(43:36):
They're exposed.
Well, that causes people to bemore guarded and not as ready to
vulnerability when they've hadpast experiences that show that
they aren't treated well.
So sometimes we have to becareful about not judging
somebody as not being willing togo deep.
They might just be scared to godeep and maybe you have to
(43:59):
start with something they'repassionate about.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Or maybe they don't need to go deep.
They might have enough in theirlives that they don't feel like
they need to go deep with everysingle person.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah, that's fair too .
I think, though, the differenceis, I've never once questioned
your authenticity.
Even when I was first gettingto know you and I think that's
the part that I was trying toflesh out is, even if you don't
want to go deep, because, likeDavid said, you have had
(44:36):
negative interactions and soyou're afraid to, I feel like I
can sense a little bit of thatlike fear, or a little bit of
that.
What would the word be?
Trepidation or Sure?
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Right In the intention.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
That doesn't.
Yeah, that doesn't offend me,that's okay.
I'm very comfortable when I cansense somebody's a little bit
you know nervous or fearfulabout, and that's why they're
keeping it light.
That's okay.
It's more so in the context ofwhen somebody is keeping it
light and you can tell there'slike I don't know how to put it
(45:07):
to words.
It's not necessarily malicious,but you can tell that they're
like, have zero interest inactually talking to you.
That's what bugs me.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
They're acting Like there is just clear being fake,
where you can just see that theyare putting on a face, a mask,
and they are very clearly justdoing this for show almost Sure.
And that can Just doing this forshow almost Right, and that can
be very upsetting.
But no matter who the person is, everyone is authentic
sometimes, and I find that themost common time that you will
find somebody being authentic iswhen they're talking about
(45:46):
something that they'repassionate about, because the
energy just flows out of themand we see our passions, the
things that we are interested in, as a part of ourselves,
usually whether it be through atitle like I am a reader, I am a
(46:09):
teacher, whether it's your jobor whether it's a hobby.
I think we ascribe all of theselabels that are often related
to things that we like, likepassions.
But we're not that simple.
There's a lot more to us thanjust those labels, but I think
they are still sort of a part ofour own self-concept.
(46:31):
At our core, we are theconsciousness that experiences
our life, but in order to have acoherent sense of self, it's
more than that.
So I'd be curious to hear howthe two of you think about who
you are beyond just theconsciousness.
(46:53):
Who is Anna?
Speaker 3 (47:06):
It's a really hard question to answer in words
right now.
It feels like something I couldponder for hours and constantly
adjust and adapt and have avery deep, abstract answer to.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Does that answer play into how you think about
whether you're being authentic?
Speaker 3 (47:22):
What Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
What are you?
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Hold on, let Hannah answer, because I'm in a mode of
processing and thinking and Iwas just like huh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
So, as David said that, I kind of said uh-huh,
because in my brain when hestarted thinking what makes you
you, I only had one thing thatcame to mind.
I've been working a lot intherapy with like affirmations
and self-esteem and somethingthat came to my mind was Hannah
(47:59):
is loving.
And so then, as soon as yousaid, does that perceive how you
feel like you're beingauthentic in conversations with
other people?
Is it coming from a place oflove?
That's why I said yes, that'swhen I feel like I'm being
authentic because Hannah isloving.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
That's a good answer.
I think my issue is when I tryto define who is Anna, I'm such
an overthinker that the answer Igive, I'm going to start then
thinking about oh, but is thatbased on how other people have
perceived me and labeled me mywhole life, or is that actually
how I feel about?
You know what I mean A lot of.
(48:38):
I feel like it's hard to givean answer without having the
labels I've been given influencemy answer of how I see myself.
Does that make sense?
Because I would probably sayAnna is deep.
I think that's the word.
If I had to pick a word, Iwould say Anna is deep.
I think that's the word.
If I had to pick a word, Iwould say Anna is deep.
Empathetic, I think, but thatgoes into it, though right Like
(49:00):
I'm deeply telling you you'reempathetic.
Right, right, right, but no,but that's that's why I went
with deep, because I'm deeply, Ifeel deeply, I'm deeply
empathetic, I go deep inconversations.
I'm deeply empathetic, I godeep in conversations.
I, if I'm going to do a passion, I go deep into it Like I.
I hardly ever do something,just a little bit Like, even in
my work.
I go 110% into most things andI think that's why I would
(49:25):
define myself as deep.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
So it's interesting to hear that it get extrapolated
down to one word for each ofyou.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Well, how much time do we have?
No, 100%.
I don't mean it that way.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
I'm just saying.
I think obviously you're bothmuch more complicated than that,
but for the sake of whether itrings true, it's easier to
simplify it Because if you hadto list out a whole paragraph
every time you thought throughit, it would be very hard to do
(50:01):
in that moment.
Gut feeling.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
I also think, as humans, we do a lot of thinking
in terms of broader themes.
Lot of thinking in terms ofbroader themes, and maybe that's
why both Hannah and I wenttowards a word or a statement
that encapsulates who we are,because we're drawn to like
what's the big idea, the mainidea, the theme here, and that's
(50:25):
easier to put into words thanlike tell me all of who you are.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
For sure.
What I wanted to touch on, orat least like ask and float, was
how values play into it.
If you were to boil it down, weall have different values.
What is most important to youin our life, most important to
(50:56):
you in our life and you might beable to create a top 10 major
values behind your ethics, yourmorality, who you believe you
are as a person, in an attemptto be a good person.
Right, if you were to reallyreally drill those down, though,
to a top two or a top three?
Drill those down, though, to atop two or a top three, would
(51:16):
you say that if you could findthose top two or three values,
that most things would ring trueto whether you were being
authentic to those values?
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Yeah, I definitely think my authenticity is tied to
my values.
I think even the word that I'mliving my life, or striving to
live my life, doing all thingsthrough a lens of having deep
(52:00):
gratitude or deep love for whatI'm doing and the people around
me, all of those things havedepth to me, so they directly
tie to my values.
And when I'm living into myvalues eloquent with her words,
whereas I am not so much- so Iagree, however, with my word
(52:42):
being loving.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
I definitely think that I equate that to how I
perceive myself as beingauthentic, because my love
language is acts of service.
So that's one way I show loveright away.
It's a big part of me, but alsoI'm a caretaker.
I like to take care of people.
I love to take care of people,critters, bugs, animals, nature.
(53:05):
So, yeah, love is my number oneencompassing value currently.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
I think if I were to spend some time I could come up
with some more and, just to beclear, I don't expect you guys
to have that like just in thechamber.
It's actually something I'vebeen doing a lot of thinking
about recently and we'llprobably do a future episode
actually fully about values.
We talked about a lot of thingstoday, ranging from how to
gauge somebody's authenticity,whether that authenticity or
(53:39):
inauthenticity is a bad thing ora good thing, how it depends on
the situation quite a bit.
We had a whole conversationabout if discerning whether
somebody is being authentic ornot is fully beneficial or
sometimes unhelpful, since a lotof assumptions are made from
only our own state and story.
(54:01):
We talked about how one of themost important things we can do
when it comes to authenticity isget a better understanding of
our own authenticity, and weeven covered a number of
different ways of assessing howone would determine if they are
being authentic.
It was very interesting becausewe really had three different
(54:25):
approaches that bled into eachother.
Finally, we finished with somequestions about who we are as
people and how we see ourselvesin our self-image, beyond just
being the consciousness thatexperiences our life.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
My biggest takeaway from today's conversation is
that authenticity may lookdifferent for different people
and they may not show it in thesame ways.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
I agree.
Similar to you, hannah, mybiggest takeaway or biggest
realization was when I'm tryingto decide if someone is being
authentic or inauthentic.
Sometimes it has more to dowith me and less to do with them
.
And I also need to understandthat, although I value depth,
(55:17):
that doesn't mean everybody elsethinks the same way as I do,
and it's important for me togive similar weight to what's
appropriate in a given contextthat I do to the weight of the
conversation itself.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
I think my biggest takeaway was hearing about the
different ways that we alldetermine whether we were
feeling like we were coming offauthentic.
I think it's a topic that Ireally haven't thought that much
about, and I wasn't expectingthe approaches or the factors
(56:02):
that caused us to feel authenticor inauthentic to be so
different, while still sharingsome core underlying strands.
I guess this curiosityconversation is a new format for
us, so if you have any thoughts, whether it be your biggest
takeaways or any feedback thatyou have surrounding it, please
feel free to let us know.
We're always open to feedbackand remember you are enough and
(56:29):
you deserve to fill up yourinner cup with happiness,
confidence and self-compassion.
Thank you for listening to theSage Solutions Podcast.
Your time is valuable and I'mso glad you choose to learn and
grow here with me.
(56:49):
We'd love to hear your feedback, so click the link in the
description and let us know whatyou think.
If you haven't already, don'tforget to subscribe so you don't
miss out on more sage advice.
One last thing the legallanguage.
(57:13):
This podcast is for educationaland informational purposes only
.
No coaching client relationshipis formed.
It is not intended as asubstitute for the personalized
advice of a physician,professional coach,
psychotherapist or otherqualified professional.
Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk
about all things personalgrowth, personal development and
becoming your best self.
My name is David Sage and I ama self-worth and confidence
coach with Sage CoachingSolutions.
In today's episode, we're doingsomething a little different.
(00:25):
It's a concept I've beenplaying around with for a while,
but this will be the first timethat we're actually
implementing it.
I would say the closest thingthat we've done to this was our
episode on anxiety A little bitmore of a free flow conversation
about personal developmenttopics between three people.
But unlike our episode onanxiety, the goal of these
(00:50):
conversations is not tothoroughly cover one topic, but
to let the conversation go whereit's going to go in a much more
realistic and unregimented way.
This allows us to talk aboutmany different personal
development topics and to showhow they all blend together in
(01:11):
different conversations and inreal-world situations.
It also brings in a variety ofdifferent perspectives and
allows for us to cover thingsthat we probably wouldn't
normally on this podcast.
Today I have both of myreoccurring co-hosts my sister
Anna Sage and my wife HannahSage.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Sup.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Hey, hey.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We're going to be calling this format Curiosity
Conversations, because the wholepoint is to have a conversation
about personal developmenttopics.
Let it be what it's going to beand approach everything with
curiosity.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
It's as though you're listening in to David Hannah
and I just having a normalconversation, like we normally
would, without having to have abunch of preparation and
research done in advance.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
However, we're probably on better behavior for
this one.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Than normally.
Yeah, that's probably true, butit's also going to have a
definite focus on personaldevelopment topics to keep it
relevant to this podcast.
The other goal of this newformat, which we're going to be
cycling in in addition to whatwe've already been doing cycling
(02:27):
in in addition to what we'vealready been doing is to model
how to have productiveconversations around personal
development topics, and thenumber one way that we do that
is by approaching them with acuriosity mindset.
By approaching with curiosity,we open ourselves up to learn so
much more and let theconversation flow in the most
productive ways that it can, sothat you can have these types of
(02:50):
conversations with the peoplein your life.
But before we get into it, ourgoal with this podcast is to
share free, helpful tools withyou and anyone you know who is
looking to improve their life.
So take action, Subscribe andshare this podcast with them.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
I don't know if I can put this into the most concise
words, but something I've beenthinking a lot about lately is
how, in different socialsituations, we act differently.
Some of that is normal and thenin other situations, you look
(03:37):
at someone doing that and think,gosh, they're so inauthentic or
they're being so fake authenticor they're being so fake.
So I've been thinking a lotabout what the gray area is in
what's the normal amount ofshifting and changing how you
act and behave and respond in asocial situation, versus what
(03:57):
makes it have a negativeconnotation of being fake or
inauthentic?
Hi there, lufie.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Connotation of being fake or inauthentic oh, hi there
, luffy, our cat just jumped onanna's back and wanted to be
part of the podcast, I guess hethought he could fit on the back
of the chair, but he's a littletoo chunky but, anna, I get
what you're saying because Ifeel like everyone has met
(04:24):
different people who at timesyou kind of have a moment of
feeling like maybe they arecoming across as quote unquote
fake, but then once you get toknow them you actually realize
that sometimes that just istheir personality, when to kind
(04:51):
of turn on some of the likecharisma and maybe not as deep
side, and when to let it getdeeper kind of thing.
And I think it depends a lot oftimes on level of
comfortability, what type ofevent it is, who's all there.
I think it just depends.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I think it just depends.
Yeah, I think that this is acomplicated topic because
there's so many factors in play,especially if you are in a
negative state or like a foulmood.
(05:25):
But they understand that ifthey were just going to be
authentic with it, they'd bedrawing everyone else down.
So they're putting on a littlebit of a facade in an attempt to
, you know, spare others fromthat.
I think there are times wherepeople are being fake because
they're trying to get something.
(05:45):
You know it's complicated.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, I fully understand how nuanced and
complicated it is.
I think what I've been tryingto sort out for myself in my own
mind is when is inauthenticitya negative thing?
If we're talking black andwhite, when is it more clearly
on the black end of like, yeah,this isn't okay, and when is it
(06:14):
actually a good thing to be alittle bit inauthentic?
You know, kind of thinkingabout those two extremes.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I think there's a lot of different relationships that
we're in.
Some of them are a little bitmore shallow and don't
necessarily need to go into adeeper place, especially coming
from someone who's a little bitmore.
I'm extroverted, but I'mnaturally more of an introvert,
so sometimes I'm social, yes,but sometimes I do need to turn
(06:42):
it on.
And that does probably comeacross as a little inauthentic,
because if I'm at a big partykind of thing, I don't naturally
usually want to be there.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
So I kind of have to like hype myself up, get about,
and I've seen you kind of shifta little bit and be inauthentic
in moments, but it's never leftan impact on me of like, uh, or
(07:14):
like you know how do I, how do Isay that like it's.
You've never been inauthenticin a way that seems malicious or
seems, um, like it's gonna,it's hiding something bad.
You know what I mean.
It's like a positive thing.
It's just being extra positiveor polite or kind or you know,
(07:35):
right.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Do you feel that way, though?
Because you know me personallyand you know that I go to a
deeper level?
You know what I'm saying?
I think sometimes, if you don'tknow someone and you've never
seen that deeper side of themyou can jump to, oh, they're
always like this, they're alwayslight, and I think one of the
big things here is intent.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I think the intent behind whether somebody is being
true to themselves, authentic,is a big part of it, and I think
when you're reading that, theintent is not malicious when the
intent is to help themselvesget through a state or to make
the whole social exchange gobetter.
(08:19):
I think the biggest thing hereis trying to understand people's
intent.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I'm having a hard time picturing what you mean by
malicious.
Is there like an example that?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
maybe you could give Right.
That's what I was just thinkingof.
I think the most common thingthat comes to mind is when,
let's say, someone reallydoesn't like someone else, right
, like truly, how they feel theydon't like them at all but they
have to be in certain socialcontexts with that person.
(08:52):
They can't avoid them.
Okay, so then, although theyput on almost a facade of being
positive and friendly, askinghow they're doing all this kind
of you know polite, you can sortof tell that like, ultimately,
they don't genuinely care.
I mean, this is pretty extreme,but there are those
(09:15):
circumstances, right, where youhave to be in contact with
somebody that you really don'tlike, be it family, be it a
coworker.
I really read into itty bittymicro nuances of people and I
think I feel it in my gut when Ifeel like I don't think this
person actually is curious aboutme or likes me or genuinely
(09:39):
wants to know.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Let me ask you this, though Are those people that you
really care, if they care aboutyour life?
You know what I mean.
Like I know it's hard to.
It's a bitter pill to swallowof someone that maybe doesn't
care for me or doesn't want toget to know me, but the worst
that comes of that is that theydon't get to know you.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
That's true.
I think that if it's you know,just a coworker that you don't
really have to work with thatmuch, or an acquaintance, you
know that's easy to just be likeeh, that's fine, I don't need
to know you, you don't need tobe in my life.
But sometimes like what if itwas someone in your family?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
That's where it gets tricky right.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Mm-hmm.
I feel like you hear this a lotof times with like in-laws,
where it's like someone you arepushed into a relationship with
yeah, stereotypically.
Yeah, but it wasn't necessarilybecause you chose that
relationship.
It's because someone you lovechose that relationship, right,
which?
Speaker 3 (10:37):
makes sense, which, to be clear.
I just want to make it veryclear out here that, like this
is not me speaking aboutsomebody in my life, I'm just
coming up with examples of whenI think this would make the most
sense.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Right, we're just stereotyping.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, it's for the sake of example.
Let me start here.
I think malevolent is toostrong of a word, and I think
Malicious, maleficent.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Malelephant, I did.
I said malicious, okay, both ofthem are too strong.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I think it's more just like do they have a good
intent or a bad intent?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
and isn't that what malicious is, malintent?
True?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
but it has a strength of connotation to it.
Right, you can be like oh, thatwas mildly negative versus like
I'm going to kill you.
Those are both bad.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
I mean, I feel like that's really extreme.
When I think of malicious, Iguess in the context I was using
it, it's like I really don'tlike that person and I can't
stand them.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Malicious is often used for things like I hope they
get fired, Like maliciousintent can be pretty strong.
That's why I'm saying like Ifeel like it is a little too
strong of a word for that, Okay.
So I guess I'm just saying whydon't we keep it a little more
neutral in the overall positiveintent and negative intent?
And the context matters a lot.
(12:04):
I think the closeness of thatrelationship, as you were
bringing up, makes a bigdifference.
But this is a very shades ofgray issue which is good for
figuring things out, but it's ahard one to figure out because
the lines are so blurry and itchanges so much based on each
individual instance of it.
The same person acting fakewith somebody that they don't
(12:28):
necessarily like to look good infront of other people is one
intent, but to try and keeppeace for the sake of not
causing a problem is another.
Being way over the top with itis one thing, and just being
lightly polite, just enough toget by, is another.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
There's also like mood swings.
That can be a littlechallenging when you feel like
you're in one place with someoneand then you have an
interaction with them and youkind of feel that superficial
energy.
They could just be having areally shitty day.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Agreed.
I typically like to believethat people are good and people
have good intentions.
Hurt people are the think wherepeople you know might be being
inauthentic because they're well.
Maybe their intent isn't to getdirt on someone or to talk
about them later or like youknow, but maybe I don't know it
(13:38):
happens.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It could be.
It's so case by case, though.
I feel like the most common waythat you see people being fake
in that type of a scenario isthat they are just trying to
look so good and gracious,despite you knowing that that's
not their intent.
It's like they want to come offthat way.
(14:02):
It's not so much about whetheryou think it.
They just want other people tothink that they care.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Yeah, I don't know, though.
Like there are certaincircumstances where I feel
really uncomfortable though,because I value authenticity in
people and I'm somebody who isso vulnerable and open and
willing to have deepconversations that when I'm
talking to somebody and it seemslike they don't, they may not
(14:31):
actually care about what they'reasking me.
They're just trying to bepolite.
I don't know how to interactlike that.
Like I'm like oh well, ifyou're asking me that I'm going
to go in depth, you know I don't.
Maybe that's more.
Something I need to work on ismeeting people where they're at
and having a little bit of alighter approach.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I found that I personally don't give people as
much grace as I probably shouldwhen it comes to this
specifically, like where Iassume negative intent a lot of
times, because I tend to be alittle bit more of a pessimistic
thinker when it comes to otherpeople, unfortunately.
So I feel like there are timeswhen I've been proven wrong,
(15:09):
which is like my favorite iswhen I assume someone is fake.
Someone doesn't actually care.
I see them turn it on and thenI find out that that's just who
they are and not fake.
But they're actually sweet andhappy and like content and they
wear their heart on their sleeve.
But because I'm so guarded, itlike comes across as so strange
(15:30):
to me.
I'm like whoa, how are you sofriendly and happy and like
right in everyone's face rightaway?
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I think it's very easy for us to think that we're
better judges of people'sintentions on social situations
than we actually are.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Because we're so caught up in the stories that
we're telling ourselves aboutthe situation that's based on
our perspective, when most ofthe actual intent is based on
the stories that they're tellingthemselves that we can't hear.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Okay, yeah, that hit home for me.
I bet that a lot of times it'scoming from my own insecurity,
or maybe past interactions witha person and my own assumptions
and fears.
As I'm reading, you know thesocial cues, yeah, and it's not
(16:26):
really about them.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And while I think it's an interesting topic for us
to be discussing, when it comesdown to it in the moment I
don't know if it's really ourplace to be the judge of that,
because at the end of the day,since we can't be certain, we're
really just assuming theirintent, we're making an educated
(16:50):
guess, and then, when we getinto the functionality of it,
what is the alternative?
Let's say they are beinginauthentic and they don't
really like you.
Would you prefer that they justoutwardly stated that they
(17:11):
don't like you and caused moreof a scene and made it extra
awkward?
Wouldn't you feel like theywere being super rude and mean?
I don't know that thealternative is really any better
than them just beinginauthentic.
I think if somebody doesn'tlike you, it's not going to feel
good either way, but it's moresocially acceptable for them to
(17:32):
be fake about it.
I don't think.
I'd rather have somebody justbe straight up mean to me, and I
guess the third alternative isthat they're so good at being
inauthentic that you don't evenrealize they don't like you.
I don't know if I'd prefer thatone either, because then it's
just about not wanting to knowthat they don't like you, which
(17:56):
would mean that it's only okayif they're super skilled at
being inauthentic, and I don'tthink that's what we're looking
for either.
There's definitely value inhaving social intelligence and
being able to read other peopleand social situations well, but
at the end of the day, I don'thave control over what they
(18:16):
think of me, so I'm just goingto focus on my locus of control
and let them.
But what I do have control overis my own authenticity.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
That's a really good thought, because that makes
total sense.
I do have a question, though.
At what point, if it's arelationship that truly matters,
that you know you're going tohave for a very long time, at
what point do you have aconversation about it with that
person?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Or do you just never?
And then, 15 years down theline, you still are harboring
these feelings of they don'tlike me.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I feel like at some point it needs to be addressed.
Have that conversation.
Or is it more appropriate to dosome intrinsic thinking and
work on yourself and shift yourown thinking instead?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I definitely think that if somebody is a big part
of your life, having aconversation like real
conversations about some ofthese things and figuring some
of these things out isdefinitely going to have to
happen and maybe that results inboundaries, maybe things get
figured out.
Whatever that's going to be,having a constructive
(19:51):
conversation with somebodythat's going to be a big part of
your life can be a helpfulthing.
Now they might not be in aplace for it, but I am more
saying that once you've takenthose steps, you have a lot more
control over really monitoringwhether you are being authentic
(20:12):
and having a wider view of yourauthentic you.
I think if we turn it aroundand look at, like, what is being
authentic right, we might thinkthat somebody who is more
vulnerable is more authentic.
But I tend to not even love thephrasing of authentic self,
because I am authentically medifferently in different
(20:38):
situations.
Different parts of mypersonality come out with
different people, naturallybecause of mirroring, because of
the fact that I will meet themwhere they're at, or a certain
part of my personality is thepart of my personality that that
person shares.
Let's say, I'm having aconversation with a more
(21:00):
analytical person.
I'm often having a moreanalytical conversation.
Am I being inauthentic by notshowing all those other parts of
myself?
Am I just trying to hide all ofthat, or am I naturally just
having that piece of me becomemore elevated in that situation?
I think a lot of peoplestereotype themselves to be one
(21:25):
thing and then they think thatif they're not being that
stereotypical version ofthemselves in all settings,
they're not being theirauthentic self, when we're much
more multifaceted than that.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
This may be a good place to say if this is ringing
true for you as the listener.
We do have several podcasts outalready that deeper into who
you are authentically and whatmakes you who you are.
Is it you know your feelings?
Is it your physical body?
(22:12):
What actually is you?
And then even further back backin December of 2024, our 21st
episode was about how to winfamily and deal with difficult
people, and I think that couldreally relate into.
If you're in circumstances whereyou do want to try to have a
(22:32):
difficult conversation withsomebody, maybe who you've been
feeling is inauthentic with you.
That could be a really usefulresource for how to approach
that kind of conversation.
And what do you do whensomebody isn't in a place where
they're doing the work onthemselves to be able to hear
that?
Okay, but before I get us waytoo off track, I've been talking
(22:57):
a lot about how it feels toexperience someone else
potentially being inauthentic,but I want to circle back to
what David was saying earlierabout when I am being
inauthentic, right, like, whatphysiological response does my
body give me?
(23:17):
That's telling me I may bebeing inauthentic to who I
really am and what I reallythink and believe?
Like what do you experience?
What makes you feel like, oh,I'm not being real right now.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
The biggest tell for me is when I leave that
conversation not fulfilled and Ihave a moment of thinking what
coulda, shoulda, woulda been andfeeling like there was more I
could have brought to the table.
There's a lot of conversations,unfortunately, that I feel that
moment when I leave thatconversation of, oh, I should
(23:52):
have asked them how this wasgoing, oh, I should have told
them about this.
They could definitely relate tothat and probably give me some
advice when I feel like I missedout and it was of my own accord
, is when I realized maybe I wasprobably being inauthentic in
that moment.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Being harsh on yourself of like oh, I should
have done this.
Is that truly an indicator ofI'm being inauthentic right now?
Or is that judging yourself andbeing critical of yourself?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I think it's pretty easy for me to tell the
difference, because I am soharsh on myself I've talked
about it in the past where a lotof times my self-talk is like
bashing.
So I'd be walking away fromthat and be like, oh, you're so
stupid, oh you're people don'tlike you.
(24:47):
It would be a lot meaner if itwas being the like self-talk
kind of thing.
So that's where I feel like, oh, there's more I could have
brought to that and that's whenI feel like I'm not being
authentic.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Interesting.
So there's a different feelingin your body or a different kind
of thought that you have.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, it's more of like a gut response.
Okay, more of a disappointedresponse, ooh, as opposed to a
critical response.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I find this really fascinating.
I don't think I haveconceptualized it this way
before.
Thinking about the feeling thatyou have about the interaction
afterwards or a physiologicalresponse during is a unique way
of viewing it, at least to me.
(25:36):
Does that mean that everyconversation that you feel like
didn't go as well as it shouldhave or could have is
inauthentic?
Because I feel like sometimesthings just don't go as well as
they could have.
But does that really mean thatyou were inauthentic?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
No, because I don't think it has anything to do with
feeling like that could havegone better.
It's more of oh, I know thatthey would have had some good
insight if I would have sharedthis problem with them.
Oh, it's something that I knowthey would have been
compassionate to me in thissituation where they probably
could have helped me and givenme some insight, and that's when
I feel like maybe I could haveshared a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
So it's more like woulda, coulda, shoulda, in
response to a lack of yousharing something personal or
being open or authentic.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes, yep, especially because I tend to be a little
more guarded.
Do you have to have thought ofsharing that ahead of time?
Like what if it occurs to youafter the fact?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Do you then feel like you were being inauthentic?
No, it's usually like when Ifeel tongue-tied and stuck where
, I don't state it.
A lot of times it's somethingthat comes up in the moment for
me but I'm like, oh, I don'twant to trouble them or oh, I
don't really want to go intothat fully, like it's me
(27:03):
stopping myself.
Okay, and only I can be blamed,you know, for that kind of
moment, because they probablywould have been willing to go
down that deeper hole with me.
But I kept it lighter.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Which is so interesting to me, because I'm
sitting here reflecting tryingto figure out like wait a minute
, I'm the one that asked thisquestion, but what are my
responses?
How do I even know?
I don't really know how I wouldtell I'm being inauthentic, but
I do know how I would tell whenI'm being authentic.
(27:39):
I know the inverse.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Okay authentic.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I know the inverse.
Okay, I feel authentic tomyself in my interactions.
When my body feels at peace andfeels calm, I don't feel very
anxious and I feel like I don'treally care about what the
reaction may be, because I knowthat it's true to who I am and I
am very secure in who I am.
(28:12):
So then, it's almost theopposite of Hannah, I guess.
Okay, I did figure it out whileprocessing and verbalizing when
I'm being inauthentic, I'mcaring too much about how I'm
being perceived by the otherperson.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, that's very good.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
When I'm being authentic, I'm not caring about
how they're perceiving me Like.
Yeah, of course I would like tobe liked, but if I'm saying
something that I know is true towhat I believe, what I think,
who I am, and I see somebodyhave a negative response and I
am at peace with.
See somebody have a negativeresponse and I am at peace with
that, that's how I know I'mbeing authentic.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Right, you don't feel like you need to band-aid that
conversation and go back and say, oh, I didn't mean it, or
anything.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Right, and that's not to say I'm not uncomfortable or
disappointed when somebodyresponds in a way that's like,
oh, they didn't like what I hadto say, but it doesn't make me
doubt myself.
I'm still at peace with, like,you know what, that's who I am,
though.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
So so I think that I think about this a lot different
than either of you.
I think there is something tobe said about the feeling that
you have for it.
I also think that the pointabout not worrying about what
others are going to think makesa lot of sense, and I will say
(29:29):
that as I'm thinking about it.
Both of those resonate with me.
But where I struggle with it isthat what I think most people
would say is their authenticself is the gut reaction of how
they initially feel aboutsomething, and that they just
(29:52):
are going with their gut.
They're saying what first comesto them Right, because it feels
like that's me, that'sauthentic.
I'm not second guessing itbecause of another person, and
for me sometimes, when I do that, that is when I feel
inauthentic.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Because for me, it's not so much about the other
person.
I am somebody who likes tothink through and make sure that
I am coming across the way thatI intend to, so that I am
wording, saying or doingsomething in the way that feels
like me.
And sometimes the immediateresponse is not that, and
(30:39):
sometimes I am trying to get aspecific reaction out of a
person, but it's because myintention, my authentic
intention, is to make them feelgood or whatever it is, so I
will take the time to word it ina way that I think will achieve
(31:00):
your authentic intention.
Yeah, I guess that that will bereceived the best way, or, yeah,
accomplish what I'm trying toaccomplish in saying that, the
best that I can, which I realizein some ways sounds like the
opposite.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
No, I think that that goes along with what we're
saying.
I feel the same way as youbecause when you said initially,
you know most people wouldthink what's authentic is the
first thing that comes to mindthat isn't being influenced by
other people In my gut, I waslike no, that is not when I feel
most authentic.
I'm more like you in that whenI have enough time to think
(31:40):
deeply and ensure that what I'msaying resonates in my gut with
what I truly think and believe,that's when I have that secure
feeling, that feeling of peace,of like this is me, and it's
often the opposite.
That first thing that comes tomind that's more of the social
cue and social thing that's beendrilled into me, of like this
(32:01):
would be an appropriate thing tosay here, or this could make
them laugh, or this could youknow and it's more about the
immediate oh, I got to dosomething that's going to have
the response that's going tomake them like me.
That comes quickly to mindfirst.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Hannah, what are your thoughts about the way that I
conceptualize my ownauthenticity?
I'm realizing that I've neveractually heard somebody state it
that way, so I'm looking to seeif you have any thoughts or
insights from just being aroundme all the time.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I feel like what you're saying makes sense,
because you tend to be someonewho does take your time in
speaking and process what you'resaying before you say it.
However, my question for youguys is do you feel like you
can't be fully authentic inthese quick moments with people?
(32:57):
Because if you need this timeto really spend time figuring
out what you're going to say,how you're going to say it, who
you're talking to, what aboutwhen you're having a
conversation with someone at asupermarket, do you feel like
you can't fully get to thatlevel ever?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Oh, totally Okay.
That's how I feel.
That's why I think I value deepconversations so much, because
I hate hate's a strong word.
I really feel uncomfortable insmall talk conversations because
it really does feel like I justgo into social training mode,
(33:38):
right, like I was taught torespond this way so that they'll
walk away thinking oh, what asweet lady you know and not like
actually who I am.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Right, which is interesting because there's been
multiple situations in my lifethat I've met a complete
stranger in a supermarket andI'm hearing their whole life
story and I wonder if it'sbecause I don't need that time
to like go deep with someone.
It is a little bit more of aquicker response for me.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
So, you mean like the other person is sharing deeply
about themselves.
So maybe they're like us andthey don't feel like they can be
authentic in a quickerformatted conversation.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But they're in a supermarket when people say
hello, how are you Move on?
Get your shopping done?
What I'm saying is Right.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
That's the socially intelligent thing to do.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Right, but it feels so fake Because if you did, that
to every single person, right?
Speaker 1 (34:32):
a lot of them are like I don't want to have this
conversation, I know.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
That's why I hate when people say how are you?
Because I never feel like Igive a good response.
I give the I'm good.
How are you?
Because that's what is expected, but that doesn't actually
reflect what I'm experiencing.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
But the root of a lot of these things, of social
pleasantries, of unconsciouspleasant exchanges, comes from
base psychology.
It's the subcontext.
It's not actually about thewords.
It's like often we're justlooking for are you safe?
Right, like I am having aninteraction with you, are you
(35:12):
friendly enough that I can feelsafe?
And then the other person justsays something just friendly
enough that you can feel safe.
And then you're both like okay,good Language isn't always
about the words that are said.
It's more like oh, you'resocially aware, you understand
this situation, okay, we're good.
And I think small talk oftenaccomplishes a lot of
(35:35):
subconscious things for people,more so than the actual words.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Right, but what I was saying with the supermarket
analogy is that everybody'ssmall talk might look a little
different and some people'ssmall talk might get deeper,
quicker than other small talktalk might get deeper, quicker
than other small talk.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
I would say at that point it's not small talk,
though I think you are makingthat person feel comfortable
very quickly with your initialsmall talk.
That lets them decide to not dosmall talk.
Instead they decide to go deep.
Yeah, I agree, you're goingfrom small talk into a deep
conversation, because you'remaking them feel safe very
(36:16):
quickly.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Right, but coming from you, guys are more
processors than I am, so comingfrom that, you feel like you
can't have those kinds ofconversations with people
because they go too fast.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I'm going to say it depends.
I very much had those types ofsituations, but it's a conscious
choice as to whether I amputting myself in a place to be
open to going deep with people.
I think, from a processingstandpoint, I don't always have
to think about it.
(36:54):
There are many times where theinitial is worded the way that I
want.
So I think it's more like itgoes through a quick little
filter that checks if it is, andthen I say it.
It might be a slight pause, butsometimes it's a longer pause,
you know.
So I think there are probablytimes when it does inhibit me,
(37:19):
but I think there are also timeswhen I just consciously choose
not to go down that hole andpresent myself in a way to not
open that up.
For instance, if I'm at a partyand I run into somebody that I
don't know, depending on whetherI'm in a social state and
feeling like going deep withpeople or not, I will either
(37:43):
have a small talk interactionthat doesn't go far or, if I'm
consciously choosing to, itusually ends up going pretty
deep, because I know how to takethat small talk into something
that they're interested in.
That then goes deeper and thenI start seeing passion and it
becomes a much more interestingconversation.
But there are times where I'mjust not in the right state or
(38:06):
feeling that, where I don't evenattempt it.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
See, but that's where I think, putting myself in that
context, if I'm at a party andsomebody is trying to have a
small talk conversation with meand they're not looking to go
deep, it just feels inauthenticto me.
So I typically would try tokind of walk away or avoid that
(38:35):
sort of right, but you're alsoat a party.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Not everybody wants to have a sob fest, no offense
that sounds that sounds mean,but like no, everybody wants to
have a very deep conversation ata party.
Like take myself, if someone,if david, comes by and he can
read me and he's like what'swrong, I'm not going to tell him
.
Then, like I'm just going to belike go away, like go be a
party self, like I'm having I'mat a party.
(39:00):
I don't want to discuss thisright now.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Because it's the context at the place where we're
at matters.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
But I think that's why when I go to a party, I
usually don't go by myself andI'm usually there with somebody
that I'm just like okay, none ofthese people have seen anything
of the real me.
And then I kind of gravitatemore towards like even at family
gatherings, like I end upgravitating more towards the
family that I have closestrelationships with and having
more time and conversations withthem, because that's where I
feel authentic.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
And that makes sense.
I feel like that is a verynatural inclination and most
people do that because it takesless energy to get to deep.
But first off, I want to touchon the person in the grocery
store.
Sometimes that's really sweet.
Other times I've said hi tosomebody in an elevator and they
(40:16):
start telling me about all ofthe issues in their life and I'm
like ah, well, that's traumadumping.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Well, and the?
Speaker 1 (40:23):
social awareness.
You know, yes, they're being, Iguess, technically vulnerable,
but really it's hardcoreoversharing that makes everyone
involved really uncomfortableand I think a lot of people have
had those experiences withpeople that don't respect other
people's social boundaries andit causes a lot of people to
(40:44):
start with small talk.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
But what if they're being authentic to themselves?
Speaker 3 (40:52):
I think that's where the nuance here is tricky right,
Because you have to find thatbalance of is it socially
appropriate or not?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
So this is where I think authenticity isn't always
a good thing.
You have to weigh the balanceof what are the repercussions,
the effects of my authenticity?
Are they harming someone else?
Am I violating their boundaries?
And I think it's easy to assumethat being authentic is always
(41:26):
the right choice, but it mightnot be.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
And I was even thinking too, like we're talking
about authenticity as thoughit's this have to go deep, bear
my soul, vulnerability, sureSometimes, like I was just
thinking about it at familygatherings.
Sometimes authenticity is morelike I understand the person's
sense of humor.
They have a similar one.
We have shared history.
(41:49):
It's more like fun andlighthearted, but it still has
more depth than like hi, how areyou, how are the kids, what's
the?
You know?
Like it's, it has more depth.
It has you know it's not justasking questions, it's telling
stories, it's lightheartedthings.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
But I think it's not fair to make the judgment of
somebody that doesn'timmediately go deep.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Right, that's kind of what I was getting at, because
everyone knows the sages love toget deep.
It's something you guys areboth very good at and I
appreciate it immensely.
But there are times that youguys are looking to go deep and
I'm like I don't want to go deep, like please, I know, please,
keep me from this today, likejust not feeling it, and that's
(42:37):
okay, and I'm still beingauthentic to myself by not
wanting to go deep.
So I don't want anyone to thinkbecause you don't go deep with
people doesn't mean you're notbeing authentic.
It comes across differently fordifferent people.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
A hundred percent and I actually want to double down
on that with a couple otherexamples.
So it might not even be thatthey're not feeling it.
I brought up the example of theeither trauma, dumping or
oversharing because thoseexperiences can be very, very
awkward, taxing, very awkward,taxing.
(43:14):
They can leave people reallyguarded in these new situations
because they don't want to openthat door enough that they're
then stuck in that and I thinkthat has caused people to be
more guarded in their initialinteractions with people.
Because other people havestomped on their social
boundaries or because of othertimes that they have been
vulnerable, people have made funof them, made them feel like
crap when they were beingvulnerable.
(43:36):
They're exposed.
Well, that causes people to bemore guarded and not as ready to
vulnerability when they've hadpast experiences that show that
they aren't treated well.
So sometimes we have to becareful about not judging
somebody as not being willing togo deep.
They might just be scared to godeep and maybe you have to
(43:59):
start with something they'repassionate about.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Or maybe they don't need to go deep.
They might have enough in theirlives that they don't feel like
they need to go deep with everysingle person.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah, that's fair too .
I think, though, the differenceis, I've never once questioned
your authenticity.
Even when I was first gettingto know you and I think that's
the part that I was trying toflesh out is, even if you don't
want to go deep, because, likeDavid said, you have had
(44:36):
negative interactions and soyou're afraid to, I feel like I
can sense a little bit of thatlike fear, or a little bit of
that.
What would the word be?
Trepidation or Sure?
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Right In the intention.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
That doesn't.
Yeah, that doesn't offend me,that's okay.
I'm very comfortable when I cansense somebody's a little bit
you know nervous or fearfulabout, and that's why they're
keeping it light.
That's okay.
It's more so in the context ofwhen somebody is keeping it
light and you can tell there'slike I don't know how to put it
(45:07):
to words.
It's not necessarily malicious,but you can tell that they're
like, have zero interest inactually talking to you.
That's what bugs me.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
They're acting Like there is just clear being fake,
where you can just see that theyare putting on a face, a mask,
and they are very clearly justdoing this for show almost Sure.
And that can Just doing this forshow almost Right, and that can
be very upsetting.
But no matter who the person is, everyone is authentic
sometimes, and I find that themost common time that you will
find somebody being authentic iswhen they're talking about
(45:46):
something that they'repassionate about, because the
energy just flows out of themand we see our passions, the
things that we are interested in, as a part of ourselves,
usually whether it be through atitle like I am a reader, I am a
(46:09):
teacher, whether it's your jobor whether it's a hobby.
I think we ascribe all of theselabels that are often related
to things that we like, likepassions.
But we're not that simple.
There's a lot more to us thanjust those labels, but I think
they are still sort of a part ofour own self-concept.
(46:31):
At our core, we are theconsciousness that experiences
our life, but in order to have acoherent sense of self, it's
more than that.
So I'd be curious to hear howthe two of you think about who
you are beyond just theconsciousness.
(46:53):
Who is Anna?
Speaker 3 (47:06):
It's a really hard question to answer in words
right now.
It feels like something I couldponder for hours and constantly
adjust and adapt and have avery deep, abstract answer to.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
Does that answer play into how you think about
whether you're being authentic?
Speaker 3 (47:22):
What Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
What are you?
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Hold on, let Hannah answer, because I'm in a mode of
processing and thinking and Iwas just like huh, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
So, as David said that, I kind of said uh-huh,
because in my brain when hestarted thinking what makes you
you, I only had one thing thatcame to mind.
I've been working a lot intherapy with like affirmations
and self-esteem and somethingthat came to my mind was Hannah
(47:59):
is loving.
And so then, as soon as yousaid, does that perceive how you
feel like you're beingauthentic in conversations with
other people?
Is it coming from a place oflove?
That's why I said yes, that'swhen I feel like I'm being
authentic because Hannah isloving.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
That's a good answer.
I think my issue is when I tryto define who is Anna, I'm such
an overthinker that the answer Igive, I'm going to start then
thinking about oh, but is thatbased on how other people have
perceived me and labeled me mywhole life, or is that actually
how I feel about?
You know what I mean A lot of.
(48:38):
I feel like it's hard to givean answer without having the
labels I've been given influencemy answer of how I see myself.
Does that make sense?
Because I would probably sayAnna is deep.
I think that's the word.
If I had to pick a word, Iwould say Anna is deep.
I think that's the word.
If I had to pick a word, Iwould say Anna is deep.
Empathetic, I think, but thatgoes into it, though right Like
(49:00):
I'm deeply telling you you'reempathetic.
Right, right, right, but no,but that's that's why I went
with deep, because I'm deeply, Ifeel deeply, I'm deeply
empathetic, I go deep inconversations.
I'm deeply empathetic, I godeep in conversations.
I, if I'm going to do a passion, I go deep into it Like I.
I hardly ever do something,just a little bit Like, even in
my work.
I go 110% into most things andI think that's why I would
(49:25):
define myself as deep.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
So it's interesting to hear that it get extrapolated
down to one word for each ofyou.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
Well, how much time do we have?
No, 100%.
I don't mean it that way.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
I'm just saying.
I think obviously you're bothmuch more complicated than that,
but for the sake of whether itrings true, it's easier to
simplify it Because if you hadto list out a whole paragraph
every time you thought throughit, it would be very hard to do
(50:01):
in that moment.
Gut feeling.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
I also think, as humans, we do a lot of thinking
in terms of broader themes.
Lot of thinking in terms ofbroader themes, and maybe that's
why both Hannah and I wenttowards a word or a statement
that encapsulates who we are,because we're drawn to like
what's the big idea, the mainidea, the theme here, and that's
(50:25):
easier to put into words thanlike tell me all of who you are.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
For sure.
What I wanted to touch on, orat least like ask and float, was
how values play into it.
If you were to boil it down, weall have different values.
What is most important to youin our life, most important to
(50:56):
you in our life and you might beable to create a top 10 major
values behind your ethics, yourmorality, who you believe you
are as a person, in an attemptto be a good person.
Right, if you were to reallyreally drill those down, though,
to a top two or a top three?
Drill those down, though, to atop two or a top three, would
(51:16):
you say that if you could findthose top two or three values,
that most things would ring trueto whether you were being
authentic to those values?
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Yeah, I definitely think my authenticity is tied to
my values.
I think even the word that I'mliving my life, or striving to
live my life, doing all thingsthrough a lens of having deep
(52:00):
gratitude or deep love for whatI'm doing and the people around
me, all of those things havedepth to me, so they directly
tie to my values.
And when I'm living into myvalues eloquent with her words,
whereas I am not so much- so Iagree, however, with my word
(52:42):
being loving.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
I definitely think that I equate that to how I
perceive myself as beingauthentic, because my love
language is acts of service.
So that's one way I show loveright away.
It's a big part of me, but alsoI'm a caretaker.
I like to take care of people.
I love to take care of people,critters, bugs, animals, nature.
(53:05):
So, yeah, love is my number oneencompassing value currently.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
I think if I were to spend some time I could come up
with some more and, just to beclear, I don't expect you guys
to have that like just in thechamber.
It's actually something I'vebeen doing a lot of thinking
about recently and we'llprobably do a future episode
actually fully about values.
We talked about a lot of thingstoday, ranging from how to
gauge somebody's authenticity,whether that authenticity or
(53:39):
inauthenticity is a bad thing ora good thing, how it depends on
the situation quite a bit.
We had a whole conversationabout if discerning whether
somebody is being authentic ornot is fully beneficial or
sometimes unhelpful, since a lotof assumptions are made from
only our own state and story.
(54:01):
We talked about how one of themost important things we can do
when it comes to authenticity isget a better understanding of
our own authenticity, and weeven covered a number of
different ways of assessing howone would determine if they are
being authentic.
It was very interesting becausewe really had three different
(54:25):
approaches that bled into eachother.
Finally, we finished with somequestions about who we are as
people and how we see ourselvesin our self-image, beyond just
being the consciousness thatexperiences our life.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
My biggest takeaway from today's conversation is
that authenticity may lookdifferent for different people
and they may not show it in thesame ways.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
I agree.
Similar to you, hannah, mybiggest takeaway or biggest
realization was when I'm tryingto decide if someone is being
authentic or inauthentic.
Sometimes it has more to dowith me and less to do with them
.
And I also need to understandthat, although I value depth,
(55:17):
that doesn't mean everybody elsethinks the same way as I do,
and it's important for me togive similar weight to what's
appropriate in a given contextthat I do to the weight of the
conversation itself.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
I think my biggest takeaway was hearing about the
different ways that we alldetermine whether we were
feeling like we were coming offauthentic.
I think it's a topic that Ireally haven't thought that much
about, and I wasn't expectingthe approaches or the factors
(56:02):
that caused us to feel authenticor inauthentic to be so
different, while still sharingsome core underlying strands.
I guess this curiosityconversation is a new format for
us, so if you have any thoughts, whether it be your biggest
takeaways or any feedback thatyou have surrounding it, please
feel free to let us know.
We're always open to feedbackand remember you are enough and
(56:29):
you deserve to fill up yourinner cup with happiness,
confidence and self-compassion.
Thank you for listening to theSage Solutions Podcast.
Your time is valuable and I'mso glad you choose to learn and
grow here with me.
(56:49):
We'd love to hear your feedback, so click the link in the
description and let us know whatyou think.
If you haven't already, don'tforget to subscribe so you don't
miss out on more sage advice.
One last thing the legallanguage.
(57:13):
This podcast is for educationaland informational purposes only
.
No coaching client relationshipis formed.
It is not intended as asubstitute for the personalized
advice of a physician,professional coach,
psychotherapist or otherqualified professional.
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