Remembering John: Finding Meaning in Terminal Illness

A heartfelt tribute unfolds as David Sage rebroadcasts his powerful interview with his stepfather, John Azzolina, who recently passed away after battling terminal cancer. This deeply moving conversation captures the raw authenticity of someone facing mortality with remarkable courage and wisdom.

John takes us through his unexpected journey from a routine doctor's appointment to a terminal liver cancer diagnosis that changed everything. With remarkable candor, he shares the physical challenges – from high-risk surgery to remove a tumor growing toward his heart, to the rollercoaster of treatments that followed. But the true power of this episode lies in John's emotional and spiritual evolution throughout his illness.

What begins as a cancer story transforms into a profound meditation on what truly matters in life. John reflects on his transformation: "I don't think I was a bad person before my diagnosis... but I think I'm a better person now than I was before." His vulnerability shines through as he questions why it took such a profound situation to become his best self.

The conversation offers rare insights into the psychology of terminal illness – from initial denial and anger to eventual acceptance and peace. John describes how his perspective shifted dramatically: "All that matters is the relationships that we build with the people that we care about. It's not the money, it's not the cars... None of it matters anymore."

For those supporting loved ones with serious illness, John provides invaluable perspective on the well-intentioned but sometimes frustrating ways people change their behavior toward those who are ill. His insights help bridge the gap between caring for someone and empowering them.

This episode serves as both a loving memorial and a wake-up call. John's parting wisdom challenges us all to examine our priorities before crisis forces us to see what truly matters. As David notes, we're being given the gift of perspective without having to face our own mortality – an opportunity to put first things first without waiting for a devastating diagnosis to show us the way.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk
about all things personalgrowth, personal development and
becoming your best self.
My name is David Sage and I ama self-worth and confidence
coach with Sage CoachingSolutions.
For those of you who havefollowed the Sage Solutions

(00:27):
podcast for a while, you mayremember our episodes that we
split into a part one and a parttwo, where we interviewed my
stepfather, john Ezelina,talking about his battle with
cancer about his battle withcancer.

(00:50):
Unfortunately, yesterday aroundnoon, john passed away.
I wasn't entirely sure whetherI was going to have an episode
this week and I kind of tossedback and forth on what to do and
how to do it, but I did make acommitment to do this and help
people.
So today's episode is a specialtribute episode to John.
What follows is arebroadcasting of my interview

(01:14):
with John, but instead of doingit in two parts, in this version
you can hear it all in one go,just as we originally recorded
it.
I know there are many peoplelistening to this podcast that
knew John personally and I hopethat this episode can help you
in your mourning process.
I would also highly suggestgoing back and listening to the

(01:37):
episode that I did with my wifeHannah on grief.
So, without further ado, enjoythis interview.
Today we have a very specialepisode, an episode that I've
been waiting to do for a whilewith a very special person.
This is possibly the mostpowerful episode of the Sage

(02:01):
Solutions podcast that we willever record, at least for me,
and I just want to give a littlebit of a warning that we're
going to be talking about somesensitive topics and for anyone
that is going through, or hashad a close loved one go through

(02:24):
, a cancer diagnosis, this mightbe a little bit of a triggering
episode.
So if you don't feel likeyou're in a place to listen to
this episode right now, that'stotally okay Before we get into
it.
Our goal with this podcast isto share free, helpful tools
with you and anyone you know whois looking to improve their

(02:47):
life.
So take action, subscribe andshare this podcast with them.
Today's guest is somebody that Ilove and care about deeply, and
he is someone that has been amajor part of my life for about
15 years now.

(03:07):
While he isn't technically mystepfather, I've considered him
that for a long time now.
I've been lucky enough to have abonus parent in my life, one
that has taught me so manythings about the world and how
to become a man.
In fact, I would not be theperson that I am today without
the lessons that he has taughtme and without the major

(03:30):
influence that he's had on mylife.
He's always had a little bit ofa tough guy, italian bravado,
but, to be fair, he always hadthe muscle to back it up.
He is a combination of one ofthe strongest individuals I've
ever met, fiercely loyal andprotective of the people he
loves, while also being one ofthe softest and most caring

(03:54):
people anyone could meet.
He's that guy that's there foryou in the middle of the night,
and not just for his family, butfor his friends too.
I learned so many lessons abouthow to have a good relationship
by watching the relationshipthat you and my mom have, and I
truly don't believe that mymarriage would be what it is

(04:14):
today if it weren't for you.
So, everyone, please welcome mystepfather, john Azalena.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Good afternoon, david .
Thank you for having me ontoday.
I appreciate everything.
I've been following yourpodcast from the beginning and
you've been doing an amazing job.
I also want to acknowledge thefact that this is going to be
difficult for me, as well aseveryone else my loved ones that

(04:49):
are listening, you, theaudience.
It's going to be very difficultfor me because I feel I'm the
most vulnerable I've ever beenin my life.
I was scared in the beginningto even come on.
I'm doing this, hopefully, tohelp anyone else in their

(05:12):
situation, whether it be theperson being diagnosed with
terminal cancer or their lovedones.
If I can help one person, thenmy job is done.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, thank you for that, John.
So we've already alluded to it,but why don't we take a step
back and why don't you walk themthrough your diagnosis and your
situation and a little bit, orat least the broad strokes of

(05:50):
the journey that you've been onwe can get into the deeper parts
of it in a bit just so thatpeople have the context of what
you're going through right now.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
So I'm going to take you back to 2024, everything
leading up to my diagnosis.
I'm 50 years old at the time.
I changed doctors so theywanted to establish some kind of
baseline.
They ran blood work At thatparticular time.
They said my liver enzymes wereslightly elevated.

(06:25):
I had asked should I beconcerned?
They said no, it's very normal.
So a few weeks went by.
I hadn't heard anything.
My better half, which isDavid's mom, she had asked you
know, have you gotten theresults?
I said no.
She are you sure?
I said no, I haven't.

(06:45):
I'd let you know.
A few more weeks go by, theywanted to get an ultrasound on
me.
The original doctor appointmentwas June 6th.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
And then we proceeded on with an ultrasound.
They came back, said they sawsome fatty tissue.
Should I be concerned?
They said, said no, I said okay.
So we continued on.
A few weeks went by and theywanted to get a CAT scan.
That's when it became real andthe doctor made me aware of the

(07:19):
situation.
He didn't know exactly at thattime and I conveyed that to
David's mom, laura.
We weren't sure of what it wasgoing to be or what the
situation was.
A few weeks go by and thedoctor calls me and he wants me
to get a complete CAT scan of mywhole abdomen area.

(07:39):
And this is August 7th.
He goes I need you to do thatright away.
So I scheduled that for thenext morning.
August 8th Went in, got a CATscan of everything.
He put a stat on it which meanshe wants the results ASAP.

(08:00):
He calls me about noon.
I ask him can I put you on holdand bring in my better half?
He goes that would probably bea good idea.
So I bring in Laura on the call.
It's a three-way call between me, the doctor and Laura, and he

(08:22):
alludes to the C-word.
Everyone hates to hear it.
C-word's cancer.
And he alludes to the C word.
Everyone hates to hear it.
C word's cancer.
He tells me.
Pack a bag.
You've got to go to theemergency room right now.
I said what he goes.
You need to go now.
So we go to the emergency room.
They determine that they have abetter facility through Aurora

(08:47):
at St Luke's.
So they put me in an ambulanceand take me to St Luke's Now.
Mind you, throughout this wholetime all these doctors,
appointments and everything, Ifeel normal.
I don't have any pain anywhere.
Everything's from myperspective.
I'm fine, right, I you know.

(09:11):
And even while I'm going there,I'm like do they even have the
right person?
Are they looking at the rightcharts?
I feel fine.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Right, I'm sure this whole thing, especially feeling
fine and having it escalate andescalate, was a bit of a
mindfuck for you.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I've been using that phrase, david, for God knows how
long.
Even right now I'm not in pain.
It's a mindfuck.
Yes, it has been.
If I was in pain, it would makeit real.
I'm lucky I'm not.
I thank the Lord and the factthat I'm not so I've been lucky

(09:51):
that way.
Going back to the timeline, Iwas diagnosed August 8th of 2024
with terminal liver cancer.
My initial reaction obviouslyit was the defense mechanism.
I'm cracking jokes trying tomake light of the situation.

(10:12):
My brother was not happy withme.
He's like this isn't a joke.
I'm like I know.
This is the only way I know howto, right now, cope with
everything.
How to right now, cope witheverything.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
And right around this time slightly before in the
timeline, when they first foundout and there were a bit more
unknowns going on I wasbabysitting our niece and nephew
with my wife, hannah, and abouta week maybe two weeks before

(10:48):
this phone call, I had beengiving my mom a hard time
because, for those of you whoremember the episode that we had
with my mom, laura Sage, onmindfulness, she is a pretty
incredible person.
In addition to being reallyreally adept at mindfulness, she

(11:10):
is a rock.
She is the type of person whoeveryone leans on.
She's kind of the epitome of amindful stoic who uses which
strategy is best for the time,and her and I are similar in
that way.

(11:31):
I was poking fun at her kind oftelling her hey, you're always
there for everyone, but if youever need someone to talk to,
you can always lean on me.
You can always lean on me.
And so I got a call from my momand her voice was wavering and I

(11:52):
said hey, how's it going?
What's up?
And she said you know how.
You said if I needed to talk,you were there for me.
I said yeah, of course.
What do you need?

(12:15):
And then I just heard her voicebreak and she said John has
terminal cancer.
And then I heard her cry and Ikind of froze up a bit and I
said, okay, tell me what youknow.
And she said there are a lot ofunknowns.
Right now I'm paraphrasing justa tiny bit because I don't
remember the exact wording, butshe told me that there was

(12:36):
terminal cancer in the liver andpossible cancer in the colon,
possible cancer in the lungs,possible cancer in the pancreas
and a tumor going up the bloodvessel from the liver towards
the heart, as well as cirrhosisof the liver.

(13:02):
I didn't know how to respond.
I was in a state of shock, butI, you know, talked to her,
asked her whatever she needed.
She just told me how much ithurt and she said he's my person

(13:31):
.
I said I know, I know I lovehim too.
And from that point we spent alot of time going to the
hospital visiting with John.
I got this phone call when theywere sending him to the

(13:54):
emergency room and I'm going tolet John pick back up in the
story.
But I just wanted to stressthat, especially right at that
beginning, there was a heck of alot going on all at the same
time and a lot of unknowns.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
So I'm going to pick back up here August 8th, when
I'm sitting in the hospital I'mlistening to several different
doctors come in and out and givetheir expert opinions on what's
going on.
I heard several different areyou having troubles breathing?
Are you in pain?
None of those applied to me.

(14:36):
The biggest one are you havingtroubles breathing?
Everyone kept asking that andthe biggest reason they were
asking that, as David hadalluded to, they found a tumor
that was growing in my vein,from my liver to my heart.
The doctor pretty much said hedidn't know how I was even

(14:59):
standing there, the situation itwas always real, if that makes
sense, but that particular dayeverything got more real.
He was shocked I was even alive.
So then I had a decision tomake.
Obviously, as we've discussedhere, my situation's terminal.
They gave me possibly two years.

(15:21):
At this point my goal is I'mgoing to try and just prove
everyone wrong.
Whether that be two years andone day I got a little fight in
me left.
The biggest obstacle I had togo through was if I was going to
allow them to cut me open andremove the tumor in the vein.
That was the mostlife-threatening situation.

(15:43):
I was scared.
I was very scared.
I didn't want to die in thehospital.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Given the situation and the specifics with his liver
, it was a high-risk surgery.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, david's being very generous, One of the
doctors that was on the surgeryteam.
Him and I were in the roomafter everyone had left that
evening and I had asked him I go, do you have kids?
He said yeah, I go, would youdo it?
He didn't answer me.
A few minutes went by and thenI acknowledged I go, I

(16:22):
appreciate the answer.
He goes.
I didn't say anything.
I go.
Your lack of answering me I gogave me the answer I needed.
This was no joke.
When the doctor described thesurgery he was going to do, I
literally asked him I go, haveyou done this before?
Because it sounds crazy.
And he goes yeah, I go.

(16:42):
You seem a little arrogant.
He goes.
No, I'm confident.
I wanted to hear that out of mysurgeon.
I'm not going to lie.
Yeah, he did a great job.
I'm not going to lie.
I spent five weeks in thathospital going through my own
things that occurred after thesurgery.

(17:04):
I had 1.75 liters of fluid thatbuilt up around my heart.
They removed that.
My heart got to one nightalmost 200.
They shocked me in order to geteverything back.
If that didn't work, they wererunning out of options.
And if that didn't work, theywere running out of options.

(17:25):
So at the end I was getting forlack of better terms.
I had to get out of there.
I couldn't do it anymore, andif that meant me leaving and God
forbid not being around, I hadto.
I couldn't take much more beingin the hospital the way the
situation was.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
I just didn't want to die there per se so no, being
in the hospital for a veryextended period of time like
that was.
We all saw how hard it was onyour mental health and I haven't
been in that situation so I canonly imagine.
But it's not exactly a funscenery.

(18:07):
It's not exactly a there's notmuch to do and you're laid up in
a bed and, honestly, we wereall just praying for you to be
able to come home.
I also want to stress that itreally was a roller coaster

(18:28):
while he was in the hospital.
Every time we would get goodnews, like there isn't cancer in
the colon you know, obviouslyan upside and then there would
be bad news, like you have atmax, six months to live if you
don't do this surgery.
And then there would be goodnews, like there's actually no

(18:52):
cancer in the pancreas.
And then there would be badnews, like there is cancer in
the lungs.
Like there is cancer in thelungs.
Needless to say, this issomething that it was obviously
tough on all of us who love youand were around.
I know it was really tough onyour mom and your brother and my

(19:21):
mom and my sister and I andHannah, who's grown really close
to you throughout the time thatwe've been dating and now
married.
I wanted you to do what youwanted to do when it came to the
surgery, but obviously therewas a part of me that wanted you
to do the surgery so that wecould just have more time with
you.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
So I probably should know the date that I was
released from the hospital.
But to be honest with you, Idon't.
I was so overjoyed to begetting out.
I couldn't get out of therefast enough from that
perspective.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Somebody else can do the math.
You gave the date that you wentto the hospital hospital and
you said it was like five weeks.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Correct, correct At that point.
Once I was released there'sstill been a little
rollercoaster of a ride to thisday being released everything
was okay.
So once I was released, it wasjust overwhelming the fact that
I was out of the hospital.
I'm thankful.
Once I was back home, david'swife, my daughter-in-law she's

(20:30):
an amazing person, woman chefshe said what do you want?
Can I make you something?
I have the best chocolate chippancakes you can ever imagine.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
I almost forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Those pancakes.
But anything she puts together,she puts together with love and
it's always amazing.
It was nice to be home.
Part of the reason I brought upthe chocolate chip pancakes is,
and part of the reason Ibrought up the chocolate chip
pancakes is when I entered thehospital I weighed 223.
I thought for the most part Iwore well.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
I'd agree.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
I wasn't obese, I had a frame of muscles, whatnot.
And then when I was releasedfrom the hospital, I got
released at 179.
So you do the math there,that's 44 pounds I lost in the

(21:34):
hospital.
It wasn't just the weight thatI lost, it was the strength,
some of the other things thatyou don't notice on a regular
basis, but in my particularsituation you do.
You go in and out of the shower, things that you don't notice
on a regular basis, but in myparticular situation you do.
You go in and out of the showerand you're like, oh my God, I
used to have arms, I used tohave shoulders.
I don't anymore.

(21:54):
I've gained weight and somestrength back and I'm thankful
for that.
I'm still still.
Every day is.
It has its own challenges,sometimes fatigue, depending on
what's going on, but for themost part, as I said, this ain't
my last dance yet.
I'm going to fight and do it tothe best of my ability, with

(22:19):
the best I can, and just go fromthere.
It's been amazing being home.
I'm probably the most fortunateindividual that you know, and
it's hard for people to say whatdo you mean.
I am blessed, beyond any wordscan say, with the family and the

(22:41):
friends that I have.
I wouldn't be here without them, without David, without his mom
, his sister, his wife, my mom,my brother, and I can't tell him
how much I love him enough.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
We're just happy to have you, John.
So what was the next step inyour cancer treatment?
So what?

Speaker 2 (23:04):
was the next step in your cancer treatment.
After I was released from thehospital, they did immune
therapy.
It's a form of I don't want tosay chemo, because there's two
different things.
The immune therapy I didn'tknow anything about it, so what
I'm telling you now is what I'velearned.
It essentially is in a form ofthe chemo, but the reactions

(23:33):
differently.
They said I wouldn't survivechemo.
Probably.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Immune therapy takes your own white blood cells and
hopefully tries to attack thecancer wherever it may be, it's
chemo in the form that it's adrug, essentially that's given,
or the way that they're doing it, but it's almost more like a
hacking of your immune system toget it to target the cancer.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
I would agree with that.
The form that it, how it'sgiven, is same as chemo and, as
David alluded to, it's yeah, forthe lack of better terms.
It's hacking your own body tohopefully fight it.
First three months went well.
They saw some positive things.

(24:18):
Unfortunately, that did notcontinue.
After the first three monthsmonths they wanted to continue
and they did, and they basedthat upon the scans that I was
given.
Everything looked to beimproving, so they went another
three rounds.
After the six months they didanother scan.

(24:40):
Immediately I got a call fromthe doctor.
Obviously, when I got a callfrom the doctor, obviously when
you get a call from the doctorimmediately after your scan, you
can assume it's probably notgreat.
Yeah.
So they said they were going tostop the immune therapy.
It wasn't taken anymore.
I don't know if my body becameimmune to it.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Everybody's body acts differently, well, and cancer
is known to adapt.
So that is some of the risk inwhat has made cancer such a hard
fight is its pure adaptability.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Obviously, neither one of us have a medical degree,
but yeah, in broad terms.
Right exactly what David said.
So at that point it was adifficult phone call.
They put me on cancer pills.
I take those daily.
They can up the ante Right now.
They're waiting to see how mybody reacts to it and they'll do

(25:41):
a scan.
At the same time of that phonecall they made me aware that the
tumor in the vein was comingback a little bit.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
The one from your liver to your heart.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Correct.
The doctor said he got 95% ofit out, but he said he couldn't
get that last five.
So now the question was isthere a way?
Can we do anything to treatment?
And when I say treatment, mindyou everyone, it's not going to

(26:15):
cure me.
This is terminal.
I know that.
I deal with this every day.
So they decided, in order tohopefully prolong my life and
prove these people wrong,they're going to do radiation
and they've done it.
Radiation has its own ups anddowns.
That's where we currently are.
I'm done with my radiationtreatment.

(26:37):
I may need more, but that willbe based upon my oncology team
and going from there.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
So you haven't seen the results of your radiation
treatment yet, correct?
I mean, besides, likephysically how you feel.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Correct.
They said the radiation.
It takes a little while to takeeffect.
So no, we had asked that, yourmother and I in our last doctor
visit.
The positive thing that I cantake from the last doctor visit
is they run blood work everytime I go in.
My blood work has been improved, it's continued to improve, so

(27:17):
that gives me some hope.
As I tell everyone, and eventhe nurses that particular day
they kind of just chuckle nowbecause I'm probably the
healthiest terminal patient youguys will ever talk to or meet
or listen to.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
It's kind of the running joke that I have to make
for everyone else and myselfyeah, I'm the healthiest one
you're gonna find one thing I dowant to point out is that your
treatment had some extracomplications due to the fact
that you had separate liver andlung cancer, which are both

(27:58):
pretty aggressive cancers andare treated in somewhat
different ways.
So it makes it harder than ifyou're just trying to treat one
cancer.
And the cirrhosis of the liveralso definitely restricts what
treatments can be done, becauseyour liver in its current state

(28:20):
between the cancer and thecirrhosis can only handle so
much.
So on the one hand, you'reprobably one of the luckier
cancer patients in the fact thatyou feel fine, but on the other
hand, you have had anunfortunate situation of being
more limited in the approachesthat they can take.

(28:41):
So I'm actually going to shiftgears a little bit here.
I want to make it clear thatyour life and your value isn't
defined solely by having hadcancer.
So I want to get into a littlebit of context and background
around your life before thecancer.

(29:05):
If you'd be willing to share alittle bit about your upbringing
and, um, just some of thethings that you've dealt with
throughout life I think for themost part I had a very normal
childhood.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
I was lucky to have two loving parents in the
picture.
All the time we were raisedraised in a blue-collar
environment my dad worked hisbutt off.
There was always food on thetable, nothing crazy.
We always had what we needed.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
And correct me if I'm wrong, but your parents, vince
and Maria, were first-generationimmigrants from Italy, right?

Speaker 2 (29:42):
Correct.
My dad came over here when hewas, I think, seven years old.
My mom came over here when shewas 20.
At the time when she came over,she married my dad in Italy.
So they came over here for abetter life, to provide for
themselves and, obviously, theirfamily, shortly after my mom

(30:03):
came over.
Like I said, she came over herewhen she was 20.
Age of 21, she had me.
We lived downtown in, probablynot in a great neighborhood.
At that point my dad bought ahouse in a better neighborhood.
He didn't want to raise hisgrowing family down in that area
.
I was born in 74.
My brother was born in 78.

(30:27):
My sister was born in 80.
My sister died in 82.
She was born with a brain tumor.
Before passing away, she hadseveral different surgeries.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
So you were 7 or 8 at the time that she passed.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
I was 8.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
8.
So do you have memories of thattime?

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, I have very clear memories.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
I'm sure that couldn't have been easy for you.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
No one of the biggest things that I take away, and
maybe, in a stubborn assholethat I am, they didn't want me
to go to the funeral slashburial, neither me or my brother
.
To be honest with you, I forgot.
If my brother went, I threwsuch a tantrum that it was best

(31:15):
suited that they just let me go.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
So you always had some fight in you.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, you could say that Absolutely, so I, you could
say that Absolutely, so I wentto the funeral.
That was difficult in itself,just being in that situation,
eight years old, watchingeveryone grieve.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Well, I'm sure it was especially tough on your
parents.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Yeah, that threw my mom in a tailspin.
Since then she's a strong womanin how she's handling the
situation of her oldest son now,but at the time it wasn't easy
and I think looking back on thatsituation made her who she is
today and how she's dealing withit, with me having cancer,

(32:00):
terminal cancer.
With me having cancer terminalcancer.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, oftentimes some of our biggest struggles, while
we wouldn't wish them on anyone, become our biggest areas for
growth.
Like you're saying, as horribleas it is for someone to go
through something like that, ina way she's a little more
prepared for or as prepared asshe can be, I guess is the best

(32:26):
way to say it for, the situationthat you guys are in now.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
I would agree, David, 100% with what you said.
Yeah, you don't wish any ofthis on anyone, but she is as
best prepared for the situationas any mother can be.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
So after the loss of your sister, growing up you
participated in a series ofdifferent sports.
You were an athlete, right.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
That is correct, david.
Football, basketball, football,basketball and track.
And when I say track, I saythat uh, very loosely.
Um, I did track to stay inshape for football.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Football was my passion, uh is what I excelled
in do you feel thatparticipating in those sports
growing up taught you anylessons for either life or for
drive, or even in a form offight, that you think have
served you either in your lifeor for your current situation?

Speaker 2 (33:33):
I do feel as though participating in some of those
sports prepared me for life, notjust the current situation that
I'm in and let me explain whatI mean by that.
I think playing football,basketball, those are the most
team-oriented sports, and inorder to succeed in those and

(33:55):
win at a high level, everyonehas to be on the same page.
You can accomplish more as ateam than you can individually,
and that holds true to this day,probably more than ever.
I couldn't accomplish what I'maccomplishing right now, even
being here on this podcasttalking to you guys, if it

(34:15):
wasn't for the team that I haveand my team.
I can't even tell you how bigof a team I have.
It's almost like a smallvillage, whether it be David,
hannah, his wife Hannah, hissister, laura, his mom, my mom,
my uncle, my everyone.

(34:35):
I'm lucky to have a group offriends going back as far as
freshman year in high school.
There's about 17 of us.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
And I believe a couple of them were almost like
back from elementary orsomething right.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Correct, damian and Pat.
They go back as far askindergarten and some of them
most of them are from freshmanyear on and we all just got
together for dinner.
Most of us went up northtogether.
Without that support team andthat team, I wouldn't be here
talking to you guys.

(35:09):
I'm thankful and appreciateeach and every one of them,
thank you.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
In fact, you just got back from a weekend up north
with that same friend group,right?

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Most of them.
There was a few.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Or who could make it.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Correct, there were 17 of us in four different
cabins.
It was a great time justspending time with the guys
getting back to somewhat of anormalcy.
It was very enjoyable.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
So I will say you are incredibly lucky to have such a
long-standing friend group ofso many close individuals to
this day.
Moving past high school, whatwas the next step in your life?

Speaker 2 (35:52):
After high school, I thought the next logical step
was college.
For some people it is, for somepeople it isn't.
I'm one of the people that itprobably wasn't, and there's
nothing wrong with that.
I met a lot of good people thatI still communicate and talk to

(36:12):
from college and, unfortunately, from the standpoint of
academics, there was some thingsthat lacked.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Some things to be desired.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, those were all on me.
But I went home after a bit,brushed off the dust and I ended
up finding a career path.
So I went home and told myparents that I was going to go
back to school.
I just needed to save somemoney because at the time I was

(36:43):
paying for everything.
That didn't happen.
I ended up getting a job incommunications.
At the time for my age and whatI was making, I couldn't beat
it.
I was making some good coin.
So I never went back to school.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
When you did a bunch of the cabling for, like GE
Healthcare and actually Iremember specifically at the
hospital Aurora St Luke's thatwe were at, you were pointing
out because you guys had done abunch of the cabling there.
So that was one small littleglimmer of interesting stuff
going on at the hospital whenthere wasn't.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
Absolutely.
Aurora is one of our biggestaccounts.
At the time when everything gotdiagnosed, I worked for a
company called CCNN CableCommunications and Network.
I can't say enough positivethings about them and how
they've treated me throughoutthis whole situation.
They've always had my back andhelped in numerous ways that I

(37:46):
don't want to get into at theparticular time, but they've
been nothing but gracious,accommodating.
The company has been inoperations, I think, for 31
years.
I don't think this is the firsttime they've ever faced an
employee having terminal cancer.
Now they've handled it.
Kudos to them, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
So, if you haven't figured it out, my parents are
divorced because obviouslyotherwise I wouldn't have a
stepfather.
But I'd like to shift gears alittle and skip forward a bit
into would you be willing toshare the story of how you and
my mother met, or how you met mymother, sure, david?

(38:33):
I'll gladly share uh the storyand this is the first time that
we've ever heard this story.
In fact, my sister, my mom,Hannah, and I Will.
We've never heard this storybefore, so it'll be new for all
of us, Not like we've heard it athousand times or could tell it

(38:56):
by heart.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
So at the time when we had met, I had established a
second job bartending.
This one particular evening,his mom, laura, I better have
came strolling into the bar withher girlfriends and obviously
there was a spark there.
I knew there was a spark on myend.

(39:22):
I'm not sure about her end, butnothing obviously occurred that
night she was there with someoneelse.
This was the beginning of thebeginning, I guess, because I
started frequently seeing hercome in with her girlfriends and
at a particular time I don'tthink either one of us were in a

(39:45):
place to be involved in arelationship.
I don't know how long this wenton.
I know I'm exaggerating, but Icontinue to tell everyone I'll
tell you what.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
I know how long this went on, because I've heard this
once or twice I'm pretty sureit went on for five years.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
I kept forgetting rejected there.
There was times where neitherone of us were with anyone and I
still got rejected you werepersistent though, yes, I.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
There was a lot of fight in you, you weren't giving
up.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
No, no, it was a long , challenging situation, but
well worth it.
I wouldn't have it any otherway.
It's built a strongrelationship for us.
Obviously, we're not married.
If you guys haven't figuredthat out, we've been together 15

(40:47):
years.
This past March.
Neither one of us needs thatpiece of paper.
I should probably marry Laura.
The only reason it neverhappened was I was in some bad
relationships prior to meetingLaura.
She got the brunt of the worst,I guess for lack of better
terms.
When we met, I told her I'mlike I'm not getting married.

(41:09):
Um, I remember her responseever.
I said yeah, I go.
If you want to change me, Ididn't say that I go, okay.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
So what changed that sparked the shift from the
five-year pursuit from the youknow, delving through the
trenches that you were dodging?
No's left and right.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
David, I love you.
I can't believe you're bringingthis up.
My opinion is I shaved my head.
I think some people areattracted to bald guys.
I shaved my head and, granted,I was in decent shape at the

(42:05):
time.
I was going to the gym four tofive times a week.
That didn't hurt.
But there was one particularinstance.
I went to meet a friend at abar and this bar is actually at
the time right where Laura livednear.
That's not why I was goingthere, but she walked in.
I was so mad at her.

(42:26):
She walked in oh you're lookinggood.
Starts rubbing my head.
I'm like are you kidding me?
So I called my buddy.
I'm like listen, we got to gosomewhere else.
There's no one here.
He's like what do you mean?
I go, let's just go somewhereelse.
So I left.
I was so agitated with her atthat particular moment, but we

(42:46):
obviously got past that.
So it's my belief it was thebald head.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
I mean, it couldn't have been anything else, right?
I don't think so.
Someday maybe we'll hear herside of the story on this
podcast, but right now you havethe floor.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Well, I appreciate it .
Hopefully I can hear her sideof it at one point.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
And then for context what year did you and my mom get
together?

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Laura and I got together March 25th 2010.
Uh, so we've been together now15 years.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
So you've been a big part of my life for 15 years now
, or 14.
I think she waited a chunk tointroduce you, but, um, I'm just
grateful for all of that time.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Thank you, david.
I appreciate you saying that,and you and your sister have
been a huge part of my life andeven my growing.
You guys have taught me so muchand showed me so much love.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Thank you and showed me so much love.
Thank you.
So, john, before your currentcancer diagnosis, there was
another major event thathappened in your life
surrounding your father.
Would you mind touching on whathappened and how that affected

(44:23):
you?

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah, january 5th of 2016, my father passed away.
He went in for a surgery.
He had cancer.
At the time, we thoughteverything was good, but they
saw a spot that they wanted toaddress and they wanted to
determine if it was cancerous ornot.
The determination was nevermade.

(44:46):
He never left the hospital.
From my understanding, obviously, I was not the individual that
was making the decisions.
That was my mom and, from whatmy mom portrayed, my dad didn't
want to be on machines.
My mom portrayed what he haddidn't want to be on machines,
but, looking back at thesituation, he was on machines.

(45:07):
My mom had asked at one pointand I had said hey, listen, you
know, I know you said but he'son machines, Mom, he's being
kept alive by this breathingmachine.
I go, whether you want tobelieve it or not, and I
understand her situation.
It was the person that she hadbeen with for 40 plus years and

(45:33):
that she loved, and I understoodthat.
Finally, we came to a decisionthat they were going to pull the
plug on the machines, and thatwas January 5th of 2016.
At that particular moment, Idecided, hey, there's no way I'm

(45:58):
going.
I'm going to be on machines.
There's no way I'm going to bein a hospital this way, the
other, I guess, situation thataffected me dramatically was the

(46:19):
doctor had to come over and askand wanted to know if we wanted
to know if that, what theyremoved, was cancerous or not.
Ultimately, it was my mom'sdecision.
I told her I did not want toknow, for the simple fact that I
wasn't going to bring my dadback.
My mom chose not to find out ifit was or not.

(46:42):
I mean, if it was, people havesaid well, you know it may have
been an inclination of yourcurrent situation.
No, I don't think so.
Not one bit.
I think the situations weredifferent in so many ways.
But that particular time was adifficult time for me.

(47:13):
It was a difficult time for myfamily, my mom, my brother.
I didn't realize until recentlyhow much it really affected my
brother, which I understand,yeah, affected my brother, which
I understand.
Yeah, I was fortunate enough atthe time to have your mother in

(47:37):
my life.
She was an amazing supportsystem for me.
Without her, I think I wouldhave gone down a darker road
than I did.
I'm not saying I didn't go downa dark road.
For about a good month Iindulged Maybe indulge is the

(47:58):
wrong word.
I hit the bottle pretty hard.
I wasn't going to sleep, I waspassing out.
Finally, your mother gave me akick in the ass.
She's like you know, Iunderstand what you're going
through, but this is going tostop right, because I'm not
going to.
I go, yeah, and that's the kickin the ass that I needed, and

(48:21):
you know, I got out of that,thank God.
I mean, and I couldn't havedone it without your mom.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
I remember that time frame and I remember how it had
a pretty profound impact on you.
I know you ended up getting atattoo in memoriam of your
father and I always really likedVince.
He was just a good guy, he wasreally nice.
I really enjoyed his company.

(48:51):
I also know that you and Hannahbonded over an unfortunate but
shared trauma of having bothlost your fathers and I know
that you have been an incrediblyhelpful presence for her in

(49:13):
that healing and grievingprocess.
Is there?

Speaker 2 (49:19):
anything you'd like to say on that?
No, I'd be happy to Please bearwith me on this.
Take your time.
Hannah means a great deal to me.
You found an amazing young ladyand, yeah, you're right, we did

(49:42):
bond because of hardship orpain and it sucks the thing that
right now for me, how I feel iswithout Hannah.
She's done so much in mysituation here and helping me
through it and I feel really badbecause I feel and I've told

(50:05):
her this that I'm making herrelive that pain that she had
when she lost her dad.
I never meant to do that.
I never wanted to put that onher or anyone else.
As I said, it's hard enoughgoing through it once but then
trying to deal with it again isalmost twice as hard.

(50:27):
But, as I said, I love her.
I'm in a lot better state ofmind than I was a few months ago
and part of that is because ofHannah and everything that she's
done on her days off.
She takes the time to come overand spend some time with me,
talk with me.

(50:48):
We listened to audiobookstogether.
One of the most profound,inspiring audiobooks I've ever
read was Tuesdays with Maury.
She wanted to share that withme.
Her dad had read that and I'mso thankful that she shared that

(51:08):
with me.
I recommend that book to anyone.
Whether you're going throughwhat I'm going through or not,
maury is my hero in everythingthat he dealt with and how he
handled the situation.
If I handle my situation with alittle bit of grace and dignity

(51:31):
, as he did, I will be a betterperson for it.
He handled himself with nothingbut grace and I hope I can do
half that.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Okay, so we'll touch on your mindset and how you've
been processing and handlingyour current situation in just a
bit.
But I do want to explicitlystate here and I'm not speaking
for her, I'm saying this becauseHannah and I have had numerous

(52:05):
conversations about this andI've actually been with you when
she said this to you you aren'tdoing this to her.
She's grateful for theopportunity to use her
experience to help somebodywho's in a time of need and she
doesn't regret getting close toyou and building a relationship

(52:27):
with you because you've helpedher so much, and she's just
grateful for the time that she'shad with you.
We both are and, yes, therewill be pain, but grief is also
an expression of love, but griefis also an expression of love.

(52:52):
You don't feel grief if youdidn't love someone.
It's a horrible, painfulexpression of love, but it's
still love.
So, john, as you were livingthrough all of these different
ups and downs, the rollercoaster of this battle with
cancer, I think it's reallyimportant that we touch on some
of the non-cancer events thathappened all around the same

(53:15):
time.
We kind of hit a point whereyou, me, hannah, anna, my mom we
would just look at each other,shake our heads and, with a sad
chuckle, just say when it rains,it pours, because each new

(53:35):
thing that kept happening reallypoured it on.
I'd like you to touch on theevents that happened surrounding
Avi or Avalon, your cat, avi orAvalon, your cat, and Fowler,
your dog, and how theunfortunate timing made this
whole situation that much harder.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Absolutely.
Avi and Fowler are our pets.
Avi's our little cat Fowler weadopted during the pandemic.
Our little cat Fowler, weadopted during the pandemic.
While I was in the hospital,laura kept me updated with the
situation with the animals andhow they were dealing with
everything, and obviously theymissed me.
Taking it a step further, abouta year prior to my diagnosis

(54:32):
maybe even longer, I'm notexactly sure Fowler started
losing weight.
He was diagnosed with kidneydisease.
They gave him maybe a year andhe went about a year.
It was tough but he kept hisspirits high.
I was hoping I would bereleased soon enough where I
could at least say goodbye.
Unfortunately that did nothappen, so Laura had to put him
down when I was in the hospital.

(54:53):
That was difficult on all of us.
I know it was particularlydifficult on your mom.
She bonded with Fowler andFowler obviously bonded with
your mom.
The cat had more of a bond withme.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
She definitely, definitely struggled with it.
I was.
I actually stayed in the roomwith her when they put him down
and both of us were strugglingwith how frustrating it must
have been that you weren't ableto be there.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
It was extremely frustrating.
It's frustrating not beingthere saying my last goodbyes to
him, but a lot of thefrustration came from the fact
that I felt helpless.
I wasn't able to be there foryour mom.
She was there for me and stillis.
She was there for the animalsand everyone, but the one time

(55:42):
that she needed me, I was unableto be there for her.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
And obviously it was out of your control.
You know that wasn't somethingthat you had a choice in and we
all know that if there was anyway you could have been there,
you would have one.
I guess bright side is thatafter you were released from the
hospital, Abby, your guy'sadorable little cat, was glued

(56:11):
to you at the hip.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Absolutely.
I was fortunate enough to havea little time with her before
she passed.
They think maybe it wasleukemia.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
And about how long after you got released was this?

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Probably a month and a half, we had to put Abby down.
November 4th, your mom adopted,laura, adopted Abby, and it was
her cat.
For the most part, she wasalways your mom's cat, but 2019,
we had to put my chocolate labdown and I would describe Abby's

(56:54):
relationship with my chocolatelab as the brother and sister
that loved each other in abrotherly sister kind of way.
The relationship Abby had withfather was kind of way the

(57:14):
relationship Abby had withFowler was oh no, this is my
domain, you just are lucky to behere.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
It's very true.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Yeah, when JD died I think we were both grieving and
she clung to me and we developedquite the strong bond.
I never thought I was going tobe a cat person.
I really never was, but shebecame my little girl.
I miss her.

(57:39):
I miss all our animals.
We had amazing animals and Iwas fortunate enough to have
them in my life and I know thatthe time I had with her after
the hospital was amazing, for meat least.
She clung to me.

(57:59):
I was home more often so shejust hunkered down on my lap as
long as she could, and that wasit.
I mean I think we stillstruggle to this day.
As long as she could, and thatwas it.
I mean I think we stillstruggle to this day.
Your mom had brought up onceadopting again, but I don't know

(58:21):
if we're in the situation andeverything that we're dealing
with where that would be a goodidea.
There's times that I'vecontemplated that and thought
about bringing it up to her, butthen I think about it and that
would just be another thing oneveryone's plate that I don't
know if we can deal with rightnow which is totally

(58:41):
understandable.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
I'd like to dive into your, to dive into your
experiences, your mindset, whatled you to this point and maybe
any lessons that you might havesurrounding this, and we can
start wherever you'd like.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Thank you, david.
Three months ago I wouldn't beable to be sitting here being on
this podcast.
I was not in the mental statethat I needed to be or wanted to
be.
My friends and everyone thatknows me and knows me well knew
I was masked and everything Iwould say, oh, I'm fine.
But I wasn't.
I had some built-up anger,frustration, quite a bit of

(59:25):
anger, to be honest with you,not that.
Oh, why did this happen to me?
I had to do some looking atmyself in the mirror and, yeah,
it sucks that I developedterminal liver cancer, but some
of it's on me.
For part of my adult life well,most of my adult life I smoked,

(59:47):
I drank.
I never thought I drank much.
During the pandemic pandemic Ihad one cocktail an evening.
Why, I don't know, can't figurethat out.
But my mindset was not where itneeded to be.
It was not just affecting me ona daily basis, it was affecting
the most important people in mylife Laura, david, hannah, anna

(01:00:10):
, my mom, my brother, my uncle.
They saw what I was goingthrough, especially Laura,
because she's with me all thetime.
She put on that strong face andoh, it's okay, because some of
my frustration would be notdirected towards her, but she
was in the vicinity of it.
I also didn't want cancer todefine me, meaning oh, he was a

(01:00:36):
great guy and he got cancer andhe became an asshole.
It's not the way I wanted to beportrayed by my loved ones and
everyone else that knew me onesand everyone else that knew me
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
And John, I do want to say this your life changed
and your future surrounding yourlife changed quite a bit, and
I'm really happy that you're inthe headspace that you're in now
.
Really, I wanted nothing morethan that.
But I also don't fault you forwhere you were at and I don't

(01:01:14):
think you should fault yourselffor that either.
You know you were dealing withstages of grief.
Whether they were in the presetorder that they talk about, we
don't need to get into thespecifics of that.
But frankly, so many areas ofyour life and your future were

(01:01:35):
changing simultaneously thatit's totally understandable that
your brain, your body, yourspirit would need to take time
to process that in differentways, to grieve what you are
losing and to find a way forward.

(01:01:55):
It's very rare for somebody togo through a grieving process
without anger.
It's basically an essentialstep.
It's a part of the process thatyou can't really skip.
It's just about when it happens.
So I'm not telling you how tolive your life or anything.

(01:02:16):
I just do think that youdeserve grace for going through
the steps in the way that youneeded to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
I really appreciate you saying that, david, but
looking back, it was more thanthat.
It was affecting everyone elseyou, your mom, my depression
made them I mean, I know howmuch you guys care about me and
it was affecting them on a dailybasis and I didn't want that

(01:02:47):
and also I didn't want cancer tofor lack of better terms define
me.
I'm trying not to let myremaining time be controlled by
this disease.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
And I'm not saying it doesn't affect me because it
does.
And I'm not saying it doesn'taffect me because it does, but I
don't want it to affect me inthe most negative ways because I
saw what it was doing firsthandto your mom.
My depression made herdepressed.
She is one of the strongestpeople and woman I've ever met
and I couldn't be going throughthis without her.

(01:03:25):
I didn't want my situation tomake her depressed.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
I think it's very insightful of you to have
reflected so heavily on how yoursituation was also affecting
the people that you love, but Ialso don't think it was your
intention to hurt anyone with it.
I think what you're goingthrough is something I can't

(01:03:56):
even fathom.
I can try and empathize to thebest of my ability and to some
degree I'm going through itbecause of my feelings towards
you and how much I love you, butI'm not saying that just to
make you feel better.
I honestly never really faultedyou for being in the headspace

(01:04:18):
that you were in, becauseaccepting something like that a
terminal cancer diagnosis out ofnowhere and all of the changes
that come with that is somethingthat very few people listening
to this truly understand theweight of, if any.
And I genuinely think that theintention matters too.

(01:04:43):
I don't believe that at anypoint it was your intention to
hurt anyone around you.
I just think you had really bigfeelings, emotions surrounding
it and unfortunately it wascausing some collateral damage.
And I think once you becamefully aware of that collateral

(01:05:04):
damage, you made a decision andsince you've made that decision,
you've stuck with it and forthat, being able to have the
mindset that you have now in thesituation that you're in is
something that I'm bothincredibly impressed with and
very proud of.

(01:05:24):
So I want you to know that I'mproud of you and I love you, and
we're going to get through thistogether.
And I brought you on herebecause I know that you have a
lot of value to provide to thepeople listening to this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
So I do appreciate you saying that, david.
I needed to get out of thatmindset because I was grieving
inside and since then I'm in abetter place.
And how I got there?
It wasn't easy.
I contribute my mindset changeto a few factors.

(01:06:04):
One Hannah on her days off shetakes the time to come over and
listen to that, tuesdays withMaury audiobook with me,
spending time with me.
David, when he's available,coming with Hannah and listening
to this podcast.
And then David's sister, hannah.

(01:06:24):
One day she had asked me to goto church with her.
I know along the road I lost myway in faith and your sisters
brought that back into my lifeand it's helped.
It may not be for everyone, butit's really helped me to come

(01:06:46):
to peace with everything.
I'm not going to sit here anddive into the whole religion
thing or whatnot.
In this particular church whereI go, it works for me.
It's been good for me.
I've gone every Sunday now forover two months.
The support system that I haveLaura, my family, my friends

(01:07:09):
keep me grounded.
I have a small village behindme and I'm fortunate that way.
I have a small village behindme and I'm fortunate that way If
it wasn't for the small villageHannah, david and everyone I
wouldn't be sitting here on thispodcast talking to you guys.

(01:07:37):
It's really transformed on how Iconduct my daily life and how I
look at things.
I mean, I'm not going to beable to change my situation, my
health.
I can only make the best ofwhat is dealt.
Nowadays.
I enjoy the little thingswaking up in the morning Okay, I
got another day Spending timewith all my loved ones, my
family, my friends, so I justenjoy the little things and try
to go as far as I can.

(01:07:58):
I think the worst thing that thedoctors did is put a timeline
on my life, because now I'm outto prove them wrong and I'm
going to do everything I can.
It's not just to prove themwrong, it's also for me.
I want a little more time witheveryone.
I've been fortunate enough toenjoy life and everything that

(01:08:23):
goes along with it.
I do want to simply touch onone thing.
I'm not here to preach toanyone, but don't get caught up
on the material things in thisworld the house, the cars, the
money, whatnot Can't take itwith you.
Enjoy the things that trulymatter, the people that we

(01:08:47):
engage with.
Those are what really matters,because now, god in the house,
the car, whatever, doesn't meananything to me.
I just want more time withthese people.
I'm going to leave it at that.
Thank you for everything.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
Wow, there was just a lot of value there.
There was so much wisdom andpractical experience from the

(01:09:39):
situation that you're in.
It sounds like you've come to aplace of simultaneous
acceptance and at least somelevel of peace, especially
compared to where your mindsetwas before.
And this simultaneous drivelike a fight.
You know where you're acceptingthe reality of your situation,
making the most of the time thatyou have, but not just laying
down and letting it happen Likethere's still a fight in you,

(01:10:00):
because not only do you want tomake the most of the time that
you have, but you want to makethe most time to have it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Yeah, I've come to accept everything for what it is
.
I mean when you're dying, youhave to accept the situation for
what it is.
I mean when you're dying, youhave to accept the situation for
what it is, because if youdon't, honestly it's going to
eat you alive.
I've encountered way too manypeople right now who have cancer
.
Your attitude is going to go along way.
If you try to portray positiveattitude, it's going to work in

(01:10:33):
your favor.
From a physical standpoint, thecancer is always going to be
there.
There's certain things that wecan do to minimize that.
Unfortunately, my situation is alot more difficult from the
outside.
As I said earlier, I'm thehealthiest dying person you guys
will probably ever hear orencounter.
Yeah, I've accepted everythingfor what it is and, like I said,

(01:10:58):
some of that acceptance I hadto do from a standpoint of I had
to look in the mirror and takesome responsibility for the
situation.
Would things be different ifmaybe I would have gone to the
doctor more?
Maybe Part of the reason I saythat is David couldn't attest.
They said that the tumors haveprobably been in me for about

(01:11:18):
five years, so could things havebeen different?
Possibly, do your dailycheckups everyone.
Maybe I would be in a differentsituation.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
I want to double click on this because you and I
have had some conversationssurrounding this and I know.
Earlier you said I don't wantto preach.
But frankly, john, it's myopinion, at least on this
podcast, that you're in aspecial position to preach.
I don't necessarily meanreligion we do tend to keep this
podcast a religious andapolitical but, um, any lessons
or things that you've learned orthings that based on your
experience, uh, you want tostress to people, feel free to
do it here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
The one thing I do want to say I've heard it from
other people who are insituations similar and they're
dying, or the old man sitting inthe hospital and he doesn't
have much time left my advice istake care of your health while

(01:12:27):
you can.
I know it's a broad statement,but everyone always says that,
even in the movies you hear oh,you know should have taken
better care of myself, and I dowish I would have.
From the outside, I looked likeyour healthiest individual that
you have ever met, but I didn'trealize until last year how bad

(01:12:49):
the situation was, whether thatbe the smoking, the drinking,
the more exercise, your checkupswith your regular doctor.
I recommend doing it all, notfor me, not for yourself, but
for the people around you thatcare about you, because they're
invested in this as well as youare, if not more, sometimes.

(01:13:13):
So I'm going to end this hereto tell everyone do what's best
for yourself and your health,because at the end of the day,
as I stated earlier, the moneywill come and go, the house will
come and go.
You can't take that with you.
The only thing that matters tome.
Anymore is the time that I havewith everyone, and if you want

(01:13:34):
more time, I suggest taking careof yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
No, it's good advice and it's from a perspective that
most people don't think about.
I haven't really thought aboutthe aspect of taking care of
your health as something that'sa kindness to your loved ones.
It's actually a really uniqueperspective and I'm going to
have to do more thinking aboutand reflecting on that.

(01:13:58):
I also want to go a littledeeper on this difference in
mindset shift.
I think you covered it prettywell, but I think there's two
different conclusions thatpeople can come to.
As a dying person and honestly,that's oversimplifying it, I'm,
you know, I'm not being shadesof gray enough here, but to some

(01:14:19):
degree there's two common onesthat emerge.
One of them is I'm going to die, so what's the point?
And the other is I'm going todie, so every second is precious
.
And, logically speaking,depending on your mindset,
depending on your thinking, theyboth make some sense, but one

(01:14:43):
of them seems like a much betteroption, in my opinion, like a
much more fulfilling option,whereas the first one doesn't
really help you, it doesn'treally accomplish much.
It's a very nihilistic way oflooking at it.
Just because you're dying, itdoesn't mean that nothing
matters, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
In regards to the first aspect that you said about
dying, oh, I'm going to die.
Let me tell you that's the wayI felt and, to be honest with
you, I think that it's.
They're masking their truefeelings.
They're scared, as I think mostpeople are.
I would catch myself saying, oh, it doesn't matter, you know,

(01:15:25):
we're all going to die you know,once the doctors and medical
professionals put a timeline onyour life, it becomes real.
It becomes real real quick.
Believe me, that changes yourmindset real quick.
Because I was that person andpart of that was, I think I was
scared, but I also I wanted toportray this larger than life

(01:15:49):
persona about, okay, you knownothing's going to hurt me or
whatever.
You know nothing's going tostop me.
And for the most part, I thinkI portrayed that persona quite
well.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
I would agree.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
But it was wrong.
I mean, deep down inside,looking back now, I was scared.
I think we all are, whether wewant to admit it or not.
That's two different things.
Now you can ask me anything.
I'm not going to lie In thesituation I'm in.

(01:16:25):
There's no reason for me tomask any of my true feelings
about any situation or any topic.
So if you want whatever realanswer, come and talk to me.
I'll give you.
I'll give it to you straight,believe me.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
That's one thing that I really admire about you even
before, but I think especiallynow you are willing to give it
to people straight.
But especially now you'rewilling to say things even if
they're uncomfortable to say, tobe vulnerable, to be real with

(01:17:03):
people, and I think in a waythat's kind of a superpower that
you've gained from this wholeexperience.
From this whole experience.
I'm not trying to be, you know,this blind optimist in what I'm
about to say.
I wouldn't wish going throughwhat you're going through on

(01:17:25):
anyone, but that doesn't meanthat no good can come from it.
And through some of theconversations that we've had,
you've alluded to the fact thatyou actually feel like, with
this new mindset, you're an evenbetter version of yourself than
you were before.
And I think there's been alittle bit of a theme throughout

(01:17:47):
this podcast of talking abouthow, while pain is real and
objective and hard, it's alsounescapable.
We're all going to have pain inour life at different points in
our life from different thingsin our life, and we can't just
avoid all pain because A it'simpossible and, b working

(01:18:11):
through the pain can cause someof our most significant growth
as human beings.
Would you be willing to talkabout some of the growth that
you feel you've had from goingthrough such a painful yet
unique experience.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Absolutely.
I didn't know we were going togo here, but it's fine.
This is going to be a littledifficult for me, so I don't
think I was a bad person beforemy diagnosis.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
I'm going to stop right there for a second and say
I wholeheartedly don't thinkyou were a bad person.
No-transcript.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Thank you for all that, david.
I appreciate it.
As I was saying, I don't thinkI was a bad person.
In my growth here, in mymindset change, in how I'm
dealing with everything, I thinkI'm a better person now than I
was before.
As David alluded to, I'm morein touch with my feelings, not

(01:19:44):
just with myself, but witheveryone else around me.
I tell everyone that I lovethem Obviously the ones that I
do love, not the ones that butI'm more in the moment with
everything that's going on in mylife.
The thing that I do strugglewith right now and I haven't

(01:20:05):
been able to answer thisquestion, I'm still grappling
and dealing with it in my ownhead is why did it take such a
profound situation for me tobecome who I am now?
I don't have the answer to thatright now.
I'm hoping to find out not foryou guys, for myself why it took

(01:20:29):
so long.
I've been trying to answer thisquestion for several weeks now.
I do a lot of this thinkingwhen I'm on my own, which is
best.
I need to figure this out on myown.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
I think that's a very powerful question to be asking
yourself.
I'm just going to restress,don't be too hard on yourself
with it but I think it's a veryself-aware, powerful question to
be asking and to be trying tofind the answer to, and I think
you're the only person that cantruly find that answer.

(01:21:06):
I know something that's beenhard for you journey is how the
shift in people's behaviornaturally tends to happen when
you become a terminal cancerpatient, and I think there's a

(01:21:27):
lesson here for anybody who isin the life of someone who is
going through cancer, or foranyone who is going through
cancer.
I think having an awareness ofthis would be a helpful thing.
You've talked about how people'sbehavior towards you has

(01:21:49):
changed and to some degreethat's inevitable because the
situation has changed, butbecause people don't actually
know what you're going through,because people can only assume
what it's like or they have adifferent experience with
someone with cancer who maybewas in a lot more pain or,

(01:22:12):
whatever the situation may be,was in a lot more pain, or
whatever the situation may be.
The way that you're treated isdifferent Almost sometimes by
some individuals it can be likefragile and frankly, in my eyes
you're not fragile, but I thinkit's easy for somebody to

(01:22:33):
over-index on caretaking, onbeing careful with you.
Would you be willing to talk alittle bit about what that
experience is like, knowing thatpeople have the best intentions
with this, but I think it wouldbe helpful to bring some
awareness to what it's actuallylike to experience that, so that

(01:22:57):
people can approach it from abetter place.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Absolutely.
Now, mind you, I'mself-sufficient.
I can drive, I can do prettymuch everything.
I have limitations and I knowthose, and I don't exceed those.
But in my head, cancer everyday slowly takes something away
from you your physical strength,your fatigue.
At some point I'm sure it'sgoing to take the ability for me

(01:23:25):
to be as self-sufficient as Iam, whether that be driving or
doing whatever, and I'm aware ofthat.
What's difficult from myperspective and I know everyone
has their best intentions yourmother.
We had a chat.
This went on for a few weeksafter I got out of the hospital.

(01:23:47):
It wasn't just your mother, itwas my mother, everyone, my
uncle, my brother.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
I mean hell.
I know I've been guilty of ittoo.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
Everyone treats you differently, Then oh, you
shouldn't be lifting that.
I take walks with Laura aroundthe neighborhood.
Can you do another one?

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
I'm fine and I understand their concern and
it's their intentions are goodintentions, but it's hard
because I went from being soself-sufficient to being not as
self-sufficient.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
I would say that you went from not just being
self-sufficient, but I think youwere also like the person that
many people leaned on.
You know you were sufficientenough for yourself and for many
others, so I think the swingwas even bigger for you I would
agree with that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
Um, and you're right about that, I didn't.
I wasn't going to I don't know,for lack of better terms toot
my own horn, or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
Well, that's okay, I'll toot it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
But yeah, you're right.
I mean, there was otherindividuals that I don't want to
say counted on me, but came tome when they needed it.
So I was more than happy toaccommodate and try to help out
in any way I could.
Now, if you guys know David'smom I love her.
When I had this conversationshe took a little time to digest

(01:25:25):
everything.
Two days went by and she wasgetting up to go to work and get
ready and I was up.
She handed me a list.
I was like what's this?
There was five items on there.
She's like you don't want to betreated different.
She goes get these done today.
I go okay, I'm like that's whatI needed to hear.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
Yeah, you were probably happy.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
So that was a shift and changethat she's gotten better.
There's times that she fallsback, but for the most part she
tries not to treat me anydifferently.
It's harder for other people.
Some people still treat medifferently and I pointed out to

(01:26:11):
them and they don't acknowledgethat and they're like oh, we
love you, that's why we'retreating you different.

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
But I think it's important for anyone listening
to do some self-reflection onyes, you care for the individual
right and yes, you want to makesure that they're not doing
something that's going to injurethem.
That's all coming from a goodplace, but we have to find the
shades of gray here.
We have to find the balance.
When you're thinking about thatperson, think both about their

(01:26:44):
physical health and their mentalhealth.
Filter it through the lens ofhow is saying this going to make
them feel?
Am I making them feel weak?
Am I making them feel powerless?
Am I making them feel powerless?
There's multiple sides to it.
You can ask things or framethings in a way that shows that
you care, while also not puttingthem in a frame or a place of

(01:27:11):
powerlessness or weakness.
For instance and maybe thisisn't a great example but off
the top of my head, saying, well, you shouldn't be doing that,
you have cancer versus hey, justlet me know if you need any
help.
Okay, Assuming that they got it, not saying like you will need
help, but also just leaving thedoor open, for if you know, it

(01:27:33):
is a little over.
I think there's always adifferent way of doing things or
framing things.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
I would agree because , especially when you said, it
makes me feel powerless andthose are some of the emotions
that I have experienced or occurI feel powerless and it's like,
please stop.
It doesn't make me feel good.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
It may make you feel good in the present time and
moment, but it doesn't doanything for me and I'm not
trying to be all about me inthis particular situation, but
it doesn't help my state of mind.

Speaker 1 (01:28:13):
And we can find a balance Doesn't help my state of
mind and we can find a balance.
I'm also going to be honestwith you, john, multiple times
throughout this podcast.
I think a lot of people don'trealize that the timing of this
podcast's launch was onlyseveral weeks before the

(01:28:33):
diagnosis.
This podcast has been wrappedaround the genesis of this
diagnosis and, if I'm beinghonest with you, multiple times
when we've had certainconversations, conversations
that we've had inspired me to doepisodes or topics on this
podcast Because I thought ifthey might be helpful to you,

(01:28:55):
they might be helpful to someoneelse, and because you've been
very front of mind I don't thinkyou realize how many episodes
you've secretly inspired no, Iwas not aware of that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
I appreciate that.
David means the world to me.
It's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
I think it's easy for us as human beings, especially
when we're healthy, to thinkthat we're bulletproof, that
nothing will ever happen, thatwe have an endless amount of
time, even if we know it's notendless, to treat it like it's

(01:29:41):
endless and to not live life toits fullest because we feel like
we have so much time.
But I think when that time getstaken away, it really emphasizes
how important time is, and itsounds like your more recent
mindset which, might I say, doesecho Maury from Tuesdays with

(01:30:05):
Maury really gets that across,and I want everyone listening to
really think about this.
Don't just roll your eyes or say, oh yeah, I'll do that and then
just let this roll off yourback.
I'm sure if you could have hadthis realization earlier, while

(01:30:29):
you were healthy, if you couldhave had the opportunity to have
somebody get this lesson acrossto you in the way that you've
come to get this lesson acrossfor yourself in retrospect, you
would want that and in my eyesthat's what you're providing to
everyone here.
You're all being blessed withthe opportunity to take your

(01:30:55):
life into your own hands andlive it.
As cliche as it sounds like youwere dying To actually put the
first things first, what mattersmost to you in your life in the
front, instead of waiting tillsomething terrible happens to
have this realization.
So I'm going to let you tellpeople one more time what's

(01:31:18):
really important.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
As I stated earlier, and I'll continue to emphasize,
all that matters is therelationships that we build with
the people that we care about.
It's not the money, it's notthe cars, it's not the trucks,
all these materialistic thingsthat we spend so much time
trying to achieve or acquire.

(01:31:41):
None of it matters anymore, atleast not in my eyes.
I'll give it all up just tohave more time than I'm probably
going to have with the peoplethat I love, but everyone has to
figure that out for themselvesin what's really important to
them, whether it be family,friends, whether it's something

(01:32:01):
else, I don't know.
At least for me, what mattersis the people.
I do want to thank you, david,for having me on.
Hopefully my situation can helpsomeone else, whether it be
through their illness or theirstate of mind and where they are
with everything.
If I can help one person, I'mhappy.

(01:32:23):
I'm hoping I can hopefullyimpact more individuals.
That would be my goal andhopefully that uh will happen.
Once again, thank you, david,for having me on on and giving
me this opportunity to talk witheveryone.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:32:42):
And thank you, john, for agreeing to do this podcast
with me.
This means the world to me and,frankly, I'm doing this one for
me, not for you guys.
I'm being a little selfish here.
This is really important to me,but I do hope that everyone
listening gets something out ofthis podcast.

(01:33:03):
This is a unique situation andI hope it makes a difference.
And remember you are enough andyou deserve to fill up your

(01:33:25):
inner cup with happiness,confidence and self-compassion.
Thank you for listening to theSage Solutions Podcast.
Your time is valuable and I'mso glad you choose to learn and
grow here with me.
If you haven't already, don'tforget to subscribe so you don't

(01:33:54):
miss out on more sage advice.
One last thing the legallanguage.
This podcast is for educationaland informational purposes only
.
No coaching client relationshipis formed.
It is not intended as asubstitute for the personalized
advice of a physician,professional coach,
psychotherapist or otherqualified professional.

(01:34:15):
The opinions of guests aretheir own and may not
necessarily reflect the opinionsof the podcast.