Mentorship is the Path to Sales Success

Wherever you are in your sales journey, you need a mentor—now.  If you’re serious about becoming a top performer or want to stay at the top of your game, you need more than just grit and determination. You need a guide. A mentor who’s been through the fire and who can help you avoid costly mistakes.  Sales expert Tony Morris stands behind the power of mentorship and the impact it can have on confidence in The Sales Gravy Podcast. Sales is about 80% confidence—you can’t afford to miss out. The truth is, the best salespeople aren’t born—they’re built. And behind almost every top closer is a mentor who showed them the ropes. https://youtu.be/QqXHY7ONs_k Mentorship Means a Better You. Period. Let’s imagine you’re new to sales. Or you’ve got some time under your belt. Or maybe you’re a seasoned vet. What do you all have in common? You all need a mentor. Most salespeople fail not because they lack talent, but because they try to figure everything out on their own. They treat sales like a solo sport when it’s really a team effort. When It’s All Going Wrong, You Need Help Take the case of Paul—fresh out of college and hungry to make a name for himself in sales. He had the energy and the drive, but he was missing something critical: guidance.  Paul made call after call, sent countless emails, and chased leads relentlessly. But his close rate was abysmal.  He’d get shut down early, lose deals at the negotiation table, and get ghosted by prospects who had initially shown interest. But sales isn’t just about following a script—it’s about reading the room.  Timing, tone, objection handling, and reading the prospect’s emotional state. That’s where a mentor comes in. Advice from a Veteran is Key After months of frustration, Paul finally got paired with Mark. Mark was a legend—consistently at the top of the leaderboard, always winning deals that seemed impossible.  Mark had also been in the trenches. He’d faced every objection and lost more deals than Paul had even pitched. Mark didn’t give Paul a playbook—he gave him a framework. He taught Paul how to listen instead of just hearing. He showed him how to control the flow of a conversation and ask better questions.  Mark didn’t just give Paul advice. He let him shadow his calls, debrief after tough conversations, and sharpen his approach through roleplay. Within three months, Paul’s close rate skyrocketed. Why? Because Mark showed him what works. Paul didn’t have to figure it out through trial and error—he had a shortcut. Ask for Feedback Positive or negative, feedback makes you a better closer. It cuts down your learning curve and sharpens your edge. There’s constructive criticism: how to fix your call framework, how your because statement falls flat, how your questions didn’t draw out the prospect’s pain. How your buyer wasn’t in the room Then there’s positive feedback—every salesperson’s favorite. What you’re doing right that you can lean into, continue to hone, and repeat.  Three Edges a Mentor Gives You Great sales mentors aren’t a dime a dozen. But the guidance they provide is invaluable. Here’s what a mentor gives you: Pattern Recognition: The best mentors will point out where you’re consistently falling short—so you can fix it and move on. Accountability: Mentors keep you on track because they’ll check your progress—and keep you focused on specific goals. When you slip into bad habits, they’ll call you out. Emotional Control: Rejection stinks and it’s hard to get over—especially when you’re new to sales. A mentor helps you separate rejection from self-worth so you can bounce back faster. Master The Game Here’s the reality: You can figure sales out on your own. You can take your lumps, learn from failures, and eventually get better.  Or you can bypass the struggle by finding a mentor who’s already walked that path. Having a mentor isn’t just about getting better at sales—it’s about becoming the kind of per...

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
And you and I know this, that the
best business is referred business because they sell
you to their network. Right? Exactly. You're gonna
convert eight times better. And the other beauty
is you never ever move on your price.
Why wouldn't you look after that client like
they're a VIP? And every client should be
a VIP where they spend $10 with you

(00:26):
or $200
because you don't know where they're going and
you don't know who they know.
This is the Sales Gravy Podcast. Hi. I'm
Jeb Blunt, best selling author of fanatical prospecting,
objections, sales EQ, and inked. And I'm here
to help you open more doors, close bigger
deals, and rock your commission check. Welcome back
to the Sales Group podcast. I'm Jeff Blitt

(00:47):
Junior. And today, we have, one of our
favorite people in the sales expert world, joining
us. He's an expert in everything from prospecting
to closing and negotiating.
He's our number one contributor on the Sales
Groovy University platform.
We're so excited to have him in from
The UK, here in the Sales Groovy studios.
We've got mister Tony Morris. I'm so excited
for this conversation. Same.

(01:09):
Before we get going, though, I I do
wanna direct people to Sales Groovy University. So,
we are gonna,
have you go take a course for free.
That's code free course at salesgroovy university. It's
learn.salesgroovy.com.
This is the most powerful sales training engine
on the planet. Allows you to take courses
from 45
plus of the world's
most leading experts in sales, and sales leadership

(01:30):
and marketing,
and you can, equip your team with the
skills they need to win more and sell
more every single week of every single month
of every single year. This is live and
on demand classes taught by our senior sales
gravy master trainers. Again, go take a free
course if you haven't already. That's salesgravy.com
or learn.salesgravy.com.
And Sales Groovy University is where you can

(01:52):
find all of that information. So, Tony, so
happy to have you on the podcast. Nice
to be here. I look forward to the
conversation.
One more call. I I know that we
were talking about that, a little before. Where
did Jeb get that? I know you talked
about prospecting with Jeb in the in the
podcast that you recorded with him. You know,
I think it kinda stemmed from,
he
he had this customer, and I think he

(02:12):
tells a story on stage. He had this
customer,
or prospect that was his big contract. I
mean, they were, you know, three in a
three year contract that,
didn't renew,
ever, and or or renewed with the same
company all the time. And when he he'd
never gotten the contract, it was like, well,
you know, CentOS was the company that that
he was competing against.
And so he figured out when that contract

(02:34):
date was, and he started calling that person,
at ninety days out from whenever that contract
was being signed, and he was determined,
based on his, you know, his boss. He'd
sold the biggest, deals of the entire year,
and he was, like, the number one salesperson
in the company. And then he kinda coasted,
and he had no pipeline. His boss told
him he would fire him. And so he
made he was determined he made a hundred

(02:55):
calls a day, and every single day was
the one more call was to this biggest
contract that he could ever sign,
to that person. He left a voice mail
every single day for ninety days, and finally,
the person got back to him. And so
I think that the one more call was
like, that was the one more call. Please
tell me he won the deal. Right? I
think so. I, you know, I wasn't there.
But Yeah. But I love it, though. It's

(03:15):
it's simple, but it's so powerful. Most people
quit early. Right? Most people do quit early,
and I think that that leads into a
lot of the the sales
motion, and it does for me. You know,
I'm, I'm I'm no different than anybody else.
I'm not, the the most
elite salesperson in the world. I'm not the,
you know, the fastest, smartest. I'm not the
strongest, but, you know, we we at Sales

(03:37):
Group, we outwork people.
And I know that that's sort of one
of your,
your philosophies as well.
I mean, you're a hustler. We see you
all the time.
But people give up early, especially in deals.
I think that there's,
almost a
a resistance to
keeping the deal going,

(03:58):
when
you feel like it's not being,
I guess, perpetuated by the customer, like the
prospect. You know, they're not giving you the
next steps. They're not indicating to you where
the you know, where to go from there,
and your people leave meetings,
without asking for next steps. And that's that's,
like, our number one rule. It's the most
common thing I see. Right? So I call
it SAS. So you end a meeting with

(04:19):
Sunrise. Do you sort of say, you know,
key points we talked about blah blah blah.
Have I missed anything? And they say, yeah.
Just that bit. Great. Well, look, what I'm
gonna do, action, I'm gonna send you over
a reference for you to speak to, etcetera,
etcetera. If you can send me over your
t's and c's so we can prepare for
that and then schedule. Looking at my diary,
I can do next Wednesday, quarter to eleven

(04:40):
or quarter past four, and then it's booked.
And if you do SAS every time, you're
in control. Right? And you do this every
single day. You you work with sales teams.
What is the resistance?
Do you hear resistance from salespeople
for doing this? What what what do you
what do you actually observe, in the field?
I I think for leaders,

(05:00):
this is something that they have to deal
with all the time.
But as, you know, as a salesperson, if
I think if it's in your DNA, like,
it it it's sort of hard to understand.
But as a leader and you have a
team of seven people, right, and five of
them are not doing this, how do you
start to encourage this, build confidence? What is
it that you've helped
these organizations
do to eliminate

(05:21):
the, deals withering on the end of the
line? Yeah. You know what? It's a lot
easier than people think. So if I was
a sales leader I am a sales leader,
but we're not with, you know, managing my
team. But the sales leaders out there listening
to this, every single time a deal's in
a pipeline, they say to the team, great.
What's next steps? Simple, what is next steps?
And if the salesperson can't have an instant
response, they've not done their homework. And then

(05:43):
you say, right. Summarize the situation. If they
can't, they've not done their work. Because I
think some of the common mistakes they make
is they don't put the notes into the
CRM,
Salesforce, Pipedrive, whatever.
That's an error. Right? Because if I die
tomorrow,
we've got no opportunity.
Yeah? As well as I'm sad that the
person died as well as that, obviously. That
comes first. But put your notes in and

(06:03):
have a follow-up. Because the truth is this.
Right? What gets scheduled gets done. If it's
in the diary, you do it. Right? If
your boss says meet me at 04:00, it's
in the diary. So you need to schedule
this stuff. You need to have that schedule,
but get the client or prospect commitment
because then they're committed, and and that's a
a mini win. Right? I think that's quite
easy. But and I think the other point

(06:24):
of so I think there's a couple of
reasons. They forget. I think salespeople just forget
to do it. I think they're lazy.
And they're complacent.
And I think it does come from the
top that sales leaders are not on top
of them enough. Right? And I think if
I look at a pipeline with a salesperson,
often there's the maybe column. And it's a
maybe column because they've not qualified properly, not

(06:45):
done a good discovery, and they've not followed
up and scheduled. That's why it's a maybe.
It's interesting that you have those two columns
in the categories of of my pipeline when
I've been
in a place where I wasn't winning as
much as I as I should have, the
maybe column starts to and it will always,
but it starts to really outweigh
the for sures. You know, the for sure

(07:07):
column is, you know, maybe I got five
deals and I've had great conversations and they're
easy and they're fun and, like, the people
on the other end are great and, you
know,
some of them don't close and that's the
heartbreak those are the really heartbreaking ones.
And and you I think as a human
being,
you wanna spend time with the things that
are easy. Like, we are we're like water.
Right? We always go to the lowest point.

(07:27):
We wanna go to the easiest way to
to to, to to win a deal. And
if you only have five deals in your
pipeline,
and maybe they're big, but maybe they're small,
You're gonna work on those more with your
heart because they're easy. But then you have
the maybe column, and the maybe column starts
to grow and grow and grow and grow
and grow. And I imagine that when you
are working with sales organizations, when you're coaching

(07:49):
your own team, that that maybe column is
where you really make money. I mean, that's
where you trans you know, that's where you
transform your life. That's where you transform your
career. Well, it's interesting.
It can be the opposite. What happens is
you get disillusioned. You think, I've got this
200,000
pipeline, but you don't. You got a $25,000
pipeline, and you're making yourself feel good. So

(08:11):
every day, like, yeah. I've got this big
pipe. Actually, it's not real. It's you haven't
had the confidence. You've not qualified properly to
know all the right stakeholders in involved. You've
not found out the decision the decision making
process.
That's very common. Right? So I think in
a way, I'd rather salesperson have a small
pipeline, which is gonna make them get up
earlier and do one more call, you know.

(08:32):
And I think that's the key. So I
think stop almost making yourself feel good because
you got a list of maybes and actually
go out and do business. Yeah. You know,
it's interesting. I had, I had an experience
as a as a field sales rep, and
this was it's always been more of my
my mode. I don't know why. I have
no explanation for you. You can help me
with this, and you're my therapist now. So
I worked a small pipeline. And when I

(08:53):
I was telling you earlier, I was in
the field, for Sky, for Comcast. I was
selling business Internet services.
And one of the things that I would
do is I would have, you know,
eight prospects in a month. I had a
monthly quota, and I had to hit it
by the third week of the month because
their scheduling was odd and, you know, there
was really no breaks. There was no, you
know, not quarters. You didn't have a you

(09:14):
didn't have a full quarter, and then you,
like, get balls to the wall in the
third month of the quarter and you were
hoping you close things. Every month was balls
to the wall. We would, you know, we
would run these massive pipelines. My team would
run these massive pipelines. They'd have all of
these different opportunities in there, and it was
the same conversation you just talked about where
people
would,
they would forecast. You know, I would I'm

(09:36):
gonna close this, this, this, this, this, this,
this, and this. And, you know, the manager
would go, okay. Okay. Okay.
You know, I would have, like, three or
four opportunities that I would say, I'm gonna
close these. And I closed every single one
of them, but I ran really lean.
And, I I like I like what you're
saying. It it helps you get up in
the morning and make one more call. And
I it was stressful,

(09:57):
but I was confident,
versus
inflated and unconfident. So,
why do you prefer that? I mean, just
kinda dive deeper into that, maybe that mindset
versus a really big pipeline. Yeah. I think
it's two or three key points. Right? One
is the
the say there's a eighty twenty. Bill Freda
Pareto, the Italian comp, said 80% of your

(10:18):
business will come 20% of your pipe. I
think that's the first thing. So know who
that is. I think the second thing is
you never wanna put all your eggs in
one basket because the the downside of having
four or five is if they don't drop,
you'll be in trouble. And also if they
do drop, then they cancel, you're in trouble.
So you you wanna obviously manage that and
almost have a diverse pipeline. I think it's
the other the really important point. But but

(10:40):
I think and the other thing is sales
people always do take the easy option. Some
of them are lazy and they have these
bad habits. Right? And it's I think you
have to be consistent.
And when I recruit salespeople, I want them
in debt.
I want them that actually, if if they
don't pay their bills that month, they're in
trouble. Because I know not every salesperson is

(11:01):
motivated by money. They are motivated from fear
of losing their property, losing their partner, you
know, not better pay rent on time. That's
a fear. So, therefore, if they're in debt,
that's gonna, I believe, push them. Right? And
I think the final point is sales leader,
if they're a good leader, should know conversion
from forecast
to deal. And if I was had 10

(11:23):
people and Tommy always said I'm gonna land
this hundred thousand pound deal every single month
and he always does $10, we got a
problem. Because then it's either he's stupid, it's
either he's lying, or either he's not qualified
properly, or all of those three. So but
it's the leader's job to know that and
identify that and actually say, you know what?
Tom is a good guy, but he needs

(11:43):
help. There's a training gap or he's just
a liar. One of the two. Right? And
so there I know there are people listening
to those podcasts who span the spectrum. There
are people who are not necessarily hungry because
they have to be, but hungry because that's
just their makeup, and those are the top
those are perennial top performers.
But there are people who are in that
space where, you know, they're projecting the hundred

(12:05):
thousand pound quarter,
but they're closing the £10,000 quarter. And, you
know, they wanna change it, but they're not
exactly sure where to go. So it kinda
things always sort of stay the same and,
you know, they're working with their leader and,
you know, they're worried about losing their job,
but their heart's in the right place. So
what can those people do to start
changing the game up? You know, where where

(12:26):
where can they start to pull levers that
would that would move them from 10,000 to
maybe 50,000 Yeah. To to 75,000
and and so on and so forth. Makes
sense. No. Really good question. So I think
it's two or three things.
The problem of having quite a small pipeline
is you become desperate because you think, oh
my god, I'm three weeks away from quota
and

(12:46):
it's not looking good. So then you get
very desperate, and then and I call it
commission breath. And no one likes commission breath
because when you're desperate, you just want all
you think about is yourself. I better hit
target as opposed to a professional of I'm
there to serve and help you. And and
and I know you're in the same mindset
and so is Jeb and I of I
genuinely wanna help. And if I can't, I'll

(13:08):
tell you. I had an inquiry yesterday, right,
a big speaking gig in America, and I
actually said, I'm not the right person. I
know you found me on YouTube.
I'm not your right guy. And she was
taken back from that. And I said, listen.
It'd be great in the future, but I
said, I've got three experts based on our
conversation.
I think they're better than me. And I
said, let me reach out to them. I'll
introduce you. But she'll remember that. Right? And

(13:28):
when the right opportunity comes about, I'm getting
it. Because and I suppose I'm lucky that
I or maybe it's luck, I don't know,
that I've always got a very healthy pipeline
because for those sort of reasons, and then
I'm not desperate. Right? I'm not desperate. So
I think I think that's one massive point
that you need to you've gotta be hungry,
but you've also gotta keep the pipeline always

(13:49):
full.
You know? Yeah. Absolutely. I I I, and
what it what it ends up doing and
and that your turn away from from her,
like, she'll remember that. Yeah.
But it also
prevents you from that desperation of of closing
deals. Right? And then that customer is unsatisfied
by the service. And, you know, if you're
if you're a salesperson,

(14:11):
one of the harder things to do that
I I had a hard time doing was
wrapping my mind around as be you you
are you should think like a business owner.
Because as a salesperson, you're an entrepreneur without
the overhead of having to employ people, without
overhead of product or operations or,
you know, the business has to incur all
those expenses. But, if you close a deal

(14:32):
because you're desperate, you know, maybe it's a
software deal, and, it's, you know, a hundred
thousand, hundred thousand pound deal, a hundred thousand
dollar deal,
and, you know, you sign that contract, everything's
like, Woo! Like, I won the deal! Like,
fantastic! But you didn't qualify well because you
were desperate, you didn't, understand their situation, you
sold the wrong products to the wrong customer,

(14:53):
and then, you know, they come back and
it's three months later and they wanna get
out of the contract and It's gonna bite
you. It's gonna bite you. Buy you. Is
coming after you because they paid you a
commission that they Of course. You know, they're
Well, I think there's two big points as
well. So one of the big reasons that
not not every time, but I would say
30% of the reason it's not converting is
they're not speaking to the right people. Right?
We know you've got influence and stakeholders,

(15:15):
and a lot of people struggle to really
identify who they are. They struggle to, I
guess,
ask without being pushy or without without offending
or patronizing the influencers.
So there's two techniques I teach, and it's
really simple again. One is if I said
to you, Jeb Junior, aside from you, who
else is involved in this project? And you'll
say, me, Tom, Dick, and Harry. And then

(15:37):
I do what I call my justification statement.
I say, look, Jeff Junior, I need to
meet you, but I also need to meet
Tom, Dick, and Harry because they're gonna have
different questions to you. And I need to
answer all of those so together you can
make an informed decision. And then I take
it away from you, and I call this
don't ask tell of, look, looking at my
diary, I can do Wednesday or Friday next
week. When's best? Now what often happens is

(15:58):
the influencer will say, well, I don't know
their diary. I said, that's okay. Let's find
a spot for you. Let's provisionally provisionally book
it. You speak to them, and then we
can get back to each other. This is
a mini win. Right? Rather than me chasing
of have, you know, whatever it might be.
I all I'm doing is chasing to confirm
the date or move the date, you know.
I think it's quite easy win, but, again,

(16:19):
people don't do the easy things. No. It
comes down to you. Right?
And and and the the psychological impact
of that
of of that conversation where you say, let's
provisionally put something on the calendar.
What it does is it'll it gives you
leverage. Yep. Where Yep. You know, they have
they owe you. Yep. They owe you data.
Getting you Tom, Dick, and Harry's information and

(16:40):
and putting it on the calendar, and they
now they have some ownership in this process.
You know? And they're invested in this process.
Right. If they if they have to go
to Tom, Dick, and Harry and have this
conversation and it you know, now they're sort
of an extension of you.
And so they're they're actually selling the product
that you're selling up into and sideways. And
now they're They're ambassador. They're ambassador. Right? They

(17:01):
put their name on it a little bit.
Right. So it almost it almost puts pressure
on it to work out. Yeah. You know,
and and we do this internally. We've got,
you know, different vendors coming to our account
management team and, I'm a I I sit
on the marketing team, and we have these
different softwares to come in. And, you know,
hey. If I if I think something looks
really great and they I have a sales
conversation with them, they go, what's the process

(17:21):
look like? Well, I have to go sell
it to, you know, this team member, this
team member, and and ultimately, JEB Senior. You
know, if I have to go sell it
up, well, I'm putting my name on it
a little bit. That's my reputation.
And, I think as sellers, we don't we
don't take that into account very often that
if I'm talking to to you, Tony, and
it's your organization,
and you go up or you go sideways,

(17:42):
you're putting your name on it as well.
And it could affect me if we decide
to do it, and they're like, Jeb, Jeanie,
you put this in front of us. Why
did you endorse it without doing your homework?
Right? And it's your reputation within the business.
Right? I think there's another point, though. We
lose deals because you're human. But for me,
I actually quite like the loss because I'm
always learning. Right? You know, if you look
at the greatest salespeople in the world,

(18:04):
they are work in progress. I remember interviewing
Art Subject on my podcast. I love Smart
Calling was when I first booked. Love it.
And and he said this to me in
my podcast. He said, no one graduates from
the school of selling.
I love that. Right? We're always work in
progress. You know, a mentor said to me,
if you're the most knowledgeable person in the
room, you're in the wrong room. Yeah. And

(18:26):
and I think the key point there is
if I lose a deal or when I
lose a deal, you have to get feedback.
This is the mistake most people make. The
salesperson
phones for feedback.
Now if the prospect didn't rate me, didn't
like me, didn't feel I was credible,
they're most often not gonna say that because
it's rude. So they'll take an an easy
out and that's nonconfrontational.

(18:47):
Like, it was just your price or it
was just, you know, it was my boss's
decision Right. Which isn't always true. So the
best way to do it is get a
colleague to do it.
It's the best way. And and I'll give
you an example. Yeah. The terminology I use
is this. So let's say, Job Junior, you
lose a deal to a guy called Rob.
Right? Rob's your prospect.
I would phone Rob. And I'll say, Rob,

(19:07):
Tony Morris, thanks for taking my call. Reason
I'm phoning is I know you've been dealing
with Jev Junior, and I know you chose
not to move forward, which is which is
absolutely fine.
The reason I'm calling at SalesGravy,
we thrive for excellence,
and we would really value your honest feedback
of why you chose not to move forward
with Sales Gravy or Cheb Junior. You will
not offend him, and you certainly won't offend

(19:28):
me. You just wanna learn. So just help
me understand that if you will. And people
love giving feedback. They love it. What and
what great lessons is that? And now what
also happens is their barriers go down because
you're not selling. You get feedback.
And, actually, you might say, you know what?
That's a really good point. Deb Junior is
not the right person for this. You need
to speak to Laura. I think, from what

(19:49):
you've told me, she's the right fit. And
all I ask of you is, can we
have a second chance? Meet Laura, and then
let's get some feedback. So it's it's a
double win. Right? I I like using your
colleague for feedback.
One of, my favorite folks,
Larry Levine, he I love Larry. Yeah. He's
so so cool.
And he, he talks about, you know, you
should always how do you know? Well, you

(20:11):
do you go talk to your customers? Do
you go get feedback from your customers? And,
you know, I'm I'm one of those people,
and I'll I'll self admit that it's very
difficult for me because, I think emotionally,
I I don't I don't want the, you
will you sucked.
You were, you know, you were pushy.
You you stumbled over your words too much.
Your presentation was terrible. Like, my ego

(20:32):
Oh, we've all got one. Right? I've got
one. We've all got one. I don't know
if I can handle it, but I like
the colleague because it it makes sense. And,
also, I think that one of the things
that that has always kinda held me back
from from those conversations is, well, if I've
lost the deal
for for good or for bad, if they
didn't like me, why would they give me
feedback?
Did they I mean Well, yeah. And that's
a very fair point. And that's why you
don't do

(20:54):
do the call. I think that I think
that's absolutely Yeah. An amazing idea. Yeah. And
there's another point, though. Another time to get
feedback is when you win the deal. We
don't do that. Right? And I I call
it, you know, we talk about your USB,
right, your unique selling point. I've got an
issue with it. Two reasons. One, is it
unique? Who knows? And it's a selling point
and no one wants to be sold to.
It's commission breadth. So selling point serves us,

(21:15):
not the client. So I call it UCB,
the unique client benefit. It's all about them,
not us. And the way to know your
UCB is interview your clients and just say,
look, I want feedback. You've been dealing with
me now for a month, two months. Just
give me feedback of number one, why you
chose us, not chose me. It's a bit
egotistical.
Why'd you choose us? And what's been your
experience up to now? And then pick up

(21:36):
all the different words they're using. And when
you start to see common patterns amongst this
feedback,
that's what you use in your sales pitch,
your presentations,
your marketing material. Because if we know what
our customers think, we're winning. Right? I I
love and I I love that, and I
think it's it's vitally important.
Maybe have a colleague do that too.

(21:57):
One of you know, I'm, again, self admitting,
one of the challenges, I I don't wanna
go find out that it wasn't me. You
know? What if it wasn't That's hilarious. You're
too sensitive, Georgina. I know. What if it
was just my price? Or what if it
was what if it was the beauty of
the presentation? Or, you know You know what?
It's a it's a point I really wanna
make to you. Right? So I I've I've
been a professional speaker twelve years. And I
remember my first coach, right, a guy called

(22:18):
Graham, he was an amazing speaker.
And I paid him a lot of money.
And I remember he came to watch me
deliver, and we went for coffee afterwards. I
said, how was I? He said, you were
shit.
I was, alright. Tell me how it is.
And he said, Tony, it was horrendous. And
I was like, alright. You know, chill out.
Okay, man. Chill out, man. And he said,
Tony, you've paid me to give you my
feedback.

(22:39):
You chose me, and I value that. You've
done it because you see me whatever it
is. I wanna help you the best I
can. And when he said, I thought, okay,
that's fair. And then later on when he
did it again, he said, Tony, this is
my gift to you. And the gift was
feedback. Right? And it's it's fair. So I
actually I actually see it from a completely
different lens. I need feedback. And, yes, sometimes

(23:00):
I don't like it if they said, we
thought you're a bit of a dick. It's
like, okay, fine. But, you know, my wife
says the same thing. But but for me,
it's about what can I take from it?
And and also, actually, just on that, if
they did think I was a bit of
a dick, maybe I didn't adapt
to their persona. Maybe it is my fault
or I was just a dick. But often,
it's I didn't spot that they're buying patterns,

(23:21):
you know, how they saw the world. And
I didn't adapt. And we know it's a
massive error in sales. Right? This is a
challenge for the sales profession.
You know, I I think across well, at
least the the cultures that we're that we
sell in. Right? So, you know, the The
UK,
and and in America,
United States, very advanced selling cultures. We've been

(23:42):
doing this. I mean, capitalization has been happening
since, you know, the industrial age. We're very
adept to this kind of culture. But one
of the challenges for sales is that it's
arrogant. You know, a lot of it is
confidence, and arrogance and confidence are are High
nine. Right? High nine. And so, you know,
when you are working with sales organizations and
you're helping them ask better questions, this is
one of the areas that you're an expert

(24:03):
in, and and I love the courses that
you have on Sales Gravy about this.
How do you help a seller adapt,
and and ask questions so that it doesn't
come off as arrogant? Yeah. Yes. It's such
a I get asked this a lot. Right?
It really is difficult because,
look, we don't know if we're being confident
or arrogant because it's not about us. It's

(24:25):
the perception of your client or prospect. So
they are gonna take it a certain way.
And also, we are seen differently by different
buyers. So, you know, if you look at
insights, a green buyer,
not normally would look at a red behavior
who's confident,
direct,
arrogant, and they'll go, god, that guy's arrogant.
But, actually, to a yellow behavior who's extrovert

(24:47):
and empath like you and I, they'll go,
I wish I was as confident as him
or her. So it's interesting. So I think
the two points, one, know who you're speaking
to because
one will think you're arrogant, one won't. But
the second thing is sometimes preface with I
hope I'm not coming across as arrogant because
that's obviously not my my objective.
I am so passionate about this, and I

(25:09):
know I can help you. And and I
just wanna get that across. And if it
comes across as arrogant,
please don't let it. So by prefacing it,
actually and I think, yeah. Okay. When he
said he's he's not being arrogant, I take
that now rather than just being confident and
potentially arrogant. And I think this is a
great piece of language to throw into your
you know, your arsenal,
especially if you're a seller and you get

(25:30):
to a point in a sales conversation. Like,
obviously, there's your initial discovery, and and you
have to essentially, I'm just asking questions the
entire time. Like, I'm I'm doing almost no,
solution selling. I'm not selling at all. In
fact, I'm just trying to make sure that
we're even on the same page or that
I can sell to Absolutely. To this customer,
or prospect.
And
there's there comes a point where

(25:51):
as a as a seller,
there's two paths. Right? The one group of
sellers will ask questions, ask questions, ask questions
all the way through, and they are sort
of an order taker,
at the end of the process, which works
Absolutely. To some degree, obviously.
But what happens is you never become an
authority.
And what you do is you help sellers

(26:14):
ask great questions, but there comes a point
where you have to step in and say,
mister customer,
I've got to say this. I've got to
I've I've got to tell you this because
I do this every single day. And that
can come across as arrogant. Yep. And throwing
in that little piece of language, like, I
hope this doesn't come across as arrogant. Yes.
Because
I'm just passionate about this. And I work
with, you know, 50 customers in the last

(26:36):
quarter. They're dealing with some of the same
challenges, some different challenges, but we're I'm helping
them with the solution. Can I give you
my 2¢? And it's a really amazing point
you made. And, actually, you can make it
even just to another
adjustment,
stroke the ego. So let's say I'm speaking
to a global sales director.
I'm saying you're a global sales director. I
can never do what you do. And the

(26:58):
feedback I've had from your peers, you're sensational.
And I I applaud you because that's a
tough gig. My job is to help your
team and help you develop them, and I
hope this isn't arrogant. I just like to
give you my valued advice or, well, you
know, share my experience.
Now I've preface with, I can do what
you do. You're, you know, you're exceptional.

(27:18):
Fibrain, who's been incredible,
hopefully thinking, okay. I like this guy. He's
given me stroking my ego. I'm now gonna
take his points on board. So I think
it's really important we preface with compliment first
and then share your advice personally. I I
think that that is an incredible way to
go about it. It it also, you know,
one of the things we teach here is
aced, which is, similar to to what you

(27:39):
do with the with the colors and and
flexing to different buyer styles. So you can
actually download the buyer style guide, the ace
buyer style guide on SalesGravie,
or or go to Tony's website and and
find his guide. I'm sure you have. I'd
rather have you also. I haven't heard of
that. Let me It's it's just a it's
just a a breakdown of different personalities. Love
it. How to flex to them. Love that.
You know, one of the challenges is, you
know, for for a strong person personality type

(28:00):
like us, we can't flex 180%,
you know, or a hundred and eighty eighty
degrees.
We typically can do a little bit of
flexing, but we end up just being who
we are. Yep. What you just brought up
is it allows you to say to the
grain buyer,
look. I know I am who I am.
Yeah. And I apologize for it. Yeah. Yeah.

(28:21):
But this is you know,
don't take it this way. This is how
I'm going to present it. And I had
a sales conversation
yesterday or two days ago with a company
who's looking to pitch us a solution for,
you know, something that's technology based.
And the first salesperson I had was not
flexing to my style, and we are very
much the same. I'm I'm a salesperson salesperson,

(28:41):
very high energy, you know, see like, very,
akin to, like, CEO Yeah. Mindset. And that's
just, like, how I present. Yeah. And this
person was more of the analytical, very more
monotone, very, like, let's go through the process.
And, you know, I spend the entire meeting
going, like, alright, buddy. Yeah. Get on with
it. Let's get to the next thing. He
brought in a senior salesperson
who,

(29:02):
was just more my style, and he pitched
everything at me. He was, you know, maybe
a little bit arrogant about he asked great
questions, but,
like, I was I was vibing with this
human being. We had we spent an hour
talking,
and so, you know, flexing to your different
buyer styles is is a challenge, but know
where your place is. Absolutely.
And and maybe pass along deals to other

(29:23):
people that I was about to say that
one. I don't know if you've got you
do this in your profile, but I I
look and I tell my clients color codes
your prospects
to know that that person's more of an
ultra red, that person's sort of strong yellow.
And actually, if I if someone's a strong
blue, right, very analytical, I'm not. Now I
can show up and give value, show my

(29:44):
expertise, give facts and figures,
and not have the the the relationship that
you and I would have. However, maybe an
ultra blue is better with that person. Yeah.
And sometimes I say, I say, you know
what, George? I actually think you should be
speaking to Jeff. I actually think you two
will be, you know, I think you two
will be on the same level,
and I wanna make sure you get the
best level of voice. And I think sometimes

(30:05):
we can do that, you know, and I
think it's it's done with some class and
gravitas.
I think it goes a long way.
So going back to your business,
you are twelve years of speaking,
world renowned speaker.
What are,
sales organizations
not doing
that
you wish they were doing more often? K.

(30:26):
Quite a few things. Right? One is really
know,
genuinely know the motivation
and demotivation
of everyone in your team. Because what drives
you is what drives them. Right? Even if
it's money, what does that actually mean? How
much, by when, why, etcetera.
So really know what drives them, but also
what doesn't. I always say to leaders, right,
draw a tree. Draw a tree. Any type

(30:48):
of tree, and they'll draw different trees. And
then I say, what's the most important part?
The tree.
The roots.
And out of not a hundred pictures,
99 don't have the roots because it's below
the surface. So when you're as a leader,
you need to go below the surface with
everyone. I think that's the first thing. I
think number two is understand
where they believe their gaps are and coach

(31:09):
them. Constant coaching. Right? You you and I
both know. Right? Habits take anywhere between thirty
eight and seventy two days. So get them
building the right habits, not the wrong habits,
the right habits. And that's with coaching, supporting,
listening to everything on sales gravier, and then
practice that stuff. Right? Because if they don't
invest themselves, why should clients invest in them?

(31:30):
Right? In my opinion.
Yeah. I I've I've been in different organizations,
and when you don't have
support, training support,
you don't necessarily miss it. And and I
think that's important to note is that, like,
salespeople are never gonna say, hey, I need
more training. Yeah. They're never gonna tell you
that. No. It's true. When you say that,
the really good ones will. The really good

(31:51):
ones will. You know? Isn't that interesting? The
really good ones are like, Tony, what book
did you say earlier? And and what's that
about? Like, the greatest salespeople
are well, that's why they're great. They're a
sponge, you know? They are a sponge. And
if anyone ever says to me, Tony, I've
been doing this forty years. Right? You have
forty eight. I'm like, well, if you're happy
with never getting better, that's cool. Yeah? And,

(32:12):
you know, there's a reason Djokovic is the
greatest tennis player of all time. So he
practices more than any other tennis player. Right?
He has seven coaches. But if you're happy
playing at your level,
that's that's that's on you. Right. Because that's
the truth. Right? The second I say, I've
done it for x. What, you know, what
does that mean? Okay. Great. You know? Or
I've got this level of experience. I don't

(32:33):
like experience. I like success. I'd rather have
a twenty one year success than fifty eight
years of by the average. So that's that's
the other point. But going back to your
other question of what can leaders do, and
I wanna take you back to something you
said earlier. You said about
use you think like an entrepreneur and a
business owner. Right? And the top salespeople do.
I always did without being arrogant. I hope
I'm not being arrogant of I used to

(32:55):
think this is my baby. This is my
business. Right? Because I'm in control of what
I earn. Not my boss, not my prospect,
me. So in a way, I am a
business owner for me.
But I what salespeople miss is the cost
of a lead. So let's say we spend,
argument, say, keep it simple, a thousand pounds
on lead generation, and we get 10 leads.

(33:15):
Every lead's worth a hundred pounds. Right? Salespeople
don't think like that. So when I give
them a hundred pound lead and they phone
it three times and put it in the
bin,
I go, did you know how much that
one lead just cost you? No. Well, it
cost you nothing. It cost me a hundred
pounds. You've just thrown a hundred pounds in
the bin.
How dare you? Yeah. And when they're like,

(33:35):
oh. And I said, so if you're a
business owner and I threw your hundred pounds
in the bin, how would you react to
that? And they're like, oh, I didn't see
it like that. You know? So it's getting
them seeing it from the business owner's lens.
And that's that's good leadership in my opinion.
It's it's that and, what really
put this in perspective for me is I
I I worked in this local area where

(33:57):
we're sitting right now. I had a massive
territory,
but my,
leadership was in a completely different state and
in a different territory, in a different city,
and I was the only person here in
this in this area. That's tough. And and
it was tough, but it was great because
I it made me an entrepreneur in the
way in in the sense that, if I
owned the experience

(34:19):
of my customer base, they would reward me
with more business.
Great. And if I didn't
deliver Yeah. You know, if I didn't deliver,
not not the business, not not the corporation
You delivered on your promises. It was me,
whether I believed it or not. I could
say, well, you know, they didn't do their
job or, you know, this department didn't do
their job. The customer will always think of

(34:41):
me. Of course. And that's what entrepreneurs do.
Like, Jeb Blunt's name is on this business.
A %.
If if he doesn't
perform well
for customers and they don't appreciate what he's
done, it reflects poorly on him. And I
think salespeople need to take need to understand
that, if you're gonna be successful in sales,

(35:01):
that's the mindset you need to have. You
know, you take care of your customer, like,
like, the business you work for is yours.
A %. It's about the standards. Right? Where's
your standards? I'm I'm back at HQ here
in Georgia for the second time. I've flown
around the world to video some content. Now
I I can do that at home in
my studio, but Jeb Riley said, no. No.
We want exceptional

(35:22):
quality, and we built an incredible studio. You've
I mean, I've never seen it like it
here. He only wants exceptional. And he knows
if I'm here with his exceptional team, it
will be exceptional. Right? And I get it.
I respect that. It's standards, and I have
the same with my team. And, you know,
for me, it's it's how do they show
up. Right? How do they show up? Is
their car clean? They don't think like that.

(35:43):
But for me, if your car's dirty, what
are you saying to the prospect that you
don't care? If your shirt's hanging out, why
didn't you take any pride in that? That's
important. Right? You are who they're buying as
well as the product service, the business. So
you've got to show up how you want
your customers to for you to show up.
And it's sometimes it's small tweaks. You know,
what we're talking about can sound, you know,
where if your car is dirty, you know,

(36:03):
people are saying, well,
you know, my car is not dirty, Tony.
My, you know, my my hair looks fine,
Tony. You know, like, they're not they're not
dirty by any means. They're they're totally fine,
and they're mediocre or or medium or they're
doing well.
But what we're saying is the devil is
in the details. Correct. Right? When I was,
and I I this is gonna be arrogant,

(36:24):
and I'm okay with that. When I was
in the field as a as a business
sales rep selling to small business, like, these
are, like, restaurants. These are little offices, little
doctors' offices.
And, you know, there's a lot of my
team that show up in a polo shirt
and, you know, maybe some khakis and and
and tennis shoes, and, you know, that's what
they did. And that's that's totally fine. There's
nothing necessarily wrong with that. Yep. I showed

(36:45):
up in a suit Yep. And slacks and
nice shoes because in my mind, if I
showed up to your business trying to sell
my services Yep. That are a commodity, I
mean, truly a commodity. But I mean, you
you would see that I mean business. Yes.
Correct. You've taken this seriously. Exactly. I agree.
And that's not arrogant at all. I think
I I applaud you and I think you're
good on you for doing it. Right? I
think it's about how much do you care.

(37:07):
Right? We it's for me, it's just pride
in everything you do. If you you never
wanna
overpromise and underdeliver. Right? It's always got the
opposite. Underpromise, overdeliver. Right? So that's the way
around. And you should be doing it every
way. And and you and I know this,
that the best business is referred business because
they sell you to their network. Right? Exactly.

(37:28):
You're gonna convert eight times better. And the
other beauty is you never ever move on
your price. Because if they're you know, they
refer you to their best friend, your best
friend said, gee, a hundred thousand pounds for
that? Like, yeah. Is there any movement? That's
what your best friend paid. I'd be insulting
him if I did something different to you.
So you convert better at the right price.
Why wouldn't you look after that client like

(37:50):
they're a VIP?
And every client should be a VIP where
they spend $10 with you or $200
because you don't know where they're going and
you don't know who they know. Because everyone
you meet knows someone you haven't. I think
it's a really important lesson to think about.
This may,
offend some folks, but we live in, a
sort of a society where,

(38:11):
it's it's just been kind of and and
I'm I'm,
fairly young.
It's sort of been beaten into me that,
you know, you should be who you are,
and other people should accept who you are.
And I think that in sales,
you know, one of the
one of the challenges I see with the
younger sales folks is this particular challenge is,
okay, I get that. You should be who

(38:32):
you are and accept yourself,
but also understand that perception is reality.
And,
I you know, I've shown up on calls
and I've been sold to by people who
are, you know, my age or a little
bit older or a little bit younger, and
they have a hoodie on. It doesn't look
like they're taking it very seriously, and they're
not taking me very seriously.
Whether whether I show up, you know, with
my hair in a mess or not, like,

(38:52):
you should show up, like, you're gonna take
this seriously. Correct. And that's changed the
the way that conversations have gone. Even with
CEOs
or c suite level,
if I showed up, not in a suit
and tie, but even if I showed up,
like, looking like this,
to these calls,
though I was
looked different than a c suite person Yep.

(39:12):
They they at least gave me the room.
Yeah. To Yeah. To prove that I belong
in the room. They gave you that time.
I think something people should be doing, something
like I recommend for my clients is check
first.
Say to your clients that really looking for
a meeting, you just you know, it's a
question I always like to ask. What, you
know, what's the dress code where you are?
Because if they say t shirt and shorts,

(39:32):
they say, okay. Well, I'll just and then
you know you come in a shirt and
chinos or a t shirt smart t shirt
and chinos. Because if sometimes the problem is
if you turn up in a suit, shirt,
tie, and they're in t shirt shorts, you
know, they're like, this guy doesn't get us.
So it's the other way around sometimes, you
know? Yeah. So an easy way is number
one, ask. But number two, go on their
website. See how they're all dressed and look

(39:54):
at their social, their their business social, and
you can sort of get an idea. If
they're so dressed down, you get an idea.
Right? I'd always rather be smarter, but I
don't wanna be too smart if they're not.
And they're like, he's too stuffy for us.
Right. A tuxedo is not gonna do it.
Probably not. Probably not. Yeah. So,
It does for James Bond. It does for
James Bond. He yeah. That's that's that's fair.

(40:15):
I I I wonder,
you know, in your experience with with sales
organizations and what you observe Yeah. Where do
you think
sales culture is is heading in the next
twenty years or so? And what are what
are your opinions on kind of the the
new age of,
of of AI and and and what was
going on? This is a big question I'm

(40:36):
asking everybody. Of course. It's important.
I think it's two things. One, I'm actually
quite worried. I'm worried in terms of the
youth getting into sales. My son's 16. I
adore the granny walks on. He's very annoying,
but I adore the granny walks on. But
he's
he's typical of other 16 year olds. I
say he thinks everything should be served on
a plate. And, ultimately, they've got the order
taker mindset. Right? A good salesperson is never

(40:58):
an order taker. They're an order maker. Even
if business is landing on their lap, where
can we embrace that and actually get more
out of it? I call it squeeze the
lemon. Right? Who do they know? What's the
other size of the business? Who's their client's
Who's their suppliers, etcetera. So I think that's
the first thing. My theory is they're coming
in expecting, and that's wrong. I think the
second thing is AI. So, look, there's so

(41:20):
much debate. I see it in a positive
lens. I see it I can works more
efficient. I can streamline. I can be more
productive.
I see all the positives. Now you can
argue that they don't need salespeople because they're
gonna have the best bots out there that
can think on their feet, show empathy, etcetera.
It might be the case, and then you're
screwed. Right? Go get another job. But, look,

(41:43):
will an AI ever replace a human
who no one can tell you? Right? No
one can tell you. And I think if
it does, okay. And then it's about right.
How do we pivot? You know, who'd have
known three years ago that I can never
stand on stage and deliver a a talk?
That and I'd have been like, are you
crazy? But that happens. Right? Your dad, Jeb

(42:03):
senior, was a genius because he he saw
that. Maybe he'd been watching too much Simpsons,
but he saw that future, and he had
it ready. Right? He was he was
five steps ahead. Right? He he was ready
for it. But when it happened to me,
I saw again, COVID is a great positive
because that's why I built my digital content.
That's why I'm here right now. Had that
not have happened, I've never met Jeb senior.

(42:24):
He wouldn't have gone, I like your content.
It wouldn't have happened. So I think with
AI, whatever happens,
take the positive out of it. That's my
opinion. I like that. I mean, the the
first point, and I I'm I'm I'm the
oldest Gen z. So I'm the very first,
year of that delineation of '97 or whatever
it is. I struggle with this culturally as
the expectation, and I, you know, I freely

(42:46):
admit this, and it's a battle. I think
that if you are a leader,
or if you're in my position and you
are looking to be a leader in the
future, combat this.
When people come into your organization
and they're expecting,
don't reward it. And and also be aware
that you're gonna probably have to kiss a
few toads before you get fingerprints. Right? Like,
it's it's going to take a it may

(43:07):
be harder to find the right salesperson
Correct. Than it was twenty five years ago.
And I think the final point on that,
right, to to wrap it up is actually
the AI is gonna be just another excuse
for people. Right? I hear it the whole
time of the leads are crap. I'm like,
the leads are crap. You're crap. Right? Coffee
is for club. But it's true. It goes
back to 1980.
Right? ABC. Yes. Always be closing should be,

(43:29):
but now it's always be curious in my
opinion.
However, it's easy to blame stuff. And the
second they go, it's not me, it's always
you. So take the positive
out of AI, but also know it's gonna
change things and get ready. Adapt. Because a
great salesperson is someone who's agile, you know,
wanna learn. I I think what will change,
just my opinion on this, is that commodity

(43:50):
selling,
is maybe in trouble.
But if, you know, if you're a good
salesperson,
and and you're in those fields, you know,
look for opportunities in some complex sales Correct.
Organizations
Correct. You know, and and selling things that
are a bit different than what you're currently
used to and and go that direction. The
AI is gonna be a telephone Amazon. Simple
as that. It'll be a telephone Amazon. It'll

(44:10):
make some clever recommendations based on algorithms.
That's probably where it's going in the next
year. Who knows where it goes from there?
Who knows? You know? And and and that's
that's the important thing to remember is it's
a train that we're all on, and we
have no idea where it's going. And frankly,
I'm not smart enough to to drive the
train. So You need it, my friend. I
get lost. I'm at the wrong station.
So I'm with you. Tony, you're you're awesome.
Thank you so much for being on the

(44:31):
Sales Gravy Podcast and coming to the Sales
Gravy headquarters.
Just, as a quick before we end, if
you're a Sales Gravy fan, and you have
content and and you are in this space,
come to the Sales Gravy Studios. We would
love to have you as as a content
contributor.
Tony, before we let you go, one, we
can find you on Sales Gravy University, but
where else can people find Toni Morris? LinkedIn's

(44:52):
probably the best. I'm very I'm very vocal
there. But otherwise, just literally reach out to
them. I love speaking to salespeople, helping them.
So [e-mail].
Ping me an email. Go on my socials.
However they wanna find me. And pick up
coffees for closers. Definitely pick up coffees for
closers. And what are your other titles of
your books so so we we can So
to be honest, you, the the there's three
or four, but I'm actually most proud of

(45:14):
coffees for closers, and I'm now doing another
one, ask better questions, get better results. I'm
gonna be doing that potentially with Jeb senior.
So coming soon. Coming soon. Thank you so
much for being here, and thank y'all for
listening to the Sales Recovery Podcast. We will
see you next time.