Beyond the Bottle: Finding Freedom in Midlife SUMMER REBOOT - Episode 276 - Sandy K Nutrition - Health & Lifestyle Queen

Episode Transcript
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Sandy Kruse (00:02):
Hi everyone, it's me Sandy Kruse of Sandy K
Nutrition, health and LifestyleQueen.
For years now, I've beenbringing to you conversations
about wellness from incredibleguests from all over the world.
Discover a fresh take onhealthy living for midlife and

(00:26):
beyond, one that embracesbalance and reason, without
letting only science dictateevery aspect of our wellness.
Join me and my guests as weexplore ways that we can age
gracefully, with in-depthconversations about the thyroid,

(00:49):
about hormones and otheralternative wellness options for
you and your family.
True wellness nurtures ahealthy body, mind, spirit and
soul, and we cover all of theseessential aspects to help you
live a balanced, joyful life.

(01:10):
Be sure to follow my show, rateit, review it and share it.
Always remember my friendsbalanced living works.
Remember my friends balancedliving works.
Hi everyone, welcome to Sandy KNutrition, health and Lifestyle

(01:31):
Queen.
I almost didn't say my name,right, it's got to be summer
soon.
This is the first episode of mysummer reboot series.
I decided to do this and I dothis every year, so in the fall,
I will be going into my fifthseason and entering into my

(01:53):
sixth year of Sandy K Nutrition,health and Lifestyle Queen, and
I'm really excited because I'mstill here and most of you know
I've really become big onintegrity.

(02:14):
This has been a big thing forme lately.
Oh, by the way, this first ofmy summer reboot series I should
introduce her again.
It is the lovely and beautifulJenn Kautsch of Sober Sis.
I thought this was a verypopular episode last year.

(02:34):
I released this just beforeChristmas and really it's all
about sober living and women andalcohol and all the things, and
I thought, okay, we're enteringinto the summer season and even
though most of you who listento my podcast are over the age
of 50 or in your forties atleast you know, you're kind of

(02:58):
slowing down on the boozing Atleast a lot of the people who
follow me are, or they don'tbooze at all.
And so this isn't a podcast tojudge or anything like that.
It's really just to plant aseed, and I love that.
Actually, it's to plant a seedbecause as we age, things change

(03:22):
.
We're not 20 anymore.
I mean, I think our hangoversare way worse now.
So this conversation was so, sopopular before Christmas last
year that I decided to make itthe first to introduce my summer
reboot series.
Now I can't even remember whereI was at, but oh yeah, I was
talking about integrity I was at, but oh yeah, I was talking

(03:43):
about integrity.
So I have really been on this,I guess, journey where I've been
around for a while now.
So I graduated nutritioncollege in 2019, but while I was
still in college, I started mysocial media.

(04:04):
So it's been about eight yearsor so and it was really more
around food as medicine and thatsort of thing.
And then I moved intofunctional nutrition and
functional health and I startedmy podcast and really my entire
premise, my friends, is to justgive you options.

(04:26):
I'm not telling you how thingsare.
I'm not claiming to be anexpert in you, because nobody is
.
The only one who's an expert inyou is you, and over the last
few years, I've seen a lot ofcorruption.
I've been approached by thesepay-to to play companies.
I do no promotion.

(04:48):
The only promotion I do is myown stuff on my social media,
which I do myself.
But what's happened is we livein this world of pay to play.
Now, everybody's an influencer,everybody needs to make money,
everybody has a discount code.
Anyway, I actually had thefortune of being on a podcast a

(05:13):
few podcasts and I have talkedabout this, and I'm talking
about it more because I thinkit's really important for you as
a listener and somebody who'sreally taking your health in
your own hands and understandingyour health, that you pay
attention to who you'relistening to.
Hey, I've done it too.

(05:33):
You know, there's all thesepeople that are like larger than
life personalities that speakon stage.
Now that are these wellnessinfluencers and you go okay,
well, she's always giving out acode.
Is she using all that stuff?
I can tell you from insiderscoop that they don't use all

(05:56):
this stuff and a lot of timesthat affiliate money is just
good money, especially whenyou're speaking of volume.
So I'm not here to call peopleout personally as a
whistleblower, but I'm kind ofhere as a whistleblower to call
out the industry overall,because there's nothing wrong

(06:18):
with making money from somethingthat you're working on and
researching and promoting.
There's nothing wrong with that.
The problem is is thateverybody seems to be promoting
everything these days and it'simpossible to be using
everything right.
And then the other problemactually I'm going to throw it

(06:38):
right back to the listener, thewatcher, the person who's
absorbing all of it.
The listener, the watcher, theperson who's absorbing all of it
Well, you yourself have to takeaccountability.
Do I really want to listen tothis guy.
He just seems to be full ofhimself and full of ego and just
wants to make a shit ton ofmoney.
That's the facts.

(07:04):
So the wellness industry thatused to be very holistic
alternative health, functionalhealth has really kind of.
I'm going to say it's just adifferent leg of general health
industry where, you know, cashis king and so who can you rely
on?
And I've actually had thisquestion raised to me personally

(07:27):
and I'm like you.
We are okay.
I know this is kind of gettinginto the whole woo-woo stuff,
but I love that shit.
Give me all of it, I just loveit all.
But we have entered the age ofAquarius, as they say.
We were in Capricorn for a very, very long time.

(07:47):
Structure rules, you know,expert leader, you know, and I
do believe, as a person who isextremely intuitive, that's
really.
I am very much so and I thinkwe all are.
I think a lot of us just turnit off.

(08:08):
But as that person, I am seeingthat more people are seeing
fault with the system.
So, people who claim to beexperts, well, you know, I'm not
saying that all your educationand all your years of practice

(08:31):
don't mean anything.
That's not what I'm saying, butyou know you're not an expert
in me.
That's what I am going to say,and so that's where it all kind
of goes back to you as thelistener to go.
Hmm, does this resonate with me?
Does this make sense for me, inmy personal situation, in my

(08:52):
body?
So these are the things that weall got to put it all back to
ourselves, and I think that'sthe most important point here,
because here we are.
We can't control what all thesepeople are doing and they're
just paying to be on stage andpaying to be on this podcast and

(09:12):
paying to be called an experthere.
Well, fuck, like who do youtrust?
Like nobody.
You trust yourself.
And if there's any message thatI'm going to give, that will be
the message.
We all have to turn inwards, asopposed to this world of social

(09:32):
media where everything isexternal.
I'm going to get thisinformation from this person,
this information and, by the way, I am going to put a little
note, a little caveat here we doget a lot of information and
people do work hard.
So I'm going to ask you to doone favor and that is to give
back by providing this freecontent for you, by sharing it

(09:56):
with a friend.
However you wish to share it,share it on Instagram.
Tag me Sandy K NutritionInstagram.
Tag me Sandy K Nutrition.
Facebook.
Tag me Sandy K Nutrition.
Send it to a friend throughiMessage, whatever it is.
If you share this episode withsomebody, that's like saying
thank you to me for providingthis content for you, and it

(10:19):
goes so so far, you guys.
So so far, you guys.
That's how I've achieved 1.4million downloads.
Okay, I used to use a podcastpromoter way back in the
beginning, and then I'm like Idon't know, like I don't know if
I trust these guys.

(10:39):
I don't know where they'repromoting this podcast.
Like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
And so I pulled it all back tomyself and I'm like I don't know
, I don't know, I don't know.
And so I pulled it all back tomyself and I'm like I trust
myself.
And so that's what I'm going toask of you as it relates to
health trust yourself.
Sure, listen to these so-calledexperts and then decide if it
resonates.
But, yes, always give back.
Always give back my friends.

(10:59):
So if you do that for me, thathelps a great deal.
Follow me on Instagram,facebook, tiktok.
It's Sandy K Nutritioneverywhere.
I've been around a while now,guys.
I'm also a writer.
I've also released my essentialthyroid guide.
Most of you know the wholething kind of began well.
It began with my daughter beingunwell in 2010, but then I had

(11:24):
thyroid cancer in 2011.
So I wrote the essentialthyroid guide.
This is totally not clinical,you guys, and some of the
reviews are like oh, I wasexpecting clinical.
I'm like I very, very clearlyindicate it's not clinical.
It's for those of you who justwant a little bit more insight

(11:44):
to understand this reallyimportant little gland that I do
not have and I'm dealing withmenopause and no thyroid gland.
And yes, they are connected.
It's part of this beautifulendocrine system.
So I am there on Amazon, I amkind of everywhere, and so if
you follow me, it really justengage with my content.

(12:06):
It goes so far, my friends.
And then I'm also a writer onSubstack.
I'm also a writer on mediumcom.
Just look for Sandy KruseS-A-N-D-Y, k-r-u-s-e on Substack
or on Medium or anywhere elsethat you do social media.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

(12:26):
I love you guys.
I really appreciate you.
You're why I do everything,because, as you noticed, I don't
even have any sponsors, becauseit's very hard to find
companies who want to alignlong-term.
They all want to just droptheir marketing dollars unspread
themselves.
Then, anyway, all want to justdrop their marketing dollars
unspread themselves.
Then, anyway, I am rambling, Iam on fire today.

(12:48):
I love you guys, enjoy, enjoythe summer, enjoy your family
and your friends.
Lots of love to you.

(13:09):
.
Jenn is passionate about makingit safe for women to have a
conversation about alcoholwithout judgment, labels or
rules.
She is a retired gray areadrinker.
Around mid-40, she was tired,stuck on autopilot.
Around mid-40, she was tired,stuck on autopilot and ready for
a change.
Years ago she created the21-Day Reset Challenge and has

(13:31):
now had over 30,000 women fromall over the world participate.
And today we will be discussingsober living facts around
alcohol for women and optionsfor a healthier path to aging.

(13:53):
And I always like to bring inthe aging aspect because most of
my listeners are in theirmidlife or a little bit older.
Technically, I guess I'm goingto be 55 in January, so I would
be past midlife.
Because I think, what is it?
I think around 40 is midlife.
So it's kind of like I'm likeno, no, no, I'm still midlife, I

(14:15):
still classify myself asmidlife.
So there, let's leave it atthat, right, jen?
But I am really excited forthis conversation.
I had a show on sober livinglast year and it was really
popular, and now I am so excitedto welcome you, jen.

(14:36):
Thank you so much for comingtoday.

Jenn Kautsch (14:39):
I am excited, sandy, we're going to get into
it and I thank you for having me.
It's going to be a goodconversation.

I think so because I love how you really I don't
know if present yourself as theright way, but I love how you
are very welcoming to all women,without judgment in this area,
because there is a lot ofjudgment around alcohol.

(15:10):
So I have to ask you about whatinspired you to start this.
I know I mentioned it a littlebit, but I always love to ask my
guests a little bit more detailon their story.

Yeah, yeah, well, thank you again for having me
and I'm right there with y'allin the midlife or beyond.
Yeah, I'm 53, married with twoadult kids and, like Sandy said,
I am a retired gray areadrinker and we can define that a
little bit more today of whatthat even means.
But yeah, this whole midlifepassion of mine of helping women

(15:50):
really look at theirrelationship with alcohol
without having to have a labelor all the shame or stigma or
stereotypes that can go withdrinking, because, let's face it
y'all, we live in such analcohol centric society but yet
it's still this stereotyped,often misunderstood habit that

(16:14):
can form, that can really turninto a full blown addiction and
there's a full drinking spectrum.
And I didn't know any of that.
I just thought I just needed touse more willpower, get it
together, you know, pop myselfout of that detox to retox loop
and what I realized was I wasn'tbroken.

(16:34):
Actually not at all.
My pattern was broken andbecause it was a lot to do with
the science and how our brainworks and just the habit loop
and our beliefs.
Once I started unpacking that Iwas on the road to freedom and
it wasn't that long that I wasexperiencing my own freedom that

(16:55):
I honestly thought to myself.
Gosh, there must be other womenlike me who feel this way, who
are not going to necessarilyresonate with a 12-step program
or kind of the end of the linementality of black and white,
all or nothing drinking, and soI set out to create what I

(17:16):
wished I could have found.

Hmm, I love that.
So it's really a passion foryou, because you saw that you
needed a change.
And then you know you said theword shame, and I just have to
mention this because I'vewritten about shame and one of
my quotes is shame dulls yourshine, and when women feel a lot

(17:47):
of shame behind whatever it istheir history, what they're
doing behind closed doors, Ithink that shame doesn't set us
up for success either when youfeel that.
So that's why I love what youdo.

Yeah, because you know, let's, let's.
Let's start there, because Iwould say when I was stuck in
this drinking cycle, I reallyhad more of a thinking problem
than a drinking problem, but Icouldn't discern the between the
two.
All I did was feel bad.
I felt bad about myself becauseI wasn't living in alignment

(18:27):
with my true self.
I was really living a verydivided life One girl by day,
super healthy, mindful, get herdone, ultra responsible.
And then it was just my eveninghabits, my drinking.
That was just kind of like I'mgoing to open a bottle and have
a glass while I'm cooking.
Did I really have just a glass?

(18:48):
Usually, no, not most of thetime, because you know the
bottle's open, you might as welljust sip it on down.
And what I noticed to yourpoint was the more I felt
misaligned and divided, the moreshame crept into my life and I
started playing very small.
My world started to get smalleras I began to feel less worthy,

(19:14):
less confident about myself.
I was breaking promises tomyself.
I was literally eroding my ownresilience by breaking promises
to myself.
So all of this was like a hugeshame storm inside.
All the meanwhile I'm liketotally saving face out there
because my drinking looked likeeverybody else.
It looked like other friendsaround me.

(19:37):
So it's not like I stood outwith my drinking habits.
Externally, I didn't have a bigrock bottom.
I didn't lose anything.
I wasn't really getting calledout for my drinking habits.
Externally, I didn't have a bigrock bottom.
I didn't lose anything.
I wasn't really getting calledout for my drinking.
It was something internallythat was going on.
And so part of my journey was,as you mentioned in my bio, is

(19:57):
in my mid-40s.
That's when I recognized I amjust in this loop and I'm
drinking more and enjoying itless.
Like what a ripoff.
This is not aligning in anypart of my life mind, body or
spirit.
And my daughter had justgraduated high school.
She was kind of getting toreinvent herself and I thought,

(20:19):
jen, this is kind of like yourchance.
This is your off ramp off thedrinking highway to maybe just
pull over, kind of pop the hood,see what's going on in there.
And you know, quite honestly, ina bigger picture, I wanted to
show up at 50, different than Idid 40.
And I knew for sure it was notgoing to be a weekend.

(20:39):
You know, juice cleanse.
I was going to do it.
I was going to have to dig alot deeper and I knew for me
really the lead domino would beif I could kind of get a handle
on my evening wine, o'clock andsocial habits around drinking
and my secret drinking, thedrinking that I didn't really

(21:00):
want anyone to see.
So I had all my little tricksof tricks of you know, cooking
and hiding it behind thecookbook, not because I was
literally hiding it, but I alsowasn't putting it out there to
be counted, if you know what Imean, and I know you're.
some of your listeners knowexactly what I mean, because
they're hoping no one's reallypaying attention, because they
don't really want to payattention either.

(21:21):
And so I knew for me, if Icould get this drinking
relationship and I do call it arelationship, because it is like
having one I could get thatmore under control Didn't even
know fully what that would mean,Then maybe that would increase
more of my, you know, confidence, resilience, like do new things

(21:42):
.
Hello, sleep better, wake upwith more energy, ditch the
hangover.
The hangovers were worse, and Ididn't have one every day, but
I didn't need one every day toremember the ones that really
took me down to just not showingup my best self or, you know,
going to a later workout classbecause the early one was just a

(22:03):
little, a little too early.
And so, anyway, for me this,this whole drinking part of my
life, was a catalyst to get myshine back, to open it up to
everything else, because once Iknocked the drinking domino down
, all the other ones started tofall too.

You know, I do feel that at this stage in our lives
, as you know, let's callourselves midlife women.
We're just going to go we'regoing to roll with that, jen.
I think that a lot of timeswe're looking for something.

(22:48):
We're looking for what is ourpassion?
How are we going to live outthe rest of our lives?
Do we want to leave a mark onthis earth?
Do we want to leave a legacy?
You know, there's all thesethings, I think, come into play

(23:10):
for a lot of us who arelistening.
We have kids, and when thosekids are not tugging on your
skirt and your pant leg andneeding every second of your
time, I think it's our time togo.
Okay, who am I again?
Because it's almost like youkind of go through a little bit

(23:31):
of a blur when you have littlekids and they need you 24 by
seven and they're crawling inyour bed.
And I know not everybody haschildren, but I'm just speaking
from what I know.
And then when I do drinkalcohol and I do on occasion,

(23:53):
not very often I feel like allof those goals and all of those
things in my mind become hazyand blurry and I don't.
It's like I can't tap into thatreal part of myself that I want

(24:13):
to.

Yeah, yeah, totally.
There's nothing worse thanwalking around with this
internal mental tug of war orthese.
You know the word cognitivedissonance's kind of a more
popularized word now, where it'sjust talking about the, the
wanting two different things atthe same time.

(24:38):
It's like trying to chase tworabbits.
Well, you can't catch eitherone, and so you know, scripture
says you know, you can't servetwo masters.
So I really do think thatthat's true when you've got
different activities in yourlife that literally have
opposite outcomes and oppositegoals.

(25:00):
And you know again, it's lessabout right or wrong, good or
bad, it's more about is itserving us?
That is the better question.
In fact, for the longest time,sandy, I was asking myself the
wrong question which really keptme stuck in my drinking cycle

(25:21):
and other cycles for a long time, which is is it bad enough?
Like I kept looking around andseeing that I was, you know, a
similar drinker, maybe to myfriendship group or my husband
or just the world at large, andthat comparison trap actually
kept me stuck, because everytime I looked around and said,
is it bad enough?

(25:42):
Do I have to change?
The answer was no, because Icould always find someone who
was, you know, drinking more,having negative consequences
that were visible.
External.
That wasn't me.
So I think to your point.
A lot of this is what's goingon inside.

(26:03):
And I finally started askingmyself a better question, jen is
it good enough?
Is this good enough for me?
So it's less about is it badenough, it's really a question
is it good enough?
Is it good enough for whatyou're wanting to do?
Does it align with you?
Does it serve you and thepeople around you?

(26:23):
Are there any benefits to whatyou're doing?
And if there are no benefits towhat you're doing, why are we
doing it?
And I think that's where thereal clarity and focus got to
come.
You're doing, and if there areno benefits to what you're doing
, why are we doing it?
And I think that's where thereal clarity and focus got to
come in for me was I juststarted recognizing.
Oh, I've put a lot of valueinto my relationship with
alcohol.
I valued alcohol to take theedge off to, you know, be my

(26:48):
companion in loneliness, to makesomething boring, laborious,
like cooking dinner or being outwith people you don't know.
You know, make it more fun.
I'm more fun.
And it was almost like, youknow, I was bringing alcohol
into my life as the guest ofhonor Like, oh now, now we can

(27:09):
get the party started, now I canrelax.
And it was like no, I've beengiving alcohol way too much
power and value.
If I think alcohols can do allthat for me and I can't do that
for myself.

Oh, that's very powerful statement.
So the only for me a big waythat I can relate to what you're
saying is when I used to be asmoker.
It's like, okay, I quit in my30s, but I smoked for 20 years

(27:48):
and I quit smoking with mypregnancies, no problem, it was
easy because I was vomiting, sothat was easy.
And then I remember, with myfirst, I started smoking again
nine months after I'd stoppedbreastfeeding.
And I know this isn't aboutsmoking, but I'm just speaking

(28:11):
about how I relate.
So then, when I started again,it's like okay, the kids are
good, now I can sneak outsideand have my smoke, okay, and.
And so for me I'd be like, okay, well, now I'm going to cut
down, I'm going to cut down, andI'm going to cut down and I'm

(28:31):
only going to have fivecigarettes a day, because I got
all the way up to 15.
Right, right, and now I'm goingto cut down.
And then slowly I would creepback up.

Totally, they're very similar.

Right.
So like I can relate, justbecause the smoking oh my God, I
loved it so much.
And me and my girlfriends welaugh about it, we're like oh my
God, we love smoking.
But I know, for me I couldnever touch a cigarette again

(29:06):
personally because I loved itthat much, personally, because I
loved it that much and I knewhow many times I went down that
slippery slope over and over andover again.
So you know, maybe relate whatI mentioned kind of to alcohol,
because I know it's similar butnot the same.

Right, similar but not the same, but a lot of
times they go hand in hand.
A lot of people tend to smokewhen they drink or drink when
they smoke.
So these are two habits thatwell and two highly addictive
substances.
I mean nicotine and alcohol areboth addictive in and of
themselves.

(29:46):
So you've got that going on andthen when you attach a dopamine
hit to it, it becomes a reward,and then that's a different
part of your brain Totally alltogether where you're like I
want that reward.
It's very difficult to moderateor cut down on something that
is that rewarding, that givesyou that much of a um, what

(30:10):
seems like in the moment, atemporary value hit.
It's very hard to then attachthe anxiety or the restlessness
or the irritability to thewithdrawal of that reward.
And so that is really the Imean just to simplify, the

(30:30):
nature of an addictive substanceis it pulls you back in, like
alcohol.
It literally creates a thirstfor itself.
So when you're drinking, if youwant to keep that buzz on or
keep experiencing what youtypically experience with a
drink, you ultimately have todrink more.

(30:52):
And people, again, that have ahigh value, whether that's
emotional, social, mental youtake all that and you do it long
enough and it becomes physical.
But I would say most of thewomen I work with in my own
experience it was more mentaland emotional this tie that I
had.
So it was very hard to say I'monly going to.

(31:15):
You know, it's kind of likebreaking up with a toxic
relationship or you know there'sthat word again relationship.
It's like having an abusive,you know boyfriend that you only
see on Friday nights.
It's like does that really work?
In my case it was easier justto sever that relationship

(31:36):
altogether, but I didn't startout that way.
That wasn't my goal initially.
It was my secret desire, but Ididn't think I could do it.
I honestly did not think that Icould really pull it off and
maintain it with a spouse thatdrinks Again.
Just so much of my social life,my world had drinking all woven

(31:56):
throughout it, and so thethought of like never drinking
again is not where I started inmy mind, and that's that's why I
like to work with women in thegray area, because a lot of what
I coach about and teach andoffer is not about hey, join
Sober, sis, and never drinkagain, right out of the gate,

(32:19):
right at the door, like someprograms.
Do.
I mean if?
And again, I wouldn't ever bashany kind of other program or
recovery path that works forsomeone.
So I'm out here to say do whatworks for you, find what
resonates, find your people,find the message, the program
that works.
But for me it would not haveworked to go.

(32:41):
You know what?
I'm just kind of curious aboutmy relationship with drinking.
I really want to cut downSecretly.
I want to not want it, but thatseems like secretly.
I want to not want it, but thatseems like like I don't know if
that's possible, to not want it.
So I just need to take a breaklong enough from it to get more
clarity.
And and I think that's that'swhere I begin with people,

(33:02):
that's where I began in my ownjourney is more in a curious
stance, like just really curious, like huh, that so interesting.
I woke up with such goodintentions this morning Like for
sure I'm not drinking tonight.
Like I would wake up manymornings like hit the workout,
you know, have my prayermeditation time, have my you

(33:22):
know salad, you know green juicelunch.
I mean I was like ticking itdown, checking the boxes and
then about three o'clock in theafternoon, know, kind of low
blood sugar kind of get the bonkwhere it's like um and I myself
was not that great of a plannerwhen it came to like meal prep
and like it's getting close todinner time, so I would find

(33:43):
myself in a grocery store kindof right before I picked up the
kids from school, throwingtogether kind of a last minute.
You know what am I going tocook tonight.
Grab some ground beef, get theragu, get some spaghetti noodles
.
Oh, there's a bottle of redwine, always by the meat section
.
There's Prosecco by theblueberries.
I mean it's unbelievable, themarketing and messaging and the

(34:06):
association we make with, likeMexican food, margarita.
You know like there are so manyassociations, places.
You know places, people andthings.
It's very true.
And so, yeah, I would basicallywalk through the whole grocery
store and tell myself no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

(34:27):
and then get to the cash wrap,get to the checkout and decision
fatigue had set in.
You know, it's that time in theafternoon and all of my good
intentions from that morningliterally would, would fail me,
they would go away, and all thewillpower I'd used already all

(34:48):
day with my other healthychoices, and that's when I would
usually grab a bottle that Ididn't keep on hand at home
because, again.
I wasn't going to drink thatnight.
That was the goal.
And so I think it's veryimportant just to start out with
a lot of curiosity, compassionand realize, ladies, if you're
listening to me, we've beenduped.
I'm going to go ahead and sayit.
We've been tricked.

(35:08):
We've been duped by themarketing and messaging out
there that that there are healthbenefits, that it really
doesn't really hurt you that bad, it doesn't really matter.
In fact, you deserve it.
It's your reward.
If you've been, you know,momming all day or been in the
office, it's your ticket tofreedom and it's what you need

(35:29):
in a networking happy hour toyou know, get it done.
And really, what we're doing iswe're dulling our spark, our
shine, like you mentioned.
We're taking our edge off.
Yeah, we're losing our edge iswhat we're doing, and we are
outsourcing so much of our powerand so much of our sober mind
to this glamorized, encouragedelixir that is not doing us any

(35:56):
favors, especially as we age.

This is a great time to get into some of the
research.
Jen, it was a perfect seguebecause a lot exactly what you
said there's.
Oh well, you get yourresveratrol from red wine and
you get and it's like, well, no,I actually take resveratrol.
I actually take it personallyand I shouldn't.

(36:21):
I'm not going to tell you thatyou need to take it.
I take it because I havecertain genetics that it's
actually very beneficial.
Not everyone should take it,that's not what I'm saying, but
when you hear these things itgives you that excuse to go.
Oh well, you know it's good forme to do this.
So talk to us a little aboutthe research and I know you have

(36:44):
a lot as it relates to womenspecifically, and midlife women,
right, that's right, in fact,midlife women, if you're.

if you're watching this on video, you know, I just
put on my readers so that and Igot mine on, I got mine on, I
got a signal that we are nowlooking down at small things,
it's true, and, and a lot ofthese.
You know I'm I'm not trying tobe a Debbie Downer it's true,
and a lot of these.
You know I'm not trying to be aDebbie Downer, I'm not trying
to bring in just a list of badnews.

(37:15):
It's just things to considerbecause we don't hear about it
in the marketing and messaging.
We don't see about it.
We don't hear about what I'mabout to say on the tea towels
and the wine memes and all allthe jokes, memes and all all the
jokes.
So, if anything, consider thisa balance to counteract what it

(37:36):
is you are used to hearing.
Which is rosé all day.
Girl, oh yeah, you've had ahard day, let's get together for
drinks.
Oh oh, you need, you need aglass of wine, or or it's a
celebration, we've got to invitealcohol.
It's a must, you know.
So, if anything, consider thisa counteractive measure.
And what I'm about to say, theseare negative consequences of

(37:59):
drinking alcohol, which are it'sbasically ethanol, alcohol is
ethanol and when you considerthat ethanol has been, you know,
given fruity flavors, lots ofsugar things to kind of mask
what it is, at the end of theday.
It's ethanol for your body, andso it is now a proven, known

(38:24):
scientific fact that there areno benefits to drinking any
amount of alcohol.
The World Health Association,the American Heart Association,
have come out and said actuallythere are no benefits.
So you've got to know and,again, make an educated,
empowered choice.
When you're drinking alcohol,you are drinking a toxin, you

(38:48):
just are.
It's a carcinogen.
It is a known.
There are known tie-ins tocancer which, again, no one
wants to hear.
Because when you're out theredrinking you're thinking you're
decreasing your anxiety, becauseyou're chilling out and you're
taking the edge off.
But really what we're doing iswe're pouring gasoline on

(39:08):
anxiety, on inflammation and onother things.
So what I'm about to say reallyapplies to any age.
But I will say take everythingI'm saying and you know, 10x it
for every decade that you've goton this earth.
Because as we age, for example,our bodies lose water volume.

(39:30):
That's something that happensin our body.
So as a result, we are lessable to dilute alcohol in our
systems.
So that's an age thing.
Women already have less of theenzyme that metabolizes alcohol.
So if you're going out with yourguy and you're trying to keep

(39:51):
up, drink for drink because hehad one.
You have one, he ordered one,you're gonna order one.
You go to another place.
He got one, you got one.
It is not landing the sameinside your body as it is for
him.
So, uh, you know, we know thatalcohol is damaging on a
cellular level.
It crosses that that bloodbrain barrier, it goes into

(40:17):
every.
Alcohol is one of the few, fewdrug substances that can go
everywhere in your body, so it'snot just affecting one part.
You know we think of our liver.
Oh, the poor liver.
You know we've drank too much.
Our poor liver, know, no, yourpoor body, because a lot of your
, a lot of your, all of yoursystems are affected to the

(40:40):
point that oftentimes you'reunable to absorb nutrients
properly.
That's why, when you'redrinking a lot, you're actually
it's not an even exchange.
I used to do this all the time,sandy.
I would say I would go out todinner with my husband.
Let me just paint like, let meget real again with like a story
.
So I would go out to dinnerwith my husband and we would go

(41:01):
like let's get a steak dinner.
We're meat eaters.
I'm down here in Texas, so meateater.

Me too.
I am too eater.
Me too, I am too.
I'm a meat eater.
Listen, I love a good steak andI'm I'm Croatian.

I grew up like seeing, like pig's feet and
things like that in stews.
So I'm all good, we'll go outand get a steak dinner.
Well, I don't know about y'all,but I have an association with
steak.
That you drink red wine Likethat, don't?
They go hand in hand, that'sthat.
That's what I saw.
So I didn't realize that while Iwas eating this big, hearty
steak dinner with mashedpotatoes and all these calories

(41:40):
and all these, all this protein,all this good stuff and
drinking a glass or two of youknow, my red cab, my body was
actually halting metabolism andburning through what it was I
was eating until after it burnedthrough what I was drinking.

(42:00):
And that was a wake-up call,especially when, after a big
steak dinner and I've had aglass again or two, because then
we might get there and have anappetizer, go to the bar first.
Again, the very social thing.
Maybe I would have just alittle bit more, because again
the alcohol itself is sayinghave more, have more of me,

(42:23):
because this feels really goodin the moment and, um, you know,
some people have a better offswitch than others.
Mine tend to break sometimes.

And I know you've got a listener out there who's
like she just said, her offswitch didn't work.

Mine didn't work real well either.
Now I could, I could jiggle it,I could make it work, I could,
I could stop.
In fact, I could stop drinkinganytime I wanted.
But oh, one more, come on, itcan't hurt.
I didn't drive here, my husbanddrove.
You know, whatever I worked outtoday, in fact, I would

(43:00):
oftentimes have maybe one moreor a little port or a little
dessert drink so I could drinkmy calories.
In fact, that would be my cutelittle answer Can I just drink
my calories and I would havemore.

I wanted to ask you about that, jen.
Is there any research about,because I've seen this, where
women will drink instead ofeating, totally a thing.
It's a thing, right, becauseI've seen it and you know I I

(43:33):
mean, I remember being youngerand saying oh yeah, you know,
you get a buzz much faster,right, so you don't have to
spend as much money drinking atthe bar.
It was logical.
However, to me, like now at myage, I'm like oh my God, like
isn't that dangerous?
Like don't you need to have alittle bit of a base?
And I'll be like you know, yougot to eat something before.

(43:53):
And I say that to my kids.
I'm like make sure you eatsomething before you drink.
So is there any research aroundthis?
I've always wondered.

Well, I mean definitely, definitely, the
research is first off.
Yeah, I mean, mean, if you arechoosing to drink, I would
definitely um do that withsomething in your system to to
help absorb, um, some of whatyou're putting in there, because
again, it's going to shootacross, um, you know your

(44:25):
different, your differentreceptors, your different parts
of your body very quickly and so, um, yeah, I, I've done that.
I've worked with a lot of womenwho've done that.
They're too tired when they gethome.
You know the wine's calling.
In fact, I've worked with a lotof women that have done you
know, weight watchers, or myfitness pal or all the different
apps out there where there'spoints and you can actually, if

(44:48):
you look at it, well, I'm justgoing to use my points for wine
instead of my points for dessertor my points for a meal.
It's not the same, these pointsare not equal to your body.
It's not food.
It is not food.
And I don't know how many timesI had focused on maybe more

(45:11):
what I was drinking and thenwhat I was eating as the side,
like cheese and crackers, like alittle charcuterie tray, but
like the main thing was and Ididn't consciously think this
while I was doing it, but forsure it's exactly what was
happening the main thing waswhat I was drinking and
everything else was kind of aside.

And just one point.
I do want to make this as justas a nutritionist.
Yeah, yeah, at our age, just tobe able to assimilate and use
our nutrients that we do take in, it gets a little bit more
difficult.
You know, maybe our stomachacid is not optimized, maybe our

(45:57):
hormones are off and maybe ourmetabolism has slowed down.
So there's many factors there'salready a lot going on.

So when you're in your kitchen just kind of
mindlessly sipping andmindlessly snacking, it's really
doing a number on all levels.
And that was me oftentimes,especially if the kids had
sports or my husband was out oftown.
It was kind of lazy on my partbecause I thought, you know, had
sports or my husband was out oftown.
It was kind of lazy on my partbecause I thought, oh, I'll just

(46:28):
pour a drink and have somecheese and crackers.
It wasn't.
It wasn't, um, like, oh, I'mgoing to try to, you know, get
drunk or, you know, take my mindout of, out of reality.
It was, it was more of amindlessness and I think that
that's.
That's part of the biggest partof my message is mindfulness,

(46:49):
sober-mindedness, being awake,alert, aware in our own lives.
This living on autopilot iscrushing us ladies because we're
just.
We do get in that habit loop.
What started to me as a realtreat, a real pleasantry, a real
book club, you know, date nightturned into Tuesday night while

(47:11):
I'm cooking and the kids aredoing homework.
My brain didn't understand thedifference, it just wanted the
reward and I felt well, ifanything, I need a reward for
sure on a boring old Tuesdaynight with not much going on, on
a boring old Tuesday night withnot much going on, and so it's
just really easy to slip intothat mindless sipping, mindless
eating, and then, before youknow it, you're like dadgummit.

(47:32):
I did it again, dang.
It's like 10 PM, I'm eating,you know, chips and queso.
What's happening?

I would never do that if I were mindful or in my
sober mind at 10 pm for manyreasons.
And then add to it, you know,you replaced maybe the wine and
the cheese and crackers withwhat could have been a really
healthy, nutrient-dense meal,which is what we all know we
need more of right now.

So well, it's something that would have been
more life giving.
You know, I talked so muchabout this and sober says and in
life it's so true.
I think oftentimes, when we getin this mindless autopilot just
searching for rewards for justlife being lifey, what we end up
doing is we sacrifice the restthat we need the mental rest,

(48:30):
the emotional rest, the physicalrest, the rest for our souls.
We exchange it in light of justquick relief.
It's just like relief is sotemporary and it's such instant
gratification.
It's just like relief is sotemporary and it's such instant
gratification and we live all ofus, myself included in such a
society that just says you justdeserve it, just go for it.

(48:58):
I mean, you know YOLO, rememberwhen our kids used to say that
you only live once.
So there's just kind of this,you know, when we opt for just
quick relief versus realrestorative rest, restorative
eating, things that replenishand restore us, versus just
deplete us more, becauseactually that's what alcohol is
doing.

(49:18):
When you're tired, when you'restressed, when you're bored,
when you're lonely, when you'reoverwhelmed, women tend to drink
more for emotional reasons thanmen.
Men tend to drink more foremotional reasons than men.
Men tend to drink for moresocial reasons than women,
believe it or not.
Now I say we all drink for allof those reasons, but that's a
real distinguish thing is that,yeah, women tend to drink due to

(49:40):
emotional triggers, whereas mentypically drink more for
positive social reinforcement.
So it's like we're watchingfootball with the guys got to
get a beer.
For women, it's like, well, wewant the champagne or the mimosa
too at the baby shower, whichis a whole topic in and of
itself.
Having mimosas at a baby showerwith the prego that can't drink

(50:02):
one with you, shower with theprego that can't drink one with
you the star society today, um,but yeah, it's, it's crazy.
So I I think, I think it'salmost reverse engineering what
we're doing, reversing it backto what do we really want?
What do we really need?
Do we really need quick reliefthat's gonna, um, take from us

(50:26):
days later?
I mean, when you drink this isjust a scientific factoid when
you drink alcohol and theeffects of that alcohol, from a
physiological perspective, takeyou out of that homeostasis for
about seven to 10 days, wow,yeah, let that sink in in y'all,

(50:48):
because I did not know thateither.
That's why I think the scienceis so important.
When you drink on a Fridaynight, your cortisol is still
higher on a Monday than it wouldhave been otherwise.
So there is and again, I'm nota scientist, I'm not a
nutritionist, but I do know fromall of my research and my own
experience what I've read thatmy anxiety increased for days

(51:13):
after drinking, not just thenext morning Days, because it's
still getting out of your system, and that's why I think so many
women who have such goodintentions.
Again, my heart is for you.
It is out of compassion thatI'm sharing these things,
because I myself was really justin the dark on this stuff.

(51:36):
I didn't know.
I thought I was just aweak-willed person that needed
to try harder, get it together,apply everything that I was
applying to my disciplines byday to be more disciplined by
night, and I couldn't do it withthis.
Willpower did not work.
Deprivation mindset did notwork.
A bunch of rules broke updidn't work.

(51:56):
Shaming myself didn't work, andthose were all of the things
that I had tried on repeat forabout five years while I was
trying to change this habit onmy own, in isolation, and it
just, it just didn't take meanywhere.
And so I think when women knowmore, it's empowering, but when

(52:17):
we do something with it.
It's transformational, it'struly life change.
And so I want you to know ifyou're listening and you're like
man, she's reading my mailthere is great hope, there is a
way out of this cycle.
But you do have to really goback to your why, your W-H-Y,
you know.
Why do you want to change,reverse, engineer it back?

(52:39):
What are you doing?
Is it really serving you?
Is it working?
Is it actually working?
Are you taking the edge off orare you down and out for the
next two days in a subtle way.
That's just not your best life.
You're still high, functioning,you're getting everything done,
but you're dragging around thisheadache, this a little bit of

(52:59):
irritability, this anxiety.
And then what happens is wedrink and it goes away for just
a brief period of time.
All of those quote symptoms goaway because alcohol is
anesthetizing the anxiety, theoverfeeling, the overthinking,
the overdoing, the codependent,all that.

(53:19):
It's literally.
It's numbing everything.
Brene Brown is very famous forthis quote.
You know you can't selectivelynumb, so you can't numb out your
anxiety and keep a lot of yourconfidence and resilience.
It's going to go out together.
And so I think that's somethingto ask ourselves.

(53:43):
You know, what are we reallywanting here, and is what we're
doing really serving us?
Is it providing what we'rereally looking for?
I have found in my own journeyof just being on this sober
curious now alcohol-free journeythat being alcohol-free has
honestly provided everythingthat drinking promised but never

(54:05):
delivered.

I did read some research about that whole
cortisol.
I know Huberman.

Yes.

He talks a lot about alcohol and the effects of
alcohol, and I did hear or readhim talk about the research on
cortisol.
So for anybody who's not surewhat that is, that's your stress
hormone.
And here's another thing thatis, I'm sure, often not talked

(54:42):
about, and I know this becauseit's in discussions with
menopausal women.
All the time, when your ovariesshut down and they're not
making your sex hormones, guesswhat has to make them your
adrenal glands.
And guess what your adrenalglands make?
They make cortisol.
And if you're constantlyoverproducing cortisol, which is

(55:05):
your stress hormone, you'regoing to lack in other areas
where your adrenal glands needto work.
Like if you're one of thesewomen who chooses not to go on
bioidentical hormones, you ain'tgoing to have any if your
adrenal glands are notfunctioning well.

(55:26):
So I think you know.
The one thing that's probablynot talked about is how
everything is so interconnectedin our body.
It doesn't work in silo oursystems.

We kind of want it to because we like to
compartmentalize our lives.
Like I'm this, I'm this womanby day, I'm this woman by night.
I'm I'm like this on vacation,but I'm like this at home.
I'm like this on a Friday night, but not a Tuesday night.
But our bodies don't know thedifference and oftentimes you
know that seven to 10 daysnumber.

(56:01):
I work with a lot of women whoare, again, so health conscious
and so mindful that they'll goMonday through Thursday without
drinking and it's the whole.
But it's the weekend.
I'm not going to drink during awork week I got to look alive,
sis, you know, during the workweek, but on the weekend, oh,

(56:22):
it's my time, it's my time tochill, relax.
You're never getting out of thecraving cycle All week that
you're not drinking, you'repining away deep down,
physiologically, you're goingthrough withdrawal symptoms and
again, that sounds so like whoawithdrawal.

(56:42):
We think about it for like anaddict on a park bench with a
paper bag.
No, withdrawal symptoms happenall the time.
It happens with sugar, ithappens with a lot of things.
When you're going throughwithdrawals, it's just
everything that goes up mustcome down, and so all that means
is it could be, you know thebrain fog, the higher anxiety, a

(57:04):
little bit of restlessness.
Well, you can feel that wayMonday through Thursday and just
think it's your age, it's yourwork and it may be some of those
things.
But if you're drinking on theweekends you're also trying to
plow through all the withdrawalsymptoms throughout the week.
And then that's why Friday,friday, quitting time, friday
one o'clock, five o'clock, thepull is so strong because you've

(57:27):
waited all week with thatrelease and again attaching that
mental, emotional, social valueto it.
And that's why mindfulawareness of your body, day in,
day out, weekday, weeknight, youknow, weekend is really

(57:48):
empowering.
Because now I look at my lifeon a continuum of how can I be
more present and how can I bemore healthy versus, oh, it's
this day, it's a cheating day.
Again, I'm not aboutperfectionism.
I think that actually drivespeople to drinking.
I think perfectionism andpeople pleasing and high
performance, which again I'vedescribed women I work with

(58:11):
often, because I work with womenjust like me who tend to be
type A go get her done.
You can only hustle and do thatfor so long and then you're
going to crash and burn.
So what I've also discovered isself-care.
What does that look like day in,day out, throughout the day,
not just a spa day for fourhours every six weeks, but like

(58:31):
every day.
How do you have that releasevalve?
How do you get your rewardselsewhere?
How do you even keep the ritualof decompressing and unwinding
without using something thatjust provides quick, instant
relief but actually takes fromyou?
You know, to me that's thejourney and that's where it gets
really fun and exciting tocreate that kind of lifestyle

(58:55):
where you're like, wow,everything can be more of a
deposit, instead of alwaystrying to balance out, deposit
withdraw, deposit withdraw.
That's what moderation was forme with drinking.
It was like, okay, well, I candrink here, but then I'll have
to juice cleanse there.
And it was like it was morework for me than just going.
Well, I'm not perfect and youknow I don't always eat great

(59:17):
and sometimes I skip a meal.
That's not great, unless I'm,you know, purposeful.
And so it's more aboutmindfulness and more about
choosing than it is about socialpressure, peer pressure, even
at our age, in our fifties orabove, um, the, the peer
pressure, the social norm ofcome on, just have a drink, just

(59:38):
have one.
I mean, what if you don't wantone?
What are you going to say?
What are you going to do?
And that's a lot of the innerwork is getting back to your
alignment, your true self andyour balance, and then going out
there and just staying true toyou, but being supported enough

(01:00:03):
to do that so you don't feelalone being supported enough to
do that, so you don't feel alone.

Sandy Kruse (01:00:09):
Another thing I just want to mention briefly
like I know that's I've heardthis term before is hangxiety.
Yes, right, and for mepersonally, I I don't get that
way.
I get very down.
So there's different peoplewill feel differently.
I know I get down and alcoholis a depressant, isn't it?

Jenn Kautsch (01:00:36):
Totally it is a depressant.
It can feel like a stimulantwhen you're doing it, because
it's just a sugar hit andbecause a lot of that is also
metabolizing into sugar too.
So it's like we, this is fun, Ican dance longer, I have more
energy.
Oh, you know, sandy or Jen'sgetting tired, they need another
drink.
So it'll kind of be an upper.

(01:00:56):
No, not really, it's really adowner.
It just feels good in themoment, so it's a trick.
It's kind of a trick because,um, yeah, you're really.
It's really an artificial highthat you're feeling.
It's kind of a euphoric,temporary high and wow, like I
said, everything that goes upmust come down.

(01:01:17):
So there's this chemicalperhaps you probably know more
about it than I do calleddinorphin, that literally
counteracts a lot of thatartificial dopamine spike that
rush it.
And that's what usually happenswhen I talk to women about the
3am wake up call.
That's what I call it the 3amor where and again, you can have

(01:01:37):
that for a lot of reasonshormonally and whatnot.
But if you've been drinking that3am, that kind of racing heart
beat, the feeling of dread,that's the other side of the
alcohol.
That's the other side.
That's the coming down and thatcan feel really debilitating in

(01:01:58):
the middle of the night becauseyou're laying there thinking
about all your responsibilitiesthe next day, how you're not
going to do this again, howyou're not going to do this
again, how you regret it.
And then you wake up and thenstarts the cycle again the detox
to retox loop, all the goodintentions, all the trying to
sweat it out with all the hotyoga.
You can possibly fit in yourschedule.

(01:02:20):
Go for the 90 minute class, youknow, like plus.
It's so rough because you'realready super dehydrated.
You're already dehydrated andthen we try to sweat it out,
sweat out the toxins.
I know I did hot yoga for adecade.
Okay, can I?

just tell you something.
Really, this is totally anaside and I'm not sure, so
anybody who's listening, goresearch this, cause.
I'm not sure if this is 100%true, but I have heard that when
you do do hot yoga, you're noteven detoxing because your body
is in such a high state ofstress that you're not even.

(01:02:59):
And if you're detoxing justalcohol, or you think you are
are you really Cause?
Remember, when you're detoxingand sweating like that, in order
to detox you have to have areally good foundation of
minerals in your body, right?
So just something for everybodyto think about.

I'm not a hundred percent sure on this, but I can
tell you just from my ownexperience, going into a hot
yoga class, like a Bikram hotyoga class, which are notorious
for like being pretty hardcore,hungover and dehydrated,
thinking that if I can justdrink enough electrolytes in the
car on the way just doesn'twork that way, and so oftentimes

(01:03:39):
I would leave there feeling wayworse and just felt like I was
almost like paying penance, Likeit was almost like a body kind
of subconscious punishment, likeget in there, sweat it out, and
and I just sometimes I justcouldn't even do the class

(01:04:01):
because again, as we age, ourbodies just don't bounce back
like it, like it seemed to dowhen we were younger and there
are physiological reasons forthat and uh yeah, and then just
the, the shame and the gettingdown on yourself and all of
these things, if you don't havethe right tools, strategies or a
community of support, actuallymake you want to drink more.

(01:04:24):
I mean, let's think about it.
If you're in a state of mindthat's down on yourself, you're
feeling high anxiety, you feelterrible physically and then you
take a drink.
I mean, that's why there is aphysical addiction side to this
and people who have gone all theway down the drinking spectrum.
There's about 10% of heavydrinkers that would fit into the

(01:04:46):
physical addiction part of thedrinking spectrum.
So the majority is kind of inthat gray area right, kind of
like a bell curve.
Very few people who drink trulytake it or leave it don't care.
Maybe they'll do a toast once ayear at a wedding.
They drink alcohol, but liketotally means nothing.
Year at a wedding, they drinkalcohol, but like totally means

(01:05:09):
nothing.
And really, if, if, if, theyknew more, they may not drink it
at all.
I mean it just doesn't havethat connection all the way to,
um, it can be very dangerous tohave physical withdrawal
symptoms.
If you're in the physical, youknow addiction aspect of
drinking and so, um, yeah, Ijust think you know drinking and

(01:05:29):
so, yeah, I just think you knowall the things that we do to
try to kind of have our cake andeat it too.
For example, I would, you know,have my little nightly glass of
wine while I was cooking, andthen I would also be at the
grocery store and not to giveadvertisement for this product.
But there's one out therecalled Party Smart and it was
like a capsule, it was like asupplement with like milk,
thistle and all kinds of likethings that were supposed to be

(01:05:51):
good for your liver, and I wouldliterally buy that in tandem
with my alcohol.
I mean, that's a wake up callright there.
If you're doing that, you're nota bad person, you're just
trying to mitigate what it isyou're doing.
That you know is not doing youany favors, but that pull, that
draw is so strong and I justwant to recognize that that if

(01:06:13):
you are in this habitualdrinking place where you can
take it or leave it, but whenyou leave it you really are
feeling miserable, deprived,left out.
You don't really have the tools, you're just kind of white
knuckling it.
Maybe you are going throughyour work week without anything
and then you're just kind oflike binging on the weekend.
Or maybe you were, like me,just kind of mindlessly sipping

(01:06:34):
throughout life and taking daysand weeks off in between.
But it was kind of my home rowkey, if you will, because again,
it just felt normal.
It's what we did to transitionfrom day to night.

Yeah, I'm glad that you specified that, because you
gave some examples of maybespots where you want to be more
cognizant is this show.
You know, whatever we talk,whatever I talk about with any

(01:07:08):
guests, it's not to preach or tosay that you must do this, but
if you're listening, it'sprobably because something is
resonating within you that youwant to listen.
So that, to me, is is great,and I think it's just like you
know, if somebody was to tell meoh, you know, smoking does all

(01:07:30):
these bad things to you, and ifI wasn't ready to listen, it
would literally go over my head.

Right.

So I'm glad that you mentioned a few, just a few
examples of where it might mightbe.
Something that you want tothink about Now is a lot of your
programs.
Is it mindset, jen?

Yes, I would say a lot of what I am talking about
in my 21-day challenge that doesstart at the beginning of every
month.
Of course, dry January iscoming up and that's a big one,
but a lot of it is mindset,because if we don't go to the
root of our thinking and we justdo behavior modification, we

(01:08:17):
can all do that.
For you know, there's NationalQuitters Day.
It's usually the secondThursday, I think, or the second
week of every January.
It's literally on the calendar,national Quitters Day.
Because that's just behaviormodification, and if we just do
it all based on emotion, well, Icould moderate or choose to not
drink if my emotionalwell-being was stable, but what

(01:08:40):
if it got unstable?
It wasn't going to work.
I had to work even back deeperand further in with my thinking,
and so that's a lot of what Italk about is practical
strategies on the behavior side,more how to manage the emotions
.
But all of these things comefrom our thinking and so I think

(01:09:03):
a lot of it is practical,especially at the beginning when
women are just like okay, I'mgoing to trust you, jen, I'm
going to, I'm going to try toset alcohol down.
For you know, 21 days, threeweeks, I'm like give me three
weeks and if you, if you drinkduring the three weeks, you're
not a failure, it's.
It's not this big slip up soyou have to slide.
You can just take it asvaluable feedback.

(01:09:24):
In fact, we look at it as recon, like you just got a data point
.
Let's use the data, forget themistake, remember the lesson.
So this is not signing up forchecking boxes or being perfect.
This is more of a journey intoexperimenting with your own body
, noticing your emotions andquestioning and challenging your
beliefs and going back to yourthinking, all within safe

(01:09:49):
community.
Because, you know, it's beensaid, the the antidote to
addiction is not sobriety, it'sconnection, and I've seen it
true time and time again.
Because you can, you can canread all the books and and even
listen to this podcast, which Ihope is helping, but at the end
of the day, it really boils downto having connection with other

(01:10:12):
like-minded humans, in thiscase, sisters.
We're an all women's group, sothat's that's a unique flavor to
to what we're talking about.
We talk about everything whenit comes to, you know, hormones
and challenges, being, you know,a wife, a mother, a daughter, a
friend, a sister.
How do we manage that?

(01:10:33):
Because there is an aspect of,you know, emotional sobriety and
I really talk so much moreabout being sober minded than I
do about being quote sober orsobriety.
Because I do work with womenwho truly just want to drink
less and there's room for thatin our group because I think

(01:10:53):
that's the best place to start.
Some women join Sober Sis andthey know I'm done, I don't want
to drink less, I don't want todrink at all.
There's a place for you as well, but I think, for me, when I
just started hearing informationlike this, I was intrigued, I

(01:11:14):
was open-minded, I was willinginstead of willpower, I had
willingness and I was willing togive it a short-term goal, you
know, just like give it a go fora short term.
And what happened was, you know,back in 2017, for me it was.
That was a big, transformativeyear Again.
That was the year that mydaughter was moving and kind of
reinventing herself, and I knewthat if I wanted to show up

(01:11:36):
differently at 50 versus 40, Iwas almost 46 at the time I was
right smack dab in the middle ofmy 40s and two I needed to be
all hands on deck.
She was making a major lifechange and I knew that it was
going to cause me some anxietyand stress and excitement and I
wanted to be there for her and Iknew, with the time difference

(01:11:57):
me being in Texas and her movingto the West Coast I needed to
look alive in the evenings.
I couldn't be on the secondglass of wine if she called and
needed me and not be all there.
So it's a huge catalyst for me.
It really was.
But I didn't start out with likehi, I'm curious, I'm never
going to drink again.
It was like hi, I'm curious, Iwant to drink less and I want to

(01:12:20):
not want it as much and I wantto not think about it as much.
So what can I think aboutinstead?
Because I'm usually, you know,just kind of counting down, uh
to is it five o'clock, yet I canwait.
I can wait, that's appropriate,you know that's that's
appropriate drinking fiveo'clock, and so I could wait,
and I was just so tired of thatrat race of you know, be good

(01:12:43):
all day and then wait for five.
For what?
And?
Um, yeah, so I really do invitewomen to start at a more
curious spot and open-minded andthen, um, yeah, so it was that
spring of 2017.
My first goal was six weeks, 42days, thousand hours.
And um, and I did it.

(01:13:04):
I did it.
It wasn't hard physically afterthe first week or so.
That create the physicalcravings of like, oh, I want a
glass of wine right now.
Physically, that would relieveany of my like.
We talked about kind of some ofthose subtle withdrawal
symptoms of a headache,irritability.
After about a week a lot ofthat felt better.

(01:13:25):
But the emotional, mental iswhat I was left with.
And then I could see, oh, thisis where the value is.
And um, but it wasn't.
It wasn't like I couldn't putit down.
I just decided one day I thinkI'm done, I'm going to take a
break.
And um, it's been almost eightyears since that time.
But I didn't start out thinkingI will never drink again.

(01:13:48):
I started out going I wouldlike to not drink right now.
And it would be awesome if Iwant.
If I wanted it, I could have it.
And if I didn't want it Iwouldn't have it.
And I wanted to not want it.
And it took me about a year toretrain my brain, the
neuropathway to really get sonewly developed that at one

(01:14:09):
point I didn't want it anymore.
I could have it, but I didn'twant it, and that felt very
different than wanting it andnot having it.

Yeah, it's like do you have that willpower?
So the way I always see dryJanuary is you know, maybe
because I never looked into it Iwould always picture it like
okay, I'm going to use mywillpower and I'm not going to
drink, and then, as soon as it'sFebruary 1st, I'm going to

(01:14:45):
crack open that bottle of wineand chug it back and get right
back into my old habits.
So this is just looking from anoutside perspective.
I'm not saying that's how it is, I'm just saying that's how it
seemed or that's how often itwould be presented, whether it's
on social media, from otherpeople, whether it's, you know.

(01:15:06):
But the way that you talk aboutit, it's very different.
It's being more cognizant andsaying, okay, what tools can I
even develop for myself duringthis time so that I'm not going
to want it like you said.

That are useful in February and March and April,
and then the summer months, andthen you've got the patios, the
pools, the beaches.
If anyone wants to make morechange in their life, they've
got to have tools that aresustainable.
That can just not be, you know,like dry January.
I love that.
There's a quote buzz about it,pun intended.

(01:15:43):
There's quite a buzz around dryJanuary and I love that because
the numbers are increasingevery year, with people who are
sober, curious, that's an actualterm, um, but I do think a lot
of people think, oh well, it's,I'll just got almost like prove
to myself I don't have that bigof an issue, that I don't have a

(01:16:03):
problem because, see, I can dodry january.
I'll just hit the, I'll justhit the pause button and then
almost like celebrate that I diddry January with drinking,
which again, I've done numeroustimes.
Um, celebrate not drinking withdrinking, um, and so I think,
yeah, I think the opportunity isthere to dig deeper and then

(01:16:26):
have tools that you can buildupon.
I think it's just the beginning,not the end, and when I was
doing all these 30 daychallenges and detox with that
in mind, of like proving tomyself, you know I could.
So I can't have that bad of aproblem if I can stop.
See, I was missing it.

(01:16:47):
It was like I was literallymissing the boat, missing the
opportunity, and so now it'salmost like an invitation to
just get started.
But you've got to startsomewhere and I think it's
easier, honestly.
I mean, all the habit books sayit.
I love James Clear and all ofhis work when it comes to habits

(01:17:09):
and breaking it down.
It's easier to have this, thiseffort ladder, if you will,
where you don't climb a fullladder with two rungs on it.
You want as many rungs as youcan.
Then you just go, you justclimb it, and a lot of that is
by setting smaller, attainablegoals for yourself, getting

(01:17:30):
positive feedback, feelingmomentum and then just going to
the next room, just moving thegoalpost a little bit, which is
all I did to get to this pointwhere I've truly created an
alcohol-free lifestyle.
It's a part of my identity.
I had an identity as a drinkerand then I've now switched it to

(01:17:52):
having an identity as anon-drinker.
Um, I don't necessarily walkaround and say, you know, aka
sober sister, I'm sober.
I just I'm a non-drinker.
I don't drink alcohol.
I drink a lot of other things,but I don't drink alcohol.
Um and this is a side note tomy story, sandy, I don't know if
you know this because I don'tknow if we've talked about it,
but I didn't start drinkinguntil my young 30s, really, so

(01:18:16):
you didn't party in your 20s.
I did not party.
Already in high school I wentto a state school here in Texas,
was very active in a sorority,was totally in the mix and for
me and my personality it justdid not appeal to me at all.
It looked kind of out ofcontrol, kind of wild, kind of

(01:18:38):
rebellious.
You know, back in the 80s yes,I'm totally dating myself Me too
.
You know 80s kid, right here,there was no Uber, there was no
cell phone.
I mean, if you got yourself ina pinch and you're, you know,
throwing up at a frat house oryou know stumbling around and
your girlfriends are too, thatjust for me just did not appeal

(01:18:58):
to me.
It looked kind of scary.
I'm a rule follower by nature,except for, you know, my own
rules when it came to drinkingas an adult.
So, yeah, so I was actually amarried mom working and kind of
fell into the happy hour scene,fell into the networking.
You deserve this.

(01:19:19):
This is stressful.
You know you've had a long day.
This is kind of your mommymommy wine juice.
You know the whole mommy winejuice culture which really
started about 20, 20-h years agowhen many of us listening were
young moms, and it kind of cameon the scene because, honestly,

(01:19:40):
when I say we've been duped, Imean purposefully, the, um, the
alcohol industry, literally, um,recognized who is not drinking
enough.
We've already got the, the men,we've got them on their beer
and you know bourbon and whiskeything that they're already
going um.
You've got certain segments ofsociety that are drinking, but

(01:20:01):
who's really not drinking enough?
Where's the demographic?
We need to really turn it onmoms, women, women, um, working
at, in their home, out of theirhome, women in general, but, but
especially moms.
And that's when you started toreally see, and I think that was
very different than when I wasa teenager or in my young 20s.

(01:20:21):
My mom didn't drink in a mommywine, juice culture.
She didn't take a Yeti to thepark and nor did we as, or I
didn't, I didn't either.
I, just I was not into that, andI, as a young mom, whereas now,
I think young moms, quitehonestly, are wise, they're

(01:20:44):
wisening up, they're watching alot of us in this middle age
bracket.
They've watched us and they'vealso watched us not have the
success that we wanted with ourwine o'clock habit.
They can see, and so, actuallyfor the first time in history,
we, our demographic I say we,I'm 53, this kind of middle age

(01:21:09):
zone which is your audience forthe first time in history, we
are drinking more as we age, notless.
And we are now the demographicthat is having the most struggle
and the most problem withalcohol.
It's not the young people, it'snot our sons and daughters,
it's us.
And that's why, again, I'm sopassionate to bring this

(01:21:31):
conversation to the forefrontand why I'm so thankful for the
opportunity, because we're thedemographic that's kind of
slowly fading in the backgroundwith this habit at home a lot of
it is at home.
It's kind of like not botheringanybody, don't want to get
anybody's way.
It's that taking our shine away, like you mentioned at the

(01:21:51):
beginning, and dulling our spark, dumbing us down, saying we
don't really have anything leftto offer.
We're kind of done.
No, sandy and I, combined, arehere to say no, you're not done.
Uh, you can just get started.
I started, sober sis, when I was47 and jumped into the realm of

(01:22:12):
social media and business andcreating what again?
What I wish I would have found.
But I didn't know what it wouldentail.
And so I'm just, you know, sothankful in my now mid-50s to
have such passion and purposethat I would not have had access
to had I become a professionalpatio drinker in these empty

(01:22:35):
nester years, which was exactlythe direction I was heading, you
know, just to kind of getdressed up and go with my
husband to networking events.
You know, play my pickleballand just kind of.
You know, wine, wine and dine,um, or keep working and just
hustle and hustle and then findmyself at the bottom of a bottle
on the weekends or after a longday killing it at work.

(01:22:58):
There's just more.
There's just more, and I thinka lot of your audience are
probably, you know, grandmas aregoing to be, and I work with a
lot of women in their late 50s,60s, 70s, and even have a
handful of sober-minded sistersin our community that are in
their 80s.
My old, my matriarch, sober sis, is 84, and she just recently,

(01:23:23):
in the last six months, did my21-Day Reset Challenge and it's
changed her life at 84.
So I mean, I'm here at 53 tosay it's never too early and
it's never too late to changeyour relationship with drinking,
because there's so much more onthe other side.
You really don't have adrinking problem as much as you
have a thinking problem.

I love that.
Oh my God.
Everything that you talk aboutI love.
I've done some cognitivebehavioral therapy courses
because nutritionists there's alot of correlation between what
you're talking about and foodaddictions as well, you know,
with the whole emotion side.

(01:24:04):
But the key is this, and Ithink you are doing incredible
things you are.
What you're doing is you'rehelping all of these women just
to wake up and let the way thatyou age be your choice.
Let it be your choice If youwant to retire and go enjoy life

(01:24:30):
on a beach in Croatia, which iswhat I'd love someday.
I'm just kidding.
I actually have no plans toretire, I don't.
I'm just going to keep goinguntil I'm not going anymore.
But I'm just saying everybodyknows right.

You may be called to a whole, second, third act in
your life in something that mayhave been lying dormant.
Or in my case, I think andagain I'm just coming from my
own faith perspective here Ithink that God all along had
been almost like predestined me.
I mean, I really believe thatwe are all given a special

(01:25:07):
purpose when we come to thisworld.
I think that that's alreadyinside us and I look back now at
my life at this point and I canalready begin to see the skill
set, the experience, theheartache, the mess to get to

(01:25:30):
this point, to have this message.
It all came together, the highs, the lows, the good, the bad,
the pretty, the ugly, all of it.
I need it all to do what I'mdoing now and I just think
that's so gracious because in myview and again as a Christian,
I was oftentimes and I know someof your listeners this may

(01:25:50):
resonate there were oftentimes Iwas literally praying to God to
take this away, like take thisaway, take this mental tug of
war away, take this divided lifeaway, the conviction I felt of
being kind of hypocritical withmy kids, kind of like do as I
say, not as I do, unless I canhide what I'm doing and then you

(01:26:10):
can think that I'm not lovingthis feeling that I'm getting
when I'm numbing out a littlebit around you.
And again, this isn't on them,it was me.
I had to really reconcile thatand I kept saying God, take it
away, take it away.
While I was like holding on tothe wine stem as tight as I
could, take it away, and I'm soglad in his mercy and in his

(01:26:35):
grace that he didn't quote justtake it away.
I, I have a relationship withGod.
I don't look at it likereligion.
I personally see it more as arelationship, and in a
relationship you don't do that,you just walk up and take things
away.
You partner.
And that's what I reallyexperienced on a spiritual level
, because I really do come atthis from a holistic point of
view mind, body and spirit.

(01:26:56):
So from a spiritual level orpoint of view, I was like, ok,
god, instead of me trying toperform white, knuckle it and do
all these things that are notworking for me, what if I just
met it with again the curiosity,the willingness and almost like
a surrender?
Just met it with again thecuriosity, the willingness and
almost like a surrender, likeI'm just going to surrender this

(01:27:20):
and I'm going to let go andpartner with you.
So I'm going to still do mypart.
I'm not going to just sit backand ask for some you know genie
in a bottle or some magic wandto come.
I'm going to need to do thework.
You know, we hear that all thetime you got to do the work.
What's the work?
Well, the work is ongoing,people, because we're still
doing the work over here.
But the work was being able tobe honest with myself.
The work was being honest withother people.

(01:27:41):
The work was learning insteadof just trying to quit.
The work is the journey, andthat's where the partnership for
me changed everything, becauseit was just filled with kindness
, grace and patience, because,again, I think there was this
other purpose that he had for me.

(01:28:01):
But I had to go through, had togo through the fire, to come
out on the other side, to be sopassionate almost eight years
later, to keep talking about itevery day.

Yes, ma'am, it's called the hero's journey.
Hero's journey.
Been there, done that.
That's why I'm doing what I doright now.

Yes, we want that for other people, yes, and a
hero in their journey too.

Yeah, so this has been an amazing conversation.
I love you, jen, like honestly,you're just so real and so down
to earth and I would love foryou to tell my guests and I will
have everything in the shownotes as well, all the links.
But let us know where we canfind you and follow you,
especially for those of you whoare just curious.

(01:28:48):
Just curious, check out Jen,just see, because you can see
how Jen speaks it's not withjudgment, it's not with
harshness, or anyway, just letus know where can we start off?
Yeah for sure.

Well, I've got a website.
You go to SoberSiscom.
I've got most everything there,but I'm really most active when
it comes to social media anyway, on Instagram, just at Sober
Cis one word, sober Cis and ofcourse, facebook too.
But at the beginning of everymonth, as I mentioned, I do run
a 21 day reset challenge sowomen can sign up for that at

(01:29:28):
any time during the month and ifyou're kind of past the first
part of the month and you go tothe next month, but I have
what's called a runway, so Ihave all kinds of resources and
ways to help women anytime.
Anytime you're ready to getstarted.
But if that seems even like alittle much, I do have a free
guide.
I have a free guide for oneo'clock tonight.

(01:29:48):
If you're like, okay, let mejust try some of your strategies
and see if they work, and soyeah, sandy can put all that
below in the show notes.
But maybe, just starting with myfree guide and looking at you
know an upcoming event or youknow a wedding or a holiday
party and going, you know, I'mjust going to try to not drink
tonight, let me.
Let me try some tools and see ifthey work.

(01:30:09):
And then, if you really wantcommunity because I believe, as
as one of my coaches says,community is immunity.
When you've got community, youcan become more immune to the
pressures and the temptationsand the loneliness and the
pressure of just social drinkingduring such a busy time.

(01:30:29):
And really, you know, with TryJanuary coming up there,
drinking during such a busy time, and really, you know, with dry
January coming up there,there's a time where the world
tends to collectively hit thepause button and hit the reset
button.
So if you're even consideringit, it's a great time because a
lot of people around you aredoing it too.
Now I can take you further thanjust a dry January, and that's
what's great about what we'redoing is we're building ongoing

(01:30:52):
community and support after the21 days.
That's a great place to start.

That's perfect.
Thank you so much for all yourtime today and your wisdom, Jen
Loved it Love getting to knowyou better too.
Me too.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Be sure to share it withsomeone you know might benefit,

(01:31:17):
and always remember when yourate, review, subscribe, you
help to support my content andhelp me to keep going and
bringing these conversations toyou each and every week.
These conversations to you eachand every week.
Join me next week for a newtopic, new guest, new exciting

(01:31:38):
conversations to help you liveyour best life.

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Beyond the Bottle: Finding Freedom in Midlife SUMMER REBOOT - Episode 276

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Beyond the Bottle: Finding Freedom in Midlife SUMMER REBOOT - Episode 276