December 8, 2023 • 27 mins
Ever wondered how stories of resilience and struggle can inspire young minds? Here's a golden chance to peek into the diary of Ernesto Cisneros, an acclaimed author and educator, as he reveals how his personal journey has shaped his writing. He shares his trials in getting published, the significance of diverse representation in literature, and how his narratives have made a profound impact on students, propelling them to dream big and find their own voice.
Engage with Ernesto as he navigates through a myriad of themes ranging from overcoming self-doubt to addressing complex topics in children's books. Listen to how he drew inspiration from real-life experiences and people to create relatable characters, and his soul-stirring journey from a child in Santa Ana to a nationally recognized author. Ernesto's determination to maintain a rigorous writing schedule and his relentless pursuit of his passion are nothing short of inspirational. His story is a testament to the power of dedication, resilience, and the transformative impact of literature.
Ernesto's journey doesn't stop here. His diligent efforts to amplify diverse voices in the publishing industry, his reflections on the influence of his classroom experiences on his writing, and the way he gives life to complex themes in children's books are truly captivating. The episode wraps up with a sneak peek into his upcoming projects and the legacy he wishes to leave behind. So, join us as we embark on this journey with Ernesto Cisneros, celebrating resilience, creativity, and the power of storytelling in education.
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Bianca Barquin (00:06):
Hello and welcome to another episode of
SAUSD's Amplifying Leadership.
I'm Bianca Barquin, your host,and today we're venturing into
the world of storytelling andeducation with a very special
guest.
Joining us today is ErnestoCisneros, a dedicated teacher in
our Santa Ana Unified SchoolDistrict and the nationally
(00:28):
acclaimed author of EfrénDivided and Falling Short.
Ernesto's journey from growingup in Santa Ana to becoming an
award-winning author offers aunique perspective on resilience
, creativity and commitment toour community.
Let's dive into his story andlearn how his experiences shape
(00:49):
the lives of his students andreaders.
Ernesto, welcome to AmplifyingLeadership.
Let's start at the beginning.
Can you share what it was likegrowing up in Santa Ana and how
it influenced your decision tobecome a teacher?
Ernesto Cisneros (01:07):
So growing up I kind of had the idea that I
would like to be a teachersomeday.
But I always felt that I wantedto go out and do something
first and gain some experienceand then go back, because I felt
like I didn't have anything toshare with the kids and I
thought that if I went out and Idid something and became
someone, then I can come backand give it back to the
(01:28):
community.
Things just worked out a littlestrange for me, but yeah, I
know it's been a wonderfulexperience.
I remember in second grade weused to have a year-round school
and when I was off of school Ididn't really have anything to
do because my parents werealways at work.
And so I remember going over toMiss Souter and just
volunteering in her classroom atFremont Elementary.
(01:49):
So I always worked with kids.
I remember even my fifth gradeteacher, she.
.
h er teacher's assistant, shewould have me take care of her
kids and she would hire me forthat.
And so while it was just verynatural to work with people and
so teaching just felt verynatural, but I did go off and I
pursued a career in film.
The industry just was a little.
(02:12):
.
.
i t wasn't as nice as teaching.
Let's just put it that way.
And so I came back and I didfeel a little sad that I had not
gone off and pursued somethingbefore going to the classroom.
So when students were asking methings about writing, I always
felt almost embarrassed.
I didn't trust the advice thatI was giving them, because, well
(02:35):
, who am I to give them thisadvice?
And I always just thought Iwish I could have done something
so that when the kiddos come tomy classroom and you know like,
for example, if I became apublished author, they'd be able
to see the book behind my desk.
And that was pretty much just adream.
I wanted to have that book onmy shelf so I can go back to the
classroom and then teach.
And then they ask you something.
(02:55):
It's like yeah, see, I did this.
So maybe, you know, it wouldvalidate the advice that I was
giving the kiddos.
Bianca Barquin (03:03):
Thank you so much for sharing and thank you
for your authenticity.
I think that's amazing.
So, Ernesto, in your books, thecharacters that you develop are
incredibly relatable and vivid.
Can you share who or whatinspired these characters?
Do they reflect experiences orpeople from your own life in
(03:23):
Santa Ana?
Ernesto Cisneros (03:25):
Yes, they do.
So I actually struggled to sellany of my books.
I actually wrote many books andI went about 14 years without
being able to sell anything, andthe comment that I was
receiving more often than notwas we're not connecting with
your characters.
And so I was thinking, ok, sohow do I get people to like the
(03:46):
characters and the stories thatI'm writing?
And so I thought, ok, let me goback to the people who were in
my life, who meant something tome.
And so one of the first peoplethat came to my mind was Efrén
Nava, who was my best friendfrom Fremont.
We were together fromkindergarten, first, second,
third, fourth, and fifth gradeand we weren't separated until
my parents didn't let me stay atLathrop, just because at the
(04:08):
time it was a little bit of atough school and they were a
little worried about me.
So they pulled me from thereand I ended up going to Our Lady
of Pillar instead.
But I just remember how, I meanhe was kind of like a brother
to me.
I mean I feel devastated everytime I talk about him.
It really hurts right nowbecause he passed away last year
.
He died a war hero, a nationalwar hero, and I'm just very glad
(04:29):
that he got to see the book andthat we got to speak before he
did pass.
But we had none of that toxicmasculinity thing going on when
we were kids and he was kind oflike a big brother.
He always protected me and sowhen I wanted to find a
character who was going to bevery relatable, he was
definitely the first person Ithought of.
But then I've also gotten overto kiddos in my classroom.
(04:51):
I have a sign in my classroomthat says be careful what you
say or do, or you could end upin one of my books.
And so I'm always payingattention and I'm always
listening, and sometimes I'llhear the kiddos speaking and I'm
like, excuse me, what was thatthat you just said?
And then they think they're introuble and I'm like, no, no, no
, you're not in trouble.
I need to know from my booksand so they'll share with me,
(05:12):
and so they're always keeping meeducated.
So I've actually incorporatedsome of my students, parents,
people on the bus.
Anywhere I go, I literally justfind characters.
Everywhere I go, I'm justlooking for interesting people
and that's pretty much what Iwrite about.
Bianca Barquin (05:27):
I love that.
Thank you so much.
So you've started to talk aboutit a little bit.
I know that writing a book andgetting it published is no small
feat.
Could you walk us through yourwriting process and how you
navigated the publishing world?
Ernesto Cisneros (05:43):
Oh, my goodness, that's a very
excellent question.
So if I'm being completelytransparent about the experience
, it was really, reallydifficult.
I was not the best studentacademically.
I think that if you were tolook at my records in high
school, if I had missed threemore days of school, I think I
probably would have been at50-50 attendance, and it's just
(06:05):
because I'd never, really.
.
.
I never saw opportunities for me.
I always tell people that Ithink I grew up with a sense of
disentitlement and so whenpeople would speak to you and
say you could be a doctor, youcould be a lawyer, you can go to
the university, you can do allof these things, I always just
thought they were referring tosomebody else.
I never thought that thosethings would apply to me because
I, honestly, I came from afamily of service people, so my
(06:28):
mom worked in the factory, mydad cut grass for a living, my
uncles were mechanics, unclesand aunts they worked in hotels.
We were just there to serviceother people and so when people
mentioned, go to high school,get your grades up and you can
go to any university that youset your mind to, I didn't think
that was something that waspossible for me.
(06:49):
I thought that someday.
.
.
my dad used to wear a uniform.
It was the blue pants and thenthe baby blue shirt, and he had
his name on there, Frank, on thetop.
I always just saw myselfwearing the same uniform someday
.
So I was not the best studentgrowing up and, honestly, people
ask me like 14 years, whydidn't you give up?
(07:11):
I had never tried my best atanything before and just once I
was kind of curious okay, whatare you capable of?
What can you do if you set yourmind to it?
And so writing became it, and Iwould wake up early in the
morning.
It'd be 5 am and all I'mthinking is okay, one more hour,
I can go back to sleep, I canhit snooze and get one more hour
(07:34):
in there.
And then I would picture KobeBryant and the stories of him
playing basketball, you know,practicing at 4 in the morning,
4:30.
And then going back at noon andhaving to practice with the
team.
And so I was thinking about thatmamba mentality and I would
tell myself okay, you know what,why don't you go ahead and tell
yourself that you would ratherget one more hour of sleep than
(07:55):
fulfill your dream?
And I always refused and I saidno, I will not say that.
And I would get up and I wouldwrite, and then, during
nutrition, I would write.
During lunch, I would writeafter school, before I had to
pick up my kiddos, I would writea little bit, and then, right
before bed, I would do the samething.
Okay, do you really want to goto bed now, or can you spend
half an hour or an hour working?
(08:18):
And if I was leaning towardsgoing to bed, I would just ask
myself the same question (08:22):
would you rather go get a little bit
more sleep or fulfill your dream?
And so that that was thementality that I took with Efrén
.
With all that said, though, Idid get pretty sick after I
wrote Efren.
I was pretty much exhausted,and I've learned to change the
way that I write.
So nowadays I write one hour aday, and I learned that if you
(08:44):
write one hour a day, excludingweekends, you actually would
write 50,000 words in a year.
A novel, that's about 50,000words without all that pressure
and without making yourself sickand enjoying the process a lot
more.
So that's kind of my routinenowadays, and I don't pressure
myself.
I now understand that part ofthe writing process is going to
(09:04):
the gym, going for a swim, goingfor a run, going to the grocery
store, going to Costco is alsopart of the writing process,
because you also need a downtimeto process and your brain needs
to rest, and so I feel like I'mwriting 24-7, all the time now,
and I don't apologize for thedays that I don't put any words
(09:25):
on paper.
Bianca Barquin (09:26):
Wow, that is truly inspirational.
I love the resiliency, yourpersistence.
I love the fact that you havefigured it out, right?
You figured out what actuallyworks for you, and that was
actually part of the nextquestion I was going to ask you
about what challenges did youface while writing these books
(09:47):
and how did you overcome them?
So if there's anything elsethat you want to share there, I
would love if you would do that.
But the other part of thequestion is tell me about
publishing and how did that workand what advice would you give
people.
Ernesto Cisneros (10:02):
So one of the things that sadly made
everything more challenging wasthat every once in a while, I
would find a publisher who, oran editor who, would be
interested in the work, and theywould read the manuscript and
they would tell me you know, wereally enjoyed the book.
Unfortunately, we already have aLatino at our house, and so
there's different ways offinding people who are looking
(10:22):
for Latino stories, andsometimes I would find an editor
who would put something onsocial media saying we're always
looking for diverse authors,and so I feel like, if I
contacted them, I'm like here, Iam here, I am right here.
You said you're looking for aLatino author, I'm right here,
and I would submit my work tothem, and then you would get
that, "Well, I'm sorry, wealready have somebody in the
house, and it's a shame becauseyou would never hear that being
(10:46):
said to a white person.
I'm sorry, we have a whiteauthor already, so we're not
going to be able to representyou, and so that's one of the
biggest challenges, and anotheris that, unfortunately, like
right now, we are getting a lotmore Latinos being published,
but they're not being pushed,and so, even though their books
are coming out, they're notgetting the support that
everybody else gets, and sotheir success is being limited
(11:07):
right from the very beginning,and so I think that's something
that we need to change too.
Bianca Barquin (11:16):
Thank you for sharing that.
Very important.
How do you think literature,particularly books like yours,
can impact the mindset andaspirations of young students,
especially those facing similarchallenges as your characters?
Ernesto Cisneros (11:29):
First of all, I know that sometimes most
people who are listening to thishave heard the whole idea of
having books like that aremirror books and window books
and sliding door books.
But I feel like that's notenough anymore.
Like I said earlier, I grew upwith a sense of disentitlement
and just seeing yourselfreflected back in a book isn't
enough, because many times thesebooks are not.
(11:52):
.
.
t They don't portray us in apositive light, and so I feel
that having a mirror book isn'tenough.
We almost need kind of like aglam mirror you know the ones
with the little lights all theway around?
Because sometimes I mean, ifyou look at a mirror and it has
bad lighting, you're not goingto like what you see, and we
need the, we need books thatwe're actually, you know, put us
(12:13):
in very nice light so we lookat ourselves and like, hey, we
look pretty good and that's whatI try to write.
So I always want to write booksthat encourage people to be the
best versions of themselves.
I want to show people how thingscould be.
With my second book, FallingShort.
.
.
it deals with a little bit abouttoxic masculinity.
It deals with friendship.
(12:34):
It deals with issues ofself-acceptance, but I always
showcase the behavior of thepeople that I'm talking to, I
always showcase the behaviorthat I wish I would see in all
kids, and part of the reason Iwrote that book was because, as
a teacher, I realized that weare very quick as educators to
give accolades to athletes andpeople, scholars, who have 4.0s,
(12:58):
but I've never seen anybodyreally go out and give accolades
to a child who shares theirlunch with somebody else.
So it's just a really goodfriend or very kind and very
thoughtful, and so I think thatsometimes we need to highlight
those kids.
So my second book was myattempt at highlighting those
kids and again, when they seethemselves and like, wow, they,
(13:20):
you know, they actually do careabout each other.
They're more like siblings thanthey are friends.
I'm hoping the kids will seethat behavior, see it in
themselves and be like, okay, Iwant to be like these characters
a little bit more.
So that's always the hope.
Bianca Barquin (13:34):
I love that, thank you.
Now let's move intorecognitions.
So receiving awards like thePura Belpré Medal and the SCBWI
Crystal Kite Award is no smallachievement.
Can you tell us about yourjourney to gaining such
prestigious recognition and howit has influenced your work and
(13:56):
interaction with students?
Ernesto Cisneros (13:58):
So receiving those awards first of all, they
were a gift.
However, it's very surreal.
I'm a very shy and introvertedperson, and so the accolades is,
part of me is not comfortablewith them yet.
However, what I do like aboutthem is that they're very
validating to the experience.
So, for example, when myparents came here, my mom was
(14:19):
only able to attend fourth gradewhen she was in México, she had
to drop out already to help outher siblings, and she was never
given the opportunity to attendschool, and I just cannot
imagine that her and my fatherdecided to leave the country
without having any money,without speaking the language
and really having much of a plan.
(14:40):
They just decided we need tochange the trajectory of our
families, and the only way to dothat is to go to the U.
S.
, and so when I did win the PuraBelpré, and I have some video
of this today we keep it withinthe family though, is when my
parents watched me win the award, and I remember my mom turning
to my dad.
(15:00):
She said Ya ves pancho, sívalió la pena.
See, Frank, it was worth it,and that was the beauty of the
awards.
It's a recognition not for me,but for the sacrifices that they
made.
That's why every time I have anaward, I feel like it's really
their award.
My mom has five children andevery single one of us, we all,
(15:23):
have not only a college degree,we all have a master's degree.
And the first thing that my momdid when she saw that we got
our first degrees is that shetook them from us and she put
them up on her wall and she saidI worked really hard for those
and all we could do was nod andwe were all ya, you did.
Here you go.
So I always tell people that mymom has five degrees and five
(15:46):
master's degrees and again, it'sjust very validating.
It's validating for so manydifferent reasons, for all the
sacrifices.
I've always felt really guiltyif I went over to my office to
go work or if I told my wife youknow what do you mind if I stay
a few hours after this chapterthat I really want to finish,
(16:06):
and I felt like I was takingtime away from the family, and
so when you win an award, it'skind of like okay, you know what
?
That time it wasn't just adream, it was something that was
worth the while.
So those awards are verymeaningful and, plus, they also
opened a lot of doors when EfrénDivided, before it was
purchased, there was a publisherone of the big five publishers
(16:27):
at the time who was interestedin the book and they took it to
the acquisition board.
So what happens is there's aneditor who will present to the
business committee and they haveto present their plan on how
they would market this book andwhether they think it would sell
or not.
And so they brought EfrénDivided to the table and they
decided that we don't think wecould sell too many copies of
(16:50):
Efrén.
And so they passed and fastforward a few, a little bit of
time now and I heard from a verygood, reliable source that not
so long ago a book went to thesame acquisition board and that
now Efrén Divided was being usedas a comp title to prove that
books like this can besuccessful.
(17:12):
And that is so special becauseit's because of those awards.
Those awards do help to bringattention to the books and many
times our books are not beingpushed.
We're at the very bottom of thetotem pole and when you win an
award, all of a sudden peoplekind of take notice like what's
this shiny sticker on the frontof the cover?
And so it just helps bring alot more readers.
(17:35):
And again, my biggest thingright now is about okay, I got
my foot through the door.
Why would I close it for thepeople behind me?
I'm going to open the door aswide as I can and I want as many
people to be on the journeywith me.
Otherwise, what's the point?
Bianca Barquin (17:50):
I absolutely love that.
I love the fact that everyaward that you receive, you're
thinking about not only folkswithin your life that sacrifice
so much to give you thoseopportunities, but you're
thinking about everybody elsewho's trying to do something
like you and opening those doorsfor them.
I think it's amazing.
So, Ernesto, as a teacher andan author, how do you integrate
(18:13):
your professional experiencesinto your storytelling?
I know you told me a little bitabout your students, right?
Do your classrooms,interactions, fuel your writing,
and how much do they?
Ernesto Cisneros (18:25):
They do, completely.
I have a lot of people that askme are you going to retire now
that, you know, you're asuccessful author and the answer
is no.
But it's kind of strangebecause as a teacher, it's very
difficult to find the time andthe energy to write.
But if I left teaching Iwouldn't have any reason to
(18:47):
write.
So I kind of need the energy ofthe kiddos.
They're the ones that kind ofhelp motivate me and keep me
cool and current, although cooland current' s probably not the
best words to be using, but theyteach me all the current lingo
and everything that's going on.
And they talk to me and theytell me oh, these are the new
apps and oh, have you watchedthis cartoon?
(19:08):
Because everybody's watchingthis cartoon.
So I go home and I'm like okay,I'm going to tune into this
cartoon and learn about this too.
So they're keeping me currenttoo and, honestly, they're my
best editors as well.
So whenever I do have.
.
.
like right now I'm working on myother book and I actually
printed out some copies of thestory and I handed it out to a
couple of the kiddos and I askthem, be as honest as you
(19:30):
possibly can.
And they are, kids areincredibly honest.
I know people say, oh, they'reyour students, they're going to
be nice.
No, no, no, no, no.
They are incredibly honest andI love that about them.
And, in fact, with Efrén, Iwrote Efrén Divided in 2016.
It was during the elections andthat was the fastest book I ever
(19:50):
wrote.
It took me about six months andat that point I had actually
given up on the industry.
I just didn't tell my agentthis.
We had submitted to everybody.
And she called me one night andsaid congratulations, we have
just run out of anybody.
.
.
e verybody in the industry,there's nobody else to submit to
.
You've been rejected by prettymuch everybody.
(20:11):
There's nobody left.
Why don't you go writesomething else and hone your
craft a little bit more?
And I said that's a good idea.
So I'm going to write apractice novel.
I was watching and listening toall the horrible things that
were being said about Latinosduring the 2016 elections and I
knew I wanted to write a glamstory to kind of help the kids
(20:33):
to see themselves in a betterlight, but I didn't have a topic
.
One of my students asked if hecould speak to me after school,
told me that his dad had beentaken away by I.
C.
E.
that weekend.
I was devastated.
I wanted to have a redo becauseI didn't like the advice I gave
him and I wanted to offer him afriend, and that's where Efrén
(20:54):
was born.
So I started writing that bookand because I had no intention
of publishing the book, I wasfree.
I didn't have to worry aboutthe rules, the constructs, what
I should do, what I shouldn't do.
I was able to incorporatestudents, teachers, my community
taquerias, people in the hoodand work in the food trucks,
(21:15):
Salvador Park, everything Inormally wouldn't have written
about because I thought therewasn't a place for them in
literature, which I was verywrong about.
I wrote about that and I wroteabout it with no apologies and
when I finished I gave it to mykiddos and I thought that was it
, because I used to teachcreative writing to the kids and
we would have critique groupsand so we would share each
(21:38):
other's work and I was justthinking they're going to read
the work and they'll see from mymistakes.
My dream was that one day theywere going to write a book
themselves.
Somebody would write a book,and at the end they were going
to put it there in the back, inthe acknowledgement section,
they would say dedicated to Mr.
Cisneros, who taught meeverything he knew about writing
, and I thought that was goingto be my 15 minutes of fame
(21:59):
right there.
And something really bizarrehappened that day, because my
kids read it and they're like no, this is something special, and
we'd never read a book likethis before.
I was thinking, oh yeah, I'myour teacher, you're just being
nice.
They're like no, no, no.
And I was thinking about this,like no, they were seeing
themselves, their neighborhood,they were seeing themselves
(22:20):
being valued, and so I remembercalling my agent and I probably
should have done this, but Iactually apologized to her
because I remember telling heryou asked me to go write another
book and to hone my craft andwrite something that we might be
able to sell, and instead, in2016, I go over there and I
(22:42):
write a book about an immigrantfamily which is, at that point,
I thought would be impossible tosell, and so I told my students
on my guys, look what's goingon in the world.
Do you really think there's aplace for a story like this in
the world?
And they all said yes.
So I said, okay, I would justto be served as a good example,
good role model, I'm gonna sendthis to my agent, and I never
(23:06):
imagined that two weeks later wewould receive an email from the
vice president of HarperCollins with an offer.
Bianca Barquin (23:13):
Wow, amazing.
I think that there's.
.
.
t here's something that's socompelling about what you said,
when you said I felt free andthen I started doing all of
these things, inc orporatingcharacters, things around the
neighborhood, all these otheraspects that you may not have
included before.
And I read the book, it's.
(23:34):
.
.
it's truly compelling and it'sso authentic and it's so
relatable.
I can understand.
Do you feel different now as anauthor and.
.
.
and is it changing the way youwrite?
Ernesto Cisneros (23:46):
Oh, dramatically, yes, yes, yes, a
thousand fold.
Now, every time that I write, Idon't worry about the rules,
and it's really interestingbecause before you're published,
if you do things that aredifferent, people will
criticize, oh, that's not theway it's done.
But once you're published, it'slike, oh, that's an artistic
approach, that.
(24:08):
.
.
that's impressive, that you'redoing it this way, and so now I
do feel a lot more free, but Iwill always, always write with
diverse characters.
My next novel and I know it's.
.
.
some people worry about writingbooks are gonna be "sell more
copies.
I have LGBTQ characters in mybooks.
I have people of differentbackgrounds, different ages, and
(24:29):
I, you know I have a n autisticcharacter with my next book.
I just try to represent thekids that I teach and the
community, and when you gooutside, I'm gonna see different
people, different backgrounds,so why would I erase them when
I'm writing about them in a bookabout the world?
It just doesn't make any sense,and so I don't worry if I do
get banned someday.
(24:50):
That's okay, that's.
.
.
I'm writing the books for the,for the kiddos.
Bianca Barquin (24:58):
And we'll always be reading, so.
.
.
So it's a perfect lead into ournext question.
With your strong support forethnic studies and inclusive
narratives, how do you see yourrole as an author and educator
in shaping a more inclusive andempathetic school environment?
Ernesto Cisneros (25:12):
To answer that question the best I can, I,
right away, I started thinkingabout my high school teacher,
Sharon Saxton, and thedifference that she made in my
life, and part of that I'llnever forget the day that she
brought Helena Maria Viram ontesand she wrote this beautiful
book called The Moths and shebrought her to the classroom and
there was a scene where she'sgiving her abuelita a bath and
(25:35):
it was so tender and beautiful.
But aside from that, she wasspeaking to her in Spanglish
and, and I had never seen thatbefore, and, and it was the
first time that I, my mind kindof like my ears, perked up and
I'm like, oh, wait, a minute, isthis possible?
Can this be done?
Wait, a person can make aliving by writing?
(25:57):
It was just that introductionand again, going back from
somebody who grew up the senseof disentitlement, that was
powerful.
So when, to me, in my classroomright now, we're reading Tumble
by Celia C.
Pérez, and it's an amazing,amazing book, and my kids are
eating it up and, and again,they love hearing people who
(26:20):
look like them, who speak likethem, and it includes luchadors
too, and it's a female characterwho's actually going to be
going into the luchador world,and so it just breaks so many
boundaries and it's sorefreshing to see and I think
it's super powerful, and Idon't, I don't know if I, even
today, I understand the fullbenefit and the power of just
(26:42):
seeing yourself, and I guess itgoes beyond just seeing yourself
as seeing yourself being valuedand your experiences being
valued, and I think that'swhat's missing right now.
Announcer (26:51):
Hey, there, Amplifiers.
We had such a wonderfulconversation with Ernesto
Cisneros that this will be thefirst of two parts.
Join us next week to hear therest of Ernesto's amazing story.
See you then.
Hello and welcome to another episode of
SAUSD's Amplifying Leadership.
I'm Bianca Barquin, your host,and today we're venturing into
the world of storytelling andeducation with a very special
guest.
Joining us today is ErnestoCisneros, a dedicated teacher in
our Santa Ana Unified SchoolDistrict and the nationally
(00:28):
acclaimed author of EfrénDivided and Falling Short.
Ernesto's journey from growingup in Santa Ana to becoming an
award-winning author offers aunique perspective on resilience
, creativity and commitment toour community.
Let's dive into his story andlearn how his experiences shape
(00:49):
the lives of his students andreaders.
Ernesto, welcome to AmplifyingLeadership.
Let's start at the beginning.
Can you share what it was likegrowing up in Santa Ana and how
it influenced your decision tobecome a teacher?
Ernesto Cisneros (01:07):
So growing up I kind of had the idea that I
would like to be a teachersomeday.
But I always felt that I wantedto go out and do something
first and gain some experienceand then go back, because I felt
like I didn't have anything toshare with the kids and I
thought that if I went out and Idid something and became
someone, then I can come backand give it back to the
(01:28):
community.
Things just worked out a littlestrange for me, but yeah, I
know it's been a wonderfulexperience.
I remember in second grade weused to have a year-round school
and when I was off of school Ididn't really have anything to
do because my parents werealways at work.
And so I remember going over toMiss Souter and just
volunteering in her classroom atFremont Elementary.
(01:49):
So I always worked with kids.
I remember even my fifth gradeteacher, she.
.
h er teacher's assistant, shewould have me take care of her
kids and she would hire me forthat.
And so while it was just verynatural to work with people and
so teaching just felt verynatural, but I did go off and I
pursued a career in film.
The industry just was a little.
(02:12):
.
.
i t wasn't as nice as teaching.
Let's just put it that way.
And so I came back and I didfeel a little sad that I had not
gone off and pursued somethingbefore going to the classroom.
So when students were asking methings about writing, I always
felt almost embarrassed.
I didn't trust the advice thatI was giving them, because, well
(02:35):
, who am I to give them thisadvice?
And I always just thought Iwish I could have done something
so that when the kiddos come tomy classroom and you know like,
for example, if I became apublished author, they'd be able
to see the book behind my desk.
And that was pretty much just adream.
I wanted to have that book onmy shelf so I can go back to the
classroom and then teach.
And then they ask you something.
(02:55):
It's like yeah, see, I did this.
So maybe, you know, it wouldvalidate the advice that I was
giving the kiddos.
Bianca Barquin (03:03):
Thank you so much for sharing and thank you
for your authenticity.
I think that's amazing.
So, Ernesto, in your books, thecharacters that you develop are
incredibly relatable and vivid.
Can you share who or whatinspired these characters?
Do they reflect experiences orpeople from your own life in
(03:23):
Santa Ana?
Ernesto Cisneros (03:25):
Yes, they do.
So I actually struggled to sellany of my books.
I actually wrote many books andI went about 14 years without
being able to sell anything, andthe comment that I was
receiving more often than notwas we're not connecting with
your characters.
And so I was thinking, ok, sohow do I get people to like the
(03:46):
characters and the stories thatI'm writing?
And so I thought, ok, let me goback to the people who were in
my life, who meant something tome.
And so one of the first peoplethat came to my mind was Efrén
Nava, who was my best friendfrom Fremont.
We were together fromkindergarten, first, second,
third, fourth, and fifth gradeand we weren't separated until
my parents didn't let me stay atLathrop, just because at the
(04:08):
time it was a little bit of atough school and they were a
little worried about me.
So they pulled me from thereand I ended up going to Our Lady
of Pillar instead.
But I just remember how, I meanhe was kind of like a brother
to me.
I mean I feel devastated everytime I talk about him.
It really hurts right nowbecause he passed away last year
.
He died a war hero, a nationalwar hero, and I'm just very glad
(04:29):
that he got to see the book andthat we got to speak before he
did pass.
But we had none of that toxicmasculinity thing going on when
we were kids and he was kind oflike a big brother.
He always protected me and sowhen I wanted to find a
character who was going to bevery relatable, he was
definitely the first person Ithought of.
But then I've also gotten overto kiddos in my classroom.
(04:51):
I have a sign in my classroomthat says be careful what you
say or do, or you could end upin one of my books.
And so I'm always payingattention and I'm always
listening, and sometimes I'llhear the kiddos speaking and I'm
like, excuse me, what was thatthat you just said?
And then they think they're introuble and I'm like, no, no, no
, you're not in trouble.
I need to know from my booksand so they'll share with me,
(05:12):
and so they're always keeping meeducated.
So I've actually incorporatedsome of my students, parents,
people on the bus.
Anywhere I go, I literally justfind characters.
Everywhere I go, I'm justlooking for interesting people
and that's pretty much what Iwrite about.
Bianca Barquin (05:27):
I love that.
Thank you so much.
So you've started to talk aboutit a little bit.
I know that writing a book andgetting it published is no small
feat.
Could you walk us through yourwriting process and how you
navigated the publishing world?
Ernesto Cisneros (05:43):
Oh, my goodness, that's a very
excellent question.
So if I'm being completelytransparent about the experience
, it was really, reallydifficult.
I was not the best studentacademically.
I think that if you were tolook at my records in high
school, if I had missed threemore days of school, I think I
probably would have been at50-50 attendance, and it's just
(06:05):
because I'd never, really.
.
.
I never saw opportunities for me.
I always tell people that Ithink I grew up with a sense of
disentitlement and so whenpeople would speak to you and
say you could be a doctor, youcould be a lawyer, you can go to
the university, you can do allof these things, I always just
thought they were referring tosomebody else.
I never thought that thosethings would apply to me because
I, honestly, I came from afamily of service people, so my
(06:28):
mom worked in the factory, mydad cut grass for a living, my
uncles were mechanics, unclesand aunts they worked in hotels.
We were just there to serviceother people and so when people
mentioned, go to high school,get your grades up and you can
go to any university that youset your mind to, I didn't think
that was something that waspossible for me.
(06:49):
I thought that someday.
.
.
my dad used to wear a uniform.
It was the blue pants and thenthe baby blue shirt, and he had
his name on there, Frank, on thetop.
I always just saw myselfwearing the same uniform someday
.
So I was not the best studentgrowing up and, honestly, people
ask me like 14 years, whydidn't you give up?
(07:11):
I had never tried my best atanything before and just once I
was kind of curious okay, whatare you capable of?
What can you do if you set yourmind to it?
And so writing became it, and Iwould wake up early in the
morning.
It'd be 5 am and all I'mthinking is okay, one more hour,
I can go back to sleep, I canhit snooze and get one more hour
(07:34):
in there.
And then I would picture KobeBryant and the stories of him
playing basketball, you know,practicing at 4 in the morning,
4:30.
And then going back at noon andhaving to practice with the
team.
And so I was thinking about thatmamba mentality and I would
tell myself okay, you know what,why don't you go ahead and tell
yourself that you would ratherget one more hour of sleep than
(07:55):
fulfill your dream?
And I always refused and I saidno, I will not say that.
And I would get up and I wouldwrite, and then, during
nutrition, I would write.
During lunch, I would writeafter school, before I had to
pick up my kiddos, I would writea little bit, and then, right
before bed, I would do the samething.
Okay, do you really want to goto bed now, or can you spend
half an hour or an hour working?
(08:18):
And if I was leaning towardsgoing to bed, I would just ask
myself the same question (08:22):
would you rather go get a little bit
more sleep or fulfill your dream?
And so that that was thementality that I took with Efrén
.
With all that said, though, Idid get pretty sick after I
wrote Efren.
I was pretty much exhausted,and I've learned to change the
way that I write.
So nowadays I write one hour aday, and I learned that if you
(08:44):
write one hour a day, excludingweekends, you actually would
write 50,000 words in a year.
A novel, that's about 50,000words without all that pressure
and without making yourself sickand enjoying the process a lot
more.
So that's kind of my routinenowadays, and I don't pressure
myself.
I now understand that part ofthe writing process is going to
(09:04):
the gym, going for a swim, goingfor a run, going to the grocery
store, going to Costco is alsopart of the writing process,
because you also need a downtimeto process and your brain needs
to rest, and so I feel like I'mwriting 24-7, all the time now,
and I don't apologize for thedays that I don't put any words
(09:25):
on paper.
Bianca Barquin (09:26):
Wow, that is truly inspirational.
I love the resiliency, yourpersistence.
I love the fact that you havefigured it out, right?
You figured out what actuallyworks for you, and that was
actually part of the nextquestion I was going to ask you
about what challenges did youface while writing these books
(09:47):
and how did you overcome them?
So if there's anything elsethat you want to share there, I
would love if you would do that.
But the other part of thequestion is tell me about
publishing and how did that workand what advice would you give
people.
Ernesto Cisneros (10:02):
So one of the things that sadly made
everything more challenging wasthat every once in a while, I
would find a publisher who, oran editor who, would be
interested in the work, and theywould read the manuscript and
they would tell me you know, wereally enjoyed the book.
Unfortunately, we already have aLatino at our house, and so
there's different ways offinding people who are looking
(10:22):
for Latino stories, andsometimes I would find an editor
who would put something onsocial media saying we're always
looking for diverse authors,and so I feel like, if I
contacted them, I'm like here, Iam here, I am right here.
You said you're looking for aLatino author, I'm right here,
and I would submit my work tothem, and then you would get
that, "Well, I'm sorry, wealready have somebody in the
house, and it's a shame becauseyou would never hear that being
(10:46):
said to a white person.
I'm sorry, we have a whiteauthor already, so we're not
going to be able to representyou, and so that's one of the
biggest challenges, and anotheris that, unfortunately, like
right now, we are getting a lotmore Latinos being published,
but they're not being pushed,and so, even though their books
are coming out, they're notgetting the support that
everybody else gets, and sotheir success is being limited
(11:07):
right from the very beginning,and so I think that's something
that we need to change too.
Bianca Barquin (11:16):
Thank you for sharing that.
Very important.
How do you think literature,particularly books like yours,
can impact the mindset andaspirations of young students,
especially those facing similarchallenges as your characters?
Ernesto Cisneros (11:29):
First of all, I know that sometimes most
people who are listening to thishave heard the whole idea of
having books like that aremirror books and window books
and sliding door books.
But I feel like that's notenough anymore.
Like I said earlier, I grew upwith a sense of disentitlement
and just seeing yourselfreflected back in a book isn't
enough, because many times thesebooks are not.
(11:52):
.
.
t They don't portray us in apositive light, and so I feel
that having a mirror book isn'tenough.
We almost need kind of like aglam mirror you know the ones
with the little lights all theway around?
Because sometimes I mean, ifyou look at a mirror and it has
bad lighting, you're not goingto like what you see, and we
need the, we need books thatwe're actually, you know, put us
(12:13):
in very nice light so we lookat ourselves and like, hey, we
look pretty good and that's whatI try to write.
So I always want to write booksthat encourage people to be the
best versions of themselves.
I want to show people how thingscould be.
With my second book, FallingShort.
.
.
it deals with a little bit abouttoxic masculinity.
It deals with friendship.
(12:34):
It deals with issues ofself-acceptance, but I always
showcase the behavior of thepeople that I'm talking to, I
always showcase the behaviorthat I wish I would see in all
kids, and part of the reason Iwrote that book was because, as
a teacher, I realized that weare very quick as educators to
give accolades to athletes andpeople, scholars, who have 4.0s,
(12:58):
but I've never seen anybodyreally go out and give accolades
to a child who shares theirlunch with somebody else.
So it's just a really goodfriend or very kind and very
thoughtful, and so I think thatsometimes we need to highlight
those kids.
So my second book was myattempt at highlighting those
kids and again, when they seethemselves and like, wow, they,
(13:20):
you know, they actually do careabout each other.
They're more like siblings thanthey are friends.
I'm hoping the kids will seethat behavior, see it in
themselves and be like, okay, Iwant to be like these characters
a little bit more.
So that's always the hope.
Bianca Barquin (13:34):
I love that, thank you.
Now let's move intorecognitions.
So receiving awards like thePura Belpré Medal and the SCBWI
Crystal Kite Award is no smallachievement.
Can you tell us about yourjourney to gaining such
prestigious recognition and howit has influenced your work and
(13:56):
interaction with students?
Ernesto Cisneros (13:58):
So receiving those awards first of all, they
were a gift.
However, it's very surreal.
I'm a very shy and introvertedperson, and so the accolades is,
part of me is not comfortablewith them yet.
However, what I do like aboutthem is that they're very
validating to the experience.
So, for example, when myparents came here, my mom was
(14:19):
only able to attend fourth gradewhen she was in México, she had
to drop out already to help outher siblings, and she was never
given the opportunity to attendschool, and I just cannot
imagine that her and my fatherdecided to leave the country
without having any money,without speaking the language
and really having much of a plan.
(14:40):
They just decided we need tochange the trajectory of our
families, and the only way to dothat is to go to the U.
S.
, and so when I did win the PuraBelpré, and I have some video
of this today we keep it withinthe family though, is when my
parents watched me win the award, and I remember my mom turning
to my dad.
(15:00):
She said Ya ves pancho, sívalió la pena.
See, Frank, it was worth it,and that was the beauty of the
awards.
It's a recognition not for me,but for the sacrifices that they
made.
That's why every time I have anaward, I feel like it's really
their award.
My mom has five children andevery single one of us, we all,
(15:23):
have not only a college degree,we all have a master's degree.
And the first thing that my momdid when she saw that we got
our first degrees is that shetook them from us and she put
them up on her wall and she saidI worked really hard for those
and all we could do was nod andwe were all ya, you did.
Here you go.
So I always tell people that mymom has five degrees and five
(15:46):
master's degrees and again, it'sjust very validating.
It's validating for so manydifferent reasons, for all the
sacrifices.
I've always felt really guiltyif I went over to my office to
go work or if I told my wife youknow what do you mind if I stay
a few hours after this chapterthat I really want to finish,
(16:06):
and I felt like I was takingtime away from the family, and
so when you win an award, it'skind of like okay, you know what
?
That time it wasn't just adream, it was something that was
worth the while.
So those awards are verymeaningful and, plus, they also
opened a lot of doors when EfrénDivided, before it was
purchased, there was a publisherone of the big five publishers
(16:27):
at the time who was interestedin the book and they took it to
the acquisition board.
So what happens is there's aneditor who will present to the
business committee and they haveto present their plan on how
they would market this book andwhether they think it would sell
or not.
And so they brought EfrénDivided to the table and they
decided that we don't think wecould sell too many copies of
(16:50):
Efrén.
And so they passed and fastforward a few, a little bit of
time now and I heard from a verygood, reliable source that not
so long ago a book went to thesame acquisition board and that
now Efrén Divided was being usedas a comp title to prove that
books like this can besuccessful.
(17:12):
And that is so special becauseit's because of those awards.
Those awards do help to bringattention to the books and many
times our books are not beingpushed.
We're at the very bottom of thetotem pole and when you win an
award, all of a sudden peoplekind of take notice like what's
this shiny sticker on the frontof the cover?
And so it just helps bring alot more readers.
(17:35):
And again, my biggest thingright now is about okay, I got
my foot through the door.
Why would I close it for thepeople behind me?
I'm going to open the door aswide as I can and I want as many
people to be on the journeywith me.
Otherwise, what's the point?
Bianca Barquin (17:50):
I absolutely love that.
I love the fact that everyaward that you receive, you're
thinking about not only folkswithin your life that sacrifice
so much to give you thoseopportunities, but you're
thinking about everybody elsewho's trying to do something
like you and opening those doorsfor them.
I think it's amazing.
So, Ernesto, as a teacher andan author, how do you integrate
(18:13):
your professional experiencesinto your storytelling?
I know you told me a little bitabout your students, right?
Do your classrooms,interactions, fuel your writing,
and how much do they?
Ernesto Cisneros (18:25):
They do, completely.
I have a lot of people that askme are you going to retire now
that, you know, you're asuccessful author and the answer
is no.
But it's kind of strangebecause as a teacher, it's very
difficult to find the time andthe energy to write.
But if I left teaching Iwouldn't have any reason to
(18:47):
write.
So I kind of need the energy ofthe kiddos.
They're the ones that kind ofhelp motivate me and keep me
cool and current, although cooland current' s probably not the
best words to be using, but theyteach me all the current lingo
and everything that's going on.
And they talk to me and theytell me oh, these are the new
apps and oh, have you watchedthis cartoon?
(19:08):
Because everybody's watchingthis cartoon.
So I go home and I'm like okay,I'm going to tune into this
cartoon and learn about this too.
So they're keeping me currenttoo and, honestly, they're my
best editors as well.
So whenever I do have.
.
.
like right now I'm working on myother book and I actually
printed out some copies of thestory and I handed it out to a
couple of the kiddos and I askthem, be as honest as you
(19:30):
possibly can.
And they are, kids areincredibly honest.
I know people say, oh, they'reyour students, they're going to
be nice.
No, no, no, no, no.
They are incredibly honest andI love that about them.
And, in fact, with Efrén, Iwrote Efrén Divided in 2016.
It was during the elections andthat was the fastest book I ever
(19:50):
wrote.
It took me about six months andat that point I had actually
given up on the industry.
I just didn't tell my agentthis.
We had submitted to everybody.
And she called me one night andsaid congratulations, we have
just run out of anybody.
.
.
e verybody in the industry,there's nobody else to submit to
.
You've been rejected by prettymuch everybody.
(20:11):
There's nobody left.
Why don't you go writesomething else and hone your
craft a little bit more?
And I said that's a good idea.
So I'm going to write apractice novel.
I was watching and listening toall the horrible things that
were being said about Latinosduring the 2016 elections and I
knew I wanted to write a glamstory to kind of help the kids
(20:33):
to see themselves in a betterlight, but I didn't have a topic
.
One of my students asked if hecould speak to me after school,
told me that his dad had beentaken away by I.
C.
E.
that weekend.
I was devastated.
I wanted to have a redo becauseI didn't like the advice I gave
him and I wanted to offer him afriend, and that's where Efrén
(20:54):
was born.
So I started writing that bookand because I had no intention
of publishing the book, I wasfree.
I didn't have to worry aboutthe rules, the constructs, what
I should do, what I shouldn't do.
I was able to incorporatestudents, teachers, my community
taquerias, people in the hoodand work in the food trucks,
(21:15):
Salvador Park, everything Inormally wouldn't have written
about because I thought therewasn't a place for them in
literature, which I was verywrong about.
I wrote about that and I wroteabout it with no apologies and
when I finished I gave it to mykiddos and I thought that was it
, because I used to teachcreative writing to the kids and
we would have critique groupsand so we would share each
(21:38):
other's work and I was justthinking they're going to read
the work and they'll see from mymistakes.
My dream was that one day theywere going to write a book
themselves.
Somebody would write a book,and at the end they were going
to put it there in the back, inthe acknowledgement section,
they would say dedicated to Mr.
Cisneros, who taught meeverything he knew about writing
, and I thought that was goingto be my 15 minutes of fame
(21:59):
right there.
And something really bizarrehappened that day, because my
kids read it and they're like no, this is something special, and
we'd never read a book likethis before.
I was thinking, oh yeah, I'myour teacher, you're just being
nice.
They're like no, no, no.
And I was thinking about this,like no, they were seeing
themselves, their neighborhood,they were seeing themselves
(22:20):
being valued, and so I remembercalling my agent and I probably
should have done this, but Iactually apologized to her
because I remember telling heryou asked me to go write another
book and to hone my craft andwrite something that we might be
able to sell, and instead, in2016, I go over there and I
(22:42):
write a book about an immigrantfamily which is, at that point,
I thought would be impossible tosell, and so I told my students
on my guys, look what's goingon in the world.
Do you really think there's aplace for a story like this in
the world?
And they all said yes.
So I said, okay, I would justto be served as a good example,
good role model, I'm gonna sendthis to my agent, and I never
(23:06):
imagined that two weeks later wewould receive an email from the
vice president of HarperCollins with an offer.
Bianca Barquin (23:13):
Wow, amazing.
I think that there's.
.
.
t here's something that's socompelling about what you said,
when you said I felt free andthen I started doing all of
these things, inc orporatingcharacters, things around the
neighborhood, all these otheraspects that you may not have
included before.
And I read the book, it's.
(23:34):
.
.
it's truly compelling and it'sso authentic and it's so
relatable.
I can understand.
Do you feel different now as anauthor and.
.
.
and is it changing the way youwrite?
Ernesto Cisneros (23:46):
Oh, dramatically, yes, yes, yes, a
thousand fold.
Now, every time that I write, Idon't worry about the rules,
and it's really interestingbecause before you're published,
if you do things that aredifferent, people will
criticize, oh, that's not theway it's done.
But once you're published, it'slike, oh, that's an artistic
approach, that.
(24:08):
.
.
that's impressive, that you'redoing it this way, and so now I
do feel a lot more free, but Iwill always, always write with
diverse characters.
My next novel and I know it's.
.
.
some people worry about writingbooks are gonna be "sell more
copies.
I have LGBTQ characters in mybooks.
I have people of differentbackgrounds, different ages, and
(24:29):
I, you know I have a n autisticcharacter with my next book.
I just try to represent thekids that I teach and the
community, and when you gooutside, I'm gonna see different
people, different backgrounds,so why would I erase them when
I'm writing about them in a bookabout the world?
It just doesn't make any sense,and so I don't worry if I do
get banned someday.
(24:50):
That's okay, that's.
.
.
I'm writing the books for the,for the kiddos.
Bianca Barquin (24:58):
And we'll always be reading, so.
.
.
So it's a perfect lead into ournext question.
With your strong support forethnic studies and inclusive
narratives, how do you see yourrole as an author and educator
in shaping a more inclusive andempathetic school environment?
Ernesto Cisneros (25:12):
To answer that question the best I can, I,
right away, I started thinkingabout my high school teacher,
Sharon Saxton, and thedifference that she made in my
life, and part of that I'llnever forget the day that she
brought Helena Maria Viram ontesand she wrote this beautiful
book called The Moths and shebrought her to the classroom and
there was a scene where she'sgiving her abuelita a bath and
(25:35):
it was so tender and beautiful.
But aside from that, she wasspeaking to her in Spanglish
and, and I had never seen thatbefore, and, and it was the
first time that I, my mind kindof like my ears, perked up and
I'm like, oh, wait, a minute, isthis possible?
Can this be done?
Wait, a person can make aliving by writing?
(25:57):
It was just that introductionand again, going back from
somebody who grew up the senseof disentitlement, that was
powerful.
So when, to me, in my classroomright now, we're reading Tumble
by Celia C.
Pérez, and it's an amazing,amazing book, and my kids are
eating it up and, and again,they love hearing people who
(26:20):
look like them, who speak likethem, and it includes luchadors
too, and it's a female characterwho's actually going to be
going into the luchador world,and so it just breaks so many
boundaries and it's sorefreshing to see and I think
it's super powerful, and Idon't, I don't know if I, even
today, I understand the fullbenefit and the power of just
(26:42):
seeing yourself, and I guess itgoes beyond just seeing yourself
as seeing yourself being valuedand your experiences being
valued, and I think that'swhat's missing right now.
Announcer (26:51):
Hey, there, Amplifiers.
We had such a wonderfulconversation with Ernesto
Cisneros that this will be thefirst of two parts.
Join us next week to hear therest of Ernesto's amazing story.
See you then.
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