September 22, 2023 • 25 mins
If SAUSD's new outcomes-based contracting initiative had a face, it would be that of our incredible guest, Jennifer Cisneros, the Dynamic Director of Expanded Learning at SAUSD. Jennifer takes us on an engrossing journey into the world of outcomes-based contracting in education, an innovative approach that focuses on paying for results rather than just services. This game-changing model is not just about fiscal responsibility, but also about ensuring the quality of services, with the ultimate aim of nurturing student success.
Dive deep as Jennifer unveils how the Expanded Learning Department at SAUSD is revolutionizing the learning landscape with outcomes-based contracting. Discover the thoughtful planning that goes behind allocating potential payouts and setting goals that reflect the values of the district. Also, gain insights into how personalized learning plans are tailored to the needs of each student, promising a learning experience that is as unique as every child.
But what's an innovative approach without some challenges? Jennifer candidly discusses potential roadblocks and how they're being addressed. She talks about the significant role of measurement and evaluation in outcomes-based contracting, the metrics used, and the potential of using SEL data to measure the impact of tutoring services on students' self-efficacy and agency. And we wrap up our conversation celebrating the ripple effects of Jennifer's leadership and her unwavering commitment to student success. This episode is more than just a conversation; it's a testament to the power of innovative thinking in shaping the future of education.
Visit us at our Buzzsprout site for more ways to listen, links to our social media sites and any referenced materials, and complete transcripts of our full-length episodes: https://bit.ly/SAUSDAmplifyingLeadership
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bianca Barquin (00:07):
Hello and welcome back to SAUSD's
Amplifying Leadership.
I'm your host, Bianca Barquin,the Assistant Superintendent of
Teaching and Learning for theSanta Ana Unified School
District.
At SAUSD, we believe in pushingboundaries and exploring
groundbreaking avenues toimprove educational experiences
for our students.
(00:27):
Today, we're diving into acaptivating topic:
outcomes-based contracting inour Expanded Learning Program.
What is it?
How will this avant-gardeapproach elevate our students'
journey while ensuring fiscalresponsibility?
Buckle up as we unfold theselayers with a very special guest
(00:47):
.
Joining us today is JenniferCisneros, the dynamic Director
of Expanded Learning here atSAUSD.
Jennifer's dedication andinnovative insights have been
instrumental in ushering in thisnew wave of transformation in
our district.
Jennifer, thank you for joiningme today.
For our listeners who might benew to the concept, can you
(01:10):
briefly explain whatoutcomes-based contracting means
, especially in the context ofeducation?
Jennifer Cisneros (01:17):
Yes, thank you for having me today.
Outcomes-based contracting, andlet's just call it OBC for
short, is an innovative approachto working with vendors that
shifts us to paying for outcomes, not just services.
What does that mean?
Essentially, it means that asignificant portion of the total
payment of the vendor is earnedonly as students achieve
(01:40):
outcomes.
The vendor is only going to getpaid if students are successful
.
Let's use tutoring as anexample, and in this example
we're going to allocate $1,000,the typical tutoring service is
about $1,200 per student forhigh-impact tutoring.
In an outcomes-basedcontracting model you have to
allocate a portion of thefunding to a base payment.
(02:00):
So the tutoring service needsto get paid for students in
seats for receiving tutoringservices, just for their own
standard operation.
That would be a base payment.
For this $1,000 example, we'regoing to say 40% of it is going
to go towards a base payment.
So 40% of $1,000 is $400.
So $400 for students sitting inseats getting tutoring services
(02:24):
.
Now what happens to theremaining $600?
We have to determine what ourpayment outcomes are.
A payment outcome is indicatorsof student success that are
tied to payment.
Remember, the purpose of OBC isto pay for outcomes.
So if we're offering tutoring,let's say it's focused on math
(02:45):
tutoring, and the districtdetermines the outcomes we want
for students as a result oftutoring is: 1.
conditional percentile growthin MAP, and, 2.
proficiency in the stateassessment, our SBAC assessment.
We can now tie payments to ouridentified outcomes.
So for easy math, no punintended, let's say we are
(03:07):
assigning $300 of that, $600 toconditional percentile growth
and the remaining $300 is goingto go towards the SBAC
assessment, the proficiencyassessment.
And let's take a student.
We're gonna play this out in anexample.
So we're gonna have Student Aand let's say Student A is
Xavier.
Xavier is gonna attend tutoring.
(03:29):
He is going to attend forwhatever the dosage of tutoring
is and he's sitting in the seat,he's receiving tutoring
services; the vendor's gonna getpaid $400 for Xavier attending
the program.
But Xavier ends up hitting hisconditional percentile growth
target and he also scoresproficient on the SBAC.
That vendor is going to receive$1,000 for Xavier participating
(03:52):
in tutoring services.
It's a win-win (03:53):
Xavier achieves his goals in reaching his
outcomes.
The vendor gets the maximumpayout for that service.
Now let's take Student B.
Student B, we'll call him Dan.
Dan attends tutoring, sits inthe seat, gets tutoring services
.
Vendor gets paid their $400,but Dan hits his conditional
(04:15):
percentile growth.
That is a student achievementoutcome, right.
So Dan hits that growth.
But unfortunately Dan did notscore proficient in the state
assessment.
That vendor only will get paidthen $700 for Dan because only
one outcome was met.
Bianca Barquin (04:33):
So it really makes me think about a couple of
things.
One it makes me think about howthoughtful we have to be in
planning whenever we're workingwith our partners or working
with vendors.
And, to be honest with you, Idon't think we've ever been in
that space before I think weplan with them and we talk to
them, but not necessarily interms of goal setting the way
(04:56):
we're doing it here.
It's way different fromanything I've ever heard before.
Which leads me to my nextquestion how has contracting
traditionally worked in theeducational landscape, and what
shifts are we observing withoutcomes-based models?
Jennifer Cisneros (05:11):
Yeah, so traditional contracting, which
probably everybody listening tothis podcast is very familiar
with, and we're just going tokeep an example of tutoring.
So in this traditionalcontracting model it's very
service delivery driven.
Typically it's going to besomething like a vendor saying
(05:32):
we charge $30 an hour pertutoring session and if the
student attends this tutoringsession then the vendor gets
paid.
Accountability is not builtinto that contract.
On whether the service waseffective and impactful for the
student, it doesn't matter, thestudent attended, the vendor
gets paid.
The shift we're seeing with anOBC model is that it's more
(05:54):
evidence-based and focused, likeit's actually centered on
students achieving outcomes.
It's being very clear on whatwe value as a district, what's
important to us and what weexpect, and only paying if that
expectation is met.
Bianca Barquin (06:12):
So .
I'm so excited.
This is exactly where we'removing towards and it's going to
help every single studentactualize what we want them to
in terms of the graduate profile.
Perfect.
So my next question is how isSAUSD's expanded learning
department using outcomes- basedcontracting?
Jennifer Cisneros (06:31):
Yeah, so we were approached as a district a
while ago to be part of a team,to be part of a cohort, and time
and space were a challenge andwe were really disappointed that
we weren't part of the firstcohort.
But opportunity came backaround and we formed a
cross-disciplinary team toparticipate in an OBC cohort
(06:54):
that is led by the SouthernEducation Foun dation and their
consulting agency, Third Sector,and we have had this team
really go through a six-monthprocess of learning about
outcomes-based contracting whiledesigning our first request for
proposal for this type ofcontract.
And I have to say the team thatwe have assembled has been
pretty phenomenal (07:18):
Dr.
Emily Wolk, our ExecutiveDirector of Research and
Evaluation, Diana Torres,Executive Director of Teaching
and Learning, Michael Esparza,our Director of Purchasing,
Lupita Cruz, our AssistantDirector of Expanded Learning,
and myself.
Just such a dynamic teambringing different lens and
focus to this project.
(07:38):
And through the expansion ofour after-school program and
really the investment from thestate in Expanded Learning
Opportunities Program, that ELOPfunding that everybody has
heard about, and we're talkingabout and we've been planning
for?
Part of that planning, weinvested $3 million for targeted
one-on-one tutoring and there'sa whole tutoring plan in there
(08:00):
that that's just one part of it,and through this process we
determined that these serviceswe're targeting 3000 students in
grades three through five whoare at or below the 40th
percentile on NWEA math readinggrowth and who are identified as
an English learner and orfoster youth and or McKinney-
Vento.
And we're really looking at twocohorts of providing
(08:22):
high-impact tutoring, with 1500students targeted in the fall
and 1500 students targeted inthe spring.
Now I got to talk a little bitabout the math, right, because a
lot of this is about, like, theoutcomes.
And so the question is earlierI talked about this base payment
, I talked these outcomes, youknow, payments tied to outcomes,
and so what we're doing here inSanta Ana, and it was a very
(08:44):
extensive process that we wentthrough to try to tackle these
outcomes; we are allocating apotential payout, r emember,
potential depends on if studentsachieve outcomes or not, of
$1,380 per student.
That's how much money a vendorcould potentially earn with only
$450 allocated towards basepayment.
(09:07):
So students actually receivingthe service, $930 is designated
for payment outcomes.
That is a lot of money when youreally think about it.
Remember, earlier I said, mostvendors for tutoring it's like
$1,200 per student is what theyget paid hour for hour.
The student receives tutoring.
(09:28):
They get paid.
In this model, only $450 isgoing to base payment.
That's insane.
But we had to really talk about,through this process, like what
is important to us, like whatis it when we think about
student achievement, what isimportant to us?
And so we identified fouroutcomes that are all tied to
(09:50):
payment for these vendors.
First one, mid-level growth, soa student hitting 51 to 65
percent conditional growth andNWEA.
High-level growth for 66 plusconditional growth.
We're focusing on a phonicsproficiency and we're focusing
on reading fluency and usingDIBELS and the BPST.
(10:12):
We're currently in the middleof the RFP process.
We actually just finishedscoring proposals this week and
have been working withpurchasing to get the final
recommendations up for boardapproval on September 26th.
So we're really excited.
We're.
.
.
and implementation for thesetutoring services is going to
start pretty soon after that.
Bianca Barquin (10:33):
Pretty amazing.
So I go back to thethoughtfulness behind this whole
process.
In order for us to be able tointeract when we're thinking
about OBC with contractors,we're going to have to take this
integrated approach right,where you bring all of these
folks to the table (10:50):
Research and Evaluation, other folks,
Teaching and Learning, everybodyto the table to try to figure
out what the outcomes are thatwe want to achieve, and
learner-centered.
So thank you for that, whichleads me to my next question for
you.
Research has indicated thatoutcomes-based models can be
(11:10):
more focused on the needs of thestudents.
How do you perceive thisalignment and what tangible
benefits can our students expectfrom this?
Jennifer Cisneros (11:19):
Yeah, student needs are rooted in a more
personalized and student-centricapproach in an OBC model.
For consistency, we'll continuewith tutoring.
It's our original example.
It's what we're doing as adistrict to kind of pioneer this
concept.
By having specific studentoutcomes, the vendors can
(11:39):
identify individual learningplans that will help students
achieve those outcomes.
So it's being really clear andreally focused so that
personalization can happen.
If done well and vendors alignwith the district, the tangible
benefits are great.
One, there's clear expectationsfor students in their learning.
Two, there's increased SELcompetencies in areas like
(12:00):
student agency, increasedmotivation and engagement, just
to name a few.
Bianca Barquin (12:06):
Thank you.
The next area I want to getinto is really based on what we
experienced at last night'sboard meeting Really listening
to Ron Hacker talk to us aboutour budget.
So let's talk a little bitabout fiscal responsibility.
One of the highlights of thisapproach is fiscal prudence.
Can you elaborate on how thiscontracting method ensures we
(12:29):
get the best value for ourinvestments and how it
guarantees accountability fromour partners?
Jennifer Cisneros (12:35):
Yeah, OBC is a partnership approach that
really focuses on achieving, aswe said, the specific results
rather than just delivering theservice.
One of the key advantages whichreally drew us to this model is
its potential for fiscalresponsibility and
accountability.
So, for example, there is anemphasis on results.
(12:59):
I feel like I'm gonna beat thatin, you know, through this
process, but the vendor isliterally incentivized to
deliver the desired outcomesboth efficiently and effectively
.
Otherwise they literally won'tbe paid.
Another example is the outcomesare clearly defined and
measurable at the forefront, sothere's a lot of clarity about
(13:20):
what's expected.
That allows us to build inregular systems to monitor and
evaluate the services anddetermine like is the vendor on
track to achieve the intendedtargets?
One thing about OBC that needsto kind of be said is there is
risk sharing, so there is someaccountability on the district.
(13:40):
I know in the conversation thatwe're having, it seems like all
the responsibility and the riskis on the vendor.
There is some mechanisms, thatis a shared risk between both
contracting parties, but thisdoes also encourage, because the
risk is there, it encouragesthe vendor to be more
responsible for theirperformance and take
responsibility for theirperformance, and there's an
(14:03):
inherent focus and value.
So it shifts us away from thefocus on outputs to the actual
value that's created for ourstudents, going back to being
centered on students, and whatare the outcomes?
This ensures that ourinvestment in tutoring is
aligned, ultimately, with thegoals of the district.
And the last thing, OBCencourages vendors to focus on
(14:25):
the quality of their service.
A lot of times it's aboutmeeting the contractual
obligations, and here thecontractual obligations are the
outcomes, and so it reallyforces them actually to focus on
quality for long-term successand sustainability.
When we think about all thefunding that has been pushed and
you alluded to it last night inthe board meeting, we talked a
(14:45):
lot about the pandemic all thefunding that came to districts
as a result of the pandemic, anda lot of it has expiration
dates.
Some have already expired.
And so we really have to thinklike student needs are still
gonna continue beyond the lifecycle of the funding and we have
to think differently.
We have to think differently.
We have to think about how tostretch our dollars to have the
(15:07):
most impact on students, and OBCis one way for us to do that.
Bianca Barquin (15:13):
I love it.
I really do think that thisprocess or way of operating is
so thoughtful on both sides, onthe district side as well as our
partners.
So now let me ask you aboutmeasuring success.
With an outcomes focus,measurement and evaluation are
paramount.
What mechanisms or metrics arewe employing to ensure that
(15:36):
we're on the right track?
Jennifer Cisneros (15:39):
First and foremost, Research and
Evaluation must be a part of theprocess.
Additionally, us ExpandedLearning folks like we are not
the Teaching and Learningexperts.
We are very, very upfront aboutthat.
So TNL also has to be involvedin the process.
In collaborating with DianaTorres, our Executive Director
(16:01):
for Teaching and Learning, shereally helped our team
understand what was mostimportant, based on the data
that Research and Eval provided,but from a student learning
perspective, and so that reallyhelped us go through the process
and determine what our outcomemetric should be.
Dr.
Emily Wolk was reallyinstrumental in helping us
(16:22):
determine ways to leveragecurrent data collection systems,
like, we didn't want to createnew things to start to measure
and add.
So metrics are really groundedin already existing data systems
and collection processes, andthe way we're assessing student
achievement.
And so things like the MAP youknow, is tied.
Conditional percentile growthis tied to MAP assessments,
(16:43):
which is already embedded in ourassessment calendar.
We have DIBELS that's alreadyembedded in there, the BPST, so.
But another metric, somethingthat's really interesting that
we are paying attention to wedidn't really tie it to payment
outcome, although we have seensome models in other county
offices that are dabbling inthis work is really looking at
(17:05):
SEL data and what the impact isto a student's SEL competencies
as they start to feel moresuccessful, as they start to hit
achievement goals.
So do we see changes in howstudents respond to SEL survey
data in relation to, like,self-efficacy or agency based on
them going through tutoring?
We're going to be payingattention to that.
Dr.
(17:26):
Wolk and I have had a lot ofconversations.
Right now it's we're calling itkind of a process outcome, so
it's something we're justlooking at and, truthfully, it
could be something that we talkabout adding in as a payment
outcome in the future, so thatthere's an expectation that
there is an SEL outcome tied totutoring services.
Bianca Barquin (17:47):
What I love about this is all of the
outcomes and all of the metricsthat you're mentioning, even the
process ones that we're talkingabout are all things that align
to our Graduate Profile and aregoing to help us actualize the
Graduate Profile, one, but two,they are all aligned with our
high board priority metrics,right, and everything we talked
(18:08):
to the board about.
So perfect alignment.
Now, every innovative approachcomes with its challenges.
What are some potentialroadblocks you foresee and how
are we prepared to address them?
Jennifer Cisneros (18:21):
Yeah, we were initially really nervous that
we would release this OBCtutoring RFP (Request for
Proposal) and we wouldn't getany proposals or responses that
it was going to be tooinnovative, it was going to be
too much of a risk for vendorsto try to throw their name in
(18:42):
the hat, but they did.
They did, they came out.
We had 20 responses to our OBCRFP for ELA tutoring and really,
as we kind of reflect, Dr.
Wolk and I, we've been on thisjourney together for a really
long time, even pre-pandemic.
We think that it's reallybecause it was clear, like,
(19:03):
people knew what they weregetting into, and we also think
that it's attracting vendors whotruly believe that they can
help students achieve outcomes.
Now, a potential roadblock isreally getting or ensuring that
the students are going to showup.
So, as we've gone through thisprocess and have been part of
the cohorts and have learnedfrom Cohort One, we know a
(19:24):
handful of districts nationallythat are doing this type of work
and all of them are pushingtheir tutoring models into the
school day.
We are focusing ourimplementation after school,
which requires us to findcreative ways to incentivize
students to attend.
I am not above bribing studentsfor their own good.
We're trying to find ways toleverage parents and their
(19:45):
guardians to ensure that kidsattend, etc.
You know, if a student alreadyis having low self-agency, them
seeking out or accessing atutoring services is not highly
likely.
And so we really have to findways to motivate students to
participate, you know, oncethey're identified as part of
(20:07):
the target group.
One of the things we are goingto be doing is we will be asking
site administrators for supportin these efforts and seeking
their expertise on how tomitigate this issue and these
challenge and other potentialchallenges that are going to
come up.
In previous implementationtutoring efforts that we've had,
you know, some of the thingsthat we've discovered that are
(20:27):
really key learnings for us is,one, there has to be a shared,
continuous recruitment andcommunication effort with the
site administration, withteachers, our own expanded
learning staff.
There has to be a collectiveappreciation of the importance
of high-impact tutoring.
We need an incentive plan forstudents that is integrated
(20:48):
maybe with some of the schoolday; there's some school day
incentives and afterschoolincentives.
So really workingcollaboratively to figure out
how do we build that plan.
And then we have to worktogether with the school
community to figure out how dowe really actively engage and
involve our parents andguardians and understanding the
importance of and the benefitsthat their children can gain
(21:09):
from participating in ourtutoring program.
You know, while we are leaninginto these areas, we are
planning for implementation ofOBC tutoring.
If anyone has any good ideasthat they want to add, like
reach out, Everyone should knowhow to get a hold of me.
If not, you know we can figurethat out.
But part of the OBC approachdoes include an adoption of a
(21:29):
continuous quality improvementmindset.
So as we hit bumps in the road,which we will, we anticipate
that, we will be looking at howto improve and tweak things in
the future, and so feedback willbe really critical throughout
the process.
This is new for all of us.
Part of our responsibility, wehave responsibilities to the
vendors and, like I said,there's shared risk-taking and
so there are some things we haveto do and make sure happen in
(21:53):
conditions we have to create.
So we'll have to work throughall those logistics.
Bianca Barquin (21:58):
So the resounding theme that I kept
hearing as you're answering thequestion is collective impact,
right?
And going back to that risksharing and what is our role and
responsibility in this newapproach?
The other partner I think wecan bring to the table within
our own system is family andcommunity engagement, and seeing
what Lisa and her team can doto support our efforts.
(22:20):
I think this is amazing.
Last question I have for you,Jennifer: as we embrace this new
approach, what are your hopesand visions for the future of
the expanded learning program inSAUSD?
Jennifer Cisneros (22:32):
Yeah.
So in relation to OBC, thisconcept in this model, my hope
is that the expanded learningdepartment will set the tone for
how effective and impactfulthis model can really be, so
that we can expand it into otherdepartments at the school sites
within our district.
Whether it's ed- tech contracts, whether it's contracts on the
(22:56):
admin services sides, itliterally can live anywhere.
This is not a model that isnot, you know, we've been using
tutoring as the examplethroughout our time together,
but it is not unique to justtutoring.
As we branch out, we can branchthis out into other contract
opportunities.
We can really focus on what'simportant to us and how to
(23:17):
maximize our dollars to reachthe most students and have the
greatest impact.
Bianca Barquin (23:21):
Amazing.
Before we sign off, it's timefor our amplifier
acknowledgement segment.
Jennifer, if you could amplifythe message or lesson from one
educator or leader, who's made asignificant impact in your
journey, who would it be andwhat is that resonating message?
Jennifer Cisneros (23:40):
Yeah, so I was a very young leader and my
journey was really has startedwith a manager mindset.
Like I think you know, we, Ithink we all had an image of
what leadership looks like andreally at that time when I was
younger and growing and reallylearning, I see now I was more
of a manager mindset.
(24:03):
But my old CEO, I worked for theBoys and Girls Club and,
interestingly enough, I was aclub kid who turned summer staff
, volunteer summer staff and,like I grew up with this
organization and all throughoutthat time Pat Halberstadt, was
our CEO and I got to know her invarious levels, from a kid to,
you know, a growing professional, and eventually served on her
(24:25):
executive leadership team.
And one of the things that justreally stuck with me about her
and what she really taught mewas that people are people first
and that the way to truly leadwas through relationships and
empathy.
And through those lessons iswhen I really started to shift
(24:46):
from a manager mindset to aleader mindset and that it's
really about people and howwe're guiding people to where
they want to be and investing inthem as individuals.
So she's somebody who has stuckwith me for a long time and
even though I left theorganization, she's still always
with me.
Bianca Barquin (25:04):
That is evident in every single interaction that
I have with you, Jennifer, s othank you.
Your insights today have beennothing short of enlightening.
It's evident that SAUSD is onthe cusp of a transformative
journey and we're all eager towitness the ripple effects of
these changes on our studentslives.
To our listeners, as we amplifyleadership and innovation,
(25:28):
let's remember that at the heartof every decision, every
strategy, is our undyingcommitment to our students.
Thank you for joining us onSAUSD's Amplifying Leadership
and, until the next time, keepleading, keep innovating and
keep amplifying.
Hello and welcome back to SAUSD's
Amplifying Leadership.
I'm your host, Bianca Barquin,the Assistant Superintendent of
Teaching and Learning for theSanta Ana Unified School
District.
At SAUSD, we believe in pushingboundaries and exploring
groundbreaking avenues toimprove educational experiences
for our students.
(00:27):
Today, we're diving into acaptivating topic:
outcomes-based contracting inour Expanded Learning Program.
What is it?
How will this avant-gardeapproach elevate our students'
journey while ensuring fiscalresponsibility?
Buckle up as we unfold theselayers with a very special guest
(00:47):
.
Joining us today is JenniferCisneros, the dynamic Director
of Expanded Learning here atSAUSD.
Jennifer's dedication andinnovative insights have been
instrumental in ushering in thisnew wave of transformation in
our district.
Jennifer, thank you for joiningme today.
For our listeners who might benew to the concept, can you
(01:10):
briefly explain whatoutcomes-based contracting means
, especially in the context ofeducation?
Jennifer Cisneros (01:17):
Yes, thank you for having me today.
Outcomes-based contracting, andlet's just call it OBC for
short, is an innovative approachto working with vendors that
shifts us to paying for outcomes, not just services.
What does that mean?
Essentially, it means that asignificant portion of the total
payment of the vendor is earnedonly as students achieve
(01:40):
outcomes.
The vendor is only going to getpaid if students are successful
.
Let's use tutoring as anexample, and in this example
we're going to allocate $1,000,the typical tutoring service is
about $1,200 per student forhigh-impact tutoring.
In an outcomes-basedcontracting model you have to
allocate a portion of thefunding to a base payment.
(02:00):
So the tutoring service needsto get paid for students in
seats for receiving tutoringservices, just for their own
standard operation.
That would be a base payment.
For this $1,000 example, we'regoing to say 40% of it is going
to go towards a base payment.
So 40% of $1,000 is $400.
So $400 for students sitting inseats getting tutoring services
(02:24):
.
Now what happens to theremaining $600?
We have to determine what ourpayment outcomes are.
A payment outcome is indicatorsof student success that are
tied to payment.
Remember, the purpose of OBC isto pay for outcomes.
So if we're offering tutoring,let's say it's focused on math
(02:45):
tutoring, and the districtdetermines the outcomes we want
for students as a result oftutoring is: 1.
conditional percentile growthin MAP, and, 2.
proficiency in the stateassessment, our SBAC assessment.
We can now tie payments to ouridentified outcomes.
So for easy math, no punintended, let's say we are
(03:07):
assigning $300 of that, $600 toconditional percentile growth
and the remaining $300 is goingto go towards the SBAC
assessment, the proficiencyassessment.
And let's take a student.
We're gonna play this out in anexample.
So we're gonna have Student Aand let's say Student A is
Xavier.
Xavier is gonna attend tutoring.
(03:29):
He is going to attend forwhatever the dosage of tutoring
is and he's sitting in the seat,he's receiving tutoring
services; the vendor's gonna getpaid $400 for Xavier attending
the program.
But Xavier ends up hitting hisconditional percentile growth
target and he also scoresproficient on the SBAC.
That vendor is going to receive$1,000 for Xavier participating
(03:52):
in tutoring services.
It's a win-win (03:53):
Xavier achieves his goals in reaching his
outcomes.
The vendor gets the maximumpayout for that service.
Now let's take Student B.
Student B, we'll call him Dan.
Dan attends tutoring, sits inthe seat, gets tutoring services
.
Vendor gets paid their $400,but Dan hits his conditional
(04:15):
percentile growth.
That is a student achievementoutcome, right.
So Dan hits that growth.
But unfortunately Dan did notscore proficient in the state
assessment.
That vendor only will get paidthen $700 for Dan because only
one outcome was met.
Bianca Barquin (04:33):
So it really makes me think about a couple of
things.
One it makes me think about howthoughtful we have to be in
planning whenever we're workingwith our partners or working
with vendors.
And, to be honest with you, Idon't think we've ever been in
that space before I think weplan with them and we talk to
them, but not necessarily interms of goal setting the way
(04:56):
we're doing it here.
It's way different fromanything I've ever heard before.
Which leads me to my nextquestion how has contracting
traditionally worked in theeducational landscape, and what
shifts are we observing withoutcomes-based models?
Jennifer Cisneros (05:11):
Yeah, so traditional contracting, which
probably everybody listening tothis podcast is very familiar
with, and we're just going tokeep an example of tutoring.
So in this traditionalcontracting model it's very
service delivery driven.
Typically it's going to besomething like a vendor saying
(05:32):
we charge $30 an hour pertutoring session and if the
student attends this tutoringsession then the vendor gets
paid.
Accountability is not builtinto that contract.
On whether the service waseffective and impactful for the
student, it doesn't matter, thestudent attended, the vendor
gets paid.
The shift we're seeing with anOBC model is that it's more
(05:54):
evidence-based and focused, likeit's actually centered on
students achieving outcomes.
It's being very clear on whatwe value as a district, what's
important to us and what weexpect, and only paying if that
expectation is met.
Bianca Barquin (06:12):
So .
I'm so excited.
This is exactly where we'removing towards and it's going to
help every single studentactualize what we want them to
in terms of the graduate profile.
Perfect.
So my next question is how isSAUSD's expanded learning
department using outcomes- basedcontracting?
Jennifer Cisneros (06:31):
Yeah, so we were approached as a district a
while ago to be part of a team,to be part of a cohort, and time
and space were a challenge andwe were really disappointed that
we weren't part of the firstcohort.
But opportunity came backaround and we formed a
cross-disciplinary team toparticipate in an OBC cohort
(06:54):
that is led by the SouthernEducation Foun dation and their
consulting agency, Third Sector,and we have had this team
really go through a six-monthprocess of learning about
outcomes-based contracting whiledesigning our first request for
proposal for this type ofcontract.
And I have to say the team thatwe have assembled has been
pretty phenomenal (07:18):
Dr.
Emily Wolk, our ExecutiveDirector of Research and
Evaluation, Diana Torres,Executive Director of Teaching
and Learning, Michael Esparza,our Director of Purchasing,
Lupita Cruz, our AssistantDirector of Expanded Learning,
and myself.
Just such a dynamic teambringing different lens and
focus to this project.
(07:38):
And through the expansion ofour after-school program and
really the investment from thestate in Expanded Learning
Opportunities Program, that ELOPfunding that everybody has
heard about, and we're talkingabout and we've been planning
for?
Part of that planning, weinvested $3 million for targeted
one-on-one tutoring and there'sa whole tutoring plan in there
(08:00):
that that's just one part of it,and through this process we
determined that these serviceswe're targeting 3000 students in
grades three through five whoare at or below the 40th
percentile on NWEA math readinggrowth and who are identified as
an English learner and orfoster youth and or McKinney-
Vento.
And we're really looking at twocohorts of providing
(08:22):
high-impact tutoring, with 1500students targeted in the fall
and 1500 students targeted inthe spring.
Now I got to talk a little bitabout the math, right, because a
lot of this is about, like, theoutcomes.
And so the question is earlierI talked about this base payment
, I talked these outcomes, youknow, payments tied to outcomes,
and so what we're doing here inSanta Ana, and it was a very
(08:44):
extensive process that we wentthrough to try to tackle these
outcomes; we are allocating apotential payout, r emember,
potential depends on if studentsachieve outcomes or not, of
$1,380 per student.
That's how much money a vendorcould potentially earn with only
$450 allocated towards basepayment.
(09:07):
So students actually receivingthe service, $930 is designated
for payment outcomes.
That is a lot of money when youreally think about it.
Remember, earlier I said, mostvendors for tutoring it's like
$1,200 per student is what theyget paid hour for hour.
The student receives tutoring.
(09:28):
They get paid.
In this model, only $450 isgoing to base payment.
That's insane.
But we had to really talk about,through this process, like what
is important to us, like whatis it when we think about
student achievement, what isimportant to us?
And so we identified fouroutcomes that are all tied to
(09:50):
payment for these vendors.
First one, mid-level growth, soa student hitting 51 to 65
percent conditional growth andNWEA.
High-level growth for 66 plusconditional growth.
We're focusing on a phonicsproficiency and we're focusing
on reading fluency and usingDIBELS and the BPST.
(10:12):
We're currently in the middleof the RFP process.
We actually just finishedscoring proposals this week and
have been working withpurchasing to get the final
recommendations up for boardapproval on September 26th.
So we're really excited.
We're.
.
.
and implementation for thesetutoring services is going to
start pretty soon after that.
Bianca Barquin (10:33):
Pretty amazing.
So I go back to thethoughtfulness behind this whole
process.
In order for us to be able tointeract when we're thinking
about OBC with contractors,we're going to have to take this
integrated approach right,where you bring all of these
folks to the table (10:50):
Research and Evaluation, other folks,
Teaching and Learning, everybodyto the table to try to figure
out what the outcomes are thatwe want to achieve, and
learner-centered.
So thank you for that, whichleads me to my next question for
you.
Research has indicated thatoutcomes-based models can be
(11:10):
more focused on the needs of thestudents.
How do you perceive thisalignment and what tangible
benefits can our students expectfrom this?
Jennifer Cisneros (11:19):
Yeah, student needs are rooted in a more
personalized and student-centricapproach in an OBC model.
For consistency, we'll continuewith tutoring.
It's our original example.
It's what we're doing as adistrict to kind of pioneer this
concept.
By having specific studentoutcomes, the vendors can
(11:39):
identify individual learningplans that will help students
achieve those outcomes.
So it's being really clear andreally focused so that
personalization can happen.
If done well and vendors alignwith the district, the tangible
benefits are great.
One, there's clear expectationsfor students in their learning.
Two, there's increased SELcompetencies in areas like
(12:00):
student agency, increasedmotivation and engagement, just
to name a few.
Bianca Barquin (12:06):
Thank you.
The next area I want to getinto is really based on what we
experienced at last night'sboard meeting Really listening
to Ron Hacker talk to us aboutour budget.
So let's talk a little bitabout fiscal responsibility.
One of the highlights of thisapproach is fiscal prudence.
Can you elaborate on how thiscontracting method ensures we
(12:29):
get the best value for ourinvestments and how it
guarantees accountability fromour partners?
Jennifer Cisneros (12:35):
Yeah, OBC is a partnership approach that
really focuses on achieving, aswe said, the specific results
rather than just delivering theservice.
One of the key advantages whichreally drew us to this model is
its potential for fiscalresponsibility and
accountability.
So, for example, there is anemphasis on results.
(12:59):
I feel like I'm gonna beat thatin, you know, through this
process, but the vendor isliterally incentivized to
deliver the desired outcomesboth efficiently and effectively
.
Otherwise they literally won'tbe paid.
Another example is the outcomesare clearly defined and
measurable at the forefront, sothere's a lot of clarity about
(13:20):
what's expected.
That allows us to build inregular systems to monitor and
evaluate the services anddetermine like is the vendor on
track to achieve the intendedtargets?
One thing about OBC that needsto kind of be said is there is
risk sharing, so there is someaccountability on the district.
(13:40):
I know in the conversation thatwe're having, it seems like all
the responsibility and the riskis on the vendor.
There is some mechanisms, thatis a shared risk between both
contracting parties, but thisdoes also encourage, because the
risk is there, it encouragesthe vendor to be more
responsible for theirperformance and take
responsibility for theirperformance, and there's an
(14:03):
inherent focus and value.
So it shifts us away from thefocus on outputs to the actual
value that's created for ourstudents, going back to being
centered on students, and whatare the outcomes?
This ensures that ourinvestment in tutoring is
aligned, ultimately, with thegoals of the district.
And the last thing, OBCencourages vendors to focus on
(14:25):
the quality of their service.
A lot of times it's aboutmeeting the contractual
obligations, and here thecontractual obligations are the
outcomes, and so it reallyforces them actually to focus on
quality for long-term successand sustainability.
When we think about all thefunding that has been pushed and
you alluded to it last night inthe board meeting, we talked a
(14:45):
lot about the pandemic all thefunding that came to districts
as a result of the pandemic, anda lot of it has expiration
dates.
Some have already expired.
And so we really have to thinklike student needs are still
gonna continue beyond the lifecycle of the funding and we have
to think differently.
We have to think differently.
We have to think about how tostretch our dollars to have the
(15:07):
most impact on students, and OBCis one way for us to do that.
Bianca Barquin (15:13):
I love it.
I really do think that thisprocess or way of operating is
so thoughtful on both sides, onthe district side as well as our
partners.
So now let me ask you aboutmeasuring success.
With an outcomes focus,measurement and evaluation are
paramount.
What mechanisms or metrics arewe employing to ensure that
(15:36):
we're on the right track?
Jennifer Cisneros (15:39):
First and foremost, Research and
Evaluation must be a part of theprocess.
Additionally, us ExpandedLearning folks like we are not
the Teaching and Learningexperts.
We are very, very upfront aboutthat.
So TNL also has to be involvedin the process.
In collaborating with DianaTorres, our Executive Director
(16:01):
for Teaching and Learning, shereally helped our team
understand what was mostimportant, based on the data
that Research and Eval provided,but from a student learning
perspective, and so that reallyhelped us go through the process
and determine what our outcomemetric should be.
Dr.
Emily Wolk was reallyinstrumental in helping us
(16:22):
determine ways to leveragecurrent data collection systems,
like, we didn't want to createnew things to start to measure
and add.
So metrics are really groundedin already existing data systems
and collection processes, andthe way we're assessing student
achievement.
And so things like the MAP youknow, is tied.
Conditional percentile growthis tied to MAP assessments,
(16:43):
which is already embedded in ourassessment calendar.
We have DIBELS that's alreadyembedded in there, the BPST, so.
But another metric, somethingthat's really interesting that
we are paying attention to wedidn't really tie it to payment
outcome, although we have seensome models in other county
offices that are dabbling inthis work is really looking at
(17:05):
SEL data and what the impact isto a student's SEL competencies
as they start to feel moresuccessful, as they start to hit
achievement goals.
So do we see changes in howstudents respond to SEL survey
data in relation to, like,self-efficacy or agency based on
them going through tutoring?
We're going to be payingattention to that.
Dr.
(17:26):
Wolk and I have had a lot ofconversations.
Right now it's we're calling itkind of a process outcome, so
it's something we're justlooking at and, truthfully, it
could be something that we talkabout adding in as a payment
outcome in the future, so thatthere's an expectation that
there is an SEL outcome tied totutoring services.
Bianca Barquin (17:47):
What I love about this is all of the
outcomes and all of the metricsthat you're mentioning, even the
process ones that we're talkingabout are all things that align
to our Graduate Profile and aregoing to help us actualize the
Graduate Profile, one, but two,they are all aligned with our
high board priority metrics,right, and everything we talked
(18:08):
to the board about.
So perfect alignment.
Now, every innovative approachcomes with its challenges.
What are some potentialroadblocks you foresee and how
are we prepared to address them?
Jennifer Cisneros (18:21):
Yeah, we were initially really nervous that
we would release this OBCtutoring RFP (Request for
Proposal) and we wouldn't getany proposals or responses that
it was going to be tooinnovative, it was going to be
too much of a risk for vendorsto try to throw their name in
(18:42):
the hat, but they did.
They did, they came out.
We had 20 responses to our OBCRFP for ELA tutoring and really,
as we kind of reflect, Dr.
Wolk and I, we've been on thisjourney together for a really
long time, even pre-pandemic.
We think that it's reallybecause it was clear, like,
(19:03):
people knew what they weregetting into, and we also think
that it's attracting vendors whotruly believe that they can
help students achieve outcomes.
Now, a potential roadblock isreally getting or ensuring that
the students are going to showup.
So, as we've gone through thisprocess and have been part of
the cohorts and have learnedfrom Cohort One, we know a
(19:24):
handful of districts nationallythat are doing this type of work
and all of them are pushingtheir tutoring models into the
school day.
We are focusing ourimplementation after school,
which requires us to findcreative ways to incentivize
students to attend.
I am not above bribing studentsfor their own good.
We're trying to find ways toleverage parents and their
(19:45):
guardians to ensure that kidsattend, etc.
You know, if a student alreadyis having low self-agency, them
seeking out or accessing atutoring services is not highly
likely.
And so we really have to findways to motivate students to
participate, you know, oncethey're identified as part of
(20:07):
the target group.
One of the things we are goingto be doing is we will be asking
site administrators for supportin these efforts and seeking
their expertise on how tomitigate this issue and these
challenge and other potentialchallenges that are going to
come up.
In previous implementationtutoring efforts that we've had,
you know, some of the thingsthat we've discovered that are
(20:27):
really key learnings for us is,one, there has to be a shared,
continuous recruitment andcommunication effort with the
site administration, withteachers, our own expanded
learning staff.
There has to be a collectiveappreciation of the importance
of high-impact tutoring.
We need an incentive plan forstudents that is integrated
(20:48):
maybe with some of the schoolday; there's some school day
incentives and afterschoolincentives.
So really workingcollaboratively to figure out
how do we build that plan.
And then we have to worktogether with the school
community to figure out how dowe really actively engage and
involve our parents andguardians and understanding the
importance of and the benefitsthat their children can gain
(21:09):
from participating in ourtutoring program.
You know, while we are leaninginto these areas, we are
planning for implementation ofOBC tutoring.
If anyone has any good ideasthat they want to add, like
reach out, Everyone should knowhow to get a hold of me.
If not, you know we can figurethat out.
But part of the OBC approachdoes include an adoption of a
(21:29):
continuous quality improvementmindset.
So as we hit bumps in the road,which we will, we anticipate
that, we will be looking at howto improve and tweak things in
the future, and so feedback willbe really critical throughout
the process.
This is new for all of us.
Part of our responsibility, wehave responsibilities to the
vendors and, like I said,there's shared risk-taking and
so there are some things we haveto do and make sure happen in
(21:53):
conditions we have to create.
So we'll have to work throughall those logistics.
Bianca Barquin (21:58):
So the resounding theme that I kept
hearing as you're answering thequestion is collective impact,
right?
And going back to that risksharing and what is our role and
responsibility in this newapproach?
The other partner I think wecan bring to the table within
our own system is family andcommunity engagement, and seeing
what Lisa and her team can doto support our efforts.
(22:20):
I think this is amazing.
Last question I have for you,Jennifer: as we embrace this new
approach, what are your hopesand visions for the future of
the expanded learning program inSAUSD?
Jennifer Cisneros (22:32):
Yeah.
So in relation to OBC, thisconcept in this model, my hope
is that the expanded learningdepartment will set the tone for
how effective and impactfulthis model can really be, so
that we can expand it into otherdepartments at the school sites
within our district.
Whether it's ed- tech contracts, whether it's contracts on the
(22:56):
admin services sides, itliterally can live anywhere.
This is not a model that isnot, you know, we've been using
tutoring as the examplethroughout our time together,
but it is not unique to justtutoring.
As we branch out, we can branchthis out into other contract
opportunities.
We can really focus on what'simportant to us and how to
(23:17):
maximize our dollars to reachthe most students and have the
greatest impact.
Bianca Barquin (23:21):
Amazing.
Before we sign off, it's timefor our amplifier
acknowledgement segment.
Jennifer, if you could amplifythe message or lesson from one
educator or leader, who's made asignificant impact in your
journey, who would it be andwhat is that resonating message?
Jennifer Cisneros (23:40):
Yeah, so I was a very young leader and my
journey was really has startedwith a manager mindset.
Like I think you know, we, Ithink we all had an image of
what leadership looks like andreally at that time when I was
younger and growing and reallylearning, I see now I was more
of a manager mindset.
(24:03):
But my old CEO, I worked for theBoys and Girls Club and,
interestingly enough, I was aclub kid who turned summer staff
, volunteer summer staff and,like I grew up with this
organization and all throughoutthat time Pat Halberstadt, was
our CEO and I got to know her invarious levels, from a kid to,
you know, a growing professional, and eventually served on her
(24:25):
executive leadership team.
And one of the things that justreally stuck with me about her
and what she really taught mewas that people are people first
and that the way to truly leadwas through relationships and
empathy.
And through those lessons iswhen I really started to shift
(24:46):
from a manager mindset to aleader mindset and that it's
really about people and howwe're guiding people to where
they want to be and investing inthem as individuals.
So she's somebody who has stuckwith me for a long time and
even though I left theorganization, she's still always
with me.
Bianca Barquin (25:04):
That is evident in every single interaction that
I have with you, Jennifer, s othank you.
Your insights today have beennothing short of enlightening.
It's evident that SAUSD is onthe cusp of a transformative
journey and we're all eager towitness the ripple effects of
these changes on our studentslives.
To our listeners, as we amplifyleadership and innovation,
(25:28):
let's remember that at the heartof every decision, every
strategy, is our undyingcommitment to our students.
Thank you for joining us onSAUSD's Amplifying Leadership
and, until the next time, keepleading, keep innovating and
keep amplifying.
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