May 23, 2023 • 22 mins
EPISODE SUMMARY
Webinars play a pivotal role in modern software sales funnels, offering entrepreneurs and SaaS sales professionals a powerful tool for connecting with potential customers. Whether through live or pre-recorded webinars, the key is to provide valuable and engaging content that educates, inspires, and persuades viewers.
That’s why in this week’s episode of Scale Your SaaS, eWebinar co-founder and CEO Melissa Kwan graced the show to share why embracing webinars as an integral part of your software sales strategy can accelerate your business growth and achieve more tremendous success in today's competitive market with host and B2B SaaS Sales Coach Matt Wolach. Read on to find out more.
PODCAST-AT-A-GLANCE
Podcast: Scale Your SaaS with Matt Wolach
Episode: Episode No. 265, "How to Win Deals with a Webinar - with Melissa Kwan"
Host: Matt Wolach, a B2B SaaS sales coach, Entrepreneur, and Investor
Guest: Melissa Kwan, eWebinar co-founder and CEO
TOP TIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
- Embrace the Learning Journey of an Entrepreneur
- Recognize the Shift in Sales Approaches
- Utilize Webinars as Top-of-Funnel Assets
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
- Leverage Automated Webinars
- Avoid Pretense: Be Transparent and Engaging
- Disqualify Prospects Effectively
- Expand Your Reach with Automated Webinars
TOP QUOTES
Melissa Kwan
[17:49] "When you're automating something, you're actually selling to someone without ever talking to them. You need them to convert and take action on their own. And that's a very different way of coming up with a sales pitch. And in order to come up with that script, you have to know all the potential objections and address them upfront and work them into your scripts. Otherwise, that person is not going to convert, right."
[19:57] “If you are either doing it to win a customer or doing it to keep a customer because when you're a bootstrap company, you have so few resources. And it feels like you have to do everything and be on every channel and create every piece of content and be on every podcast and, and get feature parity with all your competitors. But only a fraction of those decisions will help you win someone, or keep someone and then add to your revenue so you can do more things.”
Matt Wolach
[09:36] "Sales reps are territorial. The demo is more than just showing the product."
[14:18] "It's so appealing, especially for people who are running small teams and trying to do a bunch of different things at once. But what do you say to people who might feel weird about making a pre-recorded webinar look real? And I think it's amazing the technology, people jump in and it feels like they're in a live webinar."
LEARN MORE
To learn more about eWebinar, visit:
https://ewebinar.com/
You can also find Melissa Kwan on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissakwan/
For more about how host Matt Wolach helps software companies achieve maximum growth, visit https://mattwolach.com/
Get even more tips by following Matt elsewhere:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Wolach (00:10):
One of the best ways to get leads and get people
closed is a webinar. Now itdepends what your price point is
on if it works for closing, orif it works for driving leads,
but it's very important tounderstand how a webinar can
impact your funnel I had MelissaKwan on she's the CEO of
eWebinars, they're doing somereally cool stuff with an
amazing tool that you definitelyhave to check out. But it's
(00:30):
really important to understandhow a webinar can fit within
your entire marketing strategy.
She goes through some tips goesthrough some cool tactics and
how you can make it absolutelypowerful for you definitely
check this out.
Intro/ Outro (00:44):
Welcome to Scale Your SaaS, the podcast that
gives you proven techniques andformulas for boosting your
revenue and achieving your dreamexit brought to you by a guy
who's done just that multipletimes. Here's your host, Matt
Wolach.
Matt Wolach (01:00):
Hello, welcome to Scale Your SaaS, thank you very
much for being here. So gladthat you are here to focus on
growing your business. Andthat's what we're going to do.
We want to show you how to growyour software company, whether
it's better marketing, whetherit's better sales, understanding
how to grow your team, that'swhat we're focused on. And
today, we're focused onwebinars. I am so excited to
(01:21):
have Melissa Kwan with us. Sheis joining live from Amsterdam,
a city that she is lovingpartying, and she just told me
beforehand, I love that it's socool. But let me tell everybody
who you are Melissa. So Melissais the co founder and CEO of
eWebinar three times abootstrapper. She's now growing
your webinar, which is theleading automated webinar
solution that helps companiesrun hundreds of engaging
(01:42):
webinars without being therelive. It's really cool what
they're doing and, and making itreally easy for people to kind
of get the word out more withouthaving to put in more work. So
what's going on with you lately?
And what's coming up?
Melissa Kwan (01:55):
Yeah, okay. That's a that's a big question. What's
going on lately? I feel like I'mI don't know, I feel like so
this is my first product leadstartup, my previous one was an
enterprise. So actually, mybackground is in enterprise
sales. And then coming into thisone having to learn everything,
but sales, but more marketing.
You know, I've been doing thisfor four years now. It just
(02:15):
everyday just feels new. Like itwill so when someone asked me a
question like that, it justalways feels like we're
starting. But you know, we're,you know, our products been
around for two and a half yearsnow. We're actually very close
to profitability at this pointas as we speak. So something
that's exciting.
Matt Wolach (02:34):
Yeah, so cool. I love that that pivot point when
you finally hit that, and youstart really taking off? No, I
love the fact that you saidyou're learning. And I think
that's what it is about being anentrepreneur. That's one of the
things I love about it. I've hadseveral like you entrepreneurial
journeys, and it's so cool, howmuch you learn each time you
kind of feel like, Oh, I get itnow. Oh, I understand this. And
then also in here's a whole newthing. So I mean, to go from
(02:56):
enterprise sales to product leadis a shift for sure. How has
that shift been? For you?
Melissa Kwan (03:02):
It really interesting question, because I
love that you brought that up,because I didn't know that was a
shift. So we're talking abouttelling stories, right? Before
we hit record, this is a story Iwas, you know, I was running my
previous two companies, youknow, both in real estate tech,
completely different industry.
But you know, one on one sales,lead founder led sales, large,
only selling to largeenterprises. And I came into
(03:24):
this thinking, I've done itbefore, like, totally know what
I'm doing. And this one's gonnabe super easy. So then I came
into this company, and just togive people context is the
starting point of our product,the price starting point is 99
bucks. So I thought that I couldbuild this company exactly how I
built my previous companies.
(03:46):
And, you know, while it startedthat way, like on like one on
one outreach, and things likethat, like very quickly, I
probably within six to ninemonths of starting this company,
I exhausted my immediate networkand maybe like one degree
removed. And then I'm like,Okay, well, now what, and I had
to learn that at this pricepoint of a product, not only
(04:07):
does you know, sales lead notmake sense, from a financial
perspective, people don't getback to you because that's just
not how they buy $100 product,why would they talk to a sales
rep for $100 product and we justgo to your site. And all of that
was like a big revelation, veryhard truth that I had to learn
(04:27):
probably like a year into theproduct being live like we've
only been live for two and ahalf years. So that was when I
had to just do some research tosee like, what are other
companies that are you know, inour space doing and around the
same price point and how canlike, what do I need to do now
to you know, to drive thisbusiness and these are all
things that I've never donebefore like, the whole like
(04:49):
posting on LinkedIn once a daylike that was new, like building
community building an audience,SEO content, different kinds of
content, getting customertestimonials, like building on
templates on our site, like allI was new. So it just feels like
I'm always doing something butnot enough.
Matt Wolach (05:06):
I totally understand. It's funny how the
actions that we need to take aretotally different because I've
gone through that same processas well figuring out oh, what I
did before, not working. And infact, a lot of my clients come
to me and say, Hey, Matt, howcome this sales rep isn't doing
well, for us, we hired them,because they had amazing
experience at this and this, andI look at it, and it's a totally
(05:27):
different type of sale, eitherthe sales rep was doing big
enterprise, and they're more ofa small medium, or vice versa.
It's like you hire somebody whohas a completely different skill
set than what you actually need.
There's the same thing with usas the leaders, right? We, we've
kind of grown into what we need.
And now we need somethingdifferent with a new company and
a new target new market. So Ilove that you went through that.
(05:48):
But I want to understand, why isa webinar a great part of a of a
funnel for a software company?
Why is that something thatpeople should consider?
Melissa Kwan (05:58):
Because nobody wants to talk to salespeople
anymore?
Matt Wolach (06:02):
I would think at certain price points.
Melissa Kwan (06:03):
Like I mean, yeah, it's definitely a price point
thing, right? I think, you know,if you're selling bigger
contracts, like you want toknow, there's a person on the
other side, and you know, thatwhen you're buying something,
there's probably a bit of likecustomer requirements, you know,
like whether it's an SSL orconnecting to your database,
like something that I wantsomeone there understanding
those requirements, but mostlywhen people are doing, you know,
(06:24):
research on, you know, productsthat are cheaper, like lower
price point, they don't want totalk to a salesperson, I want to
do research on my own until I'mready to buy, then maybe I want
to know that there's someone onthe other side. So the best way
to give someone who's a buyerwho's researching the
information that they need tomake a decision is to get them
(06:47):
in a demo. But if I want torequest a demo, and your
product, lead sales company, andI have to fill an account, I
have to fill in a form and thenI get a calendar link to book a
time. That's no longer productlead, right? That's more sales
lead. But you're also you know,taking a lot of your time doing
demos for people that aren'tgoing to buy as well. So like
when I say webinar, or when wesay webinar in this context,
(07:09):
it's also like doing one on onedemos, it doesn't have to be one
too many, sometimes it's one toone. But it's, you know, a
digital presentation. So Iactually think a webinar, like a
self serve demo is the like thenumber one asset that you can
leverage to get people kind oftop of funnel, and then move
(07:29):
them down that funnel, whetherit's, you know, sign up on your
own, if it's $100 product, orbook a call with my sales team.
Matt Wolach (07:35):
I totally agree.
And I think that's somethingthat a lot of people struggle
with you they're a high pricepoint. And they think that
they're going to get people tosign up on a webinar and get get
closed, or they're a low pricepoint. And they're trying to get
people to book a demo, I thinkit's good to understand what's
right for you a webinar can workin both instances, it's just a
matter of what's the call toaction, what's the next step
following. And figuring that outis very important. Because if
(07:56):
you do it wrong, you couldoverplay your hand. And it's not
gonna go well.
Melissa Kwan (08:01):
But But I want to touch on that a little bit,
right, because I think thatsalespeople and being a
salesperson, I feel like I cansay this, is they're so
territorial, right? They, they,they, they always think, well,
if I don't talk to this, myprospect, they're not going to
get it. And I must own thisprospect. I can't, I can't give
(08:22):
them all this information, Ihave to gate this information,
they can only come to me andthen I'll give it to them. But
that's not a great buyingexperience for the consumer that
we are today. So even if you'reselling higher price point, you
can have a digital presentation,a webinar that people can go
into on their own, you don'thave to share your product at
(08:42):
all. Your demo can simply bethis is what my company does.
Here's how we're different. Thisis how we serve our customers.
Here's a couple testimonials,this is a couple, these are a
couple of screenshots of whatour product does here, the
differentiating factors. If thisis interesting for you, book a
call on my calendar, you don'thave to like people think a demo
has to be a product demo. But itdoesn't have to be that it's an
(09:06):
introduction of why you'redifferent and how you're going
to serve them. So I think ifeven if you're selling
enterprise, there is a way todeliver that first demo the
first presentation in a way thatpiques the customer's interests,
so that they will book a callwith you and not your
competitor. And so I wouldencourage people listening to
this to think about how webinarscan and you know, how these
(09:30):
kinds of self serve demos canhelp their role in in a much
bigger way. Like how can thisasset help me cast a much wider
net, so that my salespeople canbe way more efficient and
effective with their time sothat the leads that are coming
in are actually educated? Sothat when they come in, they're
asking clarifying questions.
You're not doing that whole samepitch, you know that that's a
(09:51):
whole same pitch for the first20 minutes and wasting that time
that you have that you could bedoing it.
Matt Wolach (09:57):
Yeah, I love it.
There's a lot of great stuff wecan unpack there. and things
that I'm really you're preachingto the choir here, Melissa,
first of all, with sales repsbeing territorial, yes, they
are. And sometimes as leaders,we kind of feel beholden to
them, we have to kind of caterto what the rep wants. But
instead, we need to think aboutwhat's best for the market,
what's best for the targetprospect? And how are they going
to get, like you said, educatedenough so that they feel like
(10:18):
this is the answer. This is thetool for them and not something
else. I actually today, theYouTube video that we're
releasing on our YouTubechannel, is talking about how
the demo is much more than thedemo. And you kind of set it
there. A lot of people think,Oh, I just need to like show our
product, right? Well, no,there's so many other things
(10:39):
that you need to do in thatconversation, including
discovery, connecting with yourbuyer, educating them, making
sure that they understand youknow what you're talking about
getting them to follow you andyou take charge, so many other
things that are actually moreimpactful than just showing your
product that can deliver muchbetter results. And in fact, I
have clients and I'm thinking ofone of them in particular, Greg,
(11:00):
he says his clients are 90%closed before they ever see the
product, because he discoversthem so well. He understands
what they're going through, theyunderstand he gets them, he
shares a few stories about howother people have solved the
same problems that they aresolving using the product. And
people just basically need toknow that there is something
there that works, and thenthey're good to go. So I totally
(11:21):
agree with you. I think it'sreally powerful when you
understand that, that demopiece, the showing of it maybe
isn't as big as as what youactually thought. And there's
other ways to be able to getpeople excited and connected
with your brand and wanting whatyou have. Right. Yeah,
Melissa Kwan (11:39):
I mean, I would also say that, like, as we're
talking on the topic of moreenterprise sales and larger,
larger ticket items, when you'reputting out that first, like top
a funnel piece of content likethat demo, you're also giving
the prospect an opportunity todisqualify themselves. And
that's why I say salespeople canget much better leads, if you're
(12:00):
just willing to like,democratize some information and
not feel like well, mysalespeople have to talk to
every single lead. Not everysingle lead deserves the same
attention. Right, it is sodisheartening for a salesperson
to hop on a call within thefirst few minutes realizing
that's not a great customer. ButI still have to go through the
next 20 minutes. Because they'reon the phone. I can't just hang
(12:21):
up. I think we've all beenthere. So that's where I think
an asset like an automated demoautomated webinar can help you
actually not only cast a such awider net, but help You
disqualify people that actuallydon't need a conversation. I
Matt Wolach (12:35):
totally agree. I want to ask you, what do you
think? And I want to make sureeverybody understands, what is
the difference between a livewebinar and a pre recorded
webinar? And should we use both?
Should we only use one? How'sthat work?
Melissa Kwan (12:46):
Yeah, so a live webinar, everybody, you know,
uses them in, I think, in someaspects in their business. So it
could be, you know, a one tomany webinar where you're doing,
you know, a training andonboarding, for example, like
somebody signs up to your, toyour products. There's a demo
next Thursday at 11. Some peoplejoin, some people don't show up.
That's one form of a webinar.
But another could just be one onone, like, like, we're talking
(13:07):
about one on one demos where Iwant a demo of your product,
let's book a call, let's helpI'm not but there's a live video
live audio component where youknow, you're talking to someone
on the other side. webinarautomation is where we turn a
video, like your your bestrecorded pitch, and deliver it
like a webinar. So people stillschedule time, they still get
(13:28):
reminders and follow ups. Butwhen they're watching the
webinar at that given time, thevideo is not a live stream, it
is actually a video. But for asoftware like ours, you've also
have you still have a chatcomponent where people can ask
questions you can I can hop intorespond live if I'm there, but I
if I'm not there, and I respondlater, they actually get an
(13:49):
email response, very similar tolike any kind of pop up chat bot
on any website. But we for us,we actually take that one step
further, where you can programin things like, you know, polls,
questions, contact forms,calendar links, within the
experience itself to make itmore engaging and more
interactive. And you can use itto deliver more information, but
also get more information. Soyou're actually able to do that
(14:12):
discovery, through thoseinteractions that you program
without needing to ask questionslive and actually being there.
So those are the twodifferentiating factors. And the
live of course, only happensonce in a while. It's dependent
on your schedule, or as anautomated webinar can literally
happen. 24/7 and, you know, sellyour product in your sleep.
Matt Wolach (14:33):
Yeah, I love that.
It's so appealing, especiallyfor people who are running small
teams and trying to do a bunchof different things at once. But
what do you say to people whomight feel weird about making a
pre recorded webinar look real?
And I think it's amazing thetechnology, people jump in and
it feels like they're in a livewebinar. There's chat happening,
they can chat. What about and bythe way, I have one of those so
(14:55):
I'm totally okay with it. Butwhy do some people feel weird
about it, and what should we sayto
Melissa Kwan (14:59):
them. So I think there anyone that knows or have
seen Automated Webinarssolutions before us or maybe
have hopped into one, they mayhave experienced what I
experienced in the past, whichis people pretending they're
alive when they're not. I thinkthat's where the problem is. And
that's why people feel weirdabout it. It's like, well, I
(15:21):
might tricking someone, like,just because the video is
recorded doesn't mean you haveto trick someone to think it's
live. Like, we encourage ourcustomers to tell people this is
recorded, but I'm imagining thechat, like people know that at
3am, your timezone that there'snot like 300 people joining and
you're not on the other side.
Right. So we actually, at leastin our software, I can't speak
for other people. But weactively don't build features
(15:43):
that make like that, that createfalse scarcity. And also like,
you know, fake counters, andlike fake chats and stuff like
that. So we actually want todeliver an experience that is
beautiful, that's professional,but also has integrity. So
that's what I would say to thosepeople is like, if you have a
preconceived notion of what anautomated webinar is, it might
(16:06):
be because you were in one ofthose before where you are
tricked to believe this is livewhen it's not, but that's not
what the experience we'redelivering with E webinar,
right? Like, it's almost like, Iwould say, for people to think
like, who might think who mightfeel weird about it, like,
equate this to Netflix, right?
People expect to watch videos ondemand now, because of how
(16:28):
Netflix has actually changed ourexpectation. This is the one
reason why the attendance ratefor live webinars is so low,
everybody wants to have theirwebinar at you know, next
Tuesday at 11. But I've gotother things to do. Right, I'm
at work, I have to pick up mykids or you know, maybe I want
to sleep in that day, you know,whatever it might be, you can no
longer dictate. When someone isfree to watch your content. You
(16:52):
can only be there when they wantit. So, like, just think about
how I think consumer experiencesand how you want to consume
video today. And then give thatexperience to your prospect in
your
Matt Wolach (17:05):
customer. That's great advice. Can you share any
tips for creating a successfuland engaging webinar?
Melissa Kwan (17:10):
Yeah. I mean, I would say, Ron, I mean, this is
kind of counterintuitive to, towhat we do. But when you say
like tips I want to focus onlike, what about automation,
because that's where that'swhere my expertise is. I would
say run as many live webinarsand demos as it takes for you to
(17:33):
for you to figure out what yourbest pitches before you automate
it. Right? Because to sell tosomeone one on one is actually
not that hard. Right? I canreact to their objections live
in real time. Like, I can seeyour expression, and I can
change my pitch halfway. Sothat's actually not that hard.
(17:55):
Right? When you're automatingsomething, you're actually
selling to someone without evertalking to them. You need them
to convert and take action ontheir own. And that's a very
different way of coming up witha sales pitch. And in order to
come up with that script, youhave to know all the potential
objections and address themupfront and work them into your
(18:16):
scripts. Otherwise, thatperson's not going to convert,
right. So some of my customerswill come to me and say, Oh, I
ran this a few times peoplearen't buying this is not for
me. But they're not actuallylooking at the scripts, because
they're using the exact samescript that they would use in an
automated webinar versus a livepitch, which is very different.
(18:36):
Right? So my, my best advice asit relates to sales is do as
many demos as you can as manysales pitches as you can, until
that pitch gets robotic, andthen take that and create the
best sales pitch ever. And thenautomate that and let that work
for you.
Matt Wolach (18:53):
I mean, it's kind of like we hear about stand up
comedians, right stand the beststand up comedians, go to like
some tiny little club andpractice all their stuff, before
they go on their Netflixspecial, and it's recorded. And
that's what's going to be thereforever. So it's kind of the
same deal, like, get those repsand make sure you understand
what people react to what theylike what works, what gets
(19:14):
people to take action, and thenput it together into your final
awesome big stand up special,which is your your eat webinar.
So I love all this advice. It'sfantastic. And I'm actually
thinking what we can do to goimplement. But I want to ask you
with your own company, you'vebeen able to start and grow this
company has become successful.
Listen, I'm loving your ownstory. What tips from your own,
you know, growing of thiscompany and making these changes
(19:38):
that you've talked about? Whattips would you give to others
who are just getting started andwanting their company to become
successful as well?
Melissa Kwan (19:46):
So I'm a bootstrap company. Very, very different
than how a VC back company wouldrun. But I would say the best
tip that I have is make sureAbout every decision that you
make, you are either doing it towin a customer, or doing it to
(20:08):
keep a customer. Because whenyou're a bootstrap company, you
have so little resources. And itfeels like you have to do
everything and be on everychannel and create every piece
of content and be on everypodcast and, and get feature
parity with all yourcompetitors. But only a fraction
of those decisions will help youwin someone, or keep someone and
(20:28):
then add to your revenue. So youcan do more things. So I think
that's the best advice is like,with every decision that you
make, just ask yourself, like,how is this adding to my
business? And if it's not, thatthing can probably be pushed.
Matt Wolach (20:42):
I love it.
fantastic advice. And I thinkthat's something that even
myself I get kind of sidetrackedon but if we just think about
hey, is this going to help usgrow as it helps gonna keep
people? Amazing advice, Melissa,this has been awesome. And time
has gone super fast. I've reallyenjoyed it. How can our audience
learn more about you and yourwebinar?
Melissa Kwan (20:59):
Yeah. So if you're curious about your webinar on
how it can help you or yourbusiness, just go to E
webinar.com. exactly as itsounds, e webinar.com. There's a
demo, of course, self served,delivered through our own
product in a very meta way. Imanaged to chat. So if you have
questions, you can type to methere. And I'm also on LinkedIn.
So last name is spelt Quan kW.
And we'll
Matt Wolach (21:21):
put all that into the show notes. I'm gonna go
check that out myself. I mightget into your funnel and see how
things are running. It lookscool. Well, awesome. Melissa,
this has been a lot of fun.
Thanks so much for coming on theshow and sharing your wisdom.
Oh, thanks so much. Absolutely.
Everybody out there. Thank youfor being here as well. Make
sure you're subscribed to theshow. Hit that subscribe button
right now. Also, we're lookingfor reviews. If you have a good
review, if you're thinking wow,this is great. Go ahead and put
(21:42):
that in there. That'll reallyhelp us understand we're giving
you the right information withawesome great innovators and
leaders like Melissa. So thankyou for being here, and we'll
see you next time. Take care.
Intro/ Outro (21:54):
Thanks for listening to Scale Your SaaS for
more help on finding great leadsand closing more deals. Go to
Mattwolach.com
One of the best ways to get leads and get people
closed is a webinar. Now itdepends what your price point is
on if it works for closing, orif it works for driving leads,
but it's very important tounderstand how a webinar can
impact your funnel I had MelissaKwan on she's the CEO of
eWebinars, they're doing somereally cool stuff with an
amazing tool that you definitelyhave to check out. But it's
(00:30):
really important to understandhow a webinar can fit within
your entire marketing strategy.
She goes through some tips goesthrough some cool tactics and
how you can make it absolutelypowerful for you definitely
check this out.
Intro/ Outro (00:44):
Welcome to Scale Your SaaS, the podcast that
gives you proven techniques andformulas for boosting your
revenue and achieving your dreamexit brought to you by a guy
who's done just that multipletimes. Here's your host, Matt
Wolach.
Matt Wolach (01:00):
Hello, welcome to Scale Your SaaS, thank you very
much for being here. So gladthat you are here to focus on
growing your business. Andthat's what we're going to do.
We want to show you how to growyour software company, whether
it's better marketing, whetherit's better sales, understanding
how to grow your team, that'swhat we're focused on. And
today, we're focused onwebinars. I am so excited to
(01:21):
have Melissa Kwan with us. Sheis joining live from Amsterdam,
a city that she is lovingpartying, and she just told me
beforehand, I love that it's socool. But let me tell everybody
who you are Melissa. So Melissais the co founder and CEO of
eWebinar three times abootstrapper. She's now growing
your webinar, which is theleading automated webinar
solution that helps companiesrun hundreds of engaging
(01:42):
webinars without being therelive. It's really cool what
they're doing and, and making itreally easy for people to kind
of get the word out more withouthaving to put in more work. So
what's going on with you lately?
And what's coming up?
Melissa Kwan (01:55):
Yeah, okay. That's a that's a big question. What's
going on lately? I feel like I'mI don't know, I feel like so
this is my first product leadstartup, my previous one was an
enterprise. So actually, mybackground is in enterprise
sales. And then coming into thisone having to learn everything,
but sales, but more marketing.
You know, I've been doing thisfor four years now. It just
(02:15):
everyday just feels new. Like itwill so when someone asked me a
question like that, it justalways feels like we're
starting. But you know, we're,you know, our products been
around for two and a half yearsnow. We're actually very close
to profitability at this pointas as we speak. So something
that's exciting.
Matt Wolach (02:34):
Yeah, so cool. I love that that pivot point when
you finally hit that, and youstart really taking off? No, I
love the fact that you saidyou're learning. And I think
that's what it is about being anentrepreneur. That's one of the
things I love about it. I've hadseveral like you entrepreneurial
journeys, and it's so cool, howmuch you learn each time you
kind of feel like, Oh, I get itnow. Oh, I understand this. And
then also in here's a whole newthing. So I mean, to go from
(02:56):
enterprise sales to product leadis a shift for sure. How has
that shift been? For you?
Melissa Kwan (03:02):
It really interesting question, because I
love that you brought that up,because I didn't know that was a
shift. So we're talking abouttelling stories, right? Before
we hit record, this is a story Iwas, you know, I was running my
previous two companies, youknow, both in real estate tech,
completely different industry.
But you know, one on one sales,lead founder led sales, large,
only selling to largeenterprises. And I came into
(03:24):
this thinking, I've done itbefore, like, totally know what
I'm doing. And this one's gonnabe super easy. So then I came
into this company, and just togive people context is the
starting point of our product,the price starting point is 99
bucks. So I thought that I couldbuild this company exactly how I
built my previous companies.
(03:46):
And, you know, while it startedthat way, like on like one on
one outreach, and things likethat, like very quickly, I
probably within six to ninemonths of starting this company,
I exhausted my immediate networkand maybe like one degree
removed. And then I'm like,Okay, well, now what, and I had
to learn that at this pricepoint of a product, not only
(04:07):
does you know, sales lead notmake sense, from a financial
perspective, people don't getback to you because that's just
not how they buy $100 product,why would they talk to a sales
rep for $100 product and we justgo to your site. And all of that
was like a big revelation, veryhard truth that I had to learn
(04:27):
probably like a year into theproduct being live like we've
only been live for two and ahalf years. So that was when I
had to just do some research tosee like, what are other
companies that are you know, inour space doing and around the
same price point and how canlike, what do I need to do now
to you know, to drive thisbusiness and these are all
things that I've never donebefore like, the whole like
(04:49):
posting on LinkedIn once a daylike that was new, like building
community building an audience,SEO content, different kinds of
content, getting customertestimonials, like building on
templates on our site, like allI was new. So it just feels like
I'm always doing something butnot enough.
Matt Wolach (05:06):
I totally understand. It's funny how the
actions that we need to take aretotally different because I've
gone through that same processas well figuring out oh, what I
did before, not working. And infact, a lot of my clients come
to me and say, Hey, Matt, howcome this sales rep isn't doing
well, for us, we hired them,because they had amazing
experience at this and this, andI look at it, and it's a totally
(05:27):
different type of sale, eitherthe sales rep was doing big
enterprise, and they're more ofa small medium, or vice versa.
It's like you hire somebody whohas a completely different skill
set than what you actually need.
There's the same thing with usas the leaders, right? We, we've
kind of grown into what we need.
And now we need somethingdifferent with a new company and
a new target new market. So Ilove that you went through that.
(05:48):
But I want to understand, why isa webinar a great part of a of a
funnel for a software company?
Why is that something thatpeople should consider?
Melissa Kwan (05:58):
Because nobody wants to talk to salespeople
anymore?
Matt Wolach (06:02):
I would think at certain price points.
Melissa Kwan (06:03):
Like I mean, yeah, it's definitely a price point
thing, right? I think, you know,if you're selling bigger
contracts, like you want toknow, there's a person on the
other side, and you know, thatwhen you're buying something,
there's probably a bit of likecustomer requirements, you know,
like whether it's an SSL orconnecting to your database,
like something that I wantsomeone there understanding
those requirements, but mostlywhen people are doing, you know,
(06:24):
research on, you know, productsthat are cheaper, like lower
price point, they don't want totalk to a salesperson, I want to
do research on my own until I'mready to buy, then maybe I want
to know that there's someone onthe other side. So the best way
to give someone who's a buyerwho's researching the
information that they need tomake a decision is to get them
(06:47):
in a demo. But if I want torequest a demo, and your
product, lead sales company, andI have to fill an account, I
have to fill in a form and thenI get a calendar link to book a
time. That's no longer productlead, right? That's more sales
lead. But you're also you know,taking a lot of your time doing
demos for people that aren'tgoing to buy as well. So like
when I say webinar, or when wesay webinar in this context,
(07:09):
it's also like doing one on onedemos, it doesn't have to be one
too many, sometimes it's one toone. But it's, you know, a
digital presentation. So Iactually think a webinar, like a
self serve demo is the like thenumber one asset that you can
leverage to get people kind oftop of funnel, and then move
(07:29):
them down that funnel, whetherit's, you know, sign up on your
own, if it's $100 product, orbook a call with my sales team.
Matt Wolach (07:35):
I totally agree.
And I think that's somethingthat a lot of people struggle
with you they're a high pricepoint. And they think that
they're going to get people tosign up on a webinar and get get
closed, or they're a low pricepoint. And they're trying to get
people to book a demo, I thinkit's good to understand what's
right for you a webinar can workin both instances, it's just a
matter of what's the call toaction, what's the next step
following. And figuring that outis very important. Because if
(07:56):
you do it wrong, you couldoverplay your hand. And it's not
gonna go well.
Melissa Kwan (08:01):
But But I want to touch on that a little bit,
right, because I think thatsalespeople and being a
salesperson, I feel like I cansay this, is they're so
territorial, right? They, they,they, they always think, well,
if I don't talk to this, myprospect, they're not going to
get it. And I must own thisprospect. I can't, I can't give
(08:22):
them all this information, Ihave to gate this information,
they can only come to me andthen I'll give it to them. But
that's not a great buyingexperience for the consumer that
we are today. So even if you'reselling higher price point, you
can have a digital presentation,a webinar that people can go
into on their own, you don'thave to share your product at
(08:42):
all. Your demo can simply bethis is what my company does.
Here's how we're different. Thisis how we serve our customers.
Here's a couple testimonials,this is a couple, these are a
couple of screenshots of whatour product does here, the
differentiating factors. If thisis interesting for you, book a
call on my calendar, you don'thave to like people think a demo
has to be a product demo. But itdoesn't have to be that it's an
(09:06):
introduction of why you'redifferent and how you're going
to serve them. So I think ifeven if you're selling
enterprise, there is a way todeliver that first demo the
first presentation in a way thatpiques the customer's interests,
so that they will book a callwith you and not your
competitor. And so I wouldencourage people listening to
this to think about how webinarscan and you know, how these
(09:30):
kinds of self serve demos canhelp their role in in a much
bigger way. Like how can thisasset help me cast a much wider
net, so that my salespeople canbe way more efficient and
effective with their time sothat the leads that are coming
in are actually educated? Sothat when they come in, they're
asking clarifying questions.
You're not doing that whole samepitch, you know that that's a
(09:51):
whole same pitch for the first20 minutes and wasting that time
that you have that you could bedoing it.
Matt Wolach (09:57):
Yeah, I love it.
There's a lot of great stuff wecan unpack there. and things
that I'm really you're preachingto the choir here, Melissa,
first of all, with sales repsbeing territorial, yes, they
are. And sometimes as leaders,we kind of feel beholden to
them, we have to kind of caterto what the rep wants. But
instead, we need to think aboutwhat's best for the market,
what's best for the targetprospect? And how are they going
to get, like you said, educatedenough so that they feel like
(10:18):
this is the answer. This is thetool for them and not something
else. I actually today, theYouTube video that we're
releasing on our YouTubechannel, is talking about how
the demo is much more than thedemo. And you kind of set it
there. A lot of people think,Oh, I just need to like show our
product, right? Well, no,there's so many other things
(10:39):
that you need to do in thatconversation, including
discovery, connecting with yourbuyer, educating them, making
sure that they understand youknow what you're talking about
getting them to follow you andyou take charge, so many other
things that are actually moreimpactful than just showing your
product that can deliver muchbetter results. And in fact, I
have clients and I'm thinking ofone of them in particular, Greg,
(11:00):
he says his clients are 90%closed before they ever see the
product, because he discoversthem so well. He understands
what they're going through, theyunderstand he gets them, he
shares a few stories about howother people have solved the
same problems that they aresolving using the product. And
people just basically need toknow that there is something
there that works, and thenthey're good to go. So I totally
(11:21):
agree with you. I think it'sreally powerful when you
understand that, that demopiece, the showing of it maybe
isn't as big as as what youactually thought. And there's
other ways to be able to getpeople excited and connected
with your brand and wanting whatyou have. Right. Yeah,
Melissa Kwan (11:39):
I mean, I would also say that, like, as we're
talking on the topic of moreenterprise sales and larger,
larger ticket items, when you'reputting out that first, like top
a funnel piece of content likethat demo, you're also giving
the prospect an opportunity todisqualify themselves. And
that's why I say salespeople canget much better leads, if you're
(12:00):
just willing to like,democratize some information and
not feel like well, mysalespeople have to talk to
every single lead. Not everysingle lead deserves the same
attention. Right, it is sodisheartening for a salesperson
to hop on a call within thefirst few minutes realizing
that's not a great customer. ButI still have to go through the
next 20 minutes. Because they'reon the phone. I can't just hang
(12:21):
up. I think we've all beenthere. So that's where I think
an asset like an automated demoautomated webinar can help you
actually not only cast a such awider net, but help You
disqualify people that actuallydon't need a conversation. I
Matt Wolach (12:35):
totally agree. I want to ask you, what do you
think? And I want to make sureeverybody understands, what is
the difference between a livewebinar and a pre recorded
webinar? And should we use both?
Should we only use one? How'sthat work?
Melissa Kwan (12:46):
Yeah, so a live webinar, everybody, you know,
uses them in, I think, in someaspects in their business. So it
could be, you know, a one tomany webinar where you're doing,
you know, a training andonboarding, for example, like
somebody signs up to your, toyour products. There's a demo
next Thursday at 11. Some peoplejoin, some people don't show up.
That's one form of a webinar.
But another could just be one onone, like, like, we're talking
(13:07):
about one on one demos where Iwant a demo of your product,
let's book a call, let's helpI'm not but there's a live video
live audio component where youknow, you're talking to someone
on the other side. webinarautomation is where we turn a
video, like your your bestrecorded pitch, and deliver it
like a webinar. So people stillschedule time, they still get
(13:28):
reminders and follow ups. Butwhen they're watching the
webinar at that given time, thevideo is not a live stream, it
is actually a video. But for asoftware like ours, you've also
have you still have a chatcomponent where people can ask
questions you can I can hop intorespond live if I'm there, but I
if I'm not there, and I respondlater, they actually get an
(13:49):
email response, very similar tolike any kind of pop up chat bot
on any website. But we for us,we actually take that one step
further, where you can programin things like, you know, polls,
questions, contact forms,calendar links, within the
experience itself to make itmore engaging and more
interactive. And you can use itto deliver more information, but
also get more information. Soyou're actually able to do that
(14:12):
discovery, through thoseinteractions that you program
without needing to ask questionslive and actually being there.
So those are the twodifferentiating factors. And the
live of course, only happensonce in a while. It's dependent
on your schedule, or as anautomated webinar can literally
happen. 24/7 and, you know, sellyour product in your sleep.
Matt Wolach (14:33):
Yeah, I love that.
It's so appealing, especiallyfor people who are running small
teams and trying to do a bunchof different things at once. But
what do you say to people whomight feel weird about making a
pre recorded webinar look real?
And I think it's amazing thetechnology, people jump in and
it feels like they're in a livewebinar. There's chat happening,
they can chat. What about and bythe way, I have one of those so
(14:55):
I'm totally okay with it. Butwhy do some people feel weird
about it, and what should we sayto
Melissa Kwan (14:59):
them. So I think there anyone that knows or have
seen Automated Webinarssolutions before us or maybe
have hopped into one, they mayhave experienced what I
experienced in the past, whichis people pretending they're
alive when they're not. I thinkthat's where the problem is. And
that's why people feel weirdabout it. It's like, well, I
(15:21):
might tricking someone, like,just because the video is
recorded doesn't mean you haveto trick someone to think it's
live. Like, we encourage ourcustomers to tell people this is
recorded, but I'm imagining thechat, like people know that at
3am, your timezone that there'snot like 300 people joining and
you're not on the other side.
Right. So we actually, at leastin our software, I can't speak
for other people. But weactively don't build features
(15:43):
that make like that, that createfalse scarcity. And also like,
you know, fake counters, andlike fake chats and stuff like
that. So we actually want todeliver an experience that is
beautiful, that's professional,but also has integrity. So
that's what I would say to thosepeople is like, if you have a
preconceived notion of what anautomated webinar is, it might
(16:06):
be because you were in one ofthose before where you are
tricked to believe this is livewhen it's not, but that's not
what the experience we'redelivering with E webinar,
right? Like, it's almost like, Iwould say, for people to think
like, who might think who mightfeel weird about it, like,
equate this to Netflix, right?
People expect to watch videos ondemand now, because of how
(16:28):
Netflix has actually changed ourexpectation. This is the one
reason why the attendance ratefor live webinars is so low,
everybody wants to have theirwebinar at you know, next
Tuesday at 11. But I've gotother things to do. Right, I'm
at work, I have to pick up mykids or you know, maybe I want
to sleep in that day, you know,whatever it might be, you can no
longer dictate. When someone isfree to watch your content. You
(16:52):
can only be there when they wantit. So, like, just think about
how I think consumer experiencesand how you want to consume
video today. And then give thatexperience to your prospect in
your
Matt Wolach (17:05):
customer. That's great advice. Can you share any
tips for creating a successfuland engaging webinar?
Melissa Kwan (17:10):
Yeah. I mean, I would say, Ron, I mean, this is
kind of counterintuitive to, towhat we do. But when you say
like tips I want to focus onlike, what about automation,
because that's where that'swhere my expertise is. I would
say run as many live webinarsand demos as it takes for you to
(17:33):
for you to figure out what yourbest pitches before you automate
it. Right? Because to sell tosomeone one on one is actually
not that hard. Right? I canreact to their objections live
in real time. Like, I can seeyour expression, and I can
change my pitch halfway. Sothat's actually not that hard.
(17:55):
Right? When you're automatingsomething, you're actually
selling to someone without evertalking to them. You need them
to convert and take action ontheir own. And that's a very
different way of coming up witha sales pitch. And in order to
come up with that script, youhave to know all the potential
objections and address themupfront and work them into your
(18:16):
scripts. Otherwise, thatperson's not going to convert,
right. So some of my customerswill come to me and say, Oh, I
ran this a few times peoplearen't buying this is not for
me. But they're not actuallylooking at the scripts, because
they're using the exact samescript that they would use in an
automated webinar versus a livepitch, which is very different.
(18:36):
Right? So my, my best advice asit relates to sales is do as
many demos as you can as manysales pitches as you can, until
that pitch gets robotic, andthen take that and create the
best sales pitch ever. And thenautomate that and let that work
for you.
Matt Wolach (18:53):
I mean, it's kind of like we hear about stand up
comedians, right stand the beststand up comedians, go to like
some tiny little club andpractice all their stuff, before
they go on their Netflixspecial, and it's recorded. And
that's what's going to be thereforever. So it's kind of the
same deal, like, get those repsand make sure you understand
what people react to what theylike what works, what gets
(19:14):
people to take action, and thenput it together into your final
awesome big stand up special,which is your your eat webinar.
So I love all this advice. It'sfantastic. And I'm actually
thinking what we can do to goimplement. But I want to ask you
with your own company, you'vebeen able to start and grow this
company has become successful.
Listen, I'm loving your ownstory. What tips from your own,
you know, growing of thiscompany and making these changes
(19:38):
that you've talked about? Whattips would you give to others
who are just getting started andwanting their company to become
successful as well?
Melissa Kwan (19:46):
So I'm a bootstrap company. Very, very different
than how a VC back company wouldrun. But I would say the best
tip that I have is make sureAbout every decision that you
make, you are either doing it towin a customer, or doing it to
(20:08):
keep a customer. Because whenyou're a bootstrap company, you
have so little resources. And itfeels like you have to do
everything and be on everychannel and create every piece
of content and be on everypodcast and, and get feature
parity with all yourcompetitors. But only a fraction
of those decisions will help youwin someone, or keep someone and
(20:28):
then add to your revenue. So youcan do more things. So I think
that's the best advice is like,with every decision that you
make, just ask yourself, like,how is this adding to my
business? And if it's not, thatthing can probably be pushed.
Matt Wolach (20:42):
I love it.
fantastic advice. And I thinkthat's something that even
myself I get kind of sidetrackedon but if we just think about
hey, is this going to help usgrow as it helps gonna keep
people? Amazing advice, Melissa,this has been awesome. And time
has gone super fast. I've reallyenjoyed it. How can our audience
learn more about you and yourwebinar?
Melissa Kwan (20:59):
Yeah. So if you're curious about your webinar on
how it can help you or yourbusiness, just go to E
webinar.com. exactly as itsounds, e webinar.com. There's a
demo, of course, self served,delivered through our own
product in a very meta way. Imanaged to chat. So if you have
questions, you can type to methere. And I'm also on LinkedIn.
So last name is spelt Quan kW.
And we'll
Matt Wolach (21:21):
put all that into the show notes. I'm gonna go
check that out myself. I mightget into your funnel and see how
things are running. It lookscool. Well, awesome. Melissa,
this has been a lot of fun.
Thanks so much for coming on theshow and sharing your wisdom.
Oh, thanks so much. Absolutely.
Everybody out there. Thank youfor being here as well. Make
sure you're subscribed to theshow. Hit that subscribe button
right now. Also, we're lookingfor reviews. If you have a good
review, if you're thinking wow,this is great. Go ahead and put
(21:42):
that in there. That'll reallyhelp us understand we're giving
you the right information withawesome great innovators and
leaders like Melissa. So thankyou for being here, and we'll
see you next time. Take care.
Intro/ Outro (21:54):
Thanks for listening to Scale Your SaaS for
more help on finding great leadsand closing more deals. Go to
Mattwolach.com
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