September 26, 2023 • 27 mins
EPISODE SUMMARY
In a world where technology evolves at breakneck speed, and software businesses are constantly adapting to changing landscapes, the importance of content marketing for B2B SaaS (Software as a Service) companies cannot be overstated.
In this week’s episode of Scale Your SaaS, we explore the journey of Jake Hurwitz, Founder, and Chief Marketing Officer at Thursday Labs, and a seasoned entrepreneur and marketer, as he delves into the nuances of content marketing, its significance, and the common mistakes that B2B SaaS companies make with host and B2B SaaS Sales Coach Matt Wolach.
PODCAST-AT-A-GLANCE
Podcast: Scale Your SaaS with Matt Wolach
Episode: Episode No. 283, "From Unknown to Unforgettable - Content That Converts - with Jake Hurwitz"
Host: Matt Wolach, a B2B SaaS Sales Coach, Entrepreneur, and Investor
Guest: Jake Hurwitz, Founder & Chief Marketing Officer at Thursday Labs
TOP TIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
- Adopt Content Marketing Strategy: A Roadmap to Success
- Measure Short-Term Wins and Long-Term Success
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
- Thursday Labs: The Name with a Story
- The Power of Content Marketing in B2B SaaS
TOP QUOTES
Jake Hurwitz
[9:34] “The people behind them are like, “that's who we want to be a part of”. Their story is the story we want to live. And so I've gone all in on that strategy.”
[16:12] “ But I do understand that short-term wins and short-term results are necessary.”
Matt Wolach
[21:52] “It's something that I preach to my clients over and over, your buyers don't care about you, they care about themselves, they care about the results they're gonna get.”
LEARN MORE
To learn more about Thursday Labs, visit: https://www.thursdaylabs.co/
You can also find Jake Hurwitz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakehurwitz/
For more about how host Matt Wolach helps software companies achieve maximum growth, visit https://mattwolach.com/scale-time
Get even more tips by following Matt elsewhere:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Wolach (00:10):
Sometimes we know we need content, but we kind of
shy away from creating itbecause we think it's going to
take too long to actually getresults. Of course, we've heard
its content sometimes takesmonths to a year. So how do we
make sure we're creating goodcontent, but also getting
quicker results than eightmonths to a year? Well,
fortunately, Jake Hurwitz camein and he's with Thursday labs,
and he shared exactly what he'sdoing, and also what he's doing
(00:32):
with his clients so that they'regetting content that's going to
create an amazing brand, butalso in the short term starting
to see results really quickly,like four to six weeks. And so
he's got some really interestingideas and a lot of key action
items you can do right away thatare going to get you quick
results and create a long termbrand that you're going to
absolutely love. Check this oneout.
Intro/ Outro (00:53):
Welcome to Scale Your SaaS, the podcast that
gives you proven techniques andformulas for boosting your
revenue and achieving your dreamexit brought to you by a guy
who's done just that multipletimes. Here's your host, Matt
Wolach.
Matt Wolach (01:09):
And welcome welcome to Scale Your SaaS really
excited to have you here. Thankyou very much for joining. By
the way if you are new,definitely subscribe to this
show. We are going to give youall sorts of insight and ways to
grow your company, includingtalking with some of the best
people within the SaaS andbusiness world. So definitely
hit that subscribe button. Welook forward to seeing you every
single time. I am jacked abouttoday's episode, I have Jake
(01:33):
Hurwitz with me, Jake, how youdoing? I'm doing great. It's
been a good day, so far a greatweek. But I'm excited to chat
with you. So let me make sureeverybody knows who you are.
Jake. So Jake is the founder andchief marketing officer at
Thursday labs. This guy is atrue visionary. He's a serial
entrepreneur who's verypassionate about innovation and
connecting with people. Thursdaylabs focuses on organic thought
(01:56):
leadership content for founders,really what they do they handle
end to end content creation,video production, social media,
website design and a whole lotmore. Their focus is on
measurable results, not contentjust for content sake. So Jake,
once again, thanks for coming onthe show. Soon to be here.
Likewise cited happy to tell mewhat's going on with you lately.
And what's coming up.
Jake Hurwitz (02:18):
Oh, man, well life lately. So you know, it's been a
busy decade, I guess we can say.
Long story short, you know, Istarted this agency. 10 years
ago, I was just like, an 18 yearold kid starting a marketing
agency. So made all themistakes, and got into tech
through that started as a couplestartups, most of them failed,
(02:38):
we did sell one, which waspretty cool. So a little bit of
money, and data going intoventure capital for a while. And
so I was like a VC at like 22years old, and did that for
about five years and woke up oneday, and was just like, Damn,
I'm a finance guy now. Andthat's never who I was and who I
wanted to be. And made thisevolution back into marketing.
(03:00):
And I was the CMO for a year.
And then come January, you know,the world seemed to really
change really fast below ourfeet, like GPG came out. All
these AI tools came out, themarket changed drastically
economically. And we had to eventhough we did a great job.
growing the company, when I wasCMO, we do about 300%, six
(03:23):
months, we did have to shut downin January, like had a high burn
rate can raise the next round,we were selling to a market that
got completely decimated byeconomic tough times. And
without skipping a beat was justlike, there's this new model
that I'm figuring out here. Andit's working and the tech is
there to make this superefficient. And that's Thursday
(03:44):
labs. So I've been I've beenbusy really, really busy since
February, really working withone company kind of figuring out
the model, the case study andlike what's the right offering?
Where's the value? What's thepricing really in beta for about
six months? And I assume hefigured that out. And I put that
out there, the new offering, youknow, figuring out the pricing,
(04:04):
figuring out the timeline, kindof the whole playbook around
what what is the product. I putthat out there about six weeks
ago. And for anyone listening,depending on when you're
listening, it's September 12.
Right now, I'd say put that out,like right at the beginning of
August. And within a week wentfrom one client to six clients
from this new model. And so nowin the beginning stages with all
(04:25):
these new clients, we've got awaitlist or 10 more. So I'm
tired, I'm overwhelmed. I'mworking and I'm also in a travel
season traveling all over theworld and moving in about two
months. So if anyone's sick likewow, this guy sounds a little
congested. Yamhill burns out andcognitive uphold doing my best
to get good sleep these days. Solong story short, that's where
(04:47):
we're at.
Matt Wolach (04:50):
Very cool and so awesome that you were able to
create something that generateda whole bunch of interest and
getting going from one to sixclients that fast that happened
a whitelist of 10 more I'm surethat's a place a lot of people
would want to be. I want to getinto that in just a sec. But
first, I got to know whyThursday labs, how'd you come up
with that name?
Jake Hurwitz (05:10):
It's a long and honestly not that exciting story
I'll give you in 2017, I wasgoing through my first and very
difficult breakup. And I wasreally lonely. And I was living
in Boulder, Colorado, and in theprocess of moving to Denver, and
I just wanted to meet new peopleI wanted to meet. Just like new
(05:31):
friends I wanted, I was young, Iwanted to meet adults and like,
just cool, smart people. So Istarted hosting a dinner party
every Thursday. And I love that.
Yeah, over the years, it grewinto a company and that company
was first called Blue Plate. Andlater during COVID obviously had
to change things up a bit. Butwe relaunched and rebranded at
one point called Thursday club.
(05:54):
And it evolved largely over theyears hosted like 200, some odd
dinners all over the world, allover the world, because it was
one that was overseas. So nowit's global, but the rest were
in all over the country. I guessit counts. Yeah. So we have to
generate over the walls, andlearn a lot about a lot of
things through it. And when Iwas launching, relaunching my
(06:16):
agency, my company back in thebeginning of this year, I want
to come up with a name for it, Iwas like, God, I've launched so
many things that have launchedagency, I've launched six of my
own projects and companies, I'velaunched dozens, maybe hundreds
of client companies. And like, Ican't just keep being the guy
who just like keeps launchingnew things under new names, we
(06:38):
don't run out of names. So Ilooked at what I already had.
And it was like, I've gotThursday club, and people know
me for that for a lot of places.
So maybe what I do is launchThursday labs. And that's almost
this like, de facto holdingcompany or you know, umbrella
company over different projects.
And so launch that thinking thatThursday club would be almost a
(06:58):
like division of Thursday Labs,which was our, you know, our
networking events in our juniorclub and stuff like that. But
then I just got so busy with thecontent production that I've
been haven't hosted one dinnerover the last. The last year I
hosted was in January. And yes,it's been almost, what, nine
months now, something like that,and just ran with a name. It's
(07:22):
been like an easy name toremember people that have spell
it. It creates a lot ofoptionality for fun branding
stuff we could do like Thursdaylabs, Thursday studio, Thursday
ventures, there's the club, allkinds of stuff. So that's the
backstory. And Thursday is thebest day of the week. It's like
you're almost the weekend, whenyou're still grinding out stuff,
you can like start to go out anddo things. And it does have a
(07:42):
bit of a soft spot. For me, I'mjust like with Thursday's always
representative, my wife,
Matt Wolach (07:47):
I love that idea of the whole, you know, coming up
with a way for people to gettogether to host that dinner
party good for you for doingthat. It reminds me, my wife and
I host something called Fridaynight meatballs. And the idea
was, let's connect offlineinstead of online. And so we
would invite people fromdifferent parts of our life to
(08:09):
come together. And we'd haveprobably like 20 people over our
house, we'd make up a wholebunch of meatballs, I would
basically make 60 meatballs andmake up just a whole bunch of
spaghetti and meatballs andtotal casual, we're not going to
clean the house just come overand hang out and people loved
it. And it became a thing we doit about quarterly now. And it's
amazing how much people wantthat interaction. Because we do
have that online interaction alot. But they also feel like
(08:32):
they need the the offline. Soit's been it's been really fun.
I'm glad you did that. And justkind of reminded me of my own
story. But I do want to know, westill have to have that online
interaction, especially in a b2bSaaS environment. So content
marketing is one of yourpassions. It's something you're
really good at. But why iscontent marketing so important
to b2b SaaS companies?
Jake Hurwitz (08:52):
Yeah, I mean, there's been this trend for I
don't know, let's, let's reallytarget it like three years now.
But it has been around forever,of like people trust people more
than they trust brands. Thereare literally like teenagers and
people in their early 20s, whohave more followers and
(09:13):
subscribers than the largestmedia companies in the world.
That's wild. And there's beenthis trend for, I want to call
it. I mean, it's been aroundforever, but really been a trend
in the startup world in the techworld for about three years,
maybe four years, like people,people trust people more than
they trust brands. There's thereliterally are teenagers and kids
(09:35):
in their early 20s who have morefollowers and subscribers than
the biggest media companies inthe world, the biggest crazy
publications in the world. Andthese are people that they're so
freakin loyal. I mean, look atcelebrities like anything they
do or say or tell us to buy. Wedo it. And so we're entering
this era. We've been in this erafor a bit where founders
(09:55):
entrepreneurs, the newrockstars, but yet the b2b
founders are not putting outmuch thought leadership content
and the ones who aren't doing itare crushing it. They're doing
it really well. It's it'sfounder led growth. They're
really, that is their number onecatalyst for growth for their
companies. Because the other daylike, do we really care about
another b2b SaaS company? Like,do we really care about other
(10:16):
tech company trying to try tosave us revenue, or make us some
money or save us time, they'reall doing the same thing,
talking to their own their ownpeople in their own way. And no
one understands what they do.
But yet the people behind themare like, that's who we want to
be a part of their story isstore we want to live. And so
I've gone all in on thatstrategy. It's worked. I love
it. And it's, quite frankly, hada massive impact on my life as
(10:37):
well as yours in so many ways.
Matt Wolach (10:41):
Yeah, and I totally believe in that it's yours.
You're so right. People want tobuy from people. It's something
I train my clients all the time,and the people need to connect
with those people. And I mean,it's crazy. You're right,
teenagers having bigger brands,quote, unquote, than big brands.
And it's, it's kind of nuts, butit's so true. And that's just
kind of the day and age we livein. But if you're starting this,
(11:02):
if you're if you're a SaaSfounder, let's say, and you're
wondering, okay, well, what typeof content should I create? What
can we put together on our side,that's going to actually convert
because growing an audience isone thing, but if you're a b2b
SaaS founder, what contentshould be created that actually
converts into customers.
Jake Hurwitz (11:23):
So not just hard sell and pitch to my company
right now. But that's exactlywhat what we focus on. So
there's a bit of a story I'llshare here. What I found, and
I've been there myself, and isyou've got all these founders
who are like, I feel like Ishould. And that's kind of the
key phrase, I feel like I shouldbe producing a podcast and
(11:44):
writing a newsletter andblogging and being on Twitter
every day. And writing onLinkedIn every day, you should
probably be dabbling on ticktock and all that. But screw
that. And quote, like, so manyfounders are dealing with this
and feel like that, because theydon't know where to start. And
it's a lot of work. And theydon't have a strategy, but they
(12:05):
know they should have a strategyto it. Why are we doing this,
they don't stay consistent. It'sslow to get results. And we're
in a quick dopamine, like quickresults type of era. And so you
give up and so they just don'tdo it at all. And so what I,
that's what we do with ourcompany is we produce all that
content for them. So we producepodcast for for our founders, we
(12:25):
write their blog every week oron their newsletter. Every week,
we run their social channels todistribute all that content in
short form video blognewsletter, tweet threads,
LinkedIn threads, and of course,the long form episodes on on
Spotify and Apple and YouTube.
So basically, it's like you showup for an hour a week as one of
my clients, you record yourepisode, but then you get 150
pieces of content over thecourse of 12 episodes, across 11
(12:47):
channels. So anyway, I believe Imean, I put my whole career on
the line for this, and I'mbuilding a company platform for
this, that founders should be,number one, do the podcast,
right? Be a thought leader andask great questions and like,
build your network throughinterviewing and all that, but
then use that content, todistribute it everywhere in
(13:10):
many, many formats. And, youknow, it's the Gary Vaynerchuk
model that we've all heard thisfor years. But yeah, you can
take 145 minute episode, andthen write a blog about it and
like pull up the clips. That wasalways very manual. Now, there
are tons and tons and tons oftools, whether they're AI or
not, I can just do this reallyquickly and automatically, for
reference in the end of 2022 andearly 2023. It was a full time
(13:33):
job for me to create all thiscontent and distribute it
everywhere for one company. Andthen all these new tools came
out and now I can handle likeseven or eight at a time. And
it's just continuing to getfaster and faster. So it's like
do it have a strategy in mindMake sure it is rooted in
something is rooted in data andthere's a wide behind each piece
(13:54):
of content you're putting outand where you're putting it and
who you're what you're whatmessage you're spreading. But I
think founders need to beeverywhere in all formats every
single day. And I take that tothe grave.
Matt Wolach (14:07):
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(16:07):
agree. I have people come to me.
And they're like, Hey, we'vedone this content. It's just not
working, I take a look at whatthey've got. And their last blog
posts was like seven weeks ago,and I'm like, Okay, you're not
committed to a content strategy.
You need to be daily out therein front of everybody. And it's
just crazy. The types of resultsyou can get when you when you do
stay consistent with it. And Ithink that that's something that
(16:29):
a lot of leaders struggle withis okay, well, we know we want
content to be great to havethat. And that's nice, but they
feel like it's a long termstrategy, like it's going to
take a long time to get results.
And so what would you say tothem when they think, okay, it's
gonna be a long time. And sowhat happens is, they just keep
delaying and delaying and theydon't do it. They don't do it.
They look at short term leadgeneration. But can't this
actually get you some short termresults?
Jake Hurwitz (16:54):
Yes, but it is a long term play. And I am not
afraid of knowing again thatyou're right. And as long term,
it's the same as dieting, orexercising. Here's what I say,
and this is 100% true, every oneof my clients, we're going to
get results. I never gonnapromise or guarantee what those
results are gonna guarantee thatwe're gonna get some awesome
(17:17):
results. And many of which wecan't even begin to think about
what those are right now. Forexample, I had a client that
after we put out their firstpodcast episode, which is our
Thursday, and they're based inNew York, he went out on
Saturday night with a couplepeople on his team and a few
friends in New York City threedays later, two days later, and
one of the bouncers at anightclub and you want to get
(17:39):
into is like, Hey, man, I sawyour podcast the other day. Can
you skipped the VIP line? Likethat's a pretty cool result of
content, right? It's yeah, andthat's, that's just one of the
things that came out of it. Ofcourse, revenue growth, they
doubled their user base over thelast six months. All of that has
come from has been largelycredited to content but not
(17:59):
100%. You'd have it? It's thesame as dieting or exercising.
Hey, look, anybody. Would youagree or disagree on the
following statement, if you atesuper healthy and worked on five
days a week with a personaltrainer for four months, is your
life going to be better orworse, in four months, it's
like, oh, it'd be better, how'sit gonna be better, you're gonna
look better, you're gonna feelbetter, you're going to have
(18:20):
more confidence, you're gonnasleep better, probably make more
money, you might get a date, hemight have a better sex life
with your spouse, he might feelmore energy with your kids,
there's so many ways that yourlife is better, but it's not
going to happen overnight. Yougot to commit to it. But how do
you commit to it? Well, you joina community of other people that
are on the same path, you get atrainer, you get someone who
(18:42):
looks at you, and studies youand has the science and creates
a strategy and a playbook andhold you accountable. I'm like
that guy. But I'm the contentfront, and I hold people
accountable, I can just show upan hour a week, it's way easier
than working out or go to thegym, you should do that, too.
That's how I look at it. But Ido understand that short term
wins and short term results arenecessary and just 2023 and the
(19:05):
way humans are and the world welive in. And so we take that
into our model. By the end ofthe first week, you're going to
already have asked for people tobe on your podcast. By the end
of our second week, you're goingto have already have your
website up. And all your newsocial media pages up where the
podcast is going to go. And youstart sharing that with people
to build your waitlist. Theyenter the third week, you have
already recorded your first twoepisodes. And by the end of
(19:27):
fourth week, we've alreadyposted your first episode. So
like, very short term wins thatotherwise you just sat on for
three years and didn't doanything. You just already are
making progress really fast. Andyou get the feeling of progress.
And you are making progress. Butthat's that's our model.
Matt Wolach (19:46):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like that is great
progress. I love that you'reyou're letting people know,
okay, it's a long term play andyou're gonna get stuff. You're
gonna get results in a while.
But you can also see resultsquickly. I think that's
fantastic, right?
Jake Hurwitz (19:59):
Yeah, yeah. up.
And it's easier for a while justto kind of open the kimono a
bit, we were pricing was reallyhigh. And that was one of the
big barriers here. I mean, I wasthe price for this and a little
bit more was $25,000 a month.
And we had two clients doingthat, right? Like, there was
there was, there was a pricingmission mix and actually changed
(20:21):
the model a bit and brought theprice down to what it's
currently a six grand a month.
And it's now it's like wildfire,everyone's just different level
of value. And so I bring that upone to like, share our pricing
transparently with people andwe're super transparent about
it. But for someone to think,Okay, I need to put in an hour a
week and you know, a month tostart, like getting stuff out
there. And it's a long termplay. And it costs me to
(20:42):
$300,000 a year to do this.
Like, that's, I don't want to doit. But if it's for four months,
it's like give this a try andtake yourself from zero to 100,
or we call it unknown tounforgettable for 24 grand.
Yeah, why would I not do thatthe barrier to entry is so low.
So the whole mission here is getmore people as many people as
(21:04):
possible millions of founders,sharing their story, putting
their content out there, likebuilding businesses off of this,
this playbook, this wholephilosophy, this thesis, going
lives off of it. And it shouldbe a no brainer. Why I want
people doing this. So that's ourbig part of our motto.
Matt Wolach (21:25):
I love that from unknown to unforgettable. That's
so that's a great piece there.
It's so for, you know, somethingthat people just attach on to it
and align with I think that's agreat tagline. So what are some
of the mistakes, Jake, that yousee SAS companies making when
they are trying to do this ontheir own?
Jake Hurwitz (21:42):
Yeah, there's a lot, the number one mistake I
see is this no strategy, justlike content for content sake.
So you know, a couple times aweek when I feel like it, I'm
just gonna go talk to the cameraabout a thing or write a write a
LinkedIn thread. Look, it'sbetter than not doing anything.
But you're honestly just wastingtime, in my opinion. So you have
(22:05):
a strategy, you got to workbackwards, you've got to hold
science to like, who are wereaching? When are we going to
reach them? How are we going toreach them? Who are we going to
interview and get on our podcastand feature in the blog and the
newsletter in order to show ouraudience that like, we have good
thought leaders that we partnerwith and we activate their
audiences. And there's, there'sa whole science behind this. And
so looking at content, as a databacked endeavor, as a research
(22:29):
endeavor to learn more aboutyour customers is really
important. I mean, that's,that's the solution to these
mistakes. It's huge. And thenthe next thing I'd say is huge
mistake is. And this is justkind of classic. Founders
getting on and basically justtalking about themselves,
because they want to be athought leader. They want to
show the world that they havesmart things to say. So they get
(22:51):
out and share. Here are fivethings that you should do to
increase your productivity.
According to me. I just ran aSpartan Race. And here are six
things that I learned aboutleadership. According to me, I
ran sparks no one cares about.
They care about themselves. Andso it's challenging. And there
(23:11):
is a balance to strike of likehow do you make stories, write
stories and share stories andthat others while people still
thinking like, You're brilliant,and you're a thought leader, and
you're someone to follow up?
Really good example is from thisbook, story wars. And I
recommend every founder, everymarketer read that book. And the
example is, it was George Bushrunning against John Kerry in
(23:33):
early 2009. Karen was all aboutherself. George Bush was all
about America. And for anyonewho was alive and able to
understand that at the time willprobably remember Oh, yeah, he
was just like, I'm this guy. I'mthis Democrat, I was hockey
player, I'm this guy that willsolve your problems. But then
George Bush came out. So this isabout America, it's about us.
(23:54):
It's about you. It's about weanyone, a lot of reasons for
that, and not necessarily bringpolitics into this. But like,
from a storytelling standpoint.
It's not about you, it's aboutthe audience. And so being a
thought leader, I think islargely about being a publisher,
and a curator, and a distillerfor lack of a better word, of
(24:15):
taking lots of things to otherpeople and simplifying exam for
your audience and being the onesto spread a message and a story
from from from many differentplaces. And we've got a strategy
around that as well. I never, wenever put out podcasts with our
clients that are just like aboutour company or about our
products, testimonials. That'sads, and people hate them.
Matt Wolach (24:37):
It's so true. And it's something that I preach to
my clients over and over. Theydon't care about you, they care
about themselves, they careabout the results they're gonna
get. And so if you're doingthat, definitely stop. Follow
Jake's advice here. I think it'sreally important. And I totally
agree those stories are crazypowerful. And one of the things
also that I see that why peoplesee you as a leader. See you as
(24:58):
a thought leader see you as Youknow, one of the subject matter
experts, even if you don'treally talk about yourself,
because on the shows, if you getlike you said, you go have a
target list of guests that youhave on your show, and you have
somebody that is recognized as athought leader, well, then when
you put that out, people see youon the same level as them. If
(25:19):
you're interviewing them, thenthey feel like you're on the
same level. And they startassociating you at that level.
That's pretty amazing. I've hadit happen myself, I've had big
time people come on this show aswell. And people see you as
that. It's pretty cool. And so Itotally agree, Jake 100%,
Jake Hurwitz (25:35):
it's starting a new brand. And you want to like
quickly get to that echelon oftrust in the network, or within
the community or the market thatyou're in, that's really the
best way to put it. We'll justgo build a table, a metaphor, a
table and get the people who arealready trusted to come to your
table, and you're at the tablewith them. Now, here is your
shared table. You're at thatlevel, and you can be there in
(25:58):
60 days. But if you're notwilling to do this 60 days, I'm
like, don't even bother any ofthis.
Matt Wolach (26:04):
I love it. I think that's a great one to close on.
It's something that you guys cantake away and learn from. But
Jake, this has been awesome.
Really appreciate you coming in.
How can our audience learn moreabout you?
Jake Hurwitz (26:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
These days LinkedIn is my is mybattleground for content. I test
a lot of strategies and ideas onmy own pages. I've been sick the
last couple of weeks, so Ihaven't been out as much in the
last two weeks, but LinkedIn isthe best place Jake Hurwitz, Hu,
RW cheesy or check out ourwebsite, which is Thursday.
labs.co.
Matt Wolach (26:37):
Love it. We'll put all that into the show notes for
everybody listening. Go aheadand check that out. But he's
Jake Hurwitz Thursday labs.
Everybody, go follow him. Jake,thanks so much for coming on the
show. Thank you, my friend.
Absolutely. And everybody outthere. Thanks for being here.
Definitely make sure that yousubscribe. You do not want to
miss other amazing creators andinnovators like Jake coming up.
So hit that subscribe button andthen we will see you guys next
(26:59):
time. Take care.
Intro/ Outro (27:03):
Thanks for listening to Scale Your SaaS.
For more help on finding greatleads and closing more deals go
to Mattwolach.com
Sometimes we know we need content, but we kind of
shy away from creating itbecause we think it's going to
take too long to actually getresults. Of course, we've heard
its content sometimes takesmonths to a year. So how do we
make sure we're creating goodcontent, but also getting
quicker results than eightmonths to a year? Well,
fortunately, Jake Hurwitz camein and he's with Thursday labs,
and he shared exactly what he'sdoing, and also what he's doing
(00:32):
with his clients so that they'regetting content that's going to
create an amazing brand, butalso in the short term starting
to see results really quickly,like four to six weeks. And so
he's got some really interestingideas and a lot of key action
items you can do right away thatare going to get you quick
results and create a long termbrand that you're going to
absolutely love. Check this oneout.
Intro/ Outro (00:53):
Welcome to Scale Your SaaS, the podcast that
gives you proven techniques andformulas for boosting your
revenue and achieving your dreamexit brought to you by a guy
who's done just that multipletimes. Here's your host, Matt
Wolach.
Matt Wolach (01:09):
And welcome welcome to Scale Your SaaS really
excited to have you here. Thankyou very much for joining. By
the way if you are new,definitely subscribe to this
show. We are going to give youall sorts of insight and ways to
grow your company, includingtalking with some of the best
people within the SaaS andbusiness world. So definitely
hit that subscribe button. Welook forward to seeing you every
single time. I am jacked abouttoday's episode, I have Jake
(01:33):
Hurwitz with me, Jake, how youdoing? I'm doing great. It's
been a good day, so far a greatweek. But I'm excited to chat
with you. So let me make sureeverybody knows who you are.
Jake. So Jake is the founder andchief marketing officer at
Thursday labs. This guy is atrue visionary. He's a serial
entrepreneur who's verypassionate about innovation and
connecting with people. Thursdaylabs focuses on organic thought
(01:56):
leadership content for founders,really what they do they handle
end to end content creation,video production, social media,
website design and a whole lotmore. Their focus is on
measurable results, not contentjust for content sake. So Jake,
once again, thanks for coming onthe show. Soon to be here.
Likewise cited happy to tell mewhat's going on with you lately.
And what's coming up.
Jake Hurwitz (02:18):
Oh, man, well life lately. So you know, it's been a
busy decade, I guess we can say.
Long story short, you know, Istarted this agency. 10 years
ago, I was just like, an 18 yearold kid starting a marketing
agency. So made all themistakes, and got into tech
through that started as a couplestartups, most of them failed,
(02:38):
we did sell one, which waspretty cool. So a little bit of
money, and data going intoventure capital for a while. And
so I was like a VC at like 22years old, and did that for
about five years and woke up oneday, and was just like, Damn,
I'm a finance guy now. Andthat's never who I was and who I
wanted to be. And made thisevolution back into marketing.
(03:00):
And I was the CMO for a year.
And then come January, you know,the world seemed to really
change really fast below ourfeet, like GPG came out. All
these AI tools came out, themarket changed drastically
economically. And we had to eventhough we did a great job.
growing the company, when I wasCMO, we do about 300%, six
(03:23):
months, we did have to shut downin January, like had a high burn
rate can raise the next round,we were selling to a market that
got completely decimated byeconomic tough times. And
without skipping a beat was justlike, there's this new model
that I'm figuring out here. Andit's working and the tech is
there to make this superefficient. And that's Thursday
(03:44):
labs. So I've been I've beenbusy really, really busy since
February, really working withone company kind of figuring out
the model, the case study andlike what's the right offering?
Where's the value? What's thepricing really in beta for about
six months? And I assume hefigured that out. And I put that
out there, the new offering, youknow, figuring out the pricing,
(04:04):
figuring out the timeline, kindof the whole playbook around
what what is the product. I putthat out there about six weeks
ago. And for anyone listening,depending on when you're
listening, it's September 12.
Right now, I'd say put that out,like right at the beginning of
August. And within a week wentfrom one client to six clients
from this new model. And so nowin the beginning stages with all
(04:25):
these new clients, we've got awaitlist or 10 more. So I'm
tired, I'm overwhelmed. I'mworking and I'm also in a travel
season traveling all over theworld and moving in about two
months. So if anyone's sick likewow, this guy sounds a little
congested. Yamhill burns out andcognitive uphold doing my best
to get good sleep these days. Solong story short, that's where
(04:47):
we're at.
Matt Wolach (04:50):
Very cool and so awesome that you were able to
create something that generateda whole bunch of interest and
getting going from one to sixclients that fast that happened
a whitelist of 10 more I'm surethat's a place a lot of people
would want to be. I want to getinto that in just a sec. But
first, I got to know whyThursday labs, how'd you come up
with that name?
Jake Hurwitz (05:10):
It's a long and honestly not that exciting story
I'll give you in 2017, I wasgoing through my first and very
difficult breakup. And I wasreally lonely. And I was living
in Boulder, Colorado, and in theprocess of moving to Denver, and
I just wanted to meet new peopleI wanted to meet. Just like new
(05:31):
friends I wanted, I was young, Iwanted to meet adults and like,
just cool, smart people. So Istarted hosting a dinner party
every Thursday. And I love that.
Yeah, over the years, it grewinto a company and that company
was first called Blue Plate. Andlater during COVID obviously had
to change things up a bit. Butwe relaunched and rebranded at
one point called Thursday club.
(05:54):
And it evolved largely over theyears hosted like 200, some odd
dinners all over the world, allover the world, because it was
one that was overseas. So nowit's global, but the rest were
in all over the country. I guessit counts. Yeah. So we have to
generate over the walls, andlearn a lot about a lot of
things through it. And when Iwas launching, relaunching my
(06:16):
agency, my company back in thebeginning of this year, I want
to come up with a name for it, Iwas like, God, I've launched so
many things that have launchedagency, I've launched six of my
own projects and companies, I'velaunched dozens, maybe hundreds
of client companies. And like, Ican't just keep being the guy
who just like keeps launchingnew things under new names, we
(06:38):
don't run out of names. So Ilooked at what I already had.
And it was like, I've gotThursday club, and people know
me for that for a lot of places.
So maybe what I do is launchThursday labs. And that's almost
this like, de facto holdingcompany or you know, umbrella
company over different projects.
And so launch that thinking thatThursday club would be almost a
(06:58):
like division of Thursday Labs,which was our, you know, our
networking events in our juniorclub and stuff like that. But
then I just got so busy with thecontent production that I've
been haven't hosted one dinnerover the last. The last year I
hosted was in January. And yes,it's been almost, what, nine
months now, something like that,and just ran with a name. It's
(07:22):
been like an easy name toremember people that have spell
it. It creates a lot ofoptionality for fun branding
stuff we could do like Thursdaylabs, Thursday studio, Thursday
ventures, there's the club, allkinds of stuff. So that's the
backstory. And Thursday is thebest day of the week. It's like
you're almost the weekend, whenyou're still grinding out stuff,
you can like start to go out anddo things. And it does have a
(07:42):
bit of a soft spot. For me, I'mjust like with Thursday's always
representative, my wife,
Matt Wolach (07:47):
I love that idea of the whole, you know, coming up
with a way for people to gettogether to host that dinner
party good for you for doingthat. It reminds me, my wife and
I host something called Fridaynight meatballs. And the idea
was, let's connect offlineinstead of online. And so we
would invite people fromdifferent parts of our life to
(08:09):
come together. And we'd haveprobably like 20 people over our
house, we'd make up a wholebunch of meatballs, I would
basically make 60 meatballs andmake up just a whole bunch of
spaghetti and meatballs andtotal casual, we're not going to
clean the house just come overand hang out and people loved
it. And it became a thing we doit about quarterly now. And it's
amazing how much people wantthat interaction. Because we do
have that online interaction alot. But they also feel like
(08:32):
they need the the offline. Soit's been it's been really fun.
I'm glad you did that. And justkind of reminded me of my own
story. But I do want to know, westill have to have that online
interaction, especially in a b2bSaaS environment. So content
marketing is one of yourpassions. It's something you're
really good at. But why iscontent marketing so important
to b2b SaaS companies?
Jake Hurwitz (08:52):
Yeah, I mean, there's been this trend for I
don't know, let's, let's reallytarget it like three years now.
But it has been around forever,of like people trust people more
than they trust brands. Thereare literally like teenagers and
people in their early 20s, whohave more followers and
(09:13):
subscribers than the largestmedia companies in the world.
That's wild. And there's beenthis trend for, I want to call
it. I mean, it's been aroundforever, but really been a trend
in the startup world in the techworld for about three years,
maybe four years, like people,people trust people more than
they trust brands. There's thereliterally are teenagers and kids
(09:35):
in their early 20s who have morefollowers and subscribers than
the biggest media companies inthe world, the biggest crazy
publications in the world. Andthese are people that they're so
freakin loyal. I mean, look atcelebrities like anything they
do or say or tell us to buy. Wedo it. And so we're entering
this era. We've been in this erafor a bit where founders
(09:55):
entrepreneurs, the newrockstars, but yet the b2b
founders are not putting outmuch thought leadership content
and the ones who aren't doing itare crushing it. They're doing
it really well. It's it'sfounder led growth. They're
really, that is their number onecatalyst for growth for their
companies. Because the other daylike, do we really care about
another b2b SaaS company? Like,do we really care about other
(10:16):
tech company trying to try tosave us revenue, or make us some
money or save us time, they'reall doing the same thing,
talking to their own their ownpeople in their own way. And no
one understands what they do.
But yet the people behind themare like, that's who we want to
be a part of their story isstore we want to live. And so
I've gone all in on thatstrategy. It's worked. I love
it. And it's, quite frankly, hada massive impact on my life as
(10:37):
well as yours in so many ways.
Matt Wolach (10:41):
Yeah, and I totally believe in that it's yours.
You're so right. People want tobuy from people. It's something
I train my clients all the time,and the people need to connect
with those people. And I mean,it's crazy. You're right,
teenagers having bigger brands,quote, unquote, than big brands.
And it's, it's kind of nuts, butit's so true. And that's just
kind of the day and age we livein. But if you're starting this,
(11:02):
if you're if you're a SaaSfounder, let's say, and you're
wondering, okay, well, what typeof content should I create? What
can we put together on our side,that's going to actually convert
because growing an audience isone thing, but if you're a b2b
SaaS founder, what contentshould be created that actually
converts into customers.
Jake Hurwitz (11:23):
So not just hard sell and pitch to my company
right now. But that's exactlywhat what we focus on. So
there's a bit of a story I'llshare here. What I found, and
I've been there myself, and isyou've got all these founders
who are like, I feel like Ishould. And that's kind of the
key phrase, I feel like I shouldbe producing a podcast and
(11:44):
writing a newsletter andblogging and being on Twitter
every day. And writing onLinkedIn every day, you should
probably be dabbling on ticktock and all that. But screw
that. And quote, like, so manyfounders are dealing with this
and feel like that, because theydon't know where to start. And
it's a lot of work. And theydon't have a strategy, but they
(12:05):
know they should have a strategyto it. Why are we doing this,
they don't stay consistent. It'sslow to get results. And we're
in a quick dopamine, like quickresults type of era. And so you
give up and so they just don'tdo it at all. And so what I,
that's what we do with ourcompany is we produce all that
content for them. So we producepodcast for for our founders, we
(12:25):
write their blog every week oron their newsletter. Every week,
we run their social channels todistribute all that content in
short form video blognewsletter, tweet threads,
LinkedIn threads, and of course,the long form episodes on on
Spotify and Apple and YouTube.
So basically, it's like you showup for an hour a week as one of
my clients, you record yourepisode, but then you get 150
pieces of content over thecourse of 12 episodes, across 11
(12:47):
channels. So anyway, I believe Imean, I put my whole career on
the line for this, and I'mbuilding a company platform for
this, that founders should be,number one, do the podcast,
right? Be a thought leader andask great questions and like,
build your network throughinterviewing and all that, but
then use that content, todistribute it everywhere in
(13:10):
many, many formats. And, youknow, it's the Gary Vaynerchuk
model that we've all heard thisfor years. But yeah, you can
take 145 minute episode, andthen write a blog about it and
like pull up the clips. That wasalways very manual. Now, there
are tons and tons and tons oftools, whether they're AI or
not, I can just do this reallyquickly and automatically, for
reference in the end of 2022 andearly 2023. It was a full time
(13:33):
job for me to create all thiscontent and distribute it
everywhere for one company. Andthen all these new tools came
out and now I can handle likeseven or eight at a time. And
it's just continuing to getfaster and faster. So it's like
do it have a strategy in mindMake sure it is rooted in
something is rooted in data andthere's a wide behind each piece
(13:54):
of content you're putting outand where you're putting it and
who you're what you're whatmessage you're spreading. But I
think founders need to beeverywhere in all formats every
single day. And I take that tothe grave.
Matt Wolach (14:07):
We'll be right back. scale your Sass is
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(16:07):
agree. I have people come to me.
And they're like, Hey, we'vedone this content. It's just not
working, I take a look at whatthey've got. And their last blog
posts was like seven weeks ago,and I'm like, Okay, you're not
committed to a content strategy.
You need to be daily out therein front of everybody. And it's
just crazy. The types of resultsyou can get when you when you do
stay consistent with it. And Ithink that that's something that
(16:29):
a lot of leaders struggle withis okay, well, we know we want
content to be great to havethat. And that's nice, but they
feel like it's a long termstrategy, like it's going to
take a long time to get results.
And so what would you say tothem when they think, okay, it's
gonna be a long time. And sowhat happens is, they just keep
delaying and delaying and theydon't do it. They don't do it.
They look at short term leadgeneration. But can't this
actually get you some short termresults?
Jake Hurwitz (16:54):
Yes, but it is a long term play. And I am not
afraid of knowing again thatyou're right. And as long term,
it's the same as dieting, orexercising. Here's what I say,
and this is 100% true, every oneof my clients, we're going to
get results. I never gonnapromise or guarantee what those
results are gonna guarantee thatwe're gonna get some awesome
(17:17):
results. And many of which wecan't even begin to think about
what those are right now. Forexample, I had a client that
after we put out their firstpodcast episode, which is our
Thursday, and they're based inNew York, he went out on
Saturday night with a couplepeople on his team and a few
friends in New York City threedays later, two days later, and
one of the bouncers at anightclub and you want to get
(17:39):
into is like, Hey, man, I sawyour podcast the other day. Can
you skipped the VIP line? Likethat's a pretty cool result of
content, right? It's yeah, andthat's, that's just one of the
things that came out of it. Ofcourse, revenue growth, they
doubled their user base over thelast six months. All of that has
come from has been largelycredited to content but not
(17:59):
100%. You'd have it? It's thesame as dieting or exercising.
Hey, look, anybody. Would youagree or disagree on the
following statement, if you atesuper healthy and worked on five
days a week with a personaltrainer for four months, is your
life going to be better orworse, in four months, it's
like, oh, it'd be better, how'sit gonna be better, you're gonna
look better, you're gonna feelbetter, you're going to have
(18:20):
more confidence, you're gonnasleep better, probably make more
money, you might get a date, hemight have a better sex life
with your spouse, he might feelmore energy with your kids,
there's so many ways that yourlife is better, but it's not
going to happen overnight. Yougot to commit to it. But how do
you commit to it? Well, you joina community of other people that
are on the same path, you get atrainer, you get someone who
(18:42):
looks at you, and studies youand has the science and creates
a strategy and a playbook andhold you accountable. I'm like
that guy. But I'm the contentfront, and I hold people
accountable, I can just show upan hour a week, it's way easier
than working out or go to thegym, you should do that, too.
That's how I look at it. But Ido understand that short term
wins and short term results arenecessary and just 2023 and the
(19:05):
way humans are and the world welive in. And so we take that
into our model. By the end ofthe first week, you're going to
already have asked for people tobe on your podcast. By the end
of our second week, you're goingto have already have your
website up. And all your newsocial media pages up where the
podcast is going to go. And youstart sharing that with people
to build your waitlist. Theyenter the third week, you have
already recorded your first twoepisodes. And by the end of
(19:27):
fourth week, we've alreadyposted your first episode. So
like, very short term wins thatotherwise you just sat on for
three years and didn't doanything. You just already are
making progress really fast. Andyou get the feeling of progress.
And you are making progress. Butthat's that's our model.
Matt Wolach (19:46):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like that is great
progress. I love that you'reyou're letting people know,
okay, it's a long term play andyou're gonna get stuff. You're
gonna get results in a while.
But you can also see resultsquickly. I think that's
fantastic, right?
Jake Hurwitz (19:59):
Yeah, yeah. up.
And it's easier for a while justto kind of open the kimono a
bit, we were pricing was reallyhigh. And that was one of the
big barriers here. I mean, I wasthe price for this and a little
bit more was $25,000 a month.
And we had two clients doingthat, right? Like, there was
there was, there was a pricingmission mix and actually changed
(20:21):
the model a bit and brought theprice down to what it's
currently a six grand a month.
And it's now it's like wildfire,everyone's just different level
of value. And so I bring that upone to like, share our pricing
transparently with people andwe're super transparent about
it. But for someone to think,Okay, I need to put in an hour a
week and you know, a month tostart, like getting stuff out
there. And it's a long termplay. And it costs me to
(20:42):
$300,000 a year to do this.
Like, that's, I don't want to doit. But if it's for four months,
it's like give this a try andtake yourself from zero to 100,
or we call it unknown tounforgettable for 24 grand.
Yeah, why would I not do thatthe barrier to entry is so low.
So the whole mission here is getmore people as many people as
(21:04):
possible millions of founders,sharing their story, putting
their content out there, likebuilding businesses off of this,
this playbook, this wholephilosophy, this thesis, going
lives off of it. And it shouldbe a no brainer. Why I want
people doing this. So that's ourbig part of our motto.
Matt Wolach (21:25):
I love that from unknown to unforgettable. That's
so that's a great piece there.
It's so for, you know, somethingthat people just attach on to it
and align with I think that's agreat tagline. So what are some
of the mistakes, Jake, that yousee SAS companies making when
they are trying to do this ontheir own?
Jake Hurwitz (21:42):
Yeah, there's a lot, the number one mistake I
see is this no strategy, justlike content for content sake.
So you know, a couple times aweek when I feel like it, I'm
just gonna go talk to the cameraabout a thing or write a write a
LinkedIn thread. Look, it'sbetter than not doing anything.
But you're honestly just wastingtime, in my opinion. So you have
(22:05):
a strategy, you got to workbackwards, you've got to hold
science to like, who are wereaching? When are we going to
reach them? How are we going toreach them? Who are we going to
interview and get on our podcastand feature in the blog and the
newsletter in order to show ouraudience that like, we have good
thought leaders that we partnerwith and we activate their
audiences. And there's, there'sa whole science behind this. And
so looking at content, as a databacked endeavor, as a research
(22:29):
endeavor to learn more aboutyour customers is really
important. I mean, that's,that's the solution to these
mistakes. It's huge. And thenthe next thing I'd say is huge
mistake is. And this is justkind of classic. Founders
getting on and basically justtalking about themselves,
because they want to be athought leader. They want to
show the world that they havesmart things to say. So they get
(22:51):
out and share. Here are fivethings that you should do to
increase your productivity.
According to me. I just ran aSpartan Race. And here are six
things that I learned aboutleadership. According to me, I
ran sparks no one cares about.
They care about themselves. Andso it's challenging. And there
(23:11):
is a balance to strike of likehow do you make stories, write
stories and share stories andthat others while people still
thinking like, You're brilliant,and you're a thought leader, and
you're someone to follow up?
Really good example is from thisbook, story wars. And I
recommend every founder, everymarketer read that book. And the
example is, it was George Bushrunning against John Kerry in
(23:33):
early 2009. Karen was all aboutherself. George Bush was all
about America. And for anyonewho was alive and able to
understand that at the time willprobably remember Oh, yeah, he
was just like, I'm this guy. I'mthis Democrat, I was hockey
player, I'm this guy that willsolve your problems. But then
George Bush came out. So this isabout America, it's about us.
(23:54):
It's about you. It's about weanyone, a lot of reasons for
that, and not necessarily bringpolitics into this. But like,
from a storytelling standpoint.
It's not about you, it's aboutthe audience. And so being a
thought leader, I think islargely about being a publisher,
and a curator, and a distillerfor lack of a better word, of
(24:15):
taking lots of things to otherpeople and simplifying exam for
your audience and being the onesto spread a message and a story
from from from many differentplaces. And we've got a strategy
around that as well. I never, wenever put out podcasts with our
clients that are just like aboutour company or about our
products, testimonials. That'sads, and people hate them.
Matt Wolach (24:37):
It's so true. And it's something that I preach to
my clients over and over. Theydon't care about you, they care
about themselves, they careabout the results they're gonna
get. And so if you're doingthat, definitely stop. Follow
Jake's advice here. I think it'sreally important. And I totally
agree those stories are crazypowerful. And one of the things
also that I see that why peoplesee you as a leader. See you as
(24:58):
a thought leader see you as Youknow, one of the subject matter
experts, even if you don'treally talk about yourself,
because on the shows, if you getlike you said, you go have a
target list of guests that youhave on your show, and you have
somebody that is recognized as athought leader, well, then when
you put that out, people see youon the same level as them. If
(25:19):
you're interviewing them, thenthey feel like you're on the
same level. And they startassociating you at that level.
That's pretty amazing. I've hadit happen myself, I've had big
time people come on this show aswell. And people see you as
that. It's pretty cool. And so Itotally agree, Jake 100%,
Jake Hurwitz (25:35):
it's starting a new brand. And you want to like
quickly get to that echelon oftrust in the network, or within
the community or the market thatyou're in, that's really the
best way to put it. We'll justgo build a table, a metaphor, a
table and get the people who arealready trusted to come to your
table, and you're at the tablewith them. Now, here is your
shared table. You're at thatlevel, and you can be there in
(25:58):
60 days. But if you're notwilling to do this 60 days, I'm
like, don't even bother any ofthis.
Matt Wolach (26:04):
I love it. I think that's a great one to close on.
It's something that you guys cantake away and learn from. But
Jake, this has been awesome.
Really appreciate you coming in.
How can our audience learn moreabout you?
Jake Hurwitz (26:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
These days LinkedIn is my is mybattleground for content. I test
a lot of strategies and ideas onmy own pages. I've been sick the
last couple of weeks, so Ihaven't been out as much in the
last two weeks, but LinkedIn isthe best place Jake Hurwitz, Hu,
RW cheesy or check out ourwebsite, which is Thursday.
labs.co.
Matt Wolach (26:37):
Love it. We'll put all that into the show notes for
everybody listening. Go aheadand check that out. But he's
Jake Hurwitz Thursday labs.
Everybody, go follow him. Jake,thanks so much for coming on the
show. Thank you, my friend.
Absolutely. And everybody outthere. Thanks for being here.
Definitely make sure that yousubscribe. You do not want to
miss other amazing creators andinnovators like Jake coming up.
So hit that subscribe button andthen we will see you guys next
(26:59):
time. Take care.
Intro/ Outro (27:03):
Thanks for listening to Scale Your SaaS.
For more help on finding greatleads and closing more deals go
to Mattwolach.com
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