May 21, 2024 • 27 mins
EPISODE SUMMARY
In this week’s episode of Scale Your SaaS, Ozan Unlu, founder and CEO of Edge Delta, shared insights into his journey and the innovations driving his company with host and B2B SaaS Sales Coach Matt Wolach.
With a background that spans leadership roles at tech and aerospace giants like Microsoft, Boeing, and Sumo Logic, Ozan's expertise is undeniable. He's raised an impressive $82 million in venture capital for Edge Delta and collaborated with industry leaders like Cisco and American Airlines. Let's delve into Ozan's story, his vision for Edge Delta, and the invaluable lessons he's learned along the way.
PODCAST-AT-A-GLANCE
Podcast: Scale Your SaaS with Matt Wolach
Episode: Episode No. 317, “On Startup Mistakes, Successes, and $82M in Funding - Ozan Unlu”
Guest: Ozan Unlu, Founder & CEO at Edge Delta
Host: Matt Wolach, a B2B SaaS Sales Coach, Entrepreneur, and Investor
Sponsored by: Leadfeeder
TOP TIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
- Navigating the Startup Landscape
- Fundraising Wisdom
- Sustainable Growth: Focus on steady, sustainable growth rather than rapid expansion. This approach helps maintain efficiency and balance within the team, allowing for more controlled and effective scaling.
- Entrepreneurial Mindset: Hire individuals with an entrepreneurial mindset who can adapt and thrive in a dynamic environment. These team members will be instrumental in navigating challenges and driving the startup forward.
- Strong Co-Founder Relationship: Having a co-founder or a supportive partner can make a significant difference during tough times. This partnership provides balance and shared responsibility, making the journey more manageable.
- Network and Seek Help: Utilize your network for support, feedback, and introductions. Don't hesitate to ask for help and leverage connections to overcome challenges and achieve your goals.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
- The Birth of Edge Delta
TOP QUOTES
Ozan Unlu
[09:52] "I would say my biggest piece of advice would be make sure you are thinking about going into and building a company in an area that you do have very deep, intimate knowledge."
[19:47] "Don't be afraid to reach out to your network, even people that you haven't talked to in years. Just reach out and say Hey, I'd love your thoughts on something. Or I'd love your feedback"
Matt Wolach
[22:48] “I echo the co-founder statement. Having great partners is critical. It's so cool how they can pick you up on those bad days, how they can help you through the tough times how you can work on it together and just create this amazing bond”
LEARN MORE
To learn more about Edge Delta, visit: https://edgedelta.com/
You can also find Ozan Unlu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ozanu/
For more about how Matt Wolach helps software companies achieve maximum growth, visit https://mattwolach.com.
Head over to leadfeeder.com and sign up for a 14-day (no strings attached) free tri
Get even more tips by following Matt elsewhere:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Wolach (00:01):
Welcome to Scale Your SaaS, so glad that you can
make it. By the way, if this isyour first time here, we are
here to help you do exactly thatscale your sass. So let's
generate some awesome leads,let's make sure we know how to
close those leads. Let'sunderstand how we can scale a
team to do this for us. Andlet's make our company amazing.
So we have an incrediblevaluation, we can sell this
thing. If you want any of those,definitely subscribe right now
(00:22):
hit that button. That way,you're gonna get all of the
episodes where we build amazingleaders who have done this or
helping you do this so that youknow exactly how to Scale Your
SaaS and one of those awesomeleaders. I am so excited to talk
with today. I've got Ozan Unluwith me. Ozan, how you doing?
Ozan (00:39):
Good. Good. How are you, Matt?
Matt Wolach (00:41):
I'm doing great.
Thank you for asking. I amlooking forward to our
conversation, especially afterhearing some of the things that
you're you're focused on in ourpre conference session here.
Now, let me make sure everybodyknows who you are Ozan. So Ozan,
he's the founder and CEO at EdgeDelta. His journey encompasses
leadership at edge delta, whichis an automated observability
platform. And he did these greatnotable roles at Tech and
aerospace giants like Microsoft,Boeing and sumo logic. He's got
(01:04):
some awesome experience. He'salso raised 82 million in VC for
Edge Delta, and collaboratedwith industry leaders, such as
Cisco and American Airlines.
Ozan brings so much experienceguys, you're gonna really love
hearing from him. This edgedelta is a cool thing, too. It's
an observability platform. It'sreally innovative. And it's
revolutionizing how businessesprocess route and understand
(01:27):
observability data. So Ozan,thanks so much for coming on the
show.
Ozan (01:31):
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited for the chat. Me
too.
Matt Wolach (01:34):
So tell me what's been going on with you lately?
And what do you have coming up?
Ozan (01:38):
Yeah, I've been doing a lot of traveling. Actually, a
lot of lot of customer on sites,a lot of events, a lot of,
frankly, a lot of interviewing,as I think at a startup you
always have to be doing and soyeah, excited to I think I think
next week, I don't I don'ttravel at all. So I'm here in
Seattle and home base. And youknow, from from Edge Delta
(02:00):
perspective, I think that letsme kind of settle in and kind of
focus back on the the productsales and all the different
parts of our company that maybeI feel like I'm neglecting when
I'm always on flights.
Matt Wolach (02:11):
Yeah, it's it's so crazy. Being a CEO and a leader
like yourself, you are all overthe place. And you're right, I
love that you said this mode ofyou've got to constantly be
recruiting and constantly havethat idea of who's next to join
our team. I think that's supersmart. With the companies that
I've been a part of, and I'verun that have done the best,
we've always had that kind ofsame mindset of who's, who are
(02:35):
the next great people that thatwe can bring on board. So I love
that you're thinking about that.
That's cool.
Ozan (02:40):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, sometimes
there's, there's this, I wouldsay, bad habit of, you know, you
go fundraise, you go hire abunch of people, and then you
kind of try to normalize andthen fundraise and hire a bunch
of people. And, you know, Ithink we kind of fell into that
(03:02):
trap a little bit earlier, aswell, which is, I think in one
year, we had 6x, the company,and it just, it ultimately was
too much. And I think you know,if you can kind of be in that
mindset of, you know, hey, weconstantly need to be adding,
but also, every single timewe're adding that means a lot of
(03:23):
people are being pulled offprojects and interviewing, a lot
of people are being pulled offof projects and onboarding, and
training and all sorts of otherthings. And so, if the ratio
does get a little bit too wonky,you know, I think it does put a
little bit too much chaos. Ithink every startup should have
a little bit of chaos. But butyou know, too much then ends up
(03:44):
being fairly inefficient.
Matt Wolach (03:46):
Yeah, I totally believe that. So tell me, how
did edge Delta come to be? Imean, it's really cool, what
you've done, but what inspiredyou to create this?
Ozan (03:54):
Yeah, so I mean, I've been working on monitoring
technologies for, you know,almost 20 years, even before
edge delta. And then, you know,one thing that I saw in the
space that, you know, mightsound like a cliche is really
the data growth. You know, whenwhen, if we look back at, you
know, 2010, or even 2012, theaverage customer that was
(04:15):
looking at real time streamingdatasets from their mission
critical systems might have beenlooking at, you know, five or 10
gigabytes of data per day. Andnow that's turned into even some
mom and pop shops are, you know,five or 10 terabytes of data,
and then some large enterprisesare at, you know, five or 10
petabytes of data. So, you know,I think when people are looking
(04:36):
at, hey, the data is growing,and it's growing at a pace of,
you know, 40 or 50%, everysingle year. You know, I think
that's if you take the exactsame server, you know, and you
and you leave it over there inthe corner. And yes, the data on
that server just from the thenormal growth and traffic on the
internet might be growing at40 50%. But realistically,
that's not what we're seeing.
We're seeing organizations thatare moving to, you know,
(04:57):
microservices architecture.
yours or Kubernetes arecontainerization. You know,
they're doing multi cloudstrategies, they're doing a lot
of things that actually makethat number a lot larger. And I
would say, you know, over a 10year horizon, that growth and
data might be like, even, youknow, 1,000,000x or 10,000,000x,
for various differentbusinesses. And so, you know,
(05:18):
Edge Delta really was theunderstanding that, hey, not
only from a technical but alsofrom a financial perspective,
that puts a lot of limitationsand bottlenecks on on these
businesses. And in the future,when you know, every
organization is creatingpetabytes, and petabytes of
data. How would you deal withyour logs, metrics and traces
(05:40):
like, you know, the old approachof just, hey, let's put it all
into a bucket. And then let'ssearch and dashboard and alert
on that bucket that works atsmaller datasets, you know, a
larger data set, you have to bea lot more thoughtful about how
is that data being preprocessed, how it's being
transformed? How is it beingrouted? Once it's stored? How
are you organizing that data invarious different indexes. And
(06:00):
so edge delta is really aboutthat. It allows you to take full
control and understanding ofyour datasets from end to end.
And it also enables what we'reseeing in the industry of
certain strategies thatorganizations are taking, such
as data tearing, where they'resaying, hey, not every single
piece of data needs to gothrough the exact same pipeline,
and needs to incur the exactsame cost for my business, there
(06:22):
are high value data sets and lowvalue data sets. And some of
them need to be more kind ofprocessed in real time. Some of
them can be archived to take alook at later. And so edge Delta
really enables that entire newkind of modern approach.
Matt Wolach (06:35):
I love it. I love it. I mean, it's so that means
way above my paygrade. But it'ssuper cool what you guys are
doing. I know that superimportant with your right, like,
when you talk about all thisamount of data out there, it
gets pretty crazy. So how can abusiness? How can everybody
listening out there equipthemselves to handle these
challenges, these datachallenges that, you know,
really are struggle so that theycan have that sustainable
(06:59):
growth? Can you help us withsome actionable insights?
Ozan (07:02):
Yeah, I mean, look, you know, traditionally, if you if
you didn't have a ton of data,you could put it into kind of a
one size fits all tool, where wesay, hey, you know, if, like,
I'll use an example. So data dogis one of the largest players in
(07:23):
the space, they have goodtechnology, they have a good
team. And realistically, if youhave five or 10 gigabytes of
data, as the average person had10 years ago, you could
foreseeably just put all thatinto data dog, your data dog
bill might be, you know,whatever, five or $10,000
annually, and you just eat thatcost, you'd say, hey, look, you
(07:43):
know, for a small startup,that's, you know, it's not
cheap. But that being said, it'swhatever 1/10 or 1/20 of a
headcount. So it's just not abig enough problem for me to
solve. Well, that's not thereality today. So the reality
today is you have a lot of a lotof large datasets, you might be
architecting, directly in, youknow, Eks, which is Kubernetes,
on AWS. And so in that instance,you do want to go implement an
(08:08):
observability platform, that cangive you those real time
insights that can give youunderstanding of your logs,
metrics and traces and not breakthe bank. And so that's kind of
where edge Delta comes in, is,by default, we have been
engineered for the very largescale very large scale datasets.
And so, you know, even if youhad that large data set, that's
(08:28):
where the next question thatcomes up, even if you had a
small dataset, like let's say,for instance, you had only five
or 10 gigs of data today. It'slike, also, you know, the
question comes up of, do youreally want to go take a
potential one way decision to goonto a platform that's going to
be very heavy and expensive togo move on to another platform
later on? Or do you want to kindof go with an edge Delta style
(08:52):
kind of next generationobservability toolset that lets
you see all that stuff in realtime. And when I talk about, you
know, looking at that stuff inreal time, it means, hey, are my
mission critical systems up andrunning? When my customer wants
to go to my, my product or mywebsite and go look around? Is
it functioning? Is itperformance? Is it reliable? Is
it available, you know, all ofthese things that, you know,
(09:14):
even for a small organization,you are constantly trying to
stay on that kind of curve of,you know, slow and steady, are
we 1% better than we were theday before? And every day
matters? And every day countsfor that?
Matt Wolach (09:28):
Yeah, I totally agree. It's so cool, what you're
doing and you talk about some ofthe growth that you've had
happened. I mean, obviously,there's a lot of smart people
who believe in you becauseyou've raised a really
impressive $82 million so far.
And so a lot of our listenersare definitely trying to raise
money themselves. So what uniquelessons do you felt like you
learned throughout thatfundraising journey? And maybe
around investor scrutiny even?
Ozan (09:53):
Yeah, yeah. So I'll use an example there. So you know, I I
can't stand dealing withinsurance. You know, hopefully,
hopefully my insurance providersaren't aren't aren't listening
to this. But, you know, it'sjust, you know, you have to, you
have to basically be angry, andyou have to push and their
default is to basically rejectand deny everything, I would
(10:13):
love to go and do a startup inthe insurance space, and go and
try to improve that, you know,all like what Mark Cuban or
other people are trying to do,right. But that being said, I
don't know, the first thingabout insurance, I've never
worked in insurance, I don'thave any, you know, intimate
knowledge about insurance. So Iwould say to the listeners out
there, it'd be a very bad ideafor me to go, even if I was
(10:37):
trying to say no, but like, Ihave a tech background. So I
can, I can take tech toinsurance, I would say my
biggest piece of advice would bemake sure you are thinking about
going into and building acompany in an area that you do
have very deep, intimateknowledge. And, and for me, it
was it was it was technology anddata and specifically, you know,
(11:01):
monitoring and observability.
Right. And so, you know, I thinkthat's probably the biggest tip
I can give is, why are you theperson in the entire world that
has a unique insight, somethingthat all the other people in the
space haven't really thoughtabout? And, and, you know, it's
really important to understandthat you do have to be an expert
in the field, to then go anditerate on the previous
(11:22):
platforms with the previoustechnologies in that field. So
that would probably be my numberone piece of advice is, you
know, make sure whatever you'vedone, up until now, make sure
that has has led to you having aunique insight and experience
and, and really, that you're anexpert in the field, so that you
can reliably go and make thatnext iteration. You know, for
(11:44):
me, if I weren't, you know,going back to the insurance
example, I would have to go inand learn the basics and
insurance. And, you know, yes, Icould go listen to a few YouTube
videos and, and try to read afew books. But realistically,
nothing's gonna go and replace,you know, years and years of
being in an industry andunderstanding it. And when I say
years and years, by the way, itdoesn't mean also that if you're
(12:06):
a younger generation, that youcan't go find something amazing,
right? Like, I would say, theyounger generation is, you know,
I haven't really been on socialmedia now. Except for LinkedIn,
which is, you know, obviouslysomething I have to be on, and
Twitter X. But like, otherwise,I haven't really been on
LinkedIn much. So, you know, ifsomeone wants to come in and be
a social media influencer,they're gonna be, you know, 100
(12:28):
times better than, than me atdoing that. Right. So, you know,
I think it just comes down towhat are your skill sets? What
are you very good at? What doyou understand better than, you
know, 99 out of 100 people onthe street, and really ensuring
that you are going into thatarea, and you have the ability
to go innovate in that area?
Matt Wolach (12:49):
Yeah, I think that's super smart. It's a it is
tough. When you try and startsomething, you try and do
something that you don't reallyhave a lot of understanding of
what's going on. So I think thatis really good. Do you find
investors? Key on that? Are theyasking you about your past
experience, even before youstarted this when they're when
they're looking at you for apossible investment? Yeah,
Ozan (13:09):
I think so. I mean, you know, the three big things we
talk about is the founding team,you know, we look at the market,
right? And, you know, reallyfrom there, it's, it's a little
bit about, you know, for this,this founding team, you know,
what, what gives them thatunique insight. And, you know, I
would say, if you look at, youknow, if you look at the
(13:34):
founding team, and even for ifyou're starting the fundraising
process, and you're looking attemplates for for pitch decks,
my, my advice is always going tobe for the seed pitch deck or
the precede pitch deck, youalways got to have your founding
team up front at the top of thedeck. And the reason being is
(13:55):
that I've seen a lot of thesepitch decks for seed where, you
know, and by the way, like,unfortunately, the way the world
works is, if you're doing aseries a or Series B, or Series
C, you've already kind of jumpedthrough that hoop of having
already fundraised, so itbecomes less important. But at
the beginning, anything you sayabout the problem statement, or
anything you say about youractual idea, the investor is
(14:16):
always going to have in the backof their head, and they're gonna
say, Well, who is this that'sactually making this claim? Who
is the person that's claimingall these things? Who are the
people that's claiming all thesethings? And so realistically,
you know, again, if, if you goback to the three of, of, you
know, the team and in themarket, and then what's the
unique insight, you know, maybethere's a fourth, which is the
idea itself, but the investorsare really not going to hone in
(14:38):
too much on that idea. First ofall, you know, they don't have
intimate knowledge of the space.
And second of all, we all knowthat idea evolves over time,
right? The also don't, don'tkill yourself coming up with the
perfect idea down to the minutdetail, because realistically,
you're gonna be learning thingsthrough the process. You're
gonna be going and gettingfeedback from early design
partners. So yeah, I would say,number one, first and For most
(14:58):
amongst everything else is makesure the team is up in that in
that kind of early, early partof your slide deck, they
understand what your backgroundis. And they can formulate in
their minds this belief that youcould be that person that
actually has a unique insight inthe space that nobody else has.
Yeah,
Matt Wolach (15:17):
I think that's huge. Investors always are
looking at the team, the blood,you invest in people you buy
from people, they're wanting tomake sure that you and your
team, absolutely know whatthey're doing, and somebody that
they can put their money behindthat they believe it's going to
work out. So thinking backthrough your journey of this
growth that you've gone through,what would you say? Those are
some of the best decisions youguys have made? What are the
(15:38):
best things you guys have donethat helps you accelerate and
get ahead?
Ozan (15:44):
I think early on some of the best decisions we made, and
some of the best hires we madeare people that have an
entrepreneurial mindset. Youknow, I think, you know, when
you talk about in the earlystages of a company, you want
kind of the jack of all trades,and then later on, you want kind
of specialists, I would say, youknow, even as you scale,
(16:08):
ensuring that people have thementality of an entrepreneur
mindset is probably one of thebest decisions we made is to
bring on board people like that.
And so, and it's even a decisionthat we're kind of renewing. Now
is that, you know, obviously,it's been a tough market for
startups for the last couple ofyears. And you do want people
that, you know, I think what wasit it was Elon Musk the other
(16:28):
day a video came out about him.
And I think he was saying, forstartups, it's like, staring
into the abyss and chewingglass, something along those
lines. So you know, that's true,right? I think, you know,
especially in a tough market,or, you know, every startup is
going to have phenomenal days,and they're gonna have dark
days, you do want to make surethat you surround yourself with
(16:48):
people that do have thatmentality of hey, not every day
is going to be, you know,popping bottles of champagne and
choosing and having fun, and youknow, partying, right? Sometimes
it really feels like you know,hey, the party's over. Like we
got we got it, we got to getback to work. So, you know,
ensuring that you have peoplewith that mindset. And with kind
of that entrepreneurial hustle.
That was probably one of thebest decisions we made early on.
Matt Wolach (17:12):
Yeah, I love that.
And it's so important,especially for a startup in that
early day. Those first few hiresthose early hires, they're not
working a standard nine to fivejob like they would be if they
went to work for some giantdeal. It's it's a, it's
Bootstrap. And they're basicallylike founders, they have to have
that entrepreneurial mindset towant to make it happen. I
totally agree. That's kind ofwhat I have felt as an early
(17:35):
leader in startups. It's whatI've felt when I've hired people
as the founder myself. It'sabsolutely critical. And I think
that, that's, I'm glad that youguys were able to find some of
those great people. So that'ssome of the good stuff. What
about some of the bad things?
What were some of the things youlook back on? You're like, Oh, I
wish we didn't do that. Yeah, Ithink,
Ozan (17:53):
you know, what I'd mentioned before is probably the
number one thing is, I think,steady scaling, and growing, is
going to be so much morepowerful and sustainable than
kind of this, you know, youknow, popping every single time
you get get funding, right? So Ithink, obviously, that's hard,
(18:16):
right? At a startup, sometimesyou don't know where you gonna
be next year, sometimes youdon't know where you gonna be
next month, right. So it isdifficult. But you know, one of
the things that really slowed usdown when we went into kind of
this, quote, unquote, hypergrowth mode would be, you know,
when you when you are saying,hey, every team needs to go to x
(18:36):
3x 4x. In a matter of, you know,a few months, everyone pretty
much stops working, and it's nottheir fault. They're just all of
a sudden, they're being pulledto go into interviews multiple
times a day into, you know,scouring their network to see if
you know, there's some highperformers that they can pull
from, you know, other projectsand other areas. And so, you
know, I would say that'sprobably the biggest mistake we
(18:58):
made is, you go into this, andall of a sudden, you're looking,
you're looking into your productroadmap, and you're like, Well,
why isn't this stuff progressingas much as I'd like it to? And
so, you know, I think, beingbeing healthy and balanced. And
making sure that you're alwayshiring and always building the
team, in a nice, structured andscalable way, is probably
(19:20):
something that we should weshould have done better.
Matt Wolach (19:23):
I love it. It's so hard, though. You're right, you
get so focused on on certainprojects and certain things
you're doing. It's justdifficult to stay on that. But I
love that. You talk about thebalance. I think that that's
really critical. I think back tomy startups, that's absolutely
something that I wish we werebetter at as well. So wrapping
up ozone, what advice would youhave for other software founders
who are in their early daystrying to grow and want to make
(19:45):
things happen?
Ozan (19:47):
Yeah, I mean, look, the number one thing as I mentioned
earlier would be make sure youare thinking about an area that
you do have pretty deepexperience and knowledge and
it's not that it's impossible.
Otherwise, it's just you'regoing to be very inefficient in
the early days, where you'regoing and learning, usually on
your own dollar if you've leftyour day job, right. And so, you
(20:08):
know, I would say, that's numberone thing. The other thing is
just, you know, don't be afraidto reach out to your network,
even people that I haven'ttalked to in years, if they
reach out, and they say, Hey,you know, I'd love your thoughts
on something. Or I'd love yourfeedback, or hey, you know, I
noticed you were connected thisperson on LinkedIn, you know,
how old? Do you know them? Wouldyou mind making a warm
(20:30):
introduction? You know, ifyou're going to be in the early
days of building a business, youknow, in many ways, there's not
a lot of room for pride, youhave to just kind of say, hey,
look, like, I need help. Andeven, you know, recently, you
know, I've, I've asked my boardfor help on certain things.
Right. So I think, you know, Ithink it's really important to
understand that, you know, atthe end of the day as as highly
(20:52):
performant, and as, you know, asmuch of a hustler, as you might
be, you know, everyone needshelp, I think, what was it, I
think there was an old ArnoldSchwarzenegger quote, something
along those lines, right, it waslike, you know, it basically
takes takes a whole team ofpeople were, you know, I think
(21:13):
when he was in his early days oflike, weightlifting and being
competitive, I think there wassomething along the lines of
like, they were pooling theirmoney together to be able to do
meals together, something likethat. So, you know, I should
probably understand that quote,a little bit better before
bringing it up. But maybe that'sa that's a fun little research
assignment for everyonelistening. But yeah, I think
that's, that's probably the bigthing is just, you know, it's
(21:35):
gonna be really hard. And, and,you know, that kind of takes us
to the other point, which is,you know, I would, I would
highly recommend, make sure youhave a good co founder that you
trust. And, you know, there aregoing to be those hard days,
those dark days where, you know,you feel down about it, and your
co founder can bring you up, andvice versa. And also, just, you
(21:56):
know, you want to make sure thatyou have someone that's that's
in it with you, right, like, Ihave a phenomenal co founder
Fati, he's amazing. And, youknow, I, I scared, you know, I'm
frightened. Think about on thebad days, you know, what kind of
decisions you'd make if youdidn't have that support system?
So yeah, I would say, you know,make sure you're an expert in
(22:19):
the area, I would say, make sureyou're out there hustling and
scaring your network and askingfor favors. And then yeah, make
sure I think that you have agood good one or two co founders
that can, you know, help balanceyou out when you're, you know,
when you're either depressed ornot in a good mood, or whatever
else, because, you know, it is atough, long journey. And, and
yet, like, like Elon said,right, it's just, you know,
(22:42):
staring into the abyss andchewing glass. So
Matt Wolach (22:48):
well said, It's so true. And I echo the co founder,
you absolutely having greatpartners is critical. It's so
cool how, how they can pick youup on those bad days, how they
can help you through the toughtimes how you can work on it
together and just create thisamazing bond. So I completely
agree with that. All's on thishas been amazing. Really. So so
awesome. Thank you so much forcoming in and sharing all your
(23:09):
wisdom with us? How can ouraudience learn more about you
and edge Delta?
Ozan (23:13):
Yeah, so go to our website, edgedelta.com that has
a ton of information about ourproduct about what makes us
unique in the market. You know,I always get excited about all
the kind of next generationthings that we're doing. There's
also like a concept of, youknow, effectively a bridge to
familiarity, where we also wantto do some basics, we want to
(23:34):
make sure that the users thatcome on board, they're looking
for a great solution andobservability for the locks
mentioned in traces, we want tomake sure also that it feels
familiar to them, right? So itcan't be all the way out in left
field, it has to be, you know,hey, look, I totally understand
how this is the same to theplayers like data dog. And I
totally understand also how it'sbetter in certain areas. So I
(23:55):
would say, definitely, you know,Edge delta.com as well, as you
know, obviously, I tried to postquite a bit on LinkedIn. So a
lot of our new upcoming featuresand roadmap items that we're
gonna be releasing, we try to bepretty pretty, you know, over
communicative and thoughtful onLinkedIn as well. So feel free
to reach out on LinkedIn, feelfree to go to our website. We
(24:16):
also have a wide open, free freesignup and trial. So you can try
the product you can use theproduct and you know if you do
that, definitely I would loveyour feedback there as well.
Okay,
Matt Wolach (24:28):
awesome. We'll put all that into the show notes in
the description. So if you'relistening or watching go check
that out. Like he said, go tryit out. Because see if this
products gonna help you. ButOzon thanks so much for coming
on the show. Really appreciateit.
Ozan (24:40):
All right. Thanks, man.
Matt Wolach (24:41):
Thanks for having me. You're welcome. And
everybody out there. Thanks forbeing here. As I mentioned, make
sure you're subscribed so youdon't miss out on any other
amazing leaders like Ozansharing their information,
sharing their love and, andtheir expertise with you. So
thank you for being here.
Appreciate it, and we'll see younext time. Take care
Welcome to Scale Your SaaS, so glad that you can
make it. By the way, if this isyour first time here, we are
here to help you do exactly thatscale your sass. So let's
generate some awesome leads,let's make sure we know how to
close those leads. Let'sunderstand how we can scale a
team to do this for us. Andlet's make our company amazing.
So we have an incrediblevaluation, we can sell this
thing. If you want any of those,definitely subscribe right now
(00:22):
hit that button. That way,you're gonna get all of the
episodes where we build amazingleaders who have done this or
helping you do this so that youknow exactly how to Scale Your
SaaS and one of those awesomeleaders. I am so excited to talk
with today. I've got Ozan Unluwith me. Ozan, how you doing?
Ozan (00:39):
Good. Good. How are you, Matt?
Matt Wolach (00:41):
I'm doing great.
Thank you for asking. I amlooking forward to our
conversation, especially afterhearing some of the things that
you're you're focused on in ourpre conference session here.
Now, let me make sure everybodyknows who you are Ozan. So Ozan,
he's the founder and CEO at EdgeDelta. His journey encompasses
leadership at edge delta, whichis an automated observability
platform. And he did these greatnotable roles at Tech and
aerospace giants like Microsoft,Boeing and sumo logic. He's got
(01:04):
some awesome experience. He'salso raised 82 million in VC for
Edge Delta, and collaboratedwith industry leaders, such as
Cisco and American Airlines.
Ozan brings so much experienceguys, you're gonna really love
hearing from him. This edgedelta is a cool thing, too. It's
an observability platform. It'sreally innovative. And it's
revolutionizing how businessesprocess route and understand
(01:27):
observability data. So Ozan,thanks so much for coming on the
show.
Ozan (01:31):
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited for the chat. Me
too.
Matt Wolach (01:34):
So tell me what's been going on with you lately?
And what do you have coming up?
Ozan (01:38):
Yeah, I've been doing a lot of traveling. Actually, a
lot of lot of customer on sites,a lot of events, a lot of,
frankly, a lot of interviewing,as I think at a startup you
always have to be doing and soyeah, excited to I think I think
next week, I don't I don'ttravel at all. So I'm here in
Seattle and home base. And youknow, from from Edge Delta
(02:00):
perspective, I think that letsme kind of settle in and kind of
focus back on the the productsales and all the different
parts of our company that maybeI feel like I'm neglecting when
I'm always on flights.
Matt Wolach (02:11):
Yeah, it's it's so crazy. Being a CEO and a leader
like yourself, you are all overthe place. And you're right, I
love that you said this mode ofyou've got to constantly be
recruiting and constantly havethat idea of who's next to join
our team. I think that's supersmart. With the companies that
I've been a part of, and I'verun that have done the best,
we've always had that kind ofsame mindset of who's, who are
(02:35):
the next great people that thatwe can bring on board. So I love
that you're thinking about that.
That's cool.
Ozan (02:40):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, sometimes
there's, there's this, I wouldsay, bad habit of, you know, you
go fundraise, you go hire abunch of people, and then you
kind of try to normalize andthen fundraise and hire a bunch
of people. And, you know, Ithink we kind of fell into that
(03:02):
trap a little bit earlier, aswell, which is, I think in one
year, we had 6x, the company,and it just, it ultimately was
too much. And I think you know,if you can kind of be in that
mindset of, you know, hey, weconstantly need to be adding,
but also, every single timewe're adding that means a lot of
(03:23):
people are being pulled offprojects and interviewing, a lot
of people are being pulled offof projects and onboarding, and
training and all sorts of otherthings. And so, if the ratio
does get a little bit too wonky,you know, I think it does put a
little bit too much chaos. Ithink every startup should have
a little bit of chaos. But butyou know, too much then ends up
(03:44):
being fairly inefficient.
Matt Wolach (03:46):
Yeah, I totally believe that. So tell me, how
did edge Delta come to be? Imean, it's really cool, what
you've done, but what inspiredyou to create this?
Ozan (03:54):
Yeah, so I mean, I've been working on monitoring
technologies for, you know,almost 20 years, even before
edge delta. And then, you know,one thing that I saw in the
space that, you know, mightsound like a cliche is really
the data growth. You know, whenwhen, if we look back at, you
know, 2010, or even 2012, theaverage customer that was
(04:15):
looking at real time streamingdatasets from their mission
critical systems might have beenlooking at, you know, five or 10
gigabytes of data per day. Andnow that's turned into even some
mom and pop shops are, you know,five or 10 terabytes of data,
and then some large enterprisesare at, you know, five or 10
petabytes of data. So, you know,I think when people are looking
(04:36):
at, hey, the data is growing,and it's growing at a pace of,
you know, 40 or 50%, everysingle year. You know, I think
that's if you take the exactsame server, you know, and you
and you leave it over there inthe corner. And yes, the data on
that server just from the thenormal growth and traffic on the
internet might be growing at40 50%. But realistically,
that's not what we're seeing.
We're seeing organizations thatare moving to, you know,
(04:57):
microservices architecture.
yours or Kubernetes arecontainerization. You know,
they're doing multi cloudstrategies, they're doing a lot
of things that actually makethat number a lot larger. And I
would say, you know, over a 10year horizon, that growth and
data might be like, even, youknow, 1,000,000x or 10,000,000x,
for various differentbusinesses. And so, you know,
(05:18):
Edge Delta really was theunderstanding that, hey, not
only from a technical but alsofrom a financial perspective,
that puts a lot of limitationsand bottlenecks on on these
businesses. And in the future,when you know, every
organization is creatingpetabytes, and petabytes of
data. How would you deal withyour logs, metrics and traces
(05:40):
like, you know, the old approachof just, hey, let's put it all
into a bucket. And then let'ssearch and dashboard and alert
on that bucket that works atsmaller datasets, you know, a
larger data set, you have to bea lot more thoughtful about how
is that data being preprocessed, how it's being
transformed? How is it beingrouted? Once it's stored? How
are you organizing that data invarious different indexes. And
(06:00):
so edge delta is really aboutthat. It allows you to take full
control and understanding ofyour datasets from end to end.
And it also enables what we'reseeing in the industry of
certain strategies thatorganizations are taking, such
as data tearing, where they'resaying, hey, not every single
piece of data needs to gothrough the exact same pipeline,
and needs to incur the exactsame cost for my business, there
(06:22):
are high value data sets and lowvalue data sets. And some of
them need to be more kind ofprocessed in real time. Some of
them can be archived to take alook at later. And so edge Delta
really enables that entire newkind of modern approach.
Matt Wolach (06:35):
I love it. I love it. I mean, it's so that means
way above my paygrade. But it'ssuper cool what you guys are
doing. I know that superimportant with your right, like,
when you talk about all thisamount of data out there, it
gets pretty crazy. So how can abusiness? How can everybody
listening out there equipthemselves to handle these
challenges, these datachallenges that, you know,
really are struggle so that theycan have that sustainable
(06:59):
growth? Can you help us withsome actionable insights?
Ozan (07:02):
Yeah, I mean, look, you know, traditionally, if you if
you didn't have a ton of data,you could put it into kind of a
one size fits all tool, where wesay, hey, you know, if, like,
I'll use an example. So data dogis one of the largest players in
(07:23):
the space, they have goodtechnology, they have a good
team. And realistically, if youhave five or 10 gigabytes of
data, as the average person had10 years ago, you could
foreseeably just put all thatinto data dog, your data dog
bill might be, you know,whatever, five or $10,000
annually, and you just eat thatcost, you'd say, hey, look, you
(07:43):
know, for a small startup,that's, you know, it's not
cheap. But that being said, it'swhatever 1/10 or 1/20 of a
headcount. So it's just not abig enough problem for me to
solve. Well, that's not thereality today. So the reality
today is you have a lot of a lotof large datasets, you might be
architecting, directly in, youknow, Eks, which is Kubernetes,
on AWS. And so in that instance,you do want to go implement an
(08:08):
observability platform, that cangive you those real time
insights that can give youunderstanding of your logs,
metrics and traces and not breakthe bank. And so that's kind of
where edge Delta comes in, is,by default, we have been
engineered for the very largescale very large scale datasets.
And so, you know, even if youhad that large data set, that's
(08:28):
where the next question thatcomes up, even if you had a
small dataset, like let's say,for instance, you had only five
or 10 gigs of data today. It'slike, also, you know, the
question comes up of, do youreally want to go take a
potential one way decision to goonto a platform that's going to
be very heavy and expensive togo move on to another platform
later on? Or do you want to kindof go with an edge Delta style
(08:52):
kind of next generationobservability toolset that lets
you see all that stuff in realtime. And when I talk about, you
know, looking at that stuff inreal time, it means, hey, are my
mission critical systems up andrunning? When my customer wants
to go to my, my product or mywebsite and go look around? Is
it functioning? Is itperformance? Is it reliable? Is
it available, you know, all ofthese things that, you know,
(09:14):
even for a small organization,you are constantly trying to
stay on that kind of curve of,you know, slow and steady, are
we 1% better than we were theday before? And every day
matters? And every day countsfor that?
Matt Wolach (09:28):
Yeah, I totally agree. It's so cool, what you're
doing and you talk about some ofthe growth that you've had
happened. I mean, obviously,there's a lot of smart people
who believe in you becauseyou've raised a really
impressive $82 million so far.
And so a lot of our listenersare definitely trying to raise
money themselves. So what uniquelessons do you felt like you
learned throughout thatfundraising journey? And maybe
around investor scrutiny even?
Ozan (09:53):
Yeah, yeah. So I'll use an example there. So you know, I I
can't stand dealing withinsurance. You know, hopefully,
hopefully my insurance providersaren't aren't aren't listening
to this. But, you know, it'sjust, you know, you have to, you
have to basically be angry, andyou have to push and their
default is to basically rejectand deny everything, I would
(10:13):
love to go and do a startup inthe insurance space, and go and
try to improve that, you know,all like what Mark Cuban or
other people are trying to do,right. But that being said, I
don't know, the first thingabout insurance, I've never
worked in insurance, I don'thave any, you know, intimate
knowledge about insurance. So Iwould say to the listeners out
there, it'd be a very bad ideafor me to go, even if I was
(10:37):
trying to say no, but like, Ihave a tech background. So I
can, I can take tech toinsurance, I would say my
biggest piece of advice would bemake sure you are thinking about
going into and building acompany in an area that you do
have very deep, intimateknowledge. And, and for me, it
was it was it was technology anddata and specifically, you know,
(11:01):
monitoring and observability.
Right. And so, you know, I thinkthat's probably the biggest tip
I can give is, why are you theperson in the entire world that
has a unique insight, somethingthat all the other people in the
space haven't really thoughtabout? And, and, you know, it's
really important to understandthat you do have to be an expert
in the field, to then go anditerate on the previous
(11:22):
platforms with the previoustechnologies in that field. So
that would probably be my numberone piece of advice is, you
know, make sure whatever you'vedone, up until now, make sure
that has has led to you having aunique insight and experience
and, and really, that you're anexpert in the field, so that you
can reliably go and make thatnext iteration. You know, for
(11:44):
me, if I weren't, you know,going back to the insurance
example, I would have to go inand learn the basics and
insurance. And, you know, yes, Icould go listen to a few YouTube
videos and, and try to read afew books. But realistically,
nothing's gonna go and replace,you know, years and years of
being in an industry andunderstanding it. And when I say
years and years, by the way, itdoesn't mean also that if you're
(12:06):
a younger generation, that youcan't go find something amazing,
right? Like, I would say, theyounger generation is, you know,
I haven't really been on socialmedia now. Except for LinkedIn,
which is, you know, obviouslysomething I have to be on, and
Twitter X. But like, otherwise,I haven't really been on
LinkedIn much. So, you know, ifsomeone wants to come in and be
a social media influencer,they're gonna be, you know, 100
(12:28):
times better than, than me atdoing that. Right. So, you know,
I think it just comes down towhat are your skill sets? What
are you very good at? What doyou understand better than, you
know, 99 out of 100 people onthe street, and really ensuring
that you are going into thatarea, and you have the ability
to go innovate in that area?
Matt Wolach (12:49):
Yeah, I think that's super smart. It's a it is
tough. When you try and startsomething, you try and do
something that you don't reallyhave a lot of understanding of
what's going on. So I think thatis really good. Do you find
investors? Key on that? Are theyasking you about your past
experience, even before youstarted this when they're when
they're looking at you for apossible investment? Yeah,
Ozan (13:09):
I think so. I mean, you know, the three big things we
talk about is the founding team,you know, we look at the market,
right? And, you know, reallyfrom there, it's, it's a little
bit about, you know, for this,this founding team, you know,
what, what gives them thatunique insight. And, you know, I
would say, if you look at, youknow, if you look at the
(13:34):
founding team, and even for ifyou're starting the fundraising
process, and you're looking attemplates for for pitch decks,
my, my advice is always going tobe for the seed pitch deck or
the precede pitch deck, youalways got to have your founding
team up front at the top of thedeck. And the reason being is
(13:55):
that I've seen a lot of thesepitch decks for seed where, you
know, and by the way, like,unfortunately, the way the world
works is, if you're doing aseries a or Series B, or Series
C, you've already kind of jumpedthrough that hoop of having
already fundraised, so itbecomes less important. But at
the beginning, anything you sayabout the problem statement, or
anything you say about youractual idea, the investor is
(14:16):
always going to have in the backof their head, and they're gonna
say, Well, who is this that'sactually making this claim? Who
is the person that's claimingall these things? Who are the
people that's claiming all thesethings? And so realistically,
you know, again, if, if you goback to the three of, of, you
know, the team and in themarket, and then what's the
unique insight, you know, maybethere's a fourth, which is the
idea itself, but the investorsare really not going to hone in
(14:38):
too much on that idea. First ofall, you know, they don't have
intimate knowledge of the space.
And second of all, we all knowthat idea evolves over time,
right? The also don't, don'tkill yourself coming up with the
perfect idea down to the minutdetail, because realistically,
you're gonna be learning thingsthrough the process. You're
gonna be going and gettingfeedback from early design
partners. So yeah, I would say,number one, first and For most
(14:58):
amongst everything else is makesure the team is up in that in
that kind of early, early partof your slide deck, they
understand what your backgroundis. And they can formulate in
their minds this belief that youcould be that person that
actually has a unique insight inthe space that nobody else has.
Yeah,
Matt Wolach (15:17):
I think that's huge. Investors always are
looking at the team, the blood,you invest in people you buy
from people, they're wanting tomake sure that you and your
team, absolutely know whatthey're doing, and somebody that
they can put their money behindthat they believe it's going to
work out. So thinking backthrough your journey of this
growth that you've gone through,what would you say? Those are
some of the best decisions youguys have made? What are the
(15:38):
best things you guys have donethat helps you accelerate and
get ahead?
Ozan (15:44):
I think early on some of the best decisions we made, and
some of the best hires we madeare people that have an
entrepreneurial mindset. Youknow, I think, you know, when
you talk about in the earlystages of a company, you want
kind of the jack of all trades,and then later on, you want kind
of specialists, I would say, youknow, even as you scale,
(16:08):
ensuring that people have thementality of an entrepreneur
mindset is probably one of thebest decisions we made is to
bring on board people like that.
And so, and it's even a decisionthat we're kind of renewing. Now
is that, you know, obviously,it's been a tough market for
startups for the last couple ofyears. And you do want people
that, you know, I think what wasit it was Elon Musk the other
(16:28):
day a video came out about him.
And I think he was saying, forstartups, it's like, staring
into the abyss and chewingglass, something along those
lines. So you know, that's true,right? I think, you know,
especially in a tough market,or, you know, every startup is
going to have phenomenal days,and they're gonna have dark
days, you do want to make surethat you surround yourself with
(16:48):
people that do have thatmentality of hey, not every day
is going to be, you know,popping bottles of champagne and
choosing and having fun, and youknow, partying, right? Sometimes
it really feels like you know,hey, the party's over. Like we
got we got it, we got to getback to work. So, you know,
ensuring that you have peoplewith that mindset. And with kind
of that entrepreneurial hustle.
That was probably one of thebest decisions we made early on.
Matt Wolach (17:12):
Yeah, I love that.
And it's so important,especially for a startup in that
early day. Those first few hiresthose early hires, they're not
working a standard nine to fivejob like they would be if they
went to work for some giantdeal. It's it's a, it's
Bootstrap. And they're basicallylike founders, they have to have
that entrepreneurial mindset towant to make it happen. I
totally agree. That's kind ofwhat I have felt as an early
(17:35):
leader in startups. It's whatI've felt when I've hired people
as the founder myself. It'sabsolutely critical. And I think
that, that's, I'm glad that youguys were able to find some of
those great people. So that'ssome of the good stuff. What
about some of the bad things?
What were some of the things youlook back on? You're like, Oh, I
wish we didn't do that. Yeah, Ithink,
Ozan (17:53):
you know, what I'd mentioned before is probably the
number one thing is, I think,steady scaling, and growing, is
going to be so much morepowerful and sustainable than
kind of this, you know, youknow, popping every single time
you get get funding, right? So Ithink, obviously, that's hard,
(18:16):
right? At a startup, sometimesyou don't know where you gonna
be next year, sometimes youdon't know where you gonna be
next month, right. So it isdifficult. But you know, one of
the things that really slowed usdown when we went into kind of
this, quote, unquote, hypergrowth mode would be, you know,
when you when you are saying,hey, every team needs to go to x
(18:36):
3x 4x. In a matter of, you know,a few months, everyone pretty
much stops working, and it's nottheir fault. They're just all of
a sudden, they're being pulledto go into interviews multiple
times a day into, you know,scouring their network to see if
you know, there's some highperformers that they can pull
from, you know, other projectsand other areas. And so, you
know, I would say that'sprobably the biggest mistake we
(18:58):
made is, you go into this, andall of a sudden, you're looking,
you're looking into your productroadmap, and you're like, Well,
why isn't this stuff progressingas much as I'd like it to? And
so, you know, I think, beingbeing healthy and balanced. And
making sure that you're alwayshiring and always building the
team, in a nice, structured andscalable way, is probably
(19:20):
something that we should weshould have done better.
Matt Wolach (19:23):
I love it. It's so hard, though. You're right, you
get so focused on on certainprojects and certain things
you're doing. It's justdifficult to stay on that. But I
love that. You talk about thebalance. I think that that's
really critical. I think back tomy startups, that's absolutely
something that I wish we werebetter at as well. So wrapping
up ozone, what advice would youhave for other software founders
who are in their early daystrying to grow and want to make
(19:45):
things happen?
Ozan (19:47):
Yeah, I mean, look, the number one thing as I mentioned
earlier would be make sure youare thinking about an area that
you do have pretty deepexperience and knowledge and
it's not that it's impossible.
Otherwise, it's just you'regoing to be very inefficient in
the early days, where you'regoing and learning, usually on
your own dollar if you've leftyour day job, right. And so, you
(20:08):
know, I would say, that's numberone thing. The other thing is
just, you know, don't be afraidto reach out to your network,
even people that I haven'ttalked to in years, if they
reach out, and they say, Hey,you know, I'd love your thoughts
on something. Or I'd love yourfeedback, or hey, you know, I
noticed you were connected thisperson on LinkedIn, you know,
how old? Do you know them? Wouldyou mind making a warm
(20:30):
introduction? You know, ifyou're going to be in the early
days of building a business, youknow, in many ways, there's not
a lot of room for pride, youhave to just kind of say, hey,
look, like, I need help. Andeven, you know, recently, you
know, I've, I've asked my boardfor help on certain things.
Right. So I think, you know, Ithink it's really important to
understand that, you know, atthe end of the day as as highly
(20:52):
performant, and as, you know, asmuch of a hustler, as you might
be, you know, everyone needshelp, I think, what was it, I
think there was an old ArnoldSchwarzenegger quote, something
along those lines, right, it waslike, you know, it basically
takes takes a whole team ofpeople were, you know, I think
(21:13):
when he was in his early days oflike, weightlifting and being
competitive, I think there wassomething along the lines of
like, they were pooling theirmoney together to be able to do
meals together, something likethat. So, you know, I should
probably understand that quote,a little bit better before
bringing it up. But maybe that'sa that's a fun little research
assignment for everyonelistening. But yeah, I think
that's, that's probably the bigthing is just, you know, it's
(21:35):
gonna be really hard. And, and,you know, that kind of takes us
to the other point, which is,you know, I would, I would
highly recommend, make sure youhave a good co founder that you
trust. And, you know, there aregoing to be those hard days,
those dark days where, you know,you feel down about it, and your
co founder can bring you up, andvice versa. And also, just, you
(21:56):
know, you want to make sure thatyou have someone that's that's
in it with you, right, like, Ihave a phenomenal co founder
Fati, he's amazing. And, youknow, I, I scared, you know, I'm
frightened. Think about on thebad days, you know, what kind of
decisions you'd make if youdidn't have that support system?
So yeah, I would say, you know,make sure you're an expert in
(22:19):
the area, I would say, make sureyou're out there hustling and
scaring your network and askingfor favors. And then yeah, make
sure I think that you have agood good one or two co founders
that can, you know, help balanceyou out when you're, you know,
when you're either depressed ornot in a good mood, or whatever
else, because, you know, it is atough, long journey. And, and
yet, like, like Elon said,right, it's just, you know,
(22:42):
staring into the abyss andchewing glass. So
Matt Wolach (22:48):
well said, It's so true. And I echo the co founder,
you absolutely having greatpartners is critical. It's so
cool how, how they can pick youup on those bad days, how they
can help you through the toughtimes how you can work on it
together and just create thisamazing bond. So I completely
agree with that. All's on thishas been amazing. Really. So so
awesome. Thank you so much forcoming in and sharing all your
(23:09):
wisdom with us? How can ouraudience learn more about you
and edge Delta?
Ozan (23:13):
Yeah, so go to our website, edgedelta.com that has
a ton of information about ourproduct about what makes us
unique in the market. You know,I always get excited about all
the kind of next generationthings that we're doing. There's
also like a concept of, youknow, effectively a bridge to
familiarity, where we also wantto do some basics, we want to
(23:34):
make sure that the users thatcome on board, they're looking
for a great solution andobservability for the locks
mentioned in traces, we want tomake sure also that it feels
familiar to them, right? So itcan't be all the way out in left
field, it has to be, you know,hey, look, I totally understand
how this is the same to theplayers like data dog. And I
totally understand also how it'sbetter in certain areas. So I
(23:55):
would say, definitely, you know,Edge delta.com as well, as you
know, obviously, I tried to postquite a bit on LinkedIn. So a
lot of our new upcoming featuresand roadmap items that we're
gonna be releasing, we try to bepretty pretty, you know, over
communicative and thoughtful onLinkedIn as well. So feel free
to reach out on LinkedIn, feelfree to go to our website. We
(24:16):
also have a wide open, free freesignup and trial. So you can try
the product you can use theproduct and you know if you do
that, definitely I would loveyour feedback there as well.
Okay,
Matt Wolach (24:28):
awesome. We'll put all that into the show notes in
the description. So if you'relistening or watching go check
that out. Like he said, go tryit out. Because see if this
products gonna help you. ButOzon thanks so much for coming
on the show. Really appreciateit.
Ozan (24:40):
All right. Thanks, man.
Matt Wolach (24:41):
Thanks for having me. You're welcome. And
everybody out there. Thanks forbeing here. As I mentioned, make
sure you're subscribed so youdon't miss out on any other
amazing leaders like Ozansharing their information,
sharing their love and, andtheir expertise with you. So
thank you for being here.
Appreciate it, and we'll see younext time. Take care
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.