May 25, 2020 • 36 mins
A hank heist scavenger hunt mixed with a frozen murdered ex, a couple of hoarders, a drug dealer, and a manipulative puppet master make up the cast of the true crime Netflix docuseries, Evil Genius: The True Story of America's Most Diabolical Bank Heist.
The Ladies of Scarlet tackle the story of Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong and her band of Merry Men as they cover-up murders, make a game of a bank robbery, and turn a common town into the epicenter of small town crime.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brittney Sherman (00:39):
alright.
I'm um I'm a little flustered.
Sonia Meza-Leon (00:47):
Uh,
Brittney Sherman (00:48):
I know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to you
guys right now because we don'tnecessarily release our episodes in
the order in which we record them.
But I was just thrown for a littlebit of a loop from our last recording.
So I got to kind of getback in the zone here.
Uh, Sanya kinda messedwith my head a little.
Sonia Meza-Leon (01:07):
Okay, well, this will definitely get you back in the
zone because what we're going to betalking about next, Brittany is I
think one of our favorite, docu-series
Brittney Sherman (01:16):
not my favorite, but,
Sonia Meza-Leon (01:18):
um, it's perplexing.
Oh,
Brittney Sherman (01:21):
yeah.
That's for sure.
Sonia Meza-Leon (01:23):
Yeah.
It's um, I mean, I, I felt a littlestrange at the end of it, but let's,
uh, let's start at the beginning.
What are we talking about?
Ready?
Brittney Sherman (01:31):
We are talking about the Netflix docu-series
by the Duplass brothers and
Sonia Meza-Leon (01:38):
I love them.
Brittney Sherman (01:40):
I'm calling them out specifically because
they are, they are awesome.
They make some reallygreat shows and movies.
Called evil genius.
Um, and this was, this was ashow that came out in, I don't
know, 17, 18, maybe 2018.
Okay.
So it's a lot of new one.
(02:01):
Um, but it's, it's really interesting.
Quick little, uh, Very high level, whatthe series seems like it's about and what
it's actually about are very different.
It seems like it's about the, wasit 2004, three, 2003, 2003 bank
(02:24):
robbery slash bombing that a hostagebombing, single person hostage, uh,
that I remember vaguely happened.
Sonia Meza-Leon (02:38):
And I don't remember that happening.
Brittney Sherman (02:41):
Yeah, I remember vaguely and you, my listeners might remember it.
It was the guy who was, uh, hada bomb strapped to his chest.
He had just robbed a bank.
And, um, there, I mean kind of like theiconic scenes of him are on the asphalt
between two squad cars, handcuffed sayinghe's got a bomb and it's going to explore.
(03:05):
And ultimately explodes.
So the documentary starts out seeminglylike it's going to be about that event,
but it's totally not about that at all.
I mean, it is, but not really.
Sonia Meza-Leon (03:18):
Yeah.
So the docu-series is called evil genius.
The true story of America'smost diabolical bank.
And even there, Brittany, like, to yourpoint, it's not what you think, but I'm
not even sure the name is accurate becauseI worry I'm like, how diabolical was it?
So this was a true story.
(03:39):
This really happened.
But really to your point, you know, Somuch bigger and so much smaller at the
same time, you know, like it's like, itwas such a white wine, you know, like
totally stupid, but, you know, I mean,Hey, it was a windy road to get there.
I will say that.
So this docu series centers around.
(04:02):
Weird cast of characters.
The first of course is the poordude who got blown up Brian Wells.
And, um, you know, he, this is inErie, Pennsylvania, so he was a guy,
you know, he's a pizza delivery guy.
Um, he, I mean, he, like Brittany said,you know, he's, we see that we have
a lot of footage of this guy becausewe know that he goes into a bank.
(04:25):
We know that he has a bombstrapped to his chest because
it's pretty obvious there's a.
On over the bond, but it's huge andit's a color, it's a color bomb.
So essentially it's a collar aroundhis neck that he can't get off.
And by the way, he also has a gunthat's in the shape of a king.
So he, how pray, tell did this gentlemanget like, this is what you're probably
(04:48):
asking, but we'll tell you about that.
He goes into the bank.
He demands money.
I think they give them some money.
Brittney Sherman (04:57):
Yeah, I think they do.
And I, he, he was sent into the bankwith this like long, almost like
manifesto that long and short of itwas give me $250,000 or I'm going to
blow up this bomb attached to my chest.
So I don't know what they actuallygive him, but they give him something.
(05:21):
I mean, I've always heardthat banks are insured.
So in those situations they'reessentially told, just do it.
Don't cause a panic there's that probablythat like explosive dye stuff in there.
Anyway, the bank is insured.
The police will be called instantly.
So he goes in, he gives the note,he gets the money you walks out and
(05:42):
pretty much police swarm instantly.
Sonia Meza-Leon (05:45):
So was weird about it.
You would say to yourself when yousee the footage of this dude, that
he doesn't look to be under any realstress entering in, he's got his cane.
Um, it would appear that.
Somehow or another, you know, itmaybe knows that either the bomb's
not real or he's, he doesn't, doesn'tappear to think that he's in any
(06:08):
danger, I guess is what I'll say.
Right.
He strolls in, he strolls out, he goesout to his car and the police swarm him.
I think he's sitting down in frontof his car on the, uh, there's a
lot of footage of this, by the way.
Yeah.
It's like what?
And then, uh, of coursehe's sitting there.
Yeah.
What starts happening, you know, theyput, I think, I don't know if they have
(06:29):
handcuffs on and he's sitting on theground, he's sitting on the ground.
The police have nofreaking idea what to do.
Cause they're terrified.
They're like, well, we know theguy's got a bomb somewhere and
we don't want to go up there.
Isn't real.
The guy doesn't seem tobe acting like it's real.
He doesn't seem to be in under any.
Except when it starts ticking.
Yeah.
And then he's like, I thinkthis thing's going to go off.
(06:51):
And this is when you kind of see theshift in him and it's like, oh shit.
Even.
So though
Brittney Sherman (06:56):
there's, there is somewhat of a shift in him, but it's
still less of a shift than I would expectfor someone who's about to be blown up
because he's like, Hey guys, no real.
It's going to explode asopposed to like, holy shit.
Oh my God, I'm going to die.
Get me outta here.
Like, there's not panic.
(07:17):
It's just, this is serious.
Come on.
You know, let's hurry this up.
Let's let's move this along
Sonia Meza-Leon (07:24):
that.
Well, exactly.
And let's remember that because.
There's conversations laterabout whether this gentleman, you
know, participated in this crime.
And I think that's a real tell thatI do feel like you, Brittany that up
into the minute where he got blown up.
I don't think he thought thathe was going to get blown up.
Brittney Sherman (07:44):
No, we'll, uh, we'll talk about that towards the end, because
that's how I kind of felt, but then.
Sonia Meza-Leon (07:56):
I don't know either.
So let's go with a cast of charactersbecause we've got the initial incident.
So let's talk a little bitof a mom, more of this, this
guy, he gets blown up he's um,
Brittney Sherman (08:07):
and by the way,
Sonia Meza-Leon (08:12):
Yeah, it's crazy.
He falls over the policeare like, what do we do?
You know, is he going to blow upagain or do we walk up to them?
Right.
I mean, how do we know if he's alive?
Do we help him?
Is he the victim or is he a criminal?
Like didn't even know.
I think they figured out after awhile by the look on his face, I'm
sure that he's no longer alive and.
(08:34):
Here's where I was like,whoa, that's crazy and weird.
So he's got a collar bomb on.
Right.
And so they, and rightly, so thesepolice are very concerned that
this thing might blow up again.
And if they take it off of himor try to manipulate the bomb
in any way, it could explode.
So they're scared.
Right?
(08:54):
So they cut his head off to get the ball.
On the, on the sidewalk essentially.
Yeah, right there, right therein the middle of shenanigans.
Just everybody.
Brittney Sherman (09:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, but also it's the, the cutis, I think they tried to remove
the collar because the, the, the.
Big backstory of this is, itwas actually kind of a game
where he had this collar on.
(09:28):
He was going to, he, he robbed thebank and then he was being sent on
a scavenger hunt of other places.
And he was going to get informationthat was going to lead him to the
keys so he could let himself outof the collar and it turned, and
there were four like locks on the.
(09:49):
Only two of them were evencapable of being unlocked.
So two of them werelike, just decoys anyway.
So part of that is what messedup with the officers too, is that
they didn't know if there was evenreally a way to get that collar off.
Sonia Meza-Leon (10:06):
Yeah.
And, and try not to move the guy.
And I hate rightly so.
You know, I don't reallyblame them and I think.
The family was pissed off, butit's an unusual circumstance.
And I think the police hadto do what they had to do to
make sure that they were safe.
Now we, we move along again.
(10:26):
Brittany's point we find paperworkin the car, um, uh, Brian Wells, and
we know that there's a bomb and it'spretty easy to dissect the pieces,
the flew everywhere and understand andpotentially figure out who made the bomb.
So that happens, right?
That's on the news.
That's known as the pizza bomber, so on.
(10:46):
And so.
Parallel to that.
Right?
We've got another case where we've got agentleman named bill Rothstein, call the
police and say, Hey, I need to tell youthat I got a dead body in my freezer and
this crazy woman, Marjorie deal Armstrong,who was my, or is my ex-girlfriend or not.
(11:12):
Maybe she's my girlfriend who knows.
I'm not really sure.
I'm not sure.
But she's with me and she made meput the body in the freezer and,
um, you know, I've been stallingfor time because I know it's wrong.
And the way I've been selling forcrime is time, time as I've been going
around, pretending like I'm buying meat,grinders, and other ways to do this body,
(11:33):
but let's be sure we freeze it for now.
Um, and so this is where itgets weird, man, the police.
Go over to bill Rothstein.
So the person who's talks aboutagain, Marjorie deal Armstrong.
We'll talk about her in a minute.
The police go over to his houseand he shows them around, gives
them a tour, including the tourof the freezer with the dead body.
(11:56):
So Brittany, who is in thefreezer, would you like to share.
Brittney Sherman (12:00):
Uh, so I have to admit, I have a little bit of a confession
to make, uh, this is the, this is thesecond time I've watched this series.
And the end of episode one is whenbill calls the police, the start-up
of episode two is when he startsshowing the police around his place.
(12:25):
I fell asleep watchingepisode two, the second time.
And watch it all the way through thefirst time I fell asleep the second
time, um, the, the victim, the bodyat this point is Marjorie deal.
Armstrong's another oneof her ex-boyfriends.
(12:51):
He was, he was her formerboyfriend at the time.
His last name is roadblock andtell you why you remember his
last name, but what's his first.
Sonia Meza-Leon (13:02):
Jeez, this gentleman's name and if they had been dating
apparently for quite a while.
So when we talk about Marjorie alittle bit, well, first of all, go,
can he stay with her for 10 years,but a changed route and was his name.
And he was folded up like a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich and put into
the freezer and kept there for a while.
While bill was, I guess, justtrying to figure out what to do with
Brittney Sherman (13:25):
Marjorie and.
Uh, so, okay.
This is a total sidebar.
I don't know why, but I kept onremembering, uh, James Rodin's last
name because I kept on calling itRodin, which I'm pretty sure it
was a name of a Godzilla Kaiju.
Sonia Meza-Leon (13:42):
That is exactly Britney.
You are in the band.
Brittney Sherman (13:45):
And that's how I kept I that's how I remembered his last name,
but clearly I forgot his first name.
Sonia Meza-Leon (13:49):
James it's spelled it is, but that's how I remember.
Yeah, Nana for sharing.
I think Rodin is, uh, the it's soundslike the French version of road.
And, but, uh, the road 10 is the threeheaded monster and that's another one.
There's
Brittney Sherman (14:08):
another one, 300 monsters and Godzilla.
Sonia Meza-Leon (14:11):
I'll send you a picture.
Yeah.
And I think that turtle has three heads.
Do they had a lot of thingsthat have had multiple heads.
Yeah.
I'll send you a picture of what I have.
Yeah.
Sorry guys.
Any who?
Back to the track.
So bill roster.
For some reason decides thathe wants to share with police.
You know, stop whateverhe's doing with Marjorie.
And he turns her in and, um, becausenot only does he show them where
(14:34):
the body is, but he tells them whoto ultimately murdered James Roden.
And he says it's Marjorie.
And it's pretty easy to seethat someone murdered James.
Because he didn't put himself in thefreezer and the x-ray x-ray him and
he's got shrapnel in his, uh, throat.
So apparently someone decided touse a shotgun to shoot James Roden
(14:57):
and then decided to either keephim on ice for whatever reason.
We'll talk about that later.
But, um, you know, this is whereBilly on scene and Marjorie, um,
you know, are obviously at odds.
You ask us, what would this haveto do with the pizza bomber case?
And we don't really realize until alittle bit later in the docu-series
(15:18):
that they actually do, because itappears that Marjorie and bill and, uh,
uh, a couple of other folks conspiredto, uh, and Marjorie will never admit
this, but conspired to do sort of dothe pizza heist or the, the bank ice.
It's so strange because you know,Marjorie's Marjorie deal arm from is
(15:45):
apparently a very intelligent person.
Yes.
A person who was very manipulative is, um,she doesn't appear to be a nice person.
So she, on, in her interviews oncamera it's, she's not very likable and
she, but loud, aggressive almost feltlike she had Tourette's a little bit.
Brittney Sherman (16:07):
It's very, very clear.
She has pretty significant mentalillness and she is it's indicative
and obvious that she is someone whoneeded help a long, long time ago.
And we will see that there was someone whoreally tried in earnest to get her help.
(16:31):
And.
Did everything right, but the systemkind of just spit her back out.
She is someone that she struggled becauseshe genuinely was extremely intelligent.
That's where the genius comes from, butvery manipulative and, uh, dealt with a
(16:56):
lot of, uh, contradicting mental healthconditions that caused her to be quite.
Sonia Meza-Leon (17:05):
Yeah.
Yeah, she was very persuasive.
Um, it's set.
So really the center of the story isabout, is really Marjorie deal Armstrong.
Apparently she was the mastermind behindthe whole thing and what's unknown.
I mean, She was doing this formoney because at one point I think
she hired a Hitman to kill her dad.
(17:25):
She was pissed off at him becausehe was giving away her inheritance.
And so she retaliated by trying to hireanother one of these cast of yokels.
Uh, Ken Barnes, herfishing, um, was my note.
And he's like, yeah, sure.
I'll kill your dad.
You know, he was said he wasjust bullshitting and she wasn't.
He was like, of course I'm not.
But, uh, she was really,
Brittney Sherman (17:45):
he was really serious is, uh, he, he was like a.
No local Erie, Pennsylvania.
Drug dealer, like he was known aroundtown in the seedy areas, uh, as being
like the go to guy to get your fix.
(18:07):
And he was a major, major addict himself.
And at one point they'd go to his.
And it is straight out of hoarders,like a, with all of the worst part
of hoarders that you can imagine,not just the stuff, but the Fil,
the grime, the rodents, the bugs.
(18:27):
And it was, eh, it was just awful.
And God bless anyone who trustedthe drugs that they got from this.
Sonia Meza-Leon (18:38):
Well, that's, what's weird about it because I don't know, maybe
it's the condition or whatever conditionis, but you know, that hoarder condition,
bill Rothstein had the same thing.
He and showed them around his house.
He had lived in the house for 55 years.
Like he probably didn't even seelike the floor in someone's our
house for 50 something years.
I mean, it was, and this is bill Rossiwas a very intelligent man again.
(19:00):
Some of these people are anyway, are veryintelligent, very manipulative, um, you
know, manipulated by Margarie apparently.
And, um, at some point, youknow, in this documentary Dr.
Series, his best friend is interviewedand he was like, I don't even know that.
But what's weird about bill rusty, youknow, because what we find is that, like
(19:20):
you said, there's all this documentation,there is exhaustive letters, um,
to the bank teller about the heist.
Like who's going to S so I don't,there are a lot of things that
are confusing about this to me.
Um, I don't understand, I getit, that they were sending
somebody on a wild goose chase.
(19:41):
So when they write this giantletter to the bank, Are they
expecting them to read it and it'swould take time for them to know.
I thought that too.
What's their point like who this is.
You're like, you know, you're makinga stand or whatever, but to who, like,
what do you think the bank teller isgoing to give a shit, you know, about
your, why you're compelled to exactly.
(20:04):
And it's weird.
And then the here's what Ialso have a problem with.
So the whole shenanigans with, youknow, the game, the scavenger hunt,
the police did a test and it wasa very, very simple test to do.
And the test.
How long would it take to go from pointa through the points, the listed on the
(20:24):
scavenger hunt to get to the end result.
And it was time that was more time thanthey had put on the timer on the bomb.
So Brian Wells would have never know.
So if these people are robbing a bank,so here's where I'm like Marjorie deal,
Armstrong KUKA Rue, for sure, because.
You know, if she's trying to killher dad because of the money.
(20:44):
Right.
And she many times will say inthis next two years, I'm rich.
Why would I need to do that?
You know, she lies a lot.
I mean, she can fix herself a lot.
First.
She says that she didn'tkill her boyfriend.
And then later on, she absolutelyadmits to it because they were
arguing about another woman.
And, but when you listen toboth, you know, the, both of the
interviews, it sounds exactly thesame mean she's a great writer.
(21:06):
I would have never thought she's,I mean, she's adamant, you know, I
mean she's, and she's crazy too, butshe's adamant that she didn't do.
And then she's like, yeah, I did it, youknow, and she was, she was proud of it.
The part that's weird about the bill Rossithing is again, a very intelligent man.
It sounds to me like it's fairly,we're fairly confident that bill
wrote the scavenger hunt letters andalso the letter to the bank teller,
(21:29):
um, you know, sort of this manifesto.
Right.
But, um, if Marjorie's the one whomasterminded this for money, if anybody
masterminded it for me, And theydidn't give this guy enough time to
fulfill it before they blew him up.
I'm
Brittney Sherman (21:44):
not sure.
Yeah.
I don't really know what the point was.
Either.
The scavenger hunt starts with a Wells.
You delivering a pizza per se,we're going to assume that because
that's ultimately, I think whatis kinda sorta decided happen.
(22:04):
Uh, and then to, to Marjorie Armstrong,he is confronted by four people,
Marjorie bill, and then two other guys.
Um, the one we just talked about,uh, Ken burns, Ken Barnes, and
then one other guy who was he?
A convicted sex offender whowas living with a bill, but so
(22:31):
essentially he just went along forthe ride because he was living there.
Um, essentially.
Sonia Meza-Leon (22:35):
But that's, what's weird about it.
Like why like, are theygoing to split it out?
Brittney Sherman (22:39):
Yeah.
Well, that's what I mean, but soessentially, so Wells leaves, he
goes to the bank, then they followhim and they have stakeout points.
So I'm wondering if they had no intentionof him finishing the scavenger hunt
and they were essentially just going tocorner him, take the money and then let.
Die with the bomb,
Sonia Meza-Leon (23:01):
but why go to the trouble of writing out the scavenger hunt?
And I think they found the piecesthat the scavenger hunt was
supposed to lead them to as well.
Didn't they did.
Brittney Sherman (23:08):
Yeah, that's true.
I agree.
But Wheeler, but you're so you'redealing with mentally unstable
people, particularly Marjorie,because, so not just James Rodin.
Did she kill.
She had two previous boyfriendsthat wound up dead one.
(23:30):
She went to trial for his murder andwas ultimately found not guilty, but
her defense attorney in that trialtried and tried and tried to get her
committed to a mental facility because asa psychiatric facility, Because he knew
she was not right and she needed help.
(23:52):
And I think she spent like 10 days ina psychiatric facility, but ultimately
was determined not to be severe enough.
So it was spit back out into society.
And he's interviewed later onin the series towards the end
and essentially says, I knew.
20 years ago, or whenever it waswhen I defended her, this woman was
(24:14):
violent and dangerous and had a mentalhealth condition and needed help,
but they just didn't believe me.
And didn't find her severe enough.
And now look where we're at.
Sonia Meza-Leon (24:24):
I think that happens a lot.
I mean, yeah, we
Brittney Sherman (24:28):
hear about that frequently way more often than not.
Sonia Meza-Leon (24:31):
Yep.
So, I mean, that's, that'spretty much the, the short of it.
I mean, there are a lot of meanderingsin the docu-series there's a lot of
video of her yelling and talking.
Trying to compel somebody to do somethingfor, I don't even know sometimes
Brittney Sherman (24:48):
what the, and that's the, that's kinda the,
the, the thing about this yearis that it's, it's worth a watch.
But when you said, like, it's one of ourfavorites, I can't say it's one of my
favorites because it's, it's compelling.
It's interesting.
The first episode is really interestingin it's all about the bombing.
(25:09):
And then it ends on this hugecliffhanger of bill Rothstein calling
the police like, whoa, what doesthis have anything to do with it?
And then episode two is all aboutMarjorie, even though I fell asleep.
Second viewing of it.
It's all about her and like her previousmysterious boyfriend deaths and the one
(25:31):
that, uh, she killed, possibly killed, uh,because she wanted him to, uh, murder her
father so she could get his inheritance,even though he wrote her out of his will.
Uh, and then episode threeand four is kind of just.
(25:51):
Marjorie, just kind of ranting andraving and other people that she
shared cells with and other peoplethat these other guys shared prison
cells with being interviewed andsaying, yeah, this is what they said.
And these are the letters wewrote, but it doesn't really
introduce any new information.
Uh, no, it doesn't.
(26:13):
It.
Sonia Meza-Leon (26:14):
I mean, but I mean, for the, for the first time
I watched it, I really like it.
So I would say, take Alyssa,take a, listen, take a look.
I mean, do you want to sharewhat the outcome is or,
Brittney Sherman (26:25):
well, yeah, because I think honestly the, I don't want
to negate the last two episodes.
There's only, it's only four episodes,so it's a pretty quick watch.
Um, but the.
The most compelling part ofthe fourth episode is trying to
identify whether or not Wells iswhat was party to the initial plot.
(26:46):
And I think officially criminally,he was neither, even though he was
dead, he was neither posthumously.
Accused nor acquitted of being involved.
There wasn't enough evidenceone way or the other.
Uh, and his family is very vocal in court,just yelling at the, the judge when he
(27:08):
suggests that he may have been involved.
And so.
Yeah.
On one hand, just before the showwraps, it seems pretty conclusive
that he was not party to the crime.
He showed up to deliver apizza as part of his job.
(27:29):
And he was conned intoessentially, he was, he was
forced into wearing this bomb and.
Going on this scavenger hunt, uh, earlierthey talk about how he was involved in
the planning that seem to be negated.
However, one of the very lastthings that they talk about in this
(27:53):
series is there's a woman who isan eerie PA prostitute, who was a.
Frequent welds was afrequent client of hers.
Uh, and they became actuallylike really good friends.
Like they genuinely hung out and she wouldget groceries for his elderly parents.
(28:20):
Um, and then she became pregnantright around the time that he died
and she thinks he's the father,but he, uh, Again, what the heck's
the drug dealers name again?
I'm so terrible with this.
His name's Ken barns.
Here's how
Sonia Meza-Leon (28:38):
they sort of, I understood.
They knew each other.
Jessica, so-and-so the prostitute.
Was getting drugs from Ken Barnes.
So she would essentially come in Kenand I, if I'm not mistaken, Brian Wells
lived or hung out with Ken Barnes too.
So she would hook up with Brian Wells.
They would have sex upstairs.
(28:59):
She would take that money and godownstairs to Ken Barnes and get
drugs, and then she would do them.
Yeah.
So what I understood happenedwas that at some point, Marjorie
and maybe bill who knows.
Came over to Ken Barnes house andsaid, we need some idiot to, you know,
(29:20):
sort of be the person who's goingto go to the bank for us at the time
Jessica was there and she heard her.
It appears that Jessica May havebeen the person that suggested
Brian Wells, which he says
Brittney Sherman (29:32):
great regret
Sonia Meza-Leon (29:33):
for.
So when Brian Wells came up with, sothey essentially ordered a pizza and
they, then they took the pizza guy andkind of held them hostage and threw
a bomb on him and made him go do it.
I think they werefamiliar with each other.
Brian Wells obviously knew Ken Barnes,Ken Barnes was warned was there.
So there was some familiaritywhen you drove up with a pizza,
(29:54):
which by the way, it was likereally close to bill Rossi towels.
He had to have seen Ken Barnes.
He knew him.
Right.
So he's got to feel some comfort.
Brittney Sherman (30:03):
I mean, I think this was a, it was like a pretty small town
in, especially like this neighborhood.
It was like the type of neighborhoodwhere everyone knows each other.
So I don't think any ofthese guys were stranger.
Sonia Meza-Leon (30:13):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think when Brian walked upwith the pizza, if I, I understood
they had a slice of pizza andthen they kind of ambushed him.
But I think that they told them all along.
It wasn't real because if theywould, he would add any inclination
that that bomb was going to go off.
His, his actions wouldhave been very different,
Brittney Sherman (30:30):
I would think so, but they did see or
Sonia Meza-Leon (30:33):
drive to the police.
So if I, if I, I would never get in acar with, uh, something that, that may
or may not be a bomb and drive and godo what they said, I would try that.
Brittney Sherman (30:43):
But I think they did say that he did have a certain level of
cognitive impairment and may not have, hemay have known, but may not have wanted
to question them and may have believedthat if he just went along with their
plan, everything would have been okay.
Sonia Meza-Leon (30:57):
Yeah, no, for sure.
And I'm not sure when, I mean it,did they give him the paperwork
and say here's the scavenger huntand was the first stop the bank.
And that's what.
Oh, so maybe it was just a game all along.
It's just really strange.
Cause he's on guys.
He's on video, man.
He's like, they're looking straight inyou in camera saying, you know, guys,
guys, I think something's happening here.
(31:20):
And it's like, and then all that.
I mean, he, I really feltlike he never his face.
He never had until the very secondwhere that thing blew up, he really
had any idea it was going to blow up.
Yeah,
Brittney Sherman (31:32):
I agree.
I think he knew that.
I think towards the end, he knew thiswas a real bomb, but I don't know if
he knew that it was like imminent.
Sonia Meza-Leon (31:43):
Alrighty.
Well, Scarlett is, that was apretty short little episode.
I have a couple of shout outs I wantto do so, uh, maybe we'll keep going.
Okay.
All right.
I want to do a couple shout outs to somenew friends that I've made recently.
I want to give a shoutout to music city 9 1 1.
Brandon Hall is the host and hehas a periodic co-host as well.
(32:05):
He is a nine 11 dispatcherin Nashville, Tennessee.
And I would just love to sort oftell you guys to take a listen.
I, so he's a real nine 11 operator.
So the stories that he had,obviously perplexing and really
entertaining in my opinion.
And he's just a real nice guy.
And his voice is really, really lovely.
So highly suggest those guys givethem a shout out and we have a promo
(32:29):
for them at the end of our episode.
So you guys can take a listen,get a little familiar with them.
And then I also want to givea shout out to my group.
Katelyn Dowdy.
Now she doesn't know she's mine, but Itell her right now, um, I, she does a
YouTube series called a mortician and.
I'm not sure if I counted corpse aspart of asking mortician or it's a
(32:51):
separate sort of, you know, thinksshe does, but she's a mortician.
I think she lives in LA and she's gother own funeral home with a partner.
And, um, I find her to be really,really, really fascinating.
And I know it sounds really gruesome,but there are questions that I have a.
That stuff that I've always wanted to askand her YouTube videos are so informative
(33:15):
and she's got a huge following, but, um,I really, I really find her interesting,
like the other day I will readily admitI watched a video that she did about how
they keep your mouth shut when you're, um,you know, being prepared for reviewing.
And, um, it was, I know that'sreally gruesome and crazy,
but it was really interesting.
So I am,
Brittney Sherman (33:36):
I'm not going to tell you, you have to watch it.
I can't.
That was the proper answer.
Sonia Meza-Leon (33:40):
Yeah.
Just watch it, please watch it.
But she's really awesome.
I'm hoping Brittany, since she's in LAand we're in LA, that we could at some
point do a little interview and meet eachother because yeah, she's really cool.
And I love her observations andshe's just really informative.
So yeah, you Caitlyn Dowdy and iconiccorpse and ask mortician, check her out.
Brittney Sherman (34:03):
All right.
It's Carlitos as always.
Thanks for checking this out.
Um, I think you're going to be hearingsome more promos from us in the future.
We are really enjoying, connectingwith other independent podcasters
and supporting one another.
So if you have suggestions or areinterested in being promoted on Scarlet
(34:24):
TCP and would like to do a promo swap,we would love to hear from you, uh, hit
us up on social media, Twitter, Facebook,Instagram, and listen to us on every
platform where podcasts are available.
Sonya, anything else?
Sonia Meza-Leon (34:42):
No, this has been very enjoyable.
Hi, you guys, our audience,I have to give them credit.
They I've been hearing somewonderful things from people lately,
so we really appreciate all yoursupport, so, uh, keep killing it.
Scarlet owes.
Brittney Sherman (34:55):
All right.
Thank you.
Sonia Meza-Leon (35:07):
Hey, y'all I'm Brandon Hall.
I'm one of the hosts of music city,nine 11, a podcast about the good,
the bad, and the dark side of nine 11.
Dispatching me and my co-hostsare 9 1 1 dispatchers.
With over 60 years of experience, joinus as we play 9 1 1 calls and discuss.
Oh, did I mention thatwe get dark nine 11?
(35:30):
What's your emergency?
(36:04):
you can find us on Facebook, Twitter,and Instagram at music city nominal one.
And we're downloadable onevery podcast platform.
alright.
I'm um I'm a little flustered.
Sonia Meza-Leon (00:47):
Uh,
Brittney Sherman (00:48):
I know it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to you
guys right now because we don'tnecessarily release our episodes in
the order in which we record them.
But I was just thrown for a littlebit of a loop from our last recording.
So I got to kind of getback in the zone here.
Uh, Sanya kinda messedwith my head a little.
Sonia Meza-Leon (01:07):
Okay, well, this will definitely get you back in the
zone because what we're going to betalking about next, Brittany is I
think one of our favorite, docu-series
Brittney Sherman (01:16):
not my favorite, but,
Sonia Meza-Leon (01:18):
um, it's perplexing.
Oh,
Brittney Sherman (01:21):
yeah.
That's for sure.
Sonia Meza-Leon (01:23):
Yeah.
It's um, I mean, I, I felt a littlestrange at the end of it, but let's,
uh, let's start at the beginning.
What are we talking about?
Ready?
Brittney Sherman (01:31):
We are talking about the Netflix docu-series
by the Duplass brothers and
Sonia Meza-Leon (01:38):
I love them.
Brittney Sherman (01:40):
I'm calling them out specifically because
they are, they are awesome.
They make some reallygreat shows and movies.
Called evil genius.
Um, and this was, this was ashow that came out in, I don't
know, 17, 18, maybe 2018.
Okay.
So it's a lot of new one.
(02:01):
Um, but it's, it's really interesting.
Quick little, uh, Very high level, whatthe series seems like it's about and what
it's actually about are very different.
It seems like it's about the, wasit 2004, three, 2003, 2003 bank
(02:24):
robbery slash bombing that a hostagebombing, single person hostage, uh,
that I remember vaguely happened.
Sonia Meza-Leon (02:38):
And I don't remember that happening.
Brittney Sherman (02:41):
Yeah, I remember vaguely and you, my listeners might remember it.
It was the guy who was, uh, hada bomb strapped to his chest.
He had just robbed a bank.
And, um, there, I mean kind of like theiconic scenes of him are on the asphalt
between two squad cars, handcuffed sayinghe's got a bomb and it's going to explore.
(03:05):
And ultimately explodes.
So the documentary starts out seeminglylike it's going to be about that event,
but it's totally not about that at all.
I mean, it is, but not really.
Sonia Meza-Leon (03:18):
Yeah.
So the docu-series is called evil genius.
The true story of America'smost diabolical bank.
And even there, Brittany, like, to yourpoint, it's not what you think, but I'm
not even sure the name is accurate becauseI worry I'm like, how diabolical was it?
So this was a true story.
(03:39):
This really happened.
But really to your point, you know, Somuch bigger and so much smaller at the
same time, you know, like it's like, itwas such a white wine, you know, like
totally stupid, but, you know, I mean,Hey, it was a windy road to get there.
I will say that.
So this docu series centers around.
(04:02):
Weird cast of characters.
The first of course is the poordude who got blown up Brian Wells.
And, um, you know, he, this is inErie, Pennsylvania, so he was a guy,
you know, he's a pizza delivery guy.
Um, he, I mean, he, like Brittany said,you know, he's, we see that we have
a lot of footage of this guy becausewe know that he goes into a bank.
(04:25):
We know that he has a bombstrapped to his chest because
it's pretty obvious there's a.
On over the bond, but it's huge andit's a color, it's a color bomb.
So essentially it's a collar aroundhis neck that he can't get off.
And by the way, he also has a gunthat's in the shape of a king.
So he, how pray, tell did this gentlemanget like, this is what you're probably
(04:48):
asking, but we'll tell you about that.
He goes into the bank.
He demands money.
I think they give them some money.
Brittney Sherman (04:57):
Yeah, I think they do.
And I, he, he was sent into the bankwith this like long, almost like
manifesto that long and short of itwas give me $250,000 or I'm going to
blow up this bomb attached to my chest.
So I don't know what they actuallygive him, but they give him something.
(05:21):
I mean, I've always heardthat banks are insured.
So in those situations they'reessentially told, just do it.
Don't cause a panic there's that probablythat like explosive dye stuff in there.
Anyway, the bank is insured.
The police will be called instantly.
So he goes in, he gives the note,he gets the money you walks out and
(05:42):
pretty much police swarm instantly.
Sonia Meza-Leon (05:45):
So was weird about it.
You would say to yourself when yousee the footage of this dude, that
he doesn't look to be under any realstress entering in, he's got his cane.
Um, it would appear that.
Somehow or another, you know, itmaybe knows that either the bomb's
not real or he's, he doesn't, doesn'tappear to think that he's in any
(06:08):
danger, I guess is what I'll say.
Right.
He strolls in, he strolls out, he goesout to his car and the police swarm him.
I think he's sitting down in frontof his car on the, uh, there's a
lot of footage of this, by the way.
Yeah.
It's like what?
And then, uh, of coursehe's sitting there.
Yeah.
What starts happening, you know, theyput, I think, I don't know if they have
(06:29):
handcuffs on and he's sitting on theground, he's sitting on the ground.
The police have nofreaking idea what to do.
Cause they're terrified.
They're like, well, we know theguy's got a bomb somewhere and
we don't want to go up there.
Isn't real.
The guy doesn't seem tobe acting like it's real.
He doesn't seem to be in under any.
Except when it starts ticking.
Yeah.
And then he's like, I thinkthis thing's going to go off.
(06:51):
And this is when you kind of see theshift in him and it's like, oh shit.
Even.
So though
Brittney Sherman (06:56):
there's, there is somewhat of a shift in him, but it's
still less of a shift than I would expectfor someone who's about to be blown up
because he's like, Hey guys, no real.
It's going to explode asopposed to like, holy shit.
Oh my God, I'm going to die.
Get me outta here.
Like, there's not panic.
(07:17):
It's just, this is serious.
Come on.
You know, let's hurry this up.
Let's let's move this along
Sonia Meza-Leon (07:24):
that.
Well, exactly.
And let's remember that because.
There's conversations laterabout whether this gentleman, you
know, participated in this crime.
And I think that's a real tell thatI do feel like you, Brittany that up
into the minute where he got blown up.
I don't think he thought thathe was going to get blown up.
Brittney Sherman (07:44):
No, we'll, uh, we'll talk about that towards the end, because
that's how I kind of felt, but then.
Sonia Meza-Leon (07:56):
I don't know either.
So let's go with a cast of charactersbecause we've got the initial incident.
So let's talk a little bitof a mom, more of this, this
guy, he gets blown up he's um,
Brittney Sherman (08:07):
and by the way,
Sonia Meza-Leon (08:12):
Yeah, it's crazy.
He falls over the policeare like, what do we do?
You know, is he going to blow upagain or do we walk up to them?
Right.
I mean, how do we know if he's alive?
Do we help him?
Is he the victim or is he a criminal?
Like didn't even know.
I think they figured out after awhile by the look on his face, I'm
sure that he's no longer alive and.
(08:34):
Here's where I was like,whoa, that's crazy and weird.
So he's got a collar bomb on.
Right.
And so they, and rightly, so thesepolice are very concerned that
this thing might blow up again.
And if they take it off of himor try to manipulate the bomb
in any way, it could explode.
So they're scared.
Right?
(08:54):
So they cut his head off to get the ball.
On the, on the sidewalk essentially.
Yeah, right there, right therein the middle of shenanigans.
Just everybody.
Brittney Sherman (09:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, but also it's the, the cutis, I think they tried to remove
the collar because the, the, the.
Big backstory of this is, itwas actually kind of a game
where he had this collar on.
(09:28):
He was going to, he, he robbed thebank and then he was being sent on
a scavenger hunt of other places.
And he was going to get informationthat was going to lead him to the
keys so he could let himself outof the collar and it turned, and
there were four like locks on the.
(09:49):
Only two of them were evencapable of being unlocked.
So two of them werelike, just decoys anyway.
So part of that is what messedup with the officers too, is that
they didn't know if there was evenreally a way to get that collar off.
Sonia Meza-Leon (10:06):
Yeah.
And, and try not to move the guy.
And I hate rightly so.
You know, I don't reallyblame them and I think.
The family was pissed off, butit's an unusual circumstance.
And I think the police hadto do what they had to do to
make sure that they were safe.
Now we, we move along again.
(10:26):
Brittany's point we find paperworkin the car, um, uh, Brian Wells, and
we know that there's a bomb and it'spretty easy to dissect the pieces,
the flew everywhere and understand andpotentially figure out who made the bomb.
So that happens, right?
That's on the news.
That's known as the pizza bomber, so on.
(10:46):
And so.
Parallel to that.
Right?
We've got another case where we've got agentleman named bill Rothstein, call the
police and say, Hey, I need to tell youthat I got a dead body in my freezer and
this crazy woman, Marjorie deal Armstrong,who was my, or is my ex-girlfriend or not.
(11:12):
Maybe she's my girlfriend who knows.
I'm not really sure.
I'm not sure.
But she's with me and she made meput the body in the freezer and,
um, you know, I've been stallingfor time because I know it's wrong.
And the way I've been selling forcrime is time, time as I've been going
around, pretending like I'm buying meat,grinders, and other ways to do this body,
(11:33):
but let's be sure we freeze it for now.
Um, and so this is where itgets weird, man, the police.
Go over to bill Rothstein.
So the person who's talks aboutagain, Marjorie deal Armstrong.
We'll talk about her in a minute.
The police go over to his houseand he shows them around, gives
them a tour, including the tourof the freezer with the dead body.
(11:56):
So Brittany, who is in thefreezer, would you like to share.
Brittney Sherman (12:00):
Uh, so I have to admit, I have a little bit of a confession
to make, uh, this is the, this is thesecond time I've watched this series.
And the end of episode one is whenbill calls the police, the start-up
of episode two is when he startsshowing the police around his place.
(12:25):
I fell asleep watchingepisode two, the second time.
And watch it all the way through thefirst time I fell asleep the second
time, um, the, the victim, the bodyat this point is Marjorie deal.
Armstrong's another oneof her ex-boyfriends.
(12:51):
He was, he was her formerboyfriend at the time.
His last name is roadblock andtell you why you remember his
last name, but what's his first.
Sonia Meza-Leon (13:02):
Jeez, this gentleman's name and if they had been dating
apparently for quite a while.
So when we talk about Marjorie alittle bit, well, first of all, go,
can he stay with her for 10 years,but a changed route and was his name.
And he was folded up like a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich and put into
the freezer and kept there for a while.
While bill was, I guess, justtrying to figure out what to do with
Brittney Sherman (13:25):
Marjorie and.
Uh, so, okay.
This is a total sidebar.
I don't know why, but I kept onremembering, uh, James Rodin's last
name because I kept on calling itRodin, which I'm pretty sure it
was a name of a Godzilla Kaiju.
Sonia Meza-Leon (13:42):
That is exactly Britney.
You are in the band.
Brittney Sherman (13:45):
And that's how I kept I that's how I remembered his last name,
but clearly I forgot his first name.
Sonia Meza-Leon (13:49):
James it's spelled it is, but that's how I remember.
Yeah, Nana for sharing.
I think Rodin is, uh, the it's soundslike the French version of road.
And, but, uh, the road 10 is the threeheaded monster and that's another one.
There's
Brittney Sherman (14:08):
another one, 300 monsters and Godzilla.
Sonia Meza-Leon (14:11):
I'll send you a picture.
Yeah.
And I think that turtle has three heads.
Do they had a lot of thingsthat have had multiple heads.
Yeah.
I'll send you a picture of what I have.
Yeah.
Sorry guys.
Any who?
Back to the track.
So bill roster.
For some reason decides thathe wants to share with police.
You know, stop whateverhe's doing with Marjorie.
And he turns her in and, um, becausenot only does he show them where
(14:34):
the body is, but he tells them whoto ultimately murdered James Roden.
And he says it's Marjorie.
And it's pretty easy to seethat someone murdered James.
Because he didn't put himself in thefreezer and the x-ray x-ray him and
he's got shrapnel in his, uh, throat.
So apparently someone decided touse a shotgun to shoot James Roden
(14:57):
and then decided to either keephim on ice for whatever reason.
We'll talk about that later.
But, um, you know, this is whereBilly on scene and Marjorie, um,
you know, are obviously at odds.
You ask us, what would this haveto do with the pizza bomber case?
And we don't really realize until alittle bit later in the docu-series
(15:18):
that they actually do, because itappears that Marjorie and bill and, uh,
uh, a couple of other folks conspiredto, uh, and Marjorie will never admit
this, but conspired to do sort of dothe pizza heist or the, the bank ice.
It's so strange because you know,Marjorie's Marjorie deal arm from is
(15:45):
apparently a very intelligent person.
Yes.
A person who was very manipulative is, um,she doesn't appear to be a nice person.
So she, on, in her interviews oncamera it's, she's not very likable and
she, but loud, aggressive almost feltlike she had Tourette's a little bit.
Brittney Sherman (16:07):
It's very, very clear.
She has pretty significant mentalillness and she is it's indicative
and obvious that she is someone whoneeded help a long, long time ago.
And we will see that there was someone whoreally tried in earnest to get her help.
(16:31):
And.
Did everything right, but the systemkind of just spit her back out.
She is someone that she struggled becauseshe genuinely was extremely intelligent.
That's where the genius comes from, butvery manipulative and, uh, dealt with a
(16:56):
lot of, uh, contradicting mental healthconditions that caused her to be quite.
Sonia Meza-Leon (17:05):
Yeah.
Yeah, she was very persuasive.
Um, it's set.
So really the center of the story isabout, is really Marjorie deal Armstrong.
Apparently she was the mastermind behindthe whole thing and what's unknown.
I mean, She was doing this formoney because at one point I think
she hired a Hitman to kill her dad.
(17:25):
She was pissed off at him becausehe was giving away her inheritance.
And so she retaliated by trying to hireanother one of these cast of yokels.
Uh, Ken Barnes, herfishing, um, was my note.
And he's like, yeah, sure.
I'll kill your dad.
You know, he was said he wasjust bullshitting and she wasn't.
He was like, of course I'm not.
But, uh, she was really,
Brittney Sherman (17:45):
he was really serious is, uh, he, he was like a.
No local Erie, Pennsylvania.
Drug dealer, like he was known aroundtown in the seedy areas, uh, as being
like the go to guy to get your fix.
(18:07):
And he was a major, major addict himself.
And at one point they'd go to his.
And it is straight out of hoarders,like a, with all of the worst part
of hoarders that you can imagine,not just the stuff, but the Fil,
the grime, the rodents, the bugs.
(18:27):
And it was, eh, it was just awful.
And God bless anyone who trustedthe drugs that they got from this.
Sonia Meza-Leon (18:38):
Well, that's, what's weird about it because I don't know, maybe
it's the condition or whatever conditionis, but you know, that hoarder condition,
bill Rothstein had the same thing.
He and showed them around his house.
He had lived in the house for 55 years.
Like he probably didn't even seelike the floor in someone's our
house for 50 something years.
I mean, it was, and this is bill Rossiwas a very intelligent man again.
(19:00):
Some of these people are anyway, are veryintelligent, very manipulative, um, you
know, manipulated by Margarie apparently.
And, um, at some point, youknow, in this documentary Dr.
Series, his best friend is interviewedand he was like, I don't even know that.
But what's weird about bill rusty, youknow, because what we find is that, like
(19:20):
you said, there's all this documentation,there is exhaustive letters, um,
to the bank teller about the heist.
Like who's going to S so I don't,there are a lot of things that
are confusing about this to me.
Um, I don't understand, I getit, that they were sending
somebody on a wild goose chase.
(19:41):
So when they write this giantletter to the bank, Are they
expecting them to read it and it'swould take time for them to know.
I thought that too.
What's their point like who this is.
You're like, you know, you're makinga stand or whatever, but to who, like,
what do you think the bank teller isgoing to give a shit, you know, about
your, why you're compelled to exactly.
(20:04):
And it's weird.
And then the here's what Ialso have a problem with.
So the whole shenanigans with, youknow, the game, the scavenger hunt,
the police did a test and it wasa very, very simple test to do.
And the test.
How long would it take to go from pointa through the points, the listed on the
(20:24):
scavenger hunt to get to the end result.
And it was time that was more time thanthey had put on the timer on the bomb.
So Brian Wells would have never know.
So if these people are robbing a bank,so here's where I'm like Marjorie deal,
Armstrong KUKA Rue, for sure, because.
You know, if she's trying to killher dad because of the money.
(20:44):
Right.
And she many times will say inthis next two years, I'm rich.
Why would I need to do that?
You know, she lies a lot.
I mean, she can fix herself a lot.
First.
She says that she didn'tkill her boyfriend.
And then later on, she absolutelyadmits to it because they were
arguing about another woman.
And, but when you listen toboth, you know, the, both of the
interviews, it sounds exactly thesame mean she's a great writer.
(21:06):
I would have never thought she's,I mean, she's adamant, you know, I
mean she's, and she's crazy too, butshe's adamant that she didn't do.
And then she's like, yeah, I did it, youknow, and she was, she was proud of it.
The part that's weird about the bill Rossithing is again, a very intelligent man.
It sounds to me like it's fairly,we're fairly confident that bill
wrote the scavenger hunt letters andalso the letter to the bank teller,
(21:29):
um, you know, sort of this manifesto.
Right.
But, um, if Marjorie's the one whomasterminded this for money, if anybody
masterminded it for me, And theydidn't give this guy enough time to
fulfill it before they blew him up.
I'm
Brittney Sherman (21:44):
not sure.
Yeah.
I don't really know what the point was.
Either.
The scavenger hunt starts with a Wells.
You delivering a pizza per se,we're going to assume that because
that's ultimately, I think whatis kinda sorta decided happen.
(22:04):
Uh, and then to, to Marjorie Armstrong,he is confronted by four people,
Marjorie bill, and then two other guys.
Um, the one we just talked about,uh, Ken burns, Ken Barnes, and
then one other guy who was he?
A convicted sex offender whowas living with a bill, but so
(22:31):
essentially he just went along forthe ride because he was living there.
Um, essentially.
Sonia Meza-Leon (22:35):
But that's, what's weird about it.
Like why like, are theygoing to split it out?
Brittney Sherman (22:39):
Yeah.
Well, that's what I mean, but soessentially, so Wells leaves, he
goes to the bank, then they followhim and they have stakeout points.
So I'm wondering if they had no intentionof him finishing the scavenger hunt
and they were essentially just going tocorner him, take the money and then let.
Die with the bomb,
Sonia Meza-Leon (23:01):
but why go to the trouble of writing out the scavenger hunt?
And I think they found the piecesthat the scavenger hunt was
supposed to lead them to as well.
Didn't they did.
Brittney Sherman (23:08):
Yeah, that's true.
I agree.
But Wheeler, but you're so you'redealing with mentally unstable
people, particularly Marjorie,because, so not just James Rodin.
Did she kill.
She had two previous boyfriendsthat wound up dead one.
(23:30):
She went to trial for his murder andwas ultimately found not guilty, but
her defense attorney in that trialtried and tried and tried to get her
committed to a mental facility because asa psychiatric facility, Because he knew
she was not right and she needed help.
(23:52):
And I think she spent like 10 days ina psychiatric facility, but ultimately
was determined not to be severe enough.
So it was spit back out into society.
And he's interviewed later onin the series towards the end
and essentially says, I knew.
20 years ago, or whenever it waswhen I defended her, this woman was
(24:14):
violent and dangerous and had a mentalhealth condition and needed help,
but they just didn't believe me.
And didn't find her severe enough.
And now look where we're at.
Sonia Meza-Leon (24:24):
I think that happens a lot.
I mean, yeah, we
Brittney Sherman (24:28):
hear about that frequently way more often than not.
Sonia Meza-Leon (24:31):
Yep.
So, I mean, that's, that'spretty much the, the short of it.
I mean, there are a lot of meanderingsin the docu-series there's a lot of
video of her yelling and talking.
Trying to compel somebody to do somethingfor, I don't even know sometimes
Brittney Sherman (24:48):
what the, and that's the, that's kinda the,
the, the thing about this yearis that it's, it's worth a watch.
But when you said, like, it's one of ourfavorites, I can't say it's one of my
favorites because it's, it's compelling.
It's interesting.
The first episode is really interestingin it's all about the bombing.
(25:09):
And then it ends on this hugecliffhanger of bill Rothstein calling
the police like, whoa, what doesthis have anything to do with it?
And then episode two is all aboutMarjorie, even though I fell asleep.
Second viewing of it.
It's all about her and like her previousmysterious boyfriend deaths and the one
(25:31):
that, uh, she killed, possibly killed, uh,because she wanted him to, uh, murder her
father so she could get his inheritance,even though he wrote her out of his will.
Uh, and then episode threeand four is kind of just.
(25:51):
Marjorie, just kind of ranting andraving and other people that she
shared cells with and other peoplethat these other guys shared prison
cells with being interviewed andsaying, yeah, this is what they said.
And these are the letters wewrote, but it doesn't really
introduce any new information.
Uh, no, it doesn't.
(26:13):
It.
Sonia Meza-Leon (26:14):
I mean, but I mean, for the, for the first time
I watched it, I really like it.
So I would say, take Alyssa,take a, listen, take a look.
I mean, do you want to sharewhat the outcome is or,
Brittney Sherman (26:25):
well, yeah, because I think honestly the, I don't want
to negate the last two episodes.
There's only, it's only four episodes,so it's a pretty quick watch.
Um, but the.
The most compelling part ofthe fourth episode is trying to
identify whether or not Wells iswhat was party to the initial plot.
(26:46):
And I think officially criminally,he was neither, even though he was
dead, he was neither posthumously.
Accused nor acquitted of being involved.
There wasn't enough evidenceone way or the other.
Uh, and his family is very vocal in court,just yelling at the, the judge when he
(27:08):
suggests that he may have been involved.
And so.
Yeah.
On one hand, just before the showwraps, it seems pretty conclusive
that he was not party to the crime.
He showed up to deliver apizza as part of his job.
(27:29):
And he was conned intoessentially, he was, he was
forced into wearing this bomb and.
Going on this scavenger hunt, uh, earlierthey talk about how he was involved in
the planning that seem to be negated.
However, one of the very lastthings that they talk about in this
(27:53):
series is there's a woman who isan eerie PA prostitute, who was a.
Frequent welds was afrequent client of hers.
Uh, and they became actuallylike really good friends.
Like they genuinely hung out and she wouldget groceries for his elderly parents.
(28:20):
Um, and then she became pregnantright around the time that he died
and she thinks he's the father,but he, uh, Again, what the heck's
the drug dealers name again?
I'm so terrible with this.
His name's Ken barns.
Here's how
Sonia Meza-Leon (28:38):
they sort of, I understood.
They knew each other.
Jessica, so-and-so the prostitute.
Was getting drugs from Ken Barnes.
So she would essentially come in Kenand I, if I'm not mistaken, Brian Wells
lived or hung out with Ken Barnes too.
So she would hook up with Brian Wells.
They would have sex upstairs.
(28:59):
She would take that money and godownstairs to Ken Barnes and get
drugs, and then she would do them.
Yeah.
So what I understood happenedwas that at some point, Marjorie
and maybe bill who knows.
Came over to Ken Barnes house andsaid, we need some idiot to, you know,
(29:20):
sort of be the person who's goingto go to the bank for us at the time
Jessica was there and she heard her.
It appears that Jessica May havebeen the person that suggested
Brian Wells, which he says
Brittney Sherman (29:32):
great regret
Sonia Meza-Leon (29:33):
for.
So when Brian Wells came up with, sothey essentially ordered a pizza and
they, then they took the pizza guy andkind of held them hostage and threw
a bomb on him and made him go do it.
I think they werefamiliar with each other.
Brian Wells obviously knew Ken Barnes,Ken Barnes was warned was there.
So there was some familiaritywhen you drove up with a pizza,
(29:54):
which by the way, it was likereally close to bill Rossi towels.
He had to have seen Ken Barnes.
He knew him.
Right.
So he's got to feel some comfort.
Brittney Sherman (30:03):
I mean, I think this was a, it was like a pretty small town
in, especially like this neighborhood.
It was like the type of neighborhoodwhere everyone knows each other.
So I don't think any ofthese guys were stranger.
Sonia Meza-Leon (30:13):
Yeah, exactly.
So I think when Brian walked upwith the pizza, if I, I understood
they had a slice of pizza andthen they kind of ambushed him.
But I think that they told them all along.
It wasn't real because if theywould, he would add any inclination
that that bomb was going to go off.
His, his actions wouldhave been very different,
Brittney Sherman (30:30):
I would think so, but they did see or
Sonia Meza-Leon (30:33):
drive to the police.
So if I, if I, I would never get in acar with, uh, something that, that may
or may not be a bomb and drive and godo what they said, I would try that.
Brittney Sherman (30:43):
But I think they did say that he did have a certain level of
cognitive impairment and may not have, hemay have known, but may not have wanted
to question them and may have believedthat if he just went along with their
plan, everything would have been okay.
Sonia Meza-Leon (30:57):
Yeah, no, for sure.
And I'm not sure when, I mean it,did they give him the paperwork
and say here's the scavenger huntand was the first stop the bank.
And that's what.
Oh, so maybe it was just a game all along.
It's just really strange.
Cause he's on guys.
He's on video, man.
He's like, they're looking straight inyou in camera saying, you know, guys,
guys, I think something's happening here.
(31:20):
And it's like, and then all that.
I mean, he, I really feltlike he never his face.
He never had until the very secondwhere that thing blew up, he really
had any idea it was going to blow up.
Yeah,
Brittney Sherman (31:32):
I agree.
I think he knew that.
I think towards the end, he knew thiswas a real bomb, but I don't know if
he knew that it was like imminent.
Sonia Meza-Leon (31:43):
Alrighty.
Well, Scarlett is, that was apretty short little episode.
I have a couple of shout outs I wantto do so, uh, maybe we'll keep going.
Okay.
All right.
I want to do a couple shout outs to somenew friends that I've made recently.
I want to give a shoutout to music city 9 1 1.
Brandon Hall is the host and hehas a periodic co-host as well.
(32:05):
He is a nine 11 dispatcherin Nashville, Tennessee.
And I would just love to sort oftell you guys to take a listen.
I, so he's a real nine 11 operator.
So the stories that he had,obviously perplexing and really
entertaining in my opinion.
And he's just a real nice guy.
And his voice is really, really lovely.
So highly suggest those guys givethem a shout out and we have a promo
(32:29):
for them at the end of our episode.
So you guys can take a listen,get a little familiar with them.
And then I also want to givea shout out to my group.
Katelyn Dowdy.
Now she doesn't know she's mine, but Itell her right now, um, I, she does a
YouTube series called a mortician and.
I'm not sure if I counted corpse aspart of asking mortician or it's a
(32:51):
separate sort of, you know, thinksshe does, but she's a mortician.
I think she lives in LA and she's gother own funeral home with a partner.
And, um, I find her to be really,really, really fascinating.
And I know it sounds really gruesome,but there are questions that I have a.
That stuff that I've always wanted to askand her YouTube videos are so informative
(33:15):
and she's got a huge following, but, um,I really, I really find her interesting,
like the other day I will readily admitI watched a video that she did about how
they keep your mouth shut when you're, um,you know, being prepared for reviewing.
And, um, it was, I know that'sreally gruesome and crazy,
but it was really interesting.
So I am,
Brittney Sherman (33:36):
I'm not going to tell you, you have to watch it.
I can't.
That was the proper answer.
Sonia Meza-Leon (33:40):
Yeah.
Just watch it, please watch it.
But she's really awesome.
I'm hoping Brittany, since she's in LAand we're in LA, that we could at some
point do a little interview and meet eachother because yeah, she's really cool.
And I love her observations andshe's just really informative.
So yeah, you Caitlyn Dowdy and iconiccorpse and ask mortician, check her out.
Brittney Sherman (34:03):
All right.
It's Carlitos as always.
Thanks for checking this out.
Um, I think you're going to be hearingsome more promos from us in the future.
We are really enjoying, connectingwith other independent podcasters
and supporting one another.
So if you have suggestions or areinterested in being promoted on Scarlet
(34:24):
TCP and would like to do a promo swap,we would love to hear from you, uh, hit
us up on social media, Twitter, Facebook,Instagram, and listen to us on every
platform where podcasts are available.
Sonya, anything else?
Sonia Meza-Leon (34:42):
No, this has been very enjoyable.
Hi, you guys, our audience,I have to give them credit.
They I've been hearing somewonderful things from people lately,
so we really appreciate all yoursupport, so, uh, keep killing it.
Scarlet owes.
Brittney Sherman (34:55):
All right.
Thank you.
Sonia Meza-Leon (35:07):
Hey, y'all I'm Brandon Hall.
I'm one of the hosts of music city,nine 11, a podcast about the good,
the bad, and the dark side of nine 11.
Dispatching me and my co-hostsare 9 1 1 dispatchers.
With over 60 years of experience, joinus as we play 9 1 1 calls and discuss.
Oh, did I mention thatwe get dark nine 11?
(35:30):
What's your emergency?
(36:04):
you can find us on Facebook, Twitter,and Instagram at music city nominal one.
And we're downloadable onevery podcast platform.
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