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August 30, 2024 23 mins

In this episode of the School for School Counselors Podcast, host Steph Johnson  discusses the challenges of adhering to the ASCA National Model in imperfect circumstances and introduces the SMART School Counseling Framework. This five-part framework aims to provide actionable steps for school counselors navigating the complexities of real-world school environments. 

Additionally, she introduces the free SMART School Counseling Assessment (smartschoolcounseling.com) designed to help counselors identify their next best steps for growth and development. Steph emphasizes the importance of not internalizing program shortfalls and instead endeavoring to do what's best for students within the context of the campus.

00:00 Welcome to the New and Improved Podcast

00:40 Celebrating Our Success

01:38 Introducing a New Idea

03:55 Challenges in Implementing the ASCA National Model

08:59 The Smart School Counseling Framework

18:42 The Smart School Counseling Assessment

21:17 Final Thoughts and How to Get Involved

*********************************

Mentioned in This Episode:

SMART School Counseling Assessment: smartschoolcounseling.com

School for School Counselors Mastermind

**********************************


Our goal at School for School Counselors is to help school counselors stay on fire, make huge impacts for students, and catalyze change for our roles through grassroots advocacy and collaboration. Listen to get to know more about us and our mission, feel empowered and inspired, and set yourself up for success in the wonderful world of school counseling.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there, school counselor, welcome back to the
new and improved School forSchool Counselors podcast.
I'm Steph Johnson, your host, afull-time school counselor just
like you, on a mission to makeschool counseling more
sustainable and more enjoyable,and I'm so glad that you're here
with me for this episode.

(00:20):
This is part of our Pod PartyPower pack.
Say that three times fast.
This is a special cluster ofepisodes we've put out just for
you at this time of year, tomotivate you, to inspire you and
to get you ready for the newschool year and as a way of
saying thanks.
I don't know if you know, butSchool for School Counselors

(00:43):
podcast has been doing a prettygood job.
We have over 155,000 downloadsas of the time of recording this
episode, and we've only beenaround a couple years.
For a niche podcast like ours,without you know, a huge
audience to listen to it.
That's pretty dang good, andwe've risen as high as number

(01:03):
three in the global charts inour podcast category.
So that is nothing to sniff at,and that's all thanks to you.
That's all thanks to everyonewho listens, all of our friends
and colleagues who tune in toeach episode week after week,
and so we wanted a way to saythank you and to let you know
how grateful we are for yourgracious listenership.

(01:25):
So thank you from the bottom ofmy heart.
This would not be a thingwithout you, and we sure hope
that this podcast keeps growingand keeps serving our friends
and colleagues very, very wellin the school counseling world.
So as part of the first episodeof our Power Pack, I want to
introduce you to an idea thatwe've kind of been playing
around with a little bit inSchool for School Counselors for

(01:48):
a few years.
This is something that has comeup very organically throughout
our organization because, as ineverything that we do, we never
just say, oh, we're going to dothis thing, and we just run out
and do it.
It's always from member inputand feedback and ideas, because
we don't want to create or putanything out into the world
that's not going to serve you,that's not going to be useful to

(02:10):
you, it's not going to beconscious of your time, of your
energy or of your circumstances.
And I feel like we have a lotof things out there in the
school counseling world thatkind of just sort of forget
about the circumstance piece.
Right, they just assume thatyou have autonomy in your
program, they assume you havethe right school counselor to

(02:31):
student ratios.
They assume that you have theright time available to do your
job when so many of you areworking with caseloads well
above the recommended ratio,sometimes two or three or even
four times more students than isrecommended for your role.
Or you're written into a masterschedule and you're

(02:51):
micromanaged to death all daylong, or you have all these
extra baloney responsibilitiesthat you know you probably
shouldn't be doing but you haveabsolutely no power to change.
But people like to forget aboutall that kind of stuff because
talking about those things getsmessy and messy is uncomfortable
for people, right.

(03:12):
And so we here at School forSchool Counselors my team and I
we love to dive into themessiness, we love to get into
the nitty-gritty of whatreal-world school counseling
really is, because we feel likewe can't support you or cheer
you on effectively if we don'thave the whole enchilada in mind
as we're doing that.
And so, all that to say, superexcited you're here with us, so

(03:37):
grateful for your time, and hopethat you feel confident enough
that you can recommend us toyour friends and colleagues.
You know, as I'm talking aboutrecommendations and suggestions,
not taking into account yourtime, your autonomy, your
resources, those kinds of things.
It makes me think about schoolcounseling program frameworks at

(03:58):
large.
So we know that it'srecommended for us to follow the
ASCA national model, and wewere likely all trained that way
.
It's something that we really,really want to do, but we find a
lot of roadblocks when we getstarted in our jobs, don't we?
We come in very eager, verybright-eyed, full of lots of

(04:19):
initiative and ideas, and thenwe get on a campus for a couple
weeks and we start hearingthings like no, we don't have
time for that.
No, we can't release you fromthat responsibility.
No, nobody's ever done thathere before.
No, I don't know what thatmeans.
Some of them don't even know.
Administrators don't understandthe national model.
It's not an important componentof what they're trying to build

(04:41):
on their campuses currently, orat least they don't understand
it to be right.
And so we're faced with allthese obstacles.
We're trying to implement thisnational model and at some point
, typically school counselorswalk away thinking it must be me
, it must be my shortcoming, itmust be my downfall, it must be

(05:02):
my burden to be able to meetthis ASCA national model
threshold, which, my friend, ispretty high, right.
It's pretty idealistic in itsgoals and the way that it's
structured and it needs to be.
We need to have a high level ofaspiration in our field 1,000%.
Not throwing shade at all atthe ASCA National Model.

(05:26):
But I do think where we fallshort is what do we do in the
gap?
What do we do in the meantime,from ground zero, where we're
not doing anything, we'restarting fresh in a program or
we're revamping to the holygrail of the ASCA National Model
and a fully comprehensiveschool counseling program?
What do we do in the messymiddle, right when we're not

(05:49):
quite here?
And we're not quite there?
We need some things.
We know we're not gonna get,but we don't wanna fall all the
way down to the bottom again,like how do we navigate that
area?
And nobody's really talkingabout that in our industry.
And so we decided well, we'lldo it, we'll just create a
framework.
It may be right, it may bewrong, we don't know, but we're

(06:09):
gonna create something tosupport our friends and
colleagues through that trek.
You know, it's like tellingsomebody you're standing here on
the ground, there's themountain, I want you to jump to
the top and it's just impossibleto do.
That's a long climb.
It's a hard climb and you'regoing to need support, right.

(06:29):
You're going to need the rightequipment.
You're going to need support,right, you're going to need the
right equipment.
You're going to need the rightpeople motivating you.
You're going to need the rightpeople training you for the
journey.
There are all kinds of thingsthat go on when you're trying to
reach something like that, andthis is no exception.
So I have here on my notes thatI'm just using to jog my memory
Do you ever wish you had amodel to rely on that doesn't

(06:51):
make you feel like crap aboutyour job?
Because, let's be real, a lotof times trying to reach the
ideals of the national modelleaves you feeling like you are
just terrible at your job.
You're not doing it well, youhaven't figured it out well
enough that there's somethingwrong with you, and we tend to
take it very personally, becausewe're invested in our work and

(07:15):
it just breaks our heart to seethat happening industry-wide,
and so we decided to dosomething about it.
About a month ago, we hosted afree event we do it every summer
, called Best Year Ever, and itis absolutely the highlight of
our year.
We love doing it.
We bring so many schoolcounselors together from all
over the country for four nightsfree of charge, and we hold

(07:37):
nothing back.
There's no gatekeeping involvedin this.
If somebody asks us a questionor wants a resource, we're there
for it.
We're going to provide whateverybody needs to get started
off on the right foot for theirnew school year.
And it's so fun because oftenwe have hundreds of people in a
Zoom room together and we havelearned throughout the years to
be able to manage that well.

(07:57):
It's a lot of fun.
Everybody gets a chance to asktheir questions and to be heard.
One of the things we touched onas a bonus at the end of our
Best Year Ever event this summerwas our Smart School Counseling
Assessment, and it's anassessment that we've developed
to kind of help schoolcounselors when they're in the

(08:18):
middle of that uncertainty, whenthey're trying to build
programs, when they're trying toadvocate, in order to make
inroads and really capture theiradministrator's attention and
get them to buy into theimportance of these programs.
We wanted to provide a supportin the middle so that if you're
not able to go from zero to 100,you have a plan for the middle,

(08:41):
because I think often that'swhere we get tripped up.
We feel like we know where A isand we know where Z is, but we
don't quite know what ordereverything needs to go in
between, which one's B, whichone's C?
Does this come before this orafter this?
Or what should I be focusing,or how does this all work?
So we developed not only oursmart school counseling

(09:02):
framework, but we also developedour smart school counseling
assessment, and these go hand inhand.
I would love to tell you aboutit today, just to kind of get
you in the right frame of mindfor the beginning of your school
year and so that you canutilize these tools.
The SMART School CounselingFramework is divided into five

(09:23):
pieces S-M-A-R-N-T, and I'mgoing to tell you this thread of
SMART School Counseling runsthrough everything we do in our
School.
For School Counselorsmastermind, we are instituting
some monthly challenges.
They are data-driven challenges.
They are reportable challenges,meaning you're going to be able
to take these twoadministrators and say these are

(09:44):
the awesome things, this is thestuff I've noticed.
It's going to frame you as anexpert on your campus.
So within those frameworks,we're running our SMART paradigm
.
But then within schoolcounseling at large, we're also
looking at this.
So the S in SMART stands forSTART.
Start is kind of yourpreliminary baseline,

(10:05):
information activities andknowledge base.
This is where we get started.
These are our baby steps on ourway to bigger and more exciting
things in this world of schoolcounseling and on your campus.
So coming up with somepreliminary data for your campus
, knowing kind of where youstand in the moment, building a

(10:27):
realistic vision for where youare now and where your potential
is to go.
So often, the full model ofcomprehensive school counseling
isn't available to campuses thestructure's not right, the
resources aren't right, theadministrator isn't right
sometimes, and so we have to beable to set goals that are

(10:48):
realistic.
We don't want this pie in thesky idea all the time If we know
we can't attain it and it'sgoing to make us feel bad.
We don't want to be there.
So we've got to have thatrealistic vision for our program
.
We need to identify ourknowledge gaps so that we know
about the things that we need.
Next, what are the things Ineed to know more about?
So if someone comes to me witha question and they're like I

(11:11):
don't know what to do with thiskid, next, I've tried all these
things.
What do you have in mind orwhat do you think about this or
how can I do better at that.
Instead of saying, let me getback to you on that, let me
think on that for a minute, youcan say well, I know exactly
what you can try.
Research says we should be doingthis.
This is the standard protocol.

(11:34):
This is the evidence-basedapproach to your situation.
Whatever the case may be, wewant to fill in those gaps in
your foundational knowledge sothat you can talk about these
things on the fly.
You don't have to stop andprocess, you don't have to
wonder if you sound stupid whileyou're talking about it, or you
don't have to walk away andlater think, God, I wish I would
have said that thing.
And we don't want you to bethere.

(11:56):
We want you to just to be ableto talk about it with authority.
And true, you got a lot oftraining in grad school.
You have a lot of knowledgeabout a lot of things, but being
able to talk through thosetheoretically versus talking
through them in the real worldis sometimes a little bit of a
jump, and so we like to help ourschool counselors with that and

(12:18):
really fill in that gap.
The M in our SMART SchoolCounseling Framework stands for
move.
Move is where things kind ofstart getting going.
This is where we're buildingintentional relationships on
campus.
We're starting with some basicdata collection, so we're
watching things move in realtime.
We're managing ourresponsibilities, we're figuring

(12:39):
out what's expected of us, whatare the unwritten rules that
they forgot to tell us aboutwhen we started there, or what
are some things that we're beingasked to do that may not really
be part of our roleUnderstanding the nuance of that
, why we're responsible for thatand how we can start building
relationships to get out of it.
We're talking about leadingyour campus staff to know you,

(13:01):
like you and trust you.
Those are three very importantfoundational elements and then
continuing to fill thoseknowledge gaps, moving through
that content, moving throughyour understanding, so that you
can be a great resource topeople on your campus.
All right, so we've got the S,we've got the M.
The A is for assess.

(13:23):
Assess is when we startevaluating the data that we've
collected.
We have enough information nowthat we can start to not only
form a picture of what's goingon in our program, but we can
start to tell stories throughthe data, and I'm here to tell
you that is a much moreeffective way to present your

(13:45):
information than just presenting, you know, one of the pie
graphs or bar chart or whateverit is people are doing with
their school counseling data.
That's very dry, it's notengaging, and people don't look
at that and feel compelled tosay I want to know more, unless
they're just a true data geek,right.
And so we are taking those datapoints and we're transforming

(14:07):
them into something more.
We're making it digestible forfolks, we're making it
believable and we're making itexciting for them so that they
can see the potential if you'reallowed to continue with what
you want to do potential ifyou're allowed to continue with
what you want to do.
We're also evaluating ourresources.
This is typically when we seeour school counselors start to

(14:28):
say I'm done with the teachers,pay teachers, I'm done with the
downloads.
I have the knowledge andexpertise now that I don't need
those anymore.
I don't have to use a crutch toaddress student issues.
I've got the information at thetip of my tongue, and that's a
beautiful, beautiful thing towatch happen.
I love it Evaluatingrelationships as well.

(14:51):
Are these relationships on mycampus serving me?
What do the people around meneed?
How can I be of benefit to thembut also, again, build that
know like and trust factor.
And then some self-assessment,because you are not above
reproach None of us are and weneed to be constantly assessing
ourselves, the way we're runningour programs, the way that
we're handling our personalboundaries.

(15:13):
We just need to make sure thatall that stuff is on point, and
so that is part of our assess.
Category R stands for relate.
Our assess category R standsfor relate.
Once we have all of these otherpieces in place and we feel like
they're starting to percolatepretty well, then we can start
looking at some furtherrelationships, strengthening the

(15:34):
collaboration withadministration, talking more to
stakeholders and communitymembers about how you can work
together, how you canproactively get together to
serve students and serve themwell, and to be able to continue
building those relationshipswith those co-workers so that

(15:54):
not only can you be a support tothem, but they feel comfortable
telling you about things thatthey're seeing and hearing and
that's going to help you in yourwork with serving students.
And then T thrive.
That's kind of our aspirationalsection of our framework.
This is when you really justfeel like you've got this school
counseling thing nailed down.

(16:15):
You're able to now stand up andteach others One of our big
dreams in our School for SchoolCounselors, mastermind, is to
have a cadre of trainers who areteaching our colleagues and
friends about different aspectsof school counseling.
You are probably serving as amentor to people on your campus

(16:38):
and then in our schoolcounseling community at large.
You're engaging in trueadvocacy, not this print and
pray stuff that they're showingyou on the internet, the
printing the ASCA list ofappropriate school counselor
responsibilities andinappropriate responsibilities.
I have never, ever heard andthe thousands upon thousands of

(16:58):
school counselors that I'vetalked to, even within the last
four or five years never have Iever heard of that list working.
Never have I ever heardsomebody say you know, I took
that list to my admin and theytook one look at it and said man
, I'm so glad you set mestraight.
We've been doing this all wrong.
How can we change?
I don't think I've ever heard astory of that happening.

(17:19):
As a matter of fact, I knowI've never heard of that
happening.
It's not to say again there'sanything wrong with that list,
but that is a data point fordiscussion.
That shouldn't be the be-all,end-all of the collaboration and
I think that's where a lot ofpeople stop.
So engaging in true advocacyfrom the inside out.
We teach you how to do that inour School for School Counselors

(17:39):
Mastermind, and then just somebasic mastery of your craft.
Being one of those go-to people, having the answers, knowing
your business and wanting toshare that with others in our
field, is just a tremendousprivilege as well as a
responsibility.
So we're trying to move all ofour people through this SMART

(18:01):
framework on a large scale,certainly throughout their
careers, but also on a smallerscale, throughout targeted
initiatives, and that's whatwe're doing in our School for
School Counselors Mastermind.
But as part of that, as I said,as we're looking toward these
aspirational models and thethings that we want to do in our
school counseling programs butcan't quite get to yet, we have

(18:23):
to have a way to identify thenext best step, right?
What is that one thing?
If I only have time to do onemore thing, what's it going to
be?
What areas should I be focusingon?
Where's kind of the biggestbang for my buck, so to speak?
Well, we have the answer foryou.
We have developed an assessmentcalled the Smart School

(18:45):
Counseling Assessment andthrough a series of questions,
it is going to identify for youyour biggest areas for growth.
Now I'm going to offer this witha caveat.
The caveat is this assessmentis not an assessment of your
awesomeness as a schoolcounselor.
No way, in no way is it ajudgment on you.

(19:09):
This assessment seeks toprovide some clarification on
where your program is in themoment, and that's an important
distinction Because again and Ifeel like I'm beating this horse
to death but you have toremember you're often not in
charge of all the aspects ofyour day.

(19:30):
You may not completely be incharge of your scheduling, you
may not be in charge of yourresources, you may not be in
charge of your responsibilities,what you're expected to attack
during the course of a day, andso if you're not in charge of
all those, you're doing what youcan do right.
There are very few counselorsthat sit in their offices and

(19:50):
eat bonbons all day and justwait for the kids to roll in so
they can impart their wisdom andmove on with their day.
That doesn't happen anymore.
We have to be able to look atwhat's the next best step for
our program, without taking itpersonally, without feeling like
we failed or we're fallingshort.
If you're doing the best youcan within your circumstances,

(20:13):
then you're doing it right.
This assessment is just a toolto help give you an idea for
which direction to look to next.
Simple as that.
So we wanna offer that to youin this podcast episode.
You can head over to thewebpage now and engaging.
The assessment is gonna giveyou a customized report.
At the end, it's gonna give yousome suggestions for some of

(20:34):
the categories that you want toimprove in, and it's all 100%
free of charge.
All you have to do is give usyour email address, and that's
just because we have to havesomewhere to send the report to.
The platform doesn't generateit in real time, but it has to
email it to you, and so you giveus your email address and
that's it, and then, if youdon't want to hear from us
anymore after that, you can justunsubscribe from our emails.

(20:55):
And no hard feelings there,because we know you get a
million emails a day.
All right.
So if you're interested in theassessment, you can head over to
smartschoolcounselingcom.
The assessment is going to beright there for you and you can
be off and away with all of youramazing insights and results
that you're going to gain frombeing part of the assessment.

(21:16):
But at the end of the day, hereis what I want you to take away
from this conversation.
You are probably doing enough.
It is most likely that you'redoing more than what you
probably even should with yourcircumstances.
The shortfalls of your programare not always your shortfalls
and you need to be able toseparate those out.

(21:36):
And third, you need to have agreat roadmap and framework to
get you from point A to point Z,and here at School for School
Counselors, we are almostmaniacally trying to develop
those resources for you, so thatyou not only feel equipped and
capable, but that you can trulyconceptualize that the

(21:59):
shortfalls of your program arenot your fault and that you
really do have people in yourcorner.
We want to be that for you.
If you are interested in moreof this type of support, please
know.
At any time you can go to ourwebsite,
schoolforschoolcounselorscomslash mastermind and join our
School for School CounselorsMastermind, where we have

(22:20):
conversations like this all thetime.
There are weekly support andconsultation, monthly
masterclasses, monthlychallenges that are quick,
concise and to the point, andmonthly data discussions,
meetings where you can learn howto utilize, implement or follow
up on the school counselingdata that you're collecting.

(22:40):
It's an amazing community.
We offer so much for so little,and we would love for you to
join us.
Schoolforschoolcounselorscom.
Slash mastermind.
All right, I'm gonna be backsoon with another episode in
this power pack from our podcastcelebration, so I hope you stay
tuned and keep listening, andI'll be back with some more very

(23:01):
shortly.
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