April 8, 2024 • 21 mins
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In this episode, I highlight a fascinating conversation with Elizabeth Janners, a school counselor with a super-cool blend of music and military service in her background. Listen in to hear how Elizabeth's background shapes her unique approach to mentoring the next generation, offering invaluable lessons in resilience and adaptability as she guides students through life's challenges.
Elizabeth's story is a powerful reminder of the transformative power of personal growth, and how combining various life experiences can lead to a fulfilling career that has the potential to positively impact the lives of others. Don't miss this insightful discussion that also highlights the importance of trauma-informed practices in education and how life and art can intersect to create powerful school counseling perspectives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steph Johnson (00:01):
Hello, school counselor, and welcome to the
School for School Counselorspodcast.
My oh my.
You can tell I am a little bitfroggy this week, a little bit
under the weather, but so superglad to be here with you.
I'm Steph Johnson, a full-timeschool counselor, just like you,
and I am super stoked to bebringing you this conversation
(00:24):
with a colleague of mine,Elizabeth Janners.
She is such an interestingperson.
She has such great insightsinto the work that we do each
and every day, and I cannot waitfor you to hear her thoughts
and her perspectives.
Elizabeth is a musician, she'salso a former military member,
and she loves bringing both ofthose aspects of her life into
(00:48):
her school counseling role,where she seeks to help students
determine their best outcomes,their best careers, their best
ideas for the future, as well aseducating them on the fact that
you don't have to have onecareer forever and ever.
You can change as you learn andgrow and mature, and she's all
(01:09):
about that life.
She's also about teaching herstudents that they can do hard
things.
Things that they never imagineddoing are very much within
their grasp, and she loves usinginstrumental music to inform
her approaches as a schoolcounselor.
So I can't wait for you to hearthis conversation.
It is so fascinating and anabsolute goldmine of inspiration
(01:32):
.
I started our conversation byasking Elizabeth just to tell me
a little bit about herself.
Where did she get started inthe world of work and how did
she end up as a school counselor?
Elizabeth Janners (01:45):
I think what's interesting for me,
thinking about where I am nowand going backwards, is that, at
least for school counseling, Idon't have a behavioral science
background.
So I am a musician.
I would still call myself aprofessional musician because I
still play.
I actually play in a group thatmy husband directs.
(02:12):
It's called the Night WindEnsemble here in Milwaukee and
obviously I love it.
So my bachelor's degree is influte performance from the
University of Tennessee, go Vols, and when I graduated I was
doing all kinds of auditions forsymphonies, all that kind of
stuff to try to make it as aprofessional musician.
Come to find out that's a veryhard thing to do.
(02:35):
I did not want to go for amaster's degree and practice 12
hours a day.
That was not what I wanted todo.
And so I was about to graduateand I'm like what am I going to
do with this degree?
And then I started thinkingabout the military, because I
(02:56):
grew up in Virginia Beach,Virginia, which is a very heavy
Navy town with Norfolk rightthere, and I used to play in a
community group called theTidewater Winds, which was a
group of community musicians,but a lot of them were military
as well.
And so between junior year andsenior year of college I would
(03:20):
often talk to them about themilitary music program and I was
like, "oh, that's cool.
Yeah, all right, great, notthinking that I was going to be
doing that.
So when I was graduating fromcollege I was like maybe I
should try this.
So I was in Knoxville and therewas a guy who was stationed in
(03:44):
Knoxville too as a recruiter,and so he came to the university
to do an audition and I wasaccepted, and so at that point I
was like, all right, I'm goingfor it.
And so what that meant was thatsummer I was leaving for boot
camp, signed all the papers andall that kind of stuff.
(04:05):
So I was like, all right, we'redoing this.
So that started my professionalmusic career in the Navy music
program for seven and a halfyears just playing my flute,
playing for several presidents,playing for retired admirals,
parades, that kind of stuff, andit was really great because I
(04:29):
got to play every day and itbrought me so much joy, up until
the end where it started tobecome a little bit more
difficult to be a woman in themilitary, and I had met my
husband at that time too, and Iwas like, okay, this isn't for
me husband at that time too, andI was like, okay, this isn't
for me.
Steph Johnson (04:49):
So, as Elizabeth made the decision to leave the
military and embark on a newadventure, how in the world did
she end up in the world ofschool counseling?
It's an interesting story, andone I think you're going to find
very powerful.
Elizabeth Janners (05:01):
So after I left, I did a lot of soul
searching, trying to figure outOK, what am I going to do?
It's time to grow up, what am Igoing to do for the rest of my
life?
And I kept coming back tocounseling because I loved
helping kids.
When I taught piano or flutelessons, it would often become a
(05:23):
therapy session therapy in air,quotes, right and so I enjoyed
that.
But then also, education wassuch a huge part of my life
because my mom is a retiredpsychology teacher and so we
would often talk about things ofpsychology.
I spent my whole life in a highschool, because that's where she
(05:44):
spent.
Her career was in a high school, and I was in counseling for
myself because my parents weredivorced when I was 10.
And my mom thought it wasimportant for me to go to
counseling, and so that wassomething that was a part of my
life.
Is talk therapy.
So after the Navy I was likewell, why don't I try school
(06:07):
counseling?
Let's see what this is allabout?
And around here in Milwaukee,the only school that I could get
into, fortunately without abehavioral science background,
was Marquette University.
Fortunately, I just had to takea few undergrad classes.
I had to take research methodsand statistics before I could
(06:28):
get into grad school, go to gradschool and here we are eight
years later practicingsubcomplexing.
So that is a really long answerto your question about how I
got to where I am.
But I know I'm in the rightspace because I enjoy coming to
(06:48):
work every day.
Steph Johnson (06:50):
I think Elizabeth is a great example of something
that we're all talking aboutmore and more, which is this
idea of convincing people thatthey're only gonna have one
career, that they have to choosewhen they're 17 or 18,
sometimes as early as 15 or 16,right, depending on their high
school tracks and things likethat and giving the idea that
(07:11):
this is going to be their thingforever and ever and that it's
never going to change.
I mentioned that I'm havingthese same kinds of
conversations with my highschooler at home about how the
career or the path that theychoose right now doesn't
necessarily mean it's going tobe the thing that they do
forever, and I mentioned toElizabeth I think she's a great
(07:32):
example of that in the way sheworks with her students and that
her past experiences reallyseem to be informing the way
that she works now.
Elizabeth Janners (07:42):
Yeah, for sure.
And I agree, I'm having thoseconversations too because I have
a lot of students that are likeI just want to do this and this
is what I'm great at.
I'm like, yes, absolutely youare.
But just know, things changeand that's okay and they should,
and research shows that it does.
And so to help them be able totap into several passions and
(08:06):
help them develop some of thosestrengths so that if the number
one thing they want to dodoesn't happen, we can do that.
And yeah, my military experiencedid a lot of things in that I
feel like I was able to have akind of an enhanced maturity
versus some of my othercounseling colleagues who are
(08:29):
coming right out of college andhaving gone through boot camp, I
never thought I could do and tobe able to say I did a really
hard thing.
And kids are like blown awaywhen they find out that I was in
the Navy and I have pictures inmy office and all that kind of
(08:50):
stuff, and so it's a really goodstarting point to talk about.
But I talk about thepunctuality.
Like I am never late toanything.
I am at least five minutesearly.
If you are on time, you're lateas far as I'm concerned and
like all those things discipline, attention to detail and all
(09:10):
that stuff but that's reallyresonated into school counseling
too.
I was listening to your podcastthis morning of the eight
habits and eight tips to throwthe restart for the new year and
you're talking about thecalendar and I'm like I can't
live without my calendar andmaking sure everything is there.
But I don't think I would havebeen this way had I not gone
(09:33):
through the military.
Steph Johnson (09:36):
I think that, without a doubt, elizabeth's
military experience certainlymolded and shaped her and pushed
her into being a person she maynot have been otherwise as far
as systems, organization,punctuality and, I'm sure, a
myriad of other wonderfulqualities.
I sort of talked about how myfine arts experience and my
(09:59):
background informs the way thatI work with students.
I tend to rely heavily onsomatic approaches, emotive
approaches, things like that,and I wondered if her
experiences do the same for her.
Elizabeth Janners (10:16):
The thing that comes to the front of my
mind is helping them breathe.
When we do deep breathing right, because as a instrumentalist
you have to breathe from thediaphragm and all that kind of
stuff.
And when I teach kids how to doeffective deep breathing, it's
all up here right in the chestand I'm like, no, that's
actually you know not whatyou're supposed to do and not
(10:37):
helping you in any way.
Let me teach you how to do it.
And because I was taught thatforever, being a flutist as well
, it comes second nature to me.
So I think that's probably thefirst thing that correlates, but
also maybe listening to and Iknow that's cliche to say that
of course we're good listeners,we're counselors, but when
(11:00):
you're in an ensemble, you arepart of a group, right, and
you're part of a section and youhave to blend into that section
and then you have to blend intothat ensemble, and so there's
nuances with each note that youplay.
Each note is going to have adifferent pitch tendency and to
(11:22):
be able to figure out where thatfits, not only within your
section but also within theensemble.
And I think that may translateinto counseling too, because I'm
listening for contradictions,I'm listening and looking for
non-behavioral cues.
I'm listening for all kinds ofstuff to be able to help me
(11:43):
paraphrase, summarize, reflecton what they're saying.
That's helpful too.
Steph Johnson (11:49):
Y'all.
I was so glad we went on thatcurveball conversation.
It gave me such a newperspective of school counseling
and the way others worked and Ijust loved it.
Before we started the podcastrecording, we were talking about
Elizabeth's thoughts on beingtrauma-informed, about
understanding students'backgrounds, what their true
(12:12):
realities are and how thatinforms her school counseling
practice.
I asked her to give us somemore insight into that.
Elizabeth Janners (12:21):
I think, being in Milwaukee, I am very in
tune to all the struggles thatthese kids have and not to say
that obviously every locationdoes.
But Milwaukee is heavy in thecrime and heavy in the trauma
and heavy in a lot of kidshaving incarcerated parents,
(12:41):
homelessness, that kind of stuff, and so I've become very
passionate about understandingmore of the trauma piece.
I feel like withoutunderstanding where a student is
coming from, what is going oninside their head, inside their
(13:02):
heart, what is going on at home,it is hard for us to be able to
help them be successful inschool.
And I feel like, unfortunately,school counselors don't have
enough training intrauma-informed care and so we
often then refer out totherapists and then their list
(13:23):
gets longer and then they can'tbe seen for eight months, 10
months, whatever.
So I feel like that's certainlysomething that school
counselors could use, and thentheir list gets longer and then
they can't be seen for eightmonths, 10 months, whatever.
So I feel like that's certainlysomething that school counselors
could use is just a little bitmore of trauma informed care,
because you have a student whois coming from an abusive family
(13:45):
.
They're coming into school astheir safe place, but they're
coming in on high alert anyway,because that's what their body
is doing as a defense mechanismfor what they're dealing with at
home.
They're not going to be able tofunction, they're not going to
be able to focus on math whenthey have all of this going on
at home.
So teaching some of thosecoping skills and how to manage
(14:09):
that stress and all of that issuper important, and I try to do
a lot of that, but I feel likecertainly more training in how
to help some of those kids whoneed us the most with
trauma-informed care is superimportant.
Steph Johnson (14:28):
I love the way Elizabeth thinks about this.
You know we often think we'retrauma-informed just because we
hear about a lot of trauma andwe're able to have conversations
around it, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean that we know
about best practices or that weunderstand how to lead our
campuses toward atrauma-informed perspective.
(14:49):
It's a whole differentenchilada y'all, and so I'm so
glad that Elizabeth is bringingthis to the forefront of the
conversation.
Sounds like that's a concern inher neck of the woods.
It certainly is in mine as well, and we can't tell families
just to hit the pause button ontheir issues and wait for
someone to come to the rescue.
Elizabeth Janners (15:11):
No, it doesn't work.
And then you feel guilty, youfeel like it's your
responsibility then to becometheir interim therapist, and
then that's not appropriate foryou, that's not fair for you,
you don't have that kind oftraining.
So yeah, that's a double-edgedsword there, for sure.
Steph Johnson (15:28):
As we neared the end of our conversation, I asked
Elizabeth what does shestrongly believe about school
counseling?
What is she super invested in?
What does she really care aboutwhen it comes to her work?
Elizabeth Janners (15:53):
just coming in every day and hoping that I
will have talked to one kiddowho I said something to them
that had a light bulb go off intheir head.
I spent the first part of myschool counseling career in the
K-8 schools and I was the onlycounselor in both of those
places, and that was obviouslyvery difficult to be the only
counselor because you're notable to, and that was obviously
very difficult to be the onlycounselor because you're not
(16:14):
able to do anything really thatyou want to do.
So when I got here to highschool I found that I really
love talking about after highschool.
I really like the college piece, the scholarships, all of that
stuff, and I talk a lot about,obviously, with my seniors what
(16:38):
are you going to do afterwards?
Okay, what are you going to doafter that?
Just helping them figure outwhat do you want your life to
look like after high school.
And they are shocked sometimesto find out that they didn't
really quite think about thisuntil now.
And so what drives me is hopingthat I will have reached
(17:01):
someone, either through sometrauma, informed discussions, to
be able to help them with onecoping skill, one technique, to
use one thing to help them afterthey leave this building, and
then what does the rest of theirlife look like?
Steph Johnson (17:21):
Don't you just love the way Elizabeth sees
things?
Just reaching out, making thatimpact, no matter how granular
it feels in the moment, nomatter how small and
insignificant these isolatedthings may feel, we know we're
guiding them toward theirpurpose, toward their best
directions or their passions intheir futures.
(17:44):
I think that's pretty cool.
I asked Elizabeth if she hadany last thoughts or last words
for folks that may be in similarsituations, who are looking to
make the transition to schoolcounseling or feeling like gosh
man.
I haven't worked in schools 10or 15 years, like some of these
other people.
I don't know if I can make itas a school counselor or whether
(18:07):
I can hold my own.
Elizabeth Janners (18:09):
I do, and I will say too, after I graduated
with my master's, it took me along time to get a job, and I
think that maybe just where Ilive, or maybe because I was
only able to look in like a 45minute radius because of my
family.
But oftentimes you're going forone position in one school and
(18:35):
then there are hundreds ofapplicants.
I would like to think that myunique background did put me
ahead of some applicants, but atthe end of the day it all comes
down to how you interview, howyou sell yourself, what your
resume looks like.
If this is really what you wantto do, if it's meant to be, it
(18:58):
will be, and it took me fouryears.
I didn't think it was going totake that long, but it did.
But I'm so grateful to have hadyour, the Get the Job podcast,
the course, all of that, allthose materials, because it
really changed everything that Iwas doing.
I felt like I performed betterand had more quality materials
(19:21):
after that.
Steph Johnson (19:22):
Sometimes it's about combining the dynamite
that you already possess, takingit, putting it in a little bit
different package and kaboom,all of a sudden it explodes and
brings out the best in everybodyaround you, and it sounds like
that's exactly what Elizabethhas been able to harness.
Hey, I hope you found this asinspirational and motivational
(19:46):
as I did.
I love talking to my schoolcounselor colleagues, hearing
their insights, hearing theirperspectives on our work.
I find it really re-energizesme and gets me excited for the
week ahead.
So I hope it's done the samefor you.
Elizabeth is a doll.
I'm so glad that she gave methe opportunity to speak with
her and I'm so excited to hearwhat the future has in store for
(20:10):
her.
Hey, if you enjoyed this episode, if it lit you up and got you
fired up for your work again,could you do me a solid Go to
your podcast player of choiceand either leave us a star
review or leave us a writtenreview about how the podcast has
influenced or informed yourwork?
It would mean the world to usand it will also help other
(20:31):
school counselors discover thelevel of motivation and insight
and influence that we strive tobring to each and every episode
of the School for SchoolCounselors podcast.
We would appreciate you so much.
All right, I'll be back soonwith another episode of the
School for School Counselorspodcast, hopefully a little less
(20:52):
froggy and a little easier tounderstand next time.
But in the meantime, I hope youhave the best week.
Take care.
Hello, school counselor, and welcome to the
School for School Counselorspodcast.
My oh my.
You can tell I am a little bitfroggy this week, a little bit
under the weather, but so superglad to be here with you.
I'm Steph Johnson, a full-timeschool counselor, just like you,
and I am super stoked to bebringing you this conversation
(00:24):
with a colleague of mine,Elizabeth Janners.
She is such an interestingperson.
She has such great insightsinto the work that we do each
and every day, and I cannot waitfor you to hear her thoughts
and her perspectives.
Elizabeth is a musician, she'salso a former military member,
and she loves bringing both ofthose aspects of her life into
(00:48):
her school counseling role,where she seeks to help students
determine their best outcomes,their best careers, their best
ideas for the future, as well aseducating them on the fact that
you don't have to have onecareer forever and ever.
You can change as you learn andgrow and mature, and she's all
(01:09):
about that life.
She's also about teaching herstudents that they can do hard
things.
Things that they never imagineddoing are very much within
their grasp, and she loves usinginstrumental music to inform
her approaches as a schoolcounselor.
So I can't wait for you to hearthis conversation.
It is so fascinating and anabsolute goldmine of inspiration
(01:32):
.
I started our conversation byasking Elizabeth just to tell me
a little bit about herself.
Where did she get started inthe world of work and how did
she end up as a school counselor?
Elizabeth Janners (01:45):
I think what's interesting for me,
thinking about where I am nowand going backwards, is that, at
least for school counseling, Idon't have a behavioral science
background.
So I am a musician.
I would still call myself aprofessional musician because I
still play.
I actually play in a group thatmy husband directs.
(02:12):
It's called the Night WindEnsemble here in Milwaukee and
obviously I love it.
So my bachelor's degree is influte performance from the
University of Tennessee, go Vols, and when I graduated I was
doing all kinds of auditions forsymphonies, all that kind of
stuff to try to make it as aprofessional musician.
Come to find out that's a veryhard thing to do.
(02:35):
I did not want to go for amaster's degree and practice 12
hours a day.
That was not what I wanted todo.
And so I was about to graduateand I'm like what am I going to
do with this degree?
And then I started thinkingabout the military, because I
(02:56):
grew up in Virginia Beach,Virginia, which is a very heavy
Navy town with Norfolk rightthere, and I used to play in a
community group called theTidewater Winds, which was a
group of community musicians,but a lot of them were military
as well.
And so between junior year andsenior year of college I would
(03:20):
often talk to them about themilitary music program and I was
like, "oh, that's cool.
Yeah, all right, great, notthinking that I was going to be
doing that.
So when I was graduating fromcollege I was like maybe I
should try this.
So I was in Knoxville and therewas a guy who was stationed in
(03:44):
Knoxville too as a recruiter,and so he came to the university
to do an audition and I wasaccepted, and so at that point I
was like, all right, I'm goingfor it.
And so what that meant was thatsummer I was leaving for boot
camp, signed all the papers andall that kind of stuff.
(04:05):
So I was like, all right, we'redoing this.
So that started my professionalmusic career in the Navy music
program for seven and a halfyears just playing my flute,
playing for several presidents,playing for retired admirals,
parades, that kind of stuff, andit was really great because I
(04:29):
got to play every day and itbrought me so much joy, up until
the end where it started tobecome a little bit more
difficult to be a woman in themilitary, and I had met my
husband at that time too, and Iwas like, okay, this isn't for
me husband at that time too, andI was like, okay, this isn't
for me.
Steph Johnson (04:49):
So, as Elizabeth made the decision to leave the
military and embark on a newadventure, how in the world did
she end up in the world ofschool counseling?
It's an interesting story, andone I think you're going to find
very powerful.
Elizabeth Janners (05:01):
So after I left, I did a lot of soul
searching, trying to figure outOK, what am I going to do?
It's time to grow up, what am Igoing to do for the rest of my
life?
And I kept coming back tocounseling because I loved
helping kids.
When I taught piano or flutelessons, it would often become a
(05:23):
therapy session therapy in air,quotes, right and so I enjoyed
that.
But then also, education wassuch a huge part of my life
because my mom is a retiredpsychology teacher and so we
would often talk about things ofpsychology.
I spent my whole life in a highschool, because that's where she
(05:44):
spent.
Her career was in a high school, and I was in counseling for
myself because my parents weredivorced when I was 10.
And my mom thought it wasimportant for me to go to
counseling, and so that wassomething that was a part of my
life.
Is talk therapy.
So after the Navy I was likewell, why don't I try school
(06:07):
counseling?
Let's see what this is allabout?
And around here in Milwaukee,the only school that I could get
into, fortunately without abehavioral science background,
was Marquette University.
Fortunately, I just had to takea few undergrad classes.
I had to take research methodsand statistics before I could
(06:28):
get into grad school, go to gradschool and here we are eight
years later practicingsubcomplexing.
So that is a really long answerto your question about how I
got to where I am.
But I know I'm in the rightspace because I enjoy coming to
(06:48):
work every day.
Steph Johnson (06:50):
I think Elizabeth is a great example of something
that we're all talking aboutmore and more, which is this
idea of convincing people thatthey're only gonna have one
career, that they have to choosewhen they're 17 or 18,
sometimes as early as 15 or 16,right, depending on their high
school tracks and things likethat and giving the idea that
(07:11):
this is going to be their thingforever and ever and that it's
never going to change.
I mentioned that I'm havingthese same kinds of
conversations with my highschooler at home about how the
career or the path that theychoose right now doesn't
necessarily mean it's going tobe the thing that they do
forever, and I mentioned toElizabeth I think she's a great
(07:32):
example of that in the way sheworks with her students and that
her past experiences reallyseem to be informing the way
that she works now.
Elizabeth Janners (07:42):
Yeah, for sure.
And I agree, I'm having thoseconversations too because I have
a lot of students that are likeI just want to do this and this
is what I'm great at.
I'm like, yes, absolutely youare.
But just know, things changeand that's okay and they should,
and research shows that it does.
And so to help them be able totap into several passions and
(08:06):
help them develop some of thosestrengths so that if the number
one thing they want to dodoesn't happen, we can do that.
And yeah, my military experiencedid a lot of things in that I
feel like I was able to have akind of an enhanced maturity
versus some of my othercounseling colleagues who are
(08:29):
coming right out of college andhaving gone through boot camp, I
never thought I could do and tobe able to say I did a really
hard thing.
And kids are like blown awaywhen they find out that I was in
the Navy and I have pictures inmy office and all that kind of
(08:50):
stuff, and so it's a really goodstarting point to talk about.
But I talk about thepunctuality.
Like I am never late toanything.
I am at least five minutesearly.
If you are on time, you're lateas far as I'm concerned and
like all those things discipline, attention to detail and all
(09:10):
that stuff but that's reallyresonated into school counseling
too.
I was listening to your podcastthis morning of the eight
habits and eight tips to throwthe restart for the new year and
you're talking about thecalendar and I'm like I can't
live without my calendar andmaking sure everything is there.
But I don't think I would havebeen this way had I not gone
(09:33):
through the military.
Steph Johnson (09:36):
I think that, without a doubt, elizabeth's
military experience certainlymolded and shaped her and pushed
her into being a person she maynot have been otherwise as far
as systems, organization,punctuality and, I'm sure, a
myriad of other wonderfulqualities.
I sort of talked about how myfine arts experience and my
(09:59):
background informs the way thatI work with students.
I tend to rely heavily onsomatic approaches, emotive
approaches, things like that,and I wondered if her
experiences do the same for her.
Elizabeth Janners (10:16):
The thing that comes to the front of my
mind is helping them breathe.
When we do deep breathing right, because as a instrumentalist
you have to breathe from thediaphragm and all that kind of
stuff.
And when I teach kids how to doeffective deep breathing, it's
all up here right in the chestand I'm like, no, that's
actually you know not whatyou're supposed to do and not
(10:37):
helping you in any way.
Let me teach you how to do it.
And because I was taught thatforever, being a flutist as well
, it comes second nature to me.
So I think that's probably thefirst thing that correlates, but
also maybe listening to and Iknow that's cliche to say that
of course we're good listeners,we're counselors, but when
(11:00):
you're in an ensemble, you arepart of a group, right, and
you're part of a section and youhave to blend into that section
and then you have to blend intothat ensemble, and so there's
nuances with each note that youplay.
Each note is going to have adifferent pitch tendency and to
(11:22):
be able to figure out where thatfits, not only within your
section but also within theensemble.
And I think that may translateinto counseling too, because I'm
listening for contradictions,I'm listening and looking for
non-behavioral cues.
I'm listening for all kinds ofstuff to be able to help me
(11:43):
paraphrase, summarize, reflecton what they're saying.
That's helpful too.
Steph Johnson (11:49):
Y'all.
I was so glad we went on thatcurveball conversation.
It gave me such a newperspective of school counseling
and the way others worked and Ijust loved it.
Before we started the podcastrecording, we were talking about
Elizabeth's thoughts on beingtrauma-informed, about
understanding students'backgrounds, what their true
(12:12):
realities are and how thatinforms her school counseling
practice.
I asked her to give us somemore insight into that.
Elizabeth Janners (12:21):
I think, being in Milwaukee, I am very in
tune to all the struggles thatthese kids have and not to say
that obviously every locationdoes.
But Milwaukee is heavy in thecrime and heavy in the trauma
and heavy in a lot of kidshaving incarcerated parents,
(12:41):
homelessness, that kind of stuff, and so I've become very
passionate about understandingmore of the trauma piece.
I feel like withoutunderstanding where a student is
coming from, what is going oninside their head, inside their
(13:02):
heart, what is going on at home,it is hard for us to be able to
help them be successful inschool.
And I feel like, unfortunately,school counselors don't have
enough training intrauma-informed care and so we
often then refer out totherapists and then their list
(13:23):
gets longer and then they can'tbe seen for eight months, 10
months, whatever.
So I feel like that's certainlysomething that school
counselors could use, and thentheir list gets longer and then
they can't be seen for eightmonths, 10 months, whatever.
So I feel like that's certainlysomething that school counselors
could use is just a little bitmore of trauma informed care,
because you have a student whois coming from an abusive family
(13:45):
.
They're coming into school astheir safe place, but they're
coming in on high alert anyway,because that's what their body
is doing as a defense mechanismfor what they're dealing with at
home.
They're not going to be able tofunction, they're not going to
be able to focus on math whenthey have all of this going on
at home.
So teaching some of thosecoping skills and how to manage
(14:09):
that stress and all of that issuper important, and I try to do
a lot of that, but I feel likecertainly more training in how
to help some of those kids whoneed us the most with
trauma-informed care is superimportant.
Steph Johnson (14:28):
I love the way Elizabeth thinks about this.
You know we often think we'retrauma-informed just because we
hear about a lot of trauma andwe're able to have conversations
around it, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean that we know
about best practices or that weunderstand how to lead our
campuses toward atrauma-informed perspective.
(14:49):
It's a whole differentenchilada y'all, and so I'm so
glad that Elizabeth is bringingthis to the forefront of the
conversation.
Sounds like that's a concern inher neck of the woods.
It certainly is in mine as well, and we can't tell families
just to hit the pause button ontheir issues and wait for
someone to come to the rescue.
Elizabeth Janners (15:11):
No, it doesn't work.
And then you feel guilty, youfeel like it's your
responsibility then to becometheir interim therapist, and
then that's not appropriate foryou, that's not fair for you,
you don't have that kind oftraining.
So yeah, that's a double-edgedsword there, for sure.
Steph Johnson (15:28):
As we neared the end of our conversation, I asked
Elizabeth what does shestrongly believe about school
counseling?
What is she super invested in?
What does she really care aboutwhen it comes to her work?
Elizabeth Janners (15:53):
just coming in every day and hoping that I
will have talked to one kiddowho I said something to them
that had a light bulb go off intheir head.
I spent the first part of myschool counseling career in the
K-8 schools and I was the onlycounselor in both of those
places, and that was obviouslyvery difficult to be the only
counselor because you're notable to, and that was obviously
very difficult to be the onlycounselor because you're not
(16:14):
able to do anything really thatyou want to do.
So when I got here to highschool I found that I really
love talking about after highschool.
I really like the college piece, the scholarships, all of that
stuff, and I talk a lot about,obviously, with my seniors what
(16:38):
are you going to do afterwards?
Okay, what are you going to doafter that?
Just helping them figure outwhat do you want your life to
look like after high school.
And they are shocked sometimesto find out that they didn't
really quite think about thisuntil now.
And so what drives me is hopingthat I will have reached
(17:01):
someone, either through sometrauma, informed discussions, to
be able to help them with onecoping skill, one technique, to
use one thing to help them afterthey leave this building, and
then what does the rest of theirlife look like?
Steph Johnson (17:21):
Don't you just love the way Elizabeth sees
things?
Just reaching out, making thatimpact, no matter how granular
it feels in the moment, nomatter how small and
insignificant these isolatedthings may feel, we know we're
guiding them toward theirpurpose, toward their best
directions or their passions intheir futures.
(17:44):
I think that's pretty cool.
I asked Elizabeth if she hadany last thoughts or last words
for folks that may be in similarsituations, who are looking to
make the transition to schoolcounseling or feeling like gosh
man.
I haven't worked in schools 10or 15 years, like some of these
other people.
I don't know if I can make itas a school counselor or whether
(18:07):
I can hold my own.
Elizabeth Janners (18:09):
I do, and I will say too, after I graduated
with my master's, it took me along time to get a job, and I
think that maybe just where Ilive, or maybe because I was
only able to look in like a 45minute radius because of my
family.
But oftentimes you're going forone position in one school and
(18:35):
then there are hundreds ofapplicants.
I would like to think that myunique background did put me
ahead of some applicants, but atthe end of the day it all comes
down to how you interview, howyou sell yourself, what your
resume looks like.
If this is really what you wantto do, if it's meant to be, it
(18:58):
will be, and it took me fouryears.
I didn't think it was going totake that long, but it did.
But I'm so grateful to have hadyour, the Get the Job podcast,
the course, all of that, allthose materials, because it
really changed everything that Iwas doing.
I felt like I performed betterand had more quality materials
(19:21):
after that.
Steph Johnson (19:22):
Sometimes it's about combining the dynamite
that you already possess, takingit, putting it in a little bit
different package and kaboom,all of a sudden it explodes and
brings out the best in everybodyaround you, and it sounds like
that's exactly what Elizabethhas been able to harness.
Hey, I hope you found this asinspirational and motivational
(19:46):
as I did.
I love talking to my schoolcounselor colleagues, hearing
their insights, hearing theirperspectives on our work.
I find it really re-energizesme and gets me excited for the
week ahead.
So I hope it's done the samefor you.
Elizabeth is a doll.
I'm so glad that she gave methe opportunity to speak with
her and I'm so excited to hearwhat the future has in store for
(20:10):
her.
Hey, if you enjoyed this episode, if it lit you up and got you
fired up for your work again,could you do me a solid Go to
your podcast player of choiceand either leave us a star
review or leave us a writtenreview about how the podcast has
influenced or informed yourwork?
It would mean the world to usand it will also help other
(20:31):
school counselors discover thelevel of motivation and insight
and influence that we strive tobring to each and every episode
of the School for SchoolCounselors podcast.
We would appreciate you so much.
All right, I'll be back soonwith another episode of the
School for School Counselorspodcast, hopefully a little less
(20:52):
froggy and a little easier tounderstand next time.
But in the meantime, I hope youhave the best week.
Take care.
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