February 12, 2024 • 13 mins
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Ever found yourself in the middle of behavioral chaos, wondering where it all went wrong? In this episode, we create a "cheat sheet" for initial behavior intervention with strategies to support students without pulling them away from the classroom prematurely.
Mentioned in this episode:
ChildMind Institute's Hierarchy of Behavioral Techniques
**********************************
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steph Johnson (00:00):
Hey there, school counselor, do you ever feel
like behavior issues on yourcampus are just throwing you for
a loop?
There are things happening butyou're not really sure how to
address them, how you canintervene, or you feel like
counseling just isn't gettingthe job done.
That's a terrible thing to sayon a school counseling podcast,
(00:24):
but I'm here to tell you.
I think sometimes there aresome pieces that we miss in this
big puzzle, and so in thisepisode of the podcast, we're
gonna walk through some of thosemissing elements.
They're things you already knowabout but so often overlook,
and I think they will help younot only feel more in control of
your work, but they're alsogoing to help your students feel
(00:46):
more successful, more confidentand more able to regulate
themselves.
Hey, I'm so glad you've joinedme this week and I will make a
little confession.
This may be a quick podcastepisode.
I'm recording it on the fly.
At the last minute.
We had a lovely snow day here inTexas, which doesn't happen
(01:07):
often, so I took full advantageand had a little bit of extra
free time this weekend, added tothe big Super Bowl.
I just watched the Super Bowlhalftime show it reminded me
that I'm getting older and thensat down to record this podcast
episode for you and, as I said,this information is likely
(01:29):
things you already know, butperhaps, if forgotten, perhaps
they slip your mind in the heatof the moment, or perhaps you
just need a little bit differentframework to look at when we're
dealing with behavior concernsin the classroom.
I had the pleasure of attendingone of my state school
counseling conferences this pastweek.
(01:51):
It was a wonderful way to kickoff National School Counseling
Week and one of the keynotespeakers was Johnny Quinn.
Johnny Quinn was the bobsledderthat got logged in his bathroom
at one set of the Olympic GamesI can't remember which one, but
and all around amazing athlete,was an Olympian, had a little
(02:12):
bit of a football career goingall kinds of things, and one of
the things that he said justbeen passing really stuck with
me.
He was talking about footballplayers and how much money they
make, which is appropriate asI'm recording on Super Bowl
Sunday, and he said the funnything is these guys are paid
these exorbitant amounts ofmoney to play this game and
(02:36):
really, nine times out of 10,they're running plays that we
all learned in the eighth grade.
The only difference is theyknow how to do them really
really well and reallyconsistently, and that stuck
with me.
It made me think about you andall of the things that we
approach in our day, all thethings we have to tackle and how
(02:58):
having those fundamentals down,not having to reinvent the
wheel every time a concern comesup, is really gonna be helpful
in our work.
Now, if they would only pay usa million dollars to do it right
, wouldn't that be?
That would be incredible,anyway, so when we have
situations with students pop upon campus, when folks start
(03:21):
looking to us for support, Ithink there are some
fundamentals that we can suggestbefore anything starts heading
up to tier two and tier threeinterventions.
Sometimes we forget thosebasics and often those need to
happen in the classrooms, whichmeans we have to be good mentors
for our teachers, we have to begreat advisors and we have to
(03:44):
learn how to give feedbackdelicately but directly, and
that's an art, for sure.
But let me just walk youthrough some of the things I
think we often miss becausewe're so ready to jump in to
help, to try to fix things, eventhough we know that's not our
role.
If you've been listening to thepodcast, you know I'm a helper,
(04:06):
I'm not a fixer, but we areprimed and ready to jump in.
We wanna make a difference andso we often neglect these
fundamentals that could perhapsbe making everyone's jobs a
little bit easier.
So I think, first we need to belooking at routines on campus
and we need to be looking atroutines in the classrooms.
(04:28):
Are students being givenwarnings of time left to
transition?
Are they being warned when theyonly have 10 minutes left for
an assignment, five minutes leftuntil it's time to go, whatever
it is?
Some kiddos really need thosereminders of time left for tasks
(04:49):
.
It helps them feel in control,it helps them feel like they
know what's coming up next andit helps them manage their time.
Positive behavior expectationsin the classrooms that are
specific None of these.
I will be a good classmate.
I will show respect, I willshow responsibility.
(05:10):
Those are great, but they'renot specific.
What are these specificpositive behavior elements at
play in each of the classroomsthat they visit each day?
Are teachers in those classesplanning ahead?
Are they prepared for theirwork?
Is there a lot of downtime asthey maneuver technology, as
(05:33):
they find the things, as theyhand out papers, or is
everything prepped, streamlinedand ready to go?
More downtime provides moreopportunity for misbehavior
right.
Are students being provided withtwo option choices?
So often we want to saysomething like I need you to get
(05:53):
to work on this, or it's timeto get busy, when what we really
need to be doing is giving twooption choices, or when then and
those are not just forelementary-aged students Schools
can work well into middleschool and high school for
students and again, I know thatyou know these things, but it
(06:15):
just bears repeating becausethese are things we often forget
.
Do we have good routines inplace?
Are we giving transitionwarnings?
Do we have positive andspecific behavior expectations
at play?
Have the teachers planned aheadand prepared Not only their
lessons and materials, but havethey planned ahead for behavior
(06:36):
interventions?
Are we giving options whenpossible?
These are all importantelements to put into play when
we're struggling with behaviorin the classroom Then.
Are we positively attending tostudents?
Are we talking through copingskills with them?
Are we focusing on thebehaviors we want rather than
(06:59):
the behaviors we don't want?
I see this a lot in schoolswhere we have teachers that sort
of get stuck on the misbehaviorerrors and those are the only
things they can see.
It's like their radar isconstantly scanning for when is
this going to go wrong?
I'm waiting.
When's the other shoe going todrop, when really we ought to be
(07:20):
scanning for the opportunitiesto positively recognize students
.
Sometimes that goes a long wayand we know it takes many
positives to erase one negativecomment.
So if students are gettingnegatives throughout most of
their day, they're going to comeaway beaten down.
They're going to come awayfeeling why even try, nobody
(07:40):
likes me, it doesn't even matteranyway.
So these are some things thatyou can watch for.
You can help model inclassrooms to really get
teachers on board with beingproactive in classroom behavior
concerns.
Another thing that can reallyhelp us go far in this behavior
(08:02):
game is making sure that theinstructions given are clear and
straightforward.
Teachers need to giveinstructions that are very clear
.
Get your worksheet fromyesterday out of your blue
folder and in that directive.
It is straightforward, it isclear and it is also a one-step
(08:24):
direction.
How many times have you walkedin your classrooms and heard
teachers give these long stringsof expectations where you feel
like you have no idea what to doby the time they get finished?
I often hear this even as youngas kindergarten, hearing
teachers say okay, when we getto the classroom you're going to
(08:46):
go in, you're going to put yourlunchbox away, put on your
jacket, put your snack on yourdesk and then line up for recess
.
Holy smokes, y'all.
That's a lot to remember andthat doesn't only affect
five-year-olds, that affectseveryone.
We need to make sure that ourdirections are one at a time,
let's leave no room for question, let's make sure everybody is
(09:10):
on the same page and, if at allpossible, we need to really
encourage our folks to avoidagain those negative comments
throughout the day.
No, don't stop instead ofproviding a positive feedback.
Thanks for sitting in yourchair.
Now turn around and face thefront of the classroom.
(09:32):
Different approach, and again,these are things that you
already know.
I'm not trying to blow yourminds here, but I do want to
remind you of the fundamentals.
So often we are called to gointo classrooms to really help
and identify what's going on.
If someone's asked you to go into do, you know, a behavior
(09:53):
evaluation or a behavioralobservation.
Personally, these are thethings I'm looking for.
First, are there routines?
Are there transition warnings?
Is everything planned ahead?
Are choices offered?
Are positive coping skillsmodeled and talked about?
Are they talked about when thestudent is not escalated?
(10:15):
That's an important piece ofthat puzzle.
Is the teacher or theprofessional in the room
focusing on the behavior theywant to see, with clear and
straightforward instructionsthat are given one at a time?
Other things that may help,things like visual schedules,
(10:37):
itineraries for the classroomfor your older students, so that
everyone knows what's coming upnext.
Everyone understands theexpectation and how class is
going to proceed that day.
That sense of safety can beprofound for so many of our
students and it only takes a fewminutes to have that up.
So super, super important.
(10:58):
And then, once we have all ofthose things down, once we have
things humming along smoothly,things are rolling pretty well
and we're still not seeing theresults from the student's side
of things that we want to see.
That's when we can startlooking toward some more
intensive behavioralinterventions.
Maybe things like rewardsystems, behavior plans,
(11:23):
consequences for misbehavior.
All of those things can comelater, but at the beginning we
need to be sure that we have thefundamentals in place, and this
is everywhere.
This is in English and math andworld history and athletics and
music, anywhere they go.
We need to make sure thesecomponents are in place.
(11:46):
All right, I hope that washelpful to you.
I'm going to link to somethingcalled the Behavior Hierarchy
from the Child Mind Institute.
If you are familiar with theirwork, I loosely adapted this
podcast episode based on that,but I do want to make sure I'm
giving them credit for theirwork so you can find that link
(12:06):
in the show notes if you'reinterested in following up.
And in the meantime I justencourage you not to go jumping
into battle instantaneously.
Give your teachers time andlatitude to jump in.
That's not to say you can'tprovide counseling in tandem
with these things, but it'sextremely difficult to implement
(12:27):
things in the counseling roomand have them generalize to the
rest of the school campus if wedon't have all of the rest of
our folks on board.
So hopefully that gave you somefood for thought as you walk
through your week this week.
Hope it gave you some things tochew on, perhaps some things to
list out.
Make yourself a little cheatsheet of all the steps that you
(12:48):
might start with before youstart getting serious with more
intensive interventions.
We want to make this leastrestrictive for all students.
We don't want to be pullingthem for counseling if they
don't need it.
If we can provide thesesupports in the classrooms
instead.
That is definitely the best wayto go.
Alright, I'll be back soon withanother episode of the School
(13:10):
for School Counselors podcast.
In the meantime, I hope youhave the best week.
Y'all take care.
Hey there, school counselor, do you ever feel
like behavior issues on yourcampus are just throwing you for
a loop?
There are things happening butyou're not really sure how to
address them, how you canintervene, or you feel like
counseling just isn't gettingthe job done.
That's a terrible thing to sayon a school counseling podcast,
(00:24):
but I'm here to tell you.
I think sometimes there aresome pieces that we miss in this
big puzzle, and so in thisepisode of the podcast, we're
gonna walk through some of thosemissing elements.
They're things you already knowabout but so often overlook,
and I think they will help younot only feel more in control of
your work, but they're alsogoing to help your students feel
(00:46):
more successful, more confidentand more able to regulate
themselves.
Hey, I'm so glad you've joinedme this week and I will make a
little confession.
This may be a quick podcastepisode.
I'm recording it on the fly.
At the last minute.
We had a lovely snow day here inTexas, which doesn't happen
(01:07):
often, so I took full advantageand had a little bit of extra
free time this weekend, added tothe big Super Bowl.
I just watched the Super Bowlhalftime show it reminded me
that I'm getting older and thensat down to record this podcast
episode for you and, as I said,this information is likely
(01:29):
things you already know, butperhaps, if forgotten, perhaps
they slip your mind in the heatof the moment, or perhaps you
just need a little bit differentframework to look at when we're
dealing with behavior concernsin the classroom.
I had the pleasure of attendingone of my state school
counseling conferences this pastweek.
(01:51):
It was a wonderful way to kickoff National School Counseling
Week and one of the keynotespeakers was Johnny Quinn.
Johnny Quinn was the bobsledderthat got logged in his bathroom
at one set of the Olympic GamesI can't remember which one, but
and all around amazing athlete,was an Olympian, had a little
(02:12):
bit of a football career goingall kinds of things, and one of
the things that he said justbeen passing really stuck with
me.
He was talking about footballplayers and how much money they
make, which is appropriate asI'm recording on Super Bowl
Sunday, and he said the funnything is these guys are paid
these exorbitant amounts ofmoney to play this game and
(02:36):
really, nine times out of 10,they're running plays that we
all learned in the eighth grade.
The only difference is theyknow how to do them really
really well and reallyconsistently, and that stuck
with me.
It made me think about you andall of the things that we
approach in our day, all thethings we have to tackle and how
(02:58):
having those fundamentals down,not having to reinvent the
wheel every time a concern comesup, is really gonna be helpful
in our work.
Now, if they would only pay usa million dollars to do it right
, wouldn't that be?
That would be incredible,anyway, so when we have
situations with students pop upon campus, when folks start
(03:21):
looking to us for support, Ithink there are some
fundamentals that we can suggestbefore anything starts heading
up to tier two and tier threeinterventions.
Sometimes we forget thosebasics and often those need to
happen in the classrooms, whichmeans we have to be good mentors
for our teachers, we have to begreat advisors and we have to
(03:44):
learn how to give feedbackdelicately but directly, and
that's an art, for sure.
But let me just walk youthrough some of the things I
think we often miss becausewe're so ready to jump in to
help, to try to fix things, eventhough we know that's not our
role.
If you've been listening to thepodcast, you know I'm a helper,
(04:06):
I'm not a fixer, but we areprimed and ready to jump in.
We wanna make a difference andso we often neglect these
fundamentals that could perhapsbe making everyone's jobs a
little bit easier.
So I think, first we need to belooking at routines on campus
and we need to be looking atroutines in the classrooms.
(04:28):
Are students being givenwarnings of time left to
transition?
Are they being warned when theyonly have 10 minutes left for
an assignment, five minutes leftuntil it's time to go, whatever
it is?
Some kiddos really need thosereminders of time left for tasks
(04:49):
.
It helps them feel in control,it helps them feel like they
know what's coming up next andit helps them manage their time.
Positive behavior expectationsin the classrooms that are
specific None of these.
I will be a good classmate.
I will show respect, I willshow responsibility.
(05:10):
Those are great, but they'renot specific.
What are these specificpositive behavior elements at
play in each of the classroomsthat they visit each day?
Are teachers in those classesplanning ahead?
Are they prepared for theirwork?
Is there a lot of downtime asthey maneuver technology, as
(05:33):
they find the things, as theyhand out papers, or is
everything prepped, streamlinedand ready to go?
More downtime provides moreopportunity for misbehavior
right.
Are students being provided withtwo option choices?
So often we want to saysomething like I need you to get
(05:53):
to work on this, or it's timeto get busy, when what we really
need to be doing is giving twooption choices, or when then and
those are not just forelementary-aged students Schools
can work well into middleschool and high school for
students and again, I know thatyou know these things, but it
(06:15):
just bears repeating becausethese are things we often forget
.
Do we have good routines inplace?
Are we giving transitionwarnings?
Do we have positive andspecific behavior expectations
at play?
Have the teachers planned aheadand prepared Not only their
lessons and materials, but havethey planned ahead for behavior
(06:36):
interventions?
Are we giving options whenpossible?
These are all importantelements to put into play when
we're struggling with behaviorin the classroom Then.
Are we positively attending tostudents?
Are we talking through copingskills with them?
Are we focusing on thebehaviors we want rather than
(06:59):
the behaviors we don't want?
I see this a lot in schoolswhere we have teachers that sort
of get stuck on the misbehaviorerrors and those are the only
things they can see.
It's like their radar isconstantly scanning for when is
this going to go wrong?
I'm waiting.
When's the other shoe going todrop, when really we ought to be
(07:20):
scanning for the opportunitiesto positively recognize students
.
Sometimes that goes a long wayand we know it takes many
positives to erase one negativecomment.
So if students are gettingnegatives throughout most of
their day, they're going to comeaway beaten down.
They're going to come awayfeeling why even try, nobody
(07:40):
likes me, it doesn't even matteranyway.
So these are some things thatyou can watch for.
You can help model inclassrooms to really get
teachers on board with beingproactive in classroom behavior
concerns.
Another thing that can reallyhelp us go far in this behavior
(08:02):
game is making sure that theinstructions given are clear and
straightforward.
Teachers need to giveinstructions that are very clear
.
Get your worksheet fromyesterday out of your blue
folder and in that directive.
It is straightforward, it isclear and it is also a one-step
(08:24):
direction.
How many times have you walkedin your classrooms and heard
teachers give these long stringsof expectations where you feel
like you have no idea what to doby the time they get finished?
I often hear this even as youngas kindergarten, hearing
teachers say okay, when we getto the classroom you're going to
(08:46):
go in, you're going to put yourlunchbox away, put on your
jacket, put your snack on yourdesk and then line up for recess
.
Holy smokes, y'all.
That's a lot to remember andthat doesn't only affect
five-year-olds, that affectseveryone.
We need to make sure that ourdirections are one at a time,
let's leave no room for question, let's make sure everybody is
(09:10):
on the same page and, if at allpossible, we need to really
encourage our folks to avoidagain those negative comments
throughout the day.
No, don't stop instead ofproviding a positive feedback.
Thanks for sitting in yourchair.
Now turn around and face thefront of the classroom.
(09:32):
Different approach, and again,these are things that you
already know.
I'm not trying to blow yourminds here, but I do want to
remind you of the fundamentals.
So often we are called to gointo classrooms to really help
and identify what's going on.
If someone's asked you to go into do, you know, a behavior
(09:53):
evaluation or a behavioralobservation.
Personally, these are thethings I'm looking for.
First, are there routines?
Are there transition warnings?
Is everything planned ahead?
Are choices offered?
Are positive coping skillsmodeled and talked about?
Are they talked about when thestudent is not escalated?
(10:15):
That's an important piece ofthat puzzle.
Is the teacher or theprofessional in the room
focusing on the behavior theywant to see, with clear and
straightforward instructionsthat are given one at a time?
Other things that may help,things like visual schedules,
(10:37):
itineraries for the classroomfor your older students, so that
everyone knows what's coming upnext.
Everyone understands theexpectation and how class is
going to proceed that day.
That sense of safety can beprofound for so many of our
students and it only takes a fewminutes to have that up.
So super, super important.
(10:58):
And then, once we have all ofthose things down, once we have
things humming along smoothly,things are rolling pretty well
and we're still not seeing theresults from the student's side
of things that we want to see.
That's when we can startlooking toward some more
intensive behavioralinterventions.
Maybe things like rewardsystems, behavior plans,
(11:23):
consequences for misbehavior.
All of those things can comelater, but at the beginning we
need to be sure that we have thefundamentals in place, and this
is everywhere.
This is in English and math andworld history and athletics and
music, anywhere they go.
We need to make sure thesecomponents are in place.
(11:46):
All right, I hope that washelpful to you.
I'm going to link to somethingcalled the Behavior Hierarchy
from the Child Mind Institute.
If you are familiar with theirwork, I loosely adapted this
podcast episode based on that,but I do want to make sure I'm
giving them credit for theirwork so you can find that link
(12:06):
in the show notes if you'reinterested in following up.
And in the meantime I justencourage you not to go jumping
into battle instantaneously.
Give your teachers time andlatitude to jump in.
That's not to say you can'tprovide counseling in tandem
with these things, but it'sextremely difficult to implement
(12:27):
things in the counseling roomand have them generalize to the
rest of the school campus if wedon't have all of the rest of
our folks on board.
So hopefully that gave you somefood for thought as you walk
through your week this week.
Hope it gave you some things tochew on, perhaps some things to
list out.
Make yourself a little cheatsheet of all the steps that you
(12:48):
might start with before youstart getting serious with more
intensive interventions.
We want to make this leastrestrictive for all students.
We don't want to be pullingthem for counseling if they
don't need it.
If we can provide thesesupports in the classrooms
instead.
That is definitely the best wayto go.
Alright, I'll be back soon withanother episode of the School
(13:10):
for School Counselors podcast.
In the meantime, I hope youhave the best week.
Y'all take care.
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