July 21, 2025 • 21 mins
Needs assessments are everywhere in school counseling, and they're especially enticing when you’re just starting out. They feel like the smart, strategic thing to do. But what if they’re just giving you more to carry?
In this episode, we’re taking a hard look at needs assessments: who’s pushing them, why they’ve become the go-to starting point, and what they can cost you.
We’ll cover the real benefits and the overlooked drawbacks- like ethical risks, political landmines, and the guilt spiral that comes from trying to meet every demand.
You’ll hear how one research-backed insight helped shift the way I think about stakeholder feedback and why your professional judgment might matter more than you’ve been taught.
If you’ve ever asked yourself, “What am I supposed to do next?”, this episode has answers (and a grade you probably won’t expect!).
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Reference:
Zabek, F., Lyons, M.D., Alwani, N. et al. (2023). Roles and functions of school mental health professionals within comprehensive school mental health systems. School Mental Health 15, 1–18. https://doi.org/10.1007/s12310-022-09535-0
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⭐️ Want support with real-world strategies that actually work on your campus? We’re doing that every day in the School for School Counselors Mastermind. Come join us! ⭐️
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Our goal at School for School Counselors is to help school counselors stay on fire, make huge impacts for students, and catalyze change for our roles through grassroots advocacy and collaboration. Listen to get to know more about us and our mission, feel empowered and inspired, and set yourself up for success in the wonderful world of school counseling.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It is time to start a new school year.
You've got your lanyard, youroffice is prepped, your email
signature is updated and readyto go, and now you're thinking
about how do you start this yearbetter, how do you get it
started off the right way?
Quote unquote.
So, like every other schoolcounselor out there, you fire up
(00:24):
Google Forms and you build aneeds assessment because you
want to be data-driven, you wantto gather stakeholder input and
you want to do what you'vealways been taught to do.
But here's the thing what if Itold you that sending that form,
especially at the very start ofyour role on a new campus,
(00:48):
might actually hurt your programmore than it helps?
Keep listening and I'll tellyou why.
Hey, school counselor, welcomeback In this episode of our new
graded series.
We're pulling back the curtainon one of the first tools that
everyone tells you you need theneeds assessment.
(01:08):
It sounds strategic, but is itactually helping or just giving
you more to worry about?
I'll share why I thought aneeds assessment was the right
move early on, what the researchsays about its usefulness and
why you don't need to carry theweight of everyone else's wish
list just to prove you're doingyour job.
(01:28):
So if you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, some
clarity on your work and alittle bit of rebellion, you're
going to be in the right place.
I'm Steph Johnson and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast, and this is the Schoolfor School Counselors podcast.
Back as a younger schoolcounselor, I can remember being
(01:50):
new on a campus and not reallyknowing what my predecessor had
done.
I had a vague idea.
She talked a lot about guidancelessons and that was kind of it
.
I inherited an office full ofyellow papers.
There were some magnetic wordson the side of one of the many
filing cabinets in that officeand I just I didn't feel like I
(02:12):
had a really good hold on whatshe had been doing, what the
campus expected of me or reallyeven the direction that I wanted
to build that school counselingprogram that I wanted to build
that school counseling program.
So, after I spent an entiresummer planning out curriculum
and aligning it across gradesand doing all the things I
thought I should do to be aprepared and professional school
(02:35):
counselor by the way, thatdidn't work out so well I also
prepared a needs assessment andI was chomping at the bit until
professional development began.
Our teachers arrived on campusand I proudly distributed the
link to the needs assessment andvirtually said tell me what you
think.
(02:55):
And boy oh boy, did they ever Igot an earful or, I guess, an
eyeful about what teachersreally wanted, what their
perception was of the thingsthat had been happening on that
campus and what they expected tosee in the future.
What I didn't realize at thetime was that I was setting
(03:17):
myself up.
I was trying to be theconscientious school counselor,
I wanted to be a respectedmember of the campus team, but
ultimately what I really did wasundermine myself.
So I want to talk about theseneeds assessments, why everybody
is so gung-ho on them and somethings that you should be
(03:40):
looking at before you actuallyhit send.
All right, so in case you don'tknow, I bet you do.
But needs assessments arebasically surveys.
You send them out to teachers,parents, students or
administrators and essentiallyyou're asking what do students
at this school need?
(04:00):
The logic is if you don't askwhat people need, how can you
make a plan to meet those needs?
So usually these needsassessments include questions
about things like academicsupport, emotional needs,
college and career readiness,behavior, attendance, sel
(04:21):
anything that you can name aspart of a school counseling
program.
It is intended to help youbuild a program that responds to
the specific needs of the kidsin your school, which sounds
great in theory that in the realworld of school counseling,
(04:42):
theory does not always get thejob done.
So the reason that we hear somuch about needs assessments at
the start of the year is becauseASCA recommends them.
The ASCA national modelincludes needs assessments as
part of your program foundationand your professors probably
(05:03):
pushed them.
If you had any courses relatedto school counseling and then if
you've been in any schoolcounselor Facebook group on the
planet, you've seen this adviceStart your year with a needs
assessment.
It is like a rite of passage andI'll be honest, when I was new,
as I just told you, I thought aneeds assessment would be gold.
(05:26):
It felt responsible, it feltprofessional and it felt like a
super strategic move.
Here's why needs assessmentsfeel so good they make you feel
like you're doing somethingproductive without having to
know everything about everything.
Yet If you don't know yourstudents, you can ask.
(05:48):
Don't know the staff?
Ask.
Don't know what your role issupposed to be on that campus?
Ask.
It feels collaborative andprofessional and it gives you a
sense of direction through anunderstanding of what your
stakeholders are thinking.
Sometimes we feel like theydemonstrate our initiative,
(06:10):
especially to administrators whoreally like structure and
accountability, and they canhelp you feel like you're making
good decisions when you'reoverwhelmed or you just straight
up don't know where to start.
There are some huge drawbacks toneeds assessments that no one
tells you about, some hugedrawbacks to needs assessments
(06:34):
that no one tells you about.
So here are five reasons youmay want to hold off on sending
out that needs assessment, atleast for now.
First, you get the everythingbut the kitchen sink problem.
When you ask people whatstudents on their campus need,
they are going to tell you andthey're going to tell you
everything.
You are going to get theseunfiltered wish lists with no
(06:57):
prioritization, and it's goingto be very overwhelming because
chances are you're going to geta list asking you for more SEL,
more small groups, more behaviorsupport, more mental health,
more academic help, more parentoutreach, more everything.
(07:17):
And even if, logically, youknow you can't do it all, a
little voice creeps in and saysif the students need it,
shouldn't I be doing it?
Which turns that list into thisweight that you carry on your
shoulders, and no matter howgreat your perspective is on all
(07:39):
of this, that weight eventuallystarts pulling at your
confidence and your energy andyour sense of direction and it
dilutes your efforts because youend up running around
overextending yourself, tryingto be too helpful and then it
ends up being too much.
So if you don't want to feellike the junk drawer of the
(08:03):
school, you may want to thinktwice about soliciting all of
this feedback, because you mayend up feeling behind before the
year even begins and you knowyou've got some surprises in
store for you once you get intoall of this in the school year.
Second, once you open thesuggestion box, they're gonna be
(08:26):
watching.
The moment that you ask forfeedback, you create an
expectation on your campusbecause now people expect to see
their ideas reflected in yourprogramming and, trust me,
they're watching.
And when they don't see thoseideas come to fruition in the
(08:47):
way that they imagine them, youbecome the counselor who asked
for feedback but didn't listen,even if you thought you were
just being collaborative.
What you really did was openyourself up to critique from
people who do not understandyour scope, your constraints or
your goals, and you imply thatother people on your campus are
(09:11):
qualified to direct yourprogramming.
My friend, on the majority ofcampuses that I know about and
remember, I work with hundredsof school counselors every week.
That is a precedent that willnot be helpful to you If you are
on a campus where you feel likeyou are being constantly
(09:33):
scrutinized by jealous staff whoremain convinced that you
effortlessly lounge in youroffice giving pep talks and
talking about feelings all day.
Soliciting other people'sexpectations is not going to be
helpful to the level of respectthat you garner each day that
you're on campus.
(09:53):
Third, when we talk about needsassessments with regard to
students, it's important tounderstand that there are legal
limits to what you can ask in aschool survey, especially if you
have not gotten explicitparental consent.
And in our current politicalclimate, even a well-meaning
(10:18):
needs assessment can raise redflags and damage trust with
families and your district.
Under the Protection of PeopleRights Amendment PPRA, you can't
ask about things like mentalhealth status, family dynamics,
political beliefs or immigrationconcerns unless you follow very
specific guidelines, and insome states even asking basic
(10:43):
mental health questions can getyou in a whole bunch of trouble.
Fourth, you may not be able toact on the results you get
anyway.
Let's say.
You dodge all the red tape, yousend out a needs assessment and
you get great responses.
So now what You've got?
(11:04):
18 students asking for anxietygroups, teachers asking for more
classroom support, parentsrequesting SEL nights and an
administrator who has come upwith this great, grand vision.
For all of these things you'regoing to spearhead on campus,
but you are already slammed.
You don't have the time,especially if you're running a 1
(11:26):
to 500 or higher ratio whereyou are the only school
counselor for hundreds andhundreds of students.
A 2022 study of school-basedmental health professionals by
Ali and team found that evenwhen practitioners know what
students need, they're often toooverextended to provide it.
(11:48):
Their time is being pulled awayby administrative tasks,
compliance demands and dutiesthat have nothing to do with
clinical skill.
Does that sound familiar?
I bet it does.
You don't have six hours a weekto build a brand new tier two
intervention, even if that'swhat 62% of your survey
(12:10):
respondents said they wanted,and then, in some situations,
you don't even have the autonomy.
Maybe you want to act on someof the suggestions, but your
administrator is perfectlycontent with assigning you to a
classroom as a glorified SELspecials teacher.
(12:30):
So now you've asked forfeedback, but you were powerless
to follow up.
And I won't even go into theliability that you may assume
once you become aware of needsthat aren't able to address them
.
That's a whole otherconversation.
And then, fifth, needsassessments often reinforce the
(12:52):
wrong power dynamic.
This is a big one that mostpeople don't think about.
When you ask others to tell youwhat your program should focus
on, you're sending a message andthe message typically is heard
as, and the message typically isheard as I'm going to build my
(13:14):
program based on what you say.
It implies that your expertiseisn't quite enough, that others
may know how to build thisbetter than you, that you need
direction before you can leadand y'all that's a problem
Because you are the one trainedin mental health, you're the one
(13:41):
that understands the ethicalframeworks of our work and
you're the one who understandsthe difference between a tier
one skill and a tier threereferral and a Tier 3 referral.
You can gather input on yourcampus, but do it in a way where
you're not abdicating yourcounseling judgment in the
process and implying that youneed support to do your job.
So what do you do instead?
(14:04):
This is the part of the needsassessment conversation that no
one ever hears.
You don't need a needsassessment to start the year
successfully.
What you need is to payattention.
You need to hear the hallwayconversations.
You need to watch during lunchduty.
(14:25):
You need to take note of thoseweird pauses in the teacher's
lounge or the nervous energyoutside the front office.
You need to know those things.
That's data too, and it'susually better than what you can
get from a survey if you'reintentional about it, than what
you can get from a survey ifyou're intentional about it.
(14:49):
I often advise new schoolcounselors in my School for
School Counselors Mastermind tospend at least the first year
watching, listening and learning, because often when you're told
the story of a campus, you aretold the story that everybody
wants you to know, right.
You don't ever get the storybehind the story that everybody
wants you to know, right.
You don't ever get the storybehind the story.
No one ever just comes rightout and explains the unwritten
(15:12):
rules or the power dynamics onthat campus.
Those are kind of the dirtysecrets that linger in the
background and those are reallythe things that you need to know
in order to propel your campustoward happiness and healthiness
in their school year.
Think about it this way.
(15:33):
Think about being a chef andyou walk into a brand new
kitchen for the first time.
You have no idea whatingredients are there, you don't
know which equipment works andwhich is kind of dicey, and you
haven't even turned on the stove.
But instead of walking aroundthe kitchen getting the lay of
the land and understanding whatit is you're working with, you
(15:56):
walk straight into the diningroom and you start asking
customers what should I cooktoday?
So now you've promised a menuand you don't even know if it's
possible.
You're trying to impresseveryone without any real sense
of what you're working with.
That's what a rushed needsassessment does.
(16:17):
It makes you look decisive fora little while, but it leaves
you scrambling to deliver onpromises that you really weren't
ready to make.
You don't have to start with asurvey form.
You can start with curiosity,with observation, with being
(16:37):
present, and then, once you'velearned your school, you'll be
in a much stronger position toask the right questions to the
right people about the rightthings.
And that's when, if you chooseto use one, a needs assessment
can actually be useful.
(16:59):
So now that we've talked aboutall of the ins and outs of needs
assessments, how they can behelpful, how they can be not so
helpful and some reallydangerous things you need to
keep an eye out for.
Let's grade it.
In this series, it's all aboutgrading the things that we are
(17:20):
told are the tried and trueapproaches for our profession.
We've graded the ASCA nationalmodel.
We've graded the idea ofshort-term school counseling,
and now let's grade needsassessment.
In the category of clarity,where most people understand the
what of the needs assessmentbut not the why, I'm going to
(17:41):
give that a C+.
When we look at effectiveness,we know that needs assessments
only work when they're pairedwith some strong program
boundaries as well as theability to actually execute on
the suggestions.
The majority of schoolcounselors working in public
schools right now do not havethe time or autonomy to follow
(18:05):
up on most of the feedbackthey're going to receive.
So in the category ofeffectiveness, I'm going to give
needs assessments a C.
Now, when we talk about theethics of needs assessments, we
know there are ways to use thesesurveys responsibly and in
alignment with things like PPRAand district policies, but the
(18:29):
political climate adds risk.
So for that reason, I'm goingto give the ethics of needs
assessments a, b, minus.
And then for real world fit.
How realistic and sustainableis the idea of needs assessments
?
And, as I've talked about, mostcounselors cannot really act on
(18:51):
the results in a supersustainable way.
They might be able to pick upone or two suggestions and push
the rest to the side for anothertime, but then again that's
going to imply that you're notable to follow through.
So for real world fit, I'mgoing to give needs assessments
a D.
That gives us an overall scorefor needs assessments of a C
(19:16):
minus.
They look professional, butmost often they're setting you
up for overcommitment and blameeither from others or you just
blaming yourself.
Building a school counselingprogram is hard, especially
these days, and if you're tiredof trying to build your program
(19:38):
off of guesswork or off ofGoogle Forms or off of everybody
else's dang opinions.
That's exactly why we developedthe Smart School Counseling
Framework inside the School forSchool Counselors Mastermind.
It's built for real-worldschool counselors who want to
lead strategically and not justreact to every dumpster fire
(20:01):
that lands on their desk.
Instead of chasing whateverybody says you should do,
the SMART framework helps youfocus on five simple, powerful
shifts Start with strategy, movewith intention, assess impact,
relate to stakeholders andthrive through clarity.
(20:22):
It is hands down how schoolcounselors stop drowning in
demands and start leading withconfidence, and if that sounds
like the shift you've beenneeding, you need to come check
it out.
You can find the link for themastermind in the show notes.
Next time on Graded, you've beentold that use of time tracking
(20:46):
is your strongest advocacy tool,and y'all, I'm the biggest use
of time geek you will ever hopeto meet.
But what if the spreadsheetisn't helping?
What if it ends up being justanother way to make you feel
like you are not enough?
Ends up being just another wayto make you feel like you are
(21:08):
not enough?
In the next episode, we'regoing to talk about how use of
time data gets weaponized, whyit rarely works the way it's
supposed to, and what you can doinstead.
So keep listening to thepodcast and if this episode made
you rethink your strategy,share it with a colleague, and
don't forget to hit thatsubscribe button so you won't
miss that next episode.
(21:29):
We've got this y'all because weare truly stronger and smarter
together.
I'll see you back here againreal soon, take care.
It is time to start a new school year.
You've got your lanyard, youroffice is prepped, your email
signature is updated and readyto go, and now you're thinking
about how do you start this yearbetter, how do you get it
started off the right way?
Quote unquote.
So, like every other schoolcounselor out there, you fire up
(00:24):
Google Forms and you build aneeds assessment because you
want to be data-driven, you wantto gather stakeholder input and
you want to do what you'vealways been taught to do.
But here's the thing what if Itold you that sending that form,
especially at the very start ofyour role on a new campus,
(00:48):
might actually hurt your programmore than it helps?
Keep listening and I'll tellyou why.
Hey, school counselor, welcomeback In this episode of our new
graded series.
We're pulling back the curtainon one of the first tools that
everyone tells you you need theneeds assessment.
(01:08):
It sounds strategic, but is itactually helping or just giving
you more to worry about?
I'll share why I thought aneeds assessment was the right
move early on, what the researchsays about its usefulness and
why you don't need to carry theweight of everyone else's wish
list just to prove you're doingyour job.
(01:28):
So if you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, some
clarity on your work and alittle bit of rebellion, you're
going to be in the right place.
I'm Steph Johnson and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast, and this is the Schoolfor School Counselors podcast.
Back as a younger schoolcounselor, I can remember being
(01:50):
new on a campus and not reallyknowing what my predecessor had
done.
I had a vague idea.
She talked a lot about guidancelessons and that was kind of it
.
I inherited an office full ofyellow papers.
There were some magnetic wordson the side of one of the many
filing cabinets in that officeand I just I didn't feel like I
(02:12):
had a really good hold on whatshe had been doing, what the
campus expected of me or reallyeven the direction that I wanted
to build that school counselingprogram that I wanted to build
that school counseling program.
So, after I spent an entiresummer planning out curriculum
and aligning it across gradesand doing all the things I
thought I should do to be aprepared and professional school
(02:35):
counselor by the way, thatdidn't work out so well I also
prepared a needs assessment andI was chomping at the bit until
professional development began.
Our teachers arrived on campusand I proudly distributed the
link to the needs assessment andvirtually said tell me what you
think.
(02:55):
And boy oh boy, did they ever Igot an earful or, I guess, an
eyeful about what teachersreally wanted, what their
perception was of the thingsthat had been happening on that
campus and what they expected tosee in the future.
What I didn't realize at thetime was that I was setting
(03:17):
myself up.
I was trying to be theconscientious school counselor,
I wanted to be a respectedmember of the campus team, but
ultimately what I really did wasundermine myself.
So I want to talk about theseneeds assessments, why everybody
is so gung-ho on them and somethings that you should be
(03:40):
looking at before you actuallyhit send.
All right, so in case you don'tknow, I bet you do.
But needs assessments arebasically surveys.
You send them out to teachers,parents, students or
administrators and essentiallyyou're asking what do students
at this school need?
(04:00):
The logic is if you don't askwhat people need, how can you
make a plan to meet those needs?
So usually these needsassessments include questions
about things like academicsupport, emotional needs,
college and career readiness,behavior, attendance, sel
(04:21):
anything that you can name aspart of a school counseling
program.
It is intended to help youbuild a program that responds to
the specific needs of the kidsin your school, which sounds
great in theory that in the realworld of school counseling,
(04:42):
theory does not always get thejob done.
So the reason that we hear somuch about needs assessments at
the start of the year is becauseASCA recommends them.
The ASCA national modelincludes needs assessments as
part of your program foundationand your professors probably
(05:03):
pushed them.
If you had any courses relatedto school counseling and then if
you've been in any schoolcounselor Facebook group on the
planet, you've seen this adviceStart your year with a needs
assessment.
It is like a rite of passage andI'll be honest, when I was new,
as I just told you, I thought aneeds assessment would be gold.
(05:26):
It felt responsible, it feltprofessional and it felt like a
super strategic move.
Here's why needs assessmentsfeel so good they make you feel
like you're doing somethingproductive without having to
know everything about everything.
Yet If you don't know yourstudents, you can ask.
(05:48):
Don't know the staff?
Ask.
Don't know what your role issupposed to be on that campus?
Ask.
It feels collaborative andprofessional and it gives you a
sense of direction through anunderstanding of what your
stakeholders are thinking.
Sometimes we feel like theydemonstrate our initiative,
(06:10):
especially to administrators whoreally like structure and
accountability, and they canhelp you feel like you're making
good decisions when you'reoverwhelmed or you just straight
up don't know where to start.
There are some huge drawbacks toneeds assessments that no one
tells you about, some hugedrawbacks to needs assessments
(06:34):
that no one tells you about.
So here are five reasons youmay want to hold off on sending
out that needs assessment, atleast for now.
First, you get the everythingbut the kitchen sink problem.
When you ask people whatstudents on their campus need,
they are going to tell you andthey're going to tell you
everything.
You are going to get theseunfiltered wish lists with no
(06:57):
prioritization, and it's goingto be very overwhelming because
chances are you're going to geta list asking you for more SEL,
more small groups, more behaviorsupport, more mental health,
more academic help, more parentoutreach, more everything.
(07:17):
And even if, logically, youknow you can't do it all, a
little voice creeps in and saysif the students need it,
shouldn't I be doing it?
Which turns that list into thisweight that you carry on your
shoulders, and no matter howgreat your perspective is on all
(07:39):
of this, that weight eventuallystarts pulling at your
confidence and your energy andyour sense of direction and it
dilutes your efforts because youend up running around
overextending yourself, tryingto be too helpful and then it
ends up being too much.
So if you don't want to feellike the junk drawer of the
(08:03):
school, you may want to thinktwice about soliciting all of
this feedback, because you mayend up feeling behind before the
year even begins and you knowyou've got some surprises in
store for you once you get intoall of this in the school year.
Second, once you open thesuggestion box, they're gonna be
(08:26):
watching.
The moment that you ask forfeedback, you create an
expectation on your campusbecause now people expect to see
their ideas reflected in yourprogramming and, trust me,
they're watching.
And when they don't see thoseideas come to fruition in the
(08:47):
way that they imagine them, youbecome the counselor who asked
for feedback but didn't listen,even if you thought you were
just being collaborative.
What you really did was openyourself up to critique from
people who do not understandyour scope, your constraints or
your goals, and you imply thatother people on your campus are
(09:11):
qualified to direct yourprogramming.
My friend, on the majority ofcampuses that I know about and
remember, I work with hundredsof school counselors every week.
That is a precedent that willnot be helpful to you If you are
on a campus where you feel likeyou are being constantly
(09:33):
scrutinized by jealous staff whoremain convinced that you
effortlessly lounge in youroffice giving pep talks and
talking about feelings all day.
Soliciting other people'sexpectations is not going to be
helpful to the level of respectthat you garner each day that
you're on campus.
(09:53):
Third, when we talk about needsassessments with regard to
students, it's important tounderstand that there are legal
limits to what you can ask in aschool survey, especially if you
have not gotten explicitparental consent.
And in our current politicalclimate, even a well-meaning
(10:18):
needs assessment can raise redflags and damage trust with
families and your district.
Under the Protection of PeopleRights Amendment PPRA, you can't
ask about things like mentalhealth status, family dynamics,
political beliefs or immigrationconcerns unless you follow very
specific guidelines, and insome states even asking basic
(10:43):
mental health questions can getyou in a whole bunch of trouble.
Fourth, you may not be able toact on the results you get
anyway.
Let's say.
You dodge all the red tape, yousend out a needs assessment and
you get great responses.
So now what You've got?
(11:04):
18 students asking for anxietygroups, teachers asking for more
classroom support, parentsrequesting SEL nights and an
administrator who has come upwith this great, grand vision.
For all of these things you'regoing to spearhead on campus,
but you are already slammed.
You don't have the time,especially if you're running a 1
(11:26):
to 500 or higher ratio whereyou are the only school
counselor for hundreds andhundreds of students.
A 2022 study of school-basedmental health professionals by
Ali and team found that evenwhen practitioners know what
students need, they're often toooverextended to provide it.
(11:48):
Their time is being pulled awayby administrative tasks,
compliance demands and dutiesthat have nothing to do with
clinical skill.
Does that sound familiar?
I bet it does.
You don't have six hours a weekto build a brand new tier two
intervention, even if that'swhat 62% of your survey
(12:10):
respondents said they wanted,and then, in some situations,
you don't even have the autonomy.
Maybe you want to act on someof the suggestions, but your
administrator is perfectlycontent with assigning you to a
classroom as a glorified SELspecials teacher.
(12:30):
So now you've asked forfeedback, but you were powerless
to follow up.
And I won't even go into theliability that you may assume
once you become aware of needsthat aren't able to address them
.
That's a whole otherconversation.
And then, fifth, needsassessments often reinforce the
(12:52):
wrong power dynamic.
This is a big one that mostpeople don't think about.
When you ask others to tell youwhat your program should focus
on, you're sending a message andthe message typically is heard
as, and the message typically isheard as I'm going to build my
(13:14):
program based on what you say.
It implies that your expertiseisn't quite enough, that others
may know how to build thisbetter than you, that you need
direction before you can leadand y'all that's a problem
Because you are the one trainedin mental health, you're the one
(13:41):
that understands the ethicalframeworks of our work and
you're the one who understandsthe difference between a tier
one skill and a tier threereferral and a Tier 3 referral.
You can gather input on yourcampus, but do it in a way where
you're not abdicating yourcounseling judgment in the
process and implying that youneed support to do your job.
So what do you do instead?
(14:04):
This is the part of the needsassessment conversation that no
one ever hears.
You don't need a needsassessment to start the year
successfully.
What you need is to payattention.
You need to hear the hallwayconversations.
You need to watch during lunchduty.
(14:25):
You need to take note of thoseweird pauses in the teacher's
lounge or the nervous energyoutside the front office.
You need to know those things.
That's data too, and it'susually better than what you can
get from a survey if you'reintentional about it, than what
you can get from a survey ifyou're intentional about it.
(14:49):
I often advise new schoolcounselors in my School for
School Counselors Mastermind tospend at least the first year
watching, listening and learning, because often when you're told
the story of a campus, you aretold the story that everybody
wants you to know, right.
You don't ever get the storybehind the story that everybody
wants you to know, right.
You don't ever get the storybehind the story.
No one ever just comes rightout and explains the unwritten
(15:12):
rules or the power dynamics onthat campus.
Those are kind of the dirtysecrets that linger in the
background and those are reallythe things that you need to know
in order to propel your campustoward happiness and healthiness
in their school year.
Think about it this way.
(15:33):
Think about being a chef andyou walk into a brand new
kitchen for the first time.
You have no idea whatingredients are there, you don't
know which equipment works andwhich is kind of dicey, and you
haven't even turned on the stove.
But instead of walking aroundthe kitchen getting the lay of
the land and understanding whatit is you're working with, you
(15:56):
walk straight into the diningroom and you start asking
customers what should I cooktoday?
So now you've promised a menuand you don't even know if it's
possible.
You're trying to impresseveryone without any real sense
of what you're working with.
That's what a rushed needsassessment does.
(16:17):
It makes you look decisive fora little while, but it leaves
you scrambling to deliver onpromises that you really weren't
ready to make.
You don't have to start with asurvey form.
You can start with curiosity,with observation, with being
(16:37):
present, and then, once you'velearned your school, you'll be
in a much stronger position toask the right questions to the
right people about the rightthings.
And that's when, if you chooseto use one, a needs assessment
can actually be useful.
(16:59):
So now that we've talked aboutall of the ins and outs of needs
assessments, how they can behelpful, how they can be not so
helpful and some reallydangerous things you need to
keep an eye out for.
Let's grade it.
In this series, it's all aboutgrading the things that we are
(17:20):
told are the tried and trueapproaches for our profession.
We've graded the ASCA nationalmodel.
We've graded the idea ofshort-term school counseling,
and now let's grade needsassessment.
In the category of clarity,where most people understand the
what of the needs assessmentbut not the why, I'm going to
(17:41):
give that a C+.
When we look at effectiveness,we know that needs assessments
only work when they're pairedwith some strong program
boundaries as well as theability to actually execute on
the suggestions.
The majority of schoolcounselors working in public
schools right now do not havethe time or autonomy to follow
(18:05):
up on most of the feedbackthey're going to receive.
So in the category ofeffectiveness, I'm going to give
needs assessments a C.
Now, when we talk about theethics of needs assessments, we
know there are ways to use thesesurveys responsibly and in
alignment with things like PPRAand district policies, but the
(18:29):
political climate adds risk.
So for that reason, I'm goingto give the ethics of needs
assessments a, b, minus.
And then for real world fit.
How realistic and sustainableis the idea of needs assessments
?
And, as I've talked about, mostcounselors cannot really act on
(18:51):
the results in a supersustainable way.
They might be able to pick upone or two suggestions and push
the rest to the side for anothertime, but then again that's
going to imply that you're notable to follow through.
So for real world fit, I'mgoing to give needs assessments
a D.
That gives us an overall scorefor needs assessments of a C
(19:16):
minus.
They look professional, butmost often they're setting you
up for overcommitment and blameeither from others or you just
blaming yourself.
Building a school counselingprogram is hard, especially
these days, and if you're tiredof trying to build your program
(19:38):
off of guesswork or off ofGoogle Forms or off of everybody
else's dang opinions.
That's exactly why we developedthe Smart School Counseling
Framework inside the School forSchool Counselors Mastermind.
It's built for real-worldschool counselors who want to
lead strategically and not justreact to every dumpster fire
(20:01):
that lands on their desk.
Instead of chasing whateverybody says you should do,
the SMART framework helps youfocus on five simple, powerful
shifts Start with strategy, movewith intention, assess impact,
relate to stakeholders andthrive through clarity.
(20:22):
It is hands down how schoolcounselors stop drowning in
demands and start leading withconfidence, and if that sounds
like the shift you've beenneeding, you need to come check
it out.
You can find the link for themastermind in the show notes.
Next time on Graded, you've beentold that use of time tracking
(20:46):
is your strongest advocacy tool,and y'all, I'm the biggest use
of time geek you will ever hopeto meet.
But what if the spreadsheetisn't helping?
What if it ends up being justanother way to make you feel
like you are not enough?
Ends up being just another wayto make you feel like you are
(21:08):
not enough?
In the next episode, we'regoing to talk about how use of
time data gets weaponized, whyit rarely works the way it's
supposed to, and what you can doinstead.
So keep listening to thepodcast and if this episode made
you rethink your strategy,share it with a colleague, and
don't forget to hit thatsubscribe button so you won't
miss that next episode.
(21:29):
We've got this y'all because weare truly stronger and smarter
together.
I'll see you back here againreal soon, take care.
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