Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What if I told you
that, as school counselors, our
very well-meaning instinct tostep in and fix student problems
could actually be hurting them?
Imagine a student comes to youand they're super frustrated
because they're having some sortof a conflict with their
friends, and every fiber of yourtraining and your knowledge
(00:24):
pushes you to step in, tomediate and to maybe even act as
the peacemaker.
But what if, when we do that,we're actually preventing that
student from developing theskills they desperately need?
Today we're going to be talkingabout how to do less for our
(00:45):
students to actually give themmore.
We're going to give them moreresilience, more self-advocacy
and the confidence to tackletheir own challenges.
We're going to talk about howempowering students to meet
their own challenges might bethe most powerful thing we do.
But before we jump into that, Iwant to read some more of the
(01:09):
amazing reviews that we receivedas part of our recent School
for School Counselors pod party.
Before I read these, I want toremind you you don't have to
wait for a pod party to submit areview.
We love them all the days ofthe week, anytime you want to
send one in with some shiny goldstars, we would love and be
(01:30):
delighted to receive those.
Our first review comes from theprimary counselor, and their
review said the bestprofessional development
consists of what you put in yourmind on a regular basis.
In the ever-evolving world ofthe school counselor, this
entertaining and educationalpodcast is a must.
(01:51):
Thank you so much, primarycounselor.
And our second review comesfrom Jess Loves Tigers.
I just love that name, and thereview is titled Great Resource
with five shiny gold stars.
It goes on to say this thispodcast has helped me so much.
I listen on my way to work.
(02:12):
I've been a school counselorfor over 20 years.
Listening to this and beingpart of the Facebook group has
reminded me of why I wanted tobe a school counselor.
Oh my goodness, so powerful.
Thank you, just Loves Tigers,thank you, the primary counselor
, and thanks to anyone else whofeels led to submit a podcast
(02:35):
review.
That's how people get shown ourpodcast.
That's how they decide whetheror not they wanna give it a spin
, and so your help with that isso greatly appreciated, and I
would love to read your reviewon a future episode.
All right, so back to the topicof this week.
We are looking at somethingthat we've probably all felt at
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some point, and that is the urgeto fix things for students.
That feeling is so compellingthat sometimes we don't even
realize that we're doing itright.
We talk all the time in theschool for school counselors
world about being helpers, notfixers.
But what if, despite our verybest intentions, that urge was
(03:25):
exactly what's preventing someof our students from growing?
We have to really talk abouthow we can help students develop
self-advocacy andproblem-solving skills and
really recognize the fact thatresilience is built through
ownership of challenges and whenstudents can really navigate
(03:50):
their own difficulties, we startcooking with gas a little bit.
We're also going to talk todayabout some practical strategies
for how to know when do you stepin, when do you stay to the
side, and how this approach canalso lighten your load as a
school counselor.
So get ready to have your mindblown, because I think sometimes
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the best thing that we can dofor students is actually to do
less.
Now, I started thinking aboutthis as I was reflecting on my
master's education and theprofessional development I've
done since then, both withregard to true therapy and also
to school counseling, and mymind has gone back to Donald
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Winnicott over the last coupleof years, thinking about the
idea of the good enough parent.
Do you remember Winnicott andthe good enough parent?
He asserted that a parentdoesn't have to be perfect, they
just need to be good enough.
And when they are, that'sactually what supports a child's
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emotional development and theirresilience.
What supports a child'semotional development and their
resilience?
The main idea of all that wasthat parents should meet their
children's needs most of thetime, but that those slight
imperfections that we experience, those moments where we're not
immediately on top of things orwe're not able to respond in the
way that we want to, areactually necessary for children
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to begin to develop autonomy andresilience.
That's how they begin tounderstand I am separate from
the person caring for me.
I can handle some problems.
And then Winnicott's assertionswent on to say avoid trying to
be the perfect parent.
Now tell this to some of thefolks that are on social media
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these days, right, where perfectparenting is all the rage and
people will do anything toappear as though they're the
perfect parent.
But according to Winnicott, thepursuit of being the perfect
parent leads to exhaustion.
It can even lead to resentment,and we have to be able to
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recognize that small failures onour part are part of the
process that helps children grow.
That way, they can growemotionally, they can develop
independence, they can developproblem solving all of the
things we've talked about before.
They also learn to developcoping mechanisms, which is why
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I find it so interesting that wehave all of these social media
addicted parents and so manychildren in schools who seem to
have no coping mechanisms.
Have you noticed this?
I'm waiting for someone to puta study out about this, but at
the end of the day, the point isthat parents should be able to
set personal boundaries, thatparents need to have space to
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rest and recharge, not only fortheir own well-being but for the
ultimate well-being of theirfamily.
So with our little review ofWinnicott, you can now maybe
kind of see where I'm going withgood enough school counseling.
The idea of good enough schoolcounseling was adapted from
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Winnicott's good enoughparenting, and I think it's a
pretty good comparison, because,as we're working in the school
counselor capacity, we have alot of things coming at us at
once, don't we?
We're balancing student needs,we're managing our campus
demands, time constraints, we'retrying to slip a little bit of
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good self-care in there, and weknow that the feasibility of the
models that we've been given issubpar, right?
I mean, let's just be real.
As I was thinking through this,I went and pulled some
statistics just to make surethat I wasn't misspeaking.
But I will tell you that thispast year, 101 schools were
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awarded ramp status from ASCA,the American School Counselor
Association.
That seems pretty impressiveuntil you realize that there are
over 115,000 schools in theUnited States.
So when you do the math on that, that's less than nine, one
hundredth of one percent of allschools.
(08:25):
This is not to talk trash onASCA and its ramp status.
I think both ideas arewonderful, but I do think it
goes to show the difficulty inattaining those standards those
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standards right.
When less than nineone-hundredths of one percent
are able to attain thatdistinction, that might mean
that the bar has been set alittle high, right, and you know
that because you feel it everyday.
If we look at the all-time rampstatus 20 years we've only
managed to attain ramp status in1.1% of US schools.
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I think it goes to show thatthe ASCA national model is a
perfectionistic model.
It's an ideal.
It's great because we needstandards to aspire to.
But that ideal has become such anormative consensus in our work
, right?
Everybody just feels like thatshould be what we're all aiming
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for, and it's driving a lot ofmaladaptive professional beliefs
.
It's changing the way we seeour work into something that is
perhaps not very healthy.
We need to be able to try tohelp students with their future
planning, their goals, theiremotional and social well-being
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all of the things that we knoware so important to us but we
also have to accept the limitsof our control and of our
resources.
We have to be looking towardpractices that are going to be
sustainable for us and thatdon't sacrifice our personal
well-being or our professionalboundaries Y'all.
(10:11):
I have lots and lots ofepisodes about that very thing
on the podcast, so I won'tbelabor the point here, but I
will say that theseimperfections in our program
setups are maybe not theAchilles heel that we've always
been taught to believe.
Maybe some of these concerns,while we hope they don't last
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forever, are actually catalyzingour growth and our students'
growth on our campuses.
Let me tell you what I mean bythat our campuses.
Let me tell you what I mean bythat.
When we talk about good enoughcounseling and sustainable
practices for our work.
We have to reject the idea thatwe're expected to be a perfect
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counselor who meets everybody'sneeds whenever they need
something right.
Instead, we have to focus onwhat's realistically achievable.
Our goal, then, has to be tocreate meaningful impacts for
academic, social, emotionaldevelopment of students, without
expecting to solve everyproblem or meet every need
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perfectly, and that as soon as astudent expresses a concern or
a problem, we don't have to turnon the emergency light and go
running to the rescue Y'all.
It's just not sustainable, andyou know this and I know this.
But for some reason, when we'retalking about school counseling
in social media, when we'retalking about it in articles or
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journal publications, theconversation always seems to
bend back toward the Ask, aNational model and attaining the
perfect ideal.
And when we have only 1.1% ofschools in the last 20 years
that have been able to provethat they've attained that ideal
, that doesn't really seem rightor fair, does it?
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Overworking to pursue thoseideals serves nobody.
It doesn't serve you and itdoes not serve your students.
There are ways to look at yourwork to determine where you have
room to grow.
Certainly, there's nothingwrong with trying to grow and
improve what you're doing.
We've developed an assessmentto help you along that way.
(12:28):
If you're interested, you cango to smartschoolcounselingcom
to access the Smart SchoolCounseling Assessment.
But if we are looking at beingthe good enough counselor, not
only does it take away theexpectation of perfection, but
it reminds us that if studentsare left to navigate their own
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concerns to an acceptable extent, they could develop their own
coping mechanisms.
They could develop their ownsolutions to some of the things
that we've been running to therescue about.
Does that make sense?
We don't want to be theover-functioning school
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counselor.
We don't want to be the onethat everybody calls when
somebody sneezes the wrongdirection and oh my goodness,
that didn't sound right.
Can you talk to them and makesure that they're okay?
Now, you may chuckle a littlebit when you hear that, but you
know, and I know, that we'vebeen called to things just like
that, haven't we?
I know I have to tell my staffoften.
Hey, I just want to remind youthat everybody gets sad
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sometimes.
It's okay.
We all have days where we're ina bad mood or we're sad or
we're tired.
All of that is okay, as long asit doesn't persist right, and
it's not affecting our abilityto go about our day-to-day
business.
It's okay to feel sad.
It's okay to feel frustrated.
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I'm not here to magically cureeveryone's feelings.
That's not my job.
My job is to help students copeand develop strategies and
skills.
When things are a little bitlonger lasting, when it's not
just a bad day Maybe it's been acouple of bad weeks or bad
months and it's starting tointerfere with their ability to
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perform academically or tomaintain relationships with the
people around them.
That's when I come in, not justwhen someone is sad the people
around them.
That's when I come in, not justwhen someone is sad.
But we do have a lot of schoolcounselors who have built this
belief in their mind that ifthey are that hypervigilant,
over-functioning schoolcounselor, that actually means
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that they're more worthy.
And I'm here to tell you Ithink those people are probably
struggling a lot.
They're probably strugglingwith the demands of their work I
mean, can you imagine runningto every little thing all day
long?
That just sounds completelyexhausting to me.
But also they're teaching theirstaff and their students to
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over-rely on them, and thatdefinitely is a problem.
Think, too, about peer conflict.
So many people rush tointervention.
When we're talking about peerconflict, we immediately start
talking about restorativeconversations and mediation and
all of these other things thattake a lot of time and bandwidth
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and between you and me, I don'tsee a lot of people posting
about how amazing theirrestorative conversations have
been.
Have you Like it's trendy?
People love to throw the wordout.
I think it makes them feel likethey sound really smart.
But of the people who areattempting restorative
conversations, number onerestorative conversations aren't
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what they think they are, sothere's problem number one.
Restorative conversationsaren't what they think they are,
so there's problem number one.
But problem number two is theydon't really have the immediate
impact that people envision.
Sometimes we need to give kidsa little bit of time just to
work it out.
Now you might be thinking, asyou're listening to me talk
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through this.
I mean, you know it sounds okay, maybe being a good enough
school counselor, but I feellike that means I'm going to be
slacking.
People are going to think thatI'm just being lazy.
I already get questioned enoughabout what I do already.
I certainly don't want to giveanybody any more ammunition to
question my role on campus, butto that I would say I think we
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have to look at this through abroader perspective and realize
that once we are okay with beinga good enough school counselor,
it is going to take such atremendous load off of our
shoulders that, almostimmediately, once we come to the
point that we feel okay with it, it's going to restore a lot of
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bandwidth.
We're going to regain a lot ofclarity in our work and
potentially regain a lot ofenergy for the things that we do
, because we're not constantlyrunning from fire to fire, to
fire, to fire to fire.
We are being more intentionalwith our work.
We're waiting and watching tosee if students can resolve
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their own concerns, and if theycan't, or if it's not a
developmentally appropriateapproach to take, then we go in
and assist students with whatthey need.
Another argument that somepeople may have is that good
enough school counseling couldlead counselors feeling
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justified in disengaging fromadvocacy, meaning, when we're
good enough, we feel like weshouldn't push anymore.
We shouldn't be pushing fornational models, we shouldn't be
pushing for a respectableschool counselor to student
ratio, which are not the numbersthat we have in place on most
campuses, and that if we're notdoing that, we're going to
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continue to be under-resourced,our needs are going to be
neglected, our programs aren'tgoing to be able to grow in the
way that they should, and so theonly way to counteract this bad
outcome is to remain in thathustle culture that we talked
about in the last episode andgrind away trying to make a
difference.
But research on perfectionisticmindsets tells us that the more
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we do that, the less effectivewe become.
That the more we do that, theless effective we become.
And third, I think somecounselors are going to take
issue with letting go.
We have a lot of folks out therethat have appointed themselves
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the lone saviors.
Have you heard me talk aboutthe lone savior complex before
me?
Talk about the loan saviorcomplex before?
These folks feel responsiblefor rescuing every student or
fixing every systemic issue, andI think these people are great
because they are on fire.
Right, there is probably no onemore invested in their work
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than these loan saviors.
But the problem is they burnthemselves out in two to three
years.
That's what the research tellsus.
So we've got to look toward amore sustainable and healthy
trajectory.
Think about it this way howmuch change and impact can you
affect in your first one to twoyears on a campus, versus the
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change in impact you can affectwhen you're on that campus eight
, nine or even 10 years?
10 years is going to have itbeat by a mile, right, but
that's the marathon, not thesprint.
And so when we come in as alone savior, we are sprinting,
we are hustling as hard as wecan toward that finish line.
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When we come in as a good enoughschool counselor, we're coming
in with a marathon mindset.
We don't have to attackeverything all at once, we don't
have to fix everything.
We can give it our best towardsthe goals we see as being most
impactful in the moment andcontinue working on.
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And while we do that, we haveto remember that we're always
prioritizing student well-being.
Being good enough doesn't mean,you know, let's just let's let
them figure it out.
I'm going to sit in my officeand watch some YouTube videos,
have a snack, live the sweetlife in here until somebody
really needs me.
That's not what that means.
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We're not going to abandon ourcore responsibilities.
We're not going to let go ofall of our advocacy efforts, but
we are going to keep arealistic pace.
We are going to remember thatthere are other people who can
be helpers on our campus inaddition to us, and I think, at
the end of the day, that's oneof the most important things we
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are part of larger teams We'vegot to be looking at our
teachers, our administrators,maybe mental health
professionals on campus and makesure that we're not carrying
the full burden ofresponsibility for all the
issues on our campuses.
Those folks can come in andhelp.
We also need to remember thatstudent outcomes are not
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completely in our control,especially when we're looking at
things like under-resourcedschools, especially when our
caseloads are egregious.
Right, we are not going to beable to do all the things, so
let's focus on small, meaningfulsuccesses.
Let's collaborate with thoseother folks we have on our
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campuses and beyond, instead offeeling that pressure like we
have to solve every issuepersonally.
As we wrap up, I want you totake away this one message that
empowering students doesn't meansolving their problems for them
.
Empowering students is givingthem the tools to solve those
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problems themselves afterthey've taken ownership of the
challenges.
We can help them buildself-advocacy, strengthen their
problem-solving skills anddevelop resilience.
That will serve them far beyondtheir time with us as their
school counselor if we can letthem toe the line just a little
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bit, if we have the ability tostep back, watch them work and
coach them through instead ofrunning to the rescue.
Hey, if you enjoy conversationslike this, just remember.
We talk about these kinds ofthings each and every week in
our School for School CounselorsMastermind.
(22:49):
We host support andconsultation chats where folks
bring case consultations to thetable, specific issues or
concerns that they have, and wetalk through them.
And a lot of those concerns arenot student-based, they're
program-based or they aresystems-based, and we're walking
through the best approaches forthat school counselor based on
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their resources, their expertiseand their personality.
So if that's something thatinterests you, you might want to
go check it out.
Schoolforschoolcounselorscom.
Slash mastermind Y'all.
It's not always easy to stepback, but remember that
sometimes less interventionleads to more growth.
(23:31):
So as you go about your workthis week, think about where can
you offer guidance withoutover-functioning, because it's
not about trying to do less forour kids, it's about helping
them do more for themselves.
Y'all.
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
(23:52):
Counselors podcast.
In the meantime, I hope youhave the best week, keep being
amazing and take care.