October 27, 2025 • 22 mins
Students refusing school isn’t new... but what’s happening now is different.
Across the country, nearly one in three students is missing ten percent or more of the school year.
And while everyone’s blaming “attendance apathy” or “bad parenting,” the truth is a lot more complicated.
In this episode, I talk about what school refusal really is- and what it’s not.
You’ll learn the four hidden drivers behind school avoidance, how to spot them, and exactly what school counselors can do (without becoming the attendance police).
We’ll also talk about the conversations no one wants to have, like what to do when it’s the parent keeping the student home, or when a student says flat-out, “I just don’t want to go.”
This isn’t another pep talk about attendance incentives.
It’s a grounded, evidence-based roadmap for helping kids come back to school- and want to stay there.
**********************************
⭐️ Want support with real-world strategies that actually work on your campus? We’re doing that every day in the School for School Counselors Mastermind. Come join us! As mentioned in the episode, use code OCTOBER 25 for a limited time.⭐️
**********************************
Where to go next, depending on what you need today...
NEW → Grab my free Secret Series for School Counselors- Six short stories about what no one’s willing to say in school counseling
Listen to more of the School for School Counselors Podcast- Real talk and honest insights for school counselors tired of pretending it’s all fine
Join the School for School Counselors Mastermind- The professional home for school counselors who love the job… and want to keep their sanity
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Imagine this.
You're a school counselor.
That's hard to imagine, isn'tit?
Uh, you're a school counselorand you've just received an
email.
It came from a teacher about astudent.
We'll call him George.
And George used to be a starpupil, but lately he's missing
more and more days of school.
(00:21):
His parents are saying that he'sjust not feeling well randomly,
but you know something else isgoing on.
This scenario might feel reallyfamiliar because it's happening
everywhere.
Nearly one in three students isnow missing 10% or more of the
school year.
(00:42):
But the question that we've beentrying to answer in schools
isn't the right one.
We've been asking, how do wemake them come to school?
When really what we should beasking is, why don't they want
to?
The truth is, when you lookdeeper, you realize that school
refusal often isn't aboutlaziness or defiance.
(01:06):
It's a signal or an alarm thatsomething underneath the surface
isn't working.
And it's up to us to figure outwhat that is.
Stick with me.
Hey school counselor, welcomeback.
Today we're tackling one of thebiggest challenges you're
probably facing on your campus.
Kids who won't come to school.
(01:27):
But instead of more attendanceletters and consequence charts,
we're gonna look a littledeeper.
So if you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, some
clarity on your work and maybe abit of rebellion, you've got to
be in the right place.
I'm Steph Johnson, and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast.
(01:48):
You've probably been on one ofthese calls with a parent when
they say something like, He justwon't get out of bed.
There's nothing I can do.
Or a teacher is messaging yousaying they're out again and no
one has called or messaged me totell me why.
You already know what's what.
It's another case of schoolrefusal.
(02:11):
And while the pandemic may haveexposed some of the cracks in
students' motivation to attendschool, what we're seeing right
now is so much bigger.
We are watching an entiregeneration of students wrestle
with anxiety, loss of structure,and shifting perceptions of not
(02:32):
only safety, but of industry.
According to Maynard and Team2023, chronic absenteeism has
doubled since 2019, with nearlyone-third of students missing
10% or more of the year.
But research also shows thatschool refusal is actually most
(02:57):
often a behavioral manifestationof anxiety, fear, or safety
perceptions and isn'toppositional at all.
So instead of asking, how do wemake kids attend school?
We should be asking, why don'tthey feel like they can?
(03:17):
And here's where so many schoolsare getting it wrong.
We have historically treatedattendance like a compliance
issue when it's actually asafety signal.
When students stop showing up,they're not being defiant per
se, they're communicatingdanger.
And our job as school counselorsisn't to enforce attendance,
(03:40):
it's to decode it.
And if we're going to decode it,we need a good framework.
Lucky for us, Kearney andSilverman 1999 actually
identified four main driversbehind school avoidance.
And that model has beenconfirmed over and over again in
(04:03):
decades of research since it waspublished.
The four main drivers of schoolavoidance are avoiding
uncomfortable emotions likeanxiety, dread, or shame,
escaping evaluation or socialjudgment, seeking connection or
attention, and accessing rewardsoutside of school.
(04:25):
Most cases of chronicabsenteeism are a blend.
But even in the blends, there'susually one factor that's
driving the bus.
And once you know which oneyou're dealing with, the plan
changes entirely.
Now, what I'm about to sharenext isn't theory, it's actually
(04:47):
what's working in schools rightnow.
These are real strategies pulledfrom not only the research, but
from the case consultationsinside our School for School
Counselors mastermind, whereschool counselors test ideas and
share what's actually holding upin the real world.
So as you listen, think aboutwhich part of this hits closest
(05:10):
to home for you, because that'swhere you're going to be able to
jump in with a solutiontomorrow.
Let's start with the most commonroadblock first: students
avoiding feelings like anxiety,dread, or shame.
Now we're often told that weneed to be extra gentle with
these students, that we shouldremove triggers, maybe think
(05:33):
about shortening the day orlightening the workload somehow.
But every time we do, weaccidentally reinforce the fear.
Avoidance feeds anxiety.
And our job isn't to protectkids from being uncomfortable.
Our job is to help master thosefeelings.
(05:56):
So what do we do?
We build bravery.
And we can do it in severalways.
We can use cognitive behavioralmicrotechniques, like name and
reframe.
What's the thought that'skeeping you from coming to
school?
And what's a more true thoughtthat we could try?
(06:17):
We could give students a worrywindow, two minutes of air time
for all the anxieties, then weshift the focus on how to be
successful at school.
Those are going to help studentsbuild bravery and a sense of
competence instead of runningaway.
We could also use questions fromsolution focused brief therapy.
(06:41):
And if you're a podcast listenerfrom way back, you'll remember
episode 63.
It was called What SchoolCounselors May Not Realize About
Solution Focused Counseling.
It was a really good primer onhow to get started in
solution-focused techniques.
But in this approach, we wouldask kids things like tell me
(07:01):
about a day when you did want tocome to school.
What was different?
Or you're a three out of 10 forwanting to be at school today?
How can we bump it up to a four?
Now, to be clear,solution-focused counseling
isn't as simple as just askingthese isolated questions, but
they will get you started off onthe right foot.
(07:23):
Collaborative problem solvingdeveloped by Ross Green.
You may recognize his name fromthings like Lost at School or
The Explosive Child.
And I talked about his approachin episode 88.
It was called Empathy and ActionUsing Collaborative Problem
Solving in School Counseling.
We would say something like, I'mnoticing mornings are really
(07:45):
hard for you, but the schoolstill needs you here.
Let's find something that worksfor both of us.
In any of these approaches,we're not teaching comfort.
We're teaching courage.
We're teaching kids that theycan overcome those barriers and
that they are capable.
(08:05):
And at the end of the day,that's going to go a whole lot
further than minimizingexpectations.
Now, our second group ofstudents are the students who
aren't afraid of school.
They're just afraid of beingseen in it.
They fear failure.
They fear peer scrutiny.
They don't want to be seen asanything less than, right?
(08:28):
So when we pull them from oralpresentations or we give them
some similar accommodation, itmight feel like we're being
kind, but really what we'redoing is keeping them trapped.
They don't need a rescueoperation.
They need proof that they cansucceed.
So let's engineer some earlywins for these folks.
(08:49):
Let's pre-practice presentationsor group work in our offices.
Let's practice peer interactionsso they know how to handle
whatever it is they're worriedabout coming around.
Let's work to normalizeimperfection, that it's not
always about winning the race ordoing things perfectly or having
a certain persona around campus.
(09:11):
Gonzalez and Team 2018 foundthat interventions targeting
perceived competence directlyimproved not only attendance,
but self-efficacy.
Confidence is the antidote toavoidance.
Now, in our third group ofstudents, and we usually see
this in the younger set,students are refusing school not
(09:35):
to rebel, but to try to staysafe.
They're anxious, they're cravingconnection.
And while we like to defer toparents and assume that they
know best, that's not alwaystrue.
Because when a parent's anxietyis driving these decisions, it's
often serving to deepen thechild's fear.
(10:00):
So we've got to shift securityto the school.
We need to provide warm personalgreetings, even if these
students are late.
We need to welcome them by name,and we need to remind them how
excited we are that they gotthere, regardless of how late
they show up.
We can give them some meaningfulroles on campus.
(10:23):
Perhaps they're a greeter, ahelper.
Maybe they're the fish feedingcaptain.
Maybe they serve as a peermentor to someone else on
campus.
And then we need to coachparents to hold a calm and
consistent line at home.
We need to teach them to bealmost boring in their responses
(10:46):
to their child's cries of notwanting to go to school.
I'm sorry you don't want to go,but you're safe there.
I'll see you after school.
And that's it.
Now that sounds easy on thesurface, but I can tell you
there have been so many parentswho have experienced extreme
difficulty with holding thatline, right?
(11:08):
Because they had other issues atplay too that were preventing
them from being somatter-of-fact.
So we've got to coach them.
And sometimes we have toencourage them more than we have
to encourage their children.
We can also help set someboundaries.
We can create attendancecontracts with parents.
We can define criteria forstaying home: fevers, vomiting,
(11:33):
things like that.
Other than that, you need to beat school.
And we can provide immediatecheck-ins when students are
absent.
Research shows that thatimmediate person-to-person
contact goes a long way inmitigating attendance concerns.
Your power as a school counselorhere is coordination.
(11:56):
You can keep the tonecompassionate but firm and
encourage the parents toward thebest outcome.
And then our fourth group ofstudents are the ones who find
home more rewarding than school.
We tell ourselves that thesekids just need more motivation,
right?
(12:16):
But that is not the issue.
When staying home feels betterto a child, the environment
itself is reinforcing theavoidance.
That makes things precarious forus.
We have to work with parents tokeep students' days neutral.
No gaming, no tablets, no fun,no extra freedom.
(12:40):
That in itself is a huge battle,right?
If you've been in it, you knowwhat I mean.
But we have to consistentlycommunicate this with parents,
even when it feels like we'reshouting into the void.
We also need to make attendancematter to students at school,
where they get choices withintheir school day.
(13:03):
They see the relevance of whatthey're learning or the
relevance of the content totheir goals, and they receive
recognition for being there.
For older students, we can usethings like motivational
interviewing, where we talkabout what do you want five
years from now?
And how could showing up toschool help you get there?
And then we could go from thereinto what's one small step that
(13:27):
you could try this week to getyou going in the right
direction.
With younger students, we haveto have a keen eye towards
structure with fun.
So predictable routines withsmall rewards, social skills
groups with daily adultconnection, visual schedules
(13:49):
with privileges around campus.
The goal is not punishing thekid for not having been at
school consistently, it's tomake school the place where
their life feels like it getsbigger.
And when they feel like theirlife is getting bigger, they're
going to want to be there.
Now, having it, I'm going to bereal with you and I'm going to
(14:12):
pause for a minute because Ithink I know what you might be
thinking right now.
You're thinking, okay, Steph,that all makes sense for kids
who are anxious or families thatare struggling.
But what about the ones who justdon't stinkin' care?
Those are the students whoseparents just say, I don't know
what you want me to do about itwhen you call their house.
(14:35):
Or we can't make him go.
Or the students that just shrugwhen you say, Why weren't you
here yesterday?
We missed you.
These are the students andfamilies who've decided that
school just isn't worth it.
And it's very tempting tobelieve that these students or
families just don't valueeducation.
(14:56):
But we need to reframe this alittle bit because apathy is
rarely about values.
Apathy is usually about power.
When students or parents say, Idon't care, what they often mean
is, I don't feel like itmatters.
(15:17):
They've tried, they failed, orthey've been dismissed so many
times that disengagement becomesa form of self-protection.
So what do we do when studentsor parents have completely
disengaged?
We have to rebuild agency, notobedience.
(15:39):
We reconnect before we redirect,starting with curiosity instead
of demands.
What's your morning like beforeschool?
When was the last time youactually enjoyed coming to
school?
How can you tie their attendanceto the things they care about?
Their friends, their jobs, theirsports, their independence, so
(16:03):
that they understand that everyday they attend is building the
skills that are gonna get themwhere they want to go.
We gotta give them a sense ofpower with small choices.
Do you want to come in my officefor five minutes or do you want
to head straight to class?
Do you want to go to lunch inthe lunchroom or do you want to
(16:24):
come eat in a quiet place?
And then we stay calm,predictable, steady, even when
they test our patients, evenwhen we feel like we do not
understand where they are comingfrom.
And we have to be prepared towork the long game.
When families appear disengaged,we got to look for what's
(16:44):
underneath.
Is it transportation?
Is it unstable housing?
Is it mental health concerns?
Is it work conflicts?
Apathy is often the armor thatis hiding exhaustion.
So if it looks like they don'tcare, don't just immediately
write them off.
Start smaller with curiosity,relevance, power, respect, and
(17:08):
then hold steady in the longgame.
Care enough for both of youuntil the student can meet you
halfway.
Saying I don't care is not awall.
Y'all, that's a wound.
And we are in the business ofhealing, we should not be in the
business of judging.
(17:31):
And just to add an extra layeronto this, sometimes we have
something called parentalaccommodation at play.
And when you're feeling just ahint of, I don't want to go to
school, and your parentimmediately rushes in and says,
Oh, well, that's okay.
You don't have to.
That's parental accommodation.
(17:52):
That strengthens avoidance.
The research says that parentalaccommodation worsens anxiety.
And that reducing thataccommodation improves both
anxiety and attendance.
So we may have to coach theparents as we're going through
this process.
We may have to tell them thingslike, hey, I know mornings are
(18:13):
tough at your house.
But the fastest way out of thisfight is making sure they come
to school regularly.
Validate the parents' emotions,their potential anxieties, but
redirect their action andrehearse those conversations
with the parent.
Just like you would rehearse itwith the students, rehearse it
(18:34):
with the parent.
You don't need to be fightingthem to get their students in
school.
You need to teach them to fighttheir own fear effectively.
Now, is that an official stanceof the school counselor's role
on campus?
Not exactly, but we're playingthe real world game here, right?
Not the mandated list ofappropriate and inappropriate
(18:56):
responsibilities.
What's important to me is bestoutcomes for students.
If that means I spend four orfive phone calls with a parent
coaching them through whathappens next, I guess that's
what that means.
All right, so then let's zoomout a little bit.
You should not have to be theattendance police, right?
(19:17):
But you are the patterninterpreter.
You're the connector between allof these people and all of their
feelings.
And you may not be able to fixevery case, but you will change
trajectories.
And you can do that one plan,one parent, and one brave
student at a time.
(19:38):
Now, if this episode has youmotivated and you're thinking,
man, I could use a system forthis, you're right.
And that's what we build insidethe School for School Counselors
Mastermind.
Every week we take challengesjust like this one and we
collaborate on them to determinebest outcomes.
And we also often createconcrete playbooks that you can
(20:03):
use for step-by-stepimplementation of what the
research and real life actuallysay works.
You'll get coaching, community,and the accountability that
makes your professional growthsustainable without making you
feel overwhelmed.
(20:24):
Now, if you've been consideringjoining us, I'm going to give
you a little bonus as a podcastlistener because I know this
time of year is so tough.
And I want you to feelsupported.
So when you go to sign up forthe Mastermind at
schoolforschoolcounselors.comslash mastermind, enter the code
October25.
(20:46):
All right.
All one word, all caps, October25.
And I'm going to have a specialsurprise for you to let you know
that you've made the rightdecision.
And I would love to work withyou personally in a Zoom room.
That would be a dream come truefor me.
And I hope you feel the sameway.
So head over toschoolforschoolcounselors.com
(21:07):
slash mastermind.
Enter October 25 and see whatI've got waiting for you.
Hey, thanks for being here andfor showing up for your
students, even when they won'tshow up for themselves.
Thank you for what you do.
Thank you for continuing to showup each and every day for your
students.
And thank you for fighting fortheir futures.
(21:30):
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
Until then, take care.
Hey, before you go, I want totell you something.
Every week when I sit down torecord this podcast, it's
usually very late on a Sundaynight, right before the episode
goes out on Monday morning.
(21:51):
The house is quiet.
I'm recording in my closet,actually, and I'm thinking about
the school counselor out therewho's exhausted but still trying
to do the right thing.
When you leave a review or youhit follow on this podcast, it
tells me that my late nightsmatter.
It tells me that this work isreaching you.
(22:14):
So if this episode helped yousee your students or yourself a
little differently, would youplease take a second to tap
follow or leave a quick review?
That helps more schoolcounselors find the show.
And it keeps me here at thismicrophone fighting for the kind
of school counseling thatactually makes a difference and
(22:34):
doing what I can to make yourjob feel a little less
impossible.
Have a great week and thanks inadvance for your follow and your
review.
You're the best.
Imagine this.
You're a school counselor.
That's hard to imagine, isn'tit?
Uh, you're a school counselorand you've just received an
email.
It came from a teacher about astudent.
We'll call him George.
And George used to be a starpupil, but lately he's missing
more and more days of school.
(00:21):
His parents are saying that he'sjust not feeling well randomly,
but you know something else isgoing on.
This scenario might feel reallyfamiliar because it's happening
everywhere.
Nearly one in three students isnow missing 10% or more of the
school year.
(00:42):
But the question that we've beentrying to answer in schools
isn't the right one.
We've been asking, how do wemake them come to school?
When really what we should beasking is, why don't they want
to?
The truth is, when you lookdeeper, you realize that school
refusal often isn't aboutlaziness or defiance.
(01:06):
It's a signal or an alarm thatsomething underneath the surface
isn't working.
And it's up to us to figure outwhat that is.
Stick with me.
Hey school counselor, welcomeback.
Today we're tackling one of thebiggest challenges you're
probably facing on your campus.
Kids who won't come to school.
(01:27):
But instead of more attendanceletters and consequence charts,
we're gonna look a littledeeper.
So if you're ready for somestraight talk, my friend, some
clarity on your work and maybe abit of rebellion, you've got to
be in the right place.
I'm Steph Johnson, and this isthe School for School Counselors
podcast.
(01:48):
You've probably been on one ofthese calls with a parent when
they say something like, He justwon't get out of bed.
There's nothing I can do.
Or a teacher is messaging yousaying they're out again and no
one has called or messaged me totell me why.
You already know what's what.
It's another case of schoolrefusal.
(02:11):
And while the pandemic may haveexposed some of the cracks in
students' motivation to attendschool, what we're seeing right
now is so much bigger.
We are watching an entiregeneration of students wrestle
with anxiety, loss of structure,and shifting perceptions of not
(02:32):
only safety, but of industry.
According to Maynard and Team2023, chronic absenteeism has
doubled since 2019, with nearlyone-third of students missing
10% or more of the year.
But research also shows thatschool refusal is actually most
(02:57):
often a behavioral manifestationof anxiety, fear, or safety
perceptions and isn'toppositional at all.
So instead of asking, how do wemake kids attend school?
We should be asking, why don'tthey feel like they can?
(03:17):
And here's where so many schoolsare getting it wrong.
We have historically treatedattendance like a compliance
issue when it's actually asafety signal.
When students stop showing up,they're not being defiant per
se, they're communicatingdanger.
And our job as school counselorsisn't to enforce attendance,
(03:40):
it's to decode it.
And if we're going to decode it,we need a good framework.
Lucky for us, Kearney andSilverman 1999 actually
identified four main driversbehind school avoidance.
And that model has beenconfirmed over and over again in
(04:03):
decades of research since it waspublished.
The four main drivers of schoolavoidance are avoiding
uncomfortable emotions likeanxiety, dread, or shame,
escaping evaluation or socialjudgment, seeking connection or
attention, and accessing rewardsoutside of school.
(04:25):
Most cases of chronicabsenteeism are a blend.
But even in the blends, there'susually one factor that's
driving the bus.
And once you know which oneyou're dealing with, the plan
changes entirely.
Now, what I'm about to sharenext isn't theory, it's actually
(04:47):
what's working in schools rightnow.
These are real strategies pulledfrom not only the research, but
from the case consultationsinside our School for School
Counselors mastermind, whereschool counselors test ideas and
share what's actually holding upin the real world.
So as you listen, think aboutwhich part of this hits closest
(05:10):
to home for you, because that'swhere you're going to be able to
jump in with a solutiontomorrow.
Let's start with the most commonroadblock first: students
avoiding feelings like anxiety,dread, or shame.
Now we're often told that weneed to be extra gentle with
these students, that we shouldremove triggers, maybe think
(05:33):
about shortening the day orlightening the workload somehow.
But every time we do, weaccidentally reinforce the fear.
Avoidance feeds anxiety.
And our job isn't to protectkids from being uncomfortable.
Our job is to help master thosefeelings.
(05:56):
So what do we do?
We build bravery.
And we can do it in severalways.
We can use cognitive behavioralmicrotechniques, like name and
reframe.
What's the thought that'skeeping you from coming to
school?
And what's a more true thoughtthat we could try?
(06:17):
We could give students a worrywindow, two minutes of air time
for all the anxieties, then weshift the focus on how to be
successful at school.
Those are going to help studentsbuild bravery and a sense of
competence instead of runningaway.
We could also use questions fromsolution focused brief therapy.
(06:41):
And if you're a podcast listenerfrom way back, you'll remember
episode 63.
It was called What SchoolCounselors May Not Realize About
Solution Focused Counseling.
It was a really good primer onhow to get started in
solution-focused techniques.
But in this approach, we wouldask kids things like tell me
(07:01):
about a day when you did want tocome to school.
What was different?
Or you're a three out of 10 forwanting to be at school today?
How can we bump it up to a four?
Now, to be clear,solution-focused counseling
isn't as simple as just askingthese isolated questions, but
they will get you started off onthe right foot.
(07:23):
Collaborative problem solvingdeveloped by Ross Green.
You may recognize his name fromthings like Lost at School or
The Explosive Child.
And I talked about his approachin episode 88.
It was called Empathy and ActionUsing Collaborative Problem
Solving in School Counseling.
We would say something like, I'mnoticing mornings are really
(07:45):
hard for you, but the schoolstill needs you here.
Let's find something that worksfor both of us.
In any of these approaches,we're not teaching comfort.
We're teaching courage.
We're teaching kids that theycan overcome those barriers and
that they are capable.
(08:05):
And at the end of the day,that's going to go a whole lot
further than minimizingexpectations.
Now, our second group ofstudents are the students who
aren't afraid of school.
They're just afraid of beingseen in it.
They fear failure.
They fear peer scrutiny.
They don't want to be seen asanything less than, right?
(08:28):
So when we pull them from oralpresentations or we give them
some similar accommodation, itmight feel like we're being
kind, but really what we'redoing is keeping them trapped.
They don't need a rescueoperation.
They need proof that they cansucceed.
So let's engineer some earlywins for these folks.
(08:49):
Let's pre-practice presentationsor group work in our offices.
Let's practice peer interactionsso they know how to handle
whatever it is they're worriedabout coming around.
Let's work to normalizeimperfection, that it's not
always about winning the race ordoing things perfectly or having
a certain persona around campus.
(09:11):
Gonzalez and Team 2018 foundthat interventions targeting
perceived competence directlyimproved not only attendance,
but self-efficacy.
Confidence is the antidote toavoidance.
Now, in our third group ofstudents, and we usually see
this in the younger set,students are refusing school not
(09:35):
to rebel, but to try to staysafe.
They're anxious, they're cravingconnection.
And while we like to defer toparents and assume that they
know best, that's not alwaystrue.
Because when a parent's anxietyis driving these decisions, it's
often serving to deepen thechild's fear.
(10:00):
So we've got to shift securityto the school.
We need to provide warm personalgreetings, even if these
students are late.
We need to welcome them by name,and we need to remind them how
excited we are that they gotthere, regardless of how late
they show up.
We can give them some meaningfulroles on campus.
(10:23):
Perhaps they're a greeter, ahelper.
Maybe they're the fish feedingcaptain.
Maybe they serve as a peermentor to someone else on
campus.
And then we need to coachparents to hold a calm and
consistent line at home.
We need to teach them to bealmost boring in their responses
(10:46):
to their child's cries of notwanting to go to school.
I'm sorry you don't want to go,but you're safe there.
I'll see you after school.
And that's it.
Now that sounds easy on thesurface, but I can tell you
there have been so many parentswho have experienced extreme
difficulty with holding thatline, right?
(11:08):
Because they had other issues atplay too that were preventing
them from being somatter-of-fact.
So we've got to coach them.
And sometimes we have toencourage them more than we have
to encourage their children.
We can also help set someboundaries.
We can create attendancecontracts with parents.
We can define criteria forstaying home: fevers, vomiting,
(11:33):
things like that.
Other than that, you need to beat school.
And we can provide immediatecheck-ins when students are
absent.
Research shows that thatimmediate person-to-person
contact goes a long way inmitigating attendance concerns.
Your power as a school counselorhere is coordination.
(11:56):
You can keep the tonecompassionate but firm and
encourage the parents toward thebest outcome.
And then our fourth group ofstudents are the ones who find
home more rewarding than school.
We tell ourselves that thesekids just need more motivation,
right?
(12:16):
But that is not the issue.
When staying home feels betterto a child, the environment
itself is reinforcing theavoidance.
That makes things precarious forus.
We have to work with parents tokeep students' days neutral.
No gaming, no tablets, no fun,no extra freedom.
(12:40):
That in itself is a huge battle,right?
If you've been in it, you knowwhat I mean.
But we have to consistentlycommunicate this with parents,
even when it feels like we'reshouting into the void.
We also need to make attendancematter to students at school,
where they get choices withintheir school day.
(13:03):
They see the relevance of whatthey're learning or the
relevance of the content totheir goals, and they receive
recognition for being there.
For older students, we can usethings like motivational
interviewing, where we talkabout what do you want five
years from now?
And how could showing up toschool help you get there?
And then we could go from thereinto what's one small step that
(13:27):
you could try this week to getyou going in the right
direction.
With younger students, we haveto have a keen eye towards
structure with fun.
So predictable routines withsmall rewards, social skills
groups with daily adultconnection, visual schedules
(13:49):
with privileges around campus.
The goal is not punishing thekid for not having been at
school consistently, it's tomake school the place where
their life feels like it getsbigger.
And when they feel like theirlife is getting bigger, they're
going to want to be there.
Now, having it, I'm going to bereal with you and I'm going to
(14:12):
pause for a minute because Ithink I know what you might be
thinking right now.
You're thinking, okay, Steph,that all makes sense for kids
who are anxious or families thatare struggling.
But what about the ones who justdon't stinkin' care?
Those are the students whoseparents just say, I don't know
what you want me to do about itwhen you call their house.
(14:35):
Or we can't make him go.
Or the students that just shrugwhen you say, Why weren't you
here yesterday?
We missed you.
These are the students andfamilies who've decided that
school just isn't worth it.
And it's very tempting tobelieve that these students or
families just don't valueeducation.
(14:56):
But we need to reframe this alittle bit because apathy is
rarely about values.
Apathy is usually about power.
When students or parents say, Idon't care, what they often mean
is, I don't feel like itmatters.
(15:17):
They've tried, they failed, orthey've been dismissed so many
times that disengagement becomesa form of self-protection.
So what do we do when studentsor parents have completely
disengaged?
We have to rebuild agency, notobedience.
(15:39):
We reconnect before we redirect,starting with curiosity instead
of demands.
What's your morning like beforeschool?
When was the last time youactually enjoyed coming to
school?
How can you tie their attendanceto the things they care about?
Their friends, their jobs, theirsports, their independence, so
(16:03):
that they understand that everyday they attend is building the
skills that are gonna get themwhere they want to go.
We gotta give them a sense ofpower with small choices.
Do you want to come in my officefor five minutes or do you want
to head straight to class?
Do you want to go to lunch inthe lunchroom or do you want to
(16:24):
come eat in a quiet place?
And then we stay calm,predictable, steady, even when
they test our patients, evenwhen we feel like we do not
understand where they are comingfrom.
And we have to be prepared towork the long game.
When families appear disengaged,we got to look for what's
(16:44):
underneath.
Is it transportation?
Is it unstable housing?
Is it mental health concerns?
Is it work conflicts?
Apathy is often the armor thatis hiding exhaustion.
So if it looks like they don'tcare, don't just immediately
write them off.
Start smaller with curiosity,relevance, power, respect, and
(17:08):
then hold steady in the longgame.
Care enough for both of youuntil the student can meet you
halfway.
Saying I don't care is not awall.
Y'all, that's a wound.
And we are in the business ofhealing, we should not be in the
business of judging.
(17:31):
And just to add an extra layeronto this, sometimes we have
something called parentalaccommodation at play.
And when you're feeling just ahint of, I don't want to go to
school, and your parentimmediately rushes in and says,
Oh, well, that's okay.
You don't have to.
That's parental accommodation.
(17:52):
That strengthens avoidance.
The research says that parentalaccommodation worsens anxiety.
And that reducing thataccommodation improves both
anxiety and attendance.
So we may have to coach theparents as we're going through
this process.
We may have to tell them thingslike, hey, I know mornings are
(18:13):
tough at your house.
But the fastest way out of thisfight is making sure they come
to school regularly.
Validate the parents' emotions,their potential anxieties, but
redirect their action andrehearse those conversations
with the parent.
Just like you would rehearse itwith the students, rehearse it
(18:34):
with the parent.
You don't need to be fightingthem to get their students in
school.
You need to teach them to fighttheir own fear effectively.
Now, is that an official stanceof the school counselor's role
on campus?
Not exactly, but we're playingthe real world game here, right?
Not the mandated list ofappropriate and inappropriate
(18:56):
responsibilities.
What's important to me is bestoutcomes for students.
If that means I spend four orfive phone calls with a parent
coaching them through whathappens next, I guess that's
what that means.
All right, so then let's zoomout a little bit.
You should not have to be theattendance police, right?
(19:17):
But you are the patterninterpreter.
You're the connector between allof these people and all of their
feelings.
And you may not be able to fixevery case, but you will change
trajectories.
And you can do that one plan,one parent, and one brave
student at a time.
(19:38):
Now, if this episode has youmotivated and you're thinking,
man, I could use a system forthis, you're right.
And that's what we build insidethe School for School Counselors
Mastermind.
Every week we take challengesjust like this one and we
collaborate on them to determinebest outcomes.
And we also often createconcrete playbooks that you can
(20:03):
use for step-by-stepimplementation of what the
research and real life actuallysay works.
You'll get coaching, community,and the accountability that
makes your professional growthsustainable without making you
feel overwhelmed.
(20:24):
Now, if you've been consideringjoining us, I'm going to give
you a little bonus as a podcastlistener because I know this
time of year is so tough.
And I want you to feelsupported.
So when you go to sign up forthe Mastermind at
schoolforschoolcounselors.comslash mastermind, enter the code
October25.
(20:46):
All right.
All one word, all caps, October25.
And I'm going to have a specialsurprise for you to let you know
that you've made the rightdecision.
And I would love to work withyou personally in a Zoom room.
That would be a dream come truefor me.
And I hope you feel the sameway.
So head over toschoolforschoolcounselors.com
(21:07):
slash mastermind.
Enter October 25 and see whatI've got waiting for you.
Hey, thanks for being here andfor showing up for your
students, even when they won'tshow up for themselves.
Thank you for what you do.
Thank you for continuing to showup each and every day for your
students.
And thank you for fighting fortheir futures.
(21:30):
I'll be back soon with anotherepisode of the School for School
Counselors podcast.
Until then, take care.
Hey, before you go, I want totell you something.
Every week when I sit down torecord this podcast, it's
usually very late on a Sundaynight, right before the episode
goes out on Monday morning.
(21:51):
The house is quiet.
I'm recording in my closet,actually, and I'm thinking about
the school counselor out therewho's exhausted but still trying
to do the right thing.
When you leave a review or youhit follow on this podcast, it
tells me that my late nightsmatter.
It tells me that this work isreaching you.
(22:14):
So if this episode helped yousee your students or yourself a
little differently, would youplease take a second to tap
follow or leave a quick review?
That helps more schoolcounselors find the show.
And it keeps me here at thismicrophone fighting for the kind
of school counseling thatactually makes a difference and
(22:34):
doing what I can to make yourjob feel a little less
impossible.
Have a great week and thanks inadvance for your follow and your
review.
You're the best.
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