February 3, 2025 • 26 mins
*Join the School for School Counselors Mastermind today to become the school counselor you were meant to be.*
Happy National School Counseling Week! Or maybe not?
There’s a growing divide in how school counselors feel about this week—some dive in with enthusiasm, while others don't want to be bothered. And honestly, after what I’ve been seeing lately, I get it.
In this episode, I talk through the uncomfortable truths about school counseling advocacy: what’s missing, why it matters, and how we’ve been misled about who’s actually fighting for us. (Spoiler: If you think your national organization has your back, you might want to think again.)
I also break down concerning new legislation across the country, exposing the lack of organized advocacy in our profession, and sharing why our current efforts just aren’t cutting it. But here’s the thing—we’re not powerless. There’s a better way to advocate, and it starts with YOU.
If you’re tired of the same old conferences and feel-good slogans while school counseling falls apart behind the scenes, this episode is for you.
00:00 Mixed Reactions to National School Counseling Week
01:23 Facebook Group Insights
02:49 Legislative Concerns and ASCA's Role
04:30 Critique of ASCA and Advocacy Issues
14:30 State Organizations and Legislative Challenges
21:46 Call to Action and Positive Notes
22:32 Listener Submissions: Why We Love School Counseling
**********************************
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, hey there, school counselor, happy National
School Counseling Week.
This episode is going to golive on the first day of
National School Counseling Weekand I am so excited to be here
celebrating it with you, even ifyou're not that excited about
it yourself.
We've been doing some polls andquestions in our Facebook group
(00:23):
and in other places, just kindof getting a vibe check on the
whole National School CounselorWeek thing.
Where do people stand, what arethey doing?
And it seems to be about a60-40 split where we've got 40%
of folks kind of diving in to dosomething for National School
(00:43):
Counseling Week and feel superexcited about it and super
motivated, and then about 60% ofthe people that we've talked to
saying that either it's justanother week or I really don't
want to celebrate NationalSchool Counseling Week.
You know I talked in episode133, which is two episodes back
(01:05):
from this one it was called ARealistic Approach to National
School Counseling Week about alot of the big feelings we have
about this week, and so I don'twant to rehash that information.
You can go back and listen toit if you want to hear that.
But I do want to talk aboutsomething that sort of blew up
(01:28):
in our Facebook group this weekand I would also love to share
with you some insights from yourfriends and colleagues about
why they love their work.
So if we haven't met, I'm StephJohnson.
I'm a full-time schoolcounselor, just like you, on a
mission to make schoolcounseling feel more sustainable
(01:49):
and more enjoyable.
I want you to feel competentand confident every day you walk
through the front doors of yourschool, and tonight I'm
recording this episode.
It's the Sunday night beforethe Monday that it's going to go
live, so talk about living onthe edge.
(02:09):
I'm recording in the eveningbecause the flu has hit our
house.
I have a kiddo down with theflu.
I have one down with whatappears to be some sort of
mystery virus.
At this point We'll see wherethat one heads.
But it's just a season, isn'tit, of sickness and of snow and
(02:30):
of lots of things going on.
For so many of you, it's kindof a tough time of the year.
So if you're feeling likeyou're struggling, you are not
alone, I promise you.
Our plates are just so full.
Our plates are just so full,which kind of brings me back to
the Facebook group Brew Ha Ha.
Now, if you didn't catch it,here's what happened.
(02:52):
I had been scrolling thesocials getting my own vibe
check on the things going on inschool counseling world, and I
picked up a lot of informationabout a lot of concerning
legislation in a lot ofdifferent states pertaining to
school counselors.
And so as I read these andlearned about them, of course I
(03:15):
went and verified the sourcefirst of all, because sometimes,
you know, things can getexaggerated on social media,
right, they can get inflated.
So I wanted to make sure that Iunderstood what was really
going on, and once I did that, Ikind of just made a little list
of all of the things I wasreading about.
And the more that I readthrough all of these proposed
(03:38):
bits of legislation, the moreconcerned I got.
And then in one post in anotherFacebook group, a commenter
commented this, and I don't knowwhy it hit me the way it did in
that moment.
I had seen this comment manytimes before but for some reason
, in that split second ofreading this comment, I thought
(04:02):
man, we got to talk about this.
And the comment was does ASCAknow about this?
It lit a fire in my soul y'all,and I could not help myself.
I had to answer that post andthen write a post of my own in
our School for School CounselorsFacebook group and I'll give
(04:25):
you just a little piece of it,just so that you know where I
was coming from.
Asca is not your advocate.
They will not come to your aid.
They do not provide support toyour state organizations out
there trying to do the dirtywork of changing hearts and
minds and legislatures, rightnow on a shoestring.
But they have no problemletting you believe they will.
(04:49):
With our memberships, we aresupporting an educational
endeavor, nothing more.
And by allowing people tobelieve that they will step in
and advocate, they have sealedthe deal of the decline of
school counseling across thecountry.
That parts my opinion and I'msticking to it, man.
(05:13):
I mean, I will tell you, I havebeen thinking this way for
years and I have alluded to ithere and there in the past.
And I have alluded to it hereand there in the past, but it is
really on my heart to startgetting more vocal about this,
to really start talking aboutthis, because I do believe that
(05:35):
lack of organized advocacy inour industry right now is on the
verge of promoting our collapse.
And I'm not saying that becauseI'm trying to sensationalize it
.
I'm not saying that because I'mjust trying to get everybody
all in a dither Not my goal atall.
But if you look around, you'regoing to start seeing what I see
(05:59):
.
If we start looking at thebigger picture, we're going to
see these little threads thatwe've been watching unwind year
after year are now creating somegiant holes in the fabric of
school counseling.
I went on to say this this isnot an attempt to badmouth the
(06:22):
organization, it's just settingthe record straight.
So many people aren't aware ofthe realities of our national
organization Conferences,journals, position statements, a
model of unfunded expectationsparked behind a paywall Y'all.
(06:44):
Do you realize that in order toget a copy of the ASCA national
model, you have to go onlineand buy it, and it's almost $50.
How do we convince ouradministrators what our jobs are
supposed to be if they have topay $50 to even find out what it
is?
This is crazy to me, absolutelycrazy.
(07:06):
And then, to wrap it up, I saidthere are no pics of ASCA
personnel testifying beforestate legislatures or meeting
with school board leaders.
There's not even any socialmedia proof of trying to sway
public opinion, of trying tosway public opinion.
(07:32):
We've been under heavy firepost-2020 and nary a public peep
about that from their corner.
If some of these legislativepieces pass soon, such as
requiring school counselors tohave a psychological evaluation
to work with the kid, you knowhow it happened.
The lobby is weak, it'sneglected and it's showing.
I am 100% sure that I'm goingto get a lot of flack over that.
(07:59):
I have no doubt in my mind andone of the ways I know that is
as soon as I published that postin our Facebook group, we
started getting a flurry of joinrequests from people who are
very ASCA affiliated.
They all of a sudden wereinterested in what we were doing
(08:21):
in our little corner of theinternet, presumably because
they either wanted to see what Iwas saying about ASCA or they
were coming to defend themselves.
I'm not exactly sure.
We have not admitted them intoour group yet.
We put a pause on that justbecause we don't want the drama.
We take a lot of pride inhaving the most drama-free
(08:44):
school counseling group on theplanet and we intend to keep it
that way.
That doesn't mean that I'mclosing off conversation with
these folks.
Once everybody's settled down alittle bit and we're ready to
have some constructiveconversation, we'll be glad to
invite them in.
In the meantime, if you knowany of them or maybe you were
(09:04):
one of the people that wasletting them know about all this
stuff, because I do know we hada few members that were doing
that, and that's fine have them.
Email me, steph, atschoolforschoolcounselorscom.
I welcome the dialogue.
I want to know more about thisbecause I want to be
well-educated in my opinions.
Right now I'm reporting on whatI see and I'm very aware that
(09:26):
there are things that I haveabsolutely no idea about, and if
someone wants to come clear theair with regard to those, I am
all ears.
But all that to say, these kindsof situations are probably why
you're feeling so frustrated andambivalent about National
School Counseling Week, becauseit is a mess.
(09:50):
It is an absolute mess.
The truth is we have nolarge-scale advocacy in place.
We have a lot of conferences,we have a lot of awards, we have
a lot of distinctions thateverybody likes to pat each
other on the back for and nottaking anything away from those
folks, for people that haveachieved RAMP or that are a
(10:13):
school counselor of the year.
I mean that's amazing, but arewe focusing in the right
direction for our journey atthis time?
Sure, school counselor of theYear and RAMP programs might
help promote awareness of schoolcounseling, but there's so much
more that needs to be done.
(10:35):
This week, asca posted aposition statement on some of
the new president's remarks, andthat is all we've seen from
them.
Advocacy-wise.
National School Counseling Weekis coming up.
In my opinion, just knowingwhat I know about promotion,
about reaching people on thesocials, they should have
(10:56):
already started a warm-upcampaign for this.
I haven't seen one, and again,I'm not here to criticize only
them.
In my post, I said a lot ofstate organizations are working
their guts out.
I do think that is true.
However, I will be honest, I'mnot seeing a lot of evidence of
that either, and so if we'retrying to change the hearts and
(11:18):
minds of people who make thesedecisions, who are in the
legislature or who have the earsof those that are, we need to
be getting more information outin a more efficient manner, in a
more targeted manner and in amore intentional manner.
(11:38):
I have nothing against them.
They have built a brilliantecosystem of trainings,
conferences, all kinds ofcredentials, certificates, you
name it.
But, guys, they've made it veryclear they do not intend to
(12:00):
build an advocacy organization.
They intend to build aneducational platform, and those
are two very different things.
Every once in a while, you'llsee them toss the word advocacy
around in one way or another.
But is it intentional?
Is it targeted?
Is it designed to change thetrajectory of some of these
(12:24):
proposed bills?
No, it's not.
They're waiting to see whathappens and then they're going
to react, just like they do witheverything.
They're either going to issue aposition paper or they're going
to tag themselves on the backof someone else's.
We saw that a lot during COVID.
Not mad at them, not trying totalk badly of them, but I do
(12:47):
want you to be educated andinformed.
They are not your advocacyorganization.
Here's the good news.
We need some good news in allof this right.
We do need some good news.
You're not helpless.
You have the power to advocatefrom the inside out.
I don't think that the way thatyou've been taught to advocate
(13:09):
for yourself from theseorganizations is the right way
to do it.
I think we need to be focusingon advocating from the inside
out, meaning developing theprofessional fluency to be able
to have needed conversations atthe drop of a hat,
(13:30):
differentiating yourself fromother school staff Y'all your
printable lessons are not goingto do that.
If anything, they make you looklike a second grade substitute
teacher.
Get rid of that stuff.
And third, building asustainable and strong
relationship of know like andtrust with your school
administrator.
All three of those things haveto be in place to effectively
(13:53):
advocate from the inside out.
So that's step number one.
Step number two is leaning onyour state school counseling
organizations.
Now, the bad part about this isthat they don't have a lot of
money.
Most of the school counselororganizations are operating on a
literal shoestring and haveleaders that are getting paid a
(14:16):
grand total of zero dollars tolead the organization.
This is true.
There are a few stateorganizations that can't afford
to pay their leaders, but theyare few and far between last I
checked.
So I thought, in all of thistalk about advocacy, let me look
at the organizations and seewhat's going on on their state
(14:39):
pages.
Let's just get a quick look-seeof what's happening.
So I pulled up a list of thefirst 10 school counseling
organizations in the UnitedStates, starting with Alabama,
ending with Georgia.
I went to every single schoolcounselor association site in
the first 10 states to see whatthey had on their homepage.
(14:59):
Because, with legislativesessions starting, with all of
the federal politics going onright now, one would assume that
we would seize material ontheir homepages to educate
members, to educate the publicsomething.
And on all of those webpages,except for a couple, there was
(15:24):
nothing about advocacy Zero.
Most of them were about theirannual conferences.
Remember what I said aboutbuilding an education platform
instead of an advocacy platform?
Yeah, it's reached the stateorganizations too.
Colorado props to Colorado.
(15:46):
They shared the ASCA positionstatement from this week but
then went right to theirconference that's not going to
be held until October.
Connecticut's webpage is themost current Out of those first
10,.
They mentioned National SchoolCounseling Week 2025,
nominations for awards.
(16:07):
Everybody else was eithere-learning conferences or
nothing.
But then, before I got toodiscouraged, I thought you know
what, steph?
That's not a good way to lookat this.
Let's look at the pendinglegislation in states, let's
look at some of the mostconcerning bills involving
school counselors and let's seewhat those state organizations
(16:29):
are doing.
Maybe it's just because all ofthese states aren't in the thick
of that stuff right now, right?
I mean, I don't know wheneverybody's legislative sessions
are.
So I went and pulled some ofthe most concerning bills I'd
heard about, and I also searchedall pending bills in the United
States for the words schoolcounselor, and I kind of picked
(16:50):
out some of the ones thatbothered me the most.
In Mississippi Senate, bill 2611seeks to remove the
acquirements of schoolcounselors to follow the ASCA
code of ethics.
That's an odd one to me.
I don't know why that would bea push.
I feel like there's a storybehind that.
(17:10):
So I went to the MississippiSchool Counselor Association
homepage nothing.
Their X feed, formerly known asTwitter, is blank.
Okay, and that's not great.
So then I went to my home stateof Texas.
Texas Senate Bill 559 strikesthe word certified from all
(17:34):
descriptions of schoolcounselors.
Yeah, they, they, I guess,think that anybody can be a
school counselor.
They're just going to starthiring people off the streets, I
don't know.
And then in another bill HouseBill 1510, it does the same
thing.
Now you guys know they'vealready passed legislation in
Texas to allow chaplains toserve in a school counseling
(17:58):
role on campuses.
So I guess this is the nextstep.
So I went to the Lone StarState School Counseling
Association homepage.
There's nothing on it.
I clicked the advocacy tab.
It hasn't been updated in ayear.
Next up Indiana Senate Bill 523,providing for chaplains to come
(18:22):
on campus to provide advice.
Because you all know that'swhat we do with school
counselors.
Right, we just sit back, wechat with the kids and then we
give them advice about what theyshould do next.
These people are sorelymistaken about our level of
training.
Again highlighting the need foreffective advocacy, but I
(18:42):
digress Indiana's homepage noinformation about it whatsoever
on the homepage or under theadvocacy tab.
Y'all.
I'm not trying to light thesepeople up, I'm just highlighting
a weakness that I see in ourindustry.
South Dakota House Bill 1201requires school counselors to
(19:03):
gain consent from parents beforebeginning a counseling
relationship with a student andrequires the school counselor to
notify the parent if thecounseling session contains a
substantially different subjectmatter.
Really, what they're talkingabout is gender identity.
Looked at the home page noinformation.
(19:26):
Looked at the home page of theschool counseling organization
looked at the homepage of theschool counseling organization
no advocacy or organizinginformation there.
And North Dakota this is myfavorite one so far and I'm
being extremely facetious when Isay that North Dakota House
Bill 1490 requires schoolcounselors to undergo a
(19:47):
psychological evaluation beforeproviding services to students.
Who comes up with this stuffLegit?
I saw a comment on our Facebookpage this morning.
Someone said if they're goingto require school counselors to
get psychological evaluations,they ought to require the
(20:10):
administrators to do one too.
That made me laugh.
North Dakota went to theirschool counseling association
homepage and you guessed itsquat.
So again, I'm not talking aboutthis because I'm trying to
badmouth people.
Again I say these associationsare running on a shoestring.
(20:31):
They're not even able to paythe people working within them
because they get no support fromthe national organization.
To my knowledge, according toASCA's tax returns, they have
not distributed any money to thestate organizations other than
the dues they collect on theirbehalf.
Those state dues are usuallypretty small compared to the
(20:51):
ESCA dues.
Right, and I think, more to thepoint, what this illustrates is
the fact that we are stuck inthe cycle of education.
We are so bound and determinedto continue talking about
trainings and webinars andmodels and conferences that were
(21:13):
missing the forest for thetrees, friends.
If we don't do something soon,we won't have any need for these
conferences anymore.
They won't be happening, and Ihate to sound like the sky is
falling, but y'all, it kind ofis, and it seems that everyone's
just sort of sitting back goingoh well, you know let's, let's
(21:35):
just wait and see what happens.
So I hate to be such a downer,especially on a week like this
week, but man, we got to starttalking through this because
this is getting to a point ofcritical mass and I'm not seeing
a lot of movement on it.
So contact your stateassociations, ask what you can
do to help, volunteer, put in afew hours a week, creating posts
(21:59):
for their Facebook groups,creating articles for their
homepages, educating people onthese pending pieces of
legislation.
Do something, find some waythat you can help, because if
you don't, we're going to end upwith this kind of baloney all
over the United States and it'sgoing to be extremely difficult
(22:21):
to do the jobs that we spent somuch time and so much money
acquiring.
All right, well, enough gloomand doom.
I do have some awesome news anda higher note to end this
podcast episode on.
I asked our School for SchoolCounselors, podcast listeners
and Facebook members to submitwhat they love most about their
(22:46):
school counseling work, and wegot a lot of great submissions.
So, as I leave you for thisepisode, I'm going to let you
listen in on some of my mostfavorite voice memos.
I hope it lifts you up.
I hope it inspires you forNational School Counseling Week
and remember as you listen andreflect on what it is that you
(23:09):
love about this wonderfulprofession.
Reach out to your stateassociation and ask how you can
help, and then follow through.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I love being a school counselor because I get to be
someone that kids can alwayscount on, whether they're having
a great day or a tough one.
I just love watching them growand helping them feel understood
and helping them build theirconfidence and seeing the impact
(23:43):
of these small moments ofconnection that we have, like
when a student feels seen orlearned something new about
themselves.
It just makes this work sotruly meaningful to me.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
What I love most about school counseling is
building relationships with mystudents and their families.
There's no better feeling thanbeing able to build that
connection, help those studentsand their families and let
students know that while they'reat school they are so very
loved.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I love working with kids and helping them on their
journey through life, as theyface obstacles, and helping them
overcome those obstacles.
I also love working with staffand teachers, because they do so
much for our kids on a dailybasis and helping them.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
School counseling is a job that gives me a sense of
purpose.
How lucky am I to have this job.
I love so much about schoolcounseling.
It has been a wonderful careerfor me.
I love the variety that we havein our day.
Every day is a new day.
I love seeing the students andtheir aha moments, Like I had a
(25:00):
class leave about 10 minutes agoand one of the students said
gosh, your class is kind of liketherapy.
I know we're not doing therapy,but it was so great to see that
she made the connection.
It was good for her to do whatwe did today in our lesson.
So I just love that when thekids can see and benefit from
what you're doing.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
It's a wonderful thing.
Hello, my name is Glenda Meadows, and what I love about being a
school counselor is I get thechance to positively impact the
life of a child every day in themost simple ways.
I've been a school counselorfor 31 years and I get joy from
the smallest things, like givingfriendly smiles that may help
(25:41):
turn around a student's day, orseeing a student's eyes light up
when you help them to findmoney to buy a yearbook, or the
tight hug that a student givesyou at the funeral of his dad
who passed away unexpectedly.
I learned early on in my careerthat we can have impact by
simply building meaningfulrelationships with our students,
(26:04):
and that is my why.
That is what I love about beinga school counselor.
Now, don't get me wrong.
I understand the importance ofthe big things like
accountability and data,classroom guidance and small
groups, 504s and behaviormanagement plans, but for me,
it's the little things, thelittle intangibles, that have
(26:26):
sustained me through the years.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Thanks, sustained me through the years.
Thanks, all right.
I hope you loved those as muchas I did.
Keep fighting the good fight.
We're all in this together andI'll be back soon with another
episode of the School for SchoolCounselors podcast.
Take care.
Hey, hey there, school counselor, happy National
School Counseling Week.
This episode is going to golive on the first day of
National School Counseling Weekand I am so excited to be here
celebrating it with you, even ifyou're not that excited about
it yourself.
We've been doing some polls andquestions in our Facebook group
(00:23):
and in other places, just kindof getting a vibe check on the
whole National School CounselorWeek thing.
Where do people stand, what arethey doing?
And it seems to be about a60-40 split where we've got 40%
of folks kind of diving in to dosomething for National School
(00:43):
Counseling Week and feel superexcited about it and super
motivated, and then about 60% ofthe people that we've talked to
saying that either it's justanother week or I really don't
want to celebrate NationalSchool Counseling Week.
You know I talked in episode133, which is two episodes back
(01:05):
from this one it was called ARealistic Approach to National
School Counseling Week about alot of the big feelings we have
about this week, and so I don'twant to rehash that information.
You can go back and listen toit if you want to hear that.
But I do want to talk aboutsomething that sort of blew up
(01:28):
in our Facebook group this weekand I would also love to share
with you some insights from yourfriends and colleagues about
why they love their work.
So if we haven't met, I'm StephJohnson.
I'm a full-time schoolcounselor, just like you, on a
mission to make schoolcounseling feel more sustainable
(01:49):
and more enjoyable.
I want you to feel competentand confident every day you walk
through the front doors of yourschool, and tonight I'm
recording this episode.
It's the Sunday night beforethe Monday that it's going to go
live, so talk about living onthe edge.
(02:09):
I'm recording in the eveningbecause the flu has hit our
house.
I have a kiddo down with theflu.
I have one down with whatappears to be some sort of
mystery virus.
At this point We'll see wherethat one heads.
But it's just a season, isn'tit, of sickness and of snow and
(02:30):
of lots of things going on.
For so many of you, it's kindof a tough time of the year.
So if you're feeling likeyou're struggling, you are not
alone, I promise you.
Our plates are just so full.
Our plates are just so full,which kind of brings me back to
the Facebook group Brew Ha Ha.
Now, if you didn't catch it,here's what happened.
(02:52):
I had been scrolling thesocials getting my own vibe
check on the things going on inschool counseling world, and I
picked up a lot of informationabout a lot of concerning
legislation in a lot ofdifferent states pertaining to
school counselors.
And so as I read these andlearned about them, of course I
(03:15):
went and verified the sourcefirst of all, because sometimes,
you know, things can getexaggerated on social media,
right, they can get inflated.
So I wanted to make sure that Iunderstood what was really
going on, and once I did that, Ikind of just made a little list
of all of the things I wasreading about.
And the more that I readthrough all of these proposed
(03:38):
bits of legislation, the moreconcerned I got.
And then in one post in anotherFacebook group, a commenter
commented this, and I don't knowwhy it hit me the way it did in
that moment.
I had seen this comment manytimes before but for some reason
, in that split second ofreading this comment, I thought
(04:02):
man, we got to talk about this.
And the comment was does ASCAknow about this?
It lit a fire in my soul y'all,and I could not help myself.
I had to answer that post andthen write a post of my own in
our School for School CounselorsFacebook group and I'll give
(04:25):
you just a little piece of it,just so that you know where I
was coming from.
Asca is not your advocate.
They will not come to your aid.
They do not provide support toyour state organizations out
there trying to do the dirtywork of changing hearts and
minds and legislatures, rightnow on a shoestring.
But they have no problemletting you believe they will.
(04:49):
With our memberships, we aresupporting an educational
endeavor, nothing more.
And by allowing people tobelieve that they will step in
and advocate, they have sealedthe deal of the decline of
school counseling across thecountry.
That parts my opinion and I'msticking to it, man.
(05:13):
I mean, I will tell you, I havebeen thinking this way for
years and I have alluded to ithere and there in the past.
And I have alluded to it hereand there in the past, but it is
really on my heart to startgetting more vocal about this,
to really start talking aboutthis, because I do believe that
(05:35):
lack of organized advocacy inour industry right now is on the
verge of promoting our collapse.
And I'm not saying that becauseI'm trying to sensationalize it
.
I'm not saying that because I'mjust trying to get everybody
all in a dither Not my goal atall.
But if you look around, you'regoing to start seeing what I see
(05:59):
.
If we start looking at thebigger picture, we're going to
see these little threads thatwe've been watching unwind year
after year are now creating somegiant holes in the fabric of
school counseling.
I went on to say this this isnot an attempt to badmouth the
(06:22):
organization, it's just settingthe record straight.
So many people aren't aware ofthe realities of our national
organization Conferences,journals, position statements, a
model of unfunded expectationsparked behind a paywall Y'all.
(06:44):
Do you realize that in order toget a copy of the ASCA national
model, you have to go onlineand buy it, and it's almost $50.
How do we convince ouradministrators what our jobs are
supposed to be if they have topay $50 to even find out what it
is?
This is crazy to me, absolutelycrazy.
(07:06):
And then, to wrap it up, I saidthere are no pics of ASCA
personnel testifying beforestate legislatures or meeting
with school board leaders.
There's not even any socialmedia proof of trying to sway
public opinion, of trying tosway public opinion.
(07:32):
We've been under heavy firepost-2020 and nary a public peep
about that from their corner.
If some of these legislativepieces pass soon, such as
requiring school counselors tohave a psychological evaluation
to work with the kid, you knowhow it happened.
The lobby is weak, it'sneglected and it's showing.
I am 100% sure that I'm goingto get a lot of flack over that.
(07:59):
I have no doubt in my mind andone of the ways I know that is
as soon as I published that postin our Facebook group, we
started getting a flurry of joinrequests from people who are
very ASCA affiliated.
They all of a sudden wereinterested in what we were doing
(08:21):
in our little corner of theinternet, presumably because
they either wanted to see what Iwas saying about ASCA or they
were coming to defend themselves.
I'm not exactly sure.
We have not admitted them intoour group yet.
We put a pause on that justbecause we don't want the drama.
We take a lot of pride inhaving the most drama-free
(08:44):
school counseling group on theplanet and we intend to keep it
that way.
That doesn't mean that I'mclosing off conversation with
these folks.
Once everybody's settled down alittle bit and we're ready to
have some constructiveconversation, we'll be glad to
invite them in.
In the meantime, if you knowany of them or maybe you were
(09:04):
one of the people that wasletting them know about all this
stuff, because I do know we hada few members that were doing
that, and that's fine have them.
Email me, steph, atschoolforschoolcounselorscom.
I welcome the dialogue.
I want to know more about thisbecause I want to be
well-educated in my opinions.
Right now I'm reporting on whatI see and I'm very aware that
(09:26):
there are things that I haveabsolutely no idea about, and if
someone wants to come clear theair with regard to those, I am
all ears.
But all that to say, these kindsof situations are probably why
you're feeling so frustrated andambivalent about National
School Counseling Week, becauseit is a mess.
(09:50):
It is an absolute mess.
The truth is we have nolarge-scale advocacy in place.
We have a lot of conferences,we have a lot of awards, we have
a lot of distinctions thateverybody likes to pat each
other on the back for and nottaking anything away from those
folks, for people that haveachieved RAMP or that are a
(10:13):
school counselor of the year.
I mean that's amazing, but arewe focusing in the right
direction for our journey atthis time?
Sure, school counselor of theYear and RAMP programs might
help promote awareness of schoolcounseling, but there's so much
more that needs to be done.
(10:35):
This week, asca posted aposition statement on some of
the new president's remarks, andthat is all we've seen from
them.
Advocacy-wise.
National School Counseling Weekis coming up.
In my opinion, just knowingwhat I know about promotion,
about reaching people on thesocials, they should have
(10:56):
already started a warm-upcampaign for this.
I haven't seen one, and again,I'm not here to criticize only
them.
In my post, I said a lot ofstate organizations are working
their guts out.
I do think that is true.
However, I will be honest, I'mnot seeing a lot of evidence of
that either, and so if we'retrying to change the hearts and
(11:18):
minds of people who make thesedecisions, who are in the
legislature or who have the earsof those that are, we need to
be getting more information outin a more efficient manner, in a
more targeted manner and in amore intentional manner.
(11:38):
I have nothing against them.
They have built a brilliantecosystem of trainings,
conferences, all kinds ofcredentials, certificates, you
name it.
But, guys, they've made it veryclear they do not intend to
(12:00):
build an advocacy organization.
They intend to build aneducational platform, and those
are two very different things.
Every once in a while, you'llsee them toss the word advocacy
around in one way or another.
But is it intentional?
Is it targeted?
Is it designed to change thetrajectory of some of these
(12:24):
proposed bills?
No, it's not.
They're waiting to see whathappens and then they're going
to react, just like they do witheverything.
They're either going to issue aposition paper or they're going
to tag themselves on the backof someone else's.
We saw that a lot during COVID.
Not mad at them, not trying totalk badly of them, but I do
(12:47):
want you to be educated andinformed.
They are not your advocacyorganization.
Here's the good news.
We need some good news in allof this right.
We do need some good news.
You're not helpless.
You have the power to advocatefrom the inside out.
I don't think that the way thatyou've been taught to advocate
(13:09):
for yourself from theseorganizations is the right way
to do it.
I think we need to be focusingon advocating from the inside
out, meaning developing theprofessional fluency to be able
to have needed conversations atthe drop of a hat,
(13:30):
differentiating yourself fromother school staff Y'all your
printable lessons are not goingto do that.
If anything, they make you looklike a second grade substitute
teacher.
Get rid of that stuff.
And third, building asustainable and strong
relationship of know like andtrust with your school
administrator.
All three of those things haveto be in place to effectively
(13:53):
advocate from the inside out.
So that's step number one.
Step number two is leaning onyour state school counseling
organizations.
Now, the bad part about this isthat they don't have a lot of
money.
Most of the school counselororganizations are operating on a
literal shoestring and haveleaders that are getting paid a
(14:16):
grand total of zero dollars tolead the organization.
This is true.
There are a few stateorganizations that can't afford
to pay their leaders, but theyare few and far between last I
checked.
So I thought, in all of thistalk about advocacy, let me look
at the organizations and seewhat's going on on their state
(14:39):
pages.
Let's just get a quick look-seeof what's happening.
So I pulled up a list of thefirst 10 school counseling
organizations in the UnitedStates, starting with Alabama,
ending with Georgia.
I went to every single schoolcounselor association site in
the first 10 states to see whatthey had on their homepage.
(14:59):
Because, with legislativesessions starting, with all of
the federal politics going onright now, one would assume that
we would seize material ontheir homepages to educate
members, to educate the publicsomething.
And on all of those webpages,except for a couple, there was
(15:24):
nothing about advocacy Zero.
Most of them were about theirannual conferences.
Remember what I said aboutbuilding an education platform
instead of an advocacy platform?
Yeah, it's reached the stateorganizations too.
Colorado props to Colorado.
(15:46):
They shared the ASCA positionstatement from this week but
then went right to theirconference that's not going to
be held until October.
Connecticut's webpage is themost current Out of those first
10,.
They mentioned National SchoolCounseling Week 2025,
nominations for awards.
(16:07):
Everybody else was eithere-learning conferences or
nothing.
But then, before I got toodiscouraged, I thought you know
what, steph?
That's not a good way to lookat this.
Let's look at the pendinglegislation in states, let's
look at some of the mostconcerning bills involving
school counselors and let's seewhat those state organizations
(16:29):
are doing.
Maybe it's just because all ofthese states aren't in the thick
of that stuff right now, right?
I mean, I don't know wheneverybody's legislative sessions
are.
So I went and pulled some ofthe most concerning bills I'd
heard about, and I also searchedall pending bills in the United
States for the words schoolcounselor, and I kind of picked
(16:50):
out some of the ones thatbothered me the most.
In Mississippi Senate, bill 2611seeks to remove the
acquirements of schoolcounselors to follow the ASCA
code of ethics.
That's an odd one to me.
I don't know why that would bea push.
I feel like there's a storybehind that.
(17:10):
So I went to the MississippiSchool Counselor Association
homepage nothing.
Their X feed, formerly known asTwitter, is blank.
Okay, and that's not great.
So then I went to my home stateof Texas.
Texas Senate Bill 559 strikesthe word certified from all
(17:34):
descriptions of schoolcounselors.
Yeah, they, they, I guess,think that anybody can be a
school counselor.
They're just going to starthiring people off the streets, I
don't know.
And then in another bill HouseBill 1510, it does the same
thing.
Now you guys know they'vealready passed legislation in
Texas to allow chaplains toserve in a school counseling
(17:58):
role on campuses.
So I guess this is the nextstep.
So I went to the Lone StarState School Counseling
Association homepage.
There's nothing on it.
I clicked the advocacy tab.
It hasn't been updated in ayear.
Next up Indiana Senate Bill 523,providing for chaplains to come
(18:22):
on campus to provide advice.
Because you all know that'swhat we do with school
counselors.
Right, we just sit back, wechat with the kids and then we
give them advice about what theyshould do next.
These people are sorelymistaken about our level of
training.
Again highlighting the need foreffective advocacy, but I
(18:42):
digress Indiana's homepage noinformation about it whatsoever
on the homepage or under theadvocacy tab.
Y'all.
I'm not trying to light thesepeople up, I'm just highlighting
a weakness that I see in ourindustry.
South Dakota House Bill 1201requires school counselors to
(19:03):
gain consent from parents beforebeginning a counseling
relationship with a student andrequires the school counselor to
notify the parent if thecounseling session contains a
substantially different subjectmatter.
Really, what they're talkingabout is gender identity.
Looked at the home page noinformation.
(19:26):
Looked at the home page of theschool counseling organization
looked at the homepage of theschool counseling organization
no advocacy or organizinginformation there.
And North Dakota this is myfavorite one so far and I'm
being extremely facetious when Isay that North Dakota House
Bill 1490 requires schoolcounselors to undergo a
(19:47):
psychological evaluation beforeproviding services to students.
Who comes up with this stuffLegit?
I saw a comment on our Facebookpage this morning.
Someone said if they're goingto require school counselors to
get psychological evaluations,they ought to require the
(20:10):
administrators to do one too.
That made me laugh.
North Dakota went to theirschool counseling association
homepage and you guessed itsquat.
So again, I'm not talking aboutthis because I'm trying to
badmouth people.
Again I say these associationsare running on a shoestring.
(20:31):
They're not even able to paythe people working within them
because they get no support fromthe national organization.
To my knowledge, according toASCA's tax returns, they have
not distributed any money to thestate organizations other than
the dues they collect on theirbehalf.
Those state dues are usuallypretty small compared to the
(20:51):
ESCA dues.
Right, and I think, more to thepoint, what this illustrates is
the fact that we are stuck inthe cycle of education.
We are so bound and determinedto continue talking about
trainings and webinars andmodels and conferences that were
(21:13):
missing the forest for thetrees, friends.
If we don't do something soon,we won't have any need for these
conferences anymore.
They won't be happening, and Ihate to sound like the sky is
falling, but y'all, it kind ofis, and it seems that everyone's
just sort of sitting back goingoh well, you know let's, let's
(21:35):
just wait and see what happens.
So I hate to be such a downer,especially on a week like this
week, but man, we got to starttalking through this because
this is getting to a point ofcritical mass and I'm not seeing
a lot of movement on it.
So contact your stateassociations, ask what you can
do to help, volunteer, put in afew hours a week, creating posts
(21:59):
for their Facebook groups,creating articles for their
homepages, educating people onthese pending pieces of
legislation.
Do something, find some waythat you can help, because if
you don't, we're going to end upwith this kind of baloney all
over the United States and it'sgoing to be extremely difficult
(22:21):
to do the jobs that we spent somuch time and so much money
acquiring.
All right, well, enough gloomand doom.
I do have some awesome news anda higher note to end this
podcast episode on.
I asked our School for SchoolCounselors, podcast listeners
and Facebook members to submitwhat they love most about their
(22:46):
school counseling work, and wegot a lot of great submissions.
So, as I leave you for thisepisode, I'm going to let you
listen in on some of my mostfavorite voice memos.
I hope it lifts you up.
I hope it inspires you forNational School Counseling Week
and remember as you listen andreflect on what it is that you
(23:09):
love about this wonderfulprofession.
Reach out to your stateassociation and ask how you can
help, and then follow through.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I love being a school counselor because I get to be
someone that kids can alwayscount on, whether they're having
a great day or a tough one.
I just love watching them growand helping them feel understood
and helping them build theirconfidence and seeing the impact
(23:43):
of these small moments ofconnection that we have, like
when a student feels seen orlearned something new about
themselves.
It just makes this work sotruly meaningful to me.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
What I love most about school counseling is
building relationships with mystudents and their families.
There's no better feeling thanbeing able to build that
connection, help those studentsand their families and let
students know that while they'reat school they are so very
loved.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
I love working with kids and helping them on their
journey through life, as theyface obstacles, and helping them
overcome those obstacles.
I also love working with staffand teachers, because they do so
much for our kids on a dailybasis and helping them.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
School counseling is a job that gives me a sense of
purpose.
How lucky am I to have this job.
I love so much about schoolcounseling.
It has been a wonderful careerfor me.
I love the variety that we havein our day.
Every day is a new day.
I love seeing the students andtheir aha moments, Like I had a
(25:00):
class leave about 10 minutes agoand one of the students said
gosh, your class is kind of liketherapy.
I know we're not doing therapy,but it was so great to see that
she made the connection.
It was good for her to do whatwe did today in our lesson.
So I just love that when thekids can see and benefit from
what you're doing.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
It's a wonderful thing.
Hello, my name is Glenda Meadows, and what I love about being a
school counselor is I get thechance to positively impact the
life of a child every day in themost simple ways.
I've been a school counselorfor 31 years and I get joy from
the smallest things, like givingfriendly smiles that may help
(25:41):
turn around a student's day, orseeing a student's eyes light up
when you help them to findmoney to buy a yearbook, or the
tight hug that a student givesyou at the funeral of his dad
who passed away unexpectedly.
I learned early on in my careerthat we can have impact by
simply building meaningfulrelationships with our students,
(26:04):
and that is my why.
That is what I love about beinga school counselor.
Now, don't get me wrong.
I understand the importance ofthe big things like
accountability and data,classroom guidance and small
groups, 504s and behaviormanagement plans, but for me,
it's the little things, thelittle intangibles, that have
(26:26):
sustained me through the years.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Thanks, sustained me through the years.
Thanks, all right.
I hope you loved those as muchas I did.
Keep fighting the good fight.
We're all in this together andI'll be back soon with another
episode of the School for SchoolCounselors podcast.
Take care.
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