July 27, 2022 • 38 mins
On any given day, you may see plastic pollution in a number of places, such as on the side of the road, or in a body of water. But, have you considered all of the plastic waste that you cannot see? Microplastics – a term that includes plastic particles that are 5 millimeters or smaller – are ubiquitous in the natural environment from our soils to the air we breathe. This episode features Lara Milligan, the Natural Resources Agent for UF/IFAS Extension Pinellas County, whose work focuses on wildlife, water, and general environmental education. Milligan discusses how microplastics end up in the environment, and the potential threats they pose. Listeners will learn practical ways to reduce the prevalence of microplastics.
Resources:
https://flseagrant.ifas.ufl.edu/microplastics
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/SS649
Take the Pledge: https://ufl.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_1YBvyhI6dy1qnfD
Transcripts available here: https://piecenter.com/media/podcast/#transcript
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The views, information, or opinions expressed by guest speakers on Science by the Slice are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily represent those of the UF/IFAS Center for Public Issues Education or the University of Florida.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ricky Telg (00:04):
This is science by the slice, a podcast from the
University of Florida'sInstitute of Food and
Agricultural Sciences Center forPublic Issues Education. In this
podcast, experts discuss thescience of issues affecting our
daily lives revealed themotivations behind the decisions
people make, and ultimatelyprovide insight to solutions for
our lives.
Phillip Stokes (00:32):
Hello, and welcome back to Science by the
Slice for episode two in ourseries on environmental
contaminants. So if you'rewilling, I'd like you to take a
deep breath in. I hope that feltnice. It's always a good way to
start a podcast. But what I'dreally like you to do now is to
(00:53):
think about the air you'rebreathing in. Every time you
inhale, you're breathing in avariety of gases, mainly
nitrogen and oxygen. But you'realso breathing in particulates,
such as dust, sand, pollen,spores, smoke, and now more than
ever plastic. More specificallymicroplastics, a term for small
(01:14):
plastics coined by RichardThompson, a marine ecologist at
the University of Plymouth inthe United Kingdom. Since
scientists have started studyingmicroplastics and looking for
microplastics, they found thempractically everywhere, at least
everywhere. They've looked indeep oceans and Arctic ice,
shellfish, table salt, drinkingwater, and yes, the air we
(01:40):
breathe, from the tallestmountains to our deepest oceans,
plastics are everywhere. So thequestion becomes, is all this a
problem? And the answer to thisquestion is complicated. And to
help us sort out a bit moreabout microplastics I talked
with Lara Milligan, the naturalresources agent for UF IFAS
(02:02):
extension in Pinellas County,Florida. Lara's work in Pinellas
County focuses on wildlife,water in general environmental
education on topics such asmicroplastics. So now, let's go
to my conversation with LaraMilligan. And she'll tell you a
little more about herself. And awhole lot more about
microplastics. Lara Milligan,thank you so much for joining us
(02:27):
on the PIE Center's podcastScience by the Slice, really
great to have you talking withme today. So Lara, you are the
natural resources, a extensionagent in Pinellas County. So I
do want to give you a minute tojust introduce yourself. But one
of the things I also want to sayon Science by the slice, we talk
about extension quite a bit, andthe role of extension and Land
(02:48):
Grant Universities and at theUniversity of Florida and IFAS.
But I think you are the firstextension agent that we've had
on Science by the Slice. So ifyou're introduced yourself, you
can just tell us a little bitabout what you do and what that
means.
Lara Milligan (03:04):
Yeah, well, I appreciate the opportunity. And
always, you know, to plugextension and explain a little
bit more about who we are andwhat we do. But yeah, so as the
natural resources agent, wealways say an extension, we are
an extension of the university,we have offices in every county
in the state, and as naturalresources agent, while what I do
varies because things change andshift in the environment. I
(03:26):
generally say like I do wildlifeand water education for the
public. So I teach all ages, weemphasize that everything we do
is research base, you know,we're not just gonna like make
up what it is that we're sharingabout the environment. And I got
into microplastics throughactually, like, it was a Florida
Seagrant training. And I kind ofcaptured that under like my
water outreach and education.
And it's been very eye openingfor me personally. So I'm
(03:49):
excited to be here to share thatwith your audience, and
hopefully not depress them toomuch.
Phillip Stokes (03:56):
Yeah, I don't know. Well, we'll get into all
that. But yeah, hopefully, it'snot not too overwhelming. But ya
know, that's that it's great tohave you on the show. And of
course, like you let in, we'retalking about microplastics. And
I think first off would be greatif we could just all get on the
same page, and you could justhelp us understand what are
(04:17):
microplastics
Lara Milligan (04:18):
Yeah, you know, it's funny, I do a lot of
outreach on the topic. And Ialways ask when I teach college
students, you know, what do youthink the definition of a
microplastic is, is I was like,well, a small plastic and yes,
that's awesome. And when we aretalking kind of like at the
scientific community levelresearchers, generally speaking,
we say it's any plastic particlethat's five millimeters in size
(04:43):
or smaller. And I know you know,in the United States,
millimeters might be a foreignthing. So it's about the size of
a pencil eraser, or smaller. Iwill say that depending on which
researchers you talk to somedon't like the five millimeters
in size or smaller because It'snot micro, if you can see it. So
some go by one, or two or evenlike 500 microns. So it's just
(05:07):
getting to that smaller levelwhere you need a microscope to
see it. So, depending where youtalk to you, it can vary, but
generally speaking, again, avery small piece of plastic.
Phillip Stokes (05:17):
Right? And so, I guess, um, where do they come
from? Like, what are thesources? And I guess just how
prevalent are they, you know,around us, especially if they
are small. Sometimes you can'tsee them. Like you said,
sometimes you can. I think we'reall very familiar with
pollution, right? Whether it'san bodies of water are just on
(05:38):
the side of the road, but like,where do microplastics come
from?
Lara Milligan (05:42):
Yeah, and that's a great question. And typically
like the number one questionthat I get asked, and I like to
explain it. When I talk aboutsources of microplastics. I, I
like to break it into two broadcategories. One is what we call
primary microplastics. And thenwe have secondary microplastics.
So for primary, those aresometimes referred to as
(06:02):
nurdles. They're the small likeraw resin pellets. They're tiny
little spheres of plastic. Andthat's what shipped all around
the world to plasticsmanufacturers. And then they're
those are melted down in moldedinto the various plastic
products that we see and useevery day. Of course, during
shipments like there can bespills of the nurdles. And then
so that's kind of like oneaspect, the nurdles could also
(06:24):
not be melted down and sometimesused as stuffing and various
things. One thing I like topoint to is Beanie Babies. I'm
not like calling out BeanieBabies as being bad. But it's
just an easy one. One of theprojects we do with youth is
dissecting the little miniBeanie Babies and counting how
many nurdles are inside. So it'sa good kind of connection for
(06:44):
the kiddos. So it can also beused in that way. And then also
not as much anymore because oflegislation that was passed. But
we might have heard of the termmicrobeads. So there'll be tiny
little spheres of plastic andvarious personal care products
often associated with likeexfoliation, there was the micro
(07:05):
bead free waters act of 2015,that has now eliminated the use
of microbeads and personal careproducts used for cleansing and
exfoliating purposes. So a lotof those are no longer on the
market. But there are someloopholes to legislation like
there always is. So some of themdo still exist. But so those are
like primary sources ofmicroplastics. Then secondary,
(07:26):
which is more what we kind ofsee and hear about is when
plastic products that are nowmolded and made and we use make
it into the environment. Andonce they break down and they
reach that size of fivemillimeters or smaller, then we
classify them as secondarymicroplastics. Now, the number
one source and this is likesince I've started learning
(07:49):
about microplastics. This iskind of a newer discovery in the
field. And the number one sourcewe're seeing in the research is
actually from car tires. So thewear and tear, we all know that
right over time, we have toreplace our car tires. And
there's a reason for that. Andso the wear and tear, there's
synthetic rubber in the tires.
And it took a while forresearchers, they were finding
(08:10):
these tiny pieces of blackplastic, but it takes very
expensive equipment andtechnology to actually source
the plastic and figure out whereit's coming from synthetic
Textiles is another big source.
So really any textile materialthat's made, we often think of
like polyester is a reallycommon material for clothing for
(08:31):
various for our sheets, right?
We like our microfiber sheets.
So lots of textiles. In themarine industry, there's not
only the paint that we put onboats that is getting, you know,
eroded over time. But we do alot of sandblasting to maintain
the boats to remove any likebiofilms or, you know barnacles
or things like that,historically sandblasting,
(08:54):
right, hence the name was yousand, we have now shifted to
using synthetic materials to dothat. And of course in the
process, we can lose thoseparticles. And another big one.
And this is a newer, anothernewer one for me. And the
research that I've seen isactually road markings. So all
of the markings that we see onthe road that keeps us in the
right lane. Those wear and tearover time it is made of
(09:17):
synthetic material also includespaint, and paint in itself as
another category. But as thesethings wear and tear and break
down. Those are all some of themajor sources of microplastics
in the environment.
Phillip Stokes (09:31):
It's funny because it's not funny, but it's
interesting. All of thesedifferent items that we rely on
just daily Yeah, I mean, ofcourse they're gonna break down
but you don't think about it.
I'm thinking about like the termlike unintended consequences of
just daily life with with tires.
And yeah, and you just hit onprobably some of the high level
(09:55):
things but you know, they'reprobably so many other things
but
Lara Milligan (09:58):
yeah, and yeah, I know, like even when I just
summarized like, and of course,like everything else that makes
its way into the environment.
That's a plastic product,through wave action, sunlight,
chemical degradation, all theseproducts, once they again, break
down to that five millimeters insize or smaller, those are
secondary. So it's really hardto like classify, and of course,
data is just continuing to bedone on this. But yeah, there's,
there's a lot of sources andmany, you know, I can't cover
(10:22):
them all. So those are just someof the larger ones.
Phillip Stokes (10:25):
Sure, sure. Just kind of a side story. I, you
know, I was doing some pressurewashing, and, you know, it's
pressure washing at one point,some like patio furniture that
like, had some, like algaegrowth on it and stuff. And so
like, even just like, I noticedthat some of like, the very
fine, you know, plastic coating,or whatever was starting to come
(10:47):
off a bit. I'm just thinking ofall of these different
scenarios, not to mention, youmentioned Beanie Babies, if you
need like any spare BeanieBabies for your dissection
process, like we, I mean, wejust have so many of these
things in our house and ourlives. They're just in our
infrastructure and unavoidable,right?
Lara Milligan (11:07):
Absolutely, it's, it is really overwhelming to
avoid plastics in general. Butone of the things I always say
is, if you if anyone doesresearch on like the history of
plastics, and kind of when theycame into production, it really
wasn't mass produced until likeafter World War Two. So I like
to remind people like we livedwithout plastic, there was a
(11:28):
time in life pre plastic. Soit's, it's so hard for us
because it is so pervasive, andeverywhere. And sometimes we
really don't have the option tolike, purchase certain products
that aren't plastic. But thereare tons of alternatives. We
probably won't have time to gointo all of those today. But it
can be overwhelming. Buthopefully, you know, we'll kind
of end on some action steps andthings you guys can do. And
(11:50):
yeah, they make it not sooverwhelming.
Phillip Stokes (11:52):
No, that would be great. And, you know, a
little while back, I remember Iwas talking to my mother in law.
And I don't know, somehow westarted talking about plastics
and recycling. And then, youknow, it just came up that, you
know, I said, when you were achild when you were young, was
everything made of plastic? Andshe said no, like, we didn't
have these things when I was,and that wasn't that long ago,
you know, he was a child. Youknow, she said everything was,
(12:15):
you know, glass or different,you know, metal products, you
know, and those were the thingsthat were a little that they
recycled even then or reused orrepurposed? So yeah, it's it's
just the, the history of this isso recent. Yes. So now that we
know, kind of what they are andwhere they come from, what are
some of the impacts and theeffects of microplastics in the
(12:40):
environment? And how does thataffect human health? How does
that affect our landscapes andour ecosystems? And the animals?
Just? I know, that's a lot. Butwe can we can start kind of with
a section of that. But how doeshow does that affect the
environment? Overall?
Lara Milligan (12:55):
kind of the easy catch all answer is right, that
we still honestly don't reallyknow, there's so much research
happening both on the aspects ofhuman health and of course, our
aquatic organisms. We know fromthe research, there's, you know,
hundreds of taxa of differentspecies globally around the
world that had been documentedto have ingested microplastics.
(13:17):
So we know that we also knowit's been found in human blood,
human stool, various parts ofthe human body. So the animals
we know, it's in us. So now it'skind of like, okay, we know it's
here. So what's, what are theconcerns? You know, what are the
potential impacts, and incertain species, there's, you
know, and again, I can't go intolike all the research, but like,
(13:40):
they're finding when we makeplastic products, there's
different chemicals that areadded to give it either really
be really strong and sturdy orvery kind of soft and flexible,
like think like a Ziploc bag. Ishould, I shouldn't say that,
it's a plastic bag. And thosedifferent additives is a concern
because of their potential toleach once they're either in us
(14:02):
or in organisms, their potentialto desorb or leach into the
system. And what are thoseimpacts? And that's the part
that we that we don't know. Sowe are detecting they're called
Sally Yates is one of the commonadditives. So we're finding
those in species we found it in,like locally in Florida down in
Sarasota, they found it in theurine of bottlenose dolphins.
(14:25):
They found the presence also inthe blubber of some whales that
were stranded. But it wasn't tothe point we could say, because
of this, this is why thisspecies died. We haven't been
able to get to that level yet.
And there's been tons ofdifferent studies looking at
like decreased stunted growth oforganisms as a result of
ingestion of microplastics justfeeding impairment their
inability to feed as efficientlyas they did prior impacts to
(14:48):
reproduction on for variouslevels, and then associated
impacts to their offspring andchanges in gene expression which
if You think, to a lot of ourplastic products, one of the
things we'll often see is thatit's BPA free, which is again,
another additive we later foundis not good for human health,
(15:08):
and therefore has been mostlystopped from production and
being included in certainplastic products. So it's like,
as we get this researchinformation, we can take action.
I will say, a lot of researcherscaution, kind of, of course,
extrapolating this data, a lotof this studies are done within
(15:28):
lab settings. So it's notrealistic to the environmental
settings. And one of the morethe easier accessible
microplastics to use in studiesis a polystyrene kind of like a
foam based plastic. But that'snot the majority of what we
actually see in our finding outin the environment. So it's also
(15:49):
like, there's just so manyvariables to consider, which
makes it very challenging forscientists to to extrapolate the
data to say like this is, theseare the negative impacts of
microplastics, kind of at thecellular level, when we think
about human health, they foundcell death associated with
microplastics. Being in thesystem, and kinda like
(16:11):
specifically to human health,there's been associations or
suggestions that could causerespiratory issues, impacts to
the functioning of the immunesystem, and potential for like
neuro toxicity. So I mentionedthose things leeching off. But
there's also research that showsthat microplastics tend to
(16:31):
absorb or basically collectvarious chemicals that are out
in the environment from our pasthistory, right, we used to just
dump wastewater in the ocean,like not too long ago. And so
there's tons and DDT and all thethings that before we knew
better, and there's a lot ofthose are still out in the
environment. And we're findingthat these contaminants are
(16:52):
being attracted to these plasticparticles. And depending on the
pH of the water, kind of theconsistency of the microplastic,
the shape of the microplastic,it can have more or less, even
things like metals. So there'sextreme concern with what is on
these particles that are eitherintentionally or unintentionally
being ingested by us and byanimals. But again, we just
(17:13):
don't have the research to saythis is causing x.
Phillip Stokes (17:17):
So yeah, you use the term adsorbed. And so like
the microplastics, are a vesselfor other contaminants.
Absolutely, then be interestedby?
Lara Milligan (17:31):
Yes, yeah, there's a lot of a lot of
research on that, and kind ofmore seems to be focusing on
like, at what level? Is thishappening? And how does it
compare to more organic materialthat's in the environment?
Because of course, those canserve a similar purpose. But
focusing on microplastics, ofcourse, is the focus a lot of a
lot of the research.
Phillip Stokes (17:50):
Yeah, you know, initially, you said, we don't
know, right, like, there's a lotof evidence that you just
suggested, but like, the thelong term impacts? And the very,
I don't know, like tangible,like in your face impacts, like,
yeah, like, like we don't know,that's like a kind of a
challenging place to be, right.
It's challenging place to sit,because people, it's our human
(18:12):
nature, we want to know, what weneed to do, what we need to not
do. But this ambiguity is, is,is a challenge, thinking back to
like, towards the beginning ofCOVID. Like, we didn't know what
to do, and that was very scary.
And so like, different differentscenarios. I don't want to
compare the two necessarily, butlike, just this lack of
(18:34):
understanding and about what todo, does create a challenge,
right?
Lara Milligan (18:39):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely not, I think it's
important to highlight like,what we do know, which is,
there's a lot of plastic out inthe environment. And, you know,
you just alluded to COVID,which, you know, you think too,
that related to plastic, we canonly imagine how much extra
plastics enter the environment,I saw some studies specifically
(19:00):
looking at the impact of facemasks as it relates to
microplastics. So, right,there's some connection there.
So not totally irrelevant. Ithink that, you know, the
research can point to certainpotential impacts, whether it's
from the additives leaching offor from directly, then
microplastics. But again, one ofthe things I like to stress is,
sometimes we can't, like, Iknow, it's very hard for us, but
(19:21):
we can't always wait for theresearch to say like, Hey, this
is gonna cause X, like, we don'twant to wait sometimes to find
that out. And really, the onlyway to avoid pretty much
everything we're going to talkabout today is right, just
getting away from the use ofplastics and plastic products.
Of course, they have theirplace, right. We're very
grateful for many of thepurposes that they serve, but
(19:43):
there's many things right, orthey're not essential, and we
can avoid them.
Phillip Stokes (19:48):
Right. Right.
I'm also thinking about, yeah,avoiding them and, and there's a
lot of personal responsibility,and that, you know, I saw
something recently that a surveywhere Americans believe that
it's kind of everyone'sresponsibility, it's to reduce
the amount of plastic. Sothere's just kind of this
general awareness aboutplastics, plastic pollution,
(20:10):
micro plastics, that thatawareness is also growing. And
people typically want to reducetheir reliance on plastics,
according to a survey, so, andthey think that it's up to
everyone. So it's up toindividuals, right? Personal
Responsibility. It's up tomanufacturers, like the
businesses that make some ofthese things, but and then it's
(20:32):
also up to governmentregulators, as well. So I think
people do understand that it hasto be a holistic and sort of
team effort, if you will. Hasthere been any, any amount of
any legislation, you talkedabout the the ban on like,
microbeads, or in like, shampoosand like exfoliating ingredients
(20:54):
and stuff like that, but havethere been any other legislative
bans that have aimed to reduceplastics in the environment?
Lara Milligan (21:04):
Yeah, that's a good question. So there's
recently a kind of it was prettybig national news, perhaps it's
because I'm biased, and I seeall things microplastics. But
there is an effort underway. Atthe global level, there's 175
countries that are currentlyworking on like a plastics
(21:25):
treaty, if you want to call itthat. And they're looking at
like 2024, to kind of have adraft of this in place, where
globally, we're going to beworking together incorporating
some of these massive companiesthat we like to always, you
know, call out like, Hey, whyaren't they doing anything about
it? There's some onboardaccording to what's being
discussed, of course, we won'tknow until its final. So I
(21:46):
think, you know, that's excitingthat we're recognizing this,
like, globally is like, we haveto do something about this. So
we will, unfortunately, have tojust wait and see. But that's
exciting news that, you know,world leaders are coming
together to agree to take actionand recognize that it's a global
issue. More locally, there is aban, but not the kind of ban,
(22:10):
you're talking about. There'sactually it's a preemption. So
there's a ban against banningplastic bags in the state of
Florida. It's kind of expandedand, you know, because then
people were like, Okay, well,then we'll ban straws, and will
ban, you know, certain otherproducts. And there's many
aspects to that, and I won't,you know, dive into it. But what
(22:30):
I've seen locally, because inmy, in Pinellas County, they
they tried kind of, to still dothe band's anyway, some local
cities are still trying to getaway with it. And what we've
really seen shift is like, whyfocus on like, one particular
product? Why just xy? Juststraws? And then how do you
really enforce that? And is iteffective? So like, all these
(22:52):
questions, so people started toshift to this voluntary effort,
which is more what I've seen. Sowe have like, we have a local
group called Ocean allies. Andit's a group of restaurants and
hotels that are on ClearwaterBeach, right? The number one
Beach, people flock here, andthey're realizing like, hey, we
want to, we need to be green andrepresent and show our tourists
(23:13):
like what we're all about. Sothey just started this voluntary
effort, they're supporting eachother to find alternative
plastic products, sometimes,like getting in buying
agreements to get these productscheaper. So that's more what I'm
seeing is that not necessarilyrelying on leather legislation,
but just like taking it intoyour own hands grassroots effort
(23:33):
to make it change.
Phillip Stokes (23:35):
You know, what's really interesting, another kind
of bigger point that I'mthinking about, you know, when
we think a lot about negativeenvironmental impacts, we think
about negative actions thatcause those things. Right. And I
kind of alluded to this at thebeginning, but it's almost
inaction that is causing thebuildup of plastics, right. And
(23:55):
so it does take a concertedeffort. And that's challenging,
right, a concerted effort toreduce our reliance, and the
amount of plastics we purchase.
And there are just so many otherthings that we have to worry
about on a daily basis. Andgoing back to that survey we
mentioned before, I mean, youknow, plastic pollution of
microplastics is important, butbut it's a little bit lower on
(24:18):
the list. You know, it's belowthe economy. It's below health,
and other among other things,but it is there is some effort
that has to be put in, youmentioned that sort of those
grassroots efforts. So what aresome of the things that people
can do to take action to if theywant to, you know, reduce some
of their reliance on plastics?
Lara Milligan (24:41):
Yeah. And I think that's a really good point. It's
kind of I always think of itlike tragedy of the commons.
It's like, it's so overwhelming,like, what can I really do as an
individual to make a difference?
And I always say, Well, you cando something right. We can all
do something big or smallinstead of getting to this like,
we're just like, this inaction.
Like you said, We're just sooverwhelmed that we do Don't do
anything. So that's what we wantto try and avoid. So my
(25:04):
involvement with microplasticsreally started with the Florida
microplastics Awareness Project,which is, you can just go to
plasticaware.org. And on thatsite, if you scroll down,
there's actually a link to apledge. And the pledge gives
just some really good like lowhanging fruit, ideas of things
people can do. So one of thethings we say is, like I
(25:24):
mentioned the personal careproduct. So we actually have
people write on the ingredientslist of any personal care
product that you have, you know,it tells you it's in there, just
like reading a nutrition labelon your food. It'll tell you if
it contains polyethylene. And soyou can, you know, just start,
start there, read that, if yourproduct does, then you can write
to the company or just vote bynot purchasing that product
(25:47):
again in the future. And thenjust anything that's reusable,
right, Bring your reusable bagswhen you go shopping, I like to
emphasize people are pretty goodif you are doing reusable bags
when you go grocery shopping,but like even if you're going to
the mall or somewhere else, likeit still applies there as well.
Like I have one little one thatlike folds up really small. So I
(26:08):
just always kind of have one ofthose in my purse, plastic
drinking straws, that's a prettyeasy one you can just avoid like
when you if you're going out toorder, you just say you know,
I'd like water, no straw. Or ofcourse, they have all these, you
know, there's stainless steelstraws, there's glass straws,
paper straws, I see most of theyounger generations bringing
their own water bottles, I dofeel like that's a shift I've
(26:28):
seen just in my 10 years inextension is like plastic water
bottles or more. And I don'tknow the research on this, this
is just my observation seem tobe an older generation thing.
And the younger generations arelike anti plastic water bottles,
which is great, you know,bringing your own coffee cups,
anything that's reusable. Onethat is kind of like maybe the
(26:49):
next level if you do some ofthese other things. This would
be like next level is bringingyour own container for like a to
go container. If you go to arestaurant, there are some
collapsible containers that youcan bring. I've even asked a
local restaurant, could I bringmy own containers? Like if I'm
going to call new takeout? Can Ibring my containers and you put
it in there? This one said yes,I don't know if that's against
(27:12):
health regulations. But youknow, you could ask if it's a
little local mom and pop shop.
And then, of course recyclinganything, we can do it to avoid
the production of new plastics,so avoiding it to begin with or
reusing what already exists outin the environment. And probably
the last one, this is kind of mybig what my personal big one
that I focus on is choosingnatural fibers and materials and
(27:34):
the clothing that I wear. Andyou would be surprised how
difficult it is to find 100%I'll just say cotton, because
that's a very common naturalmaterial. So that I feel like is
a pretty good one. If you'relike, I'm not going to do the
100% cotton clothing, somethingyou could consider is doing like
(27:54):
more thrift store shoppinginstead of like, creating new
production of these materials isjust using what's already out in
the environment. So again, kindof this reuse idea. So those are
just some low hanging fruitideas that we list on the
pledge. Of course, there's manymore, you could bring your own
utensils, they have little likebamboo utensil kits, and it's
kind of like bring your owneverything. And then again, some
(28:15):
other little ideas.
Phillip Stokes (28:20):
Yeah, those are wonderful. And yeah, I'm so glad
that you mentioned kind of thatshort list there of some things
that people can do that arelistening. Yeah, I'm gonna
mention something, and we'll seeif this makes the final cut. But
there's also this kind ofoverwhelming, or maybe
overarching. So sort of socialparadigm going on, right?
(28:41):
Because a lot of the people thatmay be taking part in some of
these actions, like, yeah, theyfeel it in their core, that
that's something that theyshould be doing. And then
there's also maybe an idea ofnot wanting to support those
things, because maybe theindividuals, your you surround
yourself, your community thinksthere's their negative
(29:02):
associations with being green,or you know, those types of
things. I don't really knowwhere I'm going with this. But
But I think generally, theseactions, I mean, they they help
everyone, so I don't know, whathave you noticed within your
community in Pinellas County?
You know, of course, we talkedabout the beginning and
(29:22):
extension, you work with peopleall the time. I mean, what are
you hearing in general, justfrom your constituents and the
residents in your area aboutthis?
Lara Milligan (29:32):
Yeah, I can kind of I was relating to what you
were saying because one of thethings I like to always try to
do in my job is, is realize thatnot everybody lives in my
environmental bubble. In fact,the majority of people do not.
And that's been really helpfulfor me like since becoming a
mom, I have a new mommy group,most of whom are not
(29:53):
environmentally minded people.
And so just having conversationswith them has been very eye
opening for me to realize likethis is what the majority of the
public thinks or like, literallydoes not think about at all,
which like, they do not thinkabout or care about plastics,
the majority of them. But Ithink that just further
emphasizes the point for thoseof us that do care, the actions
that we take can ultimately likeimpact them, like perhaps a
(30:14):
store gets enough push for,like, why are you even offering
plastic bags, and perhaps yourfriend shops at that store. And
now like, without them evenknowing now, like, Oh, they're
kind of forced to bring areusable bag or just like carry
out their materials. So, so it'shard. I mean, we can't
necessarily reach everybodydirectly, but there are ways we
can reach them indirectly. And Ithink another way that we can do
(30:36):
that, so I mentioned, like,you're kind of voting by the
products that you purchase. Solike, I'll give another example.
So I like I like Newman's Ownspaghetti, okay, that's my go to
one day, I'm going down theaisle. And they had switched
from a glass jar to a plasticjar. And I was like, ah, like,
okay, you've just lost me as acustomer. And of course, I'm
(30:58):
upset because this is like theone spaghetti sauce that I found
that I love. So I write to thecompany, they give me some
answer that I was not satisfiedwith. But since that time, you
know, I'm not saying it was me,but perhaps enough people wrote
in that they are now back toglass containers. So I think
just, you know, reaching out,like, if you have a minute, like
I literally just did this onFacebook, I miss found Newman's
Own on Facebook and sent them amessage. So I think, you know,
(31:20):
we have a lot more accessibilityas consumers, there's a lot more
to consume as well, which can beoverwhelming, but I think
asking, definitely never hurts.
I even got the University ofFlorida to offer 100% Cotton
shirts for employees, becausemost of them were were blends
and nobody had thought about it.
Because, again, microplasticsare so new, and in the world of,
(31:41):
of research. So just I thinkspeaking up can really lead to
some big change that, you know,maybe we might not ever see the
impacts, or perhaps we do downthe road. And I don't know, if
my one message on Facebook madea difference. I don't really
know. But somehow it changed. So
Phillip Stokes (31:58):
and I'm what you're saying kind of makes me
think back to a previous guestwe had on our podcast, but just
about like, not understatingyour impact, or the power that
you can or may have, you know,stepping away from, if you feel
strongly about something,whatever that whatever you're
(32:19):
want to advocate for, whetherit's the environment for
agriculture, for naturalresources issues, whatever.
Yeah, don't understate the powerof, of groups of individuals to
be able to make an impact. Yeah,I think that's a probably a
pretty powerful thing toremember. And so I'm glad that
you stated that. One thing I wasalso thinking about with
(32:40):
plastics and natural fibersversus synthetic fibers. I don't
know there's just kind of thislittle like, joke conversation
going on in my head wheresomeone years ago said, Hey, I
need a pair of socks, right?
Well, why don't we drill up someoil? Make a synthetic bead, melt
it down, turn it into these longfibers, make a sock? And then
(33:00):
here you get, you know, like,how did how did we get to that
spot? It's there's a lot ofsteps that had to get there. And
like you said at the beginning,I mean, we there are a lot of
things that probably a lot ofmedical equipment and other
things that we rely on. Butthere are things that we may not
have to rely on for plastics.
Lara Milligan (33:21):
Yeah, yeah. And there's been, I mean, since,
like, microplastics came to theforefront and especially in like
the textile industry. For me, itwas so fleece jackets, were kind
of one of the number one interms of clothing that was
studied. Because if you thinkabout how they're designed,
they're like, We love thembecause they're soft and cozy.
Because the way that they'rewoven, which is very loosely.
(33:42):
And so when we wash those, theyshed a lot of these synthetic
fibers. So a lot of research waslike, Okay, how many fibers are
they shedding? And now we're atthe point of, okay, like, what
can we do to prevent this? Sothere's tons I mean, this is
people's jobs, like literallyto, there's a whole textile
industry. So they're trying tofigure out like, different ways
(34:02):
that we can weave so there areless fiber shed, and of course,
like alternatives altogether. Soit's like, you know, of course,
as we have problems, we'realways looking for solutions.
So, and we wouldn't be lookingfor these solutions. If we
didn't know we had a problem. Sothere's, you know, some back and
forth there. But yeah, we can'treally make change, right,
unless we know there's a problemor assume, you know, through the
precautionary principle thatthere will be a problem.
Phillip Stokes (34:25):
Lara is there any, are there any other topics
you want? want to mention aboutmicroplastics? Anything about
effects on on the environment? Iknow you do a lot in marine
environments as well. So justwant to open it up to see if
there's anything that we didn'ttouch on?
Lara Milligan (34:44):
Not I mean, of course, you know, I can touch on
a million things, but I think wekind of hit the high points, you
know, and I think to kind oflike summarize, as we do know,
there's microplasticseverywhere. I know we didn't get
into the fact that they're inthe air but like, right, we're
ingesting Then we're inhalingthem where we have direct
contact with them. And I thinkyeah, again, just like
(35:04):
stressing, like, we know this ishere, we know there's the
potential for there to be aproblem. So I just encourage
people to, you know, take thesmall steps like just start, I
always say, start with one,like, if straws is going to be
your thing that that, go for it,get it, go big or go home. But
don't, it's very easy to getoverwhelmed with, like, all the
things that you could do. So Isay start with one. And you'll
(35:24):
find like, okay, you've masteredthat one note, you can do
another one. And I think thepower of leading by example to
like, anytime I do amicroplastics talk, I show
everybody what's in my purse,which is like, you know, my
folded up reusable bag, myreusable utensils, my straw.
Like all these things, theyprobably think I'm psycho, and
that's fine. But perhaps I youknow, I inspired one person. And
that to me, you know thatsuccess. So I just encourage
(35:47):
people not to focus on the doomand gloom, but like to take
whatever small step it is, youknow, even if that's sharing
what you learned today withsomebody else like that, in
itself is helpful. So
Phillip Stokes (35:58):
and also, learning more and going to the
what the website you mentioned,plasticaware.org, right, the
plastic awareness project. Tolearn more about that
Lara Milligan (36:09):
there's tons of resources out there, of course,
to learn about microplasticsthrough NOAA and various other
resources. But one of the coolthings on the plasticware.org
website is also on the mainpage. And there's a link to a
Google map that shows so theproject is focused on citizen
science and outreach andeducation. And the citizen
science piece is people goingout collecting water sample like
(36:30):
locally, and filtering them andanalyzing them for the presence
of microplastics. So you canliterally zoom in to your
county, and see if anyone'sdoing that research. And like if
you have it, right there, Ithink the project is cool,
because it localizes theproblem, it's easy to think
about plastics as a globalproblem. And therefore, there's
inaction because we don't feellike it impacts us. But when
(36:52):
we're like, oh, they're finding,you know, 10 pieces of plastic
per leader, right on ClearwaterBeach. Like I could do something
to help that. So that could behelpful for you. And if you see
there's no dots on the map inyour area, you can reach out
there's coordinators allthroughout the state. So we can
definitely build that build thatdatabase and increase awareness
that way.
Phillip Stokes (37:12):
Well, Lara Milligan, thank you so much for
being on Science by the Sliceand talking today about
microplastics. And just theincredible work you do in the
community. They're in PinellasCounty and throughout the state
of Florida. So we're so happy tohave you on the podcast today.
Lara Milligan (37:25):
Well, thank you so much. I appreciate the
opportunity.
Ricky Telg (37:32):
Science by the Slice is produced by the UF IFAS
Center for Public IssuesEducation in Agriculture and
Natural Resources. Thanks forlistening to today's episode.
Subscribe to Science by theSlice on your favorite podcast
app and give us a rating orreview as well. Have a question
or comment? Send us an email topiecenter@ifas.ufl.edu. That's
(37:55):
piecenter all one word at IFAS,I F A S.ufl.edu. We'd love to
hear from you. If you enjoyedtoday's episode, consider
sharing with a friend orcolleague. Until next time,
thanks for listening to Scienceby the Slice.
This is science by the slice, a podcast from the
University of Florida'sInstitute of Food and
Agricultural Sciences Center forPublic Issues Education. In this
podcast, experts discuss thescience of issues affecting our
daily lives revealed themotivations behind the decisions
people make, and ultimatelyprovide insight to solutions for
our lives.
Phillip Stokes (00:32):
Hello, and welcome back to Science by the
Slice for episode two in ourseries on environmental
contaminants. So if you'rewilling, I'd like you to take a
deep breath in. I hope that feltnice. It's always a good way to
start a podcast. But what I'dreally like you to do now is to
(00:53):
think about the air you'rebreathing in. Every time you
inhale, you're breathing in avariety of gases, mainly
nitrogen and oxygen. But you'realso breathing in particulates,
such as dust, sand, pollen,spores, smoke, and now more than
ever plastic. More specificallymicroplastics, a term for small
(01:14):
plastics coined by RichardThompson, a marine ecologist at
the University of Plymouth inthe United Kingdom. Since
scientists have started studyingmicroplastics and looking for
microplastics, they found thempractically everywhere, at least
everywhere. They've looked indeep oceans and Arctic ice,
shellfish, table salt, drinkingwater, and yes, the air we
(01:40):
breathe, from the tallestmountains to our deepest oceans,
plastics are everywhere. So thequestion becomes, is all this a
problem? And the answer to thisquestion is complicated. And to
help us sort out a bit moreabout microplastics I talked
with Lara Milligan, the naturalresources agent for UF IFAS
(02:02):
extension in Pinellas County,Florida. Lara's work in Pinellas
County focuses on wildlife,water in general environmental
education on topics such asmicroplastics. So now, let's go
to my conversation with LaraMilligan. And she'll tell you a
little more about herself. And awhole lot more about
microplastics. Lara Milligan,thank you so much for joining us
(02:27):
on the PIE Center's podcastScience by the Slice, really
great to have you talking withme today. So Lara, you are the
natural resources, a extensionagent in Pinellas County. So I
do want to give you a minute tojust introduce yourself. But one
of the things I also want to sayon Science by the slice, we talk
about extension quite a bit, andthe role of extension and Land
(02:48):
Grant Universities and at theUniversity of Florida and IFAS.
But I think you are the firstextension agent that we've had
on Science by the Slice. So ifyou're introduced yourself, you
can just tell us a little bitabout what you do and what that
means.
Lara Milligan (03:04):
Yeah, well, I appreciate the opportunity. And
always, you know, to plugextension and explain a little
bit more about who we are andwhat we do. But yeah, so as the
natural resources agent, wealways say an extension, we are
an extension of the university,we have offices in every county
in the state, and as naturalresources agent, while what I do
varies because things change andshift in the environment. I
(03:26):
generally say like I do wildlifeand water education for the
public. So I teach all ages, weemphasize that everything we do
is research base, you know,we're not just gonna like make
up what it is that we're sharingabout the environment. And I got
into microplastics throughactually, like, it was a Florida
Seagrant training. And I kind ofcaptured that under like my
water outreach and education.
And it's been very eye openingfor me personally. So I'm
(03:49):
excited to be here to share thatwith your audience, and
hopefully not depress them toomuch.
Phillip Stokes (03:56):
Yeah, I don't know. Well, we'll get into all
that. But yeah, hopefully, it'snot not too overwhelming. But ya
know, that's that it's great tohave you on the show. And of
course, like you let in, we'retalking about microplastics. And
I think first off would be greatif we could just all get on the
same page, and you could justhelp us understand what are
(04:17):
microplastics
Lara Milligan (04:18):
Yeah, you know, it's funny, I do a lot of
outreach on the topic. And Ialways ask when I teach college
students, you know, what do youthink the definition of a
microplastic is, is I was like,well, a small plastic and yes,
that's awesome. And when we aretalking kind of like at the
scientific community levelresearchers, generally speaking,
we say it's any plastic particlethat's five millimeters in size
(04:43):
or smaller. And I know you know,in the United States,
millimeters might be a foreignthing. So it's about the size of
a pencil eraser, or smaller. Iwill say that depending on which
researchers you talk to somedon't like the five millimeters
in size or smaller because It'snot micro, if you can see it. So
some go by one, or two or evenlike 500 microns. So it's just
(05:07):
getting to that smaller levelwhere you need a microscope to
see it. So, depending where youtalk to you, it can vary, but
generally speaking, again, avery small piece of plastic.
Phillip Stokes (05:17):
Right? And so, I guess, um, where do they come
from? Like, what are thesources? And I guess just how
prevalent are they, you know,around us, especially if they
are small. Sometimes you can'tsee them. Like you said,
sometimes you can. I think we'reall very familiar with
pollution, right? Whether it'san bodies of water are just on
(05:38):
the side of the road, but like,where do microplastics come
from?
Lara Milligan (05:42):
Yeah, and that's a great question. And typically
like the number one questionthat I get asked, and I like to
explain it. When I talk aboutsources of microplastics. I, I
like to break it into two broadcategories. One is what we call
primary microplastics. And thenwe have secondary microplastics.
So for primary, those aresometimes referred to as
(06:02):
nurdles. They're the small likeraw resin pellets. They're tiny
little spheres of plastic. Andthat's what shipped all around
the world to plasticsmanufacturers. And then they're
those are melted down in moldedinto the various plastic
products that we see and useevery day. Of course, during
shipments like there can bespills of the nurdles. And then
so that's kind of like oneaspect, the nurdles could also
(06:24):
not be melted down and sometimesused as stuffing and various
things. One thing I like topoint to is Beanie Babies. I'm
not like calling out BeanieBabies as being bad. But it's
just an easy one. One of theprojects we do with youth is
dissecting the little miniBeanie Babies and counting how
many nurdles are inside. So it'sa good kind of connection for
(06:44):
the kiddos. So it can also beused in that way. And then also
not as much anymore because oflegislation that was passed. But
we might have heard of the termmicrobeads. So there'll be tiny
little spheres of plastic andvarious personal care products
often associated with likeexfoliation, there was the micro
(07:05):
bead free waters act of 2015,that has now eliminated the use
of microbeads and personal careproducts used for cleansing and
exfoliating purposes. So a lotof those are no longer on the
market. But there are someloopholes to legislation like
there always is. So some of themdo still exist. But so those are
like primary sources ofmicroplastics. Then secondary,
(07:26):
which is more what we kind ofsee and hear about is when
plastic products that are nowmolded and made and we use make
it into the environment. Andonce they break down and they
reach that size of fivemillimeters or smaller, then we
classify them as secondarymicroplastics. Now, the number
one source and this is likesince I've started learning
(07:49):
about microplastics. This iskind of a newer discovery in the
field. And the number one sourcewe're seeing in the research is
actually from car tires. So thewear and tear, we all know that
right over time, we have toreplace our car tires. And
there's a reason for that. Andso the wear and tear, there's
synthetic rubber in the tires.
And it took a while forresearchers, they were finding
(08:10):
these tiny pieces of blackplastic, but it takes very
expensive equipment andtechnology to actually source
the plastic and figure out whereit's coming from synthetic
Textiles is another big source.
So really any textile materialthat's made, we often think of
like polyester is a reallycommon material for clothing for
(08:31):
various for our sheets, right?
We like our microfiber sheets.
So lots of textiles. In themarine industry, there's not
only the paint that we put onboats that is getting, you know,
eroded over time. But we do alot of sandblasting to maintain
the boats to remove any likebiofilms or, you know barnacles
or things like that,historically sandblasting,
(08:54):
right, hence the name was yousand, we have now shifted to
using synthetic materials to dothat. And of course in the
process, we can lose thoseparticles. And another big one.
And this is a newer, anothernewer one for me. And the
research that I've seen isactually road markings. So all
of the markings that we see onthe road that keeps us in the
right lane. Those wear and tearover time it is made of
(09:17):
synthetic material also includespaint, and paint in itself as
another category. But as thesethings wear and tear and break
down. Those are all some of themajor sources of microplastics
in the environment.
Phillip Stokes (09:31):
It's funny because it's not funny, but it's
interesting. All of thesedifferent items that we rely on
just daily Yeah, I mean, ofcourse they're gonna break down
but you don't think about it.
I'm thinking about like the termlike unintended consequences of
just daily life with with tires.
And yeah, and you just hit onprobably some of the high level
(09:55):
things but you know, they'reprobably so many other things
but
Lara Milligan (09:58):
yeah, and yeah, I know, like even when I just
summarized like, and of course,like everything else that makes
its way into the environment.
That's a plastic product,through wave action, sunlight,
chemical degradation, all theseproducts, once they again, break
down to that five millimeters insize or smaller, those are
secondary. So it's really hardto like classify, and of course,
data is just continuing to bedone on this. But yeah, there's,
there's a lot of sources andmany, you know, I can't cover
(10:22):
them all. So those are just someof the larger ones.
Phillip Stokes (10:25):
Sure, sure. Just kind of a side story. I, you
know, I was doing some pressurewashing, and, you know, it's
pressure washing at one point,some like patio furniture that
like, had some, like algaegrowth on it and stuff. And so
like, even just like, I noticedthat some of like, the very
fine, you know, plastic coating,or whatever was starting to come
(10:47):
off a bit. I'm just thinking ofall of these different
scenarios, not to mention, youmentioned Beanie Babies, if you
need like any spare BeanieBabies for your dissection
process, like we, I mean, wejust have so many of these
things in our house and ourlives. They're just in our
infrastructure and unavoidable,right?
Lara Milligan (11:07):
Absolutely, it's, it is really overwhelming to
avoid plastics in general. Butone of the things I always say
is, if you if anyone doesresearch on like the history of
plastics, and kind of when theycame into production, it really
wasn't mass produced until likeafter World War Two. So I like
to remind people like we livedwithout plastic, there was a
(11:28):
time in life pre plastic. Soit's, it's so hard for us
because it is so pervasive, andeverywhere. And sometimes we
really don't have the option tolike, purchase certain products
that aren't plastic. But thereare tons of alternatives. We
probably won't have time to gointo all of those today. But it
can be overwhelming. Buthopefully, you know, we'll kind
of end on some action steps andthings you guys can do. And
(11:50):
yeah, they make it not sooverwhelming.
Phillip Stokes (11:52):
No, that would be great. And, you know, a
little while back, I remember Iwas talking to my mother in law.
And I don't know, somehow westarted talking about plastics
and recycling. And then, youknow, it just came up that, you
know, I said, when you were achild when you were young, was
everything made of plastic? Andshe said no, like, we didn't
have these things when I was,and that wasn't that long ago,
you know, he was a child. Youknow, she said everything was,
(12:15):
you know, glass or different,you know, metal products, you
know, and those were the thingsthat were a little that they
recycled even then or reused orrepurposed? So yeah, it's it's
just the, the history of this isso recent. Yes. So now that we
know, kind of what they are andwhere they come from, what are
some of the impacts and theeffects of microplastics in the
(12:40):
environment? And how does thataffect human health? How does
that affect our landscapes andour ecosystems? And the animals?
Just? I know, that's a lot. Butwe can we can start kind of with
a section of that. But how doeshow does that affect the
environment? Overall?
Lara Milligan (12:55):
kind of the easy catch all answer is right, that
we still honestly don't reallyknow, there's so much research
happening both on the aspects ofhuman health and of course, our
aquatic organisms. We know fromthe research, there's, you know,
hundreds of taxa of differentspecies globally around the
world that had been documentedto have ingested microplastics.
(13:17):
So we know that we also knowit's been found in human blood,
human stool, various parts ofthe human body. So the animals
we know, it's in us. So now it'skind of like, okay, we know it's
here. So what's, what are theconcerns? You know, what are the
potential impacts, and incertain species, there's, you
know, and again, I can't go intolike all the research, but like,
(13:40):
they're finding when we makeplastic products, there's
different chemicals that areadded to give it either really
be really strong and sturdy orvery kind of soft and flexible,
like think like a Ziploc bag. Ishould, I shouldn't say that,
it's a plastic bag. And thosedifferent additives is a concern
because of their potential toleach once they're either in us
(14:02):
or in organisms, their potentialto desorb or leach into the
system. And what are thoseimpacts? And that's the part
that we that we don't know. Sowe are detecting they're called
Sally Yates is one of the commonadditives. So we're finding
those in species we found it in,like locally in Florida down in
Sarasota, they found it in theurine of bottlenose dolphins.
(14:25):
They found the presence also inthe blubber of some whales that
were stranded. But it wasn't tothe point we could say, because
of this, this is why thisspecies died. We haven't been
able to get to that level yet.
And there's been tons ofdifferent studies looking at
like decreased stunted growth oforganisms as a result of
ingestion of microplastics justfeeding impairment their
inability to feed as efficientlyas they did prior impacts to
(14:48):
reproduction on for variouslevels, and then associated
impacts to their offspring andchanges in gene expression which
if You think, to a lot of ourplastic products, one of the
things we'll often see is thatit's BPA free, which is again,
another additive we later foundis not good for human health,
(15:08):
and therefore has been mostlystopped from production and
being included in certainplastic products. So it's like,
as we get this researchinformation, we can take action.
I will say, a lot of researcherscaution, kind of, of course,
extrapolating this data, a lotof this studies are done within
(15:28):
lab settings. So it's notrealistic to the environmental
settings. And one of the morethe easier accessible
microplastics to use in studiesis a polystyrene kind of like a
foam based plastic. But that'snot the majority of what we
actually see in our finding outin the environment. So it's also
(15:49):
like, there's just so manyvariables to consider, which
makes it very challenging forscientists to to extrapolate the
data to say like this is, theseare the negative impacts of
microplastics, kind of at thecellular level, when we think
about human health, they foundcell death associated with
microplastics. Being in thesystem, and kinda like
(16:11):
specifically to human health,there's been associations or
suggestions that could causerespiratory issues, impacts to
the functioning of the immunesystem, and potential for like
neuro toxicity. So I mentionedthose things leeching off. But
there's also research that showsthat microplastics tend to
(16:31):
absorb or basically collectvarious chemicals that are out
in the environment from our pasthistory, right, we used to just
dump wastewater in the ocean,like not too long ago. And so
there's tons and DDT and all thethings that before we knew
better, and there's a lot ofthose are still out in the
environment. And we're findingthat these contaminants are
(16:52):
being attracted to these plasticparticles. And depending on the
pH of the water, kind of theconsistency of the microplastic,
the shape of the microplastic,it can have more or less, even
things like metals. So there'sextreme concern with what is on
these particles that are eitherintentionally or unintentionally
being ingested by us and byanimals. But again, we just
(17:13):
don't have the research to saythis is causing x.
Phillip Stokes (17:17):
So yeah, you use the term adsorbed. And so like
the microplastics, are a vesselfor other contaminants.
Absolutely, then be interestedby?
Lara Milligan (17:31):
Yes, yeah, there's a lot of a lot of
research on that, and kind ofmore seems to be focusing on
like, at what level? Is thishappening? And how does it
compare to more organic materialthat's in the environment?
Because of course, those canserve a similar purpose. But
focusing on microplastics, ofcourse, is the focus a lot of a
lot of the research.
Phillip Stokes (17:50):
Yeah, you know, initially, you said, we don't
know, right, like, there's a lotof evidence that you just
suggested, but like, the thelong term impacts? And the very,
I don't know, like tangible,like in your face impacts, like,
yeah, like, like we don't know,that's like a kind of a
challenging place to be, right.
It's challenging place to sit,because people, it's our human
(18:12):
nature, we want to know, what weneed to do, what we need to not
do. But this ambiguity is, is,is a challenge, thinking back to
like, towards the beginning ofCOVID. Like, we didn't know what
to do, and that was very scary.
And so like, different differentscenarios. I don't want to
compare the two necessarily, butlike, just this lack of
(18:34):
understanding and about what todo, does create a challenge,
right?
Lara Milligan (18:39):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely not, I think it's
important to highlight like,what we do know, which is,
there's a lot of plastic out inthe environment. And, you know,
you just alluded to COVID,which, you know, you think too,
that related to plastic, we canonly imagine how much extra
plastics enter the environment,I saw some studies specifically
(19:00):
looking at the impact of facemasks as it relates to
microplastics. So, right,there's some connection there.
So not totally irrelevant. Ithink that, you know, the
research can point to certainpotential impacts, whether it's
from the additives leaching offor from directly, then
microplastics. But again, one ofthe things I like to stress is,
sometimes we can't, like, Iknow, it's very hard for us, but
(19:21):
we can't always wait for theresearch to say like, Hey, this
is gonna cause X, like, we don'twant to wait sometimes to find
that out. And really, the onlyway to avoid pretty much
everything we're going to talkabout today is right, just
getting away from the use ofplastics and plastic products.
Of course, they have theirplace, right. We're very
grateful for many of thepurposes that they serve, but
(19:43):
there's many things right, orthey're not essential, and we
can avoid them.
Phillip Stokes (19:48):
Right. Right.
I'm also thinking about, yeah,avoiding them and, and there's a
lot of personal responsibility,and that, you know, I saw
something recently that a surveywhere Americans believe that
it's kind of everyone'sresponsibility, it's to reduce
the amount of plastic. Sothere's just kind of this
general awareness aboutplastics, plastic pollution,
(20:10):
micro plastics, that thatawareness is also growing. And
people typically want to reducetheir reliance on plastics,
according to a survey, so, andthey think that it's up to
everyone. So it's up toindividuals, right? Personal
Responsibility. It's up tomanufacturers, like the
businesses that make some ofthese things, but and then it's
(20:32):
also up to governmentregulators, as well. So I think
people do understand that it hasto be a holistic and sort of
team effort, if you will. Hasthere been any, any amount of
any legislation, you talkedabout the the ban on like,
microbeads, or in like, shampoosand like exfoliating ingredients
(20:54):
and stuff like that, but havethere been any other legislative
bans that have aimed to reduceplastics in the environment?
Lara Milligan (21:04):
Yeah, that's a good question. So there's
recently a kind of it was prettybig national news, perhaps it's
because I'm biased, and I seeall things microplastics. But
there is an effort underway. Atthe global level, there's 175
countries that are currentlyworking on like a plastics
(21:25):
treaty, if you want to call itthat. And they're looking at
like 2024, to kind of have adraft of this in place, where
globally, we're going to beworking together incorporating
some of these massive companiesthat we like to always, you
know, call out like, Hey, whyaren't they doing anything about
it? There's some onboardaccording to what's being
discussed, of course, we won'tknow until its final. So I
(21:46):
think, you know, that's excitingthat we're recognizing this,
like, globally is like, we haveto do something about this. So
we will, unfortunately, have tojust wait and see. But that's
exciting news that, you know,world leaders are coming
together to agree to take actionand recognize that it's a global
issue. More locally, there is aban, but not the kind of ban,
(22:10):
you're talking about. There'sactually it's a preemption. So
there's a ban against banningplastic bags in the state of
Florida. It's kind of expandedand, you know, because then
people were like, Okay, well,then we'll ban straws, and will
ban, you know, certain otherproducts. And there's many
aspects to that, and I won't,you know, dive into it. But what
(22:30):
I've seen locally, because inmy, in Pinellas County, they
they tried kind of, to still dothe band's anyway, some local
cities are still trying to getaway with it. And what we've
really seen shift is like, whyfocus on like, one particular
product? Why just xy? Juststraws? And then how do you
really enforce that? And is iteffective? So like, all these
(22:52):
questions, so people started toshift to this voluntary effort,
which is more what I've seen. Sowe have like, we have a local
group called Ocean allies. Andit's a group of restaurants and
hotels that are on ClearwaterBeach, right? The number one
Beach, people flock here, andthey're realizing like, hey, we
want to, we need to be green andrepresent and show our tourists
(23:13):
like what we're all about. Sothey just started this voluntary
effort, they're supporting eachother to find alternative
plastic products, sometimes,like getting in buying
agreements to get these productscheaper. So that's more what I'm
seeing is that not necessarilyrelying on leather legislation,
but just like taking it intoyour own hands grassroots effort
(23:33):
to make it change.
Phillip Stokes (23:35):
You know, what's really interesting, another kind
of bigger point that I'mthinking about, you know, when
we think a lot about negativeenvironmental impacts, we think
about negative actions thatcause those things. Right. And I
kind of alluded to this at thebeginning, but it's almost
inaction that is causing thebuildup of plastics, right. And
(23:55):
so it does take a concertedeffort. And that's challenging,
right, a concerted effort toreduce our reliance, and the
amount of plastics we purchase.
And there are just so many otherthings that we have to worry
about on a daily basis. Andgoing back to that survey we
mentioned before, I mean, youknow, plastic pollution of
microplastics is important, butbut it's a little bit lower on
(24:18):
the list. You know, it's belowthe economy. It's below health,
and other among other things,but it is there is some effort
that has to be put in, youmentioned that sort of those
grassroots efforts. So what aresome of the things that people
can do to take action to if theywant to, you know, reduce some
of their reliance on plastics?
Lara Milligan (24:41):
Yeah. And I think that's a really good point. It's
kind of I always think of itlike tragedy of the commons.
It's like, it's so overwhelming,like, what can I really do as an
individual to make a difference?
And I always say, Well, you cando something right. We can all
do something big or smallinstead of getting to this like,
we're just like, this inaction.
Like you said, We're just sooverwhelmed that we do Don't do
anything. So that's what we wantto try and avoid. So my
(25:04):
involvement with microplasticsreally started with the Florida
microplastics Awareness Project,which is, you can just go to
plasticaware.org. And on thatsite, if you scroll down,
there's actually a link to apledge. And the pledge gives
just some really good like lowhanging fruit, ideas of things
people can do. So one of thethings we say is, like I
(25:24):
mentioned the personal careproduct. So we actually have
people write on the ingredientslist of any personal care
product that you have, you know,it tells you it's in there, just
like reading a nutrition labelon your food. It'll tell you if
it contains polyethylene. And soyou can, you know, just start,
start there, read that, if yourproduct does, then you can write
to the company or just vote bynot purchasing that product
(25:47):
again in the future. And thenjust anything that's reusable,
right, Bring your reusable bagswhen you go shopping, I like to
emphasize people are pretty goodif you are doing reusable bags
when you go grocery shopping,but like even if you're going to
the mall or somewhere else, likeit still applies there as well.
Like I have one little one thatlike folds up really small. So I
(26:08):
just always kind of have one ofthose in my purse, plastic
drinking straws, that's a prettyeasy one you can just avoid like
when you if you're going out toorder, you just say you know,
I'd like water, no straw. Or ofcourse, they have all these, you
know, there's stainless steelstraws, there's glass straws,
paper straws, I see most of theyounger generations bringing
their own water bottles, I dofeel like that's a shift I've
(26:28):
seen just in my 10 years inextension is like plastic water
bottles or more. And I don'tknow the research on this, this
is just my observation seem tobe an older generation thing.
And the younger generations arelike anti plastic water bottles,
which is great, you know,bringing your own coffee cups,
anything that's reusable. Onethat is kind of like maybe the
(26:49):
next level if you do some ofthese other things. This would
be like next level is bringingyour own container for like a to
go container. If you go to arestaurant, there are some
collapsible containers that youcan bring. I've even asked a
local restaurant, could I bringmy own containers? Like if I'm
going to call new takeout? Can Ibring my containers and you put
it in there? This one said yes,I don't know if that's against
(27:12):
health regulations. But youknow, you could ask if it's a
little local mom and pop shop.
And then, of course recyclinganything, we can do it to avoid
the production of new plastics,so avoiding it to begin with or
reusing what already exists outin the environment. And probably
the last one, this is kind of mybig what my personal big one
that I focus on is choosingnatural fibers and materials and
(27:34):
the clothing that I wear. Andyou would be surprised how
difficult it is to find 100%I'll just say cotton, because
that's a very common naturalmaterial. So that I feel like is
a pretty good one. If you'relike, I'm not going to do the
100% cotton clothing, somethingyou could consider is doing like
(27:54):
more thrift store shoppinginstead of like, creating new
production of these materials isjust using what's already out in
the environment. So again, kindof this reuse idea. So those are
just some low hanging fruitideas that we list on the
pledge. Of course, there's manymore, you could bring your own
utensils, they have little likebamboo utensil kits, and it's
kind of like bring your owneverything. And then again, some
(28:15):
other little ideas.
Phillip Stokes (28:20):
Yeah, those are wonderful. And yeah, I'm so glad
that you mentioned kind of thatshort list there of some things
that people can do that arelistening. Yeah, I'm gonna
mention something, and we'll seeif this makes the final cut. But
there's also this kind ofoverwhelming, or maybe
overarching. So sort of socialparadigm going on, right?
(28:41):
Because a lot of the people thatmay be taking part in some of
these actions, like, yeah, theyfeel it in their core, that
that's something that theyshould be doing. And then
there's also maybe an idea ofnot wanting to support those
things, because maybe theindividuals, your you surround
yourself, your community thinksthere's their negative
(29:02):
associations with being green,or you know, those types of
things. I don't really knowwhere I'm going with this. But
But I think generally, theseactions, I mean, they they help
everyone, so I don't know, whathave you noticed within your
community in Pinellas County?
You know, of course, we talkedabout the beginning and
(29:22):
extension, you work with peopleall the time. I mean, what are
you hearing in general, justfrom your constituents and the
residents in your area aboutthis?
Lara Milligan (29:32):
Yeah, I can kind of I was relating to what you
were saying because one of thethings I like to always try to
do in my job is, is realize thatnot everybody lives in my
environmental bubble. In fact,the majority of people do not.
And that's been really helpfulfor me like since becoming a
mom, I have a new mommy group,most of whom are not
(29:53):
environmentally minded people.
And so just having conversationswith them has been very eye
opening for me to realize likethis is what the majority of the
public thinks or like, literallydoes not think about at all,
which like, they do not thinkabout or care about plastics,
the majority of them. But Ithink that just further
emphasizes the point for thoseof us that do care, the actions
that we take can ultimately likeimpact them, like perhaps a
(30:14):
store gets enough push for,like, why are you even offering
plastic bags, and perhaps yourfriend shops at that store. And
now like, without them evenknowing now, like, Oh, they're
kind of forced to bring areusable bag or just like carry
out their materials. So, so it'shard. I mean, we can't
necessarily reach everybodydirectly, but there are ways we
can reach them indirectly. And Ithink another way that we can do
(30:36):
that, so I mentioned, like,you're kind of voting by the
products that you purchase. Solike, I'll give another example.
So I like I like Newman's Ownspaghetti, okay, that's my go to
one day, I'm going down theaisle. And they had switched
from a glass jar to a plasticjar. And I was like, ah, like,
okay, you've just lost me as acustomer. And of course, I'm
(30:58):
upset because this is like theone spaghetti sauce that I found
that I love. So I write to thecompany, they give me some
answer that I was not satisfiedwith. But since that time, you
know, I'm not saying it was me,but perhaps enough people wrote
in that they are now back toglass containers. So I think
just, you know, reaching out,like, if you have a minute, like
I literally just did this onFacebook, I miss found Newman's
Own on Facebook and sent them amessage. So I think, you know,
(31:20):
we have a lot more accessibilityas consumers, there's a lot more
to consume as well, which can beoverwhelming, but I think
asking, definitely never hurts.
I even got the University ofFlorida to offer 100% Cotton
shirts for employees, becausemost of them were were blends
and nobody had thought about it.
Because, again, microplasticsare so new, and in the world of,
(31:41):
of research. So just I thinkspeaking up can really lead to
some big change that, you know,maybe we might not ever see the
impacts, or perhaps we do downthe road. And I don't know, if
my one message on Facebook madea difference. I don't really
know. But somehow it changed. So
Phillip Stokes (31:58):
and I'm what you're saying kind of makes me
think back to a previous guestwe had on our podcast, but just
about like, not understatingyour impact, or the power that
you can or may have, you know,stepping away from, if you feel
strongly about something,whatever that whatever you're
(32:19):
want to advocate for, whetherit's the environment for
agriculture, for naturalresources issues, whatever.
Yeah, don't understate the powerof, of groups of individuals to
be able to make an impact. Yeah,I think that's a probably a
pretty powerful thing toremember. And so I'm glad that
you stated that. One thing I wasalso thinking about with
(32:40):
plastics and natural fibersversus synthetic fibers. I don't
know there's just kind of thislittle like, joke conversation
going on in my head wheresomeone years ago said, Hey, I
need a pair of socks, right?
Well, why don't we drill up someoil? Make a synthetic bead, melt
it down, turn it into these longfibers, make a sock? And then
(33:00):
here you get, you know, like,how did how did we get to that
spot? It's there's a lot ofsteps that had to get there. And
like you said at the beginning,I mean, we there are a lot of
things that probably a lot ofmedical equipment and other
things that we rely on. Butthere are things that we may not
have to rely on for plastics.
Lara Milligan (33:21):
Yeah, yeah. And there's been, I mean, since,
like, microplastics came to theforefront and especially in like
the textile industry. For me, itwas so fleece jackets, were kind
of one of the number one interms of clothing that was
studied. Because if you thinkabout how they're designed,
they're like, We love thembecause they're soft and cozy.
Because the way that they'rewoven, which is very loosely.
(33:42):
And so when we wash those, theyshed a lot of these synthetic
fibers. So a lot of research waslike, Okay, how many fibers are
they shedding? And now we're atthe point of, okay, like, what
can we do to prevent this? Sothere's tons I mean, this is
people's jobs, like literallyto, there's a whole textile
industry. So they're trying tofigure out like, different ways
(34:02):
that we can weave so there areless fiber shed, and of course,
like alternatives altogether. Soit's like, you know, of course,
as we have problems, we'realways looking for solutions.
So, and we wouldn't be lookingfor these solutions. If we
didn't know we had a problem. Sothere's, you know, some back and
forth there. But yeah, we can'treally make change, right,
unless we know there's a problemor assume, you know, through the
precautionary principle thatthere will be a problem.
Phillip Stokes (34:25):
Lara is there any, are there any other topics
you want? want to mention aboutmicroplastics? Anything about
effects on on the environment? Iknow you do a lot in marine
environments as well. So justwant to open it up to see if
there's anything that we didn'ttouch on?
Lara Milligan (34:44):
Not I mean, of course, you know, I can touch on
a million things, but I think wekind of hit the high points, you
know, and I think to kind oflike summarize, as we do know,
there's microplasticseverywhere. I know we didn't get
into the fact that they're inthe air but like, right, we're
ingesting Then we're inhalingthem where we have direct
contact with them. And I thinkyeah, again, just like
(35:04):
stressing, like, we know this ishere, we know there's the
potential for there to be aproblem. So I just encourage
people to, you know, take thesmall steps like just start, I
always say, start with one,like, if straws is going to be
your thing that that, go for it,get it, go big or go home. But
don't, it's very easy to getoverwhelmed with, like, all the
things that you could do. So Isay start with one. And you'll
(35:24):
find like, okay, you've masteredthat one note, you can do
another one. And I think thepower of leading by example to
like, anytime I do amicroplastics talk, I show
everybody what's in my purse,which is like, you know, my
folded up reusable bag, myreusable utensils, my straw.
Like all these things, theyprobably think I'm psycho, and
that's fine. But perhaps I youknow, I inspired one person. And
that to me, you know thatsuccess. So I just encourage
(35:47):
people not to focus on the doomand gloom, but like to take
whatever small step it is, youknow, even if that's sharing
what you learned today withsomebody else like that, in
itself is helpful. So
Phillip Stokes (35:58):
and also, learning more and going to the
what the website you mentioned,plasticaware.org, right, the
plastic awareness project. Tolearn more about that
Lara Milligan (36:09):
there's tons of resources out there, of course,
to learn about microplasticsthrough NOAA and various other
resources. But one of the coolthings on the plasticware.org
website is also on the mainpage. And there's a link to a
Google map that shows so theproject is focused on citizen
science and outreach andeducation. And the citizen
science piece is people goingout collecting water sample like
(36:30):
locally, and filtering them andanalyzing them for the presence
of microplastics. So you canliterally zoom in to your
county, and see if anyone'sdoing that research. And like if
you have it, right there, Ithink the project is cool,
because it localizes theproblem, it's easy to think
about plastics as a globalproblem. And therefore, there's
inaction because we don't feellike it impacts us. But when
(36:52):
we're like, oh, they're finding,you know, 10 pieces of plastic
per leader, right on ClearwaterBeach. Like I could do something
to help that. So that could behelpful for you. And if you see
there's no dots on the map inyour area, you can reach out
there's coordinators allthroughout the state. So we can
definitely build that build thatdatabase and increase awareness
that way.
Phillip Stokes (37:12):
Well, Lara Milligan, thank you so much for
being on Science by the Sliceand talking today about
microplastics. And just theincredible work you do in the
community. They're in PinellasCounty and throughout the state
of Florida. So we're so happy tohave you on the podcast today.
Lara Milligan (37:25):
Well, thank you so much. I appreciate the
opportunity.
Ricky Telg (37:32):
Science by the Slice is produced by the UF IFAS
Center for Public IssuesEducation in Agriculture and
Natural Resources. Thanks forlistening to today's episode.
Subscribe to Science by theSlice on your favorite podcast
app and give us a rating orreview as well. Have a question
or comment? Send us an email topiecenter@ifas.ufl.edu. That's
(37:55):
piecenter all one word at IFAS,I F A S.ufl.edu. We'd love to
hear from you. If you enjoyedtoday's episode, consider
sharing with a friend orcolleague. Until next time,
thanks for listening to Scienceby the Slice.
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