March 30, 2022 • 38 mins
In this episode, Eric sits down with Aryanna Trejo, a professional learning specialist of Code.org. Aryanna shares her journey from working as an elementary teacher in New York City and Los Angeles to teaching other educators at Code.org. Eric and Aryanna chat about computer literacy within the science classroom, problem-solving skills, and ways to model productive struggle for students. Aryanna also shares ways to teach coding and computer literacy in schools, no matter the classroom’s technology level.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aryanna Trejo (00:00):
I would hear teachers saying things like,
"Well, I just can't do coding;this is too hard for me; the
time has passed." And I wouldask them,"Would you say that to
your student about math orEnglish?" And they would always
sheepishly go,"No." And I'd say,"Well, be as kind to yourself as
you would be to your student."
Eric Cross (00:19):
Welcome to Science Connections.
I'm your host, Eric Cross.
My guest today is Aryanna Trejo.
Aryanna is a member of theprofessional learning team at
Code.org.
Before joining Code.org, Aryannaled computer science
professional development forelementary school teachers, and
served as an instructional coachfor new educators.
She also taught fourth and fifthgrade in both New York City and
(00:42):
in Los Angeles.
In this episode, we discussAryanna's journey to Code.org,
where she helps educatorsconnect coding to real life, how
to use a rubber duck to solveproblems, and how coding and
computer science principles canbe taught to students in areas
without access to theinternet...or even a computer.
I hope you enjoy my conversationwith Aryanna Trejo.
(01:07):
So I was born and raised here,and I saw that you went to UC
San Diego.
Aryanna Trejo (01:11):
I did, I did.
I actually just put a depositdown on an apartment in
University Heights,'cause I'mmoving back.
Eric Cross (01:16):
You're coming back?
Aryanna Trejo (01:17):
I'm coming back.
Yeah.
Eric Cross (01:19):
So if you need a classroom to visit....
Aryanna Trejo (01:21):
I would love to do more classroom observations!
Eric Cross (01:24):
Are we doing this?
Let's do—we're making thishappen.
Aryanna Trejo (01:26):
We are.
Yeah.
So I'll be there.
I'm moving there in April.
I actually grew up in OrangeCounty too, so I'm like a very
diehard SoCal person.
Eric Cross (01:35):
So I feel like I know the answer to,
hopefully—Tupac or Biggie?
'Cause you're on the East Coast,and you're on the West Coast.
Aryanna Trejo (01:40):
Yeah.
I like Tupac, but I have moreBiggie songs committed to
memory.
Which is not a lot.
I have"Juicy" and"Hypnotized"memorized.
Eric Cross (01:53):
All right.
So you're just memorizing, andyou have the Biggie songs
memorized, but not the Tupacones.
Aryanna Trejo (01:58):
No, but I do love Tupac songs.
You know, it's like, Biggie hasthe flow, but Tupac has the
lyrics.
Nobody's—they both havesomething really amazing about
them.
Eric Cross (02:06):
You know, I can respect that you broke it down
into both of their strengths.
Aryanna Trejo (02:11):
Thanks for buttering me up before this
interview.
And not....
Eric Cross (02:15):
Oh, we
already started.
Aryanna Trejo (02:16):
Huh?
We already started?
Eric Cross (02:17):
We're already started.
Yeah.
We're already into this.
Aryanna Trejo (02:19):
We're into it.
Eric Cross (02:21):
You were in the classroom, fourth and fifth
grade, and you were doing TFA.
Aryanna Trejo (02:26):
I did.
I did Teach For America.
I was 2012, New York City Corps.
Right after graduation.
'Cause I graduated UC San Diegoin 2012.
So graduation was on June 17th,and I touched down at JFK on
June 19th.
Eric Cross (02:40):
Even though I wasn't in TFA, I know a lot of the
fellows that are in it.
And there's just some phenomenalteachers in there.
How long were you doingelementary school when you were
teaching?
Aryanna Trejo (02:49):
Yeah, I taught for—well, I did, three years of
teaching fourth grade.
Then there happened to be aninstructional coach opening in
my fourth year.
I took that, did someinstructional coaching within
the same network, and then Imoved back to LA and I taught
fifth grade for a year.
Eric Cross (03:11):
OK.
And what was it like now?
Did you go to Code.org rightafter the classroom?
Aryanna Trejo (03:17):
No, I didn't.
No.
I transitioned after teachingfifth grade for a year in
downtown Los Angeles, in thePico-Union neighborhood.
I ended up getting this emailout of the blue from someone who
had actually found me throughthe Teach for America job site.
'Cause I was hitting thepavement; I was really looking
to transition out of theclassroom.
And she invited me to interviewwith this company called 9 Dots.
(03:43):
And they taught computer scienceto kids K–6 throughout Los
Angeles and Compton.
And I was like,"Sure, noproblem.
Let's do it." So I interviewed,I got the job, and yeah, that's
how I transitioned to 9 Dots.
And then after almost four yearsthere, I transitioned to
Code.org, with the same person.
Actually, she moved over toCode.org first, and then she
(04:06):
helped me get this job.
Eric Cross (04:07):
Oh, that's happened a lot—like, that relationship
kinda carries over.
Aryanna Trejo (04:11):
Yeah.
We're meant to be coworkers.
Eric Cross (04:13):
Yeah.
Are you still?
Is she still there?
Are you both still together?
Aryanna Trejo (04:17):
Yeah, we're on the same team and it's nice.
I saw her last night for HappyHour, with another coworker
who's in LA.
So we're tight.
And she's a wonderful, wonderfulmentor to me.
Eric Cross (04:28):
That's great.
Did you have computer-sciencebackground, when you were doing
elementary school teaching?
Did you have—
Aryanna Trejo (04:34):
No.
Not at all.
When I was teaching in New YorkCity, I had like four desktop
computers in my classroom, andwe rarely used them.
Which was such a shame.
And then when I moved to LosAngeles and taught fifth grade
there, we were a one-to-oneschool, and the joys of that are
(04:54):
just amazing.
It was just really wonderful to,you know, get the students used
to typing on the computer, usingdifferent software to submit
their assignments.
Getting creative—as creative asyou can get—with Google Slides.
You know, to show off what theyknow.
And stuff like that.
That's all I had, though.
And you know, when Itransitioned to 9 Dots I was
(05:18):
like,"Sure, why not?
Let's give a shot." And Ilearned a lot.
It was really interesting, yeah.
Eric Cross (05:26):
And so now at Code.org you are...well, so my
journey with Code.org, I've beenin the classroom for eight
years.
Still in the classroom asof...an hour ago, I was there.
And I use Code.org, andI feel like I've checked it
periodically, and I feel likeit's evolved over the gaps.
And I've seen it.
It's become more robust in thethings that they offer, over the
(05:50):
years I've been an educator.
Just to kind of...could you givea thumbnail sketch?
Like, what is Code.org?
Who's it for?
Who's the target audience?
What resources are there?
Aryanna Trejo (06:00):
Yeah.
So it's for everyone.
It is a nonprofit that providescurriculum and training and a
platform for teachers andstudents.
We provide curriculum for Kthrough 12.
It's completely free.
And it comes with lesson plans,slideshows, all that.
(06:21):
We focus specifically onunderrepresented groups.
So we have targeted measures forBlack students, for Native
American students, for studentswho identify as female.
That's a huge part of ourmission.
But we're really working toexpand access to computer
science to as many students aswe can.
Eric Cross (06:41):
One of the things I'm hearing in your story is you
were teaching in Compton; youwere in Bronx, New York.
One of the reasons why I gotinto the classroom is because of
educators, and the impact theymade on me in exposing me to
science and technologies I'dnever had access to.
And that intentionality, thatyou're going about it...are
(07:02):
there...not just the code, buthow you bring that across to
different groups...are therestrategies, or are there ways to
connect this idea of coding todiverse groups and diverse
audiences?
Or is it kind of, the curriculumapplies for everyone?
(07:23):
'Cause in science, when I'mteaching, I'm always trying to
make what I'm doing relevant tothe backgrounds of my students.
Aryanna Trejo (07:28):
Sure.
Eric Cross (07:28):
So I'm teaching biology, and I'm trying to make
this kind of connection.
Sometimes it's more organic;sometimes it feels kind of
forced.
Because it's just not always anice fit.
But it sounds like Code.org isreally about inclusion.
And in the numbers that I'veseen for representation, in
especially computer sciencesoftware engineers, the groups
(07:50):
that you're focusing on are notnecessarily represented in the
professional workforce.
At least disproportionately.
Aryanna Trejo (07:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, that's correct.
Eric Cross (07:57):
And so how do you go about being intentional about
reaching groups that we don'tsee in, you know, the Silicon
Valley software engineers?
How do you start that?
Like, at a young age, do youlook for specific schools in
specific areas to say,"We aregoing to bring this to the
(08:20):
school.
We're going out to thesepopulations of the cities"?
Because we're just notseeing...you know, on the map,
we're not seeing anybody reallydoing anything with coding here.
Or we're not seeing the numberscome out of these areas, out of
these cities, of students whoare going into STEM or going
into computer science fields.
Aryanna Trejo (08:41):
Yeah.
I don't necessarily work on therecruitment side of it, is the
issue, in my position.
But I do work on theprofessional learning, that is
brought out to teachers.
And we have a huge focus onequity throughout the workshops
that we create from K–12.
It's something we're reallypassionate about.
(09:01):
We definitely aim to prepareteachers to teach computer
science.
That's a huge part of it.
Knowing the content, but alsothinking through,"What does
recruitment look like at yourschool to make sure that the
demographics of your classroommatch the demographics of your
entire school?" Also, thinkingthrough,"How can we make sure
that female students feelincluded in your classroom?
(09:22):
How can we make sure that we are, giving students creativity to
think about, or we are settingstudents up to be creative and
think about the problems thatare in their community, and how
they can use computer science tosolve them, or at least work
towards them?"
Eric Cross (09:39):
So solving real-world problems and that
inclusion aspect...are therethings like...you were saying
"female or students who identifyas female"...are there things
that teachers can do to ensurethat they're being more
inclusive?
Or to recruit, or encourage morefemale students to take part?
(09:59):
One of the things I was thinkingof, that I've seen, is I've seen
coding kind of camps.
Aryanna Trejo (10:06):
Sure.
Eric Cross (10:08):
That were specifically for a female
audience.
And that seemed to help withrecruitment.
Is that something that you seeon your side?
Aryanna Trejo (10:16):
That's not something that we set up, no.
But the curriculum that I workwith is CS Principles.
And it's offered as an AdvancedPlacement course, as well as an
AP class.
So that's a curriculum that'sdesigned for students who are in
grades 10 through 12.
And so at that point, we canreally talk to teachers and ask
(10:36):
them what the recruitmentstrategy is.
But in terms of strategies thatteachers can use to recruit
those students...I mean, I'veheard over and over from lots of
different teachers who identifyas female that they didn't think
that computer science was forthem, until they saw a role
model in that position.
And so just being a role modelfor those students is really
(11:00):
wonderful.
Eric Cross (11:00):
And I see it too, with—like, we do"Draw a
Scientist" activity, which islike a popular science thing—
Aryanna Trejo (11:05):
Sure, yeah, I'm familiar.
Eric Cross (11:05):
But it's the same thing, right?
Like, it fleshes out.
My students don't drawthemselves as scientists.
They draw what they perceive,based on what television says.
I imagine with computer science,it's probably really similar,
when you think about"What's asoftware engineer look like?" Do
students tend to drawthemselves?
Or is it even a mystery?
Because I don't even know what asoftware engineer looks like.
Aryanna Trejo (11:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, one of the things we loveto do with our professional
learning workshops is talk aboutunderstanding yourself, your
identities, how they show up inthe classroom as biases.
And, you know, things likestereotype threat.
We see that as really importantto understand, and think
(11:51):
through, and consider, beforeyou step into the classroom.
So that you're not, you know,coddling certain groups of
students because you don'tbelieve that they are able to be
successful in computer science.
Holding all the students to thesame expectations and believing
that they can succeed.
And computer science, I think alot of the times people have
this conception of it being thisutopian, bias-less, technocratic
(12:17):
field.
When in reality, everything hasbias.
And people talk aboutalgorithmic bias and facial
recognition, but also the peoplewho created computers and
computer languages have theirown bias that comes through.
And I think it's reallyimportant to show students that.
(12:37):
So that they can, one, know whatthey're working with, and two,
make sure that they can createproducts that reduce that bias.
Eric Cross (12:50):
It's like...it's not objective, just because we're
creating software.
Like, once it gets to a point ofbeing so sophisticated...I
think, like, AI software, right?
With facial recognition?
And we're seeing more and morearticles come out about, you
know, predicting trends based onhistorical data.
Aryanna Trejo (13:12):
Sure.
Eric Cross (13:13):
But then, the trends and things that they're seeing
tend to target things that havehappened in the past.
But it also doesn't take intoconsideration a lot of other
factors that can lead to certaingroups or populations being
identified.
And I've seen some articleslately about how your code is
really just representation ofwhat you put into it.
(13:34):
And like you just said, yourbias—if you have that, conscious
or unconscious—you're gonna putthat into your code.
And the input is gonna be animpact, is gonna impact the
output.
Aryanna Trejo (13:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
Or even just—and I'm ashamed tosay this,'cause this is an idea
that came to me just recently,through an article that I
read—but computers themselveshave bias.
The hardware assumes that youhave vision, that you can see
the screen, that you areable-bodied, that you can use
your hands to work the keyboard,the mouse, et cetera, and that
(14:05):
you don't have to use assistivetechnology.
You know, there are small thingslike that, where we think that
technology, like I said, is thisutopian, futuristic
science...but there are biasesthroughout.
Eric Cross (14:19):
You're absolutely right.
I've never even—I've never evenconsidered that.
Even though I do use assistivetech, and figure it out, I've
never thought from the groundup, the process is built for an
able-bodied, sighted, hearingperson.
Aryanna Trejo (14:31):
Exactly.
Eric Cross (14:32):
To be able to engage with the hardware.
And then these other things,these tertiary things that we
kind of add on, so that you cando this, but it's not designed
from the ground up for peoplewho are, you know, different
audiences, physically.
So I'm glad you brought that up,though.
(14:52):
Now I've seen—and I haven't donethis—but I know Hour of Code is
a big thing.
And this is something that'songoing.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat Hour of Code is?
I know it's, it's a big thingfor the classroom teachers.
Aryanna Trejo (15:08):
Yeah.
So Hour of Code is reallyexciting, and it's just
blossomed from something smallto something tremendous.
This year is gonna be the 10thHour of Code.
So what it is, is it happensduring CS Education Week in
December, during GraceHopper's—or to honor Grace
Hopper's birthday.
She was a computer scientist andNavy Admiral.
(15:30):
And basically the aim of it isto get as many students on the
computer doing an hour of code,and demystify what coding is.
You know, to do seed-planting.
To show teachers that this issomething that you can
facilitate for your students.
And also to show students like,"Hey, computer science is
something you can absolutely do.
(15:50):
Not just for an hour, but moreif you want." So, yeah.
Now it's worldwide, and it'sreally exciting.
Eric Cross (15:58):
That's awesome.
And I think about teachers and Istill hear the apologetic—when
I'm helping teachers in theclassroom with education
technology—the self-deprecating"I'm a dinosaur; I'm not good
with tech," which is never true.
Like, they're better than theyeven realize.
And I feel like sometimesthere's still a stigma, too.
(16:21):
It's like The Simpsons'Comic Book Store Guy.
The condescending tech supportperson—
Aryanna Trejo (16:27):
Sure.
Eric Cross (16:28):
—who has that tone.
And so I feel like some peoplehave been so negatively impacted
by that person.
So I know when I'm helpingpeople, I actually try to go
full-spectrum the other side.
But I'm thinking about teachers'barrier to entry.
Sometimes code is like,"Whoa."And I don't teach computer
science.
(16:48):
Do you see those barriers toentry, or at least the
perception of them?
And then, what's the reality forlike someone listening, and
going,"I'm a fourth gradeteacher," or"I'm a humanities
teacher in ninth grade." What'sthe perception that you see,
versus reality, with theteachers that you train?
Is it much more accessible thanwe think?
Or is there a level ofsophistication that you have to
(17:09):
have coming into it?
Aryanna Trejo (17:10):
No, not at all.
I know computer science, andthat says a lot! You
know, I know my own corner ofcomputer science.
And you know, that's me beingself-deprecating, too.
But I think learning computerscience has helped me in so many
different ways that I wasn'texpecting.
I recently took the GRE in hopesof, you know, getting back into
(17:34):
grad school.
And I think just the way thatcomputer science teaches you to
search for bugs in your code, orerrors, and kind of tirelessly
look at a problem from multipledifferent angles, I was able to
carry that into the math that Iwas doing.
And I noticed just a hugedifference in the way that I
(17:56):
approached it, and the way thatI was open to it.
But you asked a great question,in regards to the barriers to
technology.
In my position at 9 Dots, I wasworking directly with teachers
to lead professional developmentwith them.
Sometimes it would be a fullday; sometimes it would be an
hour after school.
(18:16):
And the one thing that I alwayshad in my back pocket that was
really useful is that I wouldhear teachers saying things
like,"Well, I just can't docoding; this is too hard for me;
the time has passed." And Iwould ask them,"Would you say
that to your student about mathor English?" And they would
always sheepishly go,"No." AndI'd say,"Well, be as kind to
(18:38):
yourself as you would be to yourstudent." You know, it takes
some patience and nobody's gonnaget it perfect 100 percent of
the time.
Have I banged my head againstthe wall trying to solve one
tiny little syntax error in mycode?
Absolutely! But it feelsabsolutely phenomenal to fix
that.
(18:58):
And I was an English major inundergrad, and I had never done
computer science before.
So it's something that becomesreally satisfying.
Eric Cross (19:07):
Yeah, I imagine.
I had someone—a trainer or apresenter—one time bring up the
fact that our students rarelyget to see us learn in real time
.
Aryanna Trejo (19:19):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (19:19):
So we don't get to ever really model failure.
I mean, unless we're in aclassroom situation< laughs> in
our failures, with classroommanagement.
Then they see it, they see it!But they don't get to see us
model learning failure.
And I don't mean likefailure—and yes, I know,"first
attempt is learning," and"nosuch thing as failure"—that's
not what I'm talking about.
But just when we're notsuccessful with our code, and
(19:39):
then we experience real-timefrustration.
Aryanna Trejo (19:42):
Yep.
Eric Cross (19:42):
And they said that is actually a great learning
experience for your students towatch you go through productive
struggle.
And that was really liberatingfor me.
Because now I'm in theclassroom, and I'm trying to go
through it with my students, andthe beautiful thing was, they
started helping me.
We were all trying to solve theproblem.
And then we h ad this authenticproblem-solving experience.
I think it was like a Scratchprogram, where w e w ere trying
(20:03):
to solve, trying to embed itsomewhere, or something.
And then, in the background o fthe class:"Mr.
Cross! I got it! I figured itout!" And it was this really
neat bonding experience.
And I felt that—your ears getred, and you get hot,'cause
you're not—
Aryanna Trejo (20:19):
Oh yeah.
Eric Cross (20:20):
You don't know it! And you're in front of 36 kids!
And I said,"OK, I need to tellthem how I feel."
Aryanna Trejo (20:25):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (20:26):
So I said,"Now I feel really frustrated." Like,"I
want to go through this, andhere's my thoughts."'Cause I
knew that it would be helpful ifthey saw and would hear my
thoughts.
So I just did a quickthink-aloud and I said,"In my
head, I want to justquit," I said,"But I realize
that this is the part where mylearning's happening.
So I just want you all to hearwhat's going on in my brain."
(20:47):
And now I feel like when I'mdoing coding with my students,
and it's just basic coding, Ifeel much more comfortable,
like, not knowing.
But I needed someone to releaseme from that"I have to be the
expert in everything" to do it.
Aryanna Trejo (21:06):
And teachers are used to being the experts.
Right?
And they should be.
And coding is just such adifferent landscape.
But I think once you kind ofgive over to the power of
tinkering, I think it's reallygratifying.
I love being able to...you canrevise a sentence, and then read
your paragraph back to yourselfin English, and say,"OK, I get
(21:27):
it." But there's something sogratifying about changing a line
of code or a block and thenbeing able to hit play and watch
your program come to life, andsay,"Hmm, that's not quite what
I wanted.
Let's try something different."
Eric Cross (21:39):
I love your connection to tinkering.
'Cause—I had never thought aboutit—'cause I love tinkering with
my hands.
But I always think aboutphysical things.
But coding is exactly that.
It's tinkering.
Aryanna Trejo (21:47):
It's exactly that.
Eric Cross (21:47):
That's exactly what it is.
Aryanna Trejo (21:49):
And a lot of it is, for me, especially when I'm
trying something new, it'sguess-and-check.
It's like,"OK, that didn't work.
What if I add a semicolon here?
Will it finally work?
Or what if I add a'for' loop?
Will this get me what I want?"And it's wonderful because you
have that with students as well.
Like, you have that record oftheir thinking, and you can ask
(22:13):
them to go step-by-step and tellyou, you know,"First, I added
this, because I wanted theprogram to do this," and so on
and so forth.
And so you have that record, butyou can always get rid of it.
Students often wanna getcompletely get rid of it.
That's something that I'venoticed a lot as I've taught
computer science.
But, once you can get them totarget the specific parts of the
(22:35):
program, tinker with that, andcontinue, that's a really
wonderful learning space.
There was also something yousaid about modeling failure.
I love the fact that in computerscience you can model failure
for your students.
You said to your students,"I'mgetting frustrated." I love
(22:55):
that, because I never got thatin math.
Nobody ever showed me what itwas like to be frustrated with
graphing a parabola.
Right?
Like, my math teachers werealways like,"Doot, doot, doot,
here you go, you're done!" And I would get so
frustrated, because it didn'tcome that easily to me.
And I think there's two parts tothat.
(23:17):
So there's modeling the learningand the thinking and the
productive struggle, but alsothere's the identity of being a
computer scientist and modelingwhat that looks like.
So for me, when I get reallyfrustrated with a program, I
walk away.
I take five minutes.
I take a deep breath.
I say,"I'm not gonna think aboutit in these five minutes." And I
come back to it.
(23:38):
And I think once you startteaching computer science, you
can facilitate that forstudents.
And there's so many differentstrategies that they can pick
up.
They can pick up rubber ducking,which is where they pick up a
rubber duck or a similar object,and they talk to it as if they
were a partner and talk throughtheir code.
(23:59):
And oftentimes, as you're rubberducking, you're gonna find that
error, because you're explainingit to someone who's a stand-in
for a novice.
And rubber ducking is awell-known strategy for computer
scientists who make it theircareer.
You know, there's pairprogramming.
Some students love pairprogramming; some students hate
it.
But the students start to buildthis identity about how they
(24:24):
problem-solve.
And how they approach failure.
And I just love that.
Eric Cross (24:31):
I'm writing this down.
Because the rubber-duckingstrategy, I love.
I just imagine my seventhgraders, a bunch of 13-year-olds
with, like, rubber on the desk.
And not necessarily in coding,but I was thinking in my science
class.
And they're working through achallenge, and they're all
looking at this duck, andthey're talking to it.
But I just love the the idea ofexternalizing your thought
process and talking through ityourself so that you can
(24:53):
hopefully arrive at aconclusion.
But it's such a great practice,and this is something that's
been around for a long time,apparently.
So.
Aryanna Trejo (24:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a real thing.
And you know, you can go low-fi.
It doesn't have to be a rubberduck.
You can have students talk totheir pencils or their imaginary
friends.
That's not the issue; the issueis, you know, talking to
somebody.
Eric Cross (25:10):
I know you support teachers.
But I just wanted to...I wasjust curious about your typical
day, what that's like.
And then what you do, how yousupport'em.
Aryanna Trejo (25:15):
So, at my previous job at 9 Dots, I was in
there with the teachers in theclassrooms.
I was coaching our internalstaff who went out to co-teach
with teachers.
And I loved that.
And I had such a great impact ona local scale.
But now at Code.org, I have amuch broader impact.
But I don't get to interfacewith—that's such a tech-y
(25:38):
word!—I don't get to interactwith—
Eric Cross (25:42):
You work at Code.org! You get to—
Aryanna Trejo (25:42):
I know! But I'm a teacher at heart, forever,
right?
That's my identity that I forgedwhen I was 22 years old.
And a typical day looks likeopening up my computer, taking a
look at my calendar.
I often have meetings to talkabout, different things that
we're doing to support ourfacilitators who go out to our
(26:05):
teachers and lead theirworkshops for them.
I recently worked on a productthat was designed for CS
principles, teachers, to onboardto the course if they weren't
able to get into an in-personworkshop.
And it's completely self-paced,so it gives teachers an on-ramp
(26:26):
into the course.
And now I'm working on somein-person workshop agendas.
So I feel really wonderful thatmy work is going out to
thousands of teachers.
But at the same time, I really,really miss talking to teachers.
Because that's something thatenergizes me so much.
Eric Cross (26:46):
When should students start learning computer science?
I feel like we see it in thiskind of narrow lane.
Like, this is computer scienceif you make an app.
Can it be more than that?
As far as like the benefit ofcomputer science?
And—I guess two-partquestion—when should students,
one, start being exposed to it?
And then two, what are some o fthe benefits beyond just,"I w
(27:07):
anna just make an app"?
Aryanna Trejo (27:08):
I taught coding to kindergartners.
It can start as early as you asyou want it to.
And it doesn't necessarily needto be on the computer.
A lot of students that I workedwith didn't have computers at
home, were interacting withcomputers for the first time.
And that's a huge barrier, ofcourse, to a lot of teachers.
(27:29):
But there are so many unpluggedlessons that you can do to start
to start to have students thinkabout algorithms, which is just
a series of steps to complete tosolve a problem.
As long as a student can use acomputer, I think they can do
computer science.
There are products out therelike codeSpark, where
students—and Code.org has theseproducts too—where students are
(27:52):
moving an avatar around a board,kind of like a quadrant to...you
know, they feed the directionsto a computer and then the
computer enacts it for them.
And with that, they can learnalgorithms.
You know, that is computerscience.
And a lot of people don't see itthat way, but it really is.
And it starts to set students upfor more complex thinking as
they move on.
Eric Cross (28:13):
One of the biggest underserved communities,
geographically, are students inrural areas.
Aryanna Trejo (28:20):
Yep.
Eric Cross (28:21):
They can be reservations; they can be places
just not an urban area.
Is there a way to serve ourcommunities of students and
bring these skills in anunplugged way?
Aryanna Trejo (28:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you typed in"unpluggedcomputer science lessons" to
Google, you'll have a ton ofhits.
And there are so many studentsout there—not just in rural
areas.
But there's incarceratedstudents.
It hurts my heart to even saythose words, but in urban areas
too.
Like in my classroom, where Ionly had four desktop computers.
(28:52):
Access is a real struggle.
And there's things, like I said,instead of moving an avatar
around a grid on the computer, Iused to have an actual mat that
I would take out to mykindergarten classrooms, lay it
out, and it would have a grid onit.
And we'd have one of thestudents act as the avatar and
the rest of the students wouldgive them directions to get to a
(29:14):
different point on the grid.
And there, you're building analgorithm or just a series of
steps.
Like I said, it's not some fancyterm to solve a problem.
And there's multiple ways tosolve that problem, too.
And I think investigating thatcan be a really good way to
stretch those lessons.
Eric Cross (29:32):
It almost sounds like an oxymoron, but this
low-tech computer sciencestrategy.
Develop these skills and thentransfer that once you have
access to the tools.
Aryanna Trejo (29:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I think it's a good way forstudents who need kinesthetic
means to start to understandsomething, or just different
learning styles, to starttransferring that over.
Eric Cross (29:53):
I probably have students in the classroom where
those kinesthetic moving thingswould help be a great way—or
WILL be a great way—for them tolearn the principles and the
fundamentals of coding.
Instead of only giving theoption to just do the computer,
actually giving them somechoice.
Or giving them a way to be ableto manipulate things.
We're still in the system ofeducation that's still very
(30:15):
siloed.
It's been the same way for ahundred years.
We got math and then we gotscience and we got English.
I'm wondering, how can a teacherfit this into their daily
lessons?
And then, do you have anyexperiences or stories or things
that you've seen, just reallycreative ways that you've seen
teachers incorporate this?
Outside the norm of,"This is acomputer science class; we're
(30:36):
just gonna code." But have youseen it branch out?
In the trainings that you'vedone?
Aryanna Trejo (30:40):
I've seen examples of that.
I've seen a teacher use Scratchto demonstrate different
climates of California, and showthe different climates.
This past year for Hour of Code,my friend Amy—the one who helped
me move to 9 Dots and at Code.
org—she created this incredibletutorial called Poetry Bot.
(31:01):
And it was a way to get studentsto match the mood of the poem to
some of the elements that werehappening in the stage.
So they would have differentbackgrounds show up at different
parts of the poem.
When the words would show up,they would have different
sprites show up.
They would have, sometimes,sounds.
(31:22):
Or the text would show up withdifferent animations.
So there are cross-curricularopportunities everywhere, if you
can be creative enough to findthem, or if you beg, borrow,
steal from other educators whoare doing this incredible work
out there.
Eric Cross (31:36):
Yeah.
I say this all the time, but I'man educational DJ, not an MC.
Aryanna Trejo (31:44):
Oh yeah.
Eric Cross (31:45):
So MCs write their lyrics and DJs remix with things
that other people have done.
Aryanna Trejo (31:48):
Absolutely.
Eric Cross (31:48):
I was like, I'm a DJ.
I was like, all day.
Sometimes I'll write a lyric,once or twice, but most of the
time I'm remixing things.
So teachers, if you've been outthere and you got an awesome
interdisciplinary thing, oryou've incorporated coding and
it's something that'straditionally not seen, please
send it to us.
Share it with us.
Aryanna Trejo (32:03):
Yeah.
And there are so many differentplaces where you can find that.
We have a forum for Code.org,but there's also CSTA, the
Computer Science TeachersAssociation.
You can join your local chapterand get to know other computer
science teachers out there.
Eric Cross (32:19):
I guess...to wrap up, I've been using Scratch
programming, the MIT website.
My students do the basicanimated name, CS First, stuff.
But over the years, I've noticedthat my students are coming in
with a higher level ofsophistication in Scratch to
(32:40):
where now thedifferentiation...some of my
students are just doing verybasic...and then I have other
students who've created full-onvideo games with complex...like,
you look at their Scratch pageand it's just an amazing amount
of blocks and integrations andthings that they have.
Is there anything on Code.orgthat could be a next step?
(33:01):
That takes them beyond, maybelike the visuals?
And if so, what would be a goodnext step, to take students to
advance them to anotherplatform?
There's so many coding languagesout there, I feel like.
Or I might not even be thinkingabout that the right way.
Aryanna Trejo (33:20):
No, I think you are.
You know, we have threedifferent curricula out on our
website right now.
We have CS Fundamentals, whichis probably more in line with
what you're talking about.
We have a free CS Discoveriescurriculum, and that is designed
for, grades, I believe, 6through 10.
And that would be a really goodentry point, for both teachers
(33:43):
and for students.
Eric Cross (33:44):
There's a lot of new stuff that I hadn't seen yet, a
few years ago.
Aryanna Trejo (33:49):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (33:49):
So I was really excited.
Aryanna Trejo (33:50):
One thing that I do know is that CS Discovery has
just added an artificialintelligence slash
machine-learning unit, that youcan just pick up and give to
your students.
You don't have to go in orderwith CS Discoveries, like you do
with CS Principles.
And I've gone through some ofthose lessons.
They a re really rad.
And I would've loved to havelearned that when I was in
(34:11):
middle school or high school.
So yeah, we're constantlythinking of how we can make
things one, relevant to ourstudents, and t wo relevant to
what's going on in t he world.
Eric Cross (34:20):
So would I be overselling it if I said,"If you
go through this, you'll be ableto create an AI or a neural net
to do all your homework"?
Aryanna Trejo (34:26):
You would be overselling it.
Eric Cross (34:27):
I would be?
OK.
So what I'll do is, I'll waituntil the end of the school
year, and then introduce it, andthen by the time they've
realized it's not true, they'llbe eighth graders.
Aryanna Trejo (34:35):
There you go.
Good old bait-and-switch.
Eric Cross (34:37):
You're amazing.
Thank you for serving teachers,and for being part of such a
great organization that puts outgreat stuff.
So much free curricula forteachers to be able to use.
Especially nowadays we hunt andscour the internet for those
types of things.
And to be able to bring computerliteracy into the classroom, and
(35:01):
with your focus of servingcommunities of underrepresented
groups, it feels good to knowthat not only is it high-quality
material, but it's also tryingto raise everyone up.
Because ultimately when we havemore people trying to solve a
common problem, we come up withbetter solutions.
(35:24):
And I was talking to somebodywho was a materials engineer
somewhere in Europe, and he saidone of the things about the
U.S., As he was critiquing me onthis flight, critiquing the
U.S., He said,"One of the thingsabout your country is that you
have a heterogeneous group ofpeople who, in a group, when you
(35:46):
have multiple perspectivesattacking a problem, you come up
with more novel solutions." Hesays,"That's one of the great
things, is that there's notnecessarily just a hive mind."
And I think that that's one ofthe great things.
We uplift different communities,and we uplift women, people of
color, people who, havebackgrounds that parents didn't
(36:08):
go to college but have theseamazing qualities and strengths.
And we put everybody focusing onthe same issue.
We come up with novel solutionsthat we wouldn't have come up
with if only select groups weretrying to look at it and solve
it.
And so—.
Aryanna Trejo (36:22):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (36:23):
And we couldn't do that without organizations like
yours, that help empowerteachers.
So.
Aryanna Trejo (36:27):
Yeah! You really said it.
Eric Cross (36:29):
You're coming to my classroom when you're back in
San Diego?
Aryanna Trejo (36:31):
Yeah! I totally will.
Yeah.
Let's make it happen.
Eric Cross (36:34):
Last question.
If you think back in yourschooling, your own schooling, K
through college, is there aperson or a teacher that had a
big impact on you?
Or a learning experience thathad an impact on you?
And it could be, you know,positive or negative.
But something that impacted you,even to this day, that stands
out to you, that you remember?
Aryanna Trejo (36:56):
This is a big diversion from the topics that
we're talking about.
But in grades 10 through 12, mydrama teacher, Mr.
Byler, who I still talk with,was such a huge impression on
me.
Really wonderful.
And I couldn't tell you theteaching moves that he did that
were wonderful.
I don't know much about hismanagement.
(37:18):
But I can tell you that he gaveme space to be confident, and
grow into myself, through dramaproductions.
They were high schoolproductions, so they weren't
amazing.
But I just really came intomyself in high school, because I
had the confidence to get onstage.
And he was just such a wonderfulmentor to all of us.
So, props to Mr.
(37:38):
Byler.
Eric Cross (37:39):
Shout out to Mr.
Byler for creating space forAryanna to fly! Thanks for
making time, after your workday,to talk with us and to share
Code.org with teachers.
Aryanna Trejo (37:54):
Of course.
Happy to.
Eric Cross (37:59):
Thanks so much for joining me and Aryanna today.
We want to hear more about you.
If you have any great lessons orways to keep student engagement
high, please email us atstem@amplify.com.
Make sure to click subscribewherever you listen to podcasts.
And join our brand new Facebookgroup, Science Connections: The
(38:20):
Community for some extracontent.
I would hear teachers saying things like,
"Well, I just can't do coding;this is too hard for me; the
time has passed." And I wouldask them,"Would you say that to
your student about math orEnglish?" And they would always
sheepishly go,"No." And I'd say,"Well, be as kind to yourself as
you would be to your student."
Eric Cross (00:19):
Welcome to Science Connections.
I'm your host, Eric Cross.
My guest today is Aryanna Trejo.
Aryanna is a member of theprofessional learning team at
Code.org.
Before joining Code.org, Aryannaled computer science
professional development forelementary school teachers, and
served as an instructional coachfor new educators.
She also taught fourth and fifthgrade in both New York City and
(00:42):
in Los Angeles.
In this episode, we discussAryanna's journey to Code.org,
where she helps educatorsconnect coding to real life, how
to use a rubber duck to solveproblems, and how coding and
computer science principles canbe taught to students in areas
without access to theinternet...or even a computer.
I hope you enjoy my conversationwith Aryanna Trejo.
(01:07):
So I was born and raised here,and I saw that you went to UC
San Diego.
Aryanna Trejo (01:11):
I did, I did.
I actually just put a depositdown on an apartment in
University Heights,'cause I'mmoving back.
Eric Cross (01:16):
You're coming back?
Aryanna Trejo (01:17):
I'm coming back.
Yeah.
Eric Cross (01:19):
So if you need a classroom to visit....
Aryanna Trejo (01:21):
I would love to do more classroom observations!
Eric Cross (01:24):
Are we doing this?
Let's do—we're making thishappen.
Aryanna Trejo (01:26):
We are.
Yeah.
So I'll be there.
I'm moving there in April.
I actually grew up in OrangeCounty too, so I'm like a very
diehard SoCal person.
Eric Cross (01:35):
So I feel like I know the answer to,
hopefully—Tupac or Biggie?
'Cause you're on the East Coast,and you're on the West Coast.
Aryanna Trejo (01:40):
Yeah.
I like Tupac, but I have moreBiggie songs committed to
memory.
Which is not a lot.
I have"Juicy" and"Hypnotized"memorized.
Eric Cross (01:53):
All right.
So you're just memorizing, andyou have the Biggie songs
memorized, but not the Tupacones.
Aryanna Trejo (01:58):
No, but I do love Tupac songs.
You know, it's like, Biggie hasthe flow, but Tupac has the
lyrics.
Nobody's—they both havesomething really amazing about
them.
Eric Cross (02:06):
You know, I can respect that you broke it down
into both of their strengths.
Aryanna Trejo (02:11):
Thanks for buttering me up before this
interview.
And not....
Eric Cross (02:15):
Aryanna Trejo (02:16):
Huh?
We already started?
Eric Cross (02:17):
We're already started.
Yeah.
We're already into this.
Aryanna Trejo (02:19):
We're into it.
Eric Cross (02:21):
You were in the classroom, fourth and fifth
grade, and you were doing TFA.
Aryanna Trejo (02:26):
I did.
I did Teach For America.
I was 2012, New York City Corps.
Right after graduation.
'Cause I graduated UC San Diegoin 2012.
So graduation was on June 17th,and I touched down at JFK on
June 19th.
Eric Cross (02:40):
Even though I wasn't in TFA, I know a lot of the
fellows that are in it.
And there's just some phenomenalteachers in there.
How long were you doingelementary school when you were
teaching?
Aryanna Trejo (02:49):
Yeah, I taught for—well, I did, three years of
teaching fourth grade.
Then there happened to be aninstructional coach opening in
my fourth year.
I took that, did someinstructional coaching within
the same network, and then Imoved back to LA and I taught
fifth grade for a year.
Eric Cross (03:11):
OK.
And what was it like now?
Did you go to Code.org rightafter the classroom?
Aryanna Trejo (03:17):
No, I didn't.
No.
I transitioned after teachingfifth grade for a year in
downtown Los Angeles, in thePico-Union neighborhood.
I ended up getting this emailout of the blue from someone who
had actually found me throughthe Teach for America job site.
'Cause I was hitting thepavement; I was really looking
to transition out of theclassroom.
And she invited me to interviewwith this company called 9 Dots.
(03:43):
And they taught computer scienceto kids K–6 throughout Los
Angeles and Compton.
And I was like,"Sure, noproblem.
Let's do it." So I interviewed,I got the job, and yeah, that's
how I transitioned to 9 Dots.
And then after almost four yearsthere, I transitioned to
Code.org, with the same person.
Actually, she moved over toCode.org first, and then she
(04:06):
helped me get this job.
Eric Cross (04:07):
Oh, that's happened a lot—like, that relationship
kinda carries over.
Aryanna Trejo (04:11):
Yeah.
We're meant to be coworkers.
Eric Cross (04:13):
Yeah.
Are you still?
Is she still there?
Are you both still together?
Aryanna Trejo (04:17):
Yeah, we're on the same team and it's nice.
I saw her last night for HappyHour, with another coworker
who's in LA.
So we're tight.
And she's a wonderful, wonderfulmentor to me.
Eric Cross (04:28):
That's great.
Did you have computer-sciencebackground, when you were doing
elementary school teaching?
Did you have—
Aryanna Trejo (04:34):
No.
When I was teaching in New YorkCity, I had like four desktop
computers in my classroom, andwe rarely used them.
Which was such a shame.
And then when I moved to LosAngeles and taught fifth grade
there, we were a one-to-oneschool, and the joys of that are
(04:54):
just amazing.
It was just really wonderful to,you know, get the students used
to typing on the computer, usingdifferent software to submit
their assignments.
Getting creative—as creative asyou can get—with Google Slides.
You know, to show off what theyknow.
And stuff like that.
That's all I had, though.
And you know, when Itransitioned to 9 Dots I was
(05:18):
like,"Sure, why not?
Let's give a shot." And Ilearned a lot.
It was really interesting, yeah.
Eric Cross (05:26):
And so now at Code.org you are...well, so my
journey with Code.org, I've beenin the classroom for eight
years.
Still in the classroom asof...an hour ago, I was there.
periodically, and I feel likeit's evolved over the gaps.
And I've seen it.
It's become more robust in thethings that they offer, over the
(05:50):
years I've been an educator.
Just to kind of...could you givea thumbnail sketch?
Like, what is Code.org?
Who's it for?
Who's the target audience?
What resources are there?
Aryanna Trejo (06:00):
Yeah.
So it's for everyone.
It is a nonprofit that providescurriculum and training and a
platform for teachers andstudents.
We provide curriculum for Kthrough 12.
It's completely free.
And it comes with lesson plans,slideshows, all that.
(06:21):
We focus specifically onunderrepresented groups.
So we have targeted measures forBlack students, for Native
American students, for studentswho identify as female.
That's a huge part of ourmission.
But we're really working toexpand access to computer
science to as many students aswe can.
Eric Cross (06:41):
One of the things I'm hearing in your story is you
were teaching in Compton; youwere in Bronx, New York.
One of the reasons why I gotinto the classroom is because of
educators, and the impact theymade on me in exposing me to
science and technologies I'dnever had access to.
And that intentionality, thatyou're going about it...are
(07:02):
there...not just the code, buthow you bring that across to
different groups...are therestrategies, or are there ways to
connect this idea of coding todiverse groups and diverse
audiences?
Or is it kind of, the curriculumapplies for everyone?
(07:23):
'Cause in science, when I'mteaching, I'm always trying to
make what I'm doing relevant tothe backgrounds of my students.
Aryanna Trejo (07:28):
Sure.
Eric Cross (07:28):
So I'm teaching biology, and I'm trying to make
this kind of connection.
Sometimes it's more organic;sometimes it feels kind of
forced.
Because it's just not always anice fit.
But it sounds like Code.org isreally about inclusion.
And in the numbers that I'veseen for representation, in
especially computer sciencesoftware engineers, the groups
(07:50):
that you're focusing on are notnecessarily represented in the
professional workforce.
At least disproportionately.
Aryanna Trejo (07:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, that's correct.
Eric Cross (07:57):
And so how do you go about being intentional about
reaching groups that we don'tsee in, you know, the Silicon
Valley software engineers?
How do you start that?
Like, at a young age, do youlook for specific schools in
specific areas to say,"We aregoing to bring this to the
(08:20):
school.
We're going out to thesepopulations of the cities"?
Because we're just notseeing...you know, on the map,
we're not seeing anybody reallydoing anything with coding here.
Or we're not seeing the numberscome out of these areas, out of
these cities, of students whoare going into STEM or going
into computer science fields.
Aryanna Trejo (08:41):
Yeah.
I don't necessarily work on therecruitment side of it, is the
issue, in my position.
But I do work on theprofessional learning, that is
brought out to teachers.
And we have a huge focus onequity throughout the workshops
that we create from K–12.
It's something we're reallypassionate about.
(09:01):
We definitely aim to prepareteachers to teach computer
science.
That's a huge part of it.
Knowing the content, but alsothinking through,"What does
recruitment look like at yourschool to make sure that the
demographics of your classroommatch the demographics of your
entire school?" Also, thinkingthrough,"How can we make sure
that female students feelincluded in your classroom?
(09:22):
How can we make sure that we are, giving students creativity to
think about, or we are settingstudents up to be creative and
think about the problems thatare in their community, and how
they can use computer science tosolve them, or at least work
towards them?"
Eric Cross (09:39):
So solving real-world problems and that
inclusion aspect...are therethings like...you were saying
"female or students who identifyas female"...are there things
that teachers can do to ensurethat they're being more
inclusive?
Or to recruit, or encourage morefemale students to take part?
(09:59):
One of the things I was thinkingof, that I've seen, is I've seen
coding kind of camps.
Aryanna Trejo (10:06):
Sure.
Eric Cross (10:08):
That were specifically for a female
audience.
And that seemed to help withrecruitment.
Is that something that you seeon your side?
Aryanna Trejo (10:16):
That's not something that we set up, no.
But the curriculum that I workwith is CS Principles.
And it's offered as an AdvancedPlacement course, as well as an
AP class.
So that's a curriculum that'sdesigned for students who are in
grades 10 through 12.
And so at that point, we canreally talk to teachers and ask
(10:36):
them what the recruitmentstrategy is.
But in terms of strategies thatteachers can use to recruit
those students...I mean, I'veheard over and over from lots of
different teachers who identifyas female that they didn't think
that computer science was forthem, until they saw a role
model in that position.
And so just being a role modelfor those students is really
(11:00):
wonderful.
Eric Cross (11:00):
And I see it too, with—like, we do"Draw a
Scientist" activity, which islike a popular science thing—
Aryanna Trejo (11:05):
Sure, yeah, I'm familiar.
Eric Cross (11:05):
But it's the same thing, right?
Like, it fleshes out.
My students don't drawthemselves as scientists.
They draw what they perceive,based on what television says.
I imagine with computer science,it's probably really similar,
when you think about"What's asoftware engineer look like?" Do
students tend to drawthemselves?
Or is it even a mystery?
Because I don't even know what asoftware engineer looks like.
Aryanna Trejo (11:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, one of the things we loveto do with our professional
learning workshops is talk aboutunderstanding yourself, your
identities, how they show up inthe classroom as biases.
And, you know, things likestereotype threat.
We see that as really importantto understand, and think
(11:51):
through, and consider, beforeyou step into the classroom.
So that you're not, you know,coddling certain groups of
students because you don'tbelieve that they are able to be
successful in computer science.
Holding all the students to thesame expectations and believing
that they can succeed.
And computer science, I think alot of the times people have
this conception of it being thisutopian, bias-less, technocratic
(12:17):
field.
When in reality, everything hasbias.
And people talk aboutalgorithmic bias and facial
recognition, but also the peoplewho created computers and
computer languages have theirown bias that comes through.
And I think it's reallyimportant to show students that.
(12:37):
So that they can, one, know whatthey're working with, and two,
make sure that they can createproducts that reduce that bias.
Eric Cross (12:50):
It's like...it's not objective, just because we're
creating software.
Like, once it gets to a point ofbeing so sophisticated...I
think, like, AI software, right?
With facial recognition?
And we're seeing more and morearticles come out about, you
know, predicting trends based onhistorical data.
Aryanna Trejo (13:12):
Sure.
Eric Cross (13:13):
But then, the trends and things that they're seeing
tend to target things that havehappened in the past.
But it also doesn't take intoconsideration a lot of other
factors that can lead to certaingroups or populations being
identified.
And I've seen some articleslately about how your code is
really just representation ofwhat you put into it.
(13:34):
And like you just said, yourbias—if you have that, conscious
or unconscious—you're gonna putthat into your code.
And the input is gonna be animpact, is gonna impact the
output.
Aryanna Trejo (13:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
Or even just—and I'm ashamed tosay this,'cause this is an idea
that came to me just recently,through an article that I
read—but computers themselveshave bias.
The hardware assumes that youhave vision, that you can see
the screen, that you areable-bodied, that you can use
your hands to work the keyboard,the mouse, et cetera, and that
(14:05):
you don't have to use assistivetechnology.
You know, there are small thingslike that, where we think that
technology, like I said, is thisutopian, futuristic
science...but there are biasesthroughout.
Eric Cross (14:19):
You're absolutely right.
I've never even—I've never evenconsidered that.
Even though I do use assistivetech, and figure it out, I've
never thought from the groundup, the process is built for an
able-bodied, sighted, hearingperson.
Aryanna Trejo (14:31):
Exactly.
Eric Cross (14:32):
To be able to engage with the hardware.
And then these other things,these tertiary things that we
kind of add on, so that you cando this, but it's not designed
from the ground up for peoplewho are, you know, different
audiences, physically.
So I'm glad you brought that up,though.
(14:52):
Now I've seen—and I haven't donethis—but I know Hour of Code is
a big thing.
And this is something that'songoing.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat Hour of Code is?
I know it's, it's a big thingfor the classroom teachers.
Aryanna Trejo (15:08):
Yeah.
So Hour of Code is reallyexciting, and it's just
blossomed from something smallto something tremendous.
This year is gonna be the 10thHour of Code.
So what it is, is it happensduring CS Education Week in
December, during GraceHopper's—or to honor Grace
Hopper's birthday.
She was a computer scientist andNavy Admiral.
(15:30):
And basically the aim of it isto get as many students on the
computer doing an hour of code,and demystify what coding is.
You know, to do seed-planting.
To show teachers that this issomething that you can
facilitate for your students.
And also to show students like,"Hey, computer science is
something you can absolutely do.
(15:50):
Not just for an hour, but moreif you want." So, yeah.
Now it's worldwide, and it'sreally exciting.
Eric Cross (15:58):
That's awesome.
And I think about teachers and Istill hear the apologetic—when
I'm helping teachers in theclassroom with education
technology—the self-deprecating"I'm a dinosaur; I'm not good
with tech," which is never true.
Like, they're better than theyeven realize.
And I feel like sometimesthere's still a stigma, too.
(16:21):
It's like
The condescending tech supportperson—
Aryanna Trejo (16:27):
Sure.
Eric Cross (16:28):
—who has that tone.
And so I feel like some peoplehave been so negatively impacted
by that person.
So I know when I'm helpingpeople, I actually try to go
full-spectrum the other side.
But I'm thinking about teachers'barrier to entry.
Sometimes code is like,"Whoa."And I don't teach computer
science.
(16:48):
Do you see those barriers toentry, or at least the
perception of them?
And then, what's the reality forlike someone listening, and
going,"I'm a fourth gradeteacher," or"I'm a humanities
teacher in ninth grade." What'sthe perception that you see,
versus reality, with theteachers that you train?
Is it much more accessible thanwe think?
Or is there a level ofsophistication that you have to
(17:09):
have coming into it?
Aryanna Trejo (17:10):
No, not at all.
I know computer science, andthat says a lot!
know, I know my own corner ofcomputer science.
And you know, that's me beingself-deprecating, too.
But I think learning computerscience has helped me in so many
different ways that I wasn'texpecting.
I recently took the GRE in hopesof, you know, getting back into
(17:34):
grad school.
And I think just the way thatcomputer science teaches you to
search for bugs in your code, orerrors, and kind of tirelessly
look at a problem from multipledifferent angles, I was able to
carry that into the math that Iwas doing.
And I noticed just a hugedifference in the way that I
(17:56):
approached it, and the way thatI was open to it.
But you asked a great question,in regards to the barriers to
technology.
In my position at 9 Dots, I wasworking directly with teachers
to lead professional developmentwith them.
Sometimes it would be a fullday; sometimes it would be an
hour after school.
(18:16):
And the one thing that I alwayshad in my back pocket that was
really useful is that I wouldhear teachers saying things
like,"Well, I just can't docoding; this is too hard for me;
the time has passed." And Iwould ask them,"Would you say
that to your student about mathor English?" And they would
always sheepishly go,"No." AndI'd say,"Well, be as kind to
(18:38):
yourself as you would be to yourstudent." You know, it takes
some patience and nobody's gonnaget it perfect 100 percent of
the time.
Have I banged my head againstthe wall trying to solve one
tiny little syntax error in mycode?
Absolutely! But it feelsabsolutely phenomenal to fix
that.
(18:58):
And I was an English major inundergrad, and I had never done
computer science before.
So it's something that becomesreally satisfying.
Eric Cross (19:07):
Yeah, I imagine.
I had someone—a trainer or apresenter—one time bring up the
fact that our students rarelyget to see us learn in real time
.
Aryanna Trejo (19:19):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (19:19):
So we don't get to ever really model failure.
I mean, unless we're in aclassroom situation< laughs> in
our failures, with classroommanagement.
Then they see it, they see it!But they don't get to see us
model learning failure.
And I don't mean likefailure—and yes, I know,"first
attempt is learning," and"nosuch thing as failure"—that's
not what I'm talking about.
But just when we're notsuccessful with our code, and
(19:39):
then we experience real-timefrustration.
Aryanna Trejo (19:42):
Yep.
Eric Cross (19:42):
And they said that is actually a great learning
experience for your students towatch you go through productive
struggle.
And that was really liberatingfor me.
Because now I'm in theclassroom, and I'm trying to go
through it with my students, andthe beautiful thing was, they
started helping me.
We were all trying to solve theproblem.
And then we h ad this authenticproblem-solving experience.
I think it was like a Scratchprogram, where w e w ere trying
(20:03):
to solve, trying to embed itsomewhere, or something.
And then, in the background o fthe class:"Mr.
Cross! I got it! I figured itout!" And it was this really
neat bonding experience.
And I felt that—your ears getred, and you get hot,'cause
you're not—
Aryanna Trejo (20:19):
Oh yeah.
Eric Cross (20:20):
You don't know it! And you're in front of 36 kids!
And I said,"OK, I need to tellthem how I feel."
Aryanna Trejo (20:25):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (20:26):
So I said,"Now I feel really frustrated." Like,"I
want to go through this, andhere's my thoughts."'Cause I
knew that it would be helpful ifthey saw and would hear my
thoughts.
So I just did a quickthink-aloud and I said,"In my
head,
that this is the part where mylearning's happening.
So I just want you all to hearwhat's going on in my brain."
(20:47):
And now I feel like when I'mdoing coding with my students,
and it's just basic coding, Ifeel much more comfortable,
like, not knowing.
But I needed someone to releaseme from that"I have to be the
expert in everything" to do it.
Aryanna Trejo (21:06):
And teachers are used to being the experts.
Right?
And they should be.
And coding is just such adifferent landscape.
But I think once you kind ofgive over to the power of
tinkering, I think it's reallygratifying.
I love being able to...you canrevise a sentence, and then read
your paragraph back to yourselfin English, and say,"OK, I get
(21:27):
it." But there's something sogratifying about changing a line
of code or a block and thenbeing able to hit play and watch
your program come to life, andsay,"Hmm, that's not quite what
I wanted.
Let's try something different."
Eric Cross (21:39):
I love your connection to tinkering.
'Cause—I had never thought aboutit—'cause I love tinkering with
my hands.
But I always think aboutphysical things.
But coding is exactly that.
It's tinkering.
Aryanna Trejo (21:47):
It's exactly that.
Eric Cross (21:47):
That's exactly what it is.
Aryanna Trejo (21:49):
And a lot of it is, for me, especially when I'm
trying something new, it'sguess-and-check.
It's like,"OK, that didn't work.
What if I add a semicolon here?
Will it finally work?
Or what if I add a'for' loop?
Will this get me what I want?"And it's wonderful because you
have that with students as well.
Like, you have that record oftheir thinking, and you can ask
(22:13):
them to go step-by-step and tellyou, you know,"First, I added
this, because I wanted theprogram to do this," and so on
and so forth.
And so you have that record, butyou can always get rid of it.
Students often wanna getcompletely get rid of it.
That's something that I'venoticed a lot as I've taught
computer science.
But, once you can get them totarget the specific parts of the
(22:35):
program, tinker with that, andcontinue, that's a really
wonderful learning space.
There was also something yousaid about modeling failure.
I love the fact that in computerscience you can model failure
for your students.
You said to your students,"I'mgetting frustrated." I love
(22:55):
that, because I never got thatin math.
Nobody ever showed me what itwas like to be frustrated with
graphing a parabola.
Right?
Like, my math teachers werealways like,"Doot, doot, doot,
here you go, you're done!"
frustrated, because it didn'tcome that easily to me.
And I think there's two parts tothat.
(23:17):
So there's modeling the learningand the thinking and the
productive struggle, but alsothere's the identity of being a
computer scientist and modelingwhat that looks like.
So for me, when I get reallyfrustrated with a program, I
walk away.
I take five minutes.
I take a deep breath.
I say,"I'm not gonna think aboutit in these five minutes." And I
come back to it.
(23:38):
And I think once you startteaching computer science, you
can facilitate that forstudents.
And there's so many differentstrategies that they can pick
up.
They can pick up rubber ducking,which is where they pick up a
rubber duck or a similar object,and they talk to it as if they
were a partner and talk throughtheir code.
(23:59):
And oftentimes, as you're rubberducking, you're gonna find that
error, because you're explainingit to someone who's a stand-in
for a novice.
And rubber ducking is awell-known strategy for computer
scientists who make it theircareer.
You know, there's pairprogramming.
Some students love pairprogramming; some students hate
it.
But the students start to buildthis identity about how they
(24:24):
problem-solve.
And how they approach failure.
And I just love that.
Eric Cross (24:31):
I'm writing this down.
Because the rubber-duckingstrategy, I love.
I just imagine my seventhgraders, a bunch of 13-year-olds
with, like, rubber on the desk.
And not necessarily in coding,but I was thinking in my science
class.
And they're working through achallenge, and they're all
looking at this duck, andthey're talking to it.
But I just love the the idea ofexternalizing your thought
process and talking through ityourself so that you can
(24:53):
hopefully arrive at aconclusion.
But it's such a great practice,and this is something that's
been around for a long time,apparently.
So.
Aryanna Trejo (24:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a real thing.
And you know, you can go low-fi.
It doesn't have to be a rubberduck.
You can have students talk totheir pencils or their imaginary
friends.
That's not the issue; the issueis, you know, talking to
somebody.
Eric Cross (25:10):
I know you support teachers.
But I just wanted to...I wasjust curious about your typical
day, what that's like.
And then what you do, how yousupport'em.
Aryanna Trejo (25:15):
So, at my previous job at 9 Dots, I was in
there with the teachers in theclassrooms.
I was coaching our internalstaff who went out to co-teach
with teachers.
And I loved that.
And I had such a great impact ona local scale.
But now at Code.org, I have amuch broader impact.
But I don't get to interfacewith—that's such a tech-y
(25:38):
word!—I don't get to interactwith—
Eric Cross (25:42):
You work at Code.org! You get to—
Aryanna Trejo (25:42):
I know! But I'm a teacher at heart, forever,
right?
That's my identity that I forgedwhen I was 22 years old.
And a typical day looks likeopening up my computer, taking a
look at my calendar.
I often have meetings to talkabout, different things that
we're doing to support ourfacilitators who go out to our
(26:05):
teachers and lead theirworkshops for them.
I recently worked on a productthat was designed for CS
principles, teachers, to onboardto the course if they weren't
able to get into an in-personworkshop.
And it's completely self-paced,so it gives teachers an on-ramp
(26:26):
into the course.
And now I'm working on somein-person workshop agendas.
So I feel really wonderful thatmy work is going out to
thousands of teachers.
But at the same time, I really,really miss talking to teachers.
Because that's something thatenergizes me so much.
Eric Cross (26:46):
When should students start learning computer science?
I feel like we see it in thiskind of narrow lane.
Like, this is computer scienceif you make an app.
Can it be more than that?
As far as like the benefit ofcomputer science?
And—I guess two-partquestion—when should students,
one, start being exposed to it?
And then two, what are some o fthe benefits beyond just,"I w
(27:07):
anna just make an app"?
Aryanna Trejo (27:08):
I taught coding to kindergartners.
It can start as early as you asyou want it to.
And it doesn't necessarily needto be on the computer.
A lot of students that I workedwith didn't have computers at
home, were interacting withcomputers for the first time.
And that's a huge barrier, ofcourse, to a lot of teachers.
(27:29):
But there are so many unpluggedlessons that you can do to start
to start to have students thinkabout algorithms, which is just
a series of steps to complete tosolve a problem.
As long as a student can use acomputer, I think they can do
computer science.
There are products out therelike codeSpark, where
students—and Code.org has theseproducts too—where students are
(27:52):
moving an avatar around a board,kind of like a quadrant to...you
know, they feed the directionsto a computer and then the
computer enacts it for them.
And with that, they can learnalgorithms.
You know, that is computerscience.
And a lot of people don't see itthat way, but it really is.
And it starts to set students upfor more complex thinking as
they move on.
Eric Cross (28:13):
One of the biggest underserved communities,
geographically, are students inrural areas.
Aryanna Trejo (28:20):
Yep.
Eric Cross (28:21):
They can be reservations; they can be places
just not an urban area.
Is there a way to serve ourcommunities of students and
bring these skills in anunplugged way?
Aryanna Trejo (28:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you typed in"unpluggedcomputer science lessons" to
Google, you'll have a ton ofhits.
And there are so many studentsout there—not just in rural
areas.
But there's incarceratedstudents.
It hurts my heart to even saythose words, but in urban areas
too.
Like in my classroom, where Ionly had four desktop computers.
(28:52):
Access is a real struggle.
And there's things, like I said,instead of moving an avatar
around a grid on the computer, Iused to have an actual mat that
I would take out to mykindergarten classrooms, lay it
out, and it would have a grid onit.
And we'd have one of thestudents act as the avatar and
the rest of the students wouldgive them directions to get to a
(29:14):
different point on the grid.
And there, you're building analgorithm or just a series of
steps.
Like I said, it's not some fancyterm to solve a problem.
And there's multiple ways tosolve that problem, too.
And I think investigating thatcan be a really good way to
stretch those lessons.
Eric Cross (29:32):
It almost sounds like an oxymoron, but this
low-tech computer sciencestrategy.
Develop these skills and thentransfer that once you have
access to the tools.
Aryanna Trejo (29:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I think it's a good way forstudents who need kinesthetic
means to start to understandsomething, or just different
learning styles, to starttransferring that over.
Eric Cross (29:53):
I probably have students in the classroom where
those kinesthetic moving thingswould help be a great way—or
WILL be a great way—for them tolearn the principles and the
fundamentals of coding.
Instead of only giving theoption to just do the computer,
actually giving them somechoice.
Or giving them a way to be ableto manipulate things.
We're still in the system ofeducation that's still very
(30:15):
siloed.
It's been the same way for ahundred years.
We got math and then we gotscience and we got English.
I'm wondering, how can a teacherfit this into their daily
lessons?
And then, do you have anyexperiences or stories or things
that you've seen, just reallycreative ways that you've seen
teachers incorporate this?
Outside the norm of,"This is acomputer science class; we're
(30:36):
just gonna code." But have youseen it branch out?
In the trainings that you'vedone?
Aryanna Trejo (30:40):
I've seen examples of that.
I've seen a teacher use Scratchto demonstrate different
climates of California, and showthe different climates.
This past year for Hour of Code,my friend Amy—the one who helped
me move to 9 Dots and at Code.
org—she created this incredibletutorial called Poetry Bot.
(31:01):
And it was a way to get studentsto match the mood of the poem to
some of the elements that werehappening in the stage.
So they would have differentbackgrounds show up at different
parts of the poem.
When the words would show up,they would have different
sprites show up.
They would have, sometimes,sounds.
(31:22):
Or the text would show up withdifferent animations.
So there are cross-curricularopportunities everywhere, if you
can be creative enough to findthem, or if you beg, borrow,
steal from other educators whoare doing this incredible work
out there.
Eric Cross (31:36):
Yeah.
I say this all the time, but I'man educational DJ, not an MC.
Aryanna Trejo (31:44):
Oh yeah.
Eric Cross (31:45):
So MCs write their lyrics and DJs remix with things
that other people have done.
Aryanna Trejo (31:48):
Absolutely.
Eric Cross (31:48):
I was like, I'm a DJ.
I was like, all day.
Sometimes I'll write a lyric,once or twice, but most of the
time I'm remixing things.
So teachers, if you've been outthere and you got an awesome
interdisciplinary thing, oryou've incorporated coding and
it's something that'straditionally not seen, please
send it to us.
Share it with us.
Aryanna Trejo (32:03):
Yeah.
And there are so many differentplaces where you can find that.
We have a forum for Code.org,but there's also CSTA, the
Computer Science TeachersAssociation.
You can join your local chapterand get to know other computer
science teachers out there.
Eric Cross (32:19):
I guess...to wrap up, I've been using Scratch
programming, the MIT website.
My students do the basicanimated name, CS First, stuff.
But over the years, I've noticedthat my students are coming in
with a higher level ofsophistication in Scratch to
(32:40):
where now thedifferentiation...some of my
students are just doing verybasic...and then I have other
students who've created full-onvideo games with complex...like,
you look at their Scratch pageand it's just an amazing amount
of blocks and integrations andthings that they have.
Is there anything on Code.orgthat could be a next step?
(33:01):
That takes them beyond, maybelike the visuals?
And if so, what would be a goodnext step, to take students to
advance them to anotherplatform?
There's so many coding languagesout there, I feel like.
Or I might not even be thinkingabout that the right way.
Aryanna Trejo (33:20):
No, I think you are.
You know, we have threedifferent curricula out on our
website right now.
We have CS Fundamentals, whichis probably more in line with
what you're talking about.
We have a free CS Discoveriescurriculum, and that is designed
for, grades, I believe, 6through 10.
And that would be a really goodentry point, for both teachers
(33:43):
and for students.
Eric Cross (33:44):
There's a lot of new stuff that I hadn't seen yet, a
few years ago.
Aryanna Trejo (33:49):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (33:49):
So I was really excited.
Aryanna Trejo (33:50):
One thing that I do know is that CS Discovery has
just added an artificialintelligence slash
machine-learning unit, that youcan just pick up and give to
your students.
You don't have to go in orderwith CS Discoveries, like you do
with CS Principles.
And I've gone through some ofthose lessons.
They a re really rad.
And I would've loved to havelearned that when I was in
(34:11):
middle school or high school.
So yeah, we're constantlythinking of how we can make
things one, relevant to ourstudents, and t wo relevant to
what's going on in t he world.
Eric Cross (34:20):
So would I be overselling it if I said,"If you
go through this, you'll be ableto create an AI or a neural net
to do all your homework"?
Aryanna Trejo (34:26):
You would be overselling it.
Eric Cross (34:27):
I would be?
OK.
So what I'll do is, I'll waituntil the end of the school
year, and then introduce it, andthen by the time they've
realized it's not true, they'llbe eighth graders.
Aryanna Trejo (34:35):
There you go.
Good old bait-and-switch.
Eric Cross (34:37):
You're amazing.
Thank you for serving teachers,and for being part of such a
great organization that puts outgreat stuff.
So much free curricula forteachers to be able to use.
Especially nowadays we hunt andscour the internet for those
types of things.
And to be able to bring computerliteracy into the classroom, and
(35:01):
with your focus of servingcommunities of underrepresented
groups, it feels good to knowthat not only is it high-quality
material, but it's also tryingto raise everyone up.
Because ultimately when we havemore people trying to solve a
common problem, we come up withbetter solutions.
(35:24):
And I was talking to somebodywho was a materials engineer
somewhere in Europe, and he saidone of the things about the
U.S., As he was critiquing me onthis flight, critiquing the
U.S., He said,"One of the thingsabout your country is that you
have a heterogeneous group ofpeople who, in a group, when you
(35:46):
have multiple perspectivesattacking a problem, you come up
with more novel solutions." Hesays,"That's one of the great
things, is that there's notnecessarily just a hive mind."
And I think that that's one ofthe great things.
We uplift different communities,and we uplift women, people of
color, people who, havebackgrounds that parents didn't
(36:08):
go to college but have theseamazing qualities and strengths.
And we put everybody focusing onthe same issue.
We come up with novel solutionsthat we wouldn't have come up
with if only select groups weretrying to look at it and solve
it.
And so—.
Aryanna Trejo (36:22):
Yeah.
Eric Cross (36:23):
And we couldn't do that without organizations like
yours, that help empowerteachers.
So.
Aryanna Trejo (36:27):
Yeah! You really said it.
Eric Cross (36:29):
You're coming to my classroom when you're back in
San Diego?
Aryanna Trejo (36:31):
Yeah! I totally will.
Yeah.
Let's make it happen.
Eric Cross (36:34):
Last question.
If you think back in yourschooling, your own schooling, K
through college, is there aperson or a teacher that had a
big impact on you?
Or a learning experience thathad an impact on you?
And it could be, you know,positive or negative.
But something that impacted you,even to this day, that stands
out to you, that you remember?
Aryanna Trejo (36:56):
This is a big diversion from the topics that
we're talking about.
But in grades 10 through 12, mydrama teacher, Mr.
Byler, who I still talk with,was such a huge impression on
me.
Really wonderful.
And I couldn't tell you theteaching moves that he did that
were wonderful.
I don't know much about hismanagement.
(37:18):
But I can tell you that he gaveme space to be confident, and
grow into myself, through dramaproductions.
They were high schoolproductions, so they weren't
amazing.
But I just really came intomyself in high school, because I
had the confidence to get onstage.
And he was just such a wonderfulmentor to all of us.
So, props to Mr.
(37:38):
Byler.
Eric Cross (37:39):
Shout out to Mr.
Byler for creating space forAryanna to fly! Thanks for
making time, after your workday,to talk with us and to share
Code.org with teachers.
Aryanna Trejo (37:54):
Of course.
Happy to.
Eric Cross (37:59):
Thanks so much for joining me and Aryanna today.
We want to hear more about you.
If you have any great lessons orways to keep student engagement
high, please email us atstem@amplify.com.
Make sure to click subscribewherever you listen to podcasts.
And join our brand new Facebookgroup, Science Connections: The
(38:20):
Community for some extracontent.
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