S2-04: Gamification in the K–8 classroom: Fabian Hofmann

In this episode, Eric Cross sits down with his colleague and friend Fabian Hofmann to talk through gamification in the K–8 classroom. They discuss Fabian's experience teaching outside of the United States, and the differences in classrooms outside of the country. Fabian explains how to integrate game mechanisms in the classroom, standard-based grading, and shifting student thinking about learning by forming strong relationships. Fabian also shares how he created a new STEM course at his school revolving around his own passion for Star Wars.

Check out the Rebel Teacher Alliance Podcast, hosted by Fabian!

Find Fabian on Twitter!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
In Mr.
Hoffman's class, I get to earnpoints and I get to be a Jedi.
I can suspend my disbelief andI'm learning history, but at the
same time, I'm traveling throughthe galaxy.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to Science Connections.
I'm your host Eric Cross.
My guest today is FabianHoffman.
Fabian is a middle school IBeducator, currently teaching
seventh grade multimedia designand history at Albert Einstein
Academy's middle school here inSan Diego, California.
He also hosts the podcast RebelTeacher Alliance, a podcast
dedicated to encouraging andsupporting teachers to rethink

(00:36):
student engagement.
Fabian's one of the mostinnovative teachers that I've
ever met.
His use of technology andgamification makes learning fun
and accessible for our students.
And I have firsthand experiencewith these students because we
teach on the same team and haveworked alongside each other
during my entire career as ateacher.
In this episode, we discussgamification of the classroom,

(00:56):
how he approaches grading froman innovator's mindset and his
newest STEM class immersivedesign, where his students are
working with former Disneyimagineers to completely
renovate their classroom into aninteractive Star Wars themed
learn environment.
And now please enjoy myconversation with my good friend
and colleague, Fabian Hoffman.

(01:18):
We've worked together for howmany years now?
How many years have you been atEinstein?

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, I started when you started, like after you were
student teaching, so 2014.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Okay, so it's been a while.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah.
And then I took two years offand I went to Hawaii.
I couldn't handle the pressure,and then I came back.
So we've worked together for sixyears, but known each other for
eight.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
What's your origin story?
We're gonna talk about yourorigin story.
I told

Speaker 1 (01:42):
You.
All right, cool.
Right.
So when I was a little boy, no,

Speaker 2 (01:46):
, this podcast is not that long.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
So no, I started out, um, teaching in 2009.
I started student teaching inGermany, um, and, uh, was
teaching history and English.
Uh, did this two year studentteaching program there.
And then, uh, when I was done,my wife and I, she's American,
we got married and we decided tomove to the States.
And then I started teaching, um,at a German cultural center

(02:12):
called the Gutta Institute inSan Francisco.
We lived in the Bay Area.
And from there, after a year wemoved down to San Diego.
I started subbing.
I worked for a year at High TechHigh.
Um, I taught humanities there.
And then, um, after that year, Iended up at Einstein teaching
German because that was what isavailable.

(02:32):
I didn't want to teach German.
That wasn't like on the top ofmy list, but it made sense
because I had taught German inSan Francisco and it kind of was
like, Well, I can do that, Iguess.
And then, yeah, and then I wentback to, we went to Hawaii for a
couple of years and then, uh, Icame back here to start teaching
history.
So I've taught like a millionthings essentially.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
And then during that time, what's your evolution been
like in the classroom, kind oflike your view of education and,
and how does that play out inyour day to day with kids?

Speaker 1 (02:59):
So when I started teaching here in the States, I
noticed that it's verydifferent.
Um, technology had was muchfurther along here than it was
in Germany.
So when I got here and we hadlike an iPad card, it helped
setting up the iPad cards.
And I worked with theChromebooks and I was like,
holy, holy crap, that's, this isso cool.
Like kids can like actually dothings with this technology.

(03:23):
And then, I mean, I lovetechnology.
I've had an iPad when it cameout and stuff like that.
And so I was like, Oh, so howabout we use this in our
classroom?
And so I always moved, or Imoved very quickly to having
students create on the iPad.
And um, at first it was like,Oh, we use the Apple apps and
stuff.
And then I went to an ed techteacher summit here in San Diego

(03:46):
and my eyes were like open to,Oh my God, there's so much more
than just the Apple apps.
And ever since then I was like,Okay, we're gonna use this,
We're gonna do that.
It's just crazy stuff that, thatI thought was cool and that
students really seemed to enjoy.
Like, because it wasn't like atypical language class, it was
more like, Well, what can we doto create and how can we somehow

(04:11):
still use the language, but weare learning coding at the same
time, or we are creatingsomething in 3D at the same time
.
Or like, I was always trying tomake it like to have like two
angles, the language angle,obviously.
And then also like thetechnology angle.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
What was it that like kept you kind of pushing?
Cause I remember the beginningin the class craft days to where
you are now.
Yeah, I feel like it's like,it's like you're, you're like
light years ahead of where youstarted.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
So you, you were actually the one who showed me
Classcraft, which is like agamification portal, um, kind of
off the shelf thing that youcan, you can, uh, subscribe to.
It has some free features andit's like a gamification
platform where you can, wherestudents can create characters
and then these characters go onadventures that's like their
avatar and they get expexperience points in, in the
classroom game and stuffhappens.

(04:58):
You can create like adventurepaths for them.
So you, if you have like a, anassignment that you want
students to do that hasdifferent steps, so that could
be an adventure path.
That's what I liked aboutClasscraft is like this idea of
like, okay, we're taking a gameand applying it, but it wasn't
enough for me.
And so I started like developingmy own classroom game.

(05:22):
Um, I did some reading, I metonline with, uh, John Mehan, um,
worked with him.
I read the books by Michael, thebook by Michael Matara explored
a pirate.
And so it just broadened mywhole world to, or just opened
the world of gamification to me.
You

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Present on gamification, you mentor other
teachers on gamification.
You host a podcast or you talkabout it.
But for those people who haven'tdone it or gotten into it or
maybe have a perception of it,maybe that's not quite accurate.
Can you talk a little bit aboutlike what gamification is and
what it's not?

Speaker 1 (05:54):
Okay.
So the, the biggest difference,we all know like game-based
learning because we all do it.
We use Quizlet, we use quizzes,we use gim Kit, Blue Kit,
Jeopardy, anything like that.
Those are game-based.
Uh, that's game-based learning.
So using a game to facilitatelearning, which is great.
I love game-based learning too.

(06:14):
But the difference is withgamification in the pure
definition of gamification isthat you're using gay mechanics
and elements and apply them to anon-game setting or a couple of
smart educators who are like,Why don't we just do that in our
classroom?
And so we, we borrow theseelements, these mechanics, these

(06:35):
game mechanics, like gettingexperience points and applying
them to the classroom.
So anything that students do,they earn points.
So they turn in an assignmentthat gets you a hundred points,
they go and do something extrafor the class, they get 50
points, whatever it is, whateveryour value is.
That's one aspect, like aleaderboard, virtual money, uh,
stuff like that that just inreality is not necessary, but

(07:00):
you're putting it somewherewhere it doesn't exist.
And all of a sudden studentshave this, this weird shift in
their, in their view where it'slike, Well, school is school,
but in Mr.
Hoffman's class, I get to earnpoints and I get to be a Jedi
and I can suspend my disbeliefand I'm learning history, but at

(07:21):
the same time I'm, I'm, I'm liketraveling through the galaxy.
And it's just amazing how thatshift happens just because we're
changing the language a littlebit.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah.
You seem to have like tappedinto something that is already
kind of in that zeitgeistculture thing.
We're gaming and it, it appealsto, I know it appeals to our
students regardless of how theyfeel about even the subject
that's being taught, the factthat they're immersed into this
environment where they're takingon this character role and
they're part of this biggernarrative.
And you've so dynamicallyconstructed this whole storyline

(07:52):
and these experiences, andthey're learning experiences,
like they're learning, butthey're enjoying it like in a
different way.
But I wanted to ask you aboutsomething that I really admire
that you do, and it's, it's howyou grade.
And I remember the first timeyou said this, we were in a
parent teacher conference andwe're all talking on Zoom with
these parents and we're allsharing our spiel.
And you go, I don't grade kids.

(08:12):
They grade themselves.
Can you talk a little bit aboutyour, your conferencing with
students?
Yeah.
The rubric you use like thatthat I I've really been paying
close attention to lately.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
So, um, when I, when I was working in Hawaii, I
noticed I was teaching Englishand grading papers in English is
really not fun.
Like, that is like my leastfavorite thing.
Some teachers are like, Yeah,it's grading awesome.
I can read stuff.
For me it's like, yes, I like toread stuff, but I, and it was
the same in German class.
I gave them feedback.
Sometimes I would use oralfeedback, I would, um, like

(08:47):
record stuff and for them, andthey would listen to it and then
they would work on it.
And so I noticed like when I'mgiving them feedback and it's
oral feedback, they're moreinclined to actually work on the
stuff that I was critiquingversus when I sat down and I
wrote something, they wouldnever read it.
Or some would, and most of themwould not.
And so I was like, this, thissucks.

(09:09):
And I encountered this bookcalled Hacking Assessment with,
because it's such a waste oftime, right?
You, you, you spend so much timebecause you wanna do the due
diligence.
And for those few kids whoactually do care, that benefits
them.
But I want this to benefiteverybody.
And so I read this book calledHacking Assessment, um, by star,
Sex Dying Sex Team.

(09:29):
And she talks about how she putthe, the onus of grading into
the student hands essentially.
And so she did standard,standard based grading and
essentially said, You know what?
Here's the thing.
Uh, I am not going to grade youanymore.
You are going to get a rubricthat we are going to dissect and

(09:52):
explain and make sure that youunderstand.
And then you sit down and you,you give yourself a grade based
on this rubric.
And I was like, Wow, what thatis.
Like I can do that.
And the cool thing about thisbook is that she, she covers all
the, all the roadblocks that weas teachers have.
And she explains, like she givesexamples on what we can do to

(10:12):
convince parents to convinceadmin, to convince the
community, convince otherteachers like why what we're
doing is much, much better for astudent than the previous system
is.
If you think about it, like whena student comes into school,
they start at a hundred, um,they start the year at a hundred
and all they're doing is justlose points mm-hmm.

(10:33):
and they're justtrying to keep up.
Right?
Right.
And it kind of flips this on itshead because not only with the
gamification, I'm changing the,the name of the game literally,
but I'm also with now with UNgrading, I'm giving them the
responsibility and theaccountability to really look at
their stuff and really becritical about how they're

(10:53):
doing.
And I taught like normal in myfirst year in Hawaii when I was
teaching English, by me gradingeverything and turning it and
giving it to them.
And I used peer grade and I didall that kind of stuff.
But in the end, they, I wasalways the one responsible for
the grade.
But then I started to do theupgrading move and I just

(11:13):
started to conference with kidsand started giving them
feedback, help with help ofgamification because there's
like a bunch of rubrics you canuse to make it more fun.
But all of a sudden, like kidsthat in the year before would've
failed my class in Englishbecause they were English,
English learners.
They were, um, just not into it.
They didn't care as much.
All of a sudden that flippedcompletely.

(11:34):
I did the exact same contentagain.
We had to write an essay and allof a sudden the essays were all
like up there because we satdown, we talked about it, we
went through this reviewprocess, gave them feedback.
In the end, they could say, Hey,I want this grade.
And then I still have the lastessay.
I would say, say, Yep, soundsgood.
Or if you wanna get a, uh, an Aon this or whatever it was a

(11:58):
four, um, then here are thethings you still need to do.
And because I did that, all of asudden the students are like,
Oh, that's all I need to do.
Mm-hmm.
.
And then they did it and turn itin, and all of a sudden they got
a four mm-hmm.
.
It's, it's amazing how that the,the conferencing with students,
how that shifted their attitudemm-hmm.
and I got to knowmy students way better than I

(12:19):
ever

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Had.
Yeah.
That's, that's one of the thingsthat I've noticed.
And I, and I watch you get somuch more face time with
students at having conferencesthan I do, I find myself
grading.
And, you know, at our school,it's mastery based instruction,
so students can retakeassessments, but you're
absolutely right.
I give a grade, they, they get ascore and some of'em score
lower, but in their minds it'slike, okay, I'm done with that.

(12:40):
And even though they can retakeit, such a small percentage
actually do, but the informationthat I give them in the feedback
is often not read, but you'resitting down and having a
conversation and reallylistening and they're, there's
so much more of a connectionthat you have.
I just think it's so rich.
But the question I have now ishow do you make the time for
those, those conversations withthose kids in your class?

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, it's definitely a learning curve.
Like the, the first year I didit, it was horrible.
Like, it cost so muchtime.
They, because kids came, becausewhen it was time to grading,
because I had not figured it outyet, I had not streamlined it.
And I'm still learning, I'mstill trying to figure this out
and do it even better.
But the idea is that you dosomething, you check in with me

(13:22):
really quick.
That doesn't have to be like afull on conference.
It's a you, they, I walk aroundor I call them up and say, Hey,
I saw you working on this.
How did, how are you doingthere?
How many, like, let's say I usea rubric that gives them like
crystals for different parts.
Like they write theintroduction, they write a
bibliography, whatever, so I canbring them up and say, Hey, how
is the bibliography looking?
And they're like, Oh yeah, I'mmissing, Like I only have like

(13:44):
one or two sources.
And then we say, Okay, so rightnow you would get two crystals
out of three because you havesomething, when you come back,
you get all the crystals.
And so that's a gameified aspectagain, right?
They're coming back to get morecrystals, not because they wanna
do better necessarily, butbecause they're like, Hey, I
wanna get those crystals becauseit gives me points in the game.
They are very good about likegrading themselves and kind of

(14:05):
like, they're really hard onthemselves sometimes too.
And I have students who arelike, Yeah, they are.
Um, well, how can you make surethat people don't just give
themselves an eight?
And I'm like, because there's asystem in place that, that does
not happen.
Like there is a rubric and ifthey cannot back up what they
want, then it's not gonnahappen.
They can write an eight all daylong.
I'm still the person entering itinto the great book.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
And let me, let me premise this for listeners who
don't teach at IB schools, whichis probably like most of most
people, Yeah.
So ib, we teach zero througheight on a rubric system.
And seven, eight is kind of likethe, a kind of quote Yeah.
In a quote unquote.
I know people, IB people areprobably cringing when I say
that, but, you know, whenyou transfer it to like a high
school?
Yeah.
Seven, eight would be thehighest score, you know, 4, 5, 6
.

(14:47):
So when we say eight, we'retalking about the highest score.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
And so it's, it's really interesting because I can
call them out on stuff andthey're, and they're, it's a one
on one conversation, right?
And if, if, especially if theyturn something in that is not
great, and they give themselveslike a, like, I don't know, like
a c let's say, or a four orwhatever it is, um, and they're
like, and you're happy withthat.

(15:10):
And then they're standing thereand they're like, like, no
.
And all of a sudden there's aconversation where it's like,
and then I can be veryintentionally like, Hey man, I
know you can do better.
I I would not, I'm not gonnaaccept this.
I'm gonna push you to, to turnthis in again.
And most of them actually sitdown and do more.
It's a, it's a process.
It takes a while.

(15:31):
It's not pretty in thebeginning, but the payout is, so
it's incredible.
Just like the amount of timethat I get to spend with
students, like specificallytalking to them about things
that they're still need to workon, celebrating stuff they do,
it's incredible.
Like the relationships are justso different than what I had
years

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Ago.
And you've also created a systemwhere we, we, we preach, and
schools always talk about thisduet growth mindset and not
having to fix mindset, but Iwonder how many opportunities or
how systems are set up that areactually fixed where it's like
one and down, Okay, you did thisexam and then that's it, but
there's no opportunities to growuntil the next exam, which is
gonna be, or, or whatever theassessment is, which is a whole
different area of content ordifferent topic or whatever.

(16:11):
But here, you're actually ableto facilitate this growth
mindset and, and push back.
If a student says like, Wellthat's, I, I just got a four,
and and you can actually pourinto them and, and talk to them.
And do you ever hear more abouta student's story as to why they
, they were where they're at asyou're having these conferences?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Oh, absolutely.
Like for some kids who, who arejust like not getting the work
done or whatever, there's alwayssomething where it's not because
they're not smarter becausethey're lazy.
It's like, sometimes it'sliterally they tell you, Well,
cause I ask them, Hey, can youwork on this at home?
Or Can you come in during lunch,after school, whatever.
I'm, I'm always here.
And then they, they, they dropsome bombs on you like, Hey, uh,

(16:51):
my, my parents like divorced.
My mom lives in Mexico.
Cause we live in San Diego.
So they, some students live inMexico and come to school here
in San Diego and their get stuckat the border or, uh, even
though they have internet athome, they have to share.
It's like kind of what weexperienced in, in during the
pandemic where it's like,there's like three kids at home
and one computer, stuff likethat.

(17:11):
Right?
And it's these stories whereyou're like, first of all, it's
very humbling cuz they're goingthrough stuff that I never had
to go through.
I mean, my childhood was notamazing, but compared to what
they're going through, it'slike, oh yeah, that exists.
And it kind of like puts you inyour place a little bit.
It's also because of the systemthat I use.
There's no late really in myclass.

(17:32):
Some of the students are like, Ineed to subtract points from my
grade because I turned it inlate.
And I'm like, No, no, no, no,no.
The fact that you're doing it ispunishment enough cuz you have
to do it outside of class, youhave to do it at home, you have
to do it during lunch.
Like, that is, that is notcomfortable.
You're still doing it.
So why would I punish you bytaking a grade away?

(17:54):
That doesn't make sense.
You get the work done.
That's all that matters.
I try to be that person thatlike is understanding, it's
still pushing them to do theirbest and reminding them and
harping on them.
And with the spark that I threw,threw in there and fanning that
flame of, of them becoming likea better student because I'm
supporting them.
You're supporting them.
We're all like, our seventhgrade team is incredibly

(18:15):
supportive.
And then some people might pushbang, like that's not preparing
them for the real world.
This is the real world.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
There's a lot of life skills that they're gonna need,
but like, they're 12 right now,or 11 or six, you know, whatever
it is.
Let's, uh, we can, we can holdoff on taxes and the, and the
crushing weight of adult realitylater on.
Um, you got it done.
Well done.
I do wanna talk about the, thisthing that is your baby lately,
like this embryonic thing thatyou've been growing and I've

(18:43):
been able been fortunate to beable to watch it since it's
inception.
But you have this class that youcreated from scratch that's
essentially a STEM class.
Two questions.
Why did you create the class?
And you've done some uncommonthings.
I'm gonna leave it wide openjust for you to talk about it
because it's your baby and I'veg I've been fortunate to be able
to watch it from the start.
So can you talk about that?

Speaker 1 (19:01):
So yeah, so I'm obsessed with Star Wars.
Um, I think that's putting itmildly.
I love Star Wars.
Always have, um, my classroomgame.
It's called Jedi Academy.
And I've been playing aroundwith this idea of creating a
room that is more immersive.
So I put like a space, like,like a window to space on my

(19:25):
wall.
I have the Millennium Falcon inmy room.
I have like a bunch of resistantstuff or whatever, anything Star
Wars is you can find in myclassroom.
It's not like overloaded, but Iwant to, I was very intentional
in the things that I put inthere, uh, because I want my
students to come in and feellike they are playing the game.
And one of those things that Iused was like smells.
I used sounds to try to immersethem more.

(19:46):
And then so one day I was like,wouldn't it be cool to create a
classroom that looks literallylike a Star Wars set?
Like you walked onto a set, ontoa spaceship, onto a rebel base
onto whatever it is and how canI, how can I make that happen?
And then we talked about it andyou were like, Yeah, how about

(20:06):
you let the kids do it?
And that's kind of how the, howthe course was born.
And now I have students in myclassroom who are in the process
of designing a classroom basedon Star Wars and they're gonna
build everything and I, andwe're all learning at the same
time.
I've never done anything likethis.
I do like stem, but I've neverlike actually made it a class.

(20:27):
And so I contacted a bunch ofpeople on LinkedIn is I was
like, it would be cool to talkto an Imagineer and to get like
my foot in the door at Disneyand then have an Imagineer come
in and tell us about what theydid.
I I have this book called TheArt of Galaxy's Edge, which is
like the Star Wars land inDisneyland.
And I, I just looked at the listand was like, who could be a
good person to contact here?

(20:48):
And it said like, one of themwas Eric Baker and it said
Executive creative director.
And I, I googled him or I lookedfor him on LinkedIn and I found
him and I was like, I'm justgonna send him a message.
I'm just gonna tell him what Ido in my, in my class in
history, gamification and allthat, and their, their Jedi and
blah, blah, blah.
And he wrote back, like he wasthe only person that wrote back.

(21:09):
I wrote a bunch of people and hewas like, Yeah, I'd be super
interest.
I don't know what you want me todo, but I'm, I'm down.
And so it created thisrelationship between me and, and
Eric Baker who used to work forImagine Imagineering, who are
like the people at Disney whocreate the, the rides and the
park and all that.
And I talked to him and he gaveme some feedback on the room.

(21:30):
And then he was like, Oh, uh, soif you ever want me to talk to
students, I'm down.
I was like, Oh yes.
And so we had him zoom in.
He talked about his, his lifeand how he became like one of
the people to look for when itcomes to theme park design and
to create immersive experiences.
And I contacted other people onYouTube, like somebody who is

(21:53):
like a, a a Star Wars roombuilder.
He's willing to, to chat with usabout this, uh, project.
And then, um, I discovered thatthere is this thing called
Imagination Campus atDisneyland, which they offer
workshops on, uh, immersivestorytelling.
And I was like, Oh, that's whatI want.
I want my students to tell, totell a story with my room.

(22:15):
And so I wrote up a proposal,took a long time, but they
signed the, our admin signed itoff, we kind of financed it.
And then, uh, about two weeksago, um, you came along another
teacher and we took 30 somethingstudents to Disneyland and they
did this workshop where theylearned all about like how the
imagineers design story elementsand put them in the parks.

(22:38):
And then we took all of the kidsto Galaxy's Edge and we took a
bunch of photos, we went on therides together, we had this,
this collective experience.
And it was life changing for alot of students because, um,
some of, I mean, we we're Titleone school, there's like, we
have about 60% right freeintroduced lunch.

(22:59):
And a lot of them had never beento Disneyland.
About about half of them hadnever been.
Some of them went like when theywere little.
And so just watching theirfaces, going to Disneyland,
watching them walk into Galaxy'sEdge, um, experiencing all these
things, it was just, my mind wasjust blown.
And I like literally, I, I don'tknow if you noticed, but I was
just smiling.
Literally You

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Were loving it.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah.
Then we come back and we havethese amazing conversations
about design and what theynoticed and how they created
this immersive experience in, in, in their world.
And we talk about how we canbring this back to our classroom
and parents are sending emailssaying, Oh my God, we're so
happy that you did this for our,for our kids and you're the
coolest teacher.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
You, you touched on something that I wanted to ask
you about.
So you stay connected to peoplethat inspire you, I feel like,
or you have, have a, you have apretty broad network of
educators and professionals.
Like how much does that playinto what, what you do in the
classroom and, and the ideasthat you have as, as your
network or your community ofpeople?

Speaker 1 (23:57):
So the, the one network that helped me the the
most is like Twitter.
Um, and I know people haveopinions about Twitter for, for
good reason, but when I startedto, to gamify, I just started to
follow specific hashtags forareas that interested me.
And that was gamification XP up,which is like explore like a
pirate, it's an acronym.

(24:17):
And it, it just opened up allthese people, all these people
that I, all these educators whoare out there just like doing
cool stuff and sharing it onTwitter.
And I started connecting withthem and one of them is, is on
my podcast.
We, we, we met through Twitter,we started sharing stuff.
We started talking about thethings that we do.
We both happened to have agamified classroom.

(24:38):
And so we connected over thisthing Twitter, and now we're
like friends and we'representing together at, at at q
and all those places.
Teacher Twitter is incrediblysupportive and people want to
show you the stuff that theywork on, just like I do.
Like when I have stuff that Iworked out, I shared it on

(25:00):
there.
And it's so fun to hear backfrom teachers saying, Hey, this
looks awesome.
It's just, it makes you feelgood and it makes you feel like,
oh, what I'm doing is not, uh, atotal waste of time.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
those thoughts do creep in, right?
Like, even though you're doingsomething awesome and, and you
might think, so we become ourown worst critic sometimes, or
we, we always see the thingsthat we can improve and we
overlook the things that we'redoing well, fa where can, where
can people hear more about you,about gamification, about what
you're doing in the classroom,about how you're innovating.
I know you talk about this stuffwith some, and you talk about it

(25:31):
with some pretty legit people inthe education industry.
So can you tell some folks wherethey can hear more about it?

Speaker 1 (25:37):
So you can find me on Twitter at hoffman edu one f two
n s edu and uh, then also host apodcast called Rebel Teacher
Alliance.
There's three of us, um, wherewe talk all things gamification,
but we also, uh, talk to, toteachers who don't gamify at
all.
And we just, we just invitepeople who are interesting, who

(25:58):
have stuff to share, who do coolstuff.
You can find the podcast on, onthe internet at, uh, rebel
teacher alliance.com.
Um, follow us there.
If you wanna be a guest, justsend a message and we'll get you
on.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Fabian, I'm gonna gush on you right now, but when
you came back to Einstein, I wasso happy because I knew that you
sharpened me, you make me abetter science teacher.
Your, your innovation, yourpassion for kids, your sense of
humor, you're outside the boxthinking all of that.
And when you got outta theseventh grade team and you were
here, I just knew that it wasgoing to be awesome.
And it has been.

(26:31):
And so as a, as a teachingcolleague, as a friend, dude,
you just rock, man.
I'm super proud of you.
And, um, thank you for making mebetter.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Aw, now I'm starting to cry.
It's like, don't

Speaker 2 (26:43):
.
All true dude.
All true my brother.
Thank you.
All true.
And, uh, thank you for lettingme be part of the journey and,
uh, I will definitely be walkingdown the hall asking you
questions as I try to implementsome of these great ideas that
you're dealing with kids.
Thanks so much for listening.
And now we wanna hear more aboutyou.

(27:04):
Do you know any inspiringeducators?
Nominate them as a future gueston Science Connections by
emailing stem amplify.com.
That's s tm amplify.com.
Make sure to click subscribewherever you listen to podcasts
and join our Facebook group,Science Connections, the
Community.
Until next time.