July 24, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of the SCORRCAST, Jenna Rouse, Global Head of Clinical Operations at Simulations Plus, Inc., shares her leadership journey. From defining company culture to navigating global teams, Jenna offers insights on building trust, driving clarity, and leading with purpose in the life sciences space.
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Hello everyone, and welcome backto another episode of the
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SCORRCAST. The SCORRCAST is youressential guide to all things
life sciences, where we talkmarketing, we talk business
development, we talk operationsinnovation, and today we're
going to talk a little bit aboutall of these things, and a lot
about leadership. And I'm soexcited to have a special guest
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on for this episode, JennaRouse, who is the Global Head of
clinical operations atSimulations Plus, and I am
really eager to have yourperspective Jenna on the
podcast, because we don't alwaystalk about some of the
operational development. Wedon't always talk about some of
the brand development, and beingable to consistently tell this
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story through operationalefficiency. And then certainly
excited to dive into, you know,your leadership philosophy and
some of the things that you havegone through in the industry.
And I know, gosh, I feel likeit's been three years since we
first connected, when you wereat proficiency. And, you know,
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have kind of stayed in touch asas some of these things happen
from proficiency, which we'llcertainly talk about here with
simulations plus. And then thispast spring, we were kind of
rolling out our second season ofthe SCORR cast, and we wanted to
get different perspectiveswithin clinical research, within
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clinical operations, and LeaLaFerla SCORRs president and I
put a big circle and an asteriskaround your name, saying we'd
love to have you join thepodcast. So thank you so much
for joining. And before I startrunning on all things,
operations, leadership strategy,why don't you give a little
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introduction to yourself andyour background and maybe a
little bit about what you'repassionate about, and then we'll
gofrom there. Yeah, sure. Thanks
for having me on this, by theway, absolutely. Yeah. I started
with, with clinical trials,gosh, over like, 21 years ago, I
think it is now. And I startedwith acrp, which was just a
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really random kind of way. Ithink everyone in clinical
trials happens, danced intoclinical trials like you asked a
coordinator, how did you starthere? And they were like, wow, I
don't know. And so I was sort ofin that, in that bucket, I was
very fortunate within acrp tohave one great leadership and
then also the opportunity to doa ton of things there, and then
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meet hundreds and hundreds ofsite leaders, sponsors, CROs,
and really understand thismarket, And also what those gaps
were, I was able to create, youknow, kind of a business to
business function within a CRP,where we're able to bring
learning into organizations. Andin that role, I was able to work
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with proficiency, which was mypast organization. Proficiency
was a small startup. When Ifirst started working with them,
it was before they got anyfunding. It was, I mean, it was,
it was so small they didn't evenhave full time employees at the
time. But I loved what they did.
I mean, using simulation as away to practice really conflict
concept, really complexconcepts, and do that in a risk
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free environment. One, it's whatall other high risk industries
do. So it just makes good senseto do that. What we're doing is
in clinical research hassignificant impact on human
health, and that's important. Somaking that investment to do it
well is is really important. Buttwo the people that are taking
that as a learning enterpriselove it. I mean, I would so much
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rather be in a learning sessionwhere I'm I'm kind of making
decisions and and taking a rightcourse of action than having
PowerPoint presented to me.
That's agony. No, I always saywhen I'm at conferences, I'm
like, No one loves yourPowerPoint. No one. But yet,
here we are with 200 pagePowerPoint, still doing that. So
anyway, back to the pointthough, I started working with
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proficiency, and I just lovedwhat they did. I loved how
innovative it was. I loved I wasselling proficiency services
through a CRP to sites. Theywere eating it up, finding money
on top of training budgets toget access to this training for
the acrp curriculum and the modeof learning that they had after
a couple of years of workingwith them, I was like, this is
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the single greatest way of it,positively impacting clinical
trials, and that's where Ijoined proficiency full time.
Became a legitimateorganization. We got private
equity funding. I mean, it was atrue startup enterprise, and I
loved it so much. We got sold tosimulations, plus, which is such
a Kismet moment, because we usesimulation as our training
mechanism. So now, being part ofa company with the name
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simulations, plus publicorganization, much more rigorous
and how they do things, and thenalso very much in like up up
flow, so they do a lot of thedata modeling, bio simulation
and such. So it is, it's theirtheir science. This, and I'm
like, way smarter than I am sobut it's been a real joy working
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with their team. They're veryinnovative. They're also working
with a lot of the same clientswe were working with. So it's
just been a really seamlesstransition over to simulations
plus, and we've got big plans inthe future. So that's how I am
where I am now. It's been a wildride, and I love it.
I I love that, and I appreciateall of the background, because
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it already led me to the firstdetour of our, of our outline
for for the episode today, whichis you mentioned you kind of
just fell into clinicalresearch. And it's, it's a
recurring theme on this podcast,where everybody that I'm talking
to, for the most part, just hada moment where they accepted a
job and now it's like, I willnever leave. And I had that
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moment as well. I can feel justthis passion coming through you
talking about this and howexcited you are to be able to to
share the impact, create theimpact, and do all of this.
Where did that come like, isthat something that you just
learned over time? When was thatinflection point in your career
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where you were like, Okay, thisis it. This is this is the
thing. This is where I'm at, andI'm, there's no way I'm leaving.
I'm going all in, and I'mputting all my, you know, my
eggs in this basket?
Yeah. I mean, honestly, I thinkit was proficiency where I
really started to get passionateabout it, because we're so
fortunate. I think any solutionprovider that you talk to would
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say a similar thing, where theyget to see a lot of studies. And
so I feel like I get this, thisprivilege of understanding, kind
of, like, the foundation of allthese different innovative
studies that we're working on,like, you know, how are you
going about, like, addressingchronic kidney disease, or, how
are we using this new approachto an obesity study? And so I
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get to see these things that arehappening, and I don't, I would
be a terrible Clinical ResearchCoordinator like that would be a
match that should never happen,but I get to still understand
these, these studies, and seehow impactful this work is for
you know, like the humancondition and human health. And
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I think it's really importantwork. I think it takes so much
time and effort and resources totake this study and disseminate
it across a global sitelandscape and make sure you're
doing things consistently.
That's hard. It's hard, and soif I can help impact that, I
think anyone in any job anywherewants to see how their work
contributes to a bigger picture,whether it's within an
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organization and nobody wantstheir work to contribute to more
money for someone else. They allwant to feel like their work
contributes to something bigger,that they can say, I helped
that. And we can everyone inclinical research, I think can
do that as long as you know,from a and you know one of your
I think one of the things thatwe were going to kind of like
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address is, like on a leadershipside is I just want to make sure
everybody that I work withunderstands what we're doing
here. And I think it'simportant. It kind of makes you
excited about what you're doing.
Well, it brings it back to thethe impact. And I think, you
know, we've on this podcast alot, we talk about how you can
get caught in the day to day andthe ground and the numbers and,
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frankly, the pressure. And youknow, you mentioned the rigorous
activity, the regulatory like,there is a lot of pressure to be
in this space. And so if youkind of lose yourself in the day
to day, you can forget about theimpact that's being made on
humans across the world. And soI think it's a really
interesting perspective. And forme, you mentioned it in terms of
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that kind of segue. From theleadership perspective, how
important it is that leaders areable to identify and be excited
about the impact, because that'sgoing to make it a lot easier
for the rest of the team, foryour clients, for anybody that
you're working with. Hell, rightnow you've got me ready to run
through a brick wall. I wouldalso be a really bad clinical
research coordinator. I would bebad at anything that involves
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data collection and science onthat side. Yeah, you have me
fired up, and I feel like I amready to get started. And so can
you talk a little bit about justwith your background, and you
mentioned the startup, and nowwe're at simulations. Plus, how
do you think about leadershipwithin this space, and how do
you maintain the optimism andthe energy that you have, and
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how do you kind of infiltratethat into your leadership
perspective and some of thestrategies that you're creating
as well?
Yeah, I think it kind of differsbased on the kind of
organization that you're in. Forme, personally, I found, I think
a lot of my energy and passionfor the profession started with
acrp is feeling like you're partof something bigger. So, I mean,
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even from the, you know, entrylevel, you know, coordinator,
clinical trial assistant, it's agood idea to get involved in
something bigger. SCR is. Great.
You know, acrp is great. There'sjust so many organizations there
to feel like you're part ofsomething bigger and not so
isolated within an organizationor maybe even a small site. So
even within my team, I want tomake sure that that we're all
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working together on something,that that one team understands
what the other is doing, thatthere's clarity of role and
purpose that and then, you know,keeping people excited about
what they're doing, I think, Imean, my my personal philosophy,
is helping them make sure thatthey feel like they have skin in
the game, that they understandthat there's, you know,
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innovation that can be foundanywhere I had, you know, I have
one of my teams, the deliveryteam, and we work with within
our solution set, we createcontent which is very unique in
this space, as well asdelivering content, tons of
delivery content organizations.
So you can find someone who can,you know, quickly, help you
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generate content and thendisseminate it anywhere where we
kind of do things a little bitdifferently is we take, like,
protocols in house, and we'llcreate custom content. So, I
mean, we had one of oursimulation producers start
tinkering around with AI and,like, with a closed loop, so
it's all perfectly, like, safeand protected. Just have to put
that out there, because it'ssomething to think about. But I
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mean, he started creating thisthis way, and this is, you know,
within the last year ofautomatically creating content
from that because, you know,protocols are they're
standardized, you know, like,they have the same format. And
because of that, we're able to,like, really quickly create
content within like, one or twodays that's simulation based and
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practice oriented. I'm like,this came from my simulation
producer. This was not somethingthat, like, I was sitting around
being like, how are we going touse AI to quickly? I mean, these
are things I was thinking about.
But you know, if he didn't feellike, I'm going to try this, I'm
going to see what happens, andstart getting creative with
that, we wouldn't be where weare right now. And it's, you
know, you just got to letpeople, kind of like, explore,
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get creative.
Yeah, it's, it's, I talk aboutit a lot as the culture of
innovation is not sitting aroundand saying that we should be
innovative. It's giving spacefor somebody to come in with a
bad idea and say, Hey, I triedto mess around with this. I
followed all the rules andregulations. I did it the right
way. But, yeah, hey, here's theresult. Here's what I here's
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what I was able to achieve. Andit's not, it's not going to
work, and we're going to moveon. Or, hey, yeah, it's, it did
work. Can I try it again? Can I,can I do this? And I think, you
know, there was a podcast that Ihad, maybe one of the first ones
that we did was about innovationand how the best ideas right now
are, being built from leadersand team members who are okay
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with being wrong and trying to,trying to come up with a new
idea, and going away from thisphilosophy as of well, we've
always done it that way, andthat's where every good idea
ever has, has has been cut onthe, you know, the cutting room
floor. And so I think that a lotof that same, you know,
philosophy is in place with youhave to have it as a culture,
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from the leadership down to eachof the individuals in order to
be successful there and be bringit to light too.
I also think that there's this,this desire in human nature to,
like, try the new idea and haveit just be this groundbreaking,
immediate thing, particularly inthis space, patience is key.
Like, you have to have a newidea. And I can't tell you how
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many times I've heard from asponsor. Well, who else are you
working with? Because we haveFOMO. I mean, not those exact
words, but, you know, a bigsponsor buys it, then everyone
else is like, well, we shouldtoo, but it's patience and like,
diligence. You know, we're onthis marketing podcast. It's
awareness and it's timing. Forall of that. When working in
clinical study space, if youryour solution is hinges on study
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startup, you're you have to bethe right place at the right
time and from the right person,like, with the budget in hand,
like ready to go. It's alltiming, patience. And you got to
let that idea percolate for awhile and then be ready to,
like, tinker with it a littlebit. So that's something that
I've learned over the years,that it's never the right one
first out of the gates, got tokeep tinkering.
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I love, I love this concept ofof patience as a as a skill set,
and I think it ties in with thethought that I've had a lot
about the AI realm andinnovation as a whole, is that
we're not going to use it, andit's not going to come in and
completely change everythingtomorrow. It's going to be in
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the margins. It's going to makeus more effective in an area, or
it's going to increase theeffectiveness and increase the
bottom line. It's going to takea little bit away from the site
burden, like it's going to bethese things that they aren't
the sexiest things in the world.
But that's the type ofinnovation that is, if you
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compound it over and over again.
And you have a year, and you'vegot 10 different individuals
that are finding those littleslivers and those gaps, and then
you are patient to see theoutcome and the iteration of it
that's ultimately where you'regoing to make a bigger impact
than trying to find somethingthat's like, Hey, we're
completely scrapping how we'vedone it before, and we're
changing entirely. Thatinnovation is going to be much
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harder to come by AI like that.
That's not just going to besomething that happens
overnight. I think that'sanother kind of perspective of
how we have to think about howto use AI to make us more
efficient, not to changeeverything that we're doing
right now too.
Yeah, and we use AI in our kindof data modeling space
differently than I am in thelearning space. You know, I can
use AI for content creation, andit is an incredible efficiency
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measure. Will never be. I mean,it's clinical trials. Every
clinical trial is unique. That'sthe point of clinical trials is
trying something new, a littledifferently, maybe a different
patient population, maybe alittle dosing to change, you
know, so there's alwayssomething different, and AI can
get us 80% of the way there, butwe still have a team that has
clinical research expertise thatwill find the Phantom in that AI
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script, because there's always aphantom in there. And I've seen
companies come along that arelike, everything's AI generated.
I'm like, redflag, yeah, well, I don't want
to work. I like, genuinely. Istill need that human
connection, right? I need apartner. I need the extension of
the team. It's, you know, Ithink we were, we were at a show
a couple of weeks back, andthis, when this airs, it'll
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already be passed bio and DIAand some of the other shows this
summer. And both, both on theindustry side and on the
marketing side, there's so muchcommentary around AI, and I
think it's more so becausenobody knows exactly the answer.
If you say you're using it,there's just enough of an allure
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of like, oh, okay, well how?
Like, yeah, there's no there'sno true understanding of the
impact that can be had. And I'musing Gemini and replit, but
somebody else is using operatorand chat, and there's all these
different things. And then youbring that into the actual the
clinical trial space, when I seeAI, you know, data driven model,
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it's like, well, that's, it'salways been a data driven model.
Well, you know, I want the humanbeing that's the brilliant
individual being able to help meand be my, my my partner, yeah,
and be able to share, showcasethat expertise too. So we
weren't supposed to talk aboutAI, but now I'm now we're
already on that. I feel like youcan't have a conversation right
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now with without that being arelevant, a relevant discussion.
Yeah, anything else you want toadd to that before we before we
segue into another I feel like Istole it. There anything else
that you want to add tothat piece? No, I know, but I do
agree with you that. I mean, aslong as you, I think, as long as
people are understanding thatthere's, but it's a tool in the
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toolbox, not the tool or thetoolbox. It is, you know, it's
one way of helping bring thingsalong. And I do think I agree
with you that AI is manydifferent things to many
different people. And I do thinka lot of companies are also like
using it as this kind of coinphrase that is like, we use AI
Well, sure you chat GPT to therest of us. It's great. But how
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is like, how does that AI help?
And I also think the other thingI've noticed with clients that
we work with is that when webring up that we use AI to speed
the process up, there's thisinherent cuts out, like, oh,
well, then it's and it'scheaper, cheaper, obviously,
yeah. Like, we actually havemultiple people now that that
are trained to go through thesescripts and make sure that
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they're finding the that Phantomand the incorrect information.
So we always say here, it savesus 50% of time, and then adds
30% on for QC, so you're savingabout 20% but it's not it saves
time. It's not always savingthat, that effort, because the
the people now that have to gothrough it, have to have a
higher level of that kind ofcognitive ability to go through
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and find that information. Theyhave to really understand. They
have to go through a protocol.
They have to then quality checkit against the script. So it's
not it's time, but it's notalways directly correlative to
money. So that's just somethingelse that I've noticed. I'm
just going to pull that andplaster it everywhere. Because
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on the marketing side,especially, it's like, oh,
you're using AI for datacollection. It should be like,
you're, oh, you're way cheaper,yeah, oh, absolutely. And it's
like, well, actually, it's, it'sactually harder to do it, you
know, it might be moreefficient, but having somebody
learn that skill and have thatin the toolbox, and I think, you
know, you said it best, whichis, it's a tool in the toolbox,
not the toolbox itself, but I'vealso heard it as the solution,
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and it's not. It's certainlynot, not the solution. And, you
know, I think that you mentionedcompanies saying they're using
AI, I have had, I've, I'm onrecord for having beef in the
past with people who. Who arecompanies that have innovation
in their brand messaging?
Because I do not know what youmean. I you don't have any of
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that in your secondary messagingor in your brand story. You just
have the word innovation orinnovative partner. And when you
really dial it down, you'redoing the same thing that all of
the competitors are doing inthis really crowded space,
you're not innovative. And AI isreally starting to become
another one of those buzzwords.
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You know, I talk about the seaof sameness all the time in the
industry, and it's going to be avery similar approach, where
you're basically, we're allsaying that they're doing the
same thing, but it's just adifferent AI tool that's doing
it. And what's the actual valueto me? The customer, the client,
your target audience. I'm notsure when all I see is AI or
innovation as part of that.
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So I hear you saying thatinnovation is today's synergy.
Oh, gosh, do you remember? Yes,I there was a post on LinkedIn
yesterday that was like I saidsynergy. The other day, someone
was writing this out. It waslike, I said synergy. The other
day, I instantly put myself onmute, and I was ready to throw
up and plug in. Yes, it is. Oh,and the industry as a whole, I
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remember I started at SCORR,right at the beginning of of the
COVID 19 pandemic. And so reallyhave seen this, this trajectory,
and I think about all of thedifferent buzzwords that were
suddenly on every trade showbooth for a six month period,
whatever it was. And, you know,it was decentralized, that it
was patient centricity. Andthen, you know, this past D
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farm, I about lost it with datadriven insights, and I made a
rant about it, but it's verysimilar in the same approach of
we're not actually sayinganything from a brand
standpoint. I know we want totalk a little bit about brand
development and customer loyaltyand some of the impact that you
make. And I think it's a fairsegue to go into this direction,
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I'm going to ask a bad question.
Okay, I'm allowed. I allowmyself to ask one challenge that
cast. I say it one bad, one badpodcast question every, every
episode. And it's actuallypretty much directly from the
outline, and it's, it's thinkingabout your role within Global
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Head of clinical operations, andthinking of the the work that
you do right now, but thenhaving this concept of brand and
customer loyalty andexpectations from first touch
point to last touch point, noteverybody in this industry
compares brand with theexecution and at the operational
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level and customer loyalty, allof these different pieces that I
consider a brand. I think yourfirst touch point and your 400th
touch point from the projectmanager and the account team and
customer success, those are allelements of of your brand. And
so I'm curious, just in yourrole, how do you think about the
brand development, the story youknow, customer loyalty? How do
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you think about all of this andthen tying it into the role that
you have today as well? Yeah, Imean, I'm kind of in the for
this question. I'm lucky that Ido have a marketing background.
Yes, that's that's why I'mexcited about it. I'm excited
about this cheating.
Yeah, I mean, I think mostpeople who don't think about
brand as like colors and fontsand what's your tagline and the
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design of your logo, and thatis, that's the that's your
design elements, like, that'snot your brand. Your brand is
your voice. And you know, whatstory are you telling, and what
is the sentiment that you wantyour clients and your prospects
to have about you? And you knowthat is, I think you guys do
really tremendous job of of thatand that you know you need to
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establish as an organizationlike, what is your persona? Who
are you to the market? Not whoyou are to your current clients,
but who do you want to be foryour future clients, and are you
delivering on that with yourcurrent clients? Like, do they
feel that you are trustworthyand reliable and and steadfast,
or do they think that you areexciting and like? So these are,
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I think, some of the brandelements that we want to be
consistent about. And I will saythat that that is something that
as a transition from proficiencyas a startup, it was so easy for
us to be like the, you know,innovative technology, you know,
like that we could do. And we dohave, we're in transition with
that with simulations, plus thatis more they've been
established. They've been aroundfor a long time. They are in the
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data science side of things. Sowe've got to make sure that
we're still able to retain someof that passion in the brand
that we have as proficiencywithin simulations plus, and be
simulations plus, and that'ssomething that we're I think
we're still in transition on,because simulations plus has a
great reputation outside ofclinical operating. We want to
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make sure that we can combineboth of those, you know, bring
forward what we brought to thetable with proficiency into
simulations plus, and kind of,maybe we're kind of like the
crazy like or like the circusentered the building.
We do. I love that. I love it.
That's the That's the title ofthe episode. Here is the circus
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in the building. I was a micdrop moment on, on brand and,
and that story, and the brandis, is how you show up day in
and day out, yeah. So bringingit, bringing it even more,
continued into, you know, howyou create solutions. And we
talked about, you know, some ofthe learning models, and you
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know how excited you were aboutthat has a very proficiency feel
to it, right? In terms of thatpassion, how do you make sure
that you take the brand and thenreally be able to include it or
involve it into the solutionsthat that the end users are now
getting to experienceYeah, I feel like there's the
word compromise that's going tocome up, and I feel like that's
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the most boring word in theworld, but I have to use it.
There's some synergy.
Why would you do that to us?
Now it's stuck on mute,continue, continue. Yes, I'm
done, continue,but I really like we have to,
you know, we have to be that,that more rigorous, standardized
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organization, and I thinkthere's value in that,
especially when it comes tolearning, because learning is a
science, and when you're doinglearn, when you're in that
endeavor, I think there's somuch entertainment and
excitement that can engage youraudience, but you still have to
be very responsible and rigorousabout how you're collecting data
and how you're presenting thatback to the clients. And I think
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that that is something that isadding value to what we deliver.
We've always been really good atthat, but I feel like this
organization is kind of teachingus to lean into that a little
bit more, which is making ourmessage better. And then I think
we also are contributing alittle bit more of that. Like,
let's be more engaging with therest of the organization. Like,
let's find ways of of sharingreports in a way that carries
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forward a brand of like, youknow, a modern organization,
and, like, innovativeorganization, find the next
word, you know, just thinkingforward.
Yeah, yeah, the leading edge.
The leading edge, you know,let's do thinking forward. Maybe
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thinking I like it.
I like it. I I think that. Ithink that it's a really
interesting it's a reallyinteresting concept around, you
know, especially at largerorganizations or even smaller
organizations, but that havedifferent service lines or
different products, where maybeone has a little bit of a
different feel. And one of thecompanies that we've worked with
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in the past, that I always goback to is green fire, who was,
you know, recently merged withwith savoda. But they had these
different product lines, andsome of them had their own brand
and the own, their own energy.
And they had this little mascotnamed Fuego, and he was more
involved in that side, right?
And so, like you have to be ableto balance you still need for
(28:20):
when some when the end usersinvolved with that technology,
that service, that product,whatever it is, you have to be
able to know that it's comingfrom simulations, plus. But you
also want it to have that light,that spark. Because, especially
when we talk about, you know,the focus here, within adaptive
learning and just learning ingeneral, you want to have it be
engaging. And you want to haveit be something that, that, that
(28:41):
people want to come back to timeand time again. And so I think
you're, you're hitting on, onall of these different pieces
of, of, kind of the house ofbrands, and branded house within
the market development too,yeah. And then who you're
talking to, yeah, no. I mean,that's, that's one of the things
I kind of always think about, islike, in this in this
profession, a lot of the like,solution providers market to the
(29:04):
buyer, yeah, and not necessarilymarketing to the end user and
user. And I think that's part ofthat environment, right? Like
for us, one of our winning spotsis that sites love what I mean.
We have people at scope chasingus down to be like, Oh, I love
what you do. It feels reallygood. And if we don't talk about
(29:24):
that, which we don't talk aboutenough, frankly, we need to do
much better at that. But I meanthat that that's a win right
there. And absolutely everythingelse simulations, plus does is
for data scientists, what we dois for clinical operations, but
also for sites and for patients.
So we have an ability to be alittle more exciting, because
(29:46):
that's we have to engage thataudience. We're not just
delivering kind of a solution tothem. We have to have them
engage in it, because thesponsor wants to make sure that
a site is in it isunderstanding. Ending something
is being responsible and inresponding to this learning, and
isn't just, you know, thenotorious like, fast forward
(30:07):
through an education session andanswer five questions. They want
to make sure that something theyshould be asking for, an ROI in
that effort they should beasking for. How do I know that
they understand something fromthis effort? So I think that we
have the ability within ourlittle kind of, you know, with
the green fire example, like wehave the ability to be a little
bit more exciting, becausethat's our job is, to go out and
(30:28):
launch all of this quality workout into, you know, a bigger
spacewell, and especially when the
solution that you're bringing isunique to simulations, plus as
well. And so, I mean, you, youkind of are giving a masterclass
right now on, on being able tofold in a brand and a solution,
(30:48):
maintaining some of theexpertise and fun and elements
of one, but matching the other.
And you mentioned earlier, youknow you are. You were already
doing certain things, but nowsimulations, plus the way they
do things is, is kind ofelevating you in a certain
direction, too. And so it's a,it's a especially within this
industry. I mean, you've seenit, I've seen it. We've all seen
(31:10):
it. There are times wheremergers and acquisitions do not
go well, and right, two yearslater, people are still
referring to it as the othercompany and this company, and
there's different websites, andthere's no strategy and
cohesion, and so, you know, evenjust hearing how you talk about
it, seeing the benefits of, youknow, being able to assimilate
(31:30):
with the simulations, plus, butthen also have this kind of
uniqueness of your your team isreally cool to see, too. Yeah,
okay, I have got two questionsleft. Sure, I already asked a
bad question, but I have to askanother one. It wasn't bad. I
yeah, I felt like, I felt like Icould have made it hard. I
thought it was just going to bea little bit harder. It's like a
(31:53):
softball. Oh, wow. All right,you know what, let's, let's,
let's really, let's really divein here. I am curious. I am
really curious, and I apologizefor not sending this over. And
if you don't want to answer it,I won't be offended in any way,
shape or form. How are how areyou within the current landscape
of 2025, current administration,some of the pressure around the
(32:17):
the mandates, clinical trials,you know, we talk about it a lot
on the manufacturing side, butcertainly here, you know, within
clinical trial landscape, howare you adapting your service
offering or your story thatyou're telling to be more
effective in this time? Or areyou not? Is it something that
you guys aren't seeing thatimpact at all? I'm curious.
(32:40):
I mean, it hasn't been a funyear. No, yeah, no. It hasn't
like, the amount of like changeand kind of the decision making
process, I think, for for this,I think there's what I've seen,
and I don't know if others wouldagree with this, so I'll just
put it out there that what I seehappening, at least
(33:00):
historically, in the last kindof six months of this year has
been this sort of like, youknow, the decision fatigue
phenomenon, you know, like, Ihave found that more often than
not, when I'm talking tosponsors, who are our buyers and
CEOs are our buyers as well,but, and ultimately, it's that
sponsor of the study. It's like,they love what we do. It's like,
(33:20):
that absolutely makes sense. Butwhen it comes down to the rubber
to the road, they're like, it'sjust one more decision. I just,
I'm not sure I can make anotherdecision right now. And so in
the world of decision fatigue,it has been a very difficult
thing. How do I address that?
You know, you've got to makethat value proposition
undeniable. Have I reached thegold standard of that absolutely
(33:41):
not. This is where the tinkeringconcept is continuing to come
into play. So, you know, we'vebeen able to use AI to adjust
our timelines for delivery andour pricing a little bit too,
because we have been able tofind efficiencies with that. You
know, we're talking about thevalue proposition as we as we
usually have, and I think it'stime to kind of be more case
study based on that, to showwhat other sponsors have done.
(34:04):
I'm not, I am not done with whenyou ask that question of, like,
how are you doing? Well, we'llsay, I'm still in development on
that. I think, you know, thepatience is key. Situation. I
don't want to be like, it's notgoing well make a change. Like,
I don't want to be that person.
I want to be like, what'shappening? What are the levers I
can pull to try to move the shipin a slightly different
(34:28):
direction? Is it going in theright direction? Let's pull it
harder. You know, it's that kindof thing. So it's, you know,
it's like, the rudder on theship. I'm not going to, like,
pull down the sails and retoolthe boat mid, mid sale. But it's
not, it's been a rough year.
Man,yeah, it, it? I love, thank you
for answering that. And I lovethe approach to you know, we
(34:49):
talk about all the time when youset a business strategy, a sales
strategy, a marketing strategy,the economic turmoil doesn't
mean that that strategy isnecessarily wrong. It. Just
might mean that we have to makesome pivots, but scrapping it
entirely is just as bad as asdoing nothing. Yeah, I was
trying to think there, there's abook that I read this past year
(35:11):
called the jolt effect. I don'tthink I have it here. And they,
they went through hundreds of1000s of B to B buying processes
over the last five years, andthe number one cause of of DOL,
of deals stalling out, was flatout analysis paralysis. It
wasn't that they decided thatthey were going to stay with
(35:32):
their own provider. It wasn'tthat they chose somebody else.
It was Holy shit. There is waytoo much going on, and we're
just gonna stick to the statusquo, because I'm afraid of six
months from now. I'm afraid of12 months now, we see it on the
marketing side. You know, it'sreally hard to move forward the
plan if I don't know what thesituation is going to be in six
(35:52):
months, let alone, you know,three weeks, who knows what the
CDC is going to come down like?
You know, there's things thatare changing consistently, and
so you know what we really talkabout when, when we're working
with our clients in that is thevalue, like you said, the value
proposition undeniable. If 95%of our audience is not ready to
buy today, how can we beabsolutely in that top three
(36:16):
consideration set and a nonnegotiable for them when they
are and if that means, yeah, wehave a down month, but it means
the next month or the nextquarter, we're in a better
position in that 3060, 90, 180880 day pipeline, then that's
where we have to shift our focusand being really top of mind.
And like you said, the casestudies, right? Like being able
to effectively tell thatproblem, solution, result is, is
(36:38):
so important, because right now,people aren't going to buy the
nice to have, you know, the niceto have is, is not a priority in
in today's market. And I thinkuntil there's a until there's a
month without chaos, it mightnot come back to having to being
a priority for a little while.
You know?
(36:58):
Yeah, I should clarify. We'redoing really well,
yeah. Like, I just want to makesure that I clear that. Like,
you know, we've been veryfortunate that our clients love
us, so they keep coming back formore. And we've, we've still are
very much on a growthtrajectory. But like, I like to
win big. Like, That's My nature,that's I've been in a startup,
(37:20):
we like to win big. It's like asickness for us. Anyone who's
been in a startup will feel thesame way. They'll be like, Yeah,
I see that.
I I've always wanted to run amarketing campaign for SCORR. I
think agency, it's the same way,like you have to be a little a
little messed up in the head.
And I've always wanted to run acampaign with me, like, hair
(37:42):
down and like, it's kind oflike, Are you a little sick?
That marketing agency is exactlywhat you want, and startups
have, like, kind of the same,the same feeling, yeah. And just
to say, when, when you answerthat for me, what I heard, you
know, in terms of, it's been atough year, is for our clients
and our clients, clients, it'sjust flat out, I don't know
(38:03):
necessarily. And so, you know,it is different buying, yeah,
it's a different cycle. I mean,I went, I went home from the
office yesterday, and this,we're recording this June 11,
and we see that the entirepanel, you know, 17 vaccine
experts, you know, gone out oftheir seat. And how does that
change things? And there's notdirect. A lot of times for our
(38:25):
clients, there's not a directone to one, but there is a Hey,
should we? Should we pause?
Should we? Should we not moveforward? Yeah, we're hesitant.
And so to me, that's where, youknow, a lot of this comes in.
Like you said, there's, there'sjust a flat out, like hesitancy
or, yeah, analysis paralysis,status quo. You don't, you don't
want to disrupt anything rightnow because of the the time that
(38:48):
we're in,yeah, and we're talking to
different people too. You know,some companies where I would
talk to a study team, they'relike, Well, we have an
innovation team to talk to younow. And sometimes the
innovation team is like, well,we let the study teams make
their own decisions. And so andthat, that even, I think in this
kind of year of of transition, alot of companies are taking that
as an opportunity to reorg. Andnot everyone, for sure, but I
(39:12):
think anyone listening to thiswill be like, Oh, I can name
three that are reorganizing offthe top of my head. And that
also then who you used tobuying, the process you're used
to working through for buyingthat's changing so that, I mean,
it's like everything just kindof like a little bit shifted, a
little bit different. Andfortunately, you know, we're
change agents here again. Thatcomes from being a startup,
(39:34):
probably also with a marketingagency, yeah? So I'm ready to
roll with that. It just adds alittle layer of complexity to it
for sure, which is, tell youwhat in an acquisition, that's
not what I need. Want to besimple and easy.
Yeah, that's great. Keeps you onyour toes. That's for damn sure.
That keeps you on your toes.
Okay? I just looked at theclock. I looked at it like 20
(39:57):
minutes ago, and suddenly we'rewe're at. Time, and I'm going to
be respectful of your time,because this has been just a
fantastic episode. I do think,you know, maybe we'll have to
have a second part, just moreabout the adaptive learning and
some of the things that you'reseeing for the future. But I, I
want to give you an opportunity.
We kind of talked about a randomamount of things here, so
(40:20):
wherever you want to go, I liketo say, you know, give, give
your final takeaway. You know,if the team is going to be at a
trade show soon, where can theyfind you things like that? Or,
yeah, some people just want togive an elevator pitch. But I'll
give you the microphone for the,you know, the last minute or so
here, and let us know whatyou're thinking.
(40:40):
Yeah, I'm never, never reallybeen one for the elevator pitch.
Like I try not to sell because Idon't think anyone wants to be
sold to. But I do think that,you know, I do focus on the
learning side. I focus onlearning because I feel like it
is such a critical way ofdriving quality in clinical
trials. When you're trying totake a protocol across hundreds
of sites globally, or even 10sites locally for a smaller
(41:03):
focus study, looking for ways toimpact quality long term is
important. I do think learningis a way to do that. There's a
lot of great learning providersout there, and I think it's
worthwhile to look at literallyany other solution than a
PowerPoint deck. So that's myplea for the industry. Is to
you. Never do another 200 pagePowerPoint deck ever again.
(41:26):
Nobody wants to deck.
Death to the PowerPoint. I amYes, all in on I will double and
triple down to that, right?
Absolutely don't make itPowerPoint. Don't
watch it. Don't we can help, butso can others.
Yeah, well, find anothersolution. I have even said, if
you're going to do thePowerPoint, do a video. Like, do
(41:48):
a video of you talking throughthe power. Send it ahead of
time. Do other things like, justbe more creative. It's no one
wants to sit here, yeah, and beinvolved with that. You know?
I mean, Harvard literallypublished a study saying that
PowerPoint was worse thanuseless, because the cognitive
dissonance of reading andlistening is physically like you
physically can't do two at thesame time, so the minute you
(42:09):
have, like, a lot of words onyour deck, you just went wrong.
I say this because, and I'vedone a deck with words on the
slide, and I've been an offenderin the past, and when I do it,
I'm like, why am I doing this?
Everyone should ask themselvesthe same thing, words on a deck.
No,that's it. That's the episode
right there. I have to pullthat. That is that, that
(42:31):
Harvard, that Harvard dropHarvard, and we will be linking
that study. Jenna, this. Thishas been absolutely fantastic.
Worth the the price of admissionfor our listeners, which is $0
but it is still just anincredible listen. I really
appreciate you taking the timeto share your insights and your
(42:51):
expertise and and also just yourpassion. You know this is it's
one of the reasons that Istarted the podcast. Was just
getting to hear stories andskill sets. And right out of the
gate. I could tell you werecoming in on the jet pack, ready
to go, and I am extremelyappreciative of that. I know our
listeners will be as well. Ifyou are listening to this and
(43:12):
you want to reach out to Jenna,because you're either like me
and you think that her passionis fantastic, or the solution is
fantastic, reach out to her onLinkedIn. If you want to have an
introduction, reach out to me,and I'll send over an email. And
I'm assuming that if you'relistening to this, you thought
the episode was just absolutelyperfect, so you should rate it
(43:32):
five stars. You can leave areview. You can subscribe to the
SCORR cast. You are episode 50.
I believe Jenna, which is such abig deal. We started it in July
of 2024, and we have done oneevery week since July of 2024,
and so we are so close to week52 here for a full year's worth
of episodes, that I couldn'tthink of a better way to come
(43:55):
into number 50 than to hear yourexpertise and you get to share a
little bit more of your story.
So thank you again. Jenna, thankyou for having me as
always. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the SCORRCAST
(44:19):
brought to you by SCORRMarketing, we appreciate your
time and hope you found thisdiscussion insightful. Don't
forget to subscribe and join usfor our next episode. Until
then, remember, marketing issupposed to be fun.
Hello everyone, and welcome backto another episode of the
(00:04):
SCORRCAST. The SCORRCAST is youressential guide to all things
life sciences, where we talkmarketing, we talk business
development, we talk operationsinnovation, and today we're
going to talk a little bit aboutall of these things, and a lot
about leadership. And I'm soexcited to have a special guest
(00:24):
on for this episode, JennaRouse, who is the Global Head of
clinical operations atSimulations Plus, and I am
really eager to have yourperspective Jenna on the
podcast, because we don't alwaystalk about some of the
operational development. Wedon't always talk about some of
the brand development, and beingable to consistently tell this
(00:48):
story through operationalefficiency. And then certainly
excited to dive into, you know,your leadership philosophy and
some of the things that you havegone through in the industry.
And I know, gosh, I feel likeit's been three years since we
first connected, when you wereat proficiency. And, you know,
(01:09):
have kind of stayed in touch asas some of these things happen
from proficiency, which we'llcertainly talk about here with
simulations plus. And then thispast spring, we were kind of
rolling out our second season ofthe SCORR cast, and we wanted to
get different perspectiveswithin clinical research, within
(01:30):
clinical operations, and LeaLaFerla SCORRs president and I
put a big circle and an asteriskaround your name, saying we'd
love to have you join thepodcast. So thank you so much
for joining. And before I startrunning on all things,
operations, leadership strategy,why don't you give a little
(01:50):
introduction to yourself andyour background and maybe a
little bit about what you'repassionate about, and then we'll
gofrom there. Yeah, sure. Thanks
for having me on this, by theway, absolutely. Yeah. I started
with, with clinical trials,gosh, over like, 21 years ago, I
think it is now. And I startedwith acrp, which was just a
(02:11):
really random kind of way. Ithink everyone in clinical
trials happens, danced intoclinical trials like you asked a
coordinator, how did you starthere? And they were like, wow, I
don't know. And so I was sort ofin that, in that bucket, I was
very fortunate within acrp tohave one great leadership and
then also the opportunity to doa ton of things there, and then
(02:32):
meet hundreds and hundreds ofsite leaders, sponsors, CROs,
and really understand thismarket, And also what those gaps
were, I was able to create, youknow, kind of a business to
business function within a CRP,where we're able to bring
learning into organizations. Andin that role, I was able to work
(02:52):
with proficiency, which was mypast organization. Proficiency
was a small startup. When Ifirst started working with them,
it was before they got anyfunding. It was, I mean, it was,
it was so small they didn't evenhave full time employees at the
time. But I loved what they did.
I mean, using simulation as away to practice really conflict
concept, really complexconcepts, and do that in a risk
(03:15):
free environment. One, it's whatall other high risk industries
do. So it just makes good senseto do that. What we're doing is
in clinical research hassignificant impact on human
health, and that's important. Somaking that investment to do it
well is is really important. Buttwo the people that are taking
that as a learning enterpriselove it. I mean, I would so much
(03:38):
rather be in a learning sessionwhere I'm I'm kind of making
decisions and and taking a rightcourse of action than having
PowerPoint presented to me.
That's agony. No, I always saywhen I'm at conferences, I'm
like, No one loves yourPowerPoint. No one. But yet,
here we are with 200 pagePowerPoint, still doing that. So
anyway, back to the pointthough, I started working with
(03:59):
proficiency, and I just lovedwhat they did. I loved how
innovative it was. I loved I wasselling proficiency services
through a CRP to sites. Theywere eating it up, finding money
on top of training budgets toget access to this training for
the acrp curriculum and the modeof learning that they had after
a couple of years of workingwith them, I was like, this is
(04:20):
the single greatest way of it,positively impacting clinical
trials, and that's where Ijoined proficiency full time.
Became a legitimateorganization. We got private
equity funding. I mean, it was atrue startup enterprise, and I
loved it so much. We got sold tosimulations, plus, which is such
a Kismet moment, because we usesimulation as our training
mechanism. So now, being part ofa company with the name
(04:43):
simulations, plus publicorganization, much more rigorous
and how they do things, and thenalso very much in like up up
flow, so they do a lot of thedata modeling, bio simulation
and such. So it is, it's theirtheir science. This, and I'm
like, way smarter than I am sobut it's been a real joy working
(05:04):
with their team. They're veryinnovative. They're also working
with a lot of the same clientswe were working with. So it's
just been a really seamlesstransition over to simulations
plus, and we've got big plans inthe future. So that's how I am
where I am now. It's been a wildride, and I love it.
I I love that, and I appreciateall of the background, because
(05:25):
it already led me to the firstdetour of our, of our outline
for for the episode today, whichis you mentioned you kind of
just fell into clinicalresearch. And it's, it's a
recurring theme on this podcast,where everybody that I'm talking
to, for the most part, just hada moment where they accepted a
job and now it's like, I willnever leave. And I had that
(05:49):
moment as well. I can feel justthis passion coming through you
talking about this and howexcited you are to be able to to
share the impact, create theimpact, and do all of this.
Where did that come like, isthat something that you just
learned over time? When was thatinflection point in your career
(06:11):
where you were like, Okay, thisis it. This is this is the
thing. This is where I'm at, andI'm, there's no way I'm leaving.
I'm going all in, and I'mputting all my, you know, my
eggs in this basket?
Yeah. I mean, honestly, I thinkit was proficiency where I
really started to get passionateabout it, because we're so
fortunate. I think any solutionprovider that you talk to would
(06:32):
say a similar thing, where theyget to see a lot of studies. And
so I feel like I get this, thisprivilege of understanding, kind
of, like, the foundation of allthese different innovative
studies that we're working on,like, you know, how are you
going about, like, addressingchronic kidney disease, or, how
are we using this new approachto an obesity study? And so I
(06:54):
get to see these things that arehappening, and I don't, I would
be a terrible Clinical ResearchCoordinator like that would be a
match that should never happen,but I get to still understand
these, these studies, and seehow impactful this work is for
you know, like the humancondition and human health. And
(07:15):
I think it's really importantwork. I think it takes so much
time and effort and resources totake this study and disseminate
it across a global sitelandscape and make sure you're
doing things consistently.
That's hard. It's hard, and soif I can help impact that, I
think anyone in any job anywherewants to see how their work
contributes to a bigger picture,whether it's within an
(07:39):
organization and nobody wantstheir work to contribute to more
money for someone else. They allwant to feel like their work
contributes to something bigger,that they can say, I helped
that. And we can everyone inclinical research, I think can
do that as long as you know,from a and you know one of your
I think one of the things thatwe were going to kind of like
(07:59):
address is, like on a leadershipside is I just want to make sure
everybody that I work withunderstands what we're doing
here. And I think it'simportant. It kind of makes you
excited about what you're doing.
Well, it brings it back to thethe impact. And I think, you
know, we've on this podcast alot, we talk about how you can
get caught in the day to day andthe ground and the numbers and,
(08:20):
frankly, the pressure. And youknow, you mentioned the rigorous
activity, the regulatory like,there is a lot of pressure to be
in this space. And so if youkind of lose yourself in the day
to day, you can forget about theimpact that's being made on
humans across the world. And soI think it's a really
interesting perspective. And forme, you mentioned it in terms of
(08:43):
that kind of segue. From theleadership perspective, how
important it is that leaders areable to identify and be excited
about the impact, because that'sgoing to make it a lot easier
for the rest of the team, foryour clients, for anybody that
you're working with. Hell, rightnow you've got me ready to run
through a brick wall. I wouldalso be a really bad clinical
research coordinator. I would bebad at anything that involves
(09:06):
data collection and science onthat side. Yeah, you have me
fired up, and I feel like I amready to get started. And so can
you talk a little bit about justwith your background, and you
mentioned the startup, and nowwe're at simulations. Plus, how
do you think about leadershipwithin this space, and how do
you maintain the optimism andthe energy that you have, and
(09:30):
how do you kind of infiltratethat into your leadership
perspective and some of thestrategies that you're creating
as well?
Yeah, I think it kind of differsbased on the kind of
organization that you're in. Forme, personally, I found, I think
a lot of my energy and passionfor the profession started with
acrp is feeling like you're partof something bigger. So, I mean,
(09:51):
even from the, you know, entrylevel, you know, coordinator,
clinical trial assistant, it's agood idea to get involved in
something bigger. SCR is. Great.
You know, acrp is great. There'sjust so many organizations there
to feel like you're part ofsomething bigger and not so
isolated within an organizationor maybe even a small site. So
even within my team, I want tomake sure that that we're all
(10:13):
working together on something,that that one team understands
what the other is doing, thatthere's clarity of role and
purpose that and then, you know,keeping people excited about
what they're doing, I think, Imean, my my personal philosophy,
is helping them make sure thatthey feel like they have skin in
the game, that they understandthat there's, you know,
(10:35):
innovation that can be foundanywhere I had, you know, I have
one of my teams, the deliveryteam, and we work with within
our solution set, we createcontent which is very unique in
this space, as well asdelivering content, tons of
delivery content organizations.
So you can find someone who can,you know, quickly, help you
(10:57):
generate content and thendisseminate it anywhere where we
kind of do things a little bitdifferently is we take, like,
protocols in house, and we'llcreate custom content. So, I
mean, we had one of oursimulation producers start
tinkering around with AI and,like, with a closed loop, so
it's all perfectly, like, safeand protected. Just have to put
that out there, because it'ssomething to think about. But I
(11:18):
mean, he started creating thisthis way, and this is, you know,
within the last year ofautomatically creating content
from that because, you know,protocols are they're
standardized, you know, like,they have the same format. And
because of that, we're able to,like, really quickly create
content within like, one or twodays that's simulation based and
(11:39):
practice oriented. I'm like,this came from my simulation
producer. This was not somethingthat, like, I was sitting around
being like, how are we going touse AI to quickly? I mean, these
are things I was thinking about.
But you know, if he didn't feellike, I'm going to try this, I'm
going to see what happens, andstart getting creative with
that, we wouldn't be where weare right now. And it's, you
know, you just got to letpeople, kind of like, explore,
(12:00):
get creative.
Yeah, it's, it's, I talk aboutit a lot as the culture of
innovation is not sitting aroundand saying that we should be
innovative. It's giving spacefor somebody to come in with a
bad idea and say, Hey, I triedto mess around with this. I
followed all the rules andregulations. I did it the right
way. But, yeah, hey, here's theresult. Here's what I here's
(12:21):
what I was able to achieve. Andit's not, it's not going to
work, and we're going to moveon. Or, hey, yeah, it's, it did
work. Can I try it again? Can I,can I do this? And I think, you
know, there was a podcast that Ihad, maybe one of the first ones
that we did was about innovationand how the best ideas right now
are, being built from leadersand team members who are okay
(12:44):
with being wrong and trying to,trying to come up with a new
idea, and going away from thisphilosophy as of well, we've
always done it that way, andthat's where every good idea
ever has, has has been cut onthe, you know, the cutting room
floor. And so I think that a lotof that same, you know,
philosophy is in place with youhave to have it as a culture,
(13:07):
from the leadership down to eachof the individuals in order to
be successful there and be bringit to light too.
I also think that there's this,this desire in human nature to,
like, try the new idea and haveit just be this groundbreaking,
immediate thing, particularly inthis space, patience is key.
Like, you have to have a newidea. And I can't tell you how
(13:29):
many times I've heard from asponsor. Well, who else are you
working with? Because we haveFOMO. I mean, not those exact
words, but, you know, a bigsponsor buys it, then everyone
else is like, well, we shouldtoo, but it's patience and like,
diligence. You know, we're onthis marketing podcast. It's
awareness and it's timing. Forall of that. When working in
clinical study space, if youryour solution is hinges on study
(13:52):
startup, you're you have to bethe right place at the right
time and from the right person,like, with the budget in hand,
like ready to go. It's alltiming, patience. And you got to
let that idea percolate for awhile and then be ready to,
like, tinker with it a littlebit. So that's something that
I've learned over the years,that it's never the right one
first out of the gates, got tokeep tinkering.
(14:15):
I love, I love this concept ofof patience as a as a skill set,
and I think it ties in with thethought that I've had a lot
about the AI realm andinnovation as a whole, is that
we're not going to use it, andit's not going to come in and
completely change everythingtomorrow. It's going to be in
(14:36):
the margins. It's going to makeus more effective in an area, or
it's going to increase theeffectiveness and increase the
bottom line. It's going to takea little bit away from the site
burden, like it's going to bethese things that they aren't
the sexiest things in the world.
But that's the type ofinnovation that is, if you
(14:58):
compound it over and over again.
And you have a year, and you'vegot 10 different individuals
that are finding those littleslivers and those gaps, and then
you are patient to see theoutcome and the iteration of it
that's ultimately where you'regoing to make a bigger impact
than trying to find somethingthat's like, Hey, we're
completely scrapping how we'vedone it before, and we're
changing entirely. Thatinnovation is going to be much
(15:21):
harder to come by AI like that.
That's not just going to besomething that happens
overnight. I think that'sanother kind of perspective of
how we have to think about howto use AI to make us more
efficient, not to changeeverything that we're doing
right now too.
Yeah, and we use AI in our kindof data modeling space
differently than I am in thelearning space. You know, I can
use AI for content creation, andit is an incredible efficiency
(15:45):
measure. Will never be. I mean,it's clinical trials. Every
clinical trial is unique. That'sthe point of clinical trials is
trying something new, a littledifferently, maybe a different
patient population, maybe alittle dosing to change, you
know, so there's alwayssomething different, and AI can
get us 80% of the way there, butwe still have a team that has
clinical research expertise thatwill find the Phantom in that AI
(16:08):
script, because there's always aphantom in there. And I've seen
companies come along that arelike, everything's AI generated.
I'm like, redflag, yeah, well, I don't want
to work. I like, genuinely. Istill need that human
connection, right? I need apartner. I need the extension of
the team. It's, you know, Ithink we were, we were at a show
a couple of weeks back, andthis, when this airs, it'll
(16:31):
already be passed bio and DIAand some of the other shows this
summer. And both, both on theindustry side and on the
marketing side, there's so muchcommentary around AI, and I
think it's more so becausenobody knows exactly the answer.
If you say you're using it,there's just enough of an allure
(16:51):
of like, oh, okay, well how?
Like, yeah, there's no there'sno true understanding of the
impact that can be had. And I'musing Gemini and replit, but
somebody else is using operatorand chat, and there's all these
different things. And then youbring that into the actual the
clinical trial space, when I seeAI, you know, data driven model,
(17:12):
it's like, well, that's, it'salways been a data driven model.
Well, you know, I want the humanbeing that's the brilliant
individual being able to help meand be my, my my partner, yeah,
and be able to share, showcasethat expertise too. So we
weren't supposed to talk aboutAI, but now I'm now we're
already on that. I feel like youcan't have a conversation right
(17:33):
now with without that being arelevant, a relevant discussion.
Yeah, anything else you want toadd to that before we before we
segue into another I feel like Istole it. There anything else
that you want to add tothat piece? No, I know, but I do
agree with you that. I mean, aslong as you, I think, as long as
people are understanding thatthere's, but it's a tool in the
(17:55):
toolbox, not the tool or thetoolbox. It is, you know, it's
one way of helping bring thingsalong. And I do think I agree
with you that AI is manydifferent things to many
different people. And I do thinka lot of companies are also like
using it as this kind of coinphrase that is like, we use AI
Well, sure you chat GPT to therest of us. It's great. But how
(18:18):
is like, how does that AI help?
And I also think the other thingI've noticed with clients that
we work with is that when webring up that we use AI to speed
the process up, there's thisinherent cuts out, like, oh,
well, then it's and it'scheaper, cheaper, obviously,
yeah. Like, we actually havemultiple people now that that
are trained to go through thesescripts and make sure that
(18:40):
they're finding the that Phantomand the incorrect information.
So we always say here, it savesus 50% of time, and then adds
30% on for QC, so you're savingabout 20% but it's not it saves
time. It's not always savingthat, that effort, because the
the people now that have to gothrough it, have to have a
higher level of that kind ofcognitive ability to go through
(19:02):
and find that information. Theyhave to really understand. They
have to go through a protocol.
They have to then quality checkit against the script. So it's
not it's time, but it's notalways directly correlative to
money. So that's just somethingelse that I've noticed. I'm
just going to pull that andplaster it everywhere. Because
(19:23):
on the marketing side,especially, it's like, oh,
you're using AI for datacollection. It should be like,
you're, oh, you're way cheaper,yeah, oh, absolutely. And it's
like, well, actually, it's, it'sactually harder to do it, you
know, it might be moreefficient, but having somebody
learn that skill and have thatin the toolbox, and I think, you
know, you said it best, whichis, it's a tool in the toolbox,
not the toolbox itself, but I'vealso heard it as the solution,
(19:46):
and it's not. It's certainlynot, not the solution. And, you
know, I think that you mentionedcompanies saying they're using
AI, I have had, I've, I'm onrecord for having beef in the
past with people who. Who arecompanies that have innovation
in their brand messaging?
Because I do not know what youmean. I you don't have any of
(20:07):
that in your secondary messagingor in your brand story. You just
have the word innovation orinnovative partner. And when you
really dial it down, you'redoing the same thing that all of
the competitors are doing inthis really crowded space,
you're not innovative. And AI isreally starting to become
another one of those buzzwords.
(20:28):
You know, I talk about the seaof sameness all the time in the
industry, and it's going to be avery similar approach, where
you're basically, we're allsaying that they're doing the
same thing, but it's just adifferent AI tool that's doing
it. And what's the actual valueto me? The customer, the client,
your target audience. I'm notsure when all I see is AI or
innovation as part of that.
(20:49):
So I hear you saying thatinnovation is today's synergy.
Oh, gosh, do you remember? Yes,I there was a post on LinkedIn
yesterday that was like I saidsynergy. The other day, someone
was writing this out. It waslike, I said synergy. The other
day, I instantly put myself onmute, and I was ready to throw
up and plug in. Yes, it is. Oh,and the industry as a whole, I
(21:14):
remember I started at SCORR,right at the beginning of of the
COVID 19 pandemic. And so reallyhave seen this, this trajectory,
and I think about all of thedifferent buzzwords that were
suddenly on every trade showbooth for a six month period,
whatever it was. And, you know,it was decentralized, that it
was patient centricity. Andthen, you know, this past D
(21:36):
farm, I about lost it with datadriven insights, and I made a
rant about it, but it's verysimilar in the same approach of
we're not actually sayinganything from a brand
standpoint. I know we want totalk a little bit about brand
development and customer loyaltyand some of the impact that you
make. And I think it's a fairsegue to go into this direction,
(22:01):
I'm going to ask a bad question.
Okay, I'm allowed. I allowmyself to ask one challenge that
cast. I say it one bad, one badpodcast question every, every
episode. And it's actuallypretty much directly from the
outline, and it's, it's thinkingabout your role within Global
(22:21):
Head of clinical operations, andthinking of the the work that
you do right now, but thenhaving this concept of brand and
customer loyalty andexpectations from first touch
point to last touch point, noteverybody in this industry
compares brand with theexecution and at the operational
(22:44):
level and customer loyalty, allof these different pieces that I
consider a brand. I think yourfirst touch point and your 400th
touch point from the projectmanager and the account team and
customer success, those are allelements of of your brand. And
so I'm curious, just in yourrole, how do you think about the
brand development, the story youknow, customer loyalty? How do
(23:07):
you think about all of this andthen tying it into the role that
you have today as well? Yeah, Imean, I'm kind of in the for
this question. I'm lucky that Ido have a marketing background.
Yes, that's that's why I'mexcited about it. I'm excited
about this cheating.
Yeah, I mean, I think mostpeople who don't think about
brand as like colors and fontsand what's your tagline and the
(23:32):
design of your logo, and thatis, that's the that's your
design elements, like, that'snot your brand. Your brand is
your voice. And you know, whatstory are you telling, and what
is the sentiment that you wantyour clients and your prospects
to have about you? And you knowthat is, I think you guys do
really tremendous job of of thatand that you know you need to
(23:54):
establish as an organizationlike, what is your persona? Who
are you to the market? Not whoyou are to your current clients,
but who do you want to be foryour future clients, and are you
delivering on that with yourcurrent clients? Like, do they
feel that you are trustworthyand reliable and and steadfast,
or do they think that you areexciting and like? So these are,
(24:16):
I think, some of the brandelements that we want to be
consistent about. And I will saythat that that is something that
as a transition from proficiencyas a startup, it was so easy for
us to be like the, you know,innovative technology, you know,
like that we could do. And we dohave, we're in transition with
that with simulations, plus thatis more they've been
established. They've been aroundfor a long time. They are in the
(24:38):
data science side of things. Sowe've got to make sure that
we're still able to retain someof that passion in the brand
that we have as proficiencywithin simulations plus, and be
simulations plus, and that'ssomething that we're I think
we're still in transition on,because simulations plus has a
great reputation outside ofclinical operating. We want to
(25:00):
make sure that we can combineboth of those, you know, bring
forward what we brought to thetable with proficiency into
simulations plus, and kind of,maybe we're kind of like the
crazy like or like the circusentered the building.
We do. I love that. I love it.
That's the That's the title ofthe episode. Here is the circus
(25:21):
in the building. I was a micdrop moment on, on brand and,
and that story, and the brandis, is how you show up day in
and day out, yeah. So bringingit, bringing it even more,
continued into, you know, howyou create solutions. And we
talked about, you know, some ofthe learning models, and you
(25:44):
know how excited you were aboutthat has a very proficiency feel
to it, right? In terms of thatpassion, how do you make sure
that you take the brand and thenreally be able to include it or
involve it into the solutionsthat that the end users are now
getting to experienceYeah, I feel like there's the
word compromise that's going tocome up, and I feel like that's
(26:06):
the most boring word in theworld, but I have to use it.
There's some synergy.
Why would you do that to us?
Now it's stuck on mute,continue, continue. Yes, I'm
done, continue,but I really like we have to,
you know, we have to be that,that more rigorous, standardized
(26:29):
organization, and I thinkthere's value in that,
especially when it comes tolearning, because learning is a
science, and when you're doinglearn, when you're in that
endeavor, I think there's somuch entertainment and
excitement that can engage youraudience, but you still have to
be very responsible and rigorousabout how you're collecting data
and how you're presenting thatback to the clients. And I think
(26:49):
that that is something that isadding value to what we deliver.
We've always been really good atthat, but I feel like this
organization is kind of teachingus to lean into that a little
bit more, which is making ourmessage better. And then I think
we also are contributing alittle bit more of that. Like,
let's be more engaging with therest of the organization. Like,
let's find ways of of sharingreports in a way that carries
(27:13):
forward a brand of like, youknow, a modern organization,
and, like, innovativeorganization, find the next
word, you know, just thinkingforward.
Yeah, yeah, the leading edge.
The leading edge, you know,let's do thinking forward. Maybe
(27:34):
thinking I like it.
I like it. I I think that. Ithink that it's a really
interesting it's a reallyinteresting concept around, you
know, especially at largerorganizations or even smaller
organizations, but that havedifferent service lines or
different products, where maybeone has a little bit of a
different feel. And one of thecompanies that we've worked with
(27:56):
in the past, that I always goback to is green fire, who was,
you know, recently merged withwith savoda. But they had these
different product lines, andsome of them had their own brand
and the own, their own energy.
And they had this little mascotnamed Fuego, and he was more
involved in that side, right?
And so, like you have to be ableto balance you still need for
(28:20):
when some when the end usersinvolved with that technology,
that service, that product,whatever it is, you have to be
able to know that it's comingfrom simulations, plus. But you
also want it to have that light,that spark. Because, especially
when we talk about, you know,the focus here, within adaptive
learning and just learning ingeneral, you want to have it be
engaging. And you want to haveit be something that, that, that
(28:41):
people want to come back to timeand time again. And so I think
you're, you're hitting on, onall of these different pieces
of, of, kind of the house ofbrands, and branded house within
the market development too,yeah. And then who you're
talking to, yeah, no. I mean,that's, that's one of the things
I kind of always think about, islike, in this in this
profession, a lot of the like,solution providers market to the
(29:04):
buyer, yeah, and not necessarilymarketing to the end user and
user. And I think that's part ofthat environment, right? Like
for us, one of our winning spotsis that sites love what I mean.
We have people at scope chasingus down to be like, Oh, I love
what you do. It feels reallygood. And if we don't talk about
(29:24):
that, which we don't talk aboutenough, frankly, we need to do
much better at that. But I meanthat that that's a win right
there. And absolutely everythingelse simulations, plus does is
for data scientists, what we dois for clinical operations, but
also for sites and for patients.
So we have an ability to be alittle more exciting, because
(29:46):
that's we have to engage thataudience. We're not just
delivering kind of a solution tothem. We have to have them
engage in it, because thesponsor wants to make sure that
a site is in it isunderstanding. Ending something
is being responsible and inresponding to this learning, and
isn't just, you know, thenotorious like, fast forward
(30:07):
through an education session andanswer five questions. They want
to make sure that something theyshould be asking for, an ROI in
that effort they should beasking for. How do I know that
they understand something fromthis effort? So I think that we
have the ability within ourlittle kind of, you know, with
the green fire example, like wehave the ability to be a little
bit more exciting, becausethat's our job is, to go out and
(30:28):
launch all of this quality workout into, you know, a bigger
spacewell, and especially when the
solution that you're bringing isunique to simulations, plus as
well. And so, I mean, you, youkind of are giving a masterclass
right now on, on being able tofold in a brand and a solution,
(30:48):
maintaining some of theexpertise and fun and elements
of one, but matching the other.
And you mentioned earlier, youknow you are. You were already
doing certain things, but nowsimulations, plus the way they
do things is, is kind ofelevating you in a certain
direction, too. And so it's a,it's a especially within this
industry. I mean, you've seenit, I've seen it. We've all seen
(31:10):
it. There are times wheremergers and acquisitions do not
go well, and right, two yearslater, people are still
referring to it as the othercompany and this company, and
there's different websites, andthere's no strategy and
cohesion, and so, you know, evenjust hearing how you talk about
it, seeing the benefits of, youknow, being able to assimilate
(31:30):
with the simulations, plus, butthen also have this kind of
uniqueness of your your team isreally cool to see, too. Yeah,
okay, I have got two questionsleft. Sure, I already asked a
bad question, but I have to askanother one. It wasn't bad. I
yeah, I felt like, I felt like Icould have made it hard. I
thought it was just going to bea little bit harder. It's like a
(31:53):
softball. Oh, wow. All right,you know what, let's, let's,
let's really, let's really divein here. I am curious. I am
really curious, and I apologizefor not sending this over. And
if you don't want to answer it,I won't be offended in any way,
shape or form. How are how areyou within the current landscape
of 2025, current administration,some of the pressure around the
(32:17):
the mandates, clinical trials,you know, we talk about it a lot
on the manufacturing side, butcertainly here, you know, within
clinical trial landscape, howare you adapting your service
offering or your story thatyou're telling to be more
effective in this time? Or areyou not? Is it something that
you guys aren't seeing thatimpact at all? I'm curious.
(32:40):
I mean, it hasn't been a funyear. No, yeah, no. It hasn't
like, the amount of like changeand kind of the decision making
process, I think, for for this,I think there's what I've seen,
and I don't know if others wouldagree with this, so I'll just
put it out there that what I seehappening, at least
(33:00):
historically, in the last kindof six months of this year has
been this sort of like, youknow, the decision fatigue
phenomenon, you know, like, Ihave found that more often than
not, when I'm talking tosponsors, who are our buyers and
CEOs are our buyers as well,but, and ultimately, it's that
sponsor of the study. It's like,they love what we do. It's like,
(33:20):
that absolutely makes sense. Butwhen it comes down to the rubber
to the road, they're like, it'sjust one more decision. I just,
I'm not sure I can make anotherdecision right now. And so in
the world of decision fatigue,it has been a very difficult
thing. How do I address that?
You know, you've got to makethat value proposition
undeniable. Have I reached thegold standard of that absolutely
(33:41):
not. This is where the tinkeringconcept is continuing to come
into play. So, you know, we'vebeen able to use AI to adjust
our timelines for delivery andour pricing a little bit too,
because we have been able tofind efficiencies with that. You
know, we're talking about thevalue proposition as we as we
usually have, and I think it'stime to kind of be more case
study based on that, to showwhat other sponsors have done.
(34:04):
I'm not, I am not done with whenyou ask that question of, like,
how are you doing? Well, we'llsay, I'm still in development on
that. I think, you know, thepatience is key. Situation. I
don't want to be like, it's notgoing well make a change. Like,
I don't want to be that person.
I want to be like, what'shappening? What are the levers I
can pull to try to move the shipin a slightly different
(34:28):
direction? Is it going in theright direction? Let's pull it
harder. You know, it's that kindof thing. So it's, you know,
it's like, the rudder on theship. I'm not going to, like,
pull down the sails and retoolthe boat mid, mid sale. But it's
not, it's been a rough year.
Man,yeah, it, it? I love, thank you
for answering that. And I lovethe approach to you know, we
(34:49):
talk about all the time when youset a business strategy, a sales
strategy, a marketing strategy,the economic turmoil doesn't
mean that that strategy isnecessarily wrong. It. Just
might mean that we have to makesome pivots, but scrapping it
entirely is just as bad as asdoing nothing. Yeah, I was
trying to think there, there's abook that I read this past year
(35:11):
called the jolt effect. I don'tthink I have it here. And they,
they went through hundreds of1000s of B to B buying processes
over the last five years, andthe number one cause of of DOL,
of deals stalling out, was flatout analysis paralysis. It
wasn't that they decided thatthey were going to stay with
(35:32):
their own provider. It wasn'tthat they chose somebody else.
It was Holy shit. There is waytoo much going on, and we're
just gonna stick to the statusquo, because I'm afraid of six
months from now. I'm afraid of12 months now, we see it on the
marketing side. You know, it'sreally hard to move forward the
plan if I don't know what thesituation is going to be in six
(35:52):
months, let alone, you know,three weeks, who knows what the
CDC is going to come down like?
You know, there's things thatare changing consistently, and
so you know what we really talkabout when, when we're working
with our clients in that is thevalue, like you said, the value
proposition undeniable. If 95%of our audience is not ready to
buy today, how can we beabsolutely in that top three
(36:16):
consideration set and a nonnegotiable for them when they
are and if that means, yeah, wehave a down month, but it means
the next month or the nextquarter, we're in a better
position in that 3060, 90, 180880 day pipeline, then that's
where we have to shift our focusand being really top of mind.
And like you said, the casestudies, right? Like being able
to effectively tell thatproblem, solution, result is, is
(36:38):
so important, because right now,people aren't going to buy the
nice to have, you know, the niceto have is, is not a priority in
in today's market. And I thinkuntil there's a until there's a
month without chaos, it mightnot come back to having to being
a priority for a little while.
You know?
(36:58):
Yeah, I should clarify. We'redoing really well,
yeah. Like, I just want to makesure that I clear that. Like,
you know, we've been veryfortunate that our clients love
us, so they keep coming back formore. And we've, we've still are
very much on a growthtrajectory. But like, I like to
win big. Like, That's My nature,that's I've been in a startup,
(37:20):
we like to win big. It's like asickness for us. Anyone who's
been in a startup will feel thesame way. They'll be like, Yeah,
I see that.
I I've always wanted to run amarketing campaign for SCORR. I
think agency, it's the same way,like you have to be a little a
little messed up in the head.
And I've always wanted to run acampaign with me, like, hair
(37:42):
down and like, it's kind oflike, Are you a little sick?
That marketing agency is exactlywhat you want, and startups
have, like, kind of the same,the same feeling, yeah. And just
to say, when, when you answerthat for me, what I heard, you
know, in terms of, it's been atough year, is for our clients
and our clients, clients, it'sjust flat out, I don't know
(38:03):
necessarily. And so, you know,it is different buying, yeah,
it's a different cycle. I mean,I went, I went home from the
office yesterday, and this,we're recording this June 11,
and we see that the entirepanel, you know, 17 vaccine
experts, you know, gone out oftheir seat. And how does that
change things? And there's notdirect. A lot of times for our
(38:25):
clients, there's not a directone to one, but there is a Hey,
should we? Should we pause?
Should we? Should we not moveforward? Yeah, we're hesitant.
And so to me, that's where, youknow, a lot of this comes in.
Like you said, there's, there'sjust a flat out, like hesitancy
or, yeah, analysis paralysis,status quo. You don't, you don't
want to disrupt anything rightnow because of the the time that
(38:48):
we're in,yeah, and we're talking to
different people too. You know,some companies where I would
talk to a study team, they'relike, Well, we have an
innovation team to talk to younow. And sometimes the
innovation team is like, well,we let the study teams make
their own decisions. And so andthat, that even, I think in this
kind of year of of transition, alot of companies are taking that
as an opportunity to reorg. Andnot everyone, for sure, but I
(39:12):
think anyone listening to thiswill be like, Oh, I can name
three that are reorganizing offthe top of my head. And that
also then who you used tobuying, the process you're used
to working through for buyingthat's changing so that, I mean,
it's like everything just kindof like a little bit shifted, a
little bit different. Andfortunately, you know, we're
change agents here again. Thatcomes from being a startup,
(39:34):
probably also with a marketingagency, yeah? So I'm ready to
roll with that. It just adds alittle layer of complexity to it
for sure, which is, tell youwhat in an acquisition, that's
not what I need. Want to besimple and easy.
Yeah, that's great. Keeps you onyour toes. That's for damn sure.
That keeps you on your toes.
Okay? I just looked at theclock. I looked at it like 20
(39:57):
minutes ago, and suddenly we'rewe're at. Time, and I'm going to
be respectful of your time,because this has been just a
fantastic episode. I do think,you know, maybe we'll have to
have a second part, just moreabout the adaptive learning and
some of the things that you'reseeing for the future. But I, I
want to give you an opportunity.
We kind of talked about a randomamount of things here, so
(40:20):
wherever you want to go, I liketo say, you know, give, give
your final takeaway. You know,if the team is going to be at a
trade show soon, where can theyfind you things like that? Or,
yeah, some people just want togive an elevator pitch. But I'll
give you the microphone for the,you know, the last minute or so
here, and let us know whatyou're thinking.
(40:40):
Yeah, I'm never, never reallybeen one for the elevator pitch.
Like I try not to sell because Idon't think anyone wants to be
sold to. But I do think that,you know, I do focus on the
learning side. I focus onlearning because I feel like it
is such a critical way ofdriving quality in clinical
trials. When you're trying totake a protocol across hundreds
of sites globally, or even 10sites locally for a smaller
(41:03):
focus study, looking for ways toimpact quality long term is
important. I do think learningis a way to do that. There's a
lot of great learning providersout there, and I think it's
worthwhile to look at literallyany other solution than a
PowerPoint deck. So that's myplea for the industry. Is to
you. Never do another 200 pagePowerPoint deck ever again.
(41:26):
Nobody wants to deck.
Death to the PowerPoint. I amYes, all in on I will double and
triple down to that, right?
Absolutely don't make itPowerPoint. Don't
watch it. Don't we can help, butso can others.
Yeah, well, find anothersolution. I have even said, if
you're going to do thePowerPoint, do a video. Like, do
(41:48):
a video of you talking throughthe power. Send it ahead of
time. Do other things like, justbe more creative. It's no one
wants to sit here, yeah, and beinvolved with that. You know?
I mean, Harvard literallypublished a study saying that
PowerPoint was worse thanuseless, because the cognitive
dissonance of reading andlistening is physically like you
physically can't do two at thesame time, so the minute you
(42:09):
have, like, a lot of words onyour deck, you just went wrong.
I say this because, and I'vedone a deck with words on the
slide, and I've been an offenderin the past, and when I do it,
I'm like, why am I doing this?
Everyone should ask themselvesthe same thing, words on a deck.
No,that's it. That's the episode
right there. I have to pullthat. That is that, that
(42:31):
Harvard, that Harvard dropHarvard, and we will be linking
that study. Jenna, this. Thishas been absolutely fantastic.
Worth the the price of admissionfor our listeners, which is $0
but it is still just anincredible listen. I really
appreciate you taking the timeto share your insights and your
(42:51):
expertise and and also just yourpassion. You know this is it's
one of the reasons that Istarted the podcast. Was just
getting to hear stories andskill sets. And right out of the
gate. I could tell you werecoming in on the jet pack, ready
to go, and I am extremelyappreciative of that. I know our
listeners will be as well. Ifyou are listening to this and
(43:12):
you want to reach out to Jenna,because you're either like me
and you think that her passionis fantastic, or the solution is
fantastic, reach out to her onLinkedIn. If you want to have an
introduction, reach out to me,and I'll send over an email. And
I'm assuming that if you'relistening to this, you thought
the episode was just absolutelyperfect, so you should rate it
(43:32):
five stars. You can leave areview. You can subscribe to the
SCORR cast. You are episode 50.
I believe Jenna, which is such abig deal. We started it in July
of 2024, and we have done oneevery week since July of 2024,
and so we are so close to week52 here for a full year's worth
of episodes, that I couldn'tthink of a better way to come
(43:55):
into number 50 than to hear yourexpertise and you get to share a
little bit more of your story.
So thank you again. Jenna, thankyou for having me as
always. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the SCORRCAST
(44:19):
brought to you by SCORRMarketing, we appreciate your
time and hope you found thisdiscussion insightful. Don't
forget to subscribe and join usfor our next episode. Until
then, remember, marketing issupposed to be fun.
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