From Home Business to a Growing Warehouse (ft. XXL Scrunchie & CO)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And then eventually my bedroombecame like, there's boxes

(00:03):
beside me and I had to, like,climb over things and sleep and
wake up in boxes.
Yes, I'd.
Say that's an indication youneed a bigger space.
You're crawling over things.
That was the big one.
Hello everybody I'm.
Jared.

(00:23):
Hi, I'm Melinda, and welcome.
Back to The SecretLife of Inventory.
This is a show wherewe talk about all things
inventory management, and weuncover the hidden mysteries
that can help businesses likeyou optimize their
workflow and succeed.
Today, we have a very specialguest all the way
from Belleville, Ontario.
Tina Nguyen.
She's a founder ofXXL scrunchie, and her journey
started fromhumble beginnings, where she

(00:44):
turned one of her mom'sold t shirts into an oversized
scrunchie as a Christmas giftfor her cousin.
From there, it grewinto a full fledged business,
and since then, she's amassedover a million followers across
her socials, and she gained theinterest of investors on CBC's
hit reality show Dragon's Den.
Yeah.
Tina is.
It's a growthis incredibly impressive.
She started off just kindof a solo operation just

(01:05):
in her apartment.
Then she moved in with herparents to help her as she
started to grow.
And now she's in a giantwarehouse where she manages a
whole team of people.
But, you know,beyond the brand, Tina is
actually a creativeentrepreneur that started off
as a mural artist.
So today we're going to kind oftalk to Tina about her journey
as a small business owner,how she started off, you know,
maybe some tips and tricks forother business owners.
And then we're going to end theepisode off kind of talking

(01:25):
about something that's verytopical right now, and that's
going to be about the UStariffs and how those might
impact smallbusinesses like Tina's.
Welcome to the show, Tina.
Thanks, guys.
So before we get into,you know, all of the fun stuff
from inventory and businessoperations and all that,
why don't we kind of likerewind and go back to the
very beginning, you know, like,what was life like for you

(01:46):
before XXL,scrunchie and company?
Um, so before XXL scrunchie,I was like, how far should we
go back?
When I was a baby, I um, well,I remember elementary school.
I really loved art.
That was my favorite class.
I always had a sketchbook andsame with high school.
That was always my favorite.

(02:06):
But I mean, my family,mostly my parents,
obviously wanted me tobe a doctor.
They really encouraged thatjust because it was something
they could like, see could besuccessful even back then.
Typical Asian parents.
Yes yes.
Yes.
Lawyers, doctors you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They were like the ones you seeas successful, which is true.
But I wasn't in lovewith that and I wasn't

(02:28):
passionate about that.
And I remember I did I appliedto art school like secretly I
didn't tell anyone and Ididn't get in.
I don't think I got into any ofmy top choice schools, but I
did end up going toUniversity of Toronto.
But I dropped out one week inbecause I was so overwhelmed,
and I remember crying andcalling my dad to move home.

(02:50):
So he moved me back home.
That same semester, I went toUniversity of Ottawa and it
took me like fiveyears to graduate.
I just and I thinkI failed like Intro to Psych.
I just wasn'tprepared for university.
Life is such a drastic change.
Oh, God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't even know what I wasdoing or what I wanted to do.
And by the time I graduated,I was like, okay,

(03:10):
this is the end.
Like, what do I do?
And then I went backto college for graphic design.
And then I had to explain tomy parents, like, what do you
want to go back to school?
And then they're also like,what is graphic design?
Like, how do you explaingraphic design to your parents?
Knew that you loved art, right?
Yeah.
So they always supported it andthey were like encouraged me to

(03:31):
go and they were happyabout it and understood later.
And from there I itwas a three year program.
So the last year, like Istarted building up clients
actually for social mediaand designing logos.
And while you're in school.
Yeah, because I knew like Ineeded that for when I ended
school to actually havesomething to show to work

(03:51):
for another company.
Smart building your portfolio.
Yes.
That was my goal thewhole time, which is, I thought
this whole time I wanted towork for a company, but then I
didn't getall these internships.
I applied for that.
All my friends wereapplying for it.
It's like, oh, you get to workat these music festivals and
help build the branding.
And then I did work at amarketing company when I was

(04:11):
off one summerbetween the semesters.
And then I rememberbeing like, you don't get any
creative freedom, like you'rejust doing you're designing a
brochure for someone.
And yeah, it's graphic design,but it's not like
your own design.
Yeah, it's like guidelines youhave to follow confined
to the box.
Yes.
And I was like, well,this is really strict and like,

(04:31):
it's weird.
I thought I wanted allthese things, but then I didn't
once I got them, and then Istarted painting murals in my
own bedroom,like in my apartment.
And I showed some ofmy clients, my social media
clients that I was managingbecause they own some
salons and spas.
I was like, can I do this?
And they said, yeah,and I started filming them.
Yeah.

(04:52):
So then my last yearof college, I dropped out
because I was startingto get clients.
Mural clients reach out and Iwas like, hey, my homework is
now over powering real work.
Yeah, it's like, makemoney or spend too hard.
Yeah, easy to like.
I was doing like mockinterviews at the end of
college and I was like,but I'm already getting like,
real clients, so I hadto drop out.

(05:13):
But it was like one day afterthe refund date, I was like, ah.
Stuff happens.
Yeah, yeah.
And then I was doing,I was gonna go full time
mural artist.
I was going all in on this.
I was so excited at so many,like, clients meeting up with
me and like, reachingout and finding me, like,
on Google and stuff.
Oh, wow.
But then it was that Christmaswhere I made a scrunchie for

(05:34):
my cousin, and thenthat's when I.
Scrunchies kind of overtookthat because I was like, I need
to go all inon this opportunity.
How did you.
Even start making scrunchies inthe first place?
Well, I was kind of making somefor myself to put my hair up,
and then I wanted to make onefor my cousin because first
of all, your dropout andthen no money.

(05:55):
So your college dropout studentwith no money, and then
my cousin's, like, it's hard toget personal gifts for people
or to buy peoplethings that they already have.
So I was like,I want to make gifts.
So I made one out of my mom'sold shirt, and I only made it
really big and oversizedbecause her hair is
like so long.
And then that's why I made thefirst scrunchie just as a gift.

(06:18):
At what point did you realizethat it could actually become a
business?
Um, well, that night when sheopened her gift, I wasn't even
in the same room,and I wasn't like, oh,
you're gonna love it.
I was just like, oh, whatever.
She went up to me andwas like, you made this.
She was so amazed.
She posted it on her accountson social media, and already a
bunch of people were like,where do I get one?
How do I buy one?
And she also ownsa salon in Thunder Bay.

(06:41):
It's called Vitality Beauty andCo and she's like, I can
sell them there.
So I alreadyhad sales technically.
Hmm.
That's nice.
And her.
Customers?
Yeah, that's somegreat synergy actually.
The fact that she has a salon.
I mean, that's a perfect placeto sell scrunchies to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
She also is a business owner,so she could give me tips and
was like, you cando this, like, just start.

(07:02):
But I did say no.
I was like, what doyou mean, start a business?
Like I'm trying to do my murals.
Mhm.
So it is scary at firststarting something new right.
You don't know what'sgoing to happen.
So what were thoseearly days like.
You know like gettingthose first customers.
You know setting up your shoplike what was that experience
like for you?
Um, looking back I lookat it as a fun time.
But in the midst of it, it wasso stressful because I didn't

(07:23):
know how to ship things.
Um, I didn't I didn'thave a car.
I was living alone inmy apartment, and just even
getting to places was hardbecause I was in Toronto.
Yeah, I had to, like, go on thebus with all my packages,
and it was winter, soI had my park on everything.
I'm sweating.
Yeah.
And then I got to the postoffice to mail, like, my first

(07:45):
shipment of packages.
And I'm waiting in thishuge line, and I'm also
drenched because I'm sweatingfrom getting there.
And then I get to the frontand like, it costs like $20 to
mail something like thislittle within Toronto.
And I was like, oh,this is so stressful.
But like, how else do I ship?
And that was the onlyway I knew how to ship.
Oh, geez.
So I just kind of like learningthrough trial and error.
And then eventually people werelike giving me tips and like,

(08:07):
you know, you canuse this instead.
And I was like, oh, I canactually ship straight from
Shopify and print my labelsat home, drop them off.
So there's a lot of likemistakes at the beginning.
And I see howpeople help you, though.
It's always tough runninga business alone.
Yeah.
I mean, there must have beenmoments where you felt like
giving you up or it'slike really tough.
So what were some of the keymilestones that motivated you
to keep on going?
Um, luckily it was only I thinkI lasted a month alone until I

(08:31):
called my mom and I was like,mom, this other business like,
has their mom helping, like,can you help?
And she's like, yeah,just move home.
And I was like, okay,because they were just retiring.
They owned a restaurant forlike so many years, and they
just sold it.
And we're just aboutto retire, which is like
perfect timing for me.
So Anymore.
So their business ownerstoo then, so they can probably

(08:52):
give you some tipsand tricks, I'm sure.
Yeah for sure.
It seems like you havea lot of business owners in
your family.
Yes.
There's more than.
You're born to bea business owner.
Yeah.
I saw it growing up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How is it likeworking with your family?
Um, at first it was.
There wasn't even, like,a thought about it.
Just when I moved home thefirst night, I had to get a

(09:13):
rental car and, like,drive all my stuff home.
And I was stillpaying rent here.
And by the time I got home,I just, like, unloaded.
And that was like the firstnight off I took in,
like a month.
Yeah.
And I remember beingso glad to be home.
And then the next morning itwas just like chaos because I
had to catch up on orders.
I was selling scrunchies thatweren't made yet because I
didn't want to lose the sales,but I knew I had the fabric

(09:36):
I see, and then I hadto catch up my mom and dad
on packaging.
And then one tip someone fromthe post office gave me was,
you can put your packages inthese little bags, and if
they're thin enough, they canship for like $2.
Oh wow.
Okay, so we are.
Putting them in sandwich bagsbecause that's all we.
Had.
And then the air would seep outand then we would like seal
the package completely.

(09:56):
And then we had to open themall up to seal them back.
Because if they're too thickthey'll deny it.
So I remember there was likethis table full of packages,
like we're seeping out again.
And then Iwas like, started crying.
And I was like, why are they.
And they're like, redo it.
And I just remember being sostressed and like putting that
stress on my parents.
But I'm so glad Ihad their help.
There's no way I could havegrown at all without.

(10:19):
Parents work for youand your brother.
And yeah, I think I saw youmentioned how you're on an
uncle's also work.
Yeah, they're not like mydirect aunt and uncle,
but they're like.
So my brother's wife,it's her aunt and uncle.
Okay.
But, like, still like extendedfamily.
Yeah.
Basically family.
Yeah, yeah.
You see them all comingup in your content a lot.
I think one of my, my favoritecharacters that I see

(10:39):
is your dad.
He seems like sucha sweet, sweet guy.
And he.
He seems to always be doing,like, whatever he can for you.
You know, you see him actuallyworking on scrunchies with
by hand, and you'll see him,like bringing in boxes that
he's sourcing fromother people, you know,
which is just like, it's justawesome to see that kind
of help, you know.
Mhm.
So I mean you started off,you know, just doing this solo
operation in your tiny little400 square foot apartment.

(11:02):
You're now, you know, in thisbig warehouse, can you kind of
give us some insightsinto like, like what kind of
triggered the the thought,you know, I need a bigger space.
I need to move intoa bigger warehouse.
Was there any specific momentor did it kind of just happen
gradually over time?
And what was that like movinginto that warehouse?
It was it did happen prettyquick because after it was a

(11:22):
year and a half, wemoved into our first warehouse.
And I remember because it waseight months in, I took over my
parent's livingroom basically, and then
my bedroom too.
There's just boxes everywhere.
And then their basement justkind of needed like
a little renovation.
They had so much like storagedown there, but it was like two
big empty rooms.
So then it was nine months in,we renovated and we're working

(11:43):
in their basement.
But then my mom was stillcutting fabric upstairs, so it
was still like a whole housetaken over, except for the
kitchen and the laundry roomand stuff like that.
And then eventually my bedroombecame like, there's boxes
beside me and I had to, like,climb over things and.
Sleep and wake up in boxes.
Yes, I'd.
Say that's an indication youneed a bigger space.
So crawling over things, that.

(12:04):
Was the big one.
I know it's all black, but thenI could tell it was like taking
a little toll onmy mom because she, like,
needs her space.
She's very organized.
And I also wanted my own spacebecause we just kept, like,
running into.
Yeah.
And then I was going to rent,like a home and then live there

(12:25):
and then work out of there.
But then we're so lucky wefound this warehouse that was
near our house, and itwas like a great price,
really big space.
My dad was so nervous becausehe came to look.
He's like, no,get the smaller one.
I was like, this one's likesmaller than your house.
What do you.
Mean?
But he was so nervous becauseit's like you're
signing five years.
Well, that is a.
It's such a risk.

(12:45):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But now it's like, oh,we're five years and two months.
Yeah, it's just crazy.
Time goes by so quick.
Yeah.
You bet on yourself though.
You gave yourself roomto grow, which is important.
I mean, last thing I think youwould want would be to have to
move again, right?
Yeah.
We did move.
Again.
Oh, jeez.
Okay.
Second warehouse.
Yeah.
It was.
I think it was like we only inthat first warehouse.
It was 2000ft²for like, nine months.

(13:07):
And they had this other storageroom that they locked up.
And I was like, canwe open that and use it?
And then we'll pay for theextra square footage and then
they're like, oh, we havethis other space.
So they let me look.
And that's nice that theyreferred you to a different
ones in the same building.
Yeah.
Oh that's perfect.
Yeah.
And they let me like customizeit to like what size I needed.
And I could build littlerooms within it.

(13:27):
And then I moved.
So we were only ninemonths in that current space.
And then we moved to the nextone and got to upgrade.
It's like I think it's5000ft² right now.
Wow.
They're very.
Cool.
So when you first started,you were a one man team
doing everything, and now youhave this whole team behind you.
So how many peopleare on your team now?
There's eight, including myself,and then half of it's my family.

(13:50):
And what was that transitionlike for you to expand your
team?
Um.
Looking back, I would have doneit differently because
I'm such, like,a friendly person.
And then I was so used toworking with my family and then
my not not my cousin,but basically family again,
Cindy was always there helpingme during the pandemic.
My best two bestfriends were helping me during

(14:11):
the pandemic, so I wasused to working with friends.
Yeah, and then Ididn't realize, like, you need
to be like someone's bossand someone's leader.
You can't just be their friend.
There has to belike a boundaries.
Yeah.
So I didn't realize that untilI was hiring two for new people
because I hired our seamstresswho's still with us.
And then I hired my bestfriend's younger sisters

(14:33):
and their friends.
So I had these threehigh school students.
And then I really I didn'trealize I needed to
do structure, and there shouldbe weekly meetings and that
they can't read my mind.
I was like, why are.
They doing it like this?
Obviously they don't know.
I have to say things.
And I wasn't used to likedevoting time to other people,
but I needed to learn todelegate as well and not,

(14:55):
like micromanage and explainthings carefully and take time
to like, nurture them as well.
But it was hard because, like,I need my time to do all
these things, but then like.
Juggling for sure.
Yeah.
So time management and likebeing a leader was like a big
lesson to learn.
What would you say are theother main challenges you faced
while growing andmanaging the team?

(15:17):
Um, I think nowit's like work life balance.
It's hard because I was workingduring the pandemic, I didn't
have any social obligations tofeel guilty about.
I could just work crazy hoursand not feel bad about it.
But now it's like, I don't feelbad going to events, but I just
feel hard being pulled awayfrom work, right?

(15:37):
Because there's just like it'sa never ending to do list.
Yeah, just set thatboundary for yourself.
Like this is business.
This is personal.
Mhm.
Yeah.
So I mean obviously managinginventory is a huge part of any
goods based business.
I'm sure youprobably understand that.
It seems like you're seeing alot of your content.
You just have massive amountsof inventory that you have to
take care of.
So I was just wondering kind oflike how how do you manage your

(16:00):
stock levels?
How do you make sure that youknow everything is getting
shipped efficiently andeffectively?
Well, for inventory,it's just hard.
I wish someone else coulddo it because it's my least
favorite thing, because we havescrunchies being made, and then
we have scrunchies that arelike the tubes before you put
the elastic in.
So we have like allthis tube inventory.
And then we have likepre-cut fabric inventory.

(16:23):
So you have your raw materialsand your finished products and
lots of things to worry about.
Yeah.
And then we also have like thatstuff at my aunt and uncle's
house that I have to manage.
They mostly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Multiple locations you gotto worry about.
Yeah.
And then like multiple peopleworking on different things,
I need to make sure they're notall sewing the same thing.
And then we have to keep trackof what's running low to make

(16:46):
sure we prioritize sewing that.
So it's a lot.
But with order fulfillment,I think we have that pretty
organized because they allcome through Shopify.
Okay.
And then we have this like justthis spreadsheet where we write
down the order we left off onlast because we y so.
We have a thing.
That we are.
Constantly talkingtrash about spreadsheets.

(17:06):
Oh, well, it's a Google.
Sheet just because Ican manage it from home.
And no, no shade.
We, uh, we used.
To write this down on Google.
Sheets too, but, uh,we always prefer inventory
management software, which is,uh, we obviously we're biased
towards it, but anytime someonementioned spreadsheets,
we kind of.
Give each other look like.
That's why I don't haveany problem spreadsheets.
But he.
Does.

(17:27):
Yeah.
I just, uh.
No.
Yeah.
I was like, maybe I need that.
Thank you.
So I mean, you work inobviously fashion and apparel
in that industry obviouslyrelies a lot on like
trends and, you know,seasonality and stuff like that.
So how do you kind of manageyour demand forecasting with
those things in mind?
I think I've just been luckybecause I don't I
don't forecast trends.

(17:47):
I don't look for them.
I just feel like we just lookfor cute fabric and then we
plan it ahead.
Like this Valentines drop.
It actually sold outand I wasn't expecting that.
That's awesome.
And then we have springcollections coming up.
So we plan for seasons okay.
Like we do colors and stufffor seasons, but we don't
plan specific trends.
And I'm lucky my mom actuallypicks out some fabric.

(18:09):
Oh nice.
Hers usually sell out first.
Oh really?
Oh.
So she's got likethe magic touch then that.
Yeah.
Very cool.
So XXL scrunchie originallystarted with just scrunchies,
but since then you've expandedyour product line to include
hair claws, satin pillowcases,and even dog accessories.
So how did you decide likewhich products to expand?
Was it something you alwayswanted to do?
I knew I wanted to expand,so that's why we called it XXL

(18:33):
and Co, just like the realcompany name, just so it wasn't
tied down to scrunchies.
And then we didexpand to other scrunchy sizes.
Once I saw like, oh.
Like people don't just wear thebig size, so I want to
be more inclusive.
And then with hair claw clips,my friend suggested it and I
was scared because I thoughtlike no one would wear

(18:53):
scrunchies anymore if I soldhair claw clips.
But it's like our second bestnext to scrunchies now and then
with the dog products.
That just kind of came becauseI got a dog.
Yeah.
Bruce.
Yeah, my otherfavorite character.
Yeah.
And then with we did beachtowels with my artwork and then
tote bags just because I wasstarting to use things.

(19:14):
So I kind of.
Use them to.
Carry launch things as I seewith things I use so that it's
like feels a bit more authentic.
Yeah.
So what was that whole processlike with expanding your
product line?
Um, it was a little nervewracking because you're always
taking a risk and you can'tjust sell like one item.
You have to, like makea couple things to sell.

(19:34):
So it's always a riskand a chance to take.
So I mean obviously that'sgoing to expand your
your SKUs, your productofferings quite a bit.
So did that change how youkind of, you know,
your processes like in-house,did you change how you manage
your inventory, how you filledyour orders, or did you maybe
set things in place that werekind of scalable in the
beginning?
I think it changed because wedid add bar barcodes to all

(19:56):
of our products.
Yay! We love barcodes.
SKUs.
Lots of.
SKUs.
Yeah, which I never did beforebecause we would just sell
scrunchies and I would memorizewhere everything was like,
I would just wewouldn't even organize it
in alphabetical order.
But now it is, andthen it's organized by SKU.
And then once the productstarted growing so much and
the team, I was like, okay,they can't operate like me.

(20:17):
I need to like put systems inplace so people can be
trainable as well.
So it just kind of grew as westarted getting more products.
Do you still fulfill yourorders kind of all the same
way since, uh, since that?
Um, no.
Before I was like, reading,I would look on the iPad at the
order and I would memorizethe order, and then I would go
grab it, and then Iwould go look at it again.
Okay, I missed.

(20:37):
One and then go stab it.
Which is so bad.
I did that for so long.
And then we started printingoff packing slips, which had
like a list so Icould walk around with that.
But I would still walk aroundwith it and just like grab.
So if someone orderedtwo things, even if we
circled it, I wouldonly grab one.
I would always do that.
So many customers wouldbe like, I ordered two.

(20:57):
Why did I get one?
So lots of mistakes.
And that's when we figured outthe scanning system that we
have now to likescan to verify each item.
So we'll scan something, pick itand then scan and it
makes an error noise.
If we scan the wrong item.
It takes off a lotof mental load.
Yes.
Yeah.
Was it hard to implement thosebarcodes initially or was it.
Kind of I remember I.

(21:18):
Kept googling like away andthen I was like, oh,
this is too hard.
Like I can't figure it out.
And then finally I was like,okay, I'm going to sit down.
Took like two days max of fullyfigure it out, maybe took a day
to like, print all the barcodesoff and like, get the tape them
on every item.
Um.
Did you just create your ownbarcodes or custom barcodes?
Or did.
You go through.
A Shopify.
App?

(21:38):
Oh, okay.
Very cool.
Okay.
So you just generatedall your own.
Oh very cool.
Nice.
Yeah.
I didn't know it was.
Could be that easy.
Yeah.
Because peoplealways message me.
They're like, where didyou buy your barcodes?
I was like, buy.
Why would I buy them?
You just like, make them up.
Yeah, yeah.
There's a lot.
You don't know when you'refirst starting a business.
So just a lot of questions.
Yeah.
It just theyseem so intimidating.
Yeah.
But then once you sit down anddo it, which is like kind of

(21:59):
story of everything on my todo list, I just sit down and
just do it.
And it's not so bad.
Entrepreneurship like you know.
Yeah, it as you go.
So other than barcodes,are there any other like tools
or software things that youwould use that you would can't
live without for your business?
Um, for sure.
Shopify, because that justhosts all of our inventory.
That's how people place ordersand it goes through on our site.

(22:20):
And then we use ship station,which is how we scan to verify
our products and printout all those packing slips.
And then we use each shippernow to ship our items, and they
give us discountedrates and they can
actually ship worldwide.
So when the CanadaPost we should.
Kind of post like, yeah, I.
Used to ship withthem for years.

(22:41):
And then it was that followingsummer I switched to E shipper
to get better rates and to beable to actually ship worldwide
because our customer reachedlike people in Vietnam were
paying like $100 just tobuy one scrunchie.
I was like.
Oh, they couldprobably support you.
Yeah, they would probably buymore and support us more if it
was cheaper for shipping.
Yeah.
So I finally switched toE shipper, which was it's just

(23:03):
so hard to switch things whenyou're already using it.
Yeah a system and it's you hadto do like training and like
you have to enter thesethings in differently.
But now I.
Worked out likethe perfect time.
Yes, I know, I.
Can't imagine switchingduring that time.
I wouldn't be like cryingbecause it was Black Friday.
So it's like.
Oh God, most.
Orders ever come in that time.
Yeah, it's definitely not thetime you want to be

(23:25):
changing any processes.
Definitely not.
So I mean, why don't we talkabout a little bit about
something that a lot of smallbusiness owners kind of ask
us about it.
And that's.
Working with suppliers,you know, I'm sure it was.
You came from a worldof being a mural artist.
So finding suppliers,manufacturers, things like that
was probably really,really hard.
Um, can you kind of takeus through, like how you
started sourcing thoseto begin with?

(23:46):
Yeah, at first it seemed likeimpossible because it just
seems like big businesses haveaccess to these, but everyone
kind of does.
So when I firstsourced fabric, I went to the
fabric store,just the local one.
And then I remember like goingup to the manager lady and
being like, can I buylike a lot of these?
And can we getlike a good price?
Yeah.
And then it neverreally worked out that way.
And then I saw onthe edge of the fabric label

(24:08):
like the manufacturer.
And then I found outhow to contact head office.
Oh, it's a direct.
Yes.
And then that's very smart.
So much money.
And I was like, Thank God Ibought that roll of fabric to
find their name.
And then they're just inToronto as well.
So very cool.
So nice and local like that.
Yeah, yeah.
So when you're sourcingthings like, you know,

(24:29):
your fabrics and all your rawmaterials and everything.
Is there something that youlook for specifically?
Like, is it like quality?
Is it cost?
Is it, uh, design?
Yeah.
Um, it's definitely like thematerial and the feel because
it has to, like, feelgood as well because it's right
on their hair.
Right.
And then definitely costbecause we can only spend so
much to be able to make so much.

(24:51):
Yeah.
You want to keep those margins.
Of course.
Yeah.
Mhm.
And then definitely sourcing.
So I'm glad we were able tofind our supplier in Toronto.
Yeah.
It's very I lovethat their uh local supplier.
It's very cool.
So I think why don't we move onto wholesale actually um
obviously selling wholesale.
It opens up this whole newavenue of, you know,
potential revenue, a lotof new customers and whatnot.
But of course, with that,there's challenges that come

(25:12):
along with that.
So can you maybe walkus through, you know, when you
decided to sell wholesale andyou know, how it may be shifted
or reshaped yourkind of your business?
Yeah, I was lucky becausemy cousin, like, basically made
me start as wholesale.
Because she bought.
Like 60 the.
First within the.
First two weeks.
And I was like, ohmy God, I have to make
all these scrunchies.
And.

(25:32):
Then cheese.
What made me think to reach outto my previous two mural
clients that werealso salon owners.
Yeah.
And they're like, I just textedthem a photo and the scrunchies
were just like on my bed.
And it was like, didn't lookprofessional at all.
And I was like,you want to buy these?
They're like, yeah, we'll take30, we'll take 40.
And I was like, oh no, mom.
I need your help.

(25:52):
So I kind.
Of trickled in thatway, luckily.
And then I saw the benefits ofit because customers were
finding me through thesalon in person because
we're just online.
We had nowhere that couldbe in person.
So how you found thatfabric person, they found you
through this?
Yeah.
So it kind of gave me like myown storefront without all the
risk of it all.
Yeah, that's very cool.

(26:12):
But I did have one.
I forgot about this.
I did have one.
Like, not greatwholesale opportunity.
She was buying like so many andthey were selling out like
within the day she would buylike 60 or 70 at a time.
And I would hang them in like aplastic garbage bag on my front
door because it was a pandemicand she would go pick them up,
but she it wasjust like such high demand.

(26:36):
We couldn't keep up.
So she felt stress from hercustomers being disappointed.
And she was trying to getscrunchies before they even
launched because we would dolimited drops and she would
want them beforethey would launch.
And all this wascommunicated over email.
So it was just likethey misunderstood me.
And they they just like,weren't able to understand,

(26:56):
like I need to put like ouronline sales first because we I
need to prioritize us first.
And I just couldn't make enoughfor her at the time.
So that was oneof the most stressful ones.
And now I justreally communicate, like,
we might not be able to fulfillyour whole order like
we are handmade.
And I just really likeemphasize that now is a lesson
learned on communicating.
And then I have a call.

(27:17):
Now if they ifI feel like any tension.
Yeah that'sviolation through text.
So yeah callingis probably easier.
Mhm.
So when you're fulfilling youryour wholesale orders Is it?
The same process iswhen you're doing your your
directed customer orders.
It's kind of old school, so Istill have them send me a list
with their quantity.
And then I need toreview to make sure we have

(27:37):
enough inventory,because sometimes they'll pick
an item and they'll be like twoleft and I'll be like, oh,
do you want to picka different one than that one?
Put yourself inthe same situation.
Yes.
So they still have to send it.
We don't have like awholesale portal, but that
would be cool one day.
But it's just so hard because.
Yeah, it's just so hard becauseour stuff's moving in and out.
Because they could wait, like,three days and we could have

(27:58):
that color made for them.
But we can't put thaton a portal.
Right?
Yeah.
So SSL scrunchie and Cohas a huge online presence.
And a big part of it is how youauthentically show up online
all the time.
And you do an amazing jobat posting consistently.
So I was just wondering how doyou approach content creation?
Um, well, back.
Then I thought I had to posteverything like perfect, and I

(28:21):
remember posting like ascrunchie on my wrist and like
I needed a blank background andthe lighting needed
to be perfect.
Product shots.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But that's like total oppositeof what I think anyone should
do because I just started todocument what we were doing.
And then when I looked at itlike that, it was less of a
chore and I was like, wait,I'm already doing this,
why don't I just film it ?
Yeah.

(28:41):
So I just try tolook at everything.
That everything is content.
Yeah.
I mean.
You come across theauthenticity I think of your
content is, I think what reallyshines through, you know,
you you come acrossas a very real person.
You're everyone in your orbitseems very real.
And they seem to be, you know,enjoying themselves.
So I think it is contagious.
It's really more relatable tolike you show you in the real

(29:01):
work environment versus liketrying to
make everything perfect.
Yeah.
Since content creation is acore part of your business,
how do you balance it to like,do you block out your calendar
like this is content time?
This is business time?
Or do you justlet it flow naturally?
Um, well.
I if there's like a launchcoming up, I try to make sure I
make these certain videos intime for the launch because
some things are time sensitive.
But then there's some thingsI just like.

(29:23):
I'll be scrolling and get inspo,and then I just like
put it in my little notionnotes of to make later.
So I don't really.
I try to time blogif needed, but not really.
But I try to.
I do like the tasks at work Ihave to do first, like make
sure the inventory is ready,make sure the team's up to date
with their meetings, and then Igo into content with

(29:43):
my spare time.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Like the admins first and thenyou have more time to play
I guess afterwards.
And then create.
And then from there it justkind of like flows.
Yeah.
But do you find.
Like certain types of contentwork better than other types or.
Um, I don't know.
I feel like I'mstill experimenting, like I
know the stories and thepackaging do best, but then

(30:04):
sometimes I'll post like arandom one that I made within
like two seconds, and then itwill just blow up.
So it's so like unpredictable.
And I'm still so confused with.
Algorithms like what you like.
Right.
And then see how it goes.
Yeah, yeah.
But it's mostlylike about consistency.
Like that's like the main thing.
I mean you have a hugecommunity and you even have
your committee involved innaming your product.

(30:25):
So do you have any tips on howto build a strong community?
Um, I think just not onlyasking for their input,
but sharing.
Like the losses or mistakes Ishare a lot of
mistakes I've made.
I even I just posted a storybecause we have our packager
who's unforeseen circumstances.
She's away for like a month andI have this trip planned.

(30:47):
I leave tomorrow that I've hadplanned for a while, but I
didn't know anyone would be away to not pack orders.
So I had a Ijust posted to my story.
Like, guys, I was thinking ofcancelling this trip because
we've never not packed ordersfor like over a week and like
there might be a customer thatwill cancel because they might
not want to wait twoweeks and then wait for the
shipping time.

(31:08):
So that was hard to balance.
Um, so I just feel like sharingeverything with them, like even
if you're struggling tounderstand person to.
Yeah, I thinkeveryone goes through hardships
and exactly failures.
I mean, they're learningexperiences ultimately,
and other people can learnfrom your failures.
Which is better for them,I guess, right?
Posting that.

(31:28):
Stuff.
It's almost like at first I wasand then now it's kind
of like therapy.
Like free therapy.
Yeah, they give me advice backto and then they're like,
still rooting me on.
Do you find that people withinthat community do you find
there's other small businessowners like you as well?
Yeah, there's so many smallbusiness owners out there that
message me, and they even sendme things from their small

(31:49):
business and they're like,help me.
Yeah, they're.
Like, you made me start.
And I post quite a bit of mytips now on how I started my
channels and like how I packorders because I get so many
questions like, can youhelp me do this?
And I was like, there's no wayI can type this all out.
So I make videos instead.
And then this kind of actuallyinspired me to start mentorship

(32:10):
later this year.
Oh, that's maybe.
Do like 1 to 1 calls.
Or maybe if they're nearby theycan come in person.
So I really want tostart that to help people.
Yeah that'd be.
Nice.
Yeah.
It's very cool how we found you.
Well, Jared found you througha barcoding video.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
One of your barcodingvideos is, like, popping off.
It's.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It's doing really well.
I know the one.

(32:31):
Yeah.
So, yeah, we I mean,we love barcodes.
We have barcoding built rightinto our software.
So like, we talk about it a lot.
We have actually one of ourepisodes in the first season is
all about barcodes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So um, and it's really popular.
People love it.
They, um, like you said,it's setting up a barcode
system is very daunting inthe beginning, so we'd like to
break it down justa couple clicks.
Exactly right, if youthink about it.

(32:51):
Yeah, exactly.
So, yeah, we want to make itmore manageable and help,
you know, like you said,smaller business owners as well
on their journey.
So yeah, it's cool that you'redoing the same thing.
Yeah.
So next up we want to talk toyou about your appearance
on Dragon's Den.
So when you were firstapproached by the producer to
apply for the show and then yougot casted, what was that
moment like foryou in your business?

(33:12):
Um, I remember that exact daybecause I went to the gym and
then I didn't bring a change ofclothes and my gym's at
my work, so I was like, okay,I have to wear my sweaty
clothes all day?
And then I got a call, and I.
I hate answering calls where Idon't know who it is.
And I just googledthe number right away after.
And no caller ID either.
It's just like.
It was just a number.
But then say one of the dragons.

(33:32):
No.
Yeah.
I was like, oh,it's probably spam.
I get so many spam calls orpeople like, it's hard to hang
up and say no to people becausethey're like trying to sell you
things all the time.
So when I googled the number,it said Dragon's Den producer,
and I was like, oh.
And then I called back.
I was like, oh, sorry.
I made up some excuse.
And she's like, do youhave a couple minutes to talk?
And I was like, like,I can't say no.

(33:53):
Yeah.
So then we had aten minute call.
She asked me a couple questionsand she's like, okay, do you
want to come in next week?
Oh God.
It's super.
Fun.
And I was like, what do youmean like to the producers,
right?
She's like, no to the dragons.
And I was like, but like, no,I'm supposed to go to the
producers first andshe's like, no, you're ready,
let's go.
And I was like.
Cast it on the spot.
Yeah.
Wow.
And then I couldn't say no.

(34:14):
But I remember being like,I don't want to say no, but why
five days?
Like, can I not have more time?
She's like, he's theonly time that will work.
So just had five days notice.
I didn't really have time tobe stressed, even though I was.
I just had to like, prepare.
Yeah, I didn't.
Even have my full script readyof what to say.
I needed to memorize all thesenumbers to be prepared because

(34:37):
I'm like, putting my wholebusiness and reputation.
Was that your first.
Time pitching to someone?
Oh, yeah.
First time ever.
Yeah.
And it's to the Dragonsof all people for a first.
You know, that's quite adaunting for sure.
I remember seeing your clip andI felt so proud of you,
even though I didn'tknow you personally.
I'm like, oh, yeah,you did amazing.
Yeah.
Thank you.
So I mean, people forthe audience, is there any can

(34:59):
you spill any t of somebackstage things or anything or
anything you learnedfrom being on TV?
Yeah, I definitely learned thatif you try and you're like,
life is on the line.
If that's how I thoughtabout it, I was like,
I'm gonna die.
If I don't do good.
Like it could be over.
It was like,do or die mentality.
And I just keptpracticing and practicing.

(35:19):
And then luckily I was the lastone to go that day.
So I had all dayto practice and then watch.
The other people pitch or justwaiting that I could.
I had my own little booth, so Iremember like facing the wall
so I wouldn't see people walkby behind the curtain and just
staying focused because Iwas like, make use of my time.
Like, this is my one shot.
So I was a little nervous,but I was so glad I could go

(35:41):
last it, really prepare.
And then it wasactually quite calm back there.
And then before we wenton stage, this girl walked me
to like the loading zone,I guess before you go up.
And I was like,are you leaving ?
And she's like, no,I don't have to.
I was like, okay,can you stay with me?
And I was like.
My boyfriend told me todo this, like breathe in one

(36:01):
nostril and then breatheout the other.
And she was doing itwith me and she's like, okay,
try this one.
So we were doing like, thesebreathing exercises together.
Yeah, it actually because myheart was going like crazy.
And then I was doing that andthen it went all went away.
Very cool.
That's a good tip for sure.
Yeah.
So for anyone goingon TV, just breathe.
Yeah.
Just breathe.

(36:22):
And it was.
Actually like.
Quite quiet on set becausethe show, it's like all this
music and like these zooms andall like this, but it
was like, quiet and chilland yeah, it was watching it.
Back.
You presenting it in real lifeversus the edit like what was
the difference or likewhen you, um.
I was in there for like40 minutes, but the edit on TV

(36:42):
I think was seven.
Oh wow.
That is a lotof time to edit out.
Yeah.
And then there was one pointwhere I wanted to make a call,
and then they just told me toturn around, and I was waiting
for them to tell me togo into the booth, but then
they're like, okay,turn back around.
And then the dragonswere like, okay, what's your
decision?
And I was like,don't I get my call?
What do you mean?
I get my call?

(37:02):
Like, they told me,I got my call.
And she's like, aren'tyou the full owner?
Why do you need a call?
And I was like, my cousin'slike the finance guy.
Like, I want to talk to them.
Yeah.
And then they're like, okay,you can make your call.
And I was like, oh my God.
And I had his number in both ofmy pockets written down.
Scared I would lose one.
I was so nervous I was like,I need like I can't leave to go
get his number.

(37:23):
And I remember taking a photoof his number and being like,
this is it, right?
Just to make sure.
So I called him.
And then I also remember theproducer saying I was allowed
to be repeated back the offers.
Okay.
Because I did get likeI think it was three offers.
And I remember I was memorizingthem as they were saying them,
but just in case, I just wantedthem to recall it back to me.

(37:45):
Just like there's a lot.
To soak in when you're on.
Yeah, just one last thing toknow and it's a.
Big decision to makeon the spot.
Yeah.
I remember the ladybeing like, no, we have to
memorize them yourself.
And I was like, but someonealso said, like, like they said
I could get this call.
And they they saidthat you would rephrase them.
So then I was like, whatever.
I kind of memorize them.
So I just said it anyways.

(38:06):
So those were like little blipsthat were like caught
me off guard.
Do you think your decisionwould have changed if you
didn't make that call?
Um.
I don't know, actually,because I remember wanting to,
like, come back and be like,oh, I'll ask for like 5% more.
But then my cousin being like,in the grand scheme of
things like, that's nota big deal.

(38:26):
And then it kind of putsyou like, I just wanted to
accept the already good offer.
Yeah.
So I think I would havedefinitely gone for the
same person, but I don't know.
I don't know if I would havejust accepted or like it almost
seems like they're you'reencouraged to like go back just
for like drama.
Yeah.
Right.
So even the episodes,maybe they always go back.

(38:47):
They don't just accept.
Yeah.
Felt pressured in my mind likesocially to do that.
You really have to have like astrong sense of self or like
confidence to like, yeah.
Or like sway to the directionthat they want you to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So how much of a role did theinvestor play in your business
afterwards?
So we just went back and forth.
I sent like my financials.
And then I think it was likesix months later that she got

(39:11):
back to me and said we weren'tgoing to move forward, but she
was going to offer mentorshipbecause she didn't see us as
a good fit.
And she was like, I thinkyou'll do great on your own.
And then in my mind,I was like, okay,
because secretly I didn't knowwhat it would really mean to
have an investor right?
Then I would need tomake a board of directors.
I would need to draw up morelegal contracts, and then I

(39:32):
would lose a lot of freedom.
Yeah.
It's like another thing youhave to figure out.
Yeah, yeah.
Someone breathingdown your neck.
Yeah, but I did want to see itthrough to see what it would be
like to see, like, if it wouldget to that, I would want to
weigh out pros and cons.
Mhm.
So you just celebrated fiveyears in business.
Congrats.
And oh you actually werein the shirt.

(39:53):
Oh nice.
Okay.
Yeah I saw your storywhere you made that shirt.
Yeah.
No edition t shirt right.
Yeah.
And you said like each flowerrepresents a year in business.
This is super cool.
And then I think it says XXL isfive at the end of that leaf.
Very cool.
Very cool for youto design that t shirt.
Um, not that long.
Like maybe I had theidea one day.
And then I think amonth later, I drew it out in

(40:14):
like a day.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yeah.
So when you reflect back onyour five years, what were some
of the biggestlessons that you've learned?
Oh, I was like, there'sso many I think for sure.
Like being a boss over a friendis a huge thing when you're
hiring people and just postingthings authentic to you and not

(40:36):
trying to be likesomebody else, but then like,
make the most use of your timeand don't be afraid to talk
to the camera.
Just kind of just do your tasksand try not to get because
I would get.
So whenever I stress now andbefore I would be over thinking
of all the things I have to dobecause I'm already like, oh,
I haven't ordered Valentinesfor next year, what am I going

(40:58):
to do?
Oh, I think you're waytoo far into the future.
Yeah.
But even though.
You do have to think that wayto make it in time and stuff
like that, but I try not tostress over things too much
because it'll work out.
And just like, keep up withyour task now instead of losing
that time stressing, it's hard.
So what about,like, the future ?
Where do you wheredo you see your company?

(41:19):
Kind of in five years from now?
Um, I hope that wegrow our products even more.
And then I'm kind of scalingback to doing our limited drops
because I was trying.
This is this is alsoa huge lesson.
You don't need to likeOverstock and you don't need to
like it's okay if you sell out.
Because back when I lived withmy parents and we were selling

(41:41):
out of all those fabrics whereI would just buy at the
fabric store, I was like, oh,I wish I could buy unlimited,
but I actually bought so muchof our swim fabric, and we're
sitting with so much of itbecause I didn't realize, like,
it's okay if it sells out,like you're just building the
hype for the next.
Yeah.
But I would wish to have morejust to have more sales,

(42:02):
but it's okay if it sells out.
So I wish I told myself thatlike two years ago when I
ordered all this excess fabric.
Mhm.
Is there any advice that you'dgive to your younger self?
Um, just to keepfollowing your passion.
And if you don't like somethinglike I went to school for
psychology for so long,I didn't hate it, but it

(42:23):
wasn't my interest.
Your calling?
Yeah, and I did that forfive years, so I feel like life
would have been so different ifI just went straight into art.
Do you feel like.
Psychology helped play a rolein your business?
Like understanding?
Yeah.
Customer.
Maybe.
Good.
That's a.
Great question.
Yeah.
Yeah, it definitely did.
It definitely makes me morelike empathetic to
other people, even just myrelationships in the real world.

(42:45):
I feel like I can understandsomeone else's side a bit more
when they're feeling sad orupset or like, really happy.
I feel like that's given methat skill, which is really
useful because our customerservice is mostly me and people
always are like, your customerservice is great, and I think
it's because I reallyunderstand and like feel for
the other people if theyhave an issue.
Um.

(43:06):
That's awesome.
That's huge.
So we're going to endoff the episode.
We're going to talk aboutsomething that's very,
very topical right now.
And of course, um, it's goingto be the US tariffs.
So obviously we know that theTrump administration has
announced this 25% tariffacross the board for all goods
coming from Canada.
So and Mexico obviously as well.
So did you want to kind of walkus through kind of what your

(43:27):
you know, how how you reactedwhen you heard that news.
Um, you know, how you think itmight impact your business.
So whenever I see these thingscome up, I just kind of ignore
them until it becomes like, oh,I have to do something about it.
Because people kept,like chiming in and asking.
And I was like, I don't knowwhat I'm going to do.
Like, what am Isupposed to really do?
And then I looked into it,and then I looked at

(43:47):
our customer base.
And 47% of orders in the lastyear was directly to the US.
Wow.
Capital business.
Yeah.
And then Iwas like, panicking again.
Overthinking.
Like, what am I going to like,what would I do without half
those sales?
Like, I wouldn't have been ableto keep like the team and to
grow like half salesbeing just gone like that.
Scary.

(44:08):
And plus, like, happier.
Yeah.
Team, like you said, is likeyour family too, right?
Yeah.
Stress.
So it was a lot tothink about losing all of that.
But then I realized, like I payduties on some things that
I ordered to.
So I realized like it wouldn'tjust all go away just like that.
Mhm.
How do you think you'llapproach the shift.
Well I think I heard do youguys hear on the news that

(44:29):
it's not happening.
Well I mean I know it'spostponed um for 30 days.
I haven't heardanything since then.
I think someone sent me anarticle and I think it said
it's only for likealuminum right now.
So that's actuallyan additional, uh, tariff.
So he's introduced aluminumand steel tariff.
That is actually goingto be why he's very

(44:51):
confusing person.
Yeah.
And what was really bad aboutthat one too is um, that's going
to be compounded.
Right.
So the other ones25% across everything.
And he introduced a separateone for steel and aluminum.
That's actually going to becompounded on top of that.
So steel and aluminumeffectively is going to be
tariffs at a 50% rate,which is, you know,
pretty crazy.
And of course he's talkingabout putting 100% tariffs on

(45:12):
cars coming out of Canada.
100% tariffs as well.
Yeah.
So he's getting pretty wildwith the with the
tariffs right now.
So I mean time will tell ifthis does sort itself out.
But you know we really uh Ithink as Canadians it's really
made us realize how wedo need to diversify who we
do business with.
You know, um, can't reallydepend on anyone,
it seems like, these days.

(45:33):
So it's it's goodto diversify, for sure.
But I didsee, like, small businesses.
I saw a bunch of posts.
So like, we want to supportCanadian made and other small
businesses in Canada.
But like if they're supportingone small business, some of
them do get productsfrom the US.
Yeah.
Like they can't make theirproducts from scratch.

(45:54):
So they source as well fromlike maybe China and US,
but then that other smallbusiness that wants to support
them suddenly can't becausethen their prices are going up.
Yeah.
So it's like this hugeripple effect, even if you're
still trying to support.
If it was to happen, like,would you raise your prices?
I don't know.
I feel like, I don't know,I saw someone suggest that I

(46:14):
should do discounts to the USbecause then it like offsets.
I would rather do that thanraise because then we would
lose maybe more customersbecause it's a.
Very effective pricingstrategy as well.
Right?
So I mean.
Because then like our communitywould still be struggling with
all the priceincreases everywhere else.
I wouldn't want to likeadd to that.

(46:35):
Mhm mhm.
Well hopefully it all works outin the end I know.
Yeah.
It's just like a huge risk.
Like you really never know.
Being a small businessowner I think.
Most people small businessesand large businesses alike are
very much againstthe the tariffs.
They hurt both sides of theaisle like we mentioned raising
prices and everybody.
Yeah their benefits.
Yeah.
There's no onethat really benefits.

(46:55):
It doesn't seem like I if thereis someone I haven't heard
about it yet tobe perfectly honest.
And I think historicallytariffs haven't worked
in the past.
Right.
So I'm not really sure what to.
What the the angleis here, but hopefully it
works itself out.
Hopefully it isjust a negotiating tactic
because yeah, the the hurt isgoing to be felt in the US as
well as here is, you know,like people are going to end up

(47:15):
like you potentially would havebeen forced to to
raise your prices.
Other people are going to behaving to force to do
that as well.
So realistically these tariffsare just going to be taxed
on the consumer.
Right.
It's just aconsumer tax essentially an
extra consumer tax.
And I don't think anyonereally wants that.
You know.
Um.
I did receive some messages andorders coming in after I made a
post about likenot complaining, but just like

(47:38):
acknowledgingthe tariff situation.
And I got some orders and thenote said, like, hey, I placed
an order because I wantto support you.
Um, I'm living in the UKright now, but I'm from the US.
I'm sorry to hear like, wow.
So people were alreadysupporting because of that.
So that kind of made me see,like, oh, we might survive it.
Yeah.
I mean,your community pulls through.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's all aboutsupporting the community.

(47:59):
And hopefully, you know,our government will support
businesses like yours whopotentially could be impacted
by this?
I think most Canadians woulddefinitely support
something like that.
Mhm.
So that's it for the show.
Tina, thank you so much forjoining us today and sitting
down and chatting with us.
It was really great to,you know, get an inside look at
your business and how you'vebeen managing and your
journey and everything.

(48:19):
And for listeners who want tolearn more about you, where can
they go to find you?
They can find us onalmost every channel.
So our YouTubes XXL scrunchie,our Instagrams XXL
Dot scrunchie, and our TikTokand our Facebook page and
our Pinterest page.
Awesome.
We'll have all the links toTina's channels in the
description box below, so makesure to go follow and support.

(48:40):
And uh, please, if you likethis episode, give us a like
subscribe all the things sharewith your friends, co-workers,
or whoever.
Thanks so much everybody.
We'll see you inthe next episode.
Okay?
Bye, everybody.

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