June 3, 2024 • 40 mins
Let's address the elephant in the room! Business is tough right now and knowing the next right step can be difficult.
So, this week on the show, Justine has called on marketing expert and digital entrepreneur Emily Osmond to help share the best way to run and market your business when the market is tight.
From strategic pricing and product offerings, Emily and Justine discuss the importance of tuning into your audience's needs while also providing them with those things they don't yet know they need. We chat about email list, crafting lead magnets that genuinely captivate, and creating value across a spectrum of price points.
Emily also shares how to diversify your business with online courses and digital offers, something you can start today. Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur or just starting out, this episode is packed with insights to guide you towards a business that not only thrives but aligns seamlessly with your personal vision of success.
This episode is brought to you by Become A Business Money Magnet - Simple habits to manage your money and supercharge your profits!
Want 30 Ways to Save Money in your Business? Download the guide here.
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Host: Justine McLean – Flossi Creative
Producer: Leah Stanistreet – Snappystre...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
you're listening to the secrets of successful
business podcast, your go-tosource for business tips, tricks
and proven strategies that willhelp you create a streamlined
and profitable business.
We chat to the best minds inbusiness about their journey.
It's my business and I'll do itmy way, how they started,
rather than going harder to getmore focus on growing more with
(00:25):
what you have, what they learnedalong the way.
How long are you going to givethis what?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
compromises are you going to make?
Just because you can do itdoesn't mean that you should do
it.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's really important to remember that it's a long
game and, of course, we'll askthem for their secret sauce for
creating a successful business.
If you're not failing, you'renot doing it right.
You should be struggling attimes.
That is part of the journey.
Join us as we take a sneak peekbehind the curtain, talk
solutions for those businesspain points working smarter, not
harder, mindset and thechallenges of fitting it all in
(00:57):
with the demands of today's busylifestyle.
If you're a business owner,side hustler or just starting
your business journey, thispodcast is for you.
Now here's your host, businesscoach and content creator,
justine McLean from FlossieCreative.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hello and thanks for joining me on the podcast today.
In case we haven't met, I'mJustine, a small business owner
on a mission to uncover andshare the secrets of creating
and running a profitable,sustainable and successful
business.
I've been in business for over20 years now and I get to use
all that I've learned along theway to help other women in
business reduce the overwhelm,gain visibility around their
(01:37):
numbers, charge what they'reworth and make more money.
It's about designing a life youlove that fits into your
definition of success.
So if I can help you create theprofitable business you deserve
, please reach out Now withoutfurther ado, let's dive into
today's episode.
Emily Osman quit her job tostart a business when she was 26
(02:00):
.
She had no plan, but with amortgage to service her business
idea had to work.
But, as Emily says, after awild ride on the entrepreneurial
rollercoaster, she now boasts aglobal business that delivers a
suite of online programs, andshe's also the host of the Emily
Osman Show, a podcast with overhalf a million downloads and
(02:24):
that's listened to in over ahundred countries.
Emily knows firsthand thatbusiness success is about
believing that you can create abusiness on your terms that
provides the income, lifestyleand freedom you desire.
It's about connection overperfection and being brave
enough to suck at something newover perfection and being brave
(02:48):
enough to suck at something new.
Emily's words and on the show.
Today.
We're chatting about running abusiness in today's economy and
why adding an online businessmight just be the way to move
your business forward.
Hi, emily, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Thank you, Justine.
I'm really delighted andhonored to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
It's like I'm thrilled to talk to you because
I feel like we've been orbitingaround one another for a while
now talking online, but it's solovely to connect in person.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
You know it really is .
We've already had a greatdiscussion.
I could chat with you all day.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
We should have hit record ages ago, right?
Oh dear, Now look, before wekick off, I'd love if you could
share a little bit aboutyourself and your business with
the audience, just so they canget to know a little bit more
about you.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, no worries.
So I'm in the marketing spaceonline marketing and I'm really
passionate about helping smallbusiness owners to improve their
marketing and learn how to doit themselves.
I have a master ofcommunications degree.
I wrote my thesis on socialmedia and I had a very short
stint of working for someoneelse and I guess I've always
(03:51):
kind of had that desire to be myown boss and run my own
business in a way, started as afreelancer and worked in tourism
for that stint full-time, whichwas the best job ever really
doing digital marketing for aregional tourism body.
But really ultimately I justwanted to give it a go, going
(04:12):
out on my own, picked up somedifferent clients, got a lot of
experience working acrossdifferent assets of marketing,
and I got to a point a few yearsinto my business where I found
I was repeating myself in thestrategies I was sharing with my
clients and I realized that thepart that I loved most about
what I was doing was reallyteaching them how they could
(04:32):
manage their own marketing andlearn how to do it themselves,
versus me delivering them astrategy.
And this was about six years agoand I'd heard the idea of this
online course thing, but up tillthat point I had kind of
dismissed it as something thatcould work for me.
I thought I'm only seeing theseAmerican, big American
(04:52):
personalities doing this.
I'm introverted.
I just, for many reasons,thought this isn't something I
can do.
But I was listening to apodcast which is the power of
podcasting, I think and I heardthis other lady saying she was
an introvert and she hadlaunched this membership
teaching people social media andI thought, well, okay, maybe
this is something I can give ago, and so I created my online
(05:14):
membership and that was, like Isaid, about five, six years ago
and that's been a whole newjourney and loads of learnings
from there.
And today I continue to runthat and help really
predominantly now it's onlinebusiness owners.
So service providers, experts,consultants, help them to market
themselves online, and I alsohelp people as well that want to
(05:35):
turn their knowledge andexpertise into a leveraged offer
with an online course.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So that's what I do.
Yeah, that's amazing because Imean, I guess you could say
you're a bit of a veteran, then,of the online space, because if
you started this, you know,five, six years ago, like you
said, people weren't doing itback then.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I feel as though I'm not a veteran because there were
those early adopters out there,but I guess I was in that
middle wave, I see, and it was alovely place to be actually
that middle wave, because it waslike road, the wave of COVID,
which was a horrible time but apretty good time, I would say,
(06:12):
for the online course industry,with lots of people, I guess,
locked down at home and lookingto learn new skills, and so that
was quite a nice time for a lotof business and now it's a
whole different time and it's awhole different set of learnings
, and what used to work doesn't,which is, I think, keeping me
humble and probably a lot ofother people and you're right.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I mean, and really that's the elephant in the room
right now.
It's the economy right, becausethere are so many you know
people out there right now.
So many of my clients and I'vegot clients in the small, medium
business kind of space, who arestill doing the same things,
not getting the same results.
They're struggling with leadsand they're just not getting any
(06:55):
new clients because, eventhough we keep being told,
people are still spending.
I think a lot of people arespending on things that make
them happy yeah, yeah, going outto dinner or doing something
with their family and they'reprobably taking a bit of a
backward step when it comes tomarketing their business or
spending money on their business.
(07:16):
So what have you sort oflearned or what advice would you
give to people listening now,who are in that space whether
it's online or providingservices to clients and they're
struggling with their marketingand they're finding it tough to
get new leads?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, first of all, it's not easy.
The key thing is to know thatperhaps what used to work
doesn't work, at least at thispoint in time, and I I myself
have spent far too long beinglike, well, this used to work,
so how can't, how can I justmake it work again?
But when I realized, right,it's time to try some new things
(07:54):
, I think for us we have to, ina way, just check our ego,
because once we have been inbusiness a little while, I guess
we can become a little bitaccustomed to a certain way of
our business working and acertain just.
It kind of gets on a bit of aroll.
And I think when times likethis come about, it's about
trying new things, and when wedo that, there's many chances
(08:17):
that they're not going to work.
And I think that when we're newin business, we just I think
we're more open to that.
In a way, we're like I'm anewbie here, I'm just going to
try these things out.
I don't have huge expectationsperhaps, but when we're more
we've been in business a littlebit longer, it can feel almost
more scary or more intimidating,or more we've got more ego
about it in terms of what we'retrying out that there's that
(08:38):
pressure that it should work now.
So I think just letting go ofwhat used to work, being open to
trying new things and then, ifwe get a bit more specific and
practical there cause I'm I liketo get quite practical is also
not being too attached to ouroffers.
So I've had some students thatwhat used to sell quite well
(08:59):
doesn't so much now, and itsounds like the same with your
community too.
And so looking at, okay, isthere a way that I can serve
people in my audience in a waythat's going to meet them where
they're at now?
How can I adjust my offeringshere and for me myself and my
own business, I'm doing this too, and I'm looking at what would
be an absolute no-brainer, whatis something that is just an
(09:19):
easy yes for people?
What is the thing that theyreally really want Because that
can change too during thesetimes the things that people are
prioritizing, what they want,and the best way to find that
out is to speak to your audience.
You can do this in manydifferent ways surveys, polls,
get on the phone with them, putup a course or something, see if
it sells and then actually goabout and create it.
(09:40):
But I think just being open totrying new offers, really trying
to find out from your audiencewhat is it that they want, and
having that beginner's mindsetagain almost in just that
testing.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
It's such a good way of looking at it.
I mean, I spoke to my groupthis morning and I said
something very similar that it's.
It's sort of now the time toreally get scrappy and think
okay, what what did I do when Ifirst started and, as you say,
what can I really lean into?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And I think for me.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
The last time we were going through this crisis and
I've been around in business fora long time I thought, right,
I'm just going to diversify intoa couple of different areas and
I'm going to see what sticks.
It was almost like a bit of anexperiment and while I wouldn't
go as far as saying it was likethrowing spaghetti at a wall, it
was definitely an experiment.
(10:32):
And the thing that stuck and atthe time I was devastated by it
and this is sort of nearlyseven years ago was that whole
compliance side of the business,you know, just doing that
day-to-day bookkeeping andsubmitting BAS returns for
clients and that sort of stuffwhich I absolutely loathed doing
(10:53):
, but it sort of introduced meto a whole world of fabulous
business owners.
That's not what I was expecting.
I got to do a whole lot ofone-to-one work with those
people and really becomeinvested in their business, and
then that unexpected kind ofroad was a business that I sold
(11:13):
just over 12 months ago.
So you kind of you never knowwhere something new will lead
you.
Exactly yeah, I think that'sreally important now.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah, for sure, and that getting scrappy thing and
exactly like you said it's.
I think it's hard sometimes forourselves, being so close to
our own business, to to see kindof gaps and opportunities,
which I think it is just makesit even more important to to try
and listen to the market, tryand really dig into what are
people asking for, what arepeople just wanting, and give
(11:45):
them what they want.
That's what I say to mystudents.
I'm like what do your audiencewant?
Give that to them, andsometimes there's so much more
that we want to offer them.
Like it sounds like that wasthe same as you.
You're like right, this is whatpeople want, but perhaps once
they sign on with me, I can alsogive them what I know that they
need too which is the thingthat makes us more excited.
So I think that's a good way toapproach it as well.
(12:05):
What are people asking for,what do they want?
And then you can kind ofsecretly also give them what you
know they should have.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And now someone said this to me this morning.
I'd be interested to get yourthoughts on it.
So one of the things that Ireally kind of advocate is to
build an email list, because Ifeel like you know it's easy to
concentrate on socials, butyou're essentially we've heard
it before you're building yourbusiness on a bit of a rented
space.
So collect those emailaddresses and speak to the
(12:35):
people who are already very warmand in your ecosystem because
primarily we hope they're thepeople that are going to sign on
.
But one of my students thismorning said but nobody's
signing up anymore.
People are so much more savvynow.
They're not trading, they'renot prepared to give their email
.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Oh gosh this makes me excited this question.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
For just you know, some sort of lead magnet.
And I thought yeah, okay, I cansee that because I'm a little
bit reluctant now.
I mean, we're in situationoverload no matter where we look
.
So what's your advice?
Speaker 3 (13:10):
for that question, oh my gosh.
Okay, great question and greatinsight from your student there.
So I would say you just got tomake your lead magnet better,
you've got to give more, you'vegot to make it more valuable,
and this is actually really theway I see as the solution to
everything we're doing.
In a way, we just have to bebetter.
It's like the social mediawhat's going to work?
(13:31):
We've got to be more strategic.
Think more about what we'resharing than before, when
previously just a pretty graphicwould get some engagement.
Now no one cares about thatpretty graphic.
So when it comes to your leadmagnet again, it's like what
used to work doesn't really workas well anymore.
Having basically anything as alead magnet used to basically
work Nowadays.
So I can give you an example of.
(13:52):
One of mine is I've thought whatwould over deliver, what would
like, something that couldalmost be should be bought, but
I'm giving it for free.
So instead of giving a downloadand as well, I'm thinking about
consumer behavior.
So I know when I get a downloadI might have a quick look and
then forget about it and I havewhat do they call that?
The graveyard of downloads I'venever actually gone back to,
(14:15):
and I am right in your campthere.
So what I did is I still havethe PDF download that I sent,
but I basically give peopleaccess to a free five-day email
series.
So then every day I'm teachingthem one thing, yes, and the
open rates are fantastic.
I had someone the other dayemail me and say just like,
(14:37):
thank you so much.
This is really helpful andvaluable, and so I think it's
just thinking what would kind ofover-deliver, what is something
a bit different?
If it is just a PDF you'reoffering, I would agree it's.
You're probably not going toget people signing up.
So maybe it's a little videoseries, maybe it's just
something that is a littledifferent and more valuable than
(14:57):
in the past as well, becausepeople are still signing up, but
it's got to be compellingenough for them to want to do so
, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I couldn't agree with you more.
And that's such a good hackright there to just follow up
that PDF download with a reallytailored email that's going to
almost walk people through whatit is you want them to learn or
to get out of that.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
you know the download that you offered, yeah, and
each of those days.
So I break each day if we wantto get even more like specific
here.
So it's like five, five thingsI teach in the PDF.
So each day I then break outone of those things and I give
people an action task.
So I'm like right, this is whatwe've covered.
Here's the thing to go away anddo Just again to make it as
helpful and practical and aseasy to implement as possible so
(15:47):
that hopefully, all of thoseyou're not going to get everyone
that reads the emails, but ofthe people that read the emails,
they're thinking good of me,they're thinking, yep, this, you
know, emily's actually given mesomething valuable here and
then a percentage of them thatare the right fit and ready and
want more help.
And then I talk about hey,here's how you can buy from me.
This is the like, a really goodnext step if you want more help
(16:09):
with this topic.
So then through there, I thenoffer one of my paid offers.
So that's working quite well.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And I heard you say the other day you know that now
is also a good time to sort oflook at the offers that you have
on the table that.
I suppose that ascension model,the value ladder that you're
offering where people can workat you and all those different
levels, and I think it'simportant to do that now too,
(16:34):
and to just pick a price pointor an area where you can really
deliver something of value topeople at a low cost.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, that's right, justine, and I was thinking
about it and it kind of changedthe way that I approach this
myself, because in the past Iwould perhaps create something
and then try and figure out howto price it, and now what I do
is, I think where's the gap inmy business?
That I'm not meeting people atthat, I'm that I could have
(17:03):
something to sell at that wouldhelp people.
Okay, let's choose that pricepoint or that price bracket and
create a really amazing offerthat I, that fits into that
price bracket and and put thatone out there.
So I kind of talk about itbeing the revive.
The reverse pricing strategy is, and I think it just helps
business owners so much.
You might've heard it with yourstudents, perhaps, but it's just
(17:25):
got.
Can anyone tell me what Ishould price this out?
I don't know how much it'sworth.
It's like, okay, well, ifyou've got maybe an offer that's
$5,000 in your business andthat's the lowest price point,
someone can work with you.
Maybe it'd be wise to pop onein there that's at a lower price
point.
Create something to that valuelet's say it's $500.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
That's a win-win for both of you and put that one out
there.
Yeah, totally, and I thinkthat's the key in there.
It has to be a win-win for bothof you yes, because I get
obviously asked that questionall the time and I and you know
I often say somebody said to meonce oh, what's your superpower?
and I said no, pricing is mysuperpower, love that and I
think it's just because I do itin a bit of a different way.
I always make sure that,whatever that price, you know it
(18:07):
is that you're offeringsomething at that.
You covered, you know, the costof doing business your wages,
your super, your tax, yoursavings and you added a profit
to that, and so I think that's akey thing.
It has to be the win-win forboth parties for you as the
business owner and for theperson you're serving, because
so many people now are justtempted to discount and still be
(18:32):
, you know, giving up their timefor much less money, and then
they're wondering why they'renot able to pay themselves a
wage.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yes, yes.
I think that distinction isreally important too, for sure,
for sure and understanding thebasic, like almost the strategic
place that that or strategicrole that that offer plays in
your business too.
Yeah, totally so I see, you'vekind of got those offers that
are the taster of working withyou or learning from you.
And then you go to maybe yourkey and your core offers that
(19:00):
are really like amazing waysthat you can help people a
little bit more in depth or witha little bit more of your time.
And then you're always going tohave those people in your
audience or your customer basethat just want more access to
you or they want it faster, orthey want it in a more luxurious
experience.
So then I say you know, that'skind of your VIP or your luxury
offer, and just looking at, okay, maybe you're missing one in
(19:22):
your business.
Put it out there and see whatthe response is.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I think it's so important because, even if it's
not going to resonate now, it'ssomething that, because business
will change, I mean we'll be inan upswing before we know it,
and I think if you can have allthose bits and pieces in place
before, then it gives you areally good you know framework
to go forward and to make goodmoney in your business.
(19:45):
Yes, yes, one of the thingsthat you are really an expert in
is online business, andobviously I called you a bit of
a veteran and you know, beingaround for six years, I mean, I
think, certainly in Australia, Ithink that is, you know, that's
some pretty good runs on theboard when it comes to online
business, and one of the thingsthat I hear often is oh, maybe
(20:08):
it's too late, or everybody'sdoing it.
So what I mean?
Is it too late to start anonline business and what are
some of the benefits of startingan online business, either as
our sole business or to add intothe business that we've already
got happening?
Brilliant questions.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Justine, you're so good at this.
Maybe we'll do a quick overviewof the benefits and then we can
go to the question is it toolate?
So, benefits online businessand why it was really appealing
to me is just that flexibilitybeing able to work at your own
pace as well, which isespecially something now.
As we were saying, I've got alittle toddler, 21-year-old, and
(20:46):
I'm about to have another baby,so it's pretty critical for me
to be able to if I want tocontinue working, which I do to
be able to have a lot offlexibility there and to drive
my business at a set pace thatcan go up and down around kids
in my life.
Being able to work fromanywhere as well is awesome.
If that's something that appealsto you, and I think as well
(21:06):
with the online business side ofthings, if you are passionate
about teaching and sharing yourknowledge and all of that, that
I think it could be a reallygood fit.
That was certainly what I found.
I just adored seeing thosebusiness owners get the wins and
get the learnings and thenimplement themselves and I know
that that's people that havekind of followed me and done
learned how to create their owncourses tend to say like they
just love, love seeing theirstudents learn and all that type
(21:29):
of thing, and also, as well,the online business.
It can be a pretty low cost wayto get started, versus a
product-based business or justdifferent, different things that
you need a lot more upfrontinvestment and it's very agile
too, so if something's notselling, you can try something
else.
So I love it for that.
It's pretty quick to testthings out and see what the
(21:51):
response is.
So I'd say there are a few ofthe benefits of it In terms of
if it's too late, and thisactually swings around to the
discussion we've been havingaround a lot of things at the
moment in terms of are theystill working?
Is it still worth building youremail list?
I think we've just got to bebetter at delivering our courses
, and when I say better, I meanI think in the past having
(22:13):
something like a $2,000 coursethat was relatively broad.
They tended to still sell.
I think today it's.
I would just encourage peopleto get more specific around
their target student and theoutcome.
They're really that key thingthat they're teaching them.
And then I would also look atthe price points too.
(22:33):
And there was actually a Kajabiwhich is do you use Kajabi?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I use Kajabi yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
So they I mean you might've seen it actually they
sent out an email with just someinsights into their users and
they said that they surveyedpeople that purchased products
from Kajabi and basically it wassaying the price point up to
about $200.
People are kind of happy to buywithout thinking too much Over
$200, they're going to have tothink about it or use a payment
(22:59):
plan.
So just looking at theseinsights can really help inform.
Okay, well, what's just ano-brainer offer you can put out
there when it comes to yourcourse, maybe you're starting
with the smaller type of course.
It's very specific.
You're building people's trustwith you and then from there
you've got this whole group ofcustomers now that have actually
purchased from you A lot ofthem are going to want to keep
(23:19):
working with you and that's whenperhaps you've got your more
higher priced offerings oryou've got your consulting or
you've got your services.
But I just see courses as awonderful way to share that
knowledge.
Do it in a way that doesn'treally require a whole lot of
your time.
Once the course is createdalthough it does require time to
market and sell it, it's notpassive and to build that other
(23:41):
arm into the business, thatdiversification that we were you
touched on as well.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
it is such a great way to get started, um, if,
particularly if, you're leaningtowards going down that road, or
having that road as just partof your business as well,
because, as you say, I mean,it's just such a flexible way to
run a business and that'sreally all I do in my business
now and I absolutely love it.
You know the fact that I've gotthat.
(24:05):
Sure, I'll still workone-on-one with people, but I
can choose when I do that.
So for people who you know wepique their interest, they're
going to create something that'sless than $200.
So they get people buying inwithout thinking about it.
What's some advice you can givefor really, you know, for
getting started now?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Yeah, and when I say under $200, you know, give or
take, you know you can.
I always encourage people tochoose the price points that
make sense for your business.
Don't have to be that, but Ilook at my own behavior and the
courses that I've purchased overthe past six, six months or so,
and they tend to be around thatprice point.
I'm looking for very specificsolutions to very specific
problems, so I like to follow myown behavior too and put offers
(24:45):
out there that suit.
So, when it comes to gettingstarted, this is actually a bit
of a process that I teach and Ithink so many people tend to
spend months and months in thecourse creation process and
they're like Emily, I'm creatinga course, or maybe it's this
time next year, and they're like, oh, I just I still haven't
quite got around to that.
So I encourage people toactually you need to just start
(25:07):
selling it to see if people wantit.
So I would put out similar towhat I do in my business is put
out a bit of a free training orsome freebie that is very
related to your course topic, tosee if there's update, see if
it resonates with people.
From there I would invitepeople to a waitlist.
So you know that.
Okay, yeah, people are showinginterest.
You've said I've got thiscourse coming.
(25:27):
If you've got the price point,I would encourage you to put
that on the waitlist page sothat there's a clear expectation
and understanding of what theprice of your course is going to
be.
So, hey, it's this price point,it's coming in next month or in
a few weeks or whenever itmight be.
And survey the people that jointhe waitlist.
Hey, what's the what could be?
What would make this courseinvaluable to you?
What can I include in it thatwould really help solve this
(25:50):
problem for you?
And this is what we spoke about, I think, right at the start in
terms of finding out what youraudience want and then giving
them what they want and not likeletting ourselves stand in the
way.
And then from there, I wouldoutline what's going to be in
the course, get your sales pageup.
You can create as much of thecourse upfront, as you want, but
I would just encourage you asquick as you can, to put it out
there and offer it for sale andthen from there you can start
(26:15):
building out the content as wellwith your first cohort of
students and using theirfeedback.
Hey, does this make sense?
Is there anything that would bebetter here?
If I missed anything?
And again, you're not going toknow what to completely include
in your course until you havepeople going through it and
asking you the questions andyou're realizing gosh, okay, I
pitched this at a bit more, orthe content in here is a little
bit advanced.
I think I need a bit morebeginner content to help people
at the earlier stages, or I'vemissed this whole thing that
(26:35):
people need, or whatever thatlooks like.
So it's a very iterative processand that's the way that I think
it should be in terms of ourmarketing and our products and
everything really is to do it intandem with our audience and
always seek to look at how wecan better serve them, better
answer their questions.
Yeah, evolve and adapt.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Because that's it, you know.
I mean, you might think you'vegot your nation, you might think
that you know the problem thatyou're solving, but, as you said
and I mentioned this to youbefore we hit record sometimes
you don't know what the biggestproblem is.
So obviously I'm talking aboutbusiness finance, and when I
created my course and I wrote mybook, I'm thinking, okay, the
biggest problem is that peopledon't have these great
(27:15):
foundations in place and thesegood money habits, and
absolutely you know they're twoareas that we can improve.
But it turned out that thebiggest concern for my potential
clients right now was aroundmindset and money and how to
kind of deal with their thoughtsand feelings about money and
then how that informed theirbusiness, and I found that
(27:36):
fascinating.
So I think your process, youknow, makes a lot of sense for
people because it's just goingto help you create a product
that people are going to want totalk about and share, and also
it just helps you create yourcourse, it just helps you get it
out there.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
So it's not a year's time, it's not a year's time,
and that's the thing it's.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I don't think your first I just take the pressure
off yourself.
Your first launch and even your10th launch isn't going to be
perfect, but once you have yourcourse created, you've got way
more.
What's the word Imperative?
Is it To go ahead and actuallymarket it and get it out there
and sell it?
So I think if you can just getit kind of first launched,
that's then going to just buildthat momentum and help snowball
(28:19):
growing it into the months andyears to come, and that's what
we spoke about.
You know the benefits of onlinebusiness.
You can do it at your own pace,but you can't sell something
that doesn't exist.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, totally, and let's just talk about that whole
launch idea for a minute and Iguess the best way to attract
that first client, becauseobviously a lot of people follow
that launch formula when itcomes to their online courses
people here in Australia, peopleinternationally as well.
I actually moved away from thatprocess last year.
(28:51):
Why?
Because I am lazy and when Isaw how much work went into a
launch I was like man.
I just don't think I can keepdoing that on repeat.
But the other thing was in myfield in particular.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I think when people need help with their money, they
need it right now and not inthree months time when the doors
open again.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So what are your thoughts on those live launches
and what's the best way toattract that first customer?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
It's great.
I think we're the same person,justine, so I'm exactly the same
, and so I don't after I've puta product out there I don't
really do launches, so I preferto then sell my products always,
always open, always available,always around the clock, because
, like you said, I think thatoften when people want something
, they've got enough reason inthemselves to go ahead and make
(29:42):
a purchase.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I'm the same myself.
If I want something, I want togo and buy it.
I'm very impatient.
So, if I see well, they're notlaunching for six months, I'll
probably just go find anothersolution.
It's not really for me, andalso I do find launches a whole
lot of time, a whole lot ofenergy.
So this is the kind of thething that I teach.
You just got to get that firstlaunch done, to force you to
(30:04):
create your program and to getthose first students in.
From there, we then, I wouldrecommend moving to more the
evergreen model, and it's justway more life-friendly in my
opinion.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, so I could not way less stressful.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I'd rather see sales coming in every month and
knowing what I can tweak versusrelying on one or two big
launches a year that I think arepretty risky if you don't hit
the goals, and then you've toldeveryone well, I'm not opening
for six months.
So that's my opinion on that Interms of getting those first
students into the course.
A similar strategy to what Ishared around putting something
(30:40):
out there that's very related toyour course topic to give
people that value upfront and toreally kind of position you as
the expert that you are and thenfrom there inviting them hey,
if you loved this, I've got thiscourse.
And then also you can justinvite your audience to say, hey
, jump on the waitlist, it'sopening on this date.
And also letting your audienceknow hey, this course is now
open and I would to encouragethose early sales offer
(31:08):
something that is a reason forthem to buy at that point.
So, like back all those yearsago when I launched my
membership, I did very similarto actually what I do today.
I put out free, valuablecontent.
To start with, it was an emailseries.
I then offered an early birdprice for members and I said up
to this date, you can join forthis price point.
So I would recommend doing thator including some sort of bonus
or freebie that people get.
(31:29):
But I tend to find I don't knowif you do too but a special
price for those first customersis kind of simple and it tends
to work quite well, yeah, I didexactly the same thing, and I
think the other thing that Iwould say your programs is don't
be afraid to sort of rethink.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
You know the pricing or the content if you need to.
You know, just because you'vecreated one thing, if it's not
resonating you can change it.
It's your business.
You can do that Absolutely.
I'm giving you permission.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Absolutely, and there's no perfect.
You know there's no perfectprice.
There's no perfect office suite.
There's no perfect.
You know there's no perfectprice.
There's no perfect office suite.
There's no perfect businessmodel.
It's just about finding whatworks for us and our audience
really at the given time in ourlives as well as our, as our
lives demand different things ofus exactly and and I'm a big
believer in that I just thinkthat you know, through my whole
business journey, which has been30 years, there's definitely
(32:20):
been a lot of different seasonsand whether that's having kids,
or whether that's having youknow ill parents or whatever it
is.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Just being able to work for yourself and to dictate
what it is you choose to do isso important, so don't be afraid
to do that If you're listeningand wondering what can I do now?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Oh, just on that.
It's such a privilege too.
Sometimes I think it's easy toforget I know I do.
I'm like, oh, I've got to dothis.
Cool, I've got to, you know.
But then I'm like, oh, emily,you don't have to leave the
house today, you can.
I'm wearing trackies Like youcan wear trackies on the bottom
half Like you can.
You know, there's so muchamazingness for working for
ourselves.
It's easy to forget becauseit's not easy doing it.
(33:01):
It comes with a lot ofchallenges and stress and not
being able to switch off and allthose types of things.
But I think it's helpful tolook back at you know, a few
years ago, where we were, andthen where we are now, and think
, yeah, you know, this is prettygood, I'm pretty grateful for
it.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I couldn't agree with you more.
I think the pros of having yourown business totally outweigh
anything else.
There is no question about that.
And so that leads me to thisquestion when you think about
your business, what do you thinkhas been or is the secret or
secrets of running a successfulbusiness?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Oh gosh.
Well, that's a big question,justine.
Okay, so I would say, as muchas possible, it's very important
to be clear around the benefitsof your offers and I think that
people can be too wishy-washy,not specific enough, too vague.
So when I look at what soldreally well in my business, I'm
(33:55):
just clear to my audience thisis what it's going to help you
to do.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
Persistence to do so.
I think that's really important.
Persistence so many years instill keeping going, even though
there's been times that havebeen so hard or that felt like
should I get a job, or thisisn't working, or maybe I don't
want to.
You know, persistence,understanding it probably is
(34:17):
going to take more work than youthink in many ways.
And I think the marketing sideof things, you know you, you
have to put yourself out there,you have to pitch yourself.
You, most of us, don't have PRagencies.
I know, justine, you've got onefor your new book, which is
exciting, but for most of us, uh, we've got to do that ourselves
(34:40):
and and I know it can be souncomfortable and I have a lot
of people saying, oh, I don'twant to.
You know, come across in thiscertain way, or I'd rather, it
might just wish my products soldthemselves, but they don't sell
themselves.
You really have to network, bepersistent on your social media,
test and try different things.
Yeah, so a few things there.
I don't think there's one.
There's no one magic bullet.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah, I mean, they're just such great and relevant
insights, and I think it doesn'tmatter if you know you were
starting a business or if you're10 years in or you know 15
years in.
All of those are still asrelevant right now as they were
you know when you started.
Because you're right, you haveto keep marketing, you have to
(35:21):
understand the value you'reproviding and get really clear
on that and I think if you canembrace that and, as you say,
being consistent, showing up,then people are eventually going
to jump on the bandwagon.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
And I've had Justine, because I always look when
people purchase things from me.
I look, okay, how long havethey been on my email list?
And I've had people on my emaillist for a couple of years
until they buy.
So it's just.
It's just, you know, keepingshowing up If you want to give
up in the first 30 days.
You're not going to get veryfar.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, I'm exactly the same.
That's part of my launch everysingle day of the week strategy.
I love it, I love it.
I'm glad I found a kindredspirit.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
I know, I know.
Were you expecting to me to belike?
No, you have to do the launches, Cause everything you said I
was.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I thought you were going to be the live launch
queen and I've no doubt that youare the live launch queen, but
I'm glad to hear that you don'tdo that oh it's just, it's too
much, too much.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
But I just, I just love all the geeky data to be
able to look at every day andevery week and every month to
say, all right, what's theconversion rate on this page?
Maybe we'll tweak and test this, and but just going back cause
this might be interesting forpeople to hear is to give your
audience what they want.
So my audience tell me, youknow, I want to know how to
(36:40):
launch my course, I want tolaunch my first.
Hey, you know, you don't haveto do that again.
Now it's out there, you've gotit created.
Let's look at how you cancontinue to make sales.
So that's just a little examplethere, I guess, of giving your
audience what they want, butthen also giving them what they
need and teaching them what youknow this is another way of
doing it if it resonates withyou.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
And sometimes it's as simple as the permission right.
So just giving peoplepermission to do things their
way.
I think, is really important.
So thank you, emily, so muchfor being on the podcast today.
It's been a very long time incoming.
I think I've said to you fiveor six times I have to get you
(37:17):
on the podcast.
We've finally done it.
So what is the best way forlisteners to connect with you?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, well, thank you , Justine, and I hope we chat
again soon.
I can be found.
Website Emily OsmondO-S-M-O-N-D.
Instagram Emily Osmond they'reprobably the two best places to
check me out, and I also lovewhen people listen to an episode
, because it's kind of weird,isn't it, Justine?
You don't know who is actuallylistening, but send me a dm on
instagram.
Let me know you listened ifthere was a takeaway you want to
(37:45):
share.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I always love hearing love hearing amazing and, of
course, the emily osborne show,emily's podcast, if you would
like to listen to that too nowbefore we go.
Yes, I have one last questionfor you.
Yes, if you could have abillboard with anything on it,
what would it be?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
she's thrown another curveball folks oh, okay, with a
message it can be whatever youwant, oh gosh, okay.
A quote that resonates quite alot with me and it was kind of
the first personal developmentquote that I ever heard I think
(38:23):
was you can, if you think youcan, yes, and so I think I'd put
that one on there.
I just think it's.
I just never really heard ofsomething explained in that way.
I saw it in a magazine when Iwas at university, ripped it out
and put it on my wall and Ijust thought, oh, that's
interesting, and it helped giveme a bit of a, I guess, a bit of
drive and motivation andconfidence to go for things,
even though I just thought, god,there's no way I'm going to be
(38:44):
offered this position or there'sno way that I can do this.
Well, okay, maybe if I leaninto that a little bit more.
So why don't we put that?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
on there, and it's so true, because you can.
If you think you can, you can.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
If you go in with the defeatist mentality, I think it
just makes it impossible.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Absolutely, Emily.
Thank you so much.
It's been an absolute joytalking to you today and good
luck with the baby and good luckwith that secret book project
that you're working on yesdeadline.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
No, it's good, Give me accountability.
I said the book will be writtenbefore the baby comes, so it's
a race to see who wins.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Thanks, Emily.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Thanks for listening to the Secrets of Successful
Business podcast.
For more information on allthings business, head to
flossycomau and make sure youhit subscribe on the show so you
don't miss another new episode.
If you're enjoying the show,please give it a quick rating or
review, share it on yoursocials or with friends who
might enjoy it.
(39:42):
Catch you next time.
you're listening to the secrets of successful
business podcast, your go-tosource for business tips, tricks
and proven strategies that willhelp you create a streamlined
and profitable business.
We chat to the best minds inbusiness about their journey.
It's my business and I'll do itmy way, how they started,
rather than going harder to getmore focus on growing more with
(00:25):
what you have, what they learnedalong the way.
How long are you going to givethis what?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
compromises are you going to make?
Just because you can do itdoesn't mean that you should do
it.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's really important to remember that it's a long
game and, of course, we'll askthem for their secret sauce for
creating a successful business.
If you're not failing, you'renot doing it right.
You should be struggling attimes.
That is part of the journey.
Join us as we take a sneak peekbehind the curtain, talk
solutions for those businesspain points working smarter, not
harder, mindset and thechallenges of fitting it all in
(00:57):
with the demands of today's busylifestyle.
If you're a business owner,side hustler or just starting
your business journey, thispodcast is for you.
Now here's your host, businesscoach and content creator,
justine McLean from FlossieCreative.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hello and thanks for joining me on the podcast today.
In case we haven't met, I'mJustine, a small business owner
on a mission to uncover andshare the secrets of creating
and running a profitable,sustainable and successful
business.
I've been in business for over20 years now and I get to use
all that I've learned along theway to help other women in
business reduce the overwhelm,gain visibility around their
(01:37):
numbers, charge what they'reworth and make more money.
It's about designing a life youlove that fits into your
definition of success.
So if I can help you create theprofitable business you deserve
, please reach out Now withoutfurther ado, let's dive into
today's episode.
Emily Osman quit her job tostart a business when she was 26
(02:00):
.
She had no plan, but with amortgage to service her business
idea had to work.
But, as Emily says, after awild ride on the entrepreneurial
rollercoaster, she now boasts aglobal business that delivers a
suite of online programs, andshe's also the host of the Emily
Osman Show, a podcast with overhalf a million downloads and
(02:24):
that's listened to in over ahundred countries.
Emily knows firsthand thatbusiness success is about
believing that you can create abusiness on your terms that
provides the income, lifestyleand freedom you desire.
It's about connection overperfection and being brave
enough to suck at something newover perfection and being brave
(02:48):
enough to suck at something new.
Emily's words and on the show.
Today.
We're chatting about running abusiness in today's economy and
why adding an online businessmight just be the way to move
your business forward.
Hi, emily, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Thank you, Justine.
I'm really delighted andhonored to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
It's like I'm thrilled to talk to you because
I feel like we've been orbitingaround one another for a while
now talking online, but it's solovely to connect in person.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
You know it really is .
We've already had a greatdiscussion.
I could chat with you all day.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
We should have hit record ages ago, right?
Oh dear, Now look, before wekick off, I'd love if you could
share a little bit aboutyourself and your business with
the audience, just so they canget to know a little bit more
about you.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, no worries.
So I'm in the marketing spaceonline marketing and I'm really
passionate about helping smallbusiness owners to improve their
marketing and learn how to doit themselves.
I have a master ofcommunications degree.
I wrote my thesis on socialmedia and I had a very short
stint of working for someoneelse and I guess I've always
(03:51):
kind of had that desire to be myown boss and run my own
business in a way, started as afreelancer and worked in tourism
for that stint full-time, whichwas the best job ever really
doing digital marketing for aregional tourism body.
But really ultimately I justwanted to give it a go, going
(04:12):
out on my own, picked up somedifferent clients, got a lot of
experience working acrossdifferent assets of marketing,
and I got to a point a few yearsinto my business where I found
I was repeating myself in thestrategies I was sharing with my
clients and I realized that thepart that I loved most about
what I was doing was reallyteaching them how they could
(04:32):
manage their own marketing andlearn how to do it themselves,
versus me delivering them astrategy.
And this was about six years agoand I'd heard the idea of this
online course thing, but up tillthat point I had kind of
dismissed it as something thatcould work for me.
I thought I'm only seeing theseAmerican, big American
(04:52):
personalities doing this.
I'm introverted.
I just, for many reasons,thought this isn't something I
can do.
But I was listening to apodcast which is the power of
podcasting, I think and I heardthis other lady saying she was
an introvert and she hadlaunched this membership
teaching people social media andI thought, well, okay, maybe
this is something I can give ago, and so I created my online
(05:14):
membership and that was, like Isaid, about five, six years ago
and that's been a whole newjourney and loads of learnings
from there.
And today I continue to runthat and help really
predominantly now it's onlinebusiness owners.
So service providers, experts,consultants, help them to market
themselves online, and I alsohelp people as well that want to
(05:35):
turn their knowledge andexpertise into a leveraged offer
with an online course.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
So that's what I do.
Yeah, that's amazing because Imean, I guess you could say
you're a bit of a veteran, then,of the online space, because if
you started this, you know,five, six years ago, like you
said, people weren't doing itback then.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I feel as though I'm not a veteran because there were
those early adopters out there,but I guess I was in that
middle wave, I see, and it was alovely place to be actually
that middle wave, because it waslike road, the wave of COVID,
which was a horrible time but apretty good time, I would say,
(06:12):
for the online course industry,with lots of people, I guess,
locked down at home and lookingto learn new skills, and so that
was quite a nice time for a lotof business and now it's a
whole different time and it's awhole different set of learnings
, and what used to work doesn't,which is, I think, keeping me
humble and probably a lot ofother people and you're right.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I mean, and really that's the elephant in the room
right now.
It's the economy right, becausethere are so many you know
people out there right now.
So many of my clients and I'vegot clients in the small, medium
business kind of space, who arestill doing the same things,
not getting the same results.
They're struggling with leadsand they're just not getting any
(06:55):
new clients because, eventhough we keep being told,
people are still spending.
I think a lot of people arespending on things that make
them happy yeah, yeah, going outto dinner or doing something
with their family and they'reprobably taking a bit of a
backward step when it comes tomarketing their business or
spending money on their business.
(07:16):
So what have you sort oflearned or what advice would you
give to people listening now,who are in that space whether
it's online or providingservices to clients and they're
struggling with their marketingand they're finding it tough to
get new leads?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, first of all, it's not easy.
The key thing is to know thatperhaps what used to work
doesn't work, at least at thispoint in time, and I I myself
have spent far too long beinglike, well, this used to work,
so how can't, how can I justmake it work again?
But when I realized, right,it's time to try some new things
(07:54):
, I think for us we have to, ina way, just check our ego,
because once we have been inbusiness a little while, I guess
we can become a little bitaccustomed to a certain way of
our business working and acertain just.
It kind of gets on a bit of aroll.
And I think when times likethis come about, it's about
trying new things, and when wedo that, there's many chances
(08:17):
that they're not going to work.
And I think that when we're newin business, we just I think
we're more open to that.
In a way, we're like I'm anewbie here, I'm just going to
try these things out.
I don't have huge expectationsperhaps, but when we're more
we've been in business a littlebit longer, it can feel almost
more scary or more intimidating,or more we've got more ego
about it in terms of what we'retrying out that there's that
(08:38):
pressure that it should work now.
So I think just letting go ofwhat used to work, being open to
trying new things and then, ifwe get a bit more specific and
practical there cause I'm I liketo get quite practical is also
not being too attached to ouroffers.
So I've had some students thatwhat used to sell quite well
(08:59):
doesn't so much now, and itsounds like the same with your
community too.
And so looking at, okay, isthere a way that I can serve
people in my audience in a waythat's going to meet them where
they're at now?
How can I adjust my offeringshere and for me myself and my
own business, I'm doing this too, and I'm looking at what would
be an absolute no-brainer, whatis something that is just an
(09:19):
easy yes for people?
What is the thing that theyreally really want Because that
can change too during thesetimes the things that people are
prioritizing, what they want,and the best way to find that
out is to speak to your audience.
You can do this in manydifferent ways surveys, polls,
get on the phone with them, putup a course or something, see if
it sells and then actually goabout and create it.
(09:40):
But I think just being open totrying new offers, really trying
to find out from your audiencewhat is it that they want, and
having that beginner's mindsetagain almost in just that
testing.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
It's such a good way of looking at it.
I mean, I spoke to my groupthis morning and I said
something very similar that it's.
It's sort of now the time toreally get scrappy and think
okay, what what did I do when Ifirst started and, as you say,
what can I really lean into?
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And I think for me.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
The last time we were going through this crisis and
I've been around in business fora long time I thought, right,
I'm just going to diversify intoa couple of different areas and
I'm going to see what sticks.
It was almost like a bit of anexperiment and while I wouldn't
go as far as saying it was likethrowing spaghetti at a wall, it
was definitely an experiment.
(10:32):
And the thing that stuck and atthe time I was devastated by it
and this is sort of nearlyseven years ago was that whole
compliance side of the business,you know, just doing that
day-to-day bookkeeping andsubmitting BAS returns for
clients and that sort of stuffwhich I absolutely loathed doing
(10:53):
, but it sort of introduced meto a whole world of fabulous
business owners.
That's not what I was expecting.
I got to do a whole lot ofone-to-one work with those
people and really becomeinvested in their business, and
then that unexpected kind ofroad was a business that I sold
(11:13):
just over 12 months ago.
So you kind of you never knowwhere something new will lead
you.
Exactly yeah, I think that'sreally important now.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah, for sure, and that getting scrappy thing and
exactly like you said it's.
I think it's hard sometimes forourselves, being so close to
our own business, to to see kindof gaps and opportunities,
which I think it is just makesit even more important to to try
and listen to the market, tryand really dig into what are
people asking for, what arepeople just wanting, and give
(11:45):
them what they want.
That's what I say to mystudents.
I'm like what do your audiencewant?
Give that to them, andsometimes there's so much more
that we want to offer them.
Like it sounds like that wasthe same as you.
You're like right, this is whatpeople want, but perhaps once
they sign on with me, I can alsogive them what I know that they
need too which is the thingthat makes us more excited.
So I think that's a good way toapproach it as well.
(12:05):
What are people asking for,what do they want?
And then you can kind ofsecretly also give them what you
know they should have.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And now someone said this to me this morning.
I'd be interested to get yourthoughts on it.
So one of the things that Ireally kind of advocate is to
build an email list, because Ifeel like you know it's easy to
concentrate on socials, butyou're essentially we've heard
it before you're building yourbusiness on a bit of a rented
space.
So collect those emailaddresses and speak to the
(12:35):
people who are already very warmand in your ecosystem because
primarily we hope they're thepeople that are going to sign on
.
But one of my students thismorning said but nobody's
signing up anymore.
People are so much more savvynow.
They're not trading, they'renot prepared to give their email
.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Oh gosh this makes me excited this question.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
For just you know, some sort of lead magnet.
And I thought yeah, okay, I cansee that because I'm a little
bit reluctant now.
I mean, we're in situationoverload no matter where we look
.
So what's your advice?
Speaker 3 (13:10):
for that question, oh my gosh.
Okay, great question and greatinsight from your student there.
So I would say you just got tomake your lead magnet better,
you've got to give more, you'vegot to make it more valuable,
and this is actually really theway I see as the solution to
everything we're doing.
In a way, we just have to bebetter.
It's like the social mediawhat's going to work?
(13:31):
We've got to be more strategic.
Think more about what we'resharing than before, when
previously just a pretty graphicwould get some engagement.
Now no one cares about thatpretty graphic.
So when it comes to your leadmagnet again, it's like what
used to work doesn't really workas well anymore.
Having basically anything as alead magnet used to basically
work Nowadays.
So I can give you an example of.
(13:52):
One of mine is I've thought whatwould over deliver, what would
like, something that couldalmost be should be bought, but
I'm giving it for free.
So instead of giving a downloadand as well, I'm thinking about
consumer behavior.
So I know when I get a downloadI might have a quick look and
then forget about it and I havewhat do they call that?
The graveyard of downloads I'venever actually gone back to,
(14:15):
and I am right in your campthere.
So what I did is I still havethe PDF download that I sent,
but I basically give peopleaccess to a free five-day email
series.
So then every day I'm teachingthem one thing, yes, and the
open rates are fantastic.
I had someone the other dayemail me and say just like,
(14:37):
thank you so much.
This is really helpful andvaluable, and so I think it's
just thinking what would kind ofover-deliver, what is something
a bit different?
If it is just a PDF you'reoffering, I would agree it's.
You're probably not going toget people signing up.
So maybe it's a little videoseries, maybe it's just
something that is a littledifferent and more valuable than
(14:57):
in the past as well, becausepeople are still signing up, but
it's got to be compellingenough for them to want to do so
, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I couldn't agree with you more.
And that's such a good hackright there to just follow up
that PDF download with a reallytailored email that's going to
almost walk people through whatit is you want them to learn or
to get out of that.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
you know the download that you offered, yeah, and
each of those days.
So I break each day if we wantto get even more like specific
here.
So it's like five, five thingsI teach in the PDF.
So each day I then break outone of those things and I give
people an action task.
So I'm like right, this is whatwe've covered.
Here's the thing to go away anddo Just again to make it as
helpful and practical and aseasy to implement as possible so
(15:47):
that hopefully, all of thoseyou're not going to get everyone
that reads the emails, but ofthe people that read the emails,
they're thinking good of me,they're thinking, yep, this, you
know, emily's actually given mesomething valuable here and
then a percentage of them thatare the right fit and ready and
want more help.
And then I talk about hey,here's how you can buy from me.
This is the like, a really goodnext step if you want more help
(16:09):
with this topic.
So then through there, I thenoffer one of my paid offers.
So that's working quite well.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And I heard you say the other day you know that now
is also a good time to sort oflook at the offers that you have
on the table that.
I suppose that ascension model,the value ladder that you're
offering where people can workat you and all those different
levels, and I think it'simportant to do that now too,
(16:34):
and to just pick a price pointor an area where you can really
deliver something of value topeople at a low cost.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, that's right, justine, and I was thinking
about it and it kind of changedthe way that I approach this
myself, because in the past Iwould perhaps create something
and then try and figure out howto price it, and now what I do
is, I think where's the gap inmy business?
That I'm not meeting people atthat, I'm that I could have
(17:03):
something to sell at that wouldhelp people.
Okay, let's choose that pricepoint or that price bracket and
create a really amazing offerthat I, that fits into that
price bracket and and put thatone out there.
So I kind of talk about itbeing the revive.
The reverse pricing strategy is, and I think it just helps
business owners so much.
You might've heard it with yourstudents, perhaps, but it's just
(17:25):
got.
Can anyone tell me what Ishould price this out?
I don't know how much it'sworth.
It's like, okay, well, ifyou've got maybe an offer that's
$5,000 in your business andthat's the lowest price point,
someone can work with you.
Maybe it'd be wise to pop onein there that's at a lower price
point.
Create something to that valuelet's say it's $500.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
That's a win-win for both of you and put that one out
there.
Yeah, totally, and I thinkthat's the key in there.
It has to be a win-win for bothof you yes, because I get
obviously asked that questionall the time and I and you know
I often say somebody said to meonce oh, what's your superpower?
and I said no, pricing is mysuperpower, love that and I
think it's just because I do itin a bit of a different way.
I always make sure that,whatever that price, you know it
(18:07):
is that you're offeringsomething at that.
You covered, you know, the costof doing business your wages,
your super, your tax, yoursavings and you added a profit
to that, and so I think that's akey thing.
It has to be the win-win forboth parties for you as the
business owner and for theperson you're serving, because
so many people now are justtempted to discount and still be
(18:32):
, you know, giving up their timefor much less money, and then
they're wondering why they'renot able to pay themselves a
wage.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yes, yes.
I think that distinction isreally important too, for sure,
for sure and understanding thebasic, like almost the strategic
place that that or strategicrole that that offer plays in
your business too.
Yeah, totally so I see, you'vekind of got those offers that
are the taster of working withyou or learning from you.
And then you go to maybe yourkey and your core offers that
(19:00):
are really like amazing waysthat you can help people a
little bit more in depth or witha little bit more of your time.
And then you're always going tohave those people in your
audience or your customer basethat just want more access to
you or they want it faster, orthey want it in a more luxurious
experience.
So then I say you know, that'skind of your VIP or your luxury
offer, and just looking at, okay, maybe you're missing one in
(19:22):
your business.
Put it out there and see whatthe response is.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I think it's so important because, even if it's
not going to resonate now, it'ssomething that, because business
will change, I mean we'll be inan upswing before we know it,
and I think if you can have allthose bits and pieces in place
before, then it gives you areally good you know framework
to go forward and to make goodmoney in your business.
(19:45):
Yes, yes, one of the thingsthat you are really an expert in
is online business, andobviously I called you a bit of
a veteran and you know, beingaround for six years, I mean, I
think, certainly in Australia, Ithink that is, you know, that's
some pretty good runs on theboard when it comes to online
business, and one of the thingsthat I hear often is oh, maybe
(20:08):
it's too late, or everybody'sdoing it.
So what I mean?
Is it too late to start anonline business and what are
some of the benefits of startingan online business, either as
our sole business or to add intothe business that we've already
got happening?
Brilliant questions.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Justine, you're so good at this.
Maybe we'll do a quick overviewof the benefits and then we can
go to the question is it toolate?
So, benefits online businessand why it was really appealing
to me is just that flexibilitybeing able to work at your own
pace as well, which isespecially something now.
As we were saying, I've got alittle toddler, 21-year-old, and
(20:46):
I'm about to have another baby,so it's pretty critical for me
to be able to if I want tocontinue working, which I do to
be able to have a lot offlexibility there and to drive
my business at a set pace thatcan go up and down around kids
in my life.
Being able to work fromanywhere as well is awesome.
If that's something that appealsto you, and I think as well
(21:06):
with the online business side ofthings, if you are passionate
about teaching and sharing yourknowledge and all of that, that
I think it could be a reallygood fit.
That was certainly what I found.
I just adored seeing thosebusiness owners get the wins and
get the learnings and thenimplement themselves and I know
that that's people that havekind of followed me and done
learned how to create their owncourses tend to say like they
just love, love seeing theirstudents learn and all that type
(21:29):
of thing, and also, as well,the online business.
It can be a pretty low cost wayto get started, versus a
product-based business or justdifferent, different things that
you need a lot more upfrontinvestment and it's very agile
too, so if something's notselling, you can try something
else.
So I love it for that.
It's pretty quick to testthings out and see what the
(21:51):
response is.
So I'd say there are a few ofthe benefits of it In terms of
if it's too late, and thisactually swings around to the
discussion we've been havingaround a lot of things at the
moment in terms of are theystill working?
Is it still worth building youremail list?
I think we've just got to bebetter at delivering our courses
, and when I say better, I meanI think in the past having
(22:13):
something like a $2,000 coursethat was relatively broad.
They tended to still sell.
I think today it's.
I would just encourage peopleto get more specific around
their target student and theoutcome.
They're really that key thingthat they're teaching them.
And then I would also look atthe price points too.
(22:33):
And there was actually a Kajabiwhich is do you use Kajabi?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I use Kajabi yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
So they I mean you might've seen it actually they
sent out an email with just someinsights into their users and
they said that they surveyedpeople that purchased products
from Kajabi and basically it wassaying the price point up to
about $200.
People are kind of happy to buywithout thinking too much Over
$200, they're going to have tothink about it or use a payment
(22:59):
plan.
So just looking at theseinsights can really help inform.
Okay, well, what's just ano-brainer offer you can put out
there when it comes to yourcourse, maybe you're starting
with the smaller type of course.
It's very specific.
You're building people's trustwith you and then from there
you've got this whole group ofcustomers now that have actually
purchased from you A lot ofthem are going to want to keep
(23:19):
working with you and that's whenperhaps you've got your more
higher priced offerings oryou've got your consulting or
you've got your services.
But I just see courses as awonderful way to share that
knowledge.
Do it in a way that doesn'treally require a whole lot of
your time.
Once the course is createdalthough it does require time to
market and sell it, it's notpassive and to build that other
(23:41):
arm into the business, thatdiversification that we were you
touched on as well.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
it is such a great way to get started, um, if,
particularly if, you're leaningtowards going down that road, or
having that road as just partof your business as well,
because, as you say, I mean,it's just such a flexible way to
run a business and that'sreally all I do in my business
now and I absolutely love it.
You know the fact that I've gotthat.
(24:05):
Sure, I'll still workone-on-one with people, but I
can choose when I do that.
So for people who you know wepique their interest, they're
going to create something that'sless than $200.
So they get people buying inwithout thinking about it.
What's some advice you can givefor really, you know, for
getting started now?
Speaker 3 (24:24):
Yeah, and when I say under $200, you know, give or
take, you know you can.
I always encourage people tochoose the price points that
make sense for your business.
Don't have to be that, but Ilook at my own behavior and the
courses that I've purchased overthe past six, six months or so,
and they tend to be around thatprice point.
I'm looking for very specificsolutions to very specific
problems, so I like to follow myown behavior too and put offers
(24:45):
out there that suit.
So, when it comes to gettingstarted, this is actually a bit
of a process that I teach and Ithink so many people tend to
spend months and months in thecourse creation process and
they're like Emily, I'm creatinga course, or maybe it's this
time next year, and they're like, oh, I just I still haven't
quite got around to that.
So I encourage people toactually you need to just start
(25:07):
selling it to see if people wantit.
So I would put out similar towhat I do in my business is put
out a bit of a free training orsome freebie that is very
related to your course topic, tosee if there's update, see if
it resonates with people.
From there I would invitepeople to a waitlist.
So you know that.
Okay, yeah, people are showinginterest.
You've said I've got thiscourse coming.
(25:27):
If you've got the price point,I would encourage you to put
that on the waitlist page sothat there's a clear expectation
and understanding of what theprice of your course is going to
be.
So, hey, it's this price point,it's coming in next month or in
a few weeks or whenever itmight be.
And survey the people that jointhe waitlist.
Hey, what's the what could be?
What would make this courseinvaluable to you?
What can I include in it thatwould really help solve this
(25:50):
problem for you?
And this is what we spoke about, I think, right at the start in
terms of finding out what youraudience want and then giving
them what they want and not likeletting ourselves stand in the
way.
And then from there, I wouldoutline what's going to be in
the course, get your sales pageup.
You can create as much of thecourse upfront, as you want, but
I would just encourage you asquick as you can, to put it out
there and offer it for sale andthen from there you can start
(26:15):
building out the content as wellwith your first cohort of
students and using theirfeedback.
Hey, does this make sense?
Is there anything that would bebetter here?
If I missed anything?
And again, you're not going toknow what to completely include
in your course until you havepeople going through it and
asking you the questions andyou're realizing gosh, okay, I
pitched this at a bit more, orthe content in here is a little
bit advanced.
I think I need a bit morebeginner content to help people
at the earlier stages, or I'vemissed this whole thing that
(26:35):
people need, or whatever thatlooks like.
So it's a very iterative processand that's the way that I think
it should be in terms of ourmarketing and our products and
everything really is to do it intandem with our audience and
always seek to look at how wecan better serve them, better
answer their questions.
Yeah, evolve and adapt.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Because that's it, you know.
I mean, you might think you'vegot your nation, you might think
that you know the problem thatyou're solving, but, as you said
and I mentioned this to youbefore we hit record sometimes
you don't know what the biggestproblem is.
So obviously I'm talking aboutbusiness finance, and when I
created my course and I wrote mybook, I'm thinking, okay, the
biggest problem is that peopledon't have these great
(27:15):
foundations in place and thesegood money habits, and
absolutely you know they're twoareas that we can improve.
But it turned out that thebiggest concern for my potential
clients right now was aroundmindset and money and how to
kind of deal with their thoughtsand feelings about money and
then how that informed theirbusiness, and I found that
(27:36):
fascinating.
So I think your process, youknow, makes a lot of sense for
people because it's just goingto help you create a product
that people are going to want totalk about and share, and also
it just helps you create yourcourse, it just helps you get it
out there.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
So it's not a year's time, it's not a year's time,
and that's the thing it's.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I don't think your first I just take the pressure
off yourself.
Your first launch and even your10th launch isn't going to be
perfect, but once you have yourcourse created, you've got way
more.
What's the word Imperative?
Is it To go ahead and actuallymarket it and get it out there
and sell it?
So I think if you can just getit kind of first launched,
that's then going to just buildthat momentum and help snowball
(28:19):
growing it into the months andyears to come, and that's what
we spoke about.
You know the benefits of onlinebusiness.
You can do it at your own pace,but you can't sell something
that doesn't exist.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, totally, and let's just talk about that whole
launch idea for a minute and Iguess the best way to attract
that first client, becauseobviously a lot of people follow
that launch formula when itcomes to their online courses
people here in Australia, peopleinternationally as well.
I actually moved away from thatprocess last year.
(28:51):
Why?
Because I am lazy and when Isaw how much work went into a
launch I was like man.
I just don't think I can keepdoing that on repeat.
But the other thing was in myfield in particular.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I think when people need help with their money, they
need it right now and not inthree months time when the doors
open again.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So what are your thoughts on those live launches
and what's the best way toattract that first customer?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
It's great.
I think we're the same person,justine, so I'm exactly the same
, and so I don't after I've puta product out there I don't
really do launches, so I preferto then sell my products always,
always open, always available,always around the clock, because
, like you said, I think thatoften when people want something
, they've got enough reason inthemselves to go ahead and make
(29:42):
a purchase.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I'm the same myself.
If I want something, I want togo and buy it.
I'm very impatient.
So, if I see well, they're notlaunching for six months, I'll
probably just go find anothersolution.
It's not really for me, andalso I do find launches a whole
lot of time, a whole lot ofenergy.
So this is the kind of thething that I teach.
You just got to get that firstlaunch done, to force you to
(30:04):
create your program and to getthose first students in.
From there, we then, I wouldrecommend moving to more the
evergreen model, and it's justway more life-friendly in my
opinion.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, so I could not way less stressful.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I'd rather see sales coming in every month and
knowing what I can tweak versusrelying on one or two big
launches a year that I think arepretty risky if you don't hit
the goals, and then you've toldeveryone well, I'm not opening
for six months.
So that's my opinion on that Interms of getting those first
students into the course.
A similar strategy to what Ishared around putting something
(30:40):
out there that's very related toyour course topic to give
people that value upfront and toreally kind of position you as
the expert that you are and thenfrom there inviting them hey,
if you loved this, I've got thiscourse.
And then also you can justinvite your audience to say, hey
, jump on the waitlist, it'sopening on this date.
And also letting your audienceknow hey, this course is now
open and I would to encouragethose early sales offer
(31:08):
something that is a reason forthem to buy at that point.
So, like back all those yearsago when I launched my
membership, I did very similarto actually what I do today.
I put out free, valuablecontent.
To start with, it was an emailseries.
I then offered an early birdprice for members and I said up
to this date, you can join forthis price point.
So I would recommend doing thator including some sort of bonus
or freebie that people get.
(31:29):
But I tend to find I don't knowif you do too but a special
price for those first customersis kind of simple and it tends
to work quite well, yeah, I didexactly the same thing, and I
think the other thing that Iwould say your programs is don't
be afraid to sort of rethink.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
You know the pricing or the content if you need to.
You know, just because you'vecreated one thing, if it's not
resonating you can change it.
It's your business.
You can do that Absolutely.
I'm giving you permission.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Absolutely, and there's no perfect.
You know there's no perfectprice.
There's no perfect office suite.
There's no perfect.
You know there's no perfectprice.
There's no perfect office suite.
There's no perfect businessmodel.
It's just about finding whatworks for us and our audience
really at the given time in ourlives as well as our, as our
lives demand different things ofus exactly and and I'm a big
believer in that I just thinkthat you know, through my whole
business journey, which has been30 years, there's definitely
(32:20):
been a lot of different seasonsand whether that's having kids,
or whether that's having youknow ill parents or whatever it
is.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Just being able to work for yourself and to dictate
what it is you choose to do isso important, so don't be afraid
to do that If you're listeningand wondering what can I do now?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Oh, just on that.
It's such a privilege too.
Sometimes I think it's easy toforget I know I do.
I'm like, oh, I've got to dothis.
Cool, I've got to, you know.
But then I'm like, oh, emily,you don't have to leave the
house today, you can.
I'm wearing trackies Like youcan wear trackies on the bottom
half Like you can.
You know, there's so muchamazingness for working for
ourselves.
It's easy to forget becauseit's not easy doing it.
(33:01):
It comes with a lot ofchallenges and stress and not
being able to switch off and allthose types of things.
But I think it's helpful tolook back at you know, a few
years ago, where we were, andthen where we are now, and think
, yeah, you know, this is prettygood, I'm pretty grateful for
it.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I couldn't agree with you more.
I think the pros of having yourown business totally outweigh
anything else.
There is no question about that.
And so that leads me to thisquestion when you think about
your business, what do you thinkhas been or is the secret or
secrets of running a successfulbusiness?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Oh gosh.
Well, that's a big question,justine.
Okay, so I would say, as muchas possible, it's very important
to be clear around the benefitsof your offers and I think that
people can be too wishy-washy,not specific enough, too vague.
So when I look at what soldreally well in my business, I'm
(33:55):
just clear to my audience thisis what it's going to help you
to do.
So I think that's reallyimportant.
Persistence to do so.
I think that's really important.
Persistence so many years instill keeping going, even though
there's been times that havebeen so hard or that felt like
should I get a job, or thisisn't working, or maybe I don't
want to.
You know, persistence,understanding it probably is
(34:17):
going to take more work than youthink in many ways.
And I think the marketing sideof things, you know you, you
have to put yourself out there,you have to pitch yourself.
You, most of us, don't have PRagencies.
I know, justine, you've got onefor your new book, which is
exciting, but for most of us, uh, we've got to do that ourselves
(34:40):
and and I know it can be souncomfortable and I have a lot
of people saying, oh, I don'twant to.
You know, come across in thiscertain way, or I'd rather, it
might just wish my products soldthemselves, but they don't sell
themselves.
You really have to network, bepersistent on your social media,
test and try different things.
Yeah, so a few things there.
I don't think there's one.
There's no one magic bullet.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah, I mean, they're just such great and relevant
insights, and I think it doesn'tmatter if you know you were
starting a business or if you're10 years in or you know 15
years in.
All of those are still asrelevant right now as they were
you know when you started.
Because you're right, you haveto keep marketing, you have to
(35:21):
understand the value you'reproviding and get really clear
on that and I think if you canembrace that and, as you say,
being consistent, showing up,then people are eventually going
to jump on the bandwagon.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
And I've had Justine, because I always look when
people purchase things from me.
I look, okay, how long havethey been on my email list?
And I've had people on my emaillist for a couple of years
until they buy.
So it's just.
It's just, you know, keepingshowing up If you want to give
up in the first 30 days.
You're not going to get veryfar.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, I'm exactly the same.
That's part of my launch everysingle day of the week strategy.
I love it, I love it.
I'm glad I found a kindredspirit.
Speaker 3 (36:03):
I know, I know.
Were you expecting to me to belike?
No, you have to do the launches, Cause everything you said I
was.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I thought you were going to be the live launch
queen and I've no doubt that youare the live launch queen, but
I'm glad to hear that you don'tdo that oh it's just, it's too
much, too much.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
But I just, I just love all the geeky data to be
able to look at every day andevery week and every month to
say, all right, what's theconversion rate on this page?
Maybe we'll tweak and test this, and but just going back cause
this might be interesting forpeople to hear is to give your
audience what they want.
So my audience tell me, youknow, I want to know how to
(36:40):
launch my course, I want tolaunch my first.
Hey, you know, you don't haveto do that again.
Now it's out there, you've gotit created.
Let's look at how you cancontinue to make sales.
So that's just a little examplethere, I guess, of giving your
audience what they want, butthen also giving them what they
need and teaching them what youknow this is another way of
doing it if it resonates withyou.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
And sometimes it's as simple as the permission right.
So just giving peoplepermission to do things their
way.
I think, is really important.
So thank you, emily, so muchfor being on the podcast today.
It's been a very long time incoming.
I think I've said to you fiveor six times I have to get you
(37:17):
on the podcast.
We've finally done it.
So what is the best way forlisteners to connect with you?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, well, thank you , Justine, and I hope we chat
again soon.
I can be found.
Website Emily OsmondO-S-M-O-N-D.
Instagram Emily Osmond they'reprobably the two best places to
check me out, and I also lovewhen people listen to an episode
, because it's kind of weird,isn't it, Justine?
You don't know who is actuallylistening, but send me a dm on
instagram.
Let me know you listened ifthere was a takeaway you want to
(37:45):
share.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I always love hearing love hearing amazing and, of
course, the emily osborne show,emily's podcast, if you would
like to listen to that too nowbefore we go.
Yes, I have one last questionfor you.
Yes, if you could have abillboard with anything on it,
what would it be?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
she's thrown another curveball folks oh, okay, with a
message it can be whatever youwant, oh gosh, okay.
A quote that resonates quite alot with me and it was kind of
the first personal developmentquote that I ever heard I think
(38:23):
was you can, if you think youcan, yes, and so I think I'd put
that one on there.
I just think it's.
I just never really heard ofsomething explained in that way.
I saw it in a magazine when Iwas at university, ripped it out
and put it on my wall and Ijust thought, oh, that's
interesting, and it helped giveme a bit of a, I guess, a bit of
drive and motivation andconfidence to go for things,
even though I just thought, god,there's no way I'm going to be
(38:44):
offered this position or there'sno way that I can do this.
Well, okay, maybe if I leaninto that a little bit more.
So why don't we put that?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
on there, and it's so true, because you can.
If you think you can, you can.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
If you go in with the defeatist mentality, I think it
just makes it impossible.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Absolutely, Emily.
Thank you so much.
It's been an absolute joytalking to you today and good
luck with the baby and good luckwith that secret book project
that you're working on yesdeadline.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
No, it's good, Give me accountability.
I said the book will be writtenbefore the baby comes, so it's
a race to see who wins.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Thanks, Emily.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Thanks for listening to the Secrets of Successful
Business podcast.
For more information on allthings business, head to
flossycomau and make sure youhit subscribe on the show so you
don't miss another new episode.
If you're enjoying the show,please give it a quick rating or
review, share it on yoursocials or with friends who
might enjoy it.
(39:42):
Catch you next time.
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