June 24, 2024 • 51 mins
Thrilled to have personal finance expert Sarah Megginson join me on the podcast this week to talk about money.
In this episode we talk about money confidence and how to make better money decisions both in business and in life. We chat about those financial pitfalls we all encounter from pay now, pay later to falling for the ever-growing range of money scams.
We're discussing practical tips and sharing actionable advice to help you incorporate and maintain healthy financial habits - from monthly money meetings to mindset and everything in between. Tune in to master your money and design a life you love!
This episode is brought to you by Become A Business Money Magnet - Simple habits to manage your money and supercharge your profits!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to the Secrets of Successful
Business podcast, your go-tosource for business tips, tricks
and proven strategies that willhelp you create a streamlined
and profitable business.
We chat to the best minds inbusiness about their journey,
how they started, what theylearned along the way.
How long are you going to givethis Going harder to get?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
more Focus on growing more with what you have.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
What they learned along the way.
How long are you going to givethis?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
What compromises are you going to make?
Just because you can do itdoesn't mean that you should do
it.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's really important to remember that it's a long
game and, of course, we'll askthem for their secret sauce for
creating a successful business.
If you're not failing, you'renot doing it right.
You should be struggling attimes.
That is part of the journey.
Join us as we take a sneak peekbehind the curtain, talk
solutions for those businesspain points working smarter, not
harder, mindset and thechallenges of fitting it all in
(00:57):
with the demands of today's busylifestyle.
If you're a business owner,side hustler or just starting
your business journey, thispodcast is for you.
Now here's your host, businesscoach and content creator,
justine McLean from FlossieCreative.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Hello and thanks for joining me on the podcast today.
In case we haven't met, I'mJustine, a small business owner
on a mission to uncover andshare the secrets of creating
and running a profitable,sustainable and successful
business.
I've been in business for over20 years now and I get to use
(01:35):
all that I've learned along theway to help other women in
business reduce the overwhelm,gain visibility around their
numbers, charge what they'reworth and make more money.
It's about designing a life youlove that fits into your
definition of success.
So, if I can help you createthe profitable business you
deserve, it's about designing alife you love that fits into
your definition of success.
So if I can help you create theprofitable business you deserve
, please reach out Now.
Without further ado, let's diveinto today's episode.
(01:57):
Hi everyone and welcome to thepodcast.
Today I have an extra specialguest with me.
Her name is Sarah Megenson.
Now, sarah is a personalfinance expert and she has over
20 years of experience by day.
She's the head of editorial forfindercomau, which is a
financial comparison sitededicated to helping everyone
(02:18):
make better money decisions, butshe's also a regular columnist
for Yahoo Finance and the MoneyMagazine and frequently appears
on TV, radio and in digital andprint media.
I'm sure you've seen hersomewhere.
In 2023 alone, her tips andadvice were featured over 1,200
times.
(02:38):
Now, what makes Sarah extraspecial to me is she also
happens to be the editor of mybrand new book Become a Business
Money Magnet Simple Ways toManage your Money and
Supercharge your Profits.
Sarah was an incredibleresource for me.
She was that sense check thatread through the book and made
sure it all made sense, so I'llbe forever grateful to Sarah for
(03:02):
her comments and her thoughtsand her edits around my book.
Now, today, sarah and I havedecided to join forces because
we're both really passionateabout helping women particularly
increase their financialliteracy, and one of the things
that we really want to put astop to is women everywhere
saying you know what?
I don't do money, because it'sa narrative that just isn't
(03:24):
serving us in 2024, and now isthe perfect time to change it.
Sarah's also going to share herinsights from her recent trips
to the UN Women's Summit in NewYork and Money 2020 in Bangkok,
so there's lots to talk about.
Let's get into it.
Hi, sarah, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I'm very happy to be here.
It's so lovely to have a chat.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
It's very exciting because we've been working
together quite closely over thelast few months bringing my book
to life.
I was just saying I couldn'thave done it without you.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Oh, I appreciate that , but all the magic was yours.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Thank, you For people who don't know you?
Can you start by telling usjust a bit about yourself, what
you do and, in particular, thepassion that we both share about
helping people make bettermoney decisions, and why that's
important to you?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yes, awesome, my name is Sarah Megenson.
Obviously I'm a personalfinance expert and I've been a
finance journalist for a coupleof decades, for probably 22 odd
years and over that time I'vehad the chance I was managing
editor of a couple of magazinesand for the last four years I've
been working at a comparisonsite called findercomau, where
I'm head of editorial and Imanage our team of writers and
(04:39):
stuff there.
So over that time I've had thechance to interview so many
different people in reallydiverse and interesting roles,
so that everyone from bank CEOsand tech kind of unicorn CEOs
through to politicians, deputyprime ministers, titans of
industry, like I've just.
I've interviewed all of thesereally smart, switched on people
(04:59):
and you start to pick up themesand ideas and understand what
makes people tick and you alsostart to understand that these
are the decision makers thatreally shape the world we live
in.
So that's why I find it sofascinating and why I've always
been, you know, so lucky to be ajournalist and get access to
these people, because I lovefiguring out, you know the
decisions they make and why theymake them and how they impact
(05:21):
us in the real world, and that'swhat I'm really passionate
about is trying to take thoseconcepts and those ideas and
make them really easy foreveryday people to understand
when it comes to the economy, tointerest rates, to cost of
living, to all of these thingsthat impact everyday Australians
.
You know, just recently, lastmonth or a little while ago, we
had the federal budget.
(05:42):
I can remember in my 20s noteven caring about the federal
budget, not even reallyunderstanding it, didn't
understand the purpose of it orwhy I should have any interest
in it whatsoever.
I love now being able to takesomething like that and try to
make it meaningful for peopleand try to help them understand
how these big things impact themand why their interest rates
are going up, why inflationmatters and why they should care
(06:03):
about this stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, I think that's so true, isn't it?
Because we, you know, as peoplewho obviously you and I get the
finances, but as people whodon't get finances, all this
stuff is often a soundbite on TVand it depends on the slant of
the journalist or theorganisation that's sending the
message out, or theinterpretation of what we're
(06:25):
listening to a politician say,or the governor of the reserve
bank.
That will determine how we sortof, you know, take in that
information and react to it.
And I think it's just sohelpful to help people, you know
, to have people like you whocan put this stuff into plain
English, because for so often,for so many of us and I think
(06:46):
women in particular there's thisnarrative that we just don't do
money In school.
We kind of get taught just Ipresume it's the same as it was
when I went to school a load ofrubbish.
Frankly, that is not going tohelp you unless you're doing a
science degree at university.
It's not going to help you ineveryday life.
And so a lot of us willnaturally think, oh well, we
(07:11):
just can't, we can't deal withthe numbers and, you know, I
think when we think about 2024,that narrative just is no longer
serving us.
You know, why do you think weneed to really lean in and start
to change that narrative?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
It's so funny you say that.
Just this morning my daughtershe's in grade eight and she was
whinging about her algebrahomework and she's like, when am
I ever going to use algebra?
I said don't be surprised, butit depends what your career is.
When you get older she goesmaybe if I want to be an algebra
teacher.
But no, it is such a greatquestion and I think this idea
that I don't do money or I don'tdo numbers, it comes from a
(07:46):
lack of confidence usuallyaround how we interact with
money and numbers.
But I just think the stakes aretoo high to not engage with it
anymore.
The thing that we miss out onyou know just from the really
small things.
Again, when I was in my 20sdidn't understand super, didn't
care about it, didn't considerit my money.
But now I realize if in mytwenties I had just been able to
(08:07):
find $20 a week and put it inmy super fund, the impact that
could have had over time tobuild my wealth.
You know probably when youcrunch the numbers somewhere
between tens of thousands andhundreds of thousands of dollars
, more wealth I would have hadjust by engaging in that when I
was a little bit younger.
So I think, yeah, the stakesare too high to ignore your
money and no one is going tosave you.
(08:28):
You're going to have to figureit out eventually.
So you might as well try tofigure it out sooner than later.
And I think you know you'reexactly right.
They don't teach enough of thisstuff in schools and it is.
I think a lot of people, womenin particular can get
overwhelmed by all thecomplexities involved and just
start to tune out of when youhave someone on TV, like you
(08:52):
said, an economist, talkingabout an RBA rate rise and we've
seen a correction in interestrates by 25 basis points and
people tune out.
What does that even mean?
What is a correction to aneveryday person?
What is a correction in themarket or what is a basis point?
No one knows what a basis pointis.
We know what interest rates are.
(09:12):
So that's a really big kind ofpassion of mine is trying to
make sure that I take whateveris happening and then rework it
into being really simple.
You know, the last two yearsI've spoken about inflation more
than I care to ever talk aboutit again.
But you know I was talking tomy husband in the kitchen one
night two years into.
(09:33):
You know this cost of livingprocess.
And he goes what is inflationanyway?
And I said it's just thedifference between what
something cost last year andthis year.
And I was holding, I think, abottle of milk and I said the
bottle of milk last year cost $2and this year it costs $2.20.
That means that bottle of milkhas had inflation of 10%, like
it's just a change in price over12 months.
And he's like, oh, neverunderstood that, just understood
(09:55):
that it's being talked a lot onTV.
So that's really.
You know, a passion of mine isto just make these things as
easy to understand as possible.
Take all the mystery out of it,because when you understand it
you can then start to makedecisions that are really
empowered and that you know putyou in the driver's seat of your
experiences in life.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah, I totally agree with you.
I always say in business youknow, understand the story of
your numbers, so you can be theauthor of your story because you
know, rather than just leavingit to someone else.
And I think it's just asimportant in our personal life.
And I think when you don'tunderstand something, it's easy
to just sort of oh yeah, I don'tdo numbers or I don't
(10:36):
understand that.
And, as you say, a lot of itcomes down to confidence with
our finances and just makingthose better money decisions.
So what are some of the thingsthat we can do right now to help
us become more confident andmake some better money decisions
?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, I think the first thing is to get your head
out of the sand if you areavoiding it.
A lot of people avoid theirfinancial situation for a number
of reasons because they don'tfeel confident in managing it,
they don't understand it orthey're afraid what they'll
discover.
You know a lot of people areoverspending and they think I
just want to avoid that for aslong as possible.
So I think the first step is tojust actually create time for
(11:14):
it and get your head out of thesand and say, okay, I'm going to
actually attack this and I'mgoing to work out my finances.
And then the second thing Iwould say is make it fun.
And I know for a lot of peoplethey're thinking what, how do
you possibly make money fun?
But by that I mean turn it intosomething that doesn't make you
feel drained and anxious justat the thought of doing it.
So you might be a person I am aperson who loves spreadsheets,
(11:37):
so I like tracking all of mystuff in spreadsheets.
For some people, spreadsheetsare their idea of hell, so
everyone has a different systemthat will work for you.
It's just a matter of putting astructure in place.
Whatever that is, I lovetracking all of our money stuff
through spreadsheets, becausethen I can monitor it over time
and I can see the changes.
If that doesn't work for you,you could do something as simple
(11:57):
as a folder where you chuckyour receipts and your invoices
either a real folder in reallife or a folder on your
computer, just that it's all inone place, and then when it's
time to do your tax, you cangive that folder to your
accountant.
You know, you've just got astructure there to capture it.
I also think automating yourmoney is absolutely the biggest
(12:17):
time saver and also the biggestmental energy clarifier.
I guess when people areconstantly thinking about their
bills, it's very draining.
So having your bills automatedand set up so that you have, you
know, one account that is yourbills account, you always make
sure you've got enough money inthat account so you're not
getting overdrawn fees.
But too many people waste toomuch money on late fees and
(12:41):
those types of penalties justbecause they're constantly
scrambling to pay their bills.
So I think automating is areally good way to start as well
.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Yeah, I agree, and you know, when you talk about
some of the reasons that peopleyou know don't look at their
numbers that in the kind of thepile of I'm imagining the pile
of unopened credit card billsand that sort of thing sitting
on the bench it often means thatwe end up making some big
mistakes with our money.
(13:08):
What are the things that you'venoticed over the years that
people are continually makingmistakes with in terms of their
finances, and how can they avoidthose mistakes?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Such a great question .
The really big one in the lastfew years is buy now, pay later.
It has just absolutely explodedand it just makes spending
money you don't have really easy.
The very low barrier to entrythere, so you can shop with
money you don't have and, youknow, pay it off over six weeks.
But there was a study done by auniversity not last year, I
(13:42):
think the year before, a coupleof years ago and they calculated
the true cost of buy now, paylater.
Because they advertisethemselves as no interest, which
is true, but you do get a lotof fees if you don't pay it back
in time.
They worked out an averagepurchase.
I think it was a $50 purchase.
If you didn't pay it back ontime, you could have an
(14:03):
effective interest rate of 267%.
Wow, because the fees theydon't seem much, but the fees
are $8 here, $10 there and theybuild up and up and up.
So if you've got a $50 purchaseand you pay a $10 fee in it
five times, you end up payingdouble for that item and I just
think buy now, pay later.
Really the only way that shouldbe used is if you are buying
(14:27):
something that you can affordand you have the money to pay
for it, but you just want to,for cashflow reasons, spread
that payment out.
So I've used buy now, pay later.
I have some beautiful shelvesbehind me that I bought from
Ikea for $1,500.
And I used Buy Now, pay Laterto buy that because I spread
that $1,500 out over six weeks,paid it on my credit card anyway
(14:48):
, so it was automatically takenout of my credit card, so I
didn't risk at all having a latepayment fee or any type of fee
at all, so I paid nothing for it, but it just meant that that
cost got spread out over twomonths of my credit card instead
of one month.
That, to me, is the only goodtime to use buy now, pay later.
Every other use of it just hasthe potential to get you in
(15:11):
financial trouble.
And you can have multipleaccounts going so you could have
four different brands going andhave outstanding buy now, pay
later arrangements with each ofthem.
And very quickly you're introuble because you've got to
find $700 this pay to keep up todate on all of them.
And then you're.
We actually just at Finder justthis week did some research and
(15:32):
found that people are skippingother things, that they're
skipping out on making personalloan repayments, or some people
are actually skipping meals tobe able to have that money to
put towards their buy now, paylater.
So I think that's a really.
It's really correlated with therise in online shopping and
impulse shopping.
The other stat we just found atFinder recently is that we
(15:54):
spend an average of $44 a weekimpulse shopping and that's you
know.
We've all done that.
Before you're scrolling onsocial media, there's an ad for
something.
Within the space of threeclicks, boop, boop, boop, it's
in your cart, you've got it, thepackage is coming.
It's a quick little dopaminehit.
But we're not thinking thingsthrough the way we would and
have in the past.
Now my mom, when she wasshopping 30 years ago, she was
(16:15):
at a shop using cash You'rereally mindful about.
Do I need this item?
And if my mom was standing atthe register and she's got $50
and knows she needs to buy usdinner that night, then well,
this item's going back.
I'm not going to buy it.
But these days we can just veryquickly, I can flick that off
to buy now, pay later, and Idon't actually even have to
spend anything on it now and Istill use the money I had set
(16:38):
aside for dinner tonight I canstill use.
So it encourages us to be lessmindful about our money and our
spending.
So I am a really big fan ofminimizing buy now, pay later in
your life if you can, because Ijust don't think it sets you up
for any positive habits withyour budget.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I think that's such good advice, and quite often you
know we attach our credit cardto that, so then our credit
card's blowing out as well.
And I think credit card debt,you know itself, is sometimes
hard to.
You know, once that horse isbolted and you can't, or if you
can't, make the minimum payment,it's really hard to get that
(17:15):
back under control.
So it just is adding fuel tothe fire, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the only reason I link mycredit card to my Afterpay was
to make sure I never had a fee,so it was always coming off my
Afterpay.
But I actually I joined acouple of different Buy Now, pay
Later platforms just as anexperiment.
I wasn't keen, I'm not a bigfan of them overall myself, but
I joined them as an experiment.
I wasn't keen, I'm not a bigfan of them overall myself, but
(17:41):
I joined them as an experimentto see what impact it would have
on my credit file.
So I did about six months ofspending on it.
Never had any fees or charges,but I did six months of spending
and changed none of my otherhabits.
You know I still had creditcards and everything else stayed
the same largely and my creditnumber score took a real dip.
(18:04):
It went from around I startedat around 859 and it got down to
a low of, I think, 777.
Wow, that was the only thingI'd done differently.
I did it for six months andthen I went okay, this
experiment is now impacting me.
And then I haven't done anytransactions this year and my
(18:25):
credit score is starting to comeback up.
I'm back in the 800s again.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
And just for anyone listening who isn't sure what a
credit score is and how that canhave an impact, can you just
explain that?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yes, great.
So a credit score is kind ofyour resume for credit providers
like the bank.
So it tracks your habits withmoney.
So if you are behind on anybills, it tracks your they call
it positive credit reporting now.
So if you're really good atpaying your bills on time, that
will be recorded on your creditscore.
If you fall behind quiteregularly, if you don't pay off
(18:57):
debts, if you've got a number ofdifferent debts, that can all
impact your credit score.
And the higher your creditscore is, the greater your
chance of getting a loan,whether it's a home loan or a
car loan.
So you really ideally want yourcredit score in good shape.
And the really the fascinatingthing there is that Buy Now, pay
Later platforms.
They sell themselves based onthe fact that you don't need to
(19:18):
have your credit score checkedto use them.
So when you apply for a creditcard, they're going to check
your credit score before theygive it to you.
It's just a part of responsiblelending Buy now, pay later, do
not have to do a credit scorecheck for you, and they kind of
sell themselves based on that,because it makes it very easy
for you to get credit with them,and that's why I did this
experiment.
I wanted to see does itactually?
You know you might not need tocheck my score to provide me
(19:40):
with credit, but does itactually impact my score if I
use it a lot?
So there's just last year.
There's been a raft of newlegislations that have been
proposed around buy now, paylater, because it's very
unregulated at the moment and Ithink you know a bit more
regulation there will help makeit easier for consumers to not
get too caught up in it all.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And just to be clear on that, you know the impact
that you felt was as someone whowas using Buy Now, Pay Later
and paying it off on time.
Yes, and it still impacted yourscore.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
So it's just something.
I must say.
It was an.
It's very anecdotal, you know,like I didn't, I can't 100% say
that caused it, but I didn'tchange anything else.
My home loan didn't change.
I cancelled a credit card andapplied for a different credit
card in that time, but that'ssomething I do all the time.
Anyway, I changed my creditcards every 12 months, so I
(20:30):
didn't change any other habits.
So it's an anecdotal, it's notset in stone, but to me it's
pretty compelling evidence thatthey're not doing positive
things for your financialsituation.
And these days banks, when theyare assessing your applications,
they'll look at your creditscore.
But they also look at you knowit's a range of things.
(20:51):
They look at your income, yourjob history and all of that
stuff.
But they will now look at yourbank statements to see what kind
of relationship you have withspending.
And if they see a lot of buynow, pay later, and a lot of
Uber Eats and a lot of thosereally convenient expenses, that
can actually make it harder foryou to get a loan, because the
banks can view that as being alittle bit reckless and a little
(21:12):
bit uncontrolled orundisciplined in your spending.
So those types of habits youreally want to get in control.
If you are hoping to, you know,borrow money to buy a big
ticket item like a house.
You want to try and get thosehabits in your rearview mirror.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
And banks that's a whole otherpodcast episode.
Let's not even get startedthere Now.
You recently attended a coupleof events.
The UN Women's Summit in NewYork was one of them.
What were some of the impactfullessons or insights that you
gained from that experience?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Ah, yes, that was incredible.
So I went in March to New YorkCity for the United Nations
Commission for the Status ofWomen.
So it's an annual event wherearound 6,000 global kind of
leaders in women's rights cometogether.
So it was just absolutelymind-blowing and life-changing
to be in that space with thoseincredible people, and the
(22:06):
problems to solve were sodiverse.
You know you had people fromevery country, so there were
some some people who they'rerepresenting their, their
countries, where you knowthere's a huge amount of sexual
violence and things againstwomen.
So those women problems tosolve for them are deeply rooted
in safety and giving themaccess to education so that they
can get themselves out of thosesituations.
(22:28):
The the really powerful thingto me was just seeing how many
women are so actively involvedin the solution like they.
There was so many examples ofparticularly young women, like
teenage women and women in theirearly twenties, who are so just
driven and motivated to change,just to change their situation,
(22:50):
to change their opportunities.
In a number of countries, likethroughout Asia and India, there
are so many microfinance kindof platforms being launched and
there was one woman she wasamazing who was are so many
microfinance kind of platformsbeing launched and there was one
woman she was amazing who wastalking about a microfinance
business.
She tried to get off the groundand the banks didn't want to
know her because she wasn't male.
And she finally got somebacking for it and it was a
(23:11):
really small scale, like thetalking cents.
It was a way of rounding upcents to move, you know, one or
two cents into these accountsfor women and you know, one of
the men she was talking to atthe bank was like that's just
going to make no impact, we'renot interested.
And the way, you know, she justhad so much conviction and
drive to just push forward withit and it was such a reminder to
(23:34):
me that, even though it mightseem really, really small, when
you bring all of those, bring anumber of people behind it, you
can actually make a really bigimpact.
So it was incredible and I gotto work to got to know the women
in Australia behind a groupcalled Real Futures and they're
an indigenous group in WesternSydney who are helping women
(23:55):
kind of rebuild and get into theworkforce and that was amazing.
They do everything from, youknow, helping them do
run-throughs for interviews andwhat's that say uniforms, not
uniforms like what to wear to ajob interview and how to budget
and all of that type of thing.
It's really like hands-onpractical tips and advice to
help women thrive.
(24:16):
So it was just amazing to spenda week there.
And to spend a week with all ofthese incredible women and
advocates who are just workingday in, day out to advance the
progress of women around theworld was absolutely incredible.
It definitely has left alasting impact.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And then, of course, there was Money 2020 in Bangkok,
where you mentioned to me thatyou learned about AI, the impact
of AI.
You know scams, deep fakes,scamming in particular.
I did a podcast episode on thisjust last week.
It feels like, you know, it's amatter of if we're going to get
scammed oh sorry, when we'regoing to get scammed, not if for
(24:58):
most of us.
I think Australians have lost$73 million in the first three
months of this year by beingscammed, so that's about an
average of 15 grand a person.
What are some things we can doto protect ourselves from these
increasingly sophisticated scams?
What did you learn out ofBangkok 2020?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Oh gosh, that conference was amazing and it is
so like wild that you use thatstatement, because I had written
in my notes preparing for todaythat scamming is a matter of
when, not if, we will all getdone by it.
It's just a matter of to whatdegree and how, what safeguards
you have in place.
Money 2020 is held in Bangkok.
It's an annual conference whereall of the biggest brands and
names and changemakers andtechnology in money come
(25:48):
together.
One of the things we weretalking about there is how much
scam technology has evolved andis evolving.
So I was speaking to one guy.
He was the head of AI and fraudfor a particular money exchange
platform and he said theproblems he was solving three
months ago are already out ofdate.
Like every day, he's justfacing new ways that people and
(26:10):
he's stress testing his systemevery day trying to find new
ways to hack his own system sothat he can get to those issues
before a real hacker does right.
And one of the big emergingareas that is going to be really
hard for us all is arounddeepfake technology.
Ah, yeah, you know where thevideos can actually take shape
(26:30):
of someone else or voices.
You know we can imitate yourchild's voice on the phone and
say hey, mum, I'm in trouble, Ineed you to send me $2,000
immediately.
And at the conference theyshared the story of one man in
Hong Kong who was in a boardmeeting with his entire board.
A video call on Zoom and hisCEO asked him to transfer $25
(26:51):
million and he did on the calland hung up from the call and
realized it was all deepfakes.
Everyone was a bad actor inthat room.
None of his actual board was inthat meeting and it had been a
month's long kind of process.
Somehow these deepfakes hadinfiltrated his company and I
don't know what ended uphappening, whether they got the
money back, but I think that'sthe real dramatic end of the
(27:14):
scale.
But you know these things arehappening to to everyday
Australians and I think you knowthe figures you quoted before
are really underreported, likeit's billions, because so many
people don't want to admit or,you know, share that they've had
this happen.
It can feel so shameful and soembarrassing to admit that
(27:36):
you've fallen for it, um, butthere's absolutely nothing to be
ashamed about.
It happens to everyone.
I've been scammed twice in thelast year.
One one was somehow someone gotaccess to my credit card and my
bank was amazing because theyactually called us in the middle
of the night and said hey, areyou trying to use your card in
this place?
(27:56):
No, turned out, someone in NewYork had somehow you know
scammed our card and bought$3,000 worth of computer
equipment in New York.
So they could see that we wereon the Gold Coast and it wasn't
us.
And the bank employee said itwas likely that it was just
someone literally spinningnumbers and just lucked on our
number, got the combinationright of our numbers with the
(28:16):
expiry dates and everything.
They have the technology tojust spin millions of options
per second right.
So that was probably just badluck and my bank intercepted it
and refunded it immediately.
So that was really luckybecause that was $3,000.
The other time it happened wasmy own fault.
I got a text that is now verywidespread but I hadn't heard
(28:37):
about it at the past and it wasfrom, apparently from linked
about my toll road.
I very rarely drive on a tollroad and I just happened to get
this text message the day afterI had used a toll road for the
first time in probably two yearsand my account had actually
been suspended a few monthsearlier because it had fallen
(28:57):
behind, there had been an issuewith it, I think, my credit card
had lapsed, and so when I gotthe text message from them, it
very much made sense to me.
I was like, yes, I used a tollroad yesterday and a few months
ago I did receive an emailsaying that my account was
suspended and I had to fix it.
So it made a lot of sense to methat it wouldn't have worked.
And they said put your creditcard details in here to pay your
toll.
(29:17):
I did that and it was veryearly in the morning, it was
about six o'clock in the morning, I was in bed and I just got
the text and I did it.
I put my own credit carddetails in and that was my big
mistake.
Could have been reallyexpensive for me, because as
soon as you engage and you takeaction, you are now responsible
for whatever happens next.
(29:38):
So I was really lucky that assoon as I did it, I pressed pay
and then another alert came upfrom the greedy scammers saying
payment failed, enter your bankdetails here.
And that's when I realized, ohwhoops, this is not legitimate
at all and I immediately justgot out of that window, called
my bank and canceled my card.
So I canceled it before theycould do any damage.
(29:59):
Had they not been greedy andhad just said, yes, your payment
of your $3.50 toll has beenprocessed, I would have assumed
that I had just done somethingreally legitimate and I would
have gone about my day and itprobably would have been days,
if not weeks, until I receivedmy bank statement and saw all of
the charges that they'd put andby them it would have been too
late and it was my fault becauseI had put my details in, I had
(30:23):
engaged with it.
So I'm so grateful they werereally greedy and taught me that
it's happening constantly.
My mum got one just yesterdaywhere she called me, a bit
panicked because she got amessage from an apparent
insurance group saying thatshe'd been in a car accident two
years ago and they were chasingher out for $3,000 and there
was a payment link and therewere so many red flags in it.
(30:46):
But my mom is 73 and not supercomputer and tech literate, so
to her it was very legitimate.
It said, calling from you know,the Australian insurance agency
.
I said there's no such thing asthe Australian insurance agency
.
So there's things you can do tocheck right, but when you're
panicked?
My mom got panicked because shesaid oh well, I actually was in
(31:07):
a fender bender a few years agoand maybe this is legit.
And I said well, there's a fewthings you can do to check.
As soon as she sent it to me, Iknew it was fake.
The main reason I knew it wasfake is because they had a
payment link there immediately.
Now, if you actually did havesomeone reach out after many
years and say you've got thissurprise payment, there would be
a conversation.
They wouldn't send you a linkand say pay here.
(31:29):
There would be an advice of youowe this and here's your
invoice and you've got 30 daysto pay.
You know, government agenciesare usually quite reasonable.
Okay, I'll take that back.
Their payment options areusually quite reasonable and
they will give you, you know,not only a 30-day payment window
, but here are your options Ifyou cannot make this payment.
(31:50):
Here is the payment plan option.
Here is our hardship line.
You know there's actuallylegislation that guides all of
that.
So the fact that they would thisyou know scammer was just
saying click here and pay it wasto me a massive red flag.
But you know, I can see howconvincing.
It is for her, and I am apersonal finance expert.
I'm in this stuff every day.
(32:12):
I am on top of all the scamwatch data and I'm learning
about it all every day and Istill get scammed.
So I think no one is safe fromthis.
It's really difficult and thebest thing you can do is, if you
get any type of communication,email, text or anything that you
receive that you're notexpecting, is to just pause and
(32:35):
take a step back from it andspeak to someone else, because
they will be a sense check foryou, because what these scammers
rely on is that you are verystressed and they'll always put
a timeframe around it, likethere'll be an urgency to it,
because they want to get you offyour even footing so that you
will make a silly decision.
So take a step back, take adeep breath and understand that,
(32:57):
even if this is legit, youdon't have to deal with it this
second.
You can give yourself 24 hoursto figure it out.
So speak to someone you trustand go.
Hey, like my mum did, shereached out to me after a full
day of fretting.
She reached out to me and Ilooked at it and said,
absolutely rubbish, ignore it.
So I think that's the.
This is an absolute like find abuddy situation to try and look
(33:18):
at your next steps.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, because I think life, the pace of life, is so
quick.
Now I think it's.
You know, you see something youthink, look, I'm going to
forget if I don't action this.
Now click, and yeah, I get allthose sort of text messages all
the time and I've always beenthat person to kind of delete,
delete, delete.
But you know, today I got anemail asking me to join the
(33:41):
Illuminati and I just had toclick here.
Lord knows what scam wasinvolved in that.
But you're right, they arereally sophisticated and I think
the best way to safeguard yourpersonal and your financial
information is to, as you say,have that buddy sense.
Check it, do a Google search,see if the phone number matches
(34:02):
up, and essentially, never justbelieve someone when they ring
you up over the phone and payover the phone.
Essentially never just believesomeone when they ring you up
over the phone and pay over thephone.
You can ask for an invoice tobe sent or you can say I'll call
you back and Google the number.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I think that's such a great point.
Just question it and whoever itis, like my mom yesterday, the
first step I would take if thatwas me is I would Google it.
Who is this agency?
And I would have immediatelyrealized they don't exist.
Now, sometimes scammers willcreate these fake websites and
things, but there are ways tosense check.
(34:35):
You know, if you're getting acorrespondence from your bank,
then just call them back, sayokay, I just want to make sure
this is legit.
I'm going to call my bank backand call, hang up the call and
dial the numbers again.
Don't just recall the numberthat called you, because they
can use technology to face that.
It is really difficult nowbecause banks are putting a bit
(34:56):
more of an onus on people andthe consumer to take your own
steps to protect yourself, butthey are also starting to do
things.
The big banks in particular arefacing a lot of pressure to
help people navigate this stuff.
So I've noticed in all of mybanking platforms now, because I
spread partly for scamprotection I spread my accounts
across a number of differentbanks.
(35:17):
So I have an everyday bank, Ihave my mortgage with a
different bank and I have acredit card with two different
banks, so they're all veryspread out, partly because I'm
loyal to me and I'm not loyal toa single brand and partly
because I like to have all of mystuff spread out so that if I
do ever get scammed I don't haveall my eggs in one basket.
And every time I make atransfer it pops up with an
alert in my banks now saying doyou know this person?
(35:38):
Are you sure you want to sendthis money?
This stuff is just happening.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
So constantly now.
Yeah, I think that's such goodadvice.
And I think the other thing is,you know, increasing financial
literacy as you know, justgetting our head out of the sand
, forgetting that I don't donumbers, narrative and
increasing that awareness is sovital.
How do you see, you know therole of media improving that, or
(36:02):
helping to improve financialliteracy and awareness, because
you're in this every day.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yes, and a really fascinating stat about it I find
fascinating anyway is that 75%of the media spokespeople on TV
talking about this stuff are men.
Only 25% are women, which iswhy it's something I'm so
passionate about getting thatfemale perspective out there and
making sure that women arecounting themselves into these
(36:27):
discussions, because we knowthat, like, women tend to tune
out a bit if it's a man talking,if you've got particularly a
man talking about the economyand using language that is not
very accessible.
So if you have a man sittingthere going yes, well, the
economy is moving at a stagnantpace and we've got a two-speed
economy and we need a 60 basispoint correction, like everyone
(36:49):
zones out of that, unless you'rea very specific subset women,
though we respond to just likeaccessibility.
So that's that's why I thinkmedia has a huge role to play
here, and I'm really excitedthat I get the opportunity to
help with that.
I also think a huge part of thepuzzle here is social media,
which is both an opportunity anda potential risk, because
(37:13):
social media has zero barrier toentry, so anyone can get on
social media and give advice,but you know 90% of it is not
accurate.
So I think it's reallyimportant that you kind of just
qualify what you hear and seeand ask yourself if it makes
sense, because there's I see somuch questionable stuff on my
(37:36):
feed about investing or money.
You know even just all sorts ofdifferent strategies.
Some of it is really useful andit's a good thought starter,
but you know there are differentstrategies.
Some of it is really useful andit's a good thought starter,
but you know there are differentstrategies for different people
and there's a reason whyfinancial advisors need to do so
much training and that you knowthe industry is so regulated
(37:56):
because they're giving youadvice about your finances that
impact your entire future.
So you know you don't want tobe taking advice from any old
person From someone in alike-minded bitches or whatever
that podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Facebook platform.
So many people ask forfinancial advice in there.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, and you know it's great.
I really am a big fan of havingthese conversations.
You should absolutely have moreof these conversations.
I love people talking about howmuch they earn.
I had a friend who got a newjob and she was talking to her
friends about it and she sharedhow much the new salary was.
And her friend said you shouldask for a signing bonus.
And she said what?
And the friend said why don'tyou ask for one?
(38:39):
You've got nothing to lose.
So she went back and said okay,yeah, I'm happy with that
salary, but I'd like a $10,000signing bonus.
And they said yes, and that'sthe power to me of making sure
we're all talking to each otherthe way men do.
Men have had theseconversations for millennia.
(38:59):
It's time for us to make moneypart of our daily conversations
and uplift each other, show eachother what's possible there.
But you know, conversationswith girlfriends and social
communities is one thing, butactually getting advice about
what to do with your money, youshould turn to the experts for
that, and I myself I you know.
I consider myself a personalfinance expert, but I'm not a
financial advisor.
I have a couple of ASICrecognized accreditations and
I've got a couple of decades ofexperience, but I'm not a
(39:21):
qualified advisor, so I'm reallymindful that I don't give
people personalized advice.
I'm licensed through Finder togive general advice advice that
is general in nature.
But you know, I often getemails from people through the
website and that was veryspecific.
You know, I've got my loan is Xamount of dollars and I'm 62
(39:41):
and I plan to retire in sixyears and where should I put my
money?
And I will always politelyreply and say here's the details
of a great financial advisorthat can help you with that.
Here's some guides on ourwebsite that can help you
understand it a bit better.
But you know these are.
We're talking about yourfinancial future and your
retirement and there's, like Isaid at the beginning, the
stakes are just so high here, soyou want to make sure that
(40:04):
you're getting that advice ofsomeone really trustworthy.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think the thing is you're
right, you know, I mean I'm aregistered BAS agent.
We have a very regulatedindustry.
So within that sort offinancial services, you've got
financial advisors, accountantsand BAS agents in their three
different categories and we allhave to have very specific
(40:27):
education and then go on andhave specific, you know,
training in a certain area to beable to give that advice.
So your accountant just so youknow people understand might not
necessarily be able to givefinancial advisory advice
because they're actually notlicensed to do it.
So, yeah, it's really important.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
I have seen that blow up spectacularly where?
Because I used to be the editorof a property investing
magazine and you know I canremember a story once of an
investor whose accountant gavethem really poor advice about
their how to structure theirinvestment, because they were
trying to help them kind of makethe most of negative gearing
but it didn't have a long-termview, it was very much
(41:10):
structured for now and then theyeventually went to a financial
advisor who just was like you've, basically you've got it in the
wrong structure and the wrongname and when you sell it you're
going to make you know it wasjust all poorly done and that's
the risk of, you know, notgetting the right advice at the
right time from the right person.
I think social media and all ofthese money conversations are a
(41:33):
fantastic starting point andthere's so many good books and
podcasts and things you can readthese days to understand all
the basics.
I don't think financial adviceis super accessible.
For a lot of people it's quiteexpensive, so there's so many
different ways you can accessthis information.
I would just make sure youreally trust your sources.
You know if you're going tomake decisions around,
(41:55):
particularly around investing inproperty or investing in shares
and making those really biglong-term decisions, then make
sure you're going to reallytrusted sources for it and also
start with smaller stakes.
You know, adding $20 a week toyour superannuation, that's a
small stakes investment but youknow, has the potential to
really help you build yourfinancial future.
(42:15):
So start with those smallersteps that help you get
comfortable with all of theseideas and concepts and then you
can start to build up to thebigger, more impactful decisions
.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Yeah, I mean that's such good advice and I think,
and such a good suggestionbecause quite often, you know,
we feel like there's this bigbarrier to entry.
But you can definitely startsmall, whether it's super,
whether it's savings, whateverit is.
And you know, I mean that leadsme to sort of this question.
You know, so often we listen tothese podcasts, we read this
information, we think, yep,that's all great, I'm going to
(42:45):
do something about it, but wetake absolutely no action.
So can you throw down thegauntlet today, you know, to
anyone listening what's onepiece of actionable advice that
you would give listeners whojust want to make some better
money decisions, but somethingthat they can literally hit.
You know, when this podcastfinishes, they can go and action
it.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yes, such a great question.
My advice is to set a moneymeeting for yourself once a
month, every month.
Do it around payday if you'repaid monthly or if you're paid
fortnightly.
Do it around one of yourpaydays.
Have a monthly meeting withyourself and do whatever it
takes to make it fun for you.
So that might mean you set alittle ritual where you light a
(43:24):
candle and you have a cup of teaand a chocolate, or you, if
it's after dark, you might havea wine and a cheese platter.
But set yourself up so that itbecomes something you actually
look forward to, rather than youknow something that's going to
drain your energy.
And at that monthly moneymeeting, just that's your chance
to check in on all your moneystuff.
So that's when you pay yourbills.
If you don't have themautomated, hopefully you
(43:46):
automate them all.
But it's where you check yourrenewals.
Your insurance renewal has comein, but it's, you know, 30%
more.
Okay, I'm going to have mymonthly money meeting and I'm
going to check it and I'm goingto compare and get a better deal
.
It's where you check and seeare you still using all the
streaming platforms you'repaying for?
Are you still going to the gymthat you're paying for.
You know it's your oneappointment, a couple of hours a
month, where you check in onall of this stuff and on all of
(44:15):
this stuff, and the gift thatthat gives you is 29 days and 22
hours for the rest of the monthto not think about your money,
because you know I've got thisappointment and that's where I'm
going to figure it all out andI just think doing that, taking
that action for yourself, isgoing to give you the gift of
just a little bit more peace ofmind around your money and you
can tackle things as you go.
So you might go this month'smoney meeting I'm going to get
my budget sorted.
Next month I'm going to look atmy super.
(44:37):
The following month I'm goingto compare home loans and see if
I can get a better deal there.
The following month I'm goingto transfer my credit card to a
new 0% interest card so I canpay it off.
You know, tackle a differentthing each month, but just make
sure you're regularly checkingin so that small things don't
become big things and you canget on top of your money leaks
(44:58):
and all of your bits and piecesso that you've just got peace of
mind around your money.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Okay, challenge thrown down everyone.
Book that monthly money meetingwith yourself and let Sarah and
I know in our DMs on Instagramwhether you have done that or
not and what a difference it hasmade for your life.
So, in addition to being incharge of editorial at
(45:23):
findercomau, you also have alittle side business there, and
you've been in business for along time.
What's your secret, or secrets,of running a successful
business?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Oh, I feel like that is a that could be not just a
podcast, but like a series onits own.
I think the biggest thing I'velearned I have I've I've been in
business for myself, as for anumber of years.
I've also run a restaurant fora number of years as a business
owner and the biggest thing Ilearned in all of it is to not
(45:57):
expect other people to have thesame approach that you do.
So whether they are employees,or they are suppliers or
business partners or people thatyou do work with.
You know whoever it is.
I used to just assume thateveryone I don't know not that
they all thought like me, butjust everyone was working to the
(46:17):
same code, the same code ofethics, the same way of doing
business, and you realize andyou work with and interact with
people from who just operate sodifferently that that
expectation really set me up tofail a lot, because it meant I
wouldn't get the results I wasexpecting, or I wouldn't get
paid when I was expecting, or Iwouldn't get the outcome I
thought I was going to get,because I would expect them to
(46:39):
do it the way I would do it.
You know, if I owe someonemoney, I'm going to pay it by
the due date.
That's just not how everyoneoperates.
So I then learned to adjust myexpectations so that I wasn't
constantly disappointed orfrustrated or chasing people up.
So I think that's been one ofmy biggest lessons was just
having more adjusting myexpectations, I guess, around
(47:03):
how different people do things.
I think the reason why that'sreally helpful to run a
successful business is, I thinkit then enabled me to realize,
you know, surrounding myselfwith people who are exactly like
me and who think like me is notactually what I need.
What I need is I'm very goodwith the money stuff.
I'm very organized, I'm verygood at that.
(47:24):
So what I actually need ispeople that can do A, b, c and D
, which are not my strengths, sothat the business can thrive.
So I think you know those twothings kind of go hand in hand
understanding that other peopleare going to work differently to
you and then using that toimprove the way your business
works, I think is the key tosuccess.
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
It's honestly.
We're over 150 episodes intothis podcast and that is the
first time that I've asked thatquestion, that I've got that
answer, so I find it completelyfascinating.
Sarah, thank you so much forbeing on the podcast today.
There is lots of good stuffthat we've covered.
I really hope that everyonelistening has been able to pick
(48:07):
one takeaway, something thatthey're going to be able to
action and really kind of get abetter understanding of their
finances.
What's the best way forlisteners to connect with you?
Speaker 2 (48:18):
I am active on Instagram.
I really culled back on everyother social media because I
found it was taking over my life, so I'm active on Instagram.
You can find me there at Sarah.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Megenson Money Amazing.
And finally, before we go, justone sneaky question.
If you could have a billboardwith anything on it, what would
it be?
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Oh my gosh, I don't know, as in a billboard, to try
and help people.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
You can have whatever you want on that billboard.
Sarah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
I have no idea that is such a great surprise
question because I'm genuinelyflummoxed.
I don't know it would besomething to do with money and
some sort of wake up call or,you know, call to arms to help
people.
You know, one thing that Ihaven't said so far that I just
think is so important is and thereason why I'm so passionate
(49:07):
about people connecting withmoney is, I think when you can
master your money and you havefull kind of understanding of it
, it opens so many doors for you.
It gives you so muchopportunity and freedom and
choice that you just don't havewhen you're stuck.
So many people are stuck inrelationships because of money.
They're stuck in jobs they hatebecause they don't believe
(49:27):
there's another alternative outthere for them.
So I think something on thatbillboard that helped people
connect with this idea that it'sactually not that hard.
You know, when I was younger, Iused to think that being rich
or understanding money wassomething for really smart
people and understanding thatit's actually not that hard.
And rich people and smartpeople are actually just like
(49:49):
you and me.
They just have access todifferent education that helps
them do these things.
Yeah.
Different tools yeah, yeah,something that helped people
realise that would be great.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
So how about?
Money equals success, moneyequals choice, money equals
freedom, money equalsopportunity.
Go be the author of your ownmoney story.
Yes, I love it.
I love it.
Thanks so much, Sarah.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Thanks for listening to the Secrets of Successful
Business podcast.
For more information on allthings business, head to
flossycomau and make sure youhit subscribe on the show so you
don't miss another new episode.
If you're enjoying the show,please give it a quick rating or
review, share it on yoursocials or with friends who
might enjoy it.
(50:35):
Catch you next time.
You're listening to the Secrets of Successful
Business podcast, your go-tosource for business tips, tricks
and proven strategies that willhelp you create a streamlined
and profitable business.
We chat to the best minds inbusiness about their journey,
how they started, what theylearned along the way.
How long are you going to givethis Going harder to get?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
more Focus on growing more with what you have.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
What they learned along the way.
How long are you going to givethis?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
What compromises are you going to make?
Just because you can do itdoesn't mean that you should do
it.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's really important to remember that it's a long
game and, of course, we'll askthem for their secret sauce for
creating a successful business.
If you're not failing, you'renot doing it right.
You should be struggling attimes.
That is part of the journey.
Join us as we take a sneak peekbehind the curtain, talk
solutions for those businesspain points working smarter, not
harder, mindset and thechallenges of fitting it all in
(00:57):
with the demands of today's busylifestyle.
If you're a business owner,side hustler or just starting
your business journey, thispodcast is for you.
Now here's your host, businesscoach and content creator,
justine McLean from FlossieCreative.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Hello and thanks for joining me on the podcast today.
In case we haven't met, I'mJustine, a small business owner
on a mission to uncover andshare the secrets of creating
and running a profitable,sustainable and successful
business.
I've been in business for over20 years now and I get to use
(01:35):
all that I've learned along theway to help other women in
business reduce the overwhelm,gain visibility around their
numbers, charge what they'reworth and make more money.
It's about designing a life youlove that fits into your
definition of success.
So, if I can help you createthe profitable business you
deserve, it's about designing alife you love that fits into
your definition of success.
So if I can help you create theprofitable business you deserve
, please reach out Now.
Without further ado, let's diveinto today's episode.
(01:57):
Hi everyone and welcome to thepodcast.
Today I have an extra specialguest with me.
Her name is Sarah Megenson.
Now, sarah is a personalfinance expert and she has over
20 years of experience by day.
She's the head of editorial forfindercomau, which is a
financial comparison sitededicated to helping everyone
(02:18):
make better money decisions, butshe's also a regular columnist
for Yahoo Finance and the MoneyMagazine and frequently appears
on TV, radio and in digital andprint media.
I'm sure you've seen hersomewhere.
In 2023 alone, her tips andadvice were featured over 1,200
times.
(02:38):
Now, what makes Sarah extraspecial to me is she also
happens to be the editor of mybrand new book Become a Business
Money Magnet Simple Ways toManage your Money and
Supercharge your Profits.
Sarah was an incredibleresource for me.
She was that sense check thatread through the book and made
sure it all made sense, so I'llbe forever grateful to Sarah for
(03:02):
her comments and her thoughtsand her edits around my book.
Now, today, sarah and I havedecided to join forces because
we're both really passionateabout helping women particularly
increase their financialliteracy, and one of the things
that we really want to put astop to is women everywhere
saying you know what?
I don't do money, because it'sa narrative that just isn't
(03:24):
serving us in 2024, and now isthe perfect time to change it.
Sarah's also going to share herinsights from her recent trips
to the UN Women's Summit in NewYork and Money 2020 in Bangkok,
so there's lots to talk about.
Let's get into it.
Hi, sarah, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I'm very happy to be here.
It's so lovely to have a chat.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
It's very exciting because we've been working
together quite closely over thelast few months bringing my book
to life.
I was just saying I couldn'thave done it without you.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Oh, I appreciate that , but all the magic was yours.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Thank, you For people who don't know you?
Can you start by telling usjust a bit about yourself, what
you do and, in particular, thepassion that we both share about
helping people make bettermoney decisions, and why that's
important to you?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yes, awesome, my name is Sarah Megenson.
Obviously I'm a personalfinance expert and I've been a
finance journalist for a coupleof decades, for probably 22 odd
years and over that time I'vehad the chance I was managing
editor of a couple of magazinesand for the last four years I've
been working at a comparisonsite called findercomau, where
I'm head of editorial and Imanage our team of writers and
(04:39):
stuff there.
So over that time I've had thechance to interview so many
different people in reallydiverse and interesting roles,
so that everyone from bank CEOsand tech kind of unicorn CEOs
through to politicians, deputyprime ministers, titans of
industry, like I've just.
I've interviewed all of thesereally smart, switched on people
(04:59):
and you start to pick up themesand ideas and understand what
makes people tick and you alsostart to understand that these
are the decision makers thatreally shape the world we live
in.
So that's why I find it sofascinating and why I've always
been, you know, so lucky to be ajournalist and get access to
these people, because I lovefiguring out, you know the
decisions they make and why theymake them and how they impact
(05:21):
us in the real world, and that'swhat I'm really passionate
about is trying to take thoseconcepts and those ideas and
make them really easy foreveryday people to understand
when it comes to the economy, tointerest rates, to cost of
living, to all of these thingsthat impact everyday Australians
.
You know, just recently, lastmonth or a little while ago, we
had the federal budget.
(05:42):
I can remember in my 20s noteven caring about the federal
budget, not even reallyunderstanding it, didn't
understand the purpose of it orwhy I should have any interest
in it whatsoever.
I love now being able to takesomething like that and try to
make it meaningful for peopleand try to help them understand
how these big things impact themand why their interest rates
are going up, why inflationmatters and why they should care
(06:03):
about this stuff.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, I think that's so true, isn't it?
Because we, you know, as peoplewho obviously you and I get the
finances, but as people whodon't get finances, all this
stuff is often a soundbite on TVand it depends on the slant of
the journalist or theorganisation that's sending the
message out, or theinterpretation of what we're
(06:25):
listening to a politician say,or the governor of the reserve
bank.
That will determine how we sortof, you know, take in that
information and react to it.
And I think it's just sohelpful to help people, you know
, to have people like you whocan put this stuff into plain
English, because for so often,for so many of us and I think
(06:46):
women in particular there's thisnarrative that we just don't do
money In school.
We kind of get taught just Ipresume it's the same as it was
when I went to school a load ofrubbish.
Frankly, that is not going tohelp you unless you're doing a
science degree at university.
It's not going to help you ineveryday life.
And so a lot of us willnaturally think, oh well, we
(07:11):
just can't, we can't deal withthe numbers and, you know, I
think when we think about 2024,that narrative just is no longer
serving us.
You know, why do you think weneed to really lean in and start
to change that narrative?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
It's so funny you say that.
Just this morning my daughtershe's in grade eight and she was
whinging about her algebrahomework and she's like, when am
I ever going to use algebra?
I said don't be surprised, butit depends what your career is.
When you get older she goesmaybe if I want to be an algebra
teacher.
But no, it is such a greatquestion and I think this idea
that I don't do money or I don'tdo numbers, it comes from a
(07:46):
lack of confidence usuallyaround how we interact with
money and numbers.
But I just think the stakes aretoo high to not engage with it
anymore.
The thing that we miss out onyou know just from the really
small things.
Again, when I was in my 20sdidn't understand super, didn't
care about it, didn't considerit my money.
But now I realize if in mytwenties I had just been able to
(08:07):
find $20 a week and put it inmy super fund, the impact that
could have had over time tobuild my wealth.
You know probably when youcrunch the numbers somewhere
between tens of thousands andhundreds of thousands of dollars
, more wealth I would have hadjust by engaging in that when I
was a little bit younger.
So I think, yeah, the stakesare too high to ignore your
money and no one is going tosave you.
(08:28):
You're going to have to figureit out eventually.
So you might as well try tofigure it out sooner than later.
And I think you know you'reexactly right.
They don't teach enough of thisstuff in schools and it is.
I think a lot of people, womenin particular can get
overwhelmed by all thecomplexities involved and just
start to tune out of when youhave someone on TV, like you
(08:52):
said, an economist, talkingabout an RBA rate rise and we've
seen a correction in interestrates by 25 basis points and
people tune out.
What does that even mean?
What is a correction to aneveryday person?
What is a correction in themarket or what is a basis point?
No one knows what a basis pointis.
We know what interest rates are.
(09:12):
So that's a really big kind ofpassion of mine is trying to
make sure that I take whateveris happening and then rework it
into being really simple.
You know, the last two yearsI've spoken about inflation more
than I care to ever talk aboutit again.
But you know I was talking tomy husband in the kitchen one
night two years into.
(09:33):
You know this cost of livingprocess.
And he goes what is inflationanyway?
And I said it's just thedifference between what
something cost last year andthis year.
And I was holding, I think, abottle of milk and I said the
bottle of milk last year cost $2and this year it costs $2.20.
That means that bottle of milkhas had inflation of 10%, like
it's just a change in price over12 months.
And he's like, oh, neverunderstood that, just understood
(09:55):
that it's being talked a lot onTV.
So that's really.
You know, a passion of mine isto just make these things as
easy to understand as possible.
Take all the mystery out of it,because when you understand it
you can then start to makedecisions that are really
empowered and that you know putyou in the driver's seat of your
experiences in life.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yeah, I totally agree with you.
I always say in business youknow, understand the story of
your numbers, so you can be theauthor of your story because you
know, rather than just leavingit to someone else.
And I think it's just asimportant in our personal life.
And I think when you don'tunderstand something, it's easy
to just sort of oh yeah, I don'tdo numbers or I don't
(10:36):
understand that.
And, as you say, a lot of itcomes down to confidence with
our finances and just makingthose better money decisions.
So what are some of the thingsthat we can do right now to help
us become more confident andmake some better money decisions
?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, I think the first thing is to get your head
out of the sand if you areavoiding it.
A lot of people avoid theirfinancial situation for a number
of reasons because they don'tfeel confident in managing it,
they don't understand it orthey're afraid what they'll
discover.
You know a lot of people areoverspending and they think I
just want to avoid that for aslong as possible.
So I think the first step is tojust actually create time for
(11:14):
it and get your head out of thesand and say, okay, I'm going to
actually attack this and I'mgoing to work out my finances.
And then the second thing Iwould say is make it fun.
And I know for a lot of peoplethey're thinking what, how do
you possibly make money fun?
But by that I mean turn it intosomething that doesn't make you
feel drained and anxious justat the thought of doing it.
So you might be a person I am aperson who loves spreadsheets,
(11:37):
so I like tracking all of mystuff in spreadsheets.
For some people, spreadsheetsare their idea of hell, so
everyone has a different systemthat will work for you.
It's just a matter of putting astructure in place.
Whatever that is, I lovetracking all of our money stuff
through spreadsheets, becausethen I can monitor it over time
and I can see the changes.
If that doesn't work for you,you could do something as simple
(11:57):
as a folder where you chuckyour receipts and your invoices
either a real folder in reallife or a folder on your
computer, just that it's all inone place, and then when it's
time to do your tax, you cangive that folder to your
accountant.
You know, you've just got astructure there to capture it.
I also think automating yourmoney is absolutely the biggest
(12:17):
time saver and also the biggestmental energy clarifier.
I guess when people areconstantly thinking about their
bills, it's very draining.
So having your bills automatedand set up so that you have, you
know, one account that is yourbills account, you always make
sure you've got enough money inthat account so you're not
getting overdrawn fees.
But too many people waste toomuch money on late fees and
(12:41):
those types of penalties justbecause they're constantly
scrambling to pay their bills.
So I think automating is areally good way to start as well
.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Yeah, I agree, and you know, when you talk about
some of the reasons that peopleyou know don't look at their
numbers that in the kind of thepile of I'm imagining the pile
of unopened credit card billsand that sort of thing sitting
on the bench it often means thatwe end up making some big
mistakes with our money.
(13:08):
What are the things that you'venoticed over the years that
people are continually makingmistakes with in terms of their
finances, and how can they avoidthose mistakes?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Such a great question .
The really big one in the lastfew years is buy now, pay later.
It has just absolutely explodedand it just makes spending
money you don't have really easy.
The very low barrier to entrythere, so you can shop with
money you don't have and, youknow, pay it off over six weeks.
But there was a study done by auniversity not last year, I
(13:42):
think the year before, a coupleof years ago and they calculated
the true cost of buy now, paylater.
Because they advertisethemselves as no interest, which
is true, but you do get a lotof fees if you don't pay it back
in time.
They worked out an averagepurchase.
I think it was a $50 purchase.
If you didn't pay it back ontime, you could have an
(14:03):
effective interest rate of 267%.
Wow, because the fees theydon't seem much, but the fees
are $8 here, $10 there and theybuild up and up and up.
So if you've got a $50 purchaseand you pay a $10 fee in it
five times, you end up payingdouble for that item and I just
think buy now, pay later.
Really the only way that shouldbe used is if you are buying
(14:27):
something that you can affordand you have the money to pay
for it, but you just want to,for cashflow reasons, spread
that payment out.
So I've used buy now, pay later.
I have some beautiful shelvesbehind me that I bought from
Ikea for $1,500.
And I used Buy Now, pay Laterto buy that because I spread
that $1,500 out over six weeks,paid it on my credit card anyway
(14:48):
, so it was automatically takenout of my credit card, so I
didn't risk at all having a latepayment fee or any type of fee
at all, so I paid nothing for it, but it just meant that that
cost got spread out over twomonths of my credit card instead
of one month.
That, to me, is the only goodtime to use buy now, pay later.
Every other use of it just hasthe potential to get you in
(15:11):
financial trouble.
And you can have multipleaccounts going so you could have
four different brands going andhave outstanding buy now, pay
later arrangements with each ofthem.
And very quickly you're introuble because you've got to
find $700 this pay to keep up todate on all of them.
And then you're.
We actually just at Finder justthis week did some research and
(15:32):
found that people are skippingother things, that they're
skipping out on making personalloan repayments, or some people
are actually skipping meals tobe able to have that money to
put towards their buy now, paylater.
So I think that's a really.
It's really correlated with therise in online shopping and
impulse shopping.
The other stat we just found atFinder recently is that we
(15:54):
spend an average of $44 a weekimpulse shopping and that's you
know.
We've all done that.
Before you're scrolling onsocial media, there's an ad for
something.
Within the space of threeclicks, boop, boop, boop, it's
in your cart, you've got it, thepackage is coming.
It's a quick little dopaminehit.
But we're not thinking thingsthrough the way we would and
have in the past.
Now my mom, when she wasshopping 30 years ago, she was
(16:15):
at a shop using cash You'rereally mindful about.
Do I need this item?
And if my mom was standing atthe register and she's got $50
and knows she needs to buy usdinner that night, then well,
this item's going back.
I'm not going to buy it.
But these days we can just veryquickly, I can flick that off
to buy now, pay later, and Idon't actually even have to
spend anything on it now and Istill use the money I had set
(16:38):
aside for dinner tonight I canstill use.
So it encourages us to be lessmindful about our money and our
spending.
So I am a really big fan ofminimizing buy now, pay later in
your life if you can, because Ijust don't think it sets you up
for any positive habits withyour budget.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I think that's such good advice, and quite often you
know we attach our credit cardto that, so then our credit
card's blowing out as well.
And I think credit card debt,you know itself, is sometimes
hard to.
You know, once that horse isbolted and you can't, or if you
can't, make the minimum payment,it's really hard to get that
(17:15):
back under control.
So it just is adding fuel tothe fire, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the only reason I link mycredit card to my Afterpay was
to make sure I never had a fee,so it was always coming off my
Afterpay.
But I actually I joined acouple of different Buy Now, pay
Later platforms just as anexperiment.
I wasn't keen, I'm not a bigfan of them overall myself, but
I joined them as an experiment.
I wasn't keen, I'm not a bigfan of them overall myself, but
(17:41):
I joined them as an experimentto see what impact it would have
on my credit file.
So I did about six months ofspending on it.
Never had any fees or charges,but I did six months of spending
and changed none of my otherhabits.
You know I still had creditcards and everything else stayed
the same largely and my creditnumber score took a real dip.
(18:04):
It went from around I startedat around 859 and it got down to
a low of, I think, 777.
Wow, that was the only thingI'd done differently.
I did it for six months andthen I went okay, this
experiment is now impacting me.
And then I haven't done anytransactions this year and my
(18:25):
credit score is starting to comeback up.
I'm back in the 800s again.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
And just for anyone listening who isn't sure what a
credit score is and how that canhave an impact, can you just
explain that?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yes, great.
So a credit score is kind ofyour resume for credit providers
like the bank.
So it tracks your habits withmoney.
So if you are behind on anybills, it tracks your they call
it positive credit reporting now.
So if you're really good atpaying your bills on time, that
will be recorded on your creditscore.
If you fall behind quiteregularly, if you don't pay off
(18:57):
debts, if you've got a number ofdifferent debts, that can all
impact your credit score.
And the higher your creditscore is, the greater your
chance of getting a loan,whether it's a home loan or a
car loan.
So you really ideally want yourcredit score in good shape.
And the really the fascinatingthing there is that Buy Now, pay
Later platforms.
They sell themselves based onthe fact that you don't need to
(19:18):
have your credit score checkedto use them.
So when you apply for a creditcard, they're going to check
your credit score before theygive it to you.
It's just a part of responsiblelending Buy now, pay later, do
not have to do a credit scorecheck for you, and they kind of
sell themselves based on that,because it makes it very easy
for you to get credit with them,and that's why I did this
experiment.
I wanted to see does itactually?
You know you might not need tocheck my score to provide me
(19:40):
with credit, but does itactually impact my score if I
use it a lot?
So there's just last year.
There's been a raft of newlegislations that have been
proposed around buy now, paylater, because it's very
unregulated at the moment and Ithink you know a bit more
regulation there will help makeit easier for consumers to not
get too caught up in it all.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
And just to be clear on that, you know the impact
that you felt was as someone whowas using Buy Now, Pay Later
and paying it off on time.
Yes, and it still impacted yourscore.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
So it's just something.
I must say.
It was an.
It's very anecdotal, you know,like I didn't, I can't 100% say
that caused it, but I didn'tchange anything else.
My home loan didn't change.
I cancelled a credit card andapplied for a different credit
card in that time, but that'ssomething I do all the time.
Anyway, I changed my creditcards every 12 months, so I
(20:30):
didn't change any other habits.
So it's an anecdotal, it's notset in stone, but to me it's
pretty compelling evidence thatthey're not doing positive
things for your financialsituation.
And these days banks, when theyare assessing your applications,
they'll look at your creditscore.
But they also look at you knowit's a range of things.
(20:51):
They look at your income, yourjob history and all of that
stuff.
But they will now look at yourbank statements to see what kind
of relationship you have withspending.
And if they see a lot of buynow, pay later, and a lot of
Uber Eats and a lot of thosereally convenient expenses, that
can actually make it harder foryou to get a loan, because the
banks can view that as being alittle bit reckless and a little
(21:12):
bit uncontrolled orundisciplined in your spending.
So those types of habits youreally want to get in control.
If you are hoping to, you know,borrow money to buy a big
ticket item like a house.
You want to try and get thosehabits in your rearview mirror.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
And banks that's a whole otherpodcast episode.
Let's not even get startedthere Now.
You recently attended a coupleof events.
The UN Women's Summit in NewYork was one of them.
What were some of the impactfullessons or insights that you
gained from that experience?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Ah, yes, that was incredible.
So I went in March to New YorkCity for the United Nations
Commission for the Status ofWomen.
So it's an annual event wherearound 6,000 global kind of
leaders in women's rights cometogether.
So it was just absolutelymind-blowing and life-changing
to be in that space with thoseincredible people, and the
(22:06):
problems to solve were sodiverse.
You know you had people fromevery country, so there were
some some people who they'rerepresenting their, their
countries, where you knowthere's a huge amount of sexual
violence and things againstwomen.
So those women problems tosolve for them are deeply rooted
in safety and giving themaccess to education so that they
can get themselves out of thosesituations.
(22:28):
The the really powerful thingto me was just seeing how many
women are so actively involvedin the solution like they.
There was so many examples ofparticularly young women, like
teenage women and women in theirearly twenties, who are so just
driven and motivated to change,just to change their situation,
(22:50):
to change their opportunities.
In a number of countries, likethroughout Asia and India, there
are so many microfinance kindof platforms being launched and
there was one woman she wasamazing who was are so many
microfinance kind of platformsbeing launched and there was one
woman she was amazing who wastalking about a microfinance
business.
She tried to get off the groundand the banks didn't want to
know her because she wasn't male.
And she finally got somebacking for it and it was a
(23:11):
really small scale, like thetalking cents.
It was a way of rounding upcents to move, you know, one or
two cents into these accountsfor women and you know, one of
the men she was talking to atthe bank was like that's just
going to make no impact, we'renot interested.
And the way, you know, she justhad so much conviction and
drive to just push forward withit and it was such a reminder to
(23:34):
me that, even though it mightseem really, really small, when
you bring all of those, bring anumber of people behind it, you
can actually make a really bigimpact.
So it was incredible and I gotto work to got to know the women
in Australia behind a groupcalled Real Futures and they're
an indigenous group in WesternSydney who are helping women
(23:55):
kind of rebuild and get into theworkforce and that was amazing.
They do everything from, youknow, helping them do
run-throughs for interviews andwhat's that say uniforms, not
uniforms like what to wear to ajob interview and how to budget
and all of that type of thing.
It's really like hands-onpractical tips and advice to
help women thrive.
(24:16):
So it was just amazing to spenda week there.
And to spend a week with all ofthese incredible women and
advocates who are just workingday in, day out to advance the
progress of women around theworld was absolutely incredible.
It definitely has left alasting impact.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
And then, of course, there was Money 2020 in Bangkok,
where you mentioned to me thatyou learned about AI, the impact
of AI.
You know scams, deep fakes,scamming in particular.
I did a podcast episode on thisjust last week.
It feels like, you know, it's amatter of if we're going to get
scammed oh sorry, when we'regoing to get scammed, not if for
(24:58):
most of us.
I think Australians have lost$73 million in the first three
months of this year by beingscammed, so that's about an
average of 15 grand a person.
What are some things we can doto protect ourselves from these
increasingly sophisticated scams?
What did you learn out ofBangkok 2020?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Oh gosh, that conference was amazing and it is
so like wild that you use thatstatement, because I had written
in my notes preparing for todaythat scamming is a matter of
when, not if, we will all getdone by it.
It's just a matter of to whatdegree and how, what safeguards
you have in place.
Money 2020 is held in Bangkok.
It's an annual conference whereall of the biggest brands and
names and changemakers andtechnology in money come
(25:48):
together.
One of the things we weretalking about there is how much
scam technology has evolved andis evolving.
So I was speaking to one guy.
He was the head of AI and fraudfor a particular money exchange
platform and he said theproblems he was solving three
months ago are already out ofdate.
Like every day, he's justfacing new ways that people and
(26:10):
he's stress testing his systemevery day trying to find new
ways to hack his own system sothat he can get to those issues
before a real hacker does right.
And one of the big emergingareas that is going to be really
hard for us all is arounddeepfake technology.
Ah, yeah, you know where thevideos can actually take shape
(26:30):
of someone else or voices.
You know we can imitate yourchild's voice on the phone and
say hey, mum, I'm in trouble, Ineed you to send me $2,000
immediately.
And at the conference theyshared the story of one man in
Hong Kong who was in a boardmeeting with his entire board.
A video call on Zoom and hisCEO asked him to transfer $25
(26:51):
million and he did on the calland hung up from the call and
realized it was all deepfakes.
Everyone was a bad actor inthat room.
None of his actual board was inthat meeting and it had been a
month's long kind of process.
Somehow these deepfakes hadinfiltrated his company and I
don't know what ended uphappening, whether they got the
money back, but I think that'sthe real dramatic end of the
(27:14):
scale.
But you know these things arehappening to to everyday
Australians and I think you knowthe figures you quoted before
are really underreported, likeit's billions, because so many
people don't want to admit or,you know, share that they've had
this happen.
It can feel so shameful and soembarrassing to admit that
(27:36):
you've fallen for it, um, butthere's absolutely nothing to be
ashamed about.
It happens to everyone.
I've been scammed twice in thelast year.
One one was somehow someone gotaccess to my credit card and my
bank was amazing because theyactually called us in the middle
of the night and said hey, areyou trying to use your card in
this place?
(27:56):
No, turned out, someone in NewYork had somehow you know
scammed our card and bought$3,000 worth of computer
equipment in New York.
So they could see that we wereon the Gold Coast and it wasn't
us.
And the bank employee said itwas likely that it was just
someone literally spinningnumbers and just lucked on our
number, got the combinationright of our numbers with the
(28:16):
expiry dates and everything.
They have the technology tojust spin millions of options
per second right.
So that was probably just badluck and my bank intercepted it
and refunded it immediately.
So that was really luckybecause that was $3,000.
The other time it happened wasmy own fault.
I got a text that is now verywidespread but I hadn't heard
(28:37):
about it at the past and it wasfrom, apparently from linked
about my toll road.
I very rarely drive on a tollroad and I just happened to get
this text message the day afterI had used a toll road for the
first time in probably two yearsand my account had actually
been suspended a few monthsearlier because it had fallen
(28:57):
behind, there had been an issuewith it, I think, my credit card
had lapsed, and so when I gotthe text message from them, it
very much made sense to me.
I was like, yes, I used a tollroad yesterday and a few months
ago I did receive an emailsaying that my account was
suspended and I had to fix it.
So it made a lot of sense to methat it wouldn't have worked.
And they said put your creditcard details in here to pay your
toll.
(29:17):
I did that and it was veryearly in the morning, it was
about six o'clock in the morning, I was in bed and I just got
the text and I did it.
I put my own credit carddetails in and that was my big
mistake.
Could have been reallyexpensive for me, because as
soon as you engage and you takeaction, you are now responsible
for whatever happens next.
(29:38):
So I was really lucky that assoon as I did it, I pressed pay
and then another alert came upfrom the greedy scammers saying
payment failed, enter your bankdetails here.
And that's when I realized, ohwhoops, this is not legitimate
at all and I immediately justgot out of that window, called
my bank and canceled my card.
So I canceled it before theycould do any damage.
(29:59):
Had they not been greedy andhad just said, yes, your payment
of your $3.50 toll has beenprocessed, I would have assumed
that I had just done somethingreally legitimate and I would
have gone about my day and itprobably would have been days,
if not weeks, until I receivedmy bank statement and saw all of
the charges that they'd put andby them it would have been too
late and it was my fault becauseI had put my details in, I had
(30:23):
engaged with it.
So I'm so grateful they werereally greedy and taught me that
it's happening constantly.
My mum got one just yesterdaywhere she called me, a bit
panicked because she got amessage from an apparent
insurance group saying thatshe'd been in a car accident two
years ago and they were chasingher out for $3,000 and there
was a payment link and therewere so many red flags in it.
(30:46):
But my mom is 73 and not supercomputer and tech literate, so
to her it was very legitimate.
It said, calling from you know,the Australian insurance agency
.
I said there's no such thing asthe Australian insurance agency
.
So there's things you can do tocheck right, but when you're
panicked?
My mom got panicked because shesaid oh well, I actually was in
(31:07):
a fender bender a few years agoand maybe this is legit.
And I said well, there's a fewthings you can do to check.
As soon as she sent it to me, Iknew it was fake.
The main reason I knew it wasfake is because they had a
payment link there immediately.
Now, if you actually did havesomeone reach out after many
years and say you've got thissurprise payment, there would be
a conversation.
They wouldn't send you a linkand say pay here.
(31:29):
There would be an advice of youowe this and here's your
invoice and you've got 30 daysto pay.
You know, government agenciesare usually quite reasonable.
Okay, I'll take that back.
Their payment options areusually quite reasonable and
they will give you, you know,not only a 30-day payment window
, but here are your options Ifyou cannot make this payment.
(31:50):
Here is the payment plan option.
Here is our hardship line.
You know there's actuallylegislation that guides all of
that.
So the fact that they would thisyou know scammer was just
saying click here and pay it wasto me a massive red flag.
But you know, I can see howconvincing.
It is for her, and I am apersonal finance expert.
I'm in this stuff every day.
(32:12):
I am on top of all the scamwatch data and I'm learning
about it all every day and Istill get scammed.
So I think no one is safe fromthis.
It's really difficult and thebest thing you can do is, if you
get any type of communication,email, text or anything that you
receive that you're notexpecting, is to just pause and
(32:35):
take a step back from it andspeak to someone else, because
they will be a sense check foryou, because what these scammers
rely on is that you are verystressed and they'll always put
a timeframe around it, likethere'll be an urgency to it,
because they want to get you offyour even footing so that you
will make a silly decision.
So take a step back, take adeep breath and understand that,
(32:57):
even if this is legit, youdon't have to deal with it this
second.
You can give yourself 24 hoursto figure it out.
So speak to someone you trustand go.
Hey, like my mum did, shereached out to me after a full
day of fretting.
She reached out to me and Ilooked at it and said,
absolutely rubbish, ignore it.
So I think that's the.
This is an absolute like find abuddy situation to try and look
(33:18):
at your next steps.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, because I think life, the pace of life, is so
quick.
Now I think it's.
You know, you see something youthink, look, I'm going to
forget if I don't action this.
Now click, and yeah, I get allthose sort of text messages all
the time and I've always beenthat person to kind of delete,
delete, delete.
But you know, today I got anemail asking me to join the
(33:41):
Illuminati and I just had toclick here.
Lord knows what scam wasinvolved in that.
But you're right, they arereally sophisticated and I think
the best way to safeguard yourpersonal and your financial
information is to, as you say,have that buddy sense.
Check it, do a Google search,see if the phone number matches
(34:02):
up, and essentially, never justbelieve someone when they ring
you up over the phone and payover the phone.
Essentially never just believesomeone when they ring you up
over the phone and pay over thephone.
You can ask for an invoice tobe sent or you can say I'll call
you back and Google the number.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I think that's such a great point.
Just question it and whoever itis, like my mom yesterday, the
first step I would take if thatwas me is I would Google it.
Who is this agency?
And I would have immediatelyrealized they don't exist.
Now, sometimes scammers willcreate these fake websites and
things, but there are ways tosense check.
(34:35):
You know, if you're getting acorrespondence from your bank,
then just call them back, sayokay, I just want to make sure
this is legit.
I'm going to call my bank backand call, hang up the call and
dial the numbers again.
Don't just recall the numberthat called you, because they
can use technology to face that.
It is really difficult nowbecause banks are putting a bit
(34:56):
more of an onus on people andthe consumer to take your own
steps to protect yourself, butthey are also starting to do
things.
The big banks in particular arefacing a lot of pressure to
help people navigate this stuff.
So I've noticed in all of mybanking platforms now, because I
spread partly for scamprotection I spread my accounts
across a number of differentbanks.
(35:17):
So I have an everyday bank, Ihave my mortgage with a
different bank and I have acredit card with two different
banks, so they're all veryspread out, partly because I'm
loyal to me and I'm not loyal toa single brand and partly
because I like to have all of mystuff spread out so that if I
do ever get scammed I don't haveall my eggs in one basket.
And every time I make atransfer it pops up with an
alert in my banks now saying doyou know this person?
(35:38):
Are you sure you want to sendthis money?
This stuff is just happening.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
So constantly now.
Yeah, I think that's such goodadvice.
And I think the other thing is,you know, increasing financial
literacy as you know, justgetting our head out of the sand
, forgetting that I don't donumbers, narrative and
increasing that awareness is sovital.
How do you see, you know therole of media improving that, or
(36:02):
helping to improve financialliteracy and awareness, because
you're in this every day.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Yes, and a really fascinating stat about it I find
fascinating anyway is that 75%of the media spokespeople on TV
talking about this stuff are men.
Only 25% are women, which iswhy it's something I'm so
passionate about getting thatfemale perspective out there and
making sure that women arecounting themselves into these
(36:27):
discussions, because we knowthat, like, women tend to tune
out a bit if it's a man talking,if you've got particularly a
man talking about the economyand using language that is not
very accessible.
So if you have a man sittingthere going yes, well, the
economy is moving at a stagnantpace and we've got a two-speed
economy and we need a 60 basispoint correction, like everyone
(36:49):
zones out of that, unless you'rea very specific subset women,
though we respond to just likeaccessibility.
So that's that's why I thinkmedia has a huge role to play
here, and I'm really excitedthat I get the opportunity to
help with that.
I also think a huge part of thepuzzle here is social media,
which is both an opportunity anda potential risk, because
(37:13):
social media has zero barrier toentry, so anyone can get on
social media and give advice,but you know 90% of it is not
accurate.
So I think it's reallyimportant that you kind of just
qualify what you hear and seeand ask yourself if it makes
sense, because there's I see somuch questionable stuff on my
(37:36):
feed about investing or money.
You know even just all sorts ofdifferent strategies.
Some of it is really useful andit's a good thought starter,
but you know there are differentstrategies.
Some of it is really useful andit's a good thought starter,
but you know there are differentstrategies for different people
and there's a reason whyfinancial advisors need to do so
much training and that you knowthe industry is so regulated
(37:56):
because they're giving youadvice about your finances that
impact your entire future.
So you know you don't want tobe taking advice from any old
person From someone in alike-minded bitches or whatever
that podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Facebook platform.
So many people ask forfinancial advice in there.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, and you know it's great.
I really am a big fan of havingthese conversations.
You should absolutely have moreof these conversations.
I love people talking about howmuch they earn.
I had a friend who got a newjob and she was talking to her
friends about it and she sharedhow much the new salary was.
And her friend said you shouldask for a signing bonus.
And she said what?
And the friend said why don'tyou ask for one?
(38:39):
You've got nothing to lose.
So she went back and said okay,yeah, I'm happy with that
salary, but I'd like a $10,000signing bonus.
And they said yes, and that'sthe power to me of making sure
we're all talking to each otherthe way men do.
Men have had theseconversations for millennia.
(38:59):
It's time for us to make moneypart of our daily conversations
and uplift each other, show eachother what's possible there.
But you know, conversationswith girlfriends and social
communities is one thing, butactually getting advice about
what to do with your money, youshould turn to the experts for
that, and I myself I you know.
I consider myself a personalfinance expert, but I'm not a
financial advisor.
I have a couple of ASICrecognized accreditations and
I've got a couple of decades ofexperience, but I'm not a
(39:21):
qualified advisor, so I'm reallymindful that I don't give
people personalized advice.
I'm licensed through Finder togive general advice advice that
is general in nature.
But you know, I often getemails from people through the
website and that was veryspecific.
You know, I've got my loan is Xamount of dollars and I'm 62
(39:41):
and I plan to retire in sixyears and where should I put my
money?
And I will always politelyreply and say here's the details
of a great financial advisorthat can help you with that.
Here's some guides on ourwebsite that can help you
understand it a bit better.
But you know these are.
We're talking about yourfinancial future and your
retirement and there's, like Isaid at the beginning, the
stakes are just so high here, soyou want to make sure that
(40:04):
you're getting that advice ofsomeone really trustworthy.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think the thing is you're
right, you know, I mean I'm aregistered BAS agent.
We have a very regulatedindustry.
So within that sort offinancial services, you've got
financial advisors, accountantsand BAS agents in their three
different categories and we allhave to have very specific
(40:27):
education and then go on andhave specific, you know,
training in a certain area to beable to give that advice.
So your accountant just so youknow people understand might not
necessarily be able to givefinancial advisory advice
because they're actually notlicensed to do it.
So, yeah, it's really important.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
I have seen that blow up spectacularly where?
Because I used to be the editorof a property investing
magazine and you know I canremember a story once of an
investor whose accountant gavethem really poor advice about
their how to structure theirinvestment, because they were
trying to help them kind of makethe most of negative gearing
but it didn't have a long-termview, it was very much
(41:10):
structured for now and then theyeventually went to a financial
advisor who just was like you've, basically you've got it in the
wrong structure and the wrongname and when you sell it you're
going to make you know it wasjust all poorly done and that's
the risk of, you know, notgetting the right advice at the
right time from the right person.
I think social media and all ofthese money conversations are a
(41:33):
fantastic starting point andthere's so many good books and
podcasts and things you can readthese days to understand all
the basics.
I don't think financial adviceis super accessible.
For a lot of people it's quiteexpensive, so there's so many
different ways you can accessthis information.
I would just make sure youreally trust your sources.
You know if you're going tomake decisions around,
(41:55):
particularly around investing inproperty or investing in shares
and making those really biglong-term decisions, then make
sure you're going to reallytrusted sources for it and also
start with smaller stakes.
You know, adding $20 a week toyour superannuation, that's a
small stakes investment but youknow, has the potential to
really help you build yourfinancial future.
(42:15):
So start with those smallersteps that help you get
comfortable with all of theseideas and concepts and then you
can start to build up to thebigger, more impactful decisions
.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
Yeah, I mean that's such good advice and I think,
and such a good suggestionbecause quite often, you know,
we feel like there's this bigbarrier to entry.
But you can definitely startsmall, whether it's super,
whether it's savings, whateverit is.
And you know, I mean that leadsme to sort of this question.
You know, so often we listen tothese podcasts, we read this
information, we think, yep,that's all great, I'm going to
(42:45):
do something about it, but wetake absolutely no action.
So can you throw down thegauntlet today, you know, to
anyone listening what's onepiece of actionable advice that
you would give listeners whojust want to make some better
money decisions, but somethingthat they can literally hit.
You know, when this podcastfinishes, they can go and action
it.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yes, such a great question.
My advice is to set a moneymeeting for yourself once a
month, every month.
Do it around payday if you'repaid monthly or if you're paid
fortnightly.
Do it around one of yourpaydays.
Have a monthly meeting withyourself and do whatever it
takes to make it fun for you.
So that might mean you set alittle ritual where you light a
(43:24):
candle and you have a cup of teaand a chocolate, or you, if
it's after dark, you might havea wine and a cheese platter.
But set yourself up so that itbecomes something you actually
look forward to, rather than youknow something that's going to
drain your energy.
And at that monthly moneymeeting, just that's your chance
to check in on all your moneystuff.
So that's when you pay yourbills.
If you don't have themautomated, hopefully you
(43:46):
automate them all.
But it's where you check yourrenewals.
Your insurance renewal has comein, but it's, you know, 30%
more.
Okay, I'm going to have mymonthly money meeting and I'm
going to check it and I'm goingto compare and get a better deal
.
It's where you check and seeare you still using all the
streaming platforms you'repaying for?
Are you still going to the gymthat you're paying for.
You know it's your oneappointment, a couple of hours a
month, where you check in onall of this stuff and on all of
(44:15):
this stuff, and the gift thatthat gives you is 29 days and 22
hours for the rest of the monthto not think about your money,
because you know I've got thisappointment and that's where I'm
going to figure it all out andI just think doing that, taking
that action for yourself, isgoing to give you the gift of
just a little bit more peace ofmind around your money and you
can tackle things as you go.
So you might go this month'smoney meeting I'm going to get
my budget sorted.
Next month I'm going to look atmy super.
(44:37):
The following month I'm goingto compare home loans and see if
I can get a better deal there.
The following month I'm goingto transfer my credit card to a
new 0% interest card so I canpay it off.
You know, tackle a differentthing each month, but just make
sure you're regularly checkingin so that small things don't
become big things and you canget on top of your money leaks
(44:58):
and all of your bits and piecesso that you've just got peace of
mind around your money.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Okay, challenge thrown down everyone.
Book that monthly money meetingwith yourself and let Sarah and
I know in our DMs on Instagramwhether you have done that or
not and what a difference it hasmade for your life.
So, in addition to being incharge of editorial at
(45:23):
findercomau, you also have alittle side business there, and
you've been in business for along time.
What's your secret, or secrets,of running a successful
business?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Oh, I feel like that is a that could be not just a
podcast, but like a series onits own.
I think the biggest thing I'velearned I have I've I've been in
business for myself, as for anumber of years.
I've also run a restaurant fora number of years as a business
owner and the biggest thing Ilearned in all of it is to not
(45:57):
expect other people to have thesame approach that you do.
So whether they are employees,or they are suppliers or
business partners or people thatyou do work with.
You know whoever it is.
I used to just assume thateveryone I don't know not that
they all thought like me, butjust everyone was working to the
(46:17):
same code, the same code ofethics, the same way of doing
business, and you realize andyou work with and interact with
people from who just operate sodifferently that that
expectation really set me up tofail a lot, because it meant I
wouldn't get the results I wasexpecting, or I wouldn't get
paid when I was expecting, or Iwouldn't get the outcome I
thought I was going to get,because I would expect them to
(46:39):
do it the way I would do it.
You know, if I owe someonemoney, I'm going to pay it by
the due date.
That's just not how everyoneoperates.
So I then learned to adjust myexpectations so that I wasn't
constantly disappointed orfrustrated or chasing people up.
So I think that's been one ofmy biggest lessons was just
having more adjusting myexpectations, I guess, around
(47:03):
how different people do things.
I think the reason why that'sreally helpful to run a
successful business is, I thinkit then enabled me to realize,
you know, surrounding myselfwith people who are exactly like
me and who think like me is notactually what I need.
What I need is I'm very goodwith the money stuff.
I'm very organized, I'm verygood at that.
(47:24):
So what I actually need ispeople that can do A, b, c and D
, which are not my strengths, sothat the business can thrive.
So I think you know those twothings kind of go hand in hand
understanding that other peopleare going to work differently to
you and then using that toimprove the way your business
works, I think is the key tosuccess.
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
It's honestly.
We're over 150 episodes intothis podcast and that is the
first time that I've asked thatquestion, that I've got that
answer, so I find it completelyfascinating.
Sarah, thank you so much forbeing on the podcast today.
There is lots of good stuffthat we've covered.
I really hope that everyonelistening has been able to pick
(48:07):
one takeaway, something thatthey're going to be able to
action and really kind of get abetter understanding of their
finances.
What's the best way forlisteners to connect with you?
Speaker 2 (48:18):
I am active on Instagram.
I really culled back on everyother social media because I
found it was taking over my life, so I'm active on Instagram.
You can find me there at Sarah.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Megenson Money Amazing.
And finally, before we go, justone sneaky question.
If you could have a billboardwith anything on it, what would
it be?
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Oh my gosh, I don't know, as in a billboard, to try
and help people.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
You can have whatever you want on that billboard.
Sarah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
I have no idea that is such a great surprise
question because I'm genuinelyflummoxed.
I don't know it would besomething to do with money and
some sort of wake up call or,you know, call to arms to help
people.
You know, one thing that Ihaven't said so far that I just
think is so important is and thereason why I'm so passionate
(49:07):
about people connecting withmoney is, I think when you can
master your money and you havefull kind of understanding of it
, it opens so many doors for you.
It gives you so muchopportunity and freedom and
choice that you just don't havewhen you're stuck.
So many people are stuck inrelationships because of money.
They're stuck in jobs they hatebecause they don't believe
(49:27):
there's another alternative outthere for them.
So I think something on thatbillboard that helped people
connect with this idea that it'sactually not that hard.
You know, when I was younger, Iused to think that being rich
or understanding money wassomething for really smart
people and understanding thatit's actually not that hard.
And rich people and smartpeople are actually just like
(49:49):
you and me.
They just have access todifferent education that helps
them do these things.
Yeah.
Different tools yeah, yeah,something that helped people
realise that would be great.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
So how about?
Money equals success, moneyequals choice, money equals
freedom, money equalsopportunity.
Go be the author of your ownmoney story.
Yes, I love it.
I love it.
Thanks so much, Sarah.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Thanks for listening to the Secrets of Successful
Business podcast.
For more information on allthings business, head to
flossycomau and make sure youhit subscribe on the show so you
don't miss another new episode.
If you're enjoying the show,please give it a quick rating or
review, share it on yoursocials or with friends who
might enjoy it.
(50:35):
Catch you next time.
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