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In this compelling episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero sits down with Doug O’Connell, a former Green Beret turned accomplished criminal defense attorney, to explore the uncommon path of blending military service with a high-impact civilian career.
Doug shares how his experiences in Special Forces—operating in high-stakes, unpredictable environments—directly influence how he defends clients in the courtroom. From unconventional warfare to legal strategy, Doug's story is one of purpose, adaptability, and unwavering service.
This episode unpacks the challenges of transitioning between two demanding professions, the importance of identity beyond the uniform, and the need for veterans to prioritize self-care while continuing to lead and give back. Whether you're a service member, veteran, or someone navigating dual-purpose careers, this conversation offers powerful insight on integrity, mission-focus, and the next chapter of service.
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Chapters
00:00 From Military to Law: Doug's Journey
10:48 Balancing Dual Careers: Green Beret and Lawyer
19:04 The Unconventional Lawyer: Military Skills in Court
25:08 Navigating Identity After Service
30:39 Self-Care and Recharging: Doug's Approach
39:10 Giving Back: The Importance of Service
Instagram: @securityhalt
Tik Tok: @security.halt.pod
LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
Connect with Doug on social media and check out his Website too!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/o-connell-west-pllc/
Website: https://oconnellwest.com/doug-oconnell/
Email: doug@oconnelwest.com
News Article Doug mentioned:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Security Odd Podcast.
Let's go the only podcastthat's purpose-built from the
ground up to support you Notjust you, but the wider audience
, everybody.
Authentic, impactful andinsightful conversations that
serve a purpose to help you.
And the quality has gone up.
It's decent and it's hosted byme, danny Caballero.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Doug O'Connell how's it going?
Good man, thanks for having meon.
Absolutely.
Man, you've got a career that Iam constantly telling people to
look into, because once you getout of the military, you got to
dream, you got to swing for thefences, you got to try to do
something remarkable.
Today, my man, I want to diveinto your military history, your
(00:47):
background and what you'redoing today, sure.
So where does it all start forDoug?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Well, I guess you know, I went to college because
that's what I was expected to doin my family.
I was the youngest of six kidsand did okay in college and
learned about ROTC and thatsounded like a good idea because
I knew I didn't want to go geta job.
But I figured I'd go to thearmy for a while and maybe get
(01:18):
that out of my system.
Sure enough, I did.
That was the late 80s, rightbefore the first downsizing at
the end of the cold war and thearmy.
You know, I went to rangerschool and I graduated ranger
school and showed up at my firstunit, all hard charging and
ready to go, and they said,great, uh, go down to the motor
(01:40):
pool and watch dudes turnwrenches.
And that that wasn't what I hadsigned up for.
It wasn't what I was interestedin.
And so I figured all right,after a few years of that I'll
get out.
And what am I going to do next?
Well, I heard law school ishard and so let's do that.
(02:02):
And do you know many lawyers?
Are you friends with lawyers?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
no, no, you're actually the first one, but I
have another lawyer coming onhere.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Uh, he was an air force jag well, you'll have to
ask him about this and see if heagrees.
But most lawyers a lot oflawyers are not fun to hang out
with.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
They're jerks at least I've seen that in the
media a few times.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
It's true, I'm in law school surrounded by a whole
bunch of anal, retentive peoplewho think they're the smartest
person in the class.
We have never done anything andnot really enjoying that vibe,
and I figured out that there wasa reserve special forces unit
in the town I was going toschool in.
(02:46):
So I went over there and talkedthem into taking me on and,
long story short, eventually wasable to go to selection and the
qualification course and thenbecome a team leader.
Meanwhile I had this careergoing on as a junior lawyer and
(03:08):
I had progressed and on 9-11, Iwas a federal prosecutor at the
US Attorney's Office here inAustin.
When the towers came down,reserve Unit or National Guard
Unit was mobilized and on activeduty by January 1st of 23.
(03:29):
We were sent to 10th Group inColorado and started preparing
for the invasion of Iraq, and sothat timeline kept being pushed
back.
They demobilized us after ayear.
Third Battalion 10th Group dida by-name request to bring me
back, which I did.
(03:50):
So I deployed to Iraq, camehome, stayed in the reserves or
the Guard and ultimately endedup deploying to Afghanistan for
a SOCOM mission and then latermissions to Northwest Africa in
(04:11):
support of SOC Africa.
When it was all said and done,I ended up doing 30 years.
I never expected to be aroundthat long.
They just kept on luring meback with what sounded like a
good assignment.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
That's how they usually do it.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, and anyhow, I don't regret it at all.
It makes us who we are todaylooking back in later life, and
it was a good experience.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I met great guys, yeah, and it was a good
experience.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I met great guys.
Yeah, I have to imagine thatbeing a lawyer while also being
on detachment makes for a veryhard time to look the other way
when ethics are involved, or I'dlike to believe.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Sometimes I was able to navigate us around, stepping
on the landmine.
I would certainly hope so.
Oh man, did you being on oda?
Well, and this is somethingthat I've seen with our, our
national guard guys like youhave these amazing careers.
You're you're trying to becomea lawyer, but you also have this
dedication and commitment tothe country, to the Special
(05:28):
Forces Regiment, where you needto go.
Did you ever find that yourmission of being a Green Beret
was also holding you back fromwhat you were doing as a lawyer
on the outside?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Not really no, because in the first part of my
legal career I was a prosecutor,a misdemeanor prosecutor, then
a felony prosecutor and then afederal prosecutor.
And so you know, when you workfor the government, they can't
really hold it against you.
When you're deployed, they canand they can find ways to do
that.
Fortunately, I was working withsome people that understood
(06:04):
what it meant to be a GreenBeret and supported that and
made sure that.
You know, I landed on my feetwhen I got back.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's remarkable, the adventuresyou can have in this world.
That's why I always tell guyslike if you're, if you're active
duty, green Beret, and you'rethinking about getting out, look
into guard, because theadventure continues, it doesn't
have to end.
You can go right back to theteam room and find a fulfilling
career.
(06:34):
Um, what was it like goingthrough your career and having
to balance the work life likethat's.
I hate the word balance when itcomes to that, because
sometimes you really can't.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Sometimes you can't.
I, I think I was fortunate inthe sense that I got married
later in life and so I just hadto worry about me for the bulk
of it, Right, and so if I had togo off to a drill weekend, the
biggest complication was okay,who's going to take care of my
(07:09):
dog?
You know, and you, you rememberback in those days, there's a
lot more freedom and you, youknow, you could act unilaterally
and without consequences andwithout having to consider
somebody else's feelings orschedule.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
No, and in the later half of your career you know
team life and even though youget a little more time when
you're in a guard side.
So if you're an 18 alphalistening think about guard you
get a little bit more team time.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, I think I had four or five years as a team
commander.
Oh, in fact I had.
I had deferred my promotion to04 because I could and that
allowed me to stay on the team.
And then, when I went back to10th group on the by name
request, uh, that triggered you.
(08:02):
You know I was getting promotedand I had no, had no choice in
it.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, yeah, when.
When uncle Sam says you have to, you have to wonder did you
ever think about you know?
Switching over to the JAG side,I mean having to and trying to
specialize in the military law.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, I've been asked that a bunch and I I distinctly
remember that crossing my mindat a couple different junctures.
But, um, you know, uh, being aspecial forces guy is the
coolest job in the army and thefunnest.
And you know, when I was innational guard status, uh, we
(08:48):
were going to go to the range,or we're going to blow something
up, or we're going to jump thatweekend versus the lawyers.
They're going to sit in anoffice and do lawyer stuff,
which is what I did all thiswhole week prior to going to
drill.
So I certainly didn't want morelawyering no, no, absolutely
(09:09):
not.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
That's a, that's um.
Sadly, that's.
That's the one thing thatreally keeps a lot of guys from
um wanting to try a lot of otherstuff once they're in.
Like, especially when you getthe idea of like, okay, I'm
gonna leave, going to leaveactive duty, am I going to go to
the guard?
I can go ask Saffra, I can trysomething new, but at the end of
the day, like it, it nothingseems enticing other than going
(09:31):
back to a team.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Well, I agree with you.
I think guys should check itout because you know, if your
civilian life doesn't turn outthe way you want and you want to
get back to active duty, beingin the guard is going to make
that transition back to activeduty a lot easier because you
don't have that break in servicethat's really true.
(09:55):
That's kind of like aninsurance policy I've seen a lot
of guys enacted.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, heck, we just saw uh, you know, not an sf guy,
but we just saw a medal ofhonor recipient to kodomar.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
He came back in the act of service I think, I think,
if you're a medal honorrecipient, they'll, they'll
expedite the red tape for you,right?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
you uh, you get some perks after doing that and when
you look back on your time on ateam, it's weird when finally
the sun sets on the career.
But the guard, you can ridethat out a little longer.
Do you find yourself that youwent as far as you could, or do
you find yourself always maybesaying, man, I wish I could have
(10:40):
just stayed a little longer?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
No, I think, at least for me.
I was ready to go and I wasanxious also to deploy.
And civilians don't understandthis, but if you're on the
sidelines trying, waiting todeploy, it's like practicing for
the game all week and notgetting on the field on saturday
(11:09):
and um, it's, it's kind ofwarped and it's kind of selfish
in many ways, but it's who weare and, uh, for me it was time
deploy, which meant leaving theteam behind, because I was
(11:30):
holding the tooth at that pointanyhow, and I had already come
up to my last deferment to bepromoted to major, and so I
couldn't put it off any longer.
And if I did, then I would havebeen recorded as a non-select
for major and then that wouldhave started the clock on being
(11:52):
separated.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, you can only put that off for so long.
That's the sad reality.
At some point you have to growup, you have to go to the
company side.
It's funny, though, like we uh,we talk about it Like it's the
um, like a like, almost like adeath sentence, or like this
impending doom of like, like ohman.
(12:15):
I gotta leave the team.
But in reality, like I was justtalking to um, another green
beret a couple of days ago, it'slike it's you need to.
You have to at some point youhave to progress and allow the
next guy to take your spot.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
And you have to experience all the growth you're
going to get in.
Follow on assignments.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah it's.
It's vital to the force andnobody wants to be in somebody's
shadow for so long.
I think anybody.
If you're in a team room rightnow and you're staring at your
senior with a lot of hate anddiscontent, I feel for you.
Yeah, you got to understandwhen it's time to let go and
(13:02):
move forward.
And it is easier for theenlisted guys it is.
You finish your time as asenior, you go to the B team,
you go to a broadeningassignment.
You find your way, you enjoy it, you learn something new.
You learn how to be a leader inthat capacity.
Come back to a team Now you'rea Fox, you can be an 18 Zulu.
(13:23):
Come back to a team Now you'rea Fox and you can be an 18 Zulu.
But for our officers, whetheryou're active duty or guard,
it's not the same, it's.
We have to learn how to teachto love all aspects of the
mission.
You have to learn how to.
We have to do a better job ofselling it, because right now,
you know, I would imagine thatyou can't really sell or make
(13:46):
staff time look appealing.
But you have to do a better jobof selling it because right now
, you know, I I would imaginethat you can't really sell or
make staff time look appealing.
But you have to.
Our officers have.
You know, in the convention, inactive duty side, you'll see
about two years of oda time,right, and then it's move
forward, move on.
You have to the.
We have to develop a new way ofof selling the mission to our
(14:07):
officers, because we have tomake staff time look appealing
and sexy.
And it's vital because to be agood officer you're going to
need to learn all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
It would be interesting to see the statistic
on how many captains ETS fromthe army after they're taken off
a team you know and some guysthat I know uh change over and
become a warrant officer.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yep, yep, that's uh, that's the the cheat code.
I had a felt I had a goodamount of captains in my warrant
class and uh, yeah, once youtalk to him you realize like I
love this, this is what I wantto do, and no amount of money
can change it.
And there are some and therewasn't one captain that wasn't
(14:55):
exceptional.
And when we talked and theyshared their stories of their
counseling sessions with theircompany and battalion commanders
who were just begging andpleading them, like please
rethink this, like you're goingto be a great officer, we have
all these great things plannedahead of you for your career,
and then they tell them like,hey, I appreciate the mentorship
(15:17):
, I really truly appreciate it,but I'm really going to be the
best that I could possibly be inthat team room as a warrant.
And you got to listen to thoseguys and I think they do.
I think the regiment does agood job of understanding their
talent and understanding thepassion.
Somebody has to say, hey, I'm abetter quarterback than a coach
(15:39):
.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Well, and think of you know that captain, who's
been a team commander nowserving as a warrant what
they're going to be able to doin terms of mentoring and
developing the next captainthat's coming into the team and
(16:10):
your skill set and the knowledgeyou gained as a Green Beret
helped you, in your civilianendeavors, into becoming a
better lawyer.
No doubt, no doubt.
I do a lot of jury trials in mypractice and a lot of those are
very high profile casesinvolving where we're defending
law enforcement officers,profile cases involving where
we're defending law enforcementofficers.
And here in Austin, texas, it'svery, very popular to indict
(16:35):
cops because we have a far leftprogressive district attorney
who made it a campaign promiseto prosecute cops, so doing a
whole bunch of jury trials.
And that is, you know, a jurytrial.
At least how I approach it isgoing to battle and you know, I
bring my unconventional warfaretoolkit with me, and so my trial
(17:00):
partner is a guy who is a greatlawyer but has no frame of
reference for the military, andon many occasions he says
that'll never.
You know, I'm come up with thisinnovative strategy and he says
that'll never work, we'll neverget away with it.
(17:21):
That's crazy and it works.
My crazy idea or strategysomehow plays out and he's left
wondering.
Well, like what kind of voodoomagic you know is this?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
That's co-analysis.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
It's war gaming.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Exactly More gaming.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Exactly, I do things like.
You know, all of our pretrialmotions are designed to shape
the battlefield, to channelizethe enemy into identifying their
critical weaknesses early on sowe can target that piece of
(18:02):
their case and weaken it so thatultimately we get a not guilty
verdict.
The other thing we do is, youknow the government prosecutors
often like to keep evidencemurky and hide evidence from us
(18:26):
even though they're not supposedto.
And we're able to.
Again, through motions andpretrial activities and hearings
, we can launch what I call aspoiling attack.
You know, in military termsthat's getting the opposing
force that's attacking to deployinto their attack formation
earlier than they'd like to, andso we do that in order to force
(18:51):
them to identify the evidenceearly on.
That's most favorable to us.
Those are just some examples,but I got to believe.
My military backgrounddramatically impacts my lawyer
ability to try cases and Ididn't expect that.
(19:12):
And that wasn't a plan that youknow I was executing.
It's just after beinginstitutionalized through the
military doctrine andunconventional warfare.
It becomes part of who you areand how you view the world and
how you take on problem sets.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Absolutely that's.
That's that's exactly what Iwould envision that, as a green
beret lawyer, would approach histrials.
But it's true, like you have to, you have to view it as
opposition and you have to wargame.
It makes perfect sense in myhead and, yeah, I just feel like
(19:55):
the people that you're workingwith are absolutely uh, they,
they must be just over the overthe moon and grateful for what
you bring to the fight, cause alot of times, from what we see
in media or the perception isnobody wants to take the case on
supporting a law enforcementofficer right now.
(20:16):
It's not the attractive thing,um, and that's that's that.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Just sucks, absolutely sucks I think maybe
also one advantage is advantageI have is I've been scared
before you know pee in yourpants scared on downrange, on
deployments, and a lot of thesecases turn on whether the
(20:43):
officer's fear was reasonablebefore he used force or fired
his weapon and his assessment,his or her assessment, of the
threat.
Well, the prosecutors, you know,they sit in comfortable offices
in air conditioning and themost dangerous thing they do or
(21:07):
have ever done is walk acrossthe street to the courthouse
because they might get hit by acar.
Well, I'm not suggesting I wasor am some kind of badass
warrior.
I was adequate.
I'd like to believe I addedvalue, like to believe I added
(21:32):
value.
But you know, you and I bothknow guys who really, uh, were
stellar warriors, and thatwasn't me, um.
But I've done hard things whiledeployed, I've been scared,
I've I've known what it feelslike to be threatened.
I know what it's like to havesomebody, what, what you
internally feel when somebody ispointing a firearm at you, and
so I think maybe I can relate tothem a little bit better than
(21:54):
the average lawyer.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, absolutely Like .
You have a lived experiencethat may not be exactly along
the lines of a law enforcementofficer, but it's certainly
comparable.
It's certainly something thatyou know would bring comfort to
the mind of somebody.
That's like dealing with beingbrought to trial for doing their
(22:17):
job.
It's like, yeah, it's.
It's a sad state of affair thatthat's what you're dealing with
, but I can't think of a betterperson to have that job.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And I love trying cases.
It is a lot of fun.
It's very serious, right,Because my client has is
potentially going to go toprison if I let this go sideways
, going to go to prison if I letthis go sideways.
But you know, I'd much ratherbe in the fight fighting for my
(22:53):
client than sitting in thebleachers watching.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, it's certainly I can't.
There are a lot of parallels tothe you know, the
unconventional side of of beinga green beret fighting this.
I think you, you have to do.
You find yourself thinkingabout that like, like, holy shit
, like I'm, I'm sort of actuallydoing the unconventional side
in in law, law, like practicinglaw.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I have and it's I'll never do this cause I'll never
find the time.
But it's occurred to me towrite a book called uh trying
cases, like a green beret orgreen berets guide to trial,
jury trials, something,something like that.
And it might help otherattorneys that don't have that
(23:52):
background think differently orview the problem set differently
and maybe open their eyes tomore creative mechanisms to
attack the state's case.
And I guess that's part of it,because traditional criminal
defense attorneys which is thebulk of what I do we don't have
(24:16):
to prove anything right.
The government has the burdenof proof.
They have to prove our clientbeyond a reasonable doubt.
So conventional strategy isdon't do anything, just be on
the defensive, and unlessthey're doing something to hurt
you, you're kind of in a passiverole and that's never been the
(24:39):
way I operate.
You know very much.
A best defense is a strongoffense attack, attack, attack,
attack it every turn, weakentheir case every chance you get,
use some psychologicaloperations on them.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, you got to use every tool that you have at your
disposal and as a Green Beret,you bring a lot to the fight.
That's why it's important neverto forget where you come from.
It's easy for guys, when theytransition, to forget the skill
sets, to forget the thingsthey've done and to sort of sit
(25:23):
in that loss of identity, lossof purpose for you know, for
some for a long time and realize, until they realize that, holy
cow, like no, I'm somebody, I'vedone some hard things, I've
done some remarkable things.
I can do remarkable hard thingsAgain.
I can go after my dreams.
You know, in your case you hada career already.
You had, you had a path and youhad a purpose.
(25:47):
When you walked away from theteams and from the life of a
Green Beret, did you findyourself struggling with the
identity and that purpose?
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I didn't.
I expected I would.
I'd heard all the stories, andthe reason I think I've not
struggled at all is because, inour practice let me explain I
don't know how to be a smallbusiness guy.
Nothing in the army or in lawschool or being a government
lawyer trained me how to run asmall law firm, right.
(26:20):
And so that's the hard part ofmy daily grind is doing the
business side.
The hard part of my daily grindis doing the business side.
Well, one of the things I don'tknow how to do is market or
advertise myself and my team.
So the vast majority of peoplethat find their way to us are
(26:42):
military veterans, lawenforcement or family members of
one of those groups, and sobecause I have a steady parade
of Joes coming in who need help,I'm able to stay connected and
find out how things are andwhat's going on and what it's
(27:04):
like these days and what wasyour last deployment like.
Now, the downside of that is,all these veterans and service
members come in to see me.
They don't come in to sharegood news, right?
You don't come see Doug whenyou don't know about your son's
(27:25):
birthday, right?
You come when you've had ameltdown and you've hit a
problem and most often I thinkthat what?
What I see is guys and galsbring up the rucksack full of
trauma and pain home from theirdeployment and, rather than
(27:46):
getting the help or dealing withit, they shove it down inside
and they try to ignore itbecause we are tough warriors
and we don't need to talk aboutit.
We don't need help, we don'tneed therapy, and I'm just going
to be stoic and that's what mydad and his dad would have done.
(28:08):
And often we see guys and galsself-medicating, either with
alcohol or drugs, and that keepsthe demons in check for a
little while, but ultimatelythere's an explosion and things
(28:28):
go sideways and typically whatthat looks like is a DWI charge
or drug charge or assault,family violence charge.
And then they're sitting withme across my desk and we're
figuring out a strategy to dealwith the legal challenges that
they're in.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
We're figuring out a strategy to to deal with the
legal challenges that they're in?
Yeah, and it's.
It's sad.
Now more than ever, ourveterans are dealing with a lot
of undiagnosed issues, and theone thing that's always easy to
access is drugs and alcohol.
Um this, will we rather have alittle bit of comfort in those
(29:13):
times of pain than dealing withdiscomfort and facing things
through conventional therapy orreaching out?
We just want to medicate, andthat can lead us down a dark
path, which sometimes lead us toDoug's office.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Well, and when you land here you're part of the
deal is you're going to go getthe help you need, and it's
occurred to me that it'd beeasier, less stressful and less
expensive for my clients If theywould get that help they need
before they need me involved.
(29:49):
We're fortunate here in Austin,texas, to have some facilities
close, not too far away, that doa good job with veterans and
military people and lawenforcement Some of those
actually specialize in thatclient group and then a handful
(30:10):
of other providers that willtake my call, listen to the
issue and help when they can,and if they can't help they
might know somebody bettersuited and oftentimes, because
of the relationships we built,they will figure out a way to do
(30:33):
it, even though they don't takeinsurance or they don't take
the kind of insurance the clienthas.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Can I imagine, though , after serving yourself, after
going through the life of beinga Green Beret and being a lawyer
, how do you manage all of that,All of everybody's issues, the
pain, the trauma that you'veseen?
How do you recharge your ownbatteries?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
That's a great question and I'm going to answer
honestly.
I need to do better.
I need to do better so that Ican face the client who's across
the desk with more integrityand more credibility.
I'm happy to report I'mexercising more.
(31:28):
That seems to be important.
The government wouldn't let metransfer my GI education
benefits to my kids, which Ifind stupid, and so you know, at
this point I have a law degreeand two master's degrees.
I'm not going back to schooldegree and two master's degrees.
(31:54):
I'm not going back to school,and so I found this program in
Montana where I'm going to golearn how to be a fly fishing
guide.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Oh, I think, I know, I think I know which program.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Yeah, and you know they won't.
Let me go learn a hobby that'llhelp my health, because that's
recreation, not a vocation.
But they'll happily pay for meto go to fly fishing guide
school and I sincerely doubt Iwill ever work as a fly fishing
guide.
But I'm going to go have thatexperience and recalibrate,
(32:26):
chill out, recalibrate, chillout recenter.
I'll come back and tell youabout it on a future appearance.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
You have to, you absolutely need to.
I'm going to hold you to itbecause we don't do enough Like
just hold space for each other,for another brother, and just
share hey, this works for me.
Or hey, let's go do this, let'sgo sign up for a gym membership
, let's go do something like we.
We tend to see our brothersthat are successful and say well
(32:58):
, doug's good, he's a lawyer,he's fine.
He was an officer, he'll be good.
No, no, everybody, everybodyneeds somebody to say hey, how
are you managing the stress inyour life?
What are you doing?
I certainly don't manage itgreat.
Every day I struggle to that.
We, we have this flawed sense ofmental wellness and what it
(33:21):
looks like.
We think that if you go to atreatment center, if you go to
therapy, you're going to be finefor the rest of your life, and
that's not the truth.
Life is good and bad.
You go through therapy, you'regoing to be fine for the rest of
your life, and that's not thetruth.
Life is good and bad.
Good days, bad days.
In the middle days, everybody'sgoing to struggle.
Those that have toolsunderstand that the most.
Use the tools when you needthem.
(33:43):
Get back into the regimens whenyou fall out of it.
That's life.
You have to be willing tocontinue growing and developing
If you get too stressed out, ifwork starts getting way too much
.
Remember your tools.
Oh shit, I haven't done myrosary in four days.
I've fallen out of practicewith my prayer life.
I haven't done my meditation,and last week I only went to the
(34:06):
gym twice.
And last week I only went tothe gym twice.
Okay, get back in there.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
No one's perfect.
Sometimes I think it can bepretty simple.
Any kind of movement walkingthe dog, just getting outside,
even if it's not for a longperiod of time.
For a long period of time, anykind of incremental exercise we
can get it doesn't have to behigh intensity is better than
(34:35):
none.
Just sitting on the couchdrinking a beer.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, the couch syndrome, as I like to call it.
That's our biggest enemy.
Even if you are managingeverything okay, how often are
you sitting in front of the tvfor hours and hours, days at a
time and not getting outsidedoing something like it's okay
to enjoy tv?
Don't get me wrong, but howmany six-packs are you enjoying
(35:02):
along with your tv tasks?
Yeah, yeah, we got to keep apulse on that.
That, and the simple things arealways just taking it back to
when you were in the militarythe little things, the little
habits, the discipline.
What are you doing to instillthat discipline on a daily basis
(35:22):
?
It worked for us when we wereprivates get up and run, get up
and work out.
It was always in the morning,not once, very rarely, if you
had some sort of schedule orshift work.
Where was your pt hours late atnight?
If you, if you've fallen out ofthat, that regiment of getting
up and doing something hard, getback into it.
It's muscle memory.
(35:43):
It'll come back to you.
I promise it'll come back toyou.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's important, man, andit's uh.
I'm excited to see what this isgoing to be.
Where did the idea come from,though, for fly fishing?
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Well, um, I know it's , I've done a little bit, and um
, and I know it.
It's one of those hobbies likegolf that people find addicting.
And if you're out therestanding in a stream trying to
convince this trout to bite yourlure, your fly, that can cause
(36:25):
you to have to reallyconcentrate on everything that's
going on, and only thatMeanwhile you're blocking out
all the stress you wouldnormally be thinking about at
work or wherever.
And so I've tried golf.
I didn't really dig it.
I want to do more of this andsee if that can become a hobby
(36:49):
for me.
The other way I've gotten intoit is I got invited to about 10
years ago to help with aveterans fly fishing program in
northern New Mexico, and it'shosted at the big Boy Scout
Ranch out there and outside ofCimarron, and the program brings
(37:14):
, you know, around 15participants veterans.
Each October we go into themountains.
It's all paid for, you'repartnered up with a fly fishing
guide, you have great meals,campfires at night where we're
hanging out together.
It's a wonderful program and Ilook forward to helping with it.
(37:36):
Each time I don't try to helpanybody fish, really, I'm the
chief dishwasher, I'm notkidding.
I cut the firewood and I haulthe water for the cooks.
I'm the chief chogie boy.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
You know it's good to give back in those ways, though
.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, if there's veterans out there that think
you know they might like toparticipate in that, I would
love to hear from them.
We'll visit to make sure it's agood fit.
But, like I said, it's all free.
The veteran simply has to getout there and back.
Everything's covered excepttransportation.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Heck, yeah, we'll put it in the episode description.
We'll put a link to it.
Yeah, yeah, we.
Sometimes the simplest thingthat we can do to get better and
get back to feeling good likeour old selves is being willing
to be of help and of service toothers.
It really is us off it's still.
(38:53):
If you're just infantry guy S1,whatever, I would argue that
within your career there's along history of you helping,
teach, coach, mentor and beingof service to others and at your
core as an NCO, it's who youare Give back.
Tap into that.
I'm telling you, if you'restruggling, if you don't know
where to start, find a way togive back.
Connect with a resource in yourlocal community, whether it's a
(39:17):
church, a food bank.
If you're struggling and don'tknow where to start, find a way
to help somebody.
It will reconnect you withother people.
It will reconnect you with apart of yourself that you miss
deeply and it's that person ofaction.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
And help you find purpose.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
You were here to add value and to contribute and you
may not realize it, but if youfind that program that you can
help with and give back and makesomebody else's life better,
not only are you taking yourmind off your problems, but you
are contributing and you'readding value and your life has
(39:59):
purpose.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yep, yes, sir Doug.
If people want to get ahold ofyou and uh, seek out your
services or connect with you,where can they go?
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, so uh, I'll give you a couple of different
ways, and what I like to tellveterans is if you think you
need a lawyer, you're welcome tocall and I will visit with you
on the phone and help you figureout if you really do need a
lawyer.
Sometimes you need to just shutup and go home and say you're
(40:31):
sorry.
And sometimes you need to stopspending so much money.
But anyway, I can help sortthat out for you and then, if
it's not something we can helpwith for whatever reason, we'll
help get you to a lawyer we knowand trust or we vet for you
because we know what to look for.
(40:52):
And so our website isoconnellwestcom, so that's
O-C-O-N-N-E-L-L-W-E-S-Tcom.
My email is doug atoconnellwestcom, and then your
website has our phone number onit.
Let me tell you, let me talkfor just one minute about what
(41:17):
we're going on.
It's going on.
We have a lawsuit against theArmy and DOD right now and I'm
going to try to keep this reallysimple but when Army CID
investigates someone for eithermisconduct or potential criminal
violation, if they thinksomething has actually happened,
(41:39):
even if there's no arrest or nocharges, they're going to send
that suspect's information tothe FBI and a federal criminal
history will be created and thatcriminal history will show you
were arrested or received intocustody even if you weren't.
(42:01):
And so we're trying to get theword out because we believe the
judge is going to allow us toturn this into a class action
lawsuit, because it's happeningto thousands and thousands of
soldiers and veterans and it'sreally ridiculous.
There's no good explanation forwhy they're doing it.
(42:24):
And you know, we tried to doall the administrative channels
and ultimately they just werestubborn.
And so we said, ok, let's havea lawsuit.
If we're going to fight, let'smake this really worthwhile.
Let's make this a class actionlawsuit.
So I'll also send you the linkto that news article.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yes, please.
News story and maybe you canpost that as well, because oh,
yeah, it'll be in the episodedescription and then, uh, we'll
put that all throughout oursocial media.
Yeah, good deal.
Absolutely, man.
There isn't anybody better,better suited for this fight.
Doug, that's awesome.
Uh, we need to have another.
Uh, we need to do a part two.
(43:06):
Bring you back to talk aboutthis let's do that because it's
definitely affecting a lot ofservice members.
Yeah, hell, yeah, doug, can'tthank you enough for stopping by
and chatting with me, but, uh,what a heck of a career and, um,
what a great profession to beinvolved in as a green beret.
I think more of our greenberets need to get in the law to
have a unique perspective on,uh, how to work by, with and
(43:30):
through to get to the desiredend state.
Um, if you're all listening,take a.
Do me a favor.
Just pause for a second.
Go to episode description.
Click on those links that wejust talked about.
Uh, help support doug in thisfight and connect with him.
If you need his assistance and,uh, please do me a favor, head
on over to apple podcast orspotify or YouTube.
Leave us a comment, give us alike and please subscribe.
(43:52):
Thank you all for tuning in.
Thank you, doug, for being here.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
We'll see you all next time Until then take care.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Thanks for tuning in and don't forget to like, follow
, share, subscribe and review uson your favorite podcast
platform.
If you want to support us, headon over to buymeacoffeecom.
Forward slash SecHawk podcastand buy us a coffee.
Connect with us on Instagram, xor TikTok and share your
thoughts or questions abouttoday's episode.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
You can also visit securityhawkcom for exclusive
content, resources and updates.
And remember we get throughthis together.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
If you're still listening, the episode's over.
Yeah, there's no more Tune intomorrow or next week.
Thank you.
Security Odd Podcast.
Let's go the only podcastthat's purpose-built from the
ground up to support you Notjust you, but the wider audience
, everybody.
Authentic, impactful andinsightful conversations that
serve a purpose to help you.
And the quality has gone up.
It's decent and it's hosted byme, danny Caballero.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Doug O'Connell how's it going?
Good man, thanks for having meon.
Absolutely.
Man, you've got a career that Iam constantly telling people to
look into, because once you getout of the military, you got to
dream, you got to swing for thefences, you got to try to do
something remarkable.
Today, my man, I want to diveinto your military history, your
(00:47):
background and what you'redoing today, sure.
So where does it all start forDoug?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Well, I guess you know, I went to college because
that's what I was expected to doin my family.
I was the youngest of six kidsand did okay in college and
learned about ROTC and thatsounded like a good idea because
I knew I didn't want to go geta job.
But I figured I'd go to thearmy for a while and maybe get
(01:18):
that out of my system.
Sure enough, I did.
That was the late 80s, rightbefore the first downsizing at
the end of the cold war and thearmy.
You know, I went to rangerschool and I graduated ranger
school and showed up at my firstunit, all hard charging and
ready to go, and they said,great, uh, go down to the motor
(01:40):
pool and watch dudes turnwrenches.
And that that wasn't what I hadsigned up for.
It wasn't what I was interestedin.
And so I figured all right,after a few years of that I'll
get out.
And what am I going to do next?
Well, I heard law school ishard and so let's do that.
(02:02):
And do you know many lawyers?
Are you friends with lawyers?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
no, no, you're actually the first one, but I
have another lawyer coming onhere.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Uh, he was an air force jag well, you'll have to
ask him about this and see if heagrees.
But most lawyers a lot oflawyers are not fun to hang out
with.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
They're jerks at least I've seen that in the
media a few times.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
It's true, I'm in law school surrounded by a whole
bunch of anal, retentive peoplewho think they're the smartest
person in the class.
We have never done anything andnot really enjoying that vibe,
and I figured out that there wasa reserve special forces unit
in the town I was going toschool in.
(02:46):
So I went over there and talkedthem into taking me on and,
long story short, eventually wasable to go to selection and the
qualification course and thenbecome a team leader.
Meanwhile I had this careergoing on as a junior lawyer and
(03:08):
I had progressed and on 9-11, Iwas a federal prosecutor at the
US Attorney's Office here inAustin.
When the towers came down,reserve Unit or National Guard
Unit was mobilized and on activeduty by January 1st of 23.
(03:29):
We were sent to 10th Group inColorado and started preparing
for the invasion of Iraq, and sothat timeline kept being pushed
back.
They demobilized us after ayear.
Third Battalion 10th Group dida by-name request to bring me
back, which I did.
(03:50):
So I deployed to Iraq, camehome, stayed in the reserves or
the Guard and ultimately endedup deploying to Afghanistan for
a SOCOM mission and then latermissions to Northwest Africa in
(04:11):
support of SOC Africa.
When it was all said and done,I ended up doing 30 years.
I never expected to be aroundthat long.
They just kept on luring meback with what sounded like a
good assignment.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
That's how they usually do it.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Yeah, and anyhow, I don't regret it at all.
It makes us who we are todaylooking back in later life, and
it was a good experience.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I met great guys, yeah, and it was a good
experience.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I met great guys.
Yeah, I have to imagine thatbeing a lawyer while also being
on detachment makes for a veryhard time to look the other way
when ethics are involved, or I'dlike to believe.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Sometimes I was able to navigate us around, stepping
on the landmine.
I would certainly hope so.
Oh man, did you being on oda?
Well, and this is somethingthat I've seen with our, our
national guard guys like youhave these amazing careers.
You're you're trying to becomea lawyer, but you also have this
dedication and commitment tothe country, to the Special
(05:28):
Forces Regiment, where you needto go.
Did you ever find that yourmission of being a Green Beret
was also holding you back fromwhat you were doing as a lawyer
on the outside?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Not really no, because in the first part of my
legal career I was a prosecutor,a misdemeanor prosecutor, then
a felony prosecutor and then afederal prosecutor.
And so you know, when you workfor the government, they can't
really hold it against you.
When you're deployed, they canand they can find ways to do
that.
Fortunately, I was working withsome people that understood
(06:04):
what it meant to be a GreenBeret and supported that and
made sure that.
You know, I landed on my feetwhen I got back.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's remarkable, the adventuresyou can have in this world.
That's why I always tell guyslike if you're, if you're active
duty, green Beret, and you'rethinking about getting out, look
into guard, because theadventure continues, it doesn't
have to end.
You can go right back to theteam room and find a fulfilling
career.
(06:34):
Um, what was it like goingthrough your career and having
to balance the work life likethat's.
I hate the word balance when itcomes to that, because
sometimes you really can't.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Sometimes you can't.
I, I think I was fortunate inthe sense that I got married
later in life and so I just hadto worry about me for the bulk
of it, Right, and so if I had togo off to a drill weekend, the
biggest complication was okay,who's going to take care of my
(07:09):
dog?
You know, and you, you rememberback in those days, there's a
lot more freedom and you, youknow, you could act unilaterally
and without consequences andwithout having to consider
somebody else's feelings orschedule.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
No, and in the later half of your career you know
team life and even though youget a little more time when
you're in a guard side.
So if you're an 18 alphalistening think about guard you
get a little bit more team time.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, I think I had four or five years as a team
commander.
Oh, in fact I had.
I had deferred my promotion to04 because I could and that
allowed me to stay on the team.
And then, when I went back to10th group on the by name
request, uh, that triggered you.
(08:02):
You know I was getting promotedand I had no, had no choice in
it.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, yeah, when.
When uncle Sam says you have to, you have to wonder did you
ever think about you know?
Switching over to the JAG side,I mean having to and trying to
specialize in the military law.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, I've been asked that a bunch and I I distinctly
remember that crossing my mindat a couple different junctures.
But, um, you know, uh, being aspecial forces guy is the
coolest job in the army and thefunnest.
And you know, when I was innational guard status, uh, we
(08:48):
were going to go to the range,or we're going to blow something
up, or we're going to jump thatweekend versus the lawyers.
They're going to sit in anoffice and do lawyer stuff,
which is what I did all thiswhole week prior to going to
drill.
So I certainly didn't want morelawyering no, no, absolutely
(09:09):
not.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
That's a, that's um.
Sadly, that's.
That's the one thing thatreally keeps a lot of guys from
um wanting to try a lot of otherstuff once they're in.
Like, especially when you getthe idea of like, okay, I'm
gonna leave, going to leaveactive duty, am I going to go to
the guard?
I can go ask Saffra, I can trysomething new, but at the end of
the day, like it, it nothingseems enticing other than going
(09:31):
back to a team.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Well, I agree with you.
I think guys should check itout because you know, if your
civilian life doesn't turn outthe way you want and you want to
get back to active duty, beingin the guard is going to make
that transition back to activeduty a lot easier because you
don't have that break in servicethat's really true.
(09:55):
That's kind of like aninsurance policy I've seen a lot
of guys enacted.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, heck, we just saw uh, you know, not an sf guy,
but we just saw a medal ofhonor recipient to kodomar.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
He came back in the act of service I think, I think,
if you're a medal honorrecipient, they'll, they'll
expedite the red tape for you,right?
Speaker 2 (10:19):
you uh, you get some perks after doing that and when
you look back on your time on ateam, it's weird when finally
the sun sets on the career.
But the guard, you can ridethat out a little longer.
Do you find yourself that youwent as far as you could, or do
you find yourself always maybesaying, man, I wish I could have
(10:40):
just stayed a little longer?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
No, I think, at least for me.
I was ready to go and I wasanxious also to deploy.
And civilians don't understandthis, but if you're on the
sidelines trying, waiting todeploy, it's like practicing for
the game all week and notgetting on the field on saturday
(11:09):
and um, it's, it's kind ofwarped and it's kind of selfish
in many ways, but it's who weare and, uh, for me it was time
deploy, which meant leaving theteam behind, because I was
(11:30):
holding the tooth at that pointanyhow, and I had already come
up to my last deferment to bepromoted to major, and so I
couldn't put it off any longer.
And if I did, then I would havebeen recorded as a non-select
for major and then that wouldhave started the clock on being
(11:52):
separated.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, you can only put that off for so long.
That's the sad reality.
At some point you have to growup, you have to go to the
company side.
It's funny, though, like we uh,we talk about it Like it's the
um, like a like, almost like adeath sentence, or like this
impending doom of like, like ohman.
(12:15):
I gotta leave the team.
But in reality, like I was justtalking to um, another green
beret a couple of days ago, it'slike it's you need to.
You have to at some point youhave to progress and allow the
next guy to take your spot.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
And you have to experience all the growth you're
going to get in.
Follow on assignments.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah it's.
It's vital to the force andnobody wants to be in somebody's
shadow for so long.
I think anybody.
If you're in a team room rightnow and you're staring at your
senior with a lot of hate anddiscontent, I feel for you.
Yeah, you got to understandwhen it's time to let go and
(13:02):
move forward.
And it is easier for theenlisted guys it is.
You finish your time as asenior, you go to the B team,
you go to a broadeningassignment.
You find your way, you enjoy it, you learn something new.
You learn how to be a leader inthat capacity.
Come back to a team Now you'rea Fox, you can be an 18 Zulu.
(13:23):
Come back to a team Now you'rea Fox and you can be an 18 Zulu.
But for our officers, whetheryou're active duty or guard,
it's not the same, it's.
We have to learn how to teachto love all aspects of the
mission.
You have to learn how to.
We have to do a better job ofselling it, because right now,
you know, I would imagine thatyou can't really sell or make
(13:46):
staff time look appealing.
But you have to do a better jobof selling it because right now
, you know, I I would imaginethat you can't really sell or
make staff time look appealing.
But you have to.
Our officers have.
You know, in the convention, inactive duty side, you'll see
about two years of oda time,right, and then it's move
forward, move on.
You have to the.
We have to develop a new way ofof selling the mission to our
(14:07):
officers, because we have tomake staff time look appealing
and sexy.
And it's vital because to be agood officer you're going to
need to learn all that stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
It would be interesting to see the statistic
on how many captains ETS fromthe army after they're taken off
a team you know and some guysthat I know uh change over and
become a warrant officer.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yep, yep, that's uh, that's the the cheat code.
I had a felt I had a goodamount of captains in my warrant
class and uh, yeah, once youtalk to him you realize like I
love this, this is what I wantto do, and no amount of money
can change it.
And there are some and therewasn't one captain that wasn't
(14:55):
exceptional.
And when we talked and theyshared their stories of their
counseling sessions with theircompany and battalion commanders
who were just begging andpleading them, like please
rethink this, like you're goingto be a great officer, we have
all these great things plannedahead of you for your career,
and then they tell them like,hey, I appreciate the mentorship
(15:17):
, I really truly appreciate it,but I'm really going to be the
best that I could possibly be inthat team room as a warrant.
And you got to listen to thoseguys and I think they do.
I think the regiment does agood job of understanding their
talent and understanding thepassion.
Somebody has to say, hey, I'm abetter quarterback than a coach
(15:39):
.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Well, and think of you know that captain, who's
been a team commander nowserving as a warrant what
they're going to be able to doin terms of mentoring and
developing the next captainthat's coming into the team and
(16:10):
your skill set and the knowledgeyou gained as a Green Beret
helped you, in your civilianendeavors, into becoming a
better lawyer.
No doubt, no doubt.
I do a lot of jury trials in mypractice and a lot of those are
very high profile casesinvolving where we're defending
law enforcement officers,profile cases involving where
we're defending law enforcementofficers.
And here in Austin, texas, it'svery, very popular to indict
(16:35):
cops because we have a far leftprogressive district attorney
who made it a campaign promiseto prosecute cops, so doing a
whole bunch of jury trials.
And that is, you know, a jurytrial.
At least how I approach it isgoing to battle and you know, I
bring my unconventional warfaretoolkit with me, and so my trial
(17:00):
partner is a guy who is a greatlawyer but has no frame of
reference for the military, andon many occasions he says
that'll never.
You know, I'm come up with thisinnovative strategy and he says
that'll never work, we'll neverget away with it.
(17:21):
That's crazy and it works.
My crazy idea or strategysomehow plays out and he's left
wondering.
Well, like what kind of voodoomagic you know is this?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
That's co-analysis.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
It's war gaming.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Exactly More gaming.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Exactly, I do things like.
You know, all of our pretrialmotions are designed to shape
the battlefield, to channelizethe enemy into identifying their
critical weaknesses early on sowe can target that piece of
(18:02):
their case and weaken it so thatultimately we get a not guilty
verdict.
The other thing we do is, youknow the government prosecutors
often like to keep evidencemurky and hide evidence from us
(18:26):
even though they're not supposedto.
And we're able to.
Again, through motions andpretrial activities and hearings
, we can launch what I call aspoiling attack.
You know, in military termsthat's getting the opposing
force that's attacking to deployinto their attack formation
earlier than they'd like to, andso we do that in order to force
(18:51):
them to identify the evidenceearly on.
That's most favorable to us.
Those are just some examples,but I got to believe.
My military backgrounddramatically impacts my lawyer
ability to try cases and Ididn't expect that.
(19:12):
And that wasn't a plan that youknow I was executing.
It's just after beinginstitutionalized through the
military doctrine andunconventional warfare.
It becomes part of who you areand how you view the world and
how you take on problem sets.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Absolutely that's.
That's that's exactly what Iwould envision that, as a green
beret lawyer, would approach histrials.
But it's true, like you have to, you have to view it as
opposition and you have to wargame.
It makes perfect sense in myhead and, yeah, I just feel like
(19:55):
the people that you're workingwith are absolutely uh, they,
they must be just over the overthe moon and grateful for what
you bring to the fight, cause alot of times, from what we see
in media or the perception isnobody wants to take the case on
supporting a law enforcementofficer right now.
(20:16):
It's not the attractive thing,um, and that's that's that.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Just sucks, absolutely sucks I think maybe
also one advantage is advantageI have is I've been scared
before you know pee in yourpants scared on downrange, on
deployments, and a lot of thesecases turn on whether the
(20:43):
officer's fear was reasonablebefore he used force or fired
his weapon and his assessment,his or her assessment, of the
threat.
Well, the prosecutors, you know,they sit in comfortable offices
in air conditioning and themost dangerous thing they do or
(21:07):
have ever done is walk acrossthe street to the courthouse
because they might get hit by acar.
Well, I'm not suggesting I wasor am some kind of badass
warrior.
I was adequate.
I'd like to believe I addedvalue, like to believe I added
(21:32):
value.
But you know, you and I bothknow guys who really, uh, were
stellar warriors, and thatwasn't me, um.
But I've done hard things whiledeployed, I've been scared,
I've I've known what it feelslike to be threatened.
I know what it's like to havesomebody, what, what you
internally feel when somebody ispointing a firearm at you, and
so I think maybe I can relate tothem a little bit better than
(21:54):
the average lawyer.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, absolutely Like .
You have a lived experiencethat may not be exactly along
the lines of a law enforcementofficer, but it's certainly
comparable.
It's certainly something thatyou know would bring comfort to
the mind of somebody.
That's like dealing with beingbrought to trial for doing their
(22:17):
job.
It's like, yeah, it's.
It's a sad state of affair thatthat's what you're dealing with
, but I can't think of a betterperson to have that job.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And I love trying cases.
It is a lot of fun.
It's very serious, right,Because my client has is
potentially going to go toprison if I let this go sideways
, going to go to prison if I letthis go sideways.
But you know, I'd much ratherbe in the fight fighting for my
(22:53):
client than sitting in thebleachers watching.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, it's certainly I can't.
There are a lot of parallels tothe you know, the
unconventional side of of beinga green beret fighting this.
I think you, you have to do.
You find yourself thinkingabout that like, like, holy shit
, like I'm, I'm sort of actuallydoing the unconventional side
in in law, law, like practicinglaw.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I have and it's I'll never do this cause I'll never
find the time.
But it's occurred to me towrite a book called uh trying
cases, like a green beret orgreen berets guide to trial,
jury trials, something,something like that.
And it might help otherattorneys that don't have that
(23:52):
background think differently orview the problem set differently
and maybe open their eyes tomore creative mechanisms to
attack the state's case.
And I guess that's part of it,because traditional criminal
defense attorneys which is thebulk of what I do we don't have
(24:16):
to prove anything right.
The government has the burdenof proof.
They have to prove our clientbeyond a reasonable doubt.
So conventional strategy isdon't do anything, just be on
the defensive, and unlessthey're doing something to hurt
you, you're kind of in a passiverole and that's never been the
(24:39):
way I operate.
You know very much.
A best defense is a strongoffense attack, attack, attack,
attack it every turn, weakentheir case every chance you get,
use some psychologicaloperations on them.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, you got to use every tool that you have at your
disposal and as a Green Beret,you bring a lot to the fight.
That's why it's important neverto forget where you come from.
It's easy for guys, when theytransition, to forget the skill
sets, to forget the thingsthey've done and to sort of sit
(25:23):
in that loss of identity, lossof purpose for you know, for
some for a long time and realize, until they realize that, holy
cow, like no, I'm somebody, I'vedone some hard things, I've
done some remarkable things.
I can do remarkable hard thingsAgain.
I can go after my dreams.
You know, in your case you hada career already.
You had, you had a path and youhad a purpose.
(25:47):
When you walked away from theteams and from the life of a
Green Beret, did you findyourself struggling with the
identity and that purpose?
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I didn't.
I expected I would.
I'd heard all the stories, andthe reason I think I've not
struggled at all is because, inour practice let me explain I
don't know how to be a smallbusiness guy.
Nothing in the army or in lawschool or being a government
lawyer trained me how to run asmall law firm, right.
(26:20):
And so that's the hard part ofmy daily grind is doing the
business side.
The hard part of my daily grindis doing the business side.
Well, one of the things I don'tknow how to do is market or
advertise myself and my team.
So the vast majority of peoplethat find their way to us are
(26:42):
military veterans, lawenforcement or family members of
one of those groups, and sobecause I have a steady parade
of Joes coming in who need help,I'm able to stay connected and
find out how things are andwhat's going on and what it's
(27:04):
like these days and what wasyour last deployment like.
Now, the downside of that is,all these veterans and service
members come in to see me.
They don't come in to sharegood news, right?
You don't come see Doug whenyou don't know about your son's
(27:25):
birthday, right?
You come when you've had ameltdown and you've hit a
problem and most often I thinkthat what?
What I see is guys and galsbring up the rucksack full of
trauma and pain home from theirdeployment and, rather than
(27:46):
getting the help or dealing withit, they shove it down inside
and they try to ignore itbecause we are tough warriors
and we don't need to talk aboutit.
We don't need help, we don'tneed therapy, and I'm just going
to be stoic and that's what mydad and his dad would have done.
(28:08):
And often we see guys and galsself-medicating, either with
alcohol or drugs, and that keepsthe demons in check for a
little while, but ultimatelythere's an explosion and things
(28:28):
go sideways and typically whatthat looks like is a DWI charge
or drug charge or assault,family violence charge.
And then they're sitting withme across my desk and we're
figuring out a strategy to dealwith the legal challenges that
they're in.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
We're figuring out a strategy to to deal with the
legal challenges that they're in?
Yeah, and it's.
It's sad.
Now more than ever, ourveterans are dealing with a lot
of undiagnosed issues, and theone thing that's always easy to
access is drugs and alcohol.
Um this, will we rather have alittle bit of comfort in those
(29:13):
times of pain than dealing withdiscomfort and facing things
through conventional therapy orreaching out?
We just want to medicate, andthat can lead us down a dark
path, which sometimes lead us toDoug's office.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Well, and when you land here you're part of the
deal is you're going to go getthe help you need, and it's
occurred to me that it'd beeasier, less stressful and less
expensive for my clients If theywould get that help they need
before they need me involved.
(29:49):
We're fortunate here in Austin,texas, to have some facilities
close, not too far away, that doa good job with veterans and
military people and lawenforcement Some of those
actually specialize in thatclient group and then a handful
(30:10):
of other providers that willtake my call, listen to the
issue and help when they can,and if they can't help they
might know somebody bettersuited and oftentimes, because
of the relationships we built,they will figure out a way to do
(30:33):
it, even though they don't takeinsurance or they don't take
the kind of insurance the clienthas.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Can I imagine, though , after serving yourself, after
going through the life of beinga Green Beret and being a lawyer
, how do you manage all of that,All of everybody's issues, the
pain, the trauma that you'veseen?
How do you recharge your ownbatteries?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
That's a great question and I'm going to answer
honestly.
I need to do better.
I need to do better so that Ican face the client who's across
the desk with more integrityand more credibility.
I'm happy to report I'mexercising more.
(31:28):
That seems to be important.
The government wouldn't let metransfer my GI education
benefits to my kids, which Ifind stupid, and so you know, at
this point I have a law degreeand two master's degrees.
I'm not going back to schooldegree and two master's degrees.
(31:54):
I'm not going back to school,and so I found this program in
Montana where I'm going to golearn how to be a fly fishing
guide.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Oh, I think, I know, I think I know which program.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Yeah, and you know they won't.
Let me go learn a hobby that'llhelp my health, because that's
recreation, not a vocation.
But they'll happily pay for meto go to fly fishing guide
school and I sincerely doubt Iwill ever work as a fly fishing
guide.
But I'm going to go have thatexperience and recalibrate,
(32:26):
chill out, recalibrate, chillout recenter.
I'll come back and tell youabout it on a future appearance.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
You have to, you absolutely need to.
I'm going to hold you to itbecause we don't do enough Like
just hold space for each other,for another brother, and just
share hey, this works for me.
Or hey, let's go do this, let'sgo sign up for a gym membership
, let's go do something like we.
We tend to see our brothersthat are successful and say well
(32:58):
, doug's good, he's a lawyer,he's fine.
He was an officer, he'll be good.
No, no, everybody, everybodyneeds somebody to say hey, how
are you managing the stress inyour life?
What are you doing?
I certainly don't manage itgreat.
Every day I struggle to that.
We, we have this flawed sense ofmental wellness and what it
(33:21):
looks like.
We think that if you go to atreatment center, if you go to
therapy, you're going to be finefor the rest of your life, and
that's not the truth.
Life is good and bad.
You go through therapy, you'regoing to be fine for the rest of
your life, and that's not thetruth.
Life is good and bad.
Good days, bad days.
In the middle days, everybody'sgoing to struggle.
Those that have toolsunderstand that the most.
Use the tools when you needthem.
(33:43):
Get back into the regimens whenyou fall out of it.
That's life.
You have to be willing tocontinue growing and developing
If you get too stressed out, ifwork starts getting way too much
.
Remember your tools.
Oh shit, I haven't done myrosary in four days.
I've fallen out of practicewith my prayer life.
I haven't done my meditation,and last week I only went to the
(34:06):
gym twice.
And last week I only went tothe gym twice.
Okay, get back in there.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
No one's perfect.
Sometimes I think it can bepretty simple.
Any kind of movement walkingthe dog, just getting outside,
even if it's not for a longperiod of time.
For a long period of time, anykind of incremental exercise we
can get it doesn't have to behigh intensity is better than
(34:35):
none.
Just sitting on the couchdrinking a beer.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, the couch syndrome, as I like to call it.
That's our biggest enemy.
Even if you are managingeverything okay, how often are
you sitting in front of the tvfor hours and hours, days at a
time and not getting outsidedoing something like it's okay
to enjoy tv?
Don't get me wrong, but howmany six-packs are you enjoying
(35:02):
along with your tv tasks?
Yeah, yeah, we got to keep apulse on that.
That, and the simple things arealways just taking it back to
when you were in the militarythe little things, the little
habits, the discipline.
What are you doing to instillthat discipline on a daily basis
(35:22):
?
It worked for us when we wereprivates get up and run, get up
and work out.
It was always in the morning,not once, very rarely, if you
had some sort of schedule orshift work.
Where was your pt hours late atnight?
If you, if you've fallen out ofthat, that regiment of getting
up and doing something hard, getback into it.
It's muscle memory.
(35:43):
It'll come back to you.
I promise it'll come back toyou.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's important, man, andit's uh.
I'm excited to see what this isgoing to be.
Where did the idea come from,though, for fly fishing?
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Well, um, I know it's , I've done a little bit, and um
, and I know it.
It's one of those hobbies likegolf that people find addicting.
And if you're out therestanding in a stream trying to
convince this trout to bite yourlure, your fly, that can cause
(36:25):
you to have to reallyconcentrate on everything that's
going on, and only thatMeanwhile you're blocking out
all the stress you wouldnormally be thinking about at
work or wherever.
And so I've tried golf.
I didn't really dig it.
I want to do more of this andsee if that can become a hobby
(36:49):
for me.
The other way I've gotten intoit is I got invited to about 10
years ago to help with aveterans fly fishing program in
northern New Mexico, and it'shosted at the big Boy Scout
Ranch out there and outside ofCimarron, and the program brings
(37:14):
, you know, around 15participants veterans.
Each October we go into themountains.
It's all paid for, you'repartnered up with a fly fishing
guide, you have great meals,campfires at night where we're
hanging out together.
It's a wonderful program and Ilook forward to helping with it.
(37:36):
Each time I don't try to helpanybody fish, really, I'm the
chief dishwasher, I'm notkidding.
I cut the firewood and I haulthe water for the cooks.
I'm the chief chogie boy.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
You know it's good to give back in those ways, though
.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, if there's veterans out there that think
you know they might like toparticipate in that, I would
love to hear from them.
We'll visit to make sure it's agood fit.
But, like I said, it's all free.
The veteran simply has to getout there and back.
Everything's covered excepttransportation.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Heck, yeah, we'll put it in the episode description.
We'll put a link to it.
Yeah, yeah, we.
Sometimes the simplest thingthat we can do to get better and
get back to feeling good likeour old selves is being willing
to be of help and of service toothers.
It really is us off it's still.
(38:53):
If you're just infantry guy S1,whatever, I would argue that
within your career there's along history of you helping,
teach, coach, mentor and beingof service to others and at your
core as an NCO, it's who youare Give back.
Tap into that.
I'm telling you, if you'restruggling, if you don't know
where to start, find a way togive back.
Connect with a resource in yourlocal community, whether it's a
(39:17):
church, a food bank.
If you're struggling and don'tknow where to start, find a way
to help somebody.
It will reconnect you withother people.
It will reconnect you with apart of yourself that you miss
deeply and it's that person ofaction.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
And help you find purpose.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
You were here to add value and to contribute and you
may not realize it, but if youfind that program that you can
help with and give back and makesomebody else's life better,
not only are you taking yourmind off your problems, but you
are contributing and you'readding value and your life has
(39:59):
purpose.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yep, yes, sir Doug.
If people want to get ahold ofyou and uh, seek out your
services or connect with you,where can they go?
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, so uh, I'll give you a couple of different
ways, and what I like to tellveterans is if you think you
need a lawyer, you're welcome tocall and I will visit with you
on the phone and help you figureout if you really do need a
lawyer.
Sometimes you need to just shutup and go home and say you're
(40:31):
sorry.
And sometimes you need to stopspending so much money.
But anyway, I can help sortthat out for you and then, if
it's not something we can helpwith for whatever reason, we'll
help get you to a lawyer we knowand trust or we vet for you
because we know what to look for.
(40:52):
And so our website isoconnellwestcom, so that's
O-C-O-N-N-E-L-L-W-E-S-Tcom.
My email is doug atoconnellwestcom, and then your
website has our phone number onit.
Let me tell you, let me talkfor just one minute about what
(41:17):
we're going on.
It's going on.
We have a lawsuit against theArmy and DOD right now and I'm
going to try to keep this reallysimple but when Army CID
investigates someone for eithermisconduct or potential criminal
violation, if they thinksomething has actually happened,
(41:39):
even if there's no arrest or nocharges, they're going to send
that suspect's information tothe FBI and a federal criminal
history will be created and thatcriminal history will show you
were arrested or received intocustody even if you weren't.
(42:01):
And so we're trying to get theword out because we believe the
judge is going to allow us toturn this into a class action
lawsuit, because it's happeningto thousands and thousands of
soldiers and veterans and it'sreally ridiculous.
There's no good explanation forwhy they're doing it.
(42:24):
And you know, we tried to doall the administrative channels
and ultimately they just werestubborn.
And so we said, ok, let's havea lawsuit.
If we're going to fight, let'smake this really worthwhile.
Let's make this a class actionlawsuit.
So I'll also send you the linkto that news article.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yes, please.
News story and maybe you canpost that as well, because oh,
yeah, it'll be in the episodedescription and then, uh, we'll
put that all throughout oursocial media.
Yeah, good deal.
Absolutely, man.
There isn't anybody better,better suited for this fight.
Doug, that's awesome.
Uh, we need to have another.
Uh, we need to do a part two.
(43:06):
Bring you back to talk aboutthis let's do that because it's
definitely affecting a lot ofservice members.
Yeah, hell, yeah, doug, can'tthank you enough for stopping by
and chatting with me, but, uh,what a heck of a career and, um,
what a great profession to beinvolved in as a green beret.
I think more of our greenberets need to get in the law to
have a unique perspective on,uh, how to work by, with and
(43:30):
through to get to the desiredend state.
Um, if you're all listening,take a.
Do me a favor.
Just pause for a second.
Go to episode description.
Click on those links that wejust talked about.
Uh, help support doug in thisfight and connect with him.
If you need his assistance and,uh, please do me a favor, head
on over to apple podcast orspotify or YouTube.
Leave us a comment, give us alike and please subscribe.
(43:52):
Thank you all for tuning in.
Thank you, doug, for being here.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
We'll see you all next time Until then take care.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Thanks for tuning in and don't forget to like, follow
, share, subscribe and review uson your favorite podcast
platform.
If you want to support us, headon over to buymeacoffeecom.
Forward slash SecHawk podcastand buy us a coffee.
Connect with us on Instagram, xor TikTok and share your
thoughts or questions abouttoday's episode.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
You can also visit securityhawkcom for exclusive
content, resources and updates.
And remember we get throughthis together.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
If you're still listening, the episode's over.
Yeah, there's no more Tune intomorrow or next week.
Thank you.
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