May 23, 2025 • 51 mins
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In this emotionally charged episode of Security Halt!, host Deny Caballero welcomes filmmaker, author, and former Army Chaplain Justin Roberts for a conversation that bridges war, faith, trauma, and the power of healing through story.
Together, they explore the critical role chaplains play in addressing mental health in military settings—often serving as the first line of support for soldiers battling addiction, guilt, and spiritual crises. Justin recounts his frontline experiences in places like Ukraine, where moral conflict and the weight of caregiving push even the strongest toward emotional collapse.
The discussion dives deep into the burden of invisible wounds, the isolation caregivers feel, and how storytelling helps veterans and families process grief, identity loss, and the lingering effects of trauma. From spiritual warfare to recovery, this episode is a call to transparency, brotherhood, and the sacred responsibility of serving others while preserving your own soul.
If you’ve served, supported, or struggled with invisible battles—this episode is for you.
Be sure to follow, share, like, and subscribe to Security Halt! on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts to support real conversations that change lives.
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Chapters
00:00 The Role of Chaplains in Mental Health
02:57 Understanding Trauma and Spirituality
05:57 Experiences in Ukraine: A Filmmaker's Perspective
09:00 The Importance of Brotherhood and Love
11:54 Identity and Transition After Service
14:51 Storytelling as a Healing Tool
17:59 The Impact of Love in Valor
21:02 Advocating for Mental Health in the Military
27:01 Brotherhood and Support in Recovery
28:44 The Struggles of Addiction
30:52 The Burden of Guilt in Caregiving
33:30 Finding Peace in Acceptance
35:36 The Role of Storytelling in Healing
39:47 The Call to Action in Conflict
42:45 The Fight Against Evil and the Importance of Family
Instagram: @securityhalt
Tik Tok: @security.halt.pod
LinkedIn: Deny Caballero
Connect with Doug on social media and check out his Website too!
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinroberts/
Website: https://echobravoproductions.com/
Produced by Security Halt Media
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Security Hall podcast .
Let's go the only podcastthat's purpose-built from the
ground up to support you Notjust you, but the wider audience
, everybody.
Authentic, impactful andinsightful conversations that
serve a purpose to help you.
And the quality has gone up.
It's decent and it's hosted byme, danny.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Caballero, justin Roberts, welcome to Security
Hall.
How you doing, man?
Good man, yeah, look anxious todive into your story.
It's, I think, you're the firstchaplain we've had on the show
and your mission is somethingthat is, by and large, one of
the main focal points of what wedo over here.
(00:45):
So today, man, like, let's diveinto it.
How do we, how do we save lives?
How do we keep people fromfalling deeper and deeper into
the pit of despair and thenreach in and bring them out,
roger, that yeah the.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
It's interesting because, like I think that the
chaplains are often offset,they're thought of as just
religion is over there, psych isover here, and then the two
don't coincide and that's oftenan outside perspective, inside
chaplains.
We're constantly working withpsych people.
We're working with counselors,we're working a large bulk of
(01:24):
the counselings is pastoralcounselings by chaplains.
And you're not supposed to knowabout it, you're not supposed
to see it.
You know, because it's aministry of confession, it's a
ministry that is happeningbehind closed doors.
You're not supposed to knowabout it, you're not supposed to
see it.
So that's often the perceptionthat people have.
They're just like they don'thave a whole lot of knowledge on
(01:47):
it because they're not seeingit out in front and uh.
But you know, I was doing aboutsix to seven counselings per
day when I was a chaplain, onaverage, and so that you do have
to have sort of a field craftof knowledge on how to set that
stuff up.
Though it's relationships andthat's one of the unique aspects
that chaplains fulfill isyou're there, you know a good
(02:09):
chaplain is going to be present,a bad chaplain you never see
them because they're never there.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, yeah, I've, uh, I've been lucky.
I've had a few good chaplainsin the soft world.
I never world, I I never.
I don't even remember mychaplains in 82nd because they
weren't around at all whatsoever.
Um, but uh, we had, we had oneamazing chaplain that was always
in the team rooms, alwayscoming by.
Uh, you know, never made itfeel awkward, always made it
(02:40):
feel like he was just there tohang out with the guys and
provided a quick prayer and or aword of wisdom and like dude,
vital aspect of recovery andhealing, and just daily asthma
check Come to find out.
For a lot of us, faith becomesthis thing that is relegated to
the backside of our journey,because we go through some
(03:02):
pretty hellacious trials andthen we realize the importance
of not just cultivating the mindand body but the spirit as well
, because it's tied in, as muchas we want to say that it's not
or we want to push it away likeit's very much, very much part
of your, uh, well-being the mind, body and spirit, those three
pillars.
I'm really good at cultivatingthe mind and the body while
(03:24):
we're in.
You go through a lot.
You go to the gym all the time,but a lot of us don't go to the
spiritual gym, a lot of usdon't go to church.
And like for myself and myjourney, that was like the last
thing that I had to realize,like you got to go back, you got
to figure out that aspect foryou and for me.
It just kind of clicked one day.
It just became that thing thatI was like, okay, this is what
(03:48):
I'm missing and that's a commonthread that I'm finding amongst
a lot of guys.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
It's interesting Like there's different kinds of
trauma and I've noticed, likeyour tier guys, your kinetic
guys, they'll often be very goodat the bombs and the bullets
and then, when it gets into theconsequences of that, those guys
(04:15):
that have denied that spiritualdimension often are trying to
push away death.
They don't want to think aboutit, they want to face it.
So when I was in Ukrainerecently, we went to the front
lines Donbass, mikhailov,kharkiv, up and down the front
and his bloody, his roof brutal.
I was with a Marine and he waslike lockstep, just squared away
(04:38):
, dude, afghan, iraq, the bombsand bullets.
I didn't mess with him.
Went over to Karmator's hospitaland it was a chop shop, I mean,
like I was sleeping in a Bay ofjust nothing.
But you know, broken dudes,bloodied up, bandages, all that
kind of stuff.
The room's completely filledwith it, cause it's just mass
(04:59):
caliber there, you know.
And so we're filming theamputationsputation, amputation,
amputation, amputation and uh,we get to this one part where
this guy had like shrapnel inhis guts and the you know, the
doctor, you know, just showedhim the intestines because he
was pulling out tests, droppingon the ground that broke the
(05:20):
dude.
He was like, no, I'm done, he'slike I'm going back handed in
his body armor.
And I was like, okay, no, I'mdone, he's like I'm going
backhanded in his body armor.
And I was like, okay, that's adifferent aspect of trauma
because he never he never madepeace with the fact that we were
going to a place, that there'sa lot of casualties and we you
know it's a roll of the dice,that's going to be us and making
(05:41):
peace with death.
Sometimes people are pushingthat away.
The strongest point to be at isacceptance of it, making peace
with it and then pushing forwardanyway, and that, I think, is a
(06:03):
spiritual journey.
The guys that are denying thatspiritual dimension are often
trying to get numb, trying topush that aside, trying to find
different ways of getting numbto avoid it.
Getting addicted to work,getting addicted to drugs,
alcohol, whatever, gettingaddicted to something, and
that's just a escapism.
Uh, to not have to face downthese harder dimensions of
(06:26):
reality.
You know, all cognitive issues,all psychosis comes from an
inability to accept reality andthe spiritual dimension that is
a part of our reality because weare going to die.
So what's next?
And how you make peace withthat answer and being at peace
with death with that answer andbeing at peace with death.
(06:53):
That makes you better I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I don't fault that individual that's, uh, that's,
that's something.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, it's, it's fun.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Oh, that's okay you can monday quarterback somebody,
but to be faced with that muchphysical in your face, uh trauma
, like watching somebody justflayed open in the worst day of
their life, like yeah, that's,that's going to affect you
differently and I would imagineyou're not in, you're not there,
it's part of the U?
(07:19):
S forces.
It's not Afghanistan, it's notIraq.
You're there as an individualfree will.
You can choose to's a littledifferent.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
That's a little bit different, and you're also not
there with your brothers.
You draw strength and bravadofrom those around you.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
It's easy to stay there and it gonna, and it's
easy, yeah, yeah.
So what took you to ukraine?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
uh, so that I'm a filmmaker now and the?
Uh.
When the war kicked off, I hada buddy he was an sf dude, uh
who kicked over there to startrescuing kids out of orphanages.
And I was laying in bed aftertalking to him and I had my
daughter in my arms and I waslike she's safe, she's good?
(08:11):
Uh, there's all these kids outthere that aren't and the best
thing that I can offer up isstorytelling film, what I do.
So kicked out there about twomonths after the start of the
war and started got plugged inwith the Ukraine military Uh it
was different, you know, butreally good dudes, you know.
(08:33):
They had really good heartsbehind them and some of them
were really squared away.
And uh, so we kicked out to thefront and gray zone and
Harkivve um up and down thetrenches and don bass make a
life just filming and trying tocapture some of the stories.
And like, there's two differentprojects I was working on.
One was the frontline fighters.
You know the heart behind itand trying to capture, like,
(08:58):
what's really driving them,what's really motivating them to
do what they do.
And then the second washumanitarian heroes.
It was like a tv series.
So the first was, and then thesecond was Humanitarian Heroes.
It was like a TV series.
So the first was a film, thesecond is a TV series focused on
the people who are making adifference on the humanitarian
side.
And so we got a guy who's likeprior service SF engineer and
(09:22):
Ryan and he kicks out there andhe's removing landmines, ryan.
Henriksen yeah, rock starengineer, and ryan, and he kicks
out there and he's removinglandmines, henriksen, yeah yeah,
rockstar great guy yeah, so, um, yeah, there's all these heroes
that people don't know aboutbut should know about.
You could tell me all day aboutthe kardashians you know and
like you might not be able to,but you know, almost everybody
can name them.
(09:42):
But who are the human beingswho are feeding people, doing
the most good on food, doing thebest work when it comes to
medicine, saving lives?
Who are the people who aremoving landmines?
And how can we make them famous?
Absolutely.
So that's what the TV series isabout.
It's called Do Good.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, it's crazy to think that you know a.
I had a friend I didn't evenknow was there and I remember
seeing a magazine and he was onthe cover of it.
Uh, and I'm like holy shit,like the the community is is
very small and to see the amountof people from the soft
(10:21):
community that have.
You know, just a little bit agohe was a college student.
Now he's fully kitted out andusing all the skill sets that he
learned in sf and throughoutthe rest of his military career
to lead recon missions.
And that, to me, is is both.
(10:41):
You have to look at it from theperspective of like fuck I'm.
I'm proud that you're overthere doing your thing, but at
the same time, it's like fuckman, like you deserve to take a
knee, you deserve all the greatthings in life and and yeah, I
certainly want you to to have afamily, have kids, be a father.
That chapter, yeah, have thatchapter, but it feels like we
(11:02):
have a lot of warriors arepicking back up and and
answering that call Um, which isdifficult.
It's difficult to to sit thereand see your friends want to go
back in there and you have toask yourself, like, is this
because you haven't fully let goof the idea, or you process
something?
And there's, there's some guys.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It's like I think you have to have a why.
I mean you.
You raised your right hand fora reason, so you have to have a
wife for that.
And then there has to be thatstill small voice that says,
okay, you need to do this.
And then you listen to that.
Whatever that is that guidesyour life.
Um, I have a series ofobjectives that I'm trying to
(11:44):
achieve and like so for do good.
The concept is wherever it isthe darkest, who is bringing a
light and you bring a camera totell their story?
That's it.
It doesn't matter where it is.
Um, but that was my objective Ido.
When I was over there, I did seethere was the good and the bad,
because you get a lot of crazyactors over there and it was
(12:11):
funny.
It's like it's is I'd play thegame.
Is it a seal or is it as an sfdude?
Uh, because, like, you see themwalking and like, okay, that's
a seal, yeah, and then, like yousee this other guy, it's like
it just looks different, like sf, you know?
Uh, so there's a lot ofamericans who are hanging out
there and it's kind of cowboy.
You know, it's wild west.
You know there's not rules,regulations.
You're kind of just doing yourthing and making your own
connections, kind of workingyour way into stuff.
(12:32):
And then you know, doing yourstuff and I'm an outlier, I'm a
weirdo, but it's like a lot ofamericans will sit and talk and
kind of connect about what'sgoing on, what's the latest?
Um, sometimes guys are gettinglike press tags on their heads,
you know from the wagner groups,and then the intel kind of
funnels stuff out and so it'sweird land.
But uh, for some of those dudesthey can't put down the rifle,
(12:55):
they don't know what else to do.
They haven't done an identityshift.
They never figured out how tobecome something else and so
this is all they have and sothey're repeating it.
But that's, I think the mostdangerous issue that we have is
that identity shift when we getout.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, 100% the purpose and the mission.
After and it's not easy,everybody has to take their turn
going through that.
Everybody, absolutely everyone,whether you're a private or
lieutenant colonel, general,everybody has to go through that
.
Well, maybe not general umthose guys are especially, they
(13:36):
just continue general, they justgo out and become, you know,
work for deloitte and yeah, they, I do meetings with those and I
love those dudes.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
They're still general .
Yeah, they're still operatingwith that concept.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
What about you?
How did you come out of being achaplain and going into
filmmaking?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I always kind of was yeah, my second master's is in
writing, and so storytelling isalways a passion, and so I grew
up doing that.
But I came from small townTexas, didn't know that I could
become a filmmaker.
I mean, we could go intoworking with cows all day, um,
you know I can tell you allabout cow stuff, but, uh, I
(14:24):
didn't know any film directors,people working in film.
But I love movies.
That was a sanctuary for me.
The theater, I would say uh,just as much as the church, and
cause, that was a place where Iwould get lost into stories and
I loved stories.
So I was, I would say, evenmore religious about going to
the theater than I was to thechurch.
I was, I would say, even morereligious about going to the
(14:46):
theater than I was to the church.
And so Cinemark, cinema 6,going there as often as I could,
with people or without, Ididn't care, I loved movies, and
so for me, that was that placefor me to figure stuff out.
I grew up kind of rough lifethat was drug dealer, all that
kind of stuff.
So these sanctuaries for me, um, I got lost in stories and so I
(15:11):
continued working and writing,fell in love with writing in
college, did that, but alsoloved photography and put those
two things together, photographyand writing.
And then you get film in themiddle.
So when I was in Afghanistan,kunar province, um, at that time
very suicidal unit, a lot ofproblems and issues and, uh,
(15:32):
looking to connect as a chaplain.
You know, cause like that canbe the difference between life
and death for some people.
So but I had to earn the right,you know, to be spoken to.
So I had a good first sergeant,randy, the right you know to be
spoken to.
So I had a good first sergeant,randy Wright.
He's later became a commandsergeant major.
He's a legend in the 101st, justan incredible dude.
I learned more about being aminister from him than I ever
(15:53):
did from any pastor or inseminary.
And he was rough, he was foul.
You know he would fish, hookdudes if he was wrestling with
him.
He was a tough dude but youknew he would die for you.
You knew he would do whateverit took to take care of his
dudes.
I'm tearing up, but even whileI'm talking about it, it's that
(16:14):
love that he had.
You know, like he would go towhatever length for his guys.
That is the heart of God.
I have never seen anything morepowerful than that.
And there's a scripture thatsays no greater love has any man
than this, that he's willing tolay down his life for his
friend.
No greater love.
And another scripture says Godis love.
(16:36):
So if we want to understand thesubstance of God, it is that
love, that is the singular,distilled form of God, that love
, and you find it with the dudeswho are willing to die for each
other.
That is the heart of God andit's preached more powerfully
than any sermon in any seminaryanywhere else are, yeah, they're
(17:06):
foul.
You might not trust them withyour sister.
Uh, you know, you got to becareful.
If there's like we do this umreunion every year in the 101st,
and it's like at this reunionthere's there's like they bring
out the cakes, you know there'ssomething's going to get lit on
fire, some sort of fight's goingto break out.
You know, uh, there's going tobe partial nudity, but it's the
greatest dudes I've ever met inmy life because of that love.
(17:28):
And so for with Randy, he becamemy mentor and he said you know,
if you really want to connectwith the dudes, go out with each
platoon at least once on acombat patrol and be near the
front during major operations.
So I was like, ok, yeah, thatmakes sense and that earns the
right to, you know, to chat withthem about the other stuff.
(17:51):
And that did work.
The second I would go on apatrol.
My counseling load with thatgroup would go up and it was the
heavy stuff, the real stuff.
And then my chaplains can'tcarry weapons, so I was given
permission to carry a camera.
So when I wasn't doing chaplainstuff, carrying a litter or
whatever it was, then I wasfilming, capturing the stories,
and the whole goal was to notget in the way, just let the
(18:13):
dudes tell their stories andthen try to craft that into the
best story I could.
Yeah, yeah.
So that was the first film.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Who better to capture than the chaplain I could?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, yeah, so that was the first film.
Yeah, yeah, who better tocapture than the chaplain?
Yeah, that's powerful man.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Thanks, man.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, I didn't.
I, uh, not a thought of thatCause, like I said when I was um
, and there's something to besaid about our, our, our
infantryman, our grunts.
Shout out to all of you that'sour.
I always say my time in 82nd.
That was my undergraduatedegree in warfare.
That's some of the best leaders, some of the best friends I had
(18:53):
Moving on into the SF world.
We all had that same lineage.
Shout out to Flo, anotherparatrooper from 1st Brigade
2504.
There's something to be saidabout paying your dues.
There's anything wrong withbeing an 18x or, you know,
serving in any other capacity,but I always felt more sure than
(19:16):
who I was and my skill set,knowing that I I paid, paid
heavily in blood, sweat andtears in the 82nd first, and
learned the importance of likewhat it means to get your ass
chewed out when you, when youfuck up.
Uh, what it means to buildtrust and cohesion within a
platoon, within a squad and yourteam.
It's important, and being ableto capture that from behind the
(19:42):
lens, that must've beenremarkable.
What, what happened to thatfootage?
What'd you do with it?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
So that became a movie called no Greater Love,
and the singular point about itis behind every act of valor is
love, like valor, love leads tovalor, that brotherhood.
So the more that brotherhood isenhanced, the more that
brotherhood is built up, themore courageous that unit is
going to be.
And when trying to helpcivilians understand what's
(20:10):
beyond the uniform, the heartbehind it that's driving it, so
that way they could understandyou know these people as human
beings, you know not just uh,automatons.
And so put that film together.
It won 11 awards at festivals,uh, screened before white house,
before congress, went outtheatrically and then that kind
(20:33):
of set up.
Everything else I've been doing.
You know we, with this lastfilm I did about chaplains, but
it was like those medal of honorchaplains, those guys that went
beyond the call.
Um, I had one guy who's like upfor sainthood and he got a
medal of honor and made me feellike I was a shammer.
You know like I got.
Okay, he's a, he's a good dude.
(20:55):
I can't compare to that guy.
But you can't compare againstthe saint.
Yeah, literally it's like I'm,like, I'm just hanging.
He was like he was like he waslike he was like he was like he
was like he was like he was likehe was like he was like he was
like he was like he was like hewas like he was like he was like
he was like he was like he waslike he was like he was like he.
It's like Father Capone,freaking rock star, and it's
(21:25):
like that kind of love.
It's like how can you not bethis?
Okay, yeah, he deserves anyaward, accolade that guy can get
, and those are the guys that Ireally loved and aspired to
become a chaplain.
So I wanted those stories told.
So that film Chris Prattexecutive produced that one and
then it premiered at the Vaticanwanted those stories told.
So that that film chris prattexecutive produced that one and
(21:46):
then, uh, it premiered at thevatican and it's part of that
case.
I'm not catholic, so thesainthood doesn't have the same
significance to me, but I knowthat it's a recognition of his
love and I want that to go tothe moon, you know.
And so, uh, he's.
This film was part to helpadvocate on that behalf, and so
(22:08):
that went out to theaters.
It's going to be out on digitalpretty soon.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And then we're going to watch it.
We're, we're Catholics, and mywife uh does a great job of
always, uh, giving me the latestinfo on who's becoming a saint
or who's in the process.
The latest info on who'sbecoming a saint or who's in the
process.
We just had a young man who wasthe first millennial that was,
that became a saint, and Iremember my wife's always,
(22:35):
constantly like quizzing me andbringing stuff up when it comes
to the canonization of oursaints, and I'm just blown away
by how much knowledge she hasabout our faith.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Father first U S military chaplain to become a
saint and it's like, rightfully,rightfully deserved, yeah you
know, yeah, you don't do thesebig things, uh, just because
it's duty.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Like you, there's a there is a bond in your teams
and your platoon, and when shithits the fan, when you have to
do something big, you're right,it's love.
You don't go to look.
When you get down to the meatand potatoes of policy and and
and foreign uh situations, wedon't deploy with this grandiose
(23:15):
idea that we're there to makeafghanistan great again and iraq
great again.
Like, we have a calling as awarrior and we're there in very
you know it's tough situations.
Wherever you align yourselfpolitically, it's difficult, but
the guys in the rank and file,the guys there boots on the
ground, they are there for eachother.
(23:35):
End of the day, that's themission.
Get the boys home.
Yeah, everybody comes home.
And you have to sell that andyou have to mean that with all
your heart, we're all cominghome.
And you have to sell that andyou have to mean that with all
your heart, we're all cominghome.
Unfortunately, we know thatthat's not always certain, but
damn it if we're not going totry no, then I think that is the
strongest force in the usmilitary.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
It's like that, that brotherhood, sisterhood, um, and
kind of going back onto themental health side is like if we
want to fix the problems thatwe're facing, we have to give
that more space and attention,like that is our, our path, that
is our most singular strengthand it is also our path to
(24:17):
healing.
But there has to be that typeof transparency in the unit that
you can talk about yourproblems and issues and it has
to be an intentionalconversation, you know know,
because, like most dudes, wouldrather die than look weak,
literally, oh yeah I know, Iknow from experience that's the
the hardest thing to admit.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
The hardest thing you can do that's also the most
freeing and most powerful thingis to be vulnerable.
But how do you do that whenyou're living amongst legends,
where you, when you're servingamongst men that are, you know,
at the, the highest echelon,they're the strongest, the
fittest, the best, the best ofthe best, and they're, you know,
(24:57):
you're sitting there wonderingto yourself like how, the how do
I ever admit that I am dealingwith something that I'm ashamed
of, that I can't explain, that Ihave no ability to verbally
explain to anybody or want to.
How do I continue walkingamongst them?
Yeah, that's what a lot of usmen deal with, and it's so hard
(25:19):
to advocate for vulnerability,for taking a knee.
It's difficult because guysjust want to keep going.
But sooner or later and this iswhat I say for the GWAT era
veterans you're going to meetthis obstacle.
We all have to address thisissue.
We all have to sit down and dothe work.
(25:39):
It's going to come to us.
Everybody, everybody that seeswarfare from a first-person view
in life.
Well, nowadays, with the adventof the internet, we can all get
a view of it from what's goingon in a ukraine, and that does
leave a mark.
But for our veterans, foreverything that you've done and
everything that you've gonethrough, at some point you got
to talk about it and that'sdifficult and it's.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
This is uh, if you look at like the degrees of
emotional growth orindividuation it's.
And so we're talking aboutoptimizing, like how to become
the ultimate person, theultimate version of ourselves,
right, and you got the differentdimensions physical, spiritual,
emotional, all this stuff.
(26:21):
As you know, war fighters, theyoften master the physical to a
far degree.
They're extreme and they'reprofessional field craft.
They become excellent warriors.
But to become that full person,full leader, fully connected as
(26:46):
a unit, there has to be thattransparency, you know, because
it's not like it's not there andit's not like every single
individual has these differentstruggles and issues.
They're all different, they'reall like personally crafted for
you.
You know, your fuck ups areyour fuck ups, you know, and
that has to be dealt with.
Um, but it is best dealt withas a team, just like everything
(27:07):
else.
Like you have to have theseother people who are looking at
you saying, okay, I see thisside, I see that.
Okay, you know, it takes thatother person to help you extract
those things, find solutionsthat you don't have, and
sometimes you have solutionsthey don't have, and vice versa.
(27:30):
I never, I was never just theminister and it was always like
pouring down in this way.
That don't function with thatego.
It was always this it's likeI'm coming to you as a friend
and that's it.
I get to be the Ferris Bueller,like you know.
Just, I'm here to fix yourproblems and I don't have a gun,
but I'm going to carrysomething, right.
And so it's that type ofteamwork to to take each other
(27:53):
to that next level, whateverthat is.
And so if you're dealing withan addiction, it's because
you're covering something up,and so it's going to have to
take a brother to say hey, man,what are you covering up?
What are you trying to hidefrom?
You're going too deep into thebottle and it's time to come out
, and a real brother will dothat.
(28:13):
So with that unit, that's whatwe focused on.
The one that was suicidal wasfocusing on the brotherhood.
It was mostly dudes, and how dowe have those intentional
conversations without judgment?
And it worked, it was reallyeffective, and it wasn't me who
fixed stuff, it was thebrotherhood that fixed it, and I
(28:34):
was amazed by that.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
But yeah yeah, it's, addiction is a tough one, right
as much as we don't want to uhadmit it, that individual still
ultimately in charge of gettinghimself out of that prison, and
we we've lost a lot of friendson the show that uh didn't want
(29:00):
to get help.
And it's the individual has tomake that choice, to be
vulnerable and be willing, bewilling participant in that
recovery process.
And that's the part that sucks,because you can walk, you can
walk through.
I mean, we've had some goodfriends that you know.
We got the treatment centers,we got them to a good place and
(29:22):
then they relapse and then ityou'll be amazed at what people
can hide and they can get reallygood at wearing that mask again
.
And that's the.
Out of all the things that Ihave, uh, I've seen and lost
friends for addiction is thehardest one to accept that you
(29:43):
sometimes you can't have a sayyeah, a lot of times that the
alcohol or the, the pilladdiction is something that can
easily come right back andthat's a.
That's a tough fight, that's atough loss.
It's like there's no, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
No, I was just thinking it's like the uh, that
um, I that's like I've nevertried alcohol, never tried
cigarettes, because my dad was adrug dealer and because of all
that stuff that I saw, I waslike whoa, I can't.
I can't because, like I, I waslike so afraid, like deathly
afraid.
(30:22):
It wasn't out of righteousnessor like trying to be anything.
It's like deathly afraid, itwasn't out of righteousness or
like trying to be anything.
It's like deathly afraid ofthat road.
Yeah, because I saw and thesame thing, like I've had too
many friends went down that roadand got lost and um, didn't
come back, and that one of thethings I had to deal with.
(30:45):
It was was like a Messiahcomplex when I first became a
chaplain, thinking I could savepeople.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, yeah, no, I, honestly, I and that's for you.
I was like you're the chosenone no, I think, anybody that's
an advocate or a peer-to-peersupport or somebody that's
championing a cause.
After they've gotten better, Iknow I felt like I could just
(31:10):
bring everybody along thisrecovery and sometimes the last
thing somebody wants to hear isthat you have a resource for
them, and they won't always bepolite about it.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
No, some people aren't ready and that's hard no,
it's like the, you just figureout where a person's at and then
just like love them there, andand then it's like you, just
that that's the only thing Icould do.
You know, like, um, I kind ofhit my wall because, um, I had
(31:43):
this one dude who's like'm goingto talk to you.
It was like on a Friday and Ialready had a counseling session
booked and I didn't want todrop off that other dude.
So I was like, oh man, that'slike can I hit you up on Monday?
Are you going to be okay?
And he's like yeah, I'm goingto be okay.
So, of course, he tries to killhimself on Saturday.
(32:06):
And I was like suicide, suicide,suicide, like all these
problems, and I wasn't goodenough to fix it.
I wasn't enough.
And so I was like, at FortCampbell, pulled into this car
wash area and I'm heaving.
You know, like that's like snotand tears, like everything
coming out of me, like God, whywon't you fix this, why won't
(32:28):
you let me fix this?
Why can't I be on top of this?
And, um, it was a couple of dayslater that I had a dude,
another chaplain, buddy youcalled me out on that and he's
like you think you're Jesus.
You think you're God, are not.
It's like you can only lovethem where they're at, nothing
(32:48):
more, and it's going to be theirchoice, and you also have to
still love them when they makethe wrong one.
I was like, oh, that's hard.
I was like a punch in the gutbecause, like I know, if you're
doing something self-destructivelike want to choke you, you
know.
But I was like, oh, it's like,but how jacked up am I?
(33:09):
You know, and God still lovesme.
And so I just kind of had tobecome at peace with that.
And that made it so that took ahuge, like 50 pounds out of my
rucksack and I was like, okay,we're just people.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
That's a painful lesson.
I think our caregivers, oursupport networks are out there A
lot of people if you'relistening, and that's an aha
moment for you.
Trust me, you feel guilty whenyou don't answer that 2 am call
because you just went to bedafter getting somebody else
(33:50):
plugged into a resource.
Like you can't save everybody,you can't, you can't be
everything for everyone all thetime, all at once.
It's impossible.
You gotta sleep, you gotta eat,you gotta take care of yourself
or you're going to fall down.
That seems that downward spiraland, just like you said, like
you're not Jesus, You're not,you're not the most powerful
(34:13):
being.
You can't, you're not going tomake them not do something.
As much as it hurts to acceptthat you cannot change
somebody's mind, you can bethere, you can love them, you
can support them, you can givethem the best advice, you can
connect them to resources, youcan do the Googling for them,
you can literally drive them tothat treatment center.
(34:34):
But at the end of the day, theyhave autonomy.
They have a choice to make forthemselves.
And that's the hardest thing.
When your friend doesn't makethat choice that you want them
to make, and you still gottalove them and you gotta mourn
them now because they're nothere.
That's what sucks, that's when,that's then it's hard to accept
and you gotta go back and yougotta, you gotta, pray about it.
(34:56):
You gotta understand that you,you don't have control.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
You don't have control that's painful, and just
loving the broken, even if theymight not ever change yeah,
that gets.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, that, that, that, uh, that hits close to
that, hits so damn close to home.
We lost another friend and uh,three of us all going through
our own process of trying tounderstand, like fuck, like what
more could you do?
Like, you know that you werealways there, you know that you,
you provide a peer to peersupport.
(35:33):
You, you listened every singletime, connected them with jobs,
you got them out of badsituations, but ultimately they
made a choice.
Yeah, in this part of your lifesitting here, how do you
continue fighting and advocating?
Not being part of theorganization, not having that
(35:55):
seat within the organization asthe chaplain?
How do you go about it now?
Speaker 3 (36:03):
That's a good question.
It's still pretty much the samebecause my circles are always
filled with people.
I still have people reachingout to me, so my job hasn't
changed as much.
The battle rhythm has changed.
I'm spending more time workingon films, writing storytelling.
But the ministry of Jesus waspretty simple in its design.
(36:26):
He walked around doing miracles, helping people.
He was always focused onmeeting the need, helping
somebody with their problem.
Then he would share a story andit's so funny because, like
they would, even the apostlesconfronted him like why do you
speak so much?
In parables?
It got to the point that theguy was always speaking in so
many stories.
They're like dude, like why allthe stories?
(36:47):
But that is how people get stuff, that is how people.
You could give them aPowerPoint presentation.
It means nothing.
You know, if you tell them astory, it's going to.
It has a possibility of sinkingin on multiple levels and
changing their whole paradigm.
So not, this wasn't intentional.
I had this aha moment later,but I was like the way he went
(37:10):
about it is somewhat how I'vetried to structure.
You know the way I'm goingabout it, just because I'm a
storyteller anyways, and um, sothat is, I can reach more people
that way.
Now it's not if I could stillbe a battalion chaplain.
I loved it, like that.
That was amazing.
You know, nine to five, notactually it was all hours, but
(37:35):
having that, I loved that, thatjob, you know, cause you're just
hanging with the dudes fixingproblems and you got to see
those.
You know a lot of those thingsfixed and people growing and
people growing, and that wasincredible.
But now just the way that mylife has gone, it's now
(38:01):
storytelling.
It's uh trying to reach abroader audience and like the
whole vision of like no greaterlove was that one dude who was
out in the back 40, he's notgoing to talk to his friends,
he's not going to talk to hiswife or anybody else and he's
been through too much stuff andhe's, he's at the end and I
wanted to reach him.
I wanted the whole film to bedesigned for him, that he would
(38:22):
watch it, he would see dudeslike himself who went through
that same journey, and then hereis how they found hope.
So that's, I designed the wholestory for that one dude and, um
, so that's the way I'm goingforward.
It's like using filmstorytelling to reach people, uh
(38:43):
, reach wide audiences, but alsothat one person that we might
not be able to reach, and withthe hope of giving them hope.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, that's perfect.
That's a.
That's the way to go about it.
Just speak to that one personthat's in need.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
So, but I'm also lucky too.
It's like I'm still getting tohang out with a lot of combat
veterans in the military.
It's just the way life has gone.
So still, you know, stillfinding myself sleeping next to
a javelin ever so often, youknow, like listening to the
(39:18):
dudes having snoring contests,you know, in a smelly, smelly
place and, um, yeah, it's, it's,uh.
It's been an interestingjourney.
So it still still feels likeI'm in but I'm out, but I'm in,
and it's interesting to see whatthis life might take me next
too, because we've got futureconflicts going on.
(39:39):
So if I keep on telling storiesabout conflicts, then I might
find myself out there.
Yeah, I hope not.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I hope.
Yeah, man, I was foolish tothink that we would be able to
take a knee.
No, our generation of guyswould finally be able to listen
to shows like this, to promotethe idea that your greatest,
greatest calling is to be afather, to be a husband, to help
(40:07):
coach and mentor the nextgeneration.
That's what arguably made usgreat as a nation.
We have fathers that werepresent.
We had people that wereinvolved in their community.
We're so against that thesedays, we think that these spaces
are not for us, that somebodyelse will figure it out,
somebody else will take care ofit.
No, the person that needs totake care of it is you.
(40:28):
You, the veteran that's beenmissing for 20-plus years.
That's why I'm constantlyadvocating, but I'm seeing the
world continue to become a morecomplex hotbed of conflict, and
more men and women are going tofind themselves needed in these
spaces Are you going?
to find yourself in Ukraineanytime soon, or are you done
with that?
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah, I'll go back.
I still have stuff I've got tofinish over there.
I was going to say a sayingpopped in my head that I came up
with a long time ago.
But the two most consistentsounds in human history are the
beat of the heart and the drumsof war, and it would be weird if
we didn't have another war.
Just looking at human history.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I'm all about weird man.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
I'm all about weird.
That would be a phenomenonthat's not likely.
I'm all about weird man, I'mall about weird.
That would be a phenomenonthat's not likely and it's
tragic that we're that way.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, it just needs to end it really, truly does.
The conflict in Ukraine needsto end.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Guys right now out in burma, you know, fighting
beside that revolution, doinggood stuff.
There's actually a chaplain outthere that put together the
free burma rangers, sf.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah yeah, I'm trying to try to contact with those
guys that story's amazing.
That story's amazing yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
So I think, like all around the world this, there's a
lot of good dudes who arefighting for freedom, who are
fighting, uh, against evil.
They just took the skills andtraits that they had and they
started applying it against theenemy and, um, so that's where
my heart's at like now.
But you know what, balancingfamily as well, that's hard,
(42:14):
it's no joke.
And the whole point of thefirst film is explain to my
daughter why this was important,and I even recorded her.
And not a whole lot, not likean interview or anything like
that, it's a letter.
The whole film is structured asa letter from a father to a
daughter, uh, from the frontlines, in the trench, and I'm
(42:36):
literally talking, wow, in thetrench.
Why is this important?
And it's not just important,like, for ukraine and me being
out in ukraine, but everysoldier who serves, every father
who's a soldier, you know.
You know why is this important?
And it comes down to we have tofight against these forces that
(42:57):
are trying to craft an evilworld.
It's not a better time, we'renot living in safer times.
The struggle is very real andit's insidious and everywhere,
(43:21):
creeping into our democracy,creeping into every nation, this
fight for dictatorships andcontrol versus empowerment and
justice and democracy, and so Isee that conflict going on and
good men have to rise up andthey have to fight.
And it's needed Because thesecond that they stop, that's
when evil starts to win.
And so I'm interested to seehow these future conflicts come
up, because I see that the drumbeats of war are starting to
(43:41):
escalate.
Yeah, oh yeah yeah, crescendo.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, anytime you see defense tech companies popping
up every four to five minutes,yeah, shout out to andreal,
because those, those ads arelike a marvel movie they're
about to.
That might be stock worthbuying here soon oh yeah, if
you're not investing in uhandreal, uh palantir um a few
(44:07):
others um you, they're gonna befine.
Yeah, you need to.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
That's job security right there.
Yeah, I might kick out the softweek too.
I went there a couple of yearsago and I got asked to come back
.
But yeah, it's interestingwhat's around the corner, and
then kind of deciding like howdo we want to weather this tempo
(44:33):
?
I think the calling to go outis a calling and the calling to
not go out is a calling.
It's this.
The worst thing that we face isfalse guilt, yeah, and so it's
like there's a I call it thetotem pole of guilt.
And you have a civilian.
I've had plumbers and doctorsand lawyers explain to me why
(44:55):
they didn't become a soldier,but I've never explained to a
plumber, doctor or lawyer why Ididn't become a plumber, doctor
or lawyer, never did.
And it's like I never went to aplumber.
Oh, I was thinking about doingthat in college.
You know I was maybe oneplumber, yeah, so you know it's.
It's, I was maybe one word.
Yeah, so it's, it's neverhappened and so but then on the
(45:16):
next level you have guys wholike serve, like in cold war or
stuff like that.
They never went over, never hadanything going on, and they say
like, hey, yeah, I, I didn'texperience that.
You have the guys who deploy,but they never sure heard shots
fired in anger.
They tell you that you hearthose guys shot, fired an egg,
(45:39):
but they just see the intensestuff, the regular stuff, like
you did, you know.
They'll tell you that.
And then you have up that totempole of guilt.
You go and you've got guys whonever got wounded but they had a
buddy did.
Maybe they should have beenthere for them, maybe they
should have done more.
Why didn't they do more?
Ooh, guilt.
And then I even have a buddyLinscog.
He was a medic.
He charged out, was fixing adude and then took a bullet
(46:01):
above his side plate, bouncedaround his body.
He knew he was dying and evenas he was dying he was telling
guys how to fix themselves.
And then his last words wereI'm sorry, I couldn't do more.
Like he was at every singleBible study Amazing, amazing
dude.
But his last words were I'msorry, I couldn't do more.
(46:23):
And so you on that totem pole,every level, you have this guilt
.
Even if you're dying, you stillfeel like you wish you could
have done more.
Even if you're dying, you stillfeel like you wish you could
have done more.
And so none of us are free fromit.
We just have to accept thatit's false guilt.
We don't have to own it, itdoesn't have to sit in our
(46:44):
rucksack, we have to let it go,to be free.
And I even had a buddy whowrote a suicide note to his wife
and two daughters because hefelt so guilty.
He wasn't there and there's noway he would have been there for
one of his guys, one of hisfriends.
But his friend died and hewasn't there and like his friend
would be, like man can'tbelieve you weren't freaking
there for me.
You know, like you would have,like that that angst.
The dead don't want us to likestop living our life.
(47:06):
No, they want us to moveforward and let go of the guilt.
So that's the totem pole ofguilt and it's like we find
everybody on it, but we have tolet it go, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
That's, um, one of the most important things that
we can take away from thisepisode.
You gotta let go of it.
Yeah, they want you to live.
They want you to thrive.
They don't want you sittinghere surviving.
They want you to live.
They want you to thrive.
They don't want you sittinghere surviving.
It's just, you want to reallymake it up to them.
Have an amazing life.
You really want them to lookdown and be happy, live a
(47:40):
fucking epic life.
You owe it to them Live great.
You have to do it, Even whenyou don't want to, because they
need you to.
They're looking down.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Justin, I can't take you.
They would want you to raiseyour kids, live your life, enjoy
it, you know cherish everymoment yeah, justin, thank you
for being here today, brother, Ireally appreciate this.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
People want to connect with you or look at your
films or see your past work.
Where can they go?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yeah, it's echobraboproductionscom, that's
Echo Bravo Productions andthat's where most of my projects
are at right now, and I'm onInstagram, social media, all
that kind of stuff, linkedin, soI'm easy enough to find.
But I'm not like a social mediainfluencer or anything like
that, I'm just a filmmaker justa filmmaker, no big deal you're
too humble, sir I think there'ssome people online like socially
(48:40):
, uh, social media extroverted,yeah, like a social media
introvert.
You know, I do a movie and I Iget away yeah, well, for guys
listening, go ahead and pauseright now.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Go to the episode description, click all those
links and send this man aLinkedIn friend request or
Instagram friend request andmake him be social on there and
be active so you can promote hiswork and his films.
Justin, I can't wait to haveyou back on so we can dive more
and go deeper into faith and thespirit and tap into your
journey.
So I think we need to have Ineed to have more talks with
(49:15):
chaplains.
I think it's important toreally elevate that last pillar
that, for all of us, just seemsto have fallen by the wayside.
I don't know if it's culture, Idon't know if it's the way
we're raised.
We push away the faith.
But I'm living proof that youcan find your way back to God,
back to your religion.
You don't have to be a Catholiclike me.
I certainly do wish you would.
But, yeah, find your own path,find your own religion.
(49:37):
I'm Danny Caballero, thank youfor tuning in and we'll see you
all next time.
Till then, take care.
Thanks for tuning in and don'tforget to like, follow, share,
subscribe and review us on yourfavorite podcast platform.
If you want to support us, headon over to buymeacoffeecom
forward slash SecHawk podcastand buy us a coffee.
(49:57):
Connect with us on Instagram, xor TikTok and share your
thoughts or questions abouttoday's episode.
You can also visitsecurityhawkcom for exclusive
content, resources and updatesand remember we get through this
together.
If you're still listening, theepisode's over.
Yeah, there's no more Tune intomorrow or next week.
(50:19):
Thank you.
Security Hall podcast .
Let's go the only podcastthat's purpose-built from the
ground up to support you Notjust you, but the wider audience
, everybody.
Authentic, impactful andinsightful conversations that
serve a purpose to help you.
And the quality has gone up.
It's decent and it's hosted byme, danny.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Caballero, justin Roberts, welcome to Security
Hall.
How you doing, man?
Good man, yeah, look anxious todive into your story.
It's, I think, you're the firstchaplain we've had on the show
and your mission is somethingthat is, by and large, one of
the main focal points of what wedo over here.
(00:45):
So today, man, like, let's diveinto it.
How do we, how do we save lives?
How do we keep people fromfalling deeper and deeper into
the pit of despair and thenreach in and bring them out,
roger, that yeah the.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
It's interesting because, like I think that the
chaplains are often offset,they're thought of as just
religion is over there, psych isover here, and then the two
don't coincide and that's oftenan outside perspective, inside
chaplains.
We're constantly working withpsych people.
We're working with counselors,we're working a large bulk of
(01:24):
the counselings is pastoralcounselings by chaplains.
And you're not supposed to knowabout it, you're not supposed
to see it.
You know, because it's aministry of confession, it's a
ministry that is happeningbehind closed doors.
You're not supposed to knowabout it, you're not supposed to
see it.
So that's often the perceptionthat people have.
They're just like they don'thave a whole lot of knowledge on
(01:47):
it because they're not seeingit out in front and uh.
But you know, I was doing aboutsix to seven counselings per
day when I was a chaplain, onaverage, and so that you do have
to have sort of a field craftof knowledge on how to set that
stuff up.
Though it's relationships andthat's one of the unique aspects
that chaplains fulfill isyou're there, you know a good
(02:09):
chaplain is going to be present,a bad chaplain you never see
them because they're never there.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, yeah, I've, uh, I've been lucky.
I've had a few good chaplainsin the soft world.
I never world, I I never.
I don't even remember mychaplains in 82nd because they
weren't around at all whatsoever.
Um, but uh, we had, we had oneamazing chaplain that was always
in the team rooms, alwayscoming by.
Uh, you know, never made itfeel awkward, always made it
(02:40):
feel like he was just there tohang out with the guys and
provided a quick prayer and or aword of wisdom and like dude,
vital aspect of recovery andhealing, and just daily asthma
check Come to find out.
For a lot of us, faith becomesthis thing that is relegated to
the backside of our journey,because we go through some
(03:02):
pretty hellacious trials andthen we realize the importance
of not just cultivating the mindand body but the spirit as well
, because it's tied in, as muchas we want to say that it's not
or we want to push it away likeit's very much, very much part
of your, uh, well-being the mind, body and spirit, those three
pillars.
I'm really good at cultivatingthe mind and the body while
(03:24):
we're in.
You go through a lot.
You go to the gym all the time,but a lot of us don't go to the
spiritual gym, a lot of usdon't go to church.
And like for myself and myjourney, that was like the last
thing that I had to realize,like you got to go back, you got
to figure out that aspect foryou and for me.
It just kind of clicked one day.
It just became that thing thatI was like, okay, this is what
(03:48):
I'm missing and that's a commonthread that I'm finding amongst
a lot of guys.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
It's interesting Like there's different kinds of
trauma and I've noticed, likeyour tier guys, your kinetic
guys, they'll often be very goodat the bombs and the bullets
and then, when it gets into theconsequences of that, those guys
(04:15):
that have denied that spiritualdimension often are trying to
push away death.
They don't want to think aboutit, they want to face it.
So when I was in Ukrainerecently, we went to the front
lines Donbass, mikhailov,kharkiv, up and down the front
and his bloody, his roof brutal.
I was with a Marine and he waslike lockstep, just squared away
(04:38):
, dude, afghan, iraq, the bombsand bullets.
I didn't mess with him.
Went over to Karmator's hospitaland it was a chop shop, I mean,
like I was sleeping in a Bay ofjust nothing.
But you know, broken dudes,bloodied up, bandages, all that
kind of stuff.
The room's completely filledwith it, cause it's just mass
(04:59):
caliber there, you know.
And so we're filming theamputationsputation, amputation,
amputation, amputation and uh,we get to this one part where
this guy had like shrapnel inhis guts and the you know, the
doctor, you know, just showedhim the intestines because he
was pulling out tests, droppingon the ground that broke the
(05:20):
dude.
He was like, no, I'm done, he'slike I'm going back handed in
his body armor.
And I was like, okay, no, I'mdone, he's like I'm going
backhanded in his body armor.
And I was like, okay, that's adifferent aspect of trauma
because he never he never madepeace with the fact that we were
going to a place, that there'sa lot of casualties and we you
know it's a roll of the dice,that's going to be us and making
(05:41):
peace with death.
Sometimes people are pushingthat away.
The strongest point to be at isacceptance of it, making peace
with it and then pushing forwardanyway, and that, I think, is a
(06:03):
spiritual journey.
The guys that are denying thatspiritual dimension are often
trying to get numb, trying topush that aside, trying to find
different ways of getting numbto avoid it.
Getting addicted to work,getting addicted to drugs,
alcohol, whatever, gettingaddicted to something, and
that's just a escapism.
Uh, to not have to face downthese harder dimensions of
(06:26):
reality.
You know, all cognitive issues,all psychosis comes from an
inability to accept reality andthe spiritual dimension that is
a part of our reality because weare going to die.
So what's next?
And how you make peace withthat answer and being at peace
with death with that answer andbeing at peace with death.
(06:53):
That makes you better I don't.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I don't fault that individual that's, uh, that's,
that's something.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, it's, it's fun.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Oh, that's okay you can monday quarterback somebody,
but to be faced with that muchphysical in your face, uh trauma
, like watching somebody justflayed open in the worst day of
their life, like yeah, that's,that's going to affect you
differently and I would imagineyou're not in, you're not there,
it's part of the U?
(07:19):
S forces.
It's not Afghanistan, it's notIraq.
You're there as an individualfree will.
You can choose to's a littledifferent.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
That's a little bit different, and you're also not
there with your brothers.
You draw strength and bravadofrom those around you.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
It's easy to stay there and it gonna, and it's
easy, yeah, yeah.
So what took you to ukraine?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
uh, so that I'm a filmmaker now and the?
Uh.
When the war kicked off, I hada buddy he was an sf dude, uh
who kicked over there to startrescuing kids out of orphanages.
And I was laying in bed aftertalking to him and I had my
daughter in my arms and I waslike she's safe, she's good?
(08:11):
Uh, there's all these kids outthere that aren't and the best
thing that I can offer up isstorytelling film, what I do.
So kicked out there about twomonths after the start of the
war and started got plugged inwith the Ukraine military Uh it
was different, you know, butreally good dudes, you know.
(08:33):
They had really good heartsbehind them and some of them
were really squared away.
And uh, so we kicked out to thefront and gray zone and
Harkivve um up and down thetrenches and don bass make a
life just filming and trying tocapture some of the stories.
And like, there's two differentprojects I was working on.
One was the frontline fighters.
You know the heart behind itand trying to capture, like,
(08:58):
what's really driving them,what's really motivating them to
do what they do.
And then the second washumanitarian heroes.
It was like a tv series.
So the first was, and then thesecond was Humanitarian Heroes.
It was like a TV series.
So the first was a film, thesecond is a TV series focused on
the people who are making adifference on the humanitarian
side.
And so we got a guy who's likeprior service SF engineer and
(09:22):
Ryan and he kicks out there andhe's removing landmines, ryan.
Henriksen yeah, rock starengineer, and ryan, and he kicks
out there and he's removinglandmines, henriksen, yeah yeah,
rockstar great guy yeah, so, um, yeah, there's all these heroes
that people don't know aboutbut should know about.
You could tell me all day aboutthe kardashians you know and
like you might not be able to,but you know, almost everybody
can name them.
(09:42):
But who are the human beingswho are feeding people, doing
the most good on food, doing thebest work when it comes to
medicine, saving lives?
Who are the people who aremoving landmines?
And how can we make them famous?
Absolutely.
So that's what the TV series isabout.
It's called Do Good.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, it's crazy to think that you know a.
I had a friend I didn't evenknow was there and I remember
seeing a magazine and he was onthe cover of it.
Uh, and I'm like holy shit,like the the community is is
very small and to see the amountof people from the soft
(10:21):
community that have.
You know, just a little bit agohe was a college student.
Now he's fully kitted out andusing all the skill sets that he
learned in sf and throughoutthe rest of his military career
to lead recon missions.
And that, to me, is is both.
(10:41):
You have to look at it from theperspective of like fuck I'm.
I'm proud that you're overthere doing your thing, but at
the same time, it's like fuckman, like you deserve to take a
knee, you deserve all the greatthings in life and and yeah, I
certainly want you to to have afamily, have kids, be a father.
That chapter, yeah, have thatchapter, but it feels like we
(11:02):
have a lot of warriors arepicking back up and and
answering that call Um, which isdifficult.
It's difficult to to sit thereand see your friends want to go
back in there and you have toask yourself, like, is this
because you haven't fully let goof the idea, or you process
something?
And there's, there's some guys.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
It's like I think you have to have a why.
I mean you.
You raised your right hand fora reason, so you have to have a
wife for that.
And then there has to be thatstill small voice that says,
okay, you need to do this.
And then you listen to that.
Whatever that is that guidesyour life.
Um, I have a series ofobjectives that I'm trying to
(11:44):
achieve and like so for do good.
The concept is wherever it isthe darkest, who is bringing a
light and you bring a camera totell their story?
That's it.
It doesn't matter where it is.
Um, but that was my objective Ido.
When I was over there, I did seethere was the good and the bad,
because you get a lot of crazyactors over there and it was
(12:11):
funny.
It's like it's is I'd play thegame.
Is it a seal or is it as an sfdude?
Uh, because, like, you see themwalking and like, okay, that's
a seal, yeah, and then, like yousee this other guy, it's like
it just looks different, like sf, you know?
Uh, so there's a lot ofamericans who are hanging out
there and it's kind of cowboy.
You know, it's wild west.
You know there's not rules,regulations.
You're kind of just doing yourthing and making your own
connections, kind of workingyour way into stuff.
(12:32):
And then you know, doing yourstuff and I'm an outlier, I'm a
weirdo, but it's like a lot ofamericans will sit and talk and
kind of connect about what'sgoing on, what's the latest?
Um, sometimes guys are gettinglike press tags on their heads,
you know from the wagner groups,and then the intel kind of
funnels stuff out and so it'sweird land.
But uh, for some of those dudesthey can't put down the rifle,
(12:55):
they don't know what else to do.
They haven't done an identityshift.
They never figured out how tobecome something else and so
this is all they have and sothey're repeating it.
But that's, I think the mostdangerous issue that we have is
that identity shift when we getout.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, 100% the purpose and the mission.
After and it's not easy,everybody has to take their turn
going through that.
Everybody, absolutely everyone,whether you're a private or
lieutenant colonel, general,everybody has to go through that
.
Well, maybe not general umthose guys are especially, they
(13:36):
just continue general, they justgo out and become, you know,
work for deloitte and yeah, they, I do meetings with those and I
love those dudes.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
They're still general .
Yeah, they're still operatingwith that concept.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
What about you?
How did you come out of being achaplain and going into
filmmaking?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I always kind of was yeah, my second master's is in
writing, and so storytelling isalways a passion, and so I grew
up doing that.
But I came from small townTexas, didn't know that I could
become a filmmaker.
I mean, we could go intoworking with cows all day, um,
you know I can tell you allabout cow stuff, but, uh, I
(14:24):
didn't know any film directors,people working in film.
But I love movies.
That was a sanctuary for me.
The theater, I would say uh,just as much as the church, and
cause, that was a place where Iwould get lost into stories and
I loved stories.
So I was, I would say, evenmore religious about going to
the theater than I was to thechurch.
I was, I would say, even morereligious about going to the
(14:46):
theater than I was to the church.
And so Cinemark, cinema 6,going there as often as I could,
with people or without, Ididn't care, I loved movies, and
so for me, that was that placefor me to figure stuff out.
I grew up kind of rough lifethat was drug dealer, all that
kind of stuff.
So these sanctuaries for me, um, I got lost in stories and so I
(15:11):
continued working and writing,fell in love with writing in
college, did that, but alsoloved photography and put those
two things together, photographyand writing.
And then you get film in themiddle.
So when I was in Afghanistan,kunar province, um, at that time
very suicidal unit, a lot ofproblems and issues and, uh,
(15:32):
looking to connect as a chaplain.
You know, cause like that canbe the difference between life
and death for some people.
So but I had to earn the right,you know, to be spoken to.
So I had a good first sergeant,randy, the right you know to be
spoken to.
So I had a good first sergeant,randy Wright.
He's later became a commandsergeant major.
He's a legend in the 101st, justan incredible dude.
I learned more about being aminister from him than I ever
(15:53):
did from any pastor or inseminary.
And he was rough, he was foul.
You know he would fish, hookdudes if he was wrestling with
him.
He was a tough dude but youknew he would die for you.
You knew he would do whateverit took to take care of his
dudes.
I'm tearing up, but even whileI'm talking about it, it's that
(16:14):
love that he had.
You know, like he would go towhatever length for his guys.
That is the heart of God.
I have never seen anything morepowerful than that.
And there's a scripture thatsays no greater love has any man
than this, that he's willing tolay down his life for his
friend.
No greater love.
And another scripture says Godis love.
(16:36):
So if we want to understand thesubstance of God, it is that
love, that is the singular,distilled form of God, that love
, and you find it with the dudeswho are willing to die for each
other.
That is the heart of God andit's preached more powerfully
than any sermon in any seminaryanywhere else are, yeah, they're
(17:06):
foul.
You might not trust them withyour sister.
Uh, you know, you got to becareful.
If there's like we do this umreunion every year in the 101st,
and it's like at this reunionthere's there's like they bring
out the cakes, you know there'ssomething's going to get lit on
fire, some sort of fight's goingto break out.
You know, uh, there's going tobe partial nudity, but it's the
greatest dudes I've ever met inmy life because of that love.
(17:28):
And so for with Randy, he becamemy mentor and he said you know,
if you really want to connectwith the dudes, go out with each
platoon at least once on acombat patrol and be near the
front during major operations.
So I was like, ok, yeah, thatmakes sense and that earns the
right to, you know, to chat withthem about the other stuff.
(17:51):
And that did work.
The second I would go on apatrol.
My counseling load with thatgroup would go up and it was the
heavy stuff, the real stuff.
And then my chaplains can'tcarry weapons, so I was given
permission to carry a camera.
So when I wasn't doing chaplainstuff, carrying a litter or
whatever it was, then I wasfilming, capturing the stories,
and the whole goal was to notget in the way, just let the
(18:13):
dudes tell their stories andthen try to craft that into the
best story I could.
Yeah, yeah.
So that was the first film.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Who better to capture than the chaplain I could?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, yeah, so that was the first film.
Yeah, yeah, who better tocapture than the chaplain?
Yeah, that's powerful man.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Thanks, man.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, I didn't.
I, uh, not a thought of thatCause, like I said when I was um
, and there's something to besaid about our, our, our
infantryman, our grunts.
Shout out to all of you that'sour.
I always say my time in 82nd.
That was my undergraduatedegree in warfare.
That's some of the best leaders, some of the best friends I had
(18:53):
Moving on into the SF world.
We all had that same lineage.
Shout out to Flo, anotherparatrooper from 1st Brigade
2504.
There's something to be saidabout paying your dues.
There's anything wrong withbeing an 18x or, you know,
serving in any other capacity,but I always felt more sure than
(19:16):
who I was and my skill set,knowing that I I paid, paid
heavily in blood, sweat andtears in the 82nd first, and
learned the importance of likewhat it means to get your ass
chewed out when you, when youfuck up.
Uh, what it means to buildtrust and cohesion within a
platoon, within a squad and yourteam.
It's important, and being ableto capture that from behind the
(19:42):
lens, that must've beenremarkable.
What, what happened to thatfootage?
What'd you do with it?
Speaker 3 (19:47):
So that became a movie called no Greater Love,
and the singular point about itis behind every act of valor is
love, like valor, love leads tovalor, that brotherhood.
So the more that brotherhood isenhanced, the more that
brotherhood is built up, themore courageous that unit is
going to be.
And when trying to helpcivilians understand what's
(20:10):
beyond the uniform, the heartbehind it that's driving it, so
that way they could understandyou know these people as human
beings, you know not just uh,automatons.
And so put that film together.
It won 11 awards at festivals,uh, screened before white house,
before congress, went outtheatrically and then that kind
(20:33):
of set up.
Everything else I've been doing.
You know we, with this lastfilm I did about chaplains, but
it was like those medal of honorchaplains, those guys that went
beyond the call.
Um, I had one guy who's like upfor sainthood and he got a
medal of honor and made me feellike I was a shammer.
You know like I got.
Okay, he's a, he's a good dude.
(20:55):
I can't compare to that guy.
But you can't compare againstthe saint.
Yeah, literally it's like I'm,like, I'm just hanging.
He was like he was like he waslike he was like he was like he
was like he was like he was likehe was like he was like he was
like he was like he was like hewas like he was like he was like
he was like he was like he waslike he was like he was like he.
It's like Father Capone,freaking rock star, and it's
(21:25):
like that kind of love.
It's like how can you not bethis?
Okay, yeah, he deserves anyaward, accolade that guy can get
, and those are the guys that Ireally loved and aspired to
become a chaplain.
So I wanted those stories told.
So that film Chris Prattexecutive produced that one and
then it premiered at the Vaticanwanted those stories told.
So that that film chris prattexecutive produced that one and
(21:46):
then, uh, it premiered at thevatican and it's part of that
case.
I'm not catholic, so thesainthood doesn't have the same
significance to me, but I knowthat it's a recognition of his
love and I want that to go tothe moon, you know.
And so, uh, he's.
This film was part to helpadvocate on that behalf, and so
(22:08):
that went out to theaters.
It's going to be out on digitalpretty soon.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And then we're going to watch it.
We're, we're Catholics, and mywife uh does a great job of
always, uh, giving me the latestinfo on who's becoming a saint
or who's in the process.
The latest info on who'sbecoming a saint or who's in the
process.
We just had a young man who wasthe first millennial that was,
that became a saint, and Iremember my wife's always,
(22:35):
constantly like quizzing me andbringing stuff up when it comes
to the canonization of oursaints, and I'm just blown away
by how much knowledge she hasabout our faith.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Father first U S military chaplain to become a
saint and it's like, rightfully,rightfully deserved, yeah you
know, yeah, you don't do thesebig things, uh, just because
it's duty.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Like you, there's a there is a bond in your teams
and your platoon, and when shithits the fan, when you have to
do something big, you're right,it's love.
You don't go to look.
When you get down to the meatand potatoes of policy and and
and foreign uh situations, wedon't deploy with this grandiose
(23:15):
idea that we're there to makeafghanistan great again and iraq
great again.
Like, we have a calling as awarrior and we're there in very
you know it's tough situations.
Wherever you align yourselfpolitically, it's difficult, but
the guys in the rank and file,the guys there boots on the
ground, they are there for eachother.
(23:35):
End of the day, that's themission.
Get the boys home.
Yeah, everybody comes home.
And you have to sell that andyou have to mean that with all
your heart, we're all cominghome.
And you have to sell that andyou have to mean that with all
your heart, we're all cominghome.
Unfortunately, we know thatthat's not always certain, but
damn it if we're not going totry no, then I think that is the
strongest force in the usmilitary.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
It's like that, that brotherhood, sisterhood, um, and
kind of going back onto themental health side is like if we
want to fix the problems thatwe're facing, we have to give
that more space and attention,like that is our, our path, that
is our most singular strengthand it is also our path to
(24:17):
healing.
But there has to be that typeof transparency in the unit that
you can talk about yourproblems and issues and it has
to be an intentionalconversation, you know know,
because, like most dudes, wouldrather die than look weak,
literally, oh yeah I know, Iknow from experience that's the
the hardest thing to admit.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
The hardest thing you can do that's also the most
freeing and most powerful thingis to be vulnerable.
But how do you do that whenyou're living amongst legends,
where you, when you're servingamongst men that are, you know,
at the, the highest echelon,they're the strongest, the
fittest, the best, the best ofthe best, and they're, you know,
(24:57):
you're sitting there wonderingto yourself like how, the how do
I ever admit that I am dealingwith something that I'm ashamed
of, that I can't explain, that Ihave no ability to verbally
explain to anybody or want to.
How do I continue walkingamongst them?
Yeah, that's what a lot of usmen deal with, and it's so hard
(25:19):
to advocate for vulnerability,for taking a knee.
It's difficult because guysjust want to keep going.
But sooner or later and this iswhat I say for the GWAT era
veterans you're going to meetthis obstacle.
We all have to address thisissue.
We all have to sit down and dothe work.
(25:39):
It's going to come to us.
Everybody, everybody that seeswarfare from a first-person view
in life.
Well, nowadays, with the adventof the internet, we can all get
a view of it from what's goingon in a ukraine, and that does
leave a mark.
But for our veterans, foreverything that you've done and
everything that you've gonethrough, at some point you got
to talk about it and that'sdifficult and it's.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
This is uh, if you look at like the degrees of
emotional growth orindividuation it's.
And so we're talking aboutoptimizing, like how to become
the ultimate person, theultimate version of ourselves,
right, and you got the differentdimensions physical, spiritual,
emotional, all this stuff.
(26:21):
As you know, war fighters, theyoften master the physical to a
far degree.
They're extreme and they'reprofessional field craft.
They become excellent warriors.
But to become that full person,full leader, fully connected as
(26:46):
a unit, there has to be thattransparency, you know, because
it's not like it's not there andit's not like every single
individual has these differentstruggles and issues.
They're all different, they'reall like personally crafted for
you.
You know, your fuck ups areyour fuck ups, you know, and
that has to be dealt with.
Um, but it is best dealt withas a team, just like everything
(27:07):
else.
Like you have to have theseother people who are looking at
you saying, okay, I see thisside, I see that.
Okay, you know, it takes thatother person to help you extract
those things, find solutionsthat you don't have, and
sometimes you have solutionsthey don't have, and vice versa.
(27:30):
I never, I was never just theminister and it was always like
pouring down in this way.
That don't function with thatego.
It was always this it's likeI'm coming to you as a friend
and that's it.
I get to be the Ferris Bueller,like you know.
Just, I'm here to fix yourproblems and I don't have a gun,
but I'm going to carrysomething, right.
And so it's that type ofteamwork to to take each other
(27:53):
to that next level, whateverthat is.
And so if you're dealing withan addiction, it's because
you're covering something up,and so it's going to have to
take a brother to say hey, man,what are you covering up?
What are you trying to hidefrom?
You're going too deep into thebottle and it's time to come out
, and a real brother will dothat.
(28:13):
So with that unit, that's whatwe focused on.
The one that was suicidal wasfocusing on the brotherhood.
It was mostly dudes, and how dowe have those intentional
conversations without judgment?
And it worked, it was reallyeffective, and it wasn't me who
fixed stuff, it was thebrotherhood that fixed it, and I
(28:34):
was amazed by that.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
But yeah yeah, it's, addiction is a tough one, right
as much as we don't want to uhadmit it, that individual still
ultimately in charge of gettinghimself out of that prison, and
we we've lost a lot of friendson the show that uh didn't want
(29:00):
to get help.
And it's the individual has tomake that choice, to be
vulnerable and be willing, bewilling participant in that
recovery process.
And that's the part that sucks,because you can walk, you can
walk through.
I mean, we've had some goodfriends that you know.
We got the treatment centers,we got them to a good place and
(29:22):
then they relapse and then ityou'll be amazed at what people
can hide and they can get reallygood at wearing that mask again
.
And that's the.
Out of all the things that Ihave, uh, I've seen and lost
friends for addiction is thehardest one to accept that you
(29:43):
sometimes you can't have a sayyeah, a lot of times that the
alcohol or the, the pilladdiction is something that can
easily come right back andthat's a.
That's a tough fight, that's atough loss.
It's like there's no, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
No, I was just thinking it's like the uh, that
um, I that's like I've nevertried alcohol, never tried
cigarettes, because my dad was adrug dealer and because of all
that stuff that I saw, I waslike whoa, I can't.
I can't because, like I, I waslike so afraid, like deathly
afraid.
(30:22):
It wasn't out of righteousnessor like trying to be anything.
It's like deathly afraid, itwasn't out of righteousness or
like trying to be anything.
It's like deathly afraid ofthat road.
Yeah, because I saw and thesame thing, like I've had too
many friends went down that roadand got lost and um, didn't
come back, and that one of thethings I had to deal with.
(30:45):
It was was like a Messiahcomplex when I first became a
chaplain, thinking I could savepeople.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, yeah, no, I, honestly, I and that's for you.
I was like you're the chosenone no, I think, anybody that's
an advocate or a peer-to-peersupport or somebody that's
championing a cause.
After they've gotten better, Iknow I felt like I could just
(31:10):
bring everybody along thisrecovery and sometimes the last
thing somebody wants to hear isthat you have a resource for
them, and they won't always bepolite about it.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
No, some people aren't ready and that's hard no,
it's like the, you just figureout where a person's at and then
just like love them there, andand then it's like you, just
that that's the only thing Icould do.
You know, like, um, I kind ofhit my wall because, um, I had
(31:43):
this one dude who's like'm goingto talk to you.
It was like on a Friday and Ialready had a counseling session
booked and I didn't want todrop off that other dude.
So I was like, oh man, that'slike can I hit you up on Monday?
Are you going to be okay?
And he's like yeah, I'm goingto be okay.
So, of course, he tries to killhimself on Saturday.
(32:06):
And I was like suicide, suicide,suicide, like all these
problems, and I wasn't goodenough to fix it.
I wasn't enough.
And so I was like, at FortCampbell, pulled into this car
wash area and I'm heaving.
You know, like that's like snotand tears, like everything
coming out of me, like God, whywon't you fix this, why won't
(32:28):
you let me fix this?
Why can't I be on top of this?
And, um, it was a couple of dayslater that I had a dude,
another chaplain, buddy youcalled me out on that and he's
like you think you're Jesus.
You think you're God, are not.
It's like you can only lovethem where they're at, nothing
(32:48):
more, and it's going to be theirchoice, and you also have to
still love them when they makethe wrong one.
I was like, oh, that's hard.
I was like a punch in the gutbecause, like I know, if you're
doing something self-destructivelike want to choke you, you
know.
But I was like, oh, it's like,but how jacked up am I?
(33:09):
You know, and God still lovesme.
And so I just kind of had tobecome at peace with that.
And that made it so that took ahuge, like 50 pounds out of my
rucksack and I was like, okay,we're just people.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
That's a painful lesson.
I think our caregivers, oursupport networks are out there A
lot of people if you'relistening, and that's an aha
moment for you.
Trust me, you feel guilty whenyou don't answer that 2 am call
because you just went to bedafter getting somebody else
(33:50):
plugged into a resource.
Like you can't save everybody,you can't, you can't be
everything for everyone all thetime, all at once.
It's impossible.
You gotta sleep, you gotta eat,you gotta take care of yourself
or you're going to fall down.
That seems that downward spiraland, just like you said, like
you're not Jesus, You're not,you're not the most powerful
(34:13):
being.
You can't, you're not going tomake them not do something.
As much as it hurts to acceptthat you cannot change
somebody's mind, you can bethere, you can love them, you
can support them, you can givethem the best advice, you can
connect them to resources, youcan do the Googling for them,
you can literally drive them tothat treatment center.
(34:34):
But at the end of the day, theyhave autonomy.
They have a choice to make forthemselves.
And that's the hardest thing.
When your friend doesn't makethat choice that you want them
to make, and you still gottalove them and you gotta mourn
them now because they're nothere.
That's what sucks, that's when,that's then it's hard to accept
and you gotta go back and yougotta, you gotta, pray about it.
(34:56):
You gotta understand that you,you don't have control.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
You don't have control that's painful, and just
loving the broken, even if theymight not ever change yeah,
that gets.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Yeah, that, that, that, uh, that hits close to
that, hits so damn close to home.
We lost another friend and uh,three of us all going through
our own process of trying tounderstand, like fuck, like what
more could you do?
Like, you know that you werealways there, you know that you,
you provide a peer to peersupport.
(35:33):
You, you listened every singletime, connected them with jobs,
you got them out of badsituations, but ultimately they
made a choice.
Yeah, in this part of your lifesitting here, how do you
continue fighting and advocating?
Not being part of theorganization, not having that
(35:55):
seat within the organization asthe chaplain?
How do you go about it now?
Speaker 3 (36:03):
That's a good question.
It's still pretty much the samebecause my circles are always
filled with people.
I still have people reachingout to me, so my job hasn't
changed as much.
The battle rhythm has changed.
I'm spending more time workingon films, writing storytelling.
But the ministry of Jesus waspretty simple in its design.
(36:26):
He walked around doing miracles, helping people.
He was always focused onmeeting the need, helping
somebody with their problem.
Then he would share a story andit's so funny because, like
they would, even the apostlesconfronted him like why do you
speak so much?
In parables?
It got to the point that theguy was always speaking in so
many stories.
They're like dude, like why allthe stories?
(36:47):
But that is how people get stuff, that is how people.
You could give them aPowerPoint presentation.
It means nothing.
You know, if you tell them astory, it's going to.
It has a possibility of sinkingin on multiple levels and
changing their whole paradigm.
So not, this wasn't intentional.
I had this aha moment later,but I was like the way he went
(37:10):
about it is somewhat how I'vetried to structure.
You know the way I'm goingabout it, just because I'm a
storyteller anyways, and um, sothat is, I can reach more people
that way.
Now it's not if I could stillbe a battalion chaplain.
I loved it, like that.
That was amazing.
You know, nine to five, notactually it was all hours, but
(37:35):
having that, I loved that, thatjob, you know, cause you're just
hanging with the dudes fixingproblems and you got to see
those.
You know a lot of those thingsfixed and people growing and
people growing, and that wasincredible.
But now just the way that mylife has gone, it's now
(38:01):
storytelling.
It's uh trying to reach abroader audience and like the
whole vision of like no greaterlove was that one dude who was
out in the back 40, he's notgoing to talk to his friends,
he's not going to talk to hiswife or anybody else and he's
been through too much stuff andhe's, he's at the end and I
wanted to reach him.
I wanted the whole film to bedesigned for him, that he would
(38:22):
watch it, he would see dudeslike himself who went through
that same journey, and then hereis how they found hope.
So that's, I designed the wholestory for that one dude and, um
, so that's the way I'm goingforward.
It's like using filmstorytelling to reach people, uh
(38:43):
, reach wide audiences, but alsothat one person that we might
not be able to reach, and withthe hope of giving them hope.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yeah, that's perfect.
That's a.
That's the way to go about it.
Just speak to that one personthat's in need.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
So, but I'm also lucky too.
It's like I'm still getting tohang out with a lot of combat
veterans in the military.
It's just the way life has gone.
So still, you know, stillfinding myself sleeping next to
a javelin ever so often, youknow, like listening to the
(39:18):
dudes having snoring contests,you know, in a smelly, smelly
place and, um, yeah, it's, it's,uh.
It's been an interestingjourney.
So it still still feels likeI'm in but I'm out, but I'm in,
and it's interesting to see whatthis life might take me next
too, because we've got futureconflicts going on.
(39:39):
So if I keep on telling storiesabout conflicts, then I might
find myself out there.
Yeah, I hope not.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I hope.
Yeah, man, I was foolish tothink that we would be able to
take a knee.
No, our generation of guyswould finally be able to listen
to shows like this, to promotethe idea that your greatest,
greatest calling is to be afather, to be a husband, to help
(40:07):
coach and mentor the nextgeneration.
That's what arguably made usgreat as a nation.
We have fathers that werepresent.
We had people that wereinvolved in their community.
We're so against that thesedays, we think that these spaces
are not for us, that somebodyelse will figure it out,
somebody else will take care ofit.
No, the person that needs totake care of it is you.
(40:28):
You, the veteran that's beenmissing for 20-plus years.
That's why I'm constantlyadvocating, but I'm seeing the
world continue to become a morecomplex hotbed of conflict, and
more men and women are going tofind themselves needed in these
spaces Are you going?
to find yourself in Ukraineanytime soon, or are you done
with that?
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah, I'll go back.
I still have stuff I've got tofinish over there.
I was going to say a sayingpopped in my head that I came up
with a long time ago.
But the two most consistentsounds in human history are the
beat of the heart and the drumsof war, and it would be weird if
we didn't have another war.
Just looking at human history.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I'm all about weird man.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
I'm all about weird.
That would be a phenomenonthat's not likely.
I'm all about weird man, I'mall about weird.
That would be a phenomenonthat's not likely and it's
tragic that we're that way.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, it just needs to end it really, truly does.
The conflict in Ukraine needsto end.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Guys right now out in burma, you know, fighting
beside that revolution, doinggood stuff.
There's actually a chaplain outthere that put together the
free burma rangers, sf.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yeah yeah, I'm trying to try to contact with those
guys that story's amazing.
That story's amazing yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
So I think, like all around the world this, there's a
lot of good dudes who arefighting for freedom, who are
fighting, uh, against evil.
They just took the skills andtraits that they had and they
started applying it against theenemy and, um, so that's where
my heart's at like now.
But you know what, balancingfamily as well, that's hard,
(42:14):
it's no joke.
And the whole point of thefirst film is explain to my
daughter why this was important,and I even recorded her.
And not a whole lot, not likean interview or anything like
that, it's a letter.
The whole film is structured asa letter from a father to a
daughter, uh, from the frontlines, in the trench, and I'm
(42:36):
literally talking, wow, in thetrench.
Why is this important?
And it's not just important,like, for ukraine and me being
out in ukraine, but everysoldier who serves, every father
who's a soldier, you know.
You know why is this important?
And it comes down to we have tofight against these forces that
(42:57):
are trying to craft an evilworld.
It's not a better time, we'renot living in safer times.
The struggle is very real andit's insidious and everywhere,
(43:21):
creeping into our democracy,creeping into every nation, this
fight for dictatorships andcontrol versus empowerment and
justice and democracy, and so Isee that conflict going on and
good men have to rise up andthey have to fight.
And it's needed Because thesecond that they stop, that's
when evil starts to win.
And so I'm interested to seehow these future conflicts come
up, because I see that the drumbeats of war are starting to
(43:41):
escalate.
Yeah, oh yeah yeah, crescendo.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah, anytime you see defense tech companies popping
up every four to five minutes,yeah, shout out to andreal,
because those, those ads arelike a marvel movie they're
about to.
That might be stock worthbuying here soon oh yeah, if
you're not investing in uhandreal, uh palantir um a few
(44:07):
others um you, they're gonna befine.
Yeah, you need to.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
That's job security right there.
Yeah, I might kick out the softweek too.
I went there a couple of yearsago and I got asked to come back
.
But yeah, it's interestingwhat's around the corner, and
then kind of deciding like howdo we want to weather this tempo
(44:33):
?
I think the calling to go outis a calling and the calling to
not go out is a calling.
It's this.
The worst thing that we face isfalse guilt, yeah, and so it's
like there's a I call it thetotem pole of guilt.
And you have a civilian.
I've had plumbers and doctorsand lawyers explain to me why
(44:55):
they didn't become a soldier,but I've never explained to a
plumber, doctor or lawyer why Ididn't become a plumber, doctor
or lawyer, never did.
And it's like I never went to aplumber.
Oh, I was thinking about doingthat in college.
You know I was maybe oneplumber, yeah, so you know it's.
It's, I was maybe one word.
Yeah, so it's, it's neverhappened and so but then on the
(45:16):
next level you have guys wholike serve, like in cold war or
stuff like that.
They never went over, never hadanything going on, and they say
like, hey, yeah, I, I didn'texperience that.
You have the guys who deploy,but they never sure heard shots
fired in anger.
They tell you that you hearthose guys shot, fired an egg,
(45:39):
but they just see the intensestuff, the regular stuff, like
you did, you know.
They'll tell you that.
And then you have up that totempole of guilt.
You go and you've got guys whonever got wounded but they had a
buddy did.
Maybe they should have beenthere for them, maybe they
should have done more.
Why didn't they do more?
Ooh, guilt.
And then I even have a buddyLinscog.
He was a medic.
He charged out, was fixing adude and then took a bullet
(46:01):
above his side plate, bouncedaround his body.
He knew he was dying and evenas he was dying he was telling
guys how to fix themselves.
And then his last words wereI'm sorry, I couldn't do more.
Like he was at every singleBible study Amazing, amazing
dude.
But his last words were I'msorry, I couldn't do more.
(46:23):
And so you on that totem pole,every level, you have this guilt
.
Even if you're dying, you stillfeel like you wish you could
have done more.
Even if you're dying, you stillfeel like you wish you could
have done more.
And so none of us are free fromit.
We just have to accept thatit's false guilt.
We don't have to own it, itdoesn't have to sit in our
(46:44):
rucksack, we have to let it go,to be free.
And I even had a buddy whowrote a suicide note to his wife
and two daughters because hefelt so guilty.
He wasn't there and there's noway he would have been there for
one of his guys, one of hisfriends.
But his friend died and hewasn't there and like his friend
would be, like man can'tbelieve you weren't freaking
there for me.
You know, like you would have,like that that angst.
The dead don't want us to likestop living our life.
(47:06):
No, they want us to moveforward and let go of the guilt.
So that's the totem pole ofguilt and it's like we find
everybody on it, but we have tolet it go, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
That's, um, one of the most important things that
we can take away from thisepisode.
You gotta let go of it.
Yeah, they want you to live.
They want you to thrive.
They don't want you sittinghere surviving.
They want you to live.
They want you to thrive.
They don't want you sittinghere surviving.
It's just, you want to reallymake it up to them.
Have an amazing life.
You really want them to lookdown and be happy, live a
(47:40):
fucking epic life.
You owe it to them Live great.
You have to do it, Even whenyou don't want to, because they
need you to.
They're looking down.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
Justin, I can't take you.
They would want you to raiseyour kids, live your life, enjoy
it, you know cherish everymoment yeah, justin, thank you
for being here today, brother, Ireally appreciate this.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
People want to connect with you or look at your
films or see your past work.
Where can they go?
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yeah, it's echobraboproductionscom, that's
Echo Bravo Productions andthat's where most of my projects
are at right now, and I'm onInstagram, social media, all
that kind of stuff, linkedin, soI'm easy enough to find.
But I'm not like a social mediainfluencer or anything like
that, I'm just a filmmaker justa filmmaker, no big deal you're
too humble, sir I think there'ssome people online like socially
(48:40):
, uh, social media extroverted,yeah, like a social media
introvert.
You know, I do a movie and I Iget away yeah, well, for guys
listening, go ahead and pauseright now.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Go to the episode description, click all those
links and send this man aLinkedIn friend request or
Instagram friend request andmake him be social on there and
be active so you can promote hiswork and his films.
Justin, I can't wait to haveyou back on so we can dive more
and go deeper into faith and thespirit and tap into your
journey.
So I think we need to have Ineed to have more talks with
(49:15):
chaplains.
I think it's important toreally elevate that last pillar
that, for all of us, just seemsto have fallen by the wayside.
I don't know if it's culture, Idon't know if it's the way
we're raised.
We push away the faith.
But I'm living proof that youcan find your way back to God,
back to your religion.
You don't have to be a Catholiclike me.
I certainly do wish you would.
But, yeah, find your own path,find your own religion.
(49:37):
I'm Danny Caballero, thank youfor tuning in and we'll see you
all next time.
Till then, take care.
Thanks for tuning in and don'tforget to like, follow, share,
subscribe and review us on yourfavorite podcast platform.
If you want to support us, headon over to buymeacoffeecom
forward slash SecHawk podcastand buy us a coffee.
(49:57):
Connect with us on Instagram, xor TikTok and share your
thoughts or questions abouttoday's episode.
You can also visitsecurityhawkcom for exclusive
content, resources and updatesand remember we get through this
together.
If you're still listening, theepisode's over.
Yeah, there's no more Tune intomorrow or next week.
(50:19):
Thank you.
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