August 4, 2023 • 64 mins
Ready to embark on a fascinating journey through the tech world? Our guest, James Giles, shares his intriguing progression from tech sales and IT into cybersecurity. He offers insights on how his early fascination with computers, coding, and console modding laid the groundwork for his understanding of operating systems and servers. Buckle up as we explore Giles’ varied experiences on a help desk, tackling everything from Python problems to security threats, and emphasizing the immense value of such a role for anyone eyeing a holistic view of the tech universe.
Ever wondered about the two sides of the AI coin? Our compelling discussion takes you on a deep exploration of the pros and cons of AI, including its implications for privacy and human interaction. We scrutinize the potential risks from facial recognition technology, social credit scores, and digital IDs, weighing these against the convenience they offer. As we ponder the potential of AI to replace people in Tier 1 helpdesk roles, we underscore the crucial role of the human touch to back up technology and ensure accuracy.
The conversation takes a darker turn as we delve into the murky realm of AI and email compromise misuse. Giles illuminates how unsavory actors exploit these tools to gain unauthorized business access, highlighting the need for extra security layers. As we wrap up our discussion, we touch on how AI is molding the workforce's future, emphasizing the necessity for professionals to familiarize themselves with this tech, irrespective of their field of expertise. Engage with us in this important conversation as we tackle these critical cybersecurity topics today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And we're back with another amazing episode of
security happy hour.
That's right, it's ya boy.
It's the cyber warrior studio.
Cyber warrior, and we are hereon cyber warrior studios now.
We got a great show planned,got a lot of big things planned,
a lot of great conversationsplanned.
But before we get into that,you know what we got to do, you
know.
You just know what's coming.
I'll be back in about 10seconds and we're back and hold
(00:35):
on, hold on, as always.
There it is the official soundsecurity happy hour kicking off.
There we go.
Have a good fray's day.
I hope this is an amazingepisode.
I plan for it to be an amazingepisode.
I got James Giles here.
Giles, I don't know how to.
There we go.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yes, it's bourbon dillies.
I.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Had a friend growing up.
Her name her, her last name wasGiles.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So there's a lot of years here in the chat.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Thank you for joining us this evening.
As always, super chats andeverything, all that all that
stuff is turned on.
Feel free at your Disposal ifyou should so choose.
Otherwise, I'm here for y'all.
We're just gonna have a greatconversation.
So before we get into it, james, why don't you introduce
yourself and let us know kind ofwhat's bringing you into
cybersecurity?
Because I know you're, you'rethere, but not there you're,
(01:33):
you're kind of like in themiddle.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So, yeah, it's.
It's a weird scenario of I'm inum, so I've been technical my
whole life.
I started out my dad introducedus to PCs back in the 90s.
I was helping him put togetherhis PC.
He would play doom on it andsome of the classes like D&D you
(01:57):
know those old RPGs we have totype and so Essentially I grew
up hacking I do.
I grew up being the IT guy ofthe family, done a little bit
coding because my dad was asoftware engineer for hr block
and then, yeah, pretty much Idid everything from modding
(02:21):
consoles to, you know, takingapart PCs, figuring out ways to
do things that you aren'tsupposed to do with tech, and so
what ended up happening is Igot into sales and I was working
for Comcast and I worked my waythrough T-Mobile, at&t, every
(02:44):
kind of tech sales job I couldget my hands on, because I
enjoyed it.
I could talk about Androidphones and technology all day,
day in and day out, help peopleout.
Old people, like old customers,would come to me and be like,
hey, you did something awesometo my, my buddy's, friends, and
so I'd go through and set to thesimple mode where it mimics
(03:04):
like a flip phone.
So I grew up, I got into thatand then I Kept jumping jobs,
essentially, and so what endedup happening was I would jump
from one job to another, toanother.
I just couldn't enjoy it and itwas always technical work that I
(03:24):
enjoyed the most.
So eventually I got into IT andLuckily the company I'm working
at now they do both IT supportand they do security.
The big focus, the wholeculture, is around security.
So, yeah, that's time.
A bit of my background.
I don't know, I'm bad at givingthe the personal background
(03:50):
history.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the things.
You come from the samebackground, I do.
Right, you grew up kind of inIT and it's one of those things
is hard because I try to telleverybody they belong but I
can't always relate toeverybody's stories because a
lot of people are trying totransition later and and so for
(04:14):
me Coming up fixing computers atseven, eight years old, growing
up on America online anddealing with punters and chat
rooms and you know I will in init you know I was always very,
very vividly aware that if I hadanything but my own stuff that
I could go to jail, and I didn'twant to make a mistake and do
something stupid and step thatwas my issue one, two.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So I didn't want to become one of those recovering
non-ethical hackers.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
That was.
That was definitely my issue islike, because, because I
Understood the ethics and thelaws behind it as much as I
loved it, I didn't grow up in acommunity of, hey, let's bring
down the man, and, you know,let's be an orc.
I.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Have a hacker yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
You know I.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Hunt out in those communities.
I never participate.
I like.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I would have.
I would have, I would have fellright in out of it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Full bore idea of D Dawson, someone off of the net,
spots just a punk home was verytempting, but I know I'm not
gonna have Microsoft sue me, Ihad it done it.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I'd have done it all day.
I'd have been full send.
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Long term, my ass would not do well in jail.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
But no, it's crazy because you can.
You know.
The biggest thing right now isyou know, we look at it and
there's so many differentavenues in this type of security
.
There's so many different waysin.
One of the biggest things thata lot of us talk about is the
foundations, and One of the bestways to learn the foundations
is help desk, because if you getthat a plus, if you get that
(06:15):
sec plus or net plus or whatever, that help desk gives you that
foundational understanding ofoperating systems and servers
Right.
So what would you say has beenthe biggest benefit for you
working in a help desk in termsof trying to migrate and
transition in the cyber?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh my gosh.
Um, so two things I would say.
Um, one, you're exposed toeverything.
I've helped people with Pythonissues.
I've helped people with activedirectory identity, access
management, security threats or,you know, fishing attempts or
whatever, and having to trainthem on the proper procedure,
(06:55):
how to report it.
Um, it's, it's been good forexposure, because I know a lot
of people hate help desk andpersonally there's definitely
everybody I hate about help desk, but, um, that's definitely the
exposure to everything you youhave to be able to handle a PC.
(07:17):
You have to be able to handle,um, the software within PC, the
OS, everything from the, theregistry to Gosh.
I like there's so much, I justcan't list it all.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
There is there's a lot there, and Amanda said it,
amanda.
You know she's talking about.
Right now she's going throughthe Google cybersecurity course.
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And I heard a lot good about that.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, it's been a fantastic course.
Me and her kept up on ourjourney.
What she's been learning andand it is it's very you know a
lot of foundational stuff that'sbeing taught in that course,
and so I think in that goingthrough something like that, if
you're not going to get intohelp desk or IT first, something
like those very basic thingsthat help you understand the
(08:05):
concepts and the terminology,are huge.
They are what some of the mostimportant courses you will take
and that's why I don't talk downabout security plus or GSEC or
Google or anything like thatbecause they teach you those
foundational Basics that youneed to understand Prior to
entering the industry.
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And when it comes to I know a lot of people talk
about, should I get the the aplus or the network plus, I
would say If you're young andyou're in high school or
something, sure, get the the aplus.
Um, if you're playing on,working at a computer repair
shop or something where that isyour work, yeah, do the a plus
(08:46):
and the network plus.
But when it comes down to it,learn those.
You don't have to necessarilyget the certification because A
lot of companies don't care.
There there are a lot ofcompanies are like, oh well, you
need to know this, but Likethey'll look for more experience
a lot of time.
If you have no experience, itcan be good to get, definitely,
(09:10):
um, the network plus forcybersecurity.
I would go ahead and get that.
That is one on my list, um, butI personally I'm a prime
example and I've not.
I've only talked to friendsabout how I got into um IT, but
(09:30):
like I'm a prime example of if Ican do it, anybody can, and
it's all about skill, it's allabout knowledge.
And the reason I say that isbecause I mean it's different
now, because I have it, but backin the day, when I first got
into it.
I had moved back to Salt Lakewhere I live here in Utah, and
(09:52):
then I was working Smith, so Iwas doing electric.
Before I moved back, um and Iat Smith's, at night I was doing
freight crew, so I was just,you know, stocking shelves,
taking stuff off trucks.
But while I was working I waslistening to everything any
podcast, any Set plus network,plus a plus information that I
(10:13):
could get my hands on.
I I have a treasure trove ofYouTube and books and audio
books and whatnot that I'vedeveloped over the years.
But, um, but at the time when Iapplied that, I was hired
purely for knowledge and the,the willingness to learn.
Yeah, the reason why is becauseI didn't even have my GED at the
(10:37):
time.
Right, I was able to get in andthen get my GED later on.
But get in and get on into ITand get exposure to
cybersecurity, work with doctors, work with um like Other
corporations and whatnot, whereyou're dealing with
administrators, programmers, hrstaff, you're dealing with
(10:59):
everybody under help desk.
You did that Exposure, um,that's.
I was able to do that with noGED.
Just says something stilldefinitely in knowledge played
with everything you know.
Have that, that interest toFigure out how to get something
to do what's not supposed to door what they didn't know it
could, and that's that's thebiggest thing.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I think that's.
You know, it is one thing,because, even though it
constantly changes, it remainsthe same.
And I say the same thing aboutcyber.
Oh, you know, it always changes, but it remains the same.
Foundations will always bethere how to get from point A to
point B, the OSI model, thingslike this.
They're never gonna change.
Now where they were, where theywere died, whether it's in the
(11:45):
cloud or on-prem or you know,whatever you're doing, that may
change, but the underlyingfoundations of how computers
talk, of how operating systemswork, of how All of this stuff
interconnects, that's not gonnachange, that's, that's gonna
remain the same.
Now that, with a caveat, thatwith Things like, um, what I
(12:10):
kind of remember right now whatruns Bitcoin, well, I kind of
remember right now what runsBitcoin.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Oh, Crypto you're talking.
Decentralized yeah, the decentrealized crypto currencies.
Um, I forget what they.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah but it's decentralized computing with
things like that.
Yes, that will change the game.
Oh yeah, that becomes the norm,because then it's not point A
to point B.
Right, there's a record here,here, here, here, here and here,
and nothing is Permanent.
A wall is permanent, but it'snot stationary, rather
(12:50):
blockchain.
That's it, yeah, yeah, yeahthat's that will Don't like.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
I find it funny because Stammers and whatnot,
they think they're invisible.
But you can track blockchain,like you can track where every
sale has been made.
It's in the.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Oh, you can't you can't but what I'm saying is the
meeting behind it is With theblockchain because of the way
it's decentralized, because it'sright out, because it's all
these systems, you, you havemore redundancy.
Then just oh, I'm gonna connectthis firewall and this firewall
(13:28):
.
I've got a live, I've got afailover and that's what it is.
I think once the blockchaincomes more into fruition and
Starts running moredecentralized computing, as we
are seeing now come about, thatwill that'll be a game changer.
If that, if that actually comesinto full-scale Computing,
(13:49):
blockchain will be a gamechanger.
I don't know what's gonnahappen, but I foresee certain
things triggering it to happen.
Oh, yeah, absolutely which AI Ithink will be one of them.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
AI is.
That's an interesting topic, tosay at least, there's a lot of
there's a lot of confusion whenit comes to AI and a lot of
expectations are gonna be reallyinteresting to See where that
goes.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
There's a lot of good and bad with AI.
I look at AI.
I.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Don't you want to talk about the bad first?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, let's talk about the bad, let's go, all
right, all right.
You, you had you sat down talkswith a lot of people recently.
Me and you discuss this, sowhat are the negatives to AI?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Okay, so well.
When it comes to negatives,there's the most commonly known
things like, for example,there's a company called
faceception exception.
Anyone who wants to let that up, go ahead.
They are actually selling theirservices to police forces or
(14:58):
government agencies in order toLook at your face, figure out if
you're rated as potentiallybecoming violent or positive
individual or about to dosomething based on your facial
features, and their maintenanceof that police force is what not
(15:18):
can intervene Before you evercommit crime.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
So you're talking a full-blown.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
What's that Tom Cruise movie.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I'm not sure what it is.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Because what an M?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Oh, um, oh, my gosh, I can't remember I haven't seen
it in one movie.
I know what you're talkingabout, but they had.
They had uh, people that couldsee the future.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Oh my gosh, I can't remember for life.
Um, it is the same idea.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Now I'm assuming, because you haven't committed a
crime.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Minority report.
Cody got it.
Minority report yes, yes, yeah,so that is the same thing.
I know that you're talkingabout the social credit score.
I know two governments havealready picked it up.
There's probably more, and thatis terrifying.
Now China does the same thingfor, um, facial recognition and
(16:13):
what not, when it comes to, uh,your reputation, credit score,
credit score, yeah, yeah, socialcredit store.
So with that, um, there's a lotof people that are trying to
get into the industry.
So it's like things like thatare terrifying.
Now, to an extent, you know, Ialso see where people are going.
(16:36):
Oh, this is good because it'llprevent, like you know,
shoplifting or you know whatever, like it'll be able to
centralize information, butthat's bad because it destroys
your privacy.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, and it's a terrifying concept.
It's like you know.
You're not going to get the wayAI and you look at the way
social media was going on aboutthat wallet.
How you doing, brother, good tosee you here, look, hey, which,
by the way, caveat time out.
If you were into working withyour making your money, work for
(17:10):
you go listen to about thatabout that wallet podcast.
Um, homies, good one.
Yeah, homies got a good, a goodbit of information out there,
so make sure you get the the,the way that all of the world,
the world economy, the worldcountries and things like that
(17:30):
when it comes to AI, socialcredit scores, social media, all
this stuff, I think it's goingto come to a point where we're
all screwed.
Yeah, every last one of us,because of AI, because of social
media, because of the socialcredit scores.
China was the start of it.
Yeah, but it's not the end ofthe world yet, and it's not yet,
(17:52):
but working towardsimplementing the same thing.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Well, and they have.
Also, I know some states, likeUtah, for example.
They've got your ID as adigital, like um ID you can have
on your phone.
That makes it easier for themto track you.
And I don't.
I like the convenience, I don'tlike the ability to be
constantly on the map, becausethe government has a digital ID
(18:18):
that they can check.
Now, obviously, when you scanyour ID, you know the gas
station, the liquor store,obviously it's going to pop up
and they're going to go oh, hewas here at this time and buying
this, but um, but in general,like having it on an app that
exposes your security more waysthan one, for example, location,
um, all kinds of like theycould access your mic.
(18:43):
There's a lot of things andpeople are just going to accept
the turns because they want thatconvenience.
They're not going to review andsome people might be picking.
But no, like my dad, he's goingto be picky and paranoid, but a
lot of people are going to beah, yeah, whatever, and pass
through and it's up to it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So so actually we got a really good question here
about that concept.
Yeah, about that wallet.
Would you think NFTs would bethe best for tracking?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
NFTs?
In what way?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Tracking people, tracking location tracking.
Whatever You've got an NFT, itnow has embedded code.
You can do whatever you wantwith NFTs, I mean like anything,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Um, it depends on what it's attached to, because I
would imagine an NFT itself.
Now, I don't know.
I personally, I hate NFTs.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's digital art.
I could take a screenshot ordownload it today.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I see the good side, but I also see where it has been
blown out proportion and so Ijust haven't bothered with it at
all.
But, um, when it comes down toit, yeah, like anything digital
can be tracked.
If I send you a packet, you cantrack that packet.
Now, if I'm on a VPN, sure thatmight change things a little
(19:59):
bit, but or Tor or whatever, butthat's not going to guarantee
that you're safe.
And I could with if I send anNFT that's also attached to like
a file or something thatredirects you, then I can get
your PC name, your, your VPN IPaddress, I can get the device
(20:21):
type, I can get the location ofwhere that VPN is sending.
So in other words, that VPNwill say you're in Germany or
whatever.
But if you're not on a VPN, Ican get almost down to your
exact location.
It doesn't matter what it isLike.
If I sent you a packet ofwhatever it could be anything
(20:42):
some file you can be tracked.
So you got to be careful aboutit.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
But here's the other statement NFTs would be used for
drivers licenses, for sure, andhe's not wrong.
That is potentially the routethey're going to go, because,
again, decentralization, we canput it everywhere.
It runs on the blockchain.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
They're watching you.
Yeah, I mean, they're going tobe watching regardless.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
But it can't be modified without you know,
modifying all the records, youknow it's a lot harder to
falsify a driver's license or anID if it's an NFT and built on
the blockchain.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
See, I need to look into the updates on that,
because I only saw when theywere talking about incorporating
it into like an app, likestructure, so like I didn't keep
up on it.
So that's one thing, honestly,our audience might be a little
bit more aware of than me, andI'll definitely have to research
it, but I'm not surprised,because with crypto, it's more
(21:46):
secure in the way of like youcan track everything, but it's
not private.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Right, and that's the big thing, right, people here?
This is where you get into theconcept of you are trading your
privacy for security.
Yep, and that is what peopledon't understand is, anytime you
are looking at making thingsmore secure, you're less private
(22:13):
.
You're more secure becausethere's more eyes on that, can
track, that can watch, it can doall these things.
Right, there's less privacy formore security, and the same
thing goes for freedom.
You'll trade a little bit ofsecurity for freedom, for our
freedom for security, orwhatever the case might be.
However you want to word it,the outcome is still the same.
In order for the big gov,privacy for convenience.
(22:37):
Another one, you know, if biggov is going to get involved,
then you are trading all yourprivacy, all your, everything,
your freedoms, and all that justfor a little bit of security
really is really secure, becauseif you look at it, in this
industry nothing is 100% secure,right, right Nothing.
(23:00):
Well and I'm talking about that6 feet underground and a block
in lead line, fucking south andbury it deep.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
That is secure, yeah Well, and that actually goes
back to the whole, since thewhole thing of this show is kind
of generally AI.
So, when it comes down to it,ai, there's two different sides.
You have the side of well.
Two sides, I mean, there's thegood and the bad.
(23:27):
So you have, on one hand, oh,this is going to be like good
for massive amounts ofinformation and being able to
what's the word, being able toprocess it super fast.
If you throw a prompt into chatGPT, when it spits it out,
that's a lot of fast information.
But when it comes down to it,and I use it now.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Did you look at my description of this video?
That all came from chat GPT.
All I had to do was take outthe expert stuff, because I hate
the term expert rightdescription came straight from
chat GPT.
I was like I'm tired of comingup with shit to say.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Right, but like.
So, for example, one of thethings that they're they're
looking into some of thecompanies I've talked to and you
know some of the some of thecompanies I worked with is
incorporating chat, gpt to be anassistant for the help desk.
So, for example, you know whenyou're you called on the phone,
(24:27):
you did the automatic thing.
Have you tried this?
Have you tried that?
Blah, blah, blah and it goesthrough and gives you options on
the phone.
Yeah, it's a pain in the butt,but what they're trying to do is
make that worse, because beforeyou ever get to us, they're
trying to make it so that youhave that assistant overlay
first and then, if it'ssomething where it's like you
(24:50):
want a person, then eventuallyyou can get your way to it.
But even that person alone isgoing to be typing away doing
how do I like unlock an activedirectory account and whatever,
and then it's gonna spit it out.
So the good thing is, likeSharePoint, we're not going to
have to go on to SharePoint andmanually search through
(25:13):
everything and you know practiceor Googling stills, but when it
comes down to it or whatevertheir information base is but
because we'll just type activedirectory, whatever, and it'll
spit it out with an exact, solidstep of x, y and z.
This is what you might do, buthere's the downside.
(25:35):
So the downside is so I asked.
I was blunt about it, I waslike in one of our meetings.
I was like so the most commonthing on the internet when it
comes to AI is will it replaceyou?
And they said, potentially allthe L1s could be replaced.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
And that's the big thing, and so I had this
conversation really bad, andAngie will get to your question
here in a second.
I do want to address that inTwitch, but as far as AI.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
That's what they want , and you know why?
Because you lost more to payfor a person, but you save it.
You become a little bit moreprofitable.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
How soon would we be able to remove Tier 1 helpdesk
with AI?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I wouldn't say anywhere in the next like 10
years, no, so I'm not going tosay that they'll be removed and
there's a reason I'm no idea tothat when it comes to Tier 1
helpdesk.
So the issue is it's a robot.
How many times on the phone doyou get that automatic voice and
(26:42):
whatnot and you give it thepre-decided answers.
Now, in this case, you can giveit more of a custom question or
answer, but how many times doyou get frustrated with that
machine?
They want to have a humanbehind it who can back it up.
So in some cases that would belike an L2 or an L3 who's like
more skilled with it, but theypay for pay him more, but pay
(27:06):
the L1s less because they haveno more.
Well, they have less L1s, Iguess.
So the problem with that is thebarrier to entry becomes a lot
higher and I hate that because Iwant people anyone who's in
chat or whatever who really ispassionate about it and like me,
who started out no formaleducation, I was self-taught my
(27:31):
whole life.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So here's the thing about this, though, right,
that's what pisses me.
Whether it's help desk or cybersecurity, I do not feel AI
should ever replace any human.
No.
I think it should exist asanother layer to provide
information, but never replaceand me and those of hacker
valley media.
So, chris Cochran and RonaldEddings, we had this discussion
(27:55):
in their discord and on LinkedInand they said well, ai, you
know, is AI the future and gonnareplace cyber and da, da, da da
.
And I said, here's the thing nomatter what you look at, you
need human eyes because an AIonly knows what you teach it.
So if the AI only knows fromthe person that programmed it
(28:15):
what to do, what to learn andwhat to do, and go on from there
and it's a circle, and there'sanother comment here from
Infinite AI that we're gonnatouch on or actually griffin
info sec.
You know, if it only learnsbased on what you tell it and
you give it bad information,then it gives bad results, right
, right, right.
So it takes a human eye and sowhen you're looking at SOAR or
(28:43):
you know security operations ora SUC or IT help desk, look, I
have gone rounds with humans onthe phone.
Trust me, you don't want me togo rounds with an AI, because
I'm literally calling until Iget to a tier 3 I won't get to
manager and a meme.
I will go to the very top ofyour executive chain and raise
(29:06):
health, because here's the thingat the end of the day, ai is AI
, it's not a human being.
It's not gonna give me the sameresults.
So, for context, when I was Ithink I was in college or no.
I may have been graduating highschool, but I already broke my
(29:26):
computers.
I knew computers.
I knew how to fix them.
I knew all these things my dadbought four laptops.
These four laptops were piecesof shit, but at the end of the
day, they got a bunch of malwareon them for me and my three
sisters, because you know dayand age of limelight and Napster
and all that other shit, right,right.
And so the batteries were dying.
They were cheap, 400 dollarlaptops.
But he bought the service planson them through Dell and all
this other stuff, and I calledand I said, hey, I need four new
(29:48):
hard drives and four newbatteries.
And they're like well, you needit.
No, no, no, no, no.
This is what you're gonna do.
I'm gonna tell you exactlywhat's wrong with these
computers and you're gonna thensend me four new hard drives and
four new batteries.
I have a service plan If youneed me to run these shit over
with a car.
I will do it, I don't care.
They're gonna send me what Ineed and eventually they did it.
But if you're dealing with anAI, you can't get that type of
(30:12):
service.
You're gonna deal with an AIthere and tell you do this, all
right, done.
Don't be robotic.
Do this, okay, done.
Do this, okay done.
Do this, okay done.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Do this okay.
Done At the same time, it canbe structured.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Give me a human.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That's gonna fix my issue please Right, right.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, at the same time, it can be structured
against you too as a customer.
So it can funnel you through asales chain, for example.
It can funnel you through and,unlike a sales rep, who can read
your emotion and be able totell that you're getting a
little tipped off and maybe skipahead a bit, it will force you
(30:50):
through that tunnel and make itso you have to hit every step
for you to get to the end ofthat conversation.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
And I don't wanna stick out on Angie's question
here and comment, but it's veryvalid.
Who will control what kind ofdata goes into the open source?
Chat GPT, which is sharinginternal data that could be, has
been leaked, so we know thishas happened.
We know chat GPT has sharedinternal data data from people.
(31:22):
So who is controlling the dataand the data flow?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
So, when it comes to that, never, ever ever, give
your company's information oryour personal information to
chat GPT.
And I'll explain what I didwhere I used it for my work, but
I did not give identifying data.
So I went through.
I was frustrated with this newproject because the training was
(31:49):
crap, everything was chaoticand shambles and I had a lot of
ideas about how it could be donebetter.
And so I went to one of mybuddies who's up.
He's one of the higher upmanagers at my work.
He's basically over ourlocation.
I went to him and I was like,hey, like I have this
(32:11):
frustration and he's like, well,send me like a proposition or
something.
And I'm like, all right, yeah,but I was like the next day I
hadn't seen it yet and the nextday I got so frustrated I was
just pissed.
I was ready to quit that daybecause of how bad the training
was for the new hires and whatis new project and there's, you
(32:32):
know, growing pains.
But in this case it was just alack of good trainers or knowing
how to train or like people whoactually knew what was going on
, and so like we literally hadsome days where people would
come in and start the training,the official trainer would have
everyone waiting for two tothree hours before you even
(32:55):
start and not telling them onething, and then or end it early.
It was never like a day whereone thing happened.
It was either or either weended early when we should have
been practicing or they neverstarted on time.
I was just losing my mind andbecause I was brand new but I
was training the new hires inand I'm like dude, like I don't
(33:16):
know any of this and the guyswho know are not doing the
training well, and I just wantedto rant and rave and be angry.
But I went through and I usedchat GPT.
After I wrote up this long,ranty letter and I used chat GPT
and I was like, okay, I need tosend this out professionally, I
need to send this in a way thatwon't have the emotions I'm
(33:37):
feeling right now.
How can I do this?
So I made sure to remove on anyidentifiable data, project
names, anything like that,anything related to a tool,
because you don't want some sortof context that someone can
take, because chat GPT can spewthat information out your
private information, thecompany's information, whatever
(33:59):
you give it is in its record.
So there's gotta be a way tofish it out Now.
I went through and this is bothlike the good and the bad.
The bad don't put yourinformation in there.
But the good was I went throughand was like how do you or not
how rewrite this in a way thatcould be presented to C-suite
(34:21):
executives or management, etcetera?
I put off a list like thatRewrite this.
And I put it like auto correctand whatever else, and it went
through and rewrote the entiretheme, got rid of the emotion.
There was no more anger andfrustration, no more like me
(34:42):
getting pissed off at thecomputer, just angrily errrr
type in a way.
And it wrote it in a way thatwas awesome.
It was still my words, but itwas in a reorganized and
rephrased kind of sentence.
Does that make sense?
And then I added paragraphs toit and whatnot, and it requires
(35:04):
human editing.
You wanna go through and doublecheck the information because
you don't wanna copy whateverchat GPT throws at you and then
send it to your manager, forexample.
And then I did that.
I put everything together.
It was all my words, but it wasreshaped.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, and that's the thing is going through because
chat GPT is gonna give you itsown tone of voice, its own
contact.
So if it's something you'retrying to deliver professionally
and something you're trying todeliver to convey, a certain
message.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
You have to go through and reword it, yes, and
if you don't, do that, otherwiseit's not your information, it's
not your work at that point, ifyou don't edit.
And so, guess what?
I sent it and I didn't think itwas gonna go past my manager
friend.
I was like you know, I'm gonnarant and rave and get out of my
system, never hear a thing aboutit.
(35:58):
I sent to him and then I hithim up a few hours later at the
end of my shift and I was like,hey, so about that message I
sent you with the proposal forthe change in training, like any
word on it or just forget it?
And he was like, oh no, I sentit to upper management, I sent
it to the stakeholders and theirmanagers, basically everyone
(36:22):
involved with this new project.
And he was like, yeah, it wasbeautiful, like you know, great
information, you had good ideas.
And I was like, thank you, chatGPT, you just gave me an
audience with, like thestakeholders and upper
management, all right.
And then the next week thechanges were implemented
(36:43):
Implemented most of them, notall of them, but but again this
comes down to, there's good andbad to everything.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Right and I said this when I made the post today and
even within the stream, when youlook at any technical
innovation, it comes with a goodheart usually Usually a good
heart good ideas in mind.
It can approve all these things.
But then you have those peoplethat are gonna take something
good and turn it to a negative.
(37:09):
They're gonna use it as aweapon.
They're gonna use it to theiradvantage, and so we are seeing
that now with AI.
We are seeing that, with videosthat people are buying into,
they believe the legit, the real, it's all these things, but it
is a fake AI video.
Somebody threw a face on it andsaid oh yeah, this is real.
(37:30):
This is this person saying it.
This happened.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Did you hear about the Twitter post, the one that
taint to be a stock market for aday or something?
Yeah, yeah, they posted thatthe White House had been hit or
something like that.
And then you suddenly seepeople pulling out for stock and
whatnot and I was like whoawhat.
It looked real but I couldn'tbelieve that the stock market
(37:56):
actually crashed.
And that's just human emotion.
If you fish somebody well andwith AI now fishing easy.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
But here I'm gonna say this, and for educational
purposes only if you type in achat GPT, that you wanna fish
someone, it'll tell you no.
If you tell it to write me areally good marketing email for
this purpose, it will do that.
Just in FYI, just saying Yep.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Throw it out there.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
There are ways around everything.
Again, this comes down tomalicious intent and legitimacy
Marketing.
People could use it for real.
But then you have those, thatand this is where, again, the
bad comes in A lot of yourforeign actors, at least within
the US.
So your foreign adversaries aregoing to write emails, going to
(38:46):
try to fish you with a bunch ofbullshit.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
It used to be, they had to use a translator.
That would make it brokenEnglish and it never made sense
and you could always pinpoint it.
Now all they have to do is goto chat GPT and say, hey, write
me an email that says this thatgot you homie, no problem.
And you get it and you copy andpaste it into an email and now
it bypasses every spam filterand every issue out there, and
(39:11):
you have to look through it andactually dig deeper than the
words.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Well, and the problem , though, is they still do have
a few steps.
If they live out in Nigeria orIndia or something, and they
send a message and they edit itat all, or they word it in a
weird way, like you'll noticethe weird phrasing, or why is he
talking about Toyota, whatever.
But like if they actuallyunderstand enough English to get
(39:40):
their point across and give ita prompt that it understands
correctly, then, yeah, likefishing will, unfortunately, and
to phrase this, this is fortraining purposes and
information sake.
Not, I'm not condoning any ofthis, and neither is cyber
warrior, but when it comes tofishing and whatnot, they put
(40:04):
protections in, but the problemis those protections have been
bypassed.
Why am I here?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
I know I get emails every day that pass Google, one
of the biggest fucking femaleplaces in the world, and they
pass all the rest.
They're spam filters.
Yeah, I'm like look homie, Idon't wanna see this shit.
Why is it here?
It's spam, please get rid of it.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, yeah, well, and one of the things apparently
now some publishers are goingthrough and they're not
accepting, like where you writelike a proposal for a book.
Basically they're not acceptingproposals for new books because
(40:45):
people are using chat, gpt togo through and write up huge
sections of fancy novels orwhatever that they wanna sell
and unless they've gotten toknow the person.
So if they've seen the person,they've talked with them,
they're like I can verify this,is you all right, cool.
And like if it's a way thatthey can verify that a robot
(41:07):
didn't do it, then like at thatpoint they're accepting it.
But that's just one example ofan industry that's being
affected.
Not just hope does.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
And AR so infinite and probably AI has a valid
point.
Ai is a toll.
All tolls can be used forwhatever purpose.
Anyone can weaponize any tollfor malicious reasons.
James, you have an axe on thewall Pun to all.
Bunion used an axe, differentlythan Ragnar Lothbrok, he's not
wrong.
Two different reasons.
And so when you're looking atanything, even look at something
(41:40):
like uranium uranium, when theatom bomb, when the nuclear bomb
came about, it was not uranium,was not designed for that
purpose.
It was found and utilized fordifferent reasons and they were
investigating in science,definitely trying to discover
different reasons to utilizethis.
It was the war, it was Germanyand the US that were like oh hey
(42:04):
, homie, we can do a lot ofdamage with that.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
You're gonna we're gonna use it for something you
didn't want Explosions here.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, so when you look at these things, science
takes over technology in and ofitself isn't bad, whether it's
AI, the internet or whatever.
None of this is bad.
It is the fact that you shouldunderstand that people are going
to use it for malicious reasons, right.
(42:34):
And if you do not understandthat and if you design something
, they're like oh this is allgood, this is gonna be for all
good, without realizing that thehuman mind is gonna go.
How can I fuck somebody up?
Yeah, yeah, Well and Like thatshould be your first thought.
Your first thought should notbe oh, it's all good.
Your first thought these daysshould be how can I fuck someone
up with this?
Because I know it's.
(42:55):
I know someone's gonna thinkthis.
So let's think of the negativesit can do and either try to fix
that immediately or put in sometype of warning, some type of
statement, some type of whateverthat says, hey, we know this
has the potential to be used forthese purposes.
Please be aware and cognizantthat this is what it may be used
(43:17):
for, but that is not ourinitial intent and that is not
intent at all, and this is whatit was designed for.
Again, more like a CYA, like weget what evil it can do, but
that is not its purpose.
Its purpose is for X, y and Z.
Just because someone uses itfor XX, y and Z is not my fault,
(43:39):
but we understand that that ispossible, and so that is what
you know kind of the thingsshould look at and when you're
looking at oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Son of a bitch, help me.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Do that across different email platforms.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Signing an email signing encrypted signing.
So you have an instinctive fornow, a tie to your email,
whether it's by certificate orother, and so if you sign an
email, it is supposed to beauthenticated, it is supposed to
be only coming from you, right?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
But there's a-.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I can feel a certificate.
I can falsify a certificate.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
I can own a certificate.
So, in terms of the CIA triad,which is confidentiality,
integrity and availability,you're talking about that
integrity standpoint.
Exactly so Good, it's calledbusiness email compromise.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I was gonna say like, and also I mean, just because
it's signed by the systemdoesn't mean that anyone's going
to like necessarily payattention to that.
I'll do a van to firewall.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
But again, if you're looking, at BEC this is how a
lot of companies are gettingcompromised now.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Right and people won't be like Company A does
business with Company B.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
What I do is I infiltrate Company B.
I take an email address thatyou have interacted with before,
maybe piggyback off an emailand I now send that to you and I
say, hey, you owe us money.
Please review this invoice.
You owe us money for X, y and Z.
You're like what the hell?
I'm gonna read this invoice asbullshit.
You read that invoice and nowall of a sudden, your whole
system's compromised.
(45:23):
I now own you because I ownsomeone's email.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
And half the time you don't even know you don't have.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
No, no, because here's the thing we were
discussing it today at work is Ican sit there and drop a benign
file.
It does one thing, and onething only.
All it does is call out, andI'm gonna sit there and I'm
gonna look at it and I'm gonnawait and see if your EDR, if
anybody, catches it.
(45:50):
They don't catch it, cool, I'mgonna send a command to it.
Yep, now, when I send thatcommand, does it get caught?
Yet?
No, it doesn't get caught, cool.
So what are you running on yoursystem?
What are you doing?
And I can even use AI at thesame time.
Let's be honest.
I can sit there and write anentire artificial intelligence
script, which, in reality, is abunch of if, then else
statements.
That's all it is.
(46:10):
If this, do this, if this, dothat, whatever.
So I'm gonna sit there.
I don't even gotta do shit.
I write this script, I delivermy payload and I'm gonna walk
away If I come back in a day ortwo and I see I've pwned your
entire network.
That means your EDR and yourSOC.
We're not doing their job Right, and it's all because I
(46:31):
compromised, not your accounts,but another email.
Yep, that's all it is.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Like optimize somebody else.
That then sent you an email andyou believed it Because it was
a reply or a forward from anaccount you already do business
with.
Right right.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Well, and here's the other thing people don't think
about too If, say, when yourclients gets affected or your
service provider gets affected,then guess what?
You're not gonna know thatthat's a malicious email.
Now, because you've beencommunicating with this guy for
months now and they've beeneither supplying a service or
(47:13):
you've been supplying a serviceor whatever.
And then guess what, like nowthey've been compromised.
They don't know they've beencompromised, and now you have a
malicious person attackersending you emails.
So I mean, there's a lot ofdifferent ways that that can go
about.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, that's the big thing and I think this is where
AI is gonna come into play and,like I said, it's gonna come
down to you have things likechat, gpc, google I forget what
Google is called.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I forget what these others are called.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
But they build these AI programs which, let's be
honest, are if than else andthen they start to learn.
They program them to learnBecause you're hackers well, not
hackers, your maliciouspersonnel and your attackers
understand how to program.
They probably know how toprogram AI better than you do,
better than anybody else.
Let's be honest, they knowtheir shit.
(48:08):
If they can work around yourEDR and everything else, they
know their shit.
So what they're gonna do isthey're gonna, right now, right
now, because of chat, tbt andeverything else, they're gonna
read that source code or find away to exploit it.
They're gonna find a way toutilize all this stuff to their
advantage, and then they'regonna write something that
(48:29):
literally pivots back and forth.
And now their hands are clean.
You can't find them.
Good luck, homie.
Go after open AI.
I'm out and they own yourentire system.
I guarantee you, with open AIbeing open AI in the way it is,
in the way this code is opensourced, in the way they're able
to do things and othercompanies are open, sourcing
(48:50):
their stuff they arelegitimately going to sit there
and allow it to pivot back andforth.
I'm going to type a command tothis system.
It's gonna go here.
It's all through VPN or someother anonymizer.
It's like yo, I'm out, homie, goahead.
Good luck finding me.
They didn't cover me.
The commands never came from me.
It came from them, the same aspiggybacking off of your
(49:13):
neighbor's wifi.
Guess what?
I didn't download that.
That was them.
You can't blame me.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
The only well, that's true, but the only thing about
it is intense Proximity is thedifference is proximity between
me and chat.
Gbt is miles, thousands miles,whereas my neighbor it's like,
well, it's probably somebodythere, so we're gonna come
knocking on everybody's door.
So just because you're onsomeone else's wifi, it doesn't
(49:43):
mean you're safe.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
It doesn't, but if you're not paying attention, it
does.
Yeah, Because you've got toconsider if somebody has enabled
you to get into their personalwifi, enabled it meaning they're
not watching.
They literally probably havethe default creds.
There's nothing else there,then how are they gonna know it
was you?
Oh, yeah, yeah well and.
But now, if somebody came afteryou, or a lot of the people, a
(50:08):
lot of the warriors in chat, orme or somebody like that, I'm
gonna have logs, I'm gonna havenotifications, I'm gonna sit
there and literally all of mypasswords have been changed to
where, unless I gave you apassword you're not getting in,
which means I'm gonna knoweveryone on my network and I'm
like you're gonna go look atthis on me's computer.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Right, right.
Well, they would go look atyour neighbor's computer.
But the problem is they wouldknow that the MAC address
doesn't match Right.
So now, rbcom, I need to searchyour house for your computer.
No, but they're not.
At the very least you woulddeal with it, but the neighbor
would not get in trouble.
(50:46):
So I mean, at the very least,at least they don't get in
trouble, but they would have abit of a some explain to do
about the scenario.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, yeah, and again it comes down to how much it
looked at and you figure I got ahouse, I got a wife, I got five
boys.
Yep, there's a lot of people onthe fucking internet.
Yeah, great, because of the twocomputers I have, plus the cell
phone and a bunch of other shitrunning through my house.
So probably come to me first,because I've got external hard
drives and everything elsehooked up.
I'm like look, bitch, what wereyou doing?
(51:16):
What Shit?
What happened?
Please explain and I will giveyou access to whatever you want.
We can talk about this.
I will let you go, but explainto me what is going on before I
start giving you access.
Exactly so, and again, that justcomes down to the fact of I
(51:36):
understand, and this is why itis so important, for whether
it's me and you and those incybersecurity that understand AI
and malicious intent andwireless security, or whatever
the case may be, this is whyit's so important to understand
these things, because you maynot know that somebody is doing
(51:56):
something, but if you understandhow the concepts work as a very
, very baseline level, you canprotect yourself.
Oh yeah, because I can sitthere me personally can sit
there, piggyback off your wifiwhile I'm in the driveway,
do-do-do-do-do change my MACaddress, change my computer name
, change my IP address.
I'm literally just stealingyour internet and doing whatever
(52:19):
the hell I wanna do, and thenI'm gonna change my MAC address
back, I'm going to rotate it tosomething else, I'm gonna go do
something else, I'm gonna gosomewhere else and you'll never
know.
But guess what?
You're the one that got the FBIshowing up through your door.
Yeah yeah, exactly, so it's nothard, it's not a difficult
concept.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
No, it's not.
There's ways to do it.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
But you have to be able, and this is why I get
frustrated with the youngergeneration well, not my kids,
cause I teach them but the newergenerations that are like, oh,
privacy don't matter, or I don'tcare about wifi, or I could do
whatever I want and all thisother stuff.
Look, ai is gonna fuck your dayup.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
AI hands down is gonna mess your day up.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
It is going to ruin it.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
There is some good.
So, when it comes down to it,nowadays, unfortunately, because
all companies are trying togrow and innovate with AI,
because they're trying toincorporate it in one way or
another, oh yeah, look at allyour ADR vendors.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
We have AI and ML.
No, do you know?
You have behavioral analytics.
Shut the fuck up, right right.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
But the good thing is , if you can interact or you can
program or be able tomanipulate AI at a high level,
that will make you more valuable.
And it will also I meannowadays, unfortunately, the sad
thing about going back to thewhole help desk L1's being
replaced thing, which honestly,that pissed me off when I heard
(53:44):
that.
But that being said, with thatkind of scenario, you're going
to make yourself more valuableby becoming an AI subject matter
expert and SME.
If you can do that and you arethe guy that they go to because
they're like, hey, somethingweird happened.
(54:05):
Like you know, if a new guycomes in and something happens
and you can help them, thenyou're way more valuable.
Or if you can manipulate it ina way that's advanced, then that
will make you more valuable tothe company because you're able
to use this tool veryefficiently, effectively.
So definitely my recommendationto anyone getting in I don't
(54:30):
think L1's and L2's are going tobecome obsolete, because during
that conversation that we had,when I was having that
conversation with the guy istalking about these future plans
there were two people in theroom.
(54:52):
You have the engineer and thenyou had the guy who was trying
to headpiece the guy who knowswhat he wants but he doesn't
necessarily know how everythingworks.
Right, yeah, and so theengineer got asked next.
So, like the mouthpiece waslike yeah, like L1's, your job
could be at stake.
But the problem with that isthere still has to be a human
(55:15):
back end, because a client isn'tgoing to hire you if your
entire staff is just artificialintelligence, you know, bot set
they basically.
So the problem is, if a botspits out, do X, y and Z to
recover this active directoryaccount, then a human is going
to have to verify theinformation is actually accurate
(55:37):
and apply to that scenario.
So we will still be here, it'sjust there may be fewer of us.
I know corporations are tryingto become more like.
Basically, their idea is trimthe fat and like try to become
more valuable.
And I hate that, like Ihonestly, because I like.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Well, I hate that too , but let's be honest, and this
is where I'm going to playdevil's advocate.
Oh, go for it.
Go for it, because I've hadthese arguments A business is in
job to make money or inbusiness to make money, yeah,
yeah.
So if your goal is to makemoney and you're going to try to
make as much of it as possible,because we don't live in a, I'm
going to give everything awayeconomy.
(56:17):
We live in a.
I'm going to make as much moneyas I can.
So do I think people are greedy?
Yes, hands down nine times outof 10, they're all fucking
greedy.
Get bent.
You did not build that company.
Get out of here.
I don't care.
Right, right, but it stillstands.
So business people are inbusiness to make money.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (56:40):
I can find out to make yourself more value.
That dies the job, and I got 10people that do the job.
Now, if I can implementsomething that lowers that 10
down to three, I'm going tolower that 10 down to three.
It sucks.
I hate it, I despise it.
I think it's greedy, but it'sbusiness and so I get stuck on
(57:06):
it because I'm in the job ofbusiness enablement homie and
cybersecurity, that's what we dois enable business, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, unfortunately, it's like the devil on your
shoulder kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yeah, you know, it's the devil you know and the devil
you don't.
Yeah, I know humans and howthey act.
I'd rather have them Right.
But I'll save you money, money,what?
Ok, cool, let's go with that,yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Well, and so, going back to L1s, where people
entering the industry, myrecommendation even if it's
something you don't want totouch, get familiar with it.
Yes, that way, when conceptsabout a tool that is backed by
chat, gpt or some other AIalgorithm system is when those
(58:04):
questions come up, you cananswer it in a, even if you
don't really know it in depth,you can answer it in a educated
manner, in a way that they'll goOK, this guy can work with the
stuff because he at least knowswhat this is and what it's doing
.
Yep, and so I don't thinkreplacement in the entirety of
(58:28):
the workforce is going to be cutout entirely.
That's not going to be the case.
There's going to be a lot ofpeople who leave one company
because that company decided togo and trim some of the fat and
then they're going to go toanother company who's like no,
we want customer service, wewant those voices on the phone,
we want techs who can verifythat this bot is doing its thing
(58:54):
.
If we have AI incorporated andit will become a facet and more
probably I hate to say this, butprobably every industry will
have one form or fashion well,not a chat bot, but like a mass
information processing AI.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yeah, and we have one more question here we're going
to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (59:19):
So I do have one Well , not actually a question, but a
comment and this I feel with mydad.
My dad is Gen X, so I feel withhim.
But not just the youngergeneration, even Gen X are
saying I have nothing to hideand they think it's safe.
And this goes back to theprivacy issue and the government
involvement and AI involvementand things like that.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Yeah Well, everyone says that.
At one point, I think I'vetaught to my dad I'm like dad,
you're the most paranoid personI know and you're saying I have
nothing to hide, come search me.
I'm like dude, no, it's yourright to privacy.
That's the thing.
(59:58):
It's not a matter of whether ornot you have something to hide.
You do have something to hide.
That's your information, yourlife.
You don't want anyone to beable to access it just because
they don't click, click, click.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Yeah, and that's it and me and my dad my dad is in
GRC, my dad works in thisindustry.
I mean him still have thesearguments where he's like, oh,
the Patriot Act and all thisstuff they're trying to do with
TikTok and oh yeah, it's allgood things and let's let the
government monitor everything.
I'm like and it blows my mindbecause my dad is, we're not
going to discuss where he lieson the political spectrum, but
(01:00:34):
we're just going to saytechnically he should be for
smaller government.
And yet everything he is doingis like let the government
monitor everything.
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Fuck it, I want my safety and I'm like, oh, homie,
yeah, I know, homie, you'rekilling me Like that does not
abide by what you're for.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
I'm confused here Like what's going on.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
When you're in a field, whether it be IT, or you
get a cyber, you get thoseevangelists who are like oh, x,
y and Z, apple Rocks, eventhough Apple might be doing X, y
and Z.
That's anti-consumer orsomething.
Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Dude, look at everything.
And here's the thing Foranybody that's going to be like,
oh Apple is secure or Google issecure or whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
No motherfuckers, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.
And they're all giving it tothe government Shut the hell up.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
None of them care about you.
They're all for money.
They're businesses and they'regoing to get their money any way
they can.
Well, I use.
Do I use Apple?
Fuck yeah, I do.
Why?
Because for me it works forwhat I need, Right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
I would go for Android.
I'm not bashing on Apple, I'mjust saying use it as an example
of maybe evangelists.
You know what I mean.
Oh, you can go up other sides.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
You look at Google, if you look at those on Android
and those on Apple, the fanboyswill always be like, oh, my
brand can do no wrong and I'm afanboy, but I'm a healthy fanboy
.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
I don't try to bash on people just because I'll be
like, hey, be careful, updatebecause of this vulnerability.
But I'm not going to say don'tdo Apple, don't use whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
So, but we're coming over to top of the hour.
I got to go get with my brother.
He finally came in today.
Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
So we're going to go talk.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
I want your last bits of information and wisdom for
those trying to get intocybersecurity.
Please, James, let me know.
How can people help themselves?
Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
My recommendation learn the basics and learn, get
a good base.
A foundation will get you farand then, from there, find the
area that you want to do,whether it be GRC, it'd be
malware analysis or whatever.
Find a specific niche.
Don't say I want to be incybersecurity.
(01:02:49):
Do that and learn that.
And learn it in and out as muchas you can and be passionate
about it.
If you find that passion,you'll do it far.
If you don't, then it's goingto be a struggle.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Yeah, definitely.
I think that's the big thing,is the passion behind it, and
don't be afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Treat it as a tool, because this is not a
intelligent life form.
This is just a tool that we aregiving human influence.
So use it to your advantage,for school and everything.
Anyway, that's all, definitelynot, I don't disagree.
Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Everything is a tool to your advantage and, at the
end of the day, the passion, thedrive is going to take you far.
You don't have that if you'rechasing money or if you're just
looking for a job, it's notgoing to work out for you, but
you're going to be miserablebecause there's a lot of
research, there's a lot of stuffthat goes into it that you have
to be able to keep up with, andso you're going to make
(01:03:46):
yourself miserable by constantlylearning something that you
don't give a damn about.
Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And keep in mind we're notgoing to be replaced.
There still has to be a humanto give that stamp of approval,
to give trust, and that's whatthe engineer was saying, not the
headpiece.
So I wanted to say that to givea positive hey, we're not going
to.
L1s are not going to disappear,but it is going to affect the
(01:04:11):
market and it's going to changeroles, if that makes sense,
correct?
Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
So otherwise, look, I love you all.
As I say every time I leave anyof my videos, you're all my
workers, you're all my family.
I love every single one of you.
Make sure you follow me on allsocial media.
Make sure you look in thedescription for any time you
want to support this show.
Follow me on TikTok, follow meon all those things.
I love you all.
Take care, have a fantasticweekend and I will catch you all
(01:04:41):
next time.
See you guys, bye.
And we're back with another amazing episode of
security happy hour.
That's right, it's ya boy.
It's the cyber warrior studio.
Cyber warrior, and we are hereon cyber warrior studios now.
We got a great show planned,got a lot of big things planned,
a lot of great conversationsplanned.
But before we get into that,you know what we got to do, you
know.
You just know what's coming.
I'll be back in about 10seconds and we're back and hold
(00:35):
on, hold on, as always.
There it is the official soundsecurity happy hour kicking off.
There we go.
Have a good fray's day.
I hope this is an amazingepisode.
I plan for it to be an amazingepisode.
I got James Giles here.
Giles, I don't know how to.
There we go.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yes, it's bourbon dillies.
I.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Had a friend growing up.
Her name her, her last name wasGiles.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
So there's a lot of years here in the chat.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Thank you for joining us this evening.
As always, super chats andeverything, all that all that
stuff is turned on.
Feel free at your Disposal ifyou should so choose.
Otherwise, I'm here for y'all.
We're just gonna have a greatconversation.
So before we get into it, james, why don't you introduce
yourself and let us know kind ofwhat's bringing you into
cybersecurity?
Because I know you're, you'rethere, but not there you're,
(01:33):
you're kind of like in themiddle.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So, yeah, it's.
It's a weird scenario of I'm inum, so I've been technical my
whole life.
I started out my dad introducedus to PCs back in the 90s.
I was helping him put togetherhis PC.
He would play doom on it andsome of the classes like D&D you
(01:57):
know those old RPGs we have totype and so Essentially I grew
up hacking I do.
I grew up being the IT guy ofthe family, done a little bit
coding because my dad was asoftware engineer for hr block
and then, yeah, pretty much Idid everything from modding
(02:21):
consoles to, you know, takingapart PCs, figuring out ways to
do things that you aren'tsupposed to do with tech, and so
what ended up happening is Igot into sales and I was working
for Comcast and I worked my waythrough T-Mobile, at&t, every
(02:44):
kind of tech sales job I couldget my hands on, because I
enjoyed it.
I could talk about Androidphones and technology all day,
day in and day out, help peopleout.
Old people, like old customers,would come to me and be like,
hey, you did something awesometo my, my buddy's, friends, and
so I'd go through and set to thesimple mode where it mimics
(03:04):
like a flip phone.
So I grew up, I got into thatand then I Kept jumping jobs,
essentially, and so what endedup happening was I would jump
from one job to another, toanother.
I just couldn't enjoy it and itwas always technical work that I
(03:24):
enjoyed the most.
So eventually I got into IT andLuckily the company I'm working
at now they do both IT supportand they do security.
The big focus, the wholeculture, is around security.
So, yeah, that's time.
A bit of my background.
I don't know, I'm bad at givingthe the personal background
(03:50):
history.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the things.
You come from the samebackground, I do.
Right, you grew up kind of inIT and it's one of those things
is hard because I try to telleverybody they belong but I
can't always relate toeverybody's stories because a
lot of people are trying totransition later and and so for
(04:14):
me Coming up fixing computers atseven, eight years old, growing
up on America online anddealing with punters and chat
rooms and you know I will in init you know I was always very,
very vividly aware that if I hadanything but my own stuff that
I could go to jail, and I didn'twant to make a mistake and do
something stupid and step thatwas my issue one, two.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So I didn't want to become one of those recovering
non-ethical hackers.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
That was.
That was definitely my issue islike, because, because I
Understood the ethics and thelaws behind it as much as I
loved it, I didn't grow up in acommunity of, hey, let's bring
down the man, and, you know,let's be an orc.
I.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Have a hacker yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
You know I.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Hunt out in those communities.
I never participate.
I like.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I would have.
I would have, I would have fellright in out of it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Full bore idea of D Dawson, someone off of the net,
spots just a punk home was verytempting, but I know I'm not
gonna have Microsoft sue me, Ihad it done it.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I'd have done it all day.
I'd have been full send.
Let's go.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Long term, my ass would not do well in jail.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
But no, it's crazy because you can.
You know.
The biggest thing right now isyou know, we look at it and
there's so many differentavenues in this type of security
.
There's so many different waysin.
One of the biggest things thata lot of us talk about is the
foundations, and One of the bestways to learn the foundations
is help desk, because if you getthat a plus, if you get that
(06:15):
sec plus or net plus or whatever, that help desk gives you that
foundational understanding ofoperating systems and servers
Right.
So what would you say has beenthe biggest benefit for you
working in a help desk in termsof trying to migrate and
transition in the cyber?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh my gosh.
Um, so two things I would say.
Um, one, you're exposed toeverything.
I've helped people with Pythonissues.
I've helped people with activedirectory identity, access
management, security threats or,you know, fishing attempts or
whatever, and having to trainthem on the proper procedure,
(06:55):
how to report it.
Um, it's, it's been good forexposure, because I know a lot
of people hate help desk andpersonally there's definitely
everybody I hate about help desk, but, um, that's definitely the
exposure to everything you youhave to be able to handle a PC.
(07:17):
You have to be able to handle,um, the software within PC, the
OS, everything from the, theregistry to Gosh.
I like there's so much, I justcan't list it all.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
There is there's a lot there, and Amanda said it,
amanda.
You know she's talking about.
Right now she's going throughthe Google cybersecurity course.
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And I heard a lot good about that.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, it's been a fantastic course.
Me and her kept up on ourjourney.
What she's been learning andand it is it's very you know a
lot of foundational stuff that'sbeing taught in that course,
and so I think in that goingthrough something like that, if
you're not going to get intohelp desk or IT first, something
like those very basic thingsthat help you understand the
(08:05):
concepts and the terminology,are huge.
They are what some of the mostimportant courses you will take
and that's why I don't talk downabout security plus or GSEC or
Google or anything like thatbecause they teach you those
foundational Basics that youneed to understand Prior to
entering the industry.
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And when it comes to I know a lot of people talk
about, should I get the the aplus or the network plus, I
would say If you're young andyou're in high school or
something, sure, get the the aplus.
Um, if you're playing on,working at a computer repair
shop or something where that isyour work, yeah, do the a plus
(08:46):
and the network plus.
But when it comes down to it,learn those.
You don't have to necessarilyget the certification because A
lot of companies don't care.
There there are a lot ofcompanies are like, oh well, you
need to know this, but Likethey'll look for more experience
a lot of time.
If you have no experience, itcan be good to get, definitely,
(09:10):
um, the network plus forcybersecurity.
I would go ahead and get that.
That is one on my list, um, butI personally I'm a prime
example and I've not.
I've only talked to friendsabout how I got into um IT, but
(09:30):
like I'm a prime example of if Ican do it, anybody can, and
it's all about skill, it's allabout knowledge.
And the reason I say that isbecause I mean it's different
now, because I have it, but backin the day, when I first got
into it.
I had moved back to Salt Lakewhere I live here in Utah, and
(09:52):
then I was working Smith, so Iwas doing electric.
Before I moved back, um and Iat Smith's, at night I was doing
freight crew, so I was just,you know, stocking shelves,
taking stuff off trucks.
But while I was working I waslistening to everything any
podcast, any Set plus network,plus a plus information that I
(10:13):
could get my hands on.
I I have a treasure trove ofYouTube and books and audio
books and whatnot that I'vedeveloped over the years.
But, um, but at the time when Iapplied that, I was hired
purely for knowledge and the,the willingness to learn.
Yeah, the reason why is becauseI didn't even have my GED at the
(10:37):
time.
Right, I was able to get in andthen get my GED later on.
But get in and get on into ITand get exposure to
cybersecurity, work with doctors, work with um like Other
corporations and whatnot, whereyou're dealing with
administrators, programmers, hrstaff, you're dealing with
(10:59):
everybody under help desk.
You did that Exposure, um,that's.
I was able to do that with noGED.
Just says something stilldefinitely in knowledge played
with everything you know.
Have that, that interest toFigure out how to get something
to do what's not supposed to door what they didn't know it
could, and that's that's thebiggest thing.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I think that's.
You know, it is one thing,because, even though it
constantly changes, it remainsthe same.
And I say the same thing aboutcyber.
Oh, you know, it always changes, but it remains the same.
Foundations will always bethere how to get from point A to
point B, the OSI model, thingslike this.
They're never gonna change.
Now where they were, where theywere died, whether it's in the
(11:45):
cloud or on-prem or you know,whatever you're doing, that may
change, but the underlyingfoundations of how computers
talk, of how operating systemswork, of how All of this stuff
interconnects, that's not gonnachange, that's, that's gonna
remain the same.
Now that, with a caveat, thatwith Things like, um, what I
(12:10):
kind of remember right now whatruns Bitcoin, well, I kind of
remember right now what runsBitcoin.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Oh, Crypto you're talking.
Decentralized yeah, the decentrealized crypto currencies.
Um, I forget what they.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah but it's decentralized computing with
things like that.
Yes, that will change the game.
Oh yeah, that becomes the norm,because then it's not point A
to point B.
Right, there's a record here,here, here, here, here and here,
and nothing is Permanent.
A wall is permanent, but it'snot stationary, rather
(12:50):
blockchain.
That's it, yeah, yeah, yeahthat's that will Don't like.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
I find it funny because Stammers and whatnot,
they think they're invisible.
But you can track blockchain,like you can track where every
sale has been made.
It's in the.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Oh, you can't you can't but what I'm saying is the
meeting behind it is With theblockchain because of the way
it's decentralized, because it'sright out, because it's all
these systems, you, you havemore redundancy.
Then just oh, I'm gonna connectthis firewall and this firewall
(13:28):
.
I've got a live, I've got afailover and that's what it is.
I think once the blockchaincomes more into fruition and
Starts running moredecentralized computing, as we
are seeing now come about, thatwill that'll be a game changer.
If that, if that actually comesinto full-scale Computing,
(13:49):
blockchain will be a gamechanger.
I don't know what's gonnahappen, but I foresee certain
things triggering it to happen.
Oh, yeah, absolutely which AI Ithink will be one of them.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
AI is.
That's an interesting topic, tosay at least, there's a lot of
there's a lot of confusion whenit comes to AI and a lot of
expectations are gonna be reallyinteresting to See where that
goes.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
There's a lot of good and bad with AI.
I look at AI.
I.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Don't you want to talk about the bad first?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, let's talk about the bad, let's go, all
right, all right.
You, you had you sat down talkswith a lot of people recently.
Me and you discuss this, sowhat are the negatives to AI?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Okay, so well.
When it comes to negatives,there's the most commonly known
things like, for example,there's a company called
faceception exception.
Anyone who wants to let that up, go ahead.
They are actually selling theirservices to police forces or
(14:58):
government agencies in order toLook at your face, figure out if
you're rated as potentiallybecoming violent or positive
individual or about to dosomething based on your facial
features, and their maintenanceof that police force is what not
(15:18):
can intervene Before you evercommit crime.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
So you're talking a full-blown.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
What's that Tom Cruise movie.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I'm not sure what it is.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Because what an M?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Oh, um, oh, my gosh, I can't remember I haven't seen
it in one movie.
I know what you're talkingabout, but they had.
They had uh, people that couldsee the future.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Oh my gosh, I can't remember for life.
Um, it is the same idea.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Now I'm assuming, because you haven't committed a
crime.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Minority report.
Cody got it.
Minority report yes, yes, yeah,so that is the same thing.
I know that you're talkingabout the social credit score.
I know two governments havealready picked it up.
There's probably more, and thatis terrifying.
Now China does the same thingfor, um, facial recognition and
(16:13):
what not, when it comes to, uh,your reputation, credit score,
credit score, yeah, yeah, socialcredit store.
So with that, um, there's a lotof people that are trying to
get into the industry.
So it's like things like thatare terrifying.
Now, to an extent, you know, Ialso see where people are going.
(16:36):
Oh, this is good because it'llprevent, like you know,
shoplifting or you know whatever, like it'll be able to
centralize information, butthat's bad because it destroys
your privacy.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, and it's a terrifying concept.
It's like you know.
You're not going to get the wayAI and you look at the way
social media was going on aboutthat wallet.
How you doing, brother, good tosee you here, look, hey, which,
by the way, caveat time out.
If you were into working withyour making your money, work for
(17:10):
you go listen to about thatabout that wallet podcast.
Um, homies, good one.
Yeah, homies got a good, a goodbit of information out there,
so make sure you get the the,the way that all of the world,
the world economy, the worldcountries and things like that
(17:30):
when it comes to AI, socialcredit scores, social media, all
this stuff, I think it's goingto come to a point where we're
all screwed.
Yeah, every last one of us,because of AI, because of social
media, because of the socialcredit scores.
China was the start of it.
Yeah, but it's not the end ofthe world yet, and it's not yet,
(17:52):
but working towardsimplementing the same thing.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Well, and they have.
Also, I know some states, likeUtah, for example.
They've got your ID as adigital, like um ID you can have
on your phone.
That makes it easier for themto track you.
And I don't.
I like the convenience, I don'tlike the ability to be
constantly on the map, becausethe government has a digital ID
(18:18):
that they can check.
Now, obviously, when you scanyour ID, you know the gas
station, the liquor store,obviously it's going to pop up
and they're going to go oh, hewas here at this time and buying
this, but um, but in general,like having it on an app that
exposes your security more waysthan one, for example, location,
um, all kinds of like theycould access your mic.
(18:43):
There's a lot of things andpeople are just going to accept
the turns because they want thatconvenience.
They're not going to review andsome people might be picking.
But no, like my dad, he's goingto be picky and paranoid, but a
lot of people are going to beah, yeah, whatever, and pass
through and it's up to it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So so actually we got a really good question here
about that concept.
Yeah, about that wallet.
Would you think NFTs would bethe best for tracking?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
NFTs?
In what way?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Tracking people, tracking location tracking.
Whatever You've got an NFT, itnow has embedded code.
You can do whatever you wantwith NFTs, I mean like anything,
I guess.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Um, it depends on what it's attached to, because I
would imagine an NFT itself.
Now, I don't know.
I personally, I hate NFTs.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's digital art.
I could take a screenshot ordownload it today.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
I see the good side, but I also see where it has been
blown out proportion and so Ijust haven't bothered with it at
all.
But, um, when it comes down toit, yeah, like anything digital
can be tracked.
If I send you a packet, you cantrack that packet.
Now, if I'm on a VPN, sure thatmight change things a little
(19:59):
bit, but or Tor or whatever, butthat's not going to guarantee
that you're safe.
And I could with if I send anNFT that's also attached to like
a file or something thatredirects you, then I can get
your PC name, your, your VPN IPaddress, I can get the device
(20:21):
type, I can get the location ofwhere that VPN is sending.
So in other words, that VPNwill say you're in Germany or
whatever.
But if you're not on a VPN, Ican get almost down to your
exact location.
It doesn't matter what it isLike.
If I sent you a packet ofwhatever it could be anything
(20:42):
some file you can be tracked.
So you got to be careful aboutit.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
But here's the other statement NFTs would be used for
drivers licenses, for sure, andhe's not wrong.
That is potentially the routethey're going to go, because,
again, decentralization, we canput it everywhere.
It runs on the blockchain.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
They're watching you.
Yeah, I mean, they're going tobe watching regardless.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
But it can't be modified without you know,
modifying all the records, youknow it's a lot harder to
falsify a driver's license or anID if it's an NFT and built on
the blockchain.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
See, I need to look into the updates on that,
because I only saw when theywere talking about incorporating
it into like an app, likestructure, so like I didn't keep
up on it.
So that's one thing, honestly,our audience might be a little
bit more aware of than me, andI'll definitely have to research
it, but I'm not surprised,because with crypto, it's more
(21:46):
secure in the way of like youcan track everything, but it's
not private.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Right, and that's the big thing, right, people here?
This is where you get into theconcept of you are trading your
privacy for security.
Yep, and that is what peopledon't understand is, anytime you
are looking at making thingsmore secure, you're less private
(22:13):
.
You're more secure becausethere's more eyes on that, can
track, that can watch, it can doall these things.
Right, there's less privacy formore security, and the same
thing goes for freedom.
You'll trade a little bit ofsecurity for freedom, for our
freedom for security, orwhatever the case might be.
However you want to word it,the outcome is still the same.
In order for the big gov,privacy for convenience.
(22:37):
Another one, you know, if biggov is going to get involved,
then you are trading all yourprivacy, all your, everything,
your freedoms, and all that justfor a little bit of security
really is really secure, becauseif you look at it, in this
industry nothing is 100% secure,right, right Nothing.
(23:00):
Well and I'm talking about that6 feet underground and a block
in lead line, fucking south andbury it deep.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
That is secure, yeah Well, and that actually goes
back to the whole, since thewhole thing of this show is kind
of generally AI.
So, when it comes down to it,ai, there's two different sides.
You have the side of well.
Two sides, I mean, there's thegood and the bad.
(23:27):
So you have, on one hand, oh,this is going to be like good
for massive amounts ofinformation and being able to
what's the word, being able toprocess it super fast.
If you throw a prompt into chatGPT, when it spits it out,
that's a lot of fast information.
But when it comes down to it,and I use it now.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Did you look at my description of this video?
That all came from chat GPT.
All I had to do was take outthe expert stuff, because I hate
the term expert rightdescription came straight from
chat GPT.
I was like I'm tired of comingup with shit to say.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Right, but like.
So, for example, one of thethings that they're they're
looking into some of thecompanies I've talked to and you
know some of the some of thecompanies I worked with is
incorporating chat, gpt to be anassistant for the help desk.
So, for example, you know whenyou're you called on the phone,
(24:27):
you did the automatic thing.
Have you tried this?
Have you tried that?
Blah, blah, blah and it goesthrough and gives you options on
the phone.
Yeah, it's a pain in the butt,but what they're trying to do is
make that worse, because beforeyou ever get to us, they're
trying to make it so that youhave that assistant overlay
first and then, if it'ssomething where it's like you
(24:50):
want a person, then eventuallyyou can get your way to it.
But even that person alone isgoing to be typing away doing
how do I like unlock an activedirectory account and whatever,
and then it's gonna spit it out.
So the good thing is, likeSharePoint, we're not going to
have to go on to SharePoint andmanually search through
(25:13):
everything and you know practiceor Googling stills, but when it
comes down to it or whatevertheir information base is but
because we'll just type activedirectory, whatever, and it'll
spit it out with an exact, solidstep of x, y and z.
This is what you might do, buthere's the downside.
(25:35):
So the downside is so I asked.
I was blunt about it, I waslike in one of our meetings.
I was like so the most commonthing on the internet when it
comes to AI is will it replaceyou?
And they said, potentially allthe L1s could be replaced.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
And that's the big thing, and so I had this
conversation really bad, andAngie will get to your question
here in a second.
I do want to address that inTwitch, but as far as AI.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
That's what they want , and you know why?
Because you lost more to payfor a person, but you save it.
You become a little bit moreprofitable.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
How soon would we be able to remove Tier 1 helpdesk
with AI?
Speaker 2 (26:20):
I wouldn't say anywhere in the next like 10
years, no, so I'm not going tosay that they'll be removed and
there's a reason I'm no idea tothat when it comes to Tier 1
helpdesk.
So the issue is it's a robot.
How many times on the phone doyou get that automatic voice and
(26:42):
whatnot and you give it thepre-decided answers.
Now, in this case, you can giveit more of a custom question or
answer, but how many times doyou get frustrated with that
machine?
They want to have a humanbehind it who can back it up.
So in some cases that would belike an L2 or an L3 who's like
more skilled with it, but theypay for pay him more, but pay
(27:06):
the L1s less because they haveno more.
Well, they have less L1s, Iguess.
So the problem with that is thebarrier to entry becomes a lot
higher and I hate that because Iwant people anyone who's in
chat or whatever who really ispassionate about it and like me,
who started out no formaleducation, I was self-taught my
(27:31):
whole life.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So here's the thing about this, though, right,
that's what pisses me.
Whether it's help desk or cybersecurity, I do not feel AI
should ever replace any human.
No.
I think it should exist asanother layer to provide
information, but never replaceand me and those of hacker
valley media.
So, chris Cochran and RonaldEddings, we had this discussion
(27:55):
in their discord and on LinkedInand they said well, ai, you
know, is AI the future and gonnareplace cyber and da, da, da da
.
And I said, here's the thing nomatter what you look at, you
need human eyes because an AIonly knows what you teach it.
So if the AI only knows fromthe person that programmed it
(28:15):
what to do, what to learn andwhat to do, and go on from there
and it's a circle, and there'sanother comment here from
Infinite AI that we're gonnatouch on or actually griffin
info sec.
You know, if it only learnsbased on what you tell it and
you give it bad information,then it gives bad results, right
, right, right.
So it takes a human eye and sowhen you're looking at SOAR or
(28:43):
you know security operations ora SUC or IT help desk, look, I
have gone rounds with humans onthe phone.
Trust me, you don't want me togo rounds with an AI, because
I'm literally calling until Iget to a tier 3 I won't get to
manager and a meme.
I will go to the very top ofyour executive chain and raise
(29:06):
health, because here's the thingat the end of the day, ai is AI
, it's not a human being.
It's not gonna give me the sameresults.
So, for context, when I was Ithink I was in college or no.
I may have been graduating highschool, but I already broke my
(29:26):
computers.
I knew computers.
I knew how to fix them.
I knew all these things my dadbought four laptops.
These four laptops were piecesof shit, but at the end of the
day, they got a bunch of malwareon them for me and my three
sisters, because you know dayand age of limelight and Napster
and all that other shit, right,right.
And so the batteries were dying.
They were cheap, 400 dollarlaptops.
But he bought the service planson them through Dell and all
this other stuff, and I calledand I said, hey, I need four new
(29:48):
hard drives and four newbatteries.
And they're like well, you needit.
No, no, no, no, no.
This is what you're gonna do.
I'm gonna tell you exactlywhat's wrong with these
computers and you're gonna thensend me four new hard drives and
four new batteries.
I have a service plan If youneed me to run these shit over
with a car.
I will do it, I don't care.
They're gonna send me what Ineed and eventually they did it.
But if you're dealing with anAI, you can't get that type of
(30:12):
service.
You're gonna deal with an AIthere and tell you do this, all
right, done.
Don't be robotic.
Do this, okay, done.
Do this, okay done.
Do this, okay done.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Do this okay.
Done At the same time, it canbe structured.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Give me a human.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
That's gonna fix my issue please Right, right.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, at the same time, it can be structured
against you too as a customer.
So it can funnel you through asales chain, for example.
It can funnel you through and,unlike a sales rep, who can read
your emotion and be able totell that you're getting a
little tipped off and maybe skipahead a bit, it will force you
(30:50):
through that tunnel and make itso you have to hit every step
for you to get to the end ofthat conversation.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
And I don't wanna stick out on Angie's question
here and comment, but it's veryvalid.
Who will control what kind ofdata goes into the open source?
Chat GPT, which is sharinginternal data that could be, has
been leaked, so we know thishas happened.
We know chat GPT has sharedinternal data data from people.
(31:22):
So who is controlling the dataand the data flow?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
So, when it comes to that, never, ever ever, give
your company's information oryour personal information to
chat GPT.
And I'll explain what I didwhere I used it for my work, but
I did not give identifying data.
So I went through.
I was frustrated with this newproject because the training was
(31:49):
crap, everything was chaoticand shambles and I had a lot of
ideas about how it could be donebetter.
And so I went to one of mybuddies who's up.
He's one of the higher upmanagers at my work.
He's basically over ourlocation.
I went to him and I was like,hey, like I have this
(32:11):
frustration and he's like, well,send me like a proposition or
something.
And I'm like, all right, yeah,but I was like the next day I
hadn't seen it yet and the nextday I got so frustrated I was
just pissed.
I was ready to quit that daybecause of how bad the training
was for the new hires and whatis new project and there's, you
(32:32):
know, growing pains.
But in this case it was just alack of good trainers or knowing
how to train or like people whoactually knew what was going on
, and so like we literally hadsome days where people would
come in and start the training,the official trainer would have
everyone waiting for two tothree hours before you even
(32:55):
start and not telling them onething, and then or end it early.
It was never like a day whereone thing happened.
It was either or either weended early when we should have
been practicing or they neverstarted on time.
I was just losing my mind andbecause I was brand new but I
was training the new hires inand I'm like dude, like I don't
(33:16):
know any of this and the guyswho know are not doing the
training well, and I just wantedto rant and rave and be angry.
But I went through and I usedchat GPT.
After I wrote up this long,ranty letter and I used chat GPT
and I was like, okay, I need tosend this out professionally, I
need to send this in a way thatwon't have the emotions I'm
(33:37):
feeling right now.
How can I do this?
So I made sure to remove on anyidentifiable data, project
names, anything like that,anything related to a tool,
because you don't want some sortof context that someone can
take, because chat GPT can spewthat information out your
private information, thecompany's information, whatever
(33:59):
you give it is in its record.
So there's gotta be a way tofish it out Now.
I went through and this is bothlike the good and the bad.
The bad don't put yourinformation in there.
But the good was I went throughand was like how do you or not
how rewrite this in a way thatcould be presented to C-suite
(34:21):
executives or management, etcetera?
I put off a list like thatRewrite this.
And I put it like auto correctand whatever else, and it went
through and rewrote the entiretheme, got rid of the emotion.
There was no more anger andfrustration, no more like me
(34:42):
getting pissed off at thecomputer, just angrily errrr
type in a way.
And it wrote it in a way thatwas awesome.
It was still my words, but itwas in a reorganized and
rephrased kind of sentence.
Does that make sense?
And then I added paragraphs toit and whatnot, and it requires
(35:04):
human editing.
You wanna go through and doublecheck the information because
you don't wanna copy whateverchat GPT throws at you and then
send it to your manager, forexample.
And then I did that.
I put everything together.
It was all my words, but it wasreshaped.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, and that's the thing is going through because
chat GPT is gonna give you itsown tone of voice, its own
contact.
So if it's something you'retrying to deliver professionally
and something you're trying todeliver to convey, a certain
message.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
You have to go through and reword it, yes, and
if you don't, do that, otherwiseit's not your information, it's
not your work at that point, ifyou don't edit.
And so, guess what?
I sent it and I didn't think itwas gonna go past my manager
friend.
I was like you know, I'm gonnarant and rave and get out of my
system, never hear a thing aboutit.
(35:58):
I sent to him and then I hithim up a few hours later at the
end of my shift and I was like,hey, so about that message I
sent you with the proposal forthe change in training, like any
word on it or just forget it?
And he was like, oh no, I sentit to upper management, I sent
it to the stakeholders and theirmanagers, basically everyone
(36:22):
involved with this new project.
And he was like, yeah, it wasbeautiful, like you know, great
information, you had good ideas.
And I was like, thank you, chatGPT, you just gave me an
audience with, like thestakeholders and upper
management, all right.
And then the next week thechanges were implemented
(36:43):
Implemented most of them, notall of them, but but again this
comes down to, there's good andbad to everything.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Right and I said this when I made the post today and
even within the stream, when youlook at any technical
innovation, it comes with a goodheart usually Usually a good
heart good ideas in mind.
It can approve all these things.
But then you have those peoplethat are gonna take something
good and turn it to a negative.
(37:09):
They're gonna use it as aweapon.
They're gonna use it to theiradvantage, and so we are seeing
that now with AI.
We are seeing that, with videosthat people are buying into,
they believe the legit, the real, it's all these things, but it
is a fake AI video.
Somebody threw a face on it andsaid oh yeah, this is real.
(37:30):
This is this person saying it.
This happened.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Did you hear about the Twitter post, the one that
taint to be a stock market for aday or something?
Yeah, yeah, they posted thatthe White House had been hit or
something like that.
And then you suddenly seepeople pulling out for stock and
whatnot and I was like whoawhat.
It looked real but I couldn'tbelieve that the stock market
(37:56):
actually crashed.
And that's just human emotion.
If you fish somebody well andwith AI now fishing easy.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
But here I'm gonna say this, and for educational
purposes only if you type in achat GPT, that you wanna fish
someone, it'll tell you no.
If you tell it to write me areally good marketing email for
this purpose, it will do that.
Just in FYI, just saying Yep.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Throw it out there.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
There are ways around everything.
Again, this comes down tomalicious intent and legitimacy
Marketing.
People could use it for real.
But then you have those, thatand this is where, again, the
bad comes in A lot of yourforeign actors, at least within
the US.
So your foreign adversaries aregoing to write emails, going to
(38:46):
try to fish you with a bunch ofbullshit.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
It used to be, they had to use a translator.
That would make it brokenEnglish and it never made sense
and you could always pinpoint it.
Now all they have to do is goto chat GPT and say, hey, write
me an email that says this thatgot you homie, no problem.
And you get it and you copy andpaste it into an email and now
it bypasses every spam filterand every issue out there, and
(39:11):
you have to look through it andactually dig deeper than the
words.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Well, and the problem , though, is they still do have
a few steps.
If they live out in Nigeria orIndia or something, and they
send a message and they edit itat all, or they word it in a
weird way, like you'll noticethe weird phrasing, or why is he
talking about Toyota, whatever.
But like if they actuallyunderstand enough English to get
(39:40):
their point across and give ita prompt that it understands
correctly, then, yeah, likefishing will, unfortunately, and
to phrase this, this is fortraining purposes and
information sake.
Not, I'm not condoning any ofthis, and neither is cyber
warrior, but when it comes tofishing and whatnot, they put
(40:04):
protections in, but the problemis those protections have been
bypassed.
Why am I here?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
I know I get emails every day that pass Google, one
of the biggest fucking femaleplaces in the world, and they
pass all the rest.
They're spam filters.
Yeah, I'm like look homie, Idon't wanna see this shit.
Why is it here?
It's spam, please get rid of it.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, yeah, well, and one of the things apparently
now some publishers are goingthrough and they're not
accepting, like where you writelike a proposal for a book.
Basically they're not acceptingproposals for new books because
(40:45):
people are using chat, gpt togo through and write up huge
sections of fancy novels orwhatever that they wanna sell
and unless they've gotten toknow the person.
So if they've seen the person,they've talked with them,
they're like I can verify this,is you all right, cool.
And like if it's a way thatthey can verify that a robot
(41:07):
didn't do it, then like at thatpoint they're accepting it.
But that's just one example ofan industry that's being
affected.
Not just hope does.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
And AR so infinite and probably AI has a valid
point.
Ai is a toll.
All tolls can be used forwhatever purpose.
Anyone can weaponize any tollfor malicious reasons.
James, you have an axe on thewall Pun to all.
Bunion used an axe, differentlythan Ragnar Lothbrok, he's not
wrong.
Two different reasons.
And so when you're looking atanything, even look at something
(41:40):
like uranium uranium, when theatom bomb, when the nuclear bomb
came about, it was not uranium,was not designed for that
purpose.
It was found and utilized fordifferent reasons and they were
investigating in science,definitely trying to discover
different reasons to utilizethis.
It was the war, it was Germanyand the US that were like oh hey
(42:04):
, homie, we can do a lot ofdamage with that.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
You're gonna we're gonna use it for something you
didn't want Explosions here.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, so when you look at these things, science
takes over technology in and ofitself isn't bad, whether it's
AI, the internet or whatever.
None of this is bad.
It is the fact that you shouldunderstand that people are going
to use it for malicious reasons, right.
(42:34):
And if you do not understandthat and if you design something
, they're like oh this is allgood, this is gonna be for all
good, without realizing that thehuman mind is gonna go.
How can I fuck somebody up?
Yeah, yeah, Well and Like thatshould be your first thought.
Your first thought should notbe oh, it's all good.
Your first thought these daysshould be how can I fuck someone
up with this?
Because I know it's.
(42:55):
I know someone's gonna thinkthis.
So let's think of the negativesit can do and either try to fix
that immediately or put in sometype of warning, some type of
statement, some type of whateverthat says, hey, we know this
has the potential to be used forthese purposes.
Please be aware and cognizantthat this is what it may be used
(43:17):
for, but that is not ourinitial intent and that is not
intent at all, and this is whatit was designed for.
Again, more like a CYA, like weget what evil it can do, but
that is not its purpose.
Its purpose is for X, y and Z.
Just because someone uses itfor XX, y and Z is not my fault,
(43:39):
but we understand that that ispossible, and so that is what
you know kind of the thingsshould look at and when you're
looking at oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Son of a bitch, help me.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Do that across different email platforms.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Signing an email signing encrypted signing.
So you have an instinctive fornow, a tie to your email,
whether it's by certificate orother, and so if you sign an
email, it is supposed to beauthenticated, it is supposed to
be only coming from you, right?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
But there's a-.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
I can feel a certificate.
I can falsify a certificate.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
I can own a certificate.
So, in terms of the CIA triad,which is confidentiality,
integrity and availability,you're talking about that
integrity standpoint.
Exactly so Good, it's calledbusiness email compromise.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I was gonna say like, and also I mean, just because
it's signed by the systemdoesn't mean that anyone's going
to like necessarily payattention to that.
I'll do a van to firewall.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
But again, if you're looking, at BEC this is how a
lot of companies are gettingcompromised now.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Right and people won't be like Company A does
business with Company B.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
What I do is I infiltrate Company B.
I take an email address thatyou have interacted with before,
maybe piggyback off an emailand I now send that to you and I
say, hey, you owe us money.
Please review this invoice.
You owe us money for X, y and Z.
You're like what the hell?
I'm gonna read this invoice asbullshit.
You read that invoice and nowall of a sudden, your whole
system's compromised.
(45:23):
I now own you because I ownsomeone's email.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
And half the time you don't even know you don't have.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
No, no, because here's the thing we were
discussing it today at work is Ican sit there and drop a benign
file.
It does one thing, and onething only.
All it does is call out, andI'm gonna sit there and I'm
gonna look at it and I'm gonnawait and see if your EDR, if
anybody, catches it.
(45:50):
They don't catch it, cool, I'mgonna send a command to it.
Yep, now, when I send thatcommand, does it get caught?
Yet?
No, it doesn't get caught, cool.
So what are you running on yoursystem?
What are you doing?
And I can even use AI at thesame time.
Let's be honest.
I can sit there and write anentire artificial intelligence
script, which, in reality, is abunch of if, then else
statements.
That's all it is.
(46:10):
If this, do this, if this, dothat, whatever.
So I'm gonna sit there.
I don't even gotta do shit.
I write this script, I delivermy payload and I'm gonna walk
away If I come back in a day ortwo and I see I've pwned your
entire network.
That means your EDR and yourSOC.
We're not doing their job Right, and it's all because I
(46:31):
compromised, not your accounts,but another email.
Yep, that's all it is.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Like optimize somebody else.
That then sent you an email andyou believed it Because it was
a reply or a forward from anaccount you already do business
with.
Right right.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Well, and here's the other thing people don't think
about too If, say, when yourclients gets affected or your
service provider gets affected,then guess what?
You're not gonna know thatthat's a malicious email.
Now, because you've beencommunicating with this guy for
months now and they've beeneither supplying a service or
(47:13):
you've been supplying a serviceor whatever.
And then guess what, like nowthey've been compromised.
They don't know they've beencompromised, and now you have a
malicious person attackersending you emails.
So I mean, there's a lot ofdifferent ways that that can go
about.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, that's the big thing and I think this is where
AI is gonna come into play and,like I said, it's gonna come
down to you have things likechat, gpc, google I forget what
Google is called.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I forget what these others are called.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
But they build these AI programs which, let's be
honest, are if than else andthen they start to learn.
They program them to learnBecause you're hackers well, not
hackers, your maliciouspersonnel and your attackers
understand how to program.
They probably know how toprogram AI better than you do,
better than anybody else.
Let's be honest, they knowtheir shit.
(48:08):
If they can work around yourEDR and everything else, they
know their shit.
So what they're gonna do isthey're gonna, right now, right
now, because of chat, tbt andeverything else, they're gonna
read that source code or find away to exploit it.
They're gonna find a way toutilize all this stuff to their
advantage, and then they'regonna write something that
(48:29):
literally pivots back and forth.
And now their hands are clean.
You can't find them.
Good luck, homie.
Go after open AI.
I'm out and they own yourentire system.
I guarantee you, with open AIbeing open AI in the way it is,
in the way this code is opensourced, in the way they're able
to do things and othercompanies are open, sourcing
(48:50):
their stuff they arelegitimately going to sit there
and allow it to pivot back andforth.
I'm going to type a command tothis system.
It's gonna go here.
It's all through VPN or someother anonymizer.
It's like yo, I'm out, homie, goahead.
Good luck finding me.
They didn't cover me.
The commands never came from me.
It came from them, the same aspiggybacking off of your
(49:13):
neighbor's wifi.
Guess what?
I didn't download that.
That was them.
You can't blame me.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
The only well, that's true, but the only thing about
it is intense Proximity is thedifference is proximity between
me and chat.
Gbt is miles, thousands miles,whereas my neighbor it's like,
well, it's probably somebodythere, so we're gonna come
knocking on everybody's door.
So just because you're onsomeone else's wifi, it doesn't
(49:43):
mean you're safe.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
It doesn't, but if you're not paying attention, it
does.
Yeah, Because you've got toconsider if somebody has enabled
you to get into their personalwifi, enabled it meaning they're
not watching.
They literally probably havethe default creds.
There's nothing else there,then how are they gonna know it
was you?
Oh, yeah, yeah well and.
But now, if somebody came afteryou, or a lot of the people, a
(50:08):
lot of the warriors in chat, orme or somebody like that, I'm
gonna have logs, I'm gonna havenotifications, I'm gonna sit
there and literally all of mypasswords have been changed to
where, unless I gave you apassword you're not getting in,
which means I'm gonna knoweveryone on my network and I'm
like you're gonna go look atthis on me's computer.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Right, right.
Well, they would go look atyour neighbor's computer.
But the problem is they wouldknow that the MAC address
doesn't match Right.
So now, rbcom, I need to searchyour house for your computer.
No, but they're not.
At the very least you woulddeal with it, but the neighbor
would not get in trouble.
(50:46):
So I mean, at the very least,at least they don't get in
trouble, but they would have abit of a some explain to do
about the scenario.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, yeah, and again it comes down to how much it
looked at and you figure I got ahouse, I got a wife, I got five
boys.
Yep, there's a lot of people onthe fucking internet.
Yeah, great, because of the twocomputers I have, plus the cell
phone and a bunch of other shitrunning through my house.
So probably come to me first,because I've got external hard
drives and everything elsehooked up.
I'm like look, bitch, what wereyou doing?
(51:16):
What Shit?
What happened?
Please explain and I will giveyou access to whatever you want.
We can talk about this.
I will let you go, but explainto me what is going on before I
start giving you access.
Exactly so, and again, that justcomes down to the fact of I
(51:36):
understand, and this is why itis so important, for whether
it's me and you and those incybersecurity that understand AI
and malicious intent andwireless security, or whatever
the case may be, this is whyit's so important to understand
these things, because you maynot know that somebody is doing
(51:56):
something, but if you understandhow the concepts work as a very
, very baseline level, you canprotect yourself.
Oh yeah, because I can sitthere me personally can sit
there, piggyback off your wifiwhile I'm in the driveway,
do-do-do-do-do change my MACaddress, change my computer name
, change my IP address.
I'm literally just stealingyour internet and doing whatever
(52:19):
the hell I wanna do, and thenI'm gonna change my MAC address
back, I'm going to rotate it tosomething else, I'm gonna go do
something else, I'm gonna gosomewhere else and you'll never
know.
But guess what?
You're the one that got the FBIshowing up through your door.
Yeah yeah, exactly, so it's nothard, it's not a difficult
concept.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
No, it's not.
There's ways to do it.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
But you have to be able, and this is why I get
frustrated with the youngergeneration well, not my kids,
cause I teach them but the newergenerations that are like, oh,
privacy don't matter, or I don'tcare about wifi, or I could do
whatever I want and all thisother stuff.
Look, ai is gonna fuck your dayup.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
AI hands down is gonna mess your day up.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
It is going to ruin it.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
There is some good.
So, when it comes down to it,nowadays, unfortunately, because
all companies are trying togrow and innovate with AI,
because they're trying toincorporate it in one way or
another, oh yeah, look at allyour ADR vendors.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
We have AI and ML.
No, do you know?
You have behavioral analytics.
Shut the fuck up, right right.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
But the good thing is , if you can interact or you can
program or be able tomanipulate AI at a high level,
that will make you more valuable.
And it will also I meannowadays, unfortunately, the sad
thing about going back to thewhole help desk L1's being
replaced thing, which honestly,that pissed me off when I heard
(53:44):
that.
But that being said, with thatkind of scenario, you're going
to make yourself more valuableby becoming an AI subject matter
expert and SME.
If you can do that and you arethe guy that they go to because
they're like, hey, somethingweird happened.
(54:05):
Like you know, if a new guycomes in and something happens
and you can help them, thenyou're way more valuable.
Or if you can manipulate it ina way that's advanced, then that
will make you more valuable tothe company because you're able
to use this tool veryefficiently, effectively.
So definitely my recommendationto anyone getting in I don't
(54:30):
think L1's and L2's are going tobecome obsolete, because during
that conversation that we had,when I was having that
conversation with the guy istalking about these future plans
there were two people in theroom.
(54:52):
You have the engineer and thenyou had the guy who was trying
to headpiece the guy who knowswhat he wants but he doesn't
necessarily know how everythingworks.
Right, yeah, and so theengineer got asked next.
So, like the mouthpiece waslike yeah, like L1's, your job
could be at stake.
But the problem with that isthere still has to be a human
(55:15):
back end, because a client isn'tgoing to hire you if your
entire staff is just artificialintelligence, you know, bot set
they basically.
So the problem is, if a botspits out, do X, y and Z to
recover this active directoryaccount, then a human is going
to have to verify theinformation is actually accurate
(55:37):
and apply to that scenario.
So we will still be here, it'sjust there may be fewer of us.
I know corporations are tryingto become more like.
Basically, their idea is trimthe fat and like try to become
more valuable.
And I hate that, like Ihonestly, because I like.
Speaker 1 (55:56):
Well, I hate that too , but let's be honest, and this
is where I'm going to playdevil's advocate.
Oh, go for it.
Go for it, because I've hadthese arguments A business is in
job to make money or inbusiness to make money, yeah,
yeah.
So if your goal is to makemoney and you're going to try to
make as much of it as possible,because we don't live in a, I'm
going to give everything awayeconomy.
(56:17):
We live in a.
I'm going to make as much moneyas I can.
So do I think people are greedy?
Yes, hands down nine times outof 10, they're all fucking
greedy.
Get bent.
You did not build that company.
Get out of here.
I don't care.
Right, right, but it stillstands.
So business people are inbusiness to make money.
Speaker 2 (56:39):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (56:40):
I can find out to make yourself more value.
That dies the job, and I got 10people that do the job.
Now, if I can implementsomething that lowers that 10
down to three, I'm going tolower that 10 down to three.
It sucks.
I hate it, I despise it.
I think it's greedy, but it'sbusiness and so I get stuck on
(57:06):
it because I'm in the job ofbusiness enablement homie and
cybersecurity, that's what we dois enable business, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, unfortunately, it's like the devil on your
shoulder kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yeah, you know, it's the devil you know and the devil
you don't.
Yeah, I know humans and howthey act.
I'd rather have them Right.
But I'll save you money, money,what?
Ok, cool, let's go with that,yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Well, and so, going back to L1s, where people
entering the industry, myrecommendation even if it's
something you don't want totouch, get familiar with it.
Yes, that way, when conceptsabout a tool that is backed by
chat, gpt or some other AIalgorithm system is when those
(58:04):
questions come up, you cananswer it in a, even if you
don't really know it in depth,you can answer it in a educated
manner, in a way that they'll goOK, this guy can work with the
stuff because he at least knowswhat this is and what it's doing
.
Yep, and so I don't thinkreplacement in the entirety of
(58:28):
the workforce is going to be cutout entirely.
That's not going to be the case.
There's going to be a lot ofpeople who leave one company
because that company decided togo and trim some of the fat and
then they're going to go toanother company who's like no,
we want customer service, wewant those voices on the phone,
we want techs who can verifythat this bot is doing its thing
(58:54):
.
If we have AI incorporated andit will become a facet and more
probably I hate to say this, butprobably every industry will
have one form or fashion well,not a chat bot, but like a mass
information processing AI.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yeah, and we have one more question here we're going
to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (59:19):
So I do have one Well , not actually a question, but a
comment and this I feel with mydad.
My dad is Gen X, so I feel withhim.
But not just the youngergeneration, even Gen X are
saying I have nothing to hideand they think it's safe.
And this goes back to theprivacy issue and the government
involvement and AI involvementand things like that.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Yeah Well, everyone says that.
At one point, I think I'vetaught to my dad I'm like dad,
you're the most paranoid personI know and you're saying I have
nothing to hide, come search me.
I'm like dude, no, it's yourright to privacy.
That's the thing.
(59:58):
It's not a matter of whether ornot you have something to hide.
You do have something to hide.
That's your information, yourlife.
You don't want anyone to beable to access it just because
they don't click, click, click.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Yeah, and that's it and me and my dad my dad is in
GRC, my dad works in thisindustry.
I mean him still have thesearguments where he's like, oh,
the Patriot Act and all thisstuff they're trying to do with
TikTok and oh yeah, it's allgood things and let's let the
government monitor everything.
I'm like and it blows my mindbecause my dad is, we're not
going to discuss where he lieson the political spectrum, but
(01:00:34):
we're just going to saytechnically he should be for
smaller government.
And yet everything he is doingis like let the government
monitor everything.
Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Fuck it, I want my safety and I'm like, oh, homie,
yeah, I know, homie, you'rekilling me Like that does not
abide by what you're for.
Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
I'm confused here Like what's going on.
Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
When you're in a field, whether it be IT, or you
get a cyber, you get thoseevangelists who are like oh, x,
y and Z, apple Rocks, eventhough Apple might be doing X, y
and Z.
That's anti-consumer orsomething.
Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Dude, look at everything.
And here's the thing Foranybody that's going to be like,
oh Apple is secure or Google issecure or whatever.
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
No motherfuckers, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.
And they're all giving it tothe government Shut the hell up.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
None of them care about you.
They're all for money.
They're businesses and they'regoing to get their money any way
they can.
Well, I use.
Do I use Apple?
Fuck yeah, I do.
Why?
Because for me it works forwhat I need, Right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
I would go for Android.
I'm not bashing on Apple, I'mjust saying use it as an example
of maybe evangelists.
You know what I mean.
Oh, you can go up other sides.
Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
You look at Google, if you look at those on Android
and those on Apple, the fanboyswill always be like, oh, my
brand can do no wrong and I'm afanboy, but I'm a healthy fanboy
.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
I don't try to bash on people just because I'll be
like, hey, be careful, updatebecause of this vulnerability.
But I'm not going to say don'tdo Apple, don't use whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
So, but we're coming over to top of the hour.
I got to go get with my brother.
He finally came in today.
Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
So we're going to go talk.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
I want your last bits of information and wisdom for
those trying to get intocybersecurity.
Please, James, let me know.
How can people help themselves?
Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
My recommendation learn the basics and learn, get
a good base.
A foundation will get you farand then, from there, find the
area that you want to do,whether it be GRC, it'd be
malware analysis or whatever.
Find a specific niche.
Don't say I want to be incybersecurity.
(01:02:49):
Do that and learn that.
And learn it in and out as muchas you can and be passionate
about it.
If you find that passion,you'll do it far.
If you don't, then it's goingto be a struggle.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Yeah, definitely.
I think that's the big thing,is the passion behind it, and
don't be afraid of it.
Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Treat it as a tool, because this is not a
intelligent life form.
This is just a tool that we aregiving human influence.
So use it to your advantage,for school and everything.
Anyway, that's all, definitelynot, I don't disagree.
Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Everything is a tool to your advantage and, at the
end of the day, the passion, thedrive is going to take you far.
You don't have that if you'rechasing money or if you're just
looking for a job, it's notgoing to work out for you, but
you're going to be miserablebecause there's a lot of
research, there's a lot of stuffthat goes into it that you have
to be able to keep up with, andso you're going to make
(01:03:46):
yourself miserable by constantlylearning something that you
don't give a damn about.
Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And keep in mind we're notgoing to be replaced.
There still has to be a humanto give that stamp of approval,
to give trust, and that's whatthe engineer was saying, not the
headpiece.
So I wanted to say that to givea positive hey, we're not going
to.
L1s are not going to disappear,but it is going to affect the
(01:04:11):
market and it's going to changeroles, if that makes sense,
correct?
Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
So otherwise, look, I love you all.
As I say every time I leave anyof my videos, you're all my
workers, you're all my family.
I love every single one of you.
Make sure you follow me on allsocial media.
Make sure you look in thedescription for any time you
want to support this show.
Follow me on TikTok, follow meon all those things.
I love you all.
Take care, have a fantasticweekend and I will catch you all
(01:04:41):
next time.
See you guys, bye.
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