June 4, 2025 • 64 mins
After her eight-year-old son was expelled from school in the UK, Corianda Shepherd and her partner Joel left behind a life that no longer worked. They moved to rural Spain, bought the first house they saw, and slowly built Shepherd’s Rest—a worldschooling community where families live together, learn in nature, and reject the idea that difference needs to be managed or corrected.
This episode is not just about homeschooling. It’s about what happens when the social structure becomes too rigid, when families are stretched thin, and when children who don’t fit are sidelined. We talk about creating a different rhythm, not as an escape, but as a deliberate response to a system that has forgotten its purpose.
Corianda shares how her sons began to thrive in a quieter environment, how a diagnosis doesn’t have to define a life, and why she believes family—not institutions—should be the foundation for raising children. Together, we reflect on how the box society offers has become too small, and what it takes to build something more human outside it.
🗓️ Recorded June 3rd, 2025. 📍 Åmarksgård, Lille Skendsved, Denmark
🔗 Connect with Coriandra and Shepherd’s Rest
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jesper Conrad (00:00):
Today we are together with Coriander and you
have Shepard's Rest, and I'vebeen seeing your post on the
social media and then I gotcurious and wanted to ask you a
bunch of questions.
So first of all, welcome.
It's good to have you here.
Corianda Shepherd (00:16):
Thank you very much.
I've been looking forward tochatting to you as well.
See your posts and they lookreally exciting.
They're my colleagues.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Jesper Conrad (00:28):
So for people who don't know what Shepherd's Rest
is, if we can give it a quickcouple of words first so we know
what we're talking about.
Corianda Shepherd (00:37):
So Shepherd's Rest is a full-time world
schooling community.
That's how we put it.
We're open all year round andwe say one month minimum stay
here so that families get achance to connect.
And we spend a lot of time innature and we don't really offer
a program as such, although onoccasions we do for certain
(00:59):
structured months, but on thewhole it's pretty
unstructuredructured,self-directed and just people
getting together with communitymeals each week and odd days out
and meetups yeah, and where arewe in the world?
Cecilie Conrad (01:14):
we don't know it's all important, actually
isn't it well, only for thosewho want to come, I mean true, I
want to hear about it.
It could be anywhere.
Corianda Shepherd (01:23):
We're in Oria , andalusia, which is in Almeria
, so we're in Spain and we'vebeen here since 2015, 10 years.
Jesper Conrad (01:33):
Wonderful, and how old are your kids?
And stuff like that.
Corianda Shepherd (01:36):
So I've got six children.
The oldest is 28 and nevermoved to Spain with us because
she was already in uni, and thenext one down is 26 and didn't
come with us because she wasalready in uni, and the next one
down is 26 and didn't come withus because he was in music
school.
However, we've now got one ofthose over here, so we've got
three here and three in Englandbasically.
(01:57):
But yeah, the ones that wetraveled here with at the time
were 10, 8 and 7, and then we'vesince had Magnolia and she's
now 8.
So two years before we hadMagnolia.
So then we had four childrenhere and we've done a mix of
school system and homeschoolingsince we've been here, but they
(02:17):
all finished by homeschoolingfor at least the last two to
three years, and Maggie has beenhomeschooling since well, a
good, clear year, and we dabbledwith it beforehand as well, but
it's just what suits her best,really what led you to leave UK,
besides the weather, yeah,obviously that was a strong one.
(02:40):
At the time I was in the UK, Ihad three boys and two girls.
My three boys are all on thespectrum with high functioning
autism, and two of them alsohave ADHD and one has Tourette's
with the autism.
They didn't fit the system, andI used to be a parent that
(03:02):
thought that more should be putin for my children and they
should be able to be treated asindividuals, and I used to be a
parent that thought that moreshould be put in for my children
and they should be able to betreated as individuals, and I
used to fight for whatever Icould for any children that had
needs like this so that theycould stay within a system.
I've really, really changed mywhole idea on this since trying
homeschooling.
Since trying homeschooling,because what I can see is that
(03:27):
then why should someone elseprovide something for my
children when we can provide itfor ourselves the very best
thing for our children?
We know our children inside outand we can see where they
struggle, where they're strong,and for me, I want my children
to grow up with positivitysurrounding them instead of the
negatives.
So when we were in the UK, theboys all had a lot of issues
(03:49):
around the structure of school,around the social side, with too
many people and one of themactually got expelled at eight
years old Probably pushed us tolook at things a bit clearer and
question things a little bitmore, as they always have done.
A lot of people believe thatyour children choose you as a
(04:11):
parent.
I definitely feel that way nowand I feel like my boys,
especially, have taught me many,many lessons that I needed to
know and needed to learn, andI've grown so much from that.
That I needed to know andneeded to learn and I've grown
so much from that.
Joel and I met in 2014.
And we got together January2015.
(04:34):
I said to him that I'd beenthinking about moving to Spain
and would he like to you know,give it a go, and everything.
And so we came out here in theMarch, found the property,
property.
We just looked at one house,the house I'm in right now and
we loved it and we thought, yeah, this has got scope for
something.
So joel and I, after being Ithink, we were only five months
(04:55):
together, we moved to spaintogether with, like I say, the
seven, eight and ten year oldand started life out here.
Cecilie Conrad (05:03):
Wow, amazing.
Jesper Conrad (05:07):
I've never met anyone with Tourette's and when
I see it portrayed it almostseems unreal, because the clips
you see are like is that fake?
Isn't it fake?
Is it just one clip?
So my curiosity if it's okay,how is it in reality living with
it?
Corianda Shepherd (05:23):
So in reality for my, my son, it's actually
quite easy because, number one,he has a different sort of
Tourette's, that's mainlyphysical tics other than verbal.
So he very rarely has a verbaltic.
If you are trying to watch afilm alongside him he is 20 now
but you can sit next to him andwatch a film and he will make
little noises but nothing thatreally affects anything, but
(05:47):
it's the motion of like maybehis shoulder or something.
If it is touched or if a friendcomes up and doesn't realize
that he has these sensitivities,they will touch him or brush
past him and that will set offhis tics.
Set off his tics.
(06:07):
He actually he's really supercool.
I really love the fact thatwhen he was maybe 14 and he was
really struggling with some ofthis and the tics became very
prevalent in his life and again,teenage years, you know you're
with all these and everythingand people start asking like,
why are you doing that?
You know doesn't help.
No no, and then the insecuritiesand the anxiety comes out more.
So he said to me oh, do youknow anyone that might be able
(06:31):
to help me with this?
I just want to get a handle onit.
And he's always been verylateral thinking and calm and I
said, yeah, so they think Imight know someone.
And my friend did this treatmentcalled say no mentology and you
are treated, you are liketaught by this one.
I go, I guess he's like a guruor something in say no mentology
(06:51):
.
He came up with the wholeprocess and it's my son puts it
in a way like it's halfmeditation, half hypnosis.
But it's all about you don'tneed to be seen very many times,
you don't need to speak toomuch, which was great, because
he'd started holding in hiswords quite a lot and become
quite introverted.
But it was all about relaxingand listening and learning to
(07:16):
think more about yourself andhow you perceive yourself and
how you want to be perceived byother people.
Therefore, you're getting thestrength for you and not taking
on other people's problems,because he is incredibly
sensitive.
So after this, after he had thistreatment when he was 14, it
was like 45 minutes he walkedout the room, a different person
(07:38):
, lots of areas of his life,really caught up, I would say
and he gained a sense ofself-worth and a sense of
confidence that has just carriedon growing.
I think he's had threeappointments altogether.
We still know the lady thattreated him and I thank her like
loads because, honestly, itjust made such a difference, and
(08:01):
I'm a great one for alternativetherapies.
If there's something out therethat you can try an alternative
therapy for, why take medication?
I'm really glad that he wasopen-minded, because a lot of
people aren't, and especially alot of men and a lot of children
also.
They're worried about you knowwhat it means to try all these
different things that are, youknow, classed as sometimes
airy-fairy or a bit hippie youknow.
Cecilie Conrad (08:24):
Yeah, just ask our kids well, was it another
hippie idea?
You've got there, or does itactually work?
And yeah, you just like try it.
Corianda Shepherd (08:35):
Well, if your symptoms disappear, I would say
it worked, you know, yeahexactly, or lyndon saw this
firsthand so he was just like hewas super happy and has just
moved on loads.
His tics are now minimal.
He's actually when he was eight.
He didn't speak for a year when, so he was selective mute and
(08:57):
now he's recorded songsprofessionally just cover songs
and stuff.
But he's recorded songsprofessionally and that's a love
of his that he did have beforehe stopped speaking, so I knew
it was in there all the time,but now he's like everything's
coming out, you know which isgood so how old are they now?
I need to just understand, yeahso I've got Terea, and she's 28,
(09:20):
beckham's 26, lyndon's 20,holby's 19, talia's 17, and then
I've got magnolia, who's eight?
Cecilie Conrad (09:29):
all right so yeah, so we've got the 26 most,
actually through the whole, yeah, regular school age, and you
see yeah, yeah, most of them.
Corianda Shepherd (09:40):
So all 17 and above, except for Matt and
Maria.
Cecilie Conrad (09:43):
Yeah, yeah, but other than I'm sorry, go on.
Corianda Shepherd (09:48):
Sorry, I was just going to say other than the
oldest one.
All of them have beenhomeschooled for at least two to
three years, which made amassive difference.
Cecilie Conrad (09:58):
I just noticed.
So we have four, and one hasbeen in alternative schools and
the three others have never beento school and I've just noticed
with mine and also with otherhomeschooled kids that I've seen
and known about.
You know you get thequote-unquote results quite late
.
Corianda Shepherd (10:18):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (10:19):
You know, it's when you come out on the other
end that you can see, oh, thisreally meant a big deal, whereas
when they're small maybe alsoyou're a beginner homeschooler
it's all these milestones of dothey read, or minor things that
actually don't matter, yeah, andthat they all obviously learn
(10:39):
at some point, that you thinkabout because you kind of
wrapped up in the system and youhave this age marker thing
going on.
But then, as you say, now youknow, you see your son, he might
have some sort of diagnosis10-15 years ago and today, yeah,
exactly, does it matter?
When you're not interviewed fora podcast, probably you know
(11:02):
it's crazy.
Corianda Shepherd (11:03):
Like you say, I feel like even their
diagnosis for me at the timebecause again, would I get them
diagnosed now as who I am now Atthe time being in the system, I
felt it would offer them help.
Yeah, and I also didn't wantthem put on medication, so I
wanted to understand more fromprofessionals as to where I
(11:24):
could begin to help them andread up on it.
So I don't think I regret it,but I think the emotional
regulation is just a little bitslower and the more time they
have in the right environmentthey're not far behind.
That's what I found.
Cecilie Conrad (11:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny how it changes when you
change the context, right yeah,exactly, environment was a
massive thing actually.
Corianda Shepherd (11:52):
I have to mention that because moving here
wasn't solely for the boys, itwas for the whole family.
My grandparents lived in Spainwhilst I was growing up and I
spent most of my holidays withthem from probably 12 years
onwards, and they had a place onthe beach and a place in the
mountains, and I loved being upin the mountains.
(12:13):
Now I'm from a busy city,brighton, on the south coast,
and it's always packed cars,noise, trains, buses, you name
it.
You can't go anywhere withoutjust general noise and chit chat
.
That really got to my boys.
They were wearing ear defendersand stuff like this and
everywhere we went they couldn'tcope with the numbers of people
.
(12:33):
We came here to find somethingthat would allow us all to relax
a bit more.
To actually become morecohesive as a family and be able
to provide something for ourchildren was the initial thing.
So we bought somewhere that wasa lot cheaper, that we could
afford to buy outright.
That meant that Joel and Icould become full-time parents
(12:56):
to the children instead of bothbeing self-employed and out at
work.
So we spent the first two yearswith the children settling them
into school, and well, wedidn't even know if we were
going to send them to school.
The children met other childrenat the park, found out that
there was only seven children ineach year group rather than I
(13:18):
think at their last school therewas 190 in each year group.
The school had over a thousandpupils, so this school had 70
complete.
They asked can we try theschool?
And I was like, of course youcan.
You know you want to try it,let's go for it.
Did incredibly well, so I justneed the number again.
Jesper Conrad (13:43):
You're saying seven on each year group.
That is a luxury.
Yes, sounds almost unbelievable.
I know when you think aboutthese schools that are out there
today.
Corianda Shepherd (13:53):
Yeah, exactly that, a three-minute walk from
the house.
Seven children in each year,ranging from three years to 14
years.
So, like you say, all is good.
You know, that's very lucky,fortunate, to have on your
doorstep, and it allowed thechance for the three of them to
go to school, learn Spanishfluently, which they did, which
(14:15):
is fantastic.
I'm learning all the time, butI'm pretty reasonable and I do
speak Spanish every day, personto person, because I feel that
for me, that works.
I do speak Spanish every day,person to person, because I feel
that for me, that works, and Idon't mind laughing at myself if
I get something wrong.
I'm not perfect, you know.
So if you move somewhere, Ifeel you've got to embrace and
also show your children how tofit in and integrate, you know
(14:37):
yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (14:40):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (14:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Coriander, I would like to askyou how moving to Spain have
changed your perspective onwhere you came from, the society
you came from, the culture, howyou were as a person before
versus how you are now.
(15:01):
Yeah, how had it unraveled inyour life?
Corianda Shepherd (15:09):
So I was always quite a free thinker and
maybe, like many people, thoughtI was a bit of a daydreamer or
something like that.
When I met Joel, I felt likeI'd met my match and we both had
the same sort of plans.
We're both quite impulsive, butwe both felt very restricted by
our environment that we were in.
We thought a bit differently.
(15:31):
We're more creative sort ofpeople that want to be doing
stuff for the local community.
We've always been involved incommunity projects Joel with
videography and filming, andmyself and photography and
myself with music promotion andband management and things like
this.
So we already had that side tous where we knew like
(15:51):
entrepreneurial sort of thingswhere we could make something up
, come up with somethingtogether.
So we started making plans forcoming out here.
And, yeah, back there I waswhen the children were young.
I was 19 when I had my firstchild and at that age I was
quite a conformist, quite ananxious I guess anxious or maybe
(16:16):
shy more than anxious person.
I couldn't use a bus, Icouldn't go on a bus and ask for
a ticket, which is seems nowlike that was not me when I was
young, if I needed to go on abus and ask for a ticket, which
is seems now like that was notme.
When I was young, if I neededto go to my friend's house 12
miles away, I'd get my mountainbike out and I would ride there
I liked.
I was always outdoorsy so itwas no hard shit, but I just
(16:39):
something always niggled at me.
I didn't just just quite fit.
Do you know what I mean?
And for us, we always wanted toprovide something for our
children that fitted better.
Joel took on the role of, likestepdad the children don't call
him stepdad because they wereJoel's actually only 35 and I'm
48.
So he was 25 when we gottogether and it's worked
(17:03):
perfectly.
He's a great friend to theolder children and a great
support.
They call him as well.
If I'm too close to thesituation sometimes, or they
think he can help, they'll givehim a call.
They've got their dad around aswell.
So you know, like it's havingtwo male role models, which is
fantastic.
And yeah, it's been a realgrowth, I suppose, for me
(17:26):
personally.
But, like I say, a lot of thathappened because of the children
.
So when they had needs, Irealized I had to adapt.
I can't let them struggle.
I need to move forward withthis and know that I'm going to
be able to provide for them as aparent.
That's what you want to do toenable them to get somewhere in
life that they going to be ableto provide for them as a parent,
that's what you want to do toenable them to get somewhere in
life that they want to be.
(17:47):
So, yeah, I mean, steppingoutside of that was quite
difficult for me because myfamily, we all talk and get on,
but you know you can't haveexactly the same opinions, even
though you've been brought upthe same way.
I'm the oldest of five childrenand none of the others agree
with homeschooling and variousother things that we've decided
(18:09):
to do or not to do.
So, leaving that situation withthree boys, you know, diagnosed
and everything, we would fall.
Don't do it.
You're crazy.
Everyone.
We had so many agenciesinvolved with helping with the
care of the boys and things likethat.
They were all just going.
Are you crazy?
What are you doing?
You're taking away everythingthat they know and you're taking
(18:30):
them abroad where they don'tspeak the language.
They have flown, they haveflown.
It's been the best thing, and Iwant other people to know how
much things can change when youreally look at yourself deeply
and look at your familysituation and think why are we
struggling?
What is not right here becauseyou have the strength and the
(18:53):
power to change it for yourfamily and what can go wrong if
you just try something.
So it's definitely worth a try.
Initially when, when we got here, the house needed to bring up,
so it was completely empty.
It just had windows and doors,no floor tiles, no bathrooms,
nothing.
So we rented for a year.
(19:14):
We kept our house back in theUK, rented that out and then,
once everyone had settled here,so we did have a little bit of a
safety barrier.
Then, once everyone had settled, we thought, right, a little
bit of a safety barrier.
Then, once everyone had settled, we thought, right, sell up,
put the money in over here.
So we did up the house and we'vegot three apartments attached
to the house so that, like I say, we knew when we looked at the
(19:37):
property this has potential todo something.
So initially we had a lot offriends that were yoga teachers
or poi teachers or circus skillsand things like that.
So we started with the idea ofhosting the teacher and they
would bring their students withthem for yoga.
We did a few yoga retreats andwe also were lucky enough to be
(20:00):
followed by a uk tv channel,channel four, and they followed
us for a year and that was in2019.
And so that was called A NewLife in the Sun, where they
basically follow people thathave moved abroad and started a
business and see how it's going,and then they visit every
couple of years and spend a daywith us just to like update
(20:22):
what's going on in our project.
Jesper Conrad (20:24):
That's not bad for business, huh no, it's not
bad.
Corianda Shepherd (20:28):
It was difficult, though, being
followed around when you'resuper busy, but the camera guys
were great it I mean to be fair.
Like I was saying, I was anervous, shy person when I was
younger and I hated my phototaken.
I couldn't sit like this infront of a camera.
It doesn't feel natural to me.
It's getting easier because I'mjust less.
(20:49):
I'm trying to not even thinkabout it, if you know what I
mean.
That's sort of what you've gotto get past.
Yes, caring, you know.
So, yeah, it was a reallearning curve another one, so
but we did well out of it.
You know.
It got us known a little bit.
The local thing got toappreciate what we were doing
over here as well, and then wejust thought, when we had
(21:10):
Magnolia and we just looked atthe situation and we thought the
yoga retreats were fun and theywere lovely people, but it
didn't fit our family very wellbecause it was bringing lots of
adults into a situation.
But we had lots of children.
We had four young children, sowe wanted to then create
(21:32):
something that would provide forour children and mean that we
were around more and, even if wewere working, that they could
be included more instead ofquiet time here, and you've got
to be this and you've got to bethat.
That's what we wanted to avoid.
So it's amazing how organicallyit happened.
Actually, we had a reallylovely lady, an australian lady
(21:52):
called sarah, and she came withher husband and four children
and, like I know her, I thinkyou might yeah, most
homeschoolers should know her.
I think she's been a big part ofit for years.
Right, for like five years Ithink they did traveling.
I think they were only meant todo a year or two, but they
(22:13):
stopped with us all together.
I think it was only aroundseven weeks, but I think it was
like a four-week block and thenthey came back because the kids
got on so well.
So they really opened our eyesto the home schooling, the
unschooling.
We had lots of conversationsabout it.
We didn't agree on everything.
(22:34):
It was very new to us, like Isay, and we were like, oh, do
you reckon that can work?
And we were the ones going, oh,but what about further
education?
You know?
And and these are the question,yeah, yeah.
And this is the hilarious thingnow, because I'm working as a
home educational consultanttelling all these other people
now that are just new into itand panicking and going I can't
(22:57):
do this, I can't help mychildren, and what about this?
And what about their exams?
And they're not going to go tocollege?
And I'm just like slow down,sit down, sit back, relax.
And this is exactly what Sarahwas saying to me.
She was just like you, just youget it, you know.
And, yeah, we just realized howmuch it would work for our boys
(23:18):
especially.
And, yeah, once, once we gotinto it, more and more things
clicked into place really, andit just became our way of life.
I don't know if we're classed asunschoolers or homeschoolers.
Really we don't do sit downlessons as such, we don't have
set times for anything, but ourdaughter's been reading since
(23:42):
she was six, by choice, becauseshe would see other children
come here and she'd make friendswith them.
And we had some lovely twingirls from Canada that were here
and they were just goingthrough all the books.
We've got a library out thefront and a playroom and she was
sitting out there with them andshe was going are you really
reading all of that?
And my daughter was like wow,and she said I really want to
(24:05):
learn to read.
And again, like you were sayingearlier, we don't need to force
our children.
You can put things in their wayand they can choose what they.
You know what's around themthat they want to pick up, and
it's so nice to see them followtheir own heart, their own
timings and their own rhythm.
Jesper Conrad (24:24):
Yeah, I remember the first time we met someone
who decided to homeschool.
It was two or three houses downon the road we lived.
Now they live in Spain, Dawnand Marcus and their family
wonderful people.
Cecilie Conrad (24:41):
Do you know them ?
No, I don't.
They're in La Andalusia as well.
Yeah, so I feel like I did awhole podcast series with Sarah
Beale.
I mean, I know her quite well.
I was kidding, okay.
Yeah, we spend a lot of timetogether, yeah.
Jesper Conrad (24:57):
And we must actually have been together with
them right before they visited.
Yeah, we were together inGranada for the World's First
Singing or something.
Corianda Shepherd (25:05):
See Granada.
They left here to go to Granadaand then they came back here.
Jesper Conrad (25:09):
Ah, how fun, Then you met her first.
Cecilie Conrad (25:12):
No, it's not about that.
No, small world, no.
Corianda Shepherd (25:16):
Yeah, I can imagine that she's probably
influenced a good few hundredpeople in her lifetime.
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (25:23):
It happens when you meet people and talk to them
and they get their eyes openbecause a podcast hours, like
many others out there, is stillrelevant.
Yeah, even though I amsurrounded by people who world
school or homeschool or unschooloften.
Corianda Shepherd (25:42):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (25:43):
Then I remember how it was before.
Before I had heard abouthomeschooling, I was like it
sounds weird, is it reallypossible?
And all the questions and fearsyou have.
Then, when you meet someone whoshares about it and even better
, when you meet someone who haskids you look at them and
(26:06):
they're actually just normal.
Corianda Shepherd (26:08):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (26:08):
The big, big inspiration to see how they
interact with each other, talkand really like the sharing part
of it when people are actuallyinterested, not when it's the so
will they ever get socialized?
The two minute question we wereat a wedding here recently
(26:28):
where a guy who was like, ohthat sounds interesting, do you
want to share?
And we ended up sitting talkinga couple of hours and I I look
forward to see what happens insome years when they get
children, because I'm like thatseed was planted there that will
route into a new homeschoolingfamily and that's how it happens
(26:49):
, right, and I think more andmore people are coming on board
with this idea.
Corianda Shepherd (26:54):
I don't know I mean, I don't look too much
into where does autism come fromor anything.
We've just sort of dealt withit as we go and we've dealt with
it very positively.
We've managed to stay away frommedications and things, however
.
So, along with what Sarah didfor us, she opened our eyes and
we thought you know what?
There's so many people doingthis.
(27:14):
We could provide something likethis because this would suit
our children down to the groundand then we could hopefully
enable other families not justwith children with difficulties
or learning difficulties or anybehavioral issues or anything
like that, but everybody wecould have families stay here
(27:35):
and they can connect with peacearound them, space around them,
not to be forced by a system.
So we actually changed ourbusiness, partly because of what
we saw in the potential fromwhat Sarah was telling us about,
and we changed our life to fitand our business to fit our life
(27:57):
.
So it happened quite quicklyand we only we came off of
Airbnb, because obviously youcan't then choose who your
guests are, so we had onlyfamilies.
So we were a little quiet instarting up, but then we carried
on with all the advertising andnow I would say I would say
we're quite well known, like alot of people in the world,
(28:20):
school environment, seem to knowus and pass details on to other
friends.
A lot of it is word of mouth.
So when people have anexperience somewhere and find
that it fits their family anddon't get me wrong, we know that
we don't fit everybody no hubor community will fit every but
every family, because everyoneis looking for something
different and everyone has theirown agenda for doing this as
(28:44):
well.
So we have had some struggles,but we have mainly had, I think,
we always say it's about 95,absolutely fantastic.
The five percent it hurts.
It really does, because you aredoing just the same thing as
you were doing with the 95 whenit works.
So you know you've got it rightand you know you've got your
(29:05):
whole ethos set to where youshould be, but it just doesn't
fit for some people.
So you have to swallow that andjust go right, let's carry on.
And you know, hold your pie andkeep going with this, because
we know we're doing somethingright.
Cecilie Conrad (29:21):
We're so vulnerable socially yeah we're
really little things thatactually are small.
They hurt a lot, yeah, but Ithink they should.
I mean, if we toughen up, thenwe just let go of our humanity,
and we don't want that either.
Yeah, exactly.
Corianda Shepherd (29:41):
We've had families here that have been to
other hubs that I think arefantastic and I've been in touch
with them for years.
We've had people here that havehad a fantastic time time, but
they've written massivecomplaints about the other one.
And then we've had the otherway around.
We've had someone in complaintsabout being here, but they fit
over there and it.
When we looked at it the me andthe other owner of the of their
(30:03):
group we looked at it and welooked at the ages of the
children and the makeup of thefamily and actually we could see
actually where one fitted onemore than the other and actually
it just wasn't a good makeupfor things straight away, and so
you need to really look at thatand try and sell exactly what
you've got, not more.
(30:24):
We're as down to earth and asbasic as we can be with the
information, putting on regularvideos, not telling people that
we're providing things we're not.
We have a community meal whichwe love.
I mean, that's just a bring andshare meal and it's usually
every Sunday afternoon.
We'll do a little bit of art,maybe once or twice a week.
If someone says, oh, doesanyone fancy a wander up to the
(30:46):
market, then I'll take all thenew family, we'll go up to the
market, then we'll do a littletour of the village.
It's only a small place butagain it's getting all the
families together and we've justhad a family here that left
three weeks ago and a familythat left this week.
The family that left this weekare going over to the UK.
They weren't even going to theUK before and week going over to
(31:10):
the UK.
They weren't even going to theUK before, and now they've
booked five days with the familythat left a couple of weeks
before because they've just metand their kids got on and my
daughter did as well.
It's amazing when you see thoseconnections and the parents too
, because it's not just aboutthe children, it's the family
situation and I think if you'retraveling it can be quite a
lonely place to be, depending onon what children you've got and
(31:31):
you know what ages they are andthings.
But connection is such anunderrated thing.
Jesper Conrad (31:38):
Yeah, I actually think that when I look back at
the life I had back inCopenhagen before we started
full time traveling, then therewas absolutely a community and a
lot of it came from thehomeschooling environment.
But if I look back before that,then I tried to serve my social
(31:58):
needs by the workplace andbecame friends with the people I
worked together with and stufflike that, stuff like that.
And I really love this deepercommunity feeling of living
together with people co-livingor living close, and I actually
think that we sometimes in thenormal eight to five everyday
(32:24):
job kind of lifestyle forget tohave a social life but we have
got our social appetite likedwelled or satiated by going to
work yeah, yeah, I would agree.
Corianda Shepherd (32:42):
That's how a lot of people manage.
It's like they're notnecessarily choosing their
social life.
It's sort of happening and, inthe very small amounts of time,
the snippets of life when you'reworking those hours.
And that quickly became veryrelevant to me because when I
became a single parent, I wassingle mom of five children for
(33:06):
five years.
So was just like right, whatcan I do?
So I set up my own promotion,my music promotions company and,
like I say, joel was alreadyworking alongside my company
with his company and four otherpeople who I knew two of them as
well.
So our community was with work,but it was a very creative
(33:27):
community and we I mean we'restill very good friends with all
of them now so it was more likewe chose our work life a bit
more.
It wasn't set hours and I thinkI was lucky to be able to do
that actually, but I only did itbecause I was pushed out of the
mainstream system.
I couldn't go and get a nine tofive job, so it almost helped
(33:50):
me find my circle.
Because of being a young mom orbecause of I was such a young
mom, but because of the boyshaving the issues they did one
being expelled at eight I had noone else who was going to take
him on and it was my job, right.
So I went back to uni and I wasdoing music and event
management.
My daughter was in the roomnext door doing their
(34:12):
performance music performance.
So we were at uni together,which was fantastic.
It was great fun and ourclasses worked together.
But again, I didn't finish thecourse.
And do I look at that and feelregret?
No, because I was needed withmy other son and he was 14 at
the time, so I couldn't finishthe course, but I was there for
(34:33):
him and that's what it enabledme to do.
I learned a lot and I was ableto continue with my business.
So I got everything but thepiece of paper saying that I'd
passed or whatever you know.
So to me, I always feel likeI'm grateful for the experiences
I've had, and also I'm gratefulthat I've got an open mind and
(34:54):
I'm just probably annoyinglyoptimistic in quite a few
situations, I think.
Cecilie Conrad (35:01):
Well, that makes you aim for the good stuff.
I think, yeah, it's a veryhealthy view.
It will create momentum in theright direction.
I was thinking this lifestylethat you've chosen, where you
choose the people you hang outwith, shutting down the Airbnb
and then choosing what familieswill come, and, of course, you
can't predict the future.
(35:21):
Unfortunately or maybefortunately none of us can do
that it just reminded me of.
We're fully nomadic and havebeen for seven years, and the
funny thing is we often get thequestion so how do you decide
where to go and what's on yourbucket list and what's the next
countries you want to visit?
(35:42):
And actually the reality hasbeen for the majority of the
time.
I'd say after maybe two orthree months, we realized the
adventure is the people, not theplace.
Yes, we don't choose where togo, we choose who to go.
You know, who do we want to gowith?
Do we want to travel with ussomewhere?
(36:03):
Yeah, or who do we want tovisit?
Or where is there a communitythat we could?
We don't do that.
Actually, we haven't done a lotof hubs and communities.
No, we just you know, oh, wehave some friends over there,
but we could bring these friendsand that would be a great match
.
And you know it's.
You know so funny how life isabout who you share it with I
(36:25):
absolutely agree fully nomadicand you think you want to see
the great pyramids and whateverrivers or cultures, or now I do
enjoy that.
It's just yeah, it's justnumber nine on the list.
When I think about where I wantto go, it's the first thing is
who do we?
Corianda Shepherd (36:44):
want to hang out with.
I'm totally with you on that.
And obviously where we're at atthe moment we don't go away
very often, so it's like havinga staycation, as they would call
it, and the people come to usagain.
That's suited where we wereback then because my boys didn't
like going away and I've stillgot one that doesn't really stay
away from the home, he justprefers.
(37:06):
Like you know, there's thisEnglish saying an English man's
house is his castle, Likeeverything is there, you know,
and he is very much like thatsuited what we needed at the
time.
But as Maggie gets older and themore and more people that come
through, we are doing like youwere saying about meeting people
that we then want to travel toor travel with.
(37:27):
We stay in touch and we've hada lot of return guests.
So over the last three yearswe've probably got five regular
families that come back and it'sgetting more each year.
There'll always be anotherfamily and I think we've just
met three great families in thelast two months that have
already said oh yeah, we'recoming back.
You know just the call Cause.
(37:48):
Oh yeah, we're coming back.
You know just the call becausewe're coming back soon.
And just to make thoseconnections is amazing.
And again, actually some ofthem come from the UK where,
like you say, the weather is notgreat.
But I'll go because the peoplethat we feel like part of their
lives, that is far more excitingto think, right, let's go and
(38:10):
hang out with these people thatwe love being around, the energy
that it creates, the vibe, isso much better than going
somewhere to see a building orsomething.
Yeah, I love architecture anddifferent countries and things
like this and different cultures, but sometimes it's just got to
be the basics of the people.
Jesper Conrad (38:29):
Oh yeah, and things are just better shared.
One of the first big trips wetook was like a month at
Tenerife many, many years agoand there we met up with the
brother of a friend and wetalked about why they had moved
and stuff like that, and he toldabout a ruined marriage back in
(38:51):
Denmark and how it was, and oneof the things he said that was
quite interesting and had thislong-term effect on me was that
he said the sunset is morebeautiful shared.
Corianda Shepherd (39:05):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (39:06):
And I think everything is more beautiful
shared, even us as a family.
We are five when we travel fulltime and two dogs, and it's
really wonderful and we can havea lot of joy together.
But us with another family, Iactually enjoy that even more.
There's more people to shareexperiences with, talks with,
(39:28):
and the sunsets just gets better.
Yeah, share them.
Corianda Shepherd (39:32):
Absolutely.
Cecilie Conrad (39:33):
Agree yeah.
Jesper Conrad (39:35):
Yeah, yeah.
What was your dream when youwere young?
Was it to end up on amountainside?
Corianda Shepherd (39:42):
So my nan lived here from when I was 11.
And so I visited from aroundthat age and my nan always told
me she was like a best friend tome, we called each other every
day and she passed away 19 yearsago so just after my son was
born, maybe a few weeks after hewas born and she always said to
(40:05):
me, corrie, you're gonna be insomeday.
And I love to obviously thinkthat and at the time I wasn't so
in control of what was going onEverything seemed to be
happening to me and me nothaving much control of what was
going on going forward.
So yeah, I mean I guess I madethings happen.
(40:25):
I started looking at things, atpossibilities, starting my own
company, working out, you know,getting the children to the
right ages as to when it couldwork for us.
But also a lot of it happenedto us.
So I then adapted and adjustedand my nan was a great person
for the outdoors as well.
She had my dad's the oldest offive, and so then I was the
(40:49):
oldest of five as well and shewas also the oldest of five.
So there's like there wasalways this strong connection.
She loved camping and when sheused to take my dad and all of
the family camping.
She would take loads of otherkids as well.
She was the mum that did that,that.
That was always surrounded byall the other children and she
(41:09):
loved adventure.
She had a great heart foradventure and a great sense of
fun and I wanted to carry someof that, you know, and I feel
like I do.
I've got something there thatconnects me still, even though
she's gone, and I'm so glad andI know she knows I'm here, you
know.
Cecilie Conrad (41:28):
Yeah, that's great yeah you haven't other
people around you like she didbasically yeah, yeah.
Corianda Shepherd (41:35):
I just want other people to benefit in the
ways we have and seeing theirchildren grow and strive for
something a little bit more,instead of putting up with
things that can change, and Iwant to let people know be
positive, go for these changes,you know.
Cecilie Conrad (41:56):
You said, in what I feel like is the
beginning of our conversation,something down the line of you
know you could sit down andthink about what your family
really need and what wouldactually work for your family.
And you said between the lines,or I reckon from the
conversation we've had, that youcould think that quite far
(42:20):
outside of the box of themainstream life, to think you
know how would it work, whatwould work when you're
struggling, when you maybe haveI don't know, that could be
stress, it could be kids withdiagnosis or just kids not
thriving in the system yeahcould be.
Many things could be maybe hardwith the marriage or sibling
rivalry, whatever.
(42:41):
Life is not working.
You're frustrated.
Maybe sit down to think aboutwhat would work.
I've been thinking about we havethis thing.
I say it very often how wouldthis look if it was easy?
Sometimes, when I get reallyfrustrated with a situation, I
(43:03):
just feel like it's justoverwhelming and I can't, I just
cannot make this work and itseems like this is the most
complicated and annoying thingand I there's no way out and I'm
just want to scream and Ibreathe and I think, how would
this look if it was easy?
(43:24):
And that makes also takes youquite far out of the box.
I, I mean, we live a quiteradical life and have done so
for many years, even before webecame fully nomadic, so we are
outside of what everyone wouldconsider a box.
But still, sometimes I do boxthinking.
You know, I think I have thisproblem and I have this problem
and I have this problem and it'sin here and there's nothing
outside of it.
(43:44):
And then you stop and you'relike okay, but if it was easy
and not this problem, how wouldit look?
Yeah, and that can just.
I'm saying this to the listenersmaybe more than to you
personally, because I kind ofget that you're doing that
already.
It can just sometimes open thewhole.
(44:06):
I just had a complicatedsituation with one conversation
with one of our kids yesterdaywho was struggling with a
problem, and I got myself caughtup into it, like okay, this is
actually really hard.
But then we stopped and we werelike, okay, but if it was not
hard, how would it look?
How would it look if it waseasy?
It's such an eye-openingbackflip of your own mind to do
(44:30):
that.
Corianda Shepherd (44:31):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (44:33):
And I'm just impressed with what you said
before about being a single mom.
Lots of kids with all theletters, diagnosis, spectrum
things, thinking, okay, well,what could work?
Yeah, it's kind of the same aswhat if it was easy exactly.
Corianda Shepherd (44:54):
I didn't like the fact that we had all of
this external help coming intoour family life and I feel that,
family, you should support eachother.
That didn't really happen withmy parents and my family,
because they didn't fullyunderstand what was going on and
would often tell me to chastisemy children for being out of
(45:17):
turn, for example, because theydidn't see the anxieties and the
other things behind the stuff,where they were actually
struggling.
That was a massive thing for methat I chose when I had
children.
I will guide them, tell themwhat is right, what is wrong or
what, in my opinion, whenthey're young.
Jesper Conrad (45:34):
You touched on something I find quite
interesting, which is what isthe family structure?
You suppose you would have hadhelp from your family with the
challenges you had from your son, but it was not there.
Instead, care was outsourced tothe system and I am trying to
(45:58):
picture together in my mind whathave happened in our society
and culture since we have endedup where we are.
But I think I need to dive deepwith some some professor-like
type and go into it, because Ithink it's both the move from
being families in small culturesand societies on farms moving
(46:20):
into the big cities.
Yes, it's the nuclear familydevelopment living smaller.
Something also happened whenwomen began going to the
workplace.
Not that that is a bad thing,but all of a sudden we went from
having one parent at home tohaving no parent at home.
Corianda Shepherd (46:40):
It has an effect on how the families are
this is another important thing,actually, because he touched
earlier on the cultures and howthe cultures are different, and
what I'd always grown up withcoming over here in spain is the
family ties, and they are somuch more well they're they just
(47:02):
align with family life so muchbetter.
It's a family-centric country,I feel.
Being in Spain, you usuallywould have the grandparents
around, like we came past theschool earlier and no one I saw
there was under 70 picking upthe children and there must have
been 10 to 12 adults.
Now that's all the grandparents, because the parents are at
(47:25):
work.
So yes, like you say, both mumand dad out.
However, the grandparents stepinto that role and they do the
correction at two o'clock andthe lunch and the siesta time
and then they might cook fortheir children as well.
So for the parents of thechildren in school, all eat
together and then disperse backto school or the children go off
(47:47):
with their friends.
But it's so much of a familystructure here and I really feel
that having your children withyou and that being accepted is a
massive thing.
If you go out in the UK to arestaurant, if they serve
alcohol, you can't be in arestaurant, I believe, after 7
(48:08):
pm with your children.
But here you can turn up to afiesta.
It doesn't even start till 10pm and you're dancing there till
4 in the morning with a candyfloss, you know, yes, and you
all turn up home together andeverything's great.
Yeah, the whole family arethere and it's just such a
(48:32):
different vibe and our childrenneeded that.
They needed to feel surroundedby something held.
Held, you know, and when you'rein the UK it's children there,
adults there, you know, on alevel sort of thing.
The children are like seen butnot heard is what the English
would say.
Cecilie Conrad (48:53):
And if you're plus 70, you're in a nursing
home.
You're not walking the paseowith your grandchildren, yeah.
Jesper Conrad (49:00):
But also imagine what you're telling you as a
parent, what the state told youor the society.
It's like hey, Corey, you'renot good enough to handle your
own child here.
You're not capable of givinghim what he needs.
Yeah, that is not a good placeto help from if that's the
(49:20):
message you get no, it is.
Corianda Shepherd (49:23):
This is the gray area for us at the moment
and this is our difficult thing.
We've got to this point.
Like I say, we've beenhomeschooling maggie since march
last year, like straightthrough, and then in february
this year we got a message fromsocial services to go in, and
also the guardia turned up witha letter that, when we opened it
(49:46):
, told us that we had to be downin almeria meeting with a
prosecutor the next day.
So joel and I drove down thereand basically, homeschooling is
classed as illegal.
Now, when you check out the law, it says that you're obligated
to provide an education for asix to 16 year olds.
(50:09):
It doesn't, however, stipulatethat it's got to be in a school.
So we felt okay about doingthis, and we know there are many
other home educators in spain.
However, if you're living here,yeah, a lot of people look down
on you and go well, you movedthere, so you should follow the
(50:29):
rules, but it doesn't fit ourdaughter.
So we were told that we wouldreceive a 6 000 euro, fine, or
possibly have our child takenaway.
You know, it's just ideasthrown out there.
Now this is in a country wherewe feel completely at home, so
(50:51):
this has been like a bit ofupset and people saying to us,
oh, you're gonna have to moveaway, there's no way around it.
And I'm like, no, we're not,we're not moving away.
This is our life here.
You know, we're committed fullyto being here and we love
everything other than this in mymind, this small thing that
should be able to be changed.
(51:12):
Now we're looking into waysaround it that will allow us to
homeschool.
Initially we were completelylike thrown by it and we put our
daughter back into an evensmaller school.
So again, the 70 children thatwas, you know, a good size.
But the other school 15 minutesaway only had seven children
(51:37):
completely aged from three to 11children completely age from
three to eleven.
So we felt we felt like we weresort of pressured to put her in
there.
So we did for four weeks, forthe whole four weeks she was
back in there.
She changed massively and whenshe would get home from school
(52:00):
it's nine till two, so it's nota massively long day.
She became overwhelmed by and,like I say, it's not a large
group there, but overwhelmed byhaving the structure and
everything to fit to and thechanges throughout the day.
We go by natural sleep patterns,for example in our house.
(52:22):
So Maggie will go to bed at thesame time as us every evening
and wake up naturally around10am 10.30am in the morning.
Now that works for her and shehas a very productive day
afterwards.
We can get our bits of workdone and then have time with her
when she's up as well.
So we feel like that's worksperfectly.
But obviously we're thengetting her up.
(52:44):
We were having to dress herwhile she was asleep because her
sleep pattern just didn't fit.
Get there for nine and she wascrying.
And that is exactly.
This is not a child that cries.
She is super happy, really Idon't know articulate, and she
(53:05):
can explain exactly how she felt.
And when she was getting homein the afternoon she was
climbing into bed at 2 30 we'djust about get some food inside
her and then she'd go I'm gonnago and lay down and you'd look
in and she'd just be like layingand she was getting quieter,
more introverted just in thefour weeks.
(53:26):
So we pulled her again and weboth decided at that point it
was difficult because they'rethinking oh my god, we could get
into real trouble for this.
But essentially, what did wecome here for?
And and we've done this before,we fought for this before, and
so let's do what we know isright.
We don't want to damage ourchild.
(53:47):
We don't want to allow that tobe a thing of our everyday life.
So at the moment, we had ameeting with the school
yesterday and they've allowed us, as such, not to sign her in.
They even said to us that theyhaven't got an opinion on us
homeschooling.
They're not against it as such,but as professionals and as a
(54:08):
head teacher and class teacher,they can't help us, if you know
what I mean, because then theywould be seen as going against
the law that you know thatapplies to them, so that that's
fair enough.
They were all very polite aboutit and everything like that.
So we've signed out.
School term finishes June 22ndusually, and then restarts
(54:28):
mid-September.
So from now until then we'refine and we're just going to be.
We've got we put a post outabout this to be quite open and
honest and to say life can seemperfect, but there's always
something, you know, that canjust throw something in there or
(54:49):
throw you just like whoa.
That's a curveball that Ididn't expect, you know.
But again, it's adaptability,it's learning what you could do,
what you can put.
You know we've got a lot ofavenues now to check out.
We've been given the number oftwo, the contacts of two lawyers
over here that are bothhomeschooling mums and Spanish.
(55:09):
So again, we're applying thedifferent contacts and hopefully
working our way towards findingsomething that can.
Cecilie Conrad (55:19):
Oh, I'm sure you will.
I'm sure you will.
You wouldn't be the first inspain who found a way.
Yeah, we should have aconversation again, and after
the summer november ish.
And you how you did it?
Because it's a big deal for alot of people who want to be in
spain.
How do they?
Corianda Shepherd (55:34):
get exactly.
We've had so many peoplecontact us and I think only one
person out of about 160 comments.
One person said you moved there, deal with it.
The rest of the people werelike, actually, how do you know
what your child's going to belike?
And so you're saying choose thesystem over your child.
Is that what you're saying?
Jesper Conrad (55:55):
I would like to quote a fellow unschooling,
homeschooling, world schoolingtraveler and friend of ours,
carla Martinez, who says theamount of freedom you have or
can get equals the amount ofuncertainty you are willing to
walk through.
And sometimes, in thislifestyle we have chosen, you
(56:19):
meet obstacles, challenges, andthen you adapt and you need to
adapt.
Cecilie Conrad (56:25):
Or you make the world adapt.
Corianda Shepherd (56:26):
The one thing that I really want people to
not be scared of moving to Spainor visiting Spain, because I
think there's so many countriestrying to take control, so many
governments trying to takecontrol of the educational
system and how and where we caneducate our children.
Now there's so many people thatfeel like they're I don't know
(56:47):
refugees, almost likeeducational refugees.
They're moving from country tocountry trying to find something
that fits.
Now, what we provide,ironically, isn't suitable or
enough to qualify for ourdaughter because we're residents
here, but it does qualify otherpeople to stay for up to three
(57:08):
months, usually on their visas,depending.
They can stay here for threemonths and homeschool and be
within the legal rights.
So it's not that it's notrecognized here, but if you live
here and you are resident here,they want you in the system.
Just to say, there's plenty ofcommunities around in spain as
(57:30):
well, and they're very beautifuland the culture that you will
be immersing your children inhas also got a lot to give.
So I just yeah, I just don'twant people to feel like spain,
oh, we can't go there.
Cecilie Conrad (57:43):
Homeschooling is illegal, you know, because as
long as you're not a resident,it's not a problem.
Jesper Conrad (57:48):
I think we've spent a year and a half combined
in spain you mentioned howspain is very family-centric in
their culture and it wasinteresting for me.
We traveled to spain and had itas a hub where we were like
three or four months a year inSpain to see how both the
(58:08):
grandparents but also the youngadults still was a part of the
family and lived at home.
In Denmark, you move out whenyou're like 18 or something, and
here it was, oh.
You can actually enjoy beingtogether with your family so
long that the culture I comefrom.
I started to ask questions tomyself about why it's my normal
(58:33):
like that.
Cecilie Conrad (58:34):
Yeah, so the grandparents picking up from
school being part of thisfamily-centric culture, I think
it's great.
It looks great, you know, andwarms your heart, but at the
same time, because of thisliberation of the women and
women in the workforce and themodern culture of the two
incomes and all things, I mean,I'm obviously not against
(58:57):
equality between the genders,but at the same time I really
have a problem with the factthat we've created a shared.
One of the shared elements ofall the cultures we usually call
the Western world is that youhave the two.
Both parents work outside ofthe home, which means basically
no one really has time for thechildren.
And we hire professionals tohave time for the children, but
(59:19):
that's one professional to 30children, something like that.
That's obviously ridiculouswhen you look at it.
When you have two or three orfour children yourself and you
feel pretty busy taking care ofthem, then having five times
that amount of kids obviouslythe suffering I mean.
And how can we be so fortunate,so wealthy, in such a
(59:40):
progressive and amazing world oftechnology and abundance and no
one takes care of the mostprecious element our children?
It makes no sense to me.
It's great to have thegrandparents step in there, but
at the same time I also feel inthere, but at the same time I
also feel, as you've saidseveral times in this podcast,
(01:00:04):
I'm the mom, you're the dad.
The parents are supposed totake care of the children, not
the system.
Should we stop for a minute andthink about having created a
culture?
Corianda Shepherd (01:00:16):
where no one really has the time to take care
of the children.
I think it will make a lot ofpeople question it as well,
though, because that's whatwe're doing essentially is we're
taking back our rights.
Our obligation is to ourchildren.
Why are we obligated to who?
To pass our children to someoneelse?
My obligation when I fellpregnant with my children is to
(01:00:37):
my child to make sure they arehappy, well-rounded and enabled
to do the things they love andenjoy in life, and it's your
problem.
Cecilie Conrad (01:00:47):
No one else as well, maybe the dad.
Jesper Conrad (01:00:48):
But yeah, exactly , full stop, man so it's my
opinion coriander, it has been apleasure and I would like to
ask you to share how people canfind out more about your project
if they want to read about it,if they want to visit, if they
just want to follow you onsocial media.
So I will also put it in theshow notes, of course, for the
(01:01:12):
people just listening.
Corianda Shepherd (01:01:13):
if you can wrap up this episode, Perfect,
get in touch with us if you'reinterested in coming over here.
Basically, we've got a websitethat describes how it is to be
here and what goes on here, andthat's wwwshepherdsrestorg.
And yeah, we've got a Facebookpage as well, which is Shepherds
Rest.
(01:01:33):
And, yeah, just come on over,even if you just want to ask
some questions or you know.
Message.
Jesper Conrad (01:01:40):
We will invite people to do that and finish up
by saying goodbye.
It has been a pleasure.
Corianda Shepherd (01:01:46):
It has been a pleasure.
Thanks so much for having me.
Today we are together with Coriander and you
have Shepard's Rest, and I'vebeen seeing your post on the
social media and then I gotcurious and wanted to ask you a
bunch of questions.
So first of all, welcome.
It's good to have you here.
Corianda Shepherd (00:16):
Thank you very much.
I've been looking forward tochatting to you as well.
See your posts and they lookreally exciting.
They're my colleagues.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Jesper Conrad (00:28):
So for people who don't know what Shepherd's Rest
is, if we can give it a quickcouple of words first so we know
what we're talking about.
Corianda Shepherd (00:37):
So Shepherd's Rest is a full-time world
schooling community.
That's how we put it.
We're open all year round andwe say one month minimum stay
here so that families get achance to connect.
And we spend a lot of time innature and we don't really offer
a program as such, although onoccasions we do for certain
(00:59):
structured months, but on thewhole it's pretty
unstructuredructured,self-directed and just people
getting together with communitymeals each week and odd days out
and meetups yeah, and where arewe in the world?
Cecilie Conrad (01:14):
we don't know it's all important, actually
isn't it well, only for thosewho want to come, I mean true, I
want to hear about it.
It could be anywhere.
Corianda Shepherd (01:23):
We're in Oria , andalusia, which is in Almeria
, so we're in Spain and we'vebeen here since 2015, 10 years.
Jesper Conrad (01:33):
Wonderful, and how old are your kids?
And stuff like that.
Corianda Shepherd (01:36):
So I've got six children.
The oldest is 28 and nevermoved to Spain with us because
she was already in uni, and thenext one down is 26 and didn't
come with us because she wasalready in uni, and the next one
down is 26 and didn't come withus because he was in music
school.
However, we've now got one ofthose over here, so we've got
three here and three in Englandbasically.
(01:57):
But yeah, the ones that wetraveled here with at the time
were 10, 8 and 7, and then we'vesince had Magnolia and she's
now 8.
So two years before we hadMagnolia.
So then we had four childrenhere and we've done a mix of
school system and homeschoolingsince we've been here, but they
(02:17):
all finished by homeschoolingfor at least the last two to
three years, and Maggie has beenhomeschooling since well, a
good, clear year, and we dabbledwith it beforehand as well, but
it's just what suits her best,really what led you to leave UK,
besides the weather, yeah,obviously that was a strong one.
(02:40):
At the time I was in the UK, Ihad three boys and two girls.
My three boys are all on thespectrum with high functioning
autism, and two of them alsohave ADHD and one has Tourette's
with the autism.
They didn't fit the system, andI used to be a parent that
(03:02):
thought that more should be putin for my children and they
should be able to be treated asindividuals, and I used to be a
parent that thought that moreshould be put in for my children
and they should be able to betreated as individuals, and I
used to fight for whatever Icould for any children that had
needs like this so that theycould stay within a system.
I've really, really changed mywhole idea on this since trying
homeschooling.
Since trying homeschooling,because what I can see is that
(03:27):
then why should someone elseprovide something for my
children when we can provide itfor ourselves the very best
thing for our children?
We know our children inside outand we can see where they
struggle, where they're strong,and for me, I want my children
to grow up with positivitysurrounding them instead of the
negatives.
So when we were in the UK, theboys all had a lot of issues
(03:49):
around the structure of school,around the social side, with too
many people and one of themactually got expelled at eight
years old Probably pushed us tolook at things a bit clearer and
question things a little bitmore, as they always have done.
A lot of people believe thatyour children choose you as a
(04:11):
parent.
I definitely feel that way nowand I feel like my boys,
especially, have taught me many,many lessons that I needed to
know and needed to learn, andI've grown so much from that.
That I needed to know andneeded to learn and I've grown
so much from that.
Joel and I met in 2014.
And we got together January2015.
(04:34):
I said to him that I'd beenthinking about moving to Spain
and would he like to you know,give it a go, and everything.
And so we came out here in theMarch, found the property,
property.
We just looked at one house,the house I'm in right now and
we loved it and we thought, yeah, this has got scope for
something.
So joel and I, after being Ithink, we were only five months
(04:55):
together, we moved to spaintogether with, like I say, the
seven, eight and ten year oldand started life out here.
Cecilie Conrad (05:03):
Wow, amazing.
Jesper Conrad (05:07):
I've never met anyone with Tourette's and when
I see it portrayed it almostseems unreal, because the clips
you see are like is that fake?
Isn't it fake?
Is it just one clip?
So my curiosity if it's okay,how is it in reality living with
it?
Corianda Shepherd (05:23):
So in reality for my, my son, it's actually
quite easy because, number one,he has a different sort of
Tourette's, that's mainlyphysical tics other than verbal.
So he very rarely has a verbaltic.
If you are trying to watch afilm alongside him he is 20 now
but you can sit next to him andwatch a film and he will make
little noises but nothing thatreally affects anything, but
(05:47):
it's the motion of like maybehis shoulder or something.
If it is touched or if a friendcomes up and doesn't realize
that he has these sensitivities,they will touch him or brush
past him and that will set offhis tics.
Set off his tics.
(06:07):
He actually he's really supercool.
I really love the fact thatwhen he was maybe 14 and he was
really struggling with some ofthis and the tics became very
prevalent in his life and again,teenage years, you know you're
with all these and everythingand people start asking like,
why are you doing that?
You know doesn't help.
No no, and then the insecuritiesand the anxiety comes out more.
So he said to me oh, do youknow anyone that might be able
(06:31):
to help me with this?
I just want to get a handle onit.
And he's always been verylateral thinking and calm and I
said, yeah, so they think Imight know someone.
And my friend did this treatmentcalled say no mentology and you
are treated, you are liketaught by this one.
I go, I guess he's like a guruor something in say no mentology
(06:51):
.
He came up with the wholeprocess and it's my son puts it
in a way like it's halfmeditation, half hypnosis.
But it's all about you don'tneed to be seen very many times,
you don't need to speak toomuch, which was great, because
he'd started holding in hiswords quite a lot and become
quite introverted.
But it was all about relaxingand listening and learning to
(07:16):
think more about yourself andhow you perceive yourself and
how you want to be perceived byother people.
Therefore, you're getting thestrength for you and not taking
on other people's problems,because he is incredibly
sensitive.
So after this, after he had thistreatment when he was 14, it
was like 45 minutes he walkedout the room, a different person
(07:38):
, lots of areas of his life,really caught up, I would say
and he gained a sense ofself-worth and a sense of
confidence that has just carriedon growing.
I think he's had threeappointments altogether.
We still know the lady thattreated him and I thank her like
loads because, honestly, itjust made such a difference, and
(08:01):
I'm a great one for alternativetherapies.
If there's something out therethat you can try an alternative
therapy for, why take medication?
I'm really glad that he wasopen-minded, because a lot of
people aren't, and especially alot of men and a lot of children
also.
They're worried about you knowwhat it means to try all these
different things that are, youknow, classed as sometimes
airy-fairy or a bit hippie youknow.
Cecilie Conrad (08:24):
Yeah, just ask our kids well, was it another
hippie idea?
You've got there, or does itactually work?
And yeah, you just like try it.
Corianda Shepherd (08:35):
Well, if your symptoms disappear, I would say
it worked, you know, yeahexactly, or lyndon saw this
firsthand so he was just like hewas super happy and has just
moved on loads.
His tics are now minimal.
He's actually when he was eight.
He didn't speak for a year when, so he was selective mute and
(08:57):
now he's recorded songsprofessionally just cover songs
and stuff.
But he's recorded songsprofessionally and that's a love
of his that he did have beforehe stopped speaking, so I knew
it was in there all the time,but now he's like everything's
coming out, you know which isgood so how old are they now?
I need to just understand, yeahso I've got Terea, and she's 28,
(09:20):
beckham's 26, lyndon's 20,holby's 19, talia's 17, and then
I've got magnolia, who's eight?
Cecilie Conrad (09:29):
all right so yeah, so we've got the 26 most,
actually through the whole, yeah, regular school age, and you
see yeah, yeah, most of them.
Corianda Shepherd (09:40):
So all 17 and above, except for Matt and
Maria.
Cecilie Conrad (09:43):
Yeah, yeah, but other than I'm sorry, go on.
Corianda Shepherd (09:48):
Sorry, I was just going to say other than the
oldest one.
All of them have beenhomeschooled for at least two to
three years, which made amassive difference.
Cecilie Conrad (09:58):
I just noticed.
So we have four, and one hasbeen in alternative schools and
the three others have never beento school and I've just noticed
with mine and also with otherhomeschooled kids that I've seen
and known about.
You know you get thequote-unquote results quite late
.
Corianda Shepherd (10:18):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (10:19):
You know, it's when you come out on the other
end that you can see, oh, thisreally meant a big deal, whereas
when they're small maybe alsoyou're a beginner homeschooler
it's all these milestones of dothey read, or minor things that
actually don't matter, yeah, andthat they all obviously learn
(10:39):
at some point, that you thinkabout because you kind of
wrapped up in the system and youhave this age marker thing
going on.
But then, as you say, now youknow, you see your son, he might
have some sort of diagnosis10-15 years ago and today, yeah,
exactly, does it matter?
When you're not interviewed fora podcast, probably you know
(11:02):
it's crazy.
Corianda Shepherd (11:03):
Like you say, I feel like even their
diagnosis for me at the timebecause again, would I get them
diagnosed now as who I am now Atthe time being in the system, I
felt it would offer them help.
Yeah, and I also didn't wantthem put on medication, so I
wanted to understand more fromprofessionals as to where I
(11:24):
could begin to help them andread up on it.
So I don't think I regret it,but I think the emotional
regulation is just a little bitslower and the more time they
have in the right environmentthey're not far behind.
That's what I found.
Cecilie Conrad (11:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny how it changes when you
change the context, right yeah,exactly, environment was a
massive thing actually.
Corianda Shepherd (11:52):
I have to mention that because moving here
wasn't solely for the boys, itwas for the whole family.
My grandparents lived in Spainwhilst I was growing up and I
spent most of my holidays withthem from probably 12 years
onwards, and they had a place onthe beach and a place in the
mountains, and I loved being upin the mountains.
(12:13):
Now I'm from a busy city,brighton, on the south coast,
and it's always packed cars,noise, trains, buses, you name
it.
You can't go anywhere withoutjust general noise and chit chat
.
That really got to my boys.
They were wearing ear defendersand stuff like this and
everywhere we went they couldn'tcope with the numbers of people
.
(12:33):
We came here to find somethingthat would allow us all to relax
a bit more.
To actually become morecohesive as a family and be able
to provide something for ourchildren was the initial thing.
So we bought somewhere that wasa lot cheaper, that we could
afford to buy outright.
That meant that Joel and Icould become full-time parents
(12:56):
to the children instead of bothbeing self-employed and out at
work.
So we spent the first two yearswith the children settling them
into school, and well, wedidn't even know if we were
going to send them to school.
The children met other childrenat the park, found out that
there was only seven children ineach year group rather than I
(13:18):
think at their last school therewas 190 in each year group.
The school had over a thousandpupils, so this school had 70
complete.
They asked can we try theschool?
And I was like, of course youcan.
You know you want to try it,let's go for it.
Did incredibly well, so I justneed the number again.
Jesper Conrad (13:43):
You're saying seven on each year group.
That is a luxury.
Yes, sounds almost unbelievable.
I know when you think aboutthese schools that are out there
today.
Corianda Shepherd (13:53):
Yeah, exactly that, a three-minute walk from
the house.
Seven children in each year,ranging from three years to 14
years.
So, like you say, all is good.
You know, that's very lucky,fortunate, to have on your
doorstep, and it allowed thechance for the three of them to
go to school, learn Spanishfluently, which they did, which
(14:15):
is fantastic.
I'm learning all the time, butI'm pretty reasonable and I do
speak Spanish every day, personto person, because I feel that
for me, that works.
I do speak Spanish every day,person to person, because I feel
that for me, that works, and Idon't mind laughing at myself if
I get something wrong.
I'm not perfect, you know.
So if you move somewhere, Ifeel you've got to embrace and
also show your children how tofit in and integrate, you know
(14:37):
yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (14:40):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (14:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Coriander, I would like to askyou how moving to Spain have
changed your perspective onwhere you came from, the society
you came from, the culture, howyou were as a person before
versus how you are now.
(15:01):
Yeah, how had it unraveled inyour life?
Corianda Shepherd (15:09):
So I was always quite a free thinker and
maybe, like many people, thoughtI was a bit of a daydreamer or
something like that.
When I met Joel, I felt likeI'd met my match and we both had
the same sort of plans.
We're both quite impulsive, butwe both felt very restricted by
our environment that we were in.
We thought a bit differently.
(15:31):
We're more creative sort ofpeople that want to be doing
stuff for the local community.
We've always been involved incommunity projects Joel with
videography and filming, andmyself and photography and
myself with music promotion andband management and things like
this.
So we already had that side tous where we knew like
(15:51):
entrepreneurial sort of thingswhere we could make something up
, come up with somethingtogether.
So we started making plans forcoming out here.
And, yeah, back there I waswhen the children were young.
I was 19 when I had my firstchild and at that age I was
quite a conformist, quite ananxious I guess anxious or maybe
(16:16):
shy more than anxious person.
I couldn't use a bus, Icouldn't go on a bus and ask for
a ticket, which is seems nowlike that was not me when I was
young, if I needed to go on abus and ask for a ticket, which
is seems now like that was notme.
When I was young, if I neededto go to my friend's house 12
miles away, I'd get my mountainbike out and I would ride there
I liked.
I was always outdoorsy so itwas no hard shit, but I just
(16:39):
something always niggled at me.
I didn't just just quite fit.
Do you know what I mean?
And for us, we always wanted toprovide something for our
children that fitted better.
Joel took on the role of, likestepdad the children don't call
him stepdad because they wereJoel's actually only 35 and I'm
48.
So he was 25 when we gottogether and it's worked
(17:03):
perfectly.
He's a great friend to theolder children and a great
support.
They call him as well.
If I'm too close to thesituation sometimes, or they
think he can help, they'll givehim a call.
They've got their dad around aswell.
So you know, like it's havingtwo male role models, which is
fantastic.
And yeah, it's been a realgrowth, I suppose, for me
(17:26):
personally.
But, like I say, a lot of thathappened because of the children
.
So when they had needs, Irealized I had to adapt.
I can't let them struggle.
I need to move forward withthis and know that I'm going to
be able to provide for them as aparent.
That's what you want to do toenable them to get somewhere in
life that they going to be ableto provide for them as a parent,
that's what you want to do toenable them to get somewhere in
life that they want to be.
(17:47):
So, yeah, I mean, steppingoutside of that was quite
difficult for me because myfamily, we all talk and get on,
but you know you can't haveexactly the same opinions, even
though you've been brought upthe same way.
I'm the oldest of five childrenand none of the others agree
with homeschooling and variousother things that we've decided
(18:09):
to do or not to do.
So, leaving that situation withthree boys, you know, diagnosed
and everything, we would fall.
Don't do it.
You're crazy.
Everyone.
We had so many agenciesinvolved with helping with the
care of the boys and things likethat.
They were all just going.
Are you crazy?
What are you doing?
You're taking away everythingthat they know and you're taking
(18:30):
them abroad where they don'tspeak the language.
They have flown, they haveflown.
It's been the best thing, and Iwant other people to know how
much things can change when youreally look at yourself deeply
and look at your familysituation and think why are we
struggling?
What is not right here becauseyou have the strength and the
(18:53):
power to change it for yourfamily and what can go wrong if
you just try something.
So it's definitely worth a try.
Initially when, when we got here, the house needed to bring up,
so it was completely empty.
It just had windows and doors,no floor tiles, no bathrooms,
nothing.
So we rented for a year.
(19:14):
We kept our house back in theUK, rented that out and then,
once everyone had settled here,so we did have a little bit of a
safety barrier.
Then, once everyone had settled, we thought, right, a little
bit of a safety barrier.
Then, once everyone had settled, we thought, right, sell up,
put the money in over here.
So we did up the house and we'vegot three apartments attached
to the house so that, like I say, we knew when we looked at the
(19:37):
property this has potential todo something.
So initially we had a lot offriends that were yoga teachers
or poi teachers or circus skillsand things like that.
So we started with the idea ofhosting the teacher and they
would bring their students withthem for yoga.
We did a few yoga retreats andwe also were lucky enough to be
(20:00):
followed by a uk tv channel,channel four, and they followed
us for a year and that was in2019.
And so that was called A NewLife in the Sun, where they
basically follow people thathave moved abroad and started a
business and see how it's going,and then they visit every
couple of years and spend a daywith us just to like update
(20:22):
what's going on in our project.
Jesper Conrad (20:24):
That's not bad for business, huh no, it's not
bad.
Corianda Shepherd (20:28):
It was difficult, though, being
followed around when you'resuper busy, but the camera guys
were great it I mean to be fair.
Like I was saying, I was anervous, shy person when I was
younger and I hated my phototaken.
I couldn't sit like this infront of a camera.
It doesn't feel natural to me.
It's getting easier because I'mjust less.
(20:49):
I'm trying to not even thinkabout it, if you know what I
mean.
That's sort of what you've gotto get past.
Yes, caring, you know.
So, yeah, it was a reallearning curve another one, so
but we did well out of it.
You know.
It got us known a little bit.
The local thing got toappreciate what we were doing
over here as well, and then wejust thought, when we had
(21:10):
Magnolia and we just looked atthe situation and we thought the
yoga retreats were fun and theywere lovely people, but it
didn't fit our family very wellbecause it was bringing lots of
adults into a situation.
But we had lots of children.
We had four young children, sowe wanted to then create
(21:32):
something that would provide forour children and mean that we
were around more and, even if wewere working, that they could
be included more instead ofquiet time here, and you've got
to be this and you've got to bethat.
That's what we wanted to avoid.
So it's amazing how organicallyit happened.
Actually, we had a reallylovely lady, an australian lady
(21:52):
called sarah, and she came withher husband and four children
and, like I know her, I thinkyou might yeah, most
homeschoolers should know her.
I think she's been a big part ofit for years.
Right, for like five years Ithink they did traveling.
I think they were only meant todo a year or two, but they
(22:13):
stopped with us all together.
I think it was only aroundseven weeks, but I think it was
like a four-week block and thenthey came back because the kids
got on so well.
So they really opened our eyesto the home schooling, the
unschooling.
We had lots of conversationsabout it.
We didn't agree on everything.
(22:34):
It was very new to us, like Isay, and we were like, oh, do
you reckon that can work?
And we were the ones going, oh,but what about further
education?
You know?
And and these are the question,yeah, yeah.
And this is the hilarious thingnow, because I'm working as a
home educational consultanttelling all these other people
now that are just new into itand panicking and going I can't
(22:57):
do this, I can't help mychildren, and what about this?
And what about their exams?
And they're not going to go tocollege?
And I'm just like slow down,sit down, sit back, relax.
And this is exactly what Sarahwas saying to me.
She was just like you, just youget it, you know.
And, yeah, we just realized howmuch it would work for our boys
(23:18):
especially.
And, yeah, once, once we gotinto it, more and more things
clicked into place really, andit just became our way of life.
I don't know if we're classed asunschoolers or homeschoolers.
Really we don't do sit downlessons as such, we don't have
set times for anything, but ourdaughter's been reading since
(23:42):
she was six, by choice, becauseshe would see other children
come here and she'd make friendswith them.
And we had some lovely twingirls from Canada that were here
and they were just goingthrough all the books.
We've got a library out thefront and a playroom and she was
sitting out there with them andshe was going are you really
reading all of that?
And my daughter was like wow,and she said I really want to
(24:05):
learn to read.
And again, like you were sayingearlier, we don't need to force
our children.
You can put things in their wayand they can choose what they.
You know what's around themthat they want to pick up, and
it's so nice to see them followtheir own heart, their own
timings and their own rhythm.
Jesper Conrad (24:24):
Yeah, I remember the first time we met someone
who decided to homeschool.
It was two or three houses downon the road we lived.
Now they live in Spain, Dawnand Marcus and their family
wonderful people.
Cecilie Conrad (24:41):
Do you know them ?
No, I don't.
They're in La Andalusia as well.
Yeah, so I feel like I did awhole podcast series with Sarah
Beale.
I mean, I know her quite well.
I was kidding, okay.
Yeah, we spend a lot of timetogether, yeah.
Jesper Conrad (24:57):
And we must actually have been together with
them right before they visited.
Yeah, we were together inGranada for the World's First
Singing or something.
Corianda Shepherd (25:05):
See Granada.
They left here to go to Granadaand then they came back here.
Jesper Conrad (25:09):
Ah, how fun, Then you met her first.
Cecilie Conrad (25:12):
No, it's not about that.
No, small world, no.
Corianda Shepherd (25:16):
Yeah, I can imagine that she's probably
influenced a good few hundredpeople in her lifetime.
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (25:23):
It happens when you meet people and talk to them
and they get their eyes openbecause a podcast hours, like
many others out there, is stillrelevant.
Yeah, even though I amsurrounded by people who world
school or homeschool or unschooloften.
Corianda Shepherd (25:42):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (25:43):
Then I remember how it was before.
Before I had heard abouthomeschooling, I was like it
sounds weird, is it reallypossible?
And all the questions and fearsyou have.
Then, when you meet someone whoshares about it and even better
, when you meet someone who haskids you look at them and
(26:06):
they're actually just normal.
Corianda Shepherd (26:08):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (26:08):
The big, big inspiration to see how they
interact with each other, talkand really like the sharing part
of it when people are actuallyinterested, not when it's the so
will they ever get socialized?
The two minute question we wereat a wedding here recently
(26:28):
where a guy who was like, ohthat sounds interesting, do you
want to share?
And we ended up sitting talkinga couple of hours and I I look
forward to see what happens insome years when they get
children, because I'm like thatseed was planted there that will
route into a new homeschoolingfamily and that's how it happens
(26:49):
, right, and I think more andmore people are coming on board
with this idea.
Corianda Shepherd (26:54):
I don't know I mean, I don't look too much
into where does autism come fromor anything.
We've just sort of dealt withit as we go and we've dealt with
it very positively.
We've managed to stay away frommedications and things, however
.
So, along with what Sarah didfor us, she opened our eyes and
we thought you know what?
There's so many people doingthis.
(27:14):
We could provide something likethis because this would suit
our children down to the groundand then we could hopefully
enable other families not justwith children with difficulties
or learning difficulties or anybehavioral issues or anything
like that, but everybody wecould have families stay here
(27:35):
and they can connect with peacearound them, space around them,
not to be forced by a system.
So we actually changed ourbusiness, partly because of what
we saw in the potential fromwhat Sarah was telling us about,
and we changed our life to fitand our business to fit our life
(27:57):
.
So it happened quite quicklyand we only we came off of
Airbnb, because obviously youcan't then choose who your
guests are, so we had onlyfamilies.
So we were a little quiet instarting up, but then we carried
on with all the advertising andnow I would say I would say
we're quite well known, like alot of people in the world,
(28:20):
school environment, seem to knowus and pass details on to other
friends.
A lot of it is word of mouth.
So when people have anexperience somewhere and find
that it fits their family anddon't get me wrong, we know that
we don't fit everybody no hubor community will fit every but
every family, because everyoneis looking for something
different and everyone has theirown agenda for doing this as
(28:44):
well.
So we have had some struggles,but we have mainly had, I think,
we always say it's about 95,absolutely fantastic.
The five percent it hurts.
It really does, because you aredoing just the same thing as
you were doing with the 95 whenit works.
So you know you've got it rightand you know you've got your
(29:05):
whole ethos set to where youshould be, but it just doesn't
fit for some people.
So you have to swallow that andjust go right, let's carry on.
And you know, hold your pie andkeep going with this, because
we know we're doing somethingright.
Cecilie Conrad (29:21):
We're so vulnerable socially yeah we're
really little things thatactually are small.
They hurt a lot, yeah, but Ithink they should.
I mean, if we toughen up, thenwe just let go of our humanity,
and we don't want that either.
Yeah, exactly.
Corianda Shepherd (29:41):
We've had families here that have been to
other hubs that I think arefantastic and I've been in touch
with them for years.
We've had people here that havehad a fantastic time time, but
they've written massivecomplaints about the other one.
And then we've had the otherway around.
We've had someone in complaintsabout being here, but they fit
over there and it.
When we looked at it the me andthe other owner of the of their
(30:03):
group we looked at it and welooked at the ages of the
children and the makeup of thefamily and actually we could see
actually where one fitted onemore than the other and actually
it just wasn't a good makeupfor things straight away, and so
you need to really look at thatand try and sell exactly what
you've got, not more.
(30:24):
We're as down to earth and asbasic as we can be with the
information, putting on regularvideos, not telling people that
we're providing things we're not.
We have a community meal whichwe love.
I mean, that's just a bring andshare meal and it's usually
every Sunday afternoon.
We'll do a little bit of art,maybe once or twice a week.
If someone says, oh, doesanyone fancy a wander up to the
(30:46):
market, then I'll take all thenew family, we'll go up to the
market, then we'll do a littletour of the village.
It's only a small place butagain it's getting all the
families together and we've justhad a family here that left
three weeks ago and a familythat left this week.
The family that left this weekare going over to the UK.
They weren't even going to theUK before and week going over to
(31:10):
the UK.
They weren't even going to theUK before, and now they've
booked five days with the familythat left a couple of weeks
before because they've just metand their kids got on and my
daughter did as well.
It's amazing when you see thoseconnections and the parents too
, because it's not just aboutthe children, it's the family
situation and I think if you'retraveling it can be quite a
lonely place to be, depending onon what children you've got and
(31:31):
you know what ages they are andthings.
But connection is such anunderrated thing.
Jesper Conrad (31:38):
Yeah, I actually think that when I look back at
the life I had back inCopenhagen before we started
full time traveling, then therewas absolutely a community and a
lot of it came from thehomeschooling environment.
But if I look back before that,then I tried to serve my social
(31:58):
needs by the workplace andbecame friends with the people I
worked together with and stufflike that, stuff like that.
And I really love this deepercommunity feeling of living
together with people co-livingor living close, and I actually
think that we sometimes in thenormal eight to five everyday
(32:24):
job kind of lifestyle forget tohave a social life but we have
got our social appetite likedwelled or satiated by going to
work yeah, yeah, I would agree.
Corianda Shepherd (32:42):
That's how a lot of people manage.
It's like they're notnecessarily choosing their
social life.
It's sort of happening and, inthe very small amounts of time,
the snippets of life when you'reworking those hours.
And that quickly became veryrelevant to me because when I
became a single parent, I wassingle mom of five children for
(33:06):
five years.
So was just like right, whatcan I do?
So I set up my own promotion,my music promotions company and,
like I say, joel was alreadyworking alongside my company
with his company and four otherpeople who I knew two of them as
well.
So our community was with work,but it was a very creative
(33:27):
community and we I mean we'restill very good friends with all
of them now so it was more likewe chose our work life a bit
more.
It wasn't set hours and I thinkI was lucky to be able to do
that actually, but I only did itbecause I was pushed out of the
mainstream system.
I couldn't go and get a nine tofive job, so it almost helped
(33:50):
me find my circle.
Because of being a young mom orbecause of I was such a young
mom, but because of the boyshaving the issues they did one
being expelled at eight I had noone else who was going to take
him on and it was my job, right.
So I went back to uni and I wasdoing music and event
management.
My daughter was in the roomnext door doing their
(34:12):
performance music performance.
So we were at uni together,which was fantastic.
It was great fun and ourclasses worked together.
But again, I didn't finish thecourse.
And do I look at that and feelregret?
No, because I was needed withmy other son and he was 14 at
the time, so I couldn't finishthe course, but I was there for
(34:33):
him and that's what it enabledme to do.
I learned a lot and I was ableto continue with my business.
So I got everything but thepiece of paper saying that I'd
passed or whatever you know.
So to me, I always feel likeI'm grateful for the experiences
I've had, and also I'm gratefulthat I've got an open mind and
(34:54):
I'm just probably annoyinglyoptimistic in quite a few
situations, I think.
Cecilie Conrad (35:01):
Well, that makes you aim for the good stuff.
I think, yeah, it's a veryhealthy view.
It will create momentum in theright direction.
I was thinking this lifestylethat you've chosen, where you
choose the people you hang outwith, shutting down the Airbnb
and then choosing what familieswill come, and, of course, you
can't predict the future.
(35:21):
Unfortunately or maybefortunately none of us can do
that it just reminded me of.
We're fully nomadic and havebeen for seven years, and the
funny thing is we often get thequestion so how do you decide
where to go and what's on yourbucket list and what's the next
countries you want to visit?
(35:42):
And actually the reality hasbeen for the majority of the
time.
I'd say after maybe two orthree months, we realized the
adventure is the people, not theplace.
Yes, we don't choose where togo, we choose who to go.
You know, who do we want to gowith?
Do we want to travel with ussomewhere?
(36:03):
Yeah, or who do we want tovisit?
Or where is there a communitythat we could?
We don't do that.
Actually, we haven't done a lotof hubs and communities.
No, we just you know, oh, wehave some friends over there,
but we could bring these friendsand that would be a great match
.
And you know it's.
You know so funny how life isabout who you share it with I
(36:25):
absolutely agree fully nomadicand you think you want to see
the great pyramids and whateverrivers or cultures, or now I do
enjoy that.
It's just yeah, it's justnumber nine on the list.
When I think about where I wantto go, it's the first thing is
who do we?
Corianda Shepherd (36:44):
want to hang out with.
I'm totally with you on that.
And obviously where we're at atthe moment we don't go away
very often, so it's like havinga staycation, as they would call
it, and the people come to usagain.
That's suited where we wereback then because my boys didn't
like going away and I've stillgot one that doesn't really stay
away from the home, he justprefers.
(37:06):
Like you know, there's thisEnglish saying an English man's
house is his castle, Likeeverything is there, you know,
and he is very much like thatsuited what we needed at the
time.
But as Maggie gets older and themore and more people that come
through, we are doing like youwere saying about meeting people
that we then want to travel toor travel with.
(37:27):
We stay in touch and we've hada lot of return guests.
So over the last three yearswe've probably got five regular
families that come back and it'sgetting more each year.
There'll always be anotherfamily and I think we've just
met three great families in thelast two months that have
already said oh yeah, we'recoming back.
You know just the call Cause.
(37:48):
Oh yeah, we're coming back.
You know just the call becausewe're coming back soon.
And just to make thoseconnections is amazing.
And again, actually some ofthem come from the UK where,
like you say, the weather is notgreat.
But I'll go because the peoplethat we feel like part of their
lives, that is far more excitingto think, right, let's go and
(38:10):
hang out with these people thatwe love being around, the energy
that it creates, the vibe, isso much better than going
somewhere to see a building orsomething.
Yeah, I love architecture anddifferent countries and things
like this and different cultures, but sometimes it's just got to
be the basics of the people.
Jesper Conrad (38:29):
Oh yeah, and things are just better shared.
One of the first big trips wetook was like a month at
Tenerife many, many years agoand there we met up with the
brother of a friend and wetalked about why they had moved
and stuff like that, and he toldabout a ruined marriage back in
(38:51):
Denmark and how it was, and oneof the things he said that was
quite interesting and had thislong-term effect on me was that
he said the sunset is morebeautiful shared.
Corianda Shepherd (39:05):
Yeah.
Jesper Conrad (39:06):
And I think everything is more beautiful
shared, even us as a family.
We are five when we travel fulltime and two dogs, and it's
really wonderful and we can havea lot of joy together.
But us with another family, Iactually enjoy that even more.
There's more people to shareexperiences with, talks with,
(39:28):
and the sunsets just gets better.
Yeah, share them.
Corianda Shepherd (39:32):
Absolutely.
Cecilie Conrad (39:33):
Agree yeah.
Jesper Conrad (39:35):
Yeah, yeah.
What was your dream when youwere young?
Was it to end up on amountainside?
Corianda Shepherd (39:42):
So my nan lived here from when I was 11.
And so I visited from aroundthat age and my nan always told
me she was like a best friend tome, we called each other every
day and she passed away 19 yearsago so just after my son was
born, maybe a few weeks after hewas born and she always said to
(40:05):
me, corrie, you're gonna be insomeday.
And I love to obviously thinkthat and at the time I wasn't so
in control of what was going onEverything seemed to be
happening to me and me nothaving much control of what was
going on going forward.
So yeah, I mean I guess I madethings happen.
(40:25):
I started looking at things, atpossibilities, starting my own
company, working out, you know,getting the children to the
right ages as to when it couldwork for us.
But also a lot of it happenedto us.
So I then adapted and adjustedand my nan was a great person
for the outdoors as well.
She had my dad's the oldest offive, and so then I was the
(40:49):
oldest of five as well and shewas also the oldest of five.
So there's like there wasalways this strong connection.
She loved camping and when sheused to take my dad and all of
the family camping.
She would take loads of otherkids as well.
She was the mum that did that,that.
That was always surrounded byall the other children and she
(41:09):
loved adventure.
She had a great heart foradventure and a great sense of
fun and I wanted to carry someof that, you know, and I feel
like I do.
I've got something there thatconnects me still, even though
she's gone, and I'm so glad andI know she knows I'm here, you
know.
Cecilie Conrad (41:28):
Yeah, that's great yeah you haven't other
people around you like she didbasically yeah, yeah.
Corianda Shepherd (41:35):
I just want other people to benefit in the
ways we have and seeing theirchildren grow and strive for
something a little bit more,instead of putting up with
things that can change, and Iwant to let people know be
positive, go for these changes,you know.
Cecilie Conrad (41:56):
You said, in what I feel like is the
beginning of our conversation,something down the line of you
know you could sit down andthink about what your family
really need and what wouldactually work for your family.
And you said between the lines,or I reckon from the
conversation we've had, that youcould think that quite far
(42:20):
outside of the box of themainstream life, to think you
know how would it work, whatwould work when you're
struggling, when you maybe haveI don't know, that could be
stress, it could be kids withdiagnosis or just kids not
thriving in the system yeahcould be.
Many things could be maybe hardwith the marriage or sibling
rivalry, whatever.
(42:41):
Life is not working.
You're frustrated.
Maybe sit down to think aboutwhat would work.
I've been thinking about we havethis thing.
I say it very often how wouldthis look if it was easy?
Sometimes, when I get reallyfrustrated with a situation, I
(43:03):
just feel like it's justoverwhelming and I can't, I just
cannot make this work and itseems like this is the most
complicated and annoying thingand I there's no way out and I'm
just want to scream and Ibreathe and I think, how would
this look if it was easy?
(43:24):
And that makes also takes youquite far out of the box.
I, I mean, we live a quiteradical life and have done so
for many years, even before webecame fully nomadic, so we are
outside of what everyone wouldconsider a box.
But still, sometimes I do boxthinking.
You know, I think I have thisproblem and I have this problem
and I have this problem and it'sin here and there's nothing
outside of it.
(43:44):
And then you stop and you'relike okay, but if it was easy
and not this problem, how wouldit look?
Yeah, and that can just.
I'm saying this to the listenersmaybe more than to you
personally, because I kind ofget that you're doing that
already.
It can just sometimes open thewhole.
(44:06):
I just had a complicatedsituation with one conversation
with one of our kids yesterdaywho was struggling with a
problem, and I got myself caughtup into it, like okay, this is
actually really hard.
But then we stopped and we werelike, okay, but if it was not
hard, how would it look?
How would it look if it waseasy?
It's such an eye-openingbackflip of your own mind to do
(44:30):
that.
Corianda Shepherd (44:31):
Yeah.
Cecilie Conrad (44:33):
And I'm just impressed with what you said
before about being a single mom.
Lots of kids with all theletters, diagnosis, spectrum
things, thinking, okay, well,what could work?
Yeah, it's kind of the same aswhat if it was easy exactly.
Corianda Shepherd (44:54):
I didn't like the fact that we had all of
this external help coming intoour family life and I feel that,
family, you should support eachother.
That didn't really happen withmy parents and my family,
because they didn't fullyunderstand what was going on and
would often tell me to chastisemy children for being out of
(45:17):
turn, for example, because theydidn't see the anxieties and the
other things behind the stuff,where they were actually
struggling.
That was a massive thing for methat I chose when I had
children.
I will guide them, tell themwhat is right, what is wrong or
what, in my opinion, whenthey're young.
Jesper Conrad (45:34):
You touched on something I find quite
interesting, which is what isthe family structure?
You suppose you would have hadhelp from your family with the
challenges you had from your son, but it was not there.
Instead, care was outsourced tothe system and I am trying to
(45:58):
picture together in my mind whathave happened in our society
and culture since we have endedup where we are.
But I think I need to dive deepwith some some professor-like
type and go into it, because Ithink it's both the move from
being families in small culturesand societies on farms moving
(46:20):
into the big cities.
Yes, it's the nuclear familydevelopment living smaller.
Something also happened whenwomen began going to the
workplace.
Not that that is a bad thing,but all of a sudden we went from
having one parent at home tohaving no parent at home.
Corianda Shepherd (46:40):
It has an effect on how the families are
this is another important thing,actually, because he touched
earlier on the cultures and howthe cultures are different, and
what I'd always grown up withcoming over here in spain is the
family ties, and they are somuch more well they're they just
(47:02):
align with family life so muchbetter.
It's a family-centric country,I feel.
Being in Spain, you usuallywould have the grandparents
around, like we came past theschool earlier and no one I saw
there was under 70 picking upthe children and there must have
been 10 to 12 adults.
Now that's all the grandparents, because the parents are at
(47:25):
work.
So yes, like you say, both mumand dad out.
However, the grandparents stepinto that role and they do the
correction at two o'clock andthe lunch and the siesta time
and then they might cook fortheir children as well.
So for the parents of thechildren in school, all eat
together and then disperse backto school or the children go off
(47:47):
with their friends.
But it's so much of a familystructure here and I really feel
that having your children withyou and that being accepted is a
massive thing.
If you go out in the UK to arestaurant, if they serve
alcohol, you can't be in arestaurant, I believe, after 7
(48:08):
pm with your children.
But here you can turn up to afiesta.
It doesn't even start till 10pm and you're dancing there till
4 in the morning with a candyfloss, you know, yes, and you
all turn up home together andeverything's great.
Yeah, the whole family arethere and it's just such a
(48:32):
different vibe and our childrenneeded that.
They needed to feel surroundedby something held.
Held, you know, and when you'rein the UK it's children there,
adults there, you know, on alevel sort of thing.
The children are like seen butnot heard is what the English
would say.
Cecilie Conrad (48:53):
And if you're plus 70, you're in a nursing
home.
You're not walking the paseowith your grandchildren, yeah.
Jesper Conrad (49:00):
But also imagine what you're telling you as a
parent, what the state told youor the society.
It's like hey, Corey, you'renot good enough to handle your
own child here.
You're not capable of givinghim what he needs.
Yeah, that is not a good placeto help from if that's the
(49:20):
message you get no, it is.
Corianda Shepherd (49:23):
This is the gray area for us at the moment
and this is our difficult thing.
We've got to this point.
Like I say, we've beenhomeschooling maggie since march
last year, like straightthrough, and then in february
this year we got a message fromsocial services to go in, and
also the guardia turned up witha letter that, when we opened it
(49:46):
, told us that we had to be downin almeria meeting with a
prosecutor the next day.
So joel and I drove down thereand basically, homeschooling is
classed as illegal.
Now, when you check out the law, it says that you're obligated
to provide an education for asix to 16 year olds.
(50:09):
It doesn't, however, stipulatethat it's got to be in a school.
So we felt okay about doingthis, and we know there are many
other home educators in spain.
However, if you're living here,yeah, a lot of people look down
on you and go well, you movedthere, so you should follow the
(50:29):
rules, but it doesn't fit ourdaughter.
So we were told that we wouldreceive a 6 000 euro, fine, or
possibly have our child takenaway.
You know, it's just ideasthrown out there.
Now this is in a country wherewe feel completely at home, so
(50:51):
this has been like a bit ofupset and people saying to us,
oh, you're gonna have to moveaway, there's no way around it.
And I'm like, no, we're not,we're not moving away.
This is our life here.
You know, we're committed fullyto being here and we love
everything other than this in mymind, this small thing that
should be able to be changed.
(51:12):
Now we're looking into waysaround it that will allow us to
homeschool.
Initially we were completelylike thrown by it and we put our
daughter back into an evensmaller school.
So again, the 70 children thatwas, you know, a good size.
But the other school 15 minutesaway only had seven children
(51:37):
completely aged from three to 11children completely age from
three to eleven.
So we felt we felt like we weresort of pressured to put her in
there.
So we did for four weeks, forthe whole four weeks she was
back in there.
She changed massively and whenshe would get home from school
(52:00):
it's nine till two, so it's nota massively long day.
She became overwhelmed by and,like I say, it's not a large
group there, but overwhelmed byhaving the structure and
everything to fit to and thechanges throughout the day.
We go by natural sleep patterns,for example in our house.
(52:22):
So Maggie will go to bed at thesame time as us every evening
and wake up naturally around10am 10.30am in the morning.
Now that works for her and shehas a very productive day
afterwards.
We can get our bits of workdone and then have time with her
when she's up as well.
So we feel like that's worksperfectly.
But obviously we're thengetting her up.
(52:44):
We were having to dress herwhile she was asleep because her
sleep pattern just didn't fit.
Get there for nine and she wascrying.
And that is exactly.
This is not a child that cries.
She is super happy, really Idon't know articulate, and she
(53:05):
can explain exactly how she felt.
And when she was getting homein the afternoon she was
climbing into bed at 2 30 we'djust about get some food inside
her and then she'd go I'm gonnago and lay down and you'd look
in and she'd just be like layingand she was getting quieter,
more introverted just in thefour weeks.
(53:26):
So we pulled her again and weboth decided at that point it
was difficult because they'rethinking oh my god, we could get
into real trouble for this.
But essentially, what did wecome here for?
And and we've done this before,we fought for this before, and
so let's do what we know isright.
We don't want to damage ourchild.
(53:47):
We don't want to allow that tobe a thing of our everyday life.
So at the moment, we had ameeting with the school
yesterday and they've allowed us, as such, not to sign her in.
They even said to us that theyhaven't got an opinion on us
homeschooling.
They're not against it as such,but as professionals and as a
(54:08):
head teacher and class teacher,they can't help us, if you know
what I mean, because then theywould be seen as going against
the law that you know thatapplies to them, so that that's
fair enough.
They were all very polite aboutit and everything like that.
So we've signed out.
School term finishes June 22ndusually, and then restarts
(54:28):
mid-September.
So from now until then we'refine and we're just going to be.
We've got we put a post outabout this to be quite open and
honest and to say life can seemperfect, but there's always
something, you know, that canjust throw something in there or
(54:49):
throw you just like whoa.
That's a curveball that Ididn't expect, you know.
But again, it's adaptability,it's learning what you could do,
what you can put.
You know we've got a lot ofavenues now to check out.
We've been given the number oftwo, the contacts of two lawyers
over here that are bothhomeschooling mums and Spanish.
(55:09):
So again, we're applying thedifferent contacts and hopefully
working our way towards findingsomething that can.
Cecilie Conrad (55:19):
Oh, I'm sure you will.
I'm sure you will.
You wouldn't be the first inspain who found a way.
Yeah, we should have aconversation again, and after
the summer november ish.
And you how you did it?
Because it's a big deal for alot of people who want to be in
spain.
How do they?
Corianda Shepherd (55:34):
get exactly.
We've had so many peoplecontact us and I think only one
person out of about 160 comments.
One person said you moved there, deal with it.
The rest of the people werelike, actually, how do you know
what your child's going to belike?
And so you're saying choose thesystem over your child.
Is that what you're saying?
Jesper Conrad (55:55):
I would like to quote a fellow unschooling,
homeschooling, world schoolingtraveler and friend of ours,
carla Martinez, who says theamount of freedom you have or
can get equals the amount ofuncertainty you are willing to
walk through.
And sometimes, in thislifestyle we have chosen, you
(56:19):
meet obstacles, challenges, andthen you adapt and you need to
adapt.
Cecilie Conrad (56:25):
Or you make the world adapt.
Corianda Shepherd (56:26):
The one thing that I really want people to
not be scared of moving to Spainor visiting Spain, because I
think there's so many countriestrying to take control, so many
governments trying to takecontrol of the educational
system and how and where we caneducate our children.
Now there's so many people thatfeel like they're I don't know
(56:47):
refugees, almost likeeducational refugees.
They're moving from country tocountry trying to find something
that fits.
Now, what we provide,ironically, isn't suitable or
enough to qualify for ourdaughter because we're residents
here, but it does qualify otherpeople to stay for up to three
(57:08):
months, usually on their visas,depending.
They can stay here for threemonths and homeschool and be
within the legal rights.
So it's not that it's notrecognized here, but if you live
here and you are resident here,they want you in the system.
Just to say, there's plenty ofcommunities around in spain as
(57:30):
well, and they're very beautifuland the culture that you will
be immersing your children inhas also got a lot to give.
So I just yeah, I just don'twant people to feel like spain,
oh, we can't go there.
Cecilie Conrad (57:43):
Homeschooling is illegal, you know, because as
long as you're not a resident,it's not a problem.
Jesper Conrad (57:48):
I think we've spent a year and a half combined
in spain you mentioned howspain is very family-centric in
their culture and it wasinteresting for me.
We traveled to spain and had itas a hub where we were like
three or four months a year inSpain to see how both the
(58:08):
grandparents but also the youngadults still was a part of the
family and lived at home.
In Denmark, you move out whenyou're like 18 or something, and
here it was, oh.
You can actually enjoy beingtogether with your family so
long that the culture I comefrom.
I started to ask questions tomyself about why it's my normal
(58:33):
like that.
Cecilie Conrad (58:34):
Yeah, so the grandparents picking up from
school being part of thisfamily-centric culture, I think
it's great.
It looks great, you know, andwarms your heart, but at the
same time, because of thisliberation of the women and
women in the workforce and themodern culture of the two
incomes and all things, I mean,I'm obviously not against
(58:57):
equality between the genders,but at the same time I really
have a problem with the factthat we've created a shared.
One of the shared elements ofall the cultures we usually call
the Western world is that youhave the two.
Both parents work outside ofthe home, which means basically
no one really has time for thechildren.
And we hire professionals tohave time for the children, but
(59:19):
that's one professional to 30children, something like that.
That's obviously ridiculouswhen you look at it.
When you have two or three orfour children yourself and you
feel pretty busy taking care ofthem, then having five times
that amount of kids obviouslythe suffering I mean.
And how can we be so fortunate,so wealthy, in such a
(59:40):
progressive and amazing world oftechnology and abundance and no
one takes care of the mostprecious element our children?
It makes no sense to me.
It's great to have thegrandparents step in there, but
at the same time I also feel inthere, but at the same time I
also feel, as you've saidseveral times in this podcast,
(01:00:04):
I'm the mom, you're the dad.
The parents are supposed totake care of the children, not
the system.
Should we stop for a minute andthink about having created a
culture?
Corianda Shepherd (01:00:16):
where no one really has the time to take care
of the children.
I think it will make a lot ofpeople question it as well,
though, because that's whatwe're doing essentially is we're
taking back our rights.
Our obligation is to ourchildren.
Why are we obligated to who?
To pass our children to someoneelse?
My obligation when I fellpregnant with my children is to
(01:00:37):
my child to make sure they arehappy, well-rounded and enabled
to do the things they love andenjoy in life, and it's your
problem.
Cecilie Conrad (01:00:47):
No one else as well, maybe the dad.
Jesper Conrad (01:00:48):
But yeah, exactly , full stop, man so it's my
opinion coriander, it has been apleasure and I would like to
ask you to share how people canfind out more about your project
if they want to read about it,if they want to visit, if they
just want to follow you onsocial media.
So I will also put it in theshow notes, of course, for the
(01:01:12):
people just listening.
Corianda Shepherd (01:01:13):
if you can wrap up this episode, Perfect,
get in touch with us if you'reinterested in coming over here.
Basically, we've got a websitethat describes how it is to be
here and what goes on here, andthat's wwwshepherdsrestorg.
And yeah, we've got a Facebookpage as well, which is Shepherds
Rest.
(01:01:33):
And, yeah, just come on over,even if you just want to ask
some questions or you know.
Message.
Jesper Conrad (01:01:40):
We will invite people to do that and finish up
by saying goodbye.
It has been a pleasure.
Corianda Shepherd (01:01:46):
It has been a pleasure.
Thanks so much for having me.
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