February 7, 2025 • 64 mins
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Get ready to be blown away by human resilience through the story of our special guest, Jenn Reno. Do you suffer from or know someone who is suffering with chronic pain and addiction looking for support, relief and healing? This episode is exactly where you're supposed to be.
Jenn Reno is a Meditation Teacher, Reiki Healer, Sound Healer and Pain Warrior with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS). Connect with Jenn on Instagram to book your breathing and healing session…
Timestamps to help you navigate this episode...
0:00 Intro
0:24 FREE Self Love & Sweat MONTHLY Calendar
5:17 A Life Shaped By Nature
16:21 Healing Through Meditation and Mindfulness
33:49 Reiki, Sensitivity, and Self-Understanding
43:31 The Gift of Mindfulness
56:42 Empowerment Through Meditation and Healing
IG: @jennreno
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2 FREE HIGH INTENSITY RESISTANCE TRAINING WORKOUTS: https://lifelikelunden.activehosted.com/f/169
One-On-One Life Coaching & NLP with Lunden:
http://lifelikelunden.com/vip
Connect with Lunden:
IG: @lifelikelunden
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LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lundensouza/
Twitter: @lifelikelunden
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Podcast Sound Design Intro & Outro: https://hitspotaudio.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lunden Souza (00:00):
Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the
place where you'll get inspiredto live your life
unapologetically, embrace yourperfect imperfections and do
what sets your soul on fire.
I'm your host, Lunden Souza.
Hey, before we jump into thisepisode, I just want to make
(00:27):
sure that you get all the freethings possible, If you haven't
already.
You need to get your self-loveand sweat free monthly life
coaching calendar.
Honestly, the way to experiencedeep change in your life is by
doing small little things overtime, and so that's what you'll
(00:48):
find in this free calendar.
You can get it by going tolifelikelunden.
com/calendar.
Get yours for free and let'sget into today's episode
Welcome back to the podcast.
Today we have Jenn Reno that Iget to, that you guys have the
pleasure of listening to, but Ialso feel like as the host or
(01:11):
whatever that means of thispodcast.
I always get to have the honorof just connecting with some of
the most beautiful, amazingpeople ever, and I met Jenn kind
of recently, but I justimmediately, yeah, fell in love
with her and I just am soexcited to have a conversation
(01:31):
with you today, Jenn, Welcome tothe podcast.
Jenn Reno (01:34):
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Lunden Souza (01:38):
One of the or how I kind of want to start.
This is a couple of weeks ago.
I posted up or I recorded anepisode about reflections on my
36th birthday and that episodewas really like a no plan plan,
I like to call it.
I just was like whatever, Ijust know I want to reflect and
I'm just going to press recordand go and I remember afterwards
(02:00):
thinking like, did that evenmake sense?
I don't even know if I saidanything clearly, cohesively,
whatever, and I don't reallygenerally go back and listen to
episodes, like I do sometimes,but it's more just like press
record, put it out there.
But I went back and listened andI was like, oh, actually I kind
of did make sense, like I kindof, you know, did kind of pull
(02:23):
it together, and you called andleft me a voicemail just sharing
about how the part that Imentioned about being messy and
being able to do what we dodespite the mess or while we're
in the mess and we can be messy,and and so Jenn called me and
(02:43):
left me a voicemail justaffirming my mess and it felt so
good and I felt so seen andheard and I just love you and
I'm so grateful that you agreedto be here on the podcast.
I'm so grateful that I met youand I'm so grateful for your
reflections that you also sharedwith me about your mess and
(03:06):
insecurities a little bit aroundthe mess and all of that.
So thank you for you.
Jenn Reno (03:10):
I mean, I just can't even tell you how much you've
helped my life so far and whatis it?
It hasn't been a long time thatI've known you, but it feels
like it's been years, just like,if it's communication, you know
, I did your course and itreally had me like the
self-proclaimed, like I've beenin therapy my whole life.
(03:32):
Person, you know, was like ohshoot, like I really need to
take some steps back and look atthe way I communicate.
And then, yeah, when you sharedabout, you know, the mess and
it's like we're all in and outof that mess and that's really
what we have to do.
(03:54):
And it feels like in the line ofwork that we're both in, you
know, like wellness, self-help,raising your vibration.
It's like you feel like youshould always be up here and
just succeeding and thriving andnever making mistakes.
And it's not possible, likeit's not possible and it's
(04:22):
really, you know, that's likewhere the growth happens right
Is when we allow ourselves to bein that mess kind of sort the
mess like okay, this is workingfor me, this is working, this is
not working for me.
And while I feel like it's safeand I need to hold on to it, I
need to let it go because it'snot helping.
(04:43):
So sorting through that messand having your soul, family
around you to support in thattime is so important.
And then you come out andyou're like, oh, I'm back, I'm
back.
Lunden Souza (04:55):
Yeah, sorting through the mess.
That's what I was thinking whenyou were talking and then you
said it Sorting through the mess, being able to sit in it,
understand it a little bit, butchoosing not to stay there.
Tell us a little bit more aboutyou and what you do and who you
are in this world.
Jenn Reno (05:17):
I mean, it's like, where do you even start?
So much of who I am is becauseof where I grew up.
I grew up in what I believe isone of the most beautiful places
in the world Jackson Hole,wyoming and I'm like a nature
nerd from the get-go.
(05:39):
Being outside in nature hasalways been very important to me
and has been a lot of mypurpose in my life of whether
it's purpose and what brought mehappiness was camping and
snowboarding and climbing andfly fishing, growing up on the
river, um, to going to collegefor conservation, biology and
(06:01):
wanting to fight to save thesebeautiful places and um, so I
always go back to like man, likegrowing up there really
imprinted so much of who I amtoday, um, and every time I go
back there it's just like like abig, like.
This is my home home, um, I amnow a mama, I have a
(06:28):
four-year-old, I am a meditationteacher, a light worker, sound
healer, um, and really havefound all of these things
because of my own struggles andum.
You know we talked about thelike turning pain into purpose,
(06:48):
and um, I never meant to becomea teacher of any of this.
I really was just trying tofind relief within my own
existence and then became ateacher and a healer, and, um, I
just feel like what I found,this like relief and this magic
(07:10):
and, um, the people who areattracted to this, this world.
It saved my life and I want toshare it with anybody who wants
to make a change in their life,you know, whether it's just with
work or a relationship, orreally deep, deep, deep soul
searching.
Um, I know it's like awellspring of um of hope and
(07:34):
relief to get into this worldand it makes me a better mom, a
better partner, a better friend.
Um, and I'm constantly learningbecause I'm surrounded with
people like you, um, and our,our NABA family.
Um, you know so manyperspectives.
(07:54):
It's like when you think youknow exactly who you are or what
you want, um, you hearsomething out of somebody else's
mouth that maybe you've heardbefore, but it just wasn't the
right person, and you're like,oh wait, I want that too.
That sounds like a really good,beautiful thing to add to my
life and I want to learn allabout it.
(08:16):
So I feel like I'm constantly astudent.
Um, I want to.
I want to keep evolving andjust kind of showing up as much
as I can, right, because, likewe said, we have these periods
(08:36):
in our life and I've had quite alife of health issues with a
genetic disorder calledEhlers-Danlos syndrome, had over
20 surgeries, I have beenbrought back from the other side
, I have been in hospital bedsfor many months of my life.
(08:58):
I have had brain leaks, allthese things and, um, it's like
the people who have come into mylife because of all of these,
what you know, some of them werepretty horrific experiences.
Like I'm, I can't believe howlucky I am that I have found the
people I did and I wouldn'thave if it weren't for this
(09:21):
disease, this disease, thisdisorder, and so, you know,
while I was really just tryingto find my way out of chronic
pain and all these things, Ifound a lot of magic and I feel
like that's a lot of information.
Lunden Souza (09:41):
But yeah, you said showing up and wanting to
continue to show up and you justso, like casually, it rolls off
the tongue like 20 surgeries, Iguess a near death experience
or maybe you did die, I'm notsure, I don't know that part of
your story and being in chronicpain and still showing up, how
(10:03):
does one do that?
How do you wake up and be a momto your beautiful daughter, who
I love?
I haven't met her in person yet, but I call her my bestie
because I know that the second Iget to meet her we're going to
be besties for life.
It's already written.
But how do you show up, beingsomeone who experiences chronic
(10:24):
pain and still see that magic?
Jenn Reno (10:27):
Well, there's been many seasons in my life where I
couldn't show up, like literallycouldn't walk to go to the
bathroom, would have to armycrawl.
I couldn't show up at all.
And it's been a long time since.
Since I started meditatingactually is when, like,
(10:50):
everything shifted for me,because I really was living in
constant fear of, like, whatsurgery was going to be next.
Um, there's a lot of informationthat's coming out about
Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, so, like, if you haven't heard of it yet
, you will start to meet peopleor read about it in the news.
But for a long time it was justkind of like doctors wouldn't
(11:12):
listen to me.
I didn't get diagnosed until Iwas in my 30s, you know.
So it was a lot of like, oh,you're just too active or you
need to work out more, and I'mlike, I'm a personal trainer,
like I live in the gym, um, youknow, not feeling heard for a
really long time and just beingtold, um, that it wasn't that
(11:33):
bad, even though I neededsurgeries and they were always
having to operate, um, and so Ijust like shut down for a long,
long time, and then I wouldn'teven go to the doctor for pretty
serious things, and by the timeI would go, they'd be like, why
didn't you come sooner?
And it's like, well, becauseevery time I come, you basically
tell me nothing's wrong with me, um, or that it's like a
(11:56):
trending thing to have, where,when I all I wanted was a
diagnosis, so I could likefigure out how to, so I could
like figure out how to, how tolive better, and so, yeah,
there's a lot of times where Ijust really was in a dark place.
I had suicidal ideations, withchronic pain, I felt very
(12:20):
isolated and alone for so longand I've been in those periods,
off and on, where it's like Ifeel so guilty because I am,
like you know, a white womanwith a lot of privilege and
access to see whoever I wantalmost you know and I have great
friends and family and anawesome partner.
(12:42):
But I didn't ever want to be aburden, and that really also
stems from, like childhood stuffmy mom where basic needs were
often a burden, and I never wantto be that person.
I want to be the person showingup and like helping you and
then, seriously, within fourdays of starting meditation like
(13:05):
an actual practice of like onein the morning, one in the
afternoon bookends on the fourthday of that, my whole life
changed and it's I've never goneback.
So, like, while I wake up and Ihave, you know, a few weeks ago
I was in bed because my lowerback is starting to hurt again
and my hip and I get Harper outthe door Like there's things I
(13:26):
have to do and that need to getdone, but then I come and lay in
bed, you know, for six hoursand or go sit in my sauna or
whatever it is that I need to do.
But really, since meditation,um, I've never gotten back to
that place of such complete fear.
(13:46):
I'm more in a like, okay, ifsomething hurts and I might need
another surgery, I'm like, okay, great, I'm going to do
everything I can before thatsurgery to prepare for it.
I always train for surgeries,body allowing, like I did when I
was a competitive snowboarder.
I want to be as strong as I can.
I need my body to be, you know,detoxed and clean, um, and a
(14:11):
lot of meditation and workaround that and going into
surgery with, um, you know,nervous system down and um, I
just know that I am taken careof and as long as I have my
breath, I'm okay.
But you know, there are dayswhen I want to set my hair on
(14:31):
fire when I'm trying to parent atoddler, but I'm breaking that
generational trauma betweenmothers and daughters, like I'm
not going to make my daughterfeel like a burden, because
she's four years old and is akiddo and has her needs, like
she needs me, and so it's myresponsibility to do everything
(14:55):
I can, um, to not snap, becauseI was getting there at one point
and I immediately was like,okay, I need to go back to
therapy.
I started microdosing.
Um, you know, again, this islike a very first world thing
where I had a friend who gave mereally good advice.
(15:17):
She was a client, turned one ofmy best friends.
Now, if, like, there wasanything that was causing stress
between Eric and I that moneycould fix, do it.
And if you have it and that wasfor me, calling a babysitter
more often and taking time to gocold plunge and sauna and, you
know, self-care.
(15:37):
So, while life with chronicpain and parenting like don't
really go hand in hand together,it's my responsibility to take
care of myself and just like itis, like, even if before I had
Harper, you know to be a betterparent or a better, um, uh,
(16:02):
partner, a better friend.
You know, like to do as much asI can, and sometimes the best
that I could do is lay in bedand just maybe text a friend,
and sometimes also askingfriends for help, because
friends like to help, you know.
Lunden Souza (16:17):
Yeah, so yeah, meditation.
I love what you said about thatfourth session Not that for
everybody, it's that but I'malso thinking, too, like you're
going to all these doctors.
They're discovering more aboutyour diagnosis and all those
things.
(16:38):
I wasn't at these doctor'sappointments with you, but I'm
probably certain that theyweren't prescribing meditation
and breath right.
But how did you discover thispractice and these bookends?
Like, what were you actuallydoing?
I mean, I know I meditate, Iknow what that is, but for those
(16:58):
listening, sometimes people arelike, well, I can't quiet my
mind or I can't sit there.
Sometimes people are like, well, I can't quiet my mind or I
can't sit there.
And how do you meditate?
What did those bookends looklike?
What were you doing?
Jenn Reno (17:11):
Yeah, no, no doctors were giving me any advice on
what to do.
There is prescribingmedications and things like that
.
But, um, my neurosurgeonactually I had my first spine
surgery about 12 years ago andwithin that spine surgery I got
(17:37):
a brain leak and then had to bein the hospital and was so
drugged up I was like in like adrug induced coma, breathing on
my own, but remember nothing,because they had to get a team
of doctors, of neurosurgeonstogether to figure out how to
operate on this brain leak thatI had.
They didn't know where it waslocated.
They're calling my family.
(17:59):
Somebody needs to get out toCalifornia.
And when I woke up from thesurgery I can't remember if it
was my neurosurgeon or one ofthe doctors saying you might
find yourself having a reallyhard time after this surgery
because, while you don'tremember any of what happened
(18:19):
this last week, your body does.
And I didn't know what theymeant.
And I was also just two yearsclean too.
So, like all my other surgeries, I would drink and do drugs
after because painkillers mademe so sick and I was also just a
drug addict, so there was that.
But, um, so this was also myfirst surgery clean, so I didn't
(18:41):
have any of those things.
It was in a neck brace whichfelt very scary, and all of a
sudden I started having panicattacks and like
hyperventilating, and I wouldjust be on a walk with my dog
and I would be like a mess onthe side of the road and my
neurosurgeon was like, do youpaint?
And I was like no, I don'treally know how.
(19:02):
And he goes go get an easel,easel and some paint.
And like let's start tappinginto that part of the brain when
you go into these moments orbefore that happens.
And so I started painting a lotand loving that and finding
like some calm in that.
And then I needed a secondsurgery not long after that on
my spine and I was in so muchpain and I was so angry and
(19:25):
frustrated and before that I hadhad five shoulder
reconstructions, um, a full hipreconstruction in between the
two spine surgeries, three kneesurgeries, a full ankle surgery,
appendectomy Like I had had allthese joints operated on.
But I didn't really understandthe spine and it's like that,
(19:47):
how spine pain really affectsyour emotional stability.
So I'm in my neurosurgeon'soffice and I'm crying and I'm
cussing and he's like looking atthe x-ray and he's like I see
what's wrong.
Your neck isn't broken, You'renot going to die.
You do need surgery, but I willnot operate on you.
(20:08):
When you are this heightened,your surgery, your recovery will
be so much harder.
And he told me I needed to seethe pain.
Psychologist, um, which in mymind was again somebody saying
it's not that bad, this painisn't real.
Like go see a shrink and youneed to meditate.
(20:29):
And I told him to fuck off.
I slammed the door, said fuckyou, and I went back with my
tail between my legs and agreedto see the pain psychologist and
didn't meditate for like 12years later, six years later,
seven years later I guess Istill talk to that pain
(20:49):
psychologist to this day Um, andit really was.
Um.
After five more spine surgeriesthroughout the years, I really
injured my neck really horriblyand was given the gift of
desperation.
Basically, um, I had startedmeditating a little bit with the
(21:13):
insight timer and I had a spinesurgery and then I got another
brain leak.
This one wasn't as bad, so Iwas unconscious, but I had to
lay completely flat in thehospital for a week before the
next surgery.
I typed in pain and the topics,for you can type in whatever
you're going through on Insightand it will fill your feed with
(21:34):
different meditations or Dharmatalks and things that go along
with that.
And this teacher, david G,popped up and he had a
meditation on the body's abilityto heal and repair itself.
I listened to that probablythousands of times in the
following months, like rightbefore surgery that morning,
immediately after and for themonths following probably three
(21:58):
times a day, and the mantras,just everything resonated so
much with me.
But I was still kind of justcrisis meditating right Cause I
was in so much pain and I wasmiserable but, like I was
desperate and then I found I wasscrolling on Instagram months
later cause I wasn't able towork for over a year after that
surgery.
That um, a studio in LosAngeles, was doing a teacher
(22:22):
training with David G, and I hadbeen attending some live
meditations to in Venice.
But again it was just like, oh,I'm free tonight, I'll go to
one, but not establishing like areal practice.
And I was like you know, thiscould be really good for me to a
like, I just wanted to learnmore about meditation, like what
(22:44):
it really was, and all thedifferent techniques and styles
and things, um, and to deepen mypractice.
And so I did this teachertraining with David G and um.
It was six weeks, you know,like 200 hours, and we had to
meditate twice a day, every day,the entire time, and we did it
through the unplug meditationapp, which I'm now on with
(23:07):
healing meditations.
Every meditation we listened towas a different teacher, a
different style.
You know different techniques.
You find your people with thevoice you like, or you know
guided visualizations, mantrameditations, all these different
things.
So you are experiencing thewhole spectrum of meditation,
(23:28):
probably outside of TM and um.
On the fourth day I realized Ihadn't taken a painkiller in
three days, hadn't even thoughtabout them.
Um, I was sitting at a coffeeshop, studying in Venice, and I
was like whoa, like it blew mymind because I was just
(23:50):
recovering from this huge spinesurgery.
I was still in a lot of pain.
I took those things, you know,a couple of times a day.
I checked in with my body and Iwas like I hurt but I could
just be with it and that's likehow I am now.
It's like pain comes but I'mnot afraid of it anymore either,
(24:11):
like I'm, I'm not afraid of it.
I'm not going to say that Idon't cry and get angry, that I
you know it's there sometimes orholding me back from doing
something I want, but I'm notafraid of it like I used to be.
And I was also just afraid ofthe world, like when, you, you
know, I grew up in a really notgreat home with my mom when I
(24:38):
was little.
She was a lovely person,beautiful, but she was very sick
and um, a lot of childhoodabuse and, um, you know that
followed into my choices as anadult, in relationships too, of
like that pretty textbook.
I engaged to a drink todayalcoholic, who was abusive, just
(24:59):
like my mother, you know.
Um, so I was afraid of theworld and I didn't know how to
make very good decisions and Iwas also just a person who felt
safe.
Right, we're talking about thatmess, we're sorting through
where you're like I should getrid of this.
But I feel safe to keep itsafer with.
(25:20):
The extremes of things arereally good or really bad.
But if things are just likeright here and mellow and like
floating along, that was reallyuncomfortable for me and I would
do things to sabotage that.
Whether it was a relationshipor maybe a job usually
relationships If somebody waslike actually really good for me
(25:42):
and I was like Ooh, can't havethat, you know, like too safe
too good.
Yep.
So once I with meditation, youknow, on that, after that fourth
day, it was, like you know,they say it's not always what
happens in the meditation, butwhat happens outside of it.
(26:04):
Right, like, what is your worldlike afterwards?
And it really was like it waslike a movie.
I feel like all of a sudden Icould just like walk around like
the streets and I'd be like, oh, the flowers and like bluebirds
and things you know, and myanxiety changed.
I used to carry around Klonopinor Xanax as well, just in case,
(26:29):
like I always knew it was by meif I needed it.
And it's like, all of a sudden,my anxiety.
I tell this to a lot of clientsnow because it really helped me
and I do this with my pain aswell.
So when COVID started, I got alot more clients right, virtual
(26:53):
meditation clients all over theworld, and and it was like
teaching them to talk to theiranxiety, like you would a little
kid right, when a little kidfalls and scrape their knees,
you're like, oh, that hurts,doesn't it?
Yeah, you fell and you scrapedit and that's a hard thing to
(27:14):
fall on and, yeah, that doeshurt.
You know, like for me, I'm notgoing to be like, oh, it's not
that bad, get up, it's like okay, let's talk that bad, get up,
you know.
It's like okay, let's talkabout what happened and look at
where we are and then you know,kind of take care of it and then
move on from there.
So with anxiety, I could tellpeople during the pandemic of
(27:35):
like, well, of course you haveanxiety Like we've.
None of us have lived through apandemic, none of us have lived
through a pandemic.
This is new.
Like you should have anxietyand it's okay, it's there, and
so, while some people it took alot longer than others to kind
of adopt that practice I do thatwith, I really like rarely get
(27:58):
anxiety anymore, but if my neckis hurting in the middle of the
night, I'm like, yeah, your neckshould hurt you.
Even though you're a year and ahalf out of your last surgery,
you could still be healing.
You have a lot of titanium inthere.
That it's not normal.
Like this is a foreign objectin your body, like I just talked
to it, and it kind of like itdissipates, you know, Um.
(28:22):
And so whenever there'ssomething with you know anxiety
too, I'm like, yeah, you shouldfeel anxious.
Like you've never been a, amother to a toddler during, uh,
you know the state of where weare.
You know, um, you want toprotect her, and so it's just
weird, like it's wild, and it istruly what everybody said.
(28:46):
It was Right.
But I was like, no, I'm justlike an athlete, like I can't
meditate.
I don't meditate.
I wish I would have had it as achild.
I would love to know whatversion, what I would have been
like if I had a meditationpractice as a child.
(29:09):
Like what, what would I looklike as an adult, right?
Like what could I have savedmyself from you know?
Um, and that's like I, justeverybody I meet too, like when
they talk to me about what I doand they're like oh yeah, I
(29:30):
should probably meditate, but Ican't, and I'm like you can.
Lunden Souza (29:34):
You can, especially thinking about the
version of you that told thedoctor to fuck off and then,
years later, getting to thatfirst meditation.
Of course, your response now islike, oh, trust me, you can,
but let's get to that moment.
From fuck off, doctor, all theway leading up to that moment,
(29:54):
you decided to meditate for thefirst time.
What happened?
Did you just decide, okay, fuckit, I'm just going to try it.
What do I have to lose?
Jenn Reno (30:03):
Or like I think I'm trying to remember exactly why.
It was around a new year comingup and I told my partner.
I said my new year's resolutionwhich I don't really make
resolutions usually, but I waslike is going to be to meditate
and I'm like, and I'm serious, Ineed to like join a group so
(30:25):
I'm there with people and, likesome, have somewhat of like
accountability to be there and,um, because you know, even now,
like as much as I talk about Ilove meditation, there's often
where I'm like I'd rather justkind of sit on the couch and
watch a show right now beforeI'm from school, like I'd kind
(30:45):
of, you know, like I couldalways find 27 other things to
do before that, but I know I'mgoing to feel better after that,
rather than sitting, I mean,while I do love to sit on the
couch and watch Both and.
(31:12):
But so just literally 30 minutesafter I told him I wanted to
join a meditation group, we wereon a walk in Venice and they're
on a building.
On this white building, it saidmeditate in black, huge.
And I was like what the fuck isthat?
It was new, because we walkthat street all the time and I
run across the street and mushmy face up against the window of
whatever business this is.
They weren't open yet and theyhad literally just they were
just putting it all together.
(31:33):
And as soon as they opened, Iwent to my first meditation and
my teacher, peter Opperman he'sthis lovely man and it was a
future self meditation.
So for years doctors told melike you probably shouldn't even
try to carry a pregnancy,there's, your body's not gonna
allow it.
Um, and I always wanted to be amom and in this future self
(31:58):
meditation and I think also Ilike he, they told us like
really guided us on your breathand that you're supposed to have
thoughts and things like that,where years before, I thought
you had to be clear, free andclear of all thoughts, like I
thought I, you know, was justgoing to be thinking about
nothing and I never askedquestions too right, like I had
(32:21):
way too much ego to be.
Like, how do you meditate?
Like what is it even really?
And now I'm one people, I'mlike it's breathing, truly it's
breathing.
But I didn't know that.
And so, once I asked questionsand I found the right teacher,
I'm guided in this meditationand I meet my future self.
I have a kid on my hip.
(32:42):
Meditation, and I meet myfuture self.
I have a kid on my hip.
At the time I was in Ayurvedicmedical school.
I see all my Ayurvedic herbs inthe corner of my kitchen.
My thing was I always wanted ahouse with a lemon tree, which I
now have, and a daughter, andso at the end of the meditation
I was like, can I work with youprivately?
Like you're going to change mylife?
(33:02):
And so I started doing privatesessions with him a little bit,
not twice a day and he's the onewho told me about insight time
or like hey, I suggest you dothis, um, on your own.
And, um, I worked with him.
I was having a spine surgeryand I worked with him, like all
the days leading up to it and assoon as I got out of the
(33:23):
hospital, worked with him and,yeah, I just, but I still was
kind of in crisis meditationmode, but literally a sign in
the sky that said meditate.
You know, it was perfect.
And that place really, um, Iended up teaching there after I
(33:44):
got certified.
It's where I um really studiedReiki healing as well.
And, again, I never intended tobe a Reiki healer.
I just wanted to understand myexistence in the world, like how
I could exist more comfortablyin the world.
I didn't.
I was starting.
Once I stopped doing drugs andI got clean, I started to notice
(34:06):
how sensitive to other people Iam.
I mean, even, like you can see,like I blush really easily and
like when I'm in conversationsthat I'm so excited about, um,
I'd be around a crowd of peopleand I'd be shaking and I was
like, oh, this is why I diddrugs so much, like I couldn't
go to a concert without doingdrugs and numbing out, you know.
So I studied Reiki, um, just tohelp myself.
(34:30):
And to.
You know, I always thought itwas, something was wrong with me
.
Um, I just I didn't understandmyself at all and really,
through Reiki and meditation andsound, I have come to
understand a lot more aboutmyself.
You know, I've had manydifferent purposes so far in my
(34:52):
42 years.
I've had many differentexistences as well.
Lunden Souza (35:07):
Well, but this one I feel like is like the best
shift for like a higher good.
I feel like I'm like sweaty andhave goosebumps from listening
to your story and how freakingincredible that is of literally
a street you walk past all thetime.
Meditation was something thatwas always going to find you,
that you were going to find, andthen boom right outside.
(35:28):
A place you pass all the timeis meditate and that's where
you're supposed to be.
And I got a chance to meditatewith you on Thanksgiving.
You hosted a virtual meditationfor those in our NABA community
and I had sent some texts topeople like, hey, come in, and
if you're not doing anythingthis morning and you have some
time, and I just, oh, I enjoyedit so much and it was so
(35:51):
beautiful and your voice is likelike it's so great and it's so
interesting to hear that journeyof where you've been and where
you are now and being able toexperience you now, as you also
probably are.
I'm grateful for all thoseversions and all the things that
you needed to go through inorder to be exactly where you're
(36:14):
at now.
Do you still feel like a burden?
Do you have that voice?
That's still.
I'm sure the volume is a littlebit turned down on it compared
to maybe before, but likethere's somebody listening who
feels like a burden too, I canguarantee it.
Jenn Reno (36:31):
So like what's that, like you know I.
So my parents were divorced andmy life with my dad was like
amazing.
He was.
He's been sober since I was twoyears old, very emotionally
intelligent man, um, and youknow he provided in ways that I
(36:58):
could.
You know I could do gymnastics,I could compete in snowboarding
and travel and, you know, dothese things and not be scared
to go home at night.
And then with my mom it waslike food stamps, cops, being in
a couple drunk drivingaccidents with her where the
cars were totaled, and beingscared walking down the road off
(37:21):
the bus with my brother everyday, not knowing what we're
going to come home to.
And so when I made the decisionat 10 and I moved and lived with
my dad permanently in JacksonHole, I didn't feel like I
should complain because my lifethen and there was great and I
was really well taken care of.
But, um, you know, I was likewho am I to complain?
(37:45):
Like I have I'm okay and I feellike I still kind of carry that
sometimes and, um, of beinglike a white woman who has
access to healthcare.
You know, when I have friendswho live in other um, in other
(38:06):
States that maybe don't havelike all the holistic healing
I've been able to, you know,whether it's acupuncture or like
the opportunity to microdoseand do these things, it's like
it's like it's.
It's a weird dichotomy Like Ifeel like a burden but I'm like,
oh God, I'm so lucky though,like I'm so blessed.
(38:29):
Um, and it's been a lot for myfamily, it's been a lot for my
dad.
You know I all those unresolvedchildhood traumas caught up with
me.
When I was 20, I had to go torehab for anorexia and you know
(38:51):
that was scary.
I was put in Stanfordcardiology department with fear
of heart failure.
You know there's a lot ofstress.
And then I didn't finisheverything there I should have,
and then, you know I didn't.
I really kept pushing thosethings that I grew up with in
(39:14):
and I never wanted to speakbadly about my mom either,
because I felt really sad forher.
And the older I got and startedto understand mental illness
more, which I, you know, when Iwas six and seven, had no idea
what was going on, other than Iwas like incredibly scared all
the time, or like had the bestmom in the world, like it was
(39:34):
back and forth.
But you know, I carried all ofthat stuff, then into drugs and
alcohol and, um, yeah, I really,um, you know I overdosed, I
tried to kill myself.
I, I put my family through a lotand then that stuff on top of
(39:58):
all the surgeries, the calls hey, we need family members to be
here to make decisions whileyour daughter's unconscious, um,
before we do this next surgeryfor a brain.
You know, it's been a lot, andso, while my dad has never, ever
once made me feel guilty, hewould probably like me to
complain more.
Um, yeah, it's, I know that I'mworthy of having help and um,
(40:34):
but yeah, it's, it's hard.
Often, eric needs to kind oflike step in and be like, what
can, what do you need?
You know, um, and that's, youknow.
That's something that I need tocontinue to work on and is in
my communication, and you know,to be a better version of myself
is asking for help rather thanum, or complaining.
(40:57):
Even you know, um, I know I doall the things to try to feel my
best, and so if I weren't doinganything to feel better and
then complaining on top of thatlike there's nothing, I hate
more than when people do that.
Lunden Souza (41:14):
Do nothing and complain about everything.
Jenn Reno (41:16):
Yeah, yeah, that's like something I have to work on
of my tolerance, because I,because I'm just like the, I'll
try anything help me.
Like how I was with drugs,basically Right, like, if one is
good, 10 or better.
Like I'm like that with withwellness.
I'm like Ooh, what is it?
Tell me more.
(41:37):
What does it feel like?
Yeah, like a healthier version,to feel seen and heard if she's
(42:00):
having feelings or if she hurtherself and if she needs help.
Lunden Souza (42:06):
I want her to feel safe in asking for help when
she needs it and that it's not aburden, and so you know I need
to lead by example in that, yeah, be the model for her and being
someone, yeah, who grew up with, yeah, a dad who was a coach,
where it was like quit yourcrying, find a way, suck it up.
(42:29):
I have a great relationshipwith my dad.
I love him.
We have so much fun togetherand that was the nature of how I
grew up.
I often will joke with him andbe like, yeah, I'm not a, I know
I wasn't a 16 year old baseballplayer that needed, you know, a
little pump up to get up to batand serve.
You know, I was like a littlegirl, you know.
(42:50):
And one of my favorite videosever that you've sent me because
sometimes Jenn will send mevideos of Harper, little
messages there was one where shewas laying on the ground and
you had crystals on her and shewas breathing and you could just
tell like you know, that's hernormal, like that's just like
(43:12):
what you do and she knows how toconnect with her breath and you
get to have those fun moments.
But I remember watching thatvideo so many times.
In fact, I hope I still have itI probably do in our scroll
history.
But you said she's four, right,and how are you now?
I know you said before.
You're like I wonder what mylife would be like if I had
(43:34):
meditation at that age.
Well, obviously you're nowbreaking that pattern and
providing that for Harper, whichis so beautiful and that's one
of my favorite videos of herever.
I was just like, oh my gosh.
Like what a lucky girl, what alucky child to choose you as a
mom, you know.
And so like, what's thatdialogue like with a
(43:55):
four-year-old of what it's liketo connect with your breath?
Also, like, does she see mommyin pain and have questions about
those things?
Like what's the conversationwith your child, with Harper?
Jenn Reno (44:08):
like so she, since having her, I've had one spine
surgery about a year and a halfago, and so what happens is my
spine dislocates, so my neckdislocates, and then I like
rupture discs and do things, andso it happened very suddenly
(44:29):
and for the couple months afterthat I was in bed.
I couldn't take her to the park, I couldn't do anything with
her, and then I had surgery andthen I wasn't allowed to pick
her up for I think eight weeks,maybe three months, again just
in bed, couldn't be anywherewith her.
But she was so sweet and shestill is, because my neck is
(44:49):
very painful these days and justsomething I'm, you know, kind
of dealing with again.
But she'll be like, if sheasked me to pick her up, I'll
hold her and then she cups thefront and the back of my neck
like my neck brace does.
And she's like, if I, if sheasked me to pick her up, I'll
hold her, and then she cups thefront and the back of my neck
like my neck brace does, andshe's like I'll hold your neck
for you, mama.
Or sometimes, when she wantsalone time with with her dad,
(45:12):
she'll be like mommy, why don'tyou go get an ice pack and go
rest your neck upstairs.
It's kind of like a a beat itbut your ice pack and go rest.
So she's very, um, she's veryaware, she's very emotional, um,
and like kisses where I'm hurt.
(45:32):
She'll kiss my hip a lot orlike cradle it, um, and so you
know, my mom had really badchronic pain too and she could
have easily.
So my mom's passed, my mompassed away 10 years ago but, um
, you know, I remember beingreally afraid of her pain,
(45:53):
really afraid.
And, um, I don't, I don't wantHarper to be afraid of mine, I
don't, I don't want Harper to beafraid of mine and you know I
try to talk about the thingsthat we do to help ourselves and
you know, when it comes tomeditation, really so I was four
(46:16):
months pregnant when COVIDstarted and all my classes that
I taught all over Los Angelesbecame virtual.
I had tons of virtual Reikiclients and so, with her in my
belly, I was doing so muchenergy healing and so much
breathing and mantra meditationbecame like my thing, which I
did throughout my labor as well,and it kind of just like we
(46:41):
didn't even really talk about it.
She just I always had my soundballs out and all my crystals
and just open like let her playwith them.
You know, like I came to termswith things were going to break,
but I want her to have thatcuriosity and wonder and have
access to them, um, and playwith them.
And so, yeah, I don't, I don'teven know the belly breath, Like
(47:06):
she was so young right there Ithink she was two and she take
in that video.
She's taking a few deep breaths,has crystals all on her chakras
and she says, mama breath and Igo you want me to take a deep
breath?
And she goes, yeah, and so thenI take a deep breath with her,
um, and you know, when I dropher off at school she's like I
(47:29):
hope you have a great meditation.
I, I go teach meditation acouple of days a week and I
think she thinks I'm meditatinglike the whole time.
She's gone.
Um, I'll pick her up fromschool.
How was your meditation mama?
Did you teach the grownups?
And so, you know, I love that,it makes me, it makes me happy.
I love that she wants to playthe sound bowls and she learned
(47:52):
how to om really young and she,we love to om together.
So you know, I just want her toexplore any and all of it.
Um, I, you know I wasn't raisedwith any religion.
I was raised with on star Wars,um, the force.
(48:15):
My dad would be like whateveryou need is within you, like the
force, like in star Wars, andso that's like literally what we
grew up with and like I wanther to know that, like whatever
she needs, it's, she has it orwill be there to help support
her in that.
But really, for me to likemeditation is my prayer.
(48:38):
Um, meditation is my connectionto whatever it is Like.
I don't, I don't know, I don'tbelieve in God, but I believe in
something much bigger andgreater than myself and I know I
feel so much more connected tothat through meditation.
You know, like when I'm out ona hike or under the Tetons, or
(49:02):
even just out on a walk on thetrails here with my dog, it's
like I just feel something somagical and present and my
practice keeps me in touch withthat.
Lunden Souza (49:17):
When you said about Harper, you're like I
don't want her to be afraid ofmy pain.
How do you want Harper to feelabout her pain?
Jenn Reno (49:29):
Um, I don't want to say inviting, but like, well, it
depends on what kind of pain,you know, because it's like on
what kind of pain you know,because it's like if it's
heartbreak, you know, when she'sa little bit old or a lot older
, and you know like I want herto feel everything, even if it's
(49:54):
really hard to witness.
Because, you know, I rememberonce I broke a boyfriend's heart
.
I made a really big mistake.
It was very selfish, and Icalled my dad crying and he said
I'm so glad you finally fuckedup.
And I've always kept thosewords with me because when I
(50:17):
lived with my dad I was such aperfectionist and wanting to
make everybody happy and, um,you know, while I was like
experimenting with drugs andalcohol at a very young age, I
wasn't the kid who was likeoutwardly rebelling, it was like
quiet, but I was still, youknow, a good like I did horrible
in school, but I was a verynice student.
Lunden Souza (50:39):
You know like.
Jenn Reno (50:40):
I was a nice friend.
Yeah, you know, I did well ingymnastics, I did well in
snowboarding, like I kept theact up, like I always had this
facade, um and so, like thosewords, I'm so glad you finally
fucked up.
It's like I want Harper to knowthat, no matter what she's
(51:03):
always loved, um, whatever youknow she does, whatever mistakes
she makes, like she's loved andwhatever pain she's having, um,
you know she'll be held andsupported.
And you know always, we alwaysneed that reminder, even though
we're like oh, when people arelike, it gets better.
(51:23):
I promise You're like yeah,yeah, I have this friend.
Lunden Souza (51:28):
when you said that , it just reminded me a really
close friend of mine, jana, andshe's in her sixties and we've
been, yeah, really close for awhile.
But I remember when I movedback to America from Austria and
then spent a lot of time inSouthern California, which is
where she lives.
(51:48):
I remember just expressingthings to her that were hard and
uncomfortable and that were astruggle for me, and expressing
emotions.
And she has a story not thesame as yours but still as much
of like are you fucking kiddingme?
That type of past and thingsgoing on.
(52:09):
And I remember when I wouldexpress some of these things to
her, she'd be like you're doingsuch a great job and I'm so
excited for you.
I'm just so excited for you.
And I remember being pissed whenshe would say that I'd be like
what do you mean?
You're excited for me.
This sucks right now, but what Inow know is on the other side
of that pain, on the other sideof that obstacle or that hard
(52:33):
moment or that heartbreak, onthe other side of the fuck up,
like your dad said, is so muchmagic and is so much learning
and growth and everything thatyou need to keep evolving and
keep growing and keep leaninginto that future version of
yourself, that higher version ofyourself.
But I remember when she wouldsay that in the moment, like you
(52:57):
said, when people are like, oh,it's going to get better,
you're like, all right, cool,thanks for the feedback, see you
later, go on.
But she would do that to me too.
There was such excitement andthis joy in her eyes, knowing
that I was struggling andsuffering, and not because she
wanted me to be there, but sheknew what was on the other side
(53:19):
of that and she had been throughso much and gotten on the other
side of that too.
But when you said that, itreminded me of that.
So I'm really grateful for Janaand all the encouragement and
wonder and excitement that shehad while I was going through a
really hard time, a really hardtime.
Jenn Reno (53:40):
I really like Brene Brown's talks on shame you know
and love her, something I'mcontinually experiencing, I
think, even on your posts likeyou're like feeling a little
shameful of like being in thismess and I'm like, hey, I'm here
too with you, Like, and Ineeded you to write what you did
(54:00):
to also feel okay.
And I remember when I got clean, I often spoke at meetings all
over LA and I had just found outthat day that I did something
like really I was so disgustedwith in my using that when I was
(54:22):
in a blackout before I ended upin rehab, that when I was in a
blackout before I ended up inrehab and I was so disgusted and
ashamed and I got up and Ispoke about it in front of 150
people.
And afterwards this youngergirl cause I was like 28, 29,
this younger girl came up to meand just started crying and
(54:44):
she's like I've never toldanybody, but I did the same
thing and I needed this tonightand it was like, oh, like that
was my first real like you know,and with feeling alone, in
chronic, in moments, withchronic pain.
It's like, while there'snothing you can really do for
Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, the bestthing I have found is community
(55:06):
.
So I'm a part of this likeFacebook group, right, and I've
met some really wonderful,amazing friends who have it and
we support each other or wecommiserate, you know, or offer
our experiences and what hashelped us through some period or
another.
And now it's like I feel solucky that I found these
practices to help with my painbecause, because I am that
(55:31):
person that's like, okay, I'll Imean, I wasn't this way of
meditation, obviously, butbefore that, anything I'll try,
right, Like whether it'sacupuncture or different herbs
or just whatever, give it to me,or just whatever give it to me.
I can help other people who aregoing through what I am, you
(55:55):
know.
So, like a lot of my privateclients are people with chronic
and acute pain and illness andthat feels like to help others
find relief from something thatcan feel like it's stealing your
life.
It's your higher power.
Like for years, pain was myhigher power.
I talked about this on KristenBirdwell's podcast, that I even
did the 12 steps once around,pain being my higher power.
(56:17):
And you know, to see peoplelike release it, lose that fear
is just like it's the best work.
I love my job.
I can't believe I get to dothis and, you know, sometimes
(56:39):
it's the simplest suggestionstoo.
I had a girl in my meditationclass the other day and she was
like, oh my God, I'm spinningout.
I really need this.
Thank you so much.
She kept thanking me before iteven started.
I'm like no, no, it's here.
I'm like I'm glad you're here.
And then I was like okay, justso you know, you can lay down,
you can move around during thepractice, like whatever you need
to do.
And she's like I can.
(57:09):
And I said, yeah, this is yourtime to nourish your body, so do
what you need for it.
You know like if there's otherpeople in the class, you have to
be mindful of noise, but if youneed to shift into comfort, do
that.
And she was like that justchanged my life and it's like
such a small to me.
But I didn't know that either,because I have pain, Like I've
been squirming around, sittinghere, talking to you while I'm
(57:30):
teaching.
I am like stretching my hip outand moving because I can't sit
there.
And when I meditate, if I don'tmake it my own practice and
like my teacher, David G, alwayssays, comfort is queen I'm
going to focus on my throbbinghip or my lower back pain.
I'm not going to pay attentionto where I'm supposed to be
guided to, and so you know, justbeing able to offer such small
(57:56):
solutions to like changesomebody's view on meditation,
and how simple it can be, isgreat.
I love it Like it's like-.
Lunden Souza (58:08):
The permission slip.
You're like with you tellingyour story.
In that instance where thatgirl came to you, it was like
her permission slip to thenshare hers, right, and then I
think maybe people listening too.
It's like you think you go to ameditation class or whatever
and you can't move and you justhave to sit there and you know
and like, then you get movearound, do what feels good for
(58:30):
your body, like this is for you.
It's not about doing it right,it's about doing it and showing
up.
Jenn Reno (58:37):
Um, yeah, making that time like okay, if you're going
to make the effort to show uphere, make it worthwhile.
Lunden Souza (58:47):
Make it what you want it to be.
Jenn Reno (58:48):
Yeah, Don't be like that meditation was awful
because I couldn't move.
My body was hurting so bad.
That was an awful meditation.
It's like I don't want thatexperience for anybody.
Lunden Souza (59:00):
Yeah, yeah.
One last thing, because I knowthere's some.
I always tell myself if oneperson is impacted by this
episode, that's what we're doingLike, that's why we're here,
because that one person couldhave been you or me or anyone.
And so if somebody's listeningthat does have chronic pain,
what would be like one piece ofadvice or one thing that you
(59:24):
would suggest that they leaninto or discover?
Would it be meditation?
What would that next best stepfor the person listening?
Thinking okay, and where do Istart?
Jenn Reno (59:37):
The first, really most important thing is that you
are your own best advocate,like if you with all your heart
and gut, know something is wrongand feels off, continue
fighting for finding an answerand a solution.
Um, and if that means bringingsomebody with you to support you
(59:59):
and doctor's appointments too,which is something I I'd bring
my dad as much as I could Alwaysyeah, keep fighting for
yourself.
Like, use your voice.
It's your body, you know itbest and you know, through that,
finding a doctor that listensto you.
And then I really suggest, yes,meditation and listening to
(01:00:21):
guided meditations to start.
I think guided meditations andthey can be five minutes long.
You know like you got to startsomewhere and five minutes can
like change your life.
And you know, sometimes I justdo like the 16 second breath or
a box breath right A few timesand I'm like, okay, I feel
better than I did before that.
(01:00:42):
So you know there's so manygreat meditation apps out there.
Some of them are free.
You can type in pain in thesearch box or whatever you're
going through illness, maybeit's loss, you know a different
kind of pain and, um, find ameditation or a teacher whose
voice really resonates with you.
(01:01:03):
Don't stop after the first one.
If you don't like that voice,find somebody else, because
there's a teacher for everybody.
Lunden Souza (01:01:11):
Um, if you want to meditate with me that, was
going to be my next question howdo they meditate with you?
What apps?
Jenn Reno (01:01:30):
how do they connect with you?
I'm on the unplug meditationapp and, um, I have four
meditations for pain.
I think they're anywhere fromlike eight to 16 minutes long,
so none of them are extremelylong.
You can lay down in your bed,put pillows everywhere, get as
comfortable as you want and, um,yeah, just learn to breathe
into your body, you know.
Breathe all the way down intoyour belly, fill it.
(01:01:53):
Learn to guide your breath, justlike I like to imagine my
breath is swirling golden lightlike stardust spinning through
my body and I just breathe itinto different body parts where
I'm hurting, and then I imaginethat my exhale is carrying it
away, and I do that with, likeyou know, a thought that I don't
(01:02:16):
like, or like I was having alot of judgment recently and I
didn't like that part of me andit felt really bad and yucky,
and so I was really trying toexhale and let go of judgment.
You know things that aren'tserving us.
So connect to your breath.
That's all you need really islike the willingness to be quiet
(01:02:39):
for a little bit.
Nourish yourself and breatheinto wherever your body's
calling for it.
Lunden Souza (01:02:50):
Thank you for you, Jenn.
I love you so much and thisconversation I know has been
healing for somebody out therelistening.
It for sure has been for me.
I'll put all the links to howto connect with Jenn in the
description.
Check out her meditations inthe Unplug app.
(01:03:11):
Connect with her everywhere andI'll send you so you can put
that in there.
Jenn Reno (01:03:18):
I have a link for 30 free days on the Unplug app and
you don't have to put yourcredit card number in or
anything.
So you can just try those 30days and go from there.
Lunden Souza (01:03:28):
Perfect, we need that for sure.
Thank you guys for listeningand thank you, Jenn, and we'll
see you at the next episode.
Jenn Reno (01:03:37):
Thank you.
Lunden Souza (01:03:45):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
Self Love and Sweat, thepodcast.
If you enjoyed this episode orwere inspired by it or something
resonated with you, do me afavor and share this episode
with a friend, someone that youthink might enjoy this episode
as well.
That's the ultimate complimentand the best way to make this
(01:04:07):
podcast ripple out into theworld of others, and also you
can leave us a review up to fivestars wherever you're listening
to the podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you at the next
episode.
I appreciate you.
Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the
place where you'll get inspiredto live your life
unapologetically, embrace yourperfect imperfections and do
what sets your soul on fire.
I'm your host, Lunden Souza.
Hey, before we jump into thisepisode, I just want to make
(00:27):
sure that you get all the freethings possible, If you haven't
already.
You need to get your self-loveand sweat free monthly life
coaching calendar.
Honestly, the way to experiencedeep change in your life is by
doing small little things overtime, and so that's what you'll
(00:48):
find in this free calendar.
You can get it by going tolifelikelunden.
com/calendar.
Get yours for free and let'sget into today's episode
Welcome back to the podcast.
Today we have Jenn Reno that Iget to, that you guys have the
pleasure of listening to, but Ialso feel like as the host or
(01:11):
whatever that means of thispodcast.
I always get to have the honorof just connecting with some of
the most beautiful, amazingpeople ever, and I met Jenn kind
of recently, but I justimmediately, yeah, fell in love
with her and I just am soexcited to have a conversation
(01:31):
with you today, Jenn, Welcome tothe podcast.
Jenn Reno (01:34):
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
Lunden Souza (01:38):
One of the or how I kind of want to start.
This is a couple of weeks ago.
I posted up or I recorded anepisode about reflections on my
36th birthday and that episodewas really like a no plan plan,
I like to call it.
I just was like whatever, Ijust know I want to reflect and
I'm just going to press recordand go and I remember afterwards
(02:00):
thinking like, did that evenmake sense?
I don't even know if I saidanything clearly, cohesively,
whatever, and I don't reallygenerally go back and listen to
episodes, like I do sometimes,but it's more just like press
record, put it out there.
But I went back and listened andI was like, oh, actually I kind
of did make sense, like I kindof, you know, did kind of pull
(02:23):
it together, and you called andleft me a voicemail just sharing
about how the part that Imentioned about being messy and
being able to do what we dodespite the mess or while we're
in the mess and we can be messy,and and so Jenn called me and
(02:43):
left me a voicemail justaffirming my mess and it felt so
good and I felt so seen andheard and I just love you and
I'm so grateful that you agreedto be here on the podcast.
I'm so grateful that I met youand I'm so grateful for your
reflections that you also sharedwith me about your mess and
(03:06):
insecurities a little bit aroundthe mess and all of that.
So thank you for you.
Jenn Reno (03:10):
I mean, I just can't even tell you how much you've
helped my life so far and whatis it?
It hasn't been a long time thatI've known you, but it feels
like it's been years, just like,if it's communication, you know
, I did your course and itreally had me like the
self-proclaimed, like I've beenin therapy my whole life.
(03:32):
Person, you know, was like ohshoot, like I really need to
take some steps back and look atthe way I communicate.
And then, yeah, when you sharedabout, you know, the mess and
it's like we're all in and outof that mess and that's really
what we have to do.
(03:54):
And it feels like in the line ofwork that we're both in, you
know, like wellness, self-help,raising your vibration.
It's like you feel like youshould always be up here and
just succeeding and thriving andnever making mistakes.
And it's not possible, likeit's not possible and it's
(04:22):
really, you know, that's likewhere the growth happens right
Is when we allow ourselves to bein that mess kind of sort the
mess like okay, this is workingfor me, this is working, this is
not working for me.
And while I feel like it's safeand I need to hold on to it, I
need to let it go because it'snot helping.
(04:43):
So sorting through that messand having your soul, family
around you to support in thattime is so important.
And then you come out andyou're like, oh, I'm back, I'm
back.
Lunden Souza (04:55):
Yeah, sorting through the mess.
That's what I was thinking whenyou were talking and then you
said it Sorting through the mess, being able to sit in it,
understand it a little bit, butchoosing not to stay there.
Tell us a little bit more aboutyou and what you do and who you
are in this world.
Jenn Reno (05:17):
I mean, it's like, where do you even start?
So much of who I am is becauseof where I grew up.
I grew up in what I believe isone of the most beautiful places
in the world Jackson Hole,wyoming and I'm like a nature
nerd from the get-go.
(05:39):
Being outside in nature hasalways been very important to me
and has been a lot of mypurpose in my life of whether
it's purpose and what brought mehappiness was camping and
snowboarding and climbing andfly fishing, growing up on the
river, um, to going to collegefor conservation, biology and
(06:01):
wanting to fight to save thesebeautiful places and um, so I
always go back to like man, likegrowing up there really
imprinted so much of who I amtoday, um, and every time I go
back there it's just like like abig, like.
This is my home home, um, I amnow a mama, I have a
(06:28):
four-year-old, I am a meditationteacher, a light worker, sound
healer, um, and really havefound all of these things
because of my own struggles andum.
You know we talked about thelike turning pain into purpose,
(06:48):
and um, I never meant to becomea teacher of any of this.
I really was just trying tofind relief within my own
existence and then became ateacher and a healer, and, um, I
just feel like what I found,this like relief and this magic
(07:10):
and, um, the people who areattracted to this, this world.
It saved my life and I want toshare it with anybody who wants
to make a change in their life,you know, whether it's just with
work or a relationship, orreally deep, deep, deep soul
searching.
Um, I know it's like awellspring of um of hope and
(07:34):
relief to get into this worldand it makes me a better mom, a
better partner, a better friend.
Um, and I'm constantly learningbecause I'm surrounded with
people like you, um, and our,our NABA family.
Um, you know so manyperspectives.
(07:54):
It's like when you think youknow exactly who you are or what
you want, um, you hearsomething out of somebody else's
mouth that maybe you've heardbefore, but it just wasn't the
right person, and you're like,oh wait, I want that too.
That sounds like a really good,beautiful thing to add to my
life and I want to learn allabout it.
(08:16):
So I feel like I'm constantly astudent.
Um, I want to.
I want to keep evolving andjust kind of showing up as much
as I can, right, because, likewe said, we have these periods
(08:36):
in our life and I've had quite alife of health issues with a
genetic disorder calledEhlers-Danlos syndrome, had over
20 surgeries, I have beenbrought back from the other side
, I have been in hospital bedsfor many months of my life.
(08:58):
I have had brain leaks, allthese things and, um, it's like
the people who have come into mylife because of all of these,
what you know, some of them werepretty horrific experiences.
Like I'm, I can't believe howlucky I am that I have found the
people I did and I wouldn'thave if it weren't for this
(09:21):
disease, this disease, thisdisorder, and so, you know,
while I was really just tryingto find my way out of chronic
pain and all these things, Ifound a lot of magic and I feel
like that's a lot of information.
Lunden Souza (09:41):
But yeah, you said showing up and wanting to
continue to show up and you justso, like casually, it rolls off
the tongue like 20 surgeries, Iguess a near death experience
or maybe you did die, I'm notsure, I don't know that part of
your story and being in chronicpain and still showing up, how
(10:03):
does one do that?
How do you wake up and be a momto your beautiful daughter, who
I love?
I haven't met her in person yet, but I call her my bestie
because I know that the second Iget to meet her we're going to
be besties for life.
It's already written.
But how do you show up, beingsomeone who experiences chronic
(10:24):
pain and still see that magic?
Jenn Reno (10:27):
Well, there's been many seasons in my life where I
couldn't show up, like literallycouldn't walk to go to the
bathroom, would have to armycrawl.
I couldn't show up at all.
And it's been a long time since.
Since I started meditatingactually is when, like,
(10:50):
everything shifted for me,because I really was living in
constant fear of, like, whatsurgery was going to be next.
Um, there's a lot of informationthat's coming out about
Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, so, like, if you haven't heard of it yet
, you will start to meet peopleor read about it in the news.
But for a long time it was justkind of like doctors wouldn't
(11:12):
listen to me.
I didn't get diagnosed until Iwas in my 30s, you know.
So it was a lot of like, oh,you're just too active or you
need to work out more, and I'mlike, I'm a personal trainer,
like I live in the gym, um, youknow, not feeling heard for a
really long time and just beingtold, um, that it wasn't that
(11:33):
bad, even though I neededsurgeries and they were always
having to operate, um, and so Ijust like shut down for a long,
long time, and then I wouldn'teven go to the doctor for pretty
serious things, and by the timeI would go, they'd be like, why
didn't you come sooner?
And it's like, well, becauseevery time I come, you basically
tell me nothing's wrong with me, um, or that it's like a
(11:56):
trending thing to have, where,when I all I wanted was a
diagnosis, so I could likefigure out how to, so I could
like figure out how to, how tolive better, and so, yeah,
there's a lot of times where Ijust really was in a dark place.
I had suicidal ideations, withchronic pain, I felt very
(12:20):
isolated and alone for so longand I've been in those periods,
off and on, where it's like Ifeel so guilty because I am,
like you know, a white womanwith a lot of privilege and
access to see whoever I wantalmost you know and I have great
friends and family and anawesome partner.
(12:42):
But I didn't ever want to be aburden, and that really also
stems from, like childhood stuffmy mom where basic needs were
often a burden, and I never wantto be that person.
I want to be the person showingup and like helping you and
then, seriously, within fourdays of starting meditation like
(13:05):
an actual practice of like onein the morning, one in the
afternoon bookends on the fourthday of that, my whole life
changed and it's I've never goneback.
So, like, while I wake up and Ihave, you know, a few weeks ago
I was in bed because my lowerback is starting to hurt again
and my hip and I get Harper outthe door Like there's things I
(13:26):
have to do and that need to getdone, but then I come and lay in
bed, you know, for six hoursand or go sit in my sauna or
whatever it is that I need to do.
But really, since meditation,um, I've never gotten back to
that place of such complete fear.
(13:46):
I'm more in a like, okay, ifsomething hurts and I might need
another surgery, I'm like, okay, great, I'm going to do
everything I can before thatsurgery to prepare for it.
I always train for surgeries,body allowing, like I did when I
was a competitive snowboarder.
I want to be as strong as I can.
I need my body to be, you know,detoxed and clean, um, and a
(14:11):
lot of meditation and workaround that and going into
surgery with, um, you know,nervous system down and um, I
just know that I am taken careof and as long as I have my
breath, I'm okay.
But you know, there are dayswhen I want to set my hair on
(14:31):
fire when I'm trying to parent atoddler, but I'm breaking that
generational trauma betweenmothers and daughters, like I'm
not going to make my daughterfeel like a burden, because
she's four years old and is akiddo and has her needs, like
she needs me, and so it's myresponsibility to do everything
(14:55):
I can, um, to not snap, becauseI was getting there at one point
and I immediately was like,okay, I need to go back to
therapy.
I started microdosing.
Um, you know, again, this islike a very first world thing
where I had a friend who gave mereally good advice.
(15:17):
She was a client, turned one ofmy best friends.
Now, if, like, there wasanything that was causing stress
between Eric and I that moneycould fix, do it.
And if you have it and that wasfor me, calling a babysitter
more often and taking time to gocold plunge and sauna and, you
know, self-care.
(15:37):
So, while life with chronicpain and parenting like don't
really go hand in hand together,it's my responsibility to take
care of myself and just like itis, like, even if before I had
Harper, you know to be a betterparent or a better, um, uh,
(16:02):
partner, a better friend.
You know, like to do as much asI can, and sometimes the best
that I could do is lay in bedand just maybe text a friend,
and sometimes also askingfriends for help, because
friends like to help, you know.
Lunden Souza (16:17):
Yeah, so yeah, meditation.
I love what you said about thatfourth session Not that for
everybody, it's that but I'malso thinking, too, like you're
going to all these doctors.
They're discovering more aboutyour diagnosis and all those
things.
(16:38):
I wasn't at these doctor'sappointments with you, but I'm
probably certain that theyweren't prescribing meditation
and breath right.
But how did you discover thispractice and these bookends?
Like, what were you actuallydoing?
I mean, I know I meditate, Iknow what that is, but for those
(16:58):
listening, sometimes people arelike, well, I can't quiet my
mind or I can't sit there.
Sometimes people are like, well, I can't quiet my mind or I
can't sit there.
And how do you meditate?
What did those bookends looklike?
What were you doing?
Jenn Reno (17:11):
Yeah, no, no doctors were giving me any advice on
what to do.
There is prescribingmedications and things like that
.
But, um, my neurosurgeonactually I had my first spine
surgery about 12 years ago andwithin that spine surgery I got
(17:37):
a brain leak and then had to bein the hospital and was so
drugged up I was like in like adrug induced coma, breathing on
my own, but remember nothing,because they had to get a team
of doctors, of neurosurgeonstogether to figure out how to
operate on this brain leak thatI had.
They didn't know where it waslocated.
They're calling my family.
(17:59):
Somebody needs to get out toCalifornia.
And when I woke up from thesurgery I can't remember if it
was my neurosurgeon or one ofthe doctors saying you might
find yourself having a reallyhard time after this surgery
because, while you don'tremember any of what happened
(18:19):
this last week, your body does.
And I didn't know what theymeant.
And I was also just two yearsclean too.
So, like all my other surgeries, I would drink and do drugs
after because painkillers mademe so sick and I was also just a
drug addict, so there was that.
But, um, so this was also myfirst surgery clean, so I didn't
(18:41):
have any of those things.
It was in a neck brace whichfelt very scary, and all of a
sudden I started having panicattacks and like
hyperventilating, and I wouldjust be on a walk with my dog
and I would be like a mess onthe side of the road and my
neurosurgeon was like, do youpaint?
And I was like no, I don'treally know how.
(19:02):
And he goes go get an easel,easel and some paint.
And like let's start tappinginto that part of the brain when
you go into these moments orbefore that happens.
And so I started painting a lotand loving that and finding
like some calm in that.
And then I needed a secondsurgery not long after that on
my spine and I was in so muchpain and I was so angry and
(19:25):
frustrated and before that I hadhad five shoulder
reconstructions, um, a full hipreconstruction in between the
two spine surgeries, three kneesurgeries, a full ankle surgery,
appendectomy Like I had had allthese joints operated on.
But I didn't really understandthe spine and it's like that,
(19:47):
how spine pain really affectsyour emotional stability.
So I'm in my neurosurgeon'soffice and I'm crying and I'm
cussing and he's like looking atthe x-ray and he's like I see
what's wrong.
Your neck isn't broken, You'renot going to die.
You do need surgery, but I willnot operate on you.
(20:08):
When you are this heightened,your surgery, your recovery will
be so much harder.
And he told me I needed to seethe pain.
Psychologist, um, which in mymind was again somebody saying
it's not that bad, this painisn't real.
Like go see a shrink and youneed to meditate.
(20:29):
And I told him to fuck off.
I slammed the door, said fuckyou, and I went back with my
tail between my legs and agreedto see the pain psychologist and
didn't meditate for like 12years later, six years later,
seven years later I guess Istill talk to that pain
(20:49):
psychologist to this day Um, andit really was.
Um.
After five more spine surgeriesthroughout the years, I really
injured my neck really horriblyand was given the gift of
desperation.
Basically, um, I had startedmeditating a little bit with the
(21:13):
insight timer and I had a spinesurgery and then I got another
brain leak.
This one wasn't as bad, so Iwas unconscious, but I had to
lay completely flat in thehospital for a week before the
next surgery.
I typed in pain and the topics,for you can type in whatever
you're going through on Insightand it will fill your feed with
(21:34):
different meditations or Dharmatalks and things that go along
with that.
And this teacher, david G,popped up and he had a
meditation on the body's abilityto heal and repair itself.
I listened to that probablythousands of times in the
following months, like rightbefore surgery that morning,
immediately after and for themonths following probably three
(21:58):
times a day, and the mantras,just everything resonated so
much with me.
But I was still kind of justcrisis meditating right Cause I
was in so much pain and I wasmiserable but, like I was
desperate and then I found I wasscrolling on Instagram months
later cause I wasn't able towork for over a year after that
surgery.
That um, a studio in LosAngeles, was doing a teacher
(22:22):
training with David G, and I hadbeen attending some live
meditations to in Venice.
But again it was just like, oh,I'm free tonight, I'll go to
one, but not establishing like areal practice.
And I was like you know, thiscould be really good for me to a
like, I just wanted to learnmore about meditation, like what
(22:44):
it really was, and all thedifferent techniques and styles
and things, um, and to deepen mypractice.
And so I did this teachertraining with David G and um.
It was six weeks, you know,like 200 hours, and we had to
meditate twice a day, every day,the entire time, and we did it
through the unplug meditationapp, which I'm now on with
(23:07):
healing meditations.
Every meditation we listened towas a different teacher, a
different style.
You know different techniques.
You find your people with thevoice you like, or you know
guided visualizations, mantrameditations, all these different
things.
So you are experiencing thewhole spectrum of meditation,
(23:28):
probably outside of TM and um.
On the fourth day I realized Ihadn't taken a painkiller in
three days, hadn't even thoughtabout them.
Um, I was sitting at a coffeeshop, studying in Venice, and I
was like whoa, like it blew mymind because I was just
(23:50):
recovering from this huge spinesurgery.
I was still in a lot of pain.
I took those things, you know,a couple of times a day.
I checked in with my body and Iwas like I hurt but I could
just be with it and that's likehow I am now.
It's like pain comes but I'mnot afraid of it anymore either,
(24:11):
like I'm, I'm not afraid of it.
I'm not going to say that Idon't cry and get angry, that I
you know it's there sometimes orholding me back from doing
something I want, but I'm notafraid of it like I used to be.
And I was also just afraid ofthe world, like when, you, you
know, I grew up in a really notgreat home with my mom when I
(24:38):
was little.
She was a lovely person,beautiful, but she was very sick
and um, a lot of childhoodabuse and, um, you know that
followed into my choices as anadult, in relationships too, of
like that pretty textbook.
I engaged to a drink todayalcoholic, who was abusive, just
(24:59):
like my mother, you know.
Um, so I was afraid of theworld and I didn't know how to
make very good decisions and Iwas also just a person who felt
safe.
Right, we're talking about thatmess, we're sorting through
where you're like I should getrid of this.
But I feel safe to keep itsafer with.
(25:20):
The extremes of things arereally good or really bad.
But if things are just likeright here and mellow and like
floating along, that was reallyuncomfortable for me and I would
do things to sabotage that.
Whether it was a relationshipor maybe a job usually
relationships If somebody waslike actually really good for me
(25:42):
and I was like Ooh, can't havethat, you know, like too safe
too good.
Yep.
So once I with meditation, youknow, on that, after that fourth
day, it was, like you know,they say it's not always what
happens in the meditation, butwhat happens outside of it.
(26:04):
Right, like, what is your worldlike afterwards?
And it really was like it waslike a movie.
I feel like all of a sudden Icould just like walk around like
the streets and I'd be like, oh, the flowers and like bluebirds
and things you know, and myanxiety changed.
I used to carry around Klonopinor Xanax as well, just in case,
(26:29):
like I always knew it was by meif I needed it.
And it's like, all of a sudden,my anxiety.
I tell this to a lot of clientsnow because it really helped me
and I do this with my pain aswell.
So when COVID started, I got alot more clients right, virtual
(26:53):
meditation clients all over theworld, and and it was like
teaching them to talk to theiranxiety, like you would a little
kid right, when a little kidfalls and scrape their knees,
you're like, oh, that hurts,doesn't it?
Yeah, you fell and you scrapedit and that's a hard thing to
(27:14):
fall on and, yeah, that doeshurt.
You know, like for me, I'm notgoing to be like, oh, it's not
that bad, get up, it's like okay, let's talk that bad, get up,
you know.
It's like okay, let's talkabout what happened and look at
where we are and then you know,kind of take care of it and then
move on from there.
So with anxiety, I could tellpeople during the pandemic of
(27:35):
like, well, of course you haveanxiety Like we've.
None of us have lived through apandemic, none of us have lived
through a pandemic.
This is new.
Like you should have anxietyand it's okay, it's there, and
so, while some people it took alot longer than others to kind
of adopt that practice I do thatwith, I really like rarely get
(27:58):
anxiety anymore, but if my neckis hurting in the middle of the
night, I'm like, yeah, your neckshould hurt you.
Even though you're a year and ahalf out of your last surgery,
you could still be healing.
You have a lot of titanium inthere.
That it's not normal.
Like this is a foreign objectin your body, like I just talked
to it, and it kind of like itdissipates, you know, Um.
(28:22):
And so whenever there'ssomething with you know anxiety
too, I'm like, yeah, you shouldfeel anxious.
Like you've never been a, amother to a toddler during, uh,
you know the state of where weare.
You know, um, you want toprotect her, and so it's just
weird, like it's wild, and it istruly what everybody said.
(28:46):
It was Right.
But I was like, no, I'm justlike an athlete, like I can't
meditate.
I don't meditate.
I wish I would have had it as achild.
I would love to know whatversion, what I would have been
like if I had a meditationpractice as a child.
(29:09):
Like what, what would I looklike as an adult, right?
Like what could I have savedmyself from you know?
Um, and that's like I, justeverybody I meet too, like when
they talk to me about what I doand they're like oh yeah, I
(29:30):
should probably meditate, but Ican't, and I'm like you can.
Lunden Souza (29:34):
You can, especially thinking about the
version of you that told thedoctor to fuck off and then,
years later, getting to thatfirst meditation.
Of course, your response now islike, oh, trust me, you can,
but let's get to that moment.
From fuck off, doctor, all theway leading up to that moment,
(29:54):
you decided to meditate for thefirst time.
What happened?
Did you just decide, okay, fuckit, I'm just going to try it.
What do I have to lose?
Jenn Reno (30:03):
Or like I think I'm trying to remember exactly why.
It was around a new year comingup and I told my partner.
I said my new year's resolutionwhich I don't really make
resolutions usually, but I waslike is going to be to meditate
and I'm like, and I'm serious, Ineed to like join a group so
(30:25):
I'm there with people and, likesome, have somewhat of like
accountability to be there and,um, because you know, even now,
like as much as I talk about Ilove meditation, there's often
where I'm like I'd rather justkind of sit on the couch and
watch a show right now beforeI'm from school, like I'd kind
(30:45):
of, you know, like I couldalways find 27 other things to
do before that, but I know I'mgoing to feel better after that,
rather than sitting, I mean,while I do love to sit on the
couch and watch Both and.
(31:12):
But so just literally 30 minutesafter I told him I wanted to
join a meditation group, we wereon a walk in Venice and they're
on a building.
On this white building, it saidmeditate in black, huge.
And I was like what the fuck isthat?
It was new, because we walkthat street all the time and I
run across the street and mushmy face up against the window of
whatever business this is.
They weren't open yet and theyhad literally just they were
just putting it all together.
(31:33):
And as soon as they opened, Iwent to my first meditation and
my teacher, peter Opperman he'sthis lovely man and it was a
future self meditation.
So for years doctors told melike you probably shouldn't even
try to carry a pregnancy,there's, your body's not gonna
allow it.
Um, and I always wanted to be amom and in this future self
(31:58):
meditation and I think also Ilike he, they told us like
really guided us on your breathand that you're supposed to have
thoughts and things like that,where years before, I thought
you had to be clear, free andclear of all thoughts, like I
thought I, you know, was justgoing to be thinking about
nothing and I never askedquestions too right, like I had
(32:21):
way too much ego to be.
Like, how do you meditate?
Like what is it even really?
And now I'm one people, I'mlike it's breathing, truly it's
breathing.
But I didn't know that.
And so, once I asked questionsand I found the right teacher,
I'm guided in this meditationand I meet my future self.
I have a kid on my hip.
(32:42):
Meditation, and I meet myfuture self.
I have a kid on my hip.
At the time I was in Ayurvedicmedical school.
I see all my Ayurvedic herbs inthe corner of my kitchen.
My thing was I always wanted ahouse with a lemon tree, which I
now have, and a daughter, andso at the end of the meditation
I was like, can I work with youprivately?
Like you're going to change mylife?
(33:02):
And so I started doing privatesessions with him a little bit,
not twice a day and he's the onewho told me about insight time
or like hey, I suggest you dothis, um, on your own.
And, um, I worked with him.
I was having a spine surgeryand I worked with him, like all
the days leading up to it and assoon as I got out of the
(33:23):
hospital, worked with him and,yeah, I just, but I still was
kind of in crisis meditationmode, but literally a sign in
the sky that said meditate.
You know, it was perfect.
And that place really, um, Iended up teaching there after I
(33:44):
got certified.
It's where I um really studiedReiki healing as well.
And, again, I never intended tobe a Reiki healer.
I just wanted to understand myexistence in the world, like how
I could exist more comfortablyin the world.
I didn't.
I was starting.
Once I stopped doing drugs andI got clean, I started to notice
(34:06):
how sensitive to other people Iam.
I mean, even, like you can see,like I blush really easily and
like when I'm in conversationsthat I'm so excited about, um,
I'd be around a crowd of peopleand I'd be shaking and I was
like, oh, this is why I diddrugs so much, like I couldn't
go to a concert without doingdrugs and numbing out, you know.
So I studied Reiki, um, just tohelp myself.
(34:30):
And to.
You know, I always thought itwas, something was wrong with me
.
Um, I just I didn't understandmyself at all and really,
through Reiki and meditation andsound, I have come to
understand a lot more aboutmyself.
You know, I've had manydifferent purposes so far in my
(34:52):
42 years.
I've had many differentexistences as well.
Lunden Souza (35:07):
Well, but this one I feel like is like the best
shift for like a higher good.
I feel like I'm like sweaty andhave goosebumps from listening
to your story and how freakingincredible that is of literally
a street you walk past all thetime.
Meditation was something thatwas always going to find you,
that you were going to find, andthen boom right outside.
(35:28):
A place you pass all the timeis meditate and that's where
you're supposed to be.
And I got a chance to meditatewith you on Thanksgiving.
You hosted a virtual meditationfor those in our NABA community
and I had sent some texts topeople like, hey, come in, and
if you're not doing anythingthis morning and you have some
time, and I just, oh, I enjoyedit so much and it was so
(35:51):
beautiful and your voice is likelike it's so great and it's so
interesting to hear that journeyof where you've been and where
you are now and being able toexperience you now, as you also
probably are.
I'm grateful for all thoseversions and all the things that
you needed to go through inorder to be exactly where you're
(36:14):
at now.
Do you still feel like a burden?
Do you have that voice?
That's still.
I'm sure the volume is a littlebit turned down on it compared
to maybe before, but likethere's somebody listening who
feels like a burden too, I canguarantee it.
Jenn Reno (36:31):
So like what's that, like you know I.
So my parents were divorced andmy life with my dad was like
amazing.
He was.
He's been sober since I was twoyears old, very emotionally
intelligent man, um, and youknow he provided in ways that I
(36:58):
could.
You know I could do gymnastics,I could compete in snowboarding
and travel and, you know, dothese things and not be scared
to go home at night.
And then with my mom it waslike food stamps, cops, being in
a couple drunk drivingaccidents with her where the
cars were totaled, and beingscared walking down the road off
(37:21):
the bus with my brother everyday, not knowing what we're
going to come home to.
And so when I made the decisionat 10 and I moved and lived with
my dad permanently in JacksonHole, I didn't feel like I
should complain because my lifethen and there was great and I
was really well taken care of.
But, um, you know, I was likewho am I to complain?
(37:45):
Like I have I'm okay and I feellike I still kind of carry that
sometimes and, um, of beinglike a white woman who has
access to healthcare.
You know, when I have friendswho live in other um, in other
(38:06):
States that maybe don't havelike all the holistic healing
I've been able to, you know,whether it's acupuncture or like
the opportunity to microdoseand do these things, it's like
it's like it's.
It's a weird dichotomy Like Ifeel like a burden but I'm like,
oh God, I'm so lucky though,like I'm so blessed.
(38:29):
Um, and it's been a lot for myfamily, it's been a lot for my
dad.
You know I all those unresolvedchildhood traumas caught up with
me.
When I was 20, I had to go torehab for anorexia and you know
(38:51):
that was scary.
I was put in Stanfordcardiology department with fear
of heart failure.
You know there's a lot ofstress.
And then I didn't finisheverything there I should have,
and then, you know I didn't.
I really kept pushing thosethings that I grew up with in
(39:14):
and I never wanted to speakbadly about my mom either,
because I felt really sad forher.
And the older I got and startedto understand mental illness
more, which I, you know, when Iwas six and seven, had no idea
what was going on, other than Iwas like incredibly scared all
the time, or like had the bestmom in the world, like it was
(39:34):
back and forth.
But you know, I carried all ofthat stuff, then into drugs and
alcohol and, um, yeah, I really,um, you know I overdosed, I
tried to kill myself.
I, I put my family through a lotand then that stuff on top of
(39:58):
all the surgeries, the calls hey, we need family members to be
here to make decisions whileyour daughter's unconscious, um,
before we do this next surgeryfor a brain.
You know, it's been a lot, andso, while my dad has never, ever
once made me feel guilty, hewould probably like me to
complain more.
Um, yeah, it's, I know that I'mworthy of having help and um,
(40:34):
but yeah, it's, it's hard.
Often, eric needs to kind oflike step in and be like, what
can, what do you need?
You know, um, and that's, youknow.
That's something that I need tocontinue to work on and is in
my communication, and you know,to be a better version of myself
is asking for help rather thanum, or complaining.
(40:57):
Even you know, um, I know I doall the things to try to feel my
best, and so if I weren't doinganything to feel better and
then complaining on top of thatlike there's nothing, I hate
more than when people do that.
Lunden Souza (41:14):
Do nothing and complain about everything.
Jenn Reno (41:16):
Yeah, yeah, that's like something I have to work on
of my tolerance, because I,because I'm just like the, I'll
try anything help me.
Like how I was with drugs,basically Right, like, if one is
good, 10 or better.
Like I'm like that with withwellness.
I'm like Ooh, what is it?
Tell me more.
(41:37):
What does it feel like?
Yeah, like a healthier version,to feel seen and heard if she's
(42:00):
having feelings or if she hurtherself and if she needs help.
Lunden Souza (42:06):
I want her to feel safe in asking for help when
she needs it and that it's not aburden, and so you know I need
to lead by example in that, yeah, be the model for her and being
someone, yeah, who grew up with, yeah, a dad who was a coach,
where it was like quit yourcrying, find a way, suck it up.
(42:29):
I have a great relationshipwith my dad.
I love him.
We have so much fun togetherand that was the nature of how I
grew up.
I often will joke with him andbe like, yeah, I'm not a, I know
I wasn't a 16 year old baseballplayer that needed, you know, a
little pump up to get up to batand serve.
You know, I was like a littlegirl, you know.
(42:50):
And one of my favorite videosever that you've sent me because
sometimes Jenn will send mevideos of Harper, little
messages there was one where shewas laying on the ground and
you had crystals on her and shewas breathing and you could just
tell like you know, that's hernormal, like that's just like
(43:12):
what you do and she knows how toconnect with her breath and you
get to have those fun moments.
But I remember watching thatvideo so many times.
In fact, I hope I still have itI probably do in our scroll
history.
But you said she's four, right,and how are you now?
I know you said before.
You're like I wonder what mylife would be like if I had
(43:34):
meditation at that age.
Well, obviously you're nowbreaking that pattern and
providing that for Harper, whichis so beautiful and that's one
of my favorite videos of herever.
I was just like, oh my gosh.
Like what a lucky girl, what alucky child to choose you as a
mom, you know.
And so like, what's thatdialogue like with a
(43:55):
four-year-old of what it's liketo connect with your breath?
Also, like, does she see mommyin pain and have questions about
those things?
Like what's the conversationwith your child, with Harper?
Jenn Reno (44:08):
like so she, since having her, I've had one spine
surgery about a year and a halfago, and so what happens is my
spine dislocates, so my neckdislocates, and then I like
rupture discs and do things, andso it happened very suddenly
(44:29):
and for the couple months afterthat I was in bed.
I couldn't take her to the park, I couldn't do anything with
her, and then I had surgery andthen I wasn't allowed to pick
her up for I think eight weeks,maybe three months, again just
in bed, couldn't be anywherewith her.
But she was so sweet and shestill is, because my neck is
(44:49):
very painful these days and justsomething I'm, you know, kind
of dealing with again.
But she'll be like, if sheasked me to pick her up, I'll
hold her and then she cups thefront and the back of my neck
like my neck brace does.
And she's like, if I, if sheasked me to pick her up, I'll
hold her, and then she cups thefront and the back of my neck
like my neck brace does, andshe's like I'll hold your neck
for you, mama.
Or sometimes, when she wantsalone time with with her dad,
(45:12):
she'll be like mommy, why don'tyou go get an ice pack and go
rest your neck upstairs.
It's kind of like a a beat itbut your ice pack and go rest.
So she's very, um, she's veryaware, she's very emotional, um,
and like kisses where I'm hurt.
(45:32):
She'll kiss my hip a lot orlike cradle it, um, and so you
know, my mom had really badchronic pain too and she could
have easily.
So my mom's passed, my mompassed away 10 years ago but, um
, you know, I remember beingreally afraid of her pain,
(45:53):
really afraid.
And, um, I don't, I don't wantHarper to be afraid of mine, I
don't, I don't want Harper to beafraid of mine and you know I
try to talk about the thingsthat we do to help ourselves and
you know, when it comes tomeditation, really so I was four
(46:16):
months pregnant when COVIDstarted and all my classes that
I taught all over Los Angelesbecame virtual.
I had tons of virtual Reikiclients and so, with her in my
belly, I was doing so muchenergy healing and so much
breathing and mantra meditationbecame like my thing, which I
did throughout my labor as well,and it kind of just like we
(46:41):
didn't even really talk about it.
She just I always had my soundballs out and all my crystals
and just open like let her playwith them.
You know, like I came to termswith things were going to break,
but I want her to have thatcuriosity and wonder and have
access to them, um, and playwith them.
And so, yeah, I don't, I don'teven know the belly breath, Like
(47:06):
she was so young right there Ithink she was two and she take
in that video.
She's taking a few deep breaths,has crystals all on her chakras
and she says, mama breath and Igo you want me to take a deep
breath?
And she goes, yeah, and so thenI take a deep breath with her,
um, and you know, when I dropher off at school she's like I
(47:29):
hope you have a great meditation.
I, I go teach meditation acouple of days a week and I
think she thinks I'm meditatinglike the whole time.
She's gone.
Um, I'll pick her up fromschool.
How was your meditation mama?
Did you teach the grownups?
And so, you know, I love that,it makes me, it makes me happy.
I love that she wants to playthe sound bowls and she learned
(47:52):
how to om really young and she,we love to om together.
So you know, I just want her toexplore any and all of it.
Um, I, you know I wasn't raisedwith any religion.
I was raised with on star Wars,um, the force.
(48:15):
My dad would be like whateveryou need is within you, like the
force, like in star Wars, andso that's like literally what we
grew up with and like I wanther to know that, like whatever
she needs, it's, she has it orwill be there to help support
her in that.
But really, for me to likemeditation is my prayer.
(48:38):
Um, meditation is my connectionto whatever it is Like.
I don't, I don't know, I don'tbelieve in God, but I believe in
something much bigger andgreater than myself and I know I
feel so much more connected tothat through meditation.
You know, like when I'm out ona hike or under the Tetons, or
(49:02):
even just out on a walk on thetrails here with my dog, it's
like I just feel something somagical and present and my
practice keeps me in touch withthat.
Lunden Souza (49:17):
When you said about Harper, you're like I
don't want her to be afraid ofmy pain.
How do you want Harper to feelabout her pain?
Jenn Reno (49:29):
Um, I don't want to say inviting, but like, well, it
depends on what kind of pain,you know, because it's like on
what kind of pain you know,because it's like if it's
heartbreak, you know, when she'sa little bit old or a lot older
, and you know like I want herto feel everything, even if it's
(49:54):
really hard to witness.
Because, you know, I rememberonce I broke a boyfriend's heart
.
I made a really big mistake.
It was very selfish, and Icalled my dad crying and he said
I'm so glad you finally fuckedup.
And I've always kept thosewords with me because when I
(50:17):
lived with my dad I was such aperfectionist and wanting to
make everybody happy and, um,you know, while I was like
experimenting with drugs andalcohol at a very young age, I
wasn't the kid who was likeoutwardly rebelling, it was like
quiet, but I was still, youknow, a good like I did horrible
in school, but I was a verynice student.
Lunden Souza (50:39):
You know like.
Jenn Reno (50:40):
I was a nice friend.
Yeah, you know, I did well ingymnastics, I did well in
snowboarding, like I kept theact up, like I always had this
facade, um and so, like thosewords, I'm so glad you finally
fucked up.
It's like I want Harper to knowthat, no matter what she's
(51:03):
always loved, um, whatever youknow she does, whatever mistakes
she makes, like she's loved andwhatever pain she's having, um,
you know she'll be held andsupported.
And you know always, we alwaysneed that reminder, even though
we're like oh, when people arelike, it gets better.
(51:23):
I promise You're like yeah,yeah, I have this friend.
Lunden Souza (51:28):
when you said that , it just reminded me a really
close friend of mine, jana, andshe's in her sixties and we've
been, yeah, really close for awhile.
But I remember when I movedback to America from Austria and
then spent a lot of time inSouthern California, which is
where she lives.
(51:48):
I remember just expressingthings to her that were hard and
uncomfortable and that were astruggle for me, and expressing
emotions.
And she has a story not thesame as yours but still as much
of like are you fucking kiddingme?
That type of past and thingsgoing on.
(52:09):
And I remember when I wouldexpress some of these things to
her, she'd be like you're doingsuch a great job and I'm so
excited for you.
I'm just so excited for you.
And I remember being pissed whenshe would say that I'd be like
what do you mean?
You're excited for me.
This sucks right now, but what Inow know is on the other side
of that pain, on the other sideof that obstacle or that hard
(52:33):
moment or that heartbreak, onthe other side of the fuck up,
like your dad said, is so muchmagic and is so much learning
and growth and everything thatyou need to keep evolving and
keep growing and keep leaninginto that future version of
yourself, that higher version ofyourself.
But I remember when she wouldsay that in the moment, like you
(52:57):
said, when people are like, oh,it's going to get better,
you're like, all right, cool,thanks for the feedback, see you
later, go on.
But she would do that to me too.
There was such excitement andthis joy in her eyes, knowing
that I was struggling andsuffering, and not because she
wanted me to be there, but sheknew what was on the other side
(53:19):
of that and she had been throughso much and gotten on the other
side of that too.
But when you said that, itreminded me of that.
So I'm really grateful for Janaand all the encouragement and
wonder and excitement that shehad while I was going through a
really hard time, a really hardtime.
Jenn Reno (53:40):
I really like Brene Brown's talks on shame you know
and love her, something I'mcontinually experiencing, I
think, even on your posts likeyou're like feeling a little
shameful of like being in thismess and I'm like, hey, I'm here
too with you, Like, and Ineeded you to write what you did
(54:00):
to also feel okay.
And I remember when I got clean, I often spoke at meetings all
over LA and I had just found outthat day that I did something
like really I was so disgustedwith in my using that when I was
(54:22):
in a blackout before I ended upin rehab, that when I was in a
blackout before I ended up inrehab and I was so disgusted and
ashamed and I got up and Ispoke about it in front of 150
people.
And afterwards this youngergirl cause I was like 28, 29,
this younger girl came up to meand just started crying and
(54:44):
she's like I've never toldanybody, but I did the same
thing and I needed this tonightand it was like, oh, like that
was my first real like you know,and with feeling alone, in
chronic, in moments, withchronic pain.
It's like, while there'snothing you can really do for
Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, the bestthing I have found is community
(55:06):
.
So I'm a part of this likeFacebook group, right, and I've
met some really wonderful,amazing friends who have it and
we support each other or wecommiserate, you know, or offer
our experiences and what hashelped us through some period or
another.
And now it's like I feel solucky that I found these
practices to help with my painbecause, because I am that
(55:31):
person that's like, okay, I'll Imean, I wasn't this way of
meditation, obviously, butbefore that, anything I'll try,
right, Like whether it'sacupuncture or different herbs
or just whatever, give it to me,or just whatever give it to me.
I can help other people who aregoing through what I am, you
(55:55):
know.
So, like a lot of my privateclients are people with chronic
and acute pain and illness andthat feels like to help others
find relief from something thatcan feel like it's stealing your
life.
It's your higher power.
Like for years, pain was myhigher power.
I talked about this on KristenBirdwell's podcast, that I even
did the 12 steps once around,pain being my higher power.
(56:17):
And you know, to see peoplelike release it, lose that fear
is just like it's the best work.
I love my job.
I can't believe I get to dothis and, you know, sometimes
(56:39):
it's the simplest suggestionstoo.
I had a girl in my meditationclass the other day and she was
like, oh my God, I'm spinningout.
I really need this.
Thank you so much.
She kept thanking me before iteven started.
I'm like no, no, it's here.
I'm like I'm glad you're here.
And then I was like okay, justso you know, you can lay down,
you can move around during thepractice, like whatever you need
to do.
And she's like I can.
(57:09):
And I said, yeah, this is yourtime to nourish your body, so do
what you need for it.
You know like if there's otherpeople in the class, you have to
be mindful of noise, but if youneed to shift into comfort, do
that.
And she was like that justchanged my life and it's like
such a small to me.
But I didn't know that either,because I have pain, Like I've
been squirming around, sittinghere, talking to you while I'm
(57:30):
teaching.
I am like stretching my hip outand moving because I can't sit
there.
And when I meditate, if I don'tmake it my own practice and
like my teacher, David G, alwayssays, comfort is queen I'm
going to focus on my throbbinghip or my lower back pain.
I'm not going to pay attentionto where I'm supposed to be
guided to, and so you know, justbeing able to offer such small
(57:56):
solutions to like changesomebody's view on meditation,
and how simple it can be, isgreat.
I love it Like it's like-.
Lunden Souza (58:08):
The permission slip.
You're like with you tellingyour story.
In that instance where thatgirl came to you, it was like
her permission slip to thenshare hers, right, and then I
think maybe people listening too.
It's like you think you go to ameditation class or whatever
and you can't move and you justhave to sit there and you know
and like, then you get movearound, do what feels good for
(58:30):
your body, like this is for you.
It's not about doing it right,it's about doing it and showing
up.
Jenn Reno (58:37):
Um, yeah, making that time like okay, if you're going
to make the effort to show uphere, make it worthwhile.
Lunden Souza (58:47):
Make it what you want it to be.
Jenn Reno (58:48):
Yeah, Don't be like that meditation was awful
because I couldn't move.
My body was hurting so bad.
That was an awful meditation.
It's like I don't want thatexperience for anybody.
Lunden Souza (59:00):
Yeah, yeah.
One last thing, because I knowthere's some.
I always tell myself if oneperson is impacted by this
episode, that's what we're doingLike, that's why we're here,
because that one person couldhave been you or me or anyone.
And so if somebody's listeningthat does have chronic pain,
what would be like one piece ofadvice or one thing that you
(59:24):
would suggest that they leaninto or discover?
Would it be meditation?
What would that next best stepfor the person listening?
Thinking okay, and where do Istart?
Jenn Reno (59:37):
The first, really most important thing is that you
are your own best advocate,like if you with all your heart
and gut, know something is wrongand feels off, continue
fighting for finding an answerand a solution.
Um, and if that means bringingsomebody with you to support you
(59:59):
and doctor's appointments too,which is something I I'd bring
my dad as much as I could Alwaysyeah, keep fighting for
yourself.
Like, use your voice.
It's your body, you know itbest and you know, through that,
finding a doctor that listensto you.
And then I really suggest, yes,meditation and listening to
(01:00:21):
guided meditations to start.
I think guided meditations andthey can be five minutes long.
You know like you got to startsomewhere and five minutes can
like change your life.
And you know, sometimes I justdo like the 16 second breath or
a box breath right A few timesand I'm like, okay, I feel
better than I did before that.
(01:00:42):
So you know there's so manygreat meditation apps out there.
Some of them are free.
You can type in pain in thesearch box or whatever you're
going through illness, maybeit's loss, you know a different
kind of pain and, um, find ameditation or a teacher whose
voice really resonates with you.
(01:01:03):
Don't stop after the first one.
If you don't like that voice,find somebody else, because
there's a teacher for everybody.
Lunden Souza (01:01:11):
Um, if you want to meditate with me that, was
going to be my next question howdo they meditate with you?
What apps?
Jenn Reno (01:01:30):
how do they connect with you?
I'm on the unplug meditationapp and, um, I have four
meditations for pain.
I think they're anywhere fromlike eight to 16 minutes long,
so none of them are extremelylong.
You can lay down in your bed,put pillows everywhere, get as
comfortable as you want and, um,yeah, just learn to breathe
into your body, you know.
Breathe all the way down intoyour belly, fill it.
(01:01:53):
Learn to guide your breath, justlike I like to imagine my
breath is swirling golden lightlike stardust spinning through
my body and I just breathe itinto different body parts where
I'm hurting, and then I imaginethat my exhale is carrying it
away, and I do that with, likeyou know, a thought that I don't
(01:02:16):
like, or like I was having alot of judgment recently and I
didn't like that part of me andit felt really bad and yucky,
and so I was really trying toexhale and let go of judgment.
You know things that aren'tserving us.
So connect to your breath.
That's all you need really islike the willingness to be quiet
(01:02:39):
for a little bit.
Nourish yourself and breatheinto wherever your body's
calling for it.
Lunden Souza (01:02:50):
Thank you for you, Jenn.
I love you so much and thisconversation I know has been
healing for somebody out therelistening.
It for sure has been for me.
I'll put all the links to howto connect with Jenn in the
description.
Check out her meditations inthe Unplug app.
(01:03:11):
Connect with her everywhere andI'll send you so you can put
that in there.
Jenn Reno (01:03:18):
I have a link for 30 free days on the Unplug app and
you don't have to put yourcredit card number in or
anything.
So you can just try those 30days and go from there.
Lunden Souza (01:03:28):
Perfect, we need that for sure.
Thank you guys for listeningand thank you, Jenn, and we'll
see you at the next episode.
Jenn Reno (01:03:37):
Thank you.
Lunden Souza (01:03:45):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
Self Love and Sweat, thepodcast.
If you enjoyed this episode orwere inspired by it or something
resonated with you, do me afavor and share this episode
with a friend, someone that youthink might enjoy this episode
as well.
That's the ultimate complimentand the best way to make this
(01:04:07):
podcast ripple out into theworld of others, and also you
can leave us a review up to fivestars wherever you're listening
to the podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you at the next
episode.
I appreciate you.
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