December 6, 2024 • 53 mins
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In this episode, Lunden and Aubrie share their most awkward communication moments, discuss how improving their communication has strengthened their relationships and careers, and reveal how to let go of the fear of judgment to speak with clarity and confidence.
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Timestamps to help you navigate this episode:
0:00 Intro
0:24 FREE Self Love & Sweat MONTHLY Calendar
4:41 Overcoming Insecurities in Communication
14:33 Navigating Confidence in Speaking
23:03 Letting Advice Take A Backseat
33:37 Overcoming Social Anxieties
43:13 The Challenge of Making Adult Friendships
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YouTube: https://youtube.com/lundensouza
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lunden Souza (00:00):
Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the
place where you'll get inspiredto live your life
unapologetically, embrace yourperfect imperfections and do
what sets your soul on fire.
I'm your host, Lunden Souza.
Hey, before we jump into thisepisode, I just want to make
(00:27):
sure that you get all the freethings possible, If you haven't
already.
You need to get your Self Loveand Sweat free monthly life
coaching calendar.
Honestly, the way to experiencedeep change in your life is by
doing small little things overtime, and so that's what you'll
(00:48):
find in this free calendar.
You can get it by going tolifelikelunden com/calendar.
Get yours for free and let'sget into today's episode.
Welcome back to the podcast.
Today, we have Aubrie Pohl backon the podcast.
You've been here, I think, likethree or four Welcome back
Aubrie Pohl (01:11):
Thanks, I'm excited to be back.
I'm really excited for thistopic and it's fun to just
converse with you.
In a way, you're one of myreally great friends and, yeah,
let's dive into it.
Lunden Souza (01:21):
Yeah, I sent Aubrie over a bunch of random
questions about this topic thatwe're going to discuss today.
So that's kind of how today'sepisode is going to go.
We're going to talk aboutquestions that have to do with
communication and confidence.
Happy birthday, by the way.
Me and Aubrie both just had ourbirthdays.
Aubrie Pohl (01:43):
Hey, hey, on to the next year.
Lunden Souza (01:50):
Both November birthdays.
I feel like there's a lot ofpeople that I love that were
born in November.
When I look at my Novembercalendar, I'm like, oh shit,
there's a lot of powerhousesthat I love.
Aubrie Pohl (01:56):
Okay.
So one time I heard that peoplewith November birthdays
basically you reap the autumnharvest at this time of year and
because we're planting a lot inthe spring and in the summer,
we're growing the food and thenin the autumn we get to reap the
harvest.
So people at this time of yeartend to be more optimistic or
(02:19):
cheerful because we're eatingour labor that we did during the
spring and summer and I thoughtthat was a really cool,
interesting fact, because youand I talk about being focused
on silver linings, likerelentlessly focused on the
silver lining, and maybe that'salso because of the time of year
, because we're eating all thefruits that we've been growing
for so long, metaphorically, andphysically.
Lunden Souza (02:40):
I used to.
I love that reframe or thatvisual because as a kid I didn't
like having my birthday inNovember because it was always
cold.
I wanted a summer birthdaybecause then you could do like
fun birthday party things.
But now as I get older I'm likeyeah, I kind of like that.
It goes like my birthday intothe holidays, into like the end
(03:01):
of the year, and it's kind oflike the yeah, I don't know, I
wanted to say period at the endof a sentence.
That's not right because I knowit's not a period.
Maybe it's like the dot dot dotor it's just like that bookend
at the end of a full year oflike oh, yeah, okay, now I get
to celebrate me, celebrategratitude, be with family and
(03:21):
then kind of get revved up forthe next year.
So, anyways, cheers to Novemberbirthdays.
If your birthday is in Novembertoo, Send us a DM so we can
celebrate you.
Aubrie and I are hosting a freemasterclass coming up in January
, all about communicating withconfidence, and if you want to
(03:42):
sign up for that, you can do so.
It's absolutely free.
It's on January 11th.
It'll be a two-hour freemasterclass, all on this topic
lifelikelunden.
com/CWC.
And so when Aubrie and I werecoming up with questions or
ideas for all the things to talkabout.
Today, a lot of what we'regoing to talk about is
(04:03):
communicating with confidence,and moments that we've sucked or
been embarrassed, or just ourjourney of communication land.
So here we are.
Here we are.
What question should we startwith?
Aubrie, you want to pick?
Aubrie Pohl (04:21):
Oh my goodness.
Well, when you brought up theone that was talking about the
most awkward moment, I justthought it was such a good
question because basically thequestion is asking what's the
most awkward thing you've eversaid in public and how did you
recover?
And I was thinking about it andI thought of a couple specific
examples where I was in front ofa group of people and I said
something weird.
But I remember, I strictlyremember, years ago in my
(04:44):
must've been mid twenties it wasbefore I learned NLP but I
remember making the decision inmy mind that being embarrassed,
the only way that you can beembarrassed, is if you think
things are embarrassing.
And so I had a little reframeswitch in my mind that says I'm
tired of being embarrassed.
And at that time I was going tothe gym a lot and so maybe I
was embarrassed of being seen atthe gym.
(05:04):
You know, the observation ofbeing perceived by other people
could be embarrassing.
And then I made that decision inmy mind.
That's like no, I will nolonger be embarrassed, because I
don't think things need to beembarrassing, because I have a
couple moments, maybe in myyounger days, where being
embarrassed in front of a groupof people would ruin my day,
(05:27):
like I would spin on it for daystoo.
And I remember having thatfeeling and sensation that I was
like I don't want to beembarrassed anymore.
And so now I speak in front ofpeople all the time and you know
, sometimes when you're talkingyou just you say things that you
don't really intend on saying,because you miss a word or you
skip a word or you say somethingdifferent, and if it's
(05:47):
embarrassing, it's onlyembarrassing because you're
embarrassed, and so if you'renot embarrassed, then things
can't be embarrassing, and itwas a good reframe for me.
So I like that first question.
Lunden Souza (05:59):
Yeah, I like that one too, and you and I were
talking about it a little bitbefore.
We pressed record of, like,what was our most awkward thing
you've ever said in public.
And I said, and the way I feelabout this now but I'm actually
thinking of something that Icould probably share for this
answer to this question, that Ididn't think of before, but it's
like now I'm not sure ifthere's anything that I could
(06:20):
say that would make me feelawkward or embarrassed, unless I
maybe said something offensiveto somebody that I really didn't
mean to, that was unkind.
Then maybe I would feel like,oh, like, yeah, awkward,
embarrassed maybe is not theright word, but I'm just trying
to think of like yeah, and Ijust recently watched the movie
(06:42):
Inside Out too, where there'sembarrassment and like some of
the new emotions.
But one of the things that Ican think of when it comes to
awkward and embarrassing is whenI first started making videos
for Runtastic in 2012.
And I would redo the videosover and over and over and over
(07:04):
and over and over and over again, and I would watch the video
and then like, judge myself andthink it was embarrassing or
awkward or I said somethingweird.
And I remember when I lived inSan Clemente, uh, I lived with
um, this guy, any, I lived withthis guy, gavin.
(07:30):
Super awesome dude, we were soclose, so cool.
Anyways, I remember I was inthe living room recording a
video for Rentastic for theirheart rate tracking app.
So back in the day they hadthis app where you could use the
light on the back of your phoneand then you would put your
finger on it and it would liketrack your heart rate through
some sort of light technology onyour phone.
And I think I redid like it wasprobably two sentences that I
(07:52):
had to say.
It was for like a Valentine'sDay special, and I think I redid
it at least 50 times at least.
Right, and at some point Gavincomes out.
He's like okay, you're done,you're done, it sounds great,
you're done.
He probably heard me say heheard me.
He was in the room next to itwith his door shut, poor guy.
And so I remember being kind ofembarrassed then.
(08:15):
And then I just kind ofremember, yeah, just working
through, not being embarrassed,not caring, doing it in one take
.
It's okay if you fumble overyour words or you mess up or
your hair was out of place orwhatever.
But I remember feeling soawkward and embarrassed when he
walked out because I was like,oh my gosh, he heard me.
And it's like, well, of coursehe heard you.
The neighbors probably heardyou.
(08:35):
You redid it so many times andhow did I recover?
I mean, that's kind of a toughquestion because I don't feel
the need to recover fromsomething like that, but I just
remember feeling super awkwardin that moment and then probably
if you go back and watch allthose old videos, you'll be like
, oh yeah, Lunden was superawkward then too.
Aubrie Pohl (08:57):
What did you recover?
In what way did you recoverfrom the need to do 50 retakes,
because that's a whole wormholein itself.
I remember I was making videosat home, too, with one of my
roommates, jilly, and then shecomes out and she's like that's
so good.
I'm like, yeah, I need to do itagain though.
And she's like what?
Like yeah, I need to record itagain.
So I have other takes and shelooks at me and she's like don't
(09:19):
record it again.
Why would you do that?
You just did it.
You did it fine and great, andit's as if it didn't come in my
brain that I could be okay withone take or just three, you know
, and she's the best of three.
So I had that thing in my braintoo, where it's like no, I
didn't pronounce this onesentence in this one way, with
that one intonation that goes upand it can sound even better.
(09:40):
But that's that fight forperfection almost in our brain.
So how'd you recover from that?
Lunden Souza (09:46):
How did I recover from?
I'm not really sure if therewas a moment that I remember
switching or, like you mentioned, like how you just decided you
weren't going to be embarrassedanymore.
I think I just had so manyrepetitions under my belt that
maybe I did math.
I was like, okay, one videotimes, 50 takes times, however
many videos I needed to do perweek.
(10:07):
And then you're like ain't,nobody got time for that, and
you know what I stopped doingtoo.
I stopped watching it.
Afterwards I stopped.
Even now when I record podcasts,I don't go back and listen to
it.
Then, before I publish it, if Iknow there's something that
needs to be edited, which isvery few and far between, like
(10:27):
if there was a disconnect or ahiccup.
Or I was interviewing this moma few months ago and she had to
take a pause break because herchild had to go to the bathroom.
So she's like pause, I'm goingto go take my kid to the
bathroom, I'll be right back.
So I had to edit out somethings in there, but for the
most part I just put it outthere and give a little less
fucks.
In fact, I remember this isinteresting that this memory
(10:49):
came to mind Jade's ex-wife Jill.
Before I met Jade, anything meand my mom went to one of her
retreats in Venice Beach in 2013.
And I remember her and I took apicture together and then I was
like, oh, do you like it?
(11:10):
And she goes, oh, just post it.
That's my new thing.
I don't even look at picturesanymore.
I say, just post it.
And I remember thinking cool.
And then I remember thinkinglike, oh, how do you do?
Like you just let someone posta picture that you haven't seen
yet.
You know, and I know that thatwas maybe her thing of like,
okay, I'm just going to not care.
And by, you know, just lettingpeople post, just post it, fuck
(11:31):
it, post it.
Who cares if there's somethingin my teeth or it wasn't my best
smile or whatever?
So I think that's maybe what Iwas feeling too is just kind of
like, oh, just record it andpost it, record it and post it.
And I think that's kind of how Igot beyond it.
I think now I don't yeah, Idon't.
I remember caring and now Iremember not caring, but I don't
remember that shift of like oh,today I decided I'm no longer
(11:55):
going to be embarrassed.
But also, you know, I had inthe beginning of a lot of these
videos and creation and stuff Iwas battling and you know, or
working with, let's say, workingto move out very bad cystic
acne, so I also was like makingsure that the lighting was okay,
my makeup was good, you know.
(12:16):
So there was a lot of likephysical insecurity.
That, I think, was also coupledwith a lot of like what was I
saying?
Does it sound stupid?
Anyways, I don't remember how Irecovered, but I think I'm
recovered now.
Aubrie Pohl (12:27):
That sounds like a great recovery.
Lunden Souza (12:34):
Oh, but wait, wait .
At our first Voice of Impactseminar, remember how nervous I
was and I was like I was.
I didn't even remember what Isaid.
I was embarrassed.
I think Maybe that wasembarrassment, maybe that was
just nervous.
But I, this second one we'vedone, I felt great and I've
spoken on so many stages.
I just think it was a new arenafor me, like a new way of
engaging.
And you asked me you go, what'sthe difference between?
You said this.
I just remembered you were likewhat's the difference between
(12:56):
you talking on a podcast and youtalking in front of on?
And I was like, oh, people, andisn't it wild that I can coach
on communication with you?
Have a podcast, talk in frontof people, thousands of people,
even at some points in my lifeand career, and then me still be
like, oh, but there were peoplethere.
(13:16):
That was scary.
Aubrie Pohl (13:17):
Yeah, my Instagram, one of my Instagram posts last
week.
It's scary because it's new,not because you're incapable.
It's scary because it's new,not because you're incapable.
It's scary because it'sdifferent, not because you're
incapable.
And that is all full circleabout this masterclass
communicate with confidence,because this is all putting
yourself in those new arenas sothat you can feel more
(13:38):
comfortable.
And I had the opportunity tomake a talk about confidence
last month and my favorite blipof the whole talk is don't wait
until you're confident to showup.
Show up until you're confident.
And I couldn't agree to thatmore, because the more that we
put ourselves in thesesituations to talk in front of
people or podcasts and show ourskills and just share the
(14:01):
information that we want toshare, the more that we have the
opportunity to step into thatconfidence.
Because really, a lot of itjust stems from these
insecurities that we have for norhyme or reason, just a
programming that we created whenwe were younger.
And when we grow out of thoseprogrammings we see, oh, it's
weird, why was I so insecure?
Well, I had reasons to beinsecure in the moment and it
still stems from an underlyinginsecurity where that is the
(14:22):
thing to work on, and so it'seasy to communicate with
confidence after you movethrough those areas of
resistance and awareness thatyou need to have.
Lunden Souza (14:33):
Love it.
What is your most awkward thingyou've ever said in public?
Do you know?
Aubrie Pohl (14:39):
I don't know, like I don't know if it's awkward,
it's just stuff that you saywhen you're speaking in front of
people.
And I've had multiple timeswhere I meant to say and talk
about one thing and I talkedabout something maybe
inappropriate or off-kilteredand some of the room knew what I
meant, some of the room didn'tknow what I meant and it was
just this moment of like oh,we're not all on the same page.
And to recover that from thatas a speaker, the first thing is
(15:07):
that perception is projection.
So if I'm starting to getnervous and spin on that, I said
something quote, unquote, wrongor not, okay, then everyone's
going to read that in the room.
But if I make sure that, evenif I say something off or off
kilter or doesn't belong in thatmoment, if I just keep it light
and breezy, other people willtoo.
If I just keep it light andbreezy, other people will too.
So that's what I have in my headis like light and breezy.
(15:28):
Light and breezy because themore that I can perceive that
within my own life, the morethat I can project that and then
give other people opportunityto project that too, cause we're
all going to mess up the morethat you talk out loud, the more
likely you're going to mess up,because you're doing it more
often.
And so I would say those arethe most awkward moments, for
sure.
And then one time, one time, uh, I was talking to someone and
(15:49):
he's like yeah, you're kind ofawkward, but it's cute.
I was like, okay, it's cute.
Okay, I can be awkward.
And it was like this permissionthat even if it is awkward,
it's cute, it's fine.
Lunden Souza (16:06):
Right, and I guess I should say too, we, I, I, I
asked chat GPT for thesequestions.
So when she asked us when chatGPT, she's a she and my model of
the world when she asked usthese questions and I was
reading through some of them too, I was kind of like, okay, well
, what is awkward?
Can awkward be like a good, youknow, and there's like
quirkiness to awkward and I kindof, you know, and it's what you
know, when things are like toopolished or too perfect, then
you don't like resonate as much.
(16:27):
So I think if someone told me Iwas awkward but cute, I would
take it as a compliment too,just like you did.
Aubrie Pohl (16:32):
Yeah, I loved it.
Lunden Souza (16:33):
I was like let's see what's another.
What's the next question?
Okay, this is cool.
Can you share a moment when youweren't confident but had to
fake it, and what did you learnfrom that experience?
Aubrie Pohl (16:52):
Oh, my goodness, I would say the first, the
beginning.
What I get sent back to in mybrain is when I worked at
Innovative Results, which was agym and I was helping run it I
was one of the lead trainers wasa gym and I was helping run it.
I was one of the lead trainersand my boss had been stepping
into moments in time where hewould make like a five minute
speech before class just aboutyour mind, your body, your
wellness, the way that you move,and then we would go into the
(17:14):
workout.
So I was like, oh, if he's, ifhe's doing that, maybe I can too
.
So I would take those momentsand I would start talking about,
you know, growth mindset versusfixed mindset.
And I remember being so nervousand not confident and scared,
and I faked it, you know, andit's fake it till you make it,
believe it, until you become it,feel it, until you reel it.
(17:35):
But I remember in my brainsaying, oh, my God, I'm scared
to do this, holy crap.
Okay, but just do it.
I'll be, just do it.
Just do it.
You can just start the workout,though you don't have to do
this whole talk beforehand.
No, Aubrie, you've got this,you can do it and I would push
myself to that space that I'd belike, all right, everyone
gather around.
So there's this thing of growthmindset versus fixed mindset and
I started to create that spacebecause I deep down desired to
(17:58):
be that person.
When I saw other people gettingin front of a group and talking
with confidence, I was like Iwant to do that.
I don't know why, but my bodyfelt pulled to it.
So I did that little battle inmy mind, oh, not even a little
battle.
It's like the cheerleader youhave inside of you.
That's like go, go, go beyondwhat you think is comfortable.
Lunden Souza (18:17):
You've got this.
Aubrie Pohl (18:18):
And I still do that to this day, and I think you
know, I think a lot of peoplesee me communicate with a lot of
confidence and not that it'snot real.
I'm a very confident individualand that's why it exudes
outward and a lot of the timeI'm also very insecure.
I have a lot of programmingwithin me that has that guidance
(18:42):
system of not really of doubt,like self-d doubt, but I'm over
that.
I'm not doing that anymore andso it's me finding who I want to
be with my previous programmingand holding space for both,
because both can be true.
You can communicate withconfidence and still have a
programming of insecurity.
That's there.
It's just about.
Can you make the decision inyour mind to step forth into the
(19:06):
person that you really want tobe and challenge yourself in
that way?
Lunden Souza (19:09):
And so that's what I do now.
Yeah, like which one's louder.
Aubrie Pohl (19:14):
Yeah.
Lunden Souza (19:15):
It's like not pretending, like that insecure,
nervous part of you isn't there,but then which side's going to
like win or which one gets tostep on stage.
I think that um a moment when Iwas, wasn't confident and had
to fake it.
Okay, so for sure, the firstVOI, first voice of impact, was
(19:38):
not super confident and had tofake it.
Also, side note, I had justgotten my hair done the week
before and the chick jacked itup and it was bright orange.
Don't lie, Aubrie, you told meit was orange, so my hair was
orange it was like a time Lunden.
That's wild though, because Idon't know if I've ever had that
moment where then I felt likeno girl, your hair's orange.
(19:59):
And then I also had anopportunity to go speak on stage
for two full days.
That was.
I was not confident, or, as Ishould say, I was not as
confident as I am doing that now, and it was new and I hadn't
done a seminar like that everfor two full days.
I mean, you were doing it, wedid it together, so it wasn't
(20:19):
just only me speaking the wholetime, but I think the longest
talk I had ever done before thatwas probably like an hour and a
half or two hours.
Yeah, mostly yeah, the onesthat were in person and even on
Zoom, just like, yeah, a couplehours, and I'd done retreats and
things like that.
(20:40):
Anyways, that was a moment whenI wasn't super confident and
had to just yeah, show up anyway.
Aubrie Pohl (20:47):
Yeah, we just threw you in there and you shined.
It was so great.
Lunden Souza (20:51):
We just did it Orange hair and all.
Aubrie Pohl (20:53):
Orange hair and all , and it was fun.
You know, I remember just beinglike this is part of the test.
You know, this is part of theexperience with you and your
hair too, because you know thatyou're a skilled speaker and you
know that your hair doesn'tmatter in the big scheme of
things, and it was still a thingthat was there and present and
it was still a thing that wasthere and present.
Lunden Souza (21:13):
It was a thing.
It was a thing.
And also when I wasn'tconfident in communication to
all probably say most recentlywas when I took the director
position at Brain Balance and Italked to a lot of families like
over 60 families a month, andeach of those families that I
talk with I talk for multiplehours and in the beginning I was
(21:34):
just so nervous because I waslike, okay, what if they ask me
if I have kids and I don't havekids?
That was like my biggest fearwas like that a parent was going
to ask me well, do you havekids?
And that happened, by the way.
A parent did ask me that infrustration and was like, well,
do you have kids?
Because I work with if you guysdon't know what brain balance is
, we work with kids who struggleacross the board behaviorally,
(21:57):
emotionally, socially,academically.
So, of course, when kids arestruggling, the family struggles
too, because we love our kids.
And so, anyways, I talked to alot of families for long periods
of time and I just rememberbeing so nervous that they were
going to think that I didn'tknow what I was talking about,
that who could this girl be thatdoesn't even have kids.
That's telling me that my kidneeds whatever program.
(22:19):
So that was probably a morerecent time last question, or
whenever you said it in thebeginning of like, yeah, you
aren't confident, but then youkeep doing it until you are
confident, like you work into it, and so I just told myself that
(22:39):
okay, you've had previousexperiences where you felt
awkward and you did it 50 timesto make a short little video and
now there's real people, sothere's no like do-overs and
that's okay and just like.
So that was a moment that Ifelt, yeah, not that confident
when I think of speaking andcommunicating and listening and
all the stuff that comes withthat.
So I think that was probablythe least confident I felt
(23:02):
recently.
Aubrie Pohl (23:03):
Yeah, it's all coming back to the skill sets
too, because you're so confidentdoing podcasts and to me,
podcasts are way different.
They're actually more of askill set that I'm developing
because, talking in front ofpeople, you've got the feedback,
you've got the receptivity ofthem laughing to your jokes or
the moments of humor, and youhave it in the moment.
(23:23):
Or they even make questionswith their face when you know
you need to change it tosomething that makes even more
sense.
And so you have that.
And then podcasts, you,podcasts.
You don't?
I'm glad right now we have itbecause we're dueling this
podcast and we have thatopportunity to get the feedback
from one another.
But other than that, you'retalking into a microphone, so
you're learning a lot of new,different skill sets.
I like this next question.
Lunden Souza (23:46):
What is it?
Aubrie Pohl (23:46):
What's one communication habit you've
changed that has had the biggestimpact on your relationships or
career?
Lunden Souza (23:52):
I love that you picked that because when I was
looking at the list, that's whatI was in my head.
I was thinking oh, I hopethat's the next question.
You read my mind.
What's one communication habityou've think has been the
biggest one?
Like holding back the advicetongue of like you should do
(24:29):
this.
I remember sitting.
I wasn't, I didn't.
When was this?
This was not.
I'm trying to think if this waswhen I moved back for COVID, it
doesn't matter either way.
I was in LA hanging out with myfriend Allie and our friend
Danielle, and we were all eatingfood somewhere together, like
at this, like deli.
I'm just imagining us likewe're all sitting somewhere and
I remember them talking abouthow they don't make enough money
(24:54):
at their job and I was likeokay, well, when's the last time
you asked for a raise?
And they were like never.
And I was like what do you mean?
You're supposed to ask for araise like every six months, are
you joking?
That's literally probably howit sounds.
And I remember seeing theirface of like damn girl, you know
.
And so that's.
That's the Lunden that I'vegraciously laid to rest is just
(25:17):
like let people just vent andshare when they want to, if they
want your advice, they'llprobably ask for it.
Right, like, what would you do,or what do you think?
Or you know, if you were me?
Like, just there's so many waysthat people know how to ask for
feedback if they want it that Ijust don't have to jump out and
give the advice.
(25:38):
Even in NLP and in coaching,the best advice oftentimes comes
in the form of a question.
So just like asking, you know,a question that helps someone
you know discover on their ownand figure out the answer on
their own.
So I think that one's been ahuge.
(25:59):
I remember when I was datingAndreas as well.
He has type one diabetes andyeah, I just would oftentimes
give him so much input,unsolicited advice on, like what
he should or shouldn't beeating, or how he should or
shouldn't be living his life,and oh, that was probably the
(26:19):
worst.
Him and I are such greatfriends now I'll have to ask him
how annoying he thought I wasthen.
But I remember when I startedto just like not give that
advice anymore and then at somepoint him and I lived together
and we just like he saw me likeday in and day out, like I wake
up, I do this, you know, andit's like, and I remember at one
point he was like he wasn't theright word in English.
(26:42):
The word that he was lookingfor was consistent.
But he was like I remember hegoes you're very consequent.
And I was like consequent.
And then, anyways, we figuredout that the word was not
consequent, but consistent.
And then he started being likeokay, I want some of that, like
if I would take my apple cidervinegar shot or my supplements
or go for a walk, even if it wassnowing or rain or whatever you
(27:03):
know.
And so I just realized, like,just stop telling people what
you think they should do andjust do yourself, and then, if
they want to catch on tosomething great.
And in the midst of also notgiving people advice, I'm also
learning from other people too.
I'm not the glory thing to lookat in the room all the time.
It's not just like I don't haveit all figured out.
I don't know why.
For some reason I thought thatso yeah, that changed.
(27:27):
My.
Everything is giving advice, Ithink, unless someone asks for
it, or yeah, just not wanting tojump to tell you what I think
you know.
Aubrie Pohl (27:40):
I really resonate with that.
When I go home to see myparents and my sister and I
remember years ago when I firstgot into health and fitness,
like almost 20 years ago, Iwould go home and I would shove
things in their faces and, youknow, I'd literally buy organic
spinach and be like this is whatwe're going to eat, whatever.
And they didn't have that atthat point and I remember still,
I would go home and be like youshould probably get a squatty
(28:02):
potty, because it allow yourfeet your feet to lift up and it
, you know, moves your sacralcenter in a different position
so that you can poop easier.
And it was like no, no, no, no.
And I come home for thisholiday and there's a squatty
potty.
So it always takes a few years,but eventually, if I'm just
being me, that's a lot easierand they don't feel like I'm
shoving ideas down their throat.
(28:23):
And I learned that and I lovethat with NLP is just having
that confidence to be able toask really good questions,
because that just helps withcommunication in general and
getting to know people betterand getting to know what's
happening on the inside of theirmodel of the world.
What's yours?
I was thinking about this and Iwant to put it in regards to
just like opening up to otherpeople, to letting them know
(28:45):
what you're experiencing, orletting them know what I'm
experiencing and I think thatwas the biggest marker was
giving myself permission to justshare authentically and be
really real with people.
But that was also verychallenging, and now I'm
experiencing that in some of thedating scene because you just
you really get to be direct, andsometimes being direct is
(29:10):
confronting your owninsecurities and also just fear
of rejection, fear of theresponse that you're going to
get, and you have to really comefrom a place of wholeness to be
able to present informationoutward.
But now I'm working on it.
Oh my gosh, it's so funny.
So I went on an online datingevent two nights ago because I
(29:30):
was like you know what?
All of a sudden, this cameacross my eye.
Lunden Souza (29:32):
I don't know this information yet.
Aubrie Pohl (29:34):
I don't, I haven't told you it yet.
And so it was an online datingevent through Eventbrite and I
was like, fuck it, let me justsee what happens On Zoom.
No, it was just through liketheir website, and so literally
it's like here's this guy comingfrom this location and I had
sent it to Arizona because I'mgoing to Arizona lately and like
(29:55):
that'd be cool if I can meetsomebody out there.
And it brought up people likeactual men onto the online
dating and it was speed dating.
So, yeah, eight minutes.
And it was very nerve wrackingfor me, but it was like the
reason that I did it was youknow, maybe I'll meet someone.
Most likely no, because thesemen were like in their late
forties, and but it was funbecause I would be like how old
(30:16):
are you?
And this one guy was like, oh,I'm 45.
And I was like, oh, okay, andwe talked a little bit more and
I was like, to be honest, that'sa little above my age bracket
for dating.
So I'm going to, you know, wishyou the best luck.
But that kind of communication,oh my gosh, is so new to me.
And being that direct with whatI'm feeling and what's present
in my reality towards a romantickind of scene and scenario.
(30:39):
So it was a really good timefor me to practice those skill
sets.
So that's what I'm working onlately is how to be more direct
but also set the boundaries thatI need to set.
Lunden Souza (30:49):
I love that Were you in breakout rooms for eight
minutes.
Is that like?
And you'd have one-on-one withthe person for eight minutes is
actually kind of a long time.
Aubrie Pohl (30:57):
Yeah, it was.
It was kind of a long time.
You could always end it earlyif you feel like it, so it gives
you the opportunity to cancel.
Nobody gets each other's numberor information unless you want
to after the call.
Lunden Souza (31:08):
It was a pretty cool setup, uh setup given for
what it was, and a really goodopportunity to practice some
good old direct communication,yeah, instead of making up a
story about something like oh, Ididn't like them, or that was
awkward, or they were like, youknow, it's like.
No, they're just like.
They might be great, but, likeage wise, that's not where I'm
(31:28):
at.
Aubrie Pohl (31:28):
And yeah, that's weird.
Right now I can't understandthe hang up and pretend that the
internet just got weird orsomething, because I didn't want
to, you know did you thinkabout doing that no.
Lunden Souza (31:42):
Well, that sounded very specific.
Aubrie Pohl (31:46):
Oh, the internet's really spotty If it hangs up
right now like what I can't hearyou.
But sometimes we'll do thatlike because we're scared of
communication, so we'll make upsome silly white lie in order to
not directly communicate.
And you know, in the datingscenario or in the past,
experiencing ghosting or beingtoo afraid to communicate myself
(32:08):
, and therefore ghosting hasbeen something I've been
involved in.
And so now I'm trying to makethat line within myself of like
no, you can't ghost either.
If you don't like ghosting, youcan't ghost either.
Aubrie.
Lunden Souza (32:19):
Yeah, no, internet failure ghosting happening here
.
Aubrie Pohl (32:24):
Oh, sorry, I didn't get the text or the message.
No, it's like you got to bestraight up, so that's been fun.
Lunden Souza (32:31):
Yeah, that's it.
Aubrie Pohl (32:32):
I'm so excited to hear more about this, that's
super interesting, I knowbecause I get with confidence so
much in every aspect of my life, especially when I'm speaking
and teaching NLP, and then allof a sudden in the dating world
I become like an insecure littlegirl and I just am working on
all of those insecurities.
It's been fun.
Lunden Souza (32:48):
That was going to be a question.
I take off the script or off.
The random list that we had waslike okay, you're such a great
communicator, where do you getmost nervous to communicate?
So, dating wise, that's whereyou feel most nervous.
Aubrie Pohl (33:01):
I can talk to a room of 300 people and be so
confident.
I can talk to a group of peopleand it's interesting because a
lot of people have a fear ofpublic speaking.
But I don't.
I don't have a fear of publicspeaking.
The more the merrier, that'sgreat.
My fear is one-on-onecommunication because that's way
more vulnerable.
In my model of the world, I'mseen way deeper and way more
(33:25):
known in one-on-one scenariosthan in one versus many than in
one versus many.
Lunden Souza (33:37):
Yeah, I remember when we had what did we have at
my house?
Aubrie Pohl (33:39):
and you were here visiting Dinner on purpose.
Lunden Souza (33:40):
No, because you weren't here for dinner.
No, when we did the walkingmeditation, remember, and you
were visiting and I invitedrandom not even random, but just
people I had met throughout themonths of being here in Utah
and then we all came in andwe're like chatting afterwards
and you afterwards you were like, did you notice how?
(34:00):
I was like in the corner,nervous, and I was like, oh, no,
I didn't actually Like I, wewere all just.
And you were like, oh, but youdidn't really.
And I was like, no, not becauseI wasn't paying attention to
you, I just felt like you werepart of you know, but I, I love
that you shared that Cause.
That was like that moment whereyou're probably like in your
own head or whatever, in thecorner, thinking, oh, I need to
engage or not, or whatever.
(34:21):
But I remember when you sharedthat with me afterwards I was
like, oh, okay, yeah, I get toknow more of you, which is great
, um, because you rush it infront of people.
I remember the first timetaking NLP, or actually not even
the first time taking your NLPcourse, but when you spoke at
the retreat in Costa Rica, I wasmesmerized.
(34:41):
I was like, oh shit, I couldwatch this girl talk for days
and hours and I have becauseI've taken all your
certification courses andeverything and you're just so
captivating.
But I think it's great to sharebecause just because you're
great on stage with a bunch ofpeople doesn't mean that you
feel good one-on-one.
So thanks for sharing.
Aubrie Pohl (34:57):
Yeah, it's so interesting too, because then in
those moments I'm like okay,what is real, and then what is
only in my head.
If I thought I was beingawkward in the corner and then
you said I wasn't, I was likedid I just make that up in my
brain?
Was I being completely normal?
Like did people not think thatI was being in?
It was just in my head stuff.
And I think that comes back to,you know, the idea of masking
(35:18):
or the roles that we try to playin front of scenarios, and so I
was just maybe feeling someunderlying pressure that I
needed to be a certain way, andthen I was just being naturally
me and I perceived it as beingawkward or different, when it
was actually just fine, whoknows.
Lunden Souza (35:35):
Right, yeah, I remember that part.
Aubrie Pohl (35:37):
Yeah.
It's so interesting too, when Ihave those moments and I relate
to people that have socialanxiety, because I used to
identify as somebody with socialanxiety.
And then I was talking to myfriend Gino and I just remember
this quote.
He was like Aubrie, they'rejust human.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
Yeah, but they're people.
And he's like, yeah, butthey're just like you, Like
nobody knows what we're doing,and it was such a release into
(36:00):
this relaxation that I can havewith people, and so now I try to
leave with that kind ofemotional center of there is no
pressure to be a certain waywhen you're with other people
and actually if you'reauthentically yourself, you're
going to feel better too.
Lunden Souza (36:14):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, you were talking about that.
I was thinking too about how,when I moved to Austria and was
always on camera and on stage,there were times where I felt
like being one on, like comingoff the stage, was hard and
really having those authentic,true one-on-one conversations,
(36:38):
really letting people know who Iam.
And then I think that's whypeople were like oh my gosh,
Lunden, are you just like,always motivated and always
happy and always positive andalways.
I don't think I knew how tolike and I think I'm still
discovering it too I don't thinkI knew how to be all parts of
(36:58):
me, because we all have not justlike the happy, good, good on
stage, confident, communicatewith confident parts.
There's also all the otherparts, and I think that when it
came time to, yeah, just stepoff the stage and then be
one-on-one or in small groups,there were parts that so badly
(37:19):
wanted to be seen, but I didn'tknow how to let them be seen,
because in my head I wasthinking like, oh well, if
you're not, you know, if you'rethese things, then you're not
these other things, and it'slike, actually, you can just be
all of the things and just kindof express what feels most right
in the moment.
Aubrie Pohl (37:38):
Yeah, definitely.
And you can be the speaker thatgoes on front of the stage in
front of 1100 people in Austriadoing an entire workout party
with this high energy, and youcan be the person that's just
more grounded and going throughemotional experiences and if
you're having a sad day, you canbe having a sad day.
And it's almost interesting whenwe get put on stages because
it's as if we have this rolethat we put forth.
(38:00):
It's a little bit of acting,but, to be honest, for me it's
like just being the speaker thatyou want to be.
Like, even if I'm having ashitty day, if I'm talking in
front of an audience, I'm notgoing to be so solemn as I would
be if I'm by myself.
I'm going to use thatopportunity to turn it off and
be the speaker that I want to be.
And so maybe in this way,before we think that we have
(38:22):
this perception to upholdbecause of who we are in front
of people on stage, and then werealize that that's just a veil
within itself and then we stepforward out of that and we can
be more real and raw and be moreintimate.
Settings with people,one-on-one or just a couple of
people.
Lunden Souza (38:39):
I think for me, the situations that I, the
conversations or the times forcommunication that get me a
little bit nervous and sweatyare conversations with people
that have known.
(39:01):
We've known each other for awhile or at least known each
other through different versionsof ourselves.
And I think I can think of liketwo people in particular, and
we both still want to be in eachother's lives and we both know
that we are evolving in new ways.
(39:22):
And so meeting those old peoplein a new frame of where I am
now and where they're at now,sometimes I get a little awkward
and uncomfortable in thosesituations of like we both know
we don't want to talk about thethings we used to talk about,
but how do we get into the flowof talking about these new ways
(39:46):
we want to go?
And so oftentimes in those likeawkward.
That's why I love dinner onpurpose and the card set that we
created.
I also love Googling likequestions to deepen
conversations.
I mean, that's what we're doingnow is just coming up with a
bunch of questions.
So in those scenarios withthose particular people I
usually end up like Googlingquestions or asking random
(40:08):
questions or like it's I get alittle nervous, like just going
into conversation sometimes withpeople that I've, that I've, I
don't know.
Does that make sense, like I'veknown them for a long time?
Aubrie Pohl (40:21):
Yes, Because there's a belief that making
friends as an adult is hard.
There's this societal beliefI've heard you know, my parents
say it, I've heard a lot of myfriends say it that making
friends as an adult is hard.
So there's this thing that weget to do now and hold space for
the moments where that beliefcould be present, Because it is
(40:42):
interesting to make friends andbe like hi, I like you, Do you
want to be friends?
Do you want to hang out with me?
Should we do this thing andthen cultivate conversation from
there, so growing therelationship?
And then how.
You also mentioned thefriendships that we've had for
years.
And when we change so much asan individual, sometimes when we
(41:04):
go back to those people wehaven't seen in a good amount of
time, we are different, likefundamentally different, and so
how do we present ourselveswhile also communicating that
we're different than we used tobe?
And there's a lot of theseunderlying medic communications
that can happen.
I really enjoy the beliefsystem that my friends you know
(41:26):
this one group of friends that Ihave in like 2017, we made this
decision of like who.
Every time you talk to somebody, allow them to be who they are
in that moment, and so, even ifyou haven't seen somebody for a
year, remember who they are andalso don't hold them to that who
(41:46):
they used to be, because theycould have made so many changes
in the last year.
So it was just kind of like okay, who are you today, Lunden?
I'm so grateful to be friendswith you for this long now, and
today you could be an entirelydifferent person.
So now I'm holding space to getto know Lunden as you are in
this moment.
Lunden Souza (42:03):
Totally and you're not one of the people I was
thinking of, because I feel likewhatever version I am in that
day is I.
For some reason I don't getnervous or sweaty or
uncomfortable around that.
But and then I don't thinkmaking friends as an adult is
hard, because I've made a lot offriends, but it's like they
only know this version of mewhich feels very good and
(42:25):
authentic, you know.
And then I think sometimes,when I'm around people being
this version of me that haveknown me and I don't know,
sometimes I get a little bitlike I don't know, like, am I be
?
I don't, it's, it's super wild.
I don't know.
I don't even know how to fullydescribe what that feeling is,
but it's like.
It's almost like wait, am I, amI being true to myself myself
(42:47):
now or am I being the versionbefore?
Is there a both?
And that can kind of dancetogether, because I have known
this person since I was 10 yearsold.
You know what I mean.
There's a little bit of likeyeah, it is kind of making
friends.
It's like re-being on theplayground again, but I don't
feel that with new people that Ijust met or whatever, but the
(43:09):
people that have been on thejourney of Lunden.
I feel that way with.
Sometimes there's a couple ofpeople that I can think of where
I'm like, yeah, I don't know.
Or I remember, like, um, when Ifirst started going to retreats,
and ones that I would say aremore spiritual, um, and internal
, internally inquisitive innature, and just about you know
(43:31):
just those types of retreats,and I remember thinking like, oh
, my gosh, I'm not deep enough,I don't know.
I remember one time being at aretreat in Scotland and one of
the guys was sort of askingpeople just like, oh yeah,
what's your favorite mantra?
Like, just like how, let's say,everyday, people might be like,
oh, what's your favoritebaseball team, you know.
And I remember like we werehiking and I like took a few
(43:54):
steps.
I remember thinking I don'tknow what my favorite is and I
don't want him to ask me, and Idon't feel like deep enough or
you know like, but I knew Iwanted to be there, I knew I was
craving growth, I knew I wascraving something different.
So now when I'm in thosemoments, I often think of that
moment of like, oh yeah, butremember when you first started
going to retreats and you wereby yourself and you didn't know
(44:14):
anyone and you knew you wantedto dive deeper into the essence
of you and your spirituality andjust healing through different
plant medicines and differentthings that your friends and
your family for sure weren'tdoing.
But that's also sometimes likein business or entrepreneurship
or, yeah, in other groups ofleaders.
(44:35):
I feel that way too, where Iget a little nervous, where I'm
like I don't know if I'm goodenough to be here.
But I think that's the wholepoint.
I think that you have to putyourself in those arenas where
you're like scared and you do itanyway, or you're nervous and
you feel small, but you're goingto show up confident anyways.
So those are some arenas whereI feel a little bit.
That doesn't mean I'm not goingto go there, it doesn't mean
(44:56):
I'm not going to have theconversation or I'm not going to
go to that room just becauseI'm not confident, but just for
the sake of being like superreal and honest in now of what
I'm thinking of.
I'm like, oh yeah, those arestill some moments that kind of
like a little nervous.
Aubrie Pohl (45:11):
Yeah, and you put yourself in those moments in
life too.
You what's that saying aboutputting on the bigger shoes
until you grow into them, kindof way of thinking.
You know, say, say yes now,figure out later.
And it's this underlyingcharacter and personality trait
that we have, that to be able tostep into those moments.
The other quote you know, ifyou're the smartest person in
the room, you're in the wrongroom, like you get to put
(45:33):
yourself in rooms where peopleare smarter, bigger, faster,
stronger, whatever it is,because then you get to, you get
to up level and you get to growand you put yourself in those
places to be able to make thatchange happen.
And it can be a little unnerving, like figuring out your
favorite mantra.
You know, you got to feel intoall the different mantras and if
(45:54):
you don't know that manymantras or you don't know if you
want to do one, that's like theSanskrit language.
You don't know the Sanskrit andthings like that can be nerve
wracking.
And then you realize that, oh,again, that's just insecurities
coming up and you can just sayanything and it's all going to
be okay.
There's no wrong answers.
Lunden Souza (46:09):
And no one yes, and no one like remembers what
you said.
You know, I think that's justsomething we can kind of like a
topic we can sort of land theplane with is like no,
(46:32):
everyone's so.
In their own world, ownprocessing, you know, filters,
their model that, like I havefriends and even clients who are
to use the word that youintroduced me to that I love
that are ruminating in likesomething that they said years
ago that they're still likeembarrassed about or nervous.
It's like nobody remembers whatyou said.
You guys listening to thispodcast now, once it's over, you
(46:56):
might remember a few thingsthat stood out to you or spoke
to you, but you're not going toremember like, oh, Lunden said
um too many times or that wasweird that she shared that about
that one Like nobody cares,like they don't, like they just
don't.
Aubrie Pohl (47:12):
So freeing too and that is full circle to
communicate with confidence.
It's the ability and it's likebecoming who you want to be and
who you are is not necessarilyabout becoming.
It's also about unbecoming whoyou aren't and shedding the
layers and the overthinkers.
People pleasers, perfectionismA lot of that often involves
(47:35):
shedding the perception that youthink you need to be and then
letting go of that to just bewhat's already there and who you
truly are.
And from that space can come alot of the confidence and
ability to speak without justbeing hard on yourself or
self-sabotaging yourself in anyway.
It's really a let go to comeinto the confidence that you
(47:57):
have within.
Lunden Souza (48:00):
There's a paper that I wrote on my fridge and it
says nobody cares.
You're going to die.
It's time, and that's also whatit makes me think of, because
it's like nobody cares you'regoing to die.
It's time, and that's also whatit makes me think of, because
it's like nobody cares ornobody's making it out of this
world alive.
It's time to communicate, it'stime to share, it's time to mess
up.
It's time to go to the onlinespeed dating events.
(48:23):
It's time to go to the seminar.
It's time to go to themasterclass.
It's time to be nervous and doit anyway.
It's time to have that hardconversation and mess up and do
it over.
It's just time to do all thethings that freak you out and
you're scared and make younervous, and public speaking and
even just communicating andhaving those hard conversations
(48:44):
and communicating in front ofpeople is like a bigger the top
fear next to dying.
So it's like might as well putthem, you know, together and be
like oh yeah, you know you'renot going to make it out of here
alive.
It's time to just show up andbe in front of people.
But that's why I'm sopassionate about communication
and public speaking, and thecoaching that you and I do is
(49:06):
because I know it's one of thetop fears and I just think,
being scared and doing it anyway, you get so much cool stuff out
of life I think, yeah, and thefear of being seen is real for
people too, the fear of beingexposed to the world.
Aubrie Pohl (49:30):
Being exposed to the world, and a lot of it can
stem from having you know,guidance, parental guidance, or
people that are guardians thatwatch after us that didn't
receive our feelings, didn'treceive who we were, and so
we're afraid to show ourselvesnow and all of that is just a
bunch of hooey, like you canthrow all of that out and you
can let yourself be seen, heard,known, right to be loved is to
be known by people, and you getto let people know who you are,
(49:50):
and so to be able to hold amasterclass or a safe space so
that people can learn the skillsets of releasing who you aren't
and who you're not meant to be,so that you can be who you are
confidently and communicate withthat confidence.
I feel so grateful to be onthis journey, to have that
information to present to peopleand also to have the experience
(50:11):
of it, to get to the space thatI'm in, to be able to share.
Lunden Souza (50:16):
Yeah, you're the best.
I love talking with you.
I could talk to you for hoursand I get to.
I get to all the time.
Um, thank you for for beinghere and for sharing and for all
the things and for you guyslistening.
We want to see your beautifulface on camera with us at our
communicate with confidencemasterclass on January 11th.
(50:38):
Um, I'll put the link in thedescription.
Wherever you're watching thisvideo clip or listening to this
audio, you'll you'll see thatlink, but it's lifelikelunden.
com/CWC communicate withconfidence CWC.
And you can sign up there.
It's absolutely free.
You'll have a two-hour seminaror a two-hour masterclass to
(51:01):
help you unlock some reallyimportant keys to expressing
yourself, not only on stage, infront of people, public speaking
yes, that's part of it and it'shuge and we love that piece but
then also offstage, rightInterpersonally, those
one-on-one conversations withour family, with our partners,
with our friends, those, yeah,those really powerful, potent,
(51:28):
like nitty gritty conversationsthat we get to have on the day
to day.
And then, of course, if youwant to speak and be on stage
and share your story and juststart to unleash more of that,
you're going to get all of thatin our masterclass.
I'm excited to host that withyou.
Aubrie Pohl (51:42):
Yes, your words are the gateway to your needs being
met.
So the more that we can havethis authentic, free-flowing
channel of energy from ourthroat.
That's our manifestation point,as well as coming out of our
throat and expressing andexternalizing our inner reality
to the people around us, or justto our reality.
It's so fun and this is goingto be a great masterclass.
(52:04):
So come join us.
Come join us so we can havethis time to hang, uh, hang out,
be free and speak freely,because we all deserve that.
Lunden Souza (52:14):
Yeah, we do Feels good.
Love you, Aubs.
Thanks for being here,appreciate you.
Aubrie Pohl (52:19):
I'll talk to you soon.
Lunden Souza (52:20):
Thank you, guys, for listening.
See you at the next episode.
Bye, bye thank you so much forlistening to this episode of
Self Love and Sweat the podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode orwere inspired by it or something
(52:41):
resonated with you, do me afavor and share this episode
with a friend, someone that youthink might enjoy this episode
as well.
That's the ultimate complimentand the best way to make this
podcast ripple out into theworld of others, and also you
can leave us a review up to fivestars wherever you're listening
(53:03):
to the podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you at the next
episode.
I appreciate you.
Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the
place where you'll get inspiredto live your life
unapologetically, embrace yourperfect imperfections and do
what sets your soul on fire.
I'm your host, Lunden Souza.
Hey, before we jump into thisepisode, I just want to make
(00:27):
sure that you get all the freethings possible, If you haven't
already.
You need to get your Self Loveand Sweat free monthly life
coaching calendar.
Honestly, the way to experiencedeep change in your life is by
doing small little things overtime, and so that's what you'll
(00:48):
find in this free calendar.
You can get it by going tolifelikelunden com/calendar.
Get yours for free and let'sget into today's episode.
Welcome back to the podcast.
Today, we have Aubrie Pohl backon the podcast.
You've been here, I think, likethree or four Welcome back
Aubrie Pohl (01:11):
Thanks, I'm excited to be back.
I'm really excited for thistopic and it's fun to just
converse with you.
In a way, you're one of myreally great friends and, yeah,
let's dive into it.
Lunden Souza (01:21):
Yeah, I sent Aubrie over a bunch of random
questions about this topic thatwe're going to discuss today.
So that's kind of how today'sepisode is going to go.
We're going to talk aboutquestions that have to do with
communication and confidence.
Happy birthday, by the way.
Me and Aubrie both just had ourbirthdays.
Aubrie Pohl (01:43):
Hey, hey, on to the next year.
Lunden Souza (01:50):
Both November birthdays.
I feel like there's a lot ofpeople that I love that were
born in November.
When I look at my Novembercalendar, I'm like, oh shit,
there's a lot of powerhousesthat I love.
Aubrie Pohl (01:56):
Okay.
So one time I heard that peoplewith November birthdays
basically you reap the autumnharvest at this time of year and
because we're planting a lot inthe spring and in the summer,
we're growing the food and thenin the autumn we get to reap the
harvest.
So people at this time of yeartend to be more optimistic or
(02:19):
cheerful because we're eatingour labor that we did during the
spring and summer and I thoughtthat was a really cool,
interesting fact, because youand I talk about being focused
on silver linings, likerelentlessly focused on the
silver lining, and maybe that'salso because of the time of year
, because we're eating all thefruits that we've been growing
for so long, metaphorically, andphysically.
Lunden Souza (02:40):
I used to.
I love that reframe or thatvisual because as a kid I didn't
like having my birthday inNovember because it was always
cold.
I wanted a summer birthdaybecause then you could do like
fun birthday party things.
But now as I get older I'm likeyeah, I kind of like that.
It goes like my birthday intothe holidays, into like the end
(03:01):
of the year, and it's kind oflike the yeah, I don't know, I
wanted to say period at the endof a sentence.
That's not right because I knowit's not a period.
Maybe it's like the dot dot dotor it's just like that bookend
at the end of a full year oflike oh, yeah, okay, now I get
to celebrate me, celebrategratitude, be with family and
(03:21):
then kind of get revved up forthe next year.
So, anyways, cheers to Novemberbirthdays.
If your birthday is in Novembertoo, Send us a DM so we can
celebrate you.
Aubrie and I are hosting a freemasterclass coming up in January
, all about communicating withconfidence, and if you want to
(03:42):
sign up for that, you can do so.
It's absolutely free.
It's on January 11th.
It'll be a two-hour freemasterclass, all on this topic
lifelikelunden.
com/CWC.
And so when Aubrie and I werecoming up with questions or
ideas for all the things to talkabout.
Today, a lot of what we'regoing to talk about is
(04:03):
communicating with confidence,and moments that we've sucked or
been embarrassed, or just ourjourney of communication land.
So here we are.
Here we are.
What question should we startwith?
Aubrie, you want to pick?
Aubrie Pohl (04:21):
Oh my goodness.
Well, when you brought up theone that was talking about the
most awkward moment, I justthought it was such a good
question because basically thequestion is asking what's the
most awkward thing you've eversaid in public and how did you
recover?
And I was thinking about it andI thought of a couple specific
examples where I was in front ofa group of people and I said
something weird.
But I remember, I strictlyremember, years ago in my
(04:44):
must've been mid twenties it wasbefore I learned NLP but I
remember making the decision inmy mind that being embarrassed,
the only way that you can beembarrassed, is if you think
things are embarrassing.
And so I had a little reframeswitch in my mind that says I'm
tired of being embarrassed.
And at that time I was going tothe gym a lot and so maybe I
was embarrassed of being seen atthe gym.
(05:04):
You know, the observation ofbeing perceived by other people
could be embarrassing.
And then I made that decision inmy mind.
That's like no, I will nolonger be embarrassed, because I
don't think things need to beembarrassing, because I have a
couple moments, maybe in myyounger days, where being
embarrassed in front of a groupof people would ruin my day,
(05:27):
like I would spin on it for daystoo.
And I remember having thatfeeling and sensation that I was
like I don't want to beembarrassed anymore.
And so now I speak in front ofpeople all the time and you know
, sometimes when you're talkingyou just you say things that you
don't really intend on saying,because you miss a word or you
skip a word or you say somethingdifferent, and if it's
(05:47):
embarrassing, it's onlyembarrassing because you're
embarrassed, and so if you'renot embarrassed, then things
can't be embarrassing, and itwas a good reframe for me.
So I like that first question.
Lunden Souza (05:59):
Yeah, I like that one too, and you and I were
talking about it a little bitbefore.
We pressed record of, like,what was our most awkward thing
you've ever said in public.
And I said, and the way I feelabout this now but I'm actually
thinking of something that Icould probably share for this
answer to this question, that Ididn't think of before, but it's
like now I'm not sure ifthere's anything that I could
(06:20):
say that would make me feelawkward or embarrassed, unless I
maybe said something offensiveto somebody that I really didn't
mean to, that was unkind.
Then maybe I would feel like,oh, like, yeah, awkward,
embarrassed maybe is not theright word, but I'm just trying
to think of like yeah, and Ijust recently watched the movie
(06:42):
Inside Out too, where there'sembarrassment and like some of
the new emotions.
But one of the things that Ican think of when it comes to
awkward and embarrassing is whenI first started making videos
for Runtastic in 2012.
And I would redo the videosover and over and over and over
(07:04):
and over and over and over again, and I would watch the video
and then like, judge myself andthink it was embarrassing or
awkward or I said somethingweird.
And I remember when I lived inSan Clemente, uh, I lived with
um, this guy, any, I lived withthis guy, gavin.
(07:30):
Super awesome dude, we were soclose, so cool.
Anyways, I remember I was inthe living room recording a
video for Rentastic for theirheart rate tracking app.
So back in the day they hadthis app where you could use the
light on the back of your phoneand then you would put your
finger on it and it would liketrack your heart rate through
some sort of light technology onyour phone.
And I think I redid like it wasprobably two sentences that I
(07:52):
had to say.
It was for like a Valentine'sDay special, and I think I redid
it at least 50 times at least.
Right, and at some point Gavincomes out.
He's like okay, you're done,you're done, it sounds great,
you're done.
He probably heard me say heheard me.
He was in the room next to itwith his door shut, poor guy.
And so I remember being kind ofembarrassed then.
(08:15):
And then I just kind ofremember, yeah, just working
through, not being embarrassed,not caring, doing it in one take
.
It's okay if you fumble overyour words or you mess up or
your hair was out of place orwhatever.
But I remember feeling soawkward and embarrassed when he
walked out because I was like,oh my gosh, he heard me.
And it's like, well, of coursehe heard you.
The neighbors probably heardyou.
(08:35):
You redid it so many times andhow did I recover?
I mean, that's kind of a toughquestion because I don't feel
the need to recover fromsomething like that, but I just
remember feeling super awkwardin that moment and then probably
if you go back and watch allthose old videos, you'll be like
, oh yeah, Lunden was superawkward then too.
Aubrie Pohl (08:57):
What did you recover?
In what way did you recoverfrom the need to do 50 retakes,
because that's a whole wormholein itself.
I remember I was making videosat home, too, with one of my
roommates, jilly, and then shecomes out and she's like that's
so good.
I'm like, yeah, I need to do itagain though.
And she's like what?
Like yeah, I need to record itagain.
So I have other takes and shelooks at me and she's like don't
(09:19):
record it again.
Why would you do that?
You just did it.
You did it fine and great, andit's as if it didn't come in my
brain that I could be okay withone take or just three, you know
, and she's the best of three.
So I had that thing in my braintoo, where it's like no, I
didn't pronounce this onesentence in this one way, with
that one intonation that goes upand it can sound even better.
(09:40):
But that's that fight forperfection almost in our brain.
So how'd you recover from that?
Lunden Souza (09:46):
How did I recover from?
I'm not really sure if therewas a moment that I remember
switching or, like you mentioned, like how you just decided you
weren't going to be embarrassedanymore.
I think I just had so manyrepetitions under my belt that
maybe I did math.
I was like, okay, one videotimes, 50 takes times, however
many videos I needed to do perweek.
(10:07):
And then you're like ain't,nobody got time for that, and
you know what I stopped doingtoo.
I stopped watching it.
Afterwards I stopped.
Even now when I record podcasts,I don't go back and listen to
it.
Then, before I publish it, if Iknow there's something that
needs to be edited, which isvery few and far between, like
(10:27):
if there was a disconnect or ahiccup.
Or I was interviewing this moma few months ago and she had to
take a pause break because herchild had to go to the bathroom.
So she's like pause, I'm goingto go take my kid to the
bathroom, I'll be right back.
So I had to edit out somethings in there, but for the
most part I just put it outthere and give a little less
fucks.
In fact, I remember this isinteresting that this memory
(10:49):
came to mind Jade's ex-wife Jill.
Before I met Jade, anything meand my mom went to one of her
retreats in Venice Beach in 2013.
And I remember her and I took apicture together and then I was
like, oh, do you like it?
(11:10):
And she goes, oh, just post it.
That's my new thing.
I don't even look at picturesanymore.
I say, just post it.
And I remember thinking cool.
And then I remember thinkinglike, oh, how do you do?
Like you just let someone posta picture that you haven't seen
yet.
You know, and I know that thatwas maybe her thing of like,
okay, I'm just going to not care.
And by, you know, just lettingpeople post, just post it, fuck
(11:31):
it, post it.
Who cares if there's somethingin my teeth or it wasn't my best
smile or whatever?
So I think that's maybe what Iwas feeling too is just kind of
like, oh, just record it andpost it, record it and post it.
And I think that's kind of how Igot beyond it.
I think now I don't yeah, Idon't.
I remember caring and now Iremember not caring, but I don't
remember that shift of like oh,today I decided I'm no longer
(11:55):
going to be embarrassed.
But also, you know, I had inthe beginning of a lot of these
videos and creation and stuff Iwas battling and you know, or
working with, let's say, workingto move out very bad cystic
acne, so I also was like makingsure that the lighting was okay,
my makeup was good, you know.
(12:16):
So there was a lot of likephysical insecurity.
That, I think, was also coupledwith a lot of like what was I
saying?
Does it sound stupid?
Anyways, I don't remember how Irecovered, but I think I'm
recovered now.
Aubrie Pohl (12:27):
That sounds like a great recovery.
Lunden Souza (12:34):
Oh, but wait, wait .
At our first Voice of Impactseminar, remember how nervous I
was and I was like I was.
I didn't even remember what Isaid.
I was embarrassed.
I think Maybe that wasembarrassment, maybe that was
just nervous.
But I, this second one we'vedone, I felt great and I've
spoken on so many stages.
I just think it was a new arenafor me, like a new way of
engaging.
And you asked me you go, what'sthe difference between?
You said this.
I just remembered you were likewhat's the difference between
(12:56):
you talking on a podcast and youtalking in front of on?
And I was like, oh, people, andisn't it wild that I can coach
on communication with you?
Have a podcast, talk in frontof people, thousands of people,
even at some points in my lifeand career, and then me still be
like, oh, but there were peoplethere.
(13:16):
That was scary.
Aubrie Pohl (13:17):
Yeah, my Instagram, one of my Instagram posts last
week.
It's scary because it's new,not because you're incapable.
It's scary because it's new,not because you're incapable.
It's scary because it'sdifferent, not because you're
incapable.
And that is all full circleabout this masterclass
communicate with confidence,because this is all putting
yourself in those new arenas sothat you can feel more
(13:38):
comfortable.
And I had the opportunity tomake a talk about confidence
last month and my favorite blipof the whole talk is don't wait
until you're confident to showup.
Show up until you're confident.
And I couldn't agree to thatmore, because the more that we
put ourselves in thesesituations to talk in front of
people or podcasts and show ourskills and just share the
(14:01):
information that we want toshare, the more that we have the
opportunity to step into thatconfidence.
Because really, a lot of itjust stems from these
insecurities that we have for norhyme or reason, just a
programming that we created whenwe were younger.
And when we grow out of thoseprogrammings we see, oh, it's
weird, why was I so insecure?
Well, I had reasons to beinsecure in the moment and it
still stems from an underlyinginsecurity where that is the
(14:22):
thing to work on, and so it'seasy to communicate with
confidence after you movethrough those areas of
resistance and awareness thatyou need to have.
Lunden Souza (14:33):
Love it.
What is your most awkward thingyou've ever said in public?
Do you know?
Aubrie Pohl (14:39):
I don't know, like I don't know if it's awkward,
it's just stuff that you saywhen you're speaking in front of
people.
And I've had multiple timeswhere I meant to say and talk
about one thing and I talkedabout something maybe
inappropriate or off-kilteredand some of the room knew what I
meant, some of the room didn'tknow what I meant and it was
just this moment of like oh,we're not all on the same page.
And to recover that from thatas a speaker, the first thing is
(15:07):
that perception is projection.
So if I'm starting to getnervous and spin on that, I said
something quote, unquote, wrongor not, okay, then everyone's
going to read that in the room.
But if I make sure that, evenif I say something off or off
kilter or doesn't belong in thatmoment, if I just keep it light
and breezy, other people willtoo.
If I just keep it light andbreezy, other people will too.
So that's what I have in my headis like light and breezy.
(15:28):
Light and breezy because themore that I can perceive that
within my own life, the morethat I can project that and then
give other people opportunityto project that too, cause we're
all going to mess up the morethat you talk out loud, the more
likely you're going to mess up,because you're doing it more
often.
And so I would say those arethe most awkward moments, for
sure.
And then one time, one time, uh, I was talking to someone and
(15:49):
he's like yeah, you're kind ofawkward, but it's cute.
I was like, okay, it's cute.
Okay, I can be awkward.
And it was like this permissionthat even if it is awkward,
it's cute, it's fine.
Lunden Souza (16:06):
Right, and I guess I should say too, we, I, I, I
asked chat GPT for thesequestions.
So when she asked us when chatGPT, she's a she and my model of
the world when she asked usthese questions and I was
reading through some of them too, I was kind of like, okay, well
, what is awkward?
Can awkward be like a good, youknow, and there's like
quirkiness to awkward and I kindof, you know, and it's what you
know, when things are like toopolished or too perfect, then
you don't like resonate as much.
(16:27):
So I think if someone told me Iwas awkward but cute, I would
take it as a compliment too,just like you did.
Aubrie Pohl (16:32):
Yeah, I loved it.
Lunden Souza (16:33):
I was like let's see what's another.
What's the next question?
Okay, this is cool.
Can you share a moment when youweren't confident but had to
fake it, and what did you learnfrom that experience?
Aubrie Pohl (16:52):
Oh, my goodness, I would say the first, the
beginning.
What I get sent back to in mybrain is when I worked at
Innovative Results, which was agym and I was helping run it I
was one of the lead trainers wasa gym and I was helping run it.
I was one of the lead trainersand my boss had been stepping
into moments in time where hewould make like a five minute
speech before class just aboutyour mind, your body, your
wellness, the way that you move,and then we would go into the
(17:14):
workout.
So I was like, oh, if he's, ifhe's doing that, maybe I can too
.
So I would take those momentsand I would start talking about,
you know, growth mindset versusfixed mindset.
And I remember being so nervousand not confident and scared,
and I faked it, you know, andit's fake it till you make it,
believe it, until you become it,feel it, until you reel it.
(17:35):
But I remember in my brainsaying, oh, my God, I'm scared
to do this, holy crap.
Okay, but just do it.
I'll be, just do it.
Just do it.
You can just start the workout,though you don't have to do
this whole talk beforehand.
No, Aubrie, you've got this,you can do it and I would push
myself to that space that I'd belike, all right, everyone
gather around.
So there's this thing of growthmindset versus fixed mindset and
I started to create that spacebecause I deep down desired to
(17:58):
be that person.
When I saw other people gettingin front of a group and talking
with confidence, I was like Iwant to do that.
I don't know why, but my bodyfelt pulled to it.
So I did that little battle inmy mind, oh, not even a little
battle.
It's like the cheerleader youhave inside of you.
That's like go, go, go beyondwhat you think is comfortable.
Lunden Souza (18:17):
You've got this.
Aubrie Pohl (18:18):
And I still do that to this day, and I think you
know, I think a lot of peoplesee me communicate with a lot of
confidence and not that it'snot real.
I'm a very confident individualand that's why it exudes
outward and a lot of the timeI'm also very insecure.
I have a lot of programmingwithin me that has that guidance
(18:42):
system of not really of doubt,like self-d doubt, but I'm over
that.
I'm not doing that anymore andso it's me finding who I want to
be with my previous programmingand holding space for both,
because both can be true.
You can communicate withconfidence and still have a
programming of insecurity.
That's there.
It's just about.
Can you make the decision inyour mind to step forth into the
(19:06):
person that you really want tobe and challenge yourself in
that way?
Lunden Souza (19:09):
And so that's what I do now.
Yeah, like which one's louder.
Aubrie Pohl (19:14):
Yeah.
Lunden Souza (19:15):
It's like not pretending, like that insecure,
nervous part of you isn't there,but then which side's going to
like win or which one gets tostep on stage.
I think that um a moment when Iwas, wasn't confident and had
to fake it.
Okay, so for sure, the firstVOI, first voice of impact, was
(19:38):
not super confident and had tofake it.
Also, side note, I had justgotten my hair done the week
before and the chick jacked itup and it was bright orange.
Don't lie, Aubrie, you told meit was orange, so my hair was
orange it was like a time Lunden.
That's wild though, because Idon't know if I've ever had that
moment where then I felt likeno girl, your hair's orange.
(19:59):
And then I also had anopportunity to go speak on stage
for two full days.
That was.
I was not confident, or, as Ishould say, I was not as
confident as I am doing that now, and it was new and I hadn't
done a seminar like that everfor two full days.
I mean, you were doing it, wedid it together, so it wasn't
(20:19):
just only me speaking the wholetime, but I think the longest
talk I had ever done before thatwas probably like an hour and a
half or two hours.
Yeah, mostly yeah, the onesthat were in person and even on
Zoom, just like, yeah, a couplehours, and I'd done retreats and
things like that.
(20:40):
Anyways, that was a moment whenI wasn't super confident and
had to just yeah, show up anyway.
Aubrie Pohl (20:47):
Yeah, we just threw you in there and you shined.
It was so great.
Lunden Souza (20:51):
We just did it Orange hair and all.
Aubrie Pohl (20:53):
Orange hair and all , and it was fun.
You know, I remember just beinglike this is part of the test.
You know, this is part of theexperience with you and your
hair too, because you know thatyou're a skilled speaker and you
know that your hair doesn'tmatter in the big scheme of
things, and it was still a thingthat was there and present and
it was still a thing that wasthere and present.
Lunden Souza (21:13):
It was a thing.
It was a thing.
And also when I wasn'tconfident in communication to
all probably say most recentlywas when I took the director
position at Brain Balance and Italked to a lot of families like
over 60 families a month, andeach of those families that I
talk with I talk for multiplehours and in the beginning I was
(21:34):
just so nervous because I waslike, okay, what if they ask me
if I have kids and I don't havekids?
That was like my biggest fearwas like that a parent was going
to ask me well, do you havekids?
And that happened, by the way.
A parent did ask me that infrustration and was like, well,
do you have kids?
Because I work with if you guysdon't know what brain balance is
, we work with kids who struggleacross the board behaviorally,
(21:57):
emotionally, socially,academically.
So, of course, when kids arestruggling, the family struggles
too, because we love our kids.
And so, anyways, I talked to alot of families for long periods
of time and I just rememberbeing so nervous that they were
going to think that I didn'tknow what I was talking about,
that who could this girl be thatdoesn't even have kids.
That's telling me that my kidneeds whatever program.
(22:19):
So that was probably a morerecent time last question, or
whenever you said it in thebeginning of like, yeah, you
aren't confident, but then youkeep doing it until you are
confident, like you work into it, and so I just told myself that
(22:39):
okay, you've had previousexperiences where you felt
awkward and you did it 50 timesto make a short little video and
now there's real people, sothere's no like do-overs and
that's okay and just like.
So that was a moment that Ifelt, yeah, not that confident
when I think of speaking andcommunicating and listening and
all the stuff that comes withthat.
So I think that was probablythe least confident I felt
(23:02):
recently.
Aubrie Pohl (23:03):
Yeah, it's all coming back to the skill sets
too, because you're so confidentdoing podcasts and to me,
podcasts are way different.
They're actually more of askill set that I'm developing
because, talking in front ofpeople, you've got the feedback,
you've got the receptivity ofthem laughing to your jokes or
the moments of humor, and youhave it in the moment.
(23:23):
Or they even make questionswith their face when you know
you need to change it tosomething that makes even more
sense.
And so you have that.
And then podcasts, you,podcasts.
You don't?
I'm glad right now we have itbecause we're dueling this
podcast and we have thatopportunity to get the feedback
from one another.
But other than that, you'retalking into a microphone, so
you're learning a lot of new,different skill sets.
I like this next question.
Lunden Souza (23:46):
What is it?
Aubrie Pohl (23:46):
What's one communication habit you've
changed that has had the biggestimpact on your relationships or
career?
Lunden Souza (23:52):
I love that you picked that because when I was
looking at the list, that's whatI was in my head.
I was thinking oh, I hopethat's the next question.
You read my mind.
What's one communication habityou've think has been the
biggest one?
Like holding back the advicetongue of like you should do
(24:29):
this.
I remember sitting.
I wasn't, I didn't.
When was this?
This was not.
I'm trying to think if this waswhen I moved back for COVID, it
doesn't matter either way.
I was in LA hanging out with myfriend Allie and our friend
Danielle, and we were all eatingfood somewhere together, like
at this, like deli.
I'm just imagining us likewe're all sitting somewhere and
I remember them talking abouthow they don't make enough money
(24:54):
at their job and I was likeokay, well, when's the last time
you asked for a raise?
And they were like never.
And I was like what do you mean?
You're supposed to ask for araise like every six months, are
you joking?
That's literally probably howit sounds.
And I remember seeing theirface of like damn girl, you know
.
And so that's.
That's the Lunden that I'vegraciously laid to rest is just
(25:17):
like let people just vent andshare when they want to, if they
want your advice, they'llprobably ask for it.
Right, like, what would you do,or what do you think?
Or you know, if you were me?
Like, just there's so many waysthat people know how to ask for
feedback if they want it that Ijust don't have to jump out and
give the advice.
(25:38):
Even in NLP and in coaching,the best advice oftentimes comes
in the form of a question.
So just like asking, you know,a question that helps someone
you know discover on their ownand figure out the answer on
their own.
So I think that one's been ahuge.
(25:59):
I remember when I was datingAndreas as well.
He has type one diabetes andyeah, I just would oftentimes
give him so much input,unsolicited advice on, like what
he should or shouldn't beeating, or how he should or
shouldn't be living his life,and oh, that was probably the
(26:19):
worst.
Him and I are such greatfriends now I'll have to ask him
how annoying he thought I wasthen.
But I remember when I startedto just like not give that
advice anymore and then at somepoint him and I lived together
and we just like he saw me likeday in and day out, like I wake
up, I do this, you know, andit's like, and I remember at one
point he was like he wasn't theright word in English.
(26:42):
The word that he was lookingfor was consistent.
But he was like I remember hegoes you're very consequent.
And I was like consequent.
And then, anyways, we figuredout that the word was not
consequent, but consistent.
And then he started being likeokay, I want some of that, like
if I would take my apple cidervinegar shot or my supplements
or go for a walk, even if it wassnowing or rain or whatever you
(27:03):
know.
And so I just realized, like,just stop telling people what
you think they should do andjust do yourself, and then, if
they want to catch on tosomething great.
And in the midst of also notgiving people advice, I'm also
learning from other people too.
I'm not the glory thing to lookat in the room all the time.
It's not just like I don't haveit all figured out.
I don't know why.
For some reason I thought thatso yeah, that changed.
(27:27):
My.
Everything is giving advice, Ithink, unless someone asks for
it, or yeah, just not wanting tojump to tell you what I think
you know.
Aubrie Pohl (27:40):
I really resonate with that.
When I go home to see myparents and my sister and I
remember years ago when I firstgot into health and fitness,
like almost 20 years ago, Iwould go home and I would shove
things in their faces and, youknow, I'd literally buy organic
spinach and be like this is whatwe're going to eat, whatever.
And they didn't have that atthat point and I remember still,
I would go home and be like youshould probably get a squatty
(28:02):
potty, because it allow yourfeet your feet to lift up and it
, you know, moves your sacralcenter in a different position
so that you can poop easier.
And it was like no, no, no, no.
And I come home for thisholiday and there's a squatty
potty.
So it always takes a few years,but eventually, if I'm just
being me, that's a lot easierand they don't feel like I'm
shoving ideas down their throat.
(28:23):
And I learned that and I lovethat with NLP is just having
that confidence to be able toask really good questions,
because that just helps withcommunication in general and
getting to know people betterand getting to know what's
happening on the inside of theirmodel of the world.
What's yours?
I was thinking about this and Iwant to put it in regards to
just like opening up to otherpeople, to letting them know
(28:45):
what you're experiencing, orletting them know what I'm
experiencing and I think thatwas the biggest marker was
giving myself permission to justshare authentically and be
really real with people.
But that was also verychallenging, and now I'm
experiencing that in some of thedating scene because you just
you really get to be direct, andsometimes being direct is
(29:10):
confronting your owninsecurities and also just fear
of rejection, fear of theresponse that you're going to
get, and you have to really comefrom a place of wholeness to be
able to present informationoutward.
But now I'm working on it.
Oh my gosh, it's so funny.
So I went on an online datingevent two nights ago because I
(29:30):
was like you know what?
All of a sudden, this cameacross my eye.
Lunden Souza (29:32):
I don't know this information yet.
Aubrie Pohl (29:34):
I don't, I haven't told you it yet.
And so it was an online datingevent through Eventbrite and I
was like, fuck it, let me justsee what happens On Zoom.
No, it was just through liketheir website, and so literally
it's like here's this guy comingfrom this location and I had
sent it to Arizona because I'mgoing to Arizona lately and like
(29:55):
that'd be cool if I can meetsomebody out there.
And it brought up people likeactual men onto the online
dating and it was speed dating.
So, yeah, eight minutes.
And it was very nerve wrackingfor me, but it was like the
reason that I did it was youknow, maybe I'll meet someone.
Most likely no, because thesemen were like in their late
forties, and but it was funbecause I would be like how old
(30:16):
are you?
And this one guy was like, oh,I'm 45.
And I was like, oh, okay, andwe talked a little bit more and
I was like, to be honest, that'sa little above my age bracket
for dating.
So I'm going to, you know, wishyou the best luck.
But that kind of communication,oh my gosh, is so new to me.
And being that direct with whatI'm feeling and what's present
in my reality towards a romantickind of scene and scenario.
(30:39):
So it was a really good timefor me to practice those skill
sets.
So that's what I'm working onlately is how to be more direct
but also set the boundaries thatI need to set.
Lunden Souza (30:49):
I love that Were you in breakout rooms for eight
minutes.
Is that like?
And you'd have one-on-one withthe person for eight minutes is
actually kind of a long time.
Aubrie Pohl (30:57):
Yeah, it was.
It was kind of a long time.
You could always end it earlyif you feel like it, so it gives
you the opportunity to cancel.
Nobody gets each other's numberor information unless you want
to after the call.
Lunden Souza (31:08):
It was a pretty cool setup, uh setup given for
what it was, and a really goodopportunity to practice some
good old direct communication,yeah, instead of making up a
story about something like oh, Ididn't like them, or that was
awkward, or they were like, youknow, it's like.
No, they're just like.
They might be great, but, likeage wise, that's not where I'm
(31:28):
at.
Aubrie Pohl (31:28):
And yeah, that's weird.
Right now I can't understandthe hang up and pretend that the
internet just got weird orsomething, because I didn't want
to, you know did you thinkabout doing that no.
Lunden Souza (31:42):
Well, that sounded very specific.
Aubrie Pohl (31:46):
Oh, the internet's really spotty If it hangs up
right now like what I can't hearyou.
But sometimes we'll do thatlike because we're scared of
communication, so we'll make upsome silly white lie in order to
not directly communicate.
And you know, in the datingscenario or in the past,
experiencing ghosting or beingtoo afraid to communicate myself
(32:08):
, and therefore ghosting hasbeen something I've been
involved in.
And so now I'm trying to makethat line within myself of like
no, you can't ghost either.
If you don't like ghosting, youcan't ghost either.
Aubrie.
Lunden Souza (32:19):
Yeah, no, internet failure ghosting happening here
.
Aubrie Pohl (32:24):
Oh, sorry, I didn't get the text or the message.
No, it's like you got to bestraight up, so that's been fun.
Lunden Souza (32:31):
Yeah, that's it.
Aubrie Pohl (32:32):
I'm so excited to hear more about this, that's
super interesting, I knowbecause I get with confidence so
much in every aspect of my life, especially when I'm speaking
and teaching NLP, and then allof a sudden in the dating world
I become like an insecure littlegirl and I just am working on
all of those insecurities.
It's been fun.
Lunden Souza (32:48):
That was going to be a question.
I take off the script or off.
The random list that we had waslike okay, you're such a great
communicator, where do you getmost nervous to communicate?
So, dating wise, that's whereyou feel most nervous.
Aubrie Pohl (33:01):
I can talk to a room of 300 people and be so
confident.
I can talk to a group of peopleand it's interesting because a
lot of people have a fear ofpublic speaking.
But I don't.
I don't have a fear of publicspeaking.
The more the merrier, that'sgreat.
My fear is one-on-onecommunication because that's way
more vulnerable.
In my model of the world, I'mseen way deeper and way more
(33:25):
known in one-on-one scenariosthan in one versus many than in
one versus many.
Lunden Souza (33:37):
Yeah, I remember when we had what did we have at
my house?
Aubrie Pohl (33:39):
and you were here visiting Dinner on purpose.
Lunden Souza (33:40):
No, because you weren't here for dinner.
No, when we did the walkingmeditation, remember, and you
were visiting and I invitedrandom not even random, but just
people I had met throughout themonths of being here in Utah
and then we all came in andwe're like chatting afterwards
and you afterwards you were like, did you notice how?
(34:00):
I was like in the corner,nervous, and I was like, oh, no,
I didn't actually Like I, wewere all just.
And you were like, oh, but youdidn't really.
And I was like, no, not becauseI wasn't paying attention to
you, I just felt like you werepart of you know, but I, I love
that you shared that Cause.
That was like that moment whereyou're probably like in your
own head or whatever, in thecorner, thinking, oh, I need to
engage or not, or whatever.
(34:21):
But I remember when you sharedthat with me afterwards I was
like, oh, okay, yeah, I get toknow more of you, which is great
, um, because you rush it infront of people.
I remember the first timetaking NLP, or actually not even
the first time taking your NLPcourse, but when you spoke at
the retreat in Costa Rica, I wasmesmerized.
(34:41):
I was like, oh shit, I couldwatch this girl talk for days
and hours and I have becauseI've taken all your
certification courses andeverything and you're just so
captivating.
But I think it's great to sharebecause just because you're
great on stage with a bunch ofpeople doesn't mean that you
feel good one-on-one.
So thanks for sharing.
Aubrie Pohl (34:57):
Yeah, it's so interesting too, because then in
those moments I'm like okay,what is real, and then what is
only in my head.
If I thought I was beingawkward in the corner and then
you said I wasn't, I was likedid I just make that up in my
brain?
Was I being completely normal?
Like did people not think thatI was being in?
It was just in my head stuff.
And I think that comes back to,you know, the idea of masking
(35:18):
or the roles that we try to playin front of scenarios, and so I
was just maybe feeling someunderlying pressure that I
needed to be a certain way, andthen I was just being naturally
me and I perceived it as beingawkward or different, when it
was actually just fine, whoknows.
Lunden Souza (35:35):
Right, yeah, I remember that part.
Aubrie Pohl (35:37):
Yeah.
It's so interesting too, when Ihave those moments and I relate
to people that have socialanxiety, because I used to
identify as somebody with socialanxiety.
And then I was talking to myfriend Gino and I just remember
this quote.
He was like Aubrie, they'rejust human.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
Yeah, but they're people.
And he's like, yeah, butthey're just like you, Like
nobody knows what we're doing,and it was such a release into
(36:00):
this relaxation that I can havewith people, and so now I try to
leave with that kind ofemotional center of there is no
pressure to be a certain waywhen you're with other people
and actually if you'reauthentically yourself, you're
going to feel better too.
Lunden Souza (36:14):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, you were talking about that.
I was thinking too about how,when I moved to Austria and was
always on camera and on stage,there were times where I felt
like being one on, like comingoff the stage, was hard and
really having those authentic,true one-on-one conversations,
(36:38):
really letting people know who Iam.
And then I think that's whypeople were like oh my gosh,
Lunden, are you just like,always motivated and always
happy and always positive andalways.
I don't think I knew how tolike and I think I'm still
discovering it too I don't thinkI knew how to be all parts of
(36:58):
me, because we all have not justlike the happy, good, good on
stage, confident, communicatewith confident parts.
There's also all the otherparts, and I think that when it
came time to, yeah, just stepoff the stage and then be
one-on-one or in small groups,there were parts that so badly
(37:19):
wanted to be seen, but I didn'tknow how to let them be seen,
because in my head I wasthinking like, oh well, if
you're not, you know, if you'rethese things, then you're not
these other things, and it'slike, actually, you can just be
all of the things and just kindof express what feels most right
in the moment.
Aubrie Pohl (37:38):
Yeah, definitely.
And you can be the speaker thatgoes on front of the stage in
front of 1100 people in Austriadoing an entire workout party
with this high energy, and youcan be the person that's just
more grounded and going throughemotional experiences and if
you're having a sad day, you canbe having a sad day.
And it's almost interesting whenwe get put on stages because
it's as if we have this rolethat we put forth.
(38:00):
It's a little bit of acting,but, to be honest, for me it's
like just being the speaker thatyou want to be.
Like, even if I'm having ashitty day, if I'm talking in
front of an audience, I'm notgoing to be so solemn as I would
be if I'm by myself.
I'm going to use thatopportunity to turn it off and
be the speaker that I want to be.
And so maybe in this way,before we think that we have
(38:22):
this perception to upholdbecause of who we are in front
of people on stage, and then werealize that that's just a veil
within itself and then we stepforward out of that and we can
be more real and raw and be moreintimate.
Settings with people,one-on-one or just a couple of
people.
Lunden Souza (38:39):
I think for me, the situations that I, the
conversations or the times forcommunication that get me a
little bit nervous and sweatyare conversations with people
that have known.
(39:01):
We've known each other for awhile or at least known each
other through different versionsof ourselves.
And I think I can think of liketwo people in particular, and
we both still want to be in eachother's lives and we both know
that we are evolving in new ways.
(39:22):
And so meeting those old peoplein a new frame of where I am
now and where they're at now,sometimes I get a little awkward
and uncomfortable in thosesituations of like we both know
we don't want to talk about thethings we used to talk about,
but how do we get into the flowof talking about these new ways
(39:46):
we want to go?
And so oftentimes in those likeawkward.
That's why I love dinner onpurpose and the card set that we
created.
I also love Googling likequestions to deepen
conversations.
I mean, that's what we're doingnow is just coming up with a
bunch of questions.
So in those scenarios withthose particular people I
usually end up like Googlingquestions or asking random
(40:08):
questions or like it's I get alittle nervous, like just going
into conversation sometimes withpeople that I've, that I've, I
don't know.
Does that make sense, like I'veknown them for a long time?
Aubrie Pohl (40:21):
Yes, Because there's a belief that making
friends as an adult is hard.
There's this societal beliefI've heard you know, my parents
say it, I've heard a lot of myfriends say it that making
friends as an adult is hard.
So there's this thing that weget to do now and hold space for
the moments where that beliefcould be present, Because it is
(40:42):
interesting to make friends andbe like hi, I like you, Do you
want to be friends?
Do you want to hang out with me?
Should we do this thing andthen cultivate conversation from
there, so growing therelationship?
And then how.
You also mentioned thefriendships that we've had for
years.
And when we change so much asan individual, sometimes when we
(41:04):
go back to those people wehaven't seen in a good amount of
time, we are different, likefundamentally different, and so
how do we present ourselveswhile also communicating that
we're different than we used tobe?
And there's a lot of theseunderlying medic communications
that can happen.
I really enjoy the beliefsystem that my friends you know
(41:26):
this one group of friends that Ihave in like 2017, we made this
decision of like who.
Every time you talk to somebody, allow them to be who they are
in that moment, and so, even ifyou haven't seen somebody for a
year, remember who they are andalso don't hold them to that who
(41:46):
they used to be, because theycould have made so many changes
in the last year.
So it was just kind of like okay, who are you today, Lunden?
I'm so grateful to be friendswith you for this long now, and
today you could be an entirelydifferent person.
So now I'm holding space to getto know Lunden as you are in
this moment.
Lunden Souza (42:03):
Totally and you're not one of the people I was
thinking of, because I feel likewhatever version I am in that
day is I.
For some reason I don't getnervous or sweaty or
uncomfortable around that.
But and then I don't thinkmaking friends as an adult is
hard, because I've made a lot offriends, but it's like they
only know this version of mewhich feels very good and
(42:25):
authentic, you know.
And then I think sometimes,when I'm around people being
this version of me that haveknown me and I don't know,
sometimes I get a little bitlike I don't know, like, am I be
?
I don't, it's, it's super wild.
I don't know.
I don't even know how to fullydescribe what that feeling is,
but it's like.
It's almost like wait, am I, amI being true to myself myself
(42:47):
now or am I being the versionbefore?
Is there a both?
And that can kind of dancetogether, because I have known
this person since I was 10 yearsold.
You know what I mean.
There's a little bit of likeyeah, it is kind of making
friends.
It's like re-being on theplayground again, but I don't
feel that with new people that Ijust met or whatever, but the
(43:09):
people that have been on thejourney of Lunden.
I feel that way with.
Sometimes there's a couple ofpeople that I can think of where
I'm like, yeah, I don't know.
Or I remember, like, um, when Ifirst started going to retreats,
and ones that I would say aremore spiritual, um, and internal
, internally inquisitive innature, and just about you know
(43:31):
just those types of retreats,and I remember thinking like, oh
, my gosh, I'm not deep enough,I don't know.
I remember one time being at aretreat in Scotland and one of
the guys was sort of askingpeople just like, oh yeah,
what's your favorite mantra?
Like, just like how, let's say,everyday, people might be like,
oh, what's your favoritebaseball team, you know.
And I remember like we werehiking and I like took a few
(43:54):
steps.
I remember thinking I don'tknow what my favorite is and I
don't want him to ask me, and Idon't feel like deep enough or
you know like, but I knew Iwanted to be there, I knew I was
craving growth, I knew I wascraving something different.
So now when I'm in thosemoments, I often think of that
moment of like, oh yeah, butremember when you first started
going to retreats and you wereby yourself and you didn't know
(44:14):
anyone and you knew you wantedto dive deeper into the essence
of you and your spirituality andjust healing through different
plant medicines and differentthings that your friends and
your family for sure weren'tdoing.
But that's also sometimes likein business or entrepreneurship
or, yeah, in other groups ofleaders.
(44:35):
I feel that way too, where Iget a little nervous, where I'm
like I don't know if I'm goodenough to be here.
But I think that's the wholepoint.
I think that you have to putyourself in those arenas where
you're like scared and you do itanyway, or you're nervous and
you feel small, but you're goingto show up confident anyways.
So those are some arenas whereI feel a little bit.
That doesn't mean I'm not goingto go there, it doesn't mean
(44:56):
I'm not going to have theconversation or I'm not going to
go to that room just becauseI'm not confident, but just for
the sake of being like superreal and honest in now of what
I'm thinking of.
I'm like, oh yeah, those arestill some moments that kind of
like a little nervous.
Aubrie Pohl (45:11):
Yeah, and you put yourself in those moments in
life too.
You what's that saying aboutputting on the bigger shoes
until you grow into them, kindof way of thinking.
You know, say, say yes now,figure out later.
And it's this underlyingcharacter and personality trait
that we have, that to be able tostep into those moments.
The other quote you know, ifyou're the smartest person in
the room, you're in the wrongroom, like you get to put
(45:33):
yourself in rooms where peopleare smarter, bigger, faster,
stronger, whatever it is,because then you get to, you get
to up level and you get to growand you put yourself in those
places to be able to make thatchange happen.
And it can be a little unnerving, like figuring out your
favorite mantra.
You know, you got to feel intoall the different mantras and if
(45:54):
you don't know that manymantras or you don't know if you
want to do one, that's like theSanskrit language.
You don't know the Sanskrit andthings like that can be nerve
wracking.
And then you realize that, oh,again, that's just insecurities
coming up and you can just sayanything and it's all going to
be okay.
There's no wrong answers.
Lunden Souza (46:09):
And no one yes, and no one like remembers what
you said.
You know, I think that's justsomething we can kind of like a
topic we can sort of land theplane with is like no,
(46:32):
everyone's so.
In their own world, ownprocessing, you know, filters,
their model that, like I havefriends and even clients who are
to use the word that youintroduced me to that I love
that are ruminating in likesomething that they said years
ago that they're still likeembarrassed about or nervous.
It's like nobody remembers whatyou said.
You guys listening to thispodcast now, once it's over, you
(46:56):
might remember a few thingsthat stood out to you or spoke
to you, but you're not going toremember like, oh, Lunden said
um too many times or that wasweird that she shared that about
that one Like nobody cares,like they don't, like they just
don't.
Aubrie Pohl (47:12):
So freeing too and that is full circle to
communicate with confidence.
It's the ability and it's likebecoming who you want to be and
who you are is not necessarilyabout becoming.
It's also about unbecoming whoyou aren't and shedding the
layers and the overthinkers.
People pleasers, perfectionismA lot of that often involves
(47:35):
shedding the perception that youthink you need to be and then
letting go of that to just bewhat's already there and who you
truly are.
And from that space can come alot of the confidence and
ability to speak without justbeing hard on yourself or
self-sabotaging yourself in anyway.
It's really a let go to comeinto the confidence that you
(47:57):
have within.
Lunden Souza (48:00):
There's a paper that I wrote on my fridge and it
says nobody cares.
You're going to die.
It's time, and that's also whatit makes me think of, because
it's like nobody cares you'regoing to die.
It's time, and that's also whatit makes me think of, because
it's like nobody cares ornobody's making it out of this
world alive.
It's time to communicate, it'stime to share, it's time to mess
up.
It's time to go to the onlinespeed dating events.
(48:23):
It's time to go to the seminar.
It's time to go to themasterclass.
It's time to be nervous and doit anyway.
It's time to have that hardconversation and mess up and do
it over.
It's just time to do all thethings that freak you out and
you're scared and make younervous, and public speaking and
even just communicating andhaving those hard conversations
(48:44):
and communicating in front ofpeople is like a bigger the top
fear next to dying.
So it's like might as well putthem, you know, together and be
like oh yeah, you know you'renot going to make it out of here
alive.
It's time to just show up andbe in front of people.
But that's why I'm sopassionate about communication
and public speaking, and thecoaching that you and I do is
(49:06):
because I know it's one of thetop fears and I just think,
being scared and doing it anyway, you get so much cool stuff out
of life I think, yeah, and thefear of being seen is real for
people too, the fear of beingexposed to the world.
Aubrie Pohl (49:30):
Being exposed to the world, and a lot of it can
stem from having you know,guidance, parental guidance, or
people that are guardians thatwatch after us that didn't
receive our feelings, didn'treceive who we were, and so
we're afraid to show ourselvesnow and all of that is just a
bunch of hooey, like you canthrow all of that out and you
can let yourself be seen, heard,known, right to be loved is to
be known by people, and you getto let people know who you are,
(49:50):
and so to be able to hold amasterclass or a safe space so
that people can learn the skillsets of releasing who you aren't
and who you're not meant to be,so that you can be who you are
confidently and communicate withthat confidence.
I feel so grateful to be onthis journey, to have that
information to present to peopleand also to have the experience
(50:11):
of it, to get to the space thatI'm in, to be able to share.
Lunden Souza (50:16):
Yeah, you're the best.
I love talking with you.
I could talk to you for hoursand I get to.
I get to all the time.
Um, thank you for for beinghere and for sharing and for all
the things and for you guyslistening.
We want to see your beautifulface on camera with us at our
communicate with confidencemasterclass on January 11th.
(50:38):
Um, I'll put the link in thedescription.
Wherever you're watching thisvideo clip or listening to this
audio, you'll you'll see thatlink, but it's lifelikelunden.
com/CWC communicate withconfidence CWC.
And you can sign up there.
It's absolutely free.
You'll have a two-hour seminaror a two-hour masterclass to
(51:01):
help you unlock some reallyimportant keys to expressing
yourself, not only on stage, infront of people, public speaking
yes, that's part of it and it'shuge and we love that piece but
then also offstage, rightInterpersonally, those
one-on-one conversations withour family, with our partners,
with our friends, those, yeah,those really powerful, potent,
(51:28):
like nitty gritty conversationsthat we get to have on the day
to day.
And then, of course, if youwant to speak and be on stage
and share your story and juststart to unleash more of that,
you're going to get all of thatin our masterclass.
I'm excited to host that withyou.
Aubrie Pohl (51:42):
Yes, your words are the gateway to your needs being
met.
So the more that we can havethis authentic, free-flowing
channel of energy from ourthroat.
That's our manifestation point,as well as coming out of our
throat and expressing andexternalizing our inner reality
to the people around us, or justto our reality.
It's so fun and this is goingto be a great masterclass.
(52:04):
So come join us.
Come join us so we can havethis time to hang, uh, hang out,
be free and speak freely,because we all deserve that.
Lunden Souza (52:14):
Yeah, we do Feels good.
Love you, Aubs.
Thanks for being here,appreciate you.
Aubrie Pohl (52:19):
I'll talk to you soon.
Lunden Souza (52:20):
Thank you, guys, for listening.
See you at the next episode.
Bye, bye thank you so much forlistening to this episode of
Self Love and Sweat the podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode orwere inspired by it or something
(52:41):
resonated with you, do me afavor and share this episode
with a friend, someone that youthink might enjoy this episode
as well.
That's the ultimate complimentand the best way to make this
podcast ripple out into theworld of others, and also you
can leave us a review up to fivestars wherever you're listening
(53:03):
to the podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you at the next
episode.
I appreciate you.
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