Owning Your Hot Mess & Letting Go Of Perfect with Kristin Birdwell

Episode Transcript
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Lunden Souza (00:00):
Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the
place where you'll get inspiredto live your life
unapologetically, embrace yourperfect imperfections and do
what sets your soul on fire.
I'm your host, Lunden Souza.
Hey, before we jump into thisepisode, I just want to make

(00:27):
sure that you get all the freethings possible, if you haven't
already.
You need to get your self-loveand sweat free monthly life
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Honestly, the way to experiencedeep change in your life is by
doing small little things overtime, and so that's what you'll

(00:48):
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You can get it by going tolifelikelunden.
com/calendar.
Get yours for free and let'sget into today's episode.
Hey, girlfriend

Kristin Birdwell (01:02):
How's it going ?
It's going.
How are you feeling?
I am feeling alive.
Earlier this morning I washaving some weird eye glitch
thing.
It was just like twitching.
I'm like what's going on here?
But I'm feeling good.
I'm excited to chat with youabout all things messy and lean

(01:25):
into that and go where we needto go.

Yeah, same Eye glitch.

Yeah, it was weird.
I was trying to do like somelike eyeliner, not eyeliner
mascara and I'm like why?
It's like it was weird.
It had like a little like kindof ethereal, sparkly thing in
the corner of my eye.
I'm like, what is this?
So I put some eye drops in.

(01:51):
I'm like, well, we're going toroll with it today.

Right, I guess for the video where I glitch might
be apparent.
It's not, but at least youdon't need your eyes to talk
about the mess today.

I'm like am I starting to see spirits now too?
I'm like what is this?
What's happening?

We are on the winter solstice, so I'm like hmm
, is today the first day of thewinter solstice?
No, it's the 21st.
Yeah today's the 21st.
Yeah, I had to look down at mycalendar at the bottom of my
computer screen to be like whatday is it?

Where are we at?
Yeah, you get a pass.

Well, I'm so excited to talk with you today.
I've met you in person, we'vechatted a little bit person.
We've chatted a little bit.
I don't know a ton about you.
I know I feel drawn andconnected to you and was really
excited.
I know we wanted to record lastweekend and we had to move some
things around and here we are,but we were messaging in our

(02:59):
NABA community about messy andbeing messy and embracing the
mess, and I think both of uswithout TMI, but I don't really
care we're both in the season ofour cycle of which it can feel
a little bit messier, and so weboth showed up anyways and we

(03:19):
were like yep, we're synced upand let's press record and let's
use it for both of our podcasts, so then we don't have to
record twice and go to that.

You know, and I'm totally going to lean into
that, you know there's some likeancient wisdom for women that
when they're on their cycle thatI feel like I get more, maybe
like downloads or intuitive orinspirational, like ideas.
I do crave more rest duringthat time.
but I am like totally wanted tohonor our commitment and do this
too.
Um, so I think there's likedefinitely something sacred and

(03:52):
like and like for me likespeaking of being messy, it's
one of the things of being messy, um, and just honoring that and
like if and for a long time Ihad to even shift my
relationship around that becauseI think it was like some
there's some shame, or you know,I remember feeling embarrassed,
like if my mom told my grandmaand stuff.

(04:13):
Then when, even when I got myperiod, um, and so it's like I
really coming to honor and liketreat that as sacred and like
honor the cycles of being awoman versus like it being
something to be afraid of orshamed, or if my emotions are
heightened I know I get more,even it seems more sensitive
around the certain times, likeluteal and then the actual bleed

(04:34):
too.
I don't know if you feel thatway.

Yeah, I think for a long time I didn't embrace the
different phases of our cycleand the different seasons that
we as women experiencethroughout a monthly cycle and
my background is in fitness andthat was like my last lifetime

(04:58):
of a career and what I leanedinto and was a big chunk of my
life, what I leaned into and wasa big chunk of my life, and I
remember feeling, like you said,the guilt and the shame or the
frustration around being tiredand being a little bit more in
need of rest and maybestretching and chilling, and I

(05:20):
always felt like, oh, you justgot to keep going.
And I remember we didn't thinkwe were.
Yeah, I didn't think we weregoing to start it on this topic,
but I love it, but I rememberwhen I was personal training
yeah, a long time ago, over 10years ago and I had this one
client who would often cancelher sessions when she was on her

(05:43):
period.
And now I'm like, oh, get it,sister.
Then in my head the story waslike okay, what do you mean?
You're on your period.
This was our commitment Do yourworkout, just work through it,
take some Advil and let's go.
And now it's definitely notthat way.
If I need more time for rest, Itrack my cycle.

(06:05):
I use the flow app.
So I'm always checking it everyday, logging my symptoms, um,
and just noticing where I'm at,even proactively.
Like you know, those few daysleading up to my cycle and the
first couple of days, like thatfive to seven day window, is
just like pump the brakes time alittle bit in a lot of ways,

(06:27):
you know feels better.

Totally I've leaned into like what workouts
during different time periods ofmy cycle, like if I'm in, you
know if I'm in ovulation or ifI'm in like one of the the other
before luteal, I'm like, okay,I, I I'm into hit and I'm into
like more energy.
But once it starts to get later, I'm like, okay, I want a
little more yoga, I want alittle more walking outside or
just like some rest or nature.

(06:50):
And then sometimes I just wantlike freaking horizontal time
and just rest and journal on abook.
But same for you, like you know, and I feel like in our culture
too, there's just like so muchlike go, go, go, do, do, do, go,
go, go, do, do, do.
Your worth is around yourproductivity and that's really
something that you know it'sserved me in so many different

(07:12):
time periods in my life of likegetting things done and
accomplishments but at the sametime like kind of distancing
myself from that and being inleaning into I'm worthy whether
I do X, y, z or not.
Um and so just kind of it's likeI'm having this shift and like
I honor and I'm grateful for thetime periods in my life where
it was like, okay, I needed todo these things to feel loved,
to feel accepted, to getattention from my parents or

(07:34):
whatever it was, or be a goodhuman or an achieving adult in
the world.
But now it's like, no, actuallyI'm worthy without it.
I still have like lots ofdreams and things I want to get
done, but how can I do this in away that like honors the truth
of my present moment?
And you know, my body takescare of it and that sort of

(07:54):
thing too.

Mm-hmm and beyond, exercise as well.
You know, as a woman inleadership and having multiple
businesses, I know that you'reholding the fort down too,
learning the different phases ofour cycle, and when it feels
good to be creative, when itfeels good to be more, line it

(08:17):
up, knock it down, get shit done.
When you're in that phase whereI don't want to say the debate's
not the word, that I'm thinkingof negotiations being more, you
know, in that follicular phase,ovulation where it's like, okay
, those are when I want to havethe tough conversations and when

(08:38):
it makes sense to be more inthat, let's say, yeah, masculine
energy of talking about thetough things, money, all that
kind of stuff versus later on inmy cycle where it might be a
little bit more, which I love,which I love, but I always

(08:58):
wondered why can't I do thissometimes, but not.
And as I leaned into more of thedifferent phases of my cycle,
I'm starting to learn when toschedule certain things and when
not.
And I also have a lot of womenon my team so honoring them and
being like, hey, I know thatwe're going to be doing this
wave together.
So if you need something or ifit's a hard day, feel free to

(09:21):
communicate that with me.
It's not too much information.
It's good if you're having amoment of being tired or low
energy, you know, and thenthere'll be times where I'm sure
you feel this too where we feelmore productive and it's like a
day is like getting shit done.

Yeah.

That feels so good .

For sure.
And like now, in this phase oflike the next, you know, three
to seven days it's I very muchlean into, okay, what intuitive
insights are coming in, or likewhat, what could I like create?
There's a lot of creativity inthat space too.
I've been playing with likelaying in the fertile void and
like, because I, towards the endof the year, it comes up that I

(10:00):
, you know, I feel a little bitmore burnout.
I'm like how can I nourishmyself and get ready for the
year but also honor the seasontoo?
and lean into and sitting in thefertile void Because I love
Abraham Hicks and I think you dotoo I've heard some places
where you listen to things inthe morning, and some of the

(10:20):
things that I listened torecently was like doing nothing
is doing something, and that isgetting in receptive mode to.
You know, help bring in some ofthe things that are already in
your vortex, and I'm like Ineeded to hear that and I just
needed to sit and journal orjust like lay there and not do
anything until something comesup and like inspires me anything

(10:45):
until something comes up andlike inspires me.

Yeah, like not looking in our outer world, but
going within.
Yeah, I listened to AbrahamHicks.
Pretty much every morning whenI wake up she has like these
little under 15 minute cartoon,cartoony videos that ar e on
YouTube and I put that onwhichever one YouTube's
algorithm decides to pop up.
Right, because I listen to herso much.

(11:07):
There's always one that's thereand I'm like that's the one,
that's the one I need to listento.
But yeah, growing up with theconditioning of more is more and
doing is better, and I rememberbeing in college, going to
school full time, working sevendays a week, and telling my
grandpa aren't you so proud ofme?
I work seven days a week andI'm going to school full-time.

(11:30):
I wasn't like a straight Acollege student, but A's and B's
was doing really well and Iremember holding that as a
trophy.
But it was interesting because Ihave a group chat with my
family and my niece and mybrother and my niece's mom and
we always are just talking.
It's pretty much just all aboutmy niece Pictures, what she's

(11:51):
up to, updates from school, justall the things.
And she said something whereshe was like yeah, mom, I don't
want to go to that today.
It was like a Christmas parade.
I just need to stay home andrest.
I just want to rest.
And I was like, yes, I lovethat.
And I wrote in the chat.

(12:12):
I was like, yes, I love thatshe knows what she wants and
needs.
I love that in her generation,where she's out in our family
line, that's available to her,because for us it wasn't.
It was just like let's go lineit up, knock it down, wake up
Saturday, do your chores, getthings done, don't be lazy, get

(12:33):
to work.
And I just love that.
She knows that at the wise ageof six years old.
That is incredible, I love it.

What a good Like, what a good role model and
just like to have herunderstanding of what she needs
and wants to thrive at that age.
It kind of reminds me of astory that came up for me
recently and interesting.
So like yesterday was my, itwould have been my dad's 71st

(13:05):
birthday and he died in 2013.
And there's been a lot of likeinteresting experiences, like
whether it was with plantmedicine, psychedelics, with
ketamine therapy.
There are a lot of differentthings.
But I say you mentioned NABA,like I'm doing a core, a course

(13:28):
in there and I say it's going tobe doing about writing and
writing a type of you're makinga course I thought you meant you
were doing one.
Okay, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, Iknow but and so, anyways, it's
like basically the what I'msaying, um, I had always kind of
similar to you.
You know, I felt like I, if Iget that A's, I A's on a roll,

(13:48):
then, um, my dad loves andaccept me.
I got money.
It was like, uh, you know,bonus or or something like that.
And so I point out this littlesheet, this little um, I gotta,
I gotta just show you, causeit's like so special for me, um,
but it's a special like littlegroup, that of questions that my
dad did and, um, I'm tellingyou that, uh, stories basically

(14:16):
have the um, the power toincredible, um, impact and trans
, um, I can't think of the wordright now.
Cover time, like, okay,basically, he gave me this
freaking.
I can't think right now I'mhaving like such a big heart and

(14:42):
brain fart right now.
Jesus, wow, talk about somelike brain farts, okay, so,
anyway, I had like my wholeentire life thought that I had
to act in like this, and so Ifound that like I was like
shopping and um, or likeperusing through this like book,
um, and the book says, forthose of you listening, it's a

(15:05):
book that says my dad right yeah.
It says, like my dad, hisstories, his words, and I had
always wanted his story, to knowmore about him.
He was like, very reserved, buthe gave me this and it was one
of the best gifts that I've everowned.
It's probably like one of mymost private and prized
possessions.

(15:25):
Like what the hell is going onwith me?
My eye and now my the eye quitsTalking about messy.
I feel messy right now.

Okay, Messy in the moment.
Anyway, I'm here and I'm doingit anyway.

I love you, dad, anyway, okay, so basically
it talks about asking him one ofthe best things in his life,
that he was like the most proudof his life, and um, and he
basically said that, um, it wasthe day that you were, that you
were born, that you and your dador you and your brother were
born, and I take that as likewow, like my whole life I was

(16:03):
working for him to be proud ofme, but it was something that I
didn't have to earn.
And so, like this little bookwas so healing and like it just
showed how stories can transcendtime basically Because, like it
did, I didn't have thatreaction when I first read this,
like however many years ago,like 11 years ago, but today or

(16:24):
like a month or two ago, I waslike bawling when I read it.
This, like however many yearsago, like 11 years ago, but
today or like a month or two ago, I was like bawling when I read
it.
I was like it was such a bigepiphany, just like I didn't
have to earn it, versus likewhat I thought you know before,
and I was like, oh, wow, that'sa good way for me to, you know,
move forward.

Yeah, you existing was the proudest moment, like
you, being here was all theenoughness that could ever been
needed.
Did he make this book for you,leading to the end of his life?
Did he already make it?
I don't know all of that storyFeel free to share whatever you
want.

No, I think it's beautiful because I gave
him the book, because I'm likeyou're going to tell me one way
or another, I'm going to findout these stories, some of your
life, what's going on because hewas like way more reserved and
so I gave him this book and thenhe took about six months and
then he gave it to me for mybirthday in like 2012.

(17:21):
And then you know the uh, lessthan a year later he died, but
it was just so like pivotal umto have that and like to have
like this healing little bookthat I've read so many times and
, to be honest, like you know, Iwas ready to read it, but I
made it as a Christmas presentone year for my brother Um, but
he still hasn't read the wholeentire thing yet and it's just

(17:42):
like more sensitive and you know, whenever he's ready to to go
through that and read it and andfeel those feelings and
emotions that can feel so messythat I have completely known for
so long in my life, when youknow he will be ready, when he's
ready, and that's somethingthat I've had to learn is that I
can't force someone to be readyor to feel a certain way or

(18:04):
that sort of thing.
It's like all on their owncertain timeline.

Yeah, there's the timing and what you're ready for
.
There's the timing and whatothers are ready for, and either
way, the story is there, right,like you said, one way or
another, I'm going to get it outof you, dad, or you're going to
tell me those things, and maybehe didn't have the words or the
availability of having thedialogue and conversation wasn't

(18:30):
how that story was supposed tocome out.
It was supposed to be like yousaid.
It took him six months to writethrough it and you've decided
to go through it.
Maybe your brother not yet, butthat's so beautiful, and I've
been getting the targeted ads onInstagram for my mom's store.

(18:52):
It's called Mom Tell Me yourStory and Dad Tell Me your Story
, and I think those are so coolbecause we learn so much about
ourselves now when we learn thestories of those before us, like
all of our ancestors, whetherit's our parents, grandparents,

(19:12):
great-grandparents, and we getto see, maybe, where our mess or
, like I like to call it,masterpiece, came from, or like
were there any things that youlearned from your dad's story
that helped you like unpack or,um, untighten some of the knots

(19:35):
that were in your life?

You know, maybe not necessarily from the
book, um, definitely fromlearning about my grandfather,
though.
He died very early.
I never met him in person.
He kind of had a violent death.
My dad was only 14 whenever hedied.
But I chatted with mygrandmother.
My grandmother's still aliveand I feel so lucky and blessed
that she's 94, still with it,still drives, is open to sharing

(20:00):
these different aspects andthere's a big piece For a long
time.
Like I, I have a littlewitchiness in me and for a long
time I didn't want to own it ortake ownership because I didn't
want people to think I was crazy, and really for me that felt
like I'm intuitive, I can readsituations.
Good, maybe that's acombination of trauma, maybe
that's a combination of, youknow, hyper independence or

(20:21):
whatever, and but anyway, um, Ilearned that he had actually
gone to, like um differentpsychological facilities, um,
for you know what they?
I don't know exactly what hisdiagnosis was, but I think that
he could feel, um and had a deepsensitivity, um, or felt strong
emotions in certain ways, andback then, like they didn't

(20:42):
really know how to handle it orwhat the best treatment option
was.
So I know he did like some um,what is it?
Shock treatment, therapy, andum, and so I'm like luckily I
don't have to do that today, butlike it just kind of showed me
that he was like also veryemotional, um, and maybe he
didn't handle it in all theappropriate ways or like healthy

(21:04):
, conscious conversations orstuff like that, or didn't know
how to recognize or feel theemotions or get permission or
that sort of thing.
But I definitely resonate withhim feeling super emotional and
I kind of definitely believethat one of my greatest
superpowers is sensitivity, butit can also be one of the
biggest challenging things to dois like feeling so deeply.

(21:27):
It's something that I numbedfor a long time.
It's definitely part of thepiece or element that I resonate
with.
Feeling messy sometimes andthat's what I've leaned into a
little bit recently is that Ican show up messy or when I feel
emotional, I can demonstrateand have like tears online, like
that's okay and in fact I feellike it gives permission for

(21:48):
other people to be emotion.
There was a call also thatAustin, I think, mentioned, on a
Nava call, which I love thecommunity and I'm so grateful
that, like we, met through thiscommunity, like it's so cool.

Same If all that came out of it was that I met
the people that I have met.
Like if all of it disappearedtomorrow not that it will, you
know, it's going to the moon butlike that is the best part the
people I've met and us embracingthat mess together.

For sure.
And, like he mentioned, youknow that the achievements and
all that stuff help inspirepeople, Like, whether it's, you
know, creating this business orcoaching or having a podcast or,
um, you know, and inspiringsomething or another, a book,
whatever it is but it's like sothe mess or the humanness that
actually like creates therelatability.

(22:37):
Um and that is just sobeautiful, like meeting people
on, like you know, connectivitylevels and um, and that we're
all in this together, versuslike kind of like a pedestal or
something similar like that.
And so I just love thatperspective too.

Yeah, yeah, the humanness, which is the full
spectrum of emotions and feelsand highs and lows or whatever
you want to call it.
And I feel like and I knowwe're kind of both in that
season of unapologeticallyexpressing the mess and

(23:16):
metabolizing the mess within ourown spiritual wellbeing and
stuff, and there's an element ofsafety that I believe needs to
be there.
Yeah, I just got full bodygoosebumps when I said that that
needs to be there in order toexpress the mess, because I

(23:38):
moved to Utah a year and a halfago.
Before that I was back inCalifornia because COVID
happened.
Before that I was in Austria,stuck in my apartment, couldn't
leave, and then before that wasworking in a position where
there was no time for feels.
I was in a different countryevery single week.

(23:59):
I was the face of the company.
I remember having a conversationwith my friend Sylvia she was
on TV a lot too, so was I thatwe couldn't cry because if we
cried the next day our eyeswould be puffy.
And then you got to go on TV.
We didn't know.
And I need to talk with herabout this again because we

(24:19):
talked about it about how it'slike yeah, there's emotions
there to express, but as soon aswe unleash the sprinklers, what
do you do?
And it's action time, and I wason camera every single day for
seven years, like every singleday.
And so, anyways, now recentlybeing in Utah for over a year,

(24:40):
feeling so safe, physically,emotionally, financially,
spiritually, right, and thenI've been doing Dr Erin
Pollinger's manifesting magiccourse that she did and I
laughed because I told her I'mlike, erin, that shit's like
Jumanji, like you cannot notfinish it.
So, anyways, in this courseyou're working with the womb

(25:01):
space and the feminine andexpressing all parts of that
right.
We think feminine energy islike loving and nurturing and
kind it is, but there's alsorage and there's warrior spirit
in that and there is lionessenergy.
And so over the last month orso, especially after finishing

(25:23):
the Push Catch Detox, I wastalking with Austin and I was
like I'm not sure if I feel good, I just unleashed a lot.
But now I'm realizing like, oh,that's because for the first
time in a long time, you feelsafe.
You have the time to land.

(25:44):
I love that spirit about me ofbeing go, go, go and being
determined.
I am relentless and tenacious.
I'll identify with those words,but I've also been empowered to
pump the brakes a little bittoo.
When we're in that place ofsafety, I feel like that's where
the masterpiece loves to be,and that's been wild.

I love that and I love that.
The safe, that you havepinpointed the safety element
too.
Have there been any messierrageful practices that help you
kind of unleash it, since thatsafety is there?

Yeah, expressing it you know like crying
hysterically, screaming,crawling on the ground, moving
in a very I love it.
Yes, like in my.
I mean yeah, I mean whateverFly on the wall would know
what's going on in here.

(26:49):
Whatever, I'm not filmingmyself and posting that on
social media.

No, you don't have to, it's for you.

Yeah, or like there's been times where, after
a long day of leading my team, Icome in and I just collapse to
the ground and sob and mourn andmoan and it's like there's a
part of me, like you said, thatI had numbed for so long and I

(27:15):
also think too, it wasunconscious.
It was like that door was shutand locked but I didn't even
know where that door was.
Then you start to know wherethat door is and then you're
kind of avoiding it or openingit just a little bit and peeking
in real quick and then shuttingthe door.
But now I just feel like, yeah,that needs to come up, that

(27:38):
needs to be expressed.
And I can't remember who it was.
A friend of mine, anyways, wassad and I had mentioned to my
mom like, oh, yeah, I'm going togo spend time with this friend
because they're sad.
And she was like oh, why arethey sad?

(27:59):
And I was like because they'resad, I don't know.
I didn't ask why they were sad.
Sadness sometimes has to comeup and I'm going to go hold
space for that person whilethey're sad.
It didn't occur to me.
Just asking people what they dodoesn't really occur to me.
It just to me is very surface,but I realize, and it's nobody's
fault, or it's not my mom'sfault, whatever but it's like we

(28:24):
never ask or have concern whensomeone's happy or joyful or all
good and everything's fine.
But why does it have to besomething's wrong or seen as
like a bad thing, that you'resad or uncomfortable or
something's going on?
I didn't even think to ask theperson oh, you're sad, cool,
I'll be there.
What do you need?
You want to talk about it?
You want to hug?

(28:44):
Do you just want to be sad?
You know, but now I'm reallyseeing this, the place that all
the emotions have to take.

I think that's so important.
I love that you're doing it foryourself too.
It's like you don't have to likeI mean, there's some people I
know that do record like the therage rituals or something, and
and to me it's like you know, ifit's being curious where that's
coming from, you know, or forthem like, but I also love that
you're keeping it sacred andhonoring that for yourself.
I did something recently I'mpart of, like this pleasure

(29:14):
priestess group and she had aguest teacher come in and we did
a rage ritual and, um, so oneof the things is like a song of
rage where we're like you know,screaming either into a pillow
or, like you know, humping apillow, or bashing a pillow, you
know, into the bed or whateverit is, or like punching or all
these things.
You know the air, like allthose things.

(29:35):
And then it was a song of griefand then, and like a reeling
allow us to feel that as welland then it was like, and then
we tapped into like a sensuality.
So there was like a song oflike, sensual, so like moving
from that I'm like, wow, it wasvery empowering.
But I just think that you know,there's so much also
conditioning around, or orespecially about, about being a
woman, right, being a good girl,or things like that and like

(29:58):
for me, I know for part of myjourney recently, I had
defaulted like to being, orbeing some of that more good
girl, because I knew that wasaccepted, loved and all those
things, and so it actuallyproduced a lot of anxiety.
Um so much so anxiety, um,thought patterns that didn't

(30:19):
feel like me so much, where Iwas, like you know, pulling into
my garage and like having likesuper, like suicidal ideation
type of thoughts.
I'm like what is this?
This is not like I got to getsome help.
And so I, you know, saw ittherapy.
I thought I saw it ketamineassisted therapy, which helps,
like you know, neural pathwaysand all that jazz, totally like

(30:40):
life-changing experience.
And then so one session, orafter one session, or doing an
integration session with mytherapist, she was like do you
think that part of your anxietycould have been from repressing
your wild woman?
And it just like clicked.
I was like, oh snap, like I, Itotally was repressing this,
this part of me, and like how,and then that's, and that's also

(31:02):
a part of I guess.
Like you know, in a way I gotto switch the viewpoint of like
this anxiety is bad to like thisit's my body showing me how I
can show up, or showing it'slike pulling, like listen to me
please.
I am wanting to be expressed insome way form or fashion, like
you are not being your mostauthentic self type of thing.

(31:23):
And so how are?
we going to get you to like tobe that again?
Um, cause I, you know, fallenback into a typical pattern,
like whether it was like withofferings that I was offering
the world, you know differentrelationships, that sort of
thing.
Um, and so I would say, likethere's so much condition around
being that good girl and I'mnot a good girl I can be.

(31:43):
I can still be kind and stillbe wild or have those things
kind of like.
I can be messy and kind andwild or unapologetic, those
sorts of things likeconditioning of you know not

(32:05):
wanting to upset people or havecertain hard conversations, or
that you know she'll lose loveor something, or has to show up
in a certain manner.
And that's shifted because we'vehad conversations or
opportunities to haveconversations.
So you know, in some ways, likemy own journey has also
repaired our relationship orinspired her to have those
difficult conversations.

Yeah, to see what that looks like or what that
could be.
You get to be an example and,yeah, oftentimes those emotions
are there to teach us somethingand to tell us something, but
we've been taught.
Like you said, you got to be agood girl, which means have it
all together and have a smileand calm down a little bit, or

(32:47):
calm down the emotions.

You're too much, you're not enough.

You got to be like this way, you got to be this.
There's so much I know and Ireally feel like I'm in a season
of yeah, surrender and trust,whatever's coming up, whatever
that next step might be.
I started meditating with DrJoe in 2018.
And I did it because I knewthat meditation was good for you
.
I didn't do it because Ithought it would get rid of

(33:19):
these anxious feelings.
I didn't really make thatconnection, thought it would
like get rid of these anxiousfeelings.
I didn't really make thatconnection right.
So, anyways, I used to havethese really big anxiety attacks
where my brain and body wouldjust like lose it and I'd be in
bed all day and it would happen,you know, maybe a couple times

(33:40):
a month, whatever.
And then it started to go down,like they started to go away,
and I remember being like, yes,like I conquered this right.
Well, lo and behold, come tosafety and security in Utah.
A couple months ago, I hadanother one and I remember
thinking like, oh, what am Idoing wrong that this is coming

(34:03):
back?
But I was talking to a friendof mine who was on the phone
with me while I was having thisanxiety attack and was just like
breathe through it, like big init.
We were just like together inthat, probably one of the most
beautiful, sacred experienceswith that person.
And then he goes what is ittrying to tell you?

(34:24):
Talk to it.
What is it trying to tell you?
And it was like that you don'tneed to do so much, that you
don't need to do everything.
That's not about who you are.
You're Lunden, you can just beand be okay.
And I'm laying in my bed talkingto the anxiety, having the
dialogue, and after that, andeven right in this moment,

(34:46):
talking to you, I was like wait,the goal was to not get rid of
the anxiety.
The goal is to understand itand to talk to it and to come
nose to nose with it and to havethat be okay and to get the
wisdom that you need from that,because you get wisdom from
joyful, amazing moments.
You also get wisdom when thingsare dark and scary and

(35:08):
uncomfortable, and that's whereI'm at now is messy is good, as
long as you're not picking upyour shit and throwing it at
someone else, right?
As long as you're not smearingyour mess over someone else,
right, like you know, as long asyou're not smearing your mess
over someone else, and I thinkthat's where the the place that

(35:29):
I'm at and what I'm excitedabout is like we all have a mess
, but we try to blame someone.
We try to be like well, I'm mad, who made me mad?
I'm sad, who made me sad, youknow, but it's actually like I'm
sad, who made me sad?
But it's actually like no, madand sad are part of it.
We have this beautiful wheel ofemotions and instead of blaming
something outside of us forcausing it, we're not taught

(35:52):
this, though, right, because Iwish there was a class on
talking to your emotions andunderstand gosh, that would have
been my favorite class.
But being able to be like okay,it's not about who did what to
me in order for me to feel thistype of way.
It's like this chemicalconcoction of this feeling and
emotion is here.
What is it trying to teach me?

(36:14):
And I think one time I heard itwas like a pastor talking about
like if you don't.
How did he say it?
Like if you don't.
I forget how he phrased it, butit's like, basically, like
don't bleed on someone who nevercut you.
It's okay to be messy and havea wound and be bloody, but it's

(36:37):
not somebody else's job to fixit or sew you up and don't bring
that mess to the next thing andbleed all over them.
You know, and I I love that.

You know that what that reminds me of is, as
you're speaking, is like, yeah,the moment if we're and I've
totally, like you, made me somad before and you know, and
maybe that's like me to look atthe trigger, you know, as my
teacher and that sort of thingbut yeah, I feel like the moment
that we do that, it's kind oflike pointing the blame or it's
like stepping into a victimhoodmentality versus, like that,

(37:08):
taking personal responsibilityof how we're feeling.
Because I feel like we canstill be messy, we can honor our
emotions and we can also honorother people's boundaries, we
can be respectful, we can bekind and that sort of thing.
And also it's like, hey, if youneed a little space for me,
sometimes I'm like I just need alittle little distance, a
little time to really like getto how I feel.
I don't want to ever, I don'twant to say anything, you know,

(37:29):
impulsively that hurts someonefeelings or that isn't like you
know, my deepest truth of themoment.
Like maybe I need to go journalsomething or just like sit with
myself and my emotions for asecond and I can now voice that,
versus just like, peace, I'mgone, and so I think that that's
just kind of like thevictimhood and personal

(37:50):
responsibility, because I thinkthere's so much power in taking
ownership and having thatpersonal responsibility.
But there is a lot ofresponsibility.
There's a lot of freedom,because I believe that's how we
start to co-create our lives andthe lives that we want, but it
is also a lot of responsibility.
There's a lot of freedombecause I believe that's how we
start to co-create our lives andthe lives that we want.
Um, but it is also a lot ofresponsibility to say that like,
okay, I am the commondenominator in all of my

(38:12):
relationships and all of mysuccesses and all of my failures
.
Like when I showed up, when Ididn't show up, it was the
common denominator was me.
And so, like I learned thatwhenever I noticed a pattern and
certain characteristics that Iwas dating different people and
I was like, wait a second, it'slike this in a different form or
this in a form, but the commondenominator is me.

(38:34):
So I got to get real withmyself and ask myself questions
and that sort of thing too.

Yeah, what are you attracting?
And I love the wordresponsibility.
I love words in general becauseI love communication and that's
what I coach on.
But responsibility is responseability.
Your ability to respond Lovethat and so, yeah, it's your
responsibility.
But you also have that responseability and instead of reacting

(39:02):
or, like you said, you made memad or all the things.
And even though I coach on thisstuff, I make mistakes all the
time.
Right, like, I ask for do-overs, I apologize.
And that's kind of where theconversation with you and I
started, where we were like,yeah, and even Jen Reno, who is
one of our mutual friends in ourNava community, we're talking

(39:22):
after this for the podcast.
But she called me after I didthat last podcast of like, oh,
you can be messy and right, likeI can be a messy, fucked up
communicator, mess up and stillcoach on communication and still
show up, right, and so, knowingthat, like you don't have to
have it all together in order tobring your story, bring your
gift and Brene Brown said thisone time, I think in an

(39:45):
interview I watched is like,instead of you made me mad or
you did this, she says the storyI'm telling myself is yes.
And most recently too, inrelationships and other things,
it's come up where it's like thestory I'm telling myself is
that I'm not good enough for youand that I'm not.

(40:06):
You know, and getting to theroots of that story is huge.
And I know that's your jam.
I know you're a story doula,which I would love to hear.
I mean, I get the idea of it, Ikind of have an idea, but this
is not something that you like.
You know.
Go to college to get your storydoula degree, you know.

(40:28):
So, like to me, the stories areeverything.
It's never really about what'shappening.
It's about the story thatyou're telling about what's
happening, it's about what youmake it mean.
And so, yeah, I want to knowmore about what it means to be a
story doula and the stories wetell ourselves.

Yeah, I know, and so it's kind of like a
twofold really, like the storieswe tell ourselves.
Well, okay, we are meaningmaking machines and so the
stories we tell ourselves, wecan turn everything into a
meaning that works for usinstead of against us.
And so I see, it's like you canlive the story that you want to

(41:12):
like you're the author of yourlife canvas by being very
selective with the words and thelanguage that you use.
I totally believe words arespells and that's why I don't
listen to certain music, that'swhy I don't say certain terms.
I'm like I'm not going to beprogrammed with that belief.
You know I'm very careful, um,so that's one aspect of it.

(41:36):
And then the other aspect isthat I there's so much freedom
and story ownership and I reallygot to see after writing my own
book how everything worked forme and how certain traumas or
impacts influence certaindecisions in life, Whether it
was sexual abuse, whether it wasverbal abuse, whether it was

(41:58):
grief or pain, loss, chaos, likeall these different things.
Like writing my story helped me.
Writing my old helped me livemy new.
It just like gave me adifferent perspective.
Bird's eye lens yeah, I like,loved it.
And then it's like interestingand doula to me is like you know
someone who helps birth theirstory, birth something into the

(42:18):
world, whether it's a baby orsomething like that.
To me it's a creative project,can also have some of those same
characteristics maybe lessbreastfeeding and less crying,
maybe not less crying all thetime, but I'd always loved
stories and imagination.
And then so when I had theepiphany that I wanted to help

(42:40):
people birth their stories intoa way whether that's a book or
coming on my podcast orsomething like that I burst into
tears and started crying andhad full-body chills.
I was like I guess I got tofollow that feeling and now it's
also evolved into helpingpeople live their authentic
expression or the story theywant to live.

(43:01):
And then once I had thatepiphany in Um and so like store
, and then once I had thatepiphany in Costa Rica, I was
like, oh snap, I was like duh,I've always loved stories my
entire life.
Of course it would be stories.
It was like kind of like one ofthese like moments and I'd gone
to school for like journalismand studied acting and writing
at UCLA, UCLA extension in LAand and all kinds of stuff.

(43:22):
So it's.
I was like oh duh, took likebook coaching stuff too.
But yeah, and so I just reallyfeel like the more people are
aware that they have that power,that they can create their a
new story, then then they'llfeel more empowered and live and
live a happier life, and thathas like tons of ripple effects
too, they can be living examplesor walking possibilities of

(43:47):
what's possible, you know, fortheir family, for their loved
ones, for their ancestors.
You touched on ancestors earlier, and so I think, like both you
know, older ancestors and thoseto come can be inspired or like
set a new pathway for theirfamily.

I love what you said about how, when I chose to
rewrite the old, I was allowedto rewrite the new, or however.
You said that I'm going to haveto go back and re-listen, but I
love that, and I love the ideaof birthing a story, especially
for women.

(44:27):
We can get stuck in the loop,thinking that the only thing we
can birth is a human, and I'veworked with clients who have had
a lot of guilt and shame andfrustration around being at an
age where they can no longerhave kids and, whether they
wanted them or not, there's somepart of them that feels like

(44:50):
they let themselves or eventheir parents down for not
giving them grandkids, et cetera.
I don't have kids and you canbirth a whole lot through that
creative, sacral energy,including the story about not
having kids and being able tostep into your power, and so I

(45:14):
love that idea because we allhave a story within us to be
birthed.
We all have a purpose within usto be birthed and gifted to the
world.
It doesn't have to be a human,and I know I have a lot of moms
that listen, because a lot ofthe episodes with moms do super
well, but I also know there's alot of not moms that are
listening too, and so, yeah, Iwant to talk a little bit about,

(45:37):
like, birthing your story andmaking that the creation that
you bring to the world Well, andin some ways I experienced
total postpartum depressionafter it came out and also, I
tell people it was kind of likeempty.

It was the day when my book was published, it
was the day my child left thenest and it was also the day
they were born, and so it waslike very interesting, and there
was a big moment of like, okay,I've done this, now what?
So there was like someinteresting, like grief too,
that I'll never get to have thisexperience for the first time
again, and so it was reallyinteresting that there were some

(46:18):
like what I postpartum bookbirthing or story birthing that
came to.
And I am totally an advocate ofsomeone following their own
inner directives, because theworld always is telling us what
to believe, what to do, andwhile some of it is valuable
that you know how we can makepositive changes and impacts in

(46:39):
our lives and in the lives ofothers, but sometimes a lot of
it is conditioning or how we,how others, think we should
behave.
Like the having children thingI think that's a big one, like
I'm 36.
Same, about to be 30.
Yeah, and so I'm like I'll be 37next year, and so a lot of the
times, especially, I grew up ina small town.
I've even felt that pressurebefore, like when are you going
to have kids?

(46:59):
Like my dad, I would love tosee some grandkids before I go,
and so I think that's big.
I also am like totally anadvocate for giving mothers and
stay at home moms like the honorthat they deserve, cause that's
gotta be one of the hardestjobs in the world is raising a
quality human.
So I'm like, yes, good on you,but we can also be so maternal

(47:20):
in other ways, towards ourselves, towards nieces, nephews,
towards projects, the storiesthat we want to birth in the
world.
I mean, I totally find, likeyou know, worth and honor in
that too.
I'm going to switch my leg uphere.
Okay, did your leg fall asleep?
Yeah, I was like I need to moveit.

Last weekend, when we were supposed to originally
record our podcast, I drove outto go make candles I can say it
because by the time this episodecomes out it'll be after
Christmas.
I went to go make a candle formy mom for Christmas Homemade
candle with this girl, nicolewho's amazing and I made one for
myself.

(48:03):
I made one for my mom.
Such a beautiful experience.
But we were just talking andshe was like what's your podcast
going to be on?
And I was like, oh, I'm talkingwith this girl, Kristin.
This was before we decided toreschedule, but I was like I'm
talking with this girl, Kristin.
She's a story doula and shehelps people birth their stories

(48:25):
in book form or expression orhowever.
I mean, this was my first timeasking you specifically about it
, but I know a thing or two.
So I was like story doula, Ikind of get the idea.
And she was like, oh my gosh,I'm so excited to listen to that
episode.
Will you send it to me when itgoes live?
Because I've been writing thisstory and I feel stuck.

(48:47):
So I want to talk to the personthat's listening.
That's like her, who's writingthe story and feels stuck.
Is there something to learnfrom the stuck.
Should we expect that there'sgoing to be the stuckness in the
story birthing process?
Is should we expect thatthere's going to be the
stuckness in the story birthingprocess?
What would you say to someonewho's like I have that story to
get out or I've been doing it?

but now I'm at a spot where I'm just like, meh
, I'm not sure what the nextbest step is.
Well, there's a few things,because I think that well, one I
have.
I'd probably have a lot ofquestions for her and like, like
, where are you at in yourprocess?
Have you ever outlined, um?
Have you um set a clearbeginning and a clear end?
Um, especially if it's apersonal story, like a memoir,
or a reflective story, somethinglike that Sometimes it's memoir

(49:39):
to is not every single detailof your life.
It's usually a set period oftime or an arc of transformation
.
So if it's like this trial orsomething that you went through,
what scenes would paint thebefore, like the heart of the
mess or the chaos, or before youlearned a lesson, or before
something you know, what's the,the climax of you learning it,

(50:00):
what scenes paint that?
And then, to the end, whatpaints the resolution and who
you are today, kind of likesomething like that is like an
easy way to describe it fromsomething to something else.
I would also get curious, like,if it's resistance per se, like
, is there, you know, a fearthat you're not acknowledging,
or that you feel stuck, or isthere a certain way that you can

(50:23):
become inspired again,sometimes maybe even just like
writing three different ways toopen a book or to finish a book
or something like that.
I would say, just be verycurious about the resistance,
because a lot of times theresistance wants us to pause or
to not.
And I am a huge fan of StevenPressfield and he wrote a book

(50:44):
called the War of Art and hebasically says that the more
resistance that we feel to ourproject, the greater it is to
the evolution of our soul.
And so when you feel thatresistance.
I'm like when you feel thatresistance and you feel it, it
means that you're onto somethinggood, and then you just got to
keep applying the ass to thechair and like writing, even if

(51:04):
it's like a sentence or aparagraph or something like that
.
I also highly recommend likegetting a shitty first draft out
of the way and like feelingthat and celebrating that and
then and then going back withyou know, maybe taking as much
time as you need, taking abreather, going back with fresh
eyes before you start editingprocess or recruit someone, and

(51:25):
then you know we also have a lotof AI tools and I am like I
have some hesitations becauseI'm such a creative and like I
feel like stories are sopersonal that, um, they can
definitely be used as a tool.
If you're stuck, like, give methree different options of how
to open this scene.

(51:45):
Okay, cool.
At the same time, there, I dofeel like there's nothing that
will replace like Austinmentioned on my podcast our
unique vibratory signature andmedicine that we've gained from
all of our life experiences andthe things that we've learned
along the way, and so that can'tbe replaced.
So you've got to actually, likeyou know, pour that in through

(52:06):
the page.
I also find like finding my flowphysically, mentally,
spiritually, emotionally helpsme before I sit down and write.
So, whether that's like movingmy body, whether it's dance or
going for a walk or a workout,whether that's repeating certain
affirmations into my mind, oreven affirmations where I ask

(52:26):
myself a question like why do Ifeel so inspired?
Why do I always meet the rightpeople at the right time?
Or, you know, like you know,words flow through me on to the
page.
Or like I'm a vessel forcreative awakenings, or I'm a
vessel for whatever shift youwant your book to have on the
world.
And so just like really I love,like just you know, even two.

(52:49):
First, like sometimes Ameditation will benefit my
mental health, my emotionalhealth.
A walk does my mental, myphysical, my emotional.
So I do that sometimes too andrecommend that to people that I
work with too.

I like that.

Why am?

I full of ideas.
Why do my ideas effortlesslyjust go onto the plate with ease
?

Why am I such a gifted rider and I feel like
when we use that certain tone ofvoice and then our brains start
looking for the answers to thequestions that we're asking, and
there's so many times whereI've asked myself like why am I
so abundant?
It's those random things likethe person buying my coffee in

(53:35):
the line ahead of me, or youknow, why am I so, especially
the?
Why do I always meet the rightpeople at the right time?
I have met some people in someinteresting ways and so I'm like
interesting, cool, It'll be funto see where that goes.

Yeah, that's.
I love that question why do Imeet the right people at the
right time?
I've never asked myself thatquestion and I've seen that with
my eyes wide open in my ownlife so many times where it's
like I'm excited for that personthat can help me with this to
show up.
I think that's more thelanguage I've used before rather

(54:13):
than the question, and that'skind of that season in Surrender
too, where I know that there'sother people that I know I need
to collaborate with and what Iwant to create and what I want
to do next, that I'm excited forthem to show up.
I'm excited to witness that.
I think that's the other side ofthe coin, if you will, of

(54:34):
thinking you have to do, do, doand do all the things and go,
look for the person.
And it's like actually there'sbeen so many times where I've
met someone in a plant medicineceremony, in a teepee with five
people, or walking down the road, or just decided to get off at
that gas station real quick,even though in my head I was

(54:57):
going to go to the next one andmeet this person.
Or get off and go to this dinereven though there's a long wait
.
Oh cool, there's a spot at thebar for one person.
I'm going to sit right there.
Who's next to me?
Right?
Like so many cool moments likethat.
Totally I've had a wreck.

A wreck brought me together with someone
cool.
A what?

A wreck, oh, a car wreck yeah.

I was in an Uber going to the airport one
time and they sideswiped anotherblack SUV and it ended up being
someone really dope and weended up sharing a well-known
famous comedian.
We ended up being a, I mean,like a well-known famous
comedian.
We ended up being on the sameflight sharing a mimosa and like

(55:43):
talking about writing and justlike having this really cool
moment and then getting on theflight and coming to Austin.
So it was really cool.
But yeah, like the sitting atthe bar one and yeah, it's not
necessarily something that wehave to control, it's just being
open to those experiences andallowing them to flow, or like
the surrender aspect that you'rementioning.

And when that happens, it just makes me more
excited for the next person Imight meet, and not so much of
like, oh, what can this persondo for me?
Just like what can the factthat our or what can we create
because our paths cross?
Or like, oh, now I'm thinkingin my head I need to go tell
Nicole to connect with you,because you guys would be the

(56:21):
perfect connection if she'sfeeling stuck in her book.
Cool, I met her through Becca,who I've done combo with.
I met Becca because of myneighbor.
I met my neighbor because mybest friend came and met my
neighbor at the park, right, allall these things where, when
you look back at the history ofyou, it's like it's so much more

(56:41):
divine than we're conditionedto believe.

So true, and allowing space for that divinity
to happen.
I know I've had some controlissues in the past, even
sometimes going back to mess andmy dog coming into my life.
I'm like, oh, he has a bigspiritual initiation and
releasing control, you know, orcleanliness or like that kind of

(57:07):
like OCD ish like nature.
So it's been an interestingride and oh yeah, just like yeah
, I, when I came, went to Egypt.
I came back and I was followinglike what I say is the
butterflies, like okay, I'm justgoing to see kind of what life
presents and what opportunitieshappen.
And then a friend of mineinvited me to go to like a yoga,

(57:27):
sound healing place, and thenthat turns out that's where I
met Veronica and I was like, oh,this is nourishing.
I went back a couple of weeksand then we grabbed coffee and
then we talked about Nava andall these things and so which
led to the in-person, which ledto meeting you, and I always
loved your energy, and so it'slike interesting, like how
things unfold when we don't tryto like make it look a certain

(57:50):
way.

And one more thing I want to talk about.
And then we can, yeah, wrap upand land the plan.
I could talk to you forever.
But something I do a lot withmy clients is written exposure
therapy.
I don't know if you've heard ofthat before.
It's called WET, w-e-t.
There's research on it.
You could check it out.
But what you do is you pick aspecific moment in time of a

(58:18):
story you want to rewrite, andit's five sessions, and you
write the first time whathappened, the next time what
happened.
You just don't stop writing.
You write the what happened,what happened, what happened.
And then the last two sessionsyou write the because, because
this happened, here's what I'mgoing to make.
It mean moving forward, right,and when I first started

(58:40):
researching it and then doing itmyself and working on that, I
was like, oh, it's like thestory is a junk drawer.
And when you start writing itover and over and over and over
and over again, you're taking itout.
You're taking that old cord andyou're putting it with the
cords.
You're taking the scissors thathas the corroded lipstick
connected to it and separate.

(59:02):
You know, like just organizing,right, we can't erase what
happened to us and that's notthe point right.
We can't make that bad thing goaway.
You know you talked aboutlosing your dad and we didn't
dive a ton into that, but likesexual abuse and I had Elisa
Marie on my podcast last week,who has gone through so much
stuff and I think about myhistory with my family and me

(59:24):
choosing the route that I wantedto go, and I remember for so
long I wanted an apology, Iwanted someone to admit they
were wrong, I wanted someone totake ownership for what I had
experienced in my life.
And then when I started workingthrough understanding written
exposure therapy and all of that, it was like no, the point is
not to delete that, it's to notbleed on all over everybody else

(59:45):
and it's to be like, oh, lookat that scar, that's from when I
did X, y or Z and here's what Ilearned from it.
And so I feel like writtenexposure therapy is so good to
organize the mess, organize thefile cabinets of all the stories
.
So then you know it's like Ican pull the story and be like
when my grandpa wanted to disownme for my decisions.

(01:00:07):
Let me tell you more about thisversus me going into
relationships thinking I'm notgood enough and I have to prove
myself and then acting that outright, being able to write that
and I've worked with a lot ofclients on that, from little
things all the way to big things.
I always tell them whateveryou're willing to touch, I'm

(01:00:28):
willing to go there with you soyou can choose right, like if
it's you know, I mean yeahwhatever that is.
But, yeah, safety, totally thesafety.
The rapport you know whatyou've worked through, but I
want to talk about the power ofthe because.
So it's like that's what we'rehere to.
I believe to share with theworld is like we're going to
have the messy right, like meand Kristin today, if it hasn't

(01:00:53):
hit the nail on the head.
We use the hot ass messsometimes but like You're here,
you show up anyway.
Right, there's moments, likeyou said, horizontal days.
My best friend Allie calls themthat too.
She'll be like Lunden.
You need a horizontal day whereit's just like you know, and
that's okay, and being messy isokay, and having the hard

(01:01:15):
moments that things happen andyou lose people that you love,
and I know that in your bio Iread when I was kind of going
through some of the thingsyou've lost people to suicide.
So have I recently, and it'sjust a lot and that happened.
And because that happened,here's now what I get to make it

(01:01:37):
mean.

Kristin Birdwell (01:01:38):
Huge, huge catalyst.
Well, I feel like I didn't knowit was called that, but written
exposure therapy sounds a lotlike memoir writing.
Got it Because you go backseveral times and edit it and
it's like you see these lifeevents or pivotal life markers
and it shifts from somethingthat either happened to you or
da da, da da, to the because, tothe because.
Okay, oh, because that happened, I made this choice and then

(01:02:00):
this one led me to this choice,and then this one led me to this
choice where I finally chosemyself and feel freedom and
liberated and all that.
So it's just like aninteresting connection of the
dots and I would even say likethat, because of like, if I'm
going to plot or outline or makea timeline of a memoir or a

(01:02:21):
story, a lot of times I'm goingto make that timeline, um, and
it's because it's like onemoment and I give the prompt.
It's like this led to that orbecause of this, this happened
because of this.
This happened, um, andinternally and externally.
So it's like externally, likethe what happened, the event,
the who, what, when happenedbecause of this.
This happened, um, andinternally and externally.
So it's like externally, likethe what happened, the event,
the who, what, when, where, why,um.

(01:02:42):
And then internally, like theinterior life, the emotional
shift and it can be bigger,small events that could read a
book and this shifted this orbecause of this happened, or it
could be something moretraumatic and um, revisit that
too and like work on the,because I'm like through that
writing and editing process, itseems like you're getting a lot
of that exposure therapy andrepetition to like go into the

(01:03:02):
subconscious mind and reprogramyourself.
So that's interesting.
Now I'm like I want to lookinto written exposure therapy.
That's cool.

Lunden Souza (01:03:12):
Yeah, you'll love it.
You'll love it.
It's very yeah, I think it'svery different than talking
about it when you're writing itdown and you keep rewriting it.
I notice with myself and othersit's like you have all these
details and all the things andthen, slowly but surely, it's
like what's important to storeand make meaning of.

(01:03:34):
It's like now I had like twopages of things all over the
place.
Now I have like a paragraph,five or six sentences that just
I'm not beating around the bush.
This is exactly what happened.
This is how I felt.
This is right where it is, hitthe bullseye.
Okay, that's there.
That's clear.
Now I don't need to run aroundholding that flag, but I can now

(01:03:58):
write what I'm going to make.
It mean moving forward andthat's what I want to bring to
the world, and so that's what Ifeel like I'm birthing regularly
are my becauses.

Yeah, that process sounds like a fantastic
and beautiful way to helpextract the wisdom from the
wounds that happen.
And then I usually I keep thebecauses and I burn the stories.

You don't have to burn it, but I like I'm very
ritualistic when it comes tothose things.
I love fire, yeah, same.
I'm like, okay, what happeneddoesn't really matter, what am I
going to make?
It mean moving forward.
So I have this journal that hasa lot of because pages and then
a lot of pages ripped outbecause I'm like, okay, yeah, I
remember what happened, that'scool, let me burn that in my
toilet or outside or something.
And then I don't know that'swhat I like to do.

Well, yeah, because to me that's the truth
of the present moment.
I will say, though, that,revisiting some of mine, it was
also a permission slip to feellike some of the things that I
probably suppressed in like thecertain time, like with the
grief with my dad, or I didn'tfeel it to the capacity I felt
that I could then, but rewritingit gave me permission to feel
right the because, and releasethat old story and pattern, and

(01:05:08):
like I think it, you know, justlike it.
Also, I want to add one littlething about discernment for me
and the messiness.
It's like okay, am I avoidingshowing up because I feel messy,
or discerning is like, or am Iresisting showing up because I
need rest?
I feel like discernment andcuriosity is a big key for me.
On this whole messiness, onshowing up, on storytelling, on

(01:05:32):
helping people, those things arelike what I keep going back to.
I'm like do I need to hibernate, do or is?
Am I resisting being seen likewhat you know, just getting
curious?

yeah, what does the mess need?
I'm not sure.
Every day what's the mostnourishing?

yeah, oh for sure, yeah, and that's, and
honoring the truth of thepresent moment.

So good, I appreciate you.

I appreciate you honey.

Thanks for talking to me.
I love where all we went Fromour periods to our mess, to our
story, to our because, yes andso, yeah, we both need a little
heating pad.
Horizontal moment For sure.

That's exactly what I'm going to do.
I'm just going to go lay therefor a little bit, drink my water
and then reheat my heating pad.

Well, thank you, guys for listening.
Thank you for you, Kristin.
Thank you, thank you for you.
Thank you, thank you for you.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of Self Love
and Sweat, the podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode orwere inspired by it or something
resonated with you, do me afavor and share this episode

(01:06:58):
with a friend, someone that youthink might enjoy this episode
as well.
That's the ultimate complimentand the best way to make this
podcast ripple out into theworld of others, and also you
can leave us a review up to fivestars wherever you're listening
to the podcast.
Thank you so much for listeningand we'll see you at the next
episode.
I appreciate you.

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