November 12, 2025 • 24 mins
Most retirees don’t run out of love for life—they run out of cash flow. We sit down with Kevin Guttman, one of just 218 certified reverse mortgage professionals in the U.S., to unpack how today’s FHA‑backed reverse mortgages actually work, who they help, and why their reputation hasn’t caught up with reality. Kevin brings more than two decades of lending experience, nonprofit roots, and a people‑first approach to a topic crowded with myths and fear.
We walk through the modern safeguards that protect seniors—HUD counseling, non‑recourse rules, transparent fees—and explain the biggest misconceptions: you keep title, you can’t outlive the loan, and heirs still decide whether to sell or refinance. Kevin breaks the product into three clear use cases: making mortgage payments optional, accessing a flexible line of credit to handle rising costs or pay off debt, and purchasing a right‑sized home after 62 without taking on a monthly payment. Along the way, he shares powerful client stories, from a widow staying securely in place to an 84‑year‑old trading credit‑card groceries for peace of mind.
If you or a parent is weighing medical expenses, shrinking income, and a house full of locked equity, this conversation offers a practical framework. Learn how reverse mortgage proceeds interact with taxes, why most borrowers access roughly 35–45 percent of value, and how planning with life insurance and long‑term care riders can improve outcomes for heirs. Kevin also points to trusted resources—his consumer guide and short explainer videos—so you can learn privately before you decide.
Subscribe for more clear, human conversations on senior care and financial choices. If this helped you, share it with a family member and leave a review telling us what you still want to know.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Welcome back to Senior Care Academy.
Today's guest is Kevin Gutman.
Kevin is a senior mortgagebroker, reverse mortgage
specialist, and a three-timeAmazon best-selling author with
over 20 years of experience.
He's one of just 218 certifiedreverse mortgage professionals
nationwide, which is awesome.
He's known for his integrity,his transparency, and his people
(00:30):
for first approach.
He has over 105-star reviews andan A plus BBB rating.
Kevin helps senior homeownersmake confident and informed
financial choices.
And then outside of work, he's alifelong learner.
He has three master's degrees,and he's an avid Lakers fan,
world traveler, and dedicatedcommunity volunteer.
So I'm grateful to have you on.
(00:50):
Excited to chat, Kevin.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
Good to see you.
Thanks for having me today.
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Yeah.
First, I kind of want to askwhat got you into mortgages and
then reverse mortgages being oneof 218 out of literally tens of
thousands of mortgage officers,being able to do reverse
mortgages is really cool.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
Yeah.
You know, I grew up on a realestate home.
My dad was a real-term investor.
He actually trained new agents.
So from the time I was a littleguy, I was learning about real
estate.
And I spent the first 12 yearsof my career working for a
nonprofit.
I used to travel around thecountry and around the world,
raise money for people in thedeveloping world to have clean
water, medical clinics, schools,small business loans.
(01:33):
It was really great.
However, my wife and I have fivechildren.
I just needed to be home where Iwas traveling about half the
time.
And so I just kind of thought,well, I'm good at math.
I like helping people solvingproblems.
And so I got into the mortgageindustry.
And what I like about reversemortgages is uh they really
change people's lives.
I guess all mortgages do becausepeople who who own real estate
(01:57):
have a 44 times higher net worththan people that don't.
But when they get older, a lotof times they don't have enough
money.
So tapping into the equity intheir home actually allows them
to live the lifestyle theydreamed of and worked for their
whole life.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Yeah.
I think that's really cool.
And reverse mortgages for a longtime, I think, have a pretty bad
rap.
And you've now at this pointyou've helped countless seniors
navigate one of the biggestfinancial decisions of their
life, which is a reversemortgage.
And you love the Lakers, so I'mcurious if you have a fun little
analogy.
But if you if a reverse mortgagewere like a play in basketball,
what would it be?
(02:33):
Is it a pick and roll?
Is it full court press?
How would you define it?
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
You know, for the right person, it's really a slam
dunk.
And the reason I say that isbecause um I'd say 90% of people
don't have enough money.
Uh Fidelity just came out with astudy saying a 65-year-old
couple is going to need$172,000to pay for out-of-pocket medical
costs in retirement.
(02:59):
The average retirement lasts 18years.
Financial planners say to planon 30 because baby boomers are
younger, they're living longer,healthier.
So I'd say it's a slam dunk forthe right person.
It's not for everybody, but forthe right person that can really
change their life.
SPEAKER_00 (03:15):
Yeah, there's an interesting statistic out there.
I think it's like over 60% ofall medical expenses you'll pay
for in your entire life happenafter 65.
So and then the average lifespanin the US right now is 77.
So in the last 12 years of yourlife, you're spending over half
of everything that you'll spendon medical.
It's a it's an expensive kind oftime, it can be an expensive
(03:38):
time of life.
Um you've said that your missionis to simplify the home loan
process for seniors.
Um is there a piece of mortgagejargon, or specifically maybe um
reverse mortgage jargon that youwish you could just get rid of
because it's confusing peopleand not actually helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
You know, I thought about this um question.
What I see on the traditionalside is people chase the rate.
You know, rates come down andthey refinance.
And what they're doing isthey're resetting the clock
every time they're refining theclock.
SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
Yeah, when we uh bought our house, they said it's
like the date the rate thing orwhatever.
It's like the rate is high rightnow, but you can just refinance
whenever you want.
And yeah, it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
But when it becomes cyclical, when you're doing it
every few years, you're notreally getting ahead.
So that's one thing on thetraditional side.
On the other side, with reversemortgages, I think what I find
is it's important for peoplejust to be open to learn.
You mentioned at the beginninghow the programs evolved and
changed over the years, gottensafer for seniors.
(04:43):
And when people actually sitdown and learn about it, the
number one reaction is, okay,what's the catch?
This sounds too good to be true.
Because they're believing allthese myths on the internet that
are not true anymore, or they'rebelieving people like Dave
Ramsey and Susie Ormon, whoaren't licensed and don't
originate mortgages and reallydon't understand them.
(05:04):
And so I'd say do your ownresearch, do your own home, or
be open to learn about and seeif it could be something that
could help you.
SPEAKER_00 (05:11):
What is the biggest thing that's changed?
My understanding of reversemortgages, they used to have a
deadline, right?
Like you have a reversemortgage, and then if you lived
10 years after 10 years, they'relike, well, your loan is up, and
they kicked.
Is that the biggest thing that'schanged?
Or what's what's the biggesthurdle that you have to overcome
typically when talking to peopleabout reverse mortgages to help
(05:33):
get rid of their fear?
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Yeah.
So these are loans for primaryhomes.
People have to be at least 62.
They have to maintain it, paythe property taxes, insurance on
time.
If they do that, the term of theloan, get ready for this, 150
years of the youngest bone.
Oh my gosh.
In other words, you can'toutlive it, and people don't
live in the biggest myth I hearover and over every day is okay,
(05:57):
I know I've got to sign my houseover to the to the lender.
That's not true.
It's just like a regularmortgage.
So, like with any mortgage,you're untitled, you have a lien
against your home.
Same thing with the reversemortgage.
The difference is there's nopayment required with a reverse
mortgage.
Payment's optional, you can makea payment if you choose to, but
you don't have to.
And then, second, it's anon-recourse loan.
(06:19):
What that means is so everymortgage we've ever had in our
lives up to a reverse mortgagetime period, is what we're
personally liable for.
If we miss the payment, we get aphone call.
Hey, where's the money?
What happened?
With a reverse mortgage, thatdoesn't happen because there's
no payment required.
It's a non-recourse loan, whichmeans the only way the lender
gets paid back is at the endwhen the last person moves out
(06:41):
permanently through the sale orrefinance of the home.
So people say, I signed my houseover, and the reason that is
even a thing is from 1961 to1988, these loans were not
regulated.
So that did happen.
People did lose their homes,people did sign their house over
to the lender, but it hasn'tbeen that way for 37 years.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's interesting.
So now, um, yeah, nobody canoutlive that term.
And then basically it's not, Ithink that's something I just
learned.
I thought that it was that thebank in essence owned your
house, and then once you passed,it's like, okay, it's ours.
But it's to the point where ifI'm a if my mom gets a reverse
(07:28):
mortgage then and lives for 20more years, and then um at the
end of it, I can go and say, Iwould like to purchase this
house, or can we refinance itinto my name?
And all of a sudden it's atraditional mortgage again that
I'm paying down.
Um, but I get it, in essence,first writer refute, I begin to
say, okay, let's this is what wewant to do with the house.
Um and then with that, where thebank owns it, or not owns it,
(07:54):
but in this sense too, if my momsaid I don't want to buy the
house, but there is a hundredthousand dollars in equity, I'm
still able to sell it as ournext of kin and and recoup that
equity.
Wow.
Yeah, that's a lot more like alot more friendly than that
little couple decade period thateverybody's like, oh, that's
(08:14):
what it is.
And it's like, no, it's not.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
And what's happened over the years is the
government, it's agovernment-backed loan, FHA
backed, overseen by HUD.
Um, it's just gotten safer overthe years.
There's so many safeguards builtinto it because seniors are a
vulnerable population and thegovernment doesn't want them
taken advantage of.
So all the fees are transparent,they're set by the federal
government or by stategovernments, they have to do
(08:38):
third-party counseling with anindependent counselor.
Um, you know, you used to seethe loan paperwork stack, they
have to sign as a big stack.
Um, and all of it's to protectthe senior.
The other thing is they we welook for um that somebody's not
being taken advantage of.
Because a lot of times, sadly,it's a family member who's
taking advantage of a senior toget their equity.
(09:00):
So there's lots of safeguardsbuilt in to protect them.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
What speaking of families, do you ever run into
it where um like how often istheir adult children involved?
And do you have to overcomebeing like, well, that's my like
inheritance?
I don't know.
Like, I don't there are somepeople that are potentially
greedy and like I want to havethe$500,000 in equity when mom
passes and not$20,000 because$480,000 has been spent on her
(09:29):
living, you know?
Is that a thing or not really?
SPEAKER_01 (09:31):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Um, I've I've never had a umfamily member say that.
I've never heard that.
SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
Yeah.
But I have a friend who usesthis analogy, he's in the
business too, and he he's heheard a grandchild complaining
that grandma had um he got areverse mortgage and used up
some of her equity.
And he said, Well, let me askyou this.
Did grandma have a 401k?
Yeah.
What happened to that?
Oh, she spent it all.
(10:01):
Okay.
So was she able to come livewith you?
No.
Were you able to support her?
No.
Okay, so grandma didn't have alot of options.
She had to tap into her equityto be able to live, right?
Prices are going up.
The number one fear a senior hasis outliving their money.
And so the all this does is, youknow, we all have three buckets
(10:22):
of money we draw from, right?
There's investments, assets,wages.
And when you're retired, yourwages are really your your
pension or your social security.
Um and then assets aren'tliquid, right?
Real estate isn't liquid.
The only way we can access ourequity is three ways sell our
house, pay the six percent tothe realtors, uh, do a cash out
(10:45):
refinance or a home equity lineof credit, have a mandatory
payment, or do a reversemortgage, access some equity,
and not have a monthly payment.
So that's why I say for theright person that's a slam dunk,
when they truly understand howit works.
Um, I had a lady one time say,Well, I want to be sure there's
going to be equity left for mykids.
Well, you're only really able toborrow 35 to 45 percent.
(11:08):
So there's almost always equityat the end to be sure.
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
Especially if they if they sell it or refinance,
there's plenty.
And 45 percent of the medianhouse these days is still
hundreds of thousands.
And if you live within means,it's a decade of expenses
almost, you know.
So um so you grew up in realestate, we talked about how you
(11:35):
have three different master'sdegrees, which I think is super
cool.
Um what's something that schoolwasn't able to teach you uh um
about the mortgage world ormaybe the world in general that
you've been able to learnthroughout your career and your
experience?
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
I think the biggest surprise to me has been um
people don't have a grid orframework to make financial
decisions.
And and I'm always so surprisedthat it's almost like
everybody's kind of winging it,you know, like you know what I
mean?
Like there's not a lot ofplanning.
And I'm not saying everybody'sthat way, but I'm just saying I
think the majority of peoplereally struggle with making
(12:12):
financial decisions and makinggood financial decisions.
So what I tell people, like,let's take somebody I'll I'll
tell you about a client of minethat technically didn't need a
reverse mortgage.
They have money, their house ispaid off, they have no debt.
And I said, Well, what about asafety net?
You know, you've lived longenough to see that life can hit
(12:32):
you upside the head.
What if you have a safety net?
Or what if you start giving awaysome of your wealth while you're
alive to your family, to yourcharities that you love, and and
you can see the good that it'sdoing while you're here.
You can maybe give some guidanceto your kids or grandkids while
they're here or help them buy ahouse, down payment for a house,
etc.
So they actually did that, andthey ended up with more money
(12:55):
because what they did is theythey didn't have long-term care
insurance, which only 12% ofpeople have, two-thirds of
people are gonna need it.
And it's expensive, as you know.
But they took that money andthey bought a life insurance
policy with a long-term carerider.
So at the end, the kids, theheirs ended up with more money
because, as you know, lifeinsurance proceeds aren't
(13:15):
taxable, nor reverse mortgageproceeds.
So more money is going to theheirs, they're accessing the
money that's locked up in theirhome equity to help the velocity
of the money idea to help thekids or the charities while
they're still here.
And everybody wins.
The the homeowner wins, theheirs win, the charities win,
and at the end there's moremoney.
(13:37):
So it that's why I'm sayinglearn about it, understand it,
because it can be a tool in yourtoolbox that can actually help
you do more for your family andcharities.
SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Yeah, that's an awesome story about how it
turned out more.
Um, you've done so many likehundreds of seniors in their
family.
So, what's that's one story thatstuck with you of like somebody
that didn't quote unquote needit but ended up being better in
the long run.
Is there another story um thathas really stuck with you of
what that kind of reminded youwhy this is so important and why
(14:10):
you've been doing it for 20years?
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
Yeah, there's really three ways people use a reverse
mortgage eliminate their monthlymandatory payment, make it
optional, access their equity,or um purchase a home and
finance it with a reversemortgage.
So I'll talk about the I'll talkabout each story here for a
minute.
So Bill and Sharon came into myoffice, they'd moved from
Arkansas back to Colorado, andBill was struggling at the
(14:34):
altitude with oxygen, and hewasn't well.
He goes, Look, I'm not long forthe earth.
I want to be sure my wife'sgonna be okay when I'm not here.
Okay, meaning she lived in ahouse that had low maintenance,
that she didn't have to make apayment.
And six months later, uh Sharoncalls me and she says, Kevin,
this is Sharon.
I just wanted to let you knowBill passed away.
(14:55):
And you had told us that as longas this remains our primary
home, we maintain it, we pay theproperty taxes, insurance, HOADs
on time, we can stay everybodyto 150 and no payment.
Payment's optional, right?
I said, that's right.
Sigh of relief.
She goes, Oh, good, that's theonly way I can afford to stay
here.
Because now she's living on oneincome.
She lost one income.
(15:16):
The second one would be uhcouple, uh Alex and Angela.
They had a low mortgage balance,but he had gotten sick and
couldn't could no longer work.
So the reverse mortgage paid offthe mortgage balance, freed up
about uh$1,100 a month, thenthey accessed their equity about
another$1,100 a month.
So now they're up to$2,200 amonth to live on without Alex's
(15:39):
income.
That's access equity.
And then the third one iseliminate payment.
So um this is how most peopleuse it, by the way.
They make their monthly paymentoptional.
So the very first lady I helpedin 2015 was referred to me by
her daughter, a client.
Her name was Carmen, she's aboutfive foot enough and just full
of fire, ton of fun.
(16:00):
And I just asked her, I said,Hey Carmen, why do you want to
do this?
How's this gonna help you?
She lived in a duplex, won therent side, paid the mortgage,
but she only had social securityto live on.
She said, Well, my budget'stight.
I'm like, I get that.
A lot of people have that sameissue.
So tell me more about that.
She says, Well, to be honest,I'm using credit cards to buy
(16:21):
groceries.
She's 84 years old, living oncredit cards to eat.
At the closing table, I know themath, right?
I know how much money we'resaving her.
No more mortgage payment.
That's about 900.
And then she could access money,pay off her credit cards.
So it's about 1200 altogether amonth that she was in her
(16:42):
budget.
Plus this line of credit thatshe could access whatever she
wanted, convert it to lump sumor monthly payments.
So I just asked her, I said, HeyCarm, I know the math, but tell
me how this is gonna help you.
So I'd been in the business uh11 years at that point.
She kisses me on the cheek.
The only time you say I've beenkissed at closing.
She says, I want you to knowthis is gonna help me sleep at
(17:05):
night.
I won't have to worry aboutmoney.
And I have to go home and tellmy wife who got kissed by a lady
at closing.
That that was kind of theturning point for me to say,
man, this is such a greatproduct.
I'm gonna tell the whole world,everybody I know, how this can
help them.
And and I ended up writing thebook about it, not just her
story, but all my clients'stories, or several of my
(17:26):
clients' stories called TheReverse Mortgage Changed My
Life.
And it's really just theirstories of how reverse mortgages
helped them.
Because it has such a badreputation, I just wanted people
to say, well, maybe it's not sobad after all.
SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Yeah.
Um that first story.
So are people over 62 able topurchase a house with a reverse
mortgage?
SPEAKER_01 (17:48):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
I didn't I didn't know that.
I thought it they had to be apre-existing homeowner to be
able to access it.
But yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:58):
So as long as they're as long as one of them
is 62 years or older, they canbuy a house, they have to put up
a large down payment.
We'll call it 65%.
But then the loan puts up theremainder, and as long as it's
their primary home, theymaintain it, pay the property
tax insurance on time.
No payments required, and theycan live there until they
permanently move out.
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
Wow.
Yeah, I mean, it's stillincredible that you can buy it
at closing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Um think about this.
So many seniors struggle withthe stairs or the maintenance of
the home or shoveling the snowor cutting the lawn or cleaning
the house, whatever it would be.
This is a home they've lived in20, 30, 40 years, but now it
doesn't work anymore.
So now they have to move likeBill and Sharon.
They have to move to a home thatbetter suits them in the stage
of life.
Lower maintenance, no stairs,and they don't want a payment.
(18:49):
The payment's the largestexpense in a budget.
So yeah, again, for the rightperson, it's a game changer.
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
Yeah.
Seriously.
Um switching gears a little bit,more just talking about people.
You wrote the book on all thedifferent stories and the lives
that have been changed.
You've also traveled themajority of the United States,
47 states, and then to 40different countries, just
experienced life, I would say,and the world.
Um, what's a trip or what'ssomething that you learned about
(19:20):
people in general that maybeeven changed the way that you
approach like business andclients just from your travel
and and experience withdifferent cultures?
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Yeah, it's true.
You know, uh cultures and peopleare so different.
And I think as Americans, wetend to think that our way is
the best way or the right way.
But um, there's lots of rightways.
There's lots of ways that work,so to speak.
And um, one of the very firsttimes I went overseas, um, we
had a host tell us, he said,things are different here.
(19:51):
He said, You're not better thanus, we're not better than you,
but we do things different here.
So just be open to learn ourculture and our people.
And that's the same thing withthe verse mortgage.
Um it's something to learnabout, it's an educational
thing.
If if people are just gonna takethe time, like I have lots of
resources to help people learnunder the radar without reaching
(20:12):
out to me.
Like there's a consumer guide onmy website they can look at.
I've got a uh YouTube channelwith a bunch of videos, short
videos they can watch.
The idea being just to learn howit can work for you.
Because like like culturepeople, they're like a
fingerprint.
And a reverse mortgage is like afingerprint.
We can tailor it to whateverthey want to do.
Like, I think about another ladywho lives in Grand Junction,
(20:35):
Colorado, not far from you guys,um, and her name's Grandma Pat.
And I asked her, I said, Hey,why do you want to do this?
You own your house outright,it's half a million, you know.
Why do you want to do this?
She said, Well, I was a singlemom, and then my daughter's a
single mom, and I have threegrandsons, and I want to be the
grandma that they talk aboutwhen I'm no longer here, and I
want to create memories with mygrandsons that they're gonna
(20:57):
remember for the rest of theirlives.
So I said, What are you gonnado?
She goes, Well, this summer,which was June, they took a trip
to uh St.
Kitts and had two weeks downthere and did all kinds of
stuff, parasailing and all thestuff you can do.
And she made these memories forthese preteen and teenage boys
that they're gonna carry withthem the rest of their life when
she's no longer here.
(21:18):
So that's the kind of thing,right?
That if people truly understooduh the power of this, that
they'd be lining up outside mydoor.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah.
I think I mean I agree, likeit's something that gives access
to a just incredible resource,financial resource, to help
making the last few decades oflife the the best that they
possibly can be with whateverthe needs might be, whether it's
less less monthly payments,access to their equity, or um oh
(21:50):
man, what was the last one?
I just forgot.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
Financing the home.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
Financing the home, yes.
Um, this is awesome.
So you've had a long career,multiple different passions.
When you look back on yourcareer years from now, what do
you hope to be remembered mostabout Kevin Getman?
Not necessarily the mortgageexpert, but just the person.
SPEAKER_01 (22:10):
Yeah.
I would say that I I lovedpeople and I just took care of
people, looked after people, didthe right thing for them, tried
to make their life better, triedto listen to what was important
to them and create a strategy ora plan to help them, you know,
do what they want to do.
That's kind of been the wholeway of the whole time I've been
in the business, you know, since2004, I just really tried to
(22:32):
listen to people and help themaccomplish what they're trying
to do.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
I love that.
Um, you mentioned you mentionedyour website.
Um, are you licensed just inColorado?
Who should reach out?
How do they get in contact withyou?
And where there's only 218certified people, I'm sure you
know probably a lot of them.
So you could refer to that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
So our company's in 40 states.
I'm with a company called C2Financial.
Um, and I'm licensed in 20.
Awesome.
But um, yeah, people can go tomy website, uh, reverse mortgage
revolution.com, and uh if theywanted to download a guide, a
consumer guide to read aboutreverse mortgages, very, very
helpful.
Compares reverse mortgages withtraditional mortgages, reverse
(23:14):
mortgage line of credit withhome equity line of credit,
answers the FAQs, the myths.
Uh it's very, very well done, ifI do say so myself.
And then um I do have a uhYouTube channel called reverse
mortgage.video.
It's a bunch of um briefeducational videos, one to two
minutes where people can just gothrough and pick the topic they
want to learn about.
(23:35):
And um, those two resources willhelp them know more than Dave
Ramsey or Susan, and I'll tellyou about it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:42):
Sweet.
Um I'm gonna go watch thoselater today, probably.
Um, thank you so much, Kevin.
This has been another episode ofSenior Care Academy.
Uh, thanks for joining us andfor all that you do to make it
so that way home financing isclearer and kinder for for
seniors everywhere.
So I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:00):
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
Yeah, thanks.
Welcome back to Senior Care Academy.
Today's guest is Kevin Gutman.
Kevin is a senior mortgagebroker, reverse mortgage
specialist, and a three-timeAmazon best-selling author with
over 20 years of experience.
He's one of just 218 certifiedreverse mortgage professionals
nationwide, which is awesome.
He's known for his integrity,his transparency, and his people
(00:30):
for first approach.
He has over 105-star reviews andan A plus BBB rating.
Kevin helps senior homeownersmake confident and informed
financial choices.
And then outside of work, he's alifelong learner.
He has three master's degrees,and he's an avid Lakers fan,
world traveler, and dedicatedcommunity volunteer.
So I'm grateful to have you on.
(00:50):
Excited to chat, Kevin.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
Good to see you.
Thanks for having me today.
SPEAKER_00 (00:56):
Yeah.
First, I kind of want to askwhat got you into mortgages and
then reverse mortgages being oneof 218 out of literally tens of
thousands of mortgage officers,being able to do reverse
mortgages is really cool.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
Yeah.
You know, I grew up on a realestate home.
My dad was a real-term investor.
He actually trained new agents.
So from the time I was a littleguy, I was learning about real
estate.
And I spent the first 12 yearsof my career working for a
nonprofit.
I used to travel around thecountry and around the world,
raise money for people in thedeveloping world to have clean
water, medical clinics, schools,small business loans.
(01:33):
It was really great.
However, my wife and I have fivechildren.
I just needed to be home where Iwas traveling about half the
time.
And so I just kind of thought,well, I'm good at math.
I like helping people solvingproblems.
And so I got into the mortgageindustry.
And what I like about reversemortgages is uh they really
change people's lives.
I guess all mortgages do becausepeople who who own real estate
(01:57):
have a 44 times higher net worththan people that don't.
But when they get older, a lotof times they don't have enough
money.
So tapping into the equity intheir home actually allows them
to live the lifestyle theydreamed of and worked for their
whole life.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Yeah.
I think that's really cool.
And reverse mortgages for a longtime, I think, have a pretty bad
rap.
And you've now at this pointyou've helped countless seniors
navigate one of the biggestfinancial decisions of their
life, which is a reversemortgage.
And you love the Lakers, so I'mcurious if you have a fun little
analogy.
But if you if a reverse mortgagewere like a play in basketball,
what would it be?
(02:33):
Is it a pick and roll?
Is it full court press?
How would you define it?
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
You know, for the right person, it's really a slam
dunk.
And the reason I say that isbecause um I'd say 90% of people
don't have enough money.
Uh Fidelity just came out with astudy saying a 65-year-old
couple is going to need$172,000to pay for out-of-pocket medical
costs in retirement.
(02:59):
The average retirement lasts 18years.
Financial planners say to planon 30 because baby boomers are
younger, they're living longer,healthier.
So I'd say it's a slam dunk forthe right person.
It's not for everybody, but forthe right person that can really
change their life.
SPEAKER_00 (03:15):
Yeah, there's an interesting statistic out there.
I think it's like over 60% ofall medical expenses you'll pay
for in your entire life happenafter 65.
So and then the average lifespanin the US right now is 77.
So in the last 12 years of yourlife, you're spending over half
of everything that you'll spendon medical.
It's a it's an expensive kind oftime, it can be an expensive
(03:38):
time of life.
Um you've said that your missionis to simplify the home loan
process for seniors.
Um is there a piece of mortgagejargon, or specifically maybe um
reverse mortgage jargon that youwish you could just get rid of
because it's confusing peopleand not actually helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
You know, I thought about this um question.
What I see on the traditionalside is people chase the rate.
You know, rates come down andthey refinance.
And what they're doing isthey're resetting the clock
every time they're refining theclock.
SPEAKER_00 (04:10):
Yeah, when we uh bought our house, they said it's
like the date the rate thing orwhatever.
It's like the rate is high rightnow, but you can just refinance
whenever you want.
And yeah, it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
But when it becomes cyclical, when you're doing it
every few years, you're notreally getting ahead.
So that's one thing on thetraditional side.
On the other side, with reversemortgages, I think what I find
is it's important for peoplejust to be open to learn.
You mentioned at the beginninghow the programs evolved and
changed over the years, gottensafer for seniors.
(04:43):
And when people actually sitdown and learn about it, the
number one reaction is, okay,what's the catch?
This sounds too good to be true.
Because they're believing allthese myths on the internet that
are not true anymore, or they'rebelieving people like Dave
Ramsey and Susie Ormon, whoaren't licensed and don't
originate mortgages and reallydon't understand them.
(05:04):
And so I'd say do your ownresearch, do your own home, or
be open to learn about and seeif it could be something that
could help you.
SPEAKER_00 (05:11):
What is the biggest thing that's changed?
My understanding of reversemortgages, they used to have a
deadline, right?
Like you have a reversemortgage, and then if you lived
10 years after 10 years, they'relike, well, your loan is up, and
they kicked.
Is that the biggest thing that'schanged?
Or what's what's the biggesthurdle that you have to overcome
typically when talking to peopleabout reverse mortgages to help
(05:33):
get rid of their fear?
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Yeah.
So these are loans for primaryhomes.
People have to be at least 62.
They have to maintain it, paythe property taxes, insurance on
time.
If they do that, the term of theloan, get ready for this, 150
years of the youngest bone.
Oh my gosh.
In other words, you can'toutlive it, and people don't
live in the biggest myth I hearover and over every day is okay,
(05:57):
I know I've got to sign my houseover to the to the lender.
That's not true.
It's just like a regularmortgage.
So, like with any mortgage,you're untitled, you have a lien
against your home.
Same thing with the reversemortgage.
The difference is there's nopayment required with a reverse
mortgage.
Payment's optional, you can makea payment if you choose to, but
you don't have to.
And then, second, it's anon-recourse loan.
(06:19):
What that means is so everymortgage we've ever had in our
lives up to a reverse mortgagetime period, is what we're
personally liable for.
If we miss the payment, we get aphone call.
Hey, where's the money?
What happened?
With a reverse mortgage, thatdoesn't happen because there's
no payment required.
It's a non-recourse loan, whichmeans the only way the lender
gets paid back is at the endwhen the last person moves out
(06:41):
permanently through the sale orrefinance of the home.
So people say, I signed my houseover, and the reason that is
even a thing is from 1961 to1988, these loans were not
regulated.
So that did happen.
People did lose their homes,people did sign their house over
to the lender, but it hasn'tbeen that way for 37 years.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's interesting.
So now, um, yeah, nobody canoutlive that term.
And then basically it's not, Ithink that's something I just
learned.
I thought that it was that thebank in essence owned your
house, and then once you passed,it's like, okay, it's ours.
But it's to the point where ifI'm a if my mom gets a reverse
(07:28):
mortgage then and lives for 20more years, and then um at the
end of it, I can go and say, Iwould like to purchase this
house, or can we refinance itinto my name?
And all of a sudden it's atraditional mortgage again that
I'm paying down.
Um, but I get it, in essence,first writer refute, I begin to
say, okay, let's this is what wewant to do with the house.
Um and then with that, where thebank owns it, or not owns it,
(07:54):
but in this sense too, if my momsaid I don't want to buy the
house, but there is a hundredthousand dollars in equity, I'm
still able to sell it as ournext of kin and and recoup that
equity.
Wow.
Yeah, that's a lot more like alot more friendly than that
little couple decade period thateverybody's like, oh, that's
(08:14):
what it is.
And it's like, no, it's not.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
And what's happened over the years is the
government, it's agovernment-backed loan, FHA
backed, overseen by HUD.
Um, it's just gotten safer overthe years.
There's so many safeguards builtinto it because seniors are a
vulnerable population and thegovernment doesn't want them
taken advantage of.
So all the fees are transparent,they're set by the federal
government or by stategovernments, they have to do
(08:38):
third-party counseling with anindependent counselor.
Um, you know, you used to seethe loan paperwork stack, they
have to sign as a big stack.
Um, and all of it's to protectthe senior.
The other thing is they we welook for um that somebody's not
being taken advantage of.
Because a lot of times, sadly,it's a family member who's
taking advantage of a senior toget their equity.
(09:00):
So there's lots of safeguardsbuilt in to protect them.
SPEAKER_00 (09:04):
What speaking of families, do you ever run into
it where um like how often istheir adult children involved?
And do you have to overcomebeing like, well, that's my like
inheritance?
I don't know.
Like, I don't there are somepeople that are potentially
greedy and like I want to havethe$500,000 in equity when mom
passes and not$20,000 because$480,000 has been spent on her
(09:29):
living, you know?
Is that a thing or not really?
SPEAKER_01 (09:31):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Um, I've I've never had a umfamily member say that.
I've never heard that.
SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
Yeah.
But I have a friend who usesthis analogy, he's in the
business too, and he he's heheard a grandchild complaining
that grandma had um he got areverse mortgage and used up
some of her equity.
And he said, Well, let me askyou this.
Did grandma have a 401k?
Yeah.
What happened to that?
Oh, she spent it all.
(10:01):
Okay.
So was she able to come livewith you?
No.
Were you able to support her?
No.
Okay, so grandma didn't have alot of options.
She had to tap into her equityto be able to live, right?
Prices are going up.
The number one fear a senior hasis outliving their money.
And so the all this does is, youknow, we all have three buckets
(10:22):
of money we draw from, right?
There's investments, assets,wages.
And when you're retired, yourwages are really your your
pension or your social security.
Um and then assets aren'tliquid, right?
Real estate isn't liquid.
The only way we can access ourequity is three ways sell our
house, pay the six percent tothe realtors, uh, do a cash out
(10:45):
refinance or a home equity lineof credit, have a mandatory
payment, or do a reversemortgage, access some equity,
and not have a monthly payment.
So that's why I say for theright person that's a slam dunk,
when they truly understand howit works.
Um, I had a lady one time say,Well, I want to be sure there's
going to be equity left for mykids.
Well, you're only really able toborrow 35 to 45 percent.
(11:08):
So there's almost always equityat the end to be sure.
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
Especially if they if they sell it or refinance,
there's plenty.
And 45 percent of the medianhouse these days is still
hundreds of thousands.
And if you live within means,it's a decade of expenses
almost, you know.
So um so you grew up in realestate, we talked about how you
(11:35):
have three different master'sdegrees, which I think is super
cool.
Um what's something that schoolwasn't able to teach you uh um
about the mortgage world ormaybe the world in general that
you've been able to learnthroughout your career and your
experience?
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
I think the biggest surprise to me has been um
people don't have a grid orframework to make financial
decisions.
And and I'm always so surprisedthat it's almost like
everybody's kind of winging it,you know, like you know what I
mean?
Like there's not a lot ofplanning.
And I'm not saying everybody'sthat way, but I'm just saying I
think the majority of peoplereally struggle with making
(12:12):
financial decisions and makinggood financial decisions.
So what I tell people, like,let's take somebody I'll I'll
tell you about a client of minethat technically didn't need a
reverse mortgage.
They have money, their house ispaid off, they have no debt.
And I said, Well, what about asafety net?
You know, you've lived longenough to see that life can hit
(12:32):
you upside the head.
What if you have a safety net?
Or what if you start giving awaysome of your wealth while you're
alive to your family, to yourcharities that you love, and and
you can see the good that it'sdoing while you're here.
You can maybe give some guidanceto your kids or grandkids while
they're here or help them buy ahouse, down payment for a house,
etc.
So they actually did that, andthey ended up with more money
(12:55):
because what they did is theythey didn't have long-term care
insurance, which only 12% ofpeople have, two-thirds of
people are gonna need it.
And it's expensive, as you know.
But they took that money andthey bought a life insurance
policy with a long-term carerider.
So at the end, the kids, theheirs ended up with more money
because, as you know, lifeinsurance proceeds aren't
(13:15):
taxable, nor reverse mortgageproceeds.
So more money is going to theheirs, they're accessing the
money that's locked up in theirhome equity to help the velocity
of the money idea to help thekids or the charities while
they're still here.
And everybody wins.
The the homeowner wins, theheirs win, the charities win,
and at the end there's moremoney.
(13:37):
So it that's why I'm sayinglearn about it, understand it,
because it can be a tool in yourtoolbox that can actually help
you do more for your family andcharities.
SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Yeah, that's an awesome story about how it
turned out more.
Um, you've done so many likehundreds of seniors in their
family.
So, what's that's one story thatstuck with you of like somebody
that didn't quote unquote needit but ended up being better in
the long run.
Is there another story um thathas really stuck with you of
what that kind of reminded youwhy this is so important and why
(14:10):
you've been doing it for 20years?
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
Yeah, there's really three ways people use a reverse
mortgage eliminate their monthlymandatory payment, make it
optional, access their equity,or um purchase a home and
finance it with a reversemortgage.
So I'll talk about the I'll talkabout each story here for a
minute.
So Bill and Sharon came into myoffice, they'd moved from
Arkansas back to Colorado, andBill was struggling at the
(14:34):
altitude with oxygen, and hewasn't well.
He goes, Look, I'm not long forthe earth.
I want to be sure my wife'sgonna be okay when I'm not here.
Okay, meaning she lived in ahouse that had low maintenance,
that she didn't have to make apayment.
And six months later, uh Sharoncalls me and she says, Kevin,
this is Sharon.
I just wanted to let you knowBill passed away.
(14:55):
And you had told us that as longas this remains our primary
home, we maintain it, we pay theproperty taxes, insurance, HOADs
on time, we can stay everybodyto 150 and no payment.
Payment's optional, right?
I said, that's right.
Sigh of relief.
She goes, Oh, good, that's theonly way I can afford to stay
here.
Because now she's living on oneincome.
She lost one income.
(15:16):
The second one would be uhcouple, uh Alex and Angela.
They had a low mortgage balance,but he had gotten sick and
couldn't could no longer work.
So the reverse mortgage paid offthe mortgage balance, freed up
about uh$1,100 a month, thenthey accessed their equity about
another$1,100 a month.
So now they're up to$2,200 amonth to live on without Alex's
(15:39):
income.
That's access equity.
And then the third one iseliminate payment.
So um this is how most peopleuse it, by the way.
They make their monthly paymentoptional.
So the very first lady I helpedin 2015 was referred to me by
her daughter, a client.
Her name was Carmen, she's aboutfive foot enough and just full
of fire, ton of fun.
(16:00):
And I just asked her, I said,Hey Carmen, why do you want to
do this?
How's this gonna help you?
She lived in a duplex, won therent side, paid the mortgage,
but she only had social securityto live on.
She said, Well, my budget'stight.
I'm like, I get that.
A lot of people have that sameissue.
So tell me more about that.
She says, Well, to be honest,I'm using credit cards to buy
(16:21):
groceries.
She's 84 years old, living oncredit cards to eat.
At the closing table, I know themath, right?
I know how much money we'resaving her.
No more mortgage payment.
That's about 900.
And then she could access money,pay off her credit cards.
So it's about 1200 altogether amonth that she was in her
(16:42):
budget.
Plus this line of credit thatshe could access whatever she
wanted, convert it to lump sumor monthly payments.
So I just asked her, I said, HeyCarm, I know the math, but tell
me how this is gonna help you.
So I'd been in the business uh11 years at that point.
She kisses me on the cheek.
The only time you say I've beenkissed at closing.
She says, I want you to knowthis is gonna help me sleep at
(17:05):
night.
I won't have to worry aboutmoney.
And I have to go home and tellmy wife who got kissed by a lady
at closing.
That that was kind of theturning point for me to say,
man, this is such a greatproduct.
I'm gonna tell the whole world,everybody I know, how this can
help them.
And and I ended up writing thebook about it, not just her
story, but all my clients'stories, or several of my
(17:26):
clients' stories called TheReverse Mortgage Changed My
Life.
And it's really just theirstories of how reverse mortgages
helped them.
Because it has such a badreputation, I just wanted people
to say, well, maybe it's not sobad after all.
SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Yeah.
Um that first story.
So are people over 62 able topurchase a house with a reverse
mortgage?
SPEAKER_01 (17:48):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
I didn't I didn't know that.
I thought it they had to be apre-existing homeowner to be
able to access it.
But yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:58):
So as long as they're as long as one of them
is 62 years or older, they canbuy a house, they have to put up
a large down payment.
We'll call it 65%.
But then the loan puts up theremainder, and as long as it's
their primary home, theymaintain it, pay the property
tax insurance on time.
No payments required, and theycan live there until they
permanently move out.
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
Wow.
Yeah, I mean, it's stillincredible that you can buy it
at closing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Um think about this.
So many seniors struggle withthe stairs or the maintenance of
the home or shoveling the snowor cutting the lawn or cleaning
the house, whatever it would be.
This is a home they've lived in20, 30, 40 years, but now it
doesn't work anymore.
So now they have to move likeBill and Sharon.
They have to move to a home thatbetter suits them in the stage
of life.
Lower maintenance, no stairs,and they don't want a payment.
(18:49):
The payment's the largestexpense in a budget.
So yeah, again, for the rightperson, it's a game changer.
SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
Yeah.
Seriously.
Um switching gears a little bit,more just talking about people.
You wrote the book on all thedifferent stories and the lives
that have been changed.
You've also traveled themajority of the United States,
47 states, and then to 40different countries, just
experienced life, I would say,and the world.
Um, what's a trip or what'ssomething that you learned about
(19:20):
people in general that maybeeven changed the way that you
approach like business andclients just from your travel
and and experience withdifferent cultures?
SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Yeah, it's true.
You know, uh cultures and peopleare so different.
And I think as Americans, wetend to think that our way is
the best way or the right way.
But um, there's lots of rightways.
There's lots of ways that work,so to speak.
And um, one of the very firsttimes I went overseas, um, we
had a host tell us, he said,things are different here.
(19:51):
He said, You're not better thanus, we're not better than you,
but we do things different here.
So just be open to learn ourculture and our people.
And that's the same thing withthe verse mortgage.
Um it's something to learnabout, it's an educational
thing.
If if people are just gonna takethe time, like I have lots of
resources to help people learnunder the radar without reaching
(20:12):
out to me.
Like there's a consumer guide onmy website they can look at.
I've got a uh YouTube channelwith a bunch of videos, short
videos they can watch.
The idea being just to learn howit can work for you.
Because like like culturepeople, they're like a
fingerprint.
And a reverse mortgage is like afingerprint.
We can tailor it to whateverthey want to do.
Like, I think about another ladywho lives in Grand Junction,
(20:35):
Colorado, not far from you guys,um, and her name's Grandma Pat.
And I asked her, I said, Hey,why do you want to do this?
You own your house outright,it's half a million, you know.
Why do you want to do this?
She said, Well, I was a singlemom, and then my daughter's a
single mom, and I have threegrandsons, and I want to be the
grandma that they talk aboutwhen I'm no longer here, and I
want to create memories with mygrandsons that they're gonna
(20:57):
remember for the rest of theirlives.
So I said, What are you gonnado?
She goes, Well, this summer,which was June, they took a trip
to uh St.
Kitts and had two weeks downthere and did all kinds of
stuff, parasailing and all thestuff you can do.
And she made these memories forthese preteen and teenage boys
that they're gonna carry withthem the rest of their life when
she's no longer here.
(21:18):
So that's the kind of thing,right?
That if people truly understooduh the power of this, that
they'd be lining up outside mydoor.
SPEAKER_00 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah.
I think I mean I agree, likeit's something that gives access
to a just incredible resource,financial resource, to help
making the last few decades oflife the the best that they
possibly can be with whateverthe needs might be, whether it's
less less monthly payments,access to their equity, or um oh
(21:50):
man, what was the last one?
I just forgot.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
Financing the home.
SPEAKER_00 (21:52):
Financing the home, yes.
Um, this is awesome.
So you've had a long career,multiple different passions.
When you look back on yourcareer years from now, what do
you hope to be remembered mostabout Kevin Getman?
Not necessarily the mortgageexpert, but just the person.
SPEAKER_01 (22:10):
Yeah.
I would say that I I lovedpeople and I just took care of
people, looked after people, didthe right thing for them, tried
to make their life better, triedto listen to what was important
to them and create a strategy ora plan to help them, you know,
do what they want to do.
That's kind of been the wholeway of the whole time I've been
in the business, you know, since2004, I just really tried to
(22:32):
listen to people and help themaccomplish what they're trying
to do.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
I love that.
Um, you mentioned you mentionedyour website.
Um, are you licensed just inColorado?
Who should reach out?
How do they get in contact withyou?
And where there's only 218certified people, I'm sure you
know probably a lot of them.
So you could refer to that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
So our company's in 40 states.
I'm with a company called C2Financial.
Um, and I'm licensed in 20.
Awesome.
But um, yeah, people can go tomy website, uh, reverse mortgage
revolution.com, and uh if theywanted to download a guide, a
consumer guide to read aboutreverse mortgages, very, very
helpful.
Compares reverse mortgages withtraditional mortgages, reverse
(23:14):
mortgage line of credit withhome equity line of credit,
answers the FAQs, the myths.
Uh it's very, very well done, ifI do say so myself.
And then um I do have a uhYouTube channel called reverse
mortgage.video.
It's a bunch of um briefeducational videos, one to two
minutes where people can just gothrough and pick the topic they
want to learn about.
(23:35):
And um, those two resources willhelp them know more than Dave
Ramsey or Susan, and I'll tellyou about it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:42):
Sweet.
Um I'm gonna go watch thoselater today, probably.
Um, thank you so much, Kevin.
This has been another episode ofSenior Care Academy.
Uh, thanks for joining us andfor all that you do to make it
so that way home financing isclearer and kinder for for
seniors everywhere.
So I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:00):
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
Yeah, thanks.
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Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com