September 27, 2024 • 33 mins
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Cameron Harris, the Chief Sales Officer at Sal Management, as he takes us through his remarkable journey from EMT to executive leadership in the senior care industry. Cameron's story is not just about a career shift but a heartfelt mission to transform healthcare culture through compassionate business practices. You'll learn how his experiences at places like Silverado ignited his passion for senior care and how he balances empathy with business acumen to improve the lives of seniors.
Ever wondered what it takes to truly excel in sales, especially in senior living? Cameron demystifies the world of sales by focusing on problem-solving and genuine customer care. Forget everything you know about pushy sales tactics; this episode emphasizes understanding customer needs through meaningful questions and compassionate interactions. Discover how ethical sales practices can not only achieve business goals but also enhance the quality of life for seniors. We also touch on the importance of emotional engagement and how leveraging technology can foster community growth and reduce reliance on referral agencies.
Curious about what the future holds for senior care sales? From the power of persistence and resilience to the significance of emotional engagement, Cameron shares invaluable insights that can transform your approach. Learn about the importance of feedback through personalized calls and performance reviews to continuously improve your sales strategies. Plus, get a glimpse into the exciting developments at SAL Management, including the remodel of the Beaumont Assisted Living facility. Finally, Cameron highlights the value of engaging with the Utah Assisted Living Association (UALA) for networking and legislative support, reinforcing his commitment to advancing the senior care industry. Tune in and be inspired by Cameron's dedication to making a positive impact.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Senior Care Academy podcast.
Our guest today to kick offseason two is Cameron Harris,
the Chief Sales Officer at SalManagement.
Cameron brings a wealth ofexperience in sales leadership,
customer acquisition andoperational execution,
specifically in the assistedliving and senior care space.
With a bachelor's degree inbusiness admin from the
University of Utah, cameron'scareer also includes a
(00:21):
successful stint as the Directorof Marketing at Lighten Home
Health and Hospice.
As a board member of the UtahAssisted Living Association, he
serves on a few committees themembership, legislative and
marketing committees.
Cameron is deeply involved inshaping the future of senior
care and we're excited to diveinto his strategies for sales
success and his vision forassisted living.
Welcome, cameron.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, so to start, I always like to kind of learn
more about the person, because Ithink it's interesting when
people, a lot of kind heartedpeople, get into senior care and
then don't last because it canbe tough.
So what originally got you fromstudying business at the
University of Utah to becomingthe chief sales officer at Sal?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, so years ago and it actually was.
It's deep rooted from even mygraduation from high school I
knew that I wanted to dosomething that was cool.
Like you know, you're thinkingyou're a young, young man, you
think you're pretty darn coolwhen you're 18 years old and you
graduate and and you just youthink you're something hot,
right.
And one.
(01:26):
One of my thoughts was well,it'd be really cool to be an EMT
, you know cause?
I grew up watching shows aboutfirefighters and that'd be,
that'd be really fun.
So I did just that.
I got my EMT license.
I worked in Arizona and in thehospital for several years and
realized that I think I want tobe a doctor, so went from
(01:48):
wanting to be an EMT toelevating myself to become a
physician assistant, studied inArizona for two years it's
called physician assistantstudies and then decided I would
move to Utah continue mystudies at the University of
Utah and once I got there I wasworking in the hospital in
Murray, intermountain Healthcare.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, and I was on their trauma team.
I'd worked there for severalyears at this point and had some
experiences where I felt likehealthcare was super valuable,
but I felt like it was kind ofgoing the wrong direction.
I felt like the culture was alittle toxic and I wanted to do
something a little bit different.
I wanted to help people recoverfrom their traumatic illnesses
(02:33):
and their crisis, but at thesame time, I realized through a
traumatic experience in the ERthat I needed to help more
people than just the singularpatient in front of me.
That if I was to study business, that I could put myself in a
position where I could directcultures of companies.
Yeah, I could help peopleachieve higher levels of success
all in either any type ofhealthcare really but I
(02:57):
coincidentally landed in mostlysenior care.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And haven't really looked back since then.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, care, yeah, and haven't really looked back
since then.
Yeah, so what originally drewyou into, like this senior
living industry and then whatkept you passionate about it
over all these years?
Because it can be hecticsometimes.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, so what drew me to senior care was a company
back many years.
It was called Silverado.
I met some people that workedthere.
They were super friendly, downto earth, kind, compassionate,
and I felt like a valuable teammember and I felt like I wanted
to be part of a culture thatrepresented that.
You know, graduating from theuniversity, you're kind of
(03:35):
trying to find your way rightand you're trying to figure out
where, where do I belong, whencan I make the greatest good but
yet still elevate myself andstill progress Right?
Yeah, so I joined that team andthat's where I initially
actually first experiencedmarketing and sales.
And then I started interactingwith people and I realized that
my personality when I, when Italk with people, I tend to get
(03:58):
deep, real quick with them.
I don't fear asking the hardquestions.
I'd rather have a qualityconversation versus a shallow
conversation, and so that's whatmade me, I think, a little bit
more successful in those roles,because I was more interested in
the person than the job, and Ifeel like that's just a
something that we can alwayslive by period.
I think if you're always moreinterested in the people, you'll
(04:18):
always be successful, and sothat's what kind of gave me the
energy to stay in senior caredespite being around a lot of, I
guess, death events for lack ofbetter words.
You know seniors are passing.
Seniors need help.
They're debilitated and they'refrail.
You know that can bringhardship in your own life.
You know people that you lovethat you come to get to know
passing and moving on, andmoving on.
(04:41):
But it's so inspiring becauseI'm the one that's helping them
find the peace, elevating theirlife in those final days that
they're here.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, I think that that's an important people that
stay in the industry long enough.
Like you said, it's the phaseof life that a lot of the time
seniors are in, and so it'seither you are able to find the
beauty in it or it wears on youfor years and years and losing
friends that you become closewith on a regular basis.
Yeah, so it's better to findthe beauty in realizing like
you're a part of the journey oflife rather than, oh, there's
(05:14):
just death all around me, youknow, like the positive aspect
of it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, and, and most of the time, you know, seniors
seem to be ignored, you know, byby most of the younger
generation and it, to me, ismore of like a challenge.
It's like when I find someonethat looks lonely and unhappy.
To me it's a challenge when Iidentify that, that senior, I
want to get close to them, Iwant to understand them, and
(05:41):
almost it becomes a game.
I want to win them over and Iwant to see them smile, yeah,
and be able to get a few tearsdeeper with them, them, and
almost it becomes a game.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I want to win them over and I want to see them
smile, yeah, and be able to get,yeah, a few tears deeper with
them, because I think a lot ofthe times it happens where maybe
their closest relatives orfriends have either passed or
estranged or they just don'tvisit as much, they start to
feel less and less valuable orlike their, their life
experiences, they don't sharethem as much, and so you kind
kind of have to get, you know,the peel back the onion and then
(06:06):
you get to the core and it'slike this person's extraordinary
yeah and being able to see thatas huge.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I mean, you'd feel the same way, right, as a senior
, feeling like you're, you'rediscounted, you know and and you
forgot.
And if you were essentially putin assisted living?
Yeah, You'd essentially put inassisted living and you felt
like you didn't have control,Right.
And I think that's where that'swhere those feelings of sadness
and come in and that thatchronic anxiety that you can see
(06:36):
sometimes and depression, andyou can really make a difference
in the senior industry if youtruly focus on the person.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, so you originally started in marketing.
How was kind of that transitionfrom marketing into, like the
sales, leadership roles and whatchallenges did you have?
It's definitely a little bitdifferent.
Marketing You're getting peoplein the door versus sales You're
taking them all the way throughto starting with you and the
differences.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
you know.
I've always been involved inboth sides of it.
Oh right, Lead generationversus closing the cell.
Yeah, you have to be persistent.
Right, you have to understandyour why.
You got to have a certain levelof tenacity.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, and not everyone has it and you've
posted about that on LinkedInextensively about like staying
dedicated, consistent.
How do you like instill thatkind of into the culture when,
especially kind of a lot oftimes in senior living, the
sales cycle can be months, likea long, long time, of just
(07:34):
following up and maintaining arelationship?
So how do you stay consistentand stay tenacious and and then
also balancing that with thewhat's the word Not vulnerable,
but like in a sensitive salesometimes it's definitely a
unique thing to have tenacityand empathy Like how do you
manage that and instill thatinto the culture at sell?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I think the comment that you're referring to
on on LinkedIn isself-discipline is the rocket
fuel.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, yeah it.
It's that right Realizing thatone may or may not have as much
self-discipline, and beingwilling and humble enough to
generate that Right and and tobe the humility is is really key
right.
In the senior industry it.
I feel like it's a little biteasier to be humble because
you're surrounded by people thatare going through challenging
(08:24):
things, and so it's a, it's areminder, but being
self-disciplined is really thekey to being successful, and in
building that into a culture isa little bit more difficult.
It's not super challenging, butthe reason being is because
there are certain people thatare going to be good at a
specific job yeah Right.
(08:44):
And you, you want to make surethat you have the right person
in the right seat in the busyeah Right.
Because they might be good atgiving care Doesn't mean that
they they will be good athelping an individual find peace
and assisted living whetherwhatever service that might be
that could be from personal careagencies all the way up to
(09:04):
assisted living or even skillednursing facilities right.
There's certain natural talentsand characteristics that we
have that we need to leverageand, as a leader, identifying
those skills and talents thatare innate in people and then
using those and helping themsharpen maybe those other skills
that aren't so sharp.
Right Is where you provide themost value to your team as a
(09:26):
leader in healthcare.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So I so kind of talking about getting sharpening
skills that people don't have.
So sales in the senior livingspace and just senior care in
general, I think is verydifferent compared to a lot of
industries and but working withseniors is going to be an
exceptional industry for likethe next 80 years.
People always talk about thebaby boomers and this week I was
(09:50):
like well, I wonder about Gen X, millennials and Gen Z and it's
like you have like 70 somethingmillion baby boomers and then
you have 68 or 69 Gen X and then72 million millennials and then
like six.
So it's like a hundred yearsworth of exceptional industry to
be in.
So how do you approach salesdifferently in senior living and
(10:10):
and maybe management that'strying to recruit sales
professionals from otherindustries where, like
door-to-door tenacity is like agiven into senior living?
How do you balance that?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
yeah, that's a fun.
That's a fun fun.
You know, I'll turn around alittle bit and ask you a
question.
If I ask you what sales meansto you, right, what would what
would you say?
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, I think sales is helping find.
Well, really it's just helpingsolve a problem.
To me, if they don't have aproblem, then there's not a sale
to be made.
But if they can's just helpingsolve a problem.
To me, If they don't have aproblem, then there's not a sale
to be made.
But if they can, if they have aproblem and you can help them
realize that your solution isthe answer, then you're just
problem solving.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So that's what sales is to me yeah, so it sells is
problem solving.
But see, most people don'tthink of it like that.
Yeah, when you say hey, you're,you're going to go talk to our
sales rep, immediately they kindof clam up and become
frustrated.
Walls, walls, barriers grow,right.
Yeah, because their interactionin sales were mostly negative
up until that moment.
Yeah, their experiences, thatof buying a car?
(11:16):
Yeah, right, who likes going tobuy a car and dealing with the
sales rep?
Not many people like to do that.
Yeah, now there's specialindividuals out there that enjoy
it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Or enjoy somebody knocking on their door at 2 pm
on.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Thursday Selling solar panels right, they don't
like enjoying with it, so thoseinteractions were purely
negative, right.
And so step one is really tounderstand what cells truly is
helping, overcome the perceived,the negative perception of what
cells is.
Cells isn't negative.
C Sales is creating value,helping people solve their
(11:48):
problems.
It's actually asking morequestions than talking yeah,
right.
And so if you can get into thathabit where you're actually
trying to help a person, well,you're going to be a really good
salesperson at the end of theday.
And that's the difference.
We're not dealing with a widget, we're dealing with a gadget
that you're selling, right,we're dealing with people's
(12:08):
lives.
So it's a lot easier toovercome that negative
perception of sales Once youunderstand that internally.
I grew up my whole life hatingsales because of those negative
experiences.
Now, overcoming that and thenleveraging my ability to care
for people and create value, itbecomes fun.
Yeah, right.
And then then there's thosenatural rewards of people having
(12:30):
higher quality of life becauseof something you did.
Yeah, in some widget you changetheir life.
Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, what misconceptions then are there in
senior living sales?
I feel like there's some whereit's like you know, you're less
of a salesperson and more oflike a tour guide, almost like
there's just different littlerandom misconceptions that you
don't like.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I don't know if there's anything particularly
negative to it.
I'm also not one that'shypercritical and in things that
I don't agree with, typicallygo in one ear and out the other
real quick, because I'm thatsort of person, right, I'm
confident enough in my skin.
But if there was a problem withthe industry is that it isn't
easy, right, there's a reason.
You said that people get burntout, right, and there is a lot
(13:17):
of turnover in the senior careand even healthcare industry in
general, especially after COVID.
And so I would suggest, if, ifthere was one thing, it would be
just understanding that eachindustry has its own challenges.
Yeah, right, and the grassisn't always greener on the
other side, it's just adifferent color, right, yeah,
(13:38):
and, and.
And that there's going to bechallenges.
In whatever industry that youwork in, and and especially in
healthcare, you can't let yourego get in the way, right,
healthcare is about other people, it's not about you.
Yeah, go get in the way.
Right, healthcare is aboutother people, it's not about you
.
Yeah, and other industries.
You know it's really easy.
Salespeople get a bad rap,right, because they're
egotistical in other industries,right, they're hard to deal
with.
(13:58):
In the healthcare industry, Ibelieve they're some of the most
compassionate, kind people I'veprobably ever met, and that's
probably our own downfall as anindustry.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, it's true, like it's hard because you want to
help everybody and like and it'salso difficult, especially as
Sal's a sizable senior livingspace, one of the biggest in
Utah and like it's it's hardbecause you have to have
standards and routines andthings to be able to scale and
have the size that you guys areat.
(14:27):
But then, as like an individualsalesperson or just a person
that's in the space, you arecompassionate and you want to
help everybody, but then, aslike an individual salesperson
or just a person that's in thespace, you are compassionate and
you want to help everybody, butsome it's just like tough and
that's what makes them great.
Like you said, it's having thecompassion to be able to ask
questions and want to help them,rather than like get a
commission.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, and then there's other inherent
challenges with that, becauseyou're so compassionate, right,
you don't want to come acrosspushy, right, and so there's
just challenges that come withbeing an ultra compassionate
industry.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah.
How do you balance that withyour salespeople of like be
compassionate, but also we needthem to.
You know, we have to fill ourcensus, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
When you find a need and you know you can help
someone, are you obligated to atleast let them know that you
can help them?
Morally, yeah, you'd beobligated to right.
Ethically, yes, you wouldn'tlet a child run into a street,
just as much as you wouldn't letsomeone receive no care that
(15:27):
needed care, no care that neededcare.
And so in the sales industrythat's what we got to remember
it might be uncomfortable tohelp someone through the sales
cycle, whatever sales cycle isestablished in that organization
, but if you truly believe youcan help them, then you should
self-obligate to speak up andhelp them through that sales
(15:48):
cycle.
Right, it's actually acourageous and admirable action
that you'd be taking, that'strue.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
And if there's pushback or they're resistant,
it's like do you know that theirlife is going to be better if
they move forward?
So I like that a lot of justlike truly being, I guess,
bought in or believing in theservice that you provide and the
level of care and the impactlike I said, changing lives A
lot of times, that last phase oflife.
(16:16):
If you believe that you canmake it the best possible
experience for them, you knowyou should feel excited about
pushing them and trying toovercome the resistance or
hesitancy and just like, how doI solve these questions that you
have?
That's making you hesitantbecause this is going to help
you.
Yeah, so I like that a lot.
(16:36):
Yeah, it's very cool, oh, yeah.
So this also has an interestingthing that I think I'd love your
intake, your put your input onin this space.
I guess in most sales cyclesthere's different decision
makers or influencers of thedecision maker, but in this
space, a lot of the time, theadult, children or some sort of
secondary person is looped in.
(16:57):
So how are you, how do youbuild relationships and trust,
not only with the senior that'sultimately moving in, but the
family, everybody that needs tobe bought into the idea of
moving to senior living.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, I yeah.
This is where the art of thecell comes in right, because in
the senior industry I think it'skind of unique where it's the
children helping the parent makethe decision.
Usually it's the other wayaround, right.
So there's kind of a role swaphere and you have to realize
there's different personalities.
(17:29):
Personalities play a big rolein this.
Who's the supporter, who's theone that's there just because
they feel like they have to bethere to support everyone?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Who's there?
That's the controller, that'sreally driving the conversations
, asking the difficult questionsright.
And who's there?
That's just the relationshipperson.
They're the talker.
They're there because they careabout their mom and they want
to make sure that the people whoare caring for their mom or
their dad or whoever thesewhichever loved one, it is right
(18:01):
, is's Jacob.
That's like in my own family,yeah, Like who's the decision
maker?
Who's just there for support.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And it's kind of fun.
It's interesting.
You don't think about that asyou're.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
As you interview people.
If you're out of it.
Yeah, yeah, and, and so it's asit's as simple as asking how
are you guys going to make thisdecision?
Who's going to be the decisionmaker in this?
You know, and and they'retypically pretty vulnerable with
you oh, we're going to lean alot on my brother because he's
the financial POA.
Oh, perfect, but you guys stillwant to be involved in this
(18:40):
conversation, right?
Absolutely, because we want tomake sure mom's getting the best
care, right?
So it's identifying who thedecision maker is and then who
else is going to be involved inthat conversation, and then
helping them through the process.
Many times, you focus solely onone person and then you get
frustrated later on in the sellcycle that another person's
(19:02):
holding it all up.
Yeah, you didn't even realizethat they had any say in it.
So your discovery process isactually what is the foundation
for a really successfulconversation and follow-up
process as you work the salescycle.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, and understanding that upfront in
the first consultation, if youcan.
So that way you're playing tothe different dynamics
throughout the whole thing, likeI said, so you don't get
side-blinded at the end of likewait, you're the one, like this
whole time you were the one thatwas going to make the decision,
or like you're have all thisinfluence.
And when I started I was like,oh, it's just, you were quiet so
I assumed you didn't.
You know, it's interestingtaking that time up front and
(19:38):
being kind of direct of justlike okay, like what does this
look like?
Not direct, but understandingthe different personality types,
like I said, asking, like youknow, is it a family effort?
Everybody's contributing?
Are you relying on one personmore than the other financially?
And just that's interesting,it's called.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
You know the approach in the interview phase of the,
of the whole cell cycle, rightOf the, of the discovery process
.
The approach is building trustand credibility.
How do you do that?
Right.
And then there's the interviewphase.
The interview phase isunderstanding what is really
their challenges and you reallywork it from.
There's a logical perspectiveand an emotional perspective.
(20:17):
Most cells where are they madetheir emotion?
For sure, right.
So the sooner you get to theemotional perspective, right,
the better the conversation isgoing to go.
Yeah, but the logical is alsohas to be addressed as well,
right.
So it's questions around likehey, what is the current
situation?
What is your desired situation?
Yeah, right.
(20:38):
What is your urgency?
Yeah, right, how, how soon doesthis need to actually happen?
Then you get down to if thingsweren't going to change, right,
what are you afraid would happen?
That's a.
(21:16):
They walked in the front doorand said, hey, I need your help.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
They're not there for fun.
They're not walking in sayingoh how can I spend $5,000 a
month somewhere?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And those are the successful people right that are
able to get into that soonerthan later, because a lot of
people they get worried aboutgetting into the emotional side,
but that's why they're there.
Yeah, it's not because of thelogic.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
You know there are the, the controllers that
function a lot in the logicright and stay out of the
emotion but uh, even still, theyfeel it as well, like yeah,
yeah, yeah, everything is anemotional decision and just
justified by logic.
But if you're fighting in in alogic battle, you're, it's just
like a loss, it's so much harderto win.
(22:00):
I'm listening to a book rightnow called Pitch Anything and it
talks about that.
Like you have the emotionalframe and then you have a logic
frame, an analyst frame, and ifyou're trying yeah, if you don't
get into the emotional frameand you're combating somebody
that has a stronger will orsomething, or they're the ones
giving up the money, you'regoing to lose in an analytical
frame.
Absolutely Get to the emotion.
Yep, can you talk a little bitabout how you're getting
(22:22):
feedback from your residents andfamilies to play into improving
your sales strategy, so likeafter they move in?
Or you know, if they don't movein, how are you getting that
feedback and to using it toimprove, make it better?
Next, time.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, we have different systems and each one
is almost unique to the specificfamily, but there's some
standardization.
One is there's family surveysthat go out that question you
know our ability to meet theirneeds and their experience and
their satisfaction.
Those are really helpful.
I mean, I don't know how oftenyou fill out a survey, but it's
(22:56):
probably not very often, likeyou get probably a couple and
you maybe fill out one out ofevery 10 or 15.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I'm not good at filling out surveys, so you can
imagine that respond the respondrate's pretty low on surveys.
But then it's the team membercalling and simply asking how
was it?
And there's a series ofquestions that we've established
that help us rate our abilityto care for someone, to address
their concerns or needs, and Ifeel like as long as that person
(23:25):
who's calling had worked inthat community or or, I think
you'll get pretty sincereresponses, yeah, from people.
I think the phone call is themost powerful way to get an
honest answer and not to mention, if you wanted to take a step
further, you could actually evenjust go visit them at their
home.
You know, the feedback is whatallows us to improve.
We shouldn't be afraid of that.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was thinking about it recently.
Just like how, if an employeeleaves, you want to have an exit
interview like what went wrong,what would have kept you here,
and just giving them genuineappreciation for working with
you.
So like the same idea of like a30, 60, 90 day performance
reviews with new employees, likehaving that same kind of
structure with clients and then,if a client chooses to leave or
(24:07):
a resident chooses to leave,having like an exit interview,
if you can, to just be like hey,what?
Like we want to be better forthe next person and just be
genuine with it and they're,they want to help.
And even if you had a terribleexperience, you know they'll
tell you about it and you canmake a change.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, and then something that's become more
prominent in the senior careindustry is even google reviews.
You know that's also really goodfeedback yeah, as well right
yeah, I don't know if you'veever experienced this, but you
sometimes you get maybe aone-star review because it's a
simple miscommunication thatoccurred Right, and then,
through just working with thefamily, that one-star review can
(24:44):
turn into a full.
You know a full five-starreview, right, and so you know.
Even monitoring your Googlereviews is a good way to get
feedback.
Or you want to go even further.
You talk to your employees,right, and you hear what they
have to see.
Your team members are supervaluable when it comes to
feedback and they leave reviewson Indeed and Glassdoor, and so,
(25:04):
as you monitor those sources aswell, it gives you a really
good feel of some of thepotential challenges you might
face and how to change them.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, when we spoke before, you were talking about
how you're trying to move awayfrom referral agencies.
I'm curious, like, what roletechnology and digital marketing
play currently in your role?
Like, do you do meta?
What do you have success or areyou hopeful for success there?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, so one of the things that I'm most proud of
when it comes to sales in ourcommunities, in our communities,
in our portfolio is the simplefact that families and friends
are our number one referralsource.
That's awesome, which meansthat's the community saying we
support you, right, and we wantto live with you.
We want to interact with youright.
And then you start getting intothe digital sources In
(25:50):
healthcare, you see that Googlesearches are increasing almost
exponentially in the seniorindustry, senior care industry
specifically.
It used to not be that way.
If you were to go back and lookat the graph, it's pretty flat
and then it's pretty exponentialafter that.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
You know I haven't really been a big fan of Google
ads.
I think organic growth is moreimportant.
So being consistent, becausewhat people want to see is happy
, lots of activity, brightcommunities.
They want to see healthyindividuals and you want to
paint that picture of what youreally offer.
So Facebook is one of yourgreatest tools in the senior
(26:25):
care industry.
Facebook Instagram can be alsoa great tool.
So your Facebook lives rightand your videos and your photos,
boosting those, and if you'redoing an ad on there, obviously
you're making sure that you'resetting the, the specific
parameters to meet your idealresident, or whoever the
influencer is of that idealresident that you're trying to
(26:46):
attract.
But I think you you really inthe in the senior care industry,
for long-term success, you wantyour top referral source to be
families and friends yeah, yeah,getting to the point, and it's
just saying that you're doing agood job, like they.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Like I said, they trust you, they support you
enough to bring in another lovedone into the space.
Makes it, makes your job easierif you have.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
If you have, you know , 700 advocates out in the city
yeah, talking about how awesomeyou are yeah, that, that there's
what, what, what digital sourceof marketing is better than
that.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, I know and that's what, like I said, google
something that I.
It's like Google, you can buyfor keyword and things like that
.
But a lot of the times whenyou're buying for that keyword,
it's somebody that's already inthe buying phase and I've found
a lot of times like just metaand different ad spaces or
digital spaces.
Absolutely it's hard to get theright targeting, you know,
(27:40):
until they're like ready tostart doing, um, yeah, tours and
whatnot.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So yeah, so as long as you're ranking, like you know
, top three in your listings andyou're in the top three in your
map listings as well, right,yeah, I think you're going to be
okay in the digital space.
I think it's going to becomemore competitive over the next
couple of years, yeah, um, andyou're going to have to.
You're going to have to bebetter at understanding your
keywords and making sure thatyou're back linking correctly
(28:06):
and building enough credibility.
Your blogs are going to be comeeven more important.
Right, and so, but and so but.
For now, I think it's reallyimportant to focus on your
families and friends.
I think that's just where thepower is at.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And just asking ultimately, hey, do you have
anybody?
You know that you'd want tolive with you.
Yeah, absolutely.
Running short on time, thequestions I like to ask towards
the end what advice would yougive to somebody that's looking
to transition into, like a salesclient relations role within
the senior living space?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, brand new, huh, brand new, fresh.
Don't take it too seriously.
Be consistent and make surethat you're being yourself Right
.
Most of the time you see peoplechange who they are.
Yeah, right, put on a littleyeah.
Right.
And they they dress up and theythey live this different life
(28:58):
at work than what's at home,having harmony between the two.
You shouldn't be any differentat work than you are at home.
That's how you can survive 40years.
That's how you survive, becauseimagine living two different
lifestyles.
Yeah, like that's that'sexhausting.
Yeah, so be confident inyourself.
Times Like that's that'sexhausting.
Yeah, so be confident inyourself.
You're going to add value whereyou are Right and your
(29:19):
personality.
Maybe you're not going to fit inin your first job, you know, as
in the sales industry, right,but that doesn't mean you're not
good at it.
You're going to have weaknesses.
Try again.
Yeah, right, be persistent,have grit.
Don't be afraid of failure,right, don't be afraid of the no
.
I think the most interestingthing when it comes to sales is
(29:40):
watching people address failureswhen they get a no.
How do they process it?
Well, what is there to process?
If you feel like the no waspremature, then go after it
again.
And what's wrong with another?
No, the no was premature, thengo after it again, right.
And what's wrong with anotherno, right.
Just be persistent and beyourself.
(30:00):
People will love you for whoyou are and they'll buy into you
for who you are and as as morepeople buy into you for who you
are and what you do, and I thinkyou'll gain momentum and that
momentum is just going tosnowball.
Yeah, it's going to be hard atfirst.
You're going to have to put ina lot of work, but that momentum
grows soon enough.
You're cruising, you're doingwell.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Love it, show up every day, be consistent,
believe in yourself and live thecharacteristics that you
actually have, rather thantrying to like put on, put
lipstick on a pig or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, and if you're not, and if you're struggling,
ask for help.
Right, there's so many peoplein the healthcare industry and
seniors, senior carespecifically.
There are people rooting foryou.
You just have to be braveenough and humble enough to ask
for help.
Yeah, and most people, you'd beamazed They'll.
They'll lift you up where youstand and they'll carry you
along the way.
Soon enough you'll be walking,running and then sprinting.
(30:51):
Yeah, you know, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I apologize about this.
We didn't get a bunch of timeto talk about SAL or UALA.
But the last question is whatare you excited about and
working on right now at SALmanagement?
And then part two what are youexcited about working on at the
UALA board?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, I'm excited.
You know there's alwaysopportunities in SAL In the
number of communities're at 16communities.
Right now we have the BeaumontAssisted Living out in Bountiful
.
It's undergone a huge remodel.
I'm super excited about that.
We took Utah's first assistedliving and have turned it into
something of a pearl inBountiful.
(31:30):
I just encourage you guys,whoever wants to come out, check
it out.
It's beautiful and I'm justhappy that we're able to help
preserve that community buildingin that community.
Yeah, it's amazing.
And then, as far as UALA isconcerned, you know I think you
don't know what you don't know.
So get involved in UALA.
(31:50):
You know, reach out, contact us, figure out what services we
have that we can provide you,figure out how we can support
you in your, in assisted livingcommunities.
It's a network.
We're here to support eachother.
Yeah, you know, one of thegreatest things we're fighting
right now, something to be awareof is the new choices waiver
and the rate adjustments rightnow.
So there's a lot of seniorsthat are vulnerable due to their
(32:14):
own financial decisions andthey could potentially not be
receiving the care that theyneed or even deserve.
And so we're fighting reallyhard on UALA to make sure that
new choice waiver.
Daily rate increases happen atthe legislative level.
That's huge.
We're super involved in that.
So if you want to be part ofthat effort and give us a holler
(32:35):
, as well as there's round tableevents that you can go to,
there's our annual conferences,semi-annual conferences that you
can go to.
There's hundreds of thousandsof people that are doing the
same thing we're doing all overthe state in the United States
as well, and this is just onesmall way that you can be part
of this big group and reallyfind people that have common
(32:57):
interest.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, thanks so much, cameron, for just coming on
today.
I love your passion, just whatyou stand for as a sales leader,
but also just a leader in thesenior living space and just
everything you're doing.
I'm excited to share this witheverybody.
I think, whether they are asalesperson or they manage
salespeople in the senior livingspace, there's just a lot of
gold nuggets today.
So
Welcome to the Senior Care Academy podcast.
Our guest today to kick offseason two is Cameron Harris,
the Chief Sales Officer at SalManagement.
Cameron brings a wealth ofexperience in sales leadership,
customer acquisition andoperational execution,
specifically in the assistedliving and senior care space.
With a bachelor's degree inbusiness admin from the
University of Utah, cameron'scareer also includes a
(00:21):
successful stint as the Directorof Marketing at Lighten Home
Health and Hospice.
As a board member of the UtahAssisted Living Association, he
serves on a few committees themembership, legislative and
marketing committees.
Cameron is deeply involved inshaping the future of senior
care and we're excited to diveinto his strategies for sales
success and his vision forassisted living.
Welcome, cameron.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, so to start, I always like to kind of learn
more about the person, because Ithink it's interesting when
people, a lot of kind heartedpeople, get into senior care and
then don't last because it canbe tough.
So what originally got you fromstudying business at the
University of Utah to becomingthe chief sales officer at Sal?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, so years ago and it actually was.
It's deep rooted from even mygraduation from high school I
knew that I wanted to dosomething that was cool.
Like you know, you're thinkingyou're a young, young man, you
think you're pretty darn coolwhen you're 18 years old and you
graduate and and you just youthink you're something hot,
right.
And one.
(01:26):
One of my thoughts was well,it'd be really cool to be an EMT
, you know cause?
I grew up watching shows aboutfirefighters and that'd be,
that'd be really fun.
So I did just that.
I got my EMT license.
I worked in Arizona and in thehospital for several years and
realized that I think I want tobe a doctor, so went from
(01:48):
wanting to be an EMT toelevating myself to become a
physician assistant, studied inArizona for two years it's
called physician assistantstudies and then decided I would
move to Utah continue mystudies at the University of
Utah and once I got there I wasworking in the hospital in
Murray, intermountain Healthcare.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, and I was on their trauma team.
I'd worked there for severalyears at this point and had some
experiences where I felt likehealthcare was super valuable,
but I felt like it was kind ofgoing the wrong direction.
I felt like the culture was alittle toxic and I wanted to do
something a little bit different.
I wanted to help people recoverfrom their traumatic illnesses
(02:33):
and their crisis, but at thesame time, I realized through a
traumatic experience in the ERthat I needed to help more
people than just the singularpatient in front of me.
That if I was to study business, that I could put myself in a
position where I could directcultures of companies.
Yeah, I could help peopleachieve higher levels of success
all in either any type ofhealthcare really but I
(02:57):
coincidentally landed in mostlysenior care.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And haven't really looked back since then.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, care, yeah, and haven't really looked back
since then.
Yeah, so what originally drewyou into, like this senior
living industry and then whatkept you passionate about it
over all these years?
Because it can be hecticsometimes.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, so what drew me to senior care was a company
back many years.
It was called Silverado.
I met some people that workedthere.
They were super friendly, downto earth, kind, compassionate,
and I felt like a valuable teammember and I felt like I wanted
to be part of a culture thatrepresented that.
You know, graduating from theuniversity, you're kind of
(03:35):
trying to find your way rightand you're trying to figure out
where, where do I belong, whencan I make the greatest good but
yet still elevate myself andstill progress Right?
Yeah, so I joined that team andthat's where I initially
actually first experiencedmarketing and sales.
And then I started interactingwith people and I realized that
my personality when I, when Italk with people, I tend to get
(03:58):
deep, real quick with them.
I don't fear asking the hardquestions.
I'd rather have a qualityconversation versus a shallow
conversation, and so that's whatmade me, I think, a little bit
more successful in those roles,because I was more interested in
the person than the job, and Ifeel like that's just a
something that we can alwayslive by period.
I think if you're always moreinterested in the people, you'll
(04:18):
always be successful, and sothat's what kind of gave me the
energy to stay in senior caredespite being around a lot of, I
guess, death events for lack ofbetter words.
You know seniors are passing.
Seniors need help.
They're debilitated and they'refrail.
You know that can bringhardship in your own life.
You know people that you lovethat you come to get to know
passing and moving on, andmoving on.
(04:41):
But it's so inspiring becauseI'm the one that's helping them
find the peace, elevating theirlife in those final days that
they're here.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah, I think that that's an important people that
stay in the industry long enough.
Like you said, it's the phaseof life that a lot of the time
seniors are in, and so it'seither you are able to find the
beauty in it or it wears on youfor years and years and losing
friends that you become closewith on a regular basis.
Yeah, so it's better to findthe beauty in realizing like
you're a part of the journey oflife rather than, oh, there's
(05:14):
just death all around me, youknow, like the positive aspect
of it.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, and, and most of the time, you know, seniors
seem to be ignored, you know, byby most of the younger
generation and it, to me, ismore of like a challenge.
It's like when I find someonethat looks lonely and unhappy.
To me it's a challenge when Iidentify that, that senior, I
want to get close to them, Iwant to understand them, and
(05:41):
almost it becomes a game.
I want to win them over and Iwant to see them smile, yeah,
and be able to get a few tearsdeeper with them, them, and
almost it becomes a game.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I want to win them over and I want to see them
smile, yeah, and be able to get,yeah, a few tears deeper with
them, because I think a lot ofthe times it happens where maybe
their closest relatives orfriends have either passed or
estranged or they just don'tvisit as much, they start to
feel less and less valuable orlike their, their life
experiences, they don't sharethem as much, and so you kind
kind of have to get, you know,the peel back the onion and then
(06:06):
you get to the core and it'slike this person's extraordinary
yeah and being able to see thatas huge.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I mean, you'd feel the same way, right, as a senior
, feeling like you're, you'rediscounted, you know and and you
forgot.
And if you were essentially putin assisted living?
Yeah, You'd essentially put inassisted living and you felt
like you didn't have control,Right.
And I think that's where that'swhere those feelings of sadness
and come in and that thatchronic anxiety that you can see
(06:36):
sometimes and depression, andyou can really make a difference
in the senior industry if youtruly focus on the person.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, so you originally started in marketing.
How was kind of that transitionfrom marketing into, like the
sales, leadership roles and whatchallenges did you have?
It's definitely a little bitdifferent.
Marketing You're getting peoplein the door versus sales You're
taking them all the way throughto starting with you and the
differences.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
you know.
I've always been involved inboth sides of it.
Oh right, Lead generationversus closing the cell.
Yeah, you have to be persistent.
Right, you have to understandyour why.
You got to have a certain levelof tenacity.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Yeah, and not everyone has it and you've
posted about that on LinkedInextensively about like staying
dedicated, consistent.
How do you like instill thatkind of into the culture when,
especially kind of a lot oftimes in senior living, the
sales cycle can be months, likea long, long time, of just
(07:34):
following up and maintaining arelationship?
So how do you stay consistentand stay tenacious and and then
also balancing that with thewhat's the word Not vulnerable,
but like in a sensitive salesometimes it's definitely a
unique thing to have tenacityand empathy Like how do you
manage that and instill thatinto the culture at sell?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, I think the comment that you're referring to
on on LinkedIn isself-discipline is the rocket
fuel.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, yeah it.
It's that right Realizing thatone may or may not have as much
self-discipline, and beingwilling and humble enough to
generate that Right and and tobe the humility is is really key
right.
In the senior industry it.
I feel like it's a little biteasier to be humble because
you're surrounded by people thatare going through challenging
(08:24):
things, and so it's a, it's areminder, but being
self-disciplined is really thekey to being successful, and in
building that into a culture isa little bit more difficult.
It's not super challenging, butthe reason being is because
there are certain people thatare going to be good at a
specific job yeah Right.
(08:44):
And you, you want to make surethat you have the right person
in the right seat in the busyeah Right.
Because they might be good atgiving care Doesn't mean that
they they will be good athelping an individual find peace
and assisted living whetherwhatever service that might be
that could be from personal careagencies all the way up to
(09:04):
assisted living or even skillednursing facilities right.
There's certain natural talentsand characteristics that we
have that we need to leverageand, as a leader, identifying
those skills and talents thatare innate in people and then
using those and helping themsharpen maybe those other skills
that aren't so sharp.
Right Is where you provide themost value to your team as a
(09:26):
leader in healthcare.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So I so kind of talking about getting sharpening
skills that people don't have.
So sales in the senior livingspace and just senior care in
general, I think is verydifferent compared to a lot of
industries and but working withseniors is going to be an
exceptional industry for likethe next 80 years.
People always talk about thebaby boomers and this week I was
(09:50):
like well, I wonder about Gen X, millennials and Gen Z and it's
like you have like 70 somethingmillion baby boomers and then
you have 68 or 69 Gen X and then72 million millennials and then
like six.
So it's like a hundred yearsworth of exceptional industry to
be in.
So how do you approach salesdifferently in senior living and
(10:10):
and maybe management that'strying to recruit sales
professionals from otherindustries where, like
door-to-door tenacity is like agiven into senior living?
How do you balance that?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
yeah, that's a fun.
That's a fun fun.
You know, I'll turn around alittle bit and ask you a
question.
If I ask you what sales meansto you, right, what would what
would you say?
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, I think sales is helping find.
Well, really it's just helpingsolve a problem.
To me, if they don't have aproblem, then there's not a sale
to be made.
But if they can's just helpingsolve a problem.
To me, If they don't have aproblem, then there's not a sale
to be made.
But if they can, if they have aproblem and you can help them
realize that your solution isthe answer, then you're just
problem solving.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
So that's what sales is to me yeah, so it sells is
problem solving.
But see, most people don'tthink of it like that.
Yeah, when you say hey, you're,you're going to go talk to our
sales rep, immediately they kindof clam up and become
frustrated.
Walls, walls, barriers grow,right.
Yeah, because their interactionin sales were mostly negative
up until that moment.
Yeah, their experiences, thatof buying a car?
(11:16):
Yeah, right, who likes going tobuy a car and dealing with the
sales rep?
Not many people like to do that.
Yeah, now there's specialindividuals out there that enjoy
it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Or enjoy somebody knocking on their door at 2 pm
on.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Thursday Selling solar panels right, they don't
like enjoying with it, so thoseinteractions were purely
negative, right.
And so step one is really tounderstand what cells truly is
helping, overcome the perceived,the negative perception of what
cells is.
Cells isn't negative.
C Sales is creating value,helping people solve their
(11:48):
problems.
It's actually asking morequestions than talking yeah,
right.
And so if you can get into thathabit where you're actually
trying to help a person, well,you're going to be a really good
salesperson at the end of theday.
And that's the difference.
We're not dealing with a widget, we're dealing with a gadget
that you're selling, right,we're dealing with people's
(12:08):
lives.
So it's a lot easier toovercome that negative
perception of sales Once youunderstand that internally.
I grew up my whole life hatingsales because of those negative
experiences.
Now, overcoming that and thenleveraging my ability to care
for people and create value, itbecomes fun.
Yeah, right.
And then then there's thosenatural rewards of people having
(12:30):
higher quality of life becauseof something you did.
Yeah, in some widget you changetheir life.
Yeah, that's huge.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, what misconceptions then are there in
senior living sales?
I feel like there's some whereit's like you know, you're less
of a salesperson and more oflike a tour guide, almost like
there's just different littlerandom misconceptions that you
don't like.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I don't know if there's anything particularly
negative to it.
I'm also not one that'shypercritical and in things that
I don't agree with, typicallygo in one ear and out the other
real quick, because I'm thatsort of person, right, I'm
confident enough in my skin.
But if there was a problem withthe industry is that it isn't
easy, right, there's a reason.
You said that people get burntout, right, and there is a lot
(13:17):
of turnover in the senior careand even healthcare industry in
general, especially after COVID.
And so I would suggest, if, ifthere was one thing, it would be
just understanding that eachindustry has its own challenges.
Yeah, right, and the grassisn't always greener on the
other side, it's just adifferent color, right, yeah,
(13:38):
and, and.
And that there's going to bechallenges.
In whatever industry that youwork in, and and especially in
healthcare, you can't let yourego get in the way, right,
healthcare is about other people, it's not about you.
Yeah, go get in the way.
Right, healthcare is aboutother people, it's not about you
.
Yeah, and other industries.
You know it's really easy.
Salespeople get a bad rap,right, because they're
egotistical in other industries,right, they're hard to deal
with.
(13:58):
In the healthcare industry, Ibelieve they're some of the most
compassionate, kind people I'veprobably ever met, and that's
probably our own downfall as anindustry.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, it's true, like it's hard because you want to
help everybody and like and it'salso difficult, especially as
Sal's a sizable senior livingspace, one of the biggest in
Utah and like it's it's hardbecause you have to have
standards and routines andthings to be able to scale and
have the size that you guys areat.
(14:27):
But then, as like an individualsalesperson or just a person
that's in the space, you arecompassionate and you want to
help everybody, but then, aslike an individual salesperson
or just a person that's in thespace, you are compassionate and
you want to help everybody, butsome it's just like tough and
that's what makes them great.
Like you said, it's having thecompassion to be able to ask
questions and want to help them,rather than like get a
commission.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, and then there's other inherent
challenges with that, becauseyou're so compassionate, right,
you don't want to come acrosspushy, right, and so there's
just challenges that come withbeing an ultra compassionate
industry.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah.
How do you balance that withyour salespeople of like be
compassionate, but also we needthem to.
You know, we have to fill ourcensus, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
When you find a need and you know you can help
someone, are you obligated to atleast let them know that you
can help them?
Morally, yeah, you'd beobligated to right.
Ethically, yes, you wouldn'tlet a child run into a street,
just as much as you wouldn't letsomeone receive no care that
(15:27):
needed care, no care that neededcare.
And so in the sales industrythat's what we got to remember
it might be uncomfortable tohelp someone through the sales
cycle, whatever sales cycle isestablished in that organization
, but if you truly believe youcan help them, then you should
self-obligate to speak up andhelp them through that sales
(15:48):
cycle.
Right, it's actually acourageous and admirable action
that you'd be taking, that'strue.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
And if there's pushback or they're resistant,
it's like do you know that theirlife is going to be better if
they move forward?
So I like that a lot of justlike truly being, I guess,
bought in or believing in theservice that you provide and the
level of care and the impactlike I said, changing lives A
lot of times, that last phase oflife.
(16:16):
If you believe that you canmake it the best possible
experience for them, you knowyou should feel excited about
pushing them and trying toovercome the resistance or
hesitancy and just like, how doI solve these questions that you
have?
That's making you hesitantbecause this is going to help
you.
Yeah, so I like that a lot.
(16:36):
Yeah, it's very cool, oh, yeah.
So this also has an interestingthing that I think I'd love your
intake, your put your input onin this space.
I guess in most sales cyclesthere's different decision
makers or influencers of thedecision maker, but in this
space, a lot of the time, theadult, children or some sort of
secondary person is looped in.
(16:57):
So how are you, how do youbuild relationships and trust,
not only with the senior that'sultimately moving in, but the
family, everybody that needs tobe bought into the idea of
moving to senior living.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, I yeah.
This is where the art of thecell comes in right, because in
the senior industry I think it'skind of unique where it's the
children helping the parent makethe decision.
Usually it's the other wayaround, right.
So there's kind of a role swaphere and you have to realize
there's different personalities.
(17:29):
Personalities play a big rolein this.
Who's the supporter, who's theone that's there just because
they feel like they have to bethere to support everyone?
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Who's there?
That's the controller, that'sreally driving the conversations
, asking the difficult questionsright.
And who's there?
That's just the relationshipperson.
They're the talker.
They're there because they careabout their mom and they want
to make sure that the people whoare caring for their mom or
their dad or whoever thesewhichever loved one, it is right
(18:01):
, is's Jacob.
That's like in my own family,yeah, Like who's the decision
maker?
Who's just there for support.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And it's kind of fun.
It's interesting.
You don't think about that asyou're.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
As you interview people.
If you're out of it.
Yeah, yeah, and, and so it's asit's as simple as asking how
are you guys going to make thisdecision?
Who's going to be the decisionmaker in this?
You know, and and they'retypically pretty vulnerable with
you oh, we're going to lean alot on my brother because he's
the financial POA.
Oh, perfect, but you guys stillwant to be involved in this
(18:40):
conversation, right?
Absolutely, because we want tomake sure mom's getting the best
care, right?
So it's identifying who thedecision maker is and then who
else is going to be involved inthat conversation, and then
helping them through the process.
Many times, you focus solely onone person and then you get
frustrated later on in the sellcycle that another person's
(19:02):
holding it all up.
Yeah, you didn't even realizethat they had any say in it.
So your discovery process isactually what is the foundation
for a really successfulconversation and follow-up
process as you work the salescycle.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, and understanding that upfront in
the first consultation, if youcan.
So that way you're playing tothe different dynamics
throughout the whole thing, likeI said, so you don't get
side-blinded at the end of likewait, you're the one, like this
whole time you were the one thatwas going to make the decision,
or like you're have all thisinfluence.
And when I started I was like,oh, it's just, you were quiet so
I assumed you didn't.
You know, it's interestingtaking that time up front and
(19:38):
being kind of direct of justlike okay, like what does this
look like?
Not direct, but understandingthe different personality types,
like I said, asking, like youknow, is it a family effort?
Everybody's contributing?
Are you relying on one personmore than the other financially?
And just that's interesting,it's called.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
You know the approach in the interview phase of the,
of the whole cell cycle, rightOf the, of the discovery process
.
The approach is building trustand credibility.
How do you do that?
Right.
And then there's the interviewphase.
The interview phase isunderstanding what is really
their challenges and you reallywork it from.
There's a logical perspectiveand an emotional perspective.
(20:17):
Most cells where are they madetheir emotion?
For sure, right.
So the sooner you get to theemotional perspective, right,
the better the conversation isgoing to go.
Yeah, but the logical is alsohas to be addressed as well,
right.
So it's questions around likehey, what is the current
situation?
What is your desired situation?
Yeah, right.
(20:38):
What is your urgency?
Yeah, right, how, how soon doesthis need to actually happen?
Then you get down to if thingsweren't going to change, right,
what are you afraid would happen?
That's a.
(21:16):
They walked in the front doorand said, hey, I need your help.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
They're not there for fun.
They're not walking in sayingoh how can I spend $5,000 a
month somewhere?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
And those are the successful people right that are
able to get into that soonerthan later, because a lot of
people they get worried aboutgetting into the emotional side,
but that's why they're there.
Yeah, it's not because of thelogic.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
You know there are the, the controllers that
function a lot in the logicright and stay out of the
emotion but uh, even still, theyfeel it as well, like yeah,
yeah, yeah, everything is anemotional decision and just
justified by logic.
But if you're fighting in in alogic battle, you're, it's just
like a loss, it's so much harderto win.
(22:00):
I'm listening to a book rightnow called Pitch Anything and it
talks about that.
Like you have the emotionalframe and then you have a logic
frame, an analyst frame, and ifyou're trying yeah, if you don't
get into the emotional frameand you're combating somebody
that has a stronger will orsomething, or they're the ones
giving up the money, you'regoing to lose in an analytical
frame.
Absolutely Get to the emotion.
Yep, can you talk a little bitabout how you're getting
(22:22):
feedback from your residents andfamilies to play into improving
your sales strategy, so likeafter they move in?
Or you know, if they don't movein, how are you getting that
feedback and to using it toimprove, make it better?
Next, time.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, we have different systems and each one
is almost unique to the specificfamily, but there's some
standardization.
One is there's family surveysthat go out that question you
know our ability to meet theirneeds and their experience and
their satisfaction.
Those are really helpful.
I mean, I don't know how oftenyou fill out a survey, but it's
(22:56):
probably not very often, likeyou get probably a couple and
you maybe fill out one out ofevery 10 or 15.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I'm not good at filling out surveys, so you can
imagine that respond the respondrate's pretty low on surveys.
But then it's the team membercalling and simply asking how
was it?
And there's a series ofquestions that we've established
that help us rate our abilityto care for someone, to address
their concerns or needs, and Ifeel like as long as that person
(23:25):
who's calling had worked inthat community or or, I think
you'll get pretty sincereresponses, yeah, from people.
I think the phone call is themost powerful way to get an
honest answer and not to mention, if you wanted to take a step
further, you could actually evenjust go visit them at their
home.
You know, the feedback is whatallows us to improve.
We shouldn't be afraid of that.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was thinking about it recently.
Just like how, if an employeeleaves, you want to have an exit
interview like what went wrong,what would have kept you here,
and just giving them genuineappreciation for working with
you.
So like the same idea of like a30, 60, 90 day performance
reviews with new employees, likehaving that same kind of
structure with clients and then,if a client chooses to leave or
(24:07):
a resident chooses to leave,having like an exit interview,
if you can, to just be like hey,what?
Like we want to be better forthe next person and just be
genuine with it and they're,they want to help.
And even if you had a terribleexperience, you know they'll
tell you about it and you canmake a change.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well, and then something that's become more
prominent in the senior careindustry is even google reviews.
You know that's also really goodfeedback yeah, as well right
yeah, I don't know if you'veever experienced this, but you
sometimes you get maybe aone-star review because it's a
simple miscommunication thatoccurred Right, and then,
through just working with thefamily, that one-star review can
(24:44):
turn into a full.
You know a full five-starreview, right, and so you know.
Even monitoring your Googlereviews is a good way to get
feedback.
Or you want to go even further.
You talk to your employees,right, and you hear what they
have to see.
Your team members are supervaluable when it comes to
feedback and they leave reviewson Indeed and Glassdoor, and so,
(25:04):
as you monitor those sources aswell, it gives you a really
good feel of some of thepotential challenges you might
face and how to change them.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, when we spoke before, you were talking about
how you're trying to move awayfrom referral agencies.
I'm curious, like, what roletechnology and digital marketing
play currently in your role?
Like, do you do meta?
What do you have success or areyou hopeful for success there?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, so one of the things that I'm most proud of
when it comes to sales in ourcommunities, in our communities,
in our portfolio is the simplefact that families and friends
are our number one referralsource.
That's awesome, which meansthat's the community saying we
support you, right, and we wantto live with you.
We want to interact with youright.
And then you start getting intothe digital sources In
(25:50):
healthcare, you see that Googlesearches are increasing almost
exponentially in the seniorindustry, senior care industry
specifically.
It used to not be that way.
If you were to go back and lookat the graph, it's pretty flat
and then it's pretty exponentialafter that.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
You know I haven't really been a big fan of Google
ads.
I think organic growth is moreimportant.
So being consistent, becausewhat people want to see is happy
, lots of activity, brightcommunities.
They want to see healthyindividuals and you want to
paint that picture of what youreally offer.
So Facebook is one of yourgreatest tools in the senior
(26:25):
care industry.
Facebook Instagram can be alsoa great tool.
So your Facebook lives rightand your videos and your photos,
boosting those, and if you'redoing an ad on there, obviously
you're making sure that you'resetting the, the specific
parameters to meet your idealresident, or whoever the
influencer is of that idealresident that you're trying to
(26:46):
attract.
But I think you you really inthe in the senior care industry,
for long-term success, you wantyour top referral source to be
families and friends yeah, yeah,getting to the point, and it's
just saying that you're doing agood job, like they.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Like I said, they trust you, they support you
enough to bring in another lovedone into the space.
Makes it, makes your job easierif you have.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
If you have, you know , 700 advocates out in the city
yeah, talking about how awesomeyou are yeah, that, that there's
what, what, what digital sourceof marketing is better than
that.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, I know and that's what, like I said, google
something that I.
It's like Google, you can buyfor keyword and things like that
.
But a lot of the times whenyou're buying for that keyword,
it's somebody that's already inthe buying phase and I've found
a lot of times like just metaand different ad spaces or
digital spaces.
Absolutely it's hard to get theright targeting, you know,
(27:40):
until they're like ready tostart doing, um, yeah, tours and
whatnot.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So yeah, so as long as you're ranking, like you know
, top three in your listings andyou're in the top three in your
map listings as well, right,yeah, I think you're going to be
okay in the digital space.
I think it's going to becomemore competitive over the next
couple of years, yeah, um, andyou're going to have to.
You're going to have to bebetter at understanding your
keywords and making sure thatyou're back linking correctly
(28:06):
and building enough credibility.
Your blogs are going to be comeeven more important.
Right, and so, but and so but.
For now, I think it's reallyimportant to focus on your
families and friends.
I think that's just where thepower is at.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And just asking ultimately, hey, do you have
anybody?
You know that you'd want tolive with you.
Yeah, absolutely.
Running short on time, thequestions I like to ask towards
the end what advice would yougive to somebody that's looking
to transition into, like a salesclient relations role within
the senior living space?
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, brand new, huh, brand new, fresh.
Don't take it too seriously.
Be consistent and make surethat you're being yourself Right
.
Most of the time you see peoplechange who they are.
Yeah, right, put on a littleyeah.
Right.
And they they dress up and theythey live this different life
(28:58):
at work than what's at home,having harmony between the two.
You shouldn't be any differentat work than you are at home.
That's how you can survive 40years.
That's how you survive, becauseimagine living two different
lifestyles.
Yeah, like that's that'sexhausting.
Yeah, so be confident inyourself.
Times Like that's that'sexhausting.
Yeah, so be confident inyourself.
You're going to add value whereyou are Right and your
(29:19):
personality.
Maybe you're not going to fit inin your first job, you know, as
in the sales industry, right,but that doesn't mean you're not
good at it.
You're going to have weaknesses.
Try again.
Yeah, right, be persistent,have grit.
Don't be afraid of failure,right, don't be afraid of the no
.
I think the most interestingthing when it comes to sales is
(29:40):
watching people address failureswhen they get a no.
How do they process it?
Well, what is there to process?
If you feel like the no waspremature, then go after it
again.
And what's wrong with another?
No, the no was premature, thengo after it again, right.
And what's wrong with anotherno, right.
Just be persistent and beyourself.
(30:00):
People will love you for whoyou are and they'll buy into you
for who you are and as as morepeople buy into you for who you
are and what you do, and I thinkyou'll gain momentum and that
momentum is just going tosnowball.
Yeah, it's going to be hard atfirst.
You're going to have to put ina lot of work, but that momentum
grows soon enough.
You're cruising, you're doingwell.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Love it, show up every day, be consistent,
believe in yourself and live thecharacteristics that you
actually have, rather thantrying to like put on, put
lipstick on a pig or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, and if you're not, and if you're struggling,
ask for help.
Right, there's so many peoplein the healthcare industry and
seniors, senior carespecifically.
There are people rooting foryou.
You just have to be braveenough and humble enough to ask
for help.
Yeah, and most people, you'd beamazed They'll.
They'll lift you up where youstand and they'll carry you
along the way.
Soon enough you'll be walking,running and then sprinting.
(30:51):
Yeah, you know, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I apologize about this.
We didn't get a bunch of timeto talk about SAL or UALA.
But the last question is whatare you excited about and
working on right now at SALmanagement?
And then part two what are youexcited about working on at the
UALA board?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, I'm excited.
You know there's alwaysopportunities in SAL In the
number of communities're at 16communities.
Right now we have the BeaumontAssisted Living out in Bountiful
.
It's undergone a huge remodel.
I'm super excited about that.
We took Utah's first assistedliving and have turned it into
something of a pearl inBountiful.
(31:30):
I just encourage you guys,whoever wants to come out, check
it out.
It's beautiful and I'm justhappy that we're able to help
preserve that community buildingin that community.
Yeah, it's amazing.
And then, as far as UALA isconcerned, you know I think you
don't know what you don't know.
So get involved in UALA.
(31:50):
You know, reach out, contact us, figure out what services we
have that we can provide you,figure out how we can support
you in your, in assisted livingcommunities.
It's a network.
We're here to support eachother.
Yeah, you know, one of thegreatest things we're fighting
right now, something to be awareof is the new choices waiver
and the rate adjustments rightnow.
So there's a lot of seniorsthat are vulnerable due to their
(32:14):
own financial decisions andthey could potentially not be
receiving the care that theyneed or even deserve.
And so we're fighting reallyhard on UALA to make sure that
new choice waiver.
Daily rate increases happen atthe legislative level.
That's huge.
We're super involved in that.
So if you want to be part ofthat effort and give us a holler
(32:35):
, as well as there's round tableevents that you can go to,
there's our annual conferences,semi-annual conferences that you
can go to.
There's hundreds of thousandsof people that are doing the
same thing we're doing all overthe state in the United States
as well, and this is just onesmall way that you can be part
of this big group and reallyfind people that have common
(32:57):
interest.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, thanks so much, cameron, for just coming on
today.
I love your passion, just whatyou stand for as a sales leader,
but also just a leader in thesenior living space and just
everything you're doing.
I'm excited to share this witheverybody.
I think, whether they are asalesperson or they manage
salespeople in the senior livingspace, there's just a lot of
gold nuggets today.
So
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