March 26, 2024 • 46 mins
Embark on a visionary exploration of senior living with Tod Petty, the marketing maestro at Fynn.io, as we unpack the seismic shifts in technology and healthcare that promise fulfilling futures for our elders. Discover how the industry is pivoting towards a value-based care model, emphasizing wellness and longevity, and why it's crucial to meet the impending housing demands of the next decade. John Hauber's conversation with Tod covers the essential role of data analytics, and the critical insights from his podcast, Senior Housing Unfiltered, arming investors with the knowledge to capitalize on the forthcoming senior housing boom.
Picture a world where managed Wi-Fi, RFID door locks, and digital signage are not just amenities but vital components in the ecosystem of senior living, enhancing the sensory experiences and overall well-being of residents. Witness the strategic implementation of these technologies through the lens of concierge sensory design and learn how these investments aren't merely future-proofing facilities but actively contributing to the success of aging gracefully and independently.
Listen in to grasp the profound implications of AI and healthcare partnerships in the senior living sector, where predictive analytics could become the norm, improving care and extending the ability of our aging population to live more autonomously. John and Tod discuss the synergy between senior living facilities and third-party healthcare services, where technology amplifies the capacity for predictive healthcare insights. Don't miss Tod's engaging narrative of his journey and influence within the industry, poised at the brink of a new era of innovation and growth.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
We want to live long and die short.
We don't want to live short anddie long.
And some of the older modelsit's like 65, 70, someone gets
diabetes, they get COPD, theyhave congestive heart failure
and they spend the next 20 yearsdying.
They have COPD, they havecongestive heart failure and
they spend the next 20 yearsdying.
(00:28):
We want to live robust, vibrantlives because we have the right
programming in the buildings,we have the right technology so
that you know we're doing realwell.
We live into our 80s and maybeI get ran over by the bus and
I'm gone and when the innovation, the technology, the healthcare
, all has to combine to givethem the opportunity not just to
be maintained and die but toage well and age successfully.
(00:51):
And let's slow this agingprocess down as much as we can
for a new generation of seniors.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Welcome to the Senior Housing Investors Podcast.
If you are an owner, operator,investor, developer or buyer of
senior housing, you've come tothe right place.
The best way to stay connectedwith us is to sign up for our
weekly newsletter athavenseniorinvestmentscom.
This podcast doesn't existwithout you, our community.
(01:26):
Thank you for listening andreach out to us anytime.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Welcome back everyone .
Today, john Haber has afascinating conversation with
Todd Petty.
Todd has an impressivebackground as the president, coo
and CEO of multiple largecompanies in the senior living
industry, such as Lloyd Jones,aviva Senior Living and Thrive
Senior Living.
Most recently, todd has becomethe Chief Marketing Officer of
(01:58):
Growth and Strategy for FinnTechnology.
Listen in as him and John diveinto multiple important topics
in senior living.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
John Thanks, kelsey.
Today we have an amazing guest.
His name is Todd Petty and Toddis the Chief Marketing Officer
at Fin Technology, a seniorhousing, healthcare data and
analytics company that optimizesresident well-being, cost and
NOI.
Todd is an enthusiastic andvisionary leader who drives
(02:30):
innovation, impact and solutionsin the sector.
A seasoned veteran in thesenior living industry of over
20 years, todd has successfullyoverseen all facets of
development, operations,marketing, acquisitions,
dispositions for the companieshe has led For the past 25 years
(02:50):
.
He has expanded and managedfour different senior living
portfolios, developedresort-style communities,
created a middle market solutionand implemented
state-of-the-art technology toenhance resident safety and
quality of life.
Todd blends both sales andoperations experience,
delivering a balanced approachof driving NOI, customer
(03:12):
experience and employeesatisfaction at the forefront of
the business.
Welcome to the show, todd.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Hey, John Pleasure being here.
What an honor to be with youand to be able to share with the
investors and all the guests ofyour podcast.
Thank you very much for theopportunity.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yes, and this is the first time I've had a guest on
that actually is a host ofanother podcast.
So give us a littleintroduction into Senior Housing
Unfiltered.
I understand you relaunched itand love to have a little
snippet real quick on what thatpodcast is about and how it
benefits the senior housingspace.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Well, yes, thank you, john.
I think it's very similar inits mission and what you're
trying to achieve and, havingspoken with you, to go out into
the market with a no sell,no-spend zone, if you will, to
try to provide value to themarket and give them an
understanding of the evolvinglandscape that is changing.
(04:11):
I mean, our goal is to make adifference in our hearers' lives
, to equip them with what webelieve is the emerging future,
because we need to get ready for2030.
The greatest opportunity of alifetime is before us.
We're out of housing in 2030.
And, with the senior housingchanging to a value-based care
(04:31):
model, the middle market hassuch a deep need now.
Senior Housing News calls themiddle market the new black Data
analytics is shifting into highgear.
We need predictive analytics.
All these things are emergingand we want to help guide people
to what that might look like soevery person can participate in
the boom of senior housing inthe years to come.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, that's a great mission.
As Nick mentioned in one oftheir reports, 775,000 units
need to be built brand new,built by 2030.
To be built brand new, built by2030.
We put out a paper called $1trillion worth of investment is
(05:12):
needed by 2050 to cover housingfor our most vulnerable
populations.
Do you have anything you wantto address as it relates to that
?
Because you were a developer,you have developed, and so how,
in this environment, withinterest rates pretty high, how
do we entice developers to comeinto the marketplace and develop
product for great operators,great owners, great investors in
(05:36):
this space?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, great question, john, and I think the key is
that we have a lot ofinformation that's being shared
today and much of it ishistorical, which is good.
We look at what happened andwhat we needed to change and
what has gone on historicallyand that's reporting, and that's
good.
And then we have information ofwhere we're at right now.
(05:59):
We kind of just live in thatzone of high interest rates,
floating debt.
In that zone of high interestrates, floating debt can't get
deals done, but we don't reallylook at beyond that.
When this thing unfreezes andthings change, where are we at?
Well, we were already short ofhousing in 2030, going into the
pandemic, because everybody's 65and older in 2030.
(06:22):
Every baby boomer now is 65 andolder and there's not enough
housing with everything in thepipeline five years ago to meet
the need and we were all excitedand people were jumping in.
So then, as pandemic hits anddevelopment stalls way below
what was anticipated, it stalledit and then, with the rising
(06:43):
interest rates shutting downmost of the development world,
we're stalled even more.
So now we're even furtherbehind of what housing was going
to be needed in 2030 as thebaby boomer explosion enters the
market and is in need of seniorhousing.
So not only that that we havethis great need that's even
bigger now for investors toanticipate, but we also have a
(07:08):
very different demographic group.
Years ago, you could look atthe trajectory and there were
maybe four or five models.
There were people moving intoactive adult 55, it was new.
There were people moving intoindependent living and then they
went to assisted living andthen maybe memory care, maybe
(07:31):
skilled, and it was a verylinear line.
Well, all that's compressed nowbecause the baby boomers are
not settling for the traditionalhousing that their moms and
dads settled for.
So now we have people moving inyounger, for lifestyle and 55
plus even independent living,whose goal is successfully age
and never have to move out ofthat environment into assisted
(07:51):
living.
They want to age in place, theyknow that resources are
available for innovation to keepthem there, using innovation in
the way AI is going to changethe world and they want more
resort type environments, moreconnection with one another.
We have explosion, though, ofpeople that are living longer as
well, and, statistically,everybody over 85, one in two
(08:15):
has dementia, according to theAlzheimer's Association, and one
in three has Alzheimer's, andmost of the folks we know are
moving into assisted living.
They are needing they havememory loss and they need care,
and they're declining withcomorbidities and they need an
environment where they can agesafely and securely and have
some successful aging with hopeof family reconciliation as they
(08:39):
get going into the sunset oftheir life and passing on.
And it's a very different modeland all these things are
becoming very compressed astechnology allows us to age in
place.
And third, I would say thatinvestors that are looking for a
opportunity to be part of avery strategic shift.
(09:00):
We know that because of thechanges in regulations, with
legislatures allowing people toage longer in assisted living
with a primary goal of nothaving their beneficiaries and,
quite frankly, their loved onesgo to skilled nursing, the
skilled nursing model is goingaway.
We would rather our loved onesage longer and stay in assisted
(09:25):
living, which means regulationsare having to change slightly.
A health care model is emergingand not only that, but CMS is
now encouraging people to age inplace and help prevent episodic
health care events.
I mean, the traditional modelwas we don't really do a whole
(09:47):
lot until someone has an event.
They go to the emergency room,they're admitted, they stay a
week in the hospital, spend$30,000.
We get them back to baselineand then they go home again.
And the new model that'semerging is if we can monitor
the residents through theirvital signs or through their
(10:07):
therapeutic management orthrough telehealth, and, as
machine learning helps uspredict residents decline, these
things, with home health andother things we can have in the
assisted living community willhelp us predict and prevent an
episodic healthcare event, thussaving Medicare money and us
(10:30):
participating ultimately in someof the reimbursement that
they're going to reward us,because they would rather pay to
keep us out of the hospitalthan expensive hospital
adventures.
So all these changes offer agreat opportunity for investors
that want to come into the spacethat has a very strong long
model of good returns butshifting slightly to a
(10:53):
healthcare model, and those thatare prepared and those that are
equipped will have greatopportunity to have to be part
of something that there'll bemore demand than there probably
will be housing in the next fewyears.
John.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So you bring up a great point as it relates to
change, and so the model is onthe verge of changing.
Wellness versus health care,successful aging versus managing
decline currently within the ALIL memory care communities that
(11:32):
enhance resident life andreally enhance their well-being.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, that's a great question, John.
I think it is so interesting towatch our industry and I think
human nature and I includemyself in all this.
We seem to want to get in oneditch or the other and the goal
(11:59):
is to be moderate.
Let all things be done inmoderation to hit that middle
stride.
And I remember 14 years ago, asthe internet, ipads, computers
were becoming more prevalent, wewere having discussions at some
of the variety of the tradeassociations of is this a trend?
Should we jump on this wave wesee coming in, or should we not?
And the conventional wisdom wasno, we're not going to get
(12:21):
involved in this, becauseseniors don't like tech and
innovation.
They will never use these iPads.
It's expensive to put Wi-Fi inour buildings.
And why do it?
Our residents just want to becomfortable three meals a day, a
couple of snacks and goodactivities, and that was a great
model, I guess, for the pensiongeneration.
But wow, did things change?
And the folks that were forwardlooking enough to say you know
(12:44):
what?
I think we need to make achange here, and they begin to
bring in, brought in thetechnology, and begin to put in
Wi-Fi, campus-wide Wi-Fi, thingslike RFID door locks or easy
ingress and egress of the doorswith a card, just like hotels.
Campus-wide Wi-Fi that anybodycould log into and have good
(13:06):
bandwidth and download and getto the internet access control
around the building to secure it, even real-time location
services so we know where ourresidents are at.
Being able to put digitalsignage in to broadcast what
we're doing in our communities,to get credit for it and
reassure the caregivers and theloved ones mom's having a great
experience here, loved ones,mom's having a great experience
(13:27):
here.
Maybe music throughout, evenaromatherapy, all affects the
five physical senses.
I like to call it conciergesensory design, because all
these things contribute to ourbiochemistry.
They release chemicals in usthat make us feel good in a lot
of different ways.
And as these things enteredinto the communities, we changed
(13:51):
the climate and the atmosphereof what was going into senior
housing and people saw the valueof it.
I think people said, look, wegot to get into this because
everyone else is in it likes towait.
I kind of like to see the wavecoming in, john.
If I see the wave coming, Ireally like to get on it and
(14:18):
ride it.
I kind of like to own it andsay we participated in bringing
it.
I'm more that guy than the guywaiting on the beach for the
wave to hit.
And now we've got a pool ofwater and then we're all jumping
in.
But seeing around 2014, 2015,the thought thinking was oh,
this is the way to go.
Innovations come into the spaceand we're going to put
everything we can in thebuildings.
And so people brought in goodstuff.
(14:39):
People brought in sensors todocument movement, and we've got
cameras to document when aperson falls and look back on it
.
We have devices that will talkto you, alexa.
We have all different types oftechnology in the building and
we almost were just overwhelmedwith the technology that came in
the buildings and maybe aheadof the time, because not every
(15:03):
senior can embrace it.
Everybody's different.
And so where I see a realsystemic shift, if you will, of
what we need to do is I would,rather than spending a lot of
money on technology and bringanything out over time brings
tremendous value to the investorthat's holding and wants a
(15:35):
building that is timeless, orfor a person that wants to build
a building and have itpositioned in the next few years
for someone to come in andpurchase that building at a good
multiplier, and someone has agreat asset and they can then
grow as the technology changes.
And what I'm speakingspecifically of and I don't want
to digress too much here butI'm talking about managed Wi-Fi.
(15:58):
Quite frankly, I know folks whocome into the space and really
excited that they're bringingguest Wi-Fi in, that it's
campus-wide.
But I've tried to log onsometimes, john, and it's a
download of two megabytes.
I can't even it won't download.
Too many people are on it.
But if we could put in andinvest the rather than buying a
(16:18):
lot of devices, invest thedollars in managed Wi-Fi in a
building.
Now I can put managed Wi-Fi inthe building and every one of my
residents that comes in canhave their own firewalled Wi-Fi
access and I can give them 50megs of download and I can even
make it membership-based.
(16:38):
If I'm an active adult, if I'min independent living, I could
provide a standard gold packageand give you 50 megs of download
and 130 channels and maybeaccess to your community during
the day.
But if you want the platinummembership, it's $395 more.
Maybe it's 100 megs of downloadand maybe it's 260 channels.
(17:00):
You have 24-hour access.
Membership-based is another wayof changing the way the world
we're in.
But once you have managed Wi-Fi, then you can help someone
successfully age John, evensomeone moving into a 55 plus or
an independent living.
I'll give you this one quickexample and I'll pause and move
on.
But a person moving into 55plus and all of a sudden has a
(17:22):
need for med management Like Ican't keep up with my meds and
the daughter, the son's theresaying we got to move Todd out
and he's got to go to AL wherethey provide medication Done
correctly, I could be partneredwith a pharmacy and say, hey,
let me get John from thepharmacy down the road.
He partners with us.
I want to have a conversationwith him.
And John could speak with themand say I'm going to put this
(17:45):
great box on your wall in yourroom.
It's tied to your managed Wi-Fi.
We're going to package yourmedicine for about $1,000 a
month.
It will drop your meds, justlike Wemo turns the lights on
three times a day and all youhave to take it Todd, and you
don't need to move out of here.
And then, when I do the math,John and I'm doing $1,000 for my
(18:06):
meds.
That's a lot of money, but arent and a 55 plus plus the
$1,000 meds is still $2,000 thanassisted living, and that gives
me an opportunity to age inplace and not go to assisted
living until I have to.
And there'll be a day, if I livelong enough, I'll want to go
there, but in the meantime, theshift is let's help our
(18:27):
residents age successfully.
Let's help our residents agewith confidence.
And I love this book I readyears ago.
It talks about we want to livelong and die short.
We don't want to live short anddie long.
And some of the older modelsit's like 65, 70, someone gets
(18:48):
diabetes, they get COPD, theyhave congestive heart failure
and they spend the next 20 yearsdying.
We want to live robust, vibrantlives because we have the right
programming in the buildings,we have the right technology so
that you know we're doing realwell.
We live into our 80s and maybe Iget ran over by the bus and I'm
gone and when the innovation,the technology, the health care,
(19:10):
all has to combine to give themthe opportunity not just to be
maintained and die but to agewell and age successfully.
And let's slow this agingprocess down as much as we can
for a new generation of seniors.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
That's great.
I mean the bottom line babyboomers want to live a longer
life that is disease free andwhere they can really have a
purpose in their lives.
So if I were an investor, adeveloper, and I'm going to
develop my first facility and Icame to you, todd, and said, hey
(19:46):
, todd, you've got a lot ofexperience on the development
side, operational side.
Todd and said, hey, todd,you've got a lot of experience
on the development side,operational side, all aspects of
senior housing what would youtell them If you were also part
of that investment group?
How would you spell out exactlywhat you would do today to be
prepared for the future babyboomers to come into the
marketplace?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Well, I'm going to assume, John, that when I'm
working with this investmentgroup it's like someone like you
.
So I already know that you havea tremendous building that has
great flows for the residents,it has tremendous common area
space, it has lots of lightingand all the things we know from
a building real estatestandpoint.
We need to successfully age age.
(20:31):
Not everybody understands that,but folks that have done the
research understand that thereare certain things that can be
done in a building that reallyenhance the experience.
The building can make a bigdifference and I like to call
that progressive engineeredenvironments where we have large
hallways.
We have air turning over in thebuilding frequently, you know,
to mitigate pathogens in the air.
We have a lot of lighting thatcreates vitamin K and helps with
(20:55):
winter depression.
Quite frankly, because thelights are coming in, there's a
lot of safe places to walk tocreate movement, because we know
steps.
We know people that walk everyday.
Just 20 minutes twice a week isalmost equivalent to an SSRI
antidepressant that a doctormight prescribe for you.
So why don't we walk?
(21:15):
And we can monitor it and wehave walking clubs.
So I'm going to assume ourbuilding looks like that.
The second thing I want theinvestors to help me with and
let me to deploy is I want tobring in a successful aging
platform.
I want to be able to bring insomething that takes all things
(21:36):
into consideration of ourresidents, to give them the best
opportunity to succeed.
And if you look at the marketright now, john and I appreciate
what we've done, but mostpeople, even at their websites,
what they're advertising thatthey do are the regulations
Three meals, two snacks, 24-hourwatchful oversight, know the
general condition of theresident and get help when they
(21:58):
need it and a secure and safeplace for the resident.
I mean, that's what the lawrequires and I appreciate them
as amenities that we're focusingon.
But there needs to be awellness plan, not just
oversight.
There needs to be a wellnessplan that can give us the very
best opportunity to achievesuccessful aging.
(22:18):
So I'd want a plan that couldhelp me monitor and give the
potential for a resident tosleep well so they're getting
their deep, their REM sleep,their light sleep.
Sleep contributes to mood,sleep overcomes depression and
sleep affects our biochemistry.
Then we want to program in placefor hydration.
(22:40):
The number one reason for aresident leaving an assisted
living and ended up in anemergency room is they're
dehydrated.
Dehydration can lead to UTI.
Dehydrated dehydration can leadto uti urinary tract infection
which leads to exacerbateddementia, which looks like it's
memory loss or dementia,long-term dementia, and that's
what the staff usually jumps tothe conclusion, but it's short
(23:03):
term with a uti.
But can we avoid it all?
Together with a hydrationprogram which might be as simple
as serving a glass of water atall, the residents' meal, just
not their beverage of choice.
I want software that will helpverify the delivery of
medication and, with AI comingand maybe we talk about this I
(23:24):
want software that's going tocontinually analyze my
residents' mood and behavior,their vital signs and let me
know before they decline so Ican intervene, because I do not
want an episodic healthcareevent and them having to go to
the hospital.
I want to track movementthrough really cool looking
(23:44):
watches or sensors because wehave to keep the residents
moving.
I mean, harvard Health did astudy and showed that early
onset dementia at 55 and 60years of age was reversed when
the client started walking.
Because they were verysedentary, because walking
(24:04):
created blood flow to thefrontal lobe cortex.
It created more blood flow thathelped feed the brain.
That reduced the dementia.
I want to set goals for themand again, this is part of that
concierge sensory design.
Not just put digital signage inthe building for the sake of.
Oh, we're going to give themannouncements and the hotel has
(24:25):
it, and isn't it cool?
Which is what I hear from manydevelopers.
But no, we're putting indigital signage because
systematically andprogrammatically, we're going to
take pictures and images of theresidents participating in
events and singing with BarryMantle or Neil Diamond, of
having their birthday celebrated, being in the walking club,
because I want credit for it.
(24:47):
And when my families come inand maybe mom doesn't remember
last night when Neil Diamondsang Sweet Caroline to them,
they already forgot the familycan see it and when they see it
they go wow, this is awesome.
And it helps cast thoseimaginations down in the
family's mind when mom maybe isnot totally accurate of what
she's saying.
(25:07):
And they know this is the verybest place for mom.
Brain, healthy nutrition I'm notgoing to make them give up
their hot dogs and hamburgers,but I think the new generation
is understanding health and weknow there are foods that can
feed our brain.
Health.
And then positive psychology.
The entire environment has tohelp the senior have positive
(25:30):
psychology, an elevated mood,just broadcasting on digital
signage that you're going tohave the mariachi band there for
Cinco de Mayo and thenannouncing it every day, even if
they're like, oh, I'm justtired of hearing about this.
I mean that is setting goals,that is giving our loved ones
(25:56):
goals of something that's goingto happen.
And when goals are in play, theneuroscience shows that
dopamine is released in theirbodies.
With no goals, no dopamine,they may have the serotonin and
they may be chill, but you and I, you know, and I know you, john
, the minute you're finishedwith goal one, you already got
another goal, and I figured youprobably, once you achieve the
goal, you're like you know, Iwant to do more, you want to be
(26:19):
on the next thing because ofthose happy chemicals that drive
you and give you quality oflife.
So these are some of the things.
A successful aging, a wellnessprogram, must live in the
community so that the residentsare attracted to it, they
participate, that and we givethem an opportunity to age well.
That's one thing that I wouldlike to do.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, that's fantastic, and you know, what's
interesting is that, you know,here I am at my age and I've
embraced not only technology,but I've embraced a ring on my
finger that tracks my sleep.
(27:01):
It gives me scores.
About a month ago it told me,two days before I got sick, that
I was going to get sick becausemy body temperature went up.
Then I was introduced byanother owner operator in the
senior housing space, who alsobelieves in wellness, to a
(27:21):
company called Viome, v-i-o-m-e,and Viome takes your blood, it
takes your fecal matter and ittakes your saliva.
And one thing I didn'tunderstand is that your gut, it
has enzymes and everything else,and if your mouth is not
healthy, then that could affectyour health.
(27:42):
I didn't know that and so, thankGod, my test came back that I
had a healthy mouth.
But basically, when they didthis testing, they actually
formulated a plan for me and aplan to take a very specialized
for my body probiotics andprebiotics.
It showed me exactly the foods Ihave to stay away from.
(28:04):
It told me the foods I shouldbe eating and it told me the
foods that I should moderate andnot eat as much as I used to.
And then it gave me a vitaminmixture that was specific for my
body, and I believe that thisis the future of wellness within
senior housing, where we bringsomeone in as resident and
(28:27):
they're tested and then the careis formulated based on them
alone.
I don't know how much thatwould cost, I don't know whether
or not that is feasible whenpeople are coming and going, but
is there anything you canaddress on that side, because we
have artificial intelligencecoming along that is speeding up
(28:48):
the ability to create drugsmuch quicker than in the past.
So how is AI, personalizedmedicine, values-based health
care going to affect theexperience of our populations
that are living in our housingthe experience of our
populations that are living inour housing.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
John, I am convinced that machine learning,
artificial intelligence, is theanswer to the industry woes as
they exist before, and industrywoes specifically defined as how
do I keep residents longer inmy communities rather than
shorter because they're?
How do I have less turnover inmy units?
How can I have a reputation ofwellness versus monitoring
(29:37):
decline?
I mean, it's the difference.
I mean we're used to managingdecline and we want to now shift
to be discerning, predictive,proactive and prescriptive is
everything you just said, withjust one element.
So artificial intelligenceright now is multiplying every
(29:59):
eight months and, even thoughit's a little clunky right now,
what really is going to put thison?
This will be no different thanprocessing speed that doubled
every eight months and we'redoing something with the iPhone
now that couldn't be done with amainframe IBM computer that
took, you know, two rooms up,affordable because Medicare's
(30:24):
purposeful shift into agingsuccessfully preemptive care to
reduce cost.
So what I see on the horizonand I really have a passion for
the ownership groups out therethat have three or less
buildings I only say thatbecause that's 75% of our senior
(30:46):
housing industry, john becausethey are trying to figure out a
way, how they make it, and thebig guys kind of have deep
pockets and there's maybe not asconcerned, but how do they make
it?
And I believe all that everyonecan play in the space stay in
the space by incorporating AI.
So let me be more definitive onthat.
(31:07):
Algorithms are now makingalgorithms and the advantage
that AI has is so far beyond usand we should embrace it.
Even three years ago, when mywife said maybe we should get a
self-driving car, I was like noway, I don't trust machines.
I trust me because I have along time on this planet and
(31:29):
I've been involved in a lot oftraffic and I think I can drive
better.
But how short-sighted of me.
A car that learned something byhaving an accident or
identifying the road conditionor traffic patterns, and maybe
it has an accident.
That information is going tothe mothership and every baby
born that's a self-driving caris going to download what that
(31:52):
mothership knows.
That's the beauty of algorithms.
And so, as we move forward,machines are going to be able to
do the things, john, that ourstaff cannot do.
Be able to do the things, john,that our staff cannot do or our
staff doesn't want to do, or wedon't have the labor dollars in
(32:16):
the budget for the staff to doit and our staffs don't want to
be looking at data analytics andgraphs.
They don't have time.
That's not what they'redesigned to do.
They want to love and care forthe resident so as our residents
move in now, so we havesolutions.
I mean, obviously I love mysolution.
My solution is predictive ofthe resident's mood and behavior
, forms a baseline and when itchanges it alerts that the
(32:37):
resident is declining.
So the resident caregiver cannow address it and we provide a
playbook.
If you add remote patientmonitoring, like we're now
monitoring our.
So I use Withings at the househere.
So it monitors my sleep with apad Every morning.
It tells me my time in REM, mytime in deep and my time in
(32:58):
light.
How many times am I up, was Isnoring and what's my sleep
score?
Withings tells me my steps fromApple.
How many steps did I walk?
My scale is telling me myvascular age based on electrical
current going through my bodywhen I step on the scale.
It's got a six channel ECGthat's telling me how my heart
(33:20):
rate is doing.
It's telling me my bodysegmental isn't right.
It's telling me my BMIResidents can have their blood
pressure checked, we can checktheir saturation, we can check
their temperature and all thiscan.
Now you know and again I'mtrying to you know you share
this with the industry and say,oh well, I tried it.
(33:41):
They tried it three years ago,it didn't work, it's complicated
, we couldn't set it up.
But I'm telling you, thetechnology is so changing that
these devices come cellular.
Now You've got to have abuilding that will promote
cellular signal, which hasanother story, but they just can
turn on and they'll talk tocellular.
But that data can be gatheredand it can go to a doctor and
(34:02):
the doctor can bill for it.
And can be gathered and it cango to a doctor and the doctor
can bill for it.
And then the doctor can puteyes on the resident in the
building clinically and if mysoftware tells you the
resident's at risk, I can giveit to the rehab, the in-house
rehab that you designed the roomfor.
That's your rehab and yourbuilding for your residents and
they can admit the patientresident to rehab.
(34:24):
And now they have clinicaloversight and their folks are in
your building and they'reteaming with you and they can be
there, because you just don'thave 10% in rehab, you've got
40% and then you can.
They can monitor whether yourresidents are falling or not,
and that's remote therapeuticmanagement.
The doctor can bill for that.
Whether they're having a declineor not, then if they're testing
(34:52):
with your product here, which Iwant to learn about, and the
families can pay for that, thenwe can give them a specialized
diet.
We are equipping them with suchsolutions that we never came
close to having.
And even though we haven'tfigured aging out yet, we can
age success.
We all know this.
My life changed when I startedwalking.
I mean, it just changed mylearning, even though I was
(35:13):
older, just exponentiallychanges the more I walk.
But anyway, these are thethings that if we can systemize
this, you can put it in yourbuilding and basically be ready
and offered value-based care.
That's where we're going and Iwould say the only thing to
remember is these strategiestake a system programmatically,
(35:36):
but it probably does take havingthe right technology in the
building.
You can't build a blockbuilding not have a distributed
antenna system and then try tohave telehealth, because your
cellular won't work.
But last thing I'll say aboutthis John, a few years ago,
before the pandemic, people wereshying away from telehealth
(35:57):
because there were very strictrequirements for Medicare in
order for that to happen.
You had to pay dollars to bewith a telehealth company, to
have a certain protocol, toprovide a firewall and meet
HIPAA requirements.
Well, pandemic hit and changedall that.
Cms said I don't care if youget on an iPhone with your
doctor on FaceTime, if you can,he can bill for the telehealth
(36:18):
and you can have him.
That is your visit.
Again, this is another strategyto keep our residents from
having to go out visit thedoctor.
Usually, if they go out of thehospital and return, it takes
them a while to get back in theswing of things if they return.
So all these solutions, no onehas systemized this yet, john.
No one has created a model.
We're still kind of in the oh,we're going to create a
(36:40):
hospitality model and I'm gladof that.
But this is what the residentsneed.
They need wellness becauseotherwise they'll be in a
beautiful building declining andwe won't be able to do anything
about it.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Well, you bring up a great point as it relates to
values-based care, and I didn'tknow what this meant until I got
a phone call from a doctor andhis name was Gordon Chen and he
and his brother started acompany called Chen Med after
going through with their fatherFather got cancer, I believe and
(37:13):
having even, as doctors, havingto go through the health care
system, and what they?
What they figured out is, ifthey stay close with love and
compassion, close to theirpatients, meaning monitoring on
a daily basis, they actuallyreduced type 2 diabetes.
They were able to make surethat they checked up on
(37:35):
individuals who may have hadheart issues and whether or not
they're taking their meds.
What I'm getting to is what youexactly said is how do we stay
on top of the daily lives andhealth and wellness of our
residents?
And ChenMed?
They did it extremely well.
They have a book out therecalled the Calling and it
(37:57):
describes this model and theirvision, when Gordon was speaking
with me, is how do they bringthat same model that has been
proven extremely successful bytheir company and a number of
other companies?
How do they bring thatvalues-based model into senior
housing?
Because they believe that ifyou do do that, you're going to
(38:18):
have a mixture of healthcare andliving, which then brings about
wellness and everything youspoke about in regards to your
spirit, your mind, your body,creating a wonderful life within
those communities.
So do you want to riff on thatany more?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, just a little bit, John.
I would say that the componentsare already available for that
owner-operator to bring it inand get ready, because it's
connecting with the third-partyhealthcare continuum
infrastructure that alwaysexists.
It's partnering with them.
You know, it's having oneposition, one person in the
community, whoever that is,meeting with these folks,
(39:00):
soliciting their participationin the community and giving them
business in exchange for thembecoming real partners, adopting
the culture that you expect inyour building and partnering
with the right people andcommitting to them, as long as
they are replicating thatenvironment of life, that you're
going to continue using them.
(39:21):
It's a win-win for everybody.
And now you're doing what you dobest with an assisted living
license or no license, which is,you know, the meals, the
activities, the engagement, therobust environment.
That's what you know.
The real estate, that's whatwe're doing.
But then we have a robust rehabteam taking care of the rest.
(39:41):
You've got doc physician groupsthat are overseeing the
clinical care.
You have soliciting ministry tocome into the building.
You're soliciting pharmacy.
You're taking subject matterexperts making members of your
team and producing a goodquality product for your
residents to age in place.
So it's not that you have tocreate it.
I personally don't want to getin those businesses and I don't
(40:04):
know many people that get inthem, that are in the assisted
living space that are successful.
Let's partner with them andhelp our residents age longer
and stay in pace longer anddrive value for investors on the
real estate side.
That's what I want to do.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
That's a great, great mission, and so is there any
question?
I haven't asked you that.
I should have asked you thatyou'd want to talk about.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah, the only.
Thing.
I think, I may have mentionedthis, but I want to maybe
summarize here on AI, because Iknow there's a lot of confusion
in the market on AI.
You know what we've had in thepast has been fine.
I mean, we've had systems thatcollect data data repositories,
if you will and maybe they'regood at taking that data and
(40:52):
putting it on a dashboard so youcan look at it.
Maybe they're good atcollecting it easy, I don't know
.
I think most systems needdisruption.
They're old interfaces and Ithink we need a modern version.
So I call that dataintelligence, not AI.
They call it AI, but real AI ismachines in the background,
(41:15):
algorithms looking at the data.
So we're not having to look atit on a dashboard.
We can, but it's looking at.
Is the resident declining?
Is their mood and behaviorchanging?
Oh, it's changed for the lasttwo weeks at 2 pm and they're
not coming out of their room andthere may be and this is a
(41:38):
memory care resident, there maybe a sundowning syndrome here,
or wow, we've got a greatresident here.
Except when caregiver D is inthe room, their mood and
behavior goes way down.
What's going on there?
Well, could be a trainingsession, or maybe caregiver D
needs to not be in the room, but, Ms Jones, they just don't get
along.
But we need the machines toanalyze this data and then
(42:02):
everything needs to gopredictive, so that the machines
are doing the work.
We're providing care, but nowit's predicting the residents
that are declining.
It's predicting there might bean episodic healthcare event.
You're not having to go in andlook at the data in your nurse
to figure it out, becausethey're not looking at charts,
they're not looking at X Y axis,they don't understand the data,
(42:22):
they don't have time for it.
So AI will replace things thatwe don't want to do, and when I
go into our communities, Iusually vacuum.
It's a great example to setthat.
I'd be willing to do that.
A lot of people don't want tovacuum, but there are robots
that will vacuum at nightsilently, that know the exact
pattern of the common areas.
Let the robots do it and thenhire the people that want to
(42:43):
love and care for the resident.
So I think it's really importantthat we understand that AI is
going to change the world,probably like no other thing
introduced to us, and I love howthe CBO, the Chief Business
Officer, Growth Officer atGoogle, said you know, 15 years
from now.
At this rate, we're going to beon an island and he said one or
(43:04):
two things are going to behappening.
John, we're going to beenjoying our pina coladas and
the machines are going to bedoing all the work.
They're going to be enjoyinglife with everyone else because
the machines are just running.
You know the planet and all isgood.
Or, if we don't ethically buildit right, we'll be hiding from
the machines.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
But one way or the other it's coming, so get ready.
I heard a quote from Elon Musk.
He basically said in the futurethere is going to be universal
income, but it is going to be avery high income.
And that was great to hearbecause, truly, we are on the
verge of one of the greatestcompute eras in our lifetimes
(43:46):
and unbelievable what's going tohappen over the next five years
.
So I'll give you a littletidbit here.
Okay, they're already reversingaging in mice and they're
starting to test chimpanzeesusing various modalities at the
molecular level, along withspecific drugs.
So you and I are sitting hereon a video speaking and you can
(44:08):
see that how I look today couldbe how I look at 120 years old
Could be we never know, but it'schanging that quickly.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Well, you know, what that tells us is that we have to
be ready for this changebecause it's coming, and our
senior housing products mustreflect what that might look
like when the change comes, toprovide these environments of
life rather than managingdecline.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Amen.
I've been preaching that forthe last six years.
I go back to the baby boomers.
They always wanted to live incommunes, right?
So here comes baby boomers.
We're going to give you thecompound you always wanted.
So, todd, how do people get ahold of you if they wanted to
reach out to you and speak more?
Speaker 1 (44:53):
I've got it all up at LinkedIn.
They can go to Todd Petty atLinkedIn and my email address
there, my telephone number'sthere and I love to post, you
know, at LinkedIn.
I try to bring value to theaudience and make a difference.
They can certainly get hold ofme there and I'd love to have a
conversation with them.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah, it's been a pleasure, Todd, and Todd is
spelled T-O-D.
I've been following Todd sincea very you know for a while I
think ever since six years, forsix years or so and I just sat
there and said Todd just putsout really great information on
LinkedIn and I always read it.
I always just I have lovedwatching what you've done and
(45:33):
was kind of, let's say, a littlejealous that you went over to
Lloyd Jones and I didn't get youor it wasn't timing to reach
out and bring you on board hereat Haven.
But I appreciate you being areal great thought leader in the
industry.
I've enjoyed our conversationtoday and look forward to
continuing collaboration betweenyou and I as we move into the
(45:56):
next 10 years in this space.
And so thanks again and have agreat day, todd.
Thank you, john.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Appreciate the opportunity of the show,
appreciate all that you're doingto senior out in the Todd.
Thank you, John.
Appreciate the opportunity ofthe show.
Appreciate all that you'redoing to senior out in the space
.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Thank, you See ya.
We want to live long and die short.
We don't want to live short anddie long.
And some of the older modelsit's like 65, 70, someone gets
diabetes, they get COPD, theyhave congestive heart failure
and they spend the next 20 yearsdying.
They have COPD, they havecongestive heart failure and
they spend the next 20 yearsdying.
(00:28):
We want to live robust, vibrantlives because we have the right
programming in the buildings,we have the right technology so
that you know we're doing realwell.
We live into our 80s and maybeI get ran over by the bus and
I'm gone and when the innovation, the technology, the healthcare
, all has to combine to givethem the opportunity not just to
be maintained and die but toage well and age successfully.
(00:51):
And let's slow this agingprocess down as much as we can
for a new generation of seniors.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Welcome to the Senior Housing Investors Podcast.
If you are an owner, operator,investor, developer or buyer of
senior housing, you've come tothe right place.
The best way to stay connectedwith us is to sign up for our
weekly newsletter athavenseniorinvestmentscom.
This podcast doesn't existwithout you, our community.
(01:26):
Thank you for listening andreach out to us anytime.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Welcome back everyone .
Today, john Haber has afascinating conversation with
Todd Petty.
Todd has an impressivebackground as the president, coo
and CEO of multiple largecompanies in the senior living
industry, such as Lloyd Jones,aviva Senior Living and Thrive
Senior Living.
Most recently, todd has becomethe Chief Marketing Officer of
(01:58):
Growth and Strategy for FinnTechnology.
Listen in as him and John diveinto multiple important topics
in senior living.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
John Thanks, kelsey.
Today we have an amazing guest.
His name is Todd Petty and Toddis the Chief Marketing Officer
at Fin Technology, a seniorhousing, healthcare data and
analytics company that optimizesresident well-being, cost and
NOI.
Todd is an enthusiastic andvisionary leader who drives
(02:30):
innovation, impact and solutionsin the sector.
A seasoned veteran in thesenior living industry of over
20 years, todd has successfullyoverseen all facets of
development, operations,marketing, acquisitions,
dispositions for the companieshe has led For the past 25 years
(02:50):
.
He has expanded and managedfour different senior living
portfolios, developedresort-style communities,
created a middle market solutionand implemented
state-of-the-art technology toenhance resident safety and
quality of life.
Todd blends both sales andoperations experience,
delivering a balanced approachof driving NOI, customer
(03:12):
experience and employeesatisfaction at the forefront of
the business.
Welcome to the show, todd.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Hey, John Pleasure being here.
What an honor to be with youand to be able to share with the
investors and all the guests ofyour podcast.
Thank you very much for theopportunity.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yes, and this is the first time I've had a guest on
that actually is a host ofanother podcast.
So give us a littleintroduction into Senior Housing
Unfiltered.
I understand you relaunched itand love to have a little
snippet real quick on what thatpodcast is about and how it
benefits the senior housingspace.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Well, yes, thank you, john.
I think it's very similar inits mission and what you're
trying to achieve and, havingspoken with you, to go out into
the market with a no sell,no-spend zone, if you will, to
try to provide value to themarket and give them an
understanding of the evolvinglandscape that is changing.
(04:11):
I mean, our goal is to make adifference in our hearers' lives
, to equip them with what webelieve is the emerging future,
because we need to get ready for2030.
The greatest opportunity of alifetime is before us.
We're out of housing in 2030.
And, with the senior housingchanging to a value-based care
(04:31):
model, the middle market hassuch a deep need now.
Senior Housing News calls themiddle market the new black Data
analytics is shifting into highgear.
We need predictive analytics.
All these things are emergingand we want to help guide people
to what that might look like soevery person can participate in
the boom of senior housing inthe years to come.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, that's a great mission.
As Nick mentioned in one oftheir reports, 775,000 units
need to be built brand new,built by 2030.
To be built brand new, built by2030.
We put out a paper called $1trillion worth of investment is
(05:12):
needed by 2050 to cover housingfor our most vulnerable
populations.
Do you have anything you wantto address as it relates to that
?
Because you were a developer,you have developed, and so how,
in this environment, withinterest rates pretty high, how
do we entice developers to comeinto the marketplace and develop
product for great operators,great owners, great investors in
(05:36):
this space?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, great question, john, and I think the key is
that we have a lot ofinformation that's being shared
today and much of it ishistorical, which is good.
We look at what happened andwhat we needed to change and
what has gone on historicallyand that's reporting, and that's
good.
And then we have information ofwhere we're at right now.
(05:59):
We kind of just live in thatzone of high interest rates,
floating debt.
In that zone of high interestrates, floating debt can't get
deals done, but we don't reallylook at beyond that.
When this thing unfreezes andthings change, where are we at?
Well, we were already short ofhousing in 2030, going into the
pandemic, because everybody's 65and older in 2030.
(06:22):
Every baby boomer now is 65 andolder and there's not enough
housing with everything in thepipeline five years ago to meet
the need and we were all excitedand people were jumping in.
So then, as pandemic hits anddevelopment stalls way below
what was anticipated, it stalledit and then, with the rising
(06:43):
interest rates shutting downmost of the development world,
we're stalled even more.
So now we're even furtherbehind of what housing was going
to be needed in 2030 as thebaby boomer explosion enters the
market and is in need of seniorhousing.
So not only that that we havethis great need that's even
bigger now for investors toanticipate, but we also have a
(07:08):
very different demographic group.
Years ago, you could look atthe trajectory and there were
maybe four or five models.
There were people moving intoactive adult 55, it was new.
There were people moving intoindependent living and then they
went to assisted living andthen maybe memory care, maybe
(07:31):
skilled, and it was a verylinear line.
Well, all that's compressed nowbecause the baby boomers are
not settling for the traditionalhousing that their moms and
dads settled for.
So now we have people moving inyounger, for lifestyle and 55
plus even independent living,whose goal is successfully age
and never have to move out ofthat environment into assisted
(07:51):
living.
They want to age in place, theyknow that resources are
available for innovation to keepthem there, using innovation in
the way AI is going to changethe world and they want more
resort type environments, moreconnection with one another.
We have explosion, though, ofpeople that are living longer as
well, and, statistically,everybody over 85, one in two
(08:15):
has dementia, according to theAlzheimer's Association, and one
in three has Alzheimer's, andmost of the folks we know are
moving into assisted living.
They are needing they havememory loss and they need care,
and they're declining withcomorbidities and they need an
environment where they can agesafely and securely and have
some successful aging with hopeof family reconciliation as they
(08:39):
get going into the sunset oftheir life and passing on.
And it's a very different modeland all these things are
becoming very compressed astechnology allows us to age in
place.
And third, I would say thatinvestors that are looking for a
opportunity to be part of avery strategic shift.
(09:00):
We know that because of thechanges in regulations, with
legislatures allowing people toage longer in assisted living
with a primary goal of nothaving their beneficiaries and,
quite frankly, their loved onesgo to skilled nursing, the
skilled nursing model is goingaway.
We would rather our loved onesage longer and stay in assisted
(09:25):
living, which means regulationsare having to change slightly.
A health care model is emergingand not only that, but CMS is
now encouraging people to age inplace and help prevent episodic
health care events.
I mean, the traditional modelwas we don't really do a whole
(09:47):
lot until someone has an event.
They go to the emergency room,they're admitted, they stay a
week in the hospital, spend$30,000.
We get them back to baselineand then they go home again.
And the new model that'semerging is if we can monitor
the residents through theirvital signs or through their
(10:07):
therapeutic management orthrough telehealth, and, as
machine learning helps uspredict residents decline, these
things, with home health andother things we can have in the
assisted living community willhelp us predict and prevent an
episodic healthcare event, thussaving Medicare money and us
(10:30):
participating ultimately in someof the reimbursement that
they're going to reward us,because they would rather pay to
keep us out of the hospitalthan expensive hospital
adventures.
So all these changes offer agreat opportunity for investors
that want to come into the spacethat has a very strong long
model of good returns butshifting slightly to a
(10:53):
healthcare model, and those thatare prepared and those that are
equipped will have greatopportunity to have to be part
of something that there'll bemore demand than there probably
will be housing in the next fewyears.
John.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So you bring up a great point as it relates to
change, and so the model is onthe verge of changing.
Wellness versus health care,successful aging versus managing
decline currently within the ALIL memory care communities that
(11:32):
enhance resident life andreally enhance their well-being.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, that's a great question, John.
I think it is so interesting towatch our industry and I think
human nature and I includemyself in all this.
We seem to want to get in oneditch or the other and the goal
(11:59):
is to be moderate.
Let all things be done inmoderation to hit that middle
stride.
And I remember 14 years ago, asthe internet, ipads, computers
were becoming more prevalent, wewere having discussions at some
of the variety of the tradeassociations of is this a trend?
Should we jump on this wave wesee coming in, or should we not?
And the conventional wisdom wasno, we're not going to get
(12:21):
involved in this, becauseseniors don't like tech and
innovation.
They will never use these iPads.
It's expensive to put Wi-Fi inour buildings.
And why do it?
Our residents just want to becomfortable three meals a day, a
couple of snacks and goodactivities, and that was a great
model, I guess, for the pensiongeneration.
But wow, did things change?
And the folks that were forwardlooking enough to say you know
(12:44):
what?
I think we need to make achange here, and they begin to
bring in, brought in thetechnology, and begin to put in
Wi-Fi, campus-wide Wi-Fi, thingslike RFID door locks or easy
ingress and egress of the doorswith a card, just like hotels.
Campus-wide Wi-Fi that anybodycould log into and have good
(13:06):
bandwidth and download and getto the internet access control
around the building to secure it, even real-time location
services so we know where ourresidents are at.
Being able to put digitalsignage in to broadcast what
we're doing in our communities,to get credit for it and
reassure the caregivers and theloved ones mom's having a great
experience here, loved ones,mom's having a great experience
(13:27):
here.
Maybe music throughout, evenaromatherapy, all affects the
five physical senses.
I like to call it conciergesensory design, because all
these things contribute to ourbiochemistry.
They release chemicals in usthat make us feel good in a lot
of different ways.
And as these things enteredinto the communities, we changed
(13:51):
the climate and the atmosphereof what was going into senior
housing and people saw the valueof it.
I think people said, look, wegot to get into this because
everyone else is in it likes towait.
I kind of like to see the wavecoming in, john.
If I see the wave coming, Ireally like to get on it and
(14:18):
ride it.
I kind of like to own it andsay we participated in bringing
it.
I'm more that guy than the guywaiting on the beach for the
wave to hit.
And now we've got a pool ofwater and then we're all jumping
in.
But seeing around 2014, 2015,the thought thinking was oh,
this is the way to go.
Innovations come into the spaceand we're going to put
everything we can in thebuildings.
And so people brought in goodstuff.
(14:39):
People brought in sensors todocument movement, and we've got
cameras to document when aperson falls and look back on it
.
We have devices that will talkto you, alexa.
We have all different types oftechnology in the building and
we almost were just overwhelmedwith the technology that came in
the buildings and maybe aheadof the time, because not every
(15:03):
senior can embrace it.
Everybody's different.
And so where I see a realsystemic shift, if you will, of
what we need to do is I would,rather than spending a lot of
money on technology and bringanything out over time brings
tremendous value to the investorthat's holding and wants a
(15:35):
building that is timeless, orfor a person that wants to build
a building and have itpositioned in the next few years
for someone to come in andpurchase that building at a good
multiplier, and someone has agreat asset and they can then
grow as the technology changes.
And what I'm speakingspecifically of and I don't want
to digress too much here butI'm talking about managed Wi-Fi.
(15:58):
Quite frankly, I know folks whocome into the space and really
excited that they're bringingguest Wi-Fi in, that it's
campus-wide.
But I've tried to log onsometimes, john, and it's a
download of two megabytes.
I can't even it won't download.
Too many people are on it.
But if we could put in andinvest the rather than buying a
(16:18):
lot of devices, invest thedollars in managed Wi-Fi in a
building.
Now I can put managed Wi-Fi inthe building and every one of my
residents that comes in canhave their own firewalled Wi-Fi
access and I can give them 50megs of download and I can even
make it membership-based.
(16:38):
If I'm an active adult, if I'min independent living, I could
provide a standard gold packageand give you 50 megs of download
and 130 channels and maybeaccess to your community during
the day.
But if you want the platinummembership, it's $395 more.
Maybe it's 100 megs of downloadand maybe it's 260 channels.
(17:00):
You have 24-hour access.
Membership-based is another wayof changing the way the world
we're in.
But once you have managed Wi-Fi, then you can help someone
successfully age John, evensomeone moving into a 55 plus or
an independent living.
I'll give you this one quickexample and I'll pause and move
on.
But a person moving into 55plus and all of a sudden has a
(17:22):
need for med management Like Ican't keep up with my meds and
the daughter, the son's theresaying we got to move Todd out
and he's got to go to AL wherethey provide medication Done
correctly, I could be partneredwith a pharmacy and say, hey,
let me get John from thepharmacy down the road.
He partners with us.
I want to have a conversationwith him.
And John could speak with themand say I'm going to put this
(17:45):
great box on your wall in yourroom.
It's tied to your managed Wi-Fi.
We're going to package yourmedicine for about $1,000 a
month.
It will drop your meds, justlike Wemo turns the lights on
three times a day and all youhave to take it Todd, and you
don't need to move out of here.
And then, when I do the math,John and I'm doing $1,000 for my
(18:06):
meds.
That's a lot of money, but arent and a 55 plus plus the
$1,000 meds is still $2,000 thanassisted living, and that gives
me an opportunity to age inplace and not go to assisted
living until I have to.
And there'll be a day, if I livelong enough, I'll want to go
there, but in the meantime, theshift is let's help our
(18:27):
residents age successfully.
Let's help our residents agewith confidence.
And I love this book I readyears ago.
It talks about we want to livelong and die short.
We don't want to live short anddie long.
And some of the older modelsit's like 65, 70, someone gets
(18:48):
diabetes, they get COPD, theyhave congestive heart failure
and they spend the next 20 yearsdying.
We want to live robust, vibrantlives because we have the right
programming in the buildings,we have the right technology so
that you know we're doing realwell.
We live into our 80s and maybe Iget ran over by the bus and I'm
gone and when the innovation,the technology, the health care,
(19:10):
all has to combine to give themthe opportunity not just to be
maintained and die but to agewell and age successfully.
And let's slow this agingprocess down as much as we can
for a new generation of seniors.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
That's great.
I mean the bottom line babyboomers want to live a longer
life that is disease free andwhere they can really have a
purpose in their lives.
So if I were an investor, adeveloper, and I'm going to
develop my first facility and Icame to you, todd, and said, hey
(19:46):
, todd, you've got a lot ofexperience on the development
side, operational side.
Todd and said, hey, todd,you've got a lot of experience
on the development side,operational side, all aspects of
senior housing what would youtell them If you were also part
of that investment group?
How would you spell out exactlywhat you would do today to be
prepared for the future babyboomers to come into the
marketplace?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Well, I'm going to assume, John, that when I'm
working with this investmentgroup it's like someone like you
.
So I already know that you havea tremendous building that has
great flows for the residents,it has tremendous common area
space, it has lots of lightingand all the things we know from
a building real estatestandpoint.
We need to successfully age age.
(20:31):
Not everybody understands that,but folks that have done the
research understand that thereare certain things that can be
done in a building that reallyenhance the experience.
The building can make a bigdifference and I like to call
that progressive engineeredenvironments where we have large
hallways.
We have air turning over in thebuilding frequently, you know,
to mitigate pathogens in the air.
We have a lot of lighting thatcreates vitamin K and helps with
(20:55):
winter depression.
Quite frankly, because thelights are coming in, there's a
lot of safe places to walk tocreate movement, because we know
steps.
We know people that walk everyday.
Just 20 minutes twice a week isalmost equivalent to an SSRI
antidepressant that a doctormight prescribe for you.
So why don't we walk?
(21:15):
And we can monitor it and wehave walking clubs.
So I'm going to assume ourbuilding looks like that.
The second thing I want theinvestors to help me with and
let me to deploy is I want tobring in a successful aging
platform.
I want to be able to bring insomething that takes all things
(21:36):
into consideration of ourresidents, to give them the best
opportunity to succeed.
And if you look at the marketright now, john and I appreciate
what we've done, but mostpeople, even at their websites,
what they're advertising thatthey do are the regulations
Three meals, two snacks, 24-hourwatchful oversight, know the
general condition of theresident and get help when they
(21:58):
need it and a secure and safeplace for the resident.
I mean, that's what the lawrequires and I appreciate them
as amenities that we're focusingon.
But there needs to be awellness plan, not just
oversight.
There needs to be a wellnessplan that can give us the very
best opportunity to achievesuccessful aging.
(22:18):
So I'd want a plan that couldhelp me monitor and give the
potential for a resident tosleep well so they're getting
their deep, their REM sleep,their light sleep.
Sleep contributes to mood,sleep overcomes depression and
sleep affects our biochemistry.
Then we want to program in placefor hydration.
(22:40):
The number one reason for aresident leaving an assisted
living and ended up in anemergency room is they're
dehydrated.
Dehydration can lead to UTI.
Dehydrated dehydration can leadto uti urinary tract infection
which leads to exacerbateddementia, which looks like it's
memory loss or dementia,long-term dementia, and that's
what the staff usually jumps tothe conclusion, but it's short
(23:03):
term with a uti.
But can we avoid it all?
Together with a hydrationprogram which might be as simple
as serving a glass of water atall, the residents' meal, just
not their beverage of choice.
I want software that will helpverify the delivery of
medication and, with AI comingand maybe we talk about this I
(23:24):
want software that's going tocontinually analyze my
residents' mood and behavior,their vital signs and let me
know before they decline so Ican intervene, because I do not
want an episodic healthcareevent and them having to go to
the hospital.
I want to track movementthrough really cool looking
(23:44):
watches or sensors because wehave to keep the residents
moving.
I mean, harvard Health did astudy and showed that early
onset dementia at 55 and 60years of age was reversed when
the client started walking.
Because they were verysedentary, because walking
(24:04):
created blood flow to thefrontal lobe cortex.
It created more blood flow thathelped feed the brain.
That reduced the dementia.
I want to set goals for themand again, this is part of that
concierge sensory design.
Not just put digital signage inthe building for the sake of.
Oh, we're going to give themannouncements and the hotel has
(24:25):
it, and isn't it cool?
Which is what I hear from manydevelopers.
But no, we're putting indigital signage because
systematically andprogrammatically, we're going to
take pictures and images of theresidents participating in
events and singing with BarryMantle or Neil Diamond, of
having their birthday celebrated, being in the walking club,
because I want credit for it.
(24:47):
And when my families come inand maybe mom doesn't remember
last night when Neil Diamondsang Sweet Caroline to them,
they already forgot the familycan see it and when they see it
they go wow, this is awesome.
And it helps cast thoseimaginations down in the
family's mind when mom maybe isnot totally accurate of what
she's saying.
(25:07):
And they know this is the verybest place for mom.
Brain, healthy nutrition I'm notgoing to make them give up
their hot dogs and hamburgers,but I think the new generation
is understanding health and weknow there are foods that can
feed our brain.
Health.
And then positive psychology.
The entire environment has tohelp the senior have positive
(25:30):
psychology, an elevated mood,just broadcasting on digital
signage that you're going tohave the mariachi band there for
Cinco de Mayo and thenannouncing it every day, even if
they're like, oh, I'm justtired of hearing about this.
I mean that is setting goals,that is giving our loved ones
(25:56):
goals of something that's goingto happen.
And when goals are in play, theneuroscience shows that
dopamine is released in theirbodies.
With no goals, no dopamine,they may have the serotonin and
they may be chill, but you and I, you know, and I know you, john
, the minute you're finishedwith goal one, you already got
another goal, and I figured youprobably, once you achieve the
goal, you're like you know, Iwant to do more, you want to be
(26:19):
on the next thing because ofthose happy chemicals that drive
you and give you quality oflife.
So these are some of the things.
A successful aging, a wellnessprogram, must live in the
community so that the residentsare attracted to it, they
participate, that and we givethem an opportunity to age well.
That's one thing that I wouldlike to do.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, that's fantastic, and you know, what's
interesting is that, you know,here I am at my age and I've
embraced not only technology,but I've embraced a ring on my
finger that tracks my sleep.
(27:01):
It gives me scores.
About a month ago it told me,two days before I got sick, that
I was going to get sick becausemy body temperature went up.
Then I was introduced byanother owner operator in the
senior housing space, who alsobelieves in wellness, to a
(27:21):
company called Viome, v-i-o-m-e,and Viome takes your blood, it
takes your fecal matter and ittakes your saliva.
And one thing I didn'tunderstand is that your gut, it
has enzymes and everything else,and if your mouth is not
healthy, then that could affectyour health.
(27:42):
I didn't know that and so, thankGod, my test came back that I
had a healthy mouth.
But basically, when they didthis testing, they actually
formulated a plan for me and aplan to take a very specialized
for my body probiotics andprebiotics.
It showed me exactly the foods Ihave to stay away from.
(28:04):
It told me the foods I shouldbe eating and it told me the
foods that I should moderate andnot eat as much as I used to.
And then it gave me a vitaminmixture that was specific for my
body, and I believe that thisis the future of wellness within
senior housing, where we bringsomeone in as resident and
(28:27):
they're tested and then the careis formulated based on them
alone.
I don't know how much thatwould cost, I don't know whether
or not that is feasible whenpeople are coming and going, but
is there anything you canaddress on that side, because we
have artificial intelligencecoming along that is speeding up
(28:48):
the ability to create drugsmuch quicker than in the past.
So how is AI, personalizedmedicine, values-based health
care going to affect theexperience of our populations
that are living in our housingthe experience of our
populations that are living inour housing.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
John, I am convinced that machine learning,
artificial intelligence, is theanswer to the industry woes as
they exist before, and industrywoes specifically defined as how
do I keep residents longer inmy communities rather than
shorter because they're?
How do I have less turnover inmy units?
How can I have a reputation ofwellness versus monitoring
(29:37):
decline?
I mean, it's the difference.
I mean we're used to managingdecline and we want to now shift
to be discerning, predictive,proactive and prescriptive is
everything you just said, withjust one element.
So artificial intelligenceright now is multiplying every
(29:59):
eight months and, even thoughit's a little clunky right now,
what really is going to put thison?
This will be no different thanprocessing speed that doubled
every eight months and we'redoing something with the iPhone
now that couldn't be done with amainframe IBM computer that
took, you know, two rooms up,affordable because Medicare's
(30:24):
purposeful shift into agingsuccessfully preemptive care to
reduce cost.
So what I see on the horizonand I really have a passion for
the ownership groups out therethat have three or less
buildings I only say thatbecause that's 75% of our senior
(30:46):
housing industry, john becausethey are trying to figure out a
way, how they make it, and thebig guys kind of have deep
pockets and there's maybe not asconcerned, but how do they make
it?
And I believe all that everyonecan play in the space stay in
the space by incorporating AI.
So let me be more definitive onthat.
(31:07):
Algorithms are now makingalgorithms and the advantage
that AI has is so far beyond usand we should embrace it.
Even three years ago, when mywife said maybe we should get a
self-driving car, I was like noway, I don't trust machines.
I trust me because I have along time on this planet and
(31:29):
I've been involved in a lot oftraffic and I think I can drive
better.
But how short-sighted of me.
A car that learned something byhaving an accident or
identifying the road conditionor traffic patterns, and maybe
it has an accident.
That information is going tothe mothership and every baby
born that's a self-driving caris going to download what that
(31:52):
mothership knows.
That's the beauty of algorithms.
And so, as we move forward,machines are going to be able to
do the things, john, that ourstaff cannot do.
Be able to do the things, john,that our staff cannot do or our
staff doesn't want to do, or wedon't have the labor dollars in
(32:16):
the budget for the staff to doit and our staffs don't want to
be looking at data analytics andgraphs.
They don't have time.
That's not what they'redesigned to do.
They want to love and care forthe resident so as our residents
move in now, so we havesolutions.
I mean, obviously I love mysolution.
My solution is predictive ofthe resident's mood and behavior
, forms a baseline and when itchanges it alerts that the
(32:37):
resident is declining.
So the resident caregiver cannow address it and we provide a
playbook.
If you add remote patientmonitoring, like we're now
monitoring our.
So I use Withings at the househere.
So it monitors my sleep with apad Every morning.
It tells me my time in REM, mytime in deep and my time in
(32:58):
light.
How many times am I up, was Isnoring and what's my sleep
score?
Withings tells me my steps fromApple.
How many steps did I walk?
My scale is telling me myvascular age based on electrical
current going through my bodywhen I step on the scale.
It's got a six channel ECGthat's telling me how my heart
(33:20):
rate is doing.
It's telling me my bodysegmental isn't right.
It's telling me my BMIResidents can have their blood
pressure checked, we can checktheir saturation, we can check
their temperature and all thiscan.
Now you know and again I'mtrying to you know you share
this with the industry and say,oh well, I tried it.
(33:41):
They tried it three years ago,it didn't work, it's complicated
, we couldn't set it up.
But I'm telling you, thetechnology is so changing that
these devices come cellular.
Now You've got to have abuilding that will promote
cellular signal, which hasanother story, but they just can
turn on and they'll talk tocellular.
But that data can be gatheredand it can go to a doctor and
(34:02):
the doctor can bill for it.
And can be gathered and it cango to a doctor and the doctor
can bill for it.
And then the doctor can puteyes on the resident in the
building clinically and if mysoftware tells you the
resident's at risk, I can giveit to the rehab, the in-house
rehab that you designed the roomfor.
That's your rehab and yourbuilding for your residents and
they can admit the patientresident to rehab.
(34:24):
And now they have clinicaloversight and their folks are in
your building and they'reteaming with you and they can be
there, because you just don'thave 10% in rehab, you've got
40% and then you can.
They can monitor whether yourresidents are falling or not,
and that's remote therapeuticmanagement.
The doctor can bill for that.
Whether they're having a declineor not, then if they're testing
(34:52):
with your product here, which Iwant to learn about, and the
families can pay for that, thenwe can give them a specialized
diet.
We are equipping them with suchsolutions that we never came
close to having.
And even though we haven'tfigured aging out yet, we can
age success.
We all know this.
My life changed when I startedwalking.
I mean, it just changed mylearning, even though I was
(35:13):
older, just exponentiallychanges the more I walk.
But anyway, these are thethings that if we can systemize
this, you can put it in yourbuilding and basically be ready
and offered value-based care.
That's where we're going and Iwould say the only thing to
remember is these strategiestake a system programmatically,
(35:36):
but it probably does take havingthe right technology in the
building.
You can't build a blockbuilding not have a distributed
antenna system and then try tohave telehealth, because your
cellular won't work.
But last thing I'll say aboutthis John, a few years ago,
before the pandemic, people wereshying away from telehealth
(35:57):
because there were very strictrequirements for Medicare in
order for that to happen.
You had to pay dollars to bewith a telehealth company, to
have a certain protocol, toprovide a firewall and meet
HIPAA requirements.
Well, pandemic hit and changedall that.
Cms said I don't care if youget on an iPhone with your
doctor on FaceTime, if you can,he can bill for the telehealth
(36:18):
and you can have him.
That is your visit.
Again, this is another strategyto keep our residents from
having to go out visit thedoctor.
Usually, if they go out of thehospital and return, it takes
them a while to get back in theswing of things if they return.
So all these solutions, no onehas systemized this yet, john.
No one has created a model.
We're still kind of in the oh,we're going to create a
(36:40):
hospitality model and I'm gladof that.
But this is what the residentsneed.
They need wellness becauseotherwise they'll be in a
beautiful building declining andwe won't be able to do anything
about it.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Well, you bring up a great point as it relates to
values-based care, and I didn'tknow what this meant until I got
a phone call from a doctor andhis name was Gordon Chen and he
and his brother started acompany called Chen Med after
going through with their fatherFather got cancer, I believe and
(37:13):
having even, as doctors, havingto go through the health care
system, and what they?
What they figured out is, ifthey stay close with love and
compassion, close to theirpatients, meaning monitoring on
a daily basis, they actuallyreduced type 2 diabetes.
They were able to make surethat they checked up on
(37:35):
individuals who may have hadheart issues and whether or not
they're taking their meds.
What I'm getting to is what youexactly said is how do we stay
on top of the daily lives andhealth and wellness of our
residents?
And ChenMed?
They did it extremely well.
They have a book out therecalled the Calling and it
(37:57):
describes this model and theirvision, when Gordon was speaking
with me, is how do they bringthat same model that has been
proven extremely successful bytheir company and a number of
other companies?
How do they bring thatvalues-based model into senior
housing?
Because they believe that ifyou do do that, you're going to
(38:18):
have a mixture of healthcare andliving, which then brings about
wellness and everything youspoke about in regards to your
spirit, your mind, your body,creating a wonderful life within
those communities.
So do you want to riff on thatany more?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, just a little bit, John.
I would say that the componentsare already available for that
owner-operator to bring it inand get ready, because it's
connecting with the third-partyhealthcare continuum
infrastructure that alwaysexists.
It's partnering with them.
You know, it's having oneposition, one person in the
community, whoever that is,meeting with these folks,
(39:00):
soliciting their participationin the community and giving them
business in exchange for thembecoming real partners, adopting
the culture that you expect inyour building and partnering
with the right people andcommitting to them, as long as
they are replicating thatenvironment of life, that you're
going to continue using them.
(39:21):
It's a win-win for everybody.
And now you're doing what you dobest with an assisted living
license or no license, which is,you know, the meals, the
activities, the engagement, therobust environment.
That's what you know.
The real estate, that's whatwe're doing.
But then we have a robust rehabteam taking care of the rest.
(39:41):
You've got doc physician groupsthat are overseeing the
clinical care.
You have soliciting ministry tocome into the building.
You're soliciting pharmacy.
You're taking subject matterexperts making members of your
team and producing a goodquality product for your
residents to age in place.
So it's not that you have tocreate it.
I personally don't want to getin those businesses and I don't
(40:04):
know many people that get inthem, that are in the assisted
living space that are successful.
Let's partner with them andhelp our residents age longer
and stay in pace longer anddrive value for investors on the
real estate side.
That's what I want to do.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
That's a great, great mission, and so is there any
question?
I haven't asked you that.
I should have asked you thatyou'd want to talk about.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yeah, the only.
Thing.
I think, I may have mentionedthis, but I want to maybe
summarize here on AI, because Iknow there's a lot of confusion
in the market on AI.
You know what we've had in thepast has been fine.
I mean, we've had systems thatcollect data data repositories,
if you will and maybe they'regood at taking that data and
(40:52):
putting it on a dashboard so youcan look at it.
Maybe they're good atcollecting it easy, I don't know
.
I think most systems needdisruption.
They're old interfaces and Ithink we need a modern version.
So I call that dataintelligence, not AI.
They call it AI, but real AI ismachines in the background,
(41:15):
algorithms looking at the data.
So we're not having to look atit on a dashboard.
We can, but it's looking at.
Is the resident declining?
Is their mood and behaviorchanging?
Oh, it's changed for the lasttwo weeks at 2 pm and they're
not coming out of their room andthere may be and this is a
(41:38):
memory care resident, there maybe a sundowning syndrome here,
or wow, we've got a greatresident here.
Except when caregiver D is inthe room, their mood and
behavior goes way down.
What's going on there?
Well, could be a trainingsession, or maybe caregiver D
needs to not be in the room, but, Ms Jones, they just don't get
along.
But we need the machines toanalyze this data and then
(42:02):
everything needs to gopredictive, so that the machines
are doing the work.
We're providing care, but nowit's predicting the residents
that are declining.
It's predicting there might bean episodic healthcare event.
You're not having to go in andlook at the data in your nurse
to figure it out, becausethey're not looking at charts,
they're not looking at X Y axis,they don't understand the data,
(42:22):
they don't have time for it.
So AI will replace things thatwe don't want to do, and when I
go into our communities, Iusually vacuum.
It's a great example to setthat.
I'd be willing to do that.
A lot of people don't want tovacuum, but there are robots
that will vacuum at nightsilently, that know the exact
pattern of the common areas.
Let the robots do it and thenhire the people that want to
(42:43):
love and care for the resident.
So I think it's really importantthat we understand that AI is
going to change the world,probably like no other thing
introduced to us, and I love howthe CBO, the Chief Business
Officer, Growth Officer atGoogle, said you know, 15 years
from now.
At this rate, we're going to beon an island and he said one or
(43:04):
two things are going to behappening.
John, we're going to beenjoying our pina coladas and
the machines are going to bedoing all the work.
They're going to be enjoyinglife with everyone else because
the machines are just running.
You know the planet and all isgood.
Or, if we don't ethically buildit right, we'll be hiding from
the machines.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
But one way or the other it's coming, so get ready.
I heard a quote from Elon Musk.
He basically said in the futurethere is going to be universal
income, but it is going to be avery high income.
And that was great to hearbecause, truly, we are on the
verge of one of the greatestcompute eras in our lifetimes
(43:46):
and unbelievable what's going tohappen over the next five years
.
So I'll give you a littletidbit here.
Okay, they're already reversingaging in mice and they're
starting to test chimpanzeesusing various modalities at the
molecular level, along withspecific drugs.
So you and I are sitting hereon a video speaking and you can
(44:08):
see that how I look today couldbe how I look at 120 years old
Could be we never know, but it'schanging that quickly.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Well, you know, what that tells us is that we have to
be ready for this changebecause it's coming, and our
senior housing products mustreflect what that might look
like when the change comes, toprovide these environments of
life rather than managingdecline.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Amen.
I've been preaching that forthe last six years.
I go back to the baby boomers.
They always wanted to live incommunes, right?
So here comes baby boomers.
We're going to give you thecompound you always wanted.
So, todd, how do people get ahold of you if they wanted to
reach out to you and speak more?
Speaker 1 (44:53):
I've got it all up at LinkedIn.
They can go to Todd Petty atLinkedIn and my email address
there, my telephone number'sthere and I love to post, you
know, at LinkedIn.
I try to bring value to theaudience and make a difference.
They can certainly get hold ofme there and I'd love to have a
conversation with them.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah, it's been a pleasure, Todd, and Todd is
spelled T-O-D.
I've been following Todd sincea very you know for a while I
think ever since six years, forsix years or so and I just sat
there and said Todd just putsout really great information on
LinkedIn and I always read it.
I always just I have lovedwatching what you've done and
(45:33):
was kind of, let's say, a littlejealous that you went over to
Lloyd Jones and I didn't get youor it wasn't timing to reach
out and bring you on board hereat Haven.
But I appreciate you being areal great thought leader in the
industry.
I've enjoyed our conversationtoday and look forward to
continuing collaboration betweenyou and I as we move into the
(45:56):
next 10 years in this space.
And so thanks again and have agreat day, todd.
Thank you, john.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Appreciate the opportunity of the show,
appreciate all that you're doingto senior out in the Todd.
Thank you, John.
Appreciate the opportunity ofthe show.
Appreciate all that you'redoing to senior out in the space
.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Thank, you See ya.
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